z , 2011 weli zgamodis oTxSabaTobiT z ivaniSvili: `ar ...dspace.nplg.gov.ge/bitstream/1234/118650/1/Saerto_Gazeti_2011_N44.pdf · C M Y K #44 (173)z9-115.XI, 2011 weli zgamodis oTxSabaTobiT

C M Y K

#44 (173) 9-115.XI, 2011 weli gamodis oTxSabaTobiT www.saertogazeti.net; e-mail: [email protected] fasi 1 lari

es interviu biZina ivaniSvilis oponentebs erTxel da samudamod daukargavs usafuZvlo

braldebebis da samarcxvino Woraobis xasiaTs

àr megona, rom miliarderi gavxdebodi~

biZina ivaniSvili:

`bednieri var, rom sufTa warsuli maqvs da garwmunebT, xelisuflebis ideologebs TavianTi mcdelobani

sikeTes ver moutans. mudmivad iseT gvarebs atrialeben, romelic cnobili araa saqarTvelos mosaxleobisT-

vis. mudmivad cdiloben, xalxs eWvi gauCinon Cemze.

erTaderT interviuSi, romelic gazeT `vedomosts~ miveci, yvela es gvaria dasaxelebuli da pasuxic iqvea ga-

cemuli. es ambavi karga xania warsuls Cahbarda. Jurnalistebma maSin verc erTi Savi xazi ver mipoves. erTi Tve ar

beWdavdnen Cems intervius. ver warmoedginaT, rom ruseTSi SeiZleboda aseTi kaci yofiliyo, Tanac qarTuli gva-

riT. rogorc aq ar vCndebodi, ufro metad ar vCandi ruseTSi. didxans elodnen Cem gamoCenas, amis Semdgom yvela

sainformacio saSualebam gaaSuqa es interviu, grami eWvic ki aravis Seutania Cems naTqvamSi, radgan interviuSi

imdenad gulwrfelad maqvs pasuxebi gacemuli, eWvis natamalic ki ar rCeboda.~

biZina ivaniSvilis pirveli interviu,

romelic 2005 wels

gazeT `vedomostSi~ daibeWda.

intervius sruli teqsti

qarTul enaze qveyndeba pirvelad.

saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.2

gazeTi xelmZRvanelobs Tavisufali presis principiT.SesaZloa, avtoris pozicia ar eTanxmebodes redaqciis azrs.informaciis sizusteze pasuxismgebelia avtori. gasaCivrebaSesaZlebelia masalis gamoqveynebidan erTi kviris vadaSi.

Semosuli masalebi avtorebs ar ubrundeba.aamm nniiSSnniiTT aaRRnniiSSnnuulliiaa ssaarreekkllaammoo mmaassaalleebbii..

`saerTo gazeTi~mmTTaavvaarrii rreeddaaqqttoorrii:: vvaaxxttaanngg xxaarrCCiillaavvaa

gamomcemeli: Sps sagamomcemlo centri `saerTo sityva~

mmiiss:: TTbbiilliissii,, aaRRmmaaSSeenneebblliiss 116644;;

tteell..:: 22 1144 4400 1199;; 22 3344 2288 9977

rreeggiissttrraacciiiiss ##220022337755334499

redaqtoris sveti

or kviraSi

axali samoqa-

laqo moZrao-

ba dafuZndeba,

Tumca es moZ-

raoba faqtob-

rivad ukve da-

f u Z n e b u l i a

da, Tamamad Se-

iZleba iTqvas,

misi damfuZne-

beli, pirvel

yovlisa, qarT-

veli xalxia.

bevri saxalxo moZraoba gvi-

naxavs, Tumca saxelis miuxeda-

vad, am moZraobebs moZraoba

uWirdaT da saxeli saxalxoc

ise markis asawevad hqondaT

miwebebuli, Torem iq xalxi

aravis unaxavs.

samoqalaqo moZraoba `qar-

Tuli ocneba~ albaT is erTa-

derTi bednieri gamonaklisi

iqneba qarTul sinamdvileSi,

romelic uamrav adamians gaa-

erTianebs erTi droSis qveS da

safuZvels daudebs samoqala-

qo sazogadoebis Camoyalibe-

bas saqarTveloSi.

`zogi Wiri margebeliao~,

naTqvamia.

`Wiri~, romlis gamoc biZina

ivaniSvils saqarTvelos moqa-

laqeoba Seuwyvites, gaxda imis

winapiroba, rom ver Seiqmna ki-

dev erTi axali politikuri

organizacia, samagierod da-

fuZnda samoqalaqo moZraoba,

rac mocemul situaciaSi gaci-

lebiT efeqturi da masStabu-

ri SeiZleba aRmoCndes, vidre

politikuri partia.

darwmunebuli var, `qarTu-

li ocneba~ gaxdeba yvelaze

mravalricxovani, yvelaze mo-

biluri da organizebuli Za-

la, romelic arsebul realo-

bas ukeTesobisken Secvlis da

sxvadasxva wvril-wvril par-

tiul Tu arasamTavrobo orga-

nizaciebSi daqsaqsul da da-

fantul qarTvel xalxs erT

monoliTur sxeulad Sekravs.

maS ase, asparezze gamodis

misi udidebulesoba qarTveli

xalxi, rac imas niSnavs, rom

droa viRac-viRaceebma Cemod-

nebis Calageba daiwyon...

vaxtang xarCilava

stummrrebi - zaza firaliSvili (fi-

losofosi); lela iakobaSvili (kul-

turologi)

wammyvani - nino ffirrcxalava

ukanasknel pperriodSi sazogadoeba, mmiuxe-

davad immisa, rromm dayoffilia gansxvavebuli

mmosazrrebebis da orrientaciebis jguffebad, rra-

Rac errTi mmTlianis garrSemmo gaerrTianebis

surrvils gammoTqqvamms...

rrammdenad da rrogorr mmoaxerrxa qqarrTulmma

sazogadoebamm sammoqqalaqqo sazogadoebad Ca-

mmoylibebis fforrmmirreba mmas Semmdeg, rrac

mmtkivneulad ganicada yvela is rrefforrmma ,

rrommelic gammowveulia saorrientacio veqqto-

rrebis cvlilebiT; Cveni qqveynisTvis Crrdi-

loeTidan dasavleTisaken Sebrruneba sak-

mmaod mmtkivneuli aRmmoCnda.

wamyvani:- qarTuli sazogadoeba 20

welia yalibdeba, garkveuli etapebi gaiara,

Tumca saboloo formirebisaTvis, rasac sa-

moqalaqo sazogadoeba hqvia, albaT Zalian

bevria gasavleli... batono zaza, rogor gai-

go Cveulebrivma rigiTma qarTvelma demokra-

tia?

zaza firaliSvili - rom giTxraT,

rom Cven gvesmis, Tu ra aris demokratia,

Sors viqnebi simarTlisagan! es iseTi Tvise-

baa, romelsac mopoveba sWirdeba da romelic

erTxel mopovebis Semdeg samudamod geqneba!

amitom saubari, rom Cven raRac momentidan

demokratiulebi varT an viqnebiT, ar SeiZ-

leba! misi mopoveba sakmarisad rTuli gax-

lavT; is seroizul istoriul praqtikas

moiTxovs; moiTxovs Tanaarsebobisa da Tanam-

Sromlobis kulturis SemuSavebas sazoga-

doebaSi, rac Cven gvaklia!

lela iakobiSvili - TavisTavad, sa-

dac demokratia daibada saberZneTSi, iq po-

lisebis kultura ukve arsebobda! es Tavis-

Tavad, qalaquri cxovrebis kulturaa... misi

meore versia ukve evropaSi ganxorcielda,

sadac qalaqebi Sedga, rogorc industriul-

kulturuli centrebi! da adamianebi Tavisi

interaqciebiT qalaquri komunikaciebis sqe-

maSi iyo CarTuli! qalaqs hqonda erTiani in-

formaciuli veli, romelic struqturirde-

boda Tavisi samarTliT, urTierTobebis

formatebiT, arqiteqturiT, socialuri fe-

nebiT da a. S.

ai, es epoqa qarTvelebs ar gagvivlia! ase

vTqvaT, Cven qalaqSi Camogvasaxles, indust-

rias gvaziares... qalaqi Tavisi topologiu-

ri sivrciT, Sinagani dinamizmiT, struqtu-

riT, kulturis garsiT, es evropisTvisac

gviani Sua saukuneebis Semdeg daiwyo, bur-

Juaziis dabadebis Semdeg! burJuazia CvenTan

dRes ibadeba. amitom, sworad gamigeT, saidan,

rogor SemiZlia samoqalaqo interaqciebSi

CaverTo, rodesac me rom moqalaqe gavmxda-

riyavi, amis moZalade bolSevizmi iyo! ami-

tom gardatexis asaki am mimarTulebiT Cven

ar gagvivlia! dResac postindustriul xana-

Si procesebi Zaladobrivi mgonia...

dasavleTSi SeimCneva deurbanizaciis

swrafi tempi, xolo saqarTvelos centra-

lur qalaqebSi urbanizaciis stiqiuri pro-

cesia! anu is socialuri sivrceebi, romle-

bic Tavis droze vaWrobas mohyva evropaSi,

Cvens Tvalwin daiwyo saqarTveloSi. aq jer-

jerobiT eliavasa da lilos bazroba aris

e.w. burJuaziuli interaqcia!

- klasikuri gagebiT, samoqalaqo sazoga-

doeba Tavis TavSi moiazrebs politikur

partiebs, arasamTavrobo seqtors da medias!

b-nno zaza, ramdenad erTnairad viTardeba es

sami sfero bolo 20 wlis ganmavlobaSi da

ramdenad SeaqvT sakuTari wvlili demokra-

tiuli procesis ganviTarebaSi?

zaza firaliSvili _ samwuxaroa,

magram arasamTavrobo seqtori garkveulwi-

lad iqca biznesad. unda airCion is lingvis-

tika, romliTac unda isaubron saerTaSori-

so donorebTan da Semdeg rom moaxdinon

Targmani rigiTi moqalaqis enaze, es ar

aRelvebT da arc ainteresebT! saerTaSoriso

donors ar esmis, rom kulturas Tavisi

metyveleba, lingvistika aqvs da garkveuli

kvlevebi, mignebebi Tu WeSmaritebebis pro-

duqtebi masTan misTvis gasageb enaze unda

iqnes mitanili, raTa maTi sruli aRqma mox-

des. amaze arasamTavrobo seqtori iSviaTad

Tu zrunavs. bevri maTgani sakmaod seriozu-

li qonebis mepatrone gaxda donori organi-

zaciebis wyalobiT, magram maT Sesaxeb mxo-

lod viwro wrem icis da Sesabamisad, isini

araviTar rols ar TamaSoben ubralo adami-

anisTvis!

lela iakobaSvili _ metsac vity-

vi... esaa seqta! seqta, Tavisi metyvelebis

formatiT, Tavisi cnebiTi aparatiT. ”enjeoS-

nikebi” erTmaneTs kargad ugeben; kulturaSi

vera, magram erTmaneTSi SeaqvT SfoTi... es

arian hiperaqtiuri adamianebi, romlebic amis

realizebas socialur sivrceSi Znelad

axerxeben, amitom donorebTan metad hiperaq-

tiurni arian; SemoaqvT iseTi cnebiT apara-

ti, romelic sruliad acdenilia Cems buneb-

riv metyvelebas da misi Targmanebac ki Se-

uZlebelia da mainc Tu moxexrxda, es imde-

nad komikuria, rom statistikuri adamiani

amas ganicdis!...

zaza firaliSvili _ Cven varT

gardamavali sazogadoeba, romelic raRac

stabiluri, stuqturulad gamarTuli mdgo-

mareobisaken midis... magram ra Tqma unda,

jerjerobiT amas vakeTebT mouxeSavad, Sec-

domebiT.. magram amas ver davabraleb vercerT

xelisuflebas. es isev istoriuli Cvevebis

problemaa. yvelaferi es Caivlis, Caivlis

is, rac gvawuxebs da darCeba is, rac saWi-

roa! da Tu Cven cocxali xalxi varT, Tu

CvenSi aris cocxali muxti, energetika, nam-

dvilad gadavrCebiT! mTavaria, meti raciona-

lizmi, rac Cven gvWirdeba da naklebi egzal-

tireba.

- dRes sazogadoebaSi bevrs msjeloben

mediis problemebze, rogorc Tavad Jurna-

listebi, aseve eqspertebi, mediaproduqtis

momxmareblebi da sxv. qarTuli media aris

polarizebuli, aqvs naxevradTavisufali xa-

risxis indeqsi... rogor SeafasebdiT qarTu-

li mediis mdgomareobas da SeuZlia Tu ara

mas politikuri zegavlenisagan gaTavisuf-

leba?

lela iakobiSvili _ Tavad sazoga-

doeba mediis produqtia! amitom SemiZlia

vTqva, rom saqarTveloSi mediis reqviemi uk-

ve namReria!

ra aqvs medias saTqmeli? gaqvT rame saT-

qmeli? dRes Tqven ar gaqvT saTqmeli! is, ra-

sac Tqven politikur dakveTas eZaxiT, im po-

litikur Zalebsac ki araferi aqvT CvenTvis

saTqmeli. sazriss arcerTi ar atarebs. ver-

cerTi politikuri Zala Tavis sityvasTan

identuri ver aris. dRes ai, es problemaa,

amitom bunebrivia, rom media propagandis-

tul iaraRad iqca... arsebobs komunikaciuri

sistemis instrumentad anu ori politikuri

Zala erTmeneTs esaubreba gazeTebiT; erTi

politikuri Zala sazogadoebas esaubreba

televiziiT, ramdenime maTgani da arasamTav-

robo organizaciebi - internetT! es aris da

es! politikuri Zalis saTqmeli mediam Cemam-

de unda moitanos... sadac media Tavis funq-

cias asrulebs, sadac SemoqmedebiTi sivrcis

maprovocirebeli da makonstruirebelia da

maT Soris damlagebelia, is

media sad aris?... media aRararis, ase vityodi da is, rom axa-li media gaCndes Cems socialurorganizmSi, niSnavs, rom qar-Tul elitas, aramxolod poli-tikurs, gauCndes saTqmeli, ro-melic ar aqvs!

_ batono zaza, ra aris mizezi, rom

dRes gvaqvs is ori media da mesame, romelic

sasurvelia, jer ar Cans...

zaza firaliSvili _ 90-ian

wlebSi gabatonda tendencia, romelic

dRes mTel Cvens media-sivrces flobs.

anu politikosebma igrZnes , Tu rogori

Zala iyo media da am sivrcis daufleba

daiwyes da mediamac ikisra propaganditu-

li funqcia. Tundac imitom, rom is

sxvagvarad ver irCens Tavs. saSualo yo-

veldRiur adamians moTxovnileba aqvs

mkveTri, yviTeli informaciisken da medi-

am SesTavaza yviTeli informacia; Sesaba-

misad, mas uyalibdeba yviTeli gemovneba

da yalibdeba raRac Caketili wre, sadac

media ver grZnobs Tavis pasuxismgeblo-

bas, rom man SeiZleba Camoayalibos sazo-

gadoeba, romelic Tavisi azrovnebis kul-

turiT iqneba yviTeli. aq ukve Zalin mZi-

me pasuxismgebloba ekisrebaT Cvens Jur-

nalistebs...

lela iakobaSvili - rodesac me me-diis momxmarebeli var da erTaderTi infor-

maciis wyaroa CemTvis, vkonstruirdebi im pa-

ternebiT, romelsac is mawvdis. rodesac ga-

mokiTxvis Sedegebs aqveyneben da amboben, rom

sazogadoebam ar icis, vinaa javaxiSvili da

icis, vinaa biWola, es maTive danaSaulia!

ramdeni welia ivane javaxiSvilis saxeli

qarTul mediaSi ar gaJRerebula, maSin ro-

desac biWola „ekranidan ar Camodis“ da ra

Tqma unda, biWola ecodinebaT! mixeil java-

xiSvili, rogorc mwerali, aravis SeuTava-

zebia mediidan; arc oTar WilaZe... adamianebi

televiziidan erTsadaimave informacias iRe-

ben...

zaza firaliSvili: - Sedagad ra

gvaqvs? ramdenime ”seqtanturi dajgufebebi”

- saxelisuflebo da opoziciuri politiku-

ri partiebi, arasamTavrobo organizaciebi,

media, qveynidan gasuli adamianebi, 300000

probacioneri, 1,6 mln ubralo moqalaqe ...

lela iakobiSvili - Tavisufali

sityva, media, ganmanaTlebloba, cnobierebis

ekonomikuri parametrebi evropaSi gaerTian-

da e.w. adamianTa uflebebSi. es CvenTan, ra-

tomRac damoukidebeli organizaciaa. sruli-

ad araTavsebadi mimarTulebebi gvaqvs im Ri-

rebulebebis mimarT, romlebsac demokratiu-

li sazogadoba atarebs. demokratiuli sazo-

gadoebis ZiriTadi Rirebuleba aris adamia-

nis ufleba. mis garSemo ikribeba informaci-

is Tavisuflad gadacemis da miRebis ufle-

ba, ganaTlebis miRebisa da gadacemis ufle-

ba... es uflebaTa sivrcea da rodesac cal-

kea media, calkea saganmanaTleblo sivrce,

calkea ekonomika, sadac es yvelaferi erTma-

neTs ver grZnobs.

òbieqtivi~

Caivlis is, rac gvawuxebs da darCeba is, rac saWiroa!

3#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w. saerTo gazeTi

xelisufleba axali inicia-

tiviT gamovida _ amieridan vinc

45 wlidan 60 wlamde asakis

moqalaqes miiRebs samsaxurSi,

saSemosavlo gadasaxadis gadax-

disagan Tavisufldeba.

SesaniSnavi iniciativaa, Tum-

ca erTi nakli aqvs _ samuSao-

ze adamiani rom miiRo, samuSao

adgilebi unda arsebobdes, samu-

Sao adgilebi ki ar aris.

mocemul situaciaSi erTa-

derTi `gamosavali~ isaa, rom

45 wlamde asakis TanamSromle-

bi gaferTxo da 45 wels zemoT

vincaa, is miiRo.

ar aris gamoricxuli, zogi-

erTi organizaciis praqtiku-

lad moazrovne xelmZRvaneli

swored ase moiqces da saSemo-

savlo gadasaxadi, romelsac

aqamde sakuTari jibidan ixdida,

dazogos, Tumca aseT SemTxveva-

Si Tavs wamohyofs meore prob-

lema _ sad wavidnen 45 wlamde

asakis umuSevrad darCenili

adamianebi?!

sad wavidnen da daelodon

TavianT rigs anu im dros, ro-

ca 45 wlisani gaxdebian.

ai, ase, vicxovroT, viarse-

boT da viSromoT morigeobiT _

aqamde Tu 45 wlamde asakis

axalgazrdebi `bairamobdnen~,

axla `starikebis~ dro dadga.

saqme isea, rogorc `me, bebia,

iliko da ilarionSi~ wagvi-

kiTxavs _ Cvenc xom viyaviT am

axalgazrdebis xela? dro rom

gava, isinic xom gaxdebian Cveni

tolebi? hoda, yvelaferi rig-

zea!

modiT, vicxovroTmorigeobiT...

ivaniSvilis advokat levins

aeroportSi feradi qvebi CamoarT-

ves da laboratoriaSi waiRes ga-

sasinjad _ eWvi gvaqvs, rom am qve-

biT levins radiaqtiuli nivTiere-

bis Semotana undoda saqarTvelo-

Sio.

laboratoriulma kvlevam daa-

dastura, rom eWvi usafuZvlo iyo

da axla meore varianti Semoagdes:

_ ivaniSvili Savi magiiTa gata-

cebuli da es qvebi albaT, magiuri

ritualebis Casatareblad sWirde-

boda. miliardebi ivaniSvilma Savi

magiis saSualebiT iSovao.

ai, aq ki marTlac `moartyes~

mizanSi Cveni drois Serlok xol-

msebma.

rogorc amboben, Ramis saaTebSi,

savse mTvareobisas, miujdeba Turme

batoni biZina magidas, Sav sanTlebs

aanTebs aurdaurevs erTmaneTSi fe-

rad jadosnur qvebs, raRac saidum-

lo teqsts waikiTxavs da wkap!

dajdeba ramdenime milioni mis an-

gariSze.

TveSi ramdenjerme imeorebs iva-

niSvili am rituals da ase uSro-

melad, muqTad avsebs da avsebs ise-

dac miliardebiT savse yulabas.

ai, aseT versias gvTavazoben `na-

cionalebTan~ daaxloebuli Jurna-

listebi, Tanac, paralelurad, mki-

TxavebTan dadian da ivaniSvilis

bed-iRblis garkvevas cdiloben.

xom ar auries am sabraloebma

sabolood da SiSiT Sepyrobilebma

ar ician, ras Cadian.

Savi magiaàxali memarjvenee-

bis~ liderma daviT gam-

yreliZem ganacxada: bi-

Zina ivaniSvilTan rigSi

Cadgomas ar vapirebTo.

hoda, urigod gaata-

reT, kaco, Rvawlmosi-

li partiaa, didi sta-

JiT da namsaxurobis

grZeli CamonaTvaliT.

ase rom, urigod ga-

vataroT, wina karebidan

Tu ar moxerxdeba, uka-

na karebidan SevaparoT.

eseni, es `memarjveneebi~ ukana

karebidan Separvas ufro arian daC-

veulni.

_ milionis aReba dagvabrales,

milioni ukvirT da miliarderTan

micunculeba ar eTakilebaT _ aS-

karad nawyenia àxlebis~ Tavkaci.

Tavmdablobs batoni gamyreliZe,

Torem am milionamde, rogorc ambo-

ben, sxva milioni iyo, imis iqiT ki-

dev sxva milioni, sul TavSi ki

àldagi~ da SevardnaZe, Tavis kaxa

TargamaZesTan erTad.

boroti enebi amboben, rom swo-

red `memarjveneebis~ ofisSi miita-

nes lurji CanTiT is ramdenime mi-

lioni, romelic arCevnebSi gamarj-

vebul politpartiebs da polit-

subieqtebs daurigdaT Turme par-

lamentSi arSesvlis sazRaurad.

gaxsovT albaT, rogor gulmod-

gined aqucmacebdnen makratliT

parlamentaris mandatebs xalxis

mier arCeuli deputatebi _ Cven am

parlamentSi Sesvlas rogor vikad-

rebTo.

Salva naTelaS-

vili gaocebuli

Slida xelebs _

aba, ras viklavdiT

Tavs, Tu parlamen-

tSi Sesvlas ar va-

pirebdiTo, magram

bolos isic danebda

da Tavisi mandati

sul nakuw-nakuw aq-

cia, Tumca xelfa-

sis regularulad

aRebaze uari ar

uTqvams.

parlamentSi rom mkvdruli si-

Cumea da nacumravlesobas yvela sa-

kiTxi yovelgvari diskusiis gareSe

gaaqvT, es udavod axlebis damsaxu-

rebaa.

aba, aseT xalxs ivaniSvilTan

rigSi Cadgoma ekadrebaT?

gaatareT urigod

4 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

vveessaauubbrreebbiiTT

kkiinnooddookkuummeennttaalliissttss,,

bbaattoonn gia Wubabrias..

__ bbaattoonnoo ggiiaa,, bboolloo wwlleebb-

SSii bbeevvrrjjeerr ggaaiillaannZZRRaa ddaa

aauuggaadd iiqqnnaa mmooxxsseenniieebbuullii qqaarrTT-

vveellii iinntteelliiggeenncciiaa,, xxaann `̀wwiiTT-

lleebbii~~ iiyyvvnneenn,, xxaann `̀CCaarreeccxxiillee-

bbii~~,, mmaaggrraamm ffaarrTToo ssaazzooggaaddooee-

bbiissTTvviiss yyoovveellTTvviiss RRiirreebbuullii

ddaa ssaaiinntteerreessoo iiyyoo ddaa iiqqnneebbaa

iinntteelliiggeenncciiiiss wwaarrmmoommaaddggeenneell-

TTaa mmoossaazzrreebbaa aammaa TTuu iimm mmoovvllee-

nnaazzee.. TTqqvveenn rraa aazzrriiss xxaarrTT bbiizz-

nneessmmeenn bbiiZZiinnaa iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss ppoo-

lliittiikkaaSSii CCaarrTTvviiss SSeessaaxxeebb??

_ aseTi pirovneba, mecenati

saqarTveloSi meore ar aris.

ase farTo masStabis qvelmoq-

medebi arc sarajiSvili da

arc zubalaSvilebi ar yofi-

lan. ivaniSvilma uamravi oja-

xi gadaarCina.

kaci amden Tanxebs debs

saqveyno saqmeSi da axla urk-

veven saidan aqvs. vinme arkvevs

saidan da ra TanxebiT movida

benduqiZe? me, piradad, sura-

Tebi maqvs nanaxi, rogoraa Ca-

xutebuli putinTan. darwmune-

buli var, rom samxedro qarx-

nebs ganagebda, ese igi, kavSi-

rebi aqvs iseT fenebTan, ro-

melTac pirdapiri mtroba aqvT

gamocxadebuli saqarTvelos-

Tan. an kidev, aq rom gamdidr-

debian xolme es biznesmenebi,

imaTze kiTxulobs vinme saidan

da rogor?

rodesac qveyanaSi erovnu-

li saqmeebi da problemebia

mosagvarebeli da me vxedav,

rom es viRacas ukeTesad SeuZ-

lia, gzas davuTmob. yvela ase

unda fiqrobdes. pirveloba ar

mWirdeba, Cemze win unda iyos

is, vinc Cemze ukeTaa saqmeSi

Caxeduli. samwuxarod, Cveni,

qarTvelebis yvelaze didi

ubedureba pirvelobis avadm-

yofobaa. `sZuls RmerTsa am-

partavnoba~, _ ambobda daviT

guramiSvili.

__ iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss eerrTT-eerrTTii

pprrooggrraammaa rruusseeTTTTaann uurrTTiieerrTToo-

bbiiss ddaarreegguulliirreebbaaaa,, TTqqvveenn rroo-

ggoorr TTvvlliiTT,, ddrroomm mmooiittaannaa aammii-

ssii aauucciilleebblloobbaa??

_ Cven gvyavda brwyinvale

mefe erekle meore. igi spar-

seTSi aRizarda da madloba

RmerTs. rom mokavSired airCia

ruseTi. pirvel rigSi, es imi-

tom gakeTa, rom winaaRmdeg

SemTxvevaSi, qarTvelebi erT-

maneTs SeWamdnen. mas Zalian

mZime periodSi mouxda mefoba.

ar dagaviwydeT, rom 83 wlisa

iyo da kidev ibrZoda. yvelam

uRalata garSemo. Svilebmac

ki uRalates, maTgan saukeTeso

ki moukles da es isev qarTve-

lebma gaakeTes.

stalinmac Tqva, yvelaze

naklebi boroteba saqarTve-

losTvis ruseTTan SeerTeba

iyo. stalinizmisgan Zalian

Sors vdgavar, man gaanadgura

Cemi da kidev bevri brwyinvale

ojaxi, magram is Wkviani kaci

iyo. man msoflio faSizmisgan

gadaarCina. im dRes faSizmis

damarcxeba warmoudgeneli

iyo, amisi ardanaxva ar SeiZ-

leba.

ivaniSvili ambobs, ùnda

daregulirdes ruseTTan ur-

TierToba, es uZlieresi qveya-

naa Tavisi minusebiTa da pli-

usebiT. saerTod, urTierTobe-

bis daregulireba yovelTvis

yvelasTan unda scado. sarwmu-

no wyaroebidan vici, rom ar-

Zinbas uTqvams qarTvelebisT-

vis, davsxdeT da vilaparako-

To, qarTvelebma es Turme ar

ikadres. maSin me ruseTs miv-

marTavo da daiwyo is ubedur-

ba, rac dRemde grZeldeba.

__ aannuu,, TTqqvveenn mmiieessaallmmeebbiiTT iimm

ffaaqqttss,, rroomm iivvaanniiSSvviillmmaa ppoollii-

ttiikkaaSSii mmoossvvllaa ggaaddaawwyyvviittaa ddaa

TTvvlliiTT,, rroomm qqvveeyynniissTTvviiss eess

mmoommggeebbiiaannii iiqqnneebbaa......

_ ra Tqma unda. gamoCnda bi-

Zina ivaniSvili, mis

Semdeg SeiZleba,

viRac kidev ukeTe-

si gamoCndes. mas

unda miesalmo da

ara RvarZli anT-

xio, miTumetes,

rom patara eri

varT. magram qarT-

velebs ase sCveviaT

_ erTmaneTs anad-

gureben. dRemde fe-

odalebad davrCiT.

kacma ramdenime aTeuli kvadra-

tuli miwis gulisTvis mamis,

dis da disSvilis mokvla ga-

dawyvita, aseTi ram warmoudge-

nelia. qarTvelTa umetesoba

arafers gascems saxelmwifosT-

vis, piriqiT, mudam mzadaa Zar-

cvos qveyana. mere es ZeglebTan

da mkvdrebTan brZola raRa

ubedurebaa. stalinis deda un-

da amovTxaroT saflavidano. es

ra kacobaa. an Tundac stalinis

Zegli rom gadaitanes, Tu vaJ-

kaci xar, aseTebs cocxlebs eb-

rZole. es sisulelea, mdabali

xalxis fsiqologiaa.

iseTi pirovnebisgamoCenas, rogoricbiZina ivaniSvilia,yvelasTvis misasal-mebeli unda iyos,prezidentisTvisacki. gverdiT unda dai-yenos es kaci, bevrs

moigebs. unda Sevik-raT, gavufrTxildeTCvens marTlac RvT-ismSoblis wilxvedrqveyanas,

xom xedavT, ra xdeba sxva-

gan, rogori kataklizmebia,

tornadoebi, cunamebi. Cven

madloba RmerTs, aseTi ram

ar gvemuqreba. sxvagan xalxi

ocnebobs, netavi raimem ixa-

roso. cimbirSi rom vmuSaob-

di, iq Cemma kolegebma mTxo-

ves, erTi yvavili gamogvig-

zavneT, me veubnebi, qoTanSi

Carguls gamogigzavniT-meTqi.

ara, yvavilis furceli ga-

mogvigzavneo; asea mowyurebu-

li es xalxi imas, rasac Cven

RmerTi siniT gvaZlevs. unda

gaviTvaliswinoT, rom globa-

lizaciaa, aqve Cems saxlTan

Turqi iSenebs saxls, Zalian

cudi demografiuli mdgoma-

reoba gvaqvs. msoflioSi re-

alurad dgas musulmanuri

saSiSroeba. adre xmliT vi-

cavdiT maTgan Tavs, axla Ta-

namedrove meTodebiT Semodi-

an, amas globalizacia uwyobs

xels. tolernatoba kargia,

magram zedmeti araferi var-

ga.

ivaniSvili pasuxismgeblo-

bas grZnobs qveynis winaSe da

unda mieces saSualeba, rom

imoqmedos. cota miamitic

aris xasiaTiT, es gamoixate-

ba pirdapirobaSi, magram faq-

tia, rom qveynis gadarCenis

survili amoZravebs. RmerTma

kidev erTxel gamogviwoda

gadarCenis xeli da gamoviye-

noT. Wkviani erebi mtrebs

iyeneben, Cven sakuTar patri-

otebs da keTilmosurneebs

ver viyenebT.

Wkviani kacis naTqvami

sityva minda gavigono am qve-

yanaSi. ivaniSvili Wkviania da

mivceT saSualeba, Wkua qv-

eynis sasargeblod gamoi-

yenos.

Tamuna qadagiZe

`Wkviani erebi mtersac ki saTavisod iyeneben,

Cven ki Cvens Tavdadebul patriotebs vebrZviT?~

cixeSi momxdari buntis dro dazaralebuli daviT gaixaraSvilis deda biZina

ivaniSvils mimarTavs2006 wels

cixeSi momxda-

ri buntis dr-

os dazarale-

buli, umZimes

mdgomareobaSi

myofi daviT

gaixaraSvilis

deda qeTevan

gigauri biznesmen biZina ivaniSvils Ria mi-

marTvas ugzavnis.

,,me, qeTevan gigauri, umZimes mdgomare-

obaSi Cavardnili Svilis deda, batono bi-

Zina, mogmarTavT umorCilesad, Tu odesme

rame kargi gagikeTebiaT, amaze kargs ver ga-

akeTebdiT. me Tqveni mjera, mwams... gTxovT

SemxvdiT, damelaparakeT, oRond ar momikv-

des Cemi Svili. gemudarebiT, batono biZi-

na SemxvdiT, sxva gza aRar maqvs, mikvdeba

Svili...batono biZina, Tqvenc xom gyavT

Svilebi, RmerTma didxans gicocxloT. me

es erTi Svili damrCa, gTxovT gadamirCi-

neT. RmerTi Tqven giSveliT. aucileblad

RmerTi dagifaravT, daTos daxmarebisTvis.

arafers gTxovT sxvas, SemxvdiT... minda Ce-

mi mdgomareoba agixsnaT. mikvdeba Svili da

aravin hyavs patroni”- aRniSnulia qeTevan

gigauris mimarTvaSi.

mimarTvaSi qeTevan gigauri wers, rom

man damxarebisTvis jandacvis saministro-

sac mimarTa.

,,ar gegonoT, rom ar mivmarTe jandac-

vis saministros, yvelas mivmarTe dasaxma-

reblad. miTumetes, Cemi Svili saxelmwi-

fosganaa dazaralebuli – yofili sport-

smeni, mas sicocxle unda... axalgazrdaa.

batono biZina, daTos es saSineleba cixeSi

damarTes. 2006 wels, e.w. buntis dros.

daainvalides, daamtvries, loginidan veRar

dgeba. Zalian mZimed aris ukve... aravin maq-

cevs yuradRebas... iZulebuli gavxdi, Tqven

SegawuxoT. kidev erTxel gTxovT gamware-

buli deda. sul xuT wuTs wagarTmevT,

mets - ara. es Cemi vedreba miiReT da Rmer-

Ti giSveliT Tqven da Tqvens Svilebs”- aR-

niSnulia mimarTvaSi.

irakli alasania burjanaZesTan politikur

erTobas gamoricxavspartia ,,Tavisufa-

li demokratebis” li-

deri irakli alasania

`demokratiuli moZra-

obis~ lider nino

burjanaZesTan poli-

tikur erTobas gamo-

ricxavs.

misi TqmiT, is ver

iqneba politikur er-

TobaSi iseT partiebTan, romlebic iyvnen

da rCebian radikaluri cvlilebebis moxre.

,,urTierTobas ar gamovricxav, bunebri-

via. me ar vyof Cems qveyanas da mosaxleo-

bas viRacis mxardamWerebad da viRacis mo-

winaRmdegeebad. es aris yvelas qveyana, qal-

batoni burjanaZisac, Cemic da Tqvenic. mag-

ram es sul sxva Temaa da politikuri er-

Toba da erT Zalad Camoyalibeba sxva Te-

maa, romelic gamoricxulia”, _ ganacxada

alasaniam.

`medianiusi~

5saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

pirvel noembers pirvelad

vnaxe (davesesxebi im viRac mai-

munebis arxis xelmZRvanels)

amdeni `gawvrTnili maimuni~ er-

Tad. ra Tqma unda, iq gauwvrT-

neli maimunebic iyvnen da Jur-

nalistebic, magram wvrTna Ta-

visas Svreba, gawvrTnilma mai-

munebma ise imaimunes, gadafares

danarCenebis arseboba Tavyri-

lobaze, romelsac ratomRac

preskonferencia erqva. iseTi

STabeWdileba darCeboda ucxo

Tvals, TiTqos erTi didi vo-

lieris win ijda biZina ivaniS-

vili da erToboda imis yure-

biT, rogor stacebdnen erTma-

neTs banan-mikrofons maimunebi,

an rogor umalavda erTi maTga-

ni danarCenebs, an rogor ver

arTmevdnen igive `xils~ imas,

romelic xelSi Caigdebda _ es

ra vnaxe!

amdeni dRe gavida da axlac

yurSi Camesmis erT-erTi `mai-

munTsaSenis~ xelmZRvanelis es

fraza `gawvrTnili maimunebi~,

im xelmZRvanelisa, romelic

ver vxvdeba, rom TviTonac gaw-

vrTnili maimunia, swored imgva-

ri, rogoric patara caxes ci-

noberi iyo, hofmanis nawarmoe-

bis personaJi;

amdeni dRe gavida `mwvane

saxlSi~ gamarTuli preskonfe-

renciidan da `gawvrTnili mai-

munebis~ Semxedvares Tan mdevs

batoni Wabuas mier daTa Tu-

TaSxias piriT naTqvami sityve-

bi: `vin xarT, Tqve ubedurebo,

ra jiSis xarT! ra giyoT da

ras dagamsgavsaT mamaZaRlma abe-

la seTurma da, ager, mosaspob-

ma Tabagarma, ar fiqrobT?! ver

xedavT amas?!~

rac biZina ivaniSvili sayo-

velTao yuradRebis centrSi

aRmoCnda da masTan interviu Tu

intervius msgavsi `baasi~ mavan-

TaTvis sanukvar ocnebad iqca

sxvadasxva mizeziT, kaci ixvewe-

ba, is mkiTxeT, rac sazogadoe-

bas ainteresebs, rac piradad

Tqven gainteresebT, nu mekiTxe-

biT imas, rac Tqvens gamomgzav-

nebs ainteresebTo, magram ver

Seasmina veravis. igives imeoreb-

da im dResac, Tan im `bananis~

taciaobas wuxda, pativi eciT

Tqvens profesias, pativi eciT

Tqvens kolegebso, mouwodebda

friad gaaqtiurebulebs. amaod

irjeboda maspinZeli, radgan

aranair mowodebas ar ZaluZs

daSoSminos aboJirebuli voli-

eri, radgan aranair caxess ar

SeuZlia, ragind gawvrTnili

iyos, damalos adamianuri Sesa-

moselidan gamomzirali prima-

tis sulis triali...

ra Tqma unda, adamianebi, e.w

Jurnalistebi Tu maRali ran-

gis Tanamdebobis pirebi veraf-

riT mixvdebian, ras vambob, `na-

xe, kolegebs sul maimunebi

uwodao~, damwameben. vinc amgva-

rad ifiqrebs, maT gasagonad ki-

dev erTxel vimeoreb, es sity-

vebi me ar miTqvams, Tqvenma

xelmZRvanelma, ase vTqvaT, `ma-

imunuri saqmianobis~ mimarTu-

lebis gezis momcemma Tqva da

albaT, icoda kidec, rasac am-

bobda. diax, Jurnalisti, rome-

lic dRes elene axvledianis

mobiluris nomers daeZebs mas-

Tan intervius Casawerad, maRa-

li Tanamdebobis piri ki akakis

saxl-muzeumSi TaiguliT xel-

Si akakis saflavs daeZebs, ra-

gind mravalgzis ganumarto

darvinis Teoria, sapirispiros

dagimtkicebs.

diax, piradad me, im dRis

Semdeg imdenad SeZruli var

qarTuli Jurnalistikis dege-

neraciiT, rom darvinsRa mivmar-

Tav: `ser Carlz, Tqven mwared

SecdiT _ adamianisgan warmoiS-

va maimuni~...

26 maisis aqciis darbevamde,

maxsovs, calkeuli politikuri

saxeebi Jurnalistebis akredi-

taciis sakiTxsac ki ayenebdnen

aqciaze dasaswrebad, maSin iTq-

va `pagoniani Jurnalistebis~

Sesaxeb Riad da Seulamazeb-

lad. mere ki, TviT 26 maisis

darbevis dros Jurnalistebis

mimarT aSkara gamoxatuli ag-

resia rom vixile sakuTari Tva-

liT, amjerad xelisuflebis

mxridan, manamde Tu aqciis mo-

nawileebisgan dafarulad mqon-

da Jurnalistis mowmoba, axla

mis moSorebaze vfiqrobdi, am

cxovelebma es rom naxon, uare-

sad gadairevian-Tqo.

stresma rom gadamiara, vam-

bobdi, ra Sari gamixda es mow-

moba, orive mxares vumalavdi-

Tqo. gasagebia, xalxi gaRiziane-

bulia imiT, rom televiziebi

araobieqturad aSuqeben qveyana-

Si mimdinare movlenebs, magram

sakuTar televiziebSi Tu un-

daT, sulac Tavdayira ivlian,

àr mogwons? _ gadarTe!~ xom

xedaven, asea dayenebuli sa-

kiTxi-Tqo, vamarTlebdi Cems

kolegebs. erTma asakovanma qal-

ma miTxra, Svilo, RmerTma da-

gifaros, magram jer kidev sis-

xlmdinari mokluli Svili rom

win gesvenis da Seni kolegebi

naxevarwuTiani eTerisTvis, ise

rom, srulebiT ar ainteresebT,

Svili mogikles Tu qaTami, mik-

rofons gCridnen pirSi, eWvi

visze gaqvso da ukan dagedevnon

jgrod, ra ganwyoba dageufle-

bao? _ gavCumdi. Semzara...

ukve (didi xania) naTelia,

rom mikrofoni banani yofila

mravalTaTvis (rogorc, vTqvaT,

momRerali maimunebisTvis), mag-

ram Wamis (ara mxolod sakvebi-

sas) survilis dakmayofilebis

dauokebel grZnobas sadamde

mihyavs adamiani, esec me unda

vTqva? `biZia-babuasi~ ar iyos

`Serekilebidan~, ras gaswav-

lidnen, Tqve ubedurebo, sko-

laSi...

nebismier gamvlels rom

hkiTxoT, pirveli uZvelesi

profesia ra ariso, daufiqreb-

lad gipasuxebs, rom meZavobaa.

rom CaeZio, meoreo? _ Tvalebs

aafaxulebs, tuCebs aSkvers da

cas axedavs, iqneb pasuxi STa-

megonoso. nu hkiTxavT nebismier

gamvlels, im JurnalistebisT-

vis unda gekiTxaT, (romelTa

zusti raodenoba verafriT da-

vadgine, 170? 233?) mTawmindis

`mwvane saxlidan~ rom gamovid-

nen, ggoniaT, sxva suraTs mii-

RebdiT? _ meZavobis Tqmaze isi-

nic ar Seyovndebodnen, meore

profesiaze ki, gamvlelebisgan

gansxvavebiT, yurebs aafaxuleb-

dnen, egeb TviTon wamoscdes da

davimaxsovroo.

ras vizamT, roca dRevandel

zogierT e.w Jurnalists hgoni-

a, rom Jurnalistika me-20 sau-

kunis pirmSoa, (mas Semdeg gaC-

nda, rac televizori gamoCnda)

ukeTes SemTxvevaSi XIX sauku-

nis, kidev ukeTes SemTxvevaSi

XVII-XVIII saukuneebis, _ Jur-

nalistma mxolod wera-kiTxva

rom icis da `sxvagan hqris mi-

si goneba~, amis bralia es. ba-

nani-mikrofoni da misgan miRe-

buli kuWis moTxovnilebis dak-

mayofilebis grZnoba arasdros

gascems im kiTxvaze pasuxs, ro-

melia uZvelesi profesia meZa-

vobis Semdeg. am kiTxvaze rom

pasuxi gasces Jurnalistma,

jer is unda icodes, ra gansx-

vavebaa papirossa da papiruss

Soris, mere is, ra iwereboda

papirusebze da romel aTaswle-

ulebSi. (is ar unda ikiTxos,

romel wlebSio) teleJurna-

listma is mainc unda icodes,

rom Jurnalistika televiziiT

ar iwyeba, televiziiT tele-

Jurnalistikas Caeyara safuZve-

li, rom termini `Jurnalisti-

ka~ mxolod konkretuli azris

Semcveli iyo, aRniSnavda ga-

zeTs, dRiurs da ara im erTob-

liobas, romlis mravalferova-

ni saxec dRes gvaqvs...

arsad weria SaviT TeTrze,

rogori unda iyos Jurnalisti,

magram arc is weria sadme, rom

Jurnalisti Tavxedi, uzrdeli,

ukulturo, matyuara da eSmak-

ze sulmiyiduli unda iyos...

arc is weria sadme, rom

radgan uZveles profesiaTagan

pirveli meZavobaa da meore

Jurnalistoba, pirovnebaSic

pirvel-meore adgilebze (pir-

dapir Tu gadataniTi mniSvne-

lobiT) unda gadanawildes.

rodesac Jurnalisti (`pre-

sa.ge~) gamodis `mwvane saxlSi~

gamarTuli preskonferenciidan

da ambobs, biZina ivaniSvili

preskonferenciaze tyviagaumta-

ri SuSis miRma ijdao, gaxevde-

bi Tundac imitom, rom baton

merab beraZis SesaZleblobebi

gagaognebs, rogor daubrkoleb-

lad gavida `tyviagaumtar~ Su-

SaSi, _ aseTi saocari tyuilis

daxeTqeba sakuTari Tavis da-

xeTqeba rom aris, amas rom e.w

Jurnalisti ver mixvdeba da

xels moawers amaze, romeli

uZvelesi profesiis mimdevaria,

netav, misma patronma (Tu hyavs)

mainc Tu icis, Torem TviTon

rom ar icodes, verc moxvdebo-

da iq.

TviT is faqti, rom àse na-

natri~ preskonferenciis Cata-

rebis Semdeg Jurnalistebis

qcevis sakiTxi gaxda mniSvne-

lovani da ara is, ra Tqva kac-

ma, vis gamoc Tavi daiviwya ara-

erTma mdedrma Tu mamrma, mxo-

lod imis amsaxvelia, ra qaosi-

caa isedac gaorpirqarebuli

xelisuflebis TavSi misi gamo-

CenisTanave. amas garda, aris me-

orec, e.w Jurnalistebi ise ga-

iWaWnen ivaniSvilisTvis niRbis

Camosaxsnelad e.w `CamWreli

kiTxvebis arsenaliT~ SeiaraRe-

bulebi, rom gauazreblad saku-

Tar marCenals eZgernen da ise

Camoaglijes niRabi, zogs saxis

kanic gahyva Tbil qveynebSi ga-

dafrenil mercxlebTan erTad

(mercxlis, beRurebisa da ping-

vinis `Tema~ xom ukve fsiqopa-

Tobis donemde davida Tu avi-

da).

socialur qselSi gavrcel-

da, im dRes qarTuli Jurnalis-

tika dasamarda da droulad

unda gaasvenono, _ ara, batone-

bo, qarTul Jurnalistikas ara-

feri sWirs gasasvenebeli, ubra-

lod, saxelisuflebo e.w Jur-

nalisturi nagavia gasatani,

bevri dagrovda, daxvavda da

isic iseve yars, rogorc maTi

mama-marCenalis dorbliani pi-

ri...

maia WeliZe

gawvrTnili maimunebi dabanani, saxelad mikrofoni

ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~

internetSi

www.saertogazeti.netSemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-zzee

6 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

mas Semdeg, rac saqrTvelos

ruseTume prezidentma winandal-

Si iqeifa, icekva da sul `ka-

linka~ da èx, darogi~ imRera,

SegviZlia kategoriulad mo-

viTxovoT: daabruneT rusuli

simRerebi qarTul restornebSi!

saqme is gaxlavT, rom SabaTs

winandalSi rusi reJisoris, pu-

tinis Zma da megobris, nikita

mixalkovis qaliSvilis qorwi-

li gaimarTa. siZe qarTveli re-

Jisoria. sakuTar qorwilSi vin

rogor moilxens, ra Cveni saq-

mea. Cven is vikiTxoT, sakuTari

prezidenti ratom daiareba qor-

wil-qorwil da Rvinisagan saxe-

dafiJvinebuli ratom pozio-

robs fotokamerebis win, TiT-

qos Zalian saamayo saqmeze iyos

Casuli winandalSi? isic vi-

kiTxoT, Tu paata burWulaZisT-

vis moskovSi simRera samSoblos

Ralatia, ra hqvia ucxo da erT

dros `persona non gratad~ ga-

mocxadebuli kacis qorwilSi

kuntruSs? da saerTodac, Tu

xelisuflebisTvis nebadarTu-

lia cnobil rus saxeebTan gar-

Toba, ratom aris CvenTvis akr-

Zaluli saqmiani urTierTobebic

ki? da bolos, am xelisuflebas

saerTod namusi aqvs da ramis

cxvenia?

ise, msgavsi ritorikuli

kiTxva bolo namdvilad ver iq-

neba da Tu ratom, amas qveviT

vnaxavT.

saSiSi vaqcina

naxevrad gayidul da gasayi-

dad gamzadebul bavSvTa polik-

linikebSi sagangaSo ambavi gavr-

celda. eqimebs treningebi Cau-

tares da gaafrTxiles, rom mi-

Rebulia axli vaqcina yivanaxve-

la, difteriisa da wiTelasT-

vis, romelic CexeTidan Semoi-

tanes. jandacvis saerTaSoriso

organizaciam am preparats li-

cenzia ar mianiWa. wamlis legi-

timaciisaTvis saqarTvelos xe-

lisuflebam adgilze moaxdina

vaqcinis licenzireba da polik-

linikebSi ise Seitana. am

acras ufasod akeTeben,

oRond eqimebi mSoblebs

afrTxileben, rom saSi-

Sia patarebisTvis, visac

ZaRlis bewvze alergia

aqvs. rogor unda mixvdes

deda, axalSobils aler-

gia raze aqvs, Zneli ga-

sarkvevia. mTavaria, rom

poliklinikebs parale-

lurad aqvT xarisxiani wamali,

romelic 38 lari Rirs da

mSoblebs araoficialurad afr-

Txileben, Tu Zalian ar giWirT,

nu gariskavT, isev fasiani acra

gaukeTeTo. Catarda Tu ara ten-

deri Cexuri vaqcinis Semotana-

ze, ramdeni daixarja biujeti-

dan, an vin gariska aralicenzi-

rebuli vaqcinis Semotana, sa-

xelmwifo saidumloebad rCeba.

saidumloa isic, Tu visi bizne-

sia vaqcinebis Semotana da vin

iSova fuli uvargisi wamlis

realizebiT. SarSan poliklini-

kebi 100-140 larad hyiddnen

sxvadasxva warmoebis analogiur

vaqcinebs. maSin jandacvis cent-

ri amtkicebda, rom saqarTvelo-

Si fasiani vaqcina ar arsebobs

da es saqme ver iqneba kerZo biz-

nesis obieqti. am gancxadebebis

miuxedavad, bavSvebi isev fulis

Sovnis obieqtad rCebian da Ta-

nac Zalian sarisko TamaSSi ari-

an moxvedrilebi, ise, rom amis

Sesaxeb xSirad mSoblebmac ara-

feri ician.

kidev erTi

mamali tyuili

Semdegi saxelisuflebo afe-

ra axal salaro aparatebs

Seexeba. sagadasaxado samsaxu-

ris ofisebSi misul biznesme-

nebs didi, magram kargad nac-

nobi siurprizi xvdebaT: ufa-

so qveyanaze araferia, gadai-

xadeT 306 lari. es sagadasa-

xados moTxovnaa. im sagadasa-

xadosi, romlis yofili Sefi

erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi

gvmoZRvravda, rom axal sala-

ro aparatebs mewarmeebisTvis

saxelmwifo SeiZenda. rogorc

sazogadoebisaTvis aris cnobi-

li, axali salaro aparati

GPRS sistemazea mierTebuli da

obieqtis mflobels Tavisuf-

lad SeuZlia, sakuTari maRazia

an obieqti akontrolos. am sis-

temis saSualebiT sagadasaxado

inspeqtoric onlain-reJimSi xe-

davs da akontrolebs, Tu ro-

gor mimdinareobs sagadasaxado

angariSsworeba.

rogorc oficialurad acxa-

deben, Semosavlebis samsaxursa

da kompania Daisy Technology-sSoris xelmowerili xelSekru-

lebiT, SeZenilia 100 000 cali

salaro aparati. maTi SeZena 13

300 000 dolari dajda. nawyve-

ti sagadasaxado samsaxuris

SarSandeli informaciidan: `sa-

laro aparats 3 weli eqneba ga-

rantia da is ufasod gadaecema

im mewarmeebs, visi biznesic 250

000 laris brunvas ar aRemate-

ba, xolo im mewarmes, romlis

biznesis brunva am Tanxaze me-

tia, finansTa saministros Tav-

dapirveli dapirebis miuxedavad,

salaro aparatis SeZena mouwevs.

aparati 300 lari Rirs~.

calsaxad SegviZlia vTqvaT,

rom mTavrobam mewarmeebisTvis

micemuli piroba kidev erTxel

daarRvia da komerciuli inte-

resiT moqmedeba daiwyo. `fuli,

babaia, fuli!~ _ am xelisufle-

bis maradiuli devizia. Tu ga-

viTvaliswinebT, rom dRevande-

li mdgomareobiT, oficialur

reestrSi 355 aTasi subieqtia

aRricxuli, unda vikiTxoT, ro-

gor apirebda Semosavlebis sam-

saxuri 100 000 salaro apara-

tis ganawilebas? SeuZlebeli

iyo, 250 000 larze naklebi

brunva mxolod 100 000 mewar-

mes hqonoda. hoda, sagadasaxdo-

mac martivi gamosavali ipova:

iyidos iman, visac fuli aqvs.

marTalia, oficialurad amas

aravin adasturebs, magram yvela

mewarme fiqrobs, rom Zveli apa-

ratebis moqmedebis vada wlis

bolos amoiwureba, anu wlis

bolomde axali salaro apara-

tebi, mTeli saqarTvelos masS-

tabiT, yvela savaWro obieqtSi

unda daidgas. vinc ver moaxer-

xebs SeZenas, bunebrivia, soli-

durad dajarimdeba. arada, Zali-

an bevria iseTi mcire mewarme,

vinc wlis dasawyisSi Zlivs mo-

axerxa salaro aparatis SeZena

da axla sagadasaxado isev

Txovs, oTusbirad SeiZinos axa-

li aparatebi. isic sakiTxavia,

290 larad Rirebul nivTs ra-

tom yidis saxelmwifo 306 la-

rad da vis jibeSi midis is 16

lari?

papapa, ra SeRavaTebia!

mogexsenebaT, prezidenti bi-

Zina ivaniSvilis gamoCenam ise

aSala, rom dapirebas dapirebaze

iZleva da iseT Tamasuqebs ari-

gebs, sulsa da guls uxaria. am-

Jamad, miSas didi sazrunavi is

Suaxnis xalxia, vinc Tavis

droze TviTon moisrola drois

sanagveze da faqtobrivad, saqmi-

anobis ufleba aukrZala. ro-

gorc Cans, prezidentma, zurike-

lasaviT igrZno, rom es misi

yvelaze seriozuli `garRvevaa~

da amis gamosasworeblad axali

Tamasuqi isrola: kompania, ro-

melic 45-60 wlis moqalaqes

daasaqmebs, gaTavisufldeba saSe-

mosavlo gadasaxadisgan. ex, mi-

Sa, miSa, egre dawvrilmanebac ar

Rirs. sad unda daasaqmon, roca

samuSao adgilebis deficitia

da Tanac am gadasaxads biznesi

ki ara Cven, moqalaqeebi vixdiT

sakuTari xelfasidan, anu saku-

Tari jibidan.

2007 wels, ori gadasaxadi

- saSemosavlo da sacialuri ga-

erTianda. Tu adre daqiravebuli

xelfasidan saxelmwifo biu-

jetSi saSemosavlo gadasaxadis

saxiT 12%-s ixdida, damqirave-

beli ki socialuri gadasaxadis

saxiT 20%-s, cvlilebebis Sem-

deg, am ori gadasaxadis gadamx-

deli mxolod daqiravebuli

gaxda da xelfasis 25%-is ga-

daxda daekisra. es drakonuli

gadawyvetileba maSin swored

damsaqmeblis, anu potenciuri

investoris gulis mosagebad mi-

iRes da gadasaxadis mTeli sim-

Zime daqiravebuls daakisres.

erTi sityviT, xelisuflebam sa-

kuTari cxovreba Cvens xarjze

aiwyo. dRes ki ratom cdiloben

amis gamosworebas, yvela kargad

xedavs.

es iniciativac rom blefia

da araferi aqvs saerTo realo-

basTan, amaze yvela biznesmeni,

sxvaTa Soris, Riad laparakobs.

maTi zogadi komentari aseTia:

skeptikurad vuyureb am inicia-

tivas, radgan ara mgonia, aman

vinmes rame SeRavaTi moutanos.

Tu axali samuSao adgilebi ar

Seiqmna, bazari ar gaizarda, ra

Seicvleba? ra, Zvelebi unda ga-

uSvan da Suaxnis xalxi miiRon?

es iniciativa gaamarTlebs maSin,

Tu ekonomikaSi realurad momen-

taluri zrda wava~.

ufro kategoriulia irak-li petriaSvili, gaerTiane-buli profkavSirebis xelmZRva-

neli:

_ CvenSi asaki namdvilad gan-

msazRvrelia, diskriminaciulad

ganmsazRvrelic. xSirad adamia-

nebs dasaqmebaze uars eubnebian

asakis gamo. damlageblis vakan-

siebic ki 20-25 wlamde aris.

Zalian zogadi gancxadebaa da

rogoria misi qveteqstebi, ar

viciT. miT ufro, ganmarteba ga-

akeTes, rom es xalxi sam-sami

TviT dasaqmdebian. xom ar gaxde-

ba es iniciativa sababi imisTvis,

rom axalgazrdebi daiTxovon, an

kadrebi maqsimalurad gadaiyva-

non samTvian xelSekrulebebze?

iqneb isic moxdes, rom asakova-

ni TanamSromelebi saxlSi gauS-

van da mere xelaxla aiyvanon.

gasagebia, rom gvinda xalxis da-

saqmeba, Tanac yvelaze ganawyene-

buli fenis, magram ramdenad iq-

neba es iniciativa gadamwyveti,

Zneli saTqmelia.

p.s. kidev erTi mniSvnelova-

ni sircxvili gasuli kviris

samTavrobo sisuleleebidan: sa-

qarTvelo, `principuli da Se-

uqcevadi~ poziciis miuxedavad,

daTanxmda ruseTis saerTaSori-

so organizaciaSi gawevrianebas.

gaiJRera, rom monitorings

sazRvrebze ara saerTaSoriso

organizaciebi, aramed, kerZo pi-

rebi ganaxorcieleben. agaSenaT

RmerTma, fulis Sovnis kidev

erTi wyaro da isic rusebTan

erTad. verafers ityvi, ician bi-

Webma fulis keTeba patriotu-

lad da samSoblos xarjze!

manana gegiZe


internetSi

www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zzee

prezidentis rusuli qeifi, akrZaluli vaqcina bavSvebisTvisda sagadasaxados kidev erTi tyuili, anu rogor viSovoT fuli mosaxleobis xarjze?

7saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

,,saerTo gazeTis~ stumaria

politologi ramaz sayvare-liZe:

_ batono ramaz, biZina iva-

niSvilis preskonferencias fei-

erverki uwodeT. ra gaZlevT

amis Tqmis safuZvels?

_ feirverki vuwode ara

mxolod biZina ivaniSvilis ga-

mosvlas, aramed mTlianad iq

Seqmnil mdgomareobas. situacia

atarebda ara preskonferenciis,

aramed politikuri duelis

iers xelisuflebasa da ivaaniS-

vils Soris. xelisuflebis po-

zicia samTavrobo mediis Jur-

nalistebi axovanebdnen. TiTqmis

yvela qveyanSi arsebobs mediis

garkveuli jgufi, romelic gar-

kveul politikur ZalebTan

asocirdeba da maTi interesebis

gamtarebelia. romelime poli-

tikur segmentTan dakavSirebui-

li Jurnalistebi, rogorc wesi,

mxolod romantiulad ar arian

maTTan mierTebuli. mediis war-

momadgenlebi politikuri eli-

tisgan sxvadasxva saxis davale-

bebs Rebuloben, romelic poli-

tikosebis strategias emsaxure-

ba. CemTvis yvelaze ufro metad

saintereso iyo Tu ra strate-

gia hqonda xelisuflebas, xo-

lo, meore mxriv, ra sapasuxo

manevrebs Caatarebda ivaniSvili

imis gaTvaliswinebiT, rom kiTx-

vebic da pasuxebic metnaklebad

momzadebuli iyo.

_ Tqveni azriT, ra strar-

tegia aqvs xelisuflebas?

_ jerjerobiT, xelisufle-

bis strategiad kvlav rCeba ru-

sul Temaze apelireba. aRara-

fers vambob, beRurebze, pingvi-

nebsa da mercxlebze.

_ relurad, visi feirverki

iyo saxelisuflebo mediis Tu

ivaniSvilis?

_ ra Tqma unda, es iyo biZi-

na ivaniSvilis feierverki. po-

litikur duelSi, Cemda gasakvi-

rad, ivaniSvilma sakmaod kar-

gad imuSava. imis gaTvaliswine-

biT, rom nino JiJilaSvilTan

micemul interviuSi emociuri

reaqcia im nawilSi gamoavlina,

sadac ar unda gamoexata. yvelas

gasakvirad, ivaniSvilma mSvi-

dad,GRimil-sicilSi Caatara

preskonferencia, magram, praqti-

kulad, arc erTi pozicia ar

daTmo. amis gakeTeba politiko-

sis mxridan ukve didi warmate-

baa.

_ batono ramaz, saqarTvel-

oSi ramdenad arsebobs imis re-

sursi, rom ivaniSvilma dagegmi-

li ganaxorcielos?

_ im adamianTa ricxvs ar mi-

vekuTvnebi vinc, Tvlis, rom

dRevandeli ivaniSvili politi-

kuri TvalsazrisisaT, misi sa-

boloo saxea. is mudmivad icv-

leba, mudmivad swavlbs, Tu ro-

gori unda iyos axal ampluaSi.

erTi Tvis win ufro agresiuli

iyo, dRes gacilebiT Riaa, erTi

Tvis win SedarebiT nakleb sa-

kiTxebze hqonda pozicia, dRes

ukve es maCvenebeli gazrdilia.

ase rom, biznesmeni nel-nela ir-

gebs politikosis imijs da al-

baT, mis poziciebis Camoyalibe-

basTan dakavSirebT, Zalian bev-

ri siaxle gvelodeba. marTalia,

biZina ivaniSvili politikaSi

moumzadebeli Semovida, magram

is yvela sakiTxs racionalurad

udgeba da uars ar ambobs iswav-

los, es ki qarTul politikaSi

namdvilad didi iSviaTobaa.

_ sofel WorvilaSi maswav-

leblebma ivaniSvilis moqalaqe-

obis aRdgenasTan dakavSirebiT,

xelmowerebis Segroveba da-

iwyes. maT ukve SeuerTdnen sa-

zogadobis warmomadgenlebic:

momRerlebi, msaxiobebi. vrcel-

deba informaciac, rom Tavad sa-

akaSvils, misi gundis wevrebic

urCeven, biznesmens daubrunos

moqalaqeoba. Tqveni azriT, xe-

lisufleba wava am daTmobaze?

_ gaaCnia sasworis meore

mxareze ra ideba. xelisufleba

Tu dainaxavs, rom safrTxe emuq-

reba, moqalaqeobas daubrunebs.

im SemTxvevaSi Tu mTavrobis

bed-iRbali ar Seicvleba, cxa-

dia, daTmobaze ar wava da uaris

mTqmelad darCeba.

_ Tqveni azriT, rogor ajo-

bebs xelisuflebisTvis wavides

daTmobaze da daubrunos moqa-

laqeoba Tu ara?

_ mgonia, saakaSvili ivaniS-

vils moqalaqeobas aRar daub-

runebs da ecdeba procesi maq-

simalurad gawelos, raTa ufro

bevri berketi CarTos politi-

kur brZolaSi.

_ SesaZlebelia Tu ara, vi-

Tareba revoluciur procesebSi

gadaizardos?

_ sruliad SesaZlebelia,

ivaniSvilis winaaRmdegobis miu-

xedavad. mas ar surs viTarebis

daZabva da revoluciur proce-

samde misvla. ar gamovricxav

revoluciuri scenaris ganviTa-

rebis iniciatori Tavad xeli-

sufleba iyos. amisaTvis dasaS-

vebia, nacmoZraobam ivaniSvilis

gundSi Canergos admianebi rom-

lebic procesebis revoluciuri

meTodebiT ganviTarebaze imuSa-

veben. mosaxleoba Tu quCeSi ga-

movida wesrigis damyarebis au-

cileblobiT, mmarTveli gundi

Zalas gamoiyenebs. Semdeg ki sx-

va radikalurad ganwyobili op-

ozicioneris msgavsad, ivaniSvi-

lsac miakereben rusul iarl-

iys. Tu rogor ganviTardeba

movlenebi mxolod, sazogadoe-

baze araa damokidebuli, ganm-

sazRvreli iqneba, ra strategi-

as airCevs xeliseufleba.

_ preskonferenciidan gamoC-

nda, rom Tu ivaniSvils moqala-

qeobas ar daubruneben, mzadaa,

sakuTari ndobiT aRWurvili pi-

ri Cauyenos saTaveSi politkur

partias. am formiT ra Sansebi

aqvs biZina ivaniSvils?

_ ra Tqma unda, Sansebi kle-

bulobs, radgan politikuri

persona qarTveli amomrCevlisT-

vis Zalian mniSvnelovania. xeli-

suflebas sakmaod saTanado da

didi resursebi gaaCnia imisTvis,

rom dafiqrdes, gaanalizos si-

tuacia ukan daxios, sadac saWi-

roa da sabolood gamarjvebas

miaRwios. 2009 wlis aprilis

movlenebisas swored ase moiqca.

aqamde Tu xelisufleba impul-

surad da emociurad moqmedebda,

situacias dawynarebs da Seimu-

Savebs sxva strategias. maT Se-

uZliaT Tavi daanebon ruseTis

TemiT spekulirebas, putinis

proeqtobas da Semoagdon sul

sxva gegma, magaliTisTvis: viTom

biZina ivaSvili saakaSvilis

proeqtia.

_ ras moigebs amiT saakaSvi-

li?

_ amiT SeuZlia opoziciu-

rad ganwyobili sazogadoeba,

romelic Tavis molodinebs bi-

Zina ivaniSvilTan akavSirebs Ca-

moacilos im motiviT, rom Se-

sakrebTa gadanacvlebiT ubra-

lod, situacia ar icvleba. xe-

lisuflebas am kondiciamde mis-

vla Zaliam martivad SeuZlia

yovelgvari Tofisa da joxis

gamoyenebis gareSe. amitom sau-

bari TiTqos xelisuflebam yve-

lanairi resursi amowura, naad-

revia.

_ miuxedavad imisa, rom iva-

niSvils aqamde ar Seuqmnia par-

tia, ar gamoucxadebia samoqmedo

gegma, sazogadoebis mxridan mainc

didi mxardaWeriT sargeblobs.

Tqveni azriT, ra aris mizezi, ara

mgonia ganmsazRvreli mxolod

qvelmoqmedeba yofiliyo?

_ qvelmoqmedeba ivaniSvilis-

Tvis piaris Semadgenel kompo-

nentad iqca. mosaxleobas SesaZ-

lebloba mieca ivaniSvilis pi-

rovnebaze garkveuli warmodgena

Seqmnoda. adamiani, romelic qar-

Tvel fenomenebs ki ar ebrZvis,

piriqiT, xels uwyobs. faqtob-

rivad, amiT saakaSvilis antipo-

di gamovida. xelisuflebas Sec-

domebi rom ar daeSva sakadro

cvlilebebis dros, erovnuli

Rirebulebebis SenarCunebaSi,

mSvidobianobaSi, teritoriuli

mTlianobis sakiTxTan dakavSi-

rebiT, sazogadoebis mxridan

aseTi reaqcia ar iqneboda. dRes

ivaniSvilze gaCnda molodini,

rom is daicavs saqarTvelos da

qarTvelebs.

_ ivaniSvili apirebs Camoaya-

libos samoqalaqo moZraoba

,,qarTuli ocneba~ razea damoki-

debuli maTi warmateba?

_ simarTle giTxraT, gauge-

baria, biZina ivaniSvili ratom

ayalibes msgavi tipis moZraobas.

misi mxridan es nabiji moumza-

deblad meCveneba. sazogadoebri-

vi moZraoba stiqiurad isedac

Seiqmna. ,,qarTu bankis~ win Sek-

rebili adamianebi amis naTeli

magalia. ufro saintereso iqne-

boda ivaniSvils Sesabamisi nabi-

jebi stiqiurad ganwyobili sa-

zogadoebis SesanarCuneblad ga-

daedga. moZraobaSi gasawevria-

neblad xalxi sxvadasxva moti-

viT miva. zogs miliarderis ji-

besTan miaxloba moundeba, nawi-

li xelisuflebis davalebiT,

ase rom ivaniSvils sazogadoeb-

rivi moZraoba sakmao proble-

mebs Seuqmnis.

_ ivaniSvili did imedebs am-

yarebs arCevnebe. Tqveni azriT,

ra Sansebi aqvs, roca saakaSvi-

lis gundi arevnebTan dakavSi-

rebul piarsa da politteqno-

logiebs sakmaod kargad flobs?

_ am etapze Sansebze saubari

miWirs, radgan biznesmenis po-

litikaSi gamoCenis Semdeg so-

cialur gamokvlevebs ar gavcno-

bivar. CemTvis, rogorc saqarT-

velos moqalaqisTvis isic sakma-

risi iqneba, rom ivaniSvilma

mmarTvel partias umravlesobiT

mosvlis SesaZlebloba ar mis-

ces. miviRoT parlamenti sadac

ZalTa balansi 50-50 iqneba. iWi-

davon politikosebma da ase ga-

daWran problemebi. miTumtes,

premier-ministrs parlamentis

wevrebi irCeven da saintereso

iqneba, sakanonmdeblo organoSi

ra kuTxiT ganviTardeba movle-

nebi. amis miRweva biznesmens yo-

velgvari piarteqnologiebis ga-

reSec SeuZlia.

_ ra SeiZleba gaxdes arCev-

nebze ivaniSvilisTvis warmate-

bis garanti?

_ rasakvirvelia, misi imiji,

mis irgvliv gaerTianebuli sa-

zogadoebisa da politikuri Za-

lebis konsolidacia, romelic

sakmaod didi resursia da mesa-

me, rogorc Cans, ivaniSvilis

Sesaxeb erTnairi poziciebi aqvs

aSS da ruseTs. ruseTs rogorc

Cvevia, maincdamainc ar qirqi-

lebs iaSvilis figuraze, rusu-

li media aSuqebs, magram neitra-

lurad da maTi pozicia gasage-

bia. ivaniSvilis xelisuflebaSi

mosvlis SemTxvevaSi ruseTs eq-

neba qarTul mTavrobasTan mo-

laparakebis SesaZlebloba dRe-

vandeli xelisuflebis pirobeb-

Si es SeuZlebelia. medvedevs

saqarTvelos mTavrobTan mola-

parakebebis dawyeba ukve sWirde-

ba imisTvis, rom evropuli do-

nis qveyanad iqces.

_ Tqveni azriT, ivaniSvilma

arCvenebis dros unda CarTos

mxolod ucxoeli piarteqnolo-

giebis mcodne adamianebi, mxo-

lod qarTveli Tu orive er-

Tad?

_ Tu mxolod ucxoel spe-

cialists aiyvans is Tavis qvey-

nis gamocdilebas SesTavazebs,

ramac saqarTveloSi, SesaZloa

ar gaamarTlos. Tu mxolod ad-

gilobriv specialists daeyrd-

noba, man SeiZleba Tanamedrove

piaarteqnologiebi ar icodes,

amitom, adgilobrivma da ucxo-

elma specialistebma erTobli-

vad unda imuSaon. am etapze ru-

sebs aqvT yvelaze saukeTeso pi-

ari. isini elcinis arevnebisas

gaiwvrTnen, roca Camoiyvanen ame-

rikeli specialistebi, romleb-

mac rus specialistebTan er-

Toblivad imuSaves da warmate-

basac miaRwies.

_ gavrcelda informacia,

rom xelisuflebam samxedro mo-

xaliseebis wvrTna daiwyo, xom

ar emzadebian qveynaSi qaosis

dawyebisaTvis?

_ analogiuri procebisTvis,

rogorc Cans, emzadebian. gavrce-

lebuli informaciiT, mzaddeba

araformaluri struqturebi,

romelTac, SesaZloa, saerTo ar

aqvT xelisuflebasTan da sazo-

gadoebaSi, ubralod, terorisa

da SiSis danergvas emsaxureba.

miranda nabaxteveli

`CemTvis, rogorc saqarTvelos moqalaqisTvisisic sakmarisi iqneba, rom ivaniSvilma

mmarTvel partias umaravlesobiT mosvlis SesaZlebloba ar misces~

8 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

ggvveessaauubbrreebbaa `̀jjiippaass~~

rreeqqttoorrii,, ffiilloossooffoossii

giorgi margvelaSvili::

__ bbaattoonnoo ggiioorrggii,, aaxxaallii

ZZaalliiss ggaammooCCeennaamm ppoolliittiikkuurr

ccxxoovvrreebbaaSSii aaxxaallii rreeaalloobbaa

SSeeqqmmnnaa.. rrooggoorr ggeessaaxxeebbaaTT mmoovv-

lleenneebbiiss SSeemmddggoommii ggaannvviiTTaarreebbaa,,

rraa ccvvlliilleebbeebbiiaa mmoossaallooddnneellii??

_ diax, marTlac axali re-

alobis winaSe aRmovCndiT, ga-

moCnda alternatiuli gravi-

taciis centri, anu Zala, ro-

melic aramxolod movlenebis

sxvagvari SefasebiT, gansxvav-

deba, aramed mas seriozuli

wona, politikuri mniSvneloba

gaaCnia. Sedegad, ori gravita-

ciuli centri Camoyalibda,

rac aqamde ar arsebobda, anu

realurad gaCnda alternativa.

es pirveli pozitivi iyo, rac

qarTul politikur sivrceSi

ivaniSvilis gamoCenas ukavSir-

deba. ufro zustad rom

vTqvaT, pozitiuria ukve is,

rom qarTul sazogadoebaSi,

maT Soris politikur sivrce-

Sic, gansxvavebuli politiku-

ri Sexedulebebis arsebobam

legitimuri xasiaTi miiRo.

samwuxarod, Cveni xeli-

suflebis azrovneba, msoflm-

xedveloba, politikuri kredo

ori centris arsebobasac ki

ewinaaRmdegeba. Sesabamisad, ma-

Ti nabijebis mimarTuleba tra-

diciulad Semdegia: maT undaT,

rom arsebobdes mxolod erTi

unitaruli, maTi politikuri

sivrce. am tendenciam, Cveni

xelisufleba avtoritarizmam-

de miiyvana da saakaSvili co-

ta ar iyos tiraniasTan gaaTa-

maSa kidec... samwuxarod, am sa-

kiTxis mimarT xelisuflebis

damokidebuleba ar Secvlila,

dRes mcdelobaa isev im unita-

rul politikur realobas da-

vubrundeT. Sesabamisad, Zneli

saTqmelia ra qmedebebs gana-

xorcieleben. magram Tu wina

wlebs gadavxedavT, TvalsaCi-

no gaxdeba, rom es sqema yo-

velTvis garedan iyo mxardaWe-

rili. kerZod, iyo es sakuTa-

ri xalxis darbeva-dapatimre-

ba, Tu arCevnebis dros motyu-

eba, nebismier SemTxvevaSi, am

yvelafers garedan hqonda Tu

ara mxardaWera, mimRebloba ma-

inc. magram, viTareba Secvli-

lia. dRes, xelisuflebis mi-

marT msgavsi mxardaWera gare-

dan ar Cans. anu aRar muSaobs

Zveli sqema, rodesac xeli-

sufleba Tavisi represiuli

manqaniT „agvarebda“ viTarebas

da Semdeg amas aravin irgvliv

ar amCnevda. aseT viTarebaSi

rogor moaxerxebs xelisuf-

leba kidev erTxel Caidinos

danaSauli kacobriobisa da

Tavisi xalxis winaSe da mo-

iqces ise, rogorc icis, ro-

gorc sCvevia? ar Cans, rom

aseTi saqcieli garedan iqneba

mxardaWerili, dRes vandalu-

ri politikis mimarT mzaobas

ver vxedav. Sesabamisad, xeli-

sufleba Cveuli sqemis gareT

darCa. amitom Zneli saTqmelia

ras moimoqmedebs igi.

__ rraass nniiSSnnaavvss 1188 eellCCiiss

ssttuummrroobbaa mmiiss kkaarrzzee,, iimmaass xxoomm

aarraa,, rroomm ddaassaavvlleellii ggaarree ZZaa-

lleebbiicc mmxxaarrss uuWWeerreenn iivvaanniiSS-

vviillss??

_ CemTvis Zneli saTqmelia

ra formiT xdeba xolme es ga-

rigebebi. saxezea faqtebi. 25

maiss sakuTari eris, qveynis,

zogadad demokratiuli prin-

cipebis winaSe danaSauli iqna

Cadenili, meore dRes ki amave

adgilas aRlumi tardeba, ra-

sac saerTaSoriso Tanamegob-

robis mxridan mSvidi Sefase-

bebi eZleva. aseTi antisaxelm-

wifoebrivi qmedebisTvis xeli-

suflebas saerTaSoriso Tana-

megobrobis mxridan mwvane Su-

qi aqvs anTebuli. ivaniSvilis

SemTxvevaSi ar vici, rogor

iqneba es sakiTxi. magram faq-

tia, rom ivaniSvils aqvs mxar-

daWera, rac legitimizirebu-

lia Tundac elCebis vizitiT.

ivaniSvili saerTaSoriso Ta-

namegobrobis mier mxardaWeri-

lia, rogorc kandidati, ro-

melTanac bandituri formiT

urTierToba daSvebuli ar

aris. amiT ar vambob TiTqos

ivaniSvili awyobs msoflios,

an saakaSvils cvlian ivaniSvi-

liT. magram is, rom ivaniS-

vils imuniteti gaaCnia saakaS-

vilis vandalizmis sapirispi-

rod, es aSkaraa.

__ 2255 mmaaiissiiss RRaammeess ddaa 2266 mmaa-

iissiiss ddiillaass ggaannvviiTTaarreebbuull mmoovv-

lleenneebbss TTqqvveenn ddeemmookkrraattiiiiss ddaa-

ssaassrruullii uuwwooddeeTT.. rraa SSeeiiZZlleebbaa

SSeeccvvaallooss aaxxaallmmaa ppoolliittiikkuurrmmaa

ZZaallaamm TTuunnddaacc ddeemmookkrraattiiuulloo-

bbiiss kkuuTTxxiiTT??

_demokratia marTlac das-

rulda maSin, roca 25 maisis

Rames rusTavelze vandalizmi

moxda, meore dRes ki am adgi-

las taS-fanduri moewyo;

mkvlelobis adgilas zeimi mo-

ewyo. ra SeiZleba moxdes ax-

la? _ yvelafers viwyebT Ta-

vidan, gvaqvs mcdeloba, kidev

erTxel davemsgavsoT civilur

saxelmwifos. ramdenad SesaZ-

lebelia Tu ara es, am etapze

Zneli saTqmelia, es nel-nela

gamoikveTeba. jerjerobiT iva-

niSvilis politikuri saxe ik-

veTeba, rogorc uaRresad ra-

cionaluri, gawonasworebuli

politikuri lideris. es da-

mokidebulia imaze, samomav-

lod misi politikuri qmede-

bebi ramdenad iqneba mimarTu-

li Tanamedrove liberalur-

demokratiuli saxelmwifos

mSeneblobisken. misi ritorika

imedismomcemia, anu ritorikis,

Rirebulebebis doneze, racio-

nalizmis xarisxis gaTvalis-

winebiT, ivaniSvili dadebiTi

figuraa. magram realurad ra

moxdeba Zneli saTqmelia.

_TTuummccaa,, mmaass ggaannssxxvvaavveebbiiTT

ppaattaarrkkaacciiSSvviilliissggaann ssttrruuqqttuu-

rraa CCaammoouuyyaalliibbeebbeellii aaqqvvss.. rraamm-

ddeennaadd iimmooqqmmeeddeebbss eess mmiissii ggeegg-

mmiiss ssiissrruulleeSSii mmooyyvvaannaazzee??

_ patarkaciSvilis da iva-

niSvilis Sedareba yovelTvis

xelovnuri mgonia. patarkaciS-

vili ivaniSvilisgan gansxvave-

biT TviTon ar iyo politiku-

ri lideri. patarkaciSvili

iyo politikuri procesis mas-

timulirebeli. patarkaciS-

vils hqonda garkveuli poli-

tikuri resursebi, romelic

gamoixateboda mis kontaqteb-

Si, finansur resursSi, media-

saSualebebSi. ivaniSvilma, dR-

es, Tavisi politikuri ganvi-

Tarebis am etapze, politiku-

rad sul sxva realoba fulis,

media-resursis gareSe Seqmna.

mas, garda Tavisi pirovnebisa,

jer sxva araferi CaurTia am

procesSi. bunebrivia, xeli-

suflebac Zalian daexmara Ta-

visi ugunuri qmedebebiT. pa-

tarkaciSvilis dros sxva sqe-

ma moqmedebda, iyo ufro Zli-

eri opozicia. ivaniSvili ub-

ralod gamoCnda da man Tqva,

rom is aris alternativa da

mxolod amis deklarirebiT

Seqmna alternatiuli realo-

ba; yvela danarCenma am alter-

natiuli gravitaciuli velis

garSemo triali daiwyo. anu

ivaniSvili Tavisi pirovnebiT

zemoqmedebs procesebze, pa-

tarkaciSvili ki procesze ze-

moqmedebda resursebiT. jerje-

robiT ar gamoCenila ivaniSvi-

lis arc finansuri da arc

sxva resursi, magram vxedavT,

rom realoba ukve Secvlila.

Tu ivaniSvili warmatebiT ga-

arTmevs Tavs Semdgom etapebs

_ struqturebis Seqmnas, mis

Sesabamis aRWurvas, mediis sa-

kiTxis gadawvetas, mas buneb-

rivia seriozuli warmatebis

giorgi margvelaSvili:giorgi margvelaSvili: ìvaniSvilisgansakuTrebiT didi pliusi isaa,

rom igi bevrad ufro gawonasworebulia,

vidre nebismieri politikuri

lideri


internetSi

www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zze

9#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w. saerTo gazeTi

winapiroba gaaCnia, radgan dRes

igi politikurad ukve warma-

tebulia.

__ ssaazzooggaaddooeebbaass ggaassaammaarrjjvveebb-

llaadd iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss 55 mmiilliiaarrddiiss

iimmeeddii aaqqvvss.. TTuummccaa,, nnaakklleebbii mmii-

lliiaarrddeebbii aarrcc mmiiss mmTTaavvaarr ooppoo-

nneennttss xxeelliissuufflleebbaass aaqqvvss..

_ finansuri resursi, cxa-

dia, aris faqtori, magram Zne-

lia Tqva, ra rols TamaSobs

igi politikur pocesSi. poli-

tikuri warmatebis formula

bevri faqtorisgan Sedgeba.

pirvel rigSi es aris xalxi.

ramdenad daCagrulni, datero-

rebulnic ar unda viyoT, xeli-

suflebas gaazrebuli aqvs, rom

xalxis azri mniSvnelovania.

amitomac amuSavebs igi ase in-

tensiurad ideologiur manqa-

nas televiziebis saxiT. swo-

red amitomac yovelTvis cdi-

lobs garkveuli tipis piar-

kampaniis Catarebas politikuri

opoziciis mimarT. am Tvalsaz-

risiT xelisufleba mkveTr mi-

nusebSia ivaniSvilTan. imitom,

rom xelisuflebis mxares aris

8-wliani kompromatebis tomebi

_ cemis, Cagvris, zombirebis,

omis wagebis, gaRatakebis da

a.S. sxvaTaSoris, xelisufle-

bis Secdoma isicaa, rom Tuki

dadebiTi ram gaukeTebiaT, esec

mxolod iZulebis formiT. iva-

niSvilis mxares aris martivad

_ qvelmoqmedeba. meore _ Tu

xelisufleba mCagvrelia da

xalxs eubneba _ saxlSi Cumad

ijeqiT da rusul musikas nu

mousmenT, iazrovneT modelire-

buli realobis formiTo, am

dros modis ivaniSvili da ge-

ubneba _ iyavi Tavisufali ada-

miani da iazrovne rogorc gin-

dao. Semdegi momentia _ saer-

TaSoriso mxardaWera, rac ar-

CevnebSi erT-erTi ganmsazRvre-

li faqtoria. Tuki adre gveub-

nebodnen ki, batono iyos nomi-

nalurad opozicia, magram Tuki

vinme realurad Tavs wamoswevs

TavSi Caartyi da Cven gagipra-

vebTo, es faqtori ivaniSvil-

Tan mimarTebaSi moxsnilia da

rogorc minimum ivaniSvils da

xelisuflebas Tanabari pirobe-

bis moedani aqvT micemuli.

__ ssaauubbrriissaass TTqqvveenn aaxxsseenneeTT,,

rroomm bbiiZZiinnaa iivvaanniiSSvviillss iimmuunniittee-

ttii aaqqvvss.. rrooggoorrcc ccnnoobbiilliiaa iiggii

xxeelliissuufflleebbiiss SSeeccvvlliiss mmoommxxrree

mmxxoolloodd aarrCCeevvnneebbiiss ggzziiTTaaaa,, rraacc

eerrTT wweelliiwwaaddSSii uunnddaa ggaaiimmaarr-

TTooss.. rrooggoorr ffiiqqrroobbTT,, rraammddeennaadd

ggaahhyyvveebbaa eess iimmuunniitteettii iivvaanniiSS-

vviillss aarrCCeevvnneebbaammddee??

_ ramdenad gahyveba ivaniS-

vils arCevnebamde imuniteti,

CemTvis amis Tqma Znelia Tumca,

ivaniSvili iqceva rogorc uaR-

resad kanonmorCili adamiani,

igi jerjerobiT xelisuflebas

aranairi agresiis safuZvels ar

aZlevs. ivaniSvilis gansakuT-

rebiT didi pliusia is, rom

igi bvrad ufro gawonaswore-

bulia, vidre nebismieri, saSua-

lo statistikuri qarTveli

politikuri lideri. simSvide,

rac ivaniSvils gaaCnia, yu-

radRebismimqcevia. rodesac mas

pirdapir Seuracxyofas ayeneben

patara, ubedur dReSi Cagdebu-

li, daqiravebuli Jurnaliste-

bi, kerZod, ekiTxebian _ aris

Tu ara igi kremlis bolo ime-

di? _ igi RimiliT pasuxobs da

eubneba _ nu RelavT, yvelafe-

ri kargad iqneba, me vxvdebi

Tqven ra mZime dReSi xarTo.

aseTi tipis adamianis wyobidan

gamoyvana, misi strategiuli

xazis Secvla ar iqneba advili.

miTumetes, im gacveTili meTo-

debiT, rac albaT, ivaniSvilis-

Tvis ukve kargad nacnobia.

__ xxeelliissuufflleebbaa SSeeiiZZlleebbaa

ssuusstt qqmmeeddeebbeebbss aaxxoorrcciieelleebbss,,

TTuummccaa aamm mmTTaavvaarrii ooppoonneennttiiss

uuyyuurraaddRReebboodd mmiittoovveebbaa aarr RRiirrss..

ddRReess aarraavviiss aaqqvvss iilluuzziiaa,, rroomm

xxeelliissuufflleebbaass ssZZiinnaavvss ddaa iiggii

iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss ssaawwiinnaaaaRRmmddeeggoodd mmii-

mmaarrTTuull nnaabbiijjeebbss aarr ggaaddaaddggaammss..

rrooggoorr ffiiqqrroobbTT,, kkiiddeevv rraa kkoonn-

ttrrddaarrttyymmeebbii SSeeiiZZlleebbaa mmiiaayyeennooss

xxeelliissuufflleebbaamm iivvaanniiSSvviillss??

_ ra Tqma unda kmayofileba

imiT, rom ivaniSvilisTvis xe-

lisuflebis mier ganxorciele-

buli Setevebi jerjerobiT

mxolod momgebiani da ara wam-

gebiani xiblia. SesaZloa isic,

rom kidev erTxel Sedges is

garigebebi, da viRacam saakaS-

vils ufleba misces ivaniSvils

ise moeqces, rogorc Cveuleb-

riv qarTvels da ganaxorcie-

lon mis mimarT Cveuli tero-

ri. ar vici sad da rogor dge-

ba es SeTanxmeba, es Zneli saT-

qmelia. magram aq, am frontze,

qarTul realobaSi ivaniSvili

Secdomas ar uSvebs.

Tamar SveliZe

manana berikaSvili,, rreeJJiissoorrii:: usamar-

Tloba imdenad Zneli mosaTmenia, rom SiSsac

ki Zlevs. me piradad aRSfoTebuli var imis

gamo, rom biZina

ivaniSvils Camoar-

Tves moqalaqeoba.

aRSfoTebuli var,

rac moxda misi

bankis winaaRmdeg

da minda e.w. inte-

ligenciis saxe-

liT, rogorc dR-

es gveZaxian, rome-

lic Turme moqr-

Tama ivaniSvilma,

ganvacxado, rom

batonma biZinam er-

is saukeTeso nawili Tavis droze gadaarCina

da yvelafers daarqvan Tavisi saxeli. cota

koreqtulebi iyvnen TavianT gamonaTqvamebSi.

me ar var politologi, var xelovani da

vTvli rom Cemi saTqmeli SemoqmedebaSi unda

vTqva da ara raRac mosazrebebSi, radgan Se-

iZleba raime SemeSalos. Cems qveyanaSi ise gan-

viTarda movlenebi, bevri rame aRar momwonda,

gansakuTrebiT 2008 wlis mere, magram piki am

movlenebisa aris dRevandeli dRe. me pira-

dad saerTod gacruebuli

mqonda imedi poziciazec da opo-

ziciazec. magram gaCnda imedi, ra-

dgan biZina ivaniSvilma ganacxada,

davamTavroT es quCis aqciebi da mi-

tingebi. batoni aris Zalian kargi ada-

miani, kargi biznesmeni, qvelmoqmedi da

xom maqvs ufleba, damacado,

raTa gavigo, rogori po-

litikosi iqneba da gava-

keTo Cemi arCevani. ra

aucilebelia CamoarTva

moqalaqeoba, Tavs daesxa

banks, iaraRi waarTva

dacvas, ratom xdeba es?.

CemTvis yvela adamiani

Zvirfasia, imisda miuxeda-

vad sad dgas. aRar SemiZlia

es dapirispireba da Worebi.

xom SeiZleba ar gavlanZRoT, ar mivayenoT Se-

uracxyofa adamians. wynarad amixseniT da da-

mimtkiceT, ratom aris ruseTis agenti.maSin

mec agenti gamovdivar, ruseTSi vswavlobdi

da Zalian bevri megobaric myavs iq.

biZina ivaniSvilis mosvla politikaSi

aris Zalian principuli, marTali, patiosani

adamianis mosvla, romelic Zalian waadgeba

rogorc politikur speqtrs da sazogadoebas,

aseve xelisuflebasac, romelsac es Tvisebebi

namdvilad aklia.

saintereso iyo gamogekiTxaT adamianebi,

romelTac „qarTuSi“ SehqondaT fuli. es xom

iyo Cveulebrivi sazogadoebis warmomadgenle-

bi da ara is xalxi, visac ivaniSvili xelfass

uxdida.

me ar maqvs safuZveli, ar davujero baton

biZinas, Tu ratom modis politikaSi. qveyanas

rom Svela sWirdeba, vinmes eWvi epareba? ra-

tom unda SevboWoT adamiani, romelsac Zali-

an bevri kargi saqme aqvs gakeTebuli am qvey-

nisTvis, gadadgas es nabiji da davinaxoT, ris

gakeTebas apirebs.

daviT usufaSvili: biZina ivaniSvilma

Tavisi pirveli preskonferenciiT, sazogadoe-

bas Tavi gaacno, rogorc Zalian Cveulebrivma

da saqveyno saqmeebze dafiqrebulma adamianma

da ara _ mesiam,

romelsac yvela

kiTxvaze pasuxi

aqvs da yvela

problemis mog-

varebis pirobas

iZleva.

vfiqrob, mo-

lodini gaamarT-

la, radgan dat-

virTuli iyo

yvela SesaZlo

da araSesaZlo

komponentebiT; aq vnaxeT seriozuli warmod-

gena im TvalsazrisiT, rom Jurnalistebis er-

Ti nawili misuli iyo Tavisi saTqmelis saT-

qmelad da ara _ pasuxebis mosasmenad. es sru-

liad aSkara da TvalSisacemi iyo. ar mgonia,

rom am taqtikam gaamarTla da am gziT moxer-

xda biZina ivaniSvilis portretis gaubralo-

eba. piriqiT, is sakmaod mSvidad Sexvda am yve-

lafers.

ivaniSvilma ramdenjerme mianiSna, rom ori-

entirebulia kompetenturi gundis Seqmnaze,

anu wesierebiT da moraluri kriteriumebiT

SerCeuli gundis imedad akeTebs im gancxade-

bebs, rasac akeTebs da ara mxolod piradi in-

teleqtualuri Tu finansuri resursis kva-

lobaze.

misi myari pozicia xelisuflebis arCevne-

bis gziT Secvlis Sesaxeb aris Zalian mniSv-

nelovani, raTa xelisuflebam ver moaxerxos

cnobili da nacadi strategiiT saqmis warmar-

Tva, TiTqos, qarTul opoziciaSi mxolod re-

voluciaze orientirebuli marginalebi arian.

maia jabua,, mmoommRReerraallii:: momRerlebma,

uamravma ansamblma gavaprotesteT xelisuf-

lebis qmedeba ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg. zogier-

Ti nawyenic ki darCa, rom ver moaxerxa Tavi-

anTi xelmoweris dafiqsireba. xelovnebis war-

momadgenlebi Tavad iCenen inicia-

tivas, rom CaerTon am protest-

Si.

sazogadoeba gamococxlebulia,

man gadaabija SiSs, radgan yvelafers

aqvs zRvari- SiSsac, moTmenasac

da dumilsac. gaCnda ime-

di da rwmena xalxSi.

am admianma moaxrxa

ndobis Zalian male

mopoveba adamianebSi.

xalxma icis mis mier

gakeTebuli saqvelmoqme-

do saqmeebis Sesaxeb. Tum-

ca didi finansebi yovelT-

vis yvelafers ar wyvets.

finansebi sxvebsac aqvT, mag-

ram survili ar aqvT, amdeni

sikeTe akeTon ase uangarod da CrdilSi dgo-

miT. CemSi yovelTvis aRtacebas iwvevda aseTi

adamianebi. albaT misi gakeTebuli saqmeebi

aris safuZveli im didi ndobisa, rac mas xal-

xma gamoucxada. rac Seexeba bankTan damdgar

rigebs, es aris is solidaroba, rac aqamomde

gvaklda Cven.

sxva aris roca

adamianebi midian

mitingze, magram

rodesac sazoga-

doeba usamarT-

lobas upiris-

pirdeba ase so-

lidarulad, es

aris win gadadg-

muli nabiji sa-

zogadoebis gan-

viTarebaSi.

albaT adamia-

nebi, romlebic dRes Tavs ikaveben TavianTi

poziciis dafiqsirebisgan, im dros elodebi-

an, roca kargad gairkveva situacia da vis

mxares aris warmateba. es dro rom dadgeba,

SeiZleba mere erTmaneTs daaswron sityvis

Tqma.

me ar var is adamiani, romelic Zalian

swrafad iRebs gadawyvetilebas. yvela detals

da wvrilmans vaqcev yuradRebas. aranairi Se-

xeba ar mqonia baton biZinasTan, ar vekuTvni

maT, visac xelfass uxdida. Sesabamisad arana-

iri valdebuleba da davaleba mis mimarT ar

malaparakebs. ubralod, vakvirdebi am admians

da vTvli, rom rogorc momRerlisTvis ar

aris sakmarisi kargi xma da smena da arsebobs

uamravi komponenti, romelic aucilebelia xe-

lovanisTvis, isea politikosic. am adamians ki

gaaCnia uamravi iseTi Tviseba, rac saWiroa,

rom iyos kargi, warmatebuli politikosi.

Tu davacdiT am admaians, is ityvis Tavis saT-

qmels. tel

eNE

WS

tel

eNE

WS

tel

eNE

WS

tel

eNE

WS

tel

eNE

WS

tel

eNE

WS

tel

eNE

WS

tel

eNE

WS

tel

eNE

WS

tel

eNE

WS

10 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

amas winaT erTi uxvtira-

Jiani da `neitraluri~ gaze-

Tis TanamSromelma, axalgazr-

da qalbatonma Tqva _ marTa-

lia, me politeqnikuri davam-

Tavre, magram dRes Jurnalis-

ti var. Cemi naSromebiT Jur-

nalistikis fakultetis stu-

dentebs aswavlian, rogorc

qarTuli Jurnalistikis sau-

keTeso nimuSebso...

marTlacda, sad imuSaos im

qalbatonma? teqnikuri dar-

gis specialistebisTvis sa-

qarTveloSi samuSao ar aris,

samagierod, arsebobs media,

romelic yvelas da yvela-

fers itevs...

* * *

im avadsaxsenebeli `varde-

bis revoluciis~ Semdeg xe-

lisuflebaSi axalgazrdebi

movidnen. umaRlesi, sakanonm-

deblo da aRmasrulebeli xe-

lisuflebis berketebi mTli-

anad gadavida axali Taobis

xelSi. mediac gaTavisuflda

komunisturi marwuxebisgan da

laRad gaSala frTebi, revo-

luciuri talRiT mogvrili

siamovnebisgan SvebiT amoisun-

Tqa...

saocrebebs da ucnauro-

bebs ra gamolevs saqarTvelo-

Si, magram saintereso mainc

is aris, ras erCian Jurnalis-

tebi ivaniSvils?

mokled, rac im dRes biz-

nescentrSi moxda, yvelam sa-

kuTari TvaliT naxa.

ra moxda, kolegebo, Tuki

namdvili Jurnalistebi, anu

miukerZoeblebi da damouki-

deblebi xarT, axali politi-

kuri moTamaSis gamoCenam

Tqven ratom dagafrTxoT da

dagaSinaT ase, guli yelSi

rom gqondaT mobjenili da

rom xtunavdiT, Tqvenc es

mTavroba xom ara xarT, safr-

Txe rom danaxeT alternati-

uli Zalis gamoCenisas?

bedma dagvifaros da, zogi

faruli da zogi aSkara mi-

Sistebi xom ar iyaviT im

dRes iq Tavmoyrili? arada,

Jurnalisti rom aravis momx-

re ar unda iyos?

ki, opoziciam dakarga qal-

wuloba miSasTan, magram qar-

Tuli Jurnalistikac xom ar

gminavs, netav, miSas buduar-

Si?

im darbazSi im dRes, sxva-

Ta Soris, TiTo-orola medi-

ajgufi iyo, romelic neitra-

lurad, damkvirveblis Tva-

liT uyurebda ivaniSvils.

`mtrebi~ meti iyvnen. ra aris

es? lustracia?

Tu Jurnalistebi iq imi-

tom iyvnen, rom xalxisTvis

miewodebinaT informacia,

xalxma veraferi gaigo ivaniS-

vilisgan, radgan xelCarTul

Cxubs, kinklaobas da JiJil-

xivils Tavi ver daaRwies da

`gamocda~, romelic TiTqos

ivaniSvilisTvis unda Caeta-

rebinaT, Jurnalistebma ver

Caabares...

araa ivaniSvilSi saqme, da-

vaneboT Tavi konkretul pi-

rebs _ 1 noembers ivaniSvils

rom etitinebodiT, gamodiT

erTi, ramdeni gaubedavT saa-

kaSvils erT Tamam SekiTxvas

mainc...

* * *

erTi 88 wlis loginad Ca-

vardnili kaci gvirekavs re-

daqciaSi yoveldRe. batoni

vaJa, romelic veraze, yofili

belinskis quCaze cxovrobs,

yovel darekvaze wuxs, unda

avdge da samarTali gavark-

vioo. geRimebaT, Tqven, baton

vaJaze, ara? im adamians guli

miuwevs simarTlis gasarkve-

vad da visac SeuZlia amis ga-

keTeba, isini miSas dakrulze

cekvaven.

zogierTi Jurnalisti

`vardebis revoluciis~ dide-

bulad dagvirgvinebis Semdeg

`redisonSi~ gamarTuli gran-

diozuli `samaRariCo~ suf-

ridan `revoluciaSi~ monawi-

leobisTvis cincxali `nive-

biT~ dasaCuqrebuli dabrune-

bula saxlSi. aba, amis mere

rogor SeiZleba miSas

`mters~ yelSi ar ece gamosa-

Radravad. miT umetes es mte-

ri da mowinaaRmdege saqarTve-

los `damaqcevari~, `qvewarma-

vali~ biZina ivaniSvili Tua?!

xalxo, is mainc ar gagigo-

niaT, `gvelsa xvreliT amoiy-

vans ena tkbilad moubario~?

Cemi istoriis maswavlebe-

li, araCveulebrivad enamosw-

rebuli, cxonebuli karlo

mamalaZe am andazas aseTi

interpretaciiT ambobda: `gv-

elsa xvreliT amoiyvans joxi

SeCxikinebulio~. ra joxiT

da mikrofoniT misdevT am

adamians, Tu aseTi vaJkacebi

iyaviT, ìmedSi~ rom scemes,

begves da dawamles Jurnalis-

tebi Tqveni Sefebis Tqvenna-

irma xelqveiTebma, maSin ra-

tom ar amoiReT xma da ase

erTbaSad ratom ar SeutieT

Tqveni kolegebisa da saer-

Tod, marTali sityvis damTr-

gunvelebs.

simarTle isaa, rom krizi-

si qarTul JurnalistikaSi,

romelze saubaric, ratomRac

momakvdinebel codvad iTvle-

ba, 2003 wlidan ar dawyebu-

la. ra memkvidreobac miiRo

qarTulma mediam, imas verafe-

ri miumata, piriqiT, ufro ga-

acamtvera da miwasTan gaaswo-

ra Jurnalistis saxeli.

I arxis TanamSromelma

axalgazrda Jurnalistma rom

erT momitinges sastikad sce-

ma, xelisuflebam daawinaura

da I arxidan SedarebiT usaf-

rTxo da Tbil adgilas gada-

iyvana.

mTavari kanoni, rasac Jur-

nalistma arasdros unda uRa-

latos _ ar unda gaxdes vin-

mes mexotbe, arc aSkara da

arc faruli mxardamWeri.

amiT is informaciis obieqtu-

robas did zians ayenebs.

simarTle unda vTqva: 1 no-

embers biZina ivaniSvilma moa-

xerxa srulad warmoeCina qar-

Tuli Jurnalistikis gaRata-

kebuli da ubadruki saxe...

Jurnalistika, anu meoTxe

xelisufleba dRes Zalad ga-

ficxebul-gawiwmatebuli nino

gomarTelia, romelsac dava-

leba aqvs Sesasrulebeli,

qarTuli Jurnalistika dRes

aris lika beraia, romelic

mikrofons malavs qvedatanis

qveS, raTa ar waarTvan da me-

re gauazrebeli, meqanikuri

SekiTxvebi dasvas...

qarTuli Jurnalistika

aris gamomcemloba `samSoblo-

dan~ mujlugunebiT gamoyrili

JurnalistTa mTeli wyeba,

romlebic ignorirebulni da

ugulebelyofilni arian...

me var Jurnalisti...

magram me ar var `meoTxe~...

vxedav da vwer, rom dang-

reulia qveyana, ispoba ena,

sarwmunoeba, xelidan gvecle-

ba samSoblo. da me, rogorc

Jurnalisti, var meoTxe xe-

lisufleba?..

* * *

axlaxan wavikiTxe Jurna-

li `tabula~, romelic inte-

ligents warsulis gadmonaS-

Tad miiCnevs da TiTqmis an-

tikvarad Tvlis. didi eWvi

maqvs, qarTuli mediis umete-

si nawilic ase fiqrobs.

inteligenti aris, sxvaTa

Soris, TviTon Jurnalisti,

magram, rogorc ivaniSvilis

biznes-centrSi kidev erTxel

damtkicda, samwuxarod, qarT-

velma Jurnalistebma jer ar

ician, rom ar arian arc yaCa-

Rebi, arc CamSvebebi, arc Sss-

s pagoniani jaSuSebi, aramed

arian, pirvel rigSi, inteli-

gentebi...

Tumca maT jer ar ician

amis Sesaxeb...

arc uTxraT, daumaleT,

jerjerobiT, Torem, visac

sindisi kidev SerCa, Zalian

Sercxveba...

sindisze gamaxsenda, saqar-

TveloSi, netavi, ramdeni

Jurnalisti ityvis, rom mis

profesiaSi es gasacodavebu-

li sindisi saWiro aris?

albaT, Zalian cota da

vinc ityvis, isic ar iqneba

agulwrfeli...

* * *

rogorc SevityveT, male

biZina ivaniSvili samoqalaqo

moZraobas Seqmnis, arCevnebam-

de ki jer kidev droa, nac-

moZraobas odnav patara dis-

komforti ki Seeqmna ivaniSvi-

lis gamocxadebiT, magram, di-

dad ar Sewuxebulan, rogorc

etyoba, nacebi kidev karga

xans ibogineben... saxelisuf-

lebo kastad Camoyalibebul

Jurnalistebsac Tavisufle-

bis sio kidev didxans ar da-

ufrTxobs simSvides da dema-

gogiis sazRvaric kvlav

usazRvro darCeba maTTvis. ma-

Ti zRapari aq ar mTavrdeba,

rogorc ivaniSvilis prescen-

tris xelmZRvanelis irakli

tripolskis cxonebuli mama

iakob tripolski amTavrebda

xolme I arxze saRamos zRap-

ris moyolas: `mSvid Zils

gisurvebT, Cemo patara gogo-

cuneboo~!...

simSvides gisurvebT, je-

rjerobiT...

iranda kalandaZe

`meoTxe~, anu gvelsaxvreliT amoiyvans

joxi SeCxikinebuli...


internetSi

www.saertogazeti.netSemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-zze

11saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

paarizi. baank `̀rosiiski kreditis~

daamaaaarsebeli daa mflobeli boris

ivaaniSvili erT-eerTi yvelaaze idumaa-

lebiT moculi mewaarmeaa ruseTSi. igi

praaqtikulaad aar monaawileobdaa saajaa-

ro RonisZiebebSi, aaraasodes miuciaa

interviu.

raas saaqmiaanobdaa ivaaniSvili gaareSe

Tvaals miRmaa?

qonebaas aagrovebdaa.

aaxlaaxaan Jurnaalmaa `̀forbsmaa~ misi

qonebaa 2,6 miliaard dolaaraad Seaafaa-

saa; Tumcaa Taavaad ivaaniSvilis sityve-

biT Tu vimsjelebT, `̀roskreditis~

mepaatrone 5 miliaardze meti Rirs.

SaarSaan mis bizness gaardaamtexi xaanaa

daaudgaa. msxvili saamrewvelo aaqtive-

bis _ stoilenskisaa daa mixaailovskis

saamTo-ggaamaamdidrebeli kombinaatebis

gaayidviT 2 miliaarze meti iSovaa. es

sruliaad moulodneli aaRmoCndaa aaraa

maarto baazris monaawileebisTvis, aaraa-

med maaTTvisaac, vinc ivaaniSvils ic-

nobdaa. raatom moiqcaa aase, rogor aapi-

rebs miRebuli Taanxis gaankaargvaas _

aamis Sesaaxeb biZinaa ivaaniSvilmaa `̀ve-

domostis~ Taavisi cxovrebis maanZil-

ze micemul pirvel interviuSi piraa-

daad uaambo.

_ Tqven arasodes migiciaT inter-

viu da Tqveni samewarmeo sawqmiano-

bis dasawyisidanve CrdilSi yofnas

amjobinebdiT. ras ukavSirdeba aseTi

gasaidumloeba?

_ me marTlac ar var sajaro

adamiani, rac mxolod da mxolod

Cems xasiaTs ukavSirdeba. ar miyvars

JurnalistebTan Sexvedra, TavSey-

ris adgilebSi yofna. iq niRbis

morgebaa saWiro, me ki ver vitan

formalobebs. ar msurs vakeTo ise-

Ti ram, rac Cems Tavisuflebas zRu-

davs. zogadad, ar miyvars yuradRe-

bis centrSi yofna, arc dResaswau-

lebi, sakuTar dabadebis dResac ki

arasdros vixdi.

_ riTi SeiZleba avxsnaT, rom

`rosiiski krediti~ da `metaloin-

vesti~ arc ki adasturebdnen, rom es

struqturebi Tqven gekuTvniT?

_ arasodes damirRvevia kanoni da

dasamalic araferi maqvs. ubralod,

`perestroikis~ dasawyisSive, Cven

yvelani, biznesmenebi, samwuxarod,

daZabulad vcxovrobdiT imis gamo,

rom SesaZloa, Cvens bizness rame da-

muqreboda. Tuki sakuTari personiTa

da qonebiT yuradRebas ar miipyrob-

di, biznesis marTvac ufro mSvidad

SeiZleboda.

_ 90-iiani wlebis dasawyisSi ru-

seTSi marTlac daZabuli mdgomareo-

ba iyo, magram sazRvargareT yvela

biznesmeni rodi miemgzavreboda

TqvensaviT. rodis waxvediT qveynidan

da ratom?

_ ruseTidan pirvelad 1993

wels, saqarTveloSi Cemi Zmis gata-

cebis Semdeg wavedi. misTvis gamosas-

yids iTxovdnen. erTi Tve hyavdaT,

magram gamosasyidi ar gadamixdia,

radganac analogiur safrTxeSi Ca-

vagdebdi Cems mSoblebs, debs. Semd-

gomSi maTTvis xeli aravis uxlia.

CemTan ki saqarTvelodan sxvadasxva

saxelmwifo moxele Camodioda, rom-

lebic Cemi Zmis moZebnaSi daxmarebas

cdilobdnen, TanamSromlobas mTava-

zobdnen. ar msurda maTi SemoSveba

Cems biznesSi da maTTan urTierTobis

Tavidan asacileblad gadavwyvite,

formalurad banks CamovSorebodi:

ganvacxade, rom bankis prezidentis

Tanamdebobas vtovebdi, 1994 wels ki

6 TviT ojaxTan erTad axlobelTan

amerikis SeerTebul StatebSi gavem-

gzavre. saqarTvelSi viTareba ar iyo

mSvidi, TiTqos sazRvargareT ufro

SeiZleboda wynarad cxovreba; vfiq-

robdiT, Svilebis gulisTvis, maTi

momavlisTvis egeb Rirdes aqedan gam-

gzavreba. virCevdiT qveyanas, rome-

lic yvelaze metad mogvewoneboda.

safrangeTi SevarCieT, parizis siax-

loves saxli viyideT. Tumca iq mud-

mivad ar vcxovrobdiT, biznesis ga-

mo, gansakuTrebiT ki defoltis Sem-

deg, ZiriTadad moskovSi gviwevda

yofna.

_ miuxedavad amisa, safrangeTis

moqalaqeoba mainc miiReT?

_ colma da Svilebma miiRes, me _

ara, radgan es did dros wamarTmev-

da: gasaubreba da aTasi sxva ram iyo

saWiro.

_ ar nanobT, rom adre intervius

ar iZleodiT? nuTu gulgrilad

uyurebdiT imas, rasac Tqvenze werd-

nen?

_ rasakvirvelia, ara. ruseTis

masmediisgan gansxvavebiT, qarTvel

JurnalistTa mudmivi yuradRebis

centrSi viyavi. zogierTi maTgani da-

sabeWdad iyenebda masalas interneti-

dan, sadac karga xnis ganmavlobaSi

ganTavsebuli iyo TiTqosda jguf

`mostis~ usafrTxoebis samsaxuris

monacemebze dayrdnobiT Sedgenili

Cemi dosie. odesRac seriozul kon-

kurencias vuwevdiT `most-banks~,

amitomac ar iyo gasakviri, rom es

dosie `rosiiski kreditsa~ da pira-

dad Cemze aTasgvar sisuleles Sei-

cavda, Tanac es yvelaferi krimina-

luri Jargonis gamoyenebiT iwerebo-

da. dosie imdenad araseriozuli iyo,

rom igi ruseTis arc erT gazeTs ar

gamouyenebia. SevardnaZis dros qarT-

veli Jurnalistebi ganurCevlad

lanRavdnen yvelas da maT Soris mec,

amitomac maT statiebs yuradRebas

ar vaqcevdi. axali xelisuflebis

mosvlidan erT weliwadSi Cem Sesa-

xeb werilebis gamoqveyneba ganaxlda

da swored maSin pirvelad movaxdine

maTze reagireba: SarSan, noemberSi,

Cems samsaxurebs davavale gaegoT,

ras warmoadgendnen im internet-sai-

tis mflobelebi, sadac es dosie iyo


redaqciisagan: biZina ivaniSvilis in-

terviu, romelsac `saerTo gazeTis~ dRevan-

del nomerSi gTavazobT, gazeT `vedomostSi~

2005 wlis 7 aprils gamoqveynda da imTaviT-

ve sazogadoebis didi interesi gamoiwvia.

miuxedavad imisa, rom didi xnis ganmav-

lobaSi es iyo biZina ivaniSvilis erTaderTi

interviu, misi sruli teqsti qarTul enaze

ar Targmnila da ar gamoqveynebula (daibeWda

mxolod mcire fragenti).

marTalia, intervius gamoqveynebidan eqvs-

ma welma gaiara da am xnis ganmavlobaSi, cxa-

dia, bevri ram Seicvala, magram, vfiqrobT es

interviu mainc uaRresad mniSvnelovani doku-

mentia, Tundac imis dasturad, rom biZina iva-

niSvili eqvsi wlis winaTac, anu maSin, rode-

sac politikaSi mosvlas arc apirebda, imave

Rirebulebebsa da faseulobebs emsaxureboda,

romelTa damkvidrebas dRes, rogorc politi-

kosi, qarTul sinamdvileSi cdilobs.

aqve gTavazobT biZina ivaniSvilis mcire

komentars am interviusTan dakavSirebiT:

`bednieri var, rom sufTa warsuli maqvs

da garwmunebT, xelisuflebis ideologebs

TavianTi mcdelobani sikeTes ver moutans.

mudmivad iseT gvarebs atrialeben, romelic

cnobili araa saqarTvelos mosaxleobisTvis.

mudmivad cdiloben, xalxs eWvi gauCinon Cem-

ze.

erTaderT interviuSi, romelic gazeT

`vedomosts~ miveci, yvela es gvaria dasaxele-

buli da pasuxic iqvea gacemuli. es ambavi kar-

ga xania warsuls Cahbarda. Jurnalistebma ma-

Sin verc erTi Savi xazi ver mipoves. erTi Tve

ar beWdavdnen Cems intervius. ver warmoedgi-

naT, rom ruseTSi SeiZleboda aseTi kaci yo-

filiyo, Tanac qarTuli gvariT. rogorc aq ar

vCndebodi, ufro metad ar vCandi ruseTSi.

didxans elodnen Cem gamoCenas, amis Semdgom

yvela sainformacio saSualebam gaaSuqa es in-

terviu, grami eWvic ki aravis Seutania Cems

naTqvamSi, radgan interviuSi imdenad gulwr-

felad maqvs pasuxebi gacemuli, eWvis natama-

lic ki ar rCeboda.~

darwmunebuli varT, es interviu biZina

ivaniSvilis oponentebs erTxel da samudamod

daukargavs usafuZvlo braldebebis da samar-

cxvino Woraobis xasiaTs.

12 gv.

12 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

ganTavsebuli. pirvelwyaros mflobe-

lebma _ gamoZiebis federalurma sa-

agentom _ amoiRo dosie da bodiSic

moixada.

_ anu, rac iq weria, simarTle ar

aris?

_ im dosies mTavari `sensacia~ is

aris, TiTqos me oTar kvantriSvil-

Tan viyavi dakavSirebuli, yalbi avi-

zoebiT da msgavsi erToblivi saqmia-

nobiT viyaviT dakavebuli. es sruli

bodvaa. 90-iani wlebis dasawyisSi,

roca bankebis umravlesoba, maT So-

ris saxelmwifo bankebic, waleka

yalbma avizoebma (romelTa meSveobi-

Tac saxelmwifo biujetidan aTobiT

miliardi dolari moipares), didi

Zalisxmevis fasad movaxerxe, rom

`rosiiski krediti~ gamyalbebelTa

saqmianobas win aRdgomoda. Cemi banki

aRmoCnda erTaderTi, romelsac arc

erTi avizo ar gautarebia.

kvantriSvilis, benduqiZis, maRra-

Zis, seliaSvilis gundTan Cemi dakav-

Sireba aseTive bodvaa. arc erT maT-

gans ar vicnobdi. qarTvel Jurna-

listebs, romlebsac dRemde mosvene-

bas ar aZlevT kvantriSvilTan Cemi

urTierTobis eWvi, SeeZloT Caetare-

binaT arc ise rTuli Jurnalisturi

gamoZieba, daewyoT Tundac kvantriS-

vilis cnobili axloblebisgan. arc

saqarTveloSi, arc ruseTSi proble-

mas ar warmoadgens kvantriSvilis

naTesavebis, megobrebis, `rosiiski

kreditis~ TanamSromelTa moZebna.

dae, ipovon Tundac erTi mowme an

mtkicebuleba, rom piradad me an Cems

struqturebs kvantriSvilTan ioti-

sodena Sexeba mainc gvqonia! arian

iseTi qarTveli Jurnalistebi, rom-

lebic Cemze saubrisas iyeneben aseT

gamoTqmas _ `vinme ivaniSvili~, sxve-

bi weren, rom me `saorientaciod~

Tbilisis saxelmwifo universiteti

davamTavre, zogierTi Cemi gvaris

xsenebisas sxvis fotoebs beWdavs.

JurnalistTa sxva kategoria im biz-

nes-centrs, romelsac TbilisSi va-

Seneb, saroskipos uwodeben. ra aer-

TianebT maT? yvelani TiTqos uaRre-

sad aRSfoTebuli arian, rom Cemze

informaciis mopoveba uWirT. es xom

mzakvrobaa. qarTvelze, romelic da-

ibada saqarTveloSi, romelsac mSob-

lebi, uamravi naTesavi da megobari

hyavs, absoluturad yvelafris gage-

ba SeiZleba, Tanac uswrafesad. ara-

sodes mimimarTavs sasamarTlosTvis

Cemi Rirsebisa da pativis dasacavad,

radgan arasodes damikargavs arc er-

Ti, yovelTvis sindisis karnaxiT

vcxovrobdi.

àrmirebuli Slangebis

gamoSveba mindoda~

_ romeli qveynis moqlaqe xarT?

_ ruseTisa da saqarTvelosi.

_ axla sad cxovrobT?

_ momenatra saqarTvelo da erTi

wlis win ojaxTan erTad sacxovreb-

lad gadavedi im sofelSi, sadac bav-

Svoba gavatare. ojaxi CemTvis upir-

velesia. mamaCemi axlaxan gardaicva-

la, deda xanSiSesulia, mominda mis

gverdiT yofna. axali sacxovrebeli

im saxlis gverdiT avaSene, sadac

mSoblebTan erTad vcxovrobdi. vfiq-

rob, iq karga xniT davsaxldi.

_ gviambeT, ras saqmianobdiT, vid-

re `roskredits~ daafuZnebdiT?

_ me qalaq WiaTuris axlos, so-

fel WorvilaSi davibade. mamaCemi me-

Saxted muSaobda `WiaTurmarganec-

Si~, romelic, sxvaTaA Soris, axla-

xan rusulma èvrazholdingma~ iyi-

da. skolis damTavrebis Semdeg Tbi-

lisSi wavedi _ Tbilisis saxelmwi-

fo universitetSi sainJinro-ekono-

mikur fakultetze vswavlobdi, imav-

droulad kamos saxelobis samsxme-

lo-meqanikur qarxanaSi vmuSaobdi

damlageblad, damxmare muSad, Semd-

gomSi ki _ mxexavad. universiteti

warmatebiT davamTavre da samuSaod

imave qarxanaSi davrCi, oRond _ jer

ufros inJinrad, Semdeg ki Sromis

mecnieruli organizaciis laborato-

riis ufrosad. 1982 wels moskovSi

gavemgzavre Sromis samecniero-kvle-

viTi institutis aspiraturaSi sas-

wavleblad, ramdenime wlis Semdeg

davicavi disertacia specialobiT

`Sromis mecnieruli organizacia da

ekonomika~. TbilisSi samecniero-

kvleviTi institutis adgilobriv

ganyofilebaSi davbrundi. da maleve

Cemi pirveli biznesis organizeba da-

viwye.

_ rogor gagiCndaT biznesis

idea?

_ ras warmoadgenda 80-iani wle-

bis bolos ufrosi mecnier-muSaki?

arc saintereso samuSao iyo da arc

perspeqtivas uCanda piri. bina ar

mqonda, arc ojaxi, samsxmelo-meqani-

kuri qarxnis saerTo sacxovrebelSi

vcxovrobdi. rasakvirvelia, maSin az-

radac ar momsvlia, rom banks dava-

arsebdi da miliarderi gavxdebodi.

ubralod, mqonda survili, fuli me-

Sova. gadavwyvite, gamomeSva im dro-

isTvis deficituri armirebuli

Slangebi. davaregistrire koopera-

tivi, kamos saxelobis qarxanaSi Se-

noba ijariT aviRe da warmoebisTvis

mzadebas Sevudeqi. saRamoobiT Tavad

vCarxavdi saWiro detalebs, magram

Slangebis gamoSvebamde saqme ar mi-

sula _ kompiuterebiT vaWrobas mov-

kide xeli.

_ ratom maincdamainc kompiutere-

bi?

_ vaanalizebdi, savaWro sferoSi

ra iqneboda warmatebis momtani da

davaskveni _ momavali kompiuterebs

ekuTvnoda. maTze moTxovnileba didi

iyo, magram Sovna Wirda.

davukavSirdi sazRvargareT wa-

sul nacnob Tbilisel ebraelebs,

romlebsac gauxardaT biznesis wa-

mowyeba. kompiuterebis gamogzavna

daiwyes, pirvelma saqarTvelos mec-

nierebaTa akademiam iyida; magram sa-

qarTvelos prokuraturas ar moewo-

na Cemi aqtiuroba, is, rom pirveli-

ve garigebiT Cemi kooperativis anga-

riSze erT milion rublze meti Ca-

iricxa da prokuraturam Cems anga-

riSebs yadaRa daado. mivxvdi, aq ga-

saqans ar momcemdnen da moskovSi ga-

dabargeba gadavwyvite.

jer kidev aspiranturaSi swavli-

sas gavicani vitali malkini, rome-

lic maSin moskovis rkinigzis insti-

tutis aspiranti iyo. erT students

me maTematikaSi vuwevdi repetito-

robas, vitali _ fizikaSi. roca

moskovSi davbrundi, malkini ukve

CarTuli iyo biznesSi _ raRacis ga-

dayidviT iyo dakavebuli, kafes gax-

snas cdilobda, magram me organize-

buli biznesi _ kompiuterebiT vaW-

roba SevTavaze.

malkins rkinigzis institutidan

hyavda megobrebi _ docenti sergei

mosini da aleqsandr briancevi. isini

naro-fominskSi saTburebs aSenebdnen,

maT kooperativi àgroprogresi~

hqondaT. axali kooperativis dare-

gistrirebaze dro rom ar daxarju-

liyo, àgroprogresis~ meSveobiT

vvaWrobdiT. yvelas Tanabari wili

gvqonda. es iyo 1988 weli. ulifto

SenobaSi, mexuTe sarTulze, samoTa-

xian binaSi erTi oTaxi viqiraveT _

es iyo Cveni ofisic da sawyobic.

sruli svliT miiwevda biznesi win,

romelic im dros sxvanairad ewyobo-

da: bevri ram ndobas efuZneboda, did

Tanxas winaswar vricxavdiT. Semd-

gomSi vaWroba daviwyeT agreTve qse-

roqsebiT, magnitofonebiTa da tele-

fonebiT.

imdroindel moskovSi uamravi

ucxoeli cxovrobda, romlebic

aTasnair saqonels gvTavazobdnen, pi-

radad CemTan jgrod, jguf-jgufad

modiodnen, magram vxedavdi, rom yve-

lani TaRliTebi iyvnen. amitomac

Cvenve wavediT sazRvargareT partni-

orebis mosaZebnad. SevityveT, rom pa-

rizSi mimdinareobda maRalteqnolo-

giuri produqciis gamofena. swored

iq davekontaqteT honkongis erT-erT

firmas da maTTan gavemgzavreT _

garwmunebT, Cven viyaviT pirveli

biznesmenebi ruseTidan, romlebic

honkongSi Cavidnen. maTTan gavafor-

meT Cveni pirveli didi kontraqti.

teqnikas mTlianad CineTSi amzadebd-

nen, gavriskeT da CineTSi Rilakebia-

ni telefonebisa da kasetiani magni-

tofonebis fabrika SeviZineT. 1990

wels Cveni kompania erT-erTi udide-

si iyo eleqtronuli teqnikiT vaW-

robis dargSi, Tumca sxvebic mixvd-

nen, rom es momgebiani biznesi iyo da

amitomac gadavwyviteT, sxva saqme wa-

mogvewyo. swored im periodSi gaCn-

da pirveli kerZo bankebi, 1990 wels

`rosiiski krediti~ davaregistri-

reT.

_ eleqtronuli teqnikiT vaWro-

bis garda, sxva biznesic gqondaT?

bankis Seqmnisas ra kapitali daagro-

veT?

_ sxva biznesi ar gvqonia. `rosi-

iski kreditis~ gaxsnisas 100-120

aTasi dolari gvqonda. es didi fu-

li iyo, amiT ramdenime bankis gaxsna

SeiZleboda. briancevi am saqmeSi ar

gamogvyva, gviTxra, uamisodac mdida-

ri varo da saTburebis mSenebloba

ganagrZo. me, malkinma da mosinma wi-

li Tanabrad gavinawileT. SemdgomSi

mosinis wili gamovisyide da amgva-

rad, me bankis 67 procenti mekuTv-

noda, malkins _ 33 procenti.

_ ra wili aqvs axla malkins ban-

ksa da samrewvelo sawarmoebSi?

_ man Tavisi wili orive bankSi

SeinarCuna, zogierT samrewvelo

obieqtSi misi wili ki axlaxan gamo-

visyide.

`Cven, ubralod, imas

vakeTebdiT, rasac

sxvebi ar akeTebdnen~

_ gviambeT, rogor daiwyeT saban-

ko biznesi, rogor moaxerxa `rosi-

iski kreditma~, liderebSi moxvedri-

liyo?

_ bankis pirveli ofisi sabavSvo

baRis SenobaSi ganvaTavseT da dRe-

RameSi 24-ive saaTi vmuSaobdiT. vid-

re bankSi asamde TanamSromeli iyo,

nebismier, Tundac umniSvnelo ga-

dawyvetilebas piradad me viRebdi.

maSin krediti yovelgvari uzrun-

velyofis gareSe gaicemoda, SesaZle-

beli iyo, igi ar daebrunebinaT, ami-

tomac TviTon unda gadamewyvita,

visTvis migveca krediti da visTvis

_ ara. Cven, ubralod, imas vakeTeb-

11 gv.


internetSi


13saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

diT, rasac sxvebi ar akeTebdnen. naR-

di fulis (valutis) gayidvis mocu-

lobis TvalsazrisiT pirvelebi viya-

viT: Cven, magaliTad, sagangebod vuk-

veTavdiT dolaris axal kupiurebs,

vxsnidiT valutis sacalo gayidvis

sabiTumo centrebs.

saerTodac, maSin bevr rames in-

tuicia wyvetda. maSinve mivxvdi, rom

fsoni filialebis qselze unda dag-

vedo. saamisod unda mogvegvarebina

ori sakvanZo problema _ mogveZebna

Senoba da kadrebi. erTxel, mTeli

Ramis ganmavlobaSi vfiqrobdi amis

Sesaxeb, diliT ki mzad mqonda ga-

dawyvetileba. Cven mivdiodiT sawar-

moebis, institutebis direqtorebTan

da vTanxmdebodiT _ isini gamogvi-

yofdnen Senobas, Cven ki maT organi-

zaciebs bankis mewileobas vTavazob-

diT (2-2 procents vaZlevdiT), Sem-

dgomSi isini Cveni klientebi xde-

bodnen. me davaarse pirveli sabanko

koleji ruseTSi, romelic Cveni ban-

kis momaval TanamSromlebs amzadeb-

da. pirvel etapze leqciebsac Tavad

vkiTxulobdi. Tumca yvelaze mTava-

ri, riTac vamayob, is aris, rom ban-

kSi SevqmeniT unikaluri korporaci-

uli suliskveTeba, maSindel TanamS-

romelTa umravlesoba dResac bankSi

muSaobs.

_ Tqven periodulad miemgzavre-

bodiT qveynidan, bolo weliwad-nnaxe-

vari ki mudmivad cxovrobT saqarT-

veloSi. rogor marTavT bizness, ra

sakiTxebs wyvetT piradad Tqven?

_ `rosiiski kreditis~ Seqmnis

dRidan moyolebuli dRevandlamde,

me erTdroulad misi aqcioneric var

da top-menejeric, ruseTSi sxvanai-

rad ar SeiZleba. banki davaarse Tu

ara, pirveli 4 weliwadi piradad va-

kontrolebdi yvelafers, rac iq

xdeboda. roca biznesi gafarTovda,

marTvis kolegialuri stili davner-

ge. axla, umeteswilad, strategiuli

sakiTxebis mogvarebaze var koncent-

rirebuli, magram vici yvelaferi, Tu

ra xdeba biznesis yvela mimarTule-

biT. axlac ki, sadac unda vimyofebo-

de, yoveldRiurad sul cota 4 sa-

aTs samuSao sakiTxebis mogvarebas

vandomeb.

_ ra funqciebi hqonda malkins?

_ igi warmomadgenlobiT funqci-

ebs asrulebda: warmoadgenda banks

saxelmwifo struqturebSi, Cem ma-

givrad dadioda formalur Sexved-

rebze, araformalur RonisZiebebze.

igi arasodes wyvetda, forsirebu-

lad biznesis ra mimarTuleba unda

ganviTarebuliyo, raze gveTqva uari,

ra gveyida, ra gagveyida, rogor Seg-

verCia kadrebi da ranairad gvemarTa

igi. es Cemi gasakeTebeli iyo, vita-

lim TviTonac icoda, rom am sa-

kiTxebSi kompetenturi ar iyo.

orivem erTad daviwyeT biznesi,

maSin aravin icoda, ra SeeZlo mas.

vitali Cemi megobaria, mas arasodes

uRalatia CemTvis, amitomac igi

kvlavac Cemi partnioria, me ki moxa-

ruli var, rom megobari mdidar ka-

cad vaqcie.

_ vasili anisimovs, romelsac

`rosiiski kreditSi~ vice-ppreziden-

tis Tanamdeboba ekava, bankSi wili

hqonda?

_ anisimovis kuTvnili qarxnebi

msxvili klientebi iyvnen bankisa,

magram igi misi mesakuTre arasodes

yofila. me partniorebi myavda sam-

rewvelo sawarmoebSi, bankSi ki, Tu

ar CavTvliT maT, vinc Senobis sanac-

vlod wili miiRo, Tanamflobeli

mxolod malkini gaxldaT. TiToeul

msvil klients mewileoba surda,

magram yvelas uariT vistumrebdi. sa-

erTod, vcdilob, partniorobas Tavi

avarido. CemTvis partniori Zalzed

seriozuli sakiTxia, Tanac arsebobs

riski, rom partniori mogatyuebs.

_ roca Tqven bizness iwyebdiT,

nebismieri struqtura, romelic

fuls Soulobda, banditebis yu-

radRebas ipyrobda. Tqven Tu gadawy-

domixarT msgavs problemebs?

_ Cven metismetad adre da-

viwyeT kompiuterebis biznesi, re-

ketirebi im dros Tvlemdnen da is

momenti ubralod gamorCaT. bankSi

ki marTlac gvqonda msgavsi prob-

lemebi. erTi ram SesaniSnavad vi-

ci: sakmarisia, erTxel gaurigde

maT (banditebs) da samudamod dau-

kavSirdebi. gavuZeli da sxvaTa

Soris, Cemi mTavari damsaxurebaa,

rom Cems biznesSi ar SemomiSvia

aravin, vinc banditad miaCniaT.

mogvianebiT vTanamSromlobdi sa-

marTaldamcav struqturebTan.

1993 wels, ruseTis organizebul

danaSaulTan brZolis sammarTve-

los (ÐÓÁÎÏ) xelmZRvanelis

vladimir ruSailos TanadgomiT

(igi Cemi Zmis povnaSi damexmara),

am sammarTveloSi Cemi iniciativiT

Seiqmna struqtura, romelsac Cemi

banki, mogvianebiT ki bevri sxva

komerciuli struqturac afinan-

sebda. sakmarisi iyo dagvereka, rom

misi TanamSromlebi umal adgilze

mosuliyvnen. es struqtura didi

xnis ganmavlobaSi efeqtianad mu-

Saobda. 1997 wels kreditebis da-

ubruneblobis problemas gadavawy-

diT; imis nacvlad, rom dagvxmare-

bodnen, am sammarTvelos TanamSrom-

lebi Cveni mevaleebisgan qrTams iReb-

dnen. amis gamo am struqturis maSin-

del xelmZRvanels aleqsandr kaCu-

ras vuTxari, rom TanamSromlobas

vwyvetdi.

_ magram im dros xom SeuZlebe-

li iyo biznesis warmarTva, Tuki sa-

xelmwifo moxeleebsa da imave bandi-

tebs Soris `kriSa~ ar geqnebodaT?

_ SesaZlebeli ki iyo, magram

imavdroulad _ rTulic. Cveni banki

arasodes moiazreboda egreT wode-

bul `blatian~ bankebs Soris. gada-

ricxvebis raodenobiT `rosiiski

krediti~ ruseTis Semnaxvel banksac

ki aWarbebda. es miuTiTebs imaze, rom

Cveni ZiriTadi sayrdeni wvrili da

saSualo klientura iyo. saxelmwifo

moxeleTaAmfarvelobiTac arasdros

misargeblia.

_ erTma saxelmwifo moxelem ma-

inc moutana sargebeli Tqvens banks.

roca evgeni biCkovi `roskomdrag-

mets~ (Zvirfasi liTonebisa da qve-

bis ruseTis komiteti _ mTargmn.)

xelmZRvanelobda, `roskreditma~ mo-

axerxa, oqros bazarze msxvili moTa-

maSe gamxdariyo, mogvianebiT ki biC-

kovi bankis vice-pprezidentad dainiS-

na.

_ bankTan biCkovis kavSirs Sesaba-

misi saxelmwifo uwyeba amowmebda da

ver moZebna veranairi darRveva, rac

mas, rogorc Cinovniks, SeeZlo mosv-

loda. biCkovi bankisTvis sasargeblo

mxolod imiT aRmoCnda, rom oriode

klienti SesZina mas.

_ `rosiiski krediti~ da `meta-

loinvesti~ bevr mravalprofilian

aqtivs flobda. romeli biznesi aR-

moCnda yvelaze ufro momgebiani?

_ rentabelobiT _ stoilenskis

samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinati, Ca-

debuli kapitalis ukugebiT _ qarxa-

na `kauCuki~. misi aqciebi 1991 wels

150 aTas dolarad viyideT, misi ga-

yidviT ki sul cota 500 milion

dolars miviRebT. qarxana mdebareobs

moskovis centrSi did teritoriaze,

sadac sul male didi mSenebloba ga-

CaRdeba.

_ rodis da ra principiT yidu-

lobdiT samrewvelo sawarmoebs?

_ daiwyo privatizacia, banks fu-

li hqonda, piradad vecnobodi gasa-

yidad gamotanil sawarmoTa sias, va-

fasebdi maT maCveneblebs, perspeqti-

vas. arCevanis dro mqonda erTaderTi

SezRudva: arasodes vacxadebdi pre-

tenzias iseT aqtivebze, romlis ga-

moc, SesaZloa, kriminaluri omi ga-

CaRebuli da amiT sakuTari da Cemi

TanamSromlebis sicocxlisTvis saf-

rTxe Semeqmna. amitomac banki navTo-

bis, aluminis da foladsasxmel sa-

warmoebs ar yidulobda.

_ `rosiiski krediti~ giravnobis

bevr auqcionSi iRebda monawileobas,

magram arasodes gaumarjvia. ratom?

_ banks giravnobis auqcionebSi

gancxadeba imitom ki ar Sehqonda,

rom gasayid aqtivebze kontroli mo-

epovebina, aramed imisTvis, rom auq-

cionebi CaeSala. Cven rom mogvego,

aqciebs saxelmwifos davubrunebdiT.

maSin komunistebi privatizacias

utevdnen, giravnobis auqcionebi maT

mniSvnelovan `kozirs~ aZlevda, ar-

sebobda riski, rom isini mTlianad

privatizaciis process CaSlidnen.

privatizaciis kanonebi xom naCqare-

vad iwereboda, arasrulyofili iyo,

xolo giravnobis auqcionze qonebis

gayidva sulac ukanonoba iyo.

_ anu Tqven privatizaciis

gadarCenas cdilobdiT?

_ ara marto amas. giravnobis

auqcionebi bazarze arsebuli

Zalebis balanss arRvevda da ga-

marjvebulebi CemTan SedarebiT

ukanono upiratesobiT sargeb-

lobdnen. rasakvirvelia, mindo-

da amisTvis xeli SemeSala. xma-

urs vtexdi, rom Cemi pozicia

mTavrobis, prezidentis yuramde

misuliyo, magram seriozuli

mtrebi SeviZine mxolod. im

dros mimdinare saxelmwifo sa-

TaTbiros arCevnebSi kraxi gani-

cada moZraobam `naS dom _ ra-

sia~, romlis lideric maSinde-

li premieri viqtor Cernomir-

dini gaxldaT. aman elcinis kri-

tika gamoiwvia da rogorc imd-

roindeli ministrTa kabinetis

erT-erTi wevri miyveboda, Cer-

nomirdini Tavs imarTlebda da

arCevnebSi damarcxebis mizezad

giravnobis auqcionebis winaaRm-

deg Cvens gamosvlebsa da masme-

diaSi atexil xmaurs asaxeleb-

da. marTalia, ar SemiZlia, vam-

tkico, rom arsebobda Cernomir-

dinis pirdapiri miTiTeba, magram er-

Ti kviris ganmavlobaSi, TiTqmis er-

Tdroulad (amis damadasturebeli

dokumentacia SemorCenili maqvs),

mogvakiTxa ruseTSi arsebulma yvela

makontrolebelma struqturam: sava-

luto kontrolma, raionisa da qala-

qis sagadasaxado inspeqciebma, sagada-

saxado policiam, safinanso kont-

rolma, centralurma bankma. da es

yvelaferi arCevnebis damTavrebamde

moxda. yvelaze metad sagadasaxado

policia aqtiurobda _ banks erT

welze meti xnis ganmavlobaSi amow-

mebda, magram aranairi darRveva ar

upovia. amitomac sagadasaxado poli-

cia cdilobda, zemoqmedeba moexdina

saerTaSoriso auditorze (ArthurAndersen) da maTgan bankis Sesaxebdokumentebi moepovebina, winaaRmdeg

SemTxvevaSi, ruseTSi muSaobis akr-

ZalviT emuqreboda. sagadasaxado po-

liciis maSindel ufross (sergei)

almazovs maSinve davureke. Cven Sev-

xvdiT erTmaneTs da arasdros dama-

viwydeba is saubari. vcdilobdi, ga-


14 gv.

14 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

mego, ratom xulignoben misi TanamS-

romlebi, banki xom isedac yvelanair

dokuments aZlevda, man ki mipasuxa:

`yvelaferi kargad geqnebaT, oRond

miTxari, rogor axerxeb Cemi TanamS-

romlebis mosyidvas? ukve mesamed

vcvli Cems saukeTeso personals,

romlebic Sen gamowmeben, da verana-

ir Sedegs ver miaRwies~. gamikvirda,

Tavidan verc mivxvdi, ras gulisx-

mobda. ganmimarta: `rogor axerxeb

maT gadabirebas da maTTan garige-

bas?~ vupasuxe: `RmerTma damifaros!

sagadasaxado policiasTan arasdros

milaparakia da arc momavalSi vapi-

reb amas. Zalian kargad mesmis, rom

es yvelaferi Tqven SegikveTes!~ man,

rasakvirvelia, ar aRiara,

dakveTa rom hqonda. ase dav-

SordiT erTmaneTs.

_ Zneli dasajerebelia,

rom Tqven ideuri mosazrebe-

bis gamo yvelaze msxvil ga-

rigebebSi ar monawileobdiT...

_ miuxedavad amisa, asea.

magaliTad, giravnobis auqci-

onebis Semdeg erT weliwadSi

tiumenis navTobkombinatis

(ÒÍÊ) saxelmwifo paketi

iyideboda. paketis naxevarze

pretenzias acxadebda mixail

fridmani da german xani, vik-

tor vekselbergma SemomTava-

za, meore naxevari erTad gve-

yida. davTanxmdi da masTan

erTad auqcionisTvis ori

Tvis ganmavlobaSi vemzadebo-

di; magram navTobkombinatis

direqtorma viqtor paliim am

auqcionis mizanSewonilobis

gamo xmauri atexa da sul

bolo momentSi masSi monawi-

leobaze uari ganvacxade.

_ vekselbergma da àlfa-

jgufma~ tiumenis navTobkom-

binatis meSveobiT didi fuli

iSoves. ar nanobT, rom mis yidvaze

uari ganacxadeT?

_ ar SemeZlo, monawileoba mime-

Ro iseT garigebaSi, romlis kanonie-

rebaSi iotisodena eWvi mepareboda.

mogitanT kidev erT magaliTs: sain-

vesticio konkursze Cems partnio-

rebTan erTad mixailovskis samTo-ga-

mamdidrebeli kombinatis 20 procen-

ti SeviZine. sul male sainvesticio

programaSi aRmoCnda uzusto gaTv-

lebi, kanonmdebloba ki programis

Secvlis uflebas ar iZleoda da mi-

si TviTneburad Secvla arc Cven

gvicdia. amitomac aqciebi saxelmwi-

fos davubruneT. garwmunebT, saxel-

mwifo sakuTrebaSi aqciebis nebayof-

lobiTi dabrunebis sxva SemTxvevas

ver ipoviT. mxolod weliwadnaxev-

ris Semdeg movaxerxeT da fulis

auqcionze am kombinatis aqciebi xe-

laxla gamovisyideT. me sruliad

gansxvavebuli taqtika mqonda: vyidu-

lobdi iseT aqtivebs, romlisTvisac

brZola ar iyo saWiro, romelsac sa-

Tanadod ar afasebdnen an saerTodac

wamgebiani iyo. yvelani foladsamsx-

melo sawarmoebisTvis ibrZodnen,

nedleulis mimwodeblebi ki aravis

ainteresebda; maSin viyide mixailov-

skis, stoilenskis, lebedinskis sam-

To-gamamdidrebeli kombinatebi.

_ samTo-ggamamdidrebeli kombina-

tebi axla foladsamsxmel sawarmo-

ebs aWarbeben, rentabelobiT romeli

aRwevs 500 procentamde?

_ marTlac iyo aseTi rentabelo-

ba, magram samTo-gamamdidrebelma kom-

binatebma didi mogeba sam-oTx weli-

wadSi moitana. manamde ki xuTi-eqvsi

weliwadi gvixdeboda maTi subsidi-

reba, am kombinatebis TanamSromle-

bisTvis xelfasic ki moskovidan mig-

vqonda. metalurgebi kombinatebs kar-

naxobdnen, ra fasad Seisyiddnen ned-

leuls da Cveulebisamebr, TviTRire-

bulebaze ufro iafad yidulobdnen.

viTarebis Sesacvlelad didi Zalis-

xmeva damWirda: Cemi iniciativiT, ru-

seTis samTo-gamamdidrebelma kombina-

tebma da yazaxeTis aseTive sawarmom

dades karteluri SeTanxmeba da war-

moebis moculoba Seamcires, anu ba-

zars zedmeti nedleuli moaciles

da metalurgebi mxolod amis Semdeg

gaxdnen samTo-gamamdidrebel kombi-

natze damokidebuli.

_ Tqven ambobT, rom arasodes

CndebodiT iq, sadac riski iyo, 1997

wels ki mainc aRmoCndiT yvelaze

cxel wertilSi _ krasnoiarskis

aluminis qarxanaSi.

_ am qarxnis aqciebi meorad ba-

zarze viyide, Tanac qarxnis yvelaze

msxvili aqcioneri ar vyofilvar. ise

moxda, rom krasnoiarskSi muSaoba

bevrad adre daviwye, vidre aluminis

qarxanaSi movxvdebodi, jer kidev

1992 wels bankma SeiZina 30 procen-

ti krasnoiarskis metalurgiuli

qarxnisa, romelic aluminis qarxanas

esazRvreba da sadac aluminis pro-

duqcia mzaddeba. Tumca im momentSi

am qarxniT aravin dainteresebula da

gaCerebuli iyo, radgan aravin aZlev-

da metals. es mdgomareoba 1994

wlamde gagrZelda, vidre krasnoiar-

skis aluminis qarxnis aqcionerebma

ar miiRes gadawyvetileba, metalur-

giuli qarxnis balansze gada-

etanaT saxelmwifo sakuTreba-

Si arsebuli aluminis qarxni-

sa da aCinskis Tixamiwis kom-

binatis aqciebis 20 procen-

ti.

_ Tqven xom ar waaSveleT

amas xeli?

_ me araferi vicodi. alu-

minis qarxnis mesakuTreebi fi-

qrobdnen, rom SemdgomSi am pa-

ketebs gaakontrolebdnen. isi-

ni gaocebulni darCnen, roca

Seityves, rom krasnoiarskis

metalurgiul kombinats msx-

vili aqcioneri ukve karga xa-

nia hyavs. maT SemomTavazes am

paketis gayidva da 1996 wels

Zalze Zvirad gavyide. erTi

wlis Semdeg aluminis qarxnis

aqcionerTa Soris Tavi uTanx-

moebam iCina. vasili anisimovi

kargad icnobda sam maTgans _

aleqsandr kolpakovs, vladi-

mir ratnikovs da oleg kims,

romlebsac aqciebis 28 pro-

centi ekuTvnodaT. anisimovma

miTxra, rom kolpakovi da

ratnikovi qarxnis aqciebis 48 pro-

centis myidvelebs eZebdnen, Tumca me

da vasilim maTgan aqciebi mxolod

mas Semdeg viyideT, roca maT anato-

li bikovsa da genadi druJinins 20

procenti daubrunes da bikovi da-

Tanxmda imas, rom Cven yvelani erTad

vimuSavebdiT.

_ ratom daniSneT maSin bikovi

`rosiiski kreditis~ vice-ppreziden-

tad?

_ igi arc bankis sabWos wevri

iyo, xelfassac ar Rebulobda da

bankSi aranair rols ar asrulebda.

bankSi yovelTvis bevri vice-prezi-

denti iyo _ es Cemi idea iyo: am Ta-

namdebobaze vniSnavdiT bankis klien-

tebs, msxvili sawarmoebis xelmZRva-

nelbs an mesakuTreebs. xalxs siamov-

nebda, praqtikulad ki isini iRebdnen

savizito baraTebs warweriT _ `vi-

ce-prezidenti~.

_ krasnoiarskis aluminis qarxnis

ramdeni procenti gekuTvnodaT? ro-

dis da ratom waxvediT qarxnidan?

_ me da vasilim (anisimovma), ori-

vem erTad kolpakovisa da amxanage-

bisgan 14 procenti viyideT. 5-5 pro-

centi Glencore-sgan da Daewoo-sgangamovisyideT. amgvarad, roca alumi-

nis qarxnidan movdiodi, me 12 pro-

centi mqonda. am qarxanaSi erTi we-

lic ar vyofilvar _ mas Semdeg wa-

vedi, rac bikovsa da sxva aqcione-

rebs (mxaris) gubernator aleqsandr

lebedTan konfliqti SeeqmnaT.

_ amboben, rom Tqven asponsoreb-

diT lebeds.

_ lebeds maSin davexmare, roca

yvelasgan mitovebuli politikosi

iyo. anatoli Cubaisi xelmZRvanelob-

da elcinis winasaarCevno Stabs,

romlis wevrebic lebeds seriozu-

lad ar aRiqvamdnen. me ki Cems ofis-

Si misi winasaarCevno Stabi ganvaTav-

se, mis, ase vTqvaT, `raskrutkas~ va-

finansebdi. arCevnebamde erTi TviT

adre yvela mixvda, rom me marTali

viyavi: elcins dabali reitingi hqon-

da, lebedma ki arCevnebSi Tavisi xme-

bi elcins dauTmo da amiT misi ga-

marjvebac uzrunvelyo. maSin CemTvis

madlobac ki aravis uTqvams, xolo

rodesac lebeds xsnidnen (uSiSro-

ebis sabWos xelmZRvanelis Tanamde-

bobidan), yvelam gaixsena, rom igi me

moviyvane (politikaSi) da gaminapi-

res (gamriyes). es iyo erTaderTi

SemTxveva, roca politikur proces-

Si vmonawileobdi. mere, roca le-

beds gubernatorad irCevdnen, Zvele-

burad, kadrebiT ki davexmare, magram

uSualod ar damifinansebia da masTan

arc aranairi kavSiri ar mqonia.

`SeiZleboda,

yvelaferi damekarga~

_ Tqven sxvadasxvagvar aqtivs yi-

dulobdiT, Tumca 90-iiani wlebis

bolos Tqveni sainvesticio aqtivoba

Semcirda. ratom?

_ 1998 wlis defoltis Semdeg

yvelanairi Zalisxmeva `rosiiski kre-

ditis~ problemebis mogvarebas das-

Wirda. sxvaTa Soris, maSin saxelmwi-

fo moxeleebma mogvatyues. msxvili

bankebis mflobelebi defoltis Se-

saxeb mis gamocxadebamde gagvafrTxi-

les. piradad me, defoltis katego-

riuli winaaRmdegi viyavi, Tumca yve-

la mamSvidebda, xolo centraluri

bankis xelmZRvaneli sergei dubinini

dagvpirda, rom Tu saWiro gaxdeba,

bankisTvis kredits miiRebTo. ga-

mocxadda defolti da menabreebi Ta-

vianTi fulis wasaRebad bankebs mi-

awydnen. sxvebiviT rom movqceuliya-

viT, _ fuli ar gagveca, Cveni bankis-

Tvis krizisis Sedegebi aseTi damang-

reveli ar iqneboda. miuxedavad ami-

sa, Cven ori kviris ganmavlobaSi yve-

la msurvels patiosnad davubruneT

180 milioni dolari. roca fuli

gagviTavda, dubinins Tavisi dapireba

Sevaxsene, magram krediti ar momca.

_ ra Sedegebi moutana defoltma

banks? ra moimoqmedeT bankis krizi-

sidan gamosayvanad?

13 gv.


internetSi



15#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w. saerTo gazeTi

_ maSin rTuli arCevanis winaSe

aRmovCndi _ an gavkotrebuliyavi an

damoukideblad gametarebina rest-

ruqturizaciis procesi. Zneli iyo

aseTi gadawyvetilebis miReba, Tumca

restruqturizacia varCie. CemTvis,

rogorc bankis aqcionerisTvis, mas

ekonomikuri TvalsazrisiT, azri ar

hqonda _ kargad mesmoda, rom rest-

ruqturizebuli bankis sabazro Rire-

buleba Zalian dabali iqneboda. pasiv-

sa da aqtivs Soris gansxvaveba daax-

loebiT, erTi miliardi dolari iyo.

paradoqsulia, magram safasuri

yvela Cemi aqtivisa, romlebic bank-

Tan dakavSirebuli ar yofila, im

dros erTi miliardic ki ar iyo. ma-

Sin miviRe gadawyvetileba, yvela Ce-

mi samrewvelo sawarmos _ lebedins-

kis, stoilenskis, mixailovskis sam-

To-gamamdidrebeli kombinatebis, `tu-

laCermetis~, orlovskis foladsag-

linavi qarxnis, sastumroebis aqcie-

bi bankis valebis uzrunvelsayofad

Camedo. aseTi giravnobis gareSe, rom-

lis nawilis mogvianebiT gamosyidva

momixda, `rosiiski kreditis~ klien-

tebi ukiduresad dazaraldebodnen,

rasac Cemi cxovrebiseuli principe-

bis gaTvaliswinebiT ver davuSvebdi.

bevrs ar esmoda Cemi _ nacnob biz-

nesmenebs lamis TviTmkvlelad mivaC-

ndi (`rosiiski krediti~ sakredito

organizaciebis restruqturizaciis

saagentos /�—˚˛ / mmarTvelobaSi ga-

davida. miiRo ra bankis 25 procenti

+ 1 aqcia sakuTrebaSi, kidev 50 pro-

centi _ marTvaSi, saagentom mas 4,5

mlrd rublis sakredito xazi gaux-

sna. im momentSi `rosiiski kreditis~

sakredito davalianeba daaxloebiT,

erT miliards Seadgenda. 2000 wlis

agvistoSi damtkicda SeTanxmeba,

romlis Tanaxmadac, meanabreebma

(moTxovna _ 1,8 miliardi rubli)

erTjeradad 30 000 rubli da ban-

kis veqsilebi miiRes, xolo korpo-

raciulma klientebma (moTxovna _ 21

miliardi rubli) _ moTxovnis 10

procentamde fulis saxiT da bankis

veqselebi, romlebic aT weliwadSi

iyo dasafari. 2003 wlis ivnisSi

bankma fizikuri pirebis mimarT arse-

buli valdebulebebis 90 procenti

dafara. 2003 wlis noemberSi `rosi-

iski kreditis~ kapitali kvlav dade-

biTi gaxda. restruqturizaciis saa-

gentos warmomadgenelTa TqmiT, es

yvelaferi damatebiTi emisiis mimdi-

nareobisas bankis kapitalSi valebis

konvertaciis Sedegad moxerxda. _

´��æ�Ł)_ ra aqtivebi gayideT kredito-

rebis gasastumreblad?

_ paketebi, romlebiTac lebedin-

skis samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombina-

tis gakontroleba SeiZleboda, or-

lovis foladsaglinavi qarxana, `tu-

laCermeti~. vyiddi imas, razec yve-

laze didi moTxovnileba iyo. sxva-

TaASoris, mixailovskis kombinatis

aqciebi maSin aravis sWirdeboda, im

dros maTSi 50 milion dolarsac ki

aravin gadaixdida. sul bankis aqcio-

nerebma kreditorebs daaxloebiT,

450 milioni dolari gadauxades _

am TanxaSi Sedis aqciebis realizaci-

iT miRebuli Semosavali da àrkos~

kreditebi, romlebic Cven mogviane-

biT sakuTari biznesis meSveobiT dav-

fareT. sxvaTa Soris, maSin rom Se-

menarCunebina da axla gameyida, kidev

3 miliards miviRebdi.

SeiZleboda, yvelaferi damekarga.

qveyanaSi ekonomikis aRmasvla kidev

naxevari wliT rom Seferxebuliyo,

iZulebuli gavxdebodi, Cadebuli qo-

neba gameyida da araferi SemrCeboda.

SarSan bankis restruqturizacia

dasrulda. darwmunebuli var, amiT

ara marto `roskreditisa~ da misi

aqcionerebis prestiJi, aramed mTli-

anad ruseTis sabanko sistemisadmi

ndoba amaRlda. ucxoeli bankirebi

gafacicebuli akvirdebodnen ruseT-

Si situacias, xolo Cveni bankis

restruqturizaciam yvelas daanaxa,

rom msgavsi problemis civilizebu-

lad mogvarebis magaliTebi ruseTSi

SesaZlebeli iyo.

_ dRes xom ar nanobT, rom aseTi

restruqturizacia gadawyviteT?

_ vamayob, rom ase moviqeci. Sevi-

narCune Cem mier Seqmnili banki.

`roskreditis~ restruqturizacia

erTaderTi SemTxvevaa msoflio praq-

tikaSi, roca mTavrobis mizeziT war-

moqmnili valebi kerZo kompaniam gais-

tumra. Tumca, rasakvirvelia, odnav

gulsatkenia, rom Zalian cotam daa-

fasa is, risi gakeTebac maSin momiwia.

_ ra gakavSirebdaT biznesmen ar-

kadi gaidamakTan, romelmac 2000

wels `rosiiski kreditis~ direq-

torTa sabWos Tavmjdomaris Tanamde-

boba daikava? gqondaT Tu ara erTob-

livi proeqtebi? amboben, rom rom

mas surda, TqvenTan erTad orlovis

foladsaglinavi qarxana eyida.

_ gaidamaki 1991 wels gavicani.

mas ruseTSi qonebis yidva undoda,

masTan, iseve rogorc aTas sxva me-

warmesTan erTad, SesaZlo erTobliv

investiciebze vmsjelobdi. mas marT-

lac surda, orlovis foladsaglina-

vi qarxnis aqciebis yidva, magram sa-

bolood, fuli ar gaiRo. masTan ara-

nairi erToblivi biznesi ar mqonia.

samagierod, misi wyalobiT, uZravi

qonebiT davkavdi. 1992-1993 wlebSi

gaidamakma `minskisa~ da `centralna-

ias~ aqciebis uzrunvelyofiT, banki-

dan gamoitana kreditebi, romlebic

ar daubrunebia.

_ da mainc _ iyo Tu ara gaidama-

ki `rosiiski kreditis~ aqcioneri?

2000 wels bankSi ambobdnen, rom igi

aqcioneria.

_ Cveni nacnobobis pirvelive

dRidan undoda daveyoliebine da mis-

Tvis bankis Tundac 10 procenti mi-

meyida, magram uars veubnebodi. 2000

wels ki gamoCnda da meubneba, rom

Tanaxmaa, 200 milion dolarad 25

procenti iyidos. banks maSin rest-

ruqturizaciis saagentos marTavda.

fuli rom moeca, ufro did pakets

mivcemdi nakleb fasad. maSinve doku-

mentebi ar gagviformebia, xeli ar

mogviweria, magram igi sabWos Tavmj-

domared daniSnes _ swored maSin (a-

leqsandr) livSici Tanamdebobas to-

vebda, mis adgilze sxva vinme unda

SegverCia. gaidamaks, rogorc Cans, ar

sjeroda, rom banks ar gavakotrebdi.

sami Tve imuSava CvenTan, sakuTari

TvaliT naxa yvela giravnoba da wa-

vida. roca SevityveT, rom igi iara-

RiT vaWrobda, vTqvi, bankSi aRar da-

vinaxo-meTqi.

`gadavwyvite, Cems

did meurneobaSi

wesrigi davamyaro~

_ ra gegmebi gaqvT Tqveni bankebis

Semdgomi ganviTarebis Sesaxeb? xom

ar apirebT ìmpeqsbankis~ gayidvas?

SesaZlebelia Tu ara `rosiiski kre-

ditisa~ da ìmpeqsbankis~ Serwyma?

_ vidre mixailovskis samTo-ga-

mamdidrebel kombinatTan dakavSire-

biT garigebas davdebdi, ìmpeqsban-

kis~ gayidvis variants ganvixilavdi,

magram axla gadavwyvite, finansuri

seqtori erT-erT prioritetul mi-

marTulebad vaqcio. axlaxan `rosi-

iski kreditis~ sawesdebo kapitali

gavzarde 100 milioniT 350 milio-

namde _ `tulaCermetis~ gayidviT

amonagebi Tanxa Cavde. arc ise didi

xnis win 50 milioni ìmpeqsbankSic~

Cavde. uaxloes periodSi orive bank-

Si kidev 150 milionis dabandebas va-

pireb. maT gaerTianebas ar vapireb, es

ekonomikurad gamarTlebuli ar aris,

ufro xelsayrelia ori bankis qona

_ erTi, ìmpeqsbanki~, specializdeba

sacalo momsaxurebaze, xolo `rosi-

iski kredits~ ramdenime weliwadSi

qveynis erT-erT saukeTeso sainvesti-

cio bankad vaqcev. saamisod ki didi

Zalisxmevaa saWiro, uwinaresad, es

exeba bankis imijs _ yvelas axsovs,

rom `rosiiski krediti~ ramdenime

wlis ganmavlobaSi Tvlemda.

_ ramdenad gamarTlebulia ìmpeq-

sbankis~ ganviTareba, roca ucxouri

bankebis poziciebi Zlierdeba da maT-

Tan konkurencia sul ufro rTul-

deba.

_ ucxouri bankebis konkurencias

rom win aRudge, erT-erTi maTgani

partniorad unda gaixado. Cven (aqci-

ebis) 25 procentis gayidva gvindo-

da, magram potenciurma myidvelebma

dagvarwmunes, rom damblokavze nak-

lebi ar ainteresebdaT. amitomac ax-

la molaparakebebs vawarmoebT 25

procents + 1 aqciis gayidvis Sesa-

xeb. es garigeba biZgis mimcemi iqneba

bankis ganviTarebisTvis, Semdeg ki

biznesis sworad gamarTvaa saWiro.

_ visTan gaqvT molaparakebebi?

_ safrangeTis, germaniis, holan-

diis bankebTan. arCevani uaxloes xan-

Si gakeTdeba.

_ ratom gayideT mixailovskis

samTo-ggamamdidrebeli kombinati?

_ jer kidev 90-iani wlebis Sua

periodidan moyolebuli, samTo-gamam-

didrebeli da foladsaglinavi kom-

binatebis gaerTianebas veswrafvodi,

raTa sruli sawarmoo jaWvi Seqmni-

liyo. aqtivebis gaerTianebis SesaZ-

leblobaze vmsjelobdi yvela msxvi-

li kombinatis mflobelebTan _ vla-

dimir lisinTan, viqtor raSnikovTan,

aleqsei mordaSovTan. TiToeul maT-

gans gaerTianebul kompaniaSi sakon-

trolo paketis SenarCuneba surda,

rac CemTvis xelsayreli ar iyo. yve-

laze metad warmatebuli gamodga mo-

laparakebebi aleqsandr abramovTan

(èvrazholdingis~ TanamflobelTan).

SarSan masTan mivaRwie SeTanxmebas

èvrazholdingisa~ da mixailovskis

kombinatis gaerTianebis Sesaxeb. ga-

erTianebul kompaniaSi me miviRebdi

40 procentamde, riTac misi umsxvi-

lesi aqcioneri gavxdebodi (èvraz-

holdingis~ aqciebi kompaniis menej-

ments Soris aris ganawilebuli. _

´��æ�Ł). dokumentebi mzad iyo

xelmosawerad, roca Cemma Zvelma me-

gobarma vasili anisimovma da aliSer

usmanovma sxva winadadeba SemomTava-

zes.

_ Tavdapirvelad iTqva, rom aqti-

vebs gaaerTianebdiT, ramdenime Tvis

Semdeg ki yvela saxtad datoveT

imiT, rom kombinati 2 miliard do-

larad gayideT.

_ Cven erToblivi biznesis SesaZ-

leblobaze, maT sakuTrebaSi arsebu-

li metalurgiuli kombinatis `nos-

tas~ bazaze axali metalurgiuli

warmoebis Seqmnis Sesaxeb daviwyeT

msjeloba. me mindoda mixailovskis

kombinatis aqciebis sakontrolo pa-

keti SemenarCunebina, isini ki, aseT

SemTxvevaSi, `nostaSi~ _ saboloo

mza produqciis mwarmoebel kombi-

natSi daJinebiT moiTxovdnen pari-

tets. aseTi varianti CemTvis miuRe-

beli iyo da gadavwyvite, maTTvis

mTliani paketi mimeyida _ abramovis-

gan gansxvavebiT, maT es winadadeba

SemomTavazes.

_ iqneb metalurgiul bizness Ta-

vi imitomac daanebeT, rom ruseTSi

sul ufro da ufro mkacrdeba biz-

nesisTvis aucilebeli pirobebi?

_ mixailovskis samTo-gamamdidre-

beli kombinatis aqciebi imotom gav-

yide, rom kargi fuli SemomTavazes.

politikis komentireba ki ar msurs.

_ rodis ufro muSaobdiT kom-

fortulad _ Tqven xom egreT wode-

buli sabazro urTierTobebis TiTo-

euli periodis Taviseburebani saku-

Tar Tavze gaqvT gadatanili?

16 gv.

16 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

_ yvelaze komfortulad maSin

vgrZnobdi Tavs, roca `rosiiski kre-

diti~ qveynis erT-erTi umsxvilesi

banki iyo, romelic ganviTarebis

mwvervalze imyofeboda.

_ vidre mixailovskis kombinatTan

dakavSirebul garigebas dadebdiT,

manamde stoilenskis samTo-ggamamdid-

rebeli kombinati gayideT. iqmneba

STabeWdileba, rom Tqven qonebas yi-

diT.

_ gadavwyvite, Cems did meurneo-

baSi wesrigi davamyaro. aRar maqvs

Zveleburi energia, rom yvelafriT

erTbaSad davkavde. Zalian bevri sxva-

dasxvagvari aqtivi maqvs, romelTagan

bevri privatizaciis dasawyisSivea

nayidi. wlis bolomde yvela arapro-

filuri aqtivis gayidvas vapireb, da-

vitoveb mxolod `stoilenskaia ni-

vas~, bankebs, uZrav qonebas, saafTia-

qo bizness, aRmosavleT cimbiris

navTobisa da gazis kompanias

(ÂÑÍÊ).

_ ramdenad afasebT ùnikoris~

aqtivebs? ra Tanxas miiRebT arapro-

filuri qonebis gayidvis Sedegad?

_ Cemi azriT, axla yvela aqtivis

Rirebuleba 1,5-2 miliardi dolaria,

araprofiluri aqtivebisa ki _ daax-

loebiT 500 milioni dolari.

_ Tqven stoilenskis samTo-ggamam-

didrebeli kombinati 510 milion do-

larad gayideT, mixailovskis kombi-

nati da `tulaCermeti _ 2 miliar-

dad. bazari daintrigebulia _ ro-

gor gankargavT amonageb fuls?

_ mixailovskis kombinatis aqcie-

bidan amonagebi Tanxis naxevars ax-

landel proeqtebSi davabandeb. CemT-

vis axla prioriteti soflis meur-

neobaa. `stoilenskaia nivaSi~ ukve

Cadebulia 200 milioni dolari, da-

matebiT kidev 200-300 milionis in-

vestirebas vapireb. axla molaparake-

bebs vmarTav kompaniis SeZenis Sesa-

xeb, romelic `stoilenskaia nivas~

masStabisaa. misi dasaxeleba jerje-

robiT ar SemiZlia.

_ ratom aris prioritetuli

soflis meurneobis biznesi? gagaCni-

aT rame gaTvla, rom igi perspeqti-

ulia?

_ axlandel pirobebSi msgavsi

gaTvla SeuZlebelia, bevr rames

mTavrobis pozicia gansazRvravs. er-

Tgvari sportuli interesi mamoZra-

vebs _ rTul seqtorSi warmatebuli

kompania Sevqmna.

_ gaamarTla Tu ara saafTiaqo

biznesma Tqveni molodini?

_ Cven igi arafrisgan daviwyeT.

jerjerobiT mogeba Cadebul investi-

cias ver aWarbebs, misi reinvestire-

ba mimdinareobs, magram es mimarTu-

leba perspeqtiulad mimaCnia. kidev

100-200 milionis Cadebas vapireb.

SarSan samxreTis federalur olqSi

ukve viyideT didi saafTiaqo qseli,

axla mis rebrendirebas vaxdenT.

dRes bevria am biznesiT dainterese-

buli _ Cven ganvacxadeT, rom mzad

varT viyidoT saafTiqo qseli, magram

aravis unda misi gayidva.

_ uZrav qonebasTan dakavSirebuli

ra proeqtebis realizebas apirebT?

_ daiwyo `minskis~ rekonstruq-

cia~, Semdegi sastumro `centralna-

ia~ iqneba. meorad bazarze sastumro-

ebis yidvis SesaZleblobas vswavlob.

`kauCukis~ teritoriaze, romlis sa-

erTo farTobi 10 heqtaria, sul ma-

le daiwyeba mravalfunqciuri didi

kompleqsis mSenebloba _ ofisebiT,

sacxovrebeli saxlebiT da sxv. uZ-

ravi qonebiT SemdgomSic davkavdebiT,

ukve veZebT Zvel nagebobebs, miwas

mSeneblobisTvis. uZrav qonebaSi yve-

laze didi investicia Caideba _ da-

axloebiT 500 milioni dolari.

_ Tqvens mflobelobaSia didi

satransporto kompania `wiaRiseulis

gadazidvs centri~. xom ar apirebT

mis gayidvas? ramdenad afasebT mas?

_ vfiqrob, misi fasi 250 mili-

oni dolaria. es kompania sarkinigzo

gadazidvebSi umsxvilesia, mis parkSi

4 000 vagonia. uaxloes aT weli-

wadSi mas veravin Seaviwroebs. jer-

jerobiT ar gamomaqvs gasayidad, mag-

ram Tu myidvelebi moiZebnebian, gav-

yidi.

_ raSi unda daxarjoT mixailov-

skis kombinatis gayidviT miRebuli

Tanxis meore naxevari? raime msxvili

aqtivis yidvas apirebT? iqneb ruse-

Tis sazRvrebs miRma?

_ yvelanair Sesyidvas vapireb

mxolod ruseTSi, romelsac kargad

vicnob. viyiddi axal did kompanias,

magram saintereso winadadebebi ar

Cans. erT-erTi varianti iqneba aRmo-

savleT cimbiris navTobisa da gazis

kompaniis sakontrolo paketis yidva.

ùnikors~ am kompaniis aqciebis 28,5

procenti aqvs. igi aRmosavleT cim-

biris, kerZod, CemTvis kargad nacno-

bi krasnoiarskis mxaris bolomde ga-

moukvleveli, magram navTobis pers-

peqtiuli maragebis aTvisebiT aris

dakavebuli.

_ rogor aRmoCndiT am proeqtSi?

_ ìuksis~ (1998 wlis ga-

zafxulze `sibneftisa~ da ìukosis~

mflobelebi am saxelwodebiT gaer-

Tianebuli kompaniis Seqmnas apirebd-

nen. _ ´��æ�Ł) daSlis Semdeg,

`sibneftis~ aqcionerebma aRmosavleT

cimbiris navTobisa da gazis kompania,

aRar maxsovs, romel navTobreide-

rebs mihyides. isini am kompaniis aq-

ciebis 100 procents me mTavazobd-

nen; vfiqrobdi, rom marto ver gavw-

vdebodi da (aRmosavleT cimbiris

navTobisa da gazis kompaniis) sakon-

trolo paketis ìukosisTvis~ miyid-

vis organizeba gadavwyvite. am proeq-

tis bedi jerjerobiT gaurkvevelia.

Tuki saxelmwifo gamoxatavs Tavis

pozicias aRmosavleT cimbiris nav-

Tobisa da gazis kompaniis mimarT,

SesaZloa, pretenzia gamecxadebina

sakontrolo paketis Sesyidvaze, mag-

ram xom unda vicode, visTan vawar-

moo molaparakebebi _ ìukosTan~ Tu

saxelmwifosTan?

_ aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa

da gazis kompaniis aqciebis sakont-

rolo paketis SesaZenad ìukosTan~

molaparakebebi mimdinareobs?

_ jerjerobiT _ ara.

_ riTi gxiblavT es proeqti?

_ kargad vicnob am kompanias, igi

warmatebiT viTardeboda, mis mimarT

pretenziebi ar hqoniaT (da axlac

asea) im saxelmwifo organoebs, rom-

lebic bunebaTsargeblobis sakiTxebs

aregulireben. aqcionerebma masSi uk-

ve Cades 190 milioni dolaris inves-

ticia. aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobi-

sa da gazis kompaniis ganviTarebis

strategia Cven, rogorc minorita-

rul aqcionerebs, xels gvaZlevs.

Tuki aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa

da gazis kompania gaiyideba, am pro-

eqtis aTvisebas mxolod Cemi fuli

ar eyofa, damatebiTi saxsrebis mo-

zidva iqneba aucilebeli.

_ Tuki aRmosavleT cimbiris nav-

Tobisa da gazis kompaniis yidva ver

moxerxda?

_ portfelur investorad davr-

Cebi. kargad vicnob sainvesticio bi-

zness. me ukve mekuTvnis `gazpromis~,

`lukoilis~, sxva kompaniebis TiTo-

TiTo procenti. momavalSi rusuli

kompaniebis likviduri qaRaldebis

yidvas kvlav gavagrZeleb.

_ saqarTveloSi axlaxan dabrun-

diT. didi xania, iq biznesi gaqvT?

_ daaxloebiT aTi welia, rac sa-

qarTveloSi biznesi maqvs. aqtivebi

sxvadasxvagvaria. Cems mflobeloba-

Sia kvebis dargSi erT-erTi umsxvi-

lesi kompania _ `Tolia~, romelic

amzadebs nayins, pelmens, namcxvrebs.

maqvs banki `qarTu~, agreTve saqarT-

veloSi udidesi samSeneblo kompania,

romelic ofisebsac aSenebs da

sacxovrebel saxlebsac; sasoflo-sa-

meurneo kompania, romelsac 600 ha

miwa ekuTvnis. Cems sakuTrebas war-

moadgens saqarTveloSi yvelaze didi

marani, romelic mTaSia gaWrili. iq

RviniT savse uzarmazari cisternebia.

300 heqtarze vazi gavaSeneT, ganvi-

Tarebas vfiqrobdiT, magram axla yve-

lafer amas vyidi, myidvelebic gamoC-

ndnen. mxolod banks davitoveb.

_ ratom gadawyviteT saqarTve-

loSi biznesis gayidva?

_ male 50 wlis vxdebi da axla

aucilebelia mTavarze koncentrire-

ba, yvelafris erTad gaZRolas sxva

energia sWirdeba. erTaderTi proeq-

ti, romlis dasrulebac msurs, es

aris samTo-saTxilamuro kompleqsi

`bakuriani-2~. ramdenime wlis win ev-

ropis erT-erT saukeTeso mTian mxa-

reSi, bakurianSi, miwis didi nakveTi

SeviZine. kanadurma da avstriulma

kompaniebma ukve Seadgines sakuror-

to kompleqsis ganviTarebis genera-

luri gegma. kompleqsi moicavs

saTxilamuro trasebsa da gasarTob

centrs. wleuls proeqtis pirveli

etapis _ gondolebiani sabagiro

gzis mSeneblobis dafinansebas vi-

wyeb, gaisad ki mTliani infrastruq-

tura mzad unda iyos. TviTon ver

davkavdebi am proeqtiT. iq ZiriTadad

rusi turistebi Cavlen. minda, rom

rusma turoperatorebma sastumroe-

bis mSenebloba daiwyon da mzad var,

maT mSeneblobisTvis miwa usasyid-

lod gadavce da dafinansebis SeRava-

Tiani pirobebic SevTavazo.

_ saqarTveloSi Tqvens dabrune-

bas qveyanaSi seriozuli cvlilebebi

daemTxva. rogor afasebT am cvlile-

bebs?

_ xelisuflebaSi movida axal-

gazrduli Zala, magram me maTi arc

momxre var da arc mowinaaRmdege.

sul es aris, risi Tqmac SemiZlia.

saerTod ki, Zalian vwuxvar, rom ru-

sul-qarTuli urTierTobebi aseT ka-

lapotSi miedineba.

_ ramdenad sajaro cxovrebas

eweviT saqarTveloSi, rogori damo-

kidebuleba aqvT adgilobriv poli-

tikosebs, biznesmenebs Tqven mimarT?

_ arc erT maTganTan ar maqvs

kontaqti, gancalkevebiT vcxovrob,

mxolod naTesavebTan, axlo megob-

rebTan vurTierTob. aranairi poli-

tikuri ambicia ar gamaCnia, ubralod,

minda, sakuTar ojaxTan erTad mSvi-

dad vicxovro. Cems sofel Worvilas

xandaxan biznesis sakiTxebis mosagva-

reblad Tu vtoveb.

_ Tu es yvelaferi marTlac asea,

maSin ratom mimarTeT sasamarTlos

pativisa da Rirsebis dasacavad?

_ imitom, rom arasodes damikar-

gavs pativi da Rirseba, sindisis kar-

naxiT vcxovrobdi. am faseulobebis

aRdgenaze ki isini dafiqrdnen, vinc

Cemze sicrues werda.

maria roJkova, Âåäîìîñòè7 aprili, 2005 weli

15 gv. àr megona, rom miliarderi gavxdebodi~

17saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

im mxares, sadac Cv.w. aR-iiT I

saukuneSi andria pirvelwodebul-

ma da mataTa mociqulebma iqada-

ges, saakaSvilma da misma yaCaRebma

pirisagan miwisa aRgva gadauwyvi-

tes. saakaSvilis uniWo fantaziiT

“damSvenebuli” baTumi SarSan vi-

xile. amitom wels, universiteti-

dan gamogdebuli da mowafebis ana-

bara datovebuli dedaCemis SeTa-

vazebas davTanxmdi. “naCuqar cxens

kbilebs an usinjaven” da dapati-

Jebaze uari ar vTqvi, qobuleTSi

gavyevi. saakaSvilis “naqebi da ay-

vavebuli aWaris” nasaxs _ qobu-

leTSi ver naxavT. lamazi da

zrdili aWarlebiT ganTqmul mxa-

reSi, gaWirvebis miuxedavad, xal-

xi iseTive Tbili da gulRiaa, ro-

gorc adre. gakvirveba saakaSvilze

saubarma gamoiwvia. daSinebuli

Tbiliselebisgan gansaxvavebiT,

ver vnaxe aWareli, romelmac obi-

eqturi da marTali Sefaseba ar

misca saakaSvilis uTavbolo bo-

gins saqarTveloSi. erTma aWarel-

ma sinanuliT isic miTxra_ saakaS-

vili qobuleTs ise ar wyalobs,

rogorc baTumso. meorem ki daayo-

la, SesaZloa, kargic aris, Torem

aqaurobasac gaaTurqebdao. aWaris

gaTurqebis dasawyiss ki, 5-55-wwu-

Tis SualediT Camoqrolebu-

li“GeliK”, “SeS-TTaz”-iis warwere-

biani Tuqruli trailerebis meS-

veobiT, saqarTveloSi Turquli

porduqciis eqsapansiac metyve-

lebs. kolxeTis uZveles miwazec

alisa da ninos distrofiuli qan-

dakebebic amisTvis dadga da didad

amayobs. simboloebisadmi masonTa

gansakuTrebuli midrekilebebis

gaTvaliswinebiT, am qandakebebis

dadgmasac simboluri datvirTva

unda hqondes. mainca da mainc ni-

no (saxeli)- qarTvelTa ganmanaT-

leblis, mociqulTa sworis da

arabi “alis” dadgma, SemTxveviTo-

ba ar unda iyos! anu ramdenadac

ali, ideaSi, ninos “erT xorc

xdeba”, unda vivaraudoT, rom

“ali baba garekil I-ss Tavisi na-

cionali yaCaRebianad” ninos saxiT

alisgan saaqarTvelos gaxarWeba

ganuzraxavs. muslimTagan araerTg-

zis aoxrebul-ddapyrobil aWaraSi

arabuli arqiteqturis elemente-

bisa da wels ukve Cadriani irane-

li da arabi qalebis simravlec

_ amaze miuTiTebs. investorebad

Semosul Turq biznesmenebsac mSe-

neblebad Turqebi SemohyavT. inev-

storebma saqarTveloSi “monaTmf-

lobeli plantatorebis” funqcia

itvirTes. maT kompaniebSi dasaqme-

buli yvela qarTveli, faq-

tobrivad, monis pirobebze muSa-

obs. dapirebuli maRalxelfasiani

samuSao adgilebis nacvlad, eray-

Si sakontraqto xelSekrulebiT

gagzavnil qarTvelTa msgavsad,

aWaraSic qarTvelTa diskriminacia

xdeba. Turqi batonebis sastumro-

ebis mSeneblobebisas, maTi Camoyva-

nili muSa, ufaso sacxovrebliTac

da samjeradi kvebiTac uzrunvel-

yofilia. xelfassac eraySi “ame-

rikeli natoelebis” msgavsad, qar-

Tvelze orjer mets iRebs. sas-

tumroSi eqim-mmasaJistis adgilze

muSaobis dasawyebad misul qalba-

tonebs ki samuSaos im SemTxveva-

Si sTavazoben, Tu seqsmomsaxure-

bazec daTanxmdebian.?! anu xalxu-

ri eniT rom vTqvaT, eqimi dotis

msgavsad “ibozeben”. “garekil ali

baba I da misi nacionaluri yaCa-

Rebic”, romlebic, “kikus” msgav-

sad “fuli baba, bevri fulio”

eZaxian Tavian “miSa babas”. Tanax-

ma arian fulis sanacvlod saku-

Tari ded-mmamac ki gahyidon, araTu

samSoblo da sarwmunoeba. saakaS-

vili qobuleTs armenebiT avsebs,

baTums ki TurqebiT. saboloo

jamSi ki, saqarTvelos did haram-

hanad gadaqcevas gegmavs, sadac

msoflio seqsindustriaSi qarT-

vel gog-bbiWebs Caabams. aba baTumis

gei-aaRlumisTvis saxldaxelod ga-

keTebul saitebze, sxvadasxva sas-

tumroebSi, ucxoelebs, sxvadasxva

momsaxureobas tyuilad xom ar

sTavazobdnen? an “msoflioSi sa-

xelganTqmul anakliaSi” “nudis-

turi plaJis” mowyobas tyuilad

xom ar gegmavs? “pirveli qalba-

tonic,” 90-iiani wlebis dasawyis-

Si, 8 gogonasTan erTad, areul

saqarTveloSi SemTxveviT xom ar

Camosula? igive megruli, svanuri

da qarTuli dialeqtebic SemTxve-

viT xom ar uswavlia? arc “ali

baba garekils”, saqarTvelos moma-

val prezidents “SemTxveviT” rom

ar Sexvedria strasburgSi _ ama-

Sic eWvi aRaravis unda eparebo-

des. “amerikuli proeqtis es wyvi-

li Tavis yaCaRebianad” mizanmimar-

Tulad angrevs da anadgurebs sa-

qarTvelos. “pirveli qalbatoni”

sirinozis xmiT da angelozis sa-

xiT axla samegrelosTvis gakeTe-

buli klipidan gvimReris. “gamar-

joba, afaxazeTo Senis” da “koki-

Ti fandarastis” samaCabloze ga-

daRebulma klipebma es mxareebi

dagavakargvina. axla, SesaZloa, sa-

megrelosac, raRac amdagvars upi-

rebdnen. praqtika ase adasturebs.

miT ufro maSin, roca cxirvalSi

gamarjvebis aRsaniSnav aRlumSi

rusi samxedroebic apireben mona-

wileobas. vin icis, garekils ki-

dev ra garigeba aqvs maTTan?!

saakaSvili dafiJvinebuli “ka-

ligulas saxiT” turizmis ayvave-

bas gvpirdeba. misi “pirveli qal-

batoni” ki saqarTveloSi ganxor-

cilebeuli jandacvis yvela daman-

greveli proeqtis monawilea. Tum-

ca saakaSvilis gverdiT imdeni

“sirinozis xmiani” qalbatoni mom-

ravlda, rom xalxi ukve veRar

arkvevs, romelia pirveli da ro-

meli meore, an mesame?! “am siri-

nozTa galobas” A”ali baba gare-

kilis” gulis mosagebad miSavizi-

ebi 24-ssaaTian reJimSi atriale-

ben. arc isaa gamoricxuli, 24

000 000-aad Sefasebuli turiste-

bisTvis asaSenebeli saavadmyofoc,

swored is aRmoCndes, romelsac

saqarTveloSi organoebis transp-

lantaciisTvis aSeneben da arc,

rogorc boroti enebi saubroben,

rom “organoebiT vaWrobis am sa-

erTaSoriso qselis saqarTveloSi

mTavari kuratori” swored sta-

tusiT “pirveli qalbatonia”. imi-

tom, rom jandacvis proeqtebze

eqskluzivi saqarTveloSi mas ga-

aCnia! saakaSvils saqarTvelo da

qarTvelebi ise sZuls, rom SesaZ-

leblobis SemTxvevaSi, saqarTve-

los gulsac amoglejda. Tumda

agvistos omiT es nawilobriv ga-

akeTa kidec. afxazeTs ki, rogorc

ZirZvel dakargul miwa-wwyals, uk-

ve aRarc ki axsenebs. Amboben, mis

aRiarebasac apirebs kideco?! axla

ki ‘”aWaris siyvarulis buSti aqvs

gaxeTqili”. specialurad, ramde-

nime asiaTasad gadaRebul filmSi

“mziani saqarTvelo” or Jurna-

lists baTumSi gamoyenebul evro-

puli arqiteqturis elementebze

esaubreba. evro-

pulze metad ba-

TumSi islamuri

elementebi rom

sWarbobs, amaze

arafers ambobs.

”garekili ali

Tavisi nacionali

yaCaRebianad” Tbi-

lissa da Tbilise-

lebs arCevenebis

wagebis gamo rom

ver itans, axali

araa. Tumca sapre-

zidentod gamzade-

buli ugulavas sa-

winaaRmdegod, aWa-

raSi metad sainte-

reso faqti aRmo-

vaCine?! nu ityviT

da denze mibmuli

nagvis tarific da

samrSruto taqse-

bis gaZvirebac Tu-

rme mxolod Tbi-

liselebis sulis

amosaZrobad sagrialo fulebis

amosaqaCad, eqskluziurad Tbili-

sisTvis SemoiRes.

“ali baba garekil I-ss” qobu-

leTis gaTurqebis sakiTxze metad

sCans qobuleTis gaarmeneba aqvs

ganzraxuli, naTelia. armeniaSi

swavla pirvel seqtembers iwyeba.

CemisTana qarTvelebic, mSvidi da-

sasvenebisTvis, da qarTul mxare-

Si dasvenebas am dros arCevs. swo-

red seqtembris dasawyisSi Cadis

aWaraSi. miuxedavad amisa, sruli

SegrZneba iyo, rom armeniis mier

oupirebul regionSi imyofebodi.

armenuli warwerebi, simRerebi da

yvelgan armenuli saubari amis

srul gancdas iwvevda. marTalia,

Cvenma mTavrobam, saqarTveloSi da

aWaraSi “turizmis ayvavebiT” yu-

rebi gamogviWeda. Tumca is ar

icis, rom am tiraJirebuli tu-

rizmis infrastruqturas aWaraSi

mtrebi gamouCnda. Cveni sastumros

win mdebare bungalos restoranSi

SuaRamemde erTmaneTs gamayruebe-

li xmiT, qarTuli, rusuli da

somxuri simRerebi cvlida. dasas-

veneblad Camosuli turistebisad-

mi aseTma adgebulma damokidebu-

lebam, kerZo vizitiT Camusuli

amerikeli turistebic ki aRaSfo-

Ta da maT saswrafod datoves qo-

buleTi. aRsaniSnavia, rom xsenebu-

li bungalo yofil gamgebels_

vinme noRaidels ekuTvnis. miuxe-

davad “ali baba garekil I-iis” da-

qadnebuli araklanurobisa, yofi-

li gamgeblis “sviazebi”qobuleT-

Si isev “Wris”. Sewuxebuli dams-

veneblebisgan araerTgzis gamoZa-

xebuli patruli ki, xSirad Rame-

ul RriancelSi monawileobas Ta-

vad agrZelebda. rac ara marto

“saakaSvilis turizmis infrastr-

qurturas”, aramed merabiSvilis

policiis mier mopovebul avto-

ritetsac laxavs. miuxedavad imi-

sa, rom Ramis yoveli Rreoba po-

liciis himniT iwyeboda da srul-

deboda. Ramis sam saaTze mainc ga-

sakviri mosasmeni iyo, gamayruebe-

li xmiT namReri _ “dRes simsSvi-

de aris Cveni mizanio”. gansakuT-

rebuli interesi CemSi simReram _

“ß ëþáëþ òåáÿ Ðîññèÿ“-mm gamoiw-via. marTalia, “ruseTis” nacvlad,

momRerlebis “rostovs” ambobd-

nen, magram rostovic ruseTis na-

wilad ar moiazreba? Aai, garekil

rogor pativs scemen Sens tu-

rizms da amave dros, rogor uy-

varT Seni “saZulveli ruseTi”?!

Cvens sastumroSi erevnidan

Camosuli ori qaliSvili isveneb-

da. qarTuli stumarT-mmaspinZlo-

bidan gamomdinare, sakmaod Tbili

da kargi uTierTobebi dagvimyara-

da. sakmaod, ganaTlebulma da kar-

gad aRzrdilma 34 wlis qalba-

tonma, armenebis uaryofiTi damo-

kidebuleba garegin II-iis mimarT

Riad daafiqsira. garegin II-ss

Turme ieRovelebisa da mormone-

bis seqtebi, sxva seqtebTan er-

Tad, religiis rangSi auyvania da

Tavad armenul eklesiaSic gan-

xeTqilebaa amis Taobazeo. stefa-

nianis provokatorul saqmianoba-

zec visaubreT da swori informa-

ciis gacvlisTvis, erTmaneTis

“imeilebic” gavcvaleT. “warmoSo-

biT javaxeTidan var, iq davibade,

erevanSi vcxovrob da yovel

zafxuls me da mamaCemi Cvens so-

felSi, “Cvens faravnis” tbaze

davdivarTo”. mogviyva 15 wlis ge-

nocdizec. rogoria? armeniidan,

adamianebi rogorc sakuTar so-

felSi, ise dadian saqarTvelos

teritoriaze. an gasakviri raa,

rodesac “ ali baba garekil I-iisa

da misi nacionali yaCaRebis xel-

Si, saqarTvelos sazRvrebis de-

markaciac ar aris gakeTebuli.

romel mezobels, rogorc unda

ise moiwevs da gvaWris miwa-

wyals. “ormagi moqalaqeoba unda

aviRo da qarTuli unda viswav-

loo”_ miTxra armenma erminem.

“is ki ara, karg qarTvel biWsac

SeiZleba gavyve, oRond cota ar-

menuli sisxlic unda erioso”.

armenebis prezidentis, serJ sar-

qisianis gancxadebas Tu gaviTva-

liswinebT, is javaxeTis mosaxe-

lobisTvis armenulis regionalu-

r enad aRiarebas moiTxovs,

oRond principiT _ “integracia

asimilaciis gareSe”. es ki karg

qarTvelTan, Tundac “cota arme-

nuli sisxliT narevTan” urTier-

Tobas gamoricxavs. ase rom, Cems

axal nacnobs _ ermines qarTvel-

ze gaTxoveba ar uweria?! misive

monaTxrobiT, armenebs hgoniaT,

rom saqarTvelo yvavis. armeniaSi

iseTive gaWirveba yofila, ro-

gorc CvenTan. (Cveni regionebis

msagavsad, rasac televiziiT uyu-

reben sjeraT, rom biznesebi damo-

ukidebelia, gadasaxadebi dabali

da pensia uzarmazari. ”me aq Ca-

movdivar da vici, simarTle rac

ariso”. iqneb armeniaSi simarTle

rom gaigon _ saqarTvelos Tavi

daanebon?! “javaxkSi”, rogorc

ermine uwodebs javaxeTs, bevrsaa

aqvs armenuli pasporti. es ki

afxazeTSi da samaCabloSi mezobe-

li qveynis pasportebis darigebis

analogias waagavs. “garekil ali I

da nacionali yaCaRebi” arc amaze

“ibartyuneben yurs”. metic, sa-

qarTvelos istorias amaxinjeben

da cvlian. Cems axal nacnobTan

saubrebisas mivxvdi, rom maT da-

badebidan araswor istorias as-

wavlian da unergaven, rom javaxe-

Ti maTi istoriuli miwaa?! ro-

gor, javaxeTSi 30-iian wlebSi da-

saxldiT-TTqo vuTxari. Tqvens ge-

nocidze rom saubrob, 18-119

wlis, TbilisSi armenebis SemoW-

ra da axalgazrda oficrebis

amowyvetac gaixsene-TTqo. amis Se-

saxeb araferi smenia da gaocebu-

li mismenda. vkiTxe, aq daibade.

mogwons. aravin gagdebs aqedan.

gaTxovebasac ki apireb da sabo-

lood, saqarTveloSi javaxeTis

bedi rogor warmogidgeniaT java-

xeTis armenebs-TTqo? Cven, armenebs,

yarabaRis msagavsad, “javaxeTis”

avtonomia warmogvidgenia, oRond

gveSinia ferganis msgavsi movle-

nebi ar ganmeordeso. aucileblad

ganmeordeba-mmeTqi. Cven imdeni mi-

wa-wwyali davkargeT, sxvaTa So-

ris, nawili Tqvens teritoriad

iTvleba, rom qarTvelebi dRes

amas aRar daTmoben-mmeTqi. am axal-

gazrda qals javaxeTi marTla Ta-

visi miwa-wwyali hgonia. bavSvobi-

dan ase aswavlian da misi brali

ar aris. seriozuli muSaoba, sa-

mecniero doneze istoriuli wya-

roebis wamowevaa saWiro. faqtia,

rom aseTi adamianebis ukan bevria

“daSnakuri organizaciebis” pro-

vokatori agentebi.

qveynis realuri aRmSenebloba

da istoriuli kanonierebis aRd-

gena da qveynis samarTlebriv, sa-

erTaSoriso CarCoebSi Casma, pir-

vel etapze, 1801 wlis kanoniere-

bis aRdgeniT unda daviwyoT da

TandaTan mivyveT yvelafers. anu

konstituciur monarqiaze gadavi-

deT. amiT Cvens miwa-wwyalze mezo-

beli saxelmwifoebis uzomo ma-

dasac avlagmavT. evropul monar-

qiul ojaxSi SesvliT ki avtoma-

turad im ganviTrebadi qveynis

statusidanac gamovalT, ris ga-

moc gaanadgures yvelaferi. amas,

TavisTavad, ganaTlebis, jandacvi-

sa da a.S normaluri done mohy-

veba. avcdebiT mona-mmosamsaxure

erad Camoyalibebasac. araqarTu-

li warmomavlobis mmarTvelis

Tavgasul parpaSsa da ucxo qvey-

nidan marTul, marionet prezi-

dentsac. imitom, rom “ali baba

garekil I-iisa da misi nacionali

yaCaRebisa” da igive opozicione-

ri politikosebis xelSi, saqar-

TveloSi qarTvel kacs bednieri

cxovreba ar uweria. axal mosu-

li prezidenric, sabolood, sa-

Tavisod moixmars saqarTvelos

da vin icis, kidev ras moimoqme-

debs.

baia amaSukeli

ali baba da nacionaliyaCaRebi

18 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

Wkvianma icis da gkiTxavs

Cemi mizani dReidan aRar

aris did qarTul politikaSi

gamoCenili biZina ivaniSvilis

Rvawlsa da kaiymobaze wera. Cven

amaze ukve saerTo, Camoyalibebu-

li mosazreba gvaqvs. panegirikas

unda SeveSvaT, eiforiidan gamo-

videT da saqmes mivxedoT, saqmiT

davdgeT am kacs gverdiT da arc

is daviviwyoT, rom amiT mas ki

ar davexmarebiT, aramed mamuls,

momavals da sakuTar Tavs.

raSi unda gamoixatos es Ta-

nadgoma?

uwinaresad, am etapze, saqmi-

ani winadadebebisa da rCevebis

gacxadebaSi. qarTvelma sazoga-

doebriobam sainformacio saSa-

lebebiT unda Seqmnas rCevebisa

da ideebis Taviseburi banki, ro-

melsac batoni biZina da misi

Stabi daamuSaveben, riTac erTis

mxriv sworad dainaxaven da Ta-

vidan aicileben riskebs, meres

mxriv ki efeqturad `daaziane-

ben~ mowinaaRmdegis `sacecxle

wertilebs~.

gasagebia, rom axla uamrav

patriots aqvs baton biZinasTan

Sexvedris da gasaubrebis survi-

li, magram es gamoricxulia ori

mizezis gamo: pirveli _ uzarma-

zari nakadis axlo xanebSi miRe-

ba praqtikulad ganuxorcilebe-

lia; meore _ es mizanSeuwonelia

usafrTxoebis TvalsazrisiT.

amdenad, vfiqrobT, TanamS-

romlobis aseTi forma pirvel

etapze yovelanairad gamarTle-

bulia, xolo batoni biZina, ime-

dia, erTi sparsuli sibrZniT ga-

mogvexmaureba: `Wkvianma icis da

gkiTxavs, uWkuom ar icis da ar

gkiTxavs~.

mamuli, ena,

sarwmunoeba

batono biZina, is, vinc Tqve-

ni mimarTvebi da interviuebi wa-

ikiTxa, SeuZlebelia Tqvens siq-

veleSi (siqvele martooden

qvelmoqmedeba araa, igi uSiSro-

ba da vaJkacobac aris _ gavixse-

noT farsman qveli) da mamuliS-

vilobaSi daeWvdes. magram es

imedi da ndoba kidev ufro gaib-

rwyinebs Tu sityvebTan _`demok-

ratia~, `Tavisufleba~, `Taname-

gobroba~ da sxva misTanasTan

erTad xSirad gaiJRerebs: èri~,

`mamuli~, `samSoblo~, `qarTuli

cnobiereba~, ìlia~ da sxva. pir-

veli noembris preskonferencia-

ze marTlac sanimuSo gamosvlis

gvirgvini iyo winadadeba: `me

vxedavdi, rom vkargavdi samSob-

los da politikaSi amitom mo-

vedi~. gulis siRrmidan daZrul-

ma am sityvebma milionobiT qar-

Tvelis gulSi gaiara. ar dagaeW-

voT iman, rom Rirseuli winap-

rebis saxelis xsenebis gamo vin-

mem fariseveli xelisuflebis

wevrebTan gaavlos paraleli.

mTavaria, romeli WurWlidan

gadmoedineba sityva.

samSoblos rom siyvarulSi

gamoutydebi adamiani, amas ras

sjobs, miTumetes maSin, roca

bolomde gaqvs SegrZnobili misi

fesvebi da am fesvebis naJuri.

saqarTvelo ar aris is qveyana,

romelmac evropelobiT unda

ikeklucos (sul sxvaa masTan

mWidro TanamSromloba, riskenac

yovelTvis iswrafvoda Cveni qve-

yana). masxendeba markiz de kius-

tenis sityvebi: `me rusebs ar

vkicxav imisTvis, rac namdvilad

arian, magram vgmob maT survils

Tavi evropelebad mogvaCvenon...

SeiZleboda imedi ar dagvekarga

maTi kulturuli SeTvisebisa,

rom maimunebiviT ar baZavdnen

sxva erebs da imavdroulad ar

dascinodnen maT, visac baZaven~.

es naTqvami martooden rusebs

rodi Seexeba. mimbaZveloba gansa-

kuTrebiT damamcirebelia iseTi

erisTvis, romelic uZvelesi

msoflio civilizaciis wiaRSi

warmoiSva da Camoyalibda. Cveni

sisxlismieri gancda, sulieri

mimoqcva da warmosaxva, Cveni

qmedeba Cvens enaSi, simReraSi,

rokvaSi, samiwaTmoqmedo kultu-

raSi da kosmogonur warmodge-

nebSia. ai, amas gulisxmobs ili-

aseuli triada `mamuli, ena,

sarwmunoeba~ (da ara èna, mamu-

li sarwmunoeba~, rogorc e.w.

`cnobadi saxeebi~ warmosTqvamen

SecdomiT). ai, am triadas unda

davubrunoT bolo Jams dabeCave-

buli Cveni eri, raTa kvlavac ma-

radisobas gausworos Tvali.

Tu gsurs mSvidoba,

emzade omisTvis!

misasalmebelia `xelisufle-

bis~ (ratom vsvam am sityvas

brWyalebSi, odnav qveviT mogax-

senebT) mSvidobinad, arCevnebiT

Secvlis survili, quCis aqcieb-

ze da mitingebze uaris Tqma. ki,

rogor ara, oRond im SemTxveva-

Si, roca saqme gvaqvs cud an

Tundac Zalian cud xelisufle-

basTan, axla ki Cven Sinaur

mters vupirispirdebiT. sxvaTa-

Soris, es Tqvens mierac iyo

gacxadebuli pirveli noembris

preskonfereniaze.

XIV saukuneSi cnobili qar-

Tveli Tavadi da sazogado moR-

vawe qucna amirejibi niadag aR-

ma-daRma dahqroda da diploma-

tiiT cdilobda lang-Temuris

laSqrobebis Sekavebas, avadmyo-

furi fsiqikis dampyrobma ki ma-

inc rvajer aaoxra saqarTvelo.

me ara mgonia, rom sulieri

mdgradobiT saakaSvili bevrad

ukeTesi iyos lang-Temurze.

batono biZina, rogorc xse-

nebul preskonferenciaze brZa-

neT, im SemTxvevaSic ki Tu saa-

kaSvils Tundac mis mier morge-

bul konstituciur CarCoebSi

ver daabrunebT da igi xalxis

nebas win aRudgeba, Tqven sxva

saSualebebiT SesZlebT mis `da-

SoSminebas~ (es ukanaskneli Cemi

sityva _ g.q.).

intuicia mkarnaxobs, rom

Tqven martooden saerTaSoriso

zewolisa da xalxis nebis gamo-

xatulebis imedi ara gaqvT, da

ar gaqvT imitom, rom, I. Tundac

aSS-is zewolisa Tu rCevis miu-

xedavad saakaSvilis gadadgomis

imedi minimaluria. mas

moulodnelad romc ga-

uCndes aseTi survili,

Zneli dasajerebelia,

`saqmeSi gasulma~ Tu

gasvrilma Tanagunde-

lebma amis neba darTon.

II. xalxis nebis mSvido-

bian gamoxatulebas es

reJimi fizikur Zalas

daupirispirebs. simarT-

le mogaxsenoT, didi

daZabulobiTa da SiSiT

vuyurebdi preskonfe-

rencias, romelsac SeiZ-

leboda `JurnalistTa~

Soris dapirispireba da

inspirirebuli Cxubi

mohyoloda, rac, albaT,

Tqvens rezidenciaSi

specnazis SemoWriT

dasruldeboda. gavixse-

noT `kavkasiis~ magali-

Ti. Tu am mcdelobas

Tqvens teritoriaze

naklebi warmateba elis,

sxvagan win veraferi da-

udgeba.

Rrmad viyoT darw-

munebuli, rom saTanado

uwyebebSi ramdenime mz-

akvruli proeqti igeg-

meba, maT Soris teraq-

tebi da TviTteraqtebi,

fsevdoopoziciuri partiebis mi-

er mowyobili manifestaciebi da

areulobebi, Tqveni `momxreebis~

aRiarebiTi Cvenebebi da Tqven

warmoidgineT, saomari moqmedebe-

bic ki romelime ajanyebuli re-

gionis~ winaaRmdeg. am ukanask-

nel varauds mxars ubams ruse-

Tis dazvervis Sefis al. Sliax-

turovis bolo gancxadeba afxa-

zeTsa da cxinvalis regionSi

mosalodneli provokaciebis Se-

saxeb. erTi sityviT, sabolood,

xalxis quCaSi gamosvlas da Za-

lasTan Zalis dapirispirebas

mxolod saswauli Tu agvaci-

lebs, politikur brZolaSi ki

saswaulebi ar xdeba. mwams, am

ambavs arc Tqven gamoricxavT,

magram ori mizezis gamo ver am-

xelT: erTi imitom, rom gulw-

rfelad ar gsurT e.w. kadafiza-

cia da meorec imitom, rom... es

meore mizezi, modiT, marto Cven

vicodeT.

yvelas megobari

aravis megobari araa

sicruea is, rom viTomdac

politikaSi megobroba ar arse-

bobs, _ politikanebis moWorili

ambavia es. roca politikaSi

eriskacebi midian, maSin samSob-

los siyvaruliT gulanTebuli

adamianebi, Tundac gansxvavebuli

xasiaTisani, aucileblad megobr-

debian. amis magaliTi zviadi da

merabi iyvnen. magram amasTanave

`yvelas megobari aravis megobari

ara aris~-o ambobda platoni.

diaxac, saqarTvelos gamTli-

anebisa da gamarjvebis mosurne

kacma yvelasTan unda iTanamS-

romlos, magram yvelasTan, gansa-

kuTrebiT ki iseT politikur

ZalebTan damegobreba, romelTac

kviraSi Svidi paraskevi aqvT da

viTarca lerwamni niavis mcireo-

den daqrolvazec aqeT-iqiT ir-

wevian, miuRebelia. miuRebelia

es imitom, rom sazogadoeba maT

safuZvlianad ar endoba.

mliqvnelebis amocnoba io-

lia, farisevlebisa ki rTuli.

farisevlebi Rupaven ideebs,

saqmeebs, qveynebsa da xalxebs.

farisevlebma awames macxova-

ri.

fariseveli is kacia, rome-

lic ar mliqvnelobs da imanWe-

ba TavkacTan, magram yvelafers

sakuTar interesebs anacvalebs,

sityviT da gamoxedviT eriska-

cia, magram Tvals miefareba Tu

ara, saTavisod Wris da keravs.

arcTu ise didi xnis winaT

Tqveni da Tqveni fondis saxeli-

Ta da Rvawlis xsenebiT erTma

diacma Tqvens mona-morCils cu-

di saqme moswia _ erovnuli saq-

mis keTebaSi xeli SeuSala. am

ambis gamowvlilviT Tqma axla

arc egebis da arc amis droa,

magram gaxsenebiT imitom gavix-

sene, rom momavalSi aseTi reci-

divebi aviciloT Tavidan.

ager, batono, mere faqti:

Tqven rom erT-erT politikur

partias TanamromSloba SesTava-

zeT, imave Tu meore dRes misma

erT-erTma liderma `kavkasiis~

eTerSi ise isaubra, TiTqos,

sxva politikuri Zalebis arCeva,

TqvenTan erTad misi partiis

prerogativac iyo. ai, farisev-

lobis erTi aSkara magaliTi!

RvTis gulisaTvis, mendeT, rasac

vambob _ aseTia yvela patrio-

tis gancda, mendeT aseve, rom

patriotTa umetesoba, romelic

uaRresad gaxarebulia biZina

ivaniSvilis did politikaSi da

brZolis velze gamoCeniT, gu-

lis kuTxeSi mcire tkivils ma-

inc ganicdis uyuradRebobis ga-

mo. isini imasac xvdebian, rom

SesaZloa, brZolis pirvel etap-

ze, `politikuri Calmac~ auci-

lebelia, magram Tu saxlis ba-

lavari sworad ar daido, kede-

li, rkinisac rom iyos, mainc ga-

daiqceva. aris erTi aseTi WeSma-

ritebac: niWieri kaci erTxel

imedi meore sulia


internetSi


19saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

Tu SemogTavazebs sakuTar samsaxurs, uni-

Wo ki kars agitalaxebs. amitom niWier

kacs, gulanTebul patriots Sen unda da-

uZaxo. yvelaze niWieri is aris, visac ni-

Wieri uyvars.

endeT, magram SeamowmeT Tqveni axlobe-

li politikuri Tanamzraxvelebi: vis uwe-

ven da vis ara rekomendacias. Tavadac

TqviT da aqamdec icoda xalxma, rom biZi-

na ivaniSvili kadrebs jer profesionaliz-

mis, mere ki patiosnebisa da megobrobis mi-

xedviT arCevs. gTxovT, am CamonaTvals Tav-

Si daumatoT `patriotizmi~, an arada, ro-

gorc cxonebuli revaz TabukaSvili ityo-

da, visurvebdi profesionalizmi patrio-

tizmis erT-erTi umTavresi gamoxatuleba

iyos TqvenTvis.

ena uklitod morbedi

RvTis gangeba aseTia: Wkviani kaci mci-

reds saubrobs, suleli an avanturisti _

bevrs. kargad uTqvams la oZis _ `brZeni

dums, umecari laybobs~-o, magram arc vax-

tang VI-is naTqvamia naklebi: èna uklitod

morbedi, Wiria ulxinobeli~. qarTvelma

kacma kargad icis am sibrZnis yadri _ er-

Txel ki mousmens soflis Saraze gamomd-

gar òqropirs~, magram mere da mere yurs

aRar aTxovebs da yeeniviT gaamasxravebs.

Svidi welia am dReSia qarTveli kaci, Svi-

di welia neronis usamarTlobiT, takimas-

xarobiTa da sisuleleebiT itanjeba. amas

imitom vambob, rom biZina ivaniSvilis ga-

moCeniT da misi sidarbaisliT gulze moe-

fina sazogadoebas: ampartavnebis wil did-

sulovneba, mtrobis wil siyvaruli, mSiS-

robis wil vaJkacoba, laybobis wil mozo-

mili sityva gaigona da dainaxa. imaze didi

piari ra unda iyos TqvenTvis, rom sakuTa-

ri personiT arasdros SegibezrebiaT Tavi

xalxisTvis. merwmuneT, es 5,5 miliardze

naklebi qoneba ar aris da misi gaflangva

politikuri gakotrebis tolfasi iqneba.

Cemi, rogorc erTi rigiTi qarTvelisa

da amomrCevlis survilia, rom Tqveni saxe

da sityva arc amas aqeT gacvTes. xalxis

winaSe sajaro da satelevizio gamosvlebi

kvlavac mkacrad reglamentirebuli iyos,

xolo sityva Zalian mokle da konkretu-

li. SeiZleba ar gesiamovnoT an iucxooT,

magram am mxriv, stalinis gamocdileba uni-

kaluria. zeviT naTqvamidan gamomdinare, Se-

iZleba gakvirveba gamoiwvios Cemma meore

survilma: saWiroa kidev ufro gaaqtiure-

ba, oRond ise, rom kulminacias saWiro

dros miaRwios. ismis SekiTxva: rogor un-

da gaaqtiurdeT Tu televiziiT da sajaro

gamosvlebiT ipasiurebT. ai, aq aris saWi-

ro iseTi gundi politikuri mociqulebi-

sa, romelTac darbaiseli oratorebisa da

WeSmariti mamuliSvilebis reputacia aqvT.

aRebuli tempis dagdeba ar SeiZleba. es

pirveli SemTxvevaa, roca e.w. xelisufle-

ba sakuTari karis usafrTxoebaze gadaer-

To da TamaSi mis naxevarze mimdinareobs.

safexburTo enaze rom vTqvaT, Setevebi un-

da gagrZeldes manamde, sanam mowinaaRmdege

sabolood ar danebdeba, jerjerobiT ki an-

gariSi mxolod 1:0-ia. sakmarisia, seriozu-

li kontrSeteva gamogveparos, rom yvela-

feri wyalSi gadaiyreba.

zeviT ramdenime xifaTi da kontrSete-

va ki vaxseneT, magram araferi gviTqvams

iseT sibilweebze, rogoricaa piradad

Tqveni da Tqveni ojaxis Seuracxyofis

survili, Worebis agoreba, daqiravebuli

piitikosebis skabrezuli gaaqtiureba da

a.S. Tu simSvides SevinarCunebT, am Seteve-

bis mogerieba ar gagviWirdeba, radgan am

mxriv aqeT gacilebiT didi resursia. Ta-

nac xom viciT, rom, roca sayaned Waobian

niadags vamzadebT, bayayebis yiyinsac unda

SeveguoT.

SeiZleba bevrma gaikvirvos Tu rodidan

movkide xeli iseT umadur saqmes, rogoric

mrCevlobaa da romeli solomon lioni- Ze

var, magram aris Jami, roca umoqmedoba da

dumili Ralatia. me aq vdgavar da sxvagva-

rad ar ZalmiZs!

Cveni samSoblo axla Zalian gaWirvebu-

lia, gaWirvebulisaTvis ki imedi meore su-

lia.

imedi gamoCnda, magram Tu igi daikarga,

saqarTvelo erTxans suliT daobldeba.

gela qoqiaSvili

Sss-s generaluri inspeqciis ufros

vasil sanoZis daWris ambavma mexis ga-

vardnis efeqti gamoiwvia. oficialuri

versiiT, TiTqos mas tabeluri iaraRi

gauvarda da Tavis areSi daiWra, Tumca

sazogadoebam es informacia naklebad

daijera. isic iTqva, rom daWramde sano-

Ze restoran `puris saxlSi~ imyofebo-

da da iqauroba nasvam mgomareobaSi

myofma datova. am sufraze ramdenime

adamiani iyo, maT Soris frangi stumre-

bic. Sss-s administraciis ufrosma So-

Ta xizaniSvilma oficialuri informa-

cia gaavrcela, rom sanoZes iaraRi sa-

kuTar binaSi gauvarda.

sanoZis mezoblebis TqmiT, misi bini-

dan xmauri ki SemoesmaT, Tumca iaraRi-

dan gasrolis xma ar gaugoniaT. am in-

formaciam garkveuli eWvi maSinve gaaCi-

na. ise vrceldeboda xmebi, rom sanoZes

an esroles, anda Tavis mokvla aiZules.

uflebadamcvelebi am incidents sandro

girgvlianis mkvlelobis saqmes ukavSi-

rebdnen, radgan swored im periodSi ga-

moitana evrosasamarTlom am saqmeze ga-

dawyvetileba. mkvlelobis mcdelobaa

Tu TviTmkvlelobis, am saqmeSi xeli-

suflebis xeli ureviao.

sanoZe ,,saswrafo daxmarebis~ avto-

manqaniT gadaiyvanes RuduSauris klini-

kaSi da dacvis zomebi ise iyo gaZlie-

rebuli, saavadmyofoSi pacientebsac ki

ar uSvebdnen. mogvianebiT, mZimed daWri-

li sanoZe israelis erT-erT klinikaSi

gadaiyvanes da male es ambavi yvelas mi-

aviwyda. sad imyofeba sanoZe da ra mdgo-

mareobaSia, amis Sesaxeb xelisufleba

dums. `saerTo gazeTs~ isic uTxres,

rom igi gamonjarmTelda, saqarTveloSi

dabrunda da Sss-Si Tanamdebobazec da-

niSnes, Tumca am faqts ar axmaurebeno.

sanoZis irgvliv rom Savi Rrubeli

grovdeboda, amis Sesaxeb bevrad adre

gaxda cnobili. mas prokuratu-

rasTan dapirispireba, rom hqonda

da mis winaaRmdeg es uwyeba kom-

promatebs rom agrovebda, es in-

formacia masmediiT zafxulSi

gavrcelda. sanoZis daWrasac am

faqts ukavSirebdnen. sanoZem pro-

kuraturis ramdenime TanamSrome-

li daaWerina da SurisZiebis miz-

niT, prokuraturas misi daWerac

undoda qrTamis aRebis braldebi-

To. sabolood am yvelafers yo-

fili policieli Seewira, ro-

melsac e.w. TaRliTobisTvis 12

weli miusajes, radgan man sano-

Zis sawinaaRmdego Cveneba ar mis-

ca.

cota xnis win `saerTo ga-

zeTs~ anonimurma wyarom sagu-

lisxmo informacia miawoda, ro-

melic sanoZis daWris mizezebs ki ara

Tavad daWris faqtsac eWvqveS ayenebs.

Cven am informaciis sizusteze Tavs ver

davdebT, magram yvela versias aqvs arse-

bobis ufleba, amitom Tavs valdebulad

vTvliT mkiTxvels mivawodoT. miTume-

tes, rom, rogorc gviTxres, es samTav-

robo wreebidan gamoJonili informa-

ciaa.

sazogadoebas kargad axsovs im fex-

burTelebis ambavi, romlebic e.w. gayi-

dul matCebs TamaSobdnen. es fexburTe-

lebi ki dasajes, magram saqme aqve Sewy-

da. vin ukveTavda maT aseT TamaSebs sa-

zogadoebisTvis ucnobi darCa. wyaros

informaciiT, am `biznesSi~ kargad gaTv-

lili sqema muSaobda, romelsac mera-

biSvilis uwyeba kurirebda. uSualod ki

vasil sanoZe xelmZRvanelobda.

axla ki konkretulad am sqemaze vi-

saubroT. mogexsenebaT, totalizatore-

bi mTel msoflioSi da maT Soris azi-

is qveynebSic muSaobs. uceb aRmoCnda,

rom yazaxeTSi, uzbekeTSi, yirgizeTSi

da ufro metic, CineTSi viRac-

viRacebi Zalze seriozul fso-

nebs debdnen qarTul safexbur-

To gundebze, Tumca jobs, Cvens

wyaros movusminoT:

`100.000 aSS dolarze nak-

lebi arcerTi fsoni ar yofi-

la. ranairi gulSematkivari

unda iyos Tbiliseli kaci Tun-

dac Tbilisis `dinamosi~, rom

yazaxeTsa da CineTSi Cavides

totalizatorSi fsonis dasa-

debad. gaxsovT, gayidul Tama-

Sebze rusTavis òlimpikis~ da

sxva gundebis fexburTelebi Ca-

vardnen. Cinelebma da yazaxebma

mgoni isic ar ician, sad aris

rusTavi da samtredia. cxadia,

rom am gundebze qarTvelebi

debdnen fsons, romlebic Sss-s

TanamSromlebi iyvnen, maT So-

ris yofila sanoZec. igi uSua-

lod xelmZRvanelobda am yvelafers. es

fsonebi iseT xalxis saxeliT ideboda,

romelTa gaSifvrac, cxadia, xelisuf-

lebas ar awyobda. dadebdnen am 100.000-

s Tu milions da zustad ise damTavr-

deboda TamaSi, rogorc winaswar iyo

gaTvlili. amiT ki ormag Tanxas igebd-

nen. xsenebul qveynebSi uzarmazari to-

talizatorebia, sadac Zalze didi fu-

li trialebs. specialurad SearCies

iseTi qveynebi, sadac ufro gulubryvi-

lo xalxi cxovrobs. amxela fsonebma

da mogebebma zeda eSelonebSi eWvi gaa-

Cina da daiwyo gamoZieba. cxadia, viRa-

caze unda gasuliyven. gavidnen kidec,

magram maTi gaSifvra ar awyobdaT. adg-

nen da am yvelafers Seswires sanoZe,

iseve rogorc, Tavis droze irakli ko-

dua. ki imizezeben raRacebs, magram yve-

lam xom icis, rom kodua realurad,

iaraRis bizness Seewira. sodi faq-

tobrivad, gaauqmes da mas Sss-Si sakma-

od mokrZalebuli Tanamdeboba misces.

sanoZe rom daeWiraT, alaparakdebo-

da, rac xelisuflebas ar awyobda. am

qveynebidan uzarmazari Tanxebia wamoRe-

buli da saeWvoa, rom amiT marto igi

sargeblobda. amitomac gaiTamaSes es

daWris scena, rom sanoZe saqarTvelodan

moeSorebinaT. saqme imaSia, rom Turme

is sasikvdilod daWrili arc yofila.

an iyo ki saerTod daWrili (sanoZis me-

zoblebmac xom Tqves, rom gasrolis xma

ar gaugiaT – m.s.)? sxvaTa Soris eqime-

bisgan gamovida es informacia. mere ise

gaaformes yvelaferi, rom TiTqos qor-

wilidan wamosul sanoZes SemTxveviT

gauvarda iaraRi da uceb moaSores aqa-

urobas, viTom samkurnalod gauSves. Tu

ar Cacxreboda am totalizatorebTan

dakavSirebuli ambebi, mere albaT, imasac

ityodnen, rom mokvdao. sulac aRar Ca-

movidoda igi saqarTveloSi da romeli-

me qveyanaSi icxovrebda.

Caawyves es yvelaferi da im ramdeni-

me fexburTelze gadatexes joxi, mola-

parakebuli iyvnen da Cawyobil TamaSebs

TamaSobdneno. visTan iyvnen molaparake-

buli, imaze ratom ar gavidnen? aq Ca-

awyobdnen saqmes, vis rogor unda eTama-

Sa, miscemdnen maT 5-5 aTas dolars,

TviTon ki milionebs igebdnen. mere dai-

Wires es sawyali xalxi, viRacas samu-

damod aukrZales fexburTis TamaSi da

amiT damTavrda yvelaferi~.

verafers vityviT, mSvenieri sqemaa

fulis saSovnelad da miT umetes gasa-

TeTreblad. ise, saeWvoa, xelisufleba

am mogebebis kanonierebiT dainteresebu-

liyo, magram Turme aziis qveynebSi ise-

Ti siswrafiT kotrdeboda totaliza-

torebi, rom Tavad am qveynebSi gaCenila

eWvi. etyoba, kvalma saqarTvelosTan mo-

iyvana da nacxelisufleba iZulebuli

gaxda `gadamWreli zomebi~ mieRo.

manana suxiSvili

ukavSirdeba Tu ara vasil sanoZis daWris ambavi totalizatorebSi momxdar

saerTaSoriso xasiaTis afioras?

20 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

ggvveessaauubbrreebbaa

leliko jafariZe.

__ bbaattoonnoo lleelliikkoo,, xxeellii-

ssuufflleebbaaSSii aarreeuulloobbaa ddaawwyyeebbuu-

llaa,, TTqqvveenn xxoomm aarraaffeerrii iicciiTT

aammiiss SSeessaaxxeebb??

_ minda danamdvilebiT

giTxraT is, rac Cemi yuriT

movismine. mirekaven guriidan,

samegrelodan, svaneTidan, sam-

cxe-javaxeTidan iseTi xalxi,

sul rom cali fexiT Camomki-

don, mainc ver vityvi maT

gvar-saxelebs. es xalxi meub-

neba: amzadeben jars, wvrTnian

da ar ikiTxavT, vis agroveben?

_ probacionerebs. emuqrebian:

ar wamoxvalT, isev cixeSi Se-

gabrunebTo.

yvelasTvis cnobilia, sas-

roleTi rom gamarTes da iq

avarjiSeben xalxs. samoqalaqo

omisTvis emzadebian biWebi.

areuloba sWirdeba, etyoba,

miSas axla, am TmaSeRebil de-

generats... magram am bolo

dros veRar iRebavs, Tmebs re-

zo amaSukelis SiSiT.

miSa saakaSvilis saqme, ba-

tonebo, moTavebulia ukve,

gvamia es kaci da veraviTari

Tmis Rebva da vizaJisti veRar

uSvelis.

__ ssaassiikkvvddiilloo ddaarrttyymmaa iivvaa-

nniiSSvviillmmaa mmiiaayyeennaa,, TTqqvveennii aazz-

rriiTT??

_ diax, batono da aferum,

biZinas vakacobas, aqamde rom

saidumlod Seinaxa Tavisi gan-

zraxva da moulodnelad rom

Casca maxvili.

awi, veRaraferi ver uSve-

lis saakaSvils, isea dazaf-

ruli TviTon da misi gare-

mocva. karuselebiT cdiloben

viTom situaciis gamoswore-

bas. ager axla kvezereli ga-

uSva da gorozia moiyvana. kve-

zereli rac iyo da vinc iyo,

dainaxa mTelma saqarTvelom,

magram goroziam ra icis sof-

lis meurneobis? eqimi varo,

rom ambobs, magas klizma rom

daaWerino xelSi, t...s ver mi-

agnebs.

es ubedurebi raRacas epo-

tinebian, magram aRaraferi uS-

veliT. areuloba aqvT SigniT,

mTavrobaSi da es ambebi gamo-

aqvT iqedan. yvelaferi viciT,

rac iq xdeba.

__ TTqqvveenn ssaaiiddaann iicciiTT,, iiqq,,

mmTTaavvrroobbaaSSii rraa xxddeebbaa??

_ mirekaven da meubnebian:

ra vqnaT, ras gvirCev?! me ve-

ubnebi: dahkariT fexi da gai-

qeciT, sanam kidev droa-meTqi.

sastikad eSiniaT ivaniSvi-

lis da xalxis. male vixilavT

yvela maTgans soroebSi SemZv-

rals, an Cemodanze Semomj-

dars da gaqceuls, magram ro-

ca mova samarTliani xelisuf-

leba da erovnuli xalxi. ara-

vis SerCeba qveynis gaRleta

da gaZarcva.

__ iivvaanniiSSvviillii TTuu mmoovviiddaa

xxeelliissuufflleebbaaSSii,, TTqqvveennii aazzrriiTT,,

ssaammaarrTTaallii iizzeeiimmeebbss?? aaqqaa-iiqq,,

ssxxvvaaTTaa SSoorriiss,, aarr vviiccii,, rraa iinn-

ffoorrmmaacciiaazzee ddaayyrrddnnoobbiiTT,, mmaagg-

rraamm mmaaiinncc,, aammbboobbeenn,, TTuukkii xxeellss

ssaaaakkaaSSvviilliisskkeenn iiSSvveerrTT,, aarrcc

iivvaanniiSSvviillii ggaaxxllaavvTT qqaarrTTvvee-

lliioo..

_ mecineba pirdapir, vin,

kaco, es Worvileli kaci araa

qarTveli? kargiT, raa. araqar-

Tveli da kerZod, pirwavard-

nili somexi aris mixeil saa-

kaSvili, amas wyali ar gauva

da yvelam icis dRes es ambavi.

arCevnebSi saakaSvili yv-

elgan agebda, magram sabolo-

od marneuli, gardabani da es

mxare Sveloda, ratom? imi-

tom, rom, somxeTis da azerba-

ijanis mTavroba mouwodebda

TavianT xalxs, mieciT xma sa-

akaSvilis da SeRavaTebs da

privilegiebs miiRebTo. aqvT

kidevac araqarTvelebs qarTve-

lebTan SedarebiT privilegie-

bi im regionebSi, magram er-

Txel da samudamod, sarqisian-

ma da alievma daanebon Tavi sa-

akaSvilis mxardaWeras, poli-

tikuri gvamia ukve Tqveni mi-

xeili!

qveyana Tavze engreva am

aranormalurs da kidev piarze

fiqrobs? saqarTvelo _ som-

xeTis sazRvarze rom miwisZv-

ra moxda, gamovida es ubedu-

ri da kidev imaze daiwyo la-

paraki: somxeTis teritoriaze

gzebi araa gakeTebuli da imi-

tom moxda es tragediao.

kacia, axla, es? da xalxi

arian, vinc am gadareulis

gverdiT dganan? keTildReoba

warmavalia da amaSi me TviTo-

nac davrwmundi. 40 wlis gan-

mavlobaSi moskovSi araCveu-

lebrivad vcxovrobdi, ar mak-

lda araferi, axla TiTqmis

maTxovrad var qceuli, magram

kacoba da adamianoba ar dami-

kargavs.

bargiani mkvdari ginaxavT

sadme? saflavSi veravin vera-

fers Caitans da es SesaniSna-

vad icis ivaniSvilma, amitomac

aqvs gakeTebuli araerTi keTi-

li saqme, qvelmoqmedeba, Wor-

viladan da saCxeridan dawye-

buli mTeli TbilisiT damTav-

rebuli.

__ aaxxllaa aamm yyvveellaaffeerrss ppoo-

lliittiikkuurrii aaqqttiivvoobbaacc mmiieemmaattaa

ddaa mmooiiTTmmeennss aammddeennss xxeelliissuuff-

lleebbaa??

_ dRes rom viyo 30wlis axalgazrda,davdgebodi ivaniSvi-lis karebTan da sa-dac wavidoda, gver-didan ar movcilde-bodi, rom misTvis da-miznebuli tyvia memomxvedroda.

badri patarkaciSvilis

saflavs venacvale, iseTi ram

kidev rom moxdes, damTavrebu-

lia saqarTvelos ambavi.

badris periodis situacia

dRevandelisgan mkveTrad gans-

xvavdeboda, dRes xalxi Tvi-

Ton aris mzad yvelafris Se-

sacvlelad.

zogierTi ambobs, mitingebi

da gamosvlebi ar unda ivaniS-

vils da arCevnebamde jer ki-

dev Soriao. vin unda gamarTos

mitingi. isev im opoziciam?

romlebsac araerTxel da or-

jer erTi da igive aqvT naTq-

vami? arc me da arc Cveni mo-

saxleoba mitingze dRes aRar

dadgeba am gatialebuli opo-

ziciis gverdiT. yvelam erTna-

irad moiWra Tavi, qalbatonma

burjanaZemac, romelic sabo-

lood damTavrda 26 maiss Ta-

vis `krebianad~ da momxreebia-

nad.

kai, batono, gasagebia, am

bodiSi da, JRvintian saakaS-

vils TvalSi eCxireba ivaniS-

vili, magram leiboristebs ra

bzikma ukbinaT, rom gamoxtebi-

an da tlikineben. ver xedaven,

vin arian TviTon da vinaa bi-

Zina ivaniSvili?

__ bbaattoonnoo lleelliikkoo,, aassee yyvvee-

llaaffeerrii mmooggwwoonnTT iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss??

ssaaeerrTToodd uunnaakklloodd mmiiggaaCCnniiaaTT??

_ Cemo iranda, me Cemi qvey-

nis bed-iRbals dadarajebuli

kaci var da Cemi xalxi minda

gavafrTxilo _ vici, ivaniS-

vilma imedi gamoufxizla

xalxs, magram, xalxo, biZina

aris biZina da RmerTi CvenTvis

aris erTi. ar gavaRmerToT

ivaniSvili, kerpad nu warmo-

vidgenT, arc is davRupoT da

Tavsac gavufrTxildeT.

rac Seexeba imas, maqvs Tu

ara SeniSvna. maqvs. biZina

ivaniSvili aris zedmetad

inteligenti. am mTavrobas ki

muSti unda cxvirSi. amas

ver gaakeTebs ivaniSvili da

es unda gavakeToT Cven, xal-

xma.

biZina kulturiT aRsavse

kacia da es gamoCnda preskon-

ferenciaze. gafacicebiT vum-

zerdi, sad SeeSleboda, yve-

lam vnaxeT, rac moxda. es ra

vnaxe, ra ambavi iyo, kaco.

__ pprreesskkoonnffeerreenncciiaazzee??

_ diax, batono, diax. vin

iyvnen is xalxi, Jurnalistebi

erqvaT imaT? sad iyaviT, ra-

tom ar CandiT, magaliTad,

Tqven, anda jaba xubua, sxva

patiosani Jurnalistebi?

__ bbaattoonnoo lleelliikkoo,, TTqqvveennii

aazzrriiTT,, rraattoomm aaRRmmooCCnnddaa zzooggii-

eerrTTii JJuurrnnaalliissttii iimm ddRReess iivvaa-

nniiSSvviillssaa ddaa xxaallxxss SSoorriiss bbaa-

rriieerriiss,, ddaammaabbrrkkoolleebblliiss rrooll-

SSii?? rraattoomm CCaaddggnneenn SSuuaaSSii,,

TTqqvveennii aazzrriiTT??

_ imitom rom, mTavroba,

xelisufleba, parlamenti kar-

gad xvdeba safrTxis seriozu-

lobas, radgan maTi arsebobis

vada TandaTan iwureba. vinc im

dRes ivaniSvils Seupovrad

utevda, ase vTqvaT, yvela aris

gamZRari fuliT am xelisuf-

lebisgan, zogi farulad, zo-

gi _ aSkarad.

rom laparakobdnen, ivaniS-

vilma fuli ruseTSi iSova da

amitom ruseTis kaciao. fuli

taSkentSi rom eSova, biSkek-

Si, anda sxva planetaze, ras

ityodnen maSin?! ivaniSvili

ucxoplaneteliao?!

gaminawyendebian am simarT-

lisTvis is Jurnalistebi Tu

ara, sul ar mainteresebs _ I

arxisTvis, `rusTavi-2~-sTvis,

ìmedisTvis~ arasdros mimicia

interviu da arc vapireb, si-

marTle Tu gindaT.

__ JJuurrnnaalliissttmmaa uunnddaa ddaassvvaass

kkiiTTxxvvaa,, aammiiss ggaammoo ggaabbuuttvvaa aarr

SSeeiiZZlleebbaa,, bbaattoonnoo lleelliikkoo..

_ gasagebia, Tqven Jurna-

listi xarT da mxars uWerT

kolegebs, magram is simarTle,

rac unda hqondes Jurna-

lists, vamCnev, rom ara aqvs

yvelas.

ki, aucilebelia mZafri Se-

kiTxvebi, magram gaaCnia dros,

viTarebas, situacias. ivaniS-

vils jer araferi dauSavebia

iseTi, mtrad rom gadaekidos

vinme da jibrSi Caudges.

Jurnalistebi im dRes

yvavebis xrovas hgavd-

nen, romlebsac sadRac

sakbilo egulebodaT.

es igivea, cxens rom

ver miswvde da una-

girs dauwyo cema. sa-

lanZRavi da jibrSi

Casadgomi saqarTvelo-

Si cotaa?

rogorc gavige,

ivaniSvili apirebs

qarTul operas Zveli

dideba daubrunos. me

vici, rogor imarTeba

metropoliten-opera,

kovengardeni, la ska-

la, imaT veravin dau-

rekavs da ubrZanebs:

dRes es speqtakli ga-

uSvi, xval _ meoreo.

robiko sturua Teat-

ridan imitom daiTxo-

ves, rom gza gaeTavisuflebi-

naT im idioturi `qeTo da ko-

tesTvis~, romelsac me ukve

vuwode `qeTo da kutu~. vis

ra jandabad unda is uazroba,

repertuarSi yoveldRe miyo-

lebiT rom aris Casmuli.

davaneboT Tavi sisuleeebs.

gamovfxizldeT da Cvens saqmes

mivxedoT. daanebon am e.w. opo-

zicionerebma ivaniSvils Tavi,

nu aqvT kudi yavarze gadebu-

li, arafris maqnisi araa arc

erTi da nu iqaCebian. arasapar-

lamento da saparlamento

opozicia erTnairia TiTqmis

_`me TviTon~ Tu `Sen Tvi-

Ton~, partiaa axla es? saxe-

li Seucvlia axlaxan, magram

es ar uSvelis magaT. TorTla-

Ze, rom aris kidev, es kacobis

anomalia, esa...

Saliko, valiko dayvela gaCumdes da vi-sac rogor SeuZlia,ise dadges axla iva-niSvilis gverdiT, er-Ti saqmisTvis _ sa-qarTvelosTvis.

iranda kalandaZe

Saliko, valiko da yvela gaCumdesda visac rogor SeuZlia, ise

dadges ivaniSvilis gverdiT...


internetSi


21saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

nacionali vaiJurna-

listebis sawyalobe-

li RavRavisa da

wkmutunis fonze ra

adamianurad da bunebrivad ga-

isma ivaniSvilis Rimilnarevi,

laRi fraza tripolskis mi-

marT: ”e, biWo, Sen mainc gaCer-

di, ra!” es epizodi arasodes

damaviwydeba.

Temur iakobaSvilma

Tqva„samoqalaqo sa-

zogadoeba dRes uf-

ro sustia, vidre igi

revoluciamde iyoo“, mgoni,

nela-nela esec ipareba miSas

navidan! :)))))

ubralod, roca ambo-

ben, quCis saprotes-

to aqciebi ar gvin-

dao, Zaan ucnauria.

demokratiuli brZola pro-

testis mraval formas icnobs.

vinmes xom ar hgonia, rom par-

lamenti ufro mSvidobiania

vidre quCa? me ganaxebT ramde-

nime magaliTs, sadac kargad

Cans, rom rig SemTxvevaSi, par-

lamentSi ufro didi Setakebe-

bi xdeba, vidre quCaSi

Cemi azriT, quCaSi

gamosvlis logikuri

droa saparlamento

arCevnebi, Tu nacebi

ayalbeben da imarjveben, quCa

gardauvalia. oRond am quCas

keTriviT nu vuyurebT, quCac

demokratiis iseTive gamovli-

nebaa, rogoric parlamenti.

Tavs gvaxvevs nacistur-propa-

gandistuli manqana, rom quCa

cudia da borotebaa. cudi qu-

Ca ki ar aris, aramed sisxlis-

Rvra, romelic, SeiZleba, na-

cisturma reJimma moawyos!

me megona rom, sazo-

gadoeba Seqmnil si-

tuacias sworad ga-

moiyenebda, wina wle-

bSi daSvebul Secdomebs gaaa-

nalizebda da mis gamosworebas

Seecdeboda, nacvlad ki erTi

Tvea ukve imaze vdaobT, aqvs

nakli biZina ivaniSvils Tu

ara...

ciyvebiviT borbalSi vtri-

alebT da, rogorc vatyob, ki-

dev didxans vitrialebT...

Tu xedav, rom adami-

anSi yvelaferi ada-

mianuri pirutyvma

Cakla da mxolod pi-

rutyvuli instinqtebiT cxov-

robs. mxolod Wama-moneleba

ainteresebs da ar aRelvebs ra

fasad da visi. mxolod piru-

tyvuli vnebebiT cxovrobs, sa-

dac moundeba da visTanac mo-

undeba..dorbli da cingli er-

Tnairad gasdis... aseTi adamia-

nisadmi ra grZnoba unda gagiC-

ndeT qarTvelebo, qristiane-

bo..unda SegezizRoT Tu unda

SegecodoT? (miTumetes Tu

dafiqrdebiT ratom gaxda is

aseTi an rogor moxvda iq sa-

dac aris). Tqveni azri main-

tersebs: zizRi Tu sibralu-

li?

dRes momiyvnen erTi

saintereso ambavi qa-

rTu bankTan ganviTa-

rebul movlenebze.

vakis filialSi 2 dRis win

moxuci qalbatoni mdgara, vi-

Rac axalgazrda misula da

ukiTxavs _ qalbatono, ramiT

xom ar dagexmaroT, angariSis

gaxsna Tu gnebavT, dagexmarebi-

To, qalbatonma upasuxa: – sam-

wuxarod, fuli ar maqvs, Svi-

lo, Torem Zalian minda anga-

riSis gaxsnao, am axalzrdam

sakuTari jibidan dado fuli

da angariSi gauxsna ucnob

qalbatons `qarTu bankSi~. p.s.

es fanatizmi ar aris. es rwme-

naa, rwmena ukeTesi momavlisa

– rwmena qarTuli ocnebis re-

alobisa.

sayovelTao daumor-

Cileblobis gamocxa-

deba upriani iqneboda

momxdari ubedurebis

momdevno dReebSi an 26 maiss

momxdar darbevis Semdgom, mag-

ram, roca qveyanaSi gamoCnda

miSas sapirwone Zala ivaniSvi-

lis saxiT, romelmac Riad ga-

nacxada araviTari mitingebi

xelisuflebis Sesacvlelad,

aramed mxolod arCevnebio, ra-

tom apirebT areulobis Semo-

tanas maSin, roca swored are-

uloba awyobs miSas da mis

xrovas, iqneb dafiqrdeT, rom

Tqven avtomaturad xdebiT ia-

raRi miSas xelSi, xalxis da-

sasjelad da miSas wisqvilze

wylis damsxmelad.

SemogvierTdi

facebook-zze

`saerTo gazeTi~

xalxis azriT

Face

book

Face

book

Face

book

Face

book

Face

book

Face

book

Face

book

Face

book

Face

book

Face

book

Face

book

oriode dRis win veris baRSi

sazogadoebriv-politikuri gaerTi-

aneba `sruliad saqarTvelos xsnis

erovnuli frontis~ riggareSe sa-

gangebo yrilobaze gaxldiT miwve-

uli, sadac `frontis~ mier Ca-

tarebuli sociologiuri gamoki-

Txvis Sedegebi gvamcnes.

kiTxva: _ vis airCevdiT winam-

ZRolad, vis andobT qveynis marT-

vis arsebuli sistemis da xeli-

suflebis axliT Secvlas; Tu,

darCes arsebuli sistema am xeli-

suflebiT?

gamokiTxvis Sedegebiase gadanawilda: _ 1. sa-xelisuflebo (saakaSvi-li, bokeria, ugulava...) _7%; 2. saxelisufleboopozicia (TargamaZe, al-

asania...); 3. radikaluriopozicia (burjanaZe, ga-CeCilaZe, sanikiZe...) _0,4%; 4. naTelaSvili Sal-va _ 1%;; 5. opoziciuri in-teligencia (gafrindaS-vili, CxartiSvili, xaWa-puriZe) 6. ivaniSvil-iva-naSvili an misi partia-gaerTianeba _ 17%; 7. aka-ki jorjaZe _ 62%; 8. ara-vis _ 10%

martivi gamoTvlaa, ra procen-

tebic darCa, gadaanawileT maTze,

romelTac procentebi ar mivuwere,

_ mapatieT da, e.w sociologiuri

kvleviT miRebulma procentebma ise

gamaognes, im pawawunebs veRar `Ca-

vuRrmavdi.~

faqtia, baton akakis xelT upy-

ria ori kviris manZilze gamokiTx-

vaSi monawileTa mier Sevsebuli

blankebi, magram vin arian gamo-

kiTxulebi? _ 62%-is Semxedvares

iseTi azri gamiCnda, rom isini ba-

toni akakis gaerTianebis wevrebis

axlobel-naTesavebi unda iyvnen. Ce-

mi saqmianobidan gamomdinare yvela-

nair socialur jgufTan Tu cal-

keul pirTan miwevs urTierToba, _

ra vqna, Tuki udides umravleso-

bas, araTu xsenebuli sazogadoeb-

riv-politikuri organizacia, ba-

ton akakis pirovnebis Sesaxeb ar

smeniaT araferi...

rogorc ityvian, ès maTi prob-

lemaa~, magram 1 noembrs specialu-

rad gamocemuli (aseTi warwera

aqvs) `sityva~ #7 rom wavikiTxe,

pirskata meca, _ batoni akaki uc-

naurad akavSirebs erTmaneTTan sa-

kuTar misias da qarTveli eris ar-

Cevans: fuli Tu ufali?

`fizikurad Seiqmna piroba, Ti-

Tqos ìqiT~ pirispir dadgnen saa-

kaSvili da ivaniSvili, da TiTqos

maT Soris unda gakeTdes arCevani,

ase xdeba am Temis àJitireba~; mag-

ram, sinamdvileSi ers, qveyanas,

qarTvelobas asarCevi gvaqvs ufro

didi, ufro mniSvnelovani: fuli,

Tu ufali?~

gasagebia, rom fulSi ivaniS-

vil;i igulisxmeba, magram vin aris

Sefaruli uflis saxelqveS, vin

moiazreba uflis sityvis momta-

nad? _ patriarqi rom ar igulis-

xmeba, cxadia, samoqalaqo-politi-

kur sarbielzea saubari.

batoni akaki brZanebs, maisis

bolos gancdili marcxis Semdeg

da manamdec, gvpirdebodnen seqtem-

berSi gamoCenas, moalparakebebic

maSin ganvaaxloTo, magram saerTod

gaqra asparezidan `radikaluri

opozicia~, politikuri arena

mTlianad mosufTavdao. oqtombris-

Tvis, roca ukan movbrundi (uarvh-

yavi Cemi naTqvami `davamTavre~ da

sofelSi wavedi) da mzad vi-

yaviT eri arCevanisTvis, sa-

gangebo yrilobac davniSneT,

ivaniSvilic gamovida brZo-

lis asparezzeo, _ ras niS-

navs es ganacxadi, ivaniSvili

anu fuli daupirispirda

jorjaZes, anu ufals? _ sxva

araferi ikiTxeba amaSi...

`pirdapir, SiSvlad ga-

moCnda miliardeli, dRemde

xalxSi mxolod mecenatad

cnobili pirovneba sakmaod

Tamami, ambiciuri gancxadebe-

biT da daisva sakiTxi: an sa-

akaSvili da misi reJimi, an

erTi ivaniSvili, romelic am-

bobs: CemTan modiT, me gada-

garCenT! _ satyuara am dros,

ra Tqma unda, fulia!~

rogorc maxsovs, ufali fulSi

ki ar xedavs borotebas, aramed

fulis borotad gamoyenebaSi...

àr dgas sakiTxi, saakaSvili Tu

ivaniSvili, es orive erTi mxarea

sxvadasxva pirovnebiT warmodgenili.

vimeoreb: pirovnulad ivaniSvilTan

araviTari pretenzia ar maqvs, piri-

qiT, mivesalmebi mis nabijs, Tumca

ver getyviT, icis Tu ara man, raSi

gayo Tavi. Tu icis (me mgonia icis!),

maSin es sxva salaparako Temaa... mTa-

varia, eri, qarTveloba mivxvdeT, ra

TamaSia, droSi ra movlenasTan

gvaqvs saqme, politikur avanscenaze

gamosuli yvela `mxsneli~ ratom

iTxovs Cvens mxardaWeras~, _ kiTx-

vas svams batoni akaki.

nuTu vinmes, sadme gaugonia an

unaxavs erTi kacis gaerTianeba? ba-

toni akakic xom saqarTvelos mo-

saxleobis mxardaWeras iTxovs, Ta-

namoazreebs ikrebs, maS raSia saq-

me? garda amisa, Tu èsalmeba~

ivaniSvilis gamoCenas, iqve ratom-

Ra èmSvidobeba?~

`fulze da erT fulian adami-

anze nu avagebT Cvens momavals!~ _

lozungiviT styorcna gazeTis

mkiTxvels batonma akakim.

momiteveT, Tu azrobriv wyobas

erTgvarad areulad iRebT, gorma-

xebian ukidegano iluziis velze

davqrivar baton akakisTan erTad,

miTumetes, rom batoni akaki fl-

obs saidumlos, xsnis ra gzas da-

vadgeT, magram ar amxels...

baton akakis ar emeteba pativ-

cemuli ivaniSvili (b-iZina!) SarSi

gasaxvevad da gasawirad, miTumetes,

rom icis, igi ar aris mxsneli.

`mdidars~ gadasawyveti hqonia, da-

dges xalxTan Tu xalxi miixmos da

ultilatumis stilSi arCevanis

saSualeba misces, uTxras: memsaxu-

reT, qveyana CamabareT da safasurs

miiRebT.

`drois moTxovna aseTia: yovel

`savles~ SeuZlia iqces `pavled~;

èrovnuli frontis~ kari Riaa

yvelasTvis! ras izams batoni biZi-

na?... _ vfiqrob, safiqrali masala

miveciT, Tu waikiTxa man guldas-

miT Cveni gazeTi Tavisi `mrCevele-

bisgan~ ganmartoebiT.~

amgvari msjeloba dapatiJebas

unda waagavdes, ara? _ magram aqve

gvaxsenebs batoni akaki, rom biZina

ivaniSvili patarkaciSvili _ kvan-

triSvilis duetis bania, `trios~

wevri da kidev erTxel gvafrTxi-

lebs, ar gavcvaloT samSoblo

fulze. amas isev is mosdevs, rom

araferi iqneboda ufulo ivaniSvi-

li da, rom èrovnuli frontis~

kari Riaa yvelasTvis da yvelas

yvelafrad gadaqceva SeuZlia.

ra Tqma unda, yvelas SeuZlia

ganicados metamorfoza da sxvaTa-

Soris, èrovnuli frontis~ karSi

Seusvleladac...

arian adamianebi, Cveni sazoga-

doebis wevrebi, romlebic interes-

debian, ratom ambobs batoni jor-

jaZe, rom mis sagangebo yrilobas

`daamTxvia~ ivaniSvilma sakuTari

`politikuri vnebebis~ gamomzeure-

ba da ratom ar unda CaTvalon,

rom piriqiT, jorjaZem daamTxvia

Tavisi yriloba swored rom sa-

gangebod ivaniSvilis gamoCenas?

moqalaqeebs ainteresebT, 1 no-

embers, roca ivaniSvils preskon-

ferencia hqonda daniSnuli, jor-

jaZem icoda amis Sesaxeb Tu iva-

niSvilma icoda rom misi ganmaqiqe-

beli gazeTis specnomeri gamodio-

da 1-Si da specialurad daamTxvia?

moqalaqeebi kiTxvas svamen: _

jorjaZis gaerTianebas rom hkiTxo,

yvelafers daificeben, xelisufle-

basTan ra kavSiri gvaqvso, magram

sakiTxi ase dgas, _ kavSiri gaqvs

Tu ara, arsebuli xelisuflebis

saqmes rom akeTeb, xom faqtia? Se-

iZleba, ar mogwondes viRac, am

SemTxvevaSi ivaniSvili, magram misi

àrmowonebis~ gamo xelisuflebis

saqme unda akeTo?

`frontis~ wevrebi (maT kreba-

zec daswrebuli var), ise nTqavdnen

batoni akakis yvela sityvas, vgoneb

transSi iyvnen Cavardnilebi...

vfiqrob, asec ar SeiZleba Ta-

namoazreTa gameteba, codvani arian,

miTumetes, raionebidan Camovidnen,

gaisarjnen, daixarjnen...

maia WeliZe

fuli Tu ùfali~,saxelad akaki?!

akaki jorjaZe _ 62% :-)

22 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

àm reJimis winaaRmdeg

brZolas viwyebT ara civi

iaraRiT, aramed ufro Zlieri

iaraRiT _ gonebiT, guliT,

saqmiT~ _ mimarTa filarmoni-

aSi sagangebod Sekrebil

xalxs nana guluam..qalbatoni nana ruseTSi

moRvawe biznesmenis mindia gu-

luas daa. Tavad mindia saqar-

TveloSi ramdenime Tvis win

Camovida, Tumca aeroportSi

daakaves da samSobloSi dab-

runebis saSualeba ar misces.

ruseTidan daxmarebis uflebac

CamoarTves: 100 mln.-ian inves-

ticiaze, rasac gulua soflis

meurneobis aRorZinebaSi aban-

debda, saakaSvilis xelisuf-

lebam uari Tqva.

sxvaTa Soris, gulua ru-

seTSi dafrTianebuli zogier-

Ti biznesmenisgan imiTac gamo-

irCeva, rom samSobloSi Camos-

vlisa da dabrunebis survili

gauCnda.

Tavad fesvebs mowyvetili

Tanamemamuleebis nugeSi Seiqna

da moskovSi qarTul saTvis-

tomo ìberias~ Caudga saTave-

Si. uSurvelad patronobda,

materialurad exmareboda Ti-

Toeul qarTvels. axla saakaS-

vilis Cinovnikebisagan ufle-

baayrili, konkretuli mizezis

gareSe moqalaqeobaCamorTmeu-

li, mainc ar kargavs imeds.

saqarTveloSi ki mindia

guluas dawyebul saqmes misi

da-nana gulua Caudgeba saTave-

Si. ai, am axali saqmis irgv-

liv iyo ramdenime dRis win

filarmoniisTvisac ki uCveu-

lo xalxmravloba. qarTvelo-

ba `ganaxlebuli saqarTvelos~

imediT Seikriba.

foieSi Jurnalistebi gadi-

gamodiodnen, e.w. cnobad saxe-

ebs eZebdnen. sanam media `sak-

bilos~ dasdevda, Sexvedris

maspinZels Tadarigi daeWira

da iqve buterbrodebiT, namcx-

vriT, tkbileuliT, gaziani

sasmeliT eloda mozRvavebul

xalxs.

e.w. `prezentacia~, (rogorc

am bolo dros partiebis da-

fuZnebas vuwodebT,) `xorumiT~

gaixsna. qarTul cekvas himni

mohyva. himns simRera `qris-

teSobaze~, rac ansambl `Tu-

TarCelas~ gogonebma imdenad

mSobliurad, imdenad emociu-

rad damuxtulebma Seasrules,

isedac erTi ideiT _ `saqarT-

velos ganaxlebiT~ Sekrebi-

lebs qarTuli ZarRvi kidev

erTxel samSoblos gancdiT

SeutokdebodaT. piradad Cemze

darbazSi Cemi kuTxis xalxis-

megrelebis saubaric moqmedeb-

da emociurad (imedia, qsenofo-

biad ar CameTvleba) rogorc

gairkva, organizatorebs afxa-

zeTidan devnilebisTvisac moe-

yaraT Tavi. bolos da bolos,

am tkivilgamovlil xalxsac

miaqcies yuradReba-meTqi, gavi-

fiqre. Sexvedra dima jaianma

gaxsna. is iyo am krebis konfe-

ransie.

dima jaiani, mmssaaxxiioobbii

`̀ssaaeerrTToo ssaaxxaallxxoo wwiinnaaaaRRmmddeeggoo-

bbiiss mmooZZrraaoobbiiss~~ wwaarrmmoommaaddggeenneellii::

_ `Cqimi jima, cota gvi-

Wirs, magram mainc davbrunde-

biT~ _ jansuR Carkvianis leq-

siT gaamxneva stumrebi.

poetma erekle saRli-anma rusofobiis winaaRmdegacisaubra da SeniSna, ruseTSi

moRvawe qarTveli biznesmene-

bis araerovnulobaSi dadana-

Sauleba, iseTive sibece iqne-

boda, Tavis droze iliasTvi-

sac Tergdaleuloba gvesayve-

durao. `politikaSi avtori-

tets ar warmovadgen. Tumca

mainc vityvi, dRes, yvela re-

sursi unda SevkriboT saqarT-

velosTvis. mivesalmebi nana

guluas partiis dafuZnebas,

aseve mivesalmebi batoni biZi-

nas politikaSi mosvlas. ama-

sac vityvi, mtrebis survilis

miuxedavad, im daxmarebebis da

`grantebis~ miuxedavad, rasac

gvawvdian, yvelam icodes, sam-

Soblos ver Cagvadebineben. sa-

qarTvelos ar gavyidiT~

rreeJJiissoorrii levan anjafa-riZe:: __ `sakuTar Tavs da

Tqven, qarTvelebo, gilocavT

iseTi partiis Camoyalibebas,

romelic sabolood daZravs am

gayinul realobas. `ganaxlebu-

li saqarTvelo~ TiToeuli

qarTvelis xsna da imedi iqne-

ba. dReis amas iqeT, aRaraso-

des vnaxav Cems xalxs damfr-

Txalsa da SeSinebuls. saqar-

Tvelos namdvilad sWirdeba

ganaxleba~

reJisorma partiis simbo-

likazec isaubra da SeniSna:

alamze gamosaxul ferebs rac

Seexeba: TeTri-sispetakis, zne-

obis, lurji-Cveni Savi zRvis,

xolo oqrosferi- im terito-

riebis simbolod SeirCa, ra-

sac jerjerobiT ver vakont-

rolebT. Tumca maT dakargvas

verafriT SeveguebiTo. `TiTo-

euli Tqvengani uzomod miy-

varxarT~ _ saubris bolos ga-

mogvicxada wuTis win `gapo-

litikosebulma~ reJisorma.

simbolikis ganmartebis me-

re, Sexvedra isev klasikur,

oRond ukve moWarbebulad

zeoficialur stilSi gagr-

Zelda. Cans, maspinZlebs undo-

daT sakuTar gulwrfelobaSi

stumrebic daerwmunebinaT da

partiis programa, wesdeba, de-

legatTa sia, ase gansajeT,

`ganaxlebuli saqarTvelos~

wevrebis kenWisyra sul `pata-

kiT~ Cagvabares. roca jeri

gamgeobis wevrTa arCevaze mid-

ga, 5 piris SemadgenlobiT va-

kompleqtebTo, darbazis ukana

rigebidan TiTqos erTdrou-

lad ixuvles- xuTi ar varga,

xuTi cudi ricxviao. maSin

yrilobis Tavmjdomare valeri

gabeliam èqspromtad~ Seageba

winadadeba-kargi, problema ar

aris, Svidkaciani iyos gamgeo-

bao. hoda, axali wevrebis war-

dgenac aucilebeli Seiqna.

darbazma myisierad moifiqra

kandidatebi: irakli qardava

da giorgi vaniSvili. valeri

gabeliam vaniSvilis nacvlad,

ivaniSvili gamoacxada. -ivaniS-

vilic kargi iqneboda-enamosw-

rebulad ixumra viRacam dar-

bazidan.

bolos da bolos, partiis

Tavmjdomarec wargvidgines.

axalgazrda, energiuli qalba-

toni swrafad gamoCnda dar-

bazSi da emociurad damuxtu-

li sityva Seageba stumrebs.

nana gulua:: `̀ggaannaaxxlleebbuu-

llii ssaaqqaarrTTvveellooss~~ TTaavvmmjjddoommaa-

rree::

_ `var qarTveli deda, qar-

Tveli mecnieri. es regaliebic

ki Cemi samSoblos gadarCenis-

Tvis sakmarisi ar aRmoCnda.

kidev ufro metad miyvars Ce-

mi saqarTvelo da miviRe qvey-

nis gadarCenisaTvis sapasuxis-

mgeblo gadawyvetileba.

Rrmad mwams, Cven erTad me-

tis gakeTeba SegviZlia. zogi-

erTebs hgoniaT, rom saqarTve-

los ayvavebas mxolod turiz-

mis ganviTareba uSvelis. sof-

lis meurneobis aRorZinebaSia

saqarTvelos xsna, rwmenadab-

runebuli mSromeli kacia Cve-

ni imedi.

bednieri var, radgan so-

xumSi vcxovrobdi da vswav-

lobdi, Tumca meore mxriv,

ubedurebaa, roca iq Casvlis

ufleba dakarguli gvaqvs,

mjera- droebiT.

saqarTveloSi erTi ubedu-

reba ar gvakmares. samjer da

mravaljer devnilebi xdebian

Cveni Tanamoqalaqeebi. visac ar

geSiniaT, visac Cemebr da Cem-

ze metad uyvars samSoblo,

imaT gasagonad vacxadeb-

viwyebT brZolas qveynis gaTa-

visuflebisaTvis.

TiToeuli mimarTulebiT

gvaqvs konkretuli gegmebi,

konkretuli ideebi. dafinanse-

basTan dakavSirebiTac gansa-

kuTrebuli idea. amitom Zali-

an gTxovT moviTminoT.

Cemi Zma aris Cemi Zma, nana

guluas Zma da is CemTan erTad

aris, rogorc Zma. Tqven ro-

gor ggoniaT, me, SeiZleba myav-

des iseTi Zma, romelic ar

mexmareba?~_

guram fircxalava::mmssaaxxiioobbii `̀ssaaxxaallxxoo kkrreebbiiss~~

wwaarrmmoommaaddggeenneellii ddaa `̀wwiinnaaaaRRmmddee-

ggoobbiiss mmooZZrraaoobbiiss~~ wweevvrrii::

_ `kidev erTi axali par-

tia Seiqmna, Seiqmna qveynisT-

vis, rom bolos da bolos,

gveSvelos.

mivesalmebi yvela partias,

romelic cotaTi, Tu bevrad

win waswevs Cvens saqmes. nana

guluam Tqva, davibrunoT Cve-

ni samSoblo afxazeTio da si-

marTle giTxraT, cremlebi wa-

momcvivda. ratom unda viyoT

Cven usamSoblod? Tanac dau-

mata: samjer devnilebad gadag-

vaqcieso, esec gulze momxvda,

ase ar unda xdebodes saqarT-

veloSi. gaumarjos am parti-

as~

valeri gabelia: _

loialuri da liberaluri mi-

marTulebis partia viqnebiT.

ar aris gamoricxuli biZina

ivaniSvilTanac viTanamSrom-

loT, radgan mis partias didi

avtoriteti aqvs saqarTvelo-

Si. yvela WeSmarit opoziciur

ZalasTan viTanamSromlebT,

oRond fsevdoopoziciasTan _

vera. sxvaTa Soris, ivaniSvi-

lis partiis rigebidan bevri

Cven SemogvierTda. amboben-aq

ufro fasobs Tavisufali

sityva da moqmedebis Tavisuf-

lebac metiao.

__ rraa ffoorrmmiiTT iiqqnneebbaa mmiinnddiiaa

gguulluuaa aamm ppaarrttiiaaSSii CCaarrTTuullii??__

_ batoni mindia jerjero-

biT absoluturad ar aris

CarTuli am partiis saqmiano-

baSi, arc vici, ras izams mo-

mavalSi. partias uSualod

uxelmZRvanelebs misi da, nana

gulua. marTalia, igi politi-

kaSi pirvel nabijebs dgams,

Tumca sakmaod warmatebuli

mecnieria. qalbaton nanas didi

avtoriteti aqvs Tanamemamule-

ebSi. bevri saqvelmoqmedo saq-

me gaukeTebia._

__ ddRReevvaannddeell SSeekkrreebbaazzee

WWaarrbbaadd iiyyoo aaffxxaazzeeTTiiss TTeemmaa,,

ggaaCCnnddaa iimmeeddii-bboollooss ddaa bboollooss,,

ddeevvnniilleebbiiss pprroobblleemmeebbiiTTaacc ddaa-

iinntteerreessddeebbaa vviinnmmee??

_mindia gulua saqarTve-

los teritoriuli mTliano-

bis dacvisaTvis ibrZoda afxa-

zeTSi, mravaljer iyo daWri-

li, mainc gadarCa RvTis nebiT

da devnilis statusiT wavida

ruseTSi.

axla moqalaqeobis prob-

lema aqvs saqarTveloSi. Cven

da CvenTan erTad sruliad

saqarTvelos unda misi Camos-

vla, rom sakuTari SromiT da

ofliT naRvawi daabandos sam-

SobloSi. misi survilia, am

metad mZime yofierebaSi daex-

maros da gverdSi daudges

qarTvel ers .

jerjerobiT mindia gulua

am partias ar afinansebs.

moqalaqeobasac miaRwevs.

amisTvis ukve daiwyo brZola.

Tu mieca saSualeba, saqar-

TveloSi Camova da aucileb-

lad ibrZolebs qveynis ukeTe-

si momavlisTvis. ra Tqma unda,

pirvel rigSi devnilebis

problemebs moagvarebs, aseve

prioritetuli iqneba misTvis

soflis meurneobis aRorZine-

ba.

naTia nodia

da ZmisTvisao, orive ki `ganaxlebuli

saqarTvelosTvis~


internetSi

www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zze

23saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

`saerTo gazeTis~ mkiTxvelTa

SekiTxvebs pasuxobs gazeTis

iuridiuli konsultanti, advo-

kati

mTvarisa kevliSvili.

tel.: 2 79 63 91;8 790 60 64 69; 5 93 78 64 69

** ** **

_ ra aris saxelmwifo baJi?

alimentis Sesaxeb sarCeli

Segvaqvs sasamarTloSi. ra rao-

denobis baJi unda gadavixadoT?

_ saxelmwifo baJi es aris

saxelmwifos mier dadgenili

specialuri gadasaxadi, rome-

lic gadaixdevineba moqalaqeTa

mier sasamarTloSi Setanil

sarCelebsa da gancxadebebze da

romlis odenobac gansxvavdeba

imis mixdviT, Tu vin mimarTavs

sasamarTlos da ras iTxovs.

mosarCeleebi alimen-

tis gadaxdevinebis sarCe-

lebze saxelmwifo biuje-

tis sasargeblod sasamar-

Tlo xarjebis gadasaxa-

disagan Tavisufldebian,

samoqalaqo saproceso

kodeqsis 46-e muxlis I

nawilis à~ qvepunqtis

Sesabamisad.

aqedan gamomdinare,

Tqven alimentis gadaxde-

vinebis sarCelTan dakav-

SirebiT saxelmwifo baJs

ar gadaixdiT.

** ** **

_ ra SemTxvevebSi xdeba sa-

samarTlo xarjebis gadaxdisagan

gaTavisufleba?

_ saxelmwifo biujetis sa-

sargeblod sasamarTlo, xarje-

bis gadaxdisagan Tavisufldebi-

an:

a) mosarCeleebi _ alimentis

gadaxdevinebis sarCelebze.

b) mosarCeleebi-dasaxiCre-

biT an janmrTelobis sxva dazi-

anebiT, agreTve, marCenalis sik-

vdiliT miyenebuli zianis

anazRaurebis sarCelebze;

g) mosarCeleebi-danaSauliT

miyenebuli materialuri zara-

lis anazRaurebis sarCelebze.

d) mxareebi _ ukanono msjav-

rdebis, sisxlis samarTlis pa-

suxisgebaSi ukanonod micemis,

aRkveTis RonisZiebad dapatimre-

bis ukanonod gamoyenebis an ga-

masworebel samuSaoTa saxiT

adinistraciuli saxdelis uka-

nonod dadebis Sedegad moqala-

qisaTvis miyenebuli zaralis

anazRaurebasTan dakavSirebul

sarCelebze;

e) mosarCeleebi _ arasrul-

wlovanTa uflebebis darRvevas-

Tan dakavSirebul sarCelebze.

v) mxareebi, romlebic dadge-

nili wesiT registrirebuli

arian socialurad daucveli

ojaxebis monacemTa erTian baza-

Si da iReben saarsebo Semweobas,

rac dasturdeba Sesabamisi do-

kumentaciiT:

z) mxareebi _ winaswari (Su-

aleduri) gadawyvetilebis saa-

pelacio an sakasacio wesebiT

gasaCivrebisas.

kanoniT SeiZleba gaTvalis-

winebul iqnes saxelmwifo biu-

jetis sasargeblod sasamarTlo

xarjebis gadaxdisagan mxareTa

gaTavisuflebis sxva SemTxveve-

bic.

** ** **

_ ganqorwinebis saqmis gan-

xilvisas dRevandeli samoqala-

qo kanonmdebloba kvlav iTva-

liswinebs Tu ara meuRleTa Se-

sarigeblad vadis daniSvnas?

_ iTvaliswinebs.

ganqorwinebis saqmis ganxil-

visas sasamarTlo iRebs garkve-

ul zomebs meuRleTa Sesarigeb-

lad. mas aqvs ufleba gadados

saqmis ganxilva da meuRleebs

Sesarigeblad dauniSnos vada,

romelic ar unda aRematebodes

6 Tves. Tuki sasamarTlo daad-

gens, rom, miuxedavad am zomebi-

sa, meuRleTa Semdgomi Ta-

nacxovreba da ojaxis SenarCune-

ba SeuZlebelia, maSin igi iRebs

gadawyvetilebas ganqorwinebis

Sesaxeb.

** ** **

_ samoqalaqo saqmis ganxilvi-

sas visgan SeiZleba axna-gganmartebis

miReba?

_ ar SeiZleba axsna-ganmartebis

miReba.

a) iseTi pirebisagan, romlebsac

Tavisi fizikuri naklis an fsiqiku-

ri aSlilobis gamo ar SeuZlia

sworad aRiqvas faqtebi da misces

maT Sesaxeb swori Cveneba;

b) sasuliero pirisa an iseT

garemoebaTa Sesaxeb, romlebic maT

gaandves aRsarebis dros.

g) Tanamdebobis pirisagan iseT

garemoebebze, romelTa Sesaxeb sai-

dumloebis dacvac mis samsaxureb-

riv movaleobaSi Sedis, Tu igi ga-

Tavisuflebuli ar aris aseTi sai-

dumloebis dacvisagan.

** ** **

_ samoqalaqo kanonmdeblobiT,

aRiareba iTvleba Tu ara sakmaris

mtkicebulebad? ras gvetyviT, zo-

gadad, am mtkicebulebis Sesaxeb?

_ erTi mxaris mier iseTi gare-

moebis arsebobis an ararsebobis da-

dastureba (aRiareba), romelzedac

meore mxare amyarebs Tavis moTxov-

nebsa Tu Sesagebels, sasamarTlom

SeiZleba sakmaris mtkicebulebad

CaTvalos da safuZvlad daudos sa-

samarTlo gadawyvetilebas.

saqmisaTvis mniSvnelobis mqone

garemoebis arsebobis an ararsebobis

aRiareba mxares SeuZlia rogorc

zepiri, ise werilobiTi formiT,

saqmis winaswari sasamarTlo gan-

xilvisaTvis momzadebis an am saqmis

sasamarTlo sxdomaze ganxilvis

dros. Tu aRiareba warmodgenilia

werilobiTi formiT, igi daerTvis

saqmes. zepirad gakeTebuli aRiare-

ba Seitaneba sasamarTlo xdomis

oqmSi.

mxares SeuZlia, sasamarTlos

mier gadawyvetilebis gamotanamde

gaaqarwylos (uaryos) Tavisi aRia-

reba, Tu daamtkicebs, rom es aRia-

reba iyo Secdomis Sedegi da ganpi-

robebuli iyo iseTi garemoebiT,

romelic cnobili gaxda misTvis

aRiarebis Semdeg, anda masze fsiqi-

kuri Tu fizikuri zemoqmedebiT,

romelic gamoricxavda mis Tavisu-

fal nebas.

aRiarebis uaryofa sasamarTlom

unda daasabuTos Tavis gadawyveti-

lebaSi.

** ** **

_ dedam anderZiT damitova qo-

neba. gardacvlili myavs da, romel-

sac darCa ori qaliSvili,

SeuZliaT Tu ara Cems disS-

vilebs Semomedavon qonebis

miRebisas.

_ SeuZliaT.

_ Tqven da Tqveni da iT-

vlebodiT dedaTqvenis I ri-

giT memkvidreebad. Tqveni da

gardacvlilia. misi wamomad-

genlebi arian disSvilebi. vi-

naidan, saxeze gvaqvs anderZiT

memkvidreoba da ara kanonismi-

eri, Tqvens disSvilebs SeuZ-

liaT moiTxovon dedamisis,

rogorc I rigis memkvidris

savaldebulo wili. Tqveni da

rom cocxali yofiliyo, is

miiRebda qonebis naxevris naxevars.

am naxevris naxevarze (savaldebulo

wili) pretenzia rom gauCndeT

Tqvens disSvilebs, nu gagikvirde-

baT. kanoni maT amis uflebas aZ-

levs.

** ** **

_ rogor xdeba pensiis daniSv-

na?

_ socialuri dazvevis erTian

saxelmwifo fondSi, Tqveni gancxa-

debis safuZvelze, kompensaciis an

saxelmwifo akademiuri stipendiis

daniSvna moxdeba gancxadebis ward-

genis dRidan.

marCenalis gardacvalebis gamo,

kompensacia iniSneba marCenalis gar-

dacvalebis dRidan, Tu gancxadeba

kompetentur organoSi wardgenili

iqneba gardacvalebidan 3 Tvis vada-

Si. am vadis gasvlis SemTxvevaSi,

kompensacia iniSneba gancxadebis

wardgenis dRidan.

** ** **

_ mamaCemi brmaa. apirebs ander-

Zis daweras rogori moxdeba es?

SeiZleba Tu ara anderZi Sinauru-

li formiT daiweros?

_ Tu moanderZe brmaa (an we-

ra-kiTxvis ucodinari), anderZi

unda Sedges notariusTan sami

mowmis TandaswrebiT, ris Sesa-

xeb unda gakeTdes saTanado Ca-

naweri, romelic waekiTxeba mo-

anderZes. am dros ar SeiZleba

anderZis Camweri da misi wam-

kiTxveli erTi da igive piri

iyosCanawerSi aucileblad unda

iqnas miTiTebuli, Tu vin gaake-

Ta Canaweri da vin waukiTxa mo-

anderZes. Canawers xeli unda

moaweron mowmeebma da daadas-

turos notariusma.

aqedan gamomdinare, brma pirov-

nebis (an wera-kiTxis ucodinari)

mier anderZis Sinauruli formiT

dawera kategoriulad gamoiricxeba.

`saerTo gazeTis~ iuridiuli konsultacia

am bolo periodSi is-

mis braldeba, rom iva-

niSvilma saqarTvelos

omis dawyeba daabrala

preskonferenciaze. sainteresoa

isic, rom arcerTi mxare ar da-

akvirda im terminologias, rac

ivaniSvilma gamoiyena. sxva po-

litikosebisgan gansxvavebiT,

ivaniSvilma Tqva “2008 wlis

saomari moqmedebebi” es ki ukve

gamoricxavs omis dawyebas, rad-

gan saomari moqmedebebi adre

dawyebuli omis gagrZelebaa.

nodiac ki prognoze-

biT gamodis momavali

xelisuflebis perso-

nalur Semadgenlobaze

da pirveli SemTxvevaa, mgoni,

rom veTanxmebi: prezidenti –

alasania, parlamentis Tavmjdo-

mare – usufaSvili, premieri

ivaniSvili. zogma eqspertma

mTavrobis personalur Semad-

genlobaze daiwyo saubari. Za-

lianac kargi. nodias Sesaval-

ma gamacina:”albaToba, rom isini

xelisuflebaSi movlen, ar aris

maRali, magram varaudebi SeiZ-

leba gamovTqvaT” :)

miSam mixalkovis qa-

liSvilis qorwilSi

misvliT da rusuli

romansebis tkbobiT ra

,,satopke” augdo Salvas dar-

dubalasTvis! ise, kalmaxeliZe

rom mivaTxovoT Jirinovskis?

xom xdeboda xolme aseTi po-

litikuri qorwinebebi? daTboba

da Tvalebidan gadmoRvrili

`Cuvstvebi” mere naxeT:)).

miSas preskonferencia

bunebaSi ar arsebobs.

SevardnaZis tradiciu-

li yovelkvireuli

preskonferenciebis Semdeg sa-

qarTvelos prezidents, realu-

rad, preskonferencia ar hqonia.

miSas uyvars monologebi, roca

kiTxvas aravin usvams da rasac

unda, imas laparakobs - TavisT-

vis mierekeba. an uaresi - uyvars

davarcxnili, „Cawyobili“ bri-

fingebi, sadac win mxolod misi

rCeuli sami televiziis daqoqi-

li saTamaSo uzis, Tvalebs ufa-

xulebs da winaswar Camoweril,

aTasjer SeTanxmebul kiTxvebs

usvams. miSa aseTia.

xolo biZina - kaci, rome-

lic aqamde ar Canda da misi

personis Sesaxeb TiTqmis arafe-

ri vicodiT, gacilebiT komuni-

kabeluri da Ria aRmoCnda, vid-

re warmogvedgina. koiotebma

amiT borotad isargebles...

saocreba iciT, ra-

Sia?am aramzadebma im-

dens miaRwies, miliar-

ders xalxi iqiT ux-

dis fuls!:)))eseTi ram kacob-

riobis istorias ar axsovs,

swored amas hqvia borotebis

siyvaruliT damarcxeba!!!

erTaderTi qveyana va-

rT msoflioSi, sadac

cirki araa ukve 3 we-

lia. arada, ramdeni

masxara gamoCnda... am xalxs da-

saqmeba ar unda? amxela audi-

toria, msoflios arc erT

cirks ar Rirsebia arasodes !!!

20 welia msoflio Cvens cirks

uyurebs, Tavisi uTvalavi klo-

unebiT !!! garedan vinc uyurebs,

ecinebaT, Signidan vinc vuyu-

rebT _ ara.

nacebis kvnesa vnaxe da

magaTi Tvalis dafso-

ba, mTel saqarTvelos

ahkides politikuri

yabzoba.

am saakaSvilis naxmar

lamazmanebs raRa eSve-

lebaT, neta, upatro-

nod rom rCebian. miSa

rom qalTan gulaobs da mere

Tavis naTrev qals xelisufle-

baSi myof Cinovniks gaatans co-

lad, Turme es vaJkacoba yofi-

la da ruseTTan dialogi _ ja-

SuSoba.

ra vqna, vaRiareb:saakaSvils da missatanur garemoc-vas me verasodes

Seviyvareb da aqedan ga-momdinare, verc veraso-des vapatieb saqarTve-los gapartaxebas daqarTveli xalxis gabaxe-bas!!! rom vapatio, aba, miTxa-

riT, ra formiT?!!

me ar mainteresebs

lirika da niuanse-

bi!!!!!!! xelisuflebam

unda daiklos fufu-

neba da mixedos xalxs!!! egre

gagrZeleba SeuZlebelia!!!!

xalxs ara aqvs elementaruli

saSualeba kvebis, wamlis, cxov-

rebis!!!!!da CemTvis gaugebaria,

SSeemmooggvviieerrTTddii

facebook-zzee

`̀ssaaeerrTToo ggaazzeeTTii~~

xalxis azriT

24 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.

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C M Y K

Documents

z , 2011 weli zgamodis oTxSabaTobiT z ivaniSvili: `ar ...dspace.nplg.gov.ge/bitstream/1234/118650/1/Saerto_Gazeti_2011_N44.pdf · C M Y K #44 (173)z9-115.XI, 2011 weli zgamodis oTxSabaTobiT