The New England Hydric Soils The New England Hydric Soils Technical Committee – Technical Committee – 16 years 16 years

in 10 minutes!in 10 minutes!

NEW ENGLAND INDICATORSNEW ENGLAND INDICATORS

87 Manual used soil drainage classes in 87 Manual used soil drainage classes in the criteria for a hydric soil.the criteria for a hydric soil.

Drainage classes were mainly an Drainage classes were mainly an agricultural term without soil agricultural term without soil morphology associated.morphology associated.

In the 1980’s the NE office of the In the 1980’s the NE office of the ACOE with assistance of the NRCS ACOE with assistance of the NRCS (Pete Fletcher) attempted to establish (Pete Fletcher) attempted to establish drainage class criteria for all of NE drainage class criteria for all of NE Document available at: Document available at: http://http://nesoil.com/properties/drainageclasses.htm.nesoil.com/properties/drainageclasses.htm.

Team of COE, EPA, NRCS traveled throughout NE Team of COE, EPA, NRCS traveled throughout NE to examine soils and data.to examine soils and data.

Although some success was reached, the final Although some success was reached, the final drainage class criteria were still confusing.drainage class criteria were still confusing.

In 1992 the drainage class contingent merged into the In 1992 the drainage class contingent merged into the NEHSTC with the goal of establishing hydric soil NEHSTC with the goal of establishing hydric soil indicators (like those being developed at the time at indicators (like those being developed at the time at the federal level) to identify hydric soils in NE. the federal level) to identify hydric soils in NE.

1991-93 UMASS Adopt-a-Well study.1991-93 UMASS Adopt-a-Well study.

NEW ENGLAND INDICATORSNEW ENGLAND INDICATORS

New England Hydric Soil New England Hydric Soil Technical Committee Technical Committee

Federal Agencies (NRCS, Federal Agencies (NRCS, ACOE, EPA, USFWS)ACOE, EPA, USFWS)

State Agencies (NH DES, State Agencies (NH DES, CTDEP, Maine Dept of Ag)CTDEP, Maine Dept of Ag)

University Personnel University Personnel (UCONN, URI, UMASS, (UCONN, URI, UMASS, UNH)UNH)

Private Sector (Consultants)Private Sector (Consultants) 15 member steering team, 4 15 member steering team, 4

person chair – meet 2-4 person chair – meet 2-4 times/year in NH.times/year in NH.

Field Indicators for Identifying Field Indicators for Identifying Hydric Soils in New EnglandHydric Soils in New England

Only region-wide publication not based on Only region-wide publication not based on National indicatorsNational indicators..

Recognized by the ACOE to conform to Recognized by the ACOE to conform to results obtained using the 1987 Manual. results obtained using the 1987 Manual.

ACOE encourages its usage throughout NE.ACOE encourages its usage throughout NE. Published through the New England Interstate Published through the New England Interstate

Water Pollution Control Commission.Water Pollution Control Commission.

Genesis of an IndicatorGenesis of an Indicator•Soils formed in dark (lithochromic) mineralogy.

•Recognized as “Problem soils” In 87 manual.

•Dark soil subcommittee formed.

•Hydric Tour: RI 2000 – thesis study, VT/NH 2003 Cabot site with data.

•Meetings and let the Emails fly!

Dark Till Emails from Last to first:Dark Till Emails from Last to first: 9/249/24 Greetings,Greetings, Mike pointed out that with version V redox features might not start until 19 inches.  So I added qualifier on the surface layer so that redox features would start within 12 inches of the soil surface be it Mike pointed out that with version V redox features might not start until 19 inches.  So I added qualifier on the surface layer so that redox features would start within 12 inches of the soil surface be it

organic or mineral.  Is 12 inches the right depth? If not why not? The National Indicator redox dark surface that we discussed requires redox features to begin by 8 inches below the mineral surface.  organic or mineral.  Is 12 inches the right depth? If not why not? The National Indicator redox dark surface that we discussed requires redox features to begin by 8 inches below the mineral surface.  This is the right idea but to restrictive.This is the right idea but to restrictive.

After noon today return comments to Thom Villars.After noon today return comments to Thom Villars. SteveSteve Version VI Version VI VIII. VIII. DARK MINERAL SOILS.DARK MINERAL SOILS. Soils having a surface layer up to 12 inches thick that consists of a layer of organic soil materials and/or an A or Ap horizon with matrix value of 3 or less and chroma Soils having a surface layer up to 12 inches thick that consists of a layer of organic soil materials and/or an A or Ap horizon with matrix value of 3 or less and chroma

of 2 or less, that is directly underlain by mineral soil material that has a matrix value of less than 4 and chroma of 2 or less, with 2 percent or more redox concentrations, that extends either: a. to a depth of 2 or less, that is directly underlain by mineral soil material that has a matrix value of less than 4 and chroma of 2 or less, with 2 percent or more redox concentrations, that extends either: a. to a depth of 20 inches below the top of the material soil material, or b. to a depleted or gleyed matrix, whichever is shallower.of 20 inches below the top of the material soil material, or b. to a depleted or gleyed matrix, whichever is shallower.

9/249/24 All,All, Jim Gove brings up the point of "false positives." In concept this indicator will work well for many soils, I believe 2 chroma with redox is a hydric condition in all soils except compacted A horizons. Jim Gove brings up the point of "false positives." In concept this indicator will work well for many soils, I believe 2 chroma with redox is a hydric condition in all soils except compacted A horizons.

However, as presently written I interpret this indicator to allow something as light as 3/2 to 19 inches and then 2 chroma with redox. This is, I believe, a case of a false positive because 18 - 19", However, as presently written I interpret this indicator to allow something as light as 3/2 to 19 inches and then 2 chroma with redox. This is, I believe, a case of a false positive because 18 - 19", whatever, is way too deep for hydric soils. In the field we discussed mimicing National Redox Dark Surface. It seeme we have drifted a long way off course from that. We should be requiring the 2 whatever, is way too deep for hydric soils. In the field we discussed mimicing National Redox Dark Surface. It seeme we have drifted a long way off course from that. We should be requiring the 2 chroma with mottles to start within 12" of the surface (or even higher). I realize it says immediately below the A etc. Once again, horizon interpretations could cause inconsistent application.chroma with mottles to start within 12" of the surface (or even higher). I realize it says immediately below the A etc. Once again, horizon interpretations could cause inconsistent application.

MikeMike 9/239/23 Hi All, I guess that is my concern that we could be creating an indicator that has potential for false positives.  Do we know for certain that it works in areas that don't have dark minerals?Hi All, I guess that is my concern that we could be creating an indicator that has potential for false positives.  Do we know for certain that it works in areas that don't have dark minerals? Jim GoveJim Gove 9/239/23 "...since I think we need to inform the user not to view this indicator as being used everywhere in NE.""...since I think we need to inform the user not to view this indicator as being used everywhere in NE." Hold on a minute, Jim. This indicator is intended to fit right into the Keys. I see this indicator as applying everywhere someone runs into this set of soil properties. I don't understand the reasoning Hold on a minute, Jim. This indicator is intended to fit right into the Keys. I see this indicator as applying everywhere someone runs into this set of soil properties. I don't understand the reasoning

behind trying to limit where this indicator is applied. If the relevant soil properties are encountered (anywhere), a consultant should feel free to apply this indicator, without having to decide if he/she is behind trying to limit where this indicator is applied. If the relevant soil properties are encountered (anywhere), a consultant should feel free to apply this indicator, without having to decide if he/she is in the right "area" or in the right parent materials.in the right "area" or in the right parent materials.

That's how I see it, anyway.That's how I see it, anyway. ThomThom 9/239/23 Greetings,Greetings, Why does this indicator need to be restricted exclusively to dark mineral areas?  If it picks up soils that fall through the cracks in non dark mineral areas what is the harm in that?  If it is not restriced to Why does this indicator need to be restricted exclusively to dark mineral areas?  If it picks up soils that fall through the cracks in non dark mineral areas what is the harm in that?  If it is not restriced to

dark mineral areas will false positives be created?dark mineral areas will false positives be created? If you restrict it to dark mineral areas you must define what that means or leave up to the interpretation of the user.  If you leave it up to the user than it will probably be used in areas that some of us If you restrict it to dark mineral areas you must define what that means or leave up to the interpretation of the user.  If you leave it up to the user than it will probably be used in areas that some of us

would not define as a "dark mineral area".would not define as a "dark mineral area". Doesn't the color restrictions that we put in the indicator already define what we mean by dark minerals.  Trying to refine that further in a user note will confuse more than in helps.  How many users Doesn't the color restrictions that we put in the indicator already define what we mean by dark minerals.  Trying to refine that further in a user note will confuse more than in helps.  How many users

will know how to identify phylitte anyway?will know how to identify phylitte anyway?    Lets name the indicator Dark Mineral Soils and drop the user note.Lets name the indicator Dark Mineral Soils and drop the user note.   Version V works for Vermont without the user note and with a few english corrections suggested by Thom and Jeff.Version V works for Vermont without the user note and with a few english corrections suggested by Thom and Jeff. After tomorrow please direct further comments to Thom Villars as I will be on leave until October 6th.After tomorrow please direct further comments to Thom Villars as I will be on leave until October 6th. SteveSteve 9/239/23 I returned from my days off to a long list of messages on the new indicator.  I made a list of all the comments/changes/etc. and added a couple of my own and it seems to me like the current version I returned from my days off to a long list of messages on the new indicator.  I made a list of all the comments/changes/etc. and added a couple of my own and it seems to me like the current version

looks like the following.  looks like the following.  I added a name, added "s" after layer put "and/" after O, A, since I assume there could be multiple horizons of those types deleted the comma after "mineral soil material" put a few things in bold italics I added a name, added "s" after layer put "and/" after O, A, since I assume there could be multiple horizons of those types deleted the comma after "mineral soil material" put a few things in bold italics

as they are in the Glossary (did I miss any?) deleted the "s"  after "extend" added commas in User Note after "such as" and "limited to" (-: Ruth as they are in the Glossary (did I miss any?) deleted the "s"  after "extend" added commas in User Note after "such as" and "limited to" (-: Ruth VIII. VIII.  DARK MINERAL SOILS.  DARK MINERAL SOILS.  Mineral soils that have a dark surface layer(s) ( Mineral soils that have a dark surface layer(s) (O, AO, A, and/or, and/or Ap horizons Ap horizons), with matrix value of 3 or less and matrix chroma of 2 or less, that is directly underlain by ), with matrix value of 3 or less and matrix chroma of 2 or less, that is directly underlain by

layers oflayers of mineral soil material mineral soil material that have a matrix chroma of 2 or less and 2% or more that have a matrix chroma of 2 or less and 2% or more redox concentrations redox concentrations, that extend to depth of at least 20 inches below the top of the mineral soil layers., that extend to depth of at least 20 inches below the top of the mineral soil layers. User Note: These soils usually form inUser Note: These soils usually form in parent materials parent materials derived from dark colored rocks such as, but not limited to, phylitte, limestone, carboniferous sedimentary rocks, or lacustrine sediments that are derived from dark colored rocks such as, but not limited to, phylitte, limestone, carboniferous sedimentary rocks, or lacustrine sediments that are

high in clay. high in clay. 9/239/23

Hi All, In terms of the other indicators with names such as Depleted Or Gleyed Matrix, Spodosols, Sandy Soils, etc.; will this indicator be distinguished by a unique name?  Like --- Dark Hi All, In terms of the other indicators with names such as Depleted Or Gleyed Matrix, Spodosols, Sandy Soils, etc.; will this indicator be distinguished by a unique name?  Like --- Dark Mineral Soils, since I think we need to inform the user not to view this indicator as being used everywhere in NE.Mineral Soils, since I think we need to inform the user not to view this indicator as being used everywhere in NE.

Jim GoveJim Gove 9/239/23 Greetings, It appears that I need to back off of the surface layer and go back to horizons in order alow for O layers.  So here is version V.  We need to alow for the following Greetings, It appears that I need to back off of the surface layer and go back to horizons in order alow for O layers.  So here is version V.  We need to alow for the following

combinations:  A, Ap, O, O over A, and O over B in the upper part. There may be a few I missed. What Thom and I have put together works for what we saw last week and for dark combinations:  A, Ap, O, O over A, and O over B in the upper part. There may be a few I missed. What Thom and I have put together works for what we saw last week and for dark mineral areas in Vermont.  Its not tied directly to how the horizons are labled.  For example on the last site we looked at in NH you can call that layer at 16 inches and A or B and it still mineral areas in Vermont.  Its not tied directly to how the horizons are labled.  For example on the last site we looked at in NH you can call that layer at 16 inches and A or B and it still works.  For you AB guys and gals, if the AB is under an A or Ap and has the color and redox features it still works.  If there are redox features in the A or Ap it still works because they works.  For you AB guys and gals, if the AB is under an A or Ap and has the color and redox features it still works.  If there are redox features in the A or Ap it still works because they are not excluded. On the user note, I added it because some people wanted dark minerals in.  I don't think it is neccessary to work in Vermont.  In addition, we may find that this works are not excluded. On the user note, I added it because some people wanted dark minerals in.  I don't think it is neccessary to work in Vermont.  In addition, we may find that this works well in other areas besides the "dark mineral areas".  Also in Vermont limestone is dark colored, in other areas it is not, so that is open to interpretation. Bottom line is version V works in well in other areas besides the "dark mineral areas".  Also in Vermont limestone is dark colored, in other areas it is not, so that is open to interpretation. Bottom line is version V works in Vermont with out the dark mineral user note.  Please let me know if you have strong feelings either way.Vermont with out the dark mineral user note.  Please let me know if you have strong feelings either way.

  Steve      Steve      Version VVersion V VIII Soils having a layer of organic soil materials and/or an A or Ap horizon with matrix value of 3 or less and chroma of 2 or less that is directly underlain by mineral soil material that VIII Soils having a layer of organic soil materials and/or an A or Ap horizon with matrix value of 3 or less and chroma of 2 or less that is directly underlain by mineral soil material that

has a matrix value of less than 4 and chroma of 2 or less with 2 percent or more redox concentrations that extends either :has a matrix value of less than 4 and chroma of 2 or less with 2 percent or more redox concentrations that extends either : a. to a depth of 20 inches below the top of the material soil material, or b. to a depleted or gleyed matrix, whichever is shallower. User Note: These soils usually form in parent materials a. to a depth of 20 inches below the top of the material soil material, or b. to a depleted or gleyed matrix, whichever is shallower. User Note: These soils usually form in parent materials

derived from dark colored rocks such as but not limited to phylitte, limestone, carboniferous sedimentary rocks, or lacustrine sediments that are high in clay. derived from dark colored rocks such as but not limited to phylitte, limestone, carboniferous sedimentary rocks, or lacustrine sediments that are high in clay. 9/239/23 Steve/others:Steve/others: 1.   I've been watching this "new indicator" develop.  It appears to have a positive application to the "problem areas" it addresses.  I think it should come in order after indicator VII as you 1.   I've been watching this "new indicator" develop.  It appears to have a positive application to the "problem areas" it addresses.  I think it should come in order after indicator VII as you

suggest.  I still think there is sufficient overlap between VII (DEPLETED MATRIX WITH THICK A) and VIII ("DARK PARENT  MATERIAL").  The user note clarifies this but I think suggest.  I still think there is sufficient overlap between VII (DEPLETED MATRIX WITH THICK A) and VIII ("DARK PARENT  MATERIAL").  The user note clarifies this but I think the the note should be more conspicuousnote should be more conspicuous that in other places of the "keys", as is critical to proper use of this indicator.  In addition, selecting a that in other places of the "keys", as is critical to proper use of this indicator.  In addition, selecting a name that is very distinctive name that is very distinctive will further guide will further guide the uninitiated to proper use.the uninitiated to proper use.

2.  I think Jim T.'s note on A horizons could be used to 2.  I think Jim T.'s note on A horizons could be used to revise our current definition of "A Horizon"revise our current definition of "A Horizon" and help with application of the "new" indicator VIII when applied to alluvial soils. and help with application of the "new" indicator VIII when applied to alluvial soils. 3.  I see no reason why we can't use "layers" with the "new" indicator, as it may apply to many different kinds of horizons, while leaving "horizons" in other places.3.  I see no reason why we can't use "layers" with the "new" indicator, as it may apply to many different kinds of horizons, while leaving "horizons" in other places. 4.  I am NOT in favor of eliminating "dark" and "very dark" as adjectives for A horizons, as they are used to separate a number of indicators such as IX. SANDY SOILS (as revised).4.  I am NOT in favor of eliminating "dark" and "very dark" as adjectives for A horizons, as they are used to separate a number of indicators such as IX. SANDY SOILS (as revised). 5.  As far as Mike W.'s comments on 3/2, 3/1, 4/1, 5/1, 6/1, I offer the following:5.  As far as Mike W.'s comments on 3/2, 3/1, 4/1, 5/1, 6/1, I offer the following: a.  I find 3/2 and (and sometimes its sister 3/1) to be about the most common a.  I find 3/2 and (and sometimes its sister 3/1) to be about the most common surface layersurface layer colors on soils, everywhere I have described them in NE and I can't ever remember describing colors on soils, everywhere I have described them in NE and I can't ever remember describing

this color in reference to a wet subhorizon.this color in reference to a wet subhorizon. From my experience, this is unusual, though not impossible.From my experience, this is unusual, though not impossible. b.  I think the 4/1, 5/1 and 6/1 situations would mostly be caught in indicators VI.and VII. (current draft).b.  I think the 4/1, 5/1 and 6/1 situations would mostly be caught in indicators VI.and VII. (current draft). c.  If there is a loophole, then c.  If there is a loophole, then perhaps perhaps we could add to VI and VII. the following:  "with a depleted or gleyed matrix, we could add to VI and VII. the following:  "with a depleted or gleyed matrix, with or without other redoximorphic                 featureswith or without other redoximorphic                 features".  Although ".  Although

this is a bit wordy.this is a bit wordy. Tom PeragalloTom Peragallo 9/229/22 I like the reference to dark minerals, as a way to separate this from other indicators.  I like the reference to dark minerals, as a way to separate this from other indicators.  Jim goveJim gove 9/229/22 Greetings,Greetings, Version IV with the possibility of a depleted matrix so that colors of 4/1,5/1, 6/1 with less than 2% redox concentrations in a layer still make it.Version IV with the possibility of a depleted matrix so that colors of 4/1,5/1, 6/1 with less than 2% redox concentrations in a layer still make it. Thanks Mike.Thanks Mike. Last version for today. I'm in till Wednesday so will continue to compile suggestions.Last version for today. I'm in till Wednesday so will continue to compile suggestions. Do you think we need to define a dark surface layer or does the glossary cover it?Do you think we need to define a dark surface layer or does the glossary cover it? SteveSteve Version IVVersion IV VIII Mineral soils that have a dark surface layer (O, A, or Ap horizons), with matrix value of 3 or less and matrix chroma of 2 or less, that is directly underlain by layers of mineral soil VIII Mineral soils that have a dark surface layer (O, A, or Ap horizons), with matrix value of 3 or less and matrix chroma of 2 or less, that is directly underlain by layers of mineral soil

material, that have a matrix chroma of 2 or less and 2% or more redox concentrations and or a depleted matrix, that extends to depth of at least 20 inches below the top of the mineral soil material, that have a matrix chroma of 2 or less and 2% or more redox concentrations and or a depleted matrix, that extends to depth of at least 20 inches below the top of the mineral soil layers.layers.

User Note: These soils usually form in parent materials derived from dark colored rocks such as but not limited to phylitte, limestone, carboniferous sedimentary rocks, or lacustrine User Note: These soils usually form in parent materials derived from dark colored rocks such as but not limited to phylitte, limestone, carboniferous sedimentary rocks, or lacustrine sediments that are high in clay. sediments that are high in clay.

9/229/22

Greetings,Greetings, Version III incorporates some more suggestions and edits.  I dropped very dark and defined matrix for dark surface layer.  Its the only place we use dark surface layer in place of horizons.  I added Version III incorporates some more suggestions and edits.  I dropped very dark and defined matrix for dark surface layer.  Its the only place we use dark surface layer in place of horizons.  I added

sedimentary rocks.  I didn't add Mike's suggestion on depleted matrix becuase I think we have covered that possibility as it is written now.sedimentary rocks.  I didn't add Mike's suggestion on depleted matrix becuase I think we have covered that possibility as it is written now. This will work in Vermont and Mark Stolt believes it will help in the south.This will work in Vermont and Mark Stolt believes it will help in the south. Keep sending further comments.Keep sending further comments.      Steve Steve  Version III.Version III. VIII Mineral soils that have a dark surface layer (O, A, or Ap horizons), with matrix value of 3 or less and matrix chroma of 2 or less, that is directly underlain by layers of mineral soil material, that VIII Mineral soils that have a dark surface layer (O, A, or Ap horizons), with matrix value of 3 or less and matrix chroma of 2 or less, that is directly underlain by layers of mineral soil material, that

have a matrix chroma of 2 or less and 2% or more redox concentrations, that extends to depth of at least 20 inches below the top of the mineral soil layers.have a matrix chroma of 2 or less and 2% or more redox concentrations, that extends to depth of at least 20 inches below the top of the mineral soil layers. User Note: These soils usually form in parent materials derived from dark colored rocks such as but not limited to phylitte, limestone, carboniferous sedimentary rocks, or lacustrine sediments that are User Note: These soils usually form in parent materials derived from dark colored rocks such as but not limited to phylitte, limestone, carboniferous sedimentary rocks, or lacustrine sediments that are

high in clay. high in clay. 9/229/22 Steve, hereby some editorial changes:Steve, hereby some editorial changes:   VIII.  Mineral soils that have a dark or very dark surface layer (O, A, or Ap horizons) that is directly underlain by layers of mineral soil material that have a matrix chroma of 2 or less and 2% or more VIII.  Mineral soils that have a dark or very dark surface layer (O, A, or Ap horizons) that is directly underlain by layers of mineral soil material that have a matrix chroma of 2 or less and 2% or more

redox concentrations that extends to depth of at least 20 inches below the top of the mineral soil layers.redox concentrations that extends to depth of at least 20 inches below the top of the mineral soil layers. User Note: These soils usually form in parent materials derived from dark colored rocks such as but not limited to phyllite, limestone, or lacustrine sediments that are high in clay. User Note: These soils usually form in parent materials derived from dark colored rocks such as but not limited to phyllite, limestone, or lacustrine sediments that are high in clay. Pete VenemanPete Veneman 9/229/22 Mike,Mike, What you wrote also captures my concern about the possible presence of a depleted matrix in a layer within 20 inches. I believe my version also does because no range for matrix value is given. Either What you wrote also captures my concern about the possible presence of a depleted matrix in a layer within 20 inches. I believe my version also does because no range for matrix value is given. Either

one covers a layer of matrix value of 4 or more deeper in the profile but within 20 inches.one covers a layer of matrix value of 4 or more deeper in the profile but within 20 inches. Eitherway works for me.Eitherway works for me. Steve GSteve G 9/229/22 Steve & All,Steve & All, My first comment is that once you say "Dark" saying "Very Dark" isMy first comment is that once you say "Dark" saying "Very Dark" is redundant and should be stricken. I believe this applies to all theredundant and should be stricken. I believe this applies to all the Indicators that say "dark or very dark". Dark includes very dark, so it isIndicators that say "dark or very dark". Dark includes very dark, so it is just extra language to confuse.just extra language to confuse. Use "layer(s)" so that 1 or more are included.Use "layer(s)" so that 1 or more are included. "of mineral soil material" is not needed."of mineral soil material" is not needed. In a previous email you say " It will not exclude the possibility of aIn a previous email you say " It will not exclude the possibility of a gleyed or depleted matrix showing up deeper in the profile."gleyed or depleted matrix showing up deeper in the profile." I believe that the present language does eliminate any layers within 20" that don't have redox. so: 4/1, 5/1, 6/1, etc. layers will not fit this indicator. As long as that situation is captured elsewhere in theI believe that the present language does eliminate any layers within 20" that don't have redox. so: 4/1, 5/1, 6/1, etc. layers will not fit this indicator. As long as that situation is captured elsewhere in the indicators it is no big deal. However; as long as 1 must interpret that depleted matrices start immediately below the A horizon, then there seems to be a loophole in the system. For example, a soil with a indicators it is no big deal. However; as long as 1 must interpret that depleted matrices start immediately below the A horizon, then there seems to be a loophole in the system. For example, a soil with a

dark surface layer underlain by 3/2 or 3/1 with 2% redox (Bg?) and then 4/1, 5/1 etc.dark surface layer underlain by 3/2 or 3/1 with 2% redox (Bg?) and then 4/1, 5/1 etc. (Cg) meets no indicator.(Cg) meets no indicator. I would ask the entire committee to consider eliminating all references to A or Ap and replace with "layer(s)" throughout the entire document. Think about it.I would ask the entire committee to consider eliminating all references to A or Ap and replace with "layer(s)" throughout the entire document. Think about it. My rewrite is now this:My rewrite is now this: VIII. Mineral soils that have a dark surface layer(s) that is directlyVIII. Mineral soils that have a dark surface layer(s) that is directly underlain by layer(s) that have a matrix chroma of 2 or less and 2% or more redox concentrations and / or a depleted matrix that extends to depth of at least 20 inches below the top of the mineral soil underlain by layer(s) that have a matrix chroma of 2 or less and 2% or more redox concentrations and / or a depleted matrix that extends to depth of at least 20 inches below the top of the mineral soil

surface layer.surface layer. User Note: This hydric indicator is most commonly found in soils derived from dark parent materials such as, but not limited to, phylitte, limestone, carboniferous what ya call it, or lacustrine sediments User Note: This hydric indicator is most commonly found in soils derived from dark parent materials such as, but not limited to, phylitte, limestone, carboniferous what ya call it, or lacustrine sediments

that are high in clay.that are high in clay. Mike.Mike. 9/229/22 Greetings,Greetings, I recieved a number of comments and here is the the second draft.  There were several comments about including a reference to spodic and questions about not mentioning dark materials.I recieved a number of comments and here is the the second draft.  There were several comments about including a reference to spodic and questions about not mentioning dark materials.   If we put this before the spodic indicators we don't need the spodic reference.  With out the spodic reference this should become Indicator VIII.If we put this before the spodic indicators we don't need the spodic reference.  With out the spodic reference this should become Indicator VIII.   Personally I don't see the need to include "dark minerals" as a criteria. However I'm not against it either so I have added a user note to that effect.Personally I don't see the need to include "dark minerals" as a criteria. However I'm not against it either so I have added a user note to that effect.   Any further concerns?Any further concerns? SteveSteve

End ResultEnd Result

1) A__. Dark Mineral Soils. A mineral surface layer with value 3 or less that is directly underlain by a layer with a matrix value less than 4. Within 30 cm (12 inches) of the top of the mineral soil material or directly underlying the mineral surface layer, whichever is shallower, there are 2 percent or more redoximorphic features that extend to either a depth of 50 cm (20 inches) below the top of the mineral soil material or to a depleted or gleyed matrix. The matrix chroma is 2 or less to a depth of 50 cm (20 inches) below the top of the mineral soil material.

•Dark Mineral indicator developed based on data.

•VIII Approved for version 3.

•Tested in field.

•Re-write for National

Field Indicators FeaturesField Indicators Features

Dynamic document –changes made as a result of new Dynamic document –changes made as a result of new data, agreed to by the NEHSTC.data, agreed to by the NEHSTC.

Hierarchal key – starts with wettest soils (few Hierarchal key – starts with wettest soils (few morphologies) to the dry-end of hydric soils.morphologies) to the dry-end of hydric soils.

Looks for a combination of soil morphologies at Looks for a combination of soil morphologies at certain depths to determine if the soil meets the certain depths to determine if the soil meets the definition of a hydric soil.definition of a hydric soil.

If a soil meets an indicator it can be considered a If a soil meets an indicator it can be considered a hydric soil. If no indicators are met it does hydric soil. If no indicators are met it does NOTNOT mean the soil is non-hydric (professional judgment).mean the soil is non-hydric (professional judgment).

Field Indicators FeaturesField Indicators Features

Three Versions 1995, 1998, and 2004

Data and DocumentationData and Documentation

Early tours were conducted throughout region Early tours were conducted throughout region to study the wetlands and soils.to study the wetlands and soils.

UMASS well study set up about 15 sites, wells UMASS well study set up about 15 sites, wells sunk, veg. data recorded, Eh, etc. Sites were sunk, veg. data recorded, Eh, etc. Sites were toured by committee and NHSTC.toured by committee and NHSTC.

Each year the NEHSTC hosts a hydric soil Each year the NEHSTC hosts a hydric soil tour to address a particular indicator (2002 – tour to address a particular indicator (2002 – disturbed, 2003 – dark pm, 2004 – mesic disturbed, 2003 – dark pm, 2004 – mesic spodic, 2005 – folists, 2006 spodic, etc.).spodic, 2005 – folists, 2006 spodic, etc.).

2007 – ACOE Region 1 purchased 15 soil 2007 – ACOE Region 1 purchased 15 soil temp loggers, 10 continuous water loggers, temp loggers, 10 continuous water loggers, IRIS tubes and wells – deployed on study sites IRIS tubes and wells – deployed on study sites (red soils, dark, spodics, marine sediments, (red soils, dark, spodics, marine sediments, HTM) throughout region.HTM) throughout region.

Review of OSEDs, thesis studies, Reg IV sites, Review of OSEDs, thesis studies, Reg IV sites, State regulators data, private sector delineation State regulators data, private sector delineation sites.sites.

Data and DocumentationData and Documentation

The MergerThe Merger

With regional supplement coming in to play With regional supplement coming in to play and general agreement on the need to have one and general agreement on the need to have one set of indicators, the NEHSTC focused efforts set of indicators, the NEHSTC focused efforts over past two years reviewing both guides, over past two years reviewing both guides, deciding how they differ, which of our deciding how they differ, which of our indicators fit National, and which of ours indicators fit National, and which of ours needs to be added for our region (New needs to be added for our region (New England).England).

The MergerThe Merger

Members met in each Members met in each region (frigid, mesic, region (frigid, mesic, problem indicators, etc.) problem indicators, etc.) to review data, to review data, descriptions, OSEDs.descriptions, OSEDs.

Decided which of our Decided which of our indicators did not fit the indicators did not fit the National.National.

Numerous meetings to Numerous meetings to re-write our proposal for re-write our proposal for the National.the National.

QuestionsQuestions

Meets III!

Meets A1!

Why can’t we be friends?Why can’t we be friends?

Questions have been asked why the NTCHS was Questions have been asked why the NTCHS was not involved with NEHSTC Indicators.not involved with NEHSTC Indicators.

1.1. They were. During early development they were contacted They were. During early development they were contacted to participate and review. Most declined.to participate and review. Most declined.

2.2. Some disagreements, near fights, personal issues between Some disagreements, near fights, personal issues between folks, a race to who could succeed first.folks, a race to who could succeed first.

3.3. National folks toured the adopt-a-well study, some members National folks toured the adopt-a-well study, some members at a meeting later said they “never saw one #&$^# hydric at a meeting later said they “never saw one #&$^# hydric soil the whole time they were in NE”. soil the whole time they were in NE”.

4.4. One member asked to give presentation at a NE meeting and One member asked to give presentation at a NE meeting and just showed photos of NTCHS members asleep!just showed photos of NTCHS members asleep!

5.5. New England Hydric Soil Mafia was termed.New England Hydric Soil Mafia was termed.