Focus Group 3

Me What is the biggest health problem facing everyone today?

FG34 Cancer

FG33 Well firstly it’s going to be a big, big task to suit everyone and meet everyone’s needs. I’ve been a diabetic for over thirty four years ___+ And there’s a lot of people you know they go there, and they make you an appointment and they’ve only be there five minutes and they’re complaining about waiting, I’ve told ‘em I’ve been there an hour but I’m all right. So long as it gets done I said if you lived in America you’d feel it in your purse, you’d be paying thousands of dollars for what you’re going to get here now that’s how I see it. To me they’ve been good to me because otherwise if they hadn’t looked after me with all these tablets especially now, if I had to pay for them I wouldn’t be able to afford them, see, that’s it. I’ve no complaints against the national health in fact I think sometimes people take advantage. As one lady said she was up at Northern General once and she said some of the patients thought it was private like you know they wanted this they wanted that. Now I’ve got a sister she’s a retired matron and the one thing she always used to say, I hate the bell ringers, that’s them who are in the bed pressing the button every second. What time is it? When is the food? That type of thing you see.

Me So it’s meeting everyone’s demands?

FG33 Well it’s a big job to please everyone isn’t it? I mean if you’ve got to please everyone well we’d be in a lovely world wouldn’t we? If we could please everyone but you can’t.

Me Yes. Any other problems?

FG37 Dementia.

Me Why do you think that?

FG37 Because we seem to be in an aging population and it’s seems to be more prevalent now I mean when I was young you’d got very few old people ___+

Me Okay.

FG31 I’ve a friend, going on from what this lady said about Dementia. I had a friend who was quite alert she worked for the Cheshire Home at Tuckley doing the wages and she started with Alzheimer’s and she’s getting all the help really. I’m really happy with the ___ I’m one that luckily doesn’t have to go to the hospital but my husband like this gentleman he can’t speak highly of the Hallamshire Hospital in Sheffield and these people, we were discussing it with a friend who’s also got problems, who attends the Hallamshire and these people that say there’s all these dirty, you know, at the Northern General, MRSA, you don’t really know whether it is as bad as what they say. We’ve got a local florist and somebody we know said he had his leg off because he’s got, contracted this MRSA, is it what they call it?

Me Yes.

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FG31 So I wonder if it’s as bad as what they say is it as bad as that or it’s quite interesting really. My husband begs to differ because he thinks the health service is wonderful but then again there are people would sort of think it’s terrible so.

FG33 The worst place, see I’d volunteer like for surgeons for examinations and all like that and they once allocated me to Northern General well I went in Vickers well oh dear me. The patients who walk in there are depressed as soon as they opened door.

FG31 It’s down now.

FG33 Down now it were terrible. They were doing examinations and there were

FG31 Well it is very old isn’t it?

FG33 Patients walking round and going to the toilet next door you know it was absolutely it was a disgrace.

Me FG34, you think cancer?

FG34 Yes.

Me Why do you think that?

FG34 Because it is the, you know, the most popular illness of this area and you know, there are so many kinds of cancers. If I take a look at it in my own family. My grandfather had prostate cancer my mother had lymphoma and every cancer timing is really crucial so when you go to the hospital you shouldn’t wait for a long time to finish all your tests because it is very important to start the treatment as soon as possible. And as I can observe it takes lots of time for people in the UK to finish the tests and finish the diagnosis process and then start the treatment.

FG31 But as a young person, I have three granddaughters but one she’ll be going to university soon she’s eighteen and she is sort of, she never stops talking she’s frightened to death, she keeps asking me is there anyone in the family who has got cancer she’s so scared of it really I don’t know why. I think younger people, probably it does get to them. You know people around them, as you say, it’s quite scary I suppose.

Me Any other problems?

FG35 Well I think we’re very lucky in Sheffield actually we’ve got some very, very good hospitals and there is some very good doctors and nurses. I mean there are things that want ironing out I’m sure there are but I think on the whole, of course they’re teaching hospitals aren’t they? I mean the Weston Park, I mean you say, you know, that, but it is supposedly one of the best cancer hospitals in England.

FG33 Yes.

FG35 So we’re very, very fortunate really. I mean I take what you said about the dementia, I think probably as you get older, I think these things the care of the elderly could be you know certainly could be better. People like you say there’s a ward in the Northern General is it

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Brierley or something.

FG33 I think it’s Brierley yes.

FG35 And they have a lot of old people on there and I don’t think they always get that isn’t quite as good.

FG33 No.

FG35 I mean I know we’re going from something very different here but we’ve also got and it’s not really attached to St Luke’s Hospice is absolutely wonderful. And I just think we’re very lucky in Sheffield that we’ve got some very, very good hospitals and I think we’ve got some good people in there too.

FG33 I definitely agree with you.

FG35 I mean as you’ve said there are certain things lots of things that could be helped whether they think this open plan that they have in, sort of alcoves isn’t it? Now whether they think this is a good idea. The thing that probably annoys me more than anything is if you go and ask a question there’s usually about four behind the desk, and is this right?

FG33 Yes.

FG35 You go and ask a question can I have a? And I’ll see to you in a minute. Mrs so and so wants a, I’ll just see to it in a minute. Sort of held back from the desk which is not always very nice but apart from that, people that complain about food, I think they should remember that they’re not in the Hilton they’re there to be made better and I think we’ve got a lot to be thankful for here.

FG33 Yes I agree with you.

FG32 Yes I think a lot of the problems that I perceive come from the fact that we’ve got limited resources in the NHS you’ve got limited funding and people have very high expectations that now with our living standards, if we get ill we expect to be cured no matter what age we are and we a very much aging population, the elderly are getting more and more sick and we’re spending more money on that and younger people have very high expectations as to the levels that they should be cured and treated for. So you’ve got lots of demands on very limited resources because we expect to be treated and we expect that we should be treated to the highest standards and these things cost a lot of money. Yet because we’re funded through the NHS and it comes out of taxes people are perhaps very unwilling to pay the money that it is needed in order to invest in the system. I think perhaps the demands are such that we all have different priorities by saying cancer or dementia, they are all different priorities to different people and to try and meet all of those priorities is really difficult given the fact that you’ve only got limited resources in order to meet those demands.

Me Okay. I’ve got another question just to move on a bit further you seem to be quite happy with the Health Service particularly around Sheffield but acknowledge there are problems none the less, what do you think the government should do to improve the health of the public, not necessarily new hospitals but the health of the public what

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can the government do?

FG35 Well they’ve started that with Jamie Oliver haven’t they? I mean food is a very, very important thing. I mean we’ve proved this, he’s proved this by saying all this, parents send their kids to Macdonald’s and they just have a heap of tripe. The only good thing about it is the chips and really they’re a bit salty.

FG33 But the trouble is nowadays it’s all this junk food.

FG35 That’s right it’s all pre-packed stuff and that’s the first thing, it’s the food I think.

FG31 I think a lot of elderly people, now they eat this food from Marks and Spencer’s, it’s so easy and I don’t think, even I don’t cook because I’ve done it all I’ve got the T shirt, you know when you’ve done it for a family for years and years and years. I mean, I have elderly neighbours who can’t get out they cook even though, they just give it away but I mean I do think there is some good food which is pre-packed as you say. I think people don’t seem to cook as much as they used to do. Probably you get to an age where, cos my husband is nearly eighty and start thinking about my diet he’s just not interested.

Me What could the government do to improve diet?

FG37 I think they should have cookery classes at school.

FG31 Yes like they used to do.

FG35 Yes I agree with you. I think that’s the first thing that should be brought back again. I agree with you one hundred percent I was just going to say that.

FG31 I can remember going to cookery classes.

FG35 Half of these young people don’t know how to cook

FG37 Haven’t anybody to teach them either, it’s a generational thing.

FG35 That’s true, that’s right. I think there should be classes in school you know they’re taught these things.

FG36 They are though they are taught something at school. Your egg and bacon stuff. My daughter starting at senior school and I went to the school where she’s starting in September and there’s all cookery classes and stuff so they do that. I think it’s down to parents me, a lot of parents are out doing all sorts of work and women, they’ve never had it so good with careers now, do you know what I mean, they’re not there to cook properly and they’re not there to teach the children how to cook. Do you know what you mean? My daughter’s eleven and I supervise her and she knows how to do mashed potatoes, she knows how to do Spaghetti Bolognese, Tagliatelle, you know I’m teaching her so that when she starts cookery at school and they do it at school and you know.

FG35 Do they actually do that then?

FG36 Yeah. My daughter doing starts, you know Y6, it’s new to me stuff what’s she learning now is what I learned at 14, 15. You wouldn’t

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believe it all kinds of stuff and she says to me I’ve got to do ?twelve? for next week’s task and she says to me do you know this, what’s this then? And I’m thinking what sort of a granite and sandstone, don’t ask me Coral I’m tired I’m tired the stuff they’re learning is so advanced.

FG31 Well it is now.

FG36 It’s so advanced it’s unbelievable. And you know this school dinner business you know this Jamie Oliver he’s not in Sheffield they don’t have meals like that. I also work at the school I’ve was saying to the head chef I said weren’t that a load of rubbish with Jamie OIiver. She said, ‘I know I can’t believe it, they’re giving schools in Sheffield a bad name.’ And you don’t have rubbish at schools in Sheffield. It’s London what weren’t spending all that money.

FG31 That’s true yeah.

FG36 Like at the school they might have vegetables and chicken and pasta or they have rice. They’ve got a choice of fruit after, stuff like that; it’s not chips, chips, chips. They eat a healthy balanced meal there. We had this business with Jamie Oliver having to bring it to every-bodies attention. Did you see that documentary Macdonald’s did you see it?

FG34 Yes, super size me

FG36 Unbelievable. He put two and a half stone on.

FG34 Maybe it would be better to increase the number of programmes on cookery that they show on TV rather than increasing number of cookery classes because some people may not be able to go to the classes like once a week but it would be easier to watch them and every one of every age can watch them easily. So if they have these kinds of healthy diet programmes very often on TV it would help much more.

FG32 I think you can also do it through advertising as well which is very, very powerful because they do studies showing that so many adverts that children see are all for sugary food and also for food that they shouldn’t be eating and if you could try and get famous people to advertise eating an apple then that’s going to have a different effect to try and say to them look it is healthy. They are moving towards that with smoking and you have adverts about drink driving, I think perhaps just trying to move it into other aspects to try and promote a healthier lifestyle.

FG36 I don’t think a lot of parents want to spend money you know because fruit’s expensive isn’t it? If you go round Safeways,…

FG32 It is yeah but so is going to Macdonald’s.

FG36 I’ve always had a fruit bowl I have a fruit bowl all the time, my boy, he’s eight, and he’ll have two oranges in the morning, Weetabix and porridge but it’s how you feed them.

FG31 Yes I think you’re right.

FG36 You know my kids haven’t got an ounce of fat on them because they

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walk to school, I don’t own a car, I catch a bus in winter, I also walk. Exercise is good for you, my son plays football, my daughter does Karate, so I’m involved in their lives but I’ve a niece and she’s the same age as my daughter and she’s about two stone, she’s about nine stone nearly and she’s not eleven till this year but she sits down all the time. Her mum’s got a biscuit barrel all the time, they don’t cook they go down to Macdonald’s, drive about in a car. They don’t do hobbies and stuff like that.

FG31 No they don’t.

FG36 I think children know about eating healthily because my son’s got all things that he were making healthy sandwiches, he made a sandwich box from about six, in infants. As I said, them stats things she’s got, in fact if I’d have known I would’ve brought them to show you they’re knowing about what makes you body do this and protein and carbohydrates, she’s having to do all these things as prep for her exams next week. She knows, I wouldn’t have known, about those saturated fats at that age. See you didn’t know did you? You didn’t know about anything like that.

FG32 But then surely that’s part of the problem as well it’s not only kids that need educating. I’m not that much older and I wasn’t educated about that at school so I wouldn’t know about saturated fats so it’s not only educating the young is it?

FG36 A third of children in Europe are overweight isn’t it?

FG32 Yeah.

FG34 Maybe it’s because the price of all chocolates and ready meal are much more cheaper than the price of fruits and vegetables.

FG36 It’s the marketing too isn’t it?

FG34 Yes you try to prepare your own meal and use vegetables and ingredients it will be much more expensive than buying fish and chips.

FG32 I don’t think they are that expensive I don’t think they are

FG36 If you want chips then it’s a sack of potatoes and a chip pan isn’t it, really, you know? It’s with the cheap budgets isn’t it?

FG31 It’s a cheap meal isn’t it?

FG32 Yes some exotic things maybe.

Me Right I’m going to give you one potential health programme here and I want you to pass it round and I’ll read it out and then have a think about it and tell me what you think. You’re going to have to swap your glasses over there I’m afraid…

Fluoridation policy………

FG33 Well I think, according to first off the children I mean, with me I’m getting on I’m eighty one years old, 1924 I was born. And in them days the children were always eating sweets when I was at school with them, and they used to be all this going to the Education

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Committee.

FG31 Yes.

FG33 Well I think myself that the children nowadays are eating so many sweets because in the shops, supermarkets they’re always digging in on the sweets. I mean now you fill a bag they might be eating half a pound of sweets.

FG31 Mind you that’s parents again isn’t it?

FG33 But you see I’ve seen it with children they’ve got it themselves they just pass the bag to their mother to pay you see. And I think myself that some of it is you know sweets like boiled sweets you know pear drops and all like that, it could be that. It used to be like that in the olden days.

Me So you’re saying you don’t have to do this you should just stop children eating sweets?

FG33 Well I’m not going to because I haven’t had much to do with it you know with fluoride. I think myself they are eating too many sweets. I’d leave the fluoride alone.

FG36 I know my little boy had a filling and I couldn’t believe it you know you think I’ll buy Kellogg’s Frosties, all the expensive stuff, pure juice you know that sort of stuff. The dentist told me highest sugar content is in tomato sauce and pure juice. That’s what’s rotting children’s teeth.

FG33 Well that’s it you see that sugar in it, they’re getting the sugar in it.

FG36 Yes. The best thing is Weetabix, porridge, bit of butter and milk. Like you’re treating them, I don’t mean fizzy pops, you know like ketchup with chips and Sugar Puffs says it itself when you think about it but I was buying orange juice every morning ___+ teeth

FG31 Yeah. Yeah.

FG36 What they’re doing now with children when they know they’ve got decay on their young teeth they came to me and seeing them off ___+ Don’t they? ___+ Just in case.

FG31 I think sometimes people have poorly teeth that easily go bad, I’ve got three granddaughters, some have got lovely teeth but others haven’t you know.

FG36 Some saliva can get rid of sugar and some can’t. Like my mouth I want a filling, I didn’t eat a lot sweets, I’ve had a lot of filled. My daughter’s the same, she’s never had sweets, but filling.

FG31 Tooth decay yes.

FG36 That’s what he told me but my son he just, ate and ate and ate, he’s had one filling, it’s to do with your mouth isn’t it?

FG33 What amuses me is this, you get these coloured people you can see them all, beautiful white teeth. Wherever you go they’re always there, beautiful, glistening, white teeth. I once asked one, ‘What toothpaste?’ ‘I don’t use toothpaste,’ he says Beautiful teeth. Where

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do we go from there?

FG31 Think obviously eat well

FG33 What do they have?

FG31 Whether it’s the diet and that was it.

FG33 Must be something

Me Well what do you think about putting fluoride in water?

FG33 Is it already in our water?

Me Not in Sheffield.

FG33 Oh I thought, if it’s not in Sheffield, then we can’t really say anything about it can we?

Me Well you can say whether you want it

FG36 Have got, dots on their teeth, now haven’t they though, a lot of people, like it says here that they’ve go dots and stuff in their teeth calcium and stuff. A lot of people won’t want that ‘specially children, if they’re growing

FG31 I don’t think I would be bothered, I’ve got misgivings really because the water’s been here sort of thing for years hasn’t it? The water in Sheffield is very good. The kettles don’t fur up or anything. My husband used to travel around different areas, he said really it’s wonderful water, Yorkshire water.

FG33 Oh yeah it furs up a lot in London. You know, down south.

FG31 Well this is it, yeah

FG33 That’s it, furs up a hell of a lot down South.

FG36 This area you know I wouldn’t think it was necessary but that’s my opinion.

FG38 I’m in favour as long as the concentration is not excessive, the concentration must be kept down to a safe limit.

Me But generally in favour?

FG38 Yeah in favour yeah.

FG34 I think if it doesn’t have any other side effects it doesn’t change the taste of the water you know doesn’t do any harm. I think they can try it if it halves the number of decayed teeth.

FG32 Can I ask how expensive it is?

Me You can but I wouldn’t know the answer.

(laughter)

FG32 What I was going to say is if it’s incredibly expensive then it maybe

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that the money’s better spent elsewhere but if it’s not going to cost very much to do and it’s got lots of positive advantages and no disadvantages I think it would be a good idea.

FG37 Has anyone contacted the local population to see what they think about this generally? I think really you would need to get people’s agreement to it.

Yes (several)

FG37 A poll sort of thing

Me There’s been I know of a couple of surveys in Sheffield. I think the legislation changed a few years ago where you can add it to water if the local population is in favour.

FG31 I think you’d have to get people’s agreement I don’t think you can impose it.

Me Well what I was wondering about is not so much whether you’d vote yes of no is why would you vote yes or no? You’ve mentioned side effects, costs.

FG31 I don’t think it would really be all that beneficial.

FG37 I think I would vote for it. My son and daughter in law they’re dentists and they think it’s a good idea.

Me But why?

FG37 Because it would reduce the amount of pain and suffering that the children and parents have.

FG38 Could I make a comment that about seven years ago there was an incident where some sewerage and excrement had accidentally got into the water works feeding part of Sheffield and several people went down with sharp diarrhoea as a result. That might make, fluoridisation would go part of the way at least to preventing that.

Me So a good side effect? The fact that it’s compulsory, if they do it everyone gets it, does that cause problems with anyone?

FG32 It does a bit

FG31 No.

FG33 I think it might.

Me You say no, doesn’t bother you.

FG31 If it was compulsory I shouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

FG32 I think, do other places do it other than Sheffield?

Me I think one place does. Hartlepool had it naturally, they’ve got high concentrations anyway.

FG32 So surely if, nobody told us we’d probably be oblivious anyway.

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(Laughter)

FG32 Surely what you don’t know can’t hurt you.

Me FG37 you said?

FG37 Well I just, I just don’t agree imposing things on people, you know, big brother imposing things on people.

FG31 Give people a choice

FG37 If people are strongly against it. Well I mean if you go with the democratic vote, majority vote for it then fine but I think people ought to have a say

FG33 We’re on about water, a friend, one of my mates worked in a waterworks he always used to say that Sheffield’s got the finest pure water, he always said that and he’ll say that to you today, cos they have got the best water. You go down south and make a cup of tea. (Laugh) You make a cup of tea in Sheffield, you’ll see the difference he says, he’s right. He worked for them for many years and he said that they had the best water, Sheffield.

FG38 That’s right.

FG33 Yes. The finest water.

Me Well if you add fluoride to it, it will improve teeth.

FG33 Well you see that’s it, I mean as he says, they’ve got the best, he said we’ve have best water, he’s seventy eight and he’s still trotting around, he’s trying to get into a half marathon and he’s always said it’s marvellous water and he’s drinking it all day long, he said it’s great. He said you get this spring water he says and you have a drink of spring water and give me a nice drop of the other and pass it to someone and tell me which is which? He said nine times out of ten you’ve got wrong one.

FG35 Well does it taste that different?

Me You won’t taste it.

FG35 That’s what I mean we do have good water round here we’ve got so many dams around here so you can see them all, go to Ladybower, you go to Bradfield, you can go to anywhere.

Me It’s about 3 parts to a million that will go in.

FG33 They buy this here water now, this spring water. When I was young we used to go to Cordwall Valley

FG38 That’s right.

FG33 And if you went out there there used to be a trough and a spring, beautiful water, now that’s what Buxton and all that area. I worked round Buxton and so on and that’s what he said it’s all the springs.

FG31 Buxton Water.

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FG33 Buxton Water.

Me Anyone over here got any worries about having compulsory additions?

FG36 No not really, don’t really know would we unless you told us.

FG34 Another thing is if it’s something good then it doesn’t really matter whether it’s compulsory or not.

Me I’ve got another one now for you. This is the last one. Pass this round I’m going to ask you to read it.

FG35 This is good.

Me Speed limit policy…….

FG31 Well I think I would be in agreement with it. In Blackpool apparently they have a 30 mile everywhere, all, it’s just 30 mile wherever, but my daughter she was knocked down a few years ago in Ecclesfield and very badly injured and you know to see suffering of somebody that has been knocked down, I would be in agreement with lowering the speed limit, myself anyhow because you do see what happens, read what happens to children and adults because cars now they just, well it’s horrendous the traffic on the roads now. I’m in agreement to slow traffic down.

FG35 It’s the cars isn’t it? They build cars for speed and people speed in them. I think it’s basically a good idea but how can you impose it because they just don’t bother. They don’t bother to look half the time.

FG33 Still going round ‘hello, hello’ (using mobiles) driving, they’re still

FG31 The sentences aren’t severe enough are they, and the fines.

FG33 You’ve only got to take now Brook Hill corner, you know where the Jessop’s ___+ was, there, well I’ve been knocked down twice and I’ve been going on crossings, on green. And each time I’ve got to that end, and he couldn’t see me and you know for a fact the others just follow they shot straight through. Well of course one, a few weeks ago there was a woman he just caught her. Now how do you stop that, that’s coming up on the inside have, you got me? Two lines of traffic see, one, you’re coming across and then there’s clear way on the inside and he can shoot straight through and you’re coming over the crossing. How do we stop that? Now that’s happening regularly up there especially around by the ___ ‘cos there’s a lot of old age pensioners. As soon as I get there, now, I mean one of the lights has been out a month and I’m fed up with phoning them up a month. Up to the back end here. But every time I get there I’m grabbing hold of folk about twenty years younger than me, ‘Come on I’ll see you across.’ It’s on the inside it’s regular. What do you do, I mean he just pulled up and he’s speeding through?

Me So you don’t think this will make a difference?

FG33 Well actually my idea what I thought was this. Three way right, make it ___ So then therefore, he goes there, he can’t get through can he?

Me Any other views?

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FG38 Well point number 1 I think it’s cloud cuckoo land I don’t think motorists would ever obey that 20 mile restriction. They don’t care where the police radar signals are, oh yes 20 mph approaching otherwise they’ll go on 30 miles an hour if not quicker. But the point I want to make is careful driving is not dependent on speed limits, it’s awareness of possible pedestrians rushing out, he knows where to go cautiously and where it’s safe to go on faster. So I think this is not on!

FG34 You just can’t tell a person, you can’t, under 20 no way. They’re not going to take any notice.

FG35 The point is if you’ve got a queue behind you they start beeping don’t they?

FG33 Yes that’s right. That’s it beep beep.

FG35 I mean it looks on paper okay but I mean I just can’t see how…

FG33 I don’t see how it’s going to work.

FG35 I can’t, no

FG33 No definitely not.

FG37 You could probably educate people it takes a long time.

FG33 Specially with these young ones

FG37 I mean they’ve done it with drink driving, I mean remember the breathalyser, when it came in everybody used to ignore it. I mean I did. We all used to ignore it, but it’s got to the stage now where it’s got to be quite antisocial

(Overtalking….)

FG36 Went down road ___+ she got a cigarette and a joint in it, as I say he just drove down road and hit ?store vans? and I couldn’t believe it and I don’t drive but why would I want to drive when there’s idiots like that?

FG31 No me neither it’s not safe.

FG36 As they say, that drink driving they don’t do it as much but they just smoke, they’ve just got a joint haven’t they these young ‘uns, in cars I’ve seen it.

FG31 Mind you that would have been an accident with Nassem wouldn’t it, that’s just an incident of speed.

FG35 Yes but that wasn’t in a 30 mile limit.

FG31 No.

FG35 That’s another incident, actually where his car is not fit for Sheffield roads is it?

FG31 No.

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FG33 I mean, old Prince Nasser, he paid £200,000 for a car don’t tell me he’s going to be driving 20 miles an hour with a £3,000 car, I mean he’s ploughed into one hasn’t he?

FG35 I don’t think he’s the type of person to put 20 mile an hour you know.

FG33 He wouldn’t no.

FG35 So that’s just an instance really, you might be right it might it could probably eventually work but…

FG37 It will take a long time.

FG35 Yeah.

FG32 When you’re looking at a 20 mile an hour restriction I don’t think you’re looking at it on all roads that are currently 30 would be 20 are you? Are you looking for residential estates?

Me Housing estates.

FG32 I think in a lot of places, I’d always thought they were quite successful, when you go to a lot of the estates they have got speed bumps, you can’t physically drive, you’re going to wreck your car if you drive over at 40 miles an hour and I also think that okay it would be less realistic to put a 20 mile an hour restriction that people are going to go 20 miles an hour. If we’re honest people in a 30 miles restriction don’t go 30 miles an hour, but if you make that 30 miles an hour zone a 20 miles an hour zone they’ll actually go 30 rather than more like the 40 they’re probably are doing now. So if you try and sort of bring it down a little bit might be better than keeping it as it is at the moment but it may not be as successful as you may well hope.

FG34 I agree with that, because if you degrade it a lot then the number of people that will drive 20 miles per hour will be great because it’s okay you can drive 30 miles per hour but if you degrade it to 20 miles an hour then it will not be that realistic, this is what I think. Also I think this doesn’t totally depend on the speed of the car.

FG32 Personally I know that in 30 miles per hour zones you don’t drive 30 because you get people peeping behind you if you’re driving 30 miles an hour in a 30 zone so realistically most people perhaps go up to about 37, 38, and you’d think that would be acceptable but if you made it then 20 miles an hour I don’t think people then would find that 37 miles an hour acceptable but they might find 30 miles an hour acceptable and then you might be able to reduce it that way.

Me So you sort of think that it’s possibly a good idea because it will work a little bit is that?

FG32 I think it’s a good idea but I think if I’m honest I don’t know whether people would obey that 20 mile an hour restriction but it would reduce people’s speed and if the aim is to just to reduce people’s speed I think would be effective but I don’t think it would be effective with people reducing their speed to that 20 miles an hour, unless you start having massive speed bumps which mean physically you cannot

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travel over 20 miles an hour.

FG33 What do you think of these silent policemen?

FG32 Well I think as a driver everyone hates them but you understand why they’re there.

FG33 But you see I live in a section where at one time they used to come down Western Street speeding but when it was bad weather, when it was cold and icy they’d be coming sliding across to the pavement. And now they’ve put one where on that corner, they’ve put one or two there. Now, bad weather, we’re not afraid, because it checks them you see these white arrows in these rows, I think it’s a good idea. In certain sections, especially when there’s children around and old folk an old folk area.

FG31 I think they’re quite dangerous, they’ve done them at Crookes where I live, all of a sudden they’ve done a lot of work, they jut out and my husbands a professional, he’s drove since about seventeen and as you say it’s not the speed, he’s never had an accident since he was seventeen and now he’s seventy eight, why you know with so many people, he doesn’t think these are a good idea, they jut out and they do seem, even though I’m not a driver. They’re asking really for there to be an accident because they jut out and if you don’t gauge, I suppose if you’re a good driver you do but I don’t think they’re as effective as they hope they were going to be.

FG32 I think when you don’t know the area they can be dangerous.

FG31 Yes.

FG32 And if you do know the area then everybody just slows down.

FG31 In Crookes you see they’ve done a lot of road works, put a lot of these areas, made little, you’ve seen them, for blind people, little studs and that. But I don’t know whether they’re going to be as effective as what they hope. All this money that they will have spent time will tell.

Okay so you’ve had a think about fluoridation of water and we’ve had a think about 20 mile an hour urban speed limits, think of those two together and in what ways do you think they’re similar? If you think of those two together.

FG38 No not similar.

FG31 Choice, people’s choice.

Me Why don’t you think they’re similar ___ and I’ll get back to you?

FG38 Well fluoridation of water the majority would agree that it’s harmless and has some benefits but the 20 mile speed limit will create great controversy.

Me About which bit of it? About which bit of the twenty mile an hour speed limits?

FG38 Oh whether it should be introduced at all.

Me And you …?

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FG31 Well if I understand the question sort of thing it’s people’s choice you know the…

FG32 I think with the teeth situation, okay I do realise people do have tooth decay not through reasons of their own accord but a lot of people do eat sweets and as a result their teeth decay and so forth, whereas in this sense we’re actually trying to prevent something that’s happening that you haven’t chosen to do. You don’t choose to get run over, you don’t choose to have a car crash, so you try to protect the innocent from something whereas with the fluoride case you’re not actually protecting the innocent because people have consciously made the choice to eat those sweets.

FG34 To me they have the same logic behind because with the fluoridation of water you will have less teeth decay, you will have less pain, when you have the 20 mile speed limit once again there will be another probability that you will be seriously injured. Both of them are trying to you know improve the well being of people.

FG32 But at least with the 20 miles an hour restriction it’s a matter of life and death literally whereas with the teeth it’s a matter of teeth are a little bit more decayed.

FG34 Yes.

FG31 But with not being able get to see a dentist now which I think is absolutely horrendous. The situation now I mean I know it’s nothing to do with what you’re talking about, I’ve always taken my, I always have the job as grandparent taking three granddaughters to the dentist and I took two the other day and they just could not give me an appointment and we’ve been going to the same dentist for fifty something years, all through the generations which I think, I mean I know we do well, we have got dentists in Sheffield, other towns haven’t have they? But I mean they ask you to look after your teeth and there aren’t any dentists, where are all the dentists that are being trained in Sheffield?

Me These two policies have any other people got any other ideas why they think they’re similar or different, do you spot any similarities between them or differences between them or?

FG31 Between the fluoride and the….

Me Twenty miles an hour.

FG37 Suppose the effects could save money for the NHS in the long run.

Me For which ones?

FG37 Well both really, you know they’d save dentists work, presumably the NHS subsidises NHS treatment by dentists, it would save people being treated ___+

FG32 But perhaps a little cost as well because it’s not going to be that costly to impose a 20 mile an hour restriction or to put fluoride in the water, it’s probably reducing NHS costs by a lot but with very little

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money on what you’re spending on these projects.

FG33 Do we realise with reducing the speed limit what it’s going to be like on the roads? If they cut the speed limit now. I mean they’re going fast now and they’re still queuing up so what’s it going to be like when they’ve reduced the speed they’re going to be bumper to bumper?

FG35 Oh I just said that.

FG33 These accident repair firms will be making a bomb!

FG38 A good point.

FG33 Yes because I mean now you can see them at night time especially on the top road and it’s half way down road now there’s none of them, at night time some of them are 80 to 100 miles an hour coming up that road and I can’t keep thinking is it Coultard or Smichael or whatever his name is, Shumaker, coming up there I mean let’s be right, when you start cutting down in the town and like that you’ve only got to get two or three tortoises in front and what have you? Calamity!

Me Now the fluoride, if you think of fluoridation.

FG33 Well we can’t say much about the fluoride because we’re not having it are we? Not here.

Me Well we could have it.

FG33 We could, we could and we couldn’t, you see that’s it, how many you think people would vote for it? Nobody knows you see. Nobody knows.

Me It’s usually about 60%.

FG33 What, against?

Me For

FG33 No.

FG38 But if there’s only one common factor with these two issues, it’s that there’s very little to choose, we’re not gaining. Most of us agree that fluoridation is a small benefit but we don’t lose much if we haven’t got it.

FG35 That’s right.

FG38 And the same with the 20 mile speed limit. I don’t think we’re going to lose anything if we don’t get it, that’s my suggestion with the common factor between the two questions.

Me Okay FG36 can you think of anything that would be similar or issues completely different? I’m picking on you now…

FG36 I know you picking on me aren’t you ___+ I don’t know I think it’s some ideas isn’t it for people’s health. Some things that they’re trying to do, saving people’s teeth and that and so they’re not going to get run over. Some ideas for making Sheffield healthy isn’t it?

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FG33 Yes.

FG36 Is that right?

FG33 With the speed would your drivers accept this cutting down?

FG36 No they won’t will they?

FG33 They wouldn’t, you couldn’t trust them to do it. No you can’t.

FG35 Maybe thirty, forty years ago they would but not now.

FG33 They even break the limits now 30 miles an hour aren’t they? These here boys, they go through, police are waiting for them. They please themselves don’t they? They please themselves.

FG31 And they go through red lights

Me Okay final question then I’m going to go round the table. So if you had to vote on whether these went ahead or not. What two issues what two factors would be in the forefront of your mind when you put the X in whatever box what would you be thinking about?

FG31 Well I’d be thinking safety for the twenty miles speed limit and the teeth for the future generations you know children and people that are a lot younger than I am. I have three granddaughters so you know their well being and their children you know my children’s children grandchildren or whatever. That’s what I think, it’s for the future rather than you know, myself.

FG35 Well if I got a vote for the fluoride I should vote for the fluoride because that will probably help my grandchildren’s teeth. For the twenty mile an hour I should probably vote for that as well but having said that I don’t know how they would make people adhere to it. I think the bumps in the road are much better.

Me Which issues would you be thinking of?

FG37 I think for the future well being of people’s teeth and fluoride for that one (fluoridation) and again if these figures are correct it’s worth giving that one (speed) a go as well for the benefits of that.

Me FG33 what two things would be thinking of if you had to vote?

FG33 I can’t see the speed limit, to me it’s impossible.

Me It won’t work?

FG33 It won’t work you’ve got to rely on people to do it and you know what they’ll say.

Me What else would you be thinking of?

FG33 Well I mean fluoride I mean I’m, let’s be right, I can’t be in accord on that because I’ve never been in a place where they’ve had it so I’m not going to jump on it. The speed limit I think would be absolutely ridiculous.

Me Right

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FG38 The common factor is neither of these are essential to which I would add that the twenty miles limit is to be condemned, completely useless.

Me Okay that’s two okay that’s great.

FG33 You could go faster in a horse and cart!

Me FG32?

FG32 Firstly, cost to see how costly it was perhaps then it would give me an indication on whether the money would be better spent on this rather than elsewhere and secondly I’d look at how effective I thought it was going to be, so not only looking at those benefits but if they were realistically going to be achieved.

Me Brilliant

FG34 I would definitely go for the fluoride as I cannot see any disadvantages and I don’t have to do anything so I will definitely go for the fluoride. I believe this will be effective. I am undecided about the other one, most probably I would say yes to this one as well but to be honest I don’t think that I would drive at twenty miles an hour.

Me O.k., FG36?

FG36 This twenty miles an hour, I think it’s a good idea but I don’t think it will work to be honest. As you said I think bumps might be better in residential areas you know what I mean there’s too much traffic. It’s a good idea but I don’t think many people would do it. Fluoride, yes it’s a good idea yes but so many teeth missing and stuff like decay, if parents going to carry on giving them sweets, it’s down to parents isn’t it you know, they give them to eat and pops? It’s all right giving them fluoride but what happens if you’ve like lots of pop? Will it make my washing any cleaner?

Me Ah you’d change your mind then wouldn’t you? You’d change your mind.

FG36 If it gets my washing cleaning that I’ll vote for it!

Me That’s brilliant thanks for your help

Key?word?Uncertain about word___ Word inaudible___+ Several words inaudible(comment) Comment from notes for clarification

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