Sergio Aragonés interview 01

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Doodle King: An Interview with SergioAragones

BYKIM THOMPSONFEB 19, 2011

Originally published inThe ComicsJournal 128, 1989.

If you point out to Sergio Aragones that

hes one of the most recognizable

cartoonists in the world, he has a typically

modest comeback. It goes something like

this: In the first 2 years of his cartooning

career, he did not ha!e any continuing

characters. "herefore, he started using his

self#caricature as a recurring motif,andMADreaders around the world

became familiar with his smiling, broad#

shouldered, strong#$awed, and

e%tra!agantly#moustachioed figure.&hile Aragoness distincti!e physi'ue is

certainly an asset in this regard, the fact that he is recognized e!erywhere he goes is more likely because

hes been e!erywhere and done e!erything ( including making regular appearances on two ")

shows!augh"#nand$pea% &p, America'.&hen you add to this that he*s one of the most prolific and

brilliant cartoonists of his generation, and one of the world*s true gentlemen to boot, you begin to

realize that Aragones* recognition is fully earned. +e deser!es to be a celebrity.

Aragones* tumultuous early days ( born in Spain in -/, brought up in 0rance and 1e%ico ( made

him bilingual !irtually from birth and instilled in him a cosmopolitan spirit that would flower when he

reached adulthood. After an erratic but not unsuccessful career as a cartoonist in 1e%ico during the

*s, Aragones set off to 3ew 4ork in 'uest of fame and fortune in -52. It was only a few months before

he hooked up with the cartooning royalty of the day:MAD.+e immediately became a staple of the

magazine, and has not missed an issue in 2/ years6 he remains 7along with 8on 1artin9 the most

widely#knownMADstaffer.

Aragones* in!ol!ement with comic boo%s,on the other hand, has been a lot more !ariegated. In -5/, he

stumbled into the $ob as a writerplotter for 8; ;omics, working on a number of little#remembered

titles(Jerry !e)is, Angel and *he Ape,and !arious anthology books9 in addition to creating the

legendary+a* !ash. scripted by Ste!e Skeates9. "his culminated in his

-/ co#creation of the humor comiclop-( one of the few bright spots in */s mainstream comics.

&hen the copyright laws were changed in the late */s and comics publishers retaliated with theimplementation of the infamous work#for#hire contract, Aragones was part of a wa!e of cartoonists who

left the field in disgust. +e turned up here and there ( as writerartist on the detecti!e series T.C.
http://www.tcj.com/author/kim-thompson/http://www.tcj.com/author/kim-thompson/http://www.tcj.com/doodle-king-an-interview-with-sergio-aragones-1989/the-comics-journal-no-128-april-1989-2/http://www.tcj.com/doodle-king-an-interview-with-sergio-aragones-1989/the-comics-journal-no-128-april-1989-2/http://www.tcj.com/doodle-king-an-interview-with-sergio-aragones-1989/the-comics-journal-no-128-april-1989-2/http://dev.tcj.com/doodle-king-an-interview-with-sergio-aragones-1989/97-menagerie/http://www.tcj.com/doodle-king-an-interview-with-sergio-aragones-1989/the-comics-journal-no-128-april-1989-2/http://www.tcj.com/doodle-king-an-interview-with-sergio-aragones-1989/the-comics-journal-no-128-april-1989-2/http://www.tcj.com/author/kim-thompson/


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Mars7created for @oe ubert*s ambitious but ephemeral$oourn',as plotterco#creator on Ste!e

Beialoha*s rabbit series for StarCDeach*s /uac%- ( but it took the alternati!e comics e%plosion of the

early *Es to lure him back into the comic book !ineyards on a permanent basis.

If anything has occupied Aragones* attention during the past decade, it*s been 0roo *he anderer.&ith

a fine sense of occasion, Aragones premiered his catastrophically boneheaded barbarian in -E2

inDes*royer Duc%,the benefit comic created to aid Ste!e Ferber in his lawsuit against 1ar!el ;omics

o!er the ownership of +oward the 8uck. 0roothen mo!ed to $ust#formed ?acific ;omics, loyally

sticking around until the company*s collapse and then, after a brief second stopo!er at =clipse, ending

up in 1ar!el*s =pic department, where it became the first creator#owned comic distributed to the

general newsstand market ( only a few years after Aragones had been told in no uncertain terms by

>that tall fellow> 7as he calls former 1ar!el =ditor#in#;hief @im Shooter9 that 1ar!el would ne!er, could

ne!er allow creators to maintain ownership of their work. +olding out had paid off. If 0roois a 1ar!el

comic now, it is in name only. Aragones and his oft#plugged co#conspirators ( letterer Stan Sakai,

colorist "om Buth, and scriptereditelucidator 1ark =!anier ( run the comic like a mini#fiefdom.

=!ery month they send a complete issue to the =pic offices 7courteously lea!ing an inch at the bottom of

the first page for 1ar!el to strip in the names of whiche!er three editors are in charge at the time9 and

e!ery month it gets printed as is. Gnsurprisingly, it*s one of the !ery few late#*Es 1ar!el comics to

show any 'uality, !er!e, or indi!iduality.

;ountless $okes ha!e been made about Aragones* shaky command of =nglish 7which, it should be

pointed out, ishis third language, after all9. >;ommand> may be a misnomer: Aragones sometimes

appears subordinated to the torrent of words that flows from him. 4et this does not stop him from being

one of comics* great con!ersationalists ( articulate, funny, opinionated, and possessed of a limitless

supply of mar!elous anecdotes. After a few minutes, the listener becomes so accustomed to the random

distribution of prepositions, the hit#and#miss approach to tenses, and, most of all, the ma$estic accentthat 2 years of life in the Gnited States could not muffle, that he begins to belie!e this is the onlyway

=nglish should be spoken.

Deading it, howe!er, is another story. After Dobert im notes, >is that

Sergio*s speech is so much more e%pressi!e in its original form. I think of him as the ?icasso of public

speaking: the eyes are drawn on the same side of the face, the arms are connected to the neck... but, by

Fod, it all makes perfect senseH> 3e!ertheless, the editors conferred and decided that 2#odd pages of

this near#@oycean pala!er might strain a less poetically#minded reader*s patience. So im 7whose last

inter!iew for theJournal,with 1oebius in issue E, was conducted entirely in 0rench9 went throughthe three#hour con!ersation and wo!e the !erbal strands into more traditional, if less creati!e, patterns

( which Aragones then !etted, clearing away the occasional snarls that had resisted "hompson*s

attempts at domestication.

;artoonist, scripter, animator, actor, mime, stuntperson, photographer, e%plorer, sculptor, raconteur,

prankster, and polyglot ( a lot of words describe Sergio Aragones. +ere, now, are a few of his.

A Cosmopolitan Childhood

KIM THOMPSON:ou )ere born in $pain.

SE!IO AA!ONES:I was born in Spain, in -/. "his was during the war. 1y father had been

fighting 0ranco, behind the lines. 0rom Spain we mo!ed to 0rance. I don*t remember anything, but (


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THOMPSON:3o) old )ere you )hen you le4*5

AA!ONES:I left there when I was si% months old.

THOMPSON:And you *oo% your 4amily )i*h you. !augh*er6

AA!ONES:I took my family with me. In those times ( were talking E now ( they had whats

called the )ichy section of 0rance. "hats where they sent all the @ewish kids and the people from ?aris,

and they accepted a lot of Spanish refugees: thats where we were. &hat happened is that after a while

there was trouble: the food was scarce, so they started getting rid of the refugees because they needed it

for themsel!es.


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AA!ONES:?ut them one after another. And I remember my first comics. I e!en remember the first

comics I saw in =nglish. I was in the second grade and some kid brought some comics in color. I had

seen Spanish comics, black#and#white comics, but this was so e%traordinary ( to the point that we were

on a break during class and I started $ust looking at the pictures and I forgot to go back to class. And

when the school day ended, I was sitting on the tree in the back of the school $ust looking at these two

comics. It wasnt e!en a lot of them, $ust two. It was a total disco!ery.

THOMPSON:Do you remember )ha* *he comics )ere5

AA!ONES:3o, but I know if I see them, I would recognize them immediately.

THOMPSON:Do you eer go *o conen*ions loo%ing *hrough bac% issues us* *hin%ing *ha* one

day:5

AA!ONES:3o, no. I didnt know comics as comics back then. =!erything was in the same category:

comic strips, cartoons. &hen I was a kid, my parents belonged to an association called Ba ;asa )alencia

( this was all the people from )alencia, where I was born. All the refugees went there once a week to

talk and to make plans for when they were going back. "he meeting hall was on top of a mo!ie theater

that only showed cartoons. So my parents would drop me off there, go to the meeting, and they knew I

was not going to get bored no matter how many times I saw the program ( so the program would go

once, twice, three times, and they would come pick me up and take me home. "o me those were the best

times. And I saw cartoons o!er and o!er and o!er.

THOMPSON:#assume *hose )ere American car*oons.

AA!ONES:4es. "he classic Tom and Jerrys,early>o%o *he Clo)ns,e!erything. &ere still talkingthe Ns. So I grew up with animation, and with the comic strips that were translated from =nglish to

Spanish. "here werent that many comic books ( we had some of the 1e%ican ones ( so I didnt really

grow up with comic books.


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education was !ery strong. I remember, in the third grade we had one book for e!erything. Mne chapter

was history, one chapter was geography, one chapter was natural history, botany, and so on. "he

teacher would gi!e us homework, which would consist in copying ;hapter =le!en, including the

illustrations, which wed ha!e to copy from the book ( like a beetle or a plant, the pistil of a flower, or

soldiers ( that type of thing. All the kids who couldnt draw would lea!e a s'uare where the drawing as,

and I would charge them to draw that. "he e'ui!alent of a few pennies. I would sit there before class

doing this. "hats probably why I draw fast ( because I drew so many of them. I made enough money to

buy a game ( a bullfighting game, little bullfighters and little bulls and stuff, and when I went with my

own money and bought it, my mother wanted me to return it because it was so e%pensi!eH And then, of

course, the teacher found out and that was the end of it.

THOMPSON:Did he no*ice *ha* all *he %ids )ere dra)ing in *he same s*yle5

AA!ONES:I dont think the teacher e!er read them because they were $ust copied from the book. So

that was my first money I e!er made ( with drawings. I remember when I went to my house from the

elementary school by bus, I was one of the last ones to get out of the bus. So I would sit there and tell

stories to the kids all around me, and the ne%t day I would continue them. I was creating them as I was

going along.

The "#rgeoning Cartoonist

THOMPSON:#unders*and *ha* your 4irs* pro4essional sale )as sor* o4 made 4or you.

AA!ONES:"hat was in high school.


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THOMPSON:The bug bi*es you.

AA!ONES:4eah, you start looking at cartoons in a different way. Suddenly you are looking at not

whats in them but how the cartoonists did it, which I ne!er had paid attention to before. &hen I

finished high school, there werent that many magazines you could submit cartoons to. Ja Jawas

probably the only one that was accessible to younger cartoonists. "hrough a roundabout way I met

another 1e%ican cartoonist who wanted to start a magazine. I didnt know how to ink, so I would draw

the cartoons in pencil and be told, K3oH 3oH 3oH "his is how you ink itHO I hated working with a brush. It

was such a comple% thing. Id ne!er studied art ( I $ust wanted to tell the $oke as fast as I could.

Anyway, we started the magazine, which was called Sic. It was !ery small6 we printed it at home. It

included a lot of cartoons from the Gnited States that wed ripped out ( ripped o44.It was !ery

amateurish, but we tried. "hat was in N. And then I entered college in . entered engineering school

because my parents wanted me to be an engineer. It sounded good, you knowL &hen you come from a

=uropean family, you ha!e to ha!e a degree, and my family had always wanted to ha!e an engineer at

home.!augh*er6.

THOMPSON:Beer %no) )hen you can use one.

AA!ONES:K&hat do you want to beLO KAn engineerHO K1y son is going to be an engineerHO And then

I went to engineering school, and I sat there and didnt understand one word. ;ollege is different from

high school, totally different. "eachers dont care about you. "hey $ust go to teach and if you pay

attention, good6 if not, thats your problem. And so I was sitting there, class after class, and I didnt

understand one)ordof it. ;lass after classH And I said, look, this is not what I want. I didnt want to be

an engineer. I wanted to ha!e fun. 3ow, theres no such thing as a generic


7/39

"hat was more or less how I spent those early years: a lot of cartoons sold to magazines ( and a lot of

bartering, too. Id get haircuts for drawing signs for the barber, or draw signs for supermarkets, things

like that. Id make a lot of sales at ;hristmas. I would draw tons of Santa ;lauses on windows with

water#based colors. Mn?l Dia de los Muer*os,the 8ay of the 8ead, all the bread stores sold special

bread on that day, so theyd draw skeletons on their windows ( I drew a lot of those, too. It was a lot of

fun, but also, how do you say, hard knockJL

THOMPSON:ou paid your dues.

AA!ONES:4eah.

THOMPSON:$o ho) come you didn* end up as an archi*ec*5

AA!ONES:&ell, I was a goof#off. I spent a lot of time in the swimming pool, doing a'uatic ballet,

and I was doing my cartoons. Architecture was fun until it became too technical. I liked it a whole lot the

first three years. I liked creating the designs but when we got into the cost of materials and weights and

loads and stuff, it was, K0or hea!ens sake, what am I doing hereL


8/39

cartooning came up, I sort of made myself a curriculum. And one of the things was to spend one year in

=urope to study humor without words, which is what I was doing6 another was to go to the Gnited

States to study merchandising, how to get to the people.


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Also, pantomime style was not popular in the Gnited States in the early 5s. "here were e!en places

that said, KFags without words not accepted.O ;aptionless cartoons, dont e!en bother to show up. It was

!ery strong. So it was twice as hard for me, because they didnt want any cartoons without words ( and

e!ery time they published one, theyd put a caption under it: K&ithout &ords.O!augh*er6.)ery

strange.


10/39

theres been like a brother to me. "hey were incredibly generous with their time and e%pertise.

$i%e atMAD

THOMPSON:ho came up )i*h *he idea o4 *he FMarginals;5

AA!ONES:"hat was me. I wanted to do more, because I grew up in a society where you feel you

need to work a lot to make more money. I!e been !ery fortunate in that Im prolific with ideas. And I

wanted more because once a month wasnt enough for me. I wanted more places to put my

cartoonsHMADhad had marginals before, but they were words ( puns and plays on words, ha!ing to do

with mo!ies. I didnt e!en understand them, and e!ery time I asked them what it meant, because I was

trying to learn =nglish throughMAD,they said, K&ell, you wouldnt understand because that mo!ie is

not playing any more.O "o me it didnt make any sense to ha!e things that were not current, so I went to

Peditor AlQ 0eldstein and asked him if I could do cartoons instead. And he said theyd be too small to be

understood, and that nobody could come up with that many in one issue. I said it could be done6 he said

it couldnt be done. So I drew them the same size, pasted them up in one issue, and showed them to the

editors. "hey had a conference and I guess they decided it could be done. "hey told me, K&ell run them

until you run out of ideas.O So far I ha!ent missed an issue yet, and its been 2/ years. "hey put about 2

in e!ery issue, so thats se!eral thousand of them.

THOMPSON:ha* sie do you dra)

*hem5

AA!ONES:"wice and a half up. I try to

draw them small, because I tend to put

detail. If you draw larger, then youembellish your work. 8rawing small, you

keep the detail it to a minimum, which is

necessary so that when it reduces, people

can read it.

THOMPSON:#s i* hard )or%ing in *he

ery elonga*ed 4orma* < ery horion*al,

ery er*ical5

AA!ONES:3o. Some cartoons youcant do.


11/39

right guy to talk to about this, because I lo!e them more than a business. "hey!e been a family to me.

And $ust like I could ne!er go against my father e!en if hes wrong, I could ne!er go against


12/39

"he people who work forMADare !ery

good writers and !ery good artists. "hey

ha!e maintained the 'uality. &hole new

generations of readers come along and

they laugh their head off, because we are

touching new sub$ects the same old way.

&e arent doing anything wrong. If

suddenly a new magazine came out with

new humor, it would killMAD.


13/39

was waiting for a writer who had promised to bring in two scripts for a comic called oung

Iomance.+e was desperate because the artist didnt li!e in town and had dri!en all the way in for

scripts and they werent there, so he was !ery upset. So I said, K&hy dont you go to lunch with him and

when you come back Ill gi!e them to you.O So I sat in the cafeteria and I wrote two scripts for him. And

@oe was delighted. +e said, KI didnt know you wrote comics.O 3either did I ( Id ne!er done any beforeH

!augh*er6


14/39

THOMPSON:They con*rol *heir charac*ers *o a much grea*er e@*en*.

AA!ONES:Mh, sure. Sure. Id spent two years in =urope. I met many, many cartoonists while I was

o!er there. I went to different magazines to meet them. I went to ilo*e,and I met a lot of the guys

there.

THOMPSON:The mid"s < *ha* )as?ilotesheyday.

AA!ONES:4es. And it was fantastic. I had a few of my cartoons published o!er there. And I also met

the people from3ara">iri


15/39

was !ery low in those times, and the budget for the magazine was !ery low. So when I told the guys

about it, nobody wanted to do it. Also, a main idea behind the comic, which was ne!er used, was that by

now all the undergrounds were disappearing. And I was a fan of the underground comics. "o me, the

undergrounds were one of the only real e%pressions of American youth that came out of that period. All

those incredibly funny guys ( because they were4unny.)ery few of the stories were drawn seriously.

"hey were drawn funny and this was what comics was all about. And so my idea was to use all these

guys. &ell, many of the underground cartoonists didnt want to participate in anything so different, or

o!er which they didnt ha!e any control. A few people did, like Bee 1arrs.

THOMPSON:as *his be4ore or a4*er Marels;omi% i*chen did )i*h underground ar*is*s5 #* )as

called;omi%


16/39

THOMPSON:Did you eer *hin% a* *ha* poin* in *he early *o mid"Ks o4 *rying *o *a%e ano*her s*ab

a* *he syndica*es5

AA!ONES:3o, I ha!e ne!er really wanted to be syndicated. I ne!er had a character. And I ne!er felt

syndication was for me. &hen Id gone to the syndicate, it hadnt e!en been to get a daily ( I $ust

wanted to be part of the union. 3o, I!e ne!er submitted a strip or anything. I ha!e ne!er *hough*of

doing a strip. 0irst of all, it was !ery hard to do a pantomime strip then. "here was3enry


17/39

And I ha!e so many stories of things that ha!e happened at 8;, friends that I met. Mne of the

presidents, 1ark Iglesias, was a friend of mine. I met him a long time ago when &arner merged with

inney. +e was the president of the comic book di!ision, and also the owner of the marina where I had

my boat. So we became friends. It was a !ery beautiful era and I still lo!e all the people at 8;.

?rofessionally, its different. "he way I was treatedJ

I would go there and they would say, K"heres no way that we can e!er gi!e any rights to anybody.O "hey

would take books out to pro!e to me that it was impossible.

THOMPSON:Iigh*, *heyd be brea%ing *he la) i4 *hey le* you %eep *he copyrigh*s.

AA!ONES:And e!ery time I talked to that tall fellow at 1ar!el, he also said it was impossible. And I

didnt ha!e any contacts in 1ar!el, so there was no way *heywere going to do it. "hey later changed

their mind, but at that time, there was no way. I ne!er talked to anybody about 0roo,because I didnt

want anyone stealing the idea6 so I was selling Ka comic bookO which I had in mind. And they werent

e!en able to talk on a theoretical basis ( nothingH "hey wanted nothing to do with it. So I decided I was

going to publish myself.


18/39

THOMPSON:ha* %ind o4 sales )ere

*hey rac%ing up onFroo a* *he *ime5

AA!ONES:I ha!e ne!er been able to

get out of anybody how many they printed,

but in the beginning, at issue number one,

it was about probably , copies. Bater

issues were lower, to the point that they

were only printing , or less of the

early 0roos.Sales were a!erage ( not too

good because, again, it was humor. "he

only thing that probably sa!ed me was that

I had been working withMADfor so many

years that I had a certain following that

liked humor ( or liked what I do.

THOMPSON:And presumably you also

go* a* leas* some Conan 4ans, because

s)ord and sorcery )as going ery s*rong

a* *ha* *ime.

AA!ONES:4eah. It was not an

offensi!e comic. It was drawn

professionally and with care. "hen ?acific

ended up going out of business because of

many other things. I dont think they werethat interested in the publishing end of it.

"hey were more into distributing and big

business.


19/39

had to be a number one because it was totally different from the pre!ious !ersion. Mut of respect for the

readers I already had I didnt want to start all o!er again, but I also didnt want all the new readers I was

going to gain wondering what I was talking about. +ow was I going to start offL "hat was what really

took me a long time, and I figured out the best way: thats how the 1instrel started. I figured out that in

issue number one Id ha!e somebody telling stories about Froo. It was good for the new readers: they

could understand it because I had someone talking about Froo, how idiotic he was. And it was good for

the older readers because he was part of a nice continuity without ha!ing to start all o!er again. And

then by issue two I was back on track. So thats what I did and it worked all right: the transition was

smooth. Mf course, first issues always sell !ery well, and now we were printing hundreds of thousands

because now it was in the direct sales and the newsstand sales. "he sales ha!e been !ery steady.

THOMPSON:Does i* sell be**er in *he direc* sales mar%e* or in *he general mar%e*5

AA!ONES:It sells about the same ( a little more in the direct sales market. 3ot a lot. Still, its a

humor book, and the direct sales market is such a false market that we really dont know how many

people buy it to put it in a plastic bag, how many read it, and how many buy two copies. So its !ery

strange. I dont know whats going to happen with it.

THOMPSON:#*s a hard mar%e* *o read. !e*s *al% abou* ho) you assembled *he F0roo Cre);

Documents

Sergio Aragonés interview 01