SDS PODCAST

EPISODE 347:

HOW TO TELL

YOUR STORY

FOR CAREER

SUCCESS

Kirill Eremenko: This is episode number 347 with Career Coach Kerri

Twigg.

Kirill Eremenko: Welcome to the SuperDataScience podcast. My name

is Kirill Eremenko, Data Science Coach and Lifestyle

Entrepreneur. And each week we bring inspiring

people and ideas to help you build your successful

career in data science. Thanks for being here today

and now let's make the complex simple.

Kirill Eremenko: Do you want a tip on how to become the best data

scientist you can possibly be? Well, here's a tip. This

will take two things. Constant learning and growth,

and constant networking and experience exchange.

And the fact that you're listening to this podcast is

already a great step in both directions.

Kirill Eremenko: But I want you to take the leap. I want you to truly

skyrocket your career. And that's why I'm inviting you

to DataScienceGO, our annual data science conference

which we've been running in the US for three years

and this year it's happening in Los Angeles in October

2020.

Kirill Eremenko: You can get your tickets at datasciencego.com. And

there we combine both aspects. You'll learn from

speakers who will teach you about XGBoost, Python,

BERT, and anything and everything that's most

important in data science right now. And you'll also

network with hundreds ... literally hundreds ... of data

scientists from top companies ranging from Tesla,

Google, SpaceX, Teradata, Red Bull, IBM, Ebay and

many more.

Kirill Eremenko: So if you're ready to take this ultimate step towards

the career of your dreams then get your tickets at

datasciencego.com today and I'll see you there.

Kirill Eremenko: Welcome back to SuperDataScience podcast

everybody. Super excited to have you back here on the

show. Today we've got a very fun episode. An episode

we're going to have lots of laughs. I really enjoyed

connecting with Kerri in today's show.

Kirill Eremenko: It's going to be very different to our normal episodes

where we talk about data science and the technical

aspect of things. In this episode we're going to be

talking about your career and how you can be more

fulfilled, more happy in your career.

Kirill Eremenko: In fact, this episode is going to be helpful for

absolutely anybody regardless of whether you're in

data science or not. You can share it with a friend who

might be struggling in their career. I think this can

actually change people's lives.

Kirill Eremenko: So, what you need to know about Kerri. Kerri helps

people use their stories to land ideal work. And don't

worry if you already have your ideal job. This is still

going to be helpful. It'll help you grow your career and

become even more successful, even more fulfilled.

Kirill Eremenko: Kerri gave one of the talks at DataScienceGO 2019 and

it was one of the most well received, most successful

talks there. People really enjoyed what she had to say.

In fact, at the very start of this episode, Kerri will

share a success story of her own where an attendee at

DataScienceGO last year attended her talk and did the

exercises that she recommended. And then this

attendee emailed Kerri on the day when I recorded this

podcast saying that he finally got the job that he

always wanted in the mix of between artificial

intelligence and robotics. And that is something he's

always wanted but he was not able to get. And just by

applying the exercise that Kerri suggested he was able

to do it.

Kirill Eremenko: So you'll hear that story from Kerri herself in a few

minutes. But in a nutshell listen up because this can

be the podcast that ultimately changes the trajectory

of your career.

Kirill Eremenko: We're going to discuss quite a lot of interesting things.

But most importantly Kerri will give you the steps of

her method. So she actually goes and coaches

companies. Gives workshops on this. And here she's

going to be playing all this information absolutely free.

She's going to be giving us the steps of her career

stories method that'll help you take your career to the

next level.

Kirill Eremenko: In fact, one of these steps I did live on the episode so

you'll hear me performing one of the exercises live and

that gave me insights. Already in a couple of minutes

that gave me insights. That's how powerful this stuff

is.

Kirill Eremenko: So without further ado, get ready for knowledge bombs

that will take your career to the next level. And I bring

to you the founder and creator of the Career Stories

method, Kerri Twigg.

Kirill Eremenko: Welcome back to SuperDataScience podcast

everybody. Super pumped to have you back here on

the show. And we've got a very special guest, Kerri

Twigg calling in from Winnipeg Canada. Kerri, how are

you doing?

Kerri Twigg: Oh, wow. I'm great. How are you doing?

Kirill Eremenko: Doing amazing. Very cool. You said Canada's really

cold right now, right?

Kerri Twigg: Oh, yeah. All winter. Sometimes we call it Winterpeg.

Kirill Eremenko: Winterpeg. What state is Winnipeg in?

Kerri Twigg: Well, we don't have states in Canada. We have

provinces, but Manitoba.

Kirill Eremenko: Manitoba.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, which is just flat. It's just all flat.

Kirill Eremenko: All flat. What do you do there in Manitoba?

Kerri Twigg: In the winter we can skate on our river. I live like two

blocks from a river so I can go ice skating. Sledding,

cross country skiing. So we have all that.

Kerri Twigg: And in the summer it's hot so, you know, camping,

going swimming.

Kirill Eremenko: Oh, wow. Lots of outdoor stuff.

Kerri Twigg: Outdoor stuff, yep.

Kirill Eremenko: Very cool. Well, I'm excited about this podcast because

it's going to be very different to what we normally have

on the show. It's going to be not technical, not data

science, right. This one's going to be career focused.

Kirill Eremenko: First of all, you came to DataScienceGO to present

exactly on this topic. How's your experience with

DataScienceGO?

Kerri Twigg: It was really one of the best conferences I've been to.

Kirill Eremenko: Really?

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. And I was scared because I'm not technical so I

thought, "I don't know if I'll be able to hold a

conversation with these people." The people that I've

met, we are talking to each other like six months later.

I started to feel like maybe you guys are my people.

Kirill Eremenko: That's awesome. Well, this is a chance to speak to

thousands of your people now. This is cool.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: So what made you feel that? How was a conference

with data scientists different to other conferences?

Kerri Twigg: Well, I think so ... because data scientists are into like

you still have that storytelling aspect, right? And

there's an art to it. So I think that you're just like

technical artists. Whereas I might go to like ... I go to

marketing conferences or actuary conferences and

they're like so focused I think on the business side. Or

maybe on the corporate side that there's a different

thing.

Kerri Twigg: And data science is all about failing. So everyone

seems to be really eager to ... I didn't see a lot of

loaded egos, right?

Kirill Eremenko: Uh-huh (affirmative). That's awesome.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, because you have to fail in order to be good at it.

So, yeah, good conversations.

Kirill Eremenko: That's very cool. Well, could you share a bit about

yourself? So what is it exactly that you do? Because

it's such an interesting field helping people with

careers. What approach do you take in this space?

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, so I help people figure out how to use their

stories in order to land ideal work or to grow their

careers. So, I come from theater so I use a lot of

theater and storytelling methods to help people figure

out what's unique about them. And then how to

communicate that.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay, wow. Very concise and I'm already interested.

So, it's not about just like getting a job and an

interview. It's even if you want to continue in your

career this will help you ... How can this help you if

you want to continue in your career?

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, so even if you want to grow your career ... even if

you want to stay sometimes even employed in the

same job that you have, the ability to know what

projects you want to be part of, how you contribute

helping to share with other people how great you are

at doing something, you need that for a career.

Kerri Twigg: If you think people are watching out for you that are

keeping notes and track of all the things that you're

doing, that's a wild thought. So it's everyone's job in

their own career to keep track of what they're up to

and what they want to do next.

Kerri Twigg: And I imagine in your field the job is changing all the

time. So a job that you got at the beginning may

change over time. So then if you're feeling unhappy

knowing what brings you joy in your work, if you know

your story, you're not going to be really stuck about

what to do next.

Kirill Eremenko: Interesting. Okay, got you. I love the thing we talked

about right before the podcast that you said that

someone at DataScienceGO later messaged you about

how they went. Tell us that story again. How did that

all happen?

Kerri Twigg: Okay. All right. So I got this email today which I think

is serendipity. So a guy he said he was working as an

IT director for a long time and then he decided he

wanted to leave that to learn artificial intelligence and

robotics. And he's 42, right.

Kerri Twigg: He heard about your conference. So he heard of

DataScienceGO and went, "Okay, I'm going to go." And

then he said he came to the talk I did. He sat in the

front row and part of my talk I had everyone stand up

... because a big part of telling stories is how you hold

your body.

Kerri Twigg: So I had everyone standing up and doing power poses

and then doing passive poses, and then what

confidence really looks like. And he said he was

mortified but he did it. And then I did a thing where I

said, "Can you introduce yourself to the person beside

you?" And he said he did. So he introduced himself

like I'm a student. And the other person introduced

themselves.

Kerri Twigg: And then I was like, "If you introduced yourself as your

job title or like what you're doing now that's wrong.

There's more interesting ways to introduce yourself."

Kerri Twigg: So I gave three prompts and then he did. And he said

he introduced himself as ... I'm trying to read the

quote but ... "I'm learning all that I can about

computer vision so I can help robots see so they can

make better decisions."

Kirill Eremenko: Wow, different.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, but before that he said, "I'm a student." And the

person he said it to, he said they clapped their hands

and gave him high five. And that this changed how he

perceived his journey and that he's been doing really

cool stuff this whole time. Wasn't sharing it. Was just

calling himself a student. And then he ended it with it

and he's like, "This translated into me officially

changing careers and on January first I became a lead

robotics and AI research engineer."

Kirill Eremenko: Wow.

Kerri Twigg: I know, right.

Kirill Eremenko: Amazing.

Kerri Twigg: That was incredible, yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: Oh, wow. Congratulations. That's awesome.

Kerri Twigg: So I was changing lives. Yeah, but you too, right?

Because you created a space...

Kirill Eremenko: Thank you.

Kerri Twigg: ... created a space where someone who's making a

really scary career decision and doing something that

seems wild to come. They had this wild storytelling

career coach there.

Kirill Eremenko: Wow, that's amazing. I love that. I feel that way often.

Even if I can change one person's life like today, that's

already a huge accomplishment. That's already a huge

like I feel my day's successful. And here you have a

live example of somebody who put the things you

taught them into action, and got a great result out of

it.

Kirill Eremenko: So, yeah, that sounds so great to hear.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. And I don't think it gets taught. So I think we

get taught how to ... I think most of the presentations

at the conference and when people are learning

something new are so technical that they think that

the technical is what's going to get them hired or grow

their career, get them noticed or get them money.

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah.

Kerri Twigg: And then they don't have the storytelling skills so they

can't back it up and nobody knows how incredible

they are in what they're trying to do.

Kirill Eremenko: Can anybody become a storyteller?

Kerri Twigg: Oh, yeah. Well, I think we all are natural storytellers.

Kirill Eremenko: And why do we then limit ourselves? How come we

don't use this natural ability?

Kerri Twigg: So I think that it gets categorized as childish and I

think so often especially in a technical field ... well, it

depends where you work or who you're dealing with ...

but it's so much about the technology and the

programs, and the details. So you think that the

details become more important.

Kerri Twigg: So I think it's that. And it's harder. You have to invest

it. Like everyone can do it but if you never tell stories

... oh, my dog's barking ... then you may not be an

awesome storyteller. And if you aren't great someone

might shut you up and cut you off, and then you don't

share them.

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, and then it becomes like a vicious cycle. You

don't want to share them even more. You get worse at

it and so on.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: I love your video on LinkedIn. You're very active on

LinkedIn. It's very cool to see because, as you mention,

I see more the technical people. Maybe it's I'm just

biased with the audience that the people that I follow.

But it's really cool to see that you're active on LinkedIn

helping people in this space.

Kirill Eremenko: And one of the videos that you shared where you're

just, I think it's in your kitchen and you're giving

people tips on how to tell their career stories better.

It's so authentic. It's really cool, very refreshing to see

that ... I think even one of the tips you gave was just

like be yourself. Talk how you normally talk and act

how you normally would act. Don't try to put on a

more serious or kind of like a mask that people would

expect from you on that interview or that particular

role that you're in.

Kerri Twigg: Well, exactly. And I just feel like the future of work is

changing and the jobs are changing. And the work that

we're doing is messier and requires more collaboration

than ever. So if you're going out and selling yourself as

something else other than you are and you get hired

on a team, then you have to pretend to be that person

for the rest of the time that you work at a certain

company. Or you're working on a project.

Kerri Twigg: Whereas if you just start off by being real, people know

what they're getting. And then you can solve real

problems because you're not busy trying to be perfect

or too stiff. Right?

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah. And you mentioned this phrase selling yourself.

And I've always kind of had this apprehension towards

selling yourself. It's like you are viewing yourself as a

product or as a thing and you need to kind of make

the best pitch, make the best sale.

Kirill Eremenko: To me that already has some kind of like negative

connotation to it. Can you talk a bit more about that?

What does selling yourself mean in today's world?

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, so I get the growth factor of it. But one way it

works is if you can see yourself as a product ... and I

don't really believe you should totally be a product ...

but if you can see yourself as a product then you may

not stop yourself from talking about yourself.

Kerri Twigg: Like kind of having that bird's eye view makes you feel

less self-conscious about talking about yourself. So it's

like one way. But the selling is really that I feel like in

today's world of work the person who has the career ...

so not only do we have to have expertise in our area

and know what we're doing ... but we also need to

know what we're really great at and be able to back

that up with solid evidence usually in a story or an

example.

Kerri Twigg: And that's what selling yourself is. Is being able to

communicate that. So if someone says, "Tell me about

a time you used your communication skills to solve a

problem." You should have an answer and be able to

tell someone how you've done that. Because if

everything else is equal ... so if everyone knows the

same program or if everyone's worked on the same

kind of project ... the only difference you have is the

way that you work. And if you can't communicate that

someone who can gets the opportunity.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay, got you. All right, well, on that note I guess it

would be good to transition to your ... if you could

share some insights. So how do you build a career

story? How do you tell it?

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, so the first way, I think the easiest way to do it

and it comes from screenwriting. So get a pack of

index cards like seven. Or use Trello or something if

you don't want a card. And then just ask yourself,

"Well, what am I the most proud of doing in my

career?" And then whatever story pops into your head

write it down.

Kerri Twigg: And then the next day, ask yourself the same

question, "What am I the most proud of doing in my

career?' And do this for seven days. And if you do this

for seven days by the end you're going to get seven

stories.

Kerri Twigg: And then you'll like this part. Then you compare the

stories and you look at what's similar.

Kirill Eremenko: Sorry, every day you have to answer with a different

story?

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, so every day different story.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. And seven gives your brain a bit of time to come

up with a story you might have forgotten about.

Because it's not even the ones that you're the most ...

like the ones that you share with everyone. But the

one where you're like, "I left work and I'm super proud

of what I did. I made a huge difference that day." Like

those kinds of stories.

Kerri Twigg: Then after seven days, look at them all and identify

what skill you used. Like do you know? Do you have a

proud story?

Kirill Eremenko: For me?

Kerri Twigg: Yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay. The first thing that pops to mind is that we

crossed a million students at SuperDataScience like a

few months ago. Like a million people have signed up

to our courses. I'm sure not everyone has actually

taken the courses or maybe even started the courses.

But out of all of them like a huge portion have been

impacted by the content that we create, the tools that

we discuss, techniques that we show people, and so

on. So I think that's something to be excited about.

That, "Hey, look. We've impacted potentially a million

people." That's really exciting.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, and then in that ... so in your million ... what

did you enjoy doing to get that million people?

Kirill Eremenko: I really enjoy creating courses which have ... [inaudible

00:20:57] like a story behind them. I enjoy creating

courses on technical topics that are complex and

breaking them down. But not just like, "Okay, here's a

glossary of what this tool is about on every single

formula or whatever else is used, the feature of the

tools."

Kirill Eremenko: No, but it's like a story. There's an interesting data set,

there's a challenge. You pretend at the start like I'll

say, "All right you're a data scientists working for

Coca-Cola or IBM and then you need to solve this

problem. Okay, so how are we going to go about it

using this tool?" And then every tutorial ends like on a

cliffhanger and then by the end of it you're like, "Oh,

yes. Not only did I learn the tool but I've solved this

challenge."

Kirill Eremenko: I like creating exciting, engaging content like that.

Kerri Twigg: Okay. I love it. That's good. It's funny because at first

you were like, "Oh, it's a million people." That's

something to be super proud of. But when we dug into

it, you love coming up with the creative idea and

helping people.

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah.

Kerri Twigg: So then if you told me another story tomorrow, we

might find that every story is about ... maybe some of

them are about hitting those big numbers and having

big impact. And that's great. It just means you need to

have a job where you can have big impact.

Kerri Twigg: But the other stuff that I'd be like, well, maybe your

career story is that you're great at helping people,

bringing people together. And really awesome at

making things accessible and fun.

Kerri Twigg: And that if you were to go for any kind of job or to

start a new venture, as long as you got to help people

break things down and make it accessible and fun and

reach big targets, have the freedom to do it, you're

going to be happy in your career.

Kerri Twigg: So, that's how you find your career story. It's like go

back, be honest about what actually makes you

happy. Find the common themes and then that's what

you start to share. So you don't share the like, "I'm a

student," or, "I'm a specialist in this." You say, "I'm

really great at boom-boom-boom, these skills."

Kirill Eremenko: Wow. Okay, so that ties into what you said earlier that

it's incorrect to just say what you're currently doing.

It's much better to say what you're great at.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. Well, because people ... I don't know if anyone

else trains people in what you train people to do ... but

they're drawn...

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, they do.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, but they're drawn to you because of your

personality and the way that you do it. So that's your

strategic advantage. And every time you share your

excitement, every time you share an example of your

work, you're sharing your career story. So you're

selling the unique way that you do your work.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay, got you, yeah. And does that apply across all

fields or across even like in data science, all roles in

data science?

Kerri Twigg: All roles, all fields, yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: Interesting.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. I haven't worked in a field ... Like I can do this

with like CNC operators and then I can do it with like

... I don't know ... vets. Because it's about what the

person enjoys in their work. And then you combine

that with to create your career story is like, "Okay,

now I'm know what I'm good at." And then you figure

out where you do your best work.

Kerri Twigg: So I remember at the conference I was talking to

someone and they were talking about the different way

that people communicate at Facebook than they do ...

I can't remember ... I think it was like Amazon. And

they said at Facebook, at that company, everyone is

trained in nonviolent communication and the way that

you share things has to be like a lot of soft language

around things.

Kerri Twigg: But at Amazon it was like sharp and to the point, and

really technical. So if you're somebody who ... you

might have the same tech skills, but if you are super

direct and you don't want to be soft about something,

you might be better off ... You want to communicate

that so that you are working in a place where you can

even communicate in your most natural way.

Kirill Eremenko: Interesting. So a lot of these things are beneficial not

to just progress your career as in get more

responsibilities, higher pay and so on. But it's actually

about being happy. About finding something that

fulfills you.

Kerri Twigg: Exactly, yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: Very cool. Okay, so first tip was screenwriting. Seven

days, ask your question, "What have I done in my

career that I'm most proud of?" What was tip number

two?

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, so then start sharing them. So I think think

about how you want to share that and if you're trying

to grow your career then you want to think of

whenever ... so tracking them and then sharing them

wherever you can.

Kerri Twigg: So, with a boss on a progress report, like wherever you

can, Share it. It's like that guy wrote and he's like he's

busy being a student and when he started to share the

cool projects that he was on and working on probably

on like LinkedIn and Twitter, just sharing it, then his

reputation grew and everyone knew.

Kerri Twigg: So, part of growing your career is also letting other

people know what you're interested in, what you're

working on. And you're not gloating, and you're not

saying, "Hey, I'm the best ever." You're just going, "I'm

working on this cool thing and I'm proud of what I've

done."

Kirill Eremenko: And you can even share some of like along that share

the technical aspect.

Kerri Twigg: Oh, yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: Like say, "Here's what I've done. And here's the code."

If you can share the code. If it's like not proprietary

code for a company or anything. Just share the code

and say, "Here's what I've done. This is what I've

learned. This is the algorithm I used. These are the

equations. Here's how it works." And maybe someone

else will be inspired by that to follow their passion as

well.

Kirill Eremenko: And also I find writing things down helps me learn

them better.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, it's fantastic. And you can find community that

way, right?

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah.

Kerri Twigg: Like if there's something that someone's working on

and you've given them a tip, they are so grateful and

then they can grow from it. So yeah, sharing it is

another huge thing.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay. So screenwriting and sharing those things. Is

there anything else that you teach people? Or does it

boil down to just repeating these things over and over

again?

Kerri Twigg: Well, I also think that doing some sort of

contemplation in your life is super important. So, I

think it's about you have your career stories, you have

the stories that you're going to tell that you connect

with people and you connect with yourself. And then

you do some sort of contemplation so that you don't

get lost. You don't get so lost in the work that you're

doing that you lose who you are.

Kirill Eremenko: What's an example of contemplation?

Kerri Twigg: Oh, man, well, it could be anything. So, it could be a

mediation practice. It could be a walking mediation

practice. For some people it's journaling or doing

gratitude. It's something where outside of work you do

something that gets you in touch with how you're

feeling and how you're doing in your life.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay, but what's an example of something you could

contemplate about?

Kerri Twigg: Well, it depends. So for contemplation some people will

just concentrate on their breath. And that's just being

aware of how their body is feeling. Other people might

contemplate and just ask themselves questions. Like,

"What am I proud of doing today?"

Kerri Twigg: I'm trying to think of other ... I'm usually not stuck for

words.

Kirill Eremenko: But it's interesting. Actually now it's made me think of

another podcast that I had I think it was in October or

November. At SuperDataScience we have a company

coach who catches up with everybody like basically at

least once a month. And actually we recorded a short

podcast and that was titled Contemplation.

Kirill Eremenko: And what he suggested is when you contemplate is

like you sit down, you pick a topic ... and I've done this

exercise several times. Like for instance you pick a

topic like a rock. And all you have to think is about

rocks. Like what are they used for? Where do they

come from? What do they consist of?

Kirill Eremenko: Like planets are made out of rocks. Rocks can be

different colors. You can break down rocks into sand.

Sand can become glass. Okay, rocks are this and that

and so on. And that way by focusing on that one

specific topic for a very long time, you calm your mind

and you stop this chatter happening in your head.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. And everyone's different. So some people are

like, "I have to move in order to think." And I'm like,

"Hey, go for it." And for other people they're running

and then others can do that just think about a rock.

But I think some sort of whatever it is for you.

Kerri Twigg: Like for me I wake up and I do morning pages. So

before I look at anything, I just write three straight

pages in this notebook.

Kirill Eremenko: Three pages?

Kerri Twigg: Three pages, yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: Wow.

Kerri Twigg: And it could be ... sometimes it's like a short story.

Sometimes I'm just complaining about what I have to

do that day. Sometimes it's a to-do list. Sometimes it's

a blog post. But I dump everything that's on my mind,

figure out what kind of mood I'm in that day before I

let the outside world determine what I'm reacting to.

Kerri Twigg: I'm all online, right?

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah.

Kerri Twigg: So as soon as I turn on my phone, then I'm in

reactionary. I'm in Kerri Twigg perky career coach

mode. So I need to check in with where I'm in.

Kerri Twigg: And then I do another mediation practice, which is

mostly just paying attention to the sounds in a room.

Kirill Eremenko: Interesting, yeah. There's usually a lot of sounds that

we know others consider like background sound stuff.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, and our head is going. We have all this self-talk.

So just listening to the heater and just not judging the

sound, and just labeling it here.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay. Got you. All right. Speaking of writing. You're

writing a book which is coming out January next year.

How do you feel about that?

Kerri Twigg: Well, I wrote it so have you ever written a book?

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, I have. It's such an effort. It's like mammoth,

colossal. I wasn't expecting how much work it would

be when I started.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. So it feels like ... I'm at the stage where I just

gave the first draft of the manuscript to my editor. And

she's going to read it and mark it up, and then send it

to me.

Kerri Twigg: So, right now it feels really good to be ... When I wrote

it I was going to make it ... I feel like I was going to

make it shorter. And then my editor, she asked two

questions. So the first question was, "What does your

book want to be?" And she said I should just stick that

up somewhere. So I did. I was like what does this book

want to be?

Kerri Twigg: And then she was like, "Just share all." Like share

everything. Don't hold back. And I thought that was

great advice. I think so much we just want to horde

our information. And be like so I have enough for my

next book. But there's always ideas.

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, that's true.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. So I feel really excited about it. And I'm eager

because it talks about all of the career stuff. So how to

figure out your career story, how to do a contemplation

practice, how to build a connection with yourself and

other people.

Kerri Twigg: And then a bunch of chapters on the specifics. So how

to do a job interview. How to introduce yourself to

somebody. How to make a great first impression. That

sort of stuff.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay. Would you mind sharing a few insights from

that?

Kerri Twigg: On which one?

Kirill Eremenko: Well, let's say how to introduce yourself to someone.

That's a cool one.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, so there's a few different ways that you can

introduce yourself to someone. Do you want to know

how to greet someone or like what to say to them?

Kirill Eremenko: What to say to them.

Kerri Twigg: What to say to them, okay. So you could say, well it's

like that guy. Right?

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah.

Kerri Twigg: So he introduced himself saying, "I'm a student," the

way that he introduced himself he said, "I'm currently

trying to learn all that I can about this so I can this."

So that's one way. Is I'm currently trying to learn

everything I can about this thing in order to do this

thing.

Kerri Twigg: And so, if you're in transition or if you're working on

something, that's way more interesting than I'm a

student or I work at such-and-such company.

Kerri Twigg: Another way to do it, like if you already know and you

figure it out is just a statement of like, "I help blank to

do blank." So, you know, "I help people use their

stories to land ideal work." And that's going to turn out

way better than if I introduce myself as a career coach,

people think I'm like in a junior high giving people

advice about where to go to university. And I'm like,

"No, I'm working with people who are sad in their jobs

and want to figure it out."

Kerri Twigg: So, yeah, those are two different ways of just like I

help or I'm trying to figure out this. Those are two

different ways, yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: So, for instance, where you have that example of the

person that you read an email from with the help

example. But in terms of the learn example and the

help example would be something like, "I help," I don't

know, "I help the agriculture industry or agricultural

companies improve their food safety ratings with data."

Something like that if you're in agriculture.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. Because if you say I thought at the conference

that ... so some people were saying data science and

some were saying data so no one even knows how to

say your title. Right?

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah.

Kerri Twigg: And then nobody really ... like everyone had a different

idea of what a data scientist is.

Kirill Eremenko: That's a big problem.

Kerri Twigg: That's huge problem.

Kirill Eremenko: It's only been around for 10 years. There's not strict,

rigorous conceptual nomenclature or anything around

this.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, but that means that people that you could help

may not understand what you do. Right?

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah.

Kerri Twigg: So if I own an agricultural company and I'm having

trouble with something. If someone says they're a data

scientist I might be like, "I don't know how that helps

me." But if they said the intro you just did I would go,

"Oh, how do you do that? And where do you do that?

And can you help me?" And then it's a conversation

starter. And people start to understand your work

better rather than just kind of their eyes glazing over.

Right?

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah. But data scientist sounds so cool, right?

Kerri Twigg: Oh, yeah, it does.

Kirill Eremenko: It's the sexiest profession of the 21st century. But

you're right. It's what's better? To be cool or to actually

give the other person enough information to have a

meaningful conversation about careers or build a good

connection.

Kerri Twigg: Well, if you want to be playful you could just be like,

"My title is I'm a data scientist. But this is what I do."

And break it down would be a fine introduction. And

you're just trying to make it easier for the person ... by

whoever you're talking to understand the scope of the

role and the work that you want to do. What you're

trying to do next and where you ideally want to work.

Kirill Eremenko: I just thought of a great example of how to put it into

perspective. Because for the data scientists listening to

this, check this out. If somebody comes up to you at a

dinner party and you ask them, "Hey, what do you

do?" And they say to you, "I'm a doctor." Like you're

going to be like, "What kind of doctor?"

Kerri Twigg: Exactly.

Kirill Eremenko: "Are you a pediatrician? Are you a surgeon? Are you

an eye doctor? Maybe you're a PhD in physics. What

exactly do you mean by doctor?" So it would be much

better if they said, "Hey, I'm a doctor and I help people

with sclerosis to get better through rehabilitation." Or

something like that. Then you're like, "Oh, okay. Now I

know what we can talk about. This if very interesting.

Tell me more. I know somebody who's been through

that. I can understand, appreciate all these things."

Kirill Eremenko: I see what you're saying.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, and the opener is to draw people in. So, it's not

so that you look like a hot shot and that you sound

perfect. It's to introduce yourself in a way that people

understand what you do and then you can have a

meaningful conversation.

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, I'll give you another cool example that I like to

do with Uber drivers. This is a little hobby of mine. So

when I get into an Uber, I'm not going to reach out but

if I feel like you said playful and offer it, I tend to avoid

these conversations because sometimes Uber drivers

... Like the typical questions. Like, "How long have you

been an Uber driver?" Like they've heard it a million

times, right. So what's the point?

Kirill Eremenko: So what I ask them is like firstly I get in the car, I'm

like, "Hey, how are you going? Great. What are you

passionate about?" I skip the whole what do you do

apart from Uber? How long have you been an Uber

driver? Like straight to the interesting stuff. What are

you passionate about? And that opens up very

interesting things.

Kirill Eremenko: Most of the time I get this reaction like, "What? Huh?

Did you just ask me what I'm passionate about it?"

And I recommend trying this out like at a party or at

an event rather than asking somebody, "Hey, what do

you do?" Ask them, "What are you passionate about?"

Completely different level of connection.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. Or like, "What's most meaningful thing you're

working on right now?"

Kirill Eremenko: Great. That's another great one.

Kerri Twigg: Right?

Kirill Eremenko: Not just what are you working on. What's the

meaningful thing you're working on?

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, they're just like, "What?" And they know. So you

can introduce yourself. They can see [inaudible

00:41:15] you be like, "No," and just go right for it.

Those conversations are pretty incredible.

Kerri Twigg: At DataScienceGO, I was at the after party, I think, on

the Saturday night.

Kirill Eremenko: Oh, yeah, that's a good one. I loved that after party. It

was so nice. We're you like the one at the balcony in

the hotel?

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, I was in the balcony at the hotel, yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: Oh, nice.

Kerri Twigg: And this guy came up to me. And I forget what he ...

He was like a PhD in something. And he's like, "You

know, I think you're a shaman." I was like, "What?"

Kirill Eremenko: There was a lot of alcohol.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, but we had this incredible ... Like I remember it

now because he's like, "Do you think you are?" I'm

like, "I don't think I am." And he's like, "The stories

and you have tattoos of animals. I think you might be."

And it was a while because he just got to the heart of

the things that I really care about.

Kerri Twigg: And he saw me and when people see you and when

they see the thing that you think is like meaningful

and cool, it feels good for them. And they're going to

keep talking to you because it feels so good to talk to

somebody who's like real and on the level instead of

somebody who's just trying to give you facts and trying

to sell.

Kerri Twigg: So you're still selling. But I still remember that. And

later I went out and I was like, "What if I am?" Like

how might I move differently if I'm a shaman.

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, that's a cool one. Oh, gosh interesting.

Kerri Twigg: Talk about purpose, yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, such a variety of things happened there. Yeah,

okay. So that's about introducing yourself. What do

you have for somebody who's going for an interview for

example? What kind of tips do you have there?

Kerri Twigg: Oh, man. So, I think two big things that you want to

prep if you're going for a job interview. The first one is

your tell me about yourself. So your “tell me about

yourself” is usually the first question that they ask

you. And in that one you just want to start it with like

... some people start talking personal. Don't go

personal.

Kerri Twigg: So you start it. Your beginning is like a scope

statement. "So I've been working as a career coach for

such-and-such many years. And these are the three

things I'm good at." The three things come from your

cards. Like your seven stories.

Kerri Twigg: And you'll give a little brief thing about what you've

been doing in your career to date. And just not, "I

worked here, I worked here, I worked here." But just

like, "I spent the last 15 years doing this. And

something I'm really proud of," and then give them a

story. And then tell them the reason why you want the

new job. So why you left your old job or why you're

thinking about leaving. And then that you're happy to

be there. So, memorize that one. Not how you say it

but what you're going to say.

Kerri Twigg: The next thing that people do is that ... I don't know

why. Some people that prepping for an interview

means memorizing their resume but it's the opposite.

What you want to do is take that job ad. For every line

on the job ad that tells you what the job is going to be.

Kerri Twigg: So, can you tell me what would be on a typical data

science job ad?

Kirill Eremenko: Oh, that's a problem. Companies, like we said, it's

hard to explain what a data scientist does or who a

data scientist is. The same thing. Companies often

don't know whom they want or what they want. So

they just put a whole list of everything from A to Z that

they would love to have in this role because they just

don't understand exactly who they're looking for.

Kirill Eremenko: So you'll find like, "We want somebody with at least

five years in the field who knows Python, and Tableau,

and R, and SQL, and logistic regression, and XGBoost,

and deep learning and artificial intelligence." It's just a

whole concoction of incredible impossible things to

have together in such a short period of time.

Kerri Twigg: Okay, yeah. So even if it's impossible, the trick in them

is that most people will put the most important stuff at

the very top of the job ad. So the stuff at the bottom

becomes the wish list. But usually the top like, well,

three to six bullet points, they know that you have to

have that.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay.

Kerri Twigg: So if the first one is that you have to know Python, and

the next one is that you have to know logistical

regression, then in front of each bullet point, just

write, "Tell me about a time you used Python. Tell me

about a time you used ... I don't know if I'm saying this

right but ... you used logistical regression."

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, logistic regression.

Kerri Twigg: Logistic regression. "Tell me about your experience

with AI." And then, for each one of those you want to

give a solid example of when you've done it.

Kirill Eremenko: What if you haven't done it? What if you're only

learning and you've already done hands on practice

things but not in a real job scenario?

Kerri Twigg: Then give the example that you used in school or when

you were learning. It still works. You're not saying

you're an expert but you're going, "I have this

exposure."

Kerri Twigg: When I meet with technical recruiters the biggest issue

they have often with technical resumes is they don't

know how experienced somebody is with a program.

So that's something that's on your resume. So you put

the program and then what level. Like how many years

you've been working with it and what level you're at.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, but for the interview you just come up with a

specific example because it's going to tick two boxes.

HR, if they're doing a BDI style interview, you're going

to get all points and...

Kirill Eremenko: What does BDI mean?

Kerri Twigg: Behavioral Descriptive Interview.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay, got you.

Kerri Twigg: So, it's the only scientifically method of assessing a

candidate. And it's still not great science. But if

someone has done something in the past, how they

behaved in the past will predict how they'll do in the

future.

Kerri Twigg: So if you say it like, "Tell me about a time you used

Python?" And then they describe a program and how

they did it, you can tell that's how they're going to use

it in the future, right? So the HR person is checking

the boxes and being like, "Okay, they've done it."

Kerri Twigg: But you're also hopefully going to have the person who

understands the program there. And then they're

imagining you doing the work. And they're like, "Okay,

this person knows what they're doing. They know how

to start a project. They know how to organize it. They

know how to leave the cookie crumbs if it goes off."

Kerri Twigg: And that's the stuff they want to know. Even if you

were like, "I used Python and my first project was

terrible. I failed, this is what I learned." That's even

fine. But just saying like, "I know the program and I

built this thing" doesn't let them know how you use it

or how you work with other people using the program

or working on the project.

Kerri Twigg: If you just say like, "Oh, yeah, I used," can you tell me

what you use Python for?

Kirill Eremenko: Ah, for everything. For AI, for deep learning, for logistic

regression, for customer churn analysis.

Kerri Twigg: Okay, I'm going to use the churn one. So if you said,

"Kerri, tell me about your experience using Python."

And I was like, "Oh, yeah, I did a churn analysis."

You're going to go like, "Well, can you tell me more?"

And I'd be like, "Oh, yeah, it turned out well." You have

no idea how I did it, or how I worked with other people,

or what I'm going to be like to work with.

Kerri Twigg: But if I go, "Yeah, I was using," I'm going to mess up

this experience, "using Python to assess like a churn

analysis and the first thing I did is decided on what we

were going to measure. Set up the whatever task." Like

if I walk you through the steps of it, then you're going

to go, "Oh, she knows how to use it and she's using it

in a way that is in line with how we use it here."

Kirill Eremenko: Okay.

Kerri Twigg: And it gives you a taste of how I work, which is what

they're hiring. If everyone knows the same programs,

the only advantage you kind of have is your

personality and your work style.

Kirill Eremenko: That's a very good point. The question I have though is

what if you're naturally shy? You have like a tendency

to be shy or closed up. It takes you time to open up.

And this is not just like for interviews, this is for

meeting people or as we talked about growing your

career by changing the story you tell to yourself and

the people at work.

Kirill Eremenko: What if like you just lock up in those moments? Do

you have any ideas or tips how to overcome them?

Kerri Twigg: Well, I can give one but I think knowing helps. Like if

you have your clear story, you know how you do it.

And remembering a lot of people hate extroverts. I

think extroverts get seen a lot but they're not loved.

They're too out there, and they're too loud, and too

hoggy. So introverts and quiet are fantastic. Though a

way to get to it is if you hate talking the better you

know your scripts and your story, the less talking

you'll have to do. Because you're going to know which

points to hit right. And it's really just telling a steady

story.

Kerri Twigg: And in a lot of roles if you don't have to be the

communication person between tech and admin, you

can don't have to have incredible communication

skills. And then for practicing, I would just say

practice.

Kerri Twigg: Practice in the mirror. Walk around your house telling

your story. If you're going to do a lot of communication

through video even start to do a video journal through

your phone like just practicing. Because the more you

practice, the better you get at it. Yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: Got you, yeah. So practice will help so you'll know

what to say basically in those moments.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, and find your people. So even if you have two or

three friends that you can talk about and share these

stories with, and you're talking sector stuff with them

even that is something.

Kerri Twigg: I guess the thing that happens is that if you're not

sharing stories and helping people to understand the

way that you work, you can't really complain about

being looked over.

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, I know what you mean. It's your own

responsibility to do.

Kerri Twigg: It's your responsibility. And for a long time I had a not

great ... I had a bunch of low paying art jobs because I

was too scared to share ideas. And then when I started

to share them, it just changed everything, people

understood the difference that I was making. And it

didn't take that much effort because so many people

just won't do it.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay, well, it would be really cool for you to meet

Kristen Kehrer. She was at DataScienceGO in 2018

and her talk was about actually ... I think it was about

telling stories with your data. And it was also focused

really on storytelling. Not necessarily just about career

in the career space but more in the data space.

Kirill Eremenko: But, gosh, I think that you two would have so much

fun.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. I think the other tip that I heard there was about

on resumes the importance of telling stories about

things that you do outside of data science.

Kirill Eremenko: Interesting.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, so if you don't ... I think it was. I can't

remember. John somebody was talking about it one

stage. But he was like, "If you don't have a lot of

experience, he was more likely to know when he

looked at someone's resume, hire them if they talked

about ...

Kirill Eremenko: John Peach.

Kerri Twigg: ... yeah. He would be more likely...

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, I think he was from Amazon.

Kerri Twigg: Amazon, yeah. He said he's more likely to hire

someone if they mention on their resume some other

project even if it was a failure was more interesting

than someone who wasn't trying something. Because

he needed people who weren't afraid to try.

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, that's a very ... I completely agree. Failure is

important and there's nothing wrong with just showing

that. If I see a perfect resume or if a candidate seems

perfect, and when we're hiring to a small team at our

SuperDataScience, I want to find out the dark side. I

want to find out like how you deal with failure. I want

to find out why you failed. Not in the sense like it's bad

to fail but like what's brought you to a part in the

project that's, "Okay, this didn't work out. How did you

assess that? What did you learn from it?" And so, so

yeah, nobody's perfect. And good hiring managers

understand that.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah, absolutely. And that's where having an example

would be stronger than just being like, "Oh, I've never

failed or I messed up something once." Like being able

to go like, "Oh, here's a story of how I failed."

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah.

Kerri Twigg: And I feel like in your sector, don't read the career

advice written for someone who's trying to land a job

at a corporate bank, unless you want to work at a

corporate bank. Because all of that advice is about

being perfect and kind of being fake in order to land.

And I think the opposite goes in your sector.

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah, you're absolutely right. It has to be very

authentic.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: I want to touch one more thing. Well, I started

watching your DataScienceGO talk in the recordings.

And at the start you mentioned that a career story has

three parts. And I'm still thinking about what are

those three parts? Could you share that for us please?

Kerri Twigg: Sure thing. So the story ... and I think this what I said

there ... the story that you tell yourself, the story that

you tell other people and then the story that other

people are telling themselves.

Kirill Eremenko: Oh, that's right. Yep. Story that you tell yourself, the

story you tell other people and the story that other

people are telling themselves about you, right?

Kerri Twigg: Not in even about you. Even about them.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay.

Kerri Twigg: So, if I'm talking to someone and I know that they're

telling themselves a story that they're super important

and don't have time for anything. Then I want to

change my story or mask to be something that's going

to work for them. That's going to resonate with them.

And I also want to give examples that are working.

Kerri Twigg: So we can't just come up with stories that we like.

That highlight our skills and not consider who we're

telling them to.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay. So you've got to have a couple of stories that

you can tell depending on the audience?

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. And do the research. Often who's the

stakeholder in a typical ... I know it's so wide because

it's so vague ... but what do you call a stakeholder in

data science job? Are you a client? Do you call it

stakeholder? Do you say customer? What do you ...

Kirill Eremenko: Stakeholder's fine. I use stakeholder.

Kerri Twigg: Stakeholder is fine. Okay. So if you're using

stakeholder at your company and I come in for an

interview and I haven't done my research, and I don't

know you call them stakeholders. And I keep telling

you a story about how I help customers, and you keep

saying stakeholder and I don't, we're not telling each

other the same story.

Kerri Twigg: So even tiny things like matching their language a

little bit still using some of your own words that can

make a difference. And if you think you run like a

happening, cool company, and someone comes in and

they talk to you like you're running something really

straight, and boring, and safe they're not matching

you. And you're like, it doesn't matter what they say to

you, you guys aren't ... they haven't thought about

who they're telling this story to.

Kirill Eremenko: Yeah. Okay, got you. I think it ties in a bit to that. And

another tip I've heard is that you should aim to

position yourself or talk about the things and show

expertise in the things not for the role that you are in,

but for the role that you want. Even if it's with the

same company. If you are looking for a career

progression and growth then you should already be

interested.

Kirill Eremenko: Like if you're a manager of data science and you're

looking at director of data science you should already

be interested in, "All right, what is a director of data

science normally interested in? How do I deal with

people? How do I deal with other departments in the

company?"

Kirill Eremenko: You know that's not part of your job description now

but that's something that should be on your mind, you

should be talking about that. If you're thinking about

that, it's going to be coming up in conversations with

your colleagues. And even before you get the role,

people are going to be seeing you as a director of data

science.

Kirill Eremenko: For instance let's say there is no director of data

science in the company right now. It's a startup or

something. Well, because everybody sees you as a

director of data science, it'll be so easy for the

executive team to promote you to a director of data

science because you're already thinking that way,

you're talking that way, everybody's seeing you that

way.

Kerri Twigg: Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm a big fan of read scholarly

articles and read what's going on worldwide in your

sector so that you're going wide like you're going to go

... Like you know the big things. So if you talk to

somebody who has hiring power, if you're talking to

like your CEO.

Kerri Twigg: But if you go to your CEO and all you talk about is

"Here's what I accomplished so far in my career." Yeah,

you're right. They'll just keep you there. But if you talk

about, "Hey, this cool thing happened in Finland that

would affect us. Did you hear about it?" They might be

like, "Whoa. You know the bigger," ... like then that

will draw them in and they'll want to hear about the

little things.

Kerri Twigg: So knowing the bigger picture works really well.

Kirill Eremenko: Fantastic. Well, on that note Kerri we're coming slowly

to a close of this podcast. Any final thoughts that you

want to share with our audience to inspire them to

keep pushing ahead?

Kerri Twigg: Oh, man, like you work in ... Well, that's not very

inspiring. You work in this sector that is incredible

and so new that you actually are in the position to

help inform where it goes. And that is so exciting.

Kirill Eremenko: Absolutely.

Kerri Twigg: And it's going to take knowing yourself, understanding

the work, paying attention to other people and sharing

your awesome in order to grow. And everything that

you work to do just brings more credibility, and

interest, and bigger salaries, and more coolness to

your sector.

Kerri Twigg: So you can do it. And you are totally enough. You

don't have to be more than you are. You're enough as

you are.

Kirill Eremenko: Fantastic. Thank you. That's amazing. Amazing share.

I totally back that up. It is very exciting to be in a place

that we can shape where it goes.

Kirill Eremenko: So before I let you go though, I know you said that you

have plenty of clients and you’re not looking for clients

right now, which is very exciting. But nevertheless

could you please share with us where can people find

you, follow you, maybe follow the things that you

share? What are some of the best places online to keep

up to date with what's going on in your space?

Kerri Twigg: So the best place is LinkedIn because I'm active all the

time there. So look me up. Kerri Twigg. Or career-

stories.com is where I blog. But I'm way more

interesting on LinkedIn.

Kirill Eremenko: Nice. That's a really cool domain you got, career-

stories.com.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: That's awesome. Okay, great. So we'll share the links

in the show notes as well. And one final question I

have for you today, what's a book that you could

recommend? Your book's not out yet, of course that

would be a great read if somebody's listening to this is

in 2021. What's your book going to be called?

Kerri Twigg: It's called the Career Stories Method.

Kirill Eremenko: Nice.

Kerri Twigg: Yeah. And then there's some tag line about making

more money or something.

Kirill Eremenko: Nice. Okay. But what's a book that you can

recommend now to people that maybe has impacted

your life?

Kerri Twigg: I love this book called Art and Fear. It's by David

Bayles and Ted Orland. And it's on the perils and

rewards of artmaking. It works for everything. Like it's

really about getting over your fear ... like fear of

yourself, fear of other people, fear of the outside world.

It's written for artists and painters but I think it works

for anybody.

Kirill Eremenko: Fantastic. Art and Fear. Got you.

Kerri Twigg: Art and Fear, yeah.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay. Well, thank you very much, Kerri. Very exciting

to have you on the podcast and also so cool that the

impact you made at DataScienceGO is changing

people's lives. That is extraordinary.

Kerri Twigg: Yep. Me and you. We can do it.

Kirill Eremenko: Okay. All right. Have a good one.

Kerri Twigg: Talk to you later. Thanks for having me.

Kirill Eremenko: So there you have it everybody. Super pumped about

this episode. I hope you had as many laughs as we did

with Kerri. And enjoyed the energy of the show. Kerri

has an amazing energy to her. It was really fantastic

connecting with her.

Kirill Eremenko: My favorite part was probably the exercise that I did

even if a couple of minutes that I did it for, I really got

some valuable insights. I understood that I love

creating these journeys, these stories for people to

discover, to understand, to have that uncertainty, to

have that element of surprise when they're taking

courses. That's what I'm really passionate about.

Something I'm proud of and something I really love

doing in my work.

Kirill Eremenko: And that was just after doing it for a couple of

minutes. Imagine what results you'd get if you do this

for seven days in a row and you just keep asking

yourself that question, "What is it that I've done in my

career that I'm proud o.?"

Kirill Eremenko: So I highly recommend trying out that exercise and

maybe you'll be Kerri's next success story. And if you

are make sure to contact her and let her know about

it.

Kirill Eremenko: And one thing I want to ask of you today is to share

this episode with someone. Doesn't even have to be

someone in data science. Somebody you know who

wants a better career. Somebody who wants more

fulfillment, might be unhappy with their job. This

could change the course of their life and that's why we

do these episodes to inspire people to give them that

spark to move forward and improve their lives and

careers.

Kirill Eremenko: Because the career is ultimately not just about the

money or the title or the responsibility that you have.

All this is important and indeed this method can help

you grow all those things but ultimately a career is

about doing the things that you love, being happy and

being fulfilled.

Kirill Eremenko: So if you know somebody who might be struggling, or

could be, or wants to be more fulfilled in their career,

send them this episode. It's very easy to share. Just

send them the link superdatascience.com/347. And

that is also where you can get the show notes for this

episode. Any materials we mentioned on the show plus

the URLs to Kerri's LinkedIn and other places where

you can connect with her and follow her career, follow

what she's doing for the world. So once again that link

is superdatascience.com/347.

Kirill Eremenko: And finally as mentioned throughout that episode,

Kerri was a speaker at DataScienceGO 2019 so that

gives you a feel for what kind of speakers we invite to

the event. We not only invite data science practitioners

and inspiring data science speakers. We also invite

people who will help you grow your career and take it

to the next level.

Kirill Eremenko: So if you want to learn data science, have fun and

skyrocket your career, then check out DataScienceGO

in Los Angeles on 23rd, 24th, 25th of October.

Kirill Eremenko: The website is datasciencego.com and I look forward to

seeing you there. Until next time, happy analyzing.