A Chat With NickHetcher A NetworkMarketer Who Once

Built An OrganizationOf 300,000 In A Year!

by Willie Crawford, Host “Willie CrawfordTeaches Real Internet Marketing!”

http://BlogTalkRadio.com/WillieCrawford/

Copyright 2008 by Willie Crawford

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Copyright And Legal Notice:

This ebook is a transcript of a recorded radio show hosted by WillieCrawford, founder of The Internet Marketing Inner Circle.

During the call, Willie interviews Nick Hetcher about his variedexperiences which ranged from running his own network marketingcompany, to working in broadcast radio, to having heart attacks whilein his 30’s.

You’ll find Nick’s contact information later in the ebook.

The ebook may NOT be modified in any way.

This ebook is protected under international copyright law, and isCopyright 2008 by Willie Crawford. All trademarked terms are theproperty of their respective holders.

This ebook is provided For Informational Purposes Only. We make noguarantee as to the results you’ll get from using the informationprovided in this ebook or the recording it was derived from. YOUassume all risk and responsibility for the results that you get from usingthis ebook. We make no claims or guarantees, and assume none of therisk inherent in your using this information.

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Willie Crawford’s Interview of Nick Hetcher

Willie Crawford: Hi. This is Willie Crawford and I’d like to welcome you to another

edition of Willie Crawford Teaches Real Internet Marketing. Todaywe have a very exciting show. I’m looking forward to hearing andlearning from our guest, who has done a lot of things that I’dactually like to add to my resume; and also a couple of things that Idon’t care to add to my resume. It’s going to be a fun show.

We’re going to be joined by Nick Hetcher today. If you’re listeningin the chat room, you can type in your questions and commentsover there. We will be happy to entertain your questions andcomments. If you’d like to phone in, that number is (347)215-8784.

As I said, our guest is Mr. Nick Hetcher. Nick is a native ofWisconsin. He is married to Lynn, his beautiful wife of over 25years. They have four children and five awesome grandkids.

Nick attended college in Wisconsin and TV/radio broadcastingschool in Arizona. His radio career began in the late 1970s when hestarted as a disc jockey and voiceover talent. He does over 100character voices and has done some on-camera work as well asvoice. He does done over 5,000 movies, TV, video, radio, Website, and e-mails in his career. He also wrote a joke service forD.J.s.

Nick has extensive experience in sales, sales training and coaching,marketing, and copywriting dating back to when he started sellingcars for his dad in the early 1970s as a teenager.

In the early 1990s, shortly after suffering two heart attacks, hestarted a very successful lead-generation network marketingcompany called Co-op Lead Network. He then went on totrademark the name CheeseHead and work closely with NFL legendReggie White.

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In 2000 he founded one of the first companies to put audio on Websites and in e-mails. After that Nick worked to build a successful,healthy, coffee-based home business with over 3,700 businesspartners across North America.

He also became the top affiliate worldwide, building a team of over300,000 members in another company that was to rival PayPal andeBay. Unfortunately, that company closed its doors two years later.

He wrote an e-book to help network marketers called Over 250Ways to Find New Prospects that anyone can pick up for free atwww.FreeProspectingBible.com. That’s Nick’s Web site.

He loves working from home and has earned monthly incomesexceeding his best yearly income in his past conventional jobs. Heloves his work but places it below family and God on his prioritylist.

Currently, Nick still does voiceovers. You can see his site atwww.Audio4U.net. He does a weekly, zany newscast forhome-based business owners at www.NixTheNews.com. I reallylove his broadcast.

He is very passionate about his primary home-based businessopportunity. It’s a company called Asantae. You can see that atwww.Asantae.org. It’s a company that manufactures health-relatedproducts, especially a flagship one called HeartShot that helps fightthe number one killer in America, which is heart disease.

Nick can be found at www.NixTheNews.com, or you can e-mailhim at Nick@NixTheNews.com.

With that out of the way, let me see if I have Nick on the line yet.

Nick Hetcher: Hello, Willie!

Willie: Hi. It’s great that you could join us.

Nick: Wow. I didn’t recognize myself there.

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Willie: That’s quite an impressive resume you have there. I said I wouldlike to do a lot of things you did. The only one I don’t really caretoo much for is the two heart attacks. I’m starting to live a healthierlifestyle based on that.

Why don’t you give our listeners who aren’t familiar with you alittle more of your background? I know I’ve bumped into you overat Twitter. I then went over, listened to your show, and did fall inlove with it. Prior to that, I hadn’t really done a lot of research onyou, but I am impressed.

Nick: Thank you for having me on your show, Willie. My regular phonegave out right before the call. I had to call in on my cell. The regularphone started to call back in and I hadn’t used my *72 in a while,so I got back on the regular phone. I heard someone beeping in, soI wasn’t able to use that. Hopefully, that won’t bother us here.

Willie: No, it shouldn’t.

Nick: Thanks so much. I really appreciate the invite to the call. I’ll tellyou, I’ve had quite an interesting life. I grew up in northeastWisconsin. I’ve been a Packers fan since the mid-1960s when theywon the Super Bowl the first time.

I got married to my wife 25 years ago. We have four kids, three ofour own grandkids, and two that have married into the family. They’re all in Wisconsin.

I went to college here in Wisconsin. I never finished college, but Ihave a brother who put in 15 years of college with a Yale lawdegree and a philosophy doctorate. So I guess he’s the educatedone.

I did a radio career, though. I was trained in radio also in Arizonaand then worked in radio in the early 1980s. I enjoyed it immensely.I wrote a disc jockey joke service called In the Bag Jokes. We sentit out in little brown paper lunch bags. We put a stamp on there andsent it out. It was kind of a novel idea at the time; I think it wasabout 1982 or 1983; about 25 years ago.

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I got out of that industry for awhile. I’ve been involved, though, insales and marketing for years and years and years, and havefollowed you for years. I was just a dot on the map.

To find you on Twitter and to have you actually talk to me onTwitter was pretty exciting! I thought, “Oh, Willie! This is cool! Hedoesn’t know who I am, but I know who he is!” We met maybe aweek ago.

Willie: Twitter so connects you.

Nick: I got booted off Twitter. I have no idea why.

Willie: I saw that. I actually went over and read some of their rules as towhy they boot people off Twitter. It includes all kinds of sillythings, including the percentage of people that you follow versusthe number that follow you; the percentage of your tweets that arecommercial; and all kinds of stuff. There’s no prohibition againstany of that stuff. I think it’s all random.

Nick: I think so. I started up again and I have one follower now. It’s you– and myself.

Willie: We’ll get you some more followers on Twitter. You’ve had acareer that is admirable. I listened to some of the things you’vedone. I see a platform like Twitter is one that really, really will letyou very quickly leverage yourself. I think I’ve been there less thanthree months and I’ve got 2,000 followers. They do grow fairlyquickly.

You and I are both in sales, so that’s the part that fascinates me,although all your history fascinates me: how well you’ve done insales, particularly the network marketing aspect of it.

Why did you decide to get into sales? A lot of people look at thatand think it’s not glamorous, or it’s hard work. In some people’sminds it has a negative connotation.

Nick: Growing up as a kid in northeast Wisconsin, right across the river

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was the U.P. of Michigan; we’re right on the borderline. We lived inWisconsin but my father had a used car lot back in the 1960s whenI was just a little tyke. He sold cars for a while and then had usedcar lots. I grew up in that business.

Just him working for himself and being his own boss was veryfascinating to me. I think I got the bug when I was probably ten ortwelve years old and did what most young kids do. You got apaper route and did whatever it takes to make a buck as a kid.

My brother and I would make little model cars and line them up inthe bedroom. He’d come to my bedroom and I’d go to hisbedroom and we’d sell model cars. You’d buy them for a dollar,paint them all up nice, and sell them for two dollars. We said, “Hey,we’re like Dad! This is fun.”

Growing up with a dad who was an entrepreneur gave me that flairand I think got me started in sales. I went off to college and wantedto be a Phys Ed teacher. I actually had that as a minor. My majorwas Theatre. I wanted to be an actor. I wanted even to do stand-upand write stand-up comedy, and move down to L.A.

It was the mid-1970s at the time, so I was in the wrong crowd anddoing the wrong things, and came back. Then I moved back out toCalifornia again and ended up in Phoenix. That’s how I got backinto radio which was a lot of fun for me, too.

Through that whole process, Willie, I stayed involved in sales. I justdid all kinds of sales: selling furniture, to selling cars, to sellingabout anything you could think of out there.

Willie: I imagine even when you were in radio, that often they wanted youto do the commercials because of your radio voice.

Nick: Yeah. That was part of the job in radio. They’d put you in a boothfor about three hours, so we’d do a dozen commercials a day forthe radio station. Then you’d evolve from that and start doing TVvoiceovers and radio voiceovers for companies and get paid morefor it. Otherwise, with the radio station, they had you do it just aspart of your job.

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Willie: It’s not quite as glamorous as many would imagine, then; hours justreading a script or whatever? What were some of the other salesjobs you had over the years though?

Nick: When I was young and growing up I sold cars for my dad. I sold atabout eight different car lots across the country; from Green Bay toNorth Hollywood, Phoenix, Milwaukee, and Madison, Wisconsin.

I sold furniture for a while. I sold pots and pans door to door. Thatwas actually from business to business. We’d go from store tostore.

Willie: That’s a little better.

Nick: That lasted about three days.

Willie: I think of the pots and pans salesmen who’ve come to my houseselling the higher-end stuff; the stuff that’s got about 20 differentlayers and is about $5,000 for a set of pots.

Nick: Yeah, this was like 10 pots for $50. It was decent stuff. It wasn’tquite that cheap.

I did telemarketing. I remember the first one I did there was when Ilived in California. It was for Caple’s Carpet Cleaning. I found outthat if I’d call and say, “Hi, this is Nick from Caple’s CarpetCleaner. How are you today?” with a Southern accent, they’d seemto open up.

That’s what worked for me. They were really receptive to theSouthern accent. I don’t know if they just felt an affinity to that orwhat. They were just more open. It worked for me.

Willie: I’ve noticed that people open up to certain accents. I’ve noticed,for example, that a lot of American radio even has a UK or Britishaccent. It seems to resonate with them. I have lots of friends fromthe UK and I’m thinking, “What’s up with this accent?”

Nick: They dig it.

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Willie: I know that a lot of the call centers are in the Midwest where there’ssort of an unusual accent.

Nick: Walter Cronkite and some of the initial TV announcers andnewscasters were from the Midwest. They had the Midwest accent,which I guess is a lack of accent, right?

Willie: It’s lack of accent. I understand that if it was a New York accent ora Deep South accent it would be harder for the rest of the countryto resonate with. That’s why a lot of call centers are there.

When I think of Wisconsin, I remember my days of flying over theGreat Lakes area and places like that. Looking down at all thefrozen ice, I was thinking, “Man! It looks cold down there.”

Nick: Yeah, and that was June.

Willie: No, it was mid-winter. I spent time in Alaska, so I got real used tothe cold. Florida has sort of spoiled me.

Nick: I would guess.

Willie: What was your favorite job then?

Nick: Are you talking about jobs or when I started to work from home? Ilove working from home. That’s what I love.

In terms of jobs, it was radio. It was fun for me. I got to becreative. I would be in the program director’s office all the timebecause he would say, “You can’t say that on the air,” and “Youcan’t do this on the air. I want you to be a time and temp guy.”

“What does that mean?”

“You just give the time and the temp and announce the song. Youdon’t need to be funny guy. You don’t need to do this and that.”However, I couldn’t do that. I guess I had to live on the edge andbe me. I couldn’t do that. So I got fired a couple of times.

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Willie: They throttled your creativity.

Nick: They did. I couldn’t be creative.

Willie: I know you’ve heard the joke a thousand times about having a facefor radio, but you do have that radio voice.

As I was looking at some of what you did, I can see that you are anentrepreneur, a serial entrepreneur. You’re the type of person wholoves working for himself.

I am, too. I like to work when I want to and where I want to. I jokeabout grabbing my laptop and going and sitting on the beach andworking. I do that from time to time and it’s nice.

How did you get introduced to the home-based business world?

Nick: I remember it like it was yesterday. It was in 1979 and it was at MelClayton Ford. I just talked to somebody in Phoenix yesterday andthey said, “I’ve seen some old stickers with that on, but I don’tthink they’re around any longer.”

I was selling cars there. A buddy I sold cars with came up to meone day and said, “Would you like to make $50,000 a year sellingsoap?”

I said, “Yep.” So I went to a home meeting in this guy’s big,beautiful house that he had just built with the proceeds from hisAmway business.

Willie: Okay. He was drawing circles.

Nick: On a board; that’s right. We had all these chairs set up in the livingroom and I thought, “This is really neat.” I was young. That’swhere I cut my teeth on the home-based business industry. It wasat an Amway party in 1979. That was 29 years ago.

Willie: People listen to people talk about network marketing and all kindsof thoughts go through their heads. It is an extremely profitablebusiness and it’s an excellent business model. It’s just that certain

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people have bad experiences or they get lured in thinking that they’llhave to do absolutely no work; that it’ll all be done for them. We allknow that you have to put in a little work. You do get to leverageyourself, but there’s a little work involved.

Nick: I think it’s great leverage, but I think people get the wrongimpression. They hear the big stories of so-and-so making this kindof money and they think, “I can get in and I can do that if that guycan do that!”

It’s the business cycle where at first they’re all excited and theythink they’re going to set the world on fire. Then they don’t doanything and they wonder why they’re not going anywhere. I usedto get so frustrated, Willie, with that type of person.

I’m a worker. I just get in there, roll up my sleeves, and get towork. My problem, in the past, has been that I’d jump around andtry to do two, three, four, or five at once.

I had that type-A personality, maybe a little A.D.D. Although I tooka test online that said I don’t have it; but I was doing about fourother things as I was taking that test! I’m kidding.

That was so frustrating for me when I would first start. I’d try totalk to people and say, “You’ve got to get into this! It’s just thegreatest thing in the world.” Then when they’d get in because Italked them into it, they’d talk themselves out of it really quickly.

Willie: Or they’d wait for you to do the work for them.

Nick: Yeah. They’d say, “How come I’m not making any money, Nick?Why are you doing…?”

“Well, you’ve got to work.”

“What?!”

Willie: I actually had someone call me on the phone yesterday wanting toget started in Internet marketing; not the network marketing side ofthings. They asked me for a recommendation and I asked what they

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wanted to do. They said, “I just want to set up a Web site, pay forit, and then make sales.”

I said, “You can’t just set up a Web site and make sales.”

They said, “I’ve read in four or five places that you can! I’ve beentold by people that you can.”

I said, “Those people take your money, sell you a Web site, andyou make no sales.”

They said, “Yeah, I’ve done that a couple of times.”

I said, “So why do you keep doing it?”

My degree is in economics, and I’ve been taught that if somethingwas really, really, really easy and there was lots and lots and lots ofmoney in it, the world would eventually notice and people in regularjobs would quit those regular jobs and go do it. There’s a little bitmore to it than that.

I have a friend who’s doing $100,000 a month in networkmarketing, so I know it’s doable. It takes knowing what you’redoing. That’s part of why I really like what you’re doing and whatyou’ve accomplished thus far.

Why don’t we talk about your radio first though? How do you likeworking in radio? Where did you start? What did you do? Youmentioned some of it: the voiceovers, the commercials, sitting forhours in a room. How did you get started?

Nick: I had thought about it before because a few people had said, “Youshould go into radio. You should try that.” This was in the mid1970s or so.

I’ll regress here just a little bit. We were talking before about goingback out to California; and I ended up in Phoenix. I had somebuddies there and I loved it. I was working, doing that Amwaymeeting, and selling cars.

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Then I heard about a radio school there that was going to start. Iprobably heard about it on the radio. There were two classes, daysand nights. I worked days and went there nights. It was probably30-40 people per class. I really loved it. I went out and said, “I’mgoing to get work.”

I got work at two radio stations locally, part time, while I was goingto school and working a job. No one else in the whole class got anyjob at all in radio and I thought, “Why aren’t they going out andtrying to find work? We’re going to school! Why would you waituntil you get out of school to work in radio?”

Here I was working two – not that I’m patting myself on the back –because I was a type-A personality.

Willie: Yeah, I’ve done that, too.

Nick: I was digging it. However, to break into the major market – likePhoenix – when you’ve just gotten out of school is tough; and Iwas a young pup at the time.

I was moving back to Wisconsin to start here because I’m fromWisconsin. The day we’re moving back I get a call from a radiostation I wanted to work at in Phoenix. It’s the day I’m moving! Isaid, “Sorry, man, I’m moving. We’re headed back to Wisconsin.Why didn’t you call me a month ago?”

So I moved back. My first job was in Beloit, in southernWisconsin. I got hired on a Friday and they called me on Mondayand said, “Sorry. Don’t show up for your first day of work. Ourpart-timer wants to go full time so we’re going to keep him.”

That was my indoctrination to full-time radio in Wisconsin. Then Igot hired a week or two later at a place and worked there fortwo-and-a-half years. Then I went to the Madison market andworked there for a while. Then I got bored.

I moved on and got back into sales and out of radio. It kind ofevolved from then to the year 2000. I had this idea of putting audioon Web sites. I called a buddy of mine and said, “What about

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putting audio on Web sites?” There was very, very little – if any –at the time.

I talked to another guy I had met at the time who was veryencouraging – Mike Enlow. I don’t know if you know Mike.

Willie: I sure do.

Nick: He’s kind of like the granddaddy, right? He’s been out of the scenefor a while. We became very good friends.

We actually just communicated a couple of weeks back; it was thefirst time in years. He hit a truck head-on with a motorcycle a whileback. It was a semi. He was out of the picture for a while. I wish he’d come back.

He was very encouraging. I got back and we started a companycalled Talking Sites and Talking E-mail. We put out thesecustomized e-mail things. I did some character voices and thingslike that. So we’d do them up and then put them on e-mail.

Before this, I said to one of my techs, “I want to put this on e-mailso when they open their e-mail they’ll hear the audio.”

He said, “You can’t do it.” He was a really sharp guy and he said,“You can. I know you can. I see it. Just believe me. I know youcan.”

He did it. He made it happen. It worked for a while and then afterabout 2003, we went defunct. We just didn’t have the funding andenough to make it go. We kept going for a couple of years.

Willie: I was thinking maybe it was a bandwidth issue or something likethat.

Nick: No, that wasn’t the issue. I forget what it was. I’m not a technicalperson; I’m a hack. I’m the guy with too many ideas.

Willie: You’re a lot like me in a lot of ways. I sort of wondered about whatage you were because you told me that you have had two heart

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attacks. Those were actually when you were fairly young, weren’tthey?

Nick: Yes. I was 33. I’ve had two cataracts since then. Last year inJanuary, I had emergency detached retina surgery.

So here I am at 33. I have a young family. I thought I was in reallygood shape. I was going to get in the fire department locally innortheast Wisconsin. Did you want to hear this? Do you have time?

Willie: I do. Yeah, we have time.

Nick: I wanted to get in the fire department. I wanted to give back for allthe stuff I think I took from people. I was just kind of a dirtball fora while. I wanted to give back.

Also, what was cool about it was that you’d work 24 hours andyou’d have 48 hours off. As an entrepreneur, that struck a chord. Isaid, “This is cool. I can have all this free time, plus make a livingand serve in the community.”

I passed the written test and did well on that. I thought, “Okay.This is going to rock. I’m in, man.” If you did extra sit-ups andpushups, you would get extra points on the physical.

Two days before the physical, I had a heart attack. It was at nightand I didn’t know what it was. My wife was out grocery shoppingand the kids were in bed. It was about 8:00 or 9:00 at night. Ithought, “What is going on? This is killing me.” So I started doingextra sit-ups and pushups – to try to release that – and jumpingjacks.

We were in this little, tiny apartment. It was a really small, littleapartment. So I go to bed and I leave her a note: “Honey. It feelslike my heart is jumping out of my chest. I went to sleep. Pleasepray for me.”

She comes, wakes me, and says, “How are you doing?”

“I’m okay.” I was okay. Then.

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I wake up and go to work in a factory the next day. I got out ofsales because I wanted to slow my life down and have less stress.So I go in and it starts happening again at about 9:00 in themorning, a couple of hours after I got in.

I went to my boss, who was a buddy, and he said, “Just take iteasy for a while.”

Finally I said, “I’ve got to go home.” So I go home and I havethese cut-off jeans on with holes in them. I said to my wife, “I’mfeeling really bad. I think I’m having a heart attack. I’m going to thehospital.”

“Good, let’s go.”

I said, “No, no. no. I’m going to drive myself.” I don’t know whatmy macho thing was.

So I drive out and she follows me afterwards. I get out there andanother buddy of mine is the E.R. doc. He does the EKG and says,“Man, this heart attack showing up here is what you had last night.”Apparently, it takes four hours to show up. So this is my secondone.

The morphine did not help the pain. I said, “You’ve got to give mesomething.”

He said, “I can’t until I do the EKG.”

I’m laughing and joking through this, but it’s killing me. It feels likeI’m in this big body press. Finally they give me nitro and the painsubsides. They take me in an ambulance to Green Bay, 60 milesaway. I go there and after taking some tests, the nurse comes in andsays, “You’ve been taking drugs.”

I said, “No.”

She said, “Yes, you have. Don’t lie to me.”

I said, “No, I haven’t.”

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“It’s showing up in your blood work.”

I said, “I quit those a couple of years ago. I haven’t touchedanything. I’m clean.”

She came back a little while later and said, “Oh, they gave youmorphine at Marinette, eh?”

“Yeah? Hello?”

That night in the hospital, I think I might have had a third attack. Inever found out if I did or not, but I went through a lot of painagain and they had to give me something. Since then it’s beenbetter.

Willie: You did something that most people should not do: have a heartattack and just say, “I think I’ll lie down.”

Nick: Yeah, I know. I had no clue it was a heart attack. It was a very,very ignorant thing to do.

Willie: After the heart attack, did you change your lifestyle? Did you go tosomething less stressful? Did they figure out what caused it?

Nick: It was an artery spasm. They thought it might have been too muchcoffee. The day before, we were coming back from a trip down inMadison in southern Wisconsin, seeing friends. I had about eightcups of coffee – big cups – at the gas stations. Normally I drink acup or two a day. I was flying for a day. They think that’s whatprobably spurred it on.

Did I change my lifestyle? When I was in the hospital my wifewould drive down there and come to visit every day. I said, “I’vegot this idea. I want to start a network marketing company and putteasers on envelopes.”

She said, “You’re nuts! You just had a heart attack!”

I met Tom “Big Al” Schreiter. He’s a funny guy. He became a

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really good friend and a mentor. I started that company in 1990,right after that. So my lifestyle didn’t change; it got a little morestressful.

However, I enjoyed that immensely. We did pretty well. Thecompany fizzled out after about 18 months. I ended up starting alead-generation company after that. That’s another story.

Willie: What was the first company selling? Was that the coffee company?

Nick: No. We sold teasers to envelopes to get people to open theenvelope. We would sell them to network marketers on a networkmarketing plan. It would say something like, “Make more moneythan your spouse can spend.” We’d turn that into a headline. I’dseen it used years later and thought, “That’s kind of cool.”

Willie: After 18 months it didn’t really take off? So you started the secondone which was lead generation?

Nick: Yeah. It was a lead-generation company. I started it with a partner.We just had a partner break-up after two-and-a-half years. It’s bestif I don’t go into that.

We did really well. I ended up losing, really taking a bath. Youmove on, you forgive, and you forget. That was a lead-generationcompany and we were very successful with it the first couple ofyears.

Willie: You have CheeseHead. What exactly is that all about?

Nick: In 1995 or 1996, I was taking a shower one day. I don’t knowabout you, but I think a lot in the shower for some reason. Ideascome to me.

The Packers were doing really well. You see those foam headseverywhere. I didn’t have those. I’m thinking, “I wonder if thename CheeseHead is trademarked?”

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I called up the Secretary of State and it wasn’t! I said, “Holy cow!I’m going to trademark that puppy.” I did, and then created this linethat we called “Cheese-Wear.” It was sweats, hats, and scarves. Itwas a lot of fun.

We happened to be going to the same church Reggie White was.The pastor was an entrepreneur, too; a marketer guy. He says, “Iknow Reggie really well because he goes to church here. I want tointroduce you to him.”

I’m sitting in the office with him and Reggie says, “Hey, how areyou doing, man?” He’s just so impressive. His thighs are about thesize of my chest.

I’m thinking, “Holy cow. This guy is a legend!” I’m sitting two feetaway from him. He has a beautiful wife. I said, “Reggie, I’ve gotthis idea with tee shirts.”

He says, “I’ve got some ideas, too,” and he gave me some ideas.

I said, “Would you want to be the MVC?” That was the first yearBrett Favre was MVP. I said, “Most Valuable CheeseHead!”

He laughs and says, “Yeah! Let’s do it!” So we did the TVinterviews.

I said, “You can play it straight or have fun.” He had fun. He had agreat sense of humor. It was a blast. He was an incredible man andhis wife was his business partner. She was just incredible. It wasfun to work with them.

I created this guy called “Cheese Man” and I had this cheese suitmade. It was a big, foam suit with a big wedge so I looked like thismuscle man. I would talk like this.

I would get on interviews with disc jockeys across the country’smorning shows. It started out locally. They’d say, “Cheese Man!”

“Yes, faster than an aging brie; able to leap tall cows with a lot ofhelp; stronger than warm limburger! Is it a curd? A pasteurizedspread? No, it’s Cheese Man. It’s not easy being Cheese Man.

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Actually it’s low-fat Cheese Man.

“You might be a CheeseHead if you think cow-chip throwing is anOlympic sport. You might be a CheeseHead if you’ve got a deerstand in your Christmas tree.”

Then he’d go on. He had this nephew “Cheese Curd” that wouldget on and talk. It took off with these disc jockeys. Then I’d calland I’d be on these morning shows, but it was promoting theproduct.

Then they started to call from all over the country. I thought, “We’ve got to come up with something else. I’ve got it! AntiCheese-Wear!” So we did Anti Cheese-Wear for the Dallas areaand San Francisco.

We had a blast with that. We ended up selling the trademark andthe suit, which I think is sitting in a closet to this day at one of thetwo printing companies that did the printing for us. It was fun.

Willie: I thought you were going to say you sold to some major cheesemanufacturer.

Nick: Well, I wasn’t hanging around with guys like you to give me thosekinds of ideas.

Willie: We’ve already mentioned your Talking E-mails. You had TalkingSites, too?

Nick: It was basically at the same time as the Talking E-mails. We didaudio for Web sites.

Willie: Was that around 2002?

Nick: Yeah. I’m back doing some of that now for some Web sites; forWeb masters and for some of their people. I do it primarilybecause it keeps me in tune and it’s fun. I’ve got an in-housestudio, so I take advantage of that.

Willie: When you say it keeps you in tune, I think I was reading in your bio

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that you do over 100 character voices?

Nick: Something like that.

Willie: Wow! You’ve never thought about stand-up comedy on stage, likeRich Little?

Nick: Yeah, I have. I’ve wanted to be a stand-up for 30 years. I’vewritten comedy for a guy named Scott Wood and for disc jockeys.I’ve got a routine and I keep writing stuff, but I’ve never really goneon. I played a little bit with it in college, but it’s still a dream.

Willie: I live in northwest Florida. We have a local comedy club and wehave HBO-quality comedians there. I watched them give apresentation and at the end of the presentation they said, “And bythe way, I have my CDs, DVDs, tee shirts,” or other little trinkets. Itdoesn’t appear to be that lucrative if they’re hauling around casesof CDs with them.

Nick: It’s really tough. It’s a really tough market. It’s something I wouldn’t want to do. I keep working on my routine and keep writing stuff.I’ve got books and books and books of little bits and routines andthings like that. Who knows if I’ll ever do it? It’s a tough go. Theguys who make it really work hard at it.

Willie: Yeah, I can imagine they do. Besides, you’re an entrepreneur. Let’stalk about network marketing if you would.

I am actually involved with two different network marketingcompanies, but I’m known better for Internet marketing. A lot of ussort of differentiate them, but a lot of affiliate marketing - where it’stwo tiers – is not very different. It’s just a frame of mind and itdepends on who you talk to. How did you get started, though, innetwork marketing?

Nick: I got going back in 1979 with the guys that asked me aboutAmway. I didn’t really do much for several years after that. Istarted maybe in the mid-1980s or so, to play around a little bit. Istarted to learn it and thought, “This makes sense.”

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I learned from Dr. Jerald McCarthy. I’ve been in his groups beforeand then he finally joined me in the coffee business a few years ago,which was really an honor.

What I had learned really struck a chord back then. It was this:work once – sell the product or service one time and collectresidual income month after month from that one-time sale. That’sthe first time I’d of heard residual income. I thought, “Wow. Thatmakes sense.”

Willie: You do affiliate marketing, too, in regular affiliate products, don’tyou?

Nick: I do a little bit, but I’m not anywhere near the scale you are.

Willie: What I’ve noticed is that lately I’m moving more towards sellingitems that are consumables or that offer residual income, whether it’s a service such as Web hosting or auto responders or something.For example, I’m helping with a product that is a video submissionservice primarily. Somebody uses it month after month after month.

It makes sense to me to build a business where the customercontinues to use it. In the process you still go out and get newcustomers; but your survival doesn’t depend on you having toconstantly chase after new customers.

Nick: It’s brilliant business. Free enterprise in its purest form is what Ithink network marketing is. I knew the Internet marketers weregoing to gravitate over and take over the network marketing scene.

I’m seeing it happen now with guys like you that are pros on theInternet. I’m learning. I’m seeing young kids come in and startmaking these huge numbers because they get out there and there’s alot of people.

It’s amazing how you can have five, ten, twenty, or thirty peopleand get maybe five people out of that and turn it into a fabulous,fabulous monthly income that can go on for years and years if youpick the right horse.

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Willie: What I see us Internet marketers do is trying to automate too much;trying to take the whole human side out of it, though. We just wantto set up a Web site and let that Web site funnel through thousandsof people and find just the right people; and want to be largelyhands off.

I see network marketing as going through lots of people, but you’refinding those leaders and it is still a relationship business; but thenso is Internet marketing actually.

My best customers are people who feel free to pick up the phoneand give me a call and we know each other; yet they spendthousands of dollars with me every year. We can say that it’s allautomation and push button, but a lot of it is high touch. I like thatactually.

Nick: Yeah. High tech, high touch. I think people did try to do what youwere saying for the last 10 years – some of the Internet marketerswith the systems – and they didn’t want that high touch; at least theones that I had dealt with. It wasn’t working for them. Maybe theywould build up a quick check and make money for the first year,but no one could really duplicate that.

Now I think they’re combining it. What I’m seeing it do is sort outthe cream and the cream rises. Then the people come in and theycan do their specialty. If they’re good at Internet marketing, great; ifthey’re good at home parties, let them do that! Whatever they’regood at.

You brought up a big key which is consumable products. I thinkthat is just a golden key, Willie, because they keep buying that. Isaw it happen with my coffee business that I had been in for fouryears.

We had some issues with the company and they changed the compplan – it drove me nuts – about six times in four years. Then acouple of leaders, the president, and I started another companyfrom that.

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Through all that process, a lot of the distributors had left, butpeople kept buying the product because they fell in love with it.They kept ordering it and ordering it.

They were on auto-ship so it came to them every month and theyspent whatever it was - $50, $100, or $200 depending on thecompany – on that product every month. It was just a little goldengoose. Actually, that particular one still keeps coming in.

Willie: Excellent. I’ve looked at literally hundreds of network marketingcompanies and I teach people, “You look for something that firstof all has a really good product.” I teach people a lot about thingsto look for.

I’m in love with a lot of companies. I do have to be in love with theproduct first in order to feel comfortable selling it. I don’t seeanything wrong with network marketing as a model. I think it’s agreat model. It’s easier to get into that Internet marketing for manypeople who want to start online businesses. It’s easier for them todo the business.

Nick: Yeah, it would seem to be.

Willie: You built this organization at one time that was about 300,000members in a year’s time. You must have employed someautomation there. How did you do that?

Nick: A guy I knew called me and said, “We’re going to be starting thisthing here. We’ve done some similar stuff.” I didn’t know himreally well, but I had known him before from something else. I don’t even recall what it was.

He said, “We’re going to rival PayPal and eBay. We’re going tocome up with a product that’s similar to PayPal’s way of takingmoney in exchange for products.”

I said, “That makes sense.”

“We’ve got this guru guy that does really well. He’s coming fromnorthern California down to southern here and he’s going to move

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in with us. We’ve got the infrastructure in place and here’s what we’ve done before.”

I said, “This makes a lot of sense.” A lot of times it’s first mover’sadvantage. It’s getting in early if you’ve got the right management,the right product, the right compensation plan, and the moneybehind it. I thought they did.

I was a little naïve because it turned out that it didn’t happen.However, I got hold of some of the bigger guys who could makethings happen, and some of them you know and probably haveworked with in the Internet industry. They just jumped all over it.

I brought in about 200 people, but about 12 of them I brought inreally went after it. In my book, that’s one of the things I said: “Goafter the big players.”

I started to get to know them through a couple of the magazinesway back in the day, like Keith Laggos’ Money Maker’s Monthly. I’d write to these guys or e-mail them, get to know the writers, andbuild a relationship. That worked out really well over the yearsbecause we got to do some joint ventures together.

They’re not necessarily joint ventures. In the day, it was really that I’d join them in a networking business or they’d join me, so it waskind of like a modern-day Internet joint venture. It worked out reallywell.

Willie: So these guys were all writing articles for these magazines?

Nick: Right. They were like the Willie Crawfords, the Mike G’s, or theMark Joyners of the day of network marketing.

Willie: That makes perfect sense. You mentioned your book. Are youtalking about Over 250 Ways to Find New Prospects?

Nick: Yes.

Willie: Okay. We should tell the listeners how to get that. It’s an e-book,right?

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Nick: Yes.

Willie: Where is that?

Nick: It’s at www.FreeProspectingBible.com. It’s free.

Willie: It’s called Over 250 Ways to Find New Prospects. Would theseways work for Internet marketers as well as network marketers? Oris it primarily focused on the network marketing side of it?

Nick: Initially, it was for my group. Then I thought, “Well, gee, I’ll makethis available to everybody to build that golden list.” They will goon the list.

They can opt out. If there are any strings attached, those are thestrings. I keep in touch with them that way and get them moreinformation. It was primarily written for the network marketers, butInternet marketers can probably get a lot out of there.

A lot of the Internet and network marketers are integrating thingstogether. The Web 2.0 and social networking is becoming really bigin the network marketing industry.

Willie: Right. We mentioned Twitter earlier. You mentioned you had twofollowers. During the show we pushed that up to 17.

Nick: Whoa! Way to go! Thank you.

Some of the Internet marketers nowadays don’t think that there isany value anymore in the old-school methods for building anetwork marketing business.

I’m really all over the new school stuff. I love it. We talk about thatin the book, and we talk about old school. We talk about all kindsof stuff. You can imagine: 250 different ways.

However, there are old-school things that you need to do if you’rea network marketer or if you’re a businessperson. I’ll give you anexample. Have some sizzle cards made, some drop cards. It’s

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more than a business card; the card that says, “Hey, look at me!You’ve got to check this out!”

Drop those around town at gas pumps, newsstands, in the mall, orwherever you are. You’d better be doing that. You’re not justgetting your name, Web site, or 800 number out, you’re writing offevery mile you’re driving around town. You’re doing businesseverywhere, you’re prospecting everywhere. That’s old school.

You can pick up local distributors – local people – to work withwho can learn new-school stuff, who might already knownew-school stuff and who know a lot of contacts locally.

If you put 10,000 or 15,000 miles a year on your car locally, andyou’re writing off every mile because you’re passing out thosecards everywhere, that’s a business expense. I think the IRS says it’s something like 51 cents right now that you can write off for everymile. That needs to be done.

Another one I just wrote an article about last week was thebillboards in restaurants. We look at those and say, “Look at allthose cards on there.” Yes, put your card up there, of course, butbring a notebook and start writing down a few of the e-mailaddresses and phone numbers of the people who put cards upthere.

Those are like-minded-type people; they’re entrepreneurs. Theymight be a local insurance agent, painter, or whatever, but they’vegot a business mind. They’re out there trying to make a buck andthey need a better way.

They can always use a way to write off more of their money, theirgas mileage, and things like that. They can use an extra income inthis day and age with selling your juice, your pills and potions,travel business, or whatever.

Rather than taking their cards down – that’s not really fair becausethey want those up – you grab their information, take it with you,and give them a call. That’s another old-school method. As you’redriving around town it’s just something you’re doing anyway. It’sno extra time really spent; it’s a few minutes here and there.

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Willie: As I look at how I run my Internet marketing business, it’sgravitated more towards old school. I hosted local gatherings whereI’d just go out on a forum or something and post, “Hey, I’mhaving a gathering in my hometown this weekend. You guys areinvited.”

I make it so they show up at a restaurant and everybody pays theirown expenses. What I’ve done is just pulled together a group of 20or 30 people. It’s a perfect setting where somebody couldexchange what they’re doing and exchange business cards. I’musing a lot of that.

I’m also getting very active in local civic groups. There’s a localGlazer-Kennedy group and I’m in the Chamber of Commerce.Even though I’m an Internet marketer, I’m going to a lot of thesebusinesses.

What I’m also discovering is that a lot of these people who showup at these groups are into network marketing. When they hear thatI’m on the Internet, their eyes sort of light up. It’s sort of fun.

I got introduced at the local Glazer-Kennedy chapter’s inauguralmeeting as the “Internet guy” and was given more time thananybody else on the schedule. It was just sort of neat.

Nick: I like that.

Willie: A lot of those guys were into network marketing and they talkedabout their businesses. I need to go and get a copy of your e-bookbecause I’m sure there are techniques in there that I can and shouldbe using, although I’m a very integrated-type marketer.

I’m as likely as not to take the recording from this show, have ittranscribed, and turn that into an e-book. The search engines can ofcourse read the text in the e-book whereas they can’t read the audiofrom us talking. All of a sudden, all of our words are in the searchengines for anybody searching for any of those terms to find us.

You mentioned article marketing. Do you write a lot of articles?

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Nick: I don’t. I used to write a fair amount years and years ago, but Istarted to again just recently. The more I read about it, the more itmakes sense. It worked in the past. I write a few.

Willie: What you’re doing is basically showcasing your expertise. When Ilook at your bio, I’m just really impressed with a lot of things you’ve done.

We’ve got about eight minutes to go. You mentioned to me thatyou’re very passionate about heart health and the fact that it is thenumber one killer in America right now.

Every time I look at that statistic I look at things that are wrong withmy family such as diabetes; practically all of us are overweight. Iknow it’s a serious problem. One of the products that you marketis a supplement for heart health, right?

Nick: Yes. You’re right. It’s the number one killer in America. It kills2,500 people every day. That’s more than the next six killerscombined. After having two heart attacks and after hitting the big5-0, which I understand you’re getting close to….

Willie: I’ll hit it in March.

Nick: It really hit home to me. I’m on a crusade with Dr. Dwight Lundellwho was a world-renown heart surgeon.

Willie: I’ve seen the video where he’s talking about the number ofoperations he’s done and actually held all these human hearts in hishand. I thought, “Wow!”

Nick: Five thousand. Now he’s going to be doing his first Ironmancompetition in November.

Willie: Wow.

Nick: Yeah. He’s been retired for two years. He’s been on a quest and he’s got a book called The Cure for Heart Disease. He’s been on aquest to do that; to help prevent it.

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He’s found out that the number one cause is not cholesterol. Lessthan 50% of the people who have heart attacks and die had badcholesterol. It’s inflammation. That’s what he addresses. A lot ofserious diseases are caused by inflammation.

A lot of this stuff is new to me. I am just very passionate about thisand I’ve put pretty much everything down to pursue this in a bigway. For me now, it’s not just helping people earn an extra income,retire early, or whatever – all the stuff we’ve talked about. If I canhelp people live a healthier lifestyle to live longer than maybe theywould otherwise – if they’re not eating right, not exercising, and notgetting the right supplementation – I’m all for that.

I’ve got this quest in front of me and feel like I’m on a crusade. It’smade me feel young – not just the product – but my zeal forhelping people like this. I feel like it’s a really, really, really goodcause. It’s got me excited.

Willie: I can understand that. Did you say it was 150,000 day that die fromheart disease?

Nick: No, 2,500 every day in America.

Willie: That’s huge, though. That in itself is huge. I’m retired military. I canremember being in the military as a fairly young officer and lookingat some of the older guys who were showing signs of aging andputting on weight, and just thinking, “Those guys aren’t taking careof themselves.”

It was shocking for me to imagine someday being 50. I wasthinking, “Wow. I’m going to be that old someday.” Today Irealize you’re only as old as you feel. It is all about taking care ofyour body, eating the right diet, and things like that.

Doctors do jump on that cholesterol bit, yet when you look atsomething like the human brain which is largely cholesterol,cholesterol in itself is not bad.

Nick: I’m not a doctor and will never claim to be. They have other

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products they’ll introduce with this company, but this will be theirflagship product and is now. I’m fairly new with the company. Is itokay to give my Web site out?

Willie: Yeah, it is. You can just give a kickback on each person who mightsign up.

Nick: Oh, yeah.

Willie: Please do give it out.

Nick: It’s www.HottestTrend.com. I just put that page up.

Willie: We’re down to about three minutes to go. I do want to encouragepeople to follow you and what you’re doing.

One of the people in the chat room is Kelvin Brown, a person whohas hung with me for a long time. We’ve been to seminars andconferences together. He was the one who just mentioned that youwere up to 17 followers over on Twitter.

I do want to encourage people to go and check out your Web siteand listen to your radio show. That is funny. Do you make up thatstuff?

Nick: Yeah, most of it. I have one other writer, too. He’s a comic namedDarren Marlar at www.DarrenMarlar.com.

The site we’re talking about is at www.NixTheNews.com.

Willie: For people listening to the show who want to go check you out, Icertainly encourage them to go to the site and check all that out. Ifsomebody listened to you and they’re interested in having you ontheir show or doing an interview – maybe they’re a networkmarketer working on a little book or something – how would theyget in touch with you? What’s the best way?

Nick: Through www.NixTheNews.com. There are links there. Or theycan get a hold of me at Nick@NixTheNews.com. Those areprobably the best ways.

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Willie: What I want to do as a wrapping-up thing is to encourage thelisteners who are on the site first of all to bookmark my show as afavorite because it helps me in my ratings. We know about ratings.

I do want to encourage you to tell all your friends about the show,too. This episode is being recorded, so if you came in late, in aboutfive minutes the software will have turned it into an MP3 which youcan listen to right from the site.

You can also download it, burn it to a CD, and listen to it in yourcar. You can listen to Nick and me over and over and over again.

Nick: Oh no!

Willie: Do go and check out the site. At the same time, feel free to share it.I’m sure we’re on iTunes, too. People can tune into us from allover the world now. The technology is wonderful.

I do want to thank you for joining us on the show today.

Nick: You’re welcome. Thank you, Willie.

Willie: I want to thank the listeners for joining us. I again want toencourage them to go and visit your site at www.NixTheNews.comand help spread the word.

With that, I want to go ahead and wrap up. Do you have anyclosing thoughts for us?

Nick: I just appreciate all you’ve done in the industry. Just keep on doingthat. Let’s help as many people as we can.

Willie: Heart disease is certainly a very, very serious thing that kills people.The sad thing is that it’s a lot needless death. A lot of people dieprematurely because of not taking care of themselves when theinformation and medical help are out there.

I encourage you to check out what Nick is doing because it’ll makea difference. I know I’m at a point in my life when I realize I need

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to take good care of myself. So I’m eating right, I’m taking theright nutrients into my system so my body can keep rebuilding itselfproperly. I encourage you guys to do the same thing. We want youto be around and tuning in to my show for a long time.

Nick: That’s right.

Willie: I do want to thank everybody for joining us on the show today, andI want to wish you a happy rest of the week. Stay dry and don’tpay much attention to the hurricanes that are hopefully not going tohit us again this week. Thanks everyone.

Nick: Thanks, Willie.

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More About Willie Crawford

Willie Crawford first discovered the Internet while a young U.S. Air Force major, serving at Hickam Air Force Base, Hawaii, in 1995. Willie quickly grasped the basics of Internet marketing and built his first website shortly thereafter. By the time Willie retired from the USAF in 2003, he had already created numerous information products, written two physical books, spoken at several seminars, and even hosted his own Internet marketing seminar.

Since “going full-time Internet” in 2003, will has spoken at dozens of seminar in the U.S., the U.K, Singapore and Malaysia, and taught Internet marketing to tens of thousands through his articles, ebooks, and free electronic newsletter.

Willie now own numerous software companies, hosts his own internet-based radio show, operates numerous portal websites, teaches ecommerce to local offline businesses, and orchestrates product launches for a handful of joint venture brokering clients.

You can subscribe to Willie’s ezine for free by filling in the subscription form at http://WillieCrawford.com This is where Willie shares leading edge internet marketing tactics and techniques.

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Willie now does the majority of his coaching and mentoring inside a membership site that he founded at TheInternetMarketingInnerCircle.com

Those desiring one-on-one coaching can arrange that by visiting: http://WillieCrawford.com/mentoring.html

Willie can most easily be contacted by leaving a note for him at his support desk http://WillieCrawford.com/helpdesk/ (Use the category “Personal For Willie)

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