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THE QUALITATIVE ELECTION STUDY OF BRITAIN 2015

Dundee Post-election Focus Group 1 conducted May 10th 2015

Transcribed Focus Groups Dataset

Version 1.0

Date of release: 22 June 2016

Principal InvestigatorDr. Edzia Carvalho, University of Dundee

International Co-InvestigatorDr. Kristi Winters, GESIS, Cologne

Research AssistantMarcel Gehrke, GESIS, Cologne

Funded by British Academy and Leverhulme Trust Small Grant SG142740

and supported by Carnegie Corporation of New York, GESIS-Leibniz Institute (Cologne) and University of Dundee

QESB Contacts

qualesb@gmail.com e.carvalho@dundee.ac.uk kristi.winters@gesis.org

www.qesb.info

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‘QESB’qualesb2015 @qualesb

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READ ME

Transcribed Focus Groups Dataset Version 1.0

On copyright and attribution

Copyright of this transcript belongs to Dr. Edzia Carvalho and Dr. Kristi Winters. Individuals may re-use this document/publication free of charge in any format for research, private study or internal circulation within an organisation. You must re-use it accurately and not present it in a misleading context. You must acknowledge the author, the QES Britain project title, and the source document/publication.

Recommended citation: Carvalho, E. and K. Winters. 2015. 'The Qualitative Election Study of Britain 2015 Dataset', version 1.0. Funded by British Academy and Leverhulme Small Grant SG142740 and supported by GESIS, Carnegie Corporation, and University of Dundee. Available at: http://wintersresearch.wordpress.com

On the transcription

All participants’ names have been changed and any direct or indirect identifiers removed to protect their anonymity

The transcripts in Version 1.0 do not have enhanced data recovery including non-verbal communication. It includes the basic transcription of words said by participants. The participants have been identified through attribution by the moderator or other participants and by an initial attribution by the investigators. Subsequent versions of the dataset will verify attribution of participants by video identification.

The transcripts in this version also do not include extensive instructions given to participants at the beginning of the groups, introductions by participants, and exchanges between participants and moderators during exercises.

Initial Transcription by: Just Write Secretarial Services, Belfast, Northern Ireland. Contact: m.mckillen@btopenworld.com

Reporting conventions used

We have used ** to indicate words, phrases or sentences which we could not hear.

Italic font indicates we have taken a guess at a word/name etc.

Words in parentheses {} indicate physical gestures or what can be heard on the tape but cannot be clearly articulated into specific words.

Removal of direct and indirect identifiers are set off with + word +

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Location: University of Dundee, Dundee

Moderator 1: Dr. Kristi Winters

Moderator 2: Dr. Edzia Carvalho

Participants:

2015 AliasSex

Special Category Age group

Supporter Party Strength Pre Group Post Group Constituency

2015 vote preference

Mitchell M Y 65-72 Y Labour 6 Dundee Dundee 1 Dundee East Y, and partyAudrey F Y 57-64 Y Scottish Green 5 Dundee Dundee 1 Dundee West Y, and partyGordon M Student 18-25 Y Lib Dem 5 Dundee LD 1 Dundee 1 Dundee West Y, and partyLauren F Student 25-33 N NA NA Dundee LD 2 Dundee 1 Dundee West Y, and partyYusuf M N 34-41 N NA NA Dundee LD 2 Dundee 1 Dundee East Y, not which party

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ContentsVOTE CHOICE STORY..............................................................................................................................8

Mitchell..............................................................................................................................................8

Mitchell..............................................................................................................................................8

Mitchell..............................................................................................................................................8

Mitchell..............................................................................................................................................9

Mitchell..............................................................................................................................................9

Yusuf..................................................................................................................................................9

Yusuf..................................................................................................................................................9

Yusuf..................................................................................................................................................9

Yusuf..................................................................................................................................................9

Yusuf..................................................................................................................................................9

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................10

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................10

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................10

Gordon............................................................................................................................................10

Gordon............................................................................................................................................11

Gordon............................................................................................................................................11

Gordon............................................................................................................................................11

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................11

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................11

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................11

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................12

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................12

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................12

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................12

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................12

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................12

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................13

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................13

DO THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE A MANDATE?.....................................................................................13

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................13

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................13

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Yusuf................................................................................................................................................14

Gordon............................................................................................................................................14

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................14

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................14

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................14

TO WHICH POLICIES WILL YOU PAY ATTENTION?................................................................................14

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................14

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................15

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................15

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................16

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................16

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................16

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................16

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................16

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................16

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................16

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................17

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................17

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................17

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................17

Gordon............................................................................................................................................17

Gordon............................................................................................................................................17

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................17

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................17

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................17

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................17

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................18

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................18

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................18

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................18

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................18

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................18

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................18

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................18

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Mitchell............................................................................................................................................18

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................18

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................18

Gordon............................................................................................................................................19

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................19

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................19

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................19

Gordon............................................................................................................................................19

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................19

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................19

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................19

WAS THE ELECTION FAIR?...................................................................................................................19

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................19

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................19

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................20

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................20

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................20

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................20

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................20

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................20

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................20

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................20

Gordon............................................................................................................................................20

Gordon............................................................................................................................................20

Gordon............................................................................................................................................20

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................21

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................21

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................21

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................21

TOO MANY REFERENDUMS?...............................................................................................................21

Gordon............................................................................................................................................21

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................22

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................22

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................22

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Audrey.............................................................................................................................................22

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................22

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................22

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................23

Parliamentary election in 2016............................................................................................................23

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................23

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................23

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................23

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................24

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................24

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................24

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................24

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................24

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................25

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................25

Audrey.............................................................................................................................................25

Gordon............................................................................................................................................25

Gordon............................................................................................................................................25

Lauren..............................................................................................................................................25

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................25

Mitchell............................................................................................................................................25

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................26

Yusuf................................................................................................................................................26

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Transcript

VOTE CHOICE STORY

I2: So if you have already done this, thank you for coming back. It obviously has been a fantastic interesting election so we really want to know what your experiences were immediately prior to the election and what your experience was on voting day, and then afterwards of course during the results and then everything that has happened since then. So we'll try and go over all of this ground. In terms of the consent form, you already signed a consent form in the pre-election focus group so that covers you for the post as well, but if you have any questions, obviously pending from that, or anything new that has come up, feel free to ask us. And I think that's all the housekeeping I need to do so we'll get stuck right in. I think we'll start with the question I mentioned in the beginning, which is one of the things that we're really interested in is your experience or voting, essentially. So what we'll do is we'll take turns but what we would like to know is the story of your voting day. So when did you decide to vote the way you did, what happened to you on voting day, when did you find out about the results and what your reaction to the results were, and then of course the outcome and the aftermath and all of that is what we'll discuss later on. But for now we'll just try and get you to talk about your voting day. Maybe we'll start with Mitchell.

Mitchell: I think I'll be the eccentric if you do that. Well, I was postal vote so that makes it a bit boring, doesn't it? I arrived at the Labour Party office at 9:30 in the morning, just before 10 o'clock in the morning I was out on the street delivering things and knocking on doors. I think I had about half an hour off in the middle of that and carried on until 8:45, when somebody accused me of invading their privacy. I think that's because she voted the other way. Then I went back for another briefing, because I'd never been to a count before, which I thought would be quite interesting. I wasn't necessary but I think all the parties try to make themselves look tidy and so on, so I got invited to that and did my bit of the count, which is quite interesting actually, to see how the parties operate, and then I waited for the speeches, the result was inevitable and then I went back for a party. I didn't want to stay up late so I left at 5:30 because I had work to do the next morning.

I2: In terms of your postal vote, how long before voting day did you decide and then submit it?

Mitchell: It was a decision that was taken probably 12 months ago and nothing changed it, nothing materially changed, and maybe more so that that's the way to vote, and I voted with, I think, five days to spare because I had plenty of other things to do.

I2: When did you find out about the overall result, so not the constituency result but the overall result?

Mitchell: In terms of the UK result?

I2: Yes

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Mitchell: I think probably about two in the morning. I think there was enough information available, maybe before that.

I2: And did you have any reaction to that?

Mitchell: Only my actual reaction, which is the sadness I feel for what's going to happen to poor people over the next five years in the UK. At that point in time I also felt a certain shame for Scotland, because I thought at that time the SNP would be consequential, but they're not so that feeling has gone altogether. I can't blame them, so to speak. They have clean hands in the North, they won't be able to understand, I don't think, most SNP voters, what happened in England and the extent to which Alex Salmond has been used to influence elections down there. They just won't understand that; unless you're down there you can't see it.

I2: Thank you very much, Mitchell. [name?]

Yusuf: So I voted. I went to the polling station after work with my wife around 7:30, eight and I voted for Labour. I was sort of split between Labour and SNP, but I think I emailed you, you know, we had this event where we invited all the politicians, everybody, and one of the reasons why I voted for Labour was because the candidate who was standing did come up, and they responded to my email. But SNP didn't really seem keen. But Chris Law on the other side, from West Bay, came to our event. So based on that I just thought I'll vote Labour because they were quite happy to come and show support.

I2: So did you decide then quite late that you were going to vote for Labour?

Yusuf: Yeah, a week before, I think it was on the second, that's when I thought I'd vote for Labour.

I: It was candidate, that personal interaction that swung it for you?

Yusuf: Yes, because they were quite... Because we invited them to our event and they wanted to come and learn more about us and our community, because we invited everyone and most of the people did turn up except for the SNP candidate from our constituency. And we had Conservative candidates come up as well but I was never going to vote for the Conservatives anyway so... Yeah.

I2: And after you voted did you stay up for the results or did you decide I'm not going to bother?

Yusuf: I think I saw the exit poll showing that the Conservatives won, and I was quite surprised then because I thought it was going to be a hung parliament, and I went to sleep thinking it may change, because I was reading... Exit polls, they're not very accurate... Well, they're accurate now but they could be wrong as well. So hoping that it might not be the case but when I woke up in the morning, I mean, there was only one so…

I2: What was your reaction to that?

Yusuf: Surprised. I mean, I was thinking it was going to be a hung parliament. I was getting excited, it's going to be like oh who's going to form parliament and who's going to be in the... You know, whether it's Labour SNP, Labour Lib Dem, Conservative Lib Dem, who is it going to be? So I wanted to find out more about that. But it didn't happen so... Sad, yeah.

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I2: Thank you. Lauren, what about you, what was your voting day like?

Lauren: It was quite sort of tame, I guess. I went with my sister in the afternoon, and I'd been set on voting SNP but when I went in there I actually sort of… I mean, I do love the Green Party and I was wondering should I do this, but my West constituency, I thought it's not going to make much of a difference, so I did vote SNP. But yeah, I'm really sort of disappointed. When I got the result it was like the referendum result, I just sort of lose hope, I don't know, you just sort of feel a bit deflated and depressed, actually. And I do think Alex Salmond has been... Well, I think the SNP in general has been scapegoated for being branded as national. I'm not a nationalist, you know, I just stand for what I believe in, and I want a socially just society. I would have voted Green if it was a proportional vote but it's first past the post so it wouldn't have made any difference in my constituency. So I just sort of did what I thought was best. But if it was a different electoral system I probably would have voted Green, actually.

I: So would you say that, because if you felt like that SNP wave was going to spill over you're like I'm going to...

Lauren: I mean, Dundee West every house has got an SNP... It was inevitable. 08:33 Green box, it wouldn't have made any difference. Maybe the Greens would have, you know, been happier, obviously, because they would get an extra point or whatever, but I feel like I just had no choice, which means that the system has to be changed, I think, actually.

I2: You mentioned that you were disappointed when you find out about the results.

Lauren: Yeah, I sat up to 3 and then I just went to bed because I knew that they were going to get in. I just... I still feel sad; I just feel sad... I just feel sad for Britain, actually. I'm not a nationalist and I have to vote SNP because it's the only party that is anti-austerity. But I'm not a nationalist, I'm all-inclusive and if you vote SNP and you're English I don't think you really understand what you're voting for. You're branded as sort of like a Farage type, and it's not like that, and I think that's what's wrong with British politics, there's a cultural divide, to a certain extent, but more importantly there's a political divide, and it's so significant and it's going to break up this country, I think. So yeah, I feel really sad for the English people. A lot of people are going to suffer.

I2: Thank you very much, that was really insightful. Gordon, what about you?

Gordon: I went at about 8 o'clock or so in the morning and I voted Labour. I think I basically decided that when I moved into Dundee, because I was tactically voting antinationalist, basically. Labour were the only party that could do that. I guess the only other interesting thing about the day was I had done a vote swap thing on mine with someone in another constituency so I could vote the party that I actually wanted to through someone else, so we could swap that way. But I didn't really pay attention to politics for everybody. I kind of tried to ignore it. And the exit poll, when it came out, it kind of matched what I was expecting, to be honest. The polls just didn't seem realistic and so it's kind of matched what I expected, but I kind of am leaning towards that numb again, I guess.

I: Can you tell me a little bit more about the vote swapping, how it worked and were you happy with it and do you feel like it...?

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Gordon: Yeah, I didn't expect much from it, but basically you put in who you want to vote for, which was the Liberal Democrats, and who I would vote for in the constituency, which was Labour, and then they match you up with people in different constituencies and you can pick which constituency they were from. So obviously I picked a liberal conservative battleground. And then I thought that would be the end of it, we'd swap and they'd match up, but they kind of got you in contact for Facebook and the guy wrote an intimate message saying why he would be happy to vote Liberal Democrats. It gave me a bit more confidence that he would vote.

I: Do you know what happened, what was the result from the constituency?

Gordon: The Conservatives won.

I: Okay, yeah. It was like there was only nine Lib Dems left but if you would be in one of those nine then, you know… (Laughter)

I2: Just to unpack the results in your reaction, you mentioned that you felt numb. Has that changed?

Gordon: Not particularly. It was kind of disappointing on both sides of the border, to be honest, because it feels like two nationalisms have been stoked up which can't really be reconciled.

I2: Thank you. Audrey?

Audrey: I voted at 6:30 in the evening before I went out to my choir, and I felt people were going to the polling stations with such a sense of purpose. It was like everybody was striding out and it was really busy at that time and there was only one campaigner and he was for the unemployed workers union. But I got a sense that people had made their minds up and they were going to the polling stations to cast their vote and they didn't really need any other influences by that stage. The polling station was busy and had been busy all day, so a good turnout. I didn't watch or listen to any of the results coming in. I think I was more surprised by the SNP sweep than I was by the UK outcome, and I can't quite figure that out. So I did look at the analysis then, the newspapers were offering about where the votes had gone and the most interesting thing for me was that the Labour strong vote was in London, and that totally surprised me. I did not think that that would happen. So I think my biggest surprise has been to see the extent to which people have swung to SNP and the very narrow margins the Conservatives 13:45 from Labour. My voting was the Greens. I did have a wee wobble now and again, as I said, at the last week's focus group. Because Michael Marra was the candidate for Labour I did have a wobble, and I'm really surprised that SNP, given the situation with Menzieshill High School, has actually conquered the West End. I really thought that Labour would have got the West End. I'm really surprised at that, because there's such an outcry "out with the general election..."

Lauren: I live literally just down the road from Menzieshill High, but I think I've known for the last couple of years that that is SNP dominated. It used to be Labour. My granny and all that used to vote Labour but I think now people are just fed up. Yeah, that's Menzieshill.

Audrey: Yeah, so that really did surprise me but as for how I felt, neither disappointed or elated. I think the most positive thing that hopefully we'll take from it is there has been such a generation of energy that I hope we can maintain that energy and still go on and protest and write to our MPs and

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campaign about things that we think need to be changed. I'm really pleased it's Nicola Sturgeon that's leading, I think. She doesn't have quite as an aggressive leadership as Alex Salmond, so although I'm not an SNP voter, I feel a little bit more settled. Who's to say what's going to happen? I don't know. But I loved the online campaigns, 15:55 38° it's like yeah, go for that. So yeah, I really intend to keep that going and really start making local cases or national cases by way of protest. I wrote loads to the general govern so now just carry that on.

I2: Great, thank you very much.

I: That was really insightful.

Mitchell: It's interesting; from my point of view I hear you say that SNP's been scapegoated, and I see it as exactly the opposite, which I suppose is inevitable. In what way do you feel that they have been scapegoated?

Lauren: Well, I think it's a political question about nationalism, what that means, and I think that people in England don't understand what we're voting for. So for David Cameron, a few days before the election, to say if you vote Labour you're going to get a nationalist party with them, sort of in a coalition, and I think, you see, this is a political nationalist question, for English people the thought of a Scottish majority in Westminster, or even a coalition, ruling, not ruling, it's not a game of thrones here, but dictating their future, I think it upsets them, I really do, and in that way we're getting scapegoated, because they don't understand. And even Labour, you know, my family's got a history of voting Labour but the fact is they no longer represent the working people. So SNP have come up to that. Now, when you vote SNP it doesn't… I'm not a nationalist, it doesn't mean you're a nationalist, it means that you want social justice, it means that you want political change, you want an alternative to the Conservatives that Labour aren't really offering. So this is where politically, Britain is in a very dangerous position, because they don't understand why we're doing it, they think that we're racist or that we're not inclusive, that we want to put borders up, and it's not about that, and I think if they really understood what it was about they would embrace it more, they wouldn't be scared of it. But they are, I do think they are. Just as Farage has been branded as a racist nationalist, we are too.

Mitchell: I think from my point of view, to make my position clear, I was in London twice, two separate weekends just before the election, Alex Salmond's face was everywhere, his photograph with the smug face and they'd insert it in their pocket. Now, SNP, well, you can blame Alex Salmond for that if you wish, I don't know who you blame but that's the reality that was presented to the population in England, whether SNP's got any responsibility for it or not, I have no way of knowing. But the reality is that that's the way the election was played, that was the extra card at the end, and in that sense where I am the SNP I would be feeling really guilty that that is what happened, whether I meant to happen or not. I mean, Alex Salmond is a very clever operator and I don't think he makes many mistakes in life.

Lauren: And so is David Cameron-

Mitchell: Absolutely

Lauren: And I think they're very astute they know how to manipulate

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Mitchell: So in terms of consequence, to my mind that has been a very big factor in the fact that you've got a Conservative government back in, and were I a SNP organiser I would be feeling pretty embarrassed at the moment about essentially what I've done to the population, because you campaign for anti-austerity, which you can always do if you're a fringe party with a maximum number of votes of 59, you can campaign for anything because you'll never have your number called, but whether you mean it or not is not the issue. Assuming you mean it then equally what you've done is for the poor people in Scotland you've just given them £12 billion worth of cuts to their benefits. So that's one of the reasons I was walking my socks off in the election, not that it was going to make a difference in Scotland, in particular, but that's where we've ended up, we have got those tax cuts, like it or not.

I2: Can I just pick up on that issue, because one of the questions we have is about this issue of a mandate.

I: Before you start that, I was going to say we're going to give you a little preview of our findings and then one thing that might at least give you something to think about is people in England love Nicola, people in Wales love Nicola, so I know Alex was a negative face, so a couple of people-

Mitchell: I've asked people that I know and who have voted most ways and I say to them "don't answer the question but think to yourself three criticisms that you have heard made of Miliband," and they go... And I say "give me three criticisms, but don't tell me, of Nicola Sturgeon in the media," and they go... And then it's silence. So you have to realise that the way in which the media campaign, I'm not talking about the social media, I'm talking about the public media, the broadcast media, there has been NO criticism.

I: What we found was people were reacting to her debate performances, because that's how they mostly got to know her, and they did have some negatives of her. They thought she was maybe a bit aggressive and for independence and things like that. But I think in terms of that idea of Salmond in Scotland, I think Nicola can maybe put a new face on it. But that's just a little preview of the findings.

DO THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE A MANDATE?

I2: Coming back, because you have raised some issues about what the people of Britain are getting, and I think one of the things you wanted to prove and touch upon are these anti-Tory, get the Tories out, we don't like the Tory protests that have happened, in London especially. Do you think that the Conservatives have a mandate, given the results of the UK election, or would you question that?

Mitchell: Do you mean morally or legally?

I: Democratically, a democratic mandate.

Mitchell: Whatever that means.

I: Usually it means getting the most votes.

I2: That's what we want to prove. I mean, Yusuf you're nodding your head.

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Yusuf: I think they've got the mandate, they've got the results with them. So yeah, obviously people are not going to like that but what can you do? That's democracy.

I: Gordon also was nodding.

Gordon: Yeah, I mean, every MP should be counted equally across the whole United Kingdom at the system of living. So regional differences, I think that kind of is not 22:55 by that, I think. So if they've got enough MPs they have a mandate.

I2: Mitchell, you nodded as well.

Mitchell: I was nodding yes, they definitely do and they certainly will in the next one, because at the moment the way in which the seats are divided up in the North of England gives an advantage to Labour, which you could say is an unfair advantage. That's about to get changed, that's in the Queen's speech, along with the 20% reduction in the maximum amount of money you can have if you're on benefits.

I2: Lauren and Audrey, what about you?

Audrey: I would say they do have a mandate but that's not to say that the next five years are just going to be clear cut for them. I think there will be a lot of arguing, a lot of protesting, and I think Scotland itself can change things. We did march against the poll tax and we did march, maybe not quite so vociferously against the bedroom tax and we drove up that 23:55. So I think there's always room to make your voice heard.

Lauren: I'm not sure they do have a mandate, to be honest, and I do think we have to change 24:14. I think it's horrendous. It's not very democratic at all. If you look at UKip, how many people have voted UKip in Britain? Quite a lot and they have one seat. Obviously I don't want to see them get more seats but if it was a proportional voting system I think we would have more MPs. I think that's just sort of, that shows you what the system does. Obviously Margaret Thatcher changed the boundaries and I just think that's limited the scope of democracy, especially with in constituencies. So I think we have to really evaluate everything about Britain, and that goes to how we vote. I really think so because I don't think it works.

TO WHICH POLICIES WILL YOU PAY ATTENTION?

I: So Mitchell you mentioned two policies, boundaries being redrawn and the benefits cut. Are there other policies that you're going to be paying, and other people we're going to ask what policies in the next couple of weeks, months, years, are you really most concerned about or will you be wanting to watch for? So those are two, are there other ones that you are...?

Mitchell: How long have we got? We're not going to leave Europe, they'll manage to organise that vote somehow so we don't leave Europe. If they did they'd have constitutional difficulties in Scotland anyway and the demand for the referendum. We're going to see the 45p tax rate come down within

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the year. In the Queen's speech I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase in the level which you do begin to pay tax, because that benefits people on 40% tax much more than it does on 20% tax and it doesn't benefit people underneath that at all. So that goes down with right-wing policies, so you'll definitely see that one. You're seeing a change to the law. The judges are going to be dealt with, they're going to be brought to heel. We've already had Michael Gove put in place for that. What's going to happen in Europe? That will be quite interesting. There's obviously, in Germany, for example, there's already support for the notion that you should have some limitation on free motion of people in order to look for employment. So they might get somewhere with that. The person they've put in from the foreign office is a hard case as well, so we've got a lot of very right-wing people. How they'll get on, they might produce a reaction but in terms of policies that will be another one that they'll be going for. There's going to be a whole raft of things. Already Theresa May has announced more intrusion into Internet and into email; that's been announced already. All of these things will happen, that's what a mandate means and the only way in which this government would be shifted is if within two years the Euro sceptics don't get the referendum result that they're looking for. But even then you've got Nigel Farage sitting in the wings to 27:10 government, and I don't know where the SNP would stand when it comes to what's in their best interest, because leadership want a separation, that is what they want. Whether the nation wishes it or not that's what they want. So had there been a Labour government they would have sunk it at the right time to get what they want. So yeah, there's going to be more than I can imagine. I had exactly the same feeling when Thatcher came in, and I was wrong, it was twice as bad as I thought. So selling council houses, that was already promised. So the council houses for people who need social housing, they've been sold and they're going to be replaced by nice cheap ones that people who've got a job, not a zero hours contract of course and not a part-time contract, because you can't get a mortgage, you can't get anything, but these other wonderful people who are the hard-working people of Britain, whoever they are, they'll get a chance to buy a house cheap. So, you'll get all those. I slightly worry about the forests. If you think back to when Cameron came in, he tried to sell the forests. They're extremely valuable, because not only do you make a profit but also means you can pass on your inheritance tax free to your children. And he didn't manage that; there was UK-wide objection to that. He might go for that one again. If not, the national health will be the next one. Last year the parliament put in place the trade agreement with America, which now allows health to be something that Americans can buy into. So you know look at the possibility of chunks, hospitals, Ninewells, for example, being bought by an American group, you have that prospect. These are the things that really, really scare me.

I: Other people on policies they want to pick up on?

Yusuf: 28:58 that is one of things I was quite scared of, because I've been reading the newspaper ?? And the other thing is immigration. Fine, I've got a passport here but my parents they live back home and if I want them to come and visit me I know they're going to start making it more difficult and that is one of my concerns. Benefit cuts, it's going to affect people, everyone. So yeah those two are the main things for me.

I2: Does anybody else have any issues that you are looking out for, you're concerned about?

Audrey: My main concern is increased privatisation and have asked people just locally within Dundee who have links with the NHS how much more outsourcing is going to be done and they have

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said no, no, no, there won't be. But there will be much more outsourcing and much more privatisation, so particularly the health service I think is a huge one to be concerned about, and education as well is a big concern. So increased privatisation is high on my agenda to be watching out for, and the trade agreement. The sort of thing seemed to slip in, don't they? There is an awful lot of decision-making that- (Mitchell nods his head)

Mitchell: Just nice and quiet

Audrey: Yeah, and the trade agreement has been one that you don't hear too much about it. But there was something happened a few years back, and I actually don't know how far this has gone now, I did write to Jim McGovern about it, and it was about people's ability to buy health products over the counter and there was to be some sort of control over what people could buy. So it was a bit like the homeopathy thing, really. There would be a control over, for example, vitamin C, how much vitamin C someone could purchase. So that was beginning to creep in, that we want people to be responsible for themselves but not too responsible that they're going to overload on vitamin C. That seems a very insignificant thing but actually alongside that comes a whole load of significant factors, and I think the trade agreement-

Mitchell: If Labour did that you would call it a nanny state. What would you call it if it's Conservatives that do it?

Audrey: 32:07 I don't know but it would probably have a different description.

Mitchell: On the immigration one and workers here, it's interesting. As you know, there's lots of people working in the UK who are from abroad. I'm thinking of someone from Canada who is working here now and he has to apply for his visa every year. I've forgotten the price but he also has to apply for a visa for every member of his family, including his children, and the fee per child is £500 every year.

I: Mine was £400 when I had a two-year work permit.

Mitchell: So I'm thinking of one particular person who's UVP or something here and it's £7000 a year to renew his visa from Canada.

I: It's a commonwealth, yeah.

Mitchell: Yeah, it's a commonwealth, and that must make somebody in London feeling very, very happy because they've got £7000. For doing what? Nothing. I mean, the children are all at school. £7000, I mean, there's no justification in that. Other people I know who married and therefore could claim citizenship and so on and haven't done it, but they have to pay something like £1200 a year in order to maintain their status. For what? Now, these are the things which right-wing people are going to push harder. Obviously the Tory government has not managed to control immigration, either from outside of the EU or from inside. So students are a nice soft target so they've been hitting the students. Okay, in London that's maybe necessary because there have been some very dubious colleges, definitely in England. But those things are going to take off with the right-wing agenda, I think, and it's going to be quite nasty.

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I: Anyone else on policies that are of interest or concern to you? Lauren?

Lauren: I think you made a good point about just how right-wing they are, because I've been reading today that there's... what does she do, she's just been elected? They're electing a lot of women but maybe that's not a good thing, even though I am a feminist, because apparently she's sort of anti gay and all that kind of thing. So I think that's another representation of just how right they are going. Also this human rights issue as well, how much control they have over or what they class as wrong or something. They're just dangerous. So yeah, I think that's scary, just the fact we don't really know what they're capable of. Ideologically, how far right are they? I don't think we understand that. Well, I don't.

Mitchell: And another fact would be Northern Ireland. They need the Unionist vote. At the tail end of Mrs Thatcher's time, and John Major as well, they both needed the Unionist vote, and John Major gets a lot of credit for the relative peace we have in Northern Ireland, given to him generously by Tony Blair, because he was prepared to have his government fall when he lost the support of the Unionists. Now, the Unionists are, I think, more right-wing than what we've got in government just now so they will have a big influence. I would hate to see Northern Ireland go backwards at all.

Lauren: But they're more conservative in Northern Ireland anyway; they're not progressive at all.

Mitchell: But they have more influence than they used to have, because they're 12 votes, I think it's something like that. They're very important.

I: I think Gordon you haven't spoken yet.

Gordon: I think everyone has kind of covered what I was thinking anyway. The human right side of things was the last thing that was on my mind.

I: But the ones that would be your top five.

Gordon: I don't know, every time I think about it are so many things I always forget. There's always one last thing which is even worse than the thing that I talked about before. (Laughter) it's just awful. I'd say maybe the human rights Act, welfare cuts, probably more departmental spending cuts, and personally, in terms of the immigration debate, I think for academia, where I work, it's going to be awful. It just kind of detracts from people wanting to come here and do well here.

Yusuf: I know a lot of people previously wanted to come here and study because of the post grad visa scheme you used to get, but now most of the people I know, they don't really bother coming here. They spend so much money here studying and then in the end they have to go back, so...

Mitchell: Because you used to get one year in employment, didn't you, and that's been... They've got rid of that.

I: One year, sort of an opportunity to stay.

Yusuf: Fine, you get your degree or whatever but if you don't have any experience then...

Mitchell: Two months now or something and that's it. Is it just two months and then...?

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I: I was doing a post doc and when I was looking around at jobs this thing came up in Germany, and they were basically like red carpet, "Come on in, €80 for your visa, you can become... here's your permanent residence in five years, here's how you become a citizen" versus £400, go to Croydon and wait in line behind bullet proof glass and everything and just knowing that they were going to be capping visas for academic posts. So why fight tooth and nail to try to get a non-EU visa while they're privatising the universities?

Mitchell: Meanwhile you've got the huge queues and the inhumane treatment that you get, in Heathrow in particular, but if you've got a private jet you fly onto a private airfield and there is no Emigration, there's nothing. There's nobody there, you just get off the plane and get in the car and drive away. And we've got these plutocrats at the top and the rest underneath, and where I think they'll have difficulty is when they sell off the next lot of shares from the TSB with a 30% discount, because they've sold off half of what they own, those things, some Tories out there who voted Tory for them in England are going to start to think, "Hang on a minute, I didn't get a chance to buy the Post Office ones, I didn't get TSB, or will we get a chance for the RBS? And what else have they got coming up? And it's not even coming to me, it's going to them up there, and I can't see how far up that is." So that might be a difficulty for them, it might be. They've got Boris lined up for the second round and they've got hundreds of 38:40. So they've got it in the bag for the next election as well, I would think.

I: Anyone else want to jump on that?

Yusuf: I was speaking to somebody and basically they said if Boris is elected as the next leader the Conservatives are going to lose because he's a comic, he doesn't come across as a serious guy.

Mitchell: He's had his hair cut. (Laughter)

Lauren: His comments about Scotland are quite serious.

Yusuf: What's he said?

Lauren: I think he refers to us as jocks, you know what I mean?

Mitchell: Playing to the English audience.

Lauren: He may be a joker but I don't think he's funny. Sorry, I'm very serious.

I: So now that we've bonded over the misery of the future... (Laughter)

Mitchell: Speaking as an English man, it's not possible to elect a Scotsman to be Prime Minister; it's not possible. Tony Blair was real strong because he was educated up here and had some roots, and the only thing worse than that would be somebody from Wales.

Lauren: That is a very beautiful question. Why is that not possible? If Labour and Conservative, who fought very hard to keep us in the union, who treasure our contribution to the society, why on earth wouldn't they have a Scottish Prime Minister? What about Gordon Brown?

Mitchell: I'm talking about English people

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I2: Not elected, that is what Mitchell is saying.

Gordon: SNP are a party that only stand in Scotland and only represent Scotland. 40:12 can't understand this.

Lauren: All I'm saying is I could be a Labour supporter. Say I put myself up for a Labour and I can move to Croydon and become a representative and then leader of the party, but I'm Scottish, is that not acceptable?

Mitchell: To the Labour Party, yes, but to English people...

Lauren: But that's a very good question and that's why this country is not in a good ship politically, because there is big divides, and like I say, if you vote SNP it doesn't make you a nationalist. I really think people need to understand that.

Gordon: But the only represent Scotland. I wouldn't say they don't care but they don't stand to represent candidates in the rest of the UK, so they only care about people in Scotland, they don't care or put the policies forward for people in England to vote for as well. It's a thing about identity, to an extent.

Yusuf: Just one thing. I'm speaking to one of my friends and I was quite surprised to see there are quite a lot of Scottish politicians and we don't really know them. For instance Michael Gove.

Mitchell: He's from Montrose. I taught him.

Yusuf: Yeah, I was quite surprised to see the 41:20 Scottish politicians who are in Conservative Labour, and you don't realise because it's like they've sort of become English somehow.

WAS THE ELECTION FAIR?

I2: So getting back to our agenda. This is very interesting. With a smaller group and with more time it's kind of nice to let these things play out, and I hope you guys are enjoying the conversation too. But looking at the election itself, and this is something that we're doing in conjunction with the electoral commission, do you guys feel that the election itself was fair and well run or did you experience problems or hear about problems or any concerns?

Mitchell: The election process?

I: So the actual date, the voting of and the ballots and all that kind of stuff, do you feel like it was well run? No concerns about fraud?

Mitchell: Yes, I haven't 42:11 that yet.

I: We haven't had a Florida situation.

Mitchell: And you're still allowed to vote something other than SNP in Scotland. It might not be long though. (Laughter)

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I: So did anybody feel like the process was… Okay, they just want to hear if people have concerns about fraud or any… We asked the question in terms of the registration process last time. So they'll just be happy that people are generally happy with the way that the day is being conducted.

Audrey: I think we just have to trust; we wouldn't know unless we directly saw an incident.

Mitchell: Having been for the first time to the count, I was quite impressed by the way things worked. So in front of me, when one of the three boxes from the West was tipped out, there was an argument about that's not the same as the number of people that we had registered as having voted, that was then triple checked and they had made a mistake of one when they were counting the number of votes, because first they count them out and do a first trawl of taking out the ones that have rude things written on them and so on, so that was extremely well done and you have members of all the parties standing looking at the counting of every vote. So there is no miscounting; it is not possible. You'd have to do something with boxes between the polling station, and they all travel together and they have an escort. I think, unlike some other Third World countries, I think that's still totally okay.

I: In Florida

Mitchell: Dundee, Dundee West.

Yusuf: I just have a small comment. When I was putting my vote in it didn't go all the way in and I was thinking if somebody... If I didn't just push it back in, I just felt if somebody wasn't careful somebody could have just taken out. I'm not saying anyone would have done that but...

Mitchell: Was it under public view?

Yusuf: No, I think only the two... They were the only two that were sitting there. It was quite easy, I mean, I could basically get hold of it if I wanted to.

Mitchell: So they could have had a ruler in there.

I: The good old-fashioned way, bang the box until it shakes in, or whatever.

Gordon: Is there a way that people check who's actually registered or not? Personally myself, I got two extra polling cards for flatmates that had left. So they didn't know that. They probably could have voted at home as well actually, so they could have had their home address and their term time, and they had left the UK and were still getting polling cards.

I: Do you know if they had registered with the new system, the online system, your roommates?

Gordon: I'm not sure.

I: But you did get cards through?

Gordon: Yeah.

Mitchell: That is definitely a problem and so too is the problem of people who are living abroad who are not entitled to vote whose parents have put them on the register. I do know one person

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who voted SNP that way, and I've decided not to do anything about that, but nonetheless that does happen, clearly, and obviously I could do that for my kids that live away from Scotland. I could have done that but I'm too honest.

I: Okay. We've got two more questions, really.

I2: Do you want the referendum question?

I: Okay. So one of the things that you guys brought up in the 45:28 topics was the EU, and do people here generally agree that there will be an EU referendum, as promised?

Audrey: David Cameron is really hammering it out, isn't he?

Mitchell: He's got no choice.

I2: You agree as well?

Yusuf: Yeah, I think so.

TOO MANY REFERENDUMS?

I: So the question I have is just in terms of when I studied British politics I finished up my Master's in 2005, you know, referendums were not something that Britains did. Occasionally you'd have an odd one that would pop up but it's not like the Western states in the US were basically you've got 46:00 legalisation all over in various things, gay marriage and everything. But now, in a very short space of time in terms of British politics you've got the AV Referendum and then you have the Independence Referendum, and now you're looking at an EU referendum. Is it too many referendums or do you like this opportunity to have national discussions and learn about an issue and have a direct say? So I'm just kind of wondering what people's reactions are to be announced over and over again to make these kind of decisions. Lauren, you're nodding your head.Lauren: It's good, it's very healthy. If it wasn't like that then we'd be living in a dictatorship, so it's good for democracy, I think. I mean, they're big questions that I think only the people living, society can answer and not some politicians. I think they're inevitable and necessary for democracy.

I: Thanks. How about you, Gordon?

Gordon: It depends on the public engagement in it. If you asked people about the AVF referendum, they've probably already forgotten that even happened, to be honest, and turnouts were very low and things like that, so it wasn't that engaging in a discussion about political reform and things like that. But the Scottish referendum I thought, I didn't like the way it went but at least it got people talking about it and people making their points and things like that and debating things. Yeah, I'm not that bothered, to be honest. It depends on the topic.

Audrey: I think the timing of it might be quite critical for Scotland because we've got another couple of elections coming up. So I think if there's a referendum for the EU, and Mitchell made a really valid comments last week about you're surprised at the lack of education sometimes that

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people have got roundabout politics. So if it was quite demanding for people to separate themselves from the referendum and then the general election, two completely different voting processes...

Mitchell: Two parliaments.

Audrey: Yes, I think that the timing might be the difficulty. It's almost like saturation point for people.

I: If you're voting in 2014 and 2015 and 2016 and 2017.

Audrey: Yes. So that would be my only comment. I don't know how we go about educating, I just know how I feel about the EU, but to make a huge decision like that, it's quite overwhelming. So we shall see how that one plays out.

Mitchell: I suppose that's one of the issues, isn't it? The constitutional change is about as big as it gets, are going to war perhaps is bigger. So a constitutional change, you really should be trying to gauge on a single issue what people think. The difficulty is I personally don't think that 50% of the population in the UK are looking to leave Europe. I just don't see that. So were having that referendum in order to keep the Tory right wing quiet. You could make the same kind of observation here. My understanding, SNP, if they get more than 70% of the seats in the 2016 Scottish election there will be a referendum. So what's the point in having the first one, because the plan is to have a second one? So this issue is there and so I have this feeling with referenda that... Sorry, Betty Boothroyd ruled that the plural is referendums. I prefer the Anglo-Saxon, she said, not the Latin. So if you have referendums then I have a feeling that you probably should try and help them on almost everything or not at all, because essentially, if you like, although for you, voting SNP wasn't an independence issue, I think for the majority of people I knocked on the door of, it was strongly an independence issue, as well as austerity and frustration and so on.

I: You were knocking in Dundee though.

Mitchell: Well, that's true. But that is in Scotland. But if you do the 50:26 overnight, kind of thing, and if you are looking to sort out British politics a little bit, and obviously one of the things you've got to sort is the cost of elections to the individual parties. Why should some parties have lots of money and some got none and so on, some have air time and don't have to... That has to get looked at. But on top of that you've got the issue of whether or not voting in the referendum is actually compulsory. So if you're in Switzerland, for example, or Australia, it's compulsory. And if you do that then you're going to have people off work in order to vote. So it's a big step, and at the moment I think people are soul-searching because they're exceedingly unhappy with the last five years. That was inevitable, given the world crash that was caused by Gordon Brown, that was inevitable where there was going to be austerity and that was going to frustrate people. So therefore the fringe parties, the nationalist parties, referring to SNP as a nationalist party, they were always bound to get people moving in that direction. But is that a justification for the next 50 years, having Britain in a place where you have a referendum? The number of people who don't vote is astonishing, and who are proud of it is also astonishing, and the number of people who are barely able to vote and just don't know what you're talking about, they don't know what an election is. I mean, people have asked me at the door, "How do you vote? How do you get that card?" I'm thinking where have you

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been for the last... So there's an education issue there and I would like to go back to newspapers 52:02

I: Yusuf, how about you and referendums?

Yusuf: I just think I wouldn't get on well with reading radical stuff. It costs so much to do these referendums and it's money out of taxes basically, and you know what the result is going to be so why waste money? If you want to make a decision, just make it, why spend so much money asking people for their opinion? Yeah, that's what I think. You should get people's opinion on stuff but you get the general feeling what's going to happen anyway. I mean, Britain is not going to leave the EU but just to satisfy some of the politicians, I just think that's madness.

Parliamentary election in 2016

I: So you mentioned that there's another election coming in less than a year's time, so we were wondering do you think that this election outcome will have an influence on how you may vote in the parliamentary election in 2016?

Mitchell: Could I say there's a precursor to that, if you've got time, and that is what will the fallout be in Scotland, if any, now that people have woken up and Nicola Sturgeon isn't the Prime Minister, because a lot of them thought that was going to happen, I promise you, and not only that, she's got zero influence. It's true that the Scottish voice will be heard, whether it's true it wasn't heard before, but it won't be listened to because there is no need to listen to it. That's the way democracy works. I mean, you can go down there, you can shout as loud as you like but 216 Labour seats aren't listened to so why would 59 be listened to just because it's… Well, it isn't Nicola after all, is it?

I: But I think people will see the Parliament is very different in terms of how they're voting.

Mitchell: So in terms of the huge sway there was the huge move, and the marching into the polling, marching into the polling but you hit the wall, now what's happened? Oh, the Tories are back but benefits are still being cut. I don't know what follows that. I mean, people will feel shocked but do they then turn around and blame Labour for, God for it, do they blame Nicola? I'm going up, by the way. I mean, do they blame anybody or do they just go oh well, back where we started. Oh that's why we... Or do they say that's why we've got to vote for SNP in 2016, that's why we need a referendum? These are some of the possibilities. So I'm interested to know how other people think the population, let's stick to Dundee for the moment perhaps, how they're going to react over the next few weeks. We've already seen David Cameron go to visit the Queen and so on but they haven't actually filled their policy yet. But it won't be long.

Lauren: We'll definitely get DevoMax. No one has really mentioned that but I think that will be number one in the Scottish... the Tory agenda, I think, giving Scotland what obviously they said they would do. If they don't do that then that just gives SNP another mandate for another referendum. So they're so desperate to keep us together. So we will get that; I'm 100% sure about that. But it's interesting, what happened in Scotland, this SNP sort of sweep... I understand that; I'm not sure other people do. I know that wasn't a mandate for independence, that's a mandate to get a fairer…

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to get better parties in Scotland and in Britain. So for example, Labour, that was a protest vote, I believe. For example, if there was a referendum in the next two years I still think that most people, after getting DevoMax wouldn't know, unfortunately. But that result is a mandate for Scottish Labour, or Labour in general, to get their act together, because people I know that have voted Labour all their life turned to SNP, not because they're Nationalists but because they don't believe in Labour anymore. Labour are completely lost. It's really sad that that they no longer represent normal people, working people, they really don't, and I think that's what they don't admit either, they don't say on the television. They blame it on SNP nationalism, they don't say that it's because of the Iraq war, big decisions they made or the fact that they're not against austerity, that they're more to the right, you know, Tony Blair, let's be more to the centre. No, if you look back on the history of Labour, in the 1900s they did a lot for working class people, and I think that's what they've lost and forgotten. So Scottish people don't stand for that, and I think that's what they did. So in the next election you will see probably more people voting SNP, but like you say, I don't think it's a vote for independence, it's a protest vote.

Mitchell: You think a vote for SNP will increase?

Lauren: I think they will get the majority, of course, 100%. I mean, that's only a year away and we'll get DevoMax as well, because there's no other party to vote for. I think people really need to understand that.

I: So would you go Green SNP next time, do you think?

Lauren: I don't think it would make much difference but I guess... I mean, I have to see how SNP do but I think it's very important to understand that voting SNP doesn't mean you want independence. There is no other party in Scotland, there is no other party in Britain, to vote for.

I: We've heard the same thing. We've heard people who voted yes on the referendum and said I don't want another referendum but I do want SNP as representing us in Westminster. So we have heard that another groups, it's not about getting another referendum so much as wanting an authentic Scottish representation.

Mitchell: So in terms of the effect...

I: But if we could get back to the Parliament... I wanted you to have a chance to express yourself, because I think that's important. Getting back to the 2016 election and the idea that there will be DevoMax, is that going to sort of shift the way that you are perceiving your vote then maybe, going forward? I know it's a long ways off but you can think about maybe how you voted last time or how you thought about voting last time.

Audrey: I voted Green for a number of years now and I don't think that will change. I can't quite get my head around this voting, what you called again, you mentioned it, because you know that a party is not going to…

Mitchell: Tactically

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Audrey: Tactical voting, yes. I can't get my head around that anyway so I wouldn't go into that. But I think that Labour might actually come up with something, because Alan Sugar has said he's come out with the Labour Party not because, if I understood it properly, not because of this lack of engagement with working people, everybody's working, but because Labour Party didn't do for business what he expected them to do. So Labour could actually flourish. We don't know what's going to happen but I think I'll stick with the Greens.

I: So you want to see Greens in Parliament.

Audrey: If we had PR Greens we'd have had more seats as well.

I: Yes, that's another case. Anyone else thinking about the Parliament? I know it's a bit early but we're hoping to get funding for a study to come back for the Parliamentary elections so we want to get a little bit of a baseline here, if people are...

Gordon: I'll probably stick to what I know, I imagine. But I guess with more parties coming into Scotland, and also my lack of understanding of what the issues are in terms of the Scottish parliament, I will listen to what the parties are saying and what the policies are, I think, for Parliament. But I think one of the key things is to have a strong opposition in collaborative Parliament. I really think SNP having over 50% of MSPs in Scottish Parliament is kind of dangerous and stupid really, to be honest, if you're on the left 60:09 I think is important.

I: A diversity of views.

Gordon: Yes.

I: You're nodding too, Lauren?

Lauren: I don't think you should just have one. You need a mixture of ideology and stuff. But I guess the rights and the lefts, so I'm right-wing. So yeah.

Mitchell: I think it will depend upon... Scottish politicians are portrayed as being a totally different race from the ones in Westminster. There is no duplicity in Scottish politics whatsoever. However, the announcement about Menzieshill closure had to wait until four weeks after the referendum and there is no decision just now but there will be in four weeks time. We all know it's going to close. The same duplicity which England politicians are accused of will occur with regard to the referendum. So whilst I have been told that the referendum will take place if you get more than 70% of seats in Scotland, I don't think that's going to be in the manifesto. If it's in the manifesto then people like you will go "Wow! Hang on a minute..."

I: Mitchell, you can look at me when you're speaking, you can address us.

Mitchell: Sorry, I apologise. I'll do it again, "Wow! I didn't vote for a second referendum." I think the duplicity will apply, or just clever politics, whichever way you want to describe it. I think that will happen. So I don't think when people go to the polls they will be facing another referendum, they'll just face it afterwards and they will be told you just gave us a mandate. A year is a long time in politics, it's a heck of a long time, and I still think people in Scotland are going to wake up and when their benefits get cut and so on they're going to say, "hang on a minute, what's Nicola doing about

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it?" And at that point they'll work out it's nothing to do with Nicola and then they're going to say "who's the leader? It's Alec, isn't it? No, it's not Alec, who is it? It's that other guy, what's his name again? No, we never heard of him. What's he doing?" And they're going to stand up in the house... One of the terrifying things is we're going to see the Dundee West candidate stand up and speak in the House of Commons. He will struggle to get a sound hearing and I think that's going to be something where Scottish people might be going "oh no..." There's a certain sense of embarrassment. I don't find the general candidates who've been elected impressive. They're not the same as Salmond, they're not the same as Nicola Sturgeon, they're not made with the same stuff. So there's a whole lot of factors there that Scottish people will gradually begin to hear of. The Sun newspaper had its brief romance, telling everybody that you should vote SNP. Will that continue? Well, it will come back just before the election, no doubt, the Scottish election, but it's not going to continue, because they're just chasing money and so on. So there are a whole lot of... I think it's far too difficult to call what the effect will be. It's about two to one the way people voted in Scotland, if I'm right, roughly two SNP voters to every one Labour, and the seats don't tell the story, just the same as they don't… Well, they possibly do in England but I don't think so. So yeah, I think it's too hard to call. It won't make any difference to the way I vote. I had a certain confidence and a certain pride living in Scotland that Scottish people had the sense to vote no in the referendum, that's the way I felt, against the propaganda. I know that's a partial view, and I have a certain pride in advance that they'll do the same when it comes to Scottish election, because all the things you've said, all the power in one place, Dundee is the perfect example. So that's dangerous but we'll wait and see.

I2: Yusuf what about you? You're the last person to speak on whether the vote this time, or your vote this time...

I: And you don't have to have an opinion, by the way. We don't want to force you so if you don't it's okay but if you do we want to make sure you have...

Yusuf: I'll see what the policies are and whether they, you know... Yeah, it depends on how much they interact with me.

I: Kind of like whether the Labour candidate is making an effort to make a personal connection.

Yusuf: Yeah.

I: Well, I told you if we got done early you'd still get paid.

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