Going Public Catalogue

8/7/2019 Going Public Catalogue

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BAVO

ERWIN VAN DOORN&

INGE NABUURS

LEE JOSS

26.03.11 - 10.04.11

Embassy Gallery,10b Broughton Street Lane,

EdinburghEH1 3LY


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This exhibition is concerned with work thatinvolves the use o the specics o site as key totheir character and as a result cause an uninvitedinterruption o what is termed public space.We are ree until we reach the ences - in thework o Erwin Van Doorn and Inge Nabuurs thesurroundings that orm the backdrop to theirvideos and photographs have lost their potency.The locations are given meaning by an actionand an object. In this case site is used as part oa triangulation o real, imagined and symboliccontext. The actuality o act is not important,and any authority o act is questioned, reducedto document indicators. The reality o the story isnot the goal, identiying with it is.

Elaborating rom ideas and themes o re-writinghistory, o deconstructing the authorship involvedin documentation and the responsibility involvedin didactically going public with inormation,the Embassy also present the archive o LeeJoss. Lee Joss appeared on the scene around

last May. Re-suracing with tales o interven-tion and promises o altering the coordinates othe city, Lee would subsequently allow artists abreak rom themselves in the orm o an act incollusion with orced estivity. A sel-proclaimedauthority gure and estival junkie, Lee took theopportunity o a readymade audience, expectanto constant perormance to produce another layero reality.

INTRODUCTION

Shona Macnaughton

The constant fexibility o Lees identity issympathetic towards the anti-autonomous senti-ments expressed by BAVO, whom the Embassyalso welcome. BAVO have been given a platormto introduce their proposed programme or bestpractice rom the Oce For Artist Participationo Rotterdam. They will deliver a series o pres-entations to the Edinburgh audience propagatinga hardline approach towards the artists role ineconomic, social and spatial policy.

By showing this work together, as three distinctprojects but with interlinked parts, there is anattempt to present a dierent way o workingand to question the artists position in society. In-stead o occupying a critical distance, the workshown here cannot claim the moral highground,it is ully embroiled in a process re-enaction andover-identication. By adopting the conditions ocertain situations, whether that be the regenera-tion policy o Rotterdam, the cultural accelera-tion o the Edinburgh estival or the haunted

corners o Europe, Going Public attempts todeal with what characterises the commons in thecurrent moment, and what the notion o publicmight mean now.


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LEE JOSS

The Lee Joss Project


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Such terrible times lay ahead. Arts lost aurahad been replaced by celebrity and the quietswoosh o the Montblanc ountain pen acrossthe Coutts bank cheque book. Subsumed bythe market the artist could easily be reduced toa style and style to a ashion, their work legiti-mized by the approval institutions sponsoredby UBS (the department o wealth managementnot eagles). The only option that remainedwas withdrawal - worklessness and disappear-ance - avoidance and invisibility. Tumbling onto this new map rom the rozen north emergedan anti-hero o sorts. The bastard son o HarryKipper and Janez Jana, distant cousin o RroseSlavy, brother and sister o Reena Spaulings,lover o Claire Fontaine; Less Joss was tootired o lie to wonder about what art to make.

What does it matter who is speaking, Jossqueried at birth I AM WHAT I AM. My bodybelongs to me. I am me, you are you, and some-things wrong. Joss shouted, drunk on waterrom the clear ountain, Mass personalisation.Individualisation o all conditions - lie, workand misery..atomisation into ne paranoiacparticles. The more I want to be me, themore I eel an emptiness.

I we are all artists, then Lee Joss is all o us.Lee Joss is the name under which 10-15 Edin-burgh based artists work collaboratively. Jossis not an alter ego, not, that is, another I butinstead another us. Another orm amongst thecollective identities to have emerged rom theunease o a new generation o artists, each beinga point o opposition to the singularity that ispackaged and presented to us or consumptionin easy to swallow capsules - now containingquickly absorbed liquid to target our pain somuch aster and still not working. Joss is not a

person but a space or creative action ree romhegemonies. A heterotopia perhaps, or maybe a

We would no longer hear the questions that have been heard or so long: Who really spoke? Is it re-ally he and not someone else? With what authority and originality? And what part o his deepest seldid he express in his discourse? Instead there would be other questions, like these: What are the modeso existence o this discourse? Where has it been used, how can it circulate, and who can appropriate it

or himsel?

Michel Foucault. What is an Author?

I AM SPARTACUS: LEE JOSS AT THE END OF THE

END OF THE ART WORLD.

portrait o the artist worn by her protagonists todisguise the collaborative approach beneath, theirtrue identities remaining hidden like the terroristwho is able to pass unnoticed in the territory thatthey are readying to attack. A murderous ges-ture and a suicidal act, not enacted with bombsor I.O.D.s, but equally not merely symbolic, thisis a very real response to Bernadette Corpora-tions call to get rid o yoursel. BernadetteCorporations own response maniested itselthrough Reena Spaullings, the artist brought tolie rom the collectively authored novel o thesame name, but Lee Joss has gone urther bynegating the creative act through putting it out totender. Joss is open source, ree to use, program-mable with instructions that will be carried outi they compute as uninvited and non commis-

sioned public art. Liberated rom the terribleburden o nding out what to do Joss has be-come the agent or realising projects, a uniyingorce through which things might happen.

Operating like a ree party movement or thevisual arts, Joss is born rom the possibility owhat might happen i we come together to dowhat we do in opposition to what exists. But thisnew collective spirit is not uelled by pills, BartSimpsons, Strawberries, and whizz but instead itis high on the excitement o disappearing.

The Estate o Alex Bloom, Muri, Switzerland


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I took a drive, circling the periphery. The edges ofthe town which I knew very well from borrowingthis granny car but where I had never been becauseI had not renewed my license when I was meant

to.

I discovered that I had broken my back and that Ihad lived on the English seaside at one point.I thought about how my next project would work,

who I could work with next. I came to a conclu-sion whilst getting my diaries out, one empty,one full of work and friends, that I would call ameeting at my place. There would be no one therebut me. I would chat. I would decide.

See you there. The meeting that I had wasinteresting. It feels likewhat I want to do is becominga little clearer. Being me isquite confusing sometimes.Who am I? But at the meetingI started to understand. I ama lot of things. Like mostpeople, I have many person-alities.

Copy citymaps one for every

line between 2 points that are

activities related to the specifc

event, during the event walk

between these point be sure to

make notes at the map some-

where at this walkingline do ado it yourself performance make

notes video it put it on you-

tube place the link on the map

when you ve done all the lines

between all the activities copy

the different maps together into

a travelguide sell these at the

waiting lines the work is called

SOMETHING IS MISSING itwill be 5 so S.I.M.5 the earned

money will go to me at least

hahah ooh yeah and mark the

walking path for followers

In this site and time specific project

for me, participants covertly play a

series of tones at the edges of human

hearing throughout the Royal Mile and

spaces of the Edinburgh Fringe. These

ultrasonic sounds work against many

notions of the festival - an invisible

performance, with no start and end

times, no ticketing, and no set location.

Unheard, except on a subliminal level,

they create shifting, temporary spaces

which are vaguely hostile. Playing on

the varying stances of welcomeness,

the project subverts the notion of the

ideal tourist - the more a visitor is

aware and tuned in to their environ-

ment, the more likely theyll want to

move away from it - while the passive,

unaware festival-goers notice noth-

ing. Using low-cost technology in an

unauthorized performance, the project

remembers the original festival, while

asserting the micro-dramas and thea-

tre of the everyday: with the crowd as

participants, the street as stage, andthe artist as catalyst.

Thanks for the invite... wouldit be possible to find an appro-priate target to re-enact thefollowing?

Its all at the link! But basi-cally a picket (with or wihtoutcounter-demonstration)against a serious culturetarget with demolish seriousculture banners etc. You canlevitate too if you like!


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THROUGHOUT A HOT DAY, THROUGH-OUT A WET DAY, UNTIL THE WEATHERCOOLS OFF, UNTIL THE WEATHERHEATS UP, THE ARTIST SELLS WA-

TER IN EXCHANGE FOR MAKING HERSMILE, THE ARTIST THROWS WATERIN EXCHANGE FOR MAKING HERSCREAM. THE EVENT TAKES PLACE

ON A MAIN SHOPPING STREET, THEEVENT TAKES PLACE ON PRINCES ST,BETWEEN A EDUCATIONAL INSTI-TUTION, A GALLERY AND STREETVENDORS, BETWEEN URBAN OUTFIT-TERS, ANN SUMMERS AND BHS.

A brainstorm or an uninvited inringement on

the ringe estival. Per usual, our conversations

have led us to the ridiculous, and the absurd.

1. ) Collect empty aluminum beer and soda

cans. Choose several colors o spray paint and

paint the cans with these colors. Leave the top

and bottom shiny aluminum surace to stay

unpainted by covering them with tape. Make

several groups o these cans and leave them

on the street as unique trash. (on corners, neardumpsters or portable toilets, etc)

Regarding production, we would like the

specifcs o these concepts, such as materials,

placement, to be open to interpretation as a

orm o open collaboration.

LEE JOSS

IS

A GRASS

Tis idea is connected to the sculptural pro-ject that I am currently working on. Whatit would entail is spraying a small amount

of black spray paint onto various walls,lampposts, hoardings etc. about 50cm up

from the ground.

Te amount of paint applied should varyfrom place to place and the paint mustalways have drips that run down towardsthe ground. See the visual references below.

Te fact that the way that paint is applied

conjures up thoughts of dogs piss allows itto serve as a kind of signature or territorialmarking by the artist. Tis reference a doglowers the level of the artist in the publics

perceived hierarchy.

Te title of the piece DOG/GOD

SK Vending Machine is set up as a space designatedby two outdoor chairs and a styrofoam box placedupon a stool. SK Vending Machine is set up as aspace designated by two cans of Tennants and aplastic bag placed upon a bench. The text on eachside of the styrofoam box reads: Water in exchangefor making me smile. The text on each side of theplastic bag reads: Water in exchange for makingme scream. Paper cups for serving the water areplaced on top of the box, which contains the watercannister. Shoes for throwing the water are placedon top of the plastic bag, which contains the water

cannister. During the period of the project, the artistsits in one of the chairs, During the period of theproject, the artist drinks one of the cans of Tennants,and deals with those who stop by at the area, andignores those that stop by at the area. The secondchair is present for the visitors who would like to sitdown.The second can is present for the visitors whowould like to sit down. The stool, besides elevatingthe box closer to eye level, if needed, also servesto provide a second seating. The bench, besideselevating the plastic bag closer to eye level, ifneeded, also serves to provide a second soaking.The two chairs used are identical and typical of the

locality. The two cans used are identical and typicalof the locality.

I have crossed the sea, to the land of bigrocks and rivers. I seem to be face to facewith my ancestors a lot lately, they are

staring up at me from old, dry photo albumswith their serious protestant eyes. Thereis something about all this, history and thetimeline, just continuing and continuing. TheRoyal Mile with its long history. Maybe lessabout its executions, city under the cityand other famous stories and more aboutthe line, going back and back.


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Nobodys bag.

PerformedbyActorX.

Performed onthemark.

Props:oneplasticbagcontainingtwo boxes ofchocolatesand two

tinsofbeer.

Performance takesplace atBrunch sandwich shop, 52 SouthBrid

geEdinburgh.During EAF2010.

Actor Xenters Brunch whenit ishalffull.

ActorXhas theplasticbagconcealedinashoulderb

ag.

ActorXorderslunchandacoffee.Sitsdownatatable.

AtthispointActor Xwaitsforsomeonetoleave.(Amarkwithba

gsifpossible).

ActorX canperformtheartworkwhenthemarkleavesBrunch,t

here also mustbeasecondempty

tableotherthanthemarksemptytable.

Whenthemarkhasexited theshopdoor,ActorXcanplacethe plas

tic bagunderthe emptytable,but

notthemarksempty table.

This mustbedoneinasubtlemanner,ifpossibleslidunderatable

close-by,usingthe foot.

ActorXrunsoutthe doorafterthemarkandcallstothemark:

Youveforgottensomething

Atthispoint ActorXencouragesthepersonbackintothe shop.

ActorXbeckonsthe markbackintotheshopinafriendly manne

r.

ActorXpoints outthebag underthetable,stating:

Iseen youleavingandyou leftyour bagunderthe table.

ActorXtriesto engagethestaffatthispointto validatetheaccusationthatthemarkhasindeedleft a

bag.

Theaimoftheartworkandthe roleofActorXistoencouragesome

one toacceptNobodysbag, and

takeitaway.

Ifthisdoes nothappenActor Xmusthand nobodysbagintothes

taff.

IfActorXisat anystage accusedoffoulplaytheymustleavethepr

emisesinastate ofindignation.

IfActorXisnotaccused offoulplaytheymustfinishtheirlunch,t

hen leave.


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PEOPLE OF

EDINBURGH. WE HAVE

AN IMPORTANT

MESSAGE. I THINK

WEVE ALL HAD A BIT

TOO MUCH. ITS BEENFUN BUT NOW CAN

YOU ALL JUST GO

HOME. PLEASE CAN

YOU GO HOME. NO

MORE FLYERS. NO

MORE SHOWS. NO

MORE COMEDIANS. NOMORE BAD DRAMA

STUDENTS. NO MORE

ART. WEVE ALL JUST

GOT CARRIED AWAY


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I have the bag with all the essentials. Had to work that day, so it took place in Barony

street way a way from the royale mile and the original place. I went the opposite way.

Had with me the recorder that I loaned from Shone. Stressed at the wrong place. We are

shutting in half an hour. The table where the people are sitting is too far away I cant put

the bag there. I wait with the recorder facing up into the sealing. They talk forever and

dont move. I wonder whether this is really happening or what. I have to pay for the soup.

I stand up with the plastic bag still in my hand and walk out. I walk more till I got back

to work.

It was early, people were still on the day be-

fore. But it was this day.

I prepared the Wee Red jute bag with a hole

in it. I tested it out on a lamp post, then on a

phone box. The next one failed because of the

wind. It was a music shop. White paint. Then a

green workmans bag, then a white council

bin, then a festival poster then an old sofa.

Then back. It was all over my hands, I had to

go home.

Bed.

We met and exchanged fles. I dispersed and

played them. A dog and a tourist noticed.

I had coffee and signed some postcards.

I spotted the placard. She was talking to two

ladies. I followed a tour until I had to go,

the street furniture it smelled of piss and she

was sincere, she meant it.I texted him to tell him where I was and that

was the moment I lost my documentation.

I ran to meet her to give her my ipod, she had

on those off road sandals.

I worked. I cleaned quickly. I texted to tell

him where to go, nothing had happened when

I went to the cafe with that fur coat on, dis-

appointing hippies.

I ran back to hear about what had hap-

pened, I had been on a procession. This is not a

performance.

I went to hand out my yers outside the

venue. Rent this show, Rent this show, Rent this

show, Rent this show. I saw my documentation,

it didnt see me.

I went to the pub, the barmaid tried to take

my cans, what a laugh.

Saturday 21st August 2010Play ultrasonic sounds on the top deck of the 37 bus for

1 hour.

Coffee

Attend a tag tour (ask about Winston).

Lunch

Join the Muin protest (bring placard and uniform).

Pub

Flyer for rent this show outside the under belly.

*Remember umbrella*

I went to a caf with a friend forlunch during the festival. I wore oneof two pairs of duplicate clothes. Ichanged between two blue eeces, twowhite tee-shirts, two pairs of greytrousers and two pairs of grey shoes.I wore one set of clothes, the otherset was in a jute bag I was carry-ing which had another jute bag inside,to store the set of clothes I changedout of. I changed between these twoalmost identical sets of clothes threetimes while we sat and ate a particu-

larly good mezze plate for two. Whenthe mezze rst came it felt like itwouldnt be enough for both of us, butwe were proved wrong. I went to thetoilet to change, I would undress, thenput on the other set of clothes thatwas in the bag. I would then re-packthe other bag with the set of clothes Ihad just taken off. I walked out of thetoilet appearing as before. The cafwas fairly busy, we bumped into anotherfriend and sat for around an hour withdifferent customers coming in and out.


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We arrived at our

Or I arrived at late our. A standard passage,unwashed, both skin and clothes, or washed, thesmell o yesterday still clinging to my hair, allo-ver. I had started to colourin patches o my skinwhere it wasnt tanned enough with a selectiono Pantone pens acquired rom a dusty cornero town, the opacity o ink allowing blemishes

to show. It didnt happen or others, or anyoneelse, to t in not sure, or where, or stick out, anapt trope or activities, like tight jeans and tightshirt, everything tight and clinging to me, not asa metaphor, in preparation.

My duty was to calm, or to act as i calm, withnothing to be calm about, with calming unneces-sary, my part tautologic, acting the act o caml,the operative o this paradigm, not me possibly,acting out proceedings, or agenda, easily. Im

sure we all elt calm, or smoke at least, like ascreen,sure, in the moment, o course. Therewas a conch looming, not as trope or metaphoror imagery, but or real, not bothering me,or threatening me, but threatening to crystal-ize circumstances like charcoal or crude oil orothre product o nature, similar though. Thiswas nature, a throng, but it, it was un, not likekicking the paving slabs, they blunt my toes withtheir surace, or sidedepth, dripping almost intothe ground, maybe gasping or air or not, like

authoritative, to learn , maybe. It let a markthough, my oot leather, or leather shoe scungthe concrete, or stone, amalgamations o snadand other minerals, limestone, whos mixingwith water ormed depth,chemical processesstrengthening bonds,byproducts created, but theminerality o bers binding strands o materialinto greater feshy depth, rupturous depth, thebonding conrete unable to hold in place, waitingto teach, no byproducts created anymore, tryingto swap.

I let a little while ater, eeling not much morecould be done on my part, others kept on, pos-sibly, we ended roaming like beore, in anotherwild throng, gazing together at the little whitedots that orm in ones eye when maybe bloodovercomes the ehad, that couldnt happen simul-taneously o course, it was maybe elt, togetheruntil I went home, or another place, not ar, re-ally, pupils widened, veins quietly tempered.


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ERWIN VAN DOORN&

INGE NABUURS..But Now It Needs To Be Done...


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This work is a collection containing 17 videos, allshot at dierent locations in Europe, their com-mon is being part o the same historic event. Atevery location the same synopsis but with indi-vidual signs, dierent marks, these can be devidedin the ollowing;

a-locationb-objectc-activity

There is one scene, shot real-time no edit, a bodydoing penance. This ritual is lmed rom one

angle. The camera is the eye o the guard, com-mander, boss, the one in control. This way thespectator is orced to be the authority responsibleor the ongoing exploitation o human energy.

The subject is devided in the ollowing;

x-imaginationy-symbolicz-real

(All based on true acts rom a person who wasorced to participate within a totalitarian system.)

We gathered authentic documents about androm the collaborator, mostly ocial papersabout trials and hearings. At this point our re-search starts and the artistic intervention begins.

Going through archives, books, conversationsand the internet we complete the puzzle. (subject).It is hard to gather inormation because even

today related people and institutions are notopen about it. There is still a eeling o shame.Inormation ound in the archives is not knownto regional archivists.

We travel to all the locations (a) mentioned in thecollected material. And perorm a ritual-penanceasking or rehabilitation. In every penance anobject (b) is being used to perorm the activity (c).

a + b + c = subject.

a=x ore a=y ore a=zb=y ore b=z ore b=xc=z ore c=x ore c=y

a. The locations are nowadays used by military,prison, parking lot, monument, hospital, crazy-home or residential area. Institutions between thepublic and private.b. A prayer is scratched in every used object. Thisprayer reers to the position o the object. Duringall penances the object is the cause o pain.

c. The work done by the collaborator is justenergy destruction. Within a totalitarian systemthere is no surplus-value.

( subject + truth ) /conversion = existence.

We all are part o cultural models and rootsthat exist in the writing o history based uponcorporal punishment and death o the innocent.How people are manipulated to believe certainvalues. Bigger powers take the lead and make

decisions. We all are in some way related to his-tory which divides the people in good and badones. O course all o the problems and questionswe encounter in contemporary society todaycannot be explained in one or the other theory, itis complex.

This work deals with tensions and conficts inthe world. It wants to re-construct history andshow what is erased. Produce complexity as ourcommon reality. Construct oppositional identities

and make re-identication a possibility. It wantsto tear down the vagueness that masks our his-tory with a acade o continuity. To make awarethat we are all traumatized.

Our trauma is that we are all orced to exploitthe energy created by our body in decay. (truth).

MODULUS


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..BUT NOW IT NEEDS TO BE DONE...

In conversation with Erwin van Doorn & Inge Nabuursby Kamila Wielebska

The project is based on the story o Erwinsgrandather. What was the story?

Its a long and complicated story it all startswith a ew words in pencil on a little piece o

paper, together with a legal document. Thiswas all we had to start searching. First wevisited one spot mentioned in the documents.At this place located in Den Helder we ounda museum which introduced to us the so-calledArbeidseinsatz, a law that obliged Dutch menbetween the ages o 18 and 40 to go to workin Germany. To escape this orced collabora-tion some 325.000 men went into hiding. Morethan 600.000 men did work in Germany orsome time. So grandather was one o these men

who was orced to go and work in Germany.So at this point we know that this is not justa personal story but a common story, and wewant to do more research in the national ar-chives. At the national archives in Den Haag wereceive 4 records o legal documents related tograndather. Here we nd locations and dates.With this inormation we start to puzzle outthe context and circumstances that begin to tellthe story. Many descendants are searching orinormation about ancestors, and there relation

to history. What can be ound in these archivesis legal. To nd a story we need more, we needto identiy. And only when we can identiyourselves with the other we are able to see thisstory. To identiy we need to eel what causedthe choices made. For this we used a ormulagiven to us by Lacan. This ormula says that asubject can be divided into real, symbolic andimaginary. Here is our reconstruction. Duringthe Second World War grandather was work-ing in a actory in his hometown Schijndel andhe was orced to go to Germany to work in

Lichtenau stamping dynamite. Ater sabotage,his superior beat him up and made him do theworst work available, namely shovel chemicalsinto a silo. Because his gasmask is broken theyellow powder he is shovelling is coming outo his ears, nose, mouth, he thinks this willkill him. To survive grandather gets the ideato volunteer or the German army. He didso in Kassel and was sent to Cernay, now inFrance to get an education. But he didnt tryhard enough, so he was beaten up again by hiscomrades this time and shipped to Czuchwwhere he must wait or the general Seyardtbattalion coming back rom Stalingrad. Ateruniting with these soldiers they went to the

ront at Ledyczek to ght the Russians. Insteadhe shoots himsel and as wounded he helps toget the more heavy wounded to Szczecin, andthen to Hamburg to the hospital. There he isaccused o sel-mutilation and transported toNurnberg where he is sentenced to work in abattalion to dig holes, in Feldbach. When theRussians came again, he fed and got caughtsomewhere near Obertauern. The allied bringhim to a camp at Naples and rom there hereturned back to the Netherlands where he

remained a prisoner or about 2 years goingup and down through the country, living anddoing orced labour in dierent camps. Hisnationality was taken away. Ater he was setree, he remained without nationality till the50s. He never talked about it, nobody knew,neither my grandma, nor my mum, nor herbrother, nobody. My grandather died withoutever sharing these experiences. He could nottalk about this the stigma was and remains toostrong. Repression was the only way to survive

and take care o his amily. Till he became ill heworked at the actory that appointed him to


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go and do orced labours or this he had to signanother contract that he would never be pro-moted. When people are named wrong, whatgood can they do? This man that always said tolove lie, to do what you want to do, was neveraccepted by community.

Why did you decide to share this story withother people?

We are the other. This story is very personalbut also very common. Sometimes when weshow this work, we get the response rom otherpeople that they are also related to someonewho was dealing with the same issue, the amilysecret. For example when we showed parts othe work in Slovenia the guy who was helpingus realize the installation during a break sharedwith us that his grandather was also a col-laborator. His girlriend looked at him and saidthat he had never told her about it. You see, its

beautiul to be a part o such a moment whena person decides to let the secret go. The title othe work ...but now it needs to be done... alsoreers to your question we need to share oursecrets. Because we can ask today; what did welearn? Politicians are again dividing civilians ingood and bad ones. So sharing the story wasnta decision, it is something that needed to bedone. We can t go back re-building camps orthe new wrong! We are ree until we reachthe ences.

How do people react to your project,especially in the Netherlands?

We did a side project, a protest at the CampVught National Memorial. The Memorial usedto be a transition camp or Jews during theWW2. The Nazis build it but ater the war theDutch who were accused o collaboration withthe Nazis were also imprisoned there and whenthey became ree it was used as an asylum orcolonial soldiers who had to escape rom their

paternal land because they supported the Dutch.These ormer colonial collaborators are stillliving there but when we were doing researchin the archive, at this place, people who workthere told us that it isnt their job to archiveinormation relating to the time ater WW2. Sowe decided to do a protest. I held plates whichsaid: National Memorial hides wrong pastand Camp Vught covers up blind spot. We didit during the inauguration o the guides or anew season. And what happened? Nothing. No

response. This is also what happens when we

are doing the ritual in public space, it doesntmatter where, no-one will interere or ask anyquestion. People are doing what they usuallydo thinking that it will go away. But an institu-tion like this Memorial reacts dierently. Whenwe posted a text and pictures on a website orchildren o the wrong Dutch to share what wedid the National Memorial threatened withlaw against this website and they deleted our

text. So its being ignored and they keep silentas long as they can manage to do so. The cir-cumstances in this camp during the ater-WW2period are crimes against humanity inficted byneighbours. Former victims became oendersnothing changed but the roles.

You are going to every place on yourgrandathers route. Tell me more about theseplaces and what exactly you are doing there?

Erwin: What I am doing is an activity during

which I use a scratched object to destroy mybody. Every time it is dierent and the threeelements: location, activity and object could bereal, imaginary or symbolic. And each time oneis real, one is imagined and one is symbolic.I am trying to eel how it could have elt, Iam over-identiying mysel with the subject,becoming the subject, I am trying to really bethere. Kierkegaard says that in times o pain webecome one, soul, spirit and body are connect-ed and create together an intense experience o

being alive. Maybe thats what I am doing, try-ing to be alive, become the moment and orgetthings as the original sin, become empty, puriy.Rehabilitation, its a process, to show that mybody isnt stronger than time, that I am nothingcompared to what surrounds me.

Inge: In archives we ound names o cities,villages and regions. Many spots are importantlocations in historical events beore WW2 andbecause o their strategic position and goodavailability used again in wartime. Today someplaces are dicult to nd and even wiped othe map completely others have retained theiroriginal unctionality Nowadays these placesare still in unction to gather groups o peoplelike crazy-home, hospital, museum, court, mil-itary-camp, prison. These locations all have agood transport network so that large numberso people or goods can be transported ast orexample by boot or train, others had a dierentpurpose and were used to shelter or hide.. Typi-cal is that some grounds changed rom publicto private territory. The spots are very


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important because they are a source o inorma-tion. To orm perception it is necessary to visitthese places, and to see these places today withthe scars o that time. How are they used oroccupied today? At the spots I use the camera ina way that it orces the body in destruction tocomplete it s penance. The camera decides whenthe penance is enough. This is the totalitarianrelation between ruler and subject. Like this we

visualize the trauma that we all are orced toexploit our body.

The places are very impressive to investigate, Imade pictures which we ll show in Edinburgh.

The videos only show one rame-eld o thelocation, the pictures show what surrounds theplace, were we did penance. The pictures giveextra inormation about scale, parameters andrelations between the dierent locations. Weshare the private in these public spaces here

we all touch each other with our stories. Whenwe look at these pictures we share the eelingthat anything can happen because nothing ishappening.

Your project consists o many elements andone o them is a sound recording o yourvoice reading some text. Its like a poem abit, I mean the structure. I ound also a loto emotions in it. Its not a typical way otalking about history. But this way it could bea message that history is created by us and it

consists o many personal stories. Tell me moreabout this text and its meaning.

What can we tell more about it? Everythingcomes together: the research, the travel,thoughts, urgency. We don t like to explain itword by word, we like that its understandablein many ways. We see this as a fux o wordspopping in our heads during the process orealisation. But history isnt created by us butby those in control. This is an attempt to change

that, thats true. In act time has been deletedthis makes the words historical, contemporaryand uturistic. This way we share our ear thatit can happen again any moment.

But please, explain me how the text isconnected with the place. Its hard to saythat it tells some story, there are rather someimpressions, some thoughts.

We believe it is a mixture o imaginary, sym-bolic and real and indeed partly the story, partly

impressions, it s a mille plateaux.

Other elements o the project are scratchedobjects, videos and story-drawing. How doyou use scratched objects to destroy yourbody? And what kind o objects do youusually use? You bring them with you or justfnd on the spot? Is it important? Is it a kindo ritual?

How the object is used can be seen in the vid-

eos it s dierent each time but it all starts withchoosing an object or the specic location. Thechoice depends on what place the object takesin the Lacanian ormula. Again it can be sym-bolic, real or imaginary. For instance the bricksin Vught are real. When a person was inter-rogated he had to kneel and hold these bricksin ront o him. The mirror used in Czluchow isimaginary. Here was the ceremony in which thesoldiers pleated their loyalty to the Fuhrer. Themirror thereore shares the question; how long

can we look ourselves in the eye? The whitefag used in Ober-Tauern is symbolic. We knowhe surrendered here but not how. When wehave the object I start to scratch the prayer in itthis is already a ritual, giving the object surplusvalue through work. The materialization otrauma. When this is done, we bring it with usto the location where I use it like a whip orsel-castigation but without the spectacle, noblood, no marks. We learn about torture inmovies that its always physical. In the reality

this isnt true, there are tactics that the victimtortures himsel knowing that when he ails,he will be beaten by the other. So, its alwaysthe sel to blame, the other is just obeying therules and getting the job done. For us the objectbecomes like a relic, it is energized by the eventand the location like a spirit-charger. The ritualcould be the uploading o this mechanism,repeating it, making it a system. Its some kindo a potlatch but I dont destroy my belongingsbut my energy.

Tell me more about the prayer you scratch onthe objects. What is the story o it?

Reerring to a document rom grandatherthe prayer is scratched onto the objects andspoken ater the penances. Its the oundationo the problem, religion breeds yes-Sayers.Religion, can make people used to hierarchicalstructures, and accept orders without knowingthe goal o their task. To believe is good butto blindly ollow authority is not. We should

always be in the position to say NO.


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In the Van Abbemuseum you showed thescratched objects collected in the isolatedroom. The viewers cannot reach the space butonly see the objects through the special holessituated quite low, below the sight height.Actually, we are not looking at the objects. Weare peeping at them. Can you tell me moreabout this concept?

We wanted to share the eeling o secretintimacy. You are looking into the private andwhen your eyes are looking in the hole yourbehind is not sae and because you bend, youblock others. So the other has to choose to waitor touch. And because o the bending, musclesstart to burn like you are also doing a littlepenance, and bend down is o course a sign orespect, or the relics.

What will be the change between show inEindhoven and Edinburgh?

In Edinburgh we want to create a domesticenvironment with amily portraits but thedierence is that the amily wants to orgetabout this, and not to remember. We will showpictures o the public spaces surrounding thespots where we did penance. Some locationsare rozen or 70 years now others were deletedand some show us little marks. In Edinburgh wegive more inormation about the contemporarycontext.

And tell me some more about story-drawing.

The story drawing is a map o Europe whichshows the locations, dates, events, context andarchive inormation, it s a tool to discuss repres-sion and oppression.

Are the videos a kind o documentation owhat you are doing on spot, the penance?

The videos are one shot, real-time, no edit.We want the spectator to eel that they are thecause o the pain o the other. The position othe camera is that o the guard which controlsthe penance. They are a proo o the suerings.The videos are a perspective sharing the loss othe sel becoming the subject. It is propagandato say NO beore becoming part o a totalitar-ian system.


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Documents

Going Public Catalogue