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EXECUTIVE INTERVIEWEXECUTIVE INTERVIEWEXECUTIVE INTERVIEWEXECUTIVE INTERVIEWEXECUTIVE INTERVIEW AGENCY ROSTERSAGENCY ROSTERSAGENCY ROSTERSAGENCY ROSTERSAGENCY ROSTERS
12 2003 - 2004 Edition
into New York clubs. Andrew Ellis
was only about four years intobeing a so-called “full-time” agent,
but about two years into seeing
his bands emerge onto the nationalradar.
First it was just him, then he
and his mom, who helped answerthe phones. Now he and his staff,
Ginny Song, Floyd Starkweather
and fellow agent Matt Galle, areknown for that very ugly, very
overused phrase of “having their
finger on the pulse.” But, come on.Dashboard Confessional? Three
years ago, were there that many
folks out there that fully under-stood what Chris Carrabba was
doing?
Ellis Industries also has NewFound Glory and Alkaline Trio.
Then there’s those bands that he
has been booking for quite sometime but are just now beginning
to bust loose – Thrice and
Brand New, for instance – andanother band that’s going on
POLLSTAR’s cover, Taking Back
Sunday.And don’t forget the Ghetto Kids.
“No, The Get Up Kids.”
Three years ago, Ellis wouldhave to correct club owners on
the name while trying to book
a show.There’s no formula here, no
secret voodoo. It’s this guy who
decided to book a bunch of bandsthat he liked and found out soon
enough that when your bands
become popular, other agents want
to book them, too.
So how did you get your start
in this booking thing?
A I didn’t have a job at the time.
I was kind of working at a record
label, Another Planet / ProfileRecords. A lot of their bands
didn’t have agents, so they were
like, “Do you want to help thesebands out, or could you do
something so we can pay you
money?”For a bunch of years, I used
to be the stage manager at The
Ritz in New York City, bothincarnations – the original one
downtown and the one that took
over Studio 54. I was doing allthe amazing punk bands, all the
bands that ended up blowing up,
like Guns N’ Roses, Dinosaur Jr.,and The Pixies. Fishbone would
play there every other week, and
the Ramones played there.I went from the Ritz to
booking the Grande, which was
the old Kat Club in New York City.I booked there until the owner
closed the club.
Another Planet had Murphy’sLaw, American Standard, this
band called Stanley, and I don’t
remember the rest. I needed a job,and they’d try to find me stuff to
do. I’m not really good at making
retail calls, so they had me try anddo booking.
So, they booked their own
bands in a very rudimentaryway. There wasn’t any tour
support or stuff like that.
Murphy’s Law was the onlyband that was getting decent guar-
antees, and everybody else was
getting crappy guarantees. Sincethere really wasn’t too much tour
support, it didn’t really go that far
or last that long. From there, I wasbooking this band called Lounge.
And I started working with The
Promise Ring and that ended ...poorly.
The record label was never
a full-time thing. It was, like,four hours a day and very little
money. The job I was supporting
myself with was working forConverse. The job was “Special
Markets,” which was a job
I created. The job was doingproduct placement in music
and independent films. That
was way before every sneakercompany had a product place-
ment department.
So I’d put sneakers on Nirvanaand Green Day and Snoop Dogg
and the Ramones. A lot of bands.
The other job just paid for beerand chips. I was with Converse
for eight years, up until two years
ago.It allowed me to decide if I
wanted to be a booking agent and
it allowed me to keep bookingwhen I wasn’t making a living.
The first band to come along
was The Get Up Kids. I was
freelance booking clubs at thetime. I was booking stuff at
Coney Island High, CBGBs and
SOBs, and I did a show for JimmyEat World and the Get Up Kids at
Coney Island. They were touring
together. I talked to the Get UpKids and asked if they were
interested.
At the time, the roster was GetUp Kids, Lounge, and Hot Rod
Circuit.
So, you could say at the time
that Coney Island High, CBGBs
and SOBs was your “territory”?
A They were the easiest clubsto go into as an independent
promoter and gave me the most
freedom. At those clubs, it was likeyou booked the show, you helped
stage manage the show, you made
sure there was beer in the dressingroom, you’d deal with security
issues, and you’d just kind of run
around like an idiot.Converse made a ridiculous
amount of contacts for me. There’s
still people that hear my name or Iwork with on whatever and they’re
like, “Oh yeah! You’re the sneaker
guy!” or the “sneaker pimp” orwhatever.
So a lot of people in the con-
cert industry already knew
you?
A No. There were definitely
people who knew who I was but,by and large, up until a year or two
ago, people didn’t know who
I was or cared.
What would make the
difference?
A What would make the
difference? Just bands being
successful. An agent’s as bigand as powerful as the bands he
represents. When he thinks he’s
more powerful than his acts,then he’s in a lot of trouble.
Everybody’s stepped up. When
we started out, I’d be trying to geta date for the Get Up Kids and the
Andrew EllisEllis Industries
So there’s this guy, OK? Two years ago virtually
nobody knew who he was. He was booking all
these, for lack of a better term, “no-name” bands
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clubs would be like, “The Ghetto
Kids”?
“No, The Get Up Kids.”But that was way before this
whole wave of music started to
do really well, I guess.
Were you attracted to bands
that played this type of music?
A I was just attracted to bands
that I liked.
If I can’t sit through a show,then I’m not going to book
the band. If there’s a band that’s
going to do really well, and Ithink they stink or I don’t like
the music or whatever, I’m not
going to book ’em. If I can’t lookthe band in the face and talk
about the show and music, it’s
not what I want to do. I don’twant it to feel like work going
to a show.
The newest band I’ve pickedup is a band called Dios. A friend
of mine had a demo of theirs
and just said I should checkit out. I did, and it’s just great.
It’s something between The
Flaming Lips and the Beach Boys.They’re based out of Hawthorne,
where the Beach Boys were
from.The guys are just completely
green about what the whole
music industry is and the crapthat goes on. It’s refreshing
totally starting at ground zero.
They’d never toured outsideCalifornia. They didn’t have
a record label deal out there.
They were burning their ownCDs, writing on the case, and
selling them at shows. Total
punk rock, guerilla marketing.
Did you see them play outside
of California?
A I’ve never booked a band that
I hadn’t seen play live. The music
can be good but I’ve never pickedup a band that was bad live and
the music was good.
I went to this dive bar inHollywood; I can’t even remem-
ber the name of it. There was no
real stage, just this carpeted area
they were playing on. I was out
here for something and asked
them to book an L.A. show soI could see them.
Is that the case for most of the
bands you pick up?
A All of the bands I’ve picked up
have been on an indie label first.There’s never been a major label
band. A lot of them are on major
labels now, but a lot of them werein their infancy.
At the time, were you in
competition with the “big”
agencies for these bands?
A It’s like anything else. When
you’re first starting out andthere’s some kind of success,
then people want to see how
loyal those bands are to youand stuff like that. If there’s
something successful and people
aren’t sure of how well thatproperty’s protected, they’re
going to test it.
When you first start out,you’re very green to everything
that’s going on and you’re like,
“Wow! Look at all these (other)agents that are checking out
my band!” you know? And
then you realize they’re notthere as music fans. I think
there’s a lot of agents or agencies
that acquire their talent thatway.
Is there a formula for picking
these bands, or is it just as
simple as, “Wow. I like them”?
A Yeah, I guess it’s just timing
and luck, and it’s what I like.I guess all those things.
Where was Dashboard
Confessional’s career “at”
when you first approached
Chris?
A That’s actually a good
story. I was booking NewFound Glory on this Drive-
Thru Records tour and the
guitar player, Chad, was like,“We have this friend, he
plays acoustic guitar and
we want him to go on in-
between bands during the setchange.”
I didn’t want to do that.
It was going to screw the showup; it was going to make the set
change longer. It didn’t make any
sense.But Chad was persistent.
“It’s only going to be 15 minutes,
it’s not going to make a bigdeal.”
Whatever.
I was fighting him on it,we were arguing about it, and
he says the guy will go on 15
minutes at the doors and play15 minutes on the stage, how’s
that?
I was like, fine, OK, whatever.So we put him on the tour.
And I started hearing from Chad
and other people that this isreally good, it’s going well; here’s
this guy nobody’s ever heard
of playing by himself on anacoustic guitar at a punk rock
show, and people are being super
attentive.Then, when I saw it live,
I thought, This is awesome.
We had a show in New Jerseyand I sat in his van – it was
just him and his merch person
touring in a van – and wetalked and started working with
him.
Where did you start booking
Chris Carrabba?
A There used to be – and I guessthere still is but I don’t think to
the same degree – some amazing
halls all over the country. VFWs,coffee shops, karate schools. Here
and there you’d put a club in.
Coney Island High was a greatclub to start bands out at and
break them in. People at CBGBs
have always been awesome withthat. Chain Reaction in Califor-
nia has been great with that.
Emo’s has always been amazingand helpful with super, super
below-the-radar, unknown stuff.
There’s guys in Florida, anindependent company that takes
notice before clubs even care. In
Long Island, there’s this promoterout there, Christian, who’s always
done an amazing job.
We’d do a show in this VFWhall and there’d be 300 kids there.
Then the band would come back
six months later and there wouldbe 1,000 people there.
Maybe I’m in a different
place now, but I just don’t seethat anymore. There was this
kid in New Jersey named Rickie
who used to do these VFW hallsand firehouse shows. He didn’t
know anything about doing a
show. The band would play ashow and if it did well, he’d give
ELLIS INDUSTRIES’ Matt Galle, a delicious Floyd Starkweather and Andrew.
EXECUTIVE INTERVIEWEXECUTIVE INTERVIEWEXECUTIVE INTERVIEWEXECUTIVE INTERVIEWEXECUTIVE INTERVIEW AGENCY ROSTERSAGENCY ROSTERSAGENCY ROSTERSAGENCY ROSTERSAGENCY ROSTERS
14 2003 - 2004 Edition
them $200. There was no deal
or contracts or anything like
that.I don’t know if it was more of
me helping him or corrupting
him, but I’d show him how a clubwould work and how he could
use elements of a club show in
a hall show so that he could makemoney, the bands could make
money, and he could have a
better PA.He did everything. He did At
The Drive-In, he did The Get Up
Kids, he did Jimmy Eat World,New Found Glory, Piebald, just
all these bands that ended up
being really successful.
While you were saying that,
the publicist for Brand New
just called in to pitch the band
for the cover.
A Well, that’s good. Taking Back
Sunday is going to be on the
cover. Man, that’s great.
Any acts that you have that
are about to break?
A I dunno. There’s a few young
bands. Dios, Senses Fail, and My
Chemical Romance. Then there’sStraylight Run, which are two
of the guys who played in Taking
Back Sunday who left and startedtheir own band. They have an
upcoming co-headline tour with
the New Amsterdams, which isMatt from The Get Up Kids’
other project.
The New Amsterdams’ newrecord is amazing. It’s not a Get
Up Kids record; it’s Matt’s record.
It’s something to check out.It came out about five months
ago.
When did you feel the need
for a staff?
A At first, it was just me. Then,my mom would help me. She
would answer the phones and
still helps out. I’m lucky that shewas willing to help. I just knew
that it was getting to be too much
work. I was getting up at 11 a.m.in the morning and going to bed
at 6 a.m. and taking a 30-minute
nap during the day.
But that was just kind of toughto do.
So, I was talking to Ginny Song
on the phone. She used to workat Clear Channel – she took care
of the D.C. area. We’d talk on the
phone. I don’t even rememberhow it came up but I asked if
working here would be of any
interest to her. She said yes,and she’s worked out better
than anything I could have ever
wished for. She runs the showbehind the scenes.
Matt (Galle) used to work
for MassConcerts and he alsoworked at the Kenmore Agency.
I’ve been working with Matt for
a really long time and I don’teven remember how the subject
came up but we talked a lot on
the phone and he had bands Iliked, and Matt loves music and
always had a really good work
ethic. So he left Boston andmoved to Long Island and that’s
worked out really well, too. He’s
got his ear to the streets andhears about stuff. He and Ginny
are a great sounding board and
give me a different angle onthings.
Was your office always in the
same place?
A No. I mean, I live in the city,
so we’re in the city sometimes,but the office is in Great Neck. We
bought a place in Long Beach
and there’s a lot of constructionissues, so it’s been kind of
sitting there waiting for a floor
to be put in because an outsidewall had to be fixed. But,
essentially, it’s a Long Island
company.
So, right now, your office is all
across America?
A I guess. It’s wherever there’s
a cell phone signal or a modem.
So you’re carrying a laptop
around with you.
A No.
No?
A No. I don’t carry computers.I despise computers and I hate
e-mail. I won’t work with any
promoter who wants to workwith me exclusively by e-mail.
And I won’t work with an agent
who works exclusively by e-mail.If you can’t get on the phone
and talk to someone, then I really
don’t need to do this with you.I know people are in a hurry and
e-mailing the itinerary is fine, but
when it comes to negotiating ashow or talking about a tour,
in one conversation you can
get done what would take 10back-and-forth e-mails.
Did you ever try?
A I tried a little bit and thought,
This stinks. I don’t like getting400 e-mails a day saying, “Hey!
What are you doing? What’s
going on later today?”Just pick up the phone.
I still have e-mail but if you go
to [Pollstar’s Agency Directory],my e-mail address isn’t listed
anywhere. It’s just too informal.
“Hi. I heard about you throughwhatever and I was wondering
how much this band costs.”
Just pick up the phone!What’s even better is when it’s
something really urgent and they
e-mail you. They’ll say, “Didn’t
you get my e-mail?” I check mye-mail once a day or every other
day. There’s a few people I just
started working with and I’vesaid, “Don’t ever e-mail me if
it’s anything you need addressed
in the next day or two.”If somebody sends me an
e-mail and they’re looking
for whatever band to play thiscollege or date, I’ll e-mail the per-
son back and say, “Cool, thank
you for your interest. What’s thebest number to reach you at?”
So why would you need to stay
up until 6 a.m.?
A I don’t sleep a lot. And when
I first started out, I would go tobands’ Web sites and see where
they were playing all over the
country and try to research therooms and see what other bands
were playing the rooms. The
Internet has made booking amillion times easier.
There are kids who are
promoters who promote stuffor halls or rent out clubs that
either go to school or have
another job and are neveraround. You can leave a message
on their cell phone but, ulti-
mately, you’re going to getin touch with them by sending
ELLIS INDUSTRIES’ Ginny Song and Matt Galle plot strategy with Andrew inside thecompany’s Star Chamber.
2003 - 2004 Edition 15
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them an e-mail, or you’re going
to find out how to get in touch
with them by sending them ane-mail.
I guess there’s good and bad
things to it. I don’t rememberhow many times I’d be on the
Internet for hours. I can’t even
remember the Web sites now,but there were all these amazing
regional punk Web sites that
would just list all these hall showsand all these contacts.
I’ve got about 22 or 23 bands
on my roster right now. There’sa lot of bands that have side
bands or other bands. I still keep
these hours because I tell all thebands that I work with that I’m
accessible. If there’s a problem
with the show, you can call me.I make myself accessible until
probably 3 to 4 a.m., which is
probably a dumb thing. Just aslong as they don’t call me before
11 a.m. the next day.
Everybody has a learningcurve. Some bands and some
people are unbelievable students
of the game and other ones takea lot longer to learn those same
lessons.
“The guy’s trying to takeadvantage of this expense or
that expense,” or, “He said we’re
not supposed to get this,” or,“There’s no catering,” or, “Things
are really screwed up with
settlement,” or, “Is this a realexpense?” or, “The guy’s Ticket-
master is a lot less than what he
said he sold.”You know, there’s just a million
things. There’s a lot of stuff.
Everybody learns at a differentpace and, hopefully, people will
start catching on. You hope.
What’s your philosophy on
establishing a band from the
ground level up?
A You just want to keep a youngband out touring as much as
possible. They’re going to learn
by touring.Sure, there’s certain clubs, cer-
tain agents, but there is no super,
super baby band way or medium/
middle size band way or larger/
big band way – it’s not like that.
There’s obviously gradualincreases in room size but it’s
a really bad situation when a
band hasn’t toured at all or hasdone three shows when you’ve
picked them up. There’s a certain
amount of homework a bandneeds to do.
There’s been a few bands that
have come up to me and I’vetold them, “You guys don’t need
a booking agent yet. Me being
your booking agent isn’t goingto help you. You need to do the
grassroots – the super grassroots
stuff – like the garage and base-ment shows, and you don’t need
me calling as a booking agent
to say, ‘Hey, can I have my bandplay in your basement?’
“But, keep in touch or, if I have
a show coming through, I’ll try toput you on the bill.”
Did being a former stage
manager help you at all?
A It’s helpful when it comes to
costs. I’ll see an offer sheet andknow how much it costs to do
this, or to hire that. As things get
more complicated with unionsand everything else, being a
club stage manager doesn’t have
that much relevance but in a lotof other aspects, it does – in
running a show, talking to a tour
manager and telling him thatload-in should be around a
certain time or that a set change
shouldn’t take any longer thana certain amount of time.
When was your first arena
show?
A Last year, New Found Glory,
Cox Arena, San Diego.
Was that a new experience
as far as negotiation goes?
A Yeah, as far as different
expenses and different things
to take in. You know, I did my re-search. Hopefully well. Rick
DeVoe, working with Blink-182
and then managing New Found
Glory, has been very helpful.
Rich Egan, being with The Get
Up Kids, Dashboard Confes-sional and then Vagrant Records
with Alkaline Trio and Hot Rod
Circuit, he’s always been veryhelpful and supportive.
What about your contract?
Did you have to do a lot of
revisions at first?
A Oh, it’s constantly being re-
vised. You’ve gotta find peoplewho will help you out. There’s so
much stuff, like keeping your eye
on Ticketmaster, that people cantalk to you about, but it’s through
experience. It’s trial and error
and, hopefully, you don’t botchthings up too much while you’re
learning. You’d hate to think one
of your bands is your “learningexperience.”
But there are, you know?
And all your bands benefit fromall the mistakes you made or
did make, or will make. But, you
know, it’s only a bad mistake ifyou make it twice.
The truth of the matter is,
if myou have managers thatare willing to help you with,
for instance, getting a hold of
contracts or other information
from other artists they have, then,
if you’re a small agent and you’re
working with a manager that hasbigger clients, before they trust
you they’re going to see how
attached the band is to you.Then, after that understanding
is established, they look to help
you out as a business person withcontracts or lawyers or just pieces
of advice.
I would say that, starting out,I didn’t know anything, or know
anybody or who to contact or
who to call and, for some reason,it was a bunch of female agents
that were the most helpful. It was
Eva Alexiou at Fata Booking,Stormy Shepherd (Leave Home
Booking), Robin Taylor at Inland
Empire and Margie (Alban) atDo It Booking. For some reason,
they took mercy on me, helped
me out and gave me phonenumbers and contacts, which
I thank them for greatly.
If somebody wanted to get
into this business, what would
be the first thing you suggest
they do?
A If you wanted to become anagent? Find a bunch of bands you
like. *
DASHBOARD CONFESSIONAL’S Chris Carrabba (2nd from R) gets his first hockey jerseyat his first arena show September 6th at Lowell, Mass.’ Tsongas Arena. Along withAndrew are Dashboard bassist Scott Shoenbeck, MassConcerts’ John Peters andarena GM Craig Gates.