The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 063 Andy Drish

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW

Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show 1 of 27

EPISODE #63: ANDY DRISH

In this episode, Travis talks with an inspirational and successful entrepreneur, Andy Drish. Andy is a

professional speaker, direct response writer, and he is also the co-founder of the The Foundation,

which helps aspiring entrepreneurs start their business and get their entrepreneurial dreams on track.

Travis and Andy shared many valuable insights namely the importance of establishing recurring income

in every business that you create. This would allow entrepreneurs to ensure that your business would

grow despite hardships in troubles in their business. He also emphasizes the value of pre-selling in any

product or service that they create. This ensures the growth of your product and allows the customers

to be part of the development and growth of the product, and in turn earn their trust and confidence with

the entrepreneur. Andy advises business owners in the beginning to focus on their customer and what

problems their customer experience in order to have a successful and lucrative business in the future.

Andy Drish – Using a 4 hour work week model

to build your business

Travis: Hey, it's Travis Lane Jenkins, welcome to episode number 63 of the Entrepreneur's Radio

Show, a production of rock star entrepreneur network. My good friend and co-host Sandra is still

travelling with the NASCAR race team, always get it mixed up, it's Indie or NASCAR, she does both,

but I never know which one she's with. So, it's just me, you, and our guest today. Although I'm super

excited for several reasons. Now, the first reason is, is our guest today is Andy Drish, and he and his

business partner are absolutely brilliant at showing you how to create a business that actually fits the 4-

hour workweek once you set things up properly.

Now this is a pipe dream for most people and I believe that it's a far-fetched dream that very few people

really can attain unless you have a system and someone that's done it, and they can show you step-by-

step, and that's what Andy and his business partner do. Beyond that, Andy is a professional speaker, a

direct response copywriter, and he says his purpose is to unleash the genius already living inside of

you. Really, really sharp guy, fun interview also.

Now, the second reason why I'm so excited is, is we're setting up a recording device on our website,

that you can click on a button and leave a question and we'll answer them for you. It's just basically like

an old voice mail. And so what I want you to do is I want you to start thinking about what are the




challenges or problems that you're having with your business that you like some clarity or help with?

What's keeping you from growing and finding that next level of success that will allow you to reach your

true potential and make a difference? Are you struggling with marketing, staffing, sales, profitability? It

really doesn't matter, any aspect of business.

This is something that I do, I coach business owners and I'm really limited on time and so when we do it

in this format, it allows me to take your questions and answer them in a way that we can help large

numbers of people. Because one of the reasons is businesses tend to have a lot of the same problems,

so if you're having the problem, there's a very good chance that there's a large number of other people

that are having the problem also.

Now also, even if you want to ask a personal question or a business question of me or Sandra, you'll be

able to just leave that voice mail, we'll pick the ones that we feel like are the best and we'll air them,

depending on how many we get in the quality of them, what we'll do is we'll more than likely start airing

them at the end of each episode, or we'll create stand alone episodes and just answer question after

question. So I'm super, super excited. This is the entire reason why we do this show, is to help you

reach your true potential and make a difference through your business.

Now, before we get started, as usual I have a favor to ask you. We're on a mission to get 250

comments on iTunes. So if you enjoy these free podcast that we create for you and you feel like they

bring you value to you and your business, we'd really appreciate it if you just go to the Entrepreneur's

Radio Show, and then click on the iTunes button, and what that'll do is that'll take you to our show on

iTunes. And if you'll just click on the ratings and review, and tell us how you feel about the show, give

us a rating, we'd really appreciate it, it would mean a lot to me. It would help us reach, and instruct, and

inspire more great entrepreneurs like yourself with every guest that we bring on the show. In return, I

will read your review on the air and personally thank you. As a matter of fact, I wanted to do that real

quick to the last couple of reviews that we got. I got one from Richard Krawczyk, Mr. Blueprint, and he

said, "Content-rich podcast." He gave us 5 stars says, “If you're an entrepreneur or desire to become

one, this podcast should be at the top of your list.” Jesse Leighe said, “No hype, just helpful business

information.” He gave us 5 stars also, thank you Jessie, thank you Richard, and he says he likes the

straightforward approach to the podcast, not full of hype like a lot of the other business shows. I won't

go on there other than just to thank you guys, I'm assuming guys. Thanking both of you for leaving the

most recent reviews and we'll continue to update this as we go. So listen, I really, really appreciate it.

Without further ado, I want to go ahead and move to the interview because Andy Drish is such a fun

guy with lots of valuable information. So without further ado welcome to the show Andy.

Andy: Thank you Travis, stoked to be here.

Travis: Yes, how are you my friend?




Andy: I'm doing really, really well today.

Travis: Yeah, I'm super excited to have you on the show. Hey, one of the things, I don't know if you

know, if you've listened to the show much, but one of the things we like to do before we talk about

some of the things that the entrepreneurs teach is we like to get the background of what brought you to

today and how you got your superpowers.

Andy: Great. Well, I didn't get born with any sort of entrepreneurial gene or anything like that, I grew up

in a town of 600 people in Iowa, and long story short, did the whole thing, got good grades, gotten into

a good school like my parents wanted me to do, and spent most of my college trying to start a business

on the side. In 2007, I started getting into blogs because a mentor I had said that if you start a blog I

promise you that you will have a job when you graduate. And I took out a lot of loans for school and

didn't know how I was going to pay them all back. So I started doing that, getting into the social media

world, got a really cool job in Corporate America in like a leadership rotation program except I hate

Corporate America.

Travis: Me too.

Andy: Oh god, it was awful man. And so the entire purpose of taking the job was to quit the job as soon

as I could and I found myself a year in to the job doing this blogging thing and realizing I wasn't any

closer to starting a business and really getting out of Corporate America which is I wanted so badly and

at the time I met my friend Dane Maxwell who's now my business partner and he introduced me to the

world of direct response marketing. And so when all the social media stuff was happening, Facebook's

blowing up and Twitter, and all of that stuff. I was doing all of these trainings in Corporate America, and

outside of it, and I just dropped all of them and started studying direct response marketing. And then I

launched like a membership website in 6 weeks and it did pretty well, it was doing like 6 grand a month

in revenue and then 6 months later it just crashed. And a year later I found myself in corporate America,

again, feeling like I wasn't any closer to leaving. So I ended up negotiating my hours back to part time.

So I worked 3 days a week so I could build a business on the side. Started cold calling real estate

agents and built a marketing company for Realtors based on like 4-hour workweek principles, like I was

kind of telling you about. I did that for a little while, moved to Colorado to Brackenridge, learned how to

snowboard, living like the 4-hour workweek dream, and found myself just super lonely and sad, and just

like lacking a lot of meaning. So, long story short ended up selling that company and then last year

partnered with my friend Dane, and we co-founded The Foundation and launched that, and here we

are.

Travis: One of the things that jumps out at me is how did you manage to build your business in the 4-

hour workweek so quickly, because we talked a little bit before the show and I've built one of my

businesses to that level but it took me years, 15-20 years to get there. So obviously, you've made some




astute observations. What caused you to enable to do that quantum leap to where you could run a

business 4 hours a week?

Andy: Yes. So a few principles that I was committed to with building a business that I would not

negotiate on period, is that I wanted to build a business that had recurring revenue and no accounts

receivable. So building a business with those two assumptions in mind, I was only searching for

business ideas that would fit in to that category. So what I ended up happening was I found this

business online, I think it was called like Ready to Go Newsletters, or I can't remember what it was, it

was some newsletter business. And this guy was selling one newsletter and selling it to a bunch of

people in different cities and this was a business doing between like 5 and 10 million dollars a year and

he just sold one newsletter every month.

Travis: Nice.

Andy: People would pay 50 to 100 bucks a month to get the newsletter. What I didn't realize is he's just

a marketing genius, that's how he was able to do that. So I started cold calling real estate agents being

like, "Hey, this guy's selling newsletters, I'm going to try selling newsletters," and I called Realtors for 6

weeks and after 6 weeks I had sold 1 newsletter for 50 bucks, and I'm like, "This blows!" So eventually,

if people weren't swearing on me or hanging up on me when I was calling them I started asking them

what's working for you and what's not working for you? And I had this lady in Colorado tell me about

this company called From Your Friends, and the From Your Friends model was in real estate, 80% of

business comes from past clients and referrals, and so that company would partner with a local

business, and then the Realtors would give their friends and families some sort of little gift to the local

business. And it would be like, if it's Joe's Steakhouse, they would get like a free appetizer to Joe's

Steakhouse. If you're the Realtor, I'm your friend, you send me his postcard, it says, "Hey, Andy, thanks

for supporting my real estate business. Next time you have a meal at Joe's Steakhouse you'll get a free

appetizer. Just bring this card in with you." And I thought that idea was genius. And so, I started cold

calling Realtors in Des Moines which is where I was living at the time, and I pitched them the idea and

they were like, "Yeah, I will try that." And eventually Trish started charging $50 a month, bumped it up

to $67 a month, and just started growing the business from there, that was the entire model.

Travis: And so, you hit it on the head, the reoccurring income and no payables.

Andy: Yeah, totally.

Travis: It was funny, I was having this conversation with a good friend of mine earlier this morning, and

most business models, you sell something maybe last month. Say you sell a hundred thousand, two

hundred thousand dollars worth of whatever your product or service is and then you go produce it, right.

Andy: Correct.




Travis: And then you're out of work, so you start at zero again.

Andy: Yeah.

Travis: And so it's an ebb and flow type thing whereas the reoccurring is if you sell continuity, meaning

you charge them $67 a month if at the close of the month, you have $20,000 in revenue, well at the

beginning of the month you're starting at $20,000 of revenue and you get to add on to it, right.

Andy: Totally Travis. And I saw that like cyclical, like, I call it like the cycle of death where it's like you

spend a lot of time marketing and then you got a lot of clients and there you're overwhelmed because

you have too many clients, and then you do all the work for them, and then you're stressed because

you don't have any more clients so you spend all your energy marketing. And eventually you can raise

your prices and charge more money and all that stuff, but you're in this like really crazy cycle. And to

me it seems really hard to build a successful business that way. And the people who do are just, they're

just pig-headed and stubborn, and I think it's awesome that they're able to do that. I don't know if I

could've actually built one like that.

Travis: Right. And unfortunately, I built one like that and stuck with that model for 15-18 years, nothing

but front-end sales.

Andy: Yeah.

Travis: And never paying attention to any of the back-end sales stuff.

Andy: Yeah.

Travis: Which is crazy…

Andy: How long did it take you to get to a point where it was consistent enough, where you weren't

struggling?

Travis: We were always; I've always been excessively good at sales.

Andy: Yeah.

Travis: And I trained people around me to do what I did and so we doubled every year for the first 7-8

years.

Andy: Travis, you say it nonchalantly but that's like such an incredible skill set to build for one person,

let alone to train that in others. That's absolutely incredible.

Travis: Well, it was out of necessity, and necessity is the mother of invention.





Travis: And it was really interesting, we ran out of business, and we were sitting up the shop, it was a

home improvement business, and I still own that business, and we didn't have any work. And I had 3 or

4 guys and they were painters, and after a couple of days of this I thought there's no way that I'm going

to sit on my hands and not do anything. And so we went and bought, I didn't have any money at the

time, went and bought 4 walkie-talkies at Sam's wholesale.

Andy: Yeah.

Travis: Created a Mobile 1, Mobile 2, Mobile 3, and Mobile 4. This is our name, and I told the guys, I

said, "Listen, we don't have any work, obviously, but what we can do is I'll pay you $10 for every

appointment that you get, and then you'll also, you schedule an appointment for me, and then you'll

also get to work on the job with me." And so we went from no appointments, to... I wrote a script, and

the script is, "Hi, we're in your neighborhood, we recently completed a project and we're offering a

discount on these seven services. Would you like to schedule a time and have my boss coming in and

visit with you?" And I wanted them to position me as the authority rather than the guy that knocked on

the door, right.

Andy: Totally.

Travis: And so we created a frenzy by letting everyone hear Mobile 1 talking to Mobile 3 and Mobile 4

saying, "Mobile 1 I need to schedule an appointment for 10:30, are you available?" And everybody else

could here that chatter.

Andy: Oh, brilliant!

Travis: Yeah. And so we went from zero appointments today to 14 appointments a day, 6 days a week.

Andy: Well, do you remember what you would close deals at? Like what rate are you closing?

Travis: Oh, I would close, close to 40 to 50%.

Andy: And then what's an average job worth?

Travis: Back then, an average job was probably in the $4,000 range.

Andy: Nice. So you'd spend 150 bucks to get a 4 or 5, well no, a 150 bucks and then 7 appointments

would close at 4 or 5 grand, nice, that's incredible!




You know what, I love hearing marketing stories like that because I think so many of us get so wrapped

up in the internet and we're like, "Oh, we're going to post stuff on Facebook and hope that this flood of

traffic comes." And that's just like straight up awesome, good, solid marketing, I love it man.

Travis: Well you know, it really takes a lot of cojonies to knock on the door, right.

Andy: Oh yeah.

Travis: And do stuff, it wasn't easy. People were complaining, people were trying to run us out the

neighborhood, all of those things. Now, we built that business to a many, many million-dollar business

and everybody loves that story of where it comes from. And we did it that first year, and the next year

come around, and so we were talking, and we said, "Winter's coming up, this is bound to happen again,

we never had to take the walkie talkies out ever again." Because we were so busy with the work from

people that we'd work for that referred us. So it is a great way of how you build a foundation and to

build on it from there. So, anyway.

Andy: I love it.

Travis: Now, you transitioned to your foundation, tell me more about The Foundation, take me down

that road.

Andy: Dude, the foundation I'm so in love with. Here's really where it stems from. Dan and I both

believe the world is simply a better place with more entrepreneurs in it, period. Like entrepreneurs are

the people who experience both sides of the value chain. We're providing value and we're also

consuming value. And I think when you do that you just look at the economy and the world through a

completely different lens. So the world's a better place with more entrepreneurs in it and I think the

thing that stops most entrepreneurs is that they're starting a business with these false beliefs. That they

believe they need a certain amount of money to start a business or they need some brilliant idea to

start a business or some awesome skill set. And none of those things are really true. So our vision with

the foundation is to help a million people get their first customer by 2020 because I think once you get

your first customer in business everything shifts. What you believe about yourself, what you believe

about your product, what you believe about the world, everything shifts. And so we run the foundation,

it's a 6-month incubator for people who want to build software as a service-based companies, software

as a service being software on the internet with recurring revenue. So it allows you a little bit more

freedom. And we spend 6 months working with people really, really intensely, and people start our

program with no idea and then at the end we want to help them get their first 10 customers for their

software product.

Travis: So you say it's a 6-month incubator?




Andy: Yup,

Travis: Process, and so, now what did you say your goals were?

Andy: For the foundation?

Travis: Yes, a million?

Andy: Help a million people get their first customer by 2020.

Travis: Oh, okay.

Andy: And that doesn't mean they have to go through the foundation or take our course, we just

launched the podcast, started from nothing, and we're launching some other stuff that is, we're building

some software right now to help other people in the teaching space. But ultimately that's the place we

want to play.

Travis: So, now what you're teaching is, I want to go a little deeper in this and make sure that I

understand it. So what you're teaching is the entrepreneurs, how to create some type of software

regardless of the niche it's to create residual income?

Andy: Correct.

Travis: Okay, and so, can you go that broad. I think my mind and most people think that software is a

very niched industry. How broad can you get with that?

Andy: What do you mean?

Travis: Well, I think of software as, is it going to be something from my PC or, and how many different

industries, how many different verticals can you get in, how broad is the options or the opportunities to

create those pieces of software?

Andy: Yeah, totally, good question. You know there's a quote by Mark Anderson, I think in Wired, and

he says, "Software is eating the world." And starting a business is nothing more that solving problems

for people, and that's what we're trying to do with software. And I think as more people go online, they

spend more of their time on the computer, the opportunities for software are just expanding more and

more. I'll give you some examples of students who built products in our space. One student, Carl who is

a rock star, he was an engineer at Tesla Motors, he was actually working under Elon for a little while,

and he joined the program. He ended up building a dashboard management software for physical

therapist. So physical therapist who run their practice, there's no good software for them to see how

many people are coming and going, and when are they scheduling, and how much is an average client




worth. So he's building software for that. One of our students is building software for photographers,

she's been a photographer for a long time and wanted a better way of managing her photos and what

she's doing with that. Our star student a year before, Sam Obins built Snapinspect, so he found out that

property inspectors or property managers, when they would go to inspect the property they would take

a digital camera, they would take all of these photos, they would take it back to their office, take the

memory card out, stick it in the computer, bring all the photos up in a word document, reformat all the

photos and then type there notes. And so he built software for the iPad so they can bring an iPad, go to

the property, snap, snap, snap photo, write the notes right there, and then it all gets uploaded to the

cloud and they get these beautiful, little reports. So I think the opportunity for software is just increasing

if anything.

Travis: Ahh okay, okay. So that gives me more clarity of how broad it could be.

Andy: Even one person, we generally focus on like specific niches going to one niche at a time or

whatever. But one person ended up finding, through his idea extraction process that one big pain plan

people have is when women have to change their name when they get married, it's this total legal

hassle. And he created a system, I think its LegallyMrs.com, a simple system for people to do that.

And so really, it goes back to you, we're just solving problems for people, that's really what it comes do

at its core.

Travis: That's brilliant. Does the price point that these guys sell these things for. How dramatic do they

vary?

Andy: Yeah. They vary a lot. And all of that goes back to how big of a pain are you actually solving for

people. One of the great things about software is that it's got the recurring revenue of real estate or any

sort of... Recurring revenue business in the past generally have some sort of large infrastructure to

support. Think like phone companies, utility companies and stuff. And with software you generally have

better margins because you don't have as large of an infrastructure to support. But the guy with a

LegallyMrs company, I think it's 30 bucks a time to change your name, to other people they're charging,

I think Sam's products, the average prize point it's like a $100 to $150 a month per user. And there are

stuff a lot more than that. Dane, my partner, he has a transaction management company and their prize

points again range from like $50 a month up to $400 a month.

Travis: You know what I see from my side and you've probably already keyed in on this is what I see

with a lot of businesses is they have actually built themself a job, right.


http://legallymrs.com/




Travis: And it sounds to me like what you're doing is you're teaching people how to build an asset

rather than build a job.

Andy: Totally.

Travis: Right.

Andy: And that's one of the beautiful parts too.

Travis: Right. Real estate is an asset. I have a building over here, it gives me residual income, passive

income, and we even have a mountain biking accident or something, I'm still going to keep getting paid.

And so, therefore, it's an asset and if I get tired of it I can sell it. Whereas most people are strapped to a

business and they really haven't systemized it taken in to a level to where the business can operate

without them so that's why I consider it a job. And I know that you're keying in on that as well. Do you

agree with my analysis or my perspective on this?

Andy: Completely agree with you, definitely, people are building assets and the beautiful part is that

you can sell it; you can't sell something that is completely dependent on your time. One of the big

differences which I really like about software versus real estate, I had a mastermind this week with 8

guys who were on the real estate space, and the real estate space has been fascinating to me. I've

always been terrified of it because of how much... In my opinion, I think it takes a lot of money to get

started and the commitment of committing to a building like freaks me out a little bit, so I've always

been like hesitant of it. The cool thing about software is that, you know, there's this concept we teach in

the Foundation called pre-selling, and we're seeing more and more of it as business evolves and

there's sites like Kickstarter and Indigogo start popping up. So we have this process that we teach our

members, how to pre-sell their product, so they actually have customers before they ever waste money

hiring a developer, before they ever waste time writing a single line of code. So they can validate that

the idea that they have is one that people will actually pay for. So my hesitation with real estate is

always been like it takes money to get in it and then it just felt really risky to me. And software, they're

still risking everything but I think if you can get customers before you build anything, it mitigates a lot of

that.

Travis: Right. So pre-selling your product, I would assume it's product or it could be service as well,

right.

Andy: Totally.

Travis: So walk me through that, what's the simple outline for that?




Andy: Yeah, the simple outline to pre-sell. So, the first thing is you got to figure out what the offer is.

So, generally what will happen is people will go through... I'll give you our entire framework for the

foundation, it's 5 steps. The first step is idea extraction. So you figure out the market that you want to

serve, who the people that you want to help, and you spend time playing the role of detective, figuring

out where they experience pain in that market. Once you get a clear understanding of the pain and the

problem that we're solve that pain that they have, we tell people to build an info pack. And an info pack

is pretty much like a sales letter at some level. It shows outlines of like wire frames of what the software

will look like. It'll go over the features and benefits. It's like a visual representation of what the software

will actually look like and how it will function. And then third step is pre-selling. And so once you've got

the wire frames built, and an idea of what it'll look like, what you want to do is you want to get like 5 to

10 people on-board with you early, of customers that say, "Yes, I experience is pain." And so you go to

them and you say, "Alright, here's what's up. Here's the problem that you have, here's how I want to

solve it for you. It's going to cost us X amount of dollars to get the first version of this product built. So

let's say that the first version of the product is going to cost 10 grand to build. So we would teach

people to come with an offer that would say, "Alright, we want 10 people to be in this founding

member's program, and if you're in this founding member's program here's what happens. You pay us

a thousand dollars now and then you're going to get lifetime access to the product, you're going to get

my phone numbers, you can call me anytime you have a problem with it. I'm going to help implement

this product with your team so you know exactly how to do it. These are all the benefits you get but

here are the drawbacks. The drawbacks are, one, you have to pay me a thousand dollars upfront. Two,

I want a case study or a testimonial or some sort of, if you're really thrilled with the product I want you to

act as a case study for me. Three, if you have any people, friends that are in this space, I would love a

referral as well, if you're thrilled with what we do. And so you create this offer so that it makes sense for

people to... They get this really great deal for paying you in advance for a product that they know

they're going to want. Does that make sense?

Travis: Oh definitely.

Andy: You're seeing it, it's really cool. Like if you watch it on Kickstarter, people are raising millions of

dollars for products on Kickstarter that don't even exist yet. And this strategy I think people should be

using any time they start a business just to mitigate that risk and just to make sure there's a market for

what they're doing.

Travis: Well, I'm doing something similar, I'm about to start up a mastermind group. I'm going to send a

group of highly skilled business owners through their, in a beta, like a month in advance. And then they

will be mixed in to the groups with everyone, and I'm about to present the offer to a select 10, 20

people. And I'd never thought... This is going to range from par, the absolute lowest we'll sell it for is




9.97 a month. And so it sounds to me like you're saying at least get one month revenue from them and

along with the caveats for them to participate in the group, right.

Andy: Yup, totally.

Travis: And it could apply as well with vetting my mastermind group, right.

Andy: Totally. When I've planned trips like that before, generally not like a grand a month, but say, if

we do... We did a trip a little while back and we had 12 guys come, we rented dirt bikes and ATV's, and

it was like 500 bucks for the trip or something. It's like, "Hey guys, I'm thinking about doing this trip.

Here's what you're going to get if you're going to do it, here are the dates that I'm thinking. If you're

interested, just send me 500 bucks to this address. I'm not sure if it's going to happen or not, if it

doesn't I'll refund your money but if it does, I'll see you there and we're going to have an epic time." And

so, it's just a really easy, simple way of getting people to making sure that you're not going to waste

time or money building something that nobody wants.

Travis: So based on this, I would conclude that you're a fan of writing the sales letter first?

Andy: Always.

Travis: I've seen a lot of people create the product first, and then they're going to create the sales letter

from that. I think there's a big opportunity for an incredible amount of wasted time and effort, because

the clarity that you get as you start selling that is eye opening and your product changes as you start

selling that. Because what you thought everybody wanted is not exactly what everybody wants.

Andy: Exactly, and that's why having these founder member's programs or founding member's

programs are so important because you're not building the product in a vacuum. When you're building

in a vacuum you don't really know what to do and you're just making guesses off of all these

assumptions that may or may not be true. But when you have 10 people who are bought in to

supporting you from the beginning, anytime you have a question or a problem you can go to them, be

like, "Hey, I'm thinking about doing this but what do you think will be best for you?" And what's cool is

it's like a total win-win all the way around because they feel so more attached to the brand and the

product and you as a person because they're going through this creation process with you. And I think

people find a lot of the times that when they do this with their customers, their customers are stoked to

give that support and feedback.

Travis: I like it. So let's transition, what do you think the top 5 things, misconceptions people have, and

you touched on them a little bit earlier on and maybe we can go back to that and you can round out the

top 5. What are the top 5 misconceptions that people have that prevent them from making that move

into entrepreneurship you believe?




Andy: So, in terms of reasons people don't do it, definitely like time, money, credibility. I don't have

enough time to start a business. Carl, the student I told you who is working at Tesla works for 2 hours a

day for 6 months, that's it. He limit his time 2 hours a day, that's it. I don't have enough time, I don't

have money, I have to have money to start a business, but if you pre-sell stuff that's not actually true. I

have to know how to be a developer to start a software company, we get that one a lot. And the truth is

I don't know how to develop, I personally think that...

Travis: What, you don't?

Andy: No.

Travis: Just kidding you.

Andy: And I personally think that if you know how to develop, at some level, it hurts you a little bit

because what happens is that when you get a product idea, your natural inclination is to start

developing.

Travis: Right.

Andy: Is to start actually coding stuff, versus spending time and validating, and playing really the role of

business owner. But honestly, what I think above everything else Travis, is that stumbles people up, is

that they focus on the wrong things at the beginning. They start a business and they believe they need

a logo and a website, and all of this stuff to be "a real business", you know. And personally, I think the

only thing people should be focused on at the beginning is their customer and what problems their

customer experience. And if you just wipe everything else away and purely focus on that, the process

becomes so much more clear.

Travis: Yeah. I liken it to, not that I bake very much but if you don't put items in a cake in a certain

order and treat them a certain way, it's not a cake.


Travis: And so many people think just because you have those 7 ingredients in the bowl you've got a

business and that's wrong. Because if you don't treat those eggs a certain way, if you don't... And so,

what you're talking about is the veracity. Having a clear set of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and you can move

through those with the veracity to get your project to take flight and start monetizing, right.

Andy: Exactly. We launched the foundation last year, it was our first year launching it. Dane had ran a

program similar on his own the year before, and the first thing we did about everything else was write

the sales page, like period. Write the sales page first, we bought the foundation.io like a cheap little

domain name. If you go to the foundation.io you can still see, it is like super basic, it's literally a




headline, a video, and Facebook comments and that's it. And that page was shared like 4,000 times or

something like that.

Travis: Not too shabby.

Andy: Yeah. And after we launched the foundation after we generated revenue, after we proved there's

a model, then we went and bought thefoundation.com and we'd spent money on actually getting a good

website and all this, because we've got the basic model proven first. But focusing on cash flow first is

so, so important.

Travis: Great advance. Tell me about Dan Maxwell, your partner, who's he and what role does he play

in this whole thing?

Andy: Oh, Dane's really the genius behind all of it, so...

Travis: Was it Dan or Dane?

Andy: Dane.

Travis: Oh, okay, I thought it was Dan.

Andy: Nope, Dane Maxwell. He's built 6 software products I think that have all hit the six-figure mark

relatively quickly. Dane's the guy who kind of figured out this process of software of like, starting with

idea extraction and then one of our students came up with the info pack piece and pre-selling piece and

then he understands how to build it much better than I do. He's really the software guy behind it all. We

partnered last year because he had ran it with 80 people or so from like a little interview to see what

would happen and it went over really well. We partnered because I'm much better at strategy and

scaling, and so we went from having 88 people go through it. I think we had a little over 300 last year

who go through it and then this year we're looking to put twelve hundred people in our program.

Travis: Nice.

Andy: So yeah, he knows the software stuff way better than I do.

Travis: So he's the techie side of things and you're the business strategic?

Andy: Not necessarily, Dane's got a really well rounded thing. He understands marketing really, really

well as well. The main difference is Dane's like a bottom-up thinker and I'm a top-down thinker. So his

philosophy is like, "Let's just put everything out there, see what happens and iterate." And my

philosophy is like, "Alright, let's think through like if we're going to launch this in three months and we

want to have twelve hundred people working backwards, what do we have to do." And so it makes it

http://thefoundation.com/




really good balance but we both have spent a lot of time cutting our teeth in marketing and so demand

isn't our number one problem in business. Like giving customers isn't a big problem that we face.

Travis: So I see that you're a numbers-driven guy by some of the questions that you ask early on.

Andy: Yup.

Travis: Like what type of acquisition cost do you have for a client going through a program like that?

Andy: In terms of what does it cost to you to get a client to come through?

1; Yeah, to acquire a new client, what does that cost you?

Andy: Well, not a whole lot last year. We launched, so to share some numbers with you. Last year,

about this time we started with an email list of 200 people, at the end of 3 months we had an email list

of a little over 15,000 people.

Travis: At the end of two months?

Andy: The end of three months.

Travis: Oh, three months, not bad.

Andy: So yeah, 200 people up to 15,000 people, of the 15,000 2,000 applied to join The Foundation, of

the 2,000 that applied, 336 joined. In terms of cost and the internet space we spent about 5 grand on

ads last year and I think that brought us 4 customers who paid 800 bucks a month. So we probably

broke even, made a little bit of money on that, but we didn't spend a lot of money on ads because we

didn't have any money to spend on ads. This year we're going to spend a little more. We did a lot of

promotions and didn't do a lot JB stuff, last year less than 10% of our sales came from JB stuff last

year.

So the reason we have numbers like that is because Dane and I both spend a lot of time studying copy

writing, and we understand conversion pretty well. So if you go to thefoundation.com and watched the

first video, if you just want a really cool lesson on copy writing, one thing I used to do is I'd go to

clickbank.com. Clickbank's like a marketplace for information products, and you can see who the top

selling products are and I would get their sales videos transcribed and then would copy them by hand

and dissect like psychologically what's actually happening. And we spent a little over hundred hours

scripting the video on TheFoundation.com homepage. Our last page was converting at 38% from traffic

to lead and...

Travis: Not bad.


http://www.clickbank.com/





Andy: And we had a 52% engagement rate after 8 minutes of watching the video.

Travis: Nice.

Andy: And so, if you just like watch what's happening psychologically with the text and the video you'll

see some really cool stuff that we do.

Travis: Right. Some subliminal messages like Buy Now, stuff like that.

Andy: Well, not necessarily like the frank current like the Buy Now in the background...

Travis: Take your wallet out and buy now.

Andy: Buy now, and no, more so like what happened was to write that, we would come up with the

script and then I would go to a co-working place with and find somebody who is a perfect customer for

us. I would give them my computer, Dane would read the script to them, I'd sit off the side and I'd watch

their body language as Dane's reading it. And so he's reading this 10-minute script and I'm taking notes

the entire time of like where they tense, where they're on the edge of their seat, where do they look

bored, where are they tuning out, and then I'd go back and ask them questions like what do you

remember and what frustrated you, and what did you think was really cool. And we just did that so often

we got to a point where there's no real break in the script where people can get bored.

Travis: Right. Interesting. Now it seems like you're acquisition cost would be divided by the... So you

take the 5,000 and divide it by the 300 that you converted, right.

Andy: The 5,000, where's the 5,000 coming from?

Travis: Well, you said you'd spent 5,000 on ads and out of those 15,000 on the list you converted, 800

applied and 300 converted, right.

Andy: Yup.

Travis: And so that would be your conversion cost and so you're acquisition cost and so that's pretty

low, I don't have a calculator in front of me, but that's pretty impressive.

Andy: Yeah, it's pretty low. But yeah, like we said, it's different because a lot of it was relationship

based as well. We spent a lot of time making friends and meeting cool people who were bought in to

our vision and mission that we're doing, and they wanted to share what we're doing. So the social

strategy helped a lot. I think we got a little over 8 or 9,000 shares through all of our videos that we put

out for the launch. And so that helped a ton.




Travis: Cool. So let's take and flip this one other direction. So what are the top 5 things, it's like I'm

stuck on the top 5. You got me started on the top 5 so we might as well go down that road here. You've

done so good just extemporaneously talking, taking these things off the top of your head.

What are the top 5 things that people need to know to get a quick start into a new business, or would it

be those 5 things that you had described?

Andy: So, if we're looking... I'm not sure, are your audience mostly online folks?

Travis: Well, it's really a variety of just business owners and so this could be an opportunity for people

to find passive ways to generate income for themselves or their families.

Andy: Cool. So if we'd look at the online space, generally stuff is broken up into three things. You have

traffic, conversion, and fulfillment, those three things. If you look at more tradition, you might break it up

into marketing which would be lead generation, sales, which would be conversion, and then product

which would be fulfillment and then your overhead, and then whatever's left is your profit. Those are

kind of like the areas to focus on I think.

So really if you're looking to get started, three things, traffic, conversion, product. One, where's your

traffic going to come from? Who's going to promote you, are you going to post it on Facebook, are you

going to buy leads? I think the quickest way to get started if you're absolutely starting from nothing,

because that's the name of our podcast, that's generally where we place people who are just getting

started. It's generally relationship-driven. Reaching out to friends and family or people that you know in

a space will help promote you. So focusing on traffic, number two focusing on conversion, so what's

going to look like? Are you going to be closing people on a webinar, are you going to closing people

one-on-one, are you just going to put a sales page that's going to convert people. But you need to

understand like the psychology of selling. And I've been interviewing a lot of people lately, and every

single time, eventually somebody has this like come to Jesus moment where they realize, "Holy crap, I

have to understand sales and marketing." So understanding conversion, marketing, all that jazz, and

then product It could be product or service if you're doing coaching, or web design, or whatever it is.

You have to have a product that's going to match the marketing that you put out into the world.

So those are really like the three things to focus on and I really like that because it makes it a lot

simpler for me when I think about that. When I first started I remember being overwhelmed with tactics.

There's all these places that you can buy ads and get traffic from and there's all these products people

are trying to sell you but ultimately those are the only three things that matter: traffic, conversion, and

product or fulfillment.

Travis: Right. One of things that I noted with a lot of businesses is they traditionally think of three to five

different sources to generate traffic and that's nowhere near enough in this day and age. And so, now




it's best to set-up one stream, refine it, and then get it operating and then rinse and repeat. But you

need to optimize for the 6th source of traffic, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th. And most people don't realize that

depending on what niche or industry that you're in, there could be 30, 40, 50, 60 different sources that

could generate traffic for you.

Andy: Yeah, totally. And I think the biggest thing... I went to Tony Robbins, like business mastery

conference, and one of the biggest things I took away from that is they always look at the life cycle of

the business. And so understanding first, before you focus on your marketing and stuff, where is your

business at in the life cycle of everything.

Travis: The maturity cycle?

Andy: Yeah.

Travis: Okay.

Andy: So, the example he used that really stuck with me, he's like, if you have a newborn, they're like

pissing their pants, that's like an expected problem, that's okay. But if you have an 18-year-old business

and they're having accidents, that's a problem and that's something that needs to be addressed. And

so, it's really understanding where are you at in the life cycle that you should be optimizing. So if you're

right at the beginning, just like you said Travis, focus on one channel, get that converting before moving

on to the next one. But if you're at a point where you're business is a little more established, then you

need to be optimizing for those 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 different channels.

Travis: Yeah. Now the problem is there's a lot of businesses that have been around 15 years and

they've never progressed beyond that 3rd, 4th, or 5th source. They just a reach level to where they stop

growing. And I think it's a derivative of something that you had mentioned earlier, is you said that it can

be a problem if you're a programmer. Well, the reason why it's a problem is because you want to run off

and do some programming, when really, you need to be thinking of strategy.

Andy: Yup, playing the role of business owner, not operator.

Travis: Yeah, strategy is leverage, is getting the impact of many through the efforts of one. And so I

think it's just important to make sure that we drive that point of home of what you're saying there.

Andy: Totally, and one thing that Dane and I keep going back as well, because we're growing this

business pretty quickly and a quote we keep going back to is that, "What you learn to get here won't

take you where you need to go next."

Travis: Right.




Andy: And so everything you learned to get to this point isn't going to get you to the next point. So what

happens is you're in this constant phase of learning and then unlearning and learning again. And so I

think if people get stuck in some level for an extended period of time it's because they stop thinking

about that, like "Oh, we've always done it this way and it's always worked this way."

Travis: Yeah, I agree. I think that's a derivative of Peter Drucker, he says "That the level of thinking

they got you to where you're at today will not get you beyond."

Andy: Yes, that is quote. I'm so glad you told me that because somebody told me and I didn't

remember who said it.

Travis: Yeah. Let's see, we're getting close on time here. Now a couple of questions that I did send to

you because I wanted you to have a little time to plan for them, think them out and so are you ready to

transition to the lightning round?

Andy: I'm totally ready to transition to the lightning round.

Travis: Cool. Before we do, let me ask you if you and Dane were to get in a fight, who would win?

Andy: Oh me, hands down dude. We actually do like a... We threw a big party in Vegas for all of our

top students and then we did a 3-day deep dive with Amir Kelar for the software product we're building.

And one thing we do to, like I grew up wrestling in Iowa and anytime Dane gets too cocky we always

have a wrestling match and it's too easy.

Travis: Chop, chop, chop him down to size, right.

Andy: Dion though, Dion's like our third man and he's scrappy, so...

Travis: Might be marginal with that one, huh.

Andy: Yeah.

Travis: Alright, cool. So, let's see. What book or program made an impact on you related to business

that you'd recommend and why?

Andy: Man, I spend a little bit of time thinking about this because there's so many good books about

business but ultimately, I think, the best stuff that you learn isn't actually strategies and tactics, it goes a

lot deeper into the mindset and the psychological stuff. But one book that's really, really impacted me in

my journey is The Alchemist, have you read The Alchemist?

Travis: Paulo Coelho.

http://amzn.to/Zy0twv




Andy: Yeah. The Alchemist, it is perfect if you are at a point where you're at a transition in your life or

you're at a crossroads where you feel torn between two different directions and you don't know what to

take, this is the book that you need to read. Because what happens for me is when I read that, it

constantly is a reminder to me that I'm exactly where I need to be on my own path. And it is extremely

comforting and inspiring to know that.

Travis: Yeah, he's brilliant, definitely. He's written quite a few books that I'm a fan of.

Andy: Yeah, it has nothing to do with business but it is a book that you will read in probably like 5 hours

because it just sucks you in. You're like, "Oh my god, what's going to happen next?"

Travis: Yeah. Have you read Aleph of his?

Andy: No, I haven't yet, is it good?

Travis: Yeah, oh it's really good.

Andy: Is it?

Travis: Really good.

Andy: His stuff is incredible, and then what's really interesting is his stuff actually led me to Joseph

Campbell's stuff, The Hero's Journey?

Travis: Uh hmm

Andy: And it was just really fascinating reading The Alchemist first, and then Joseph Campbell is the

guy who, he studied all of the great stories of all time. Like from the Bible to the Koran, to like all of

these indigenous cultures who has stories that were passed down from generation to generation. And

he found the patterns in all the stories, and then he creates this framework for the pattern and The

Alchemist follows it to a teeth. The Alchemist follows it, Star Wars follows it, Avatar the movie follows it,

it's just really fascinating to me.

Travis: Yeah, good stuff, I agree. So let's see, what's one of your favorite tools or pieces of technology

that you've recently discovered, if any, that you'd recommend to other business owners.

Andy: Yes, Notesy. I'll send you a link to this, but the thing, I always use notepads on my Mac. Just

bring up a notepad, and I write notes, and then I save it. And what was happening to me is that my

desktop with be flooded with notepads and I would never be able to find them. And Notesy is a really,

really simply way to do that where it keeps them all organized in one place and then it syncs with

Dropbox. So if I'm on my office computer, or my laptop, or my iPad, or my phone, anytime that I'm at, I

http://amzn.to/13JcMW4

http://notesy-app.com/




can bring up my to-do list and add something to it so that it's all in one central location, so I don't have

30 different to-do list floating around on all these different places.

Travis: I love the fact that it synchronizes with Dropbox.

Andy: Yeah, it's awesome, super-simple and, what's that?

Travis: How do you spell that?

Andy: N-O-T-E-S-Y, I think.

Travis: N-O-T-E-S-Y

Andy: Yeah.

Travis: Alright, cool. So what famous quote would best summarize your belief or your attitude in

business?

Andy: The best quote for me is one that's, again, stuck with me for a really long time. It's a little bit

longer, it says, "The master in the art of living makes little distinction between his work and his play, his

labor and his leisure, his mind and his body, his education and his recreation, his love and his religion.

He hardly knows which is which, he simply pursues his vision of excellence at whatever he is doing,

leaving others to decide if he is working or playing because to him he is always doing both." And that

quote I just absolutely love because I remember being in Corporate America and people just

compartmentalizing their life, of like, I'm at work from 8 to 5 and then I go home and that's my playtime.

And to me I've just never felt like, I've always felt work and play are meant to be the same thing. And so

that quote really resonates with me.

Travis: That's brilliant, do you know who that quote's from?

Andy: No, I don't.

Travis: Well you know, I have to tell you Andy, I'm 47 and it's taken me many, many years to get to the

level to where I understand the importance of that. And so I know that you're not as old as I am, so

good on you for having the clarity and to understand the incredible amount of wisdom in that quote.

Andy: Oh man.

Travis: For a lot of us, we have to go through this incredible journey of life, of ups and downs, and

mistakes and adjustments and refinements, before we get the clarity. Because there's so much

succinctness in what was said in that quote, that's brilliant.




Andy: Oh, it's one of those quotes Travis that the first time I heard it, it just hit me and I was like this is

brilliant, I love it, and you're totally right, there's so much wisdom. I just looked it up and it looks like it is

attributed to the late author James Michener.

Travis: I've never heard of him.

Andy: Me neither.

Travis: Makes me want to read some of his stuff.

Andy: Yeah, right, me too.

Travis: Yeah. So something on the lighter side. Do you have any special superpowers that you'd like to

share with us?

Andy: Oh my god, superpowers. Oh, good question. Man, I tell you what, I love asking questions, that

is super fun. And it's funny, to me the answers that you're searching for are actually lie in the questions

that you ask yourself. And so I've just become a student of loving to ask questions of people.

Travis: Well, you know there's something behind that. You've got to read the book Think.

Andy: Think, who's that by?

Travis: Think it is by Walter Russell.

Andy: Okay.

Travis: And he is an absolute genius. And the talks are from the early 1900's and he speaking to IBM.

Andy: Oh really.

Travis: Yes. And he also wrote the book The Man Who Tapped the Secrets of the Universe. And he

explains how you can access infinite wisdom.

Andy: Oh really.

Travis: Yes, and a lot of it stems back to what you're talking about by asking questions and so what's

very interesting about infinite wisdom is if you ask yourself a question and think on it, and write it down,

and refine it, and look for the errors, it opens up a new level of awareness and understanding so that

you can go deeper and ask the next question. And then as you noodle on that and think about that, and

figure out what's missing and what's wrong, it allows you to go to the next level. And both he and

several of some of the most brilliant people, Einstein and all those other incredible people say that




genius is not born, it's something that is accrued through this perpetual effort that is, they associate to

infinite wisdom.

Andy: I love this.

Travis: Yeah, it's really mind-blowing, and now once you read what he has accomplished, this guy has

accomplished the equivalent of 7 full lifetimes of different things. He used to carve incredible statues of

very famous people, he was a musician, he conceptualized the concept of duplexes and it wasn't in the

real estate industry. The guy is just incredibly brilliant, and I've always been fascinated with what

people like him and other brilliant people like Einstein have in common and how were they were able to

come up with the conclusions that they have.

Andy: Yeah.

Travis: And this book Think is so illuminating that it's... I've dog eared all kinds of pages and

highlighted things because I'm going to go back and read and re-read, but I think that you'll find it's

really brilliant.

Andy: Did you like Think better or the secrets of the universe, The man who tapped the secrets of the

Universe.

Travis: Oh yeah, I liked both of them because they're both very different. I read the man who tapped

the secrets of the universe first and it left me so astounded that I just had to read more of his stuff.

Andy: Cool.

Travis: Because the book is written in reverse.

Andy: Well, it's so cool like when you start thinking about the questions thing because what happens to

people is... Say you want to lose weight and the question a person would be like almost unconsciously

asking in their mind, it's like "Why can't I lose weight? Why isn't this working for me?" And when you're

focused on why can't I lose weight versus what do I have to do to feel healthy and energetic and

excited, it shifts everything. And just like this real subtle little way but it's so powerful.

Travis: Yeah, and it's also a dialogue that, one's a useful, helpful dialogue and one's not, right.

Andy: Yeah.

Travis: And so, those things impact you. There's a lot of people that you self-deprecating humor and

other things, and your subconscious doesn't know the difference between words that are jokes and

words that are serious. So you got to be careful what you feed. And so that's why the difference of the




context of those two words matter so much. Because for me, my success has come from being

completely self-taught, I have no formal schooling, a matter of fact I barely made it out of high school, I

was such a terrible student. And at 20 years old I caught a glimpse of me of what I sounded like. I was

trying to talk with a couple of accomplished people older than me and I caught a flash of how ignorant I

sounded in comparison. And I had a holy smokes moment, I thought, "Man, I'm 20 years old. I'm so

clever that I've managed to trick myself out of no education." Right, you know.

Andy: Yeah.

Travis: And so I've used my intelligence to scam myself and scared the daylight out of me because I

thought it might be a lifelong mistake I made. And so fortunately I realized that I could undo that

mistake by reading, and growing, and evolving, and thinking. And I can tell that that's something that

resonates with you also.

Andy: Oh, totally.

Travis: Yeah, good stuff. Listen man, you're absolutely brilliant, I've thoroughly enjoyed having you on

the show.

Andy: Travis, thanks man, time flew on this one.

Travis: Yeah. What's the best way for everyone to connect with you?

Andy: Best way to get a hold of me is [email protected], that is just the simplest way to get

in touch with me via email. And the other thing is we just launched the podcast starting with nothing, the

idea is we wanted to focus on interviewing people who are at that 0 to $10,000 a month in revenue

space, so people can learn lessons from people just getting started really. And that's

thefoundationpodcast.com as well.

Travis: Good stuff, thank you.

Andy: Great stuff.

Travis: Can you hang out a couple of minutes?

Andy: Yeah, definitely.

Travis: Excellent. So listen, I want to remind you guys that you can find all the links to the books and

resources that we mentioned here in the show. We have a show notes section as you know, just go to

DIYOB.com which is the old name of the show, Diamonds in Your Own Backyard, I don't know if you've

heard that story Andy, it's from the acres and acres of diamonds.


http://www.diyob.com/




Andy: No.

Travis: But another great story. A lot of times we think everything we need, everybody owns when

really, when you dig deep enough it's right under your feet. Everything you need is right under your

feet. And so, if you go to DIYOB.com and enter your name and information there, you'll get the 2013

Business Owner's Guide to a Profitable Million Dollar Business. It's a candid behind the scenes look at

what you need to know to grow your business to incredible levels of success. What we tell you on the

guide is critical to your success and no one's talking about many of these issues because it's either not

in their best interest financially, or they just don't know. In the guide we'll cover the 6 most common

misconceptions that are costing most businesses a fortune in this economy. The 5 skills that will

determine the success of your business over the next 18 months, and lots more great information for

taking your business to that next level.

Before we close the show today I'd like to remind you that that little voice that constantly nags you,

trying to tell you to question yourself and your mission, try to talk you out of your dreams, we all have it.

You have it, don't you Andy?

Andy: Oh yeah, I do.

Travis: Yeah, and so I want to encourage you, keep going. I have it, everybody has it. No matter where

you're at as an entrepreneur, or what size your business is, you're an inspiration to those around you

that are watching you to go after their dreams to. So I want to encourage you to keep it up. Now our

quote for today comes from the brilliant Earl Nightingale. And it's really funny that I had picked this

quote out before the interview and it really aligns with what we talked about today Andy, that's kind of

the way things work out.

Andy: It's funny how that works.

Travis: Yeah. So the quote reads, "Whatever we plant in our subconscious mind and nourish with

repetition and emotion will one day become a reality." That's profound, and very true, right.

Andy: So true man.

Travis: Yeah. So listen, in the next episode we're going to connect you to the rock star entrepreneur

Lee LeFever, the founder of Common Craft. Lee is the author of the Art of Explanation, making your

ideas, products, and services easy to understand. His Explanation videos have amassed tens of

millions of views and established the explainer video Industry. So as always there will be more great

advise for growing your business. This is Travis Lane Jenkins signing off for now. Andy can you sing?

Andy: I cannot sing.

http://www.diyob.com/




Travis: I was going to have you try to sing us out or something if you're comfortable with that.

Andy: Adios.

Travis: Happy trails to you. Well, you know I normally have my co-host and I like to throw stuff on her,

she's not here, so...

Andy: Oh, it's too bad.

Travis: Yeah. Listen man, great time, great show, you're an awesome guy, I really appreciate it.

Andy: Thank you man, I had a great time hanging out with you.

Travis: Yeah. Hey guys, to your incredible success, we'll see you on the next show. Take care.

Andy: Later guys.

End of Interview




How We Can Help You

We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called

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As the 'Business Owner' it’s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you’re in the

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This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn’t matter if you are a one-man army, or

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Travis Lane Jenkins

Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist

Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show

“Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

http://www.rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com/biz-accelerator

http://theentrepreneursradioshow.com/

Small Business & Entrepreneurship

The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 063 Andy Drish