The following transcript of

Ted Kucharuk’s interview

on

Memories and Music (broadcast August 7, 1975)

was created by the Sudbury Public Library as part of a

Summer Canada Project

in 1982.

~

SUDBURY P1~LIC LIBRARY "MEMORIES & MUSIC INCO LTD. CICH

ORAL HISTORY PROCRAH .,1'I2l.

INTERVIEWEE: Ted Kucharuk POSITION: Retired Inco E~ployee DATE: INTERVIER: Don MacMillan

WDrid WOA- JL THEME: Second World Har & the emigration from

Experiences lived in Sudbury & Timmins

TAPE NO: 4 TRANS.: Raymonde Lafortune DATE OF TRANS.: Jul y 1982 SUMMER CANADA PROJECT

Poland

!Z1Ac-,"I(.Ar A.

D.M. Now we're going to have a little chat with Mr. Ted~ Ktlehe"ek .

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

-::>

Yes.

And) Ted, incidentally Ted retired from Inco on April the 1st, 1972, and how long had you been with the company when you retiredj Ted?

22 years.

Alright ) Sir, now we know that you've got quite a colourful story to tell, kind of a very interesting story/ Ted, so let's, let's start at the beginn-e -) h

OL_'L~\Qf\ T .K.

ing. Where were you born? Where was your home town? Ioeq. i Y\ -?J . U [1<.01 , ) l My home town was Cloak~ ~n Poland.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

Did you grow up and go to school there?

Yes. I did.

What year were you born ther~ Ted?

1922.

Hell~ the, what are your, some of your earliest memories of growing up there) Ted? What, what'd you do? \.Jhat do kids do in, in Poland? What games did you play in school, and so on ...

T.K. Oh , I was, I liked t o play football ) kicking the

D.M.

T.K.

Soccer •..

Soccer/ yes, and volleyball that, exercises.

~ V-b--s -\,~Q. 0. 1\' f\a~ and p l -s0 in ilschool/,\ you know, how do you call

/

KUCHARUK

D.M. Exercises, eh? \ I I

2 113

T.K. Yes. One hour out of every day, and ~re was a=t:orr±dor;"" wfi-ich children ­when the principal he led them, and then went all principals (who went through countings) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or something like that you know?

D.M. Physical exercises, eh?

T.K. Right. And I was, I was

D.M. You must have done pretty well then . . .

T.K. I was going out and I was, I was the top man, and he hadn't carried out, I was put, I was ...

D.M. Number I at that, eh?

T.K. Yeah. I was, was good at that too.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

_"""l D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

Well very good.

My principal was going in his office, and I was finding it out for the kids.

Hell now, tell me something else about going to school there in, in Poland. What, what'd you do in your, what age would you start to school? About six or 7?

7 years old I started 8~hool; and there was Polish language; and there v~s Ukrainian language; and it was religion one hour a week; and in r e ligion I bel~g to Orthodox religion, u~rainian Orthodox; and then one hour practice on after our schools. They are all old nationality people whom their kids going home; and the Orthodox people stay in the religion lesson for one hour; and every weeks there come Polish Church? ~~· Catholics ~-.~dolescents, and then Herbrew come of~whatever Jewish,

~RD~ <O\M~~ - ) ~W ~OW Wdv£~ ~C~ )

So it- ~)~\ He 0. got a lesson one hour. ~&-frame-wa: 1-lHSJ.7'.k;@-

(J,ll . ~ j,~ fe>.. C~, .~Gt:-f.a-i-~ean ev rybo.dy~a-a.,-g hi..s-sh.a<F , eh?

Yes.

Everybody got a chance j it was no diff~rence nationality) was no difference of religion, I-think;~. - ~VO ( Yeah. ?D(t~ ~ Q~~.tC' Except once the last of --t-R-e-b-oys~ come-Q~ '~t, was very strict against the communist.

Right.

-- - ~------...

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

~~T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T .K.

D.M.

Tell me Ted, did you study any, you wouldn't take any English though, eh?

No. After when I went through with my public school, then I wanted to ~go t6\~hat they call a high-school • .

Yeah. -t~ ~~ or

So I, I think, and they say, · French aWi German.

Right.

So. I don't know. I think it was ~next border clos~ was German, so I took the German language.

Well

It's

Very good.

So that's a few, that's a small reason, I got, I 'al' to ••

This was just because of . . •

Because it was close~5 ~\0 .. ~ border and you know . 0+- +k "a_:tt~ O-rIVVWt ....

Okay. Well we're getting the picture here I think Ted, now what did your father, what'd your father do there then?

Still barbering

He was

Barber in town.

Was he?

I

Still barber, keeping scrubbing for 50 years.

But he's not alive anymore. Is he still live?

No, he' s dead.

D.M. He's dead now.

T.K. He's dead, and buried in Gainsbury, yes.

D.M. In Gainsbury, in Canada, yes.

T.K. In Canada, yes.

D.M. Ah yes. 1.Jell now, here we have you Ted, what about brothers and sisters. Do you have any brothers and sisters?

...J-wO T.K. Oh I have two brothers. I have ~ sisters, down south in Toronto,

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

Grimsby and St. Catherines.

Well are all, all married?

All married, and all living, yes. Educated in Canada.

1.Jell now that's, that's interesting but because I know that the~ar came along Ted. The 1939, you got invaded, Germany took over ha lf of Poland and, Russia the other half. Is that right?

That's right. teenage y

wars That passed 2 ~ yes. In my teenage, in my small

I seen tha t everything. I , L _ ... •

11 K. I :r: see... Wro..\. n~ ~ ~ , You sawall this happen then, eh?~ You were, you were a boy at the time, eh? i),M, I

That's right, just a boy.

D.M. So what literally happened to you, what would be, who were in there first ?the Russians or the Germans? The Russians I guess, eh?

.-;? T .K. Oh yes, the Russians were first, y J e •

D.M. Did they let you continue on to school or anything like that or what?

CVV\d a~ .J:. T.K. Yeah. I was, ~ I start in barbership ~~continue going to school.

D.M.

T.K.

.JL -;; D.M.

T.K.

So you'd cut hai r ('

anybody the Russians orders or anybody in town, eh? I.. '

And then ~ey.!·d· still gO~ school. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Very good. EOv7 inte~ing and then, but I forget the year ." 41 or something ~ the Germans invaded Russia, and, and they took over all of Poland. Is that correct~ Sir?

tOY\ rko~~ili Ilk Yeah, 1941 June the and then we got the

22nd, the Germans drop the bombs en U~ s~a of Russia, generals again.

1 T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

And you were handled pretty roughly by the Germans / Ted.

t t-l did. ~ was ~ bad, yes.

Well you, you told me a little bit about it. Did they not pack up your whole family, and then ship you off in a car to, to Germany?

No. No, the night before the .-t'aJ..i arrest

At the .

The Russian, the Russian take'em into our town in the rink.

Yeah.

And then after general picked'em out

Yeah.

, , A~ that other, he grabbed our people which he got, if anybody left SIv't:iJ. would be killed. That was, sort of put in the caravans ; and then

-;> nobody knows where they take us? and away ~ wdth just our things to take away. Because they are a rai if ~ , eft, that's maybe helping for the Germans, well t Russia~, they took him to Haus{J)I~hd the Russian take him to the I I - ,

5

D.M. I'll be. So where did they, where did they take you, you and the family?

T.K. Yeah. Yeah. They just pop up, and take us out and down the south in Germany.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

Somewhere in the southern part of Ge rmany , eh?

Some, yeah.

And •

:r \NDr 011\ -R;Sti.~d construction.

Were you moved along with your father

All the family, all the fam~l[ .

,\~ (, Always at the same time,~. '

Yeah, all at the same time, yes.

Well I'll be darned. I, I've never ta~d to anybody who'd been through that. So what, what'd you do?

That's how it was.

Did they put you to work then?

Right. Everybody put to work. think it was, you know \ \ \

learn how to run the machine .

o<"~lJ.( Oh about three ftof us, there's about, I

that

Hell we had to ask what in the shelter,

7

~~ working in the machine, the de sel or something like that and we hear that's American come closer, closer ;- ~1fcY we work

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T .K.

D.M.

day to day with them that can come in e.O l-t Y\ ti n

I guess you were just here

We were count, CouTht~urs not only days.

Alright.

eh?

As soon as America come in, out they go. Like General Tousamins army, j I I

a dr iver.

You joined the American 700 as a driver.

Right. Yes. Yeah, I was, I think I was driving trucks because, and after that with Capitaine Colts with the jeep.

Good for you. Good for you. You've been a But .

I got a proof of it too.

,eh?

But your, your father, and sisters, and mother, they lived through all this, eh?

T.K. Yes.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

Okay. (Coughs) Excuse me. What did you do at the end of the war? ~~at did you do?

So we decided to move farther in the West.

Yeah.

So we taking a boat, which my country had a choice to go in a country like the one that broke up.

Yeah.

So first of all. We moved to the Belgium because it was a closer.

Ri&ht. 1" \ \(. A. r0. ~V" V'f\~ Ct:~ to !is tfO-B. J.)7 hGtA a -Pf""I' ~ vY\ \' Y\.e + 0 J \ i v.e..s i VI. Ca.. v\o- n .M. . ~..:~.i.{-

In the coal mine\~F h~r4~ co-operate and U get in touch witH new comers there that was my friend.

D.M. Good.

T.K.

-)

And we decide ~at is the best country and the best place which we can make a club. ' And. ~ere jn --t....fte-e0' ry ~s-:---t ork hard, ear ene-y.

'iNa iesel'- ee ~.

"Y-9> n.M.

Ted I notice you're getting quite sentimental over this, almost in tears over here, I mean I take it that you're very happy that you came to Canada.

I agree.

Well I'm very glad that you did. But now le t 's not go to/ fast now you're loosing me here. Had you had some friends in Canada who told you about it, or had you just heard about it or what?

7

, T.K. Well ju .,., W~ f c'l/,pi ~map .

t from my own educatinn, from the Germa'ns, from the history, and a and that's the , s am tter I sent over him .•. _ eM ,. o",~m~o that

) ~ll S~ life as

. t ~ s no difference Log .M=~~,~that's which is much you have to continue

n.M.

T.K.

n.M.

T.K.

n.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

you are leading a normal life. Can you ...

Okay. Well no~, 'sorry to interrupt Ted, but now we've got you is your father working too? Is he barbing too in, in Belgium at this time?

Yes.

He were.

He would, yes.

And you working in the, the ••

~.Jell I work in coal mine, yes,

In the coal mine the re.

Yes. I. as diesel mechanic.

n.M. Oh yeah. Right. And your sisters were there with you too then, eh?

T.K.

D.H.

T.K.

n.M.

T.K.

n.M.

My sisters were there, yes.

You were pretty glad that you survived the war, you were lucky as a matter of fact, eh?

d Well, when I reak lots of books afterwards, I saw what they did, that just

what I saw, But then I read books which is possibly true, I was surprised we are still a live.

Yes, you, you were lucky that you're alive.

Right.

Well then, so when did you move to, where did the family move to from Belgium?

T.K. Right to Canada to Sudbury I No, it was in Timmins. Pardon me. \

n.M. Oh, to Timmins, eh?

T.K. Of course it 2, 2 brothers was in Tirr@ins.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

! T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

Two of your brothers?

Was in Timmins, ye s.

Oh they had come over here to, to visit, eh?

Just for a little bit, yes.

Now I don't know whether I asked you did I, about how many brOlthers and sisters you had?

2- . b rothers and ~ sisters .

Now had thes e brothers come over just to sort of see what it was like, was that the idea?

8

//h 4,,~ No. No. They just come to live for a year, and take it, and take ma~ 1:icke a- invento,r-)' ~ab,..

l;'JQ..;+ ~or a... ~ And they come to Timmins , eh?

Well that's right. Because the ... country then would be covered with bush, and after the war they found out about down south, and they got business and school it' and so on . .

Now )why did they pick Timmins because there was work there

No, that is the Canadian ~B mbassy, in Belgium, in ~sse1 that's where the~ r C.On-.yr..C...-~ ~ ) the company in Timmins which pick ­ed them.

Well, oh yes that, that figures. Okay, well now I'm interested in how did you come, did you come by boat or did you fly out here?

No, I fly over.

With your father, and mother, and sisters, and everybody flying too?

Oh the whole family, yes.

What year did you fly over here?

1950.

1950.

I stop in London, we was stopped in London because it was railroad somebody stopped in Lopdon, for about - 4 daI s, if or, 5~ and we s t opp ed i n G1as cow in Scotland, in Scotland; and then we come to Hontrea1; and from Montreal we have the C.P. right to Sudbury.

Now were you able to get work right away in Sudbury?

0.A-~1o~ ~ only 2 days ~ g-ee=l;re~an ~ays-I wen~ to work.

Very fine.

Well it's

How about that, eh? That's ...

T.K. My brother had a job at that time too. My brother had no problem to get a job.

D.M. But of course you, you had experience of diesel engines and trucks, eh?

T.K. Well, I don't know what touched me, but I don't know that person that pe rsonal office I come to it, ther's lot of us, and he just take, and me I got no problem, he take me right away.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.H.

T.K.

Well

I went from l 35 kilograms, that's with C.N., put p1~yb~ _ 90 pOlmds, something (li~e that.

b e'tter food h e re. We put you welght .

• • • Oh, he j as-t .

Yeah . ., I

C~a.t....

That's right.

I don't know how many pYr\ds But still, I said we, we give

D.M. Did your father, did he get work too? Did he start barbering here when he came over?

T.K. Right. He did. Yeah .

D.M. How old is he?

T.K. He's got a s. er shop in Grimsby, and he go t a shop now in Toronto with A( I,~ the ~ubway~tha~'s really good. They have a really good pension, old age

/1 n J. ~ ~£ ---::::>p~nslOn, so he Jus.t ~ork part-time to help some,bo ,c;fz _out. /l And my father ~~~~ hls people from 14 mlles from Hamilton to justg\get '~ hair cut. ~lv/rv-,

D.M. Well eh?

T.K. He was spec ial because he loved it • •.

H~ ahad a talent for this, eh? I l;0.e.--vv ~...e. ~ 50 ~ , ~ ;,. 'n-d'i-< 47 ~ O~

Well I guess so. Now , how did he get to Grimsby? How come he got there?

to

Hell somethings they, they know some old persons down there, and they've ~very w~l rec·eved. They 102~ for the farm that's my brot~er-in-1aw. He

win the ticket, and they ~~~~ in BeliguI'l, and the Be1'~: gtim is - J;.r.OITl- I dJv,. 'f ~O'4J hot,U nf1 thQt.f.stlJ ;b~G00 o1:iars~ 60,000 dollars of tickets·oa big ticket you know'Urom

ollEtrs \1\Sv-)~occ~r? Plus extra 1,000 Canadian money, but they don't want to go to home,

..j..

they said, they say: "Come to Canada." And they gave him picture to register. He says : the family too .\ \ • so he pick up the farm in Grimsby, and the Canada .~, , to give money to Canada, and he bought a farm down there, that's what my brother stays there, ' I ~ after that he moved the whole family there .

D.M. Grimsby's a nice part of the country. It's a nice farming area ..

T.K. They like it, Ah, I like it too. But 26 years, 25,26 years over here.

D.M. You get pretty fond of ..

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

And I like I got lots that's why

my other family, I like my cottage, of friends if anybody ask me, and I I'm staying here, and I got a job a

and I got my pleasure with have any brother, little ,~as-oo my pension.

bes.i~

you.

Oh my goodness. Well now then Ted ~we, again we're, we're going just a little bit too fast. So here we have you, started to work in Sudbury with Inco, you got your job, and did you know the English by this time? Did you have to

learn English? How'd you get a~. ~onn~ ?rL Well I start, I ~~a;J~ db~~c~ool j

That's nice.

And that ' s where~he night school, t~-~~l~~~tD-a~~£~~n

and I had to pay for the school, but still,

So, but you're, you're learning this, and it ' s .

and day, after work,

it very easy.

?

T.K.

{ I

Just a year. .wt \ I).R.-

ah I see. Now, okay Sir now~ got you living in Sudbury, working for Inco, did yce . ake ~canadian ways? I mean did you s tart going to hockey games) you fi t into the . . .

~S :r:::- OL- .' ~ Yes. Every . j ':O ined ~~ ;;; .. a@ I belong to the pistol club. edt b, lOM ed to the ., J

~~r~~ization. I belonged to t~~fhurch ,~a~~a~a1, thereJC~ was ~; and I joined, and I he1p~~.. ~~ rt.a..J ..L

D.M. Well good for you. You, you if you could be some help you, you .•.

T.K.

D.M.

If they need help I go. Yes.

~ Very good. Now Ted the, so then~ did you get yourself married?

T.K. Yes I did. I got married yes.

D.H.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

In Belgium before you came over

I vas in Poland when I was married.

Remained in Poland were you?

Yes.

How long had you been before you went over . . .

Oh, I was still too early because we got no choice we love e ach other.

Oh yes. So you, you just the 2 or-no, you had no children then-- ...

~ot'\~ Yes I got. I got ~aughter.

Well where are they and what are they doing now?

Well my so~ eloped my son'!'If~a;~1 6 years in civil court in Hamilton.

.4-9~ h.kiJ'~ ~d..e. !: c..h 00 /) 4 ~ I ~ J _) . AI-h. come back t~!.::rsity. He's finished B.t.A. which hI~~ I 1\

because5he time continue, and then he worked, he was in K~ngston. He's got his own place ) t " ,

D.H. Very good. So he fit right into Canada and Canadian ~YS then, eh?

T.K. 100 percent.

D.M.

D.M.

Right. And how' 'bout your daughter, where is she now? My daughter she's married to a Hr. Michael Lalonde. His father's a do ct:0 rll ~ A ;~~~~~.' a phy~ic_iap , and still got his practice. M to OJ( ax ,:" r :1-~":~ r ~t- ~vI- ".,

Alright, that's ±I: •• •

T.K. i~ft~ ~ia%~t4~keep uPf he's to in Toronto, ~ ~ fI.e

a supervisor q)-W~ ~ff~~

oJ:.-.8oHteth i ng like that I €loft' t kBQ~ V··:> " ,

T.K.

~---:::> D. M.

Ted talking to you I get the impression that your fa~iJY, who saw some very hard times, a nd suffered, and now you're prepar~ to spend some time helping other people, who need to be helped. Is that a fair state­ment?

That's whqt\ ~ like to help because I suffer, and I feel that if anybody broke I ~ help them.

~

Well now I, I, I think that's, a fine, and a very nderstandable thing, and I'm, I'm, it's a pleasure to talk to you Mr. Kucharuk, honest. Now, but I still now, about your wife, is your wife, is she stlll living?

T.K. Yes. She's old but she still lives with me.

D.M. Qh, what does she

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

She help me . with the drugs I must have

so •

It's

Things have worked out pretty well for you then, eh?

I was working 70 hours, 82 hours are good for one week. That's I ~ \

for anybody that wants to work, I was working at Inco, that was broke, and my boss won't step down because he got a pressure from the top, and I correct him, and I was sorry for him, and I was working \ \ \ Because he was the boss: " and why shouldn't I work hard ...

Well he was good to you this boss, eh?

Right.

What was his name?

Oh, I don't know his first name .

His last name then.

~.K ~ . iO. No. I won't give his last name. No.

D.M. You'd rather it be between you, eh? Alright well now Ted you said some­thing about you own a camp or cottage ....

T.K. That's right. Yes.

D.M. Where is it?

T.K. It's 25 miles from Sudbury, 69 Highway, " "and Pickel?

, D.M.

T.K.

Well is it true to say that after some hard time)in your youth, things just started to work out not too badly for you.

Well I work Q-<)

D.H.

T.K.

-) D.H.

~/

T.K.

D.M.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

educated our people there, and they pension up, and there were 80 or some 75, and still say; "Ted, you was so working so hard, and now you're on pension and still working hard I believe •..

What, what are you doing) Ted, now that yo~re on pension?

It's confidential.

Oh I see. One other thing now somebody told me, I got a little not~ ~here before I met you that, that you nearly froze. What happened? ~fuen was that?

That was 1972, April the 1st.

What happened?

~v~ll just as I slide up, I let myself ;'lbwn. You see ' there was: the snow':'plow, and l ,ots qf sno~_, ang 1- come out fr:om t~~ '~s.!= ep~ 7atld,.. was ~, snow~plowed right through . so-:T vlent the road ; an~~ a, spot .o'f · f ce, and tUt£l ~ c;/'f~ T fel1;f\awHt~a"S -as=d:a-"rg7"'aB;zi£bffew-a:m:n~~ >, '

1" put meg ~dA LAp 'i' L -f.e.-\ \ ~ :r. ~ We O~ ou.f- Ovrd I cllJhJ t Oh you got yourself out, you fell down on the ice, eh? ( e. m eVY)~ Y)~ ,

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

ANJ -If.. is At aesst i~ was, did you say in '72 in the winter was this.

That's right.

Was this . . .

April the 1st.

D.M. April 1st was it? _.A '+ t > T, K.. . "]:1- w ov~ 3 b..e.. lo ..v ) ctr£,f j r..;{.c .... T.K. About · 4, 4 . and a half hours. ~ n v I"

D.M. And, when you came to

T .K. It was 3 days ' .

D.M. The third day ?

T.K. The third day and I opened my eye, and my wife just look for a moment, to look at me, and I was all swelle~, my face and my hands, and every- . ~_ thing, and my wife walk and say: You know who you are? " And I :)..ook 1i~TV'IL whJo

D.M.

T.K.

and I 8-Qe..say wen ,sa dticiilg a " . dt..:d J G.1Jp \\ ' tin'VI l'lca C(..~ She says: "No." she said, "You're in the hospital." "tfuat am I doing in the hospital?" And the doctor he say, he says; "That's enough. Now take her out." Then I see the bottles.

Yeah.

Then I fell asleep.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

D.M.

T.K.

-~ D.M.

Of course that's an amazing experience but you've

That time--but the snow trees was snow water~, just blue sky and some nice flowers, grass and flowers. No trees, just miles and miles of grass and flowers That's one thing that I remember.

This, what you're saying then is that almost fre f zing to death ...

I was.

Has a, was a, was so pleasant, if that's the word, eh? That, that. ,\ .

Like 7~ . ~ie becaus~ you just fell asleep and you don't know, that's it, you don' t~'Ufler Ylo~~i;' I don't know why they val "'fi:1' save m? I don't know. That's what I mean.

Are you, I guess you're pretty good when you're out walking on ice now, eh?

Well now I'm very careful,:H: hs !'Iaf&. '

Q{'(.( Il.... a..(uiL Well friends, our guest today has been Hr. Ted Kuchevek. Hr. Kuche:ve·k has told us quite a story about growing up in Poland, about being over-run by the Russians, and later by the Germans, and having his entire family shipped off to Germany, later moving to Belgium, finally deciding that Canada was probably the country that they'd like best in the world, and Ted has told us that they have never changed their mind about th~t. Ted retired on April the 1st, 1972, after 22 years with Inco. Ted, thank-you very much for being our guest onl'1e.ffiories& Husic.

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