Terry Casey IN THE UNITED STATES ... - Moritz College of Lawmoritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/documents/Lib2712.pdf · EASTERN DIVISION - - - Libertarian Party of Ohio, : et

Terry Casey

Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO

EASTERN DIVISION

- - -

Libertarian Party of Ohio, :

et al., :

:

Plaintiffs, : Case No. 2:13-CV-00953

: Judge Watson

: Magistrate Judge Kemp

Robert Hart, et al., :

:

Intervenor-Plaintiffs. :

:

vs. :

:

Jon Husted, in his Official :

Capacity as Secretary of :

State, :

:

Defendant, :

:

The State of Ohio, :

:

Intervenor-Defendant. :

:

and :

:

Gregory A. Felsoci, :

:

Intervenor-Defendant. :

- - -

DEPOSITION

of Terry Casey, taken before me, Carolyn M. Burke, a

Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public in

and for the State of Ohio, at Zeiger Tigges & Little,

LLP, 3500 Huntington Center, 41 South High Street,

Columbus, Ohio, on Thursday, August 28, 2014, at

2:03 p.m.

Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 1 of 229 PAGEID #: 6208

Terry Casey


2

1 APPEARANCES:

2 Mr. Mark R. Brown, Esq. Capital University Law School

3 303 East Broad Street Columbus, Ohio 43215

4 And

5 Kafantaris Law Offices

6 By Mr. Mark G. Kafantaris, Esq. 625 City Park Avenue

7 Columbus, Ohio 43206

8 On behalf of the Plaintiffs.

9 Mike DeWine, Ohio Attorney General By Ms. Bridget C. Coontz, Esq.

10 Assistant Section Chief Ms. Halli Watson, Esq.

11 Assistant Attorney General Constitutional Offices Section

12 30 East Broad Street, 16th Floor Columbus, Ohio 43215

13 On behalf of Secretary of State Jon

14 Husted.

15 Zeiger Tigges & Little, LLP By Mr. John W. Zeiger, Esq.

16 Mr. Steven W. Tigges, Esq. 3500 Huntington Center

17 41 South High Street Columbus, Ohio 43215

18 On behalf of Gregory A. Felsoci and Terry

19 Casey.

20 ALSO PRESENT:

21 Mr. Brian Finch.

22 - - -

23

24


Terry Casey


3

1 Thursday Afternoon Session,

2 August 28, 2014.

3 - - -

4 STIPULATIONS

5 It is stipulated by and among counsel for the

6 respective parties that the deposition of Terry

7 Casey, a witness called by the Plaintiffs under the

8 applicable Rules of Civil Procedure, may be reduced

9 to writing in stenotypy by the Notary, whose notes

10 thereafter may be transcribed out of the presence of

11 the witness; and that proof of the official character

12 and qualification of the Notary is waived.

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14

15

16

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24


Terry Casey


4

1 INDEX

2 - - -

3 WITNESS PAGE

4 Terry Casey

Cross-Examination by Mr. Brown 6

5 - - -

6 CASEY DEPOSITION EXHIBITS IDENTIFIED

7 1 - E-mail from J. Zeiger; May 16, 2014; 26

8 Subject: Confidential

9 2 - Protest Challenging the 41

Certification of, and the

10 Declarations of Candidacy and

Petitions filed on Behalf of Joint

11 Candidates Charles R. Earl and

Sherry L. Clark, dated February 21,

12 2014

13 3 - Protest Challenging the 42

Certification of, and the

14 Declaration of Candidacy and

Petitions Filed on Behalf of

15 Candidate Steven R. Linnabary,

dated February 21, 2014

16 4 - E-mail from [email protected]; 55

17 February 18, 2014;

Subject: Re: Protest

18 5 - Text messages 56

19 6 - E-mail from M. Damschroder; 62

20 February 27, 2014; no subject


February 28, 2014; no subject


23 March 3, 2014; no subject

24


Terry Casey


5

1 INDEX (Continued)

2 - - -

3 CASEY DEPOSITION EXHIBITS IDENTIFIED

4 9 - E-mail from J. Husted; April 23, 93

2014; Subject: Re: Sixth Circuit,

5 Libertarian Court Hearing Late

Tuesday

6 10 - E-mail from T. Casey; May 1, 2014; 98

7 Subject: Dispatch: Libertarians

Remain off Oh. Ballot

8 11 - E-mail from B. Smith; March 6, 2014; 102

9 Subject: Re: March 4, 2014 Final

Transcript

10 12 - E-mail from B. Smith; March 7, 2014; 106

11 Subject: Re: my Evans thoughts

12 - - -

13

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15

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20

21

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24


Terry Casey


6

1 TERRY CASEY

2 being by me first duly sworn, as hereinafter

3 certified, deposes and says as follows:

4 CROSS-EXAMINATION

5 By Mr. Brown:

6 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Casey. My name is

7 Mark Brown. I'm the lawyer for the Libertarian Party

8 of Ohio and also Kevin Knedler, Aaron Harris, and

9 Charlie Earl in a case, a federal case, the

10 Libertarian Party of Ohio against Husted, No. 13-953

11 in federal court. Are you familiar with that case,

12 by chance, Mr. Casey?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. I also represented Charlie Earl and his

15 running mate, Sherry Clark, in an administrative

16 protest in front of the Secretary of State which was

17 filed on February 21st, 2014, with the decision

18 handed down on March 7th, 2014. Are you familiar

19 with that protest action?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. I think I may have seen you at the

22 hearing, you may have seen me, so that may be how we

23 kind of inadvertently met at some point.

24 Could you state your full name for the


Terry Casey


7

1 record, Mr. Casey, and I know it's fairly easy to

2 spell, but you may just want to go ahead and spell

3 it, too, just for the reporter.

4 A. My name is Terry L. Casey. First name

5 T-e-r-r-y. Last name C-a-s-e-y.

6 Q. Have you ever been deposed before,

7 Mr. Casey?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. How many times?

10 A. At least once, maybe two or three other

11 times.

12 Q. Do you happen to remember when?

13 A. Not exactly.

14 Q. And the reason I ask is just because if

15 you've been deposed, you're familiar with the rules,

16 but maybe I should refresh you quickly about the

17 rules of a deposition just to make sure that we

18 understand each other.

19 You do understand that when you respond,

20 you need to respond orally with a "yes" or a "no" or

21 some oral explanation. Nods and shakes won't do it

22 because the reporter can't get that down. Do you

23 understand that?

24 A. Yes.


Terry Casey


8

1 Q. Do you also understand that you are to

2 answer my questions to the best of your ability, even

3 if your attorney objects. Unless your attorney

4 instructs you not to answer, you still need to go

5 ahead and answer the question. Do you understand

6 that?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Of course, you understand that you're

9 under oath and subject to the penalties of

10 perjury; is that correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. I'm not sure how long this is going to

13 last, so if you need a break or anything during the

14 deposition, please let me know, we'll take a break.

15 If I have asked you a question, however, if you can

16 answer the question before we take that break. Do

17 you understand that?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. What is your occupation, Mr. Casey?

20 A. Self-employed.

21 Q. What is it you do?

22 A. Political consulting and research.

23 Q. So do you have clients?

24 A. Yes.


Terry Casey


9

1 Q. Who are your clients?

2 A. You mean right now?

3 Q. Yes, right now. Then we'll talk about

4 the past here in a minute.

5 A. There's a county commissioner in

6 Tuscarawas County, there's a county commissioner in

7 Lawrence County, done some things with Summit County

8 Republican Party I'm working on right now.

9 Q. Is the Ohio Republican Party, by chance,

10 one of your clients?

11 A. Not now.

12 Q. Has it been in the past?

13 A. In the past, some distance, but not

14 currently.

15 Q. You don't know how long ago that was; do

16 you remember by chance?

17 A. Maybe a year and a half ago, two years

18 ago.

19 Q. How about the Franklin County Republican

20 Party, is that one of your clients?

21 A. Not in the recent decade or two.

22 Q. So it's been over a decade since the

23 Franklin County Republican Party was a client?

24 A. Probably.


Terry Casey


10

1 Q. Do you have any statewide officeholders

2 as clients presently?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Have you had any statewide officeholders

5 as clients in the past?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Can you name them, please?

8 A. I did some things in 2010 for Kasich and

9 Dave Yost. Do you want farther back than that?

10 Q. No. That's fine. Are those the only two

11 statewide officeholders?

12 A. In recent time.

13 Q. Is it correct that you're no longer

14 working with Kasich -- is it Kasich or Kasich? I'm

15 sorry.

16 A. I'm sorry. What was the question again?

17 Q. You're no longer with Kasich; is that

18 correct?

19 A. Not right now, no.

20 Q. When did you stop working with Kasich?

21 A. It was back in October of 2010.

22 Q. And Yost, was it about the same time that

23 you stopped working with Yost?

24 A. Yes.


Terry Casey


11

1 Q. Before you became self-employed, what did

2 you do?

3 A. I was Executive Director of the Franklin

4 County Republican Party.

5 Q. And what years were you the Executive

6 Director of the Franklin County Republican Party?

7 A. 1979 to 1983 -- wait a minute -- 1993.

8 Q. Okay. Did you happen to hold another job

9 at the same time you were the Executive Director of

10 the Franklin County Republican Party?

11 A. I was on the Franklin County Board of

12 Elections.

13 Q. Do you happen to remember the years?

14 A. 1979 to 1993.

15 Q. Are you presently an officeholder in

16 Ohio?

17 A. An officeholder?

18 Q. Any public office, are you on a public

19 board of directors or --

20 A. I'm not an elected officeholder. Is that

21 the question?

22 Q. Any officeholder at all; appointed,

23 elected.

24 A. I'm on a state board, but I'm not an


Terry Casey


12

1 officeholder.

2 Q. What state board are you on?

3 A. State Board of Personnel Review.

4 Q. How long have you been on that board?

5 A. Since January 2011.

6 Q. How were you appointed to the board?

7 A. Per statute, was appointed by the

8 Governor, approved by the State Senate.

9 Q. And the Governor was Kasich; is that

10 correct?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. Are you affiliated with any party in

13 Ohio?

14 A. I'm a Republican.

15 Q. Do you presently hold any position in the

16 Ohio Republican Party?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Do you presently hold any position in the

19 Franklin County Republican Party?

20 A. I might have been at one time, I'm not

21 sure whether I am part of the executive committee

22 which is a two- or three-hundred person number, but I

23 don't know whether I'm still on that or not. It's

24 kind of an honorary thing.


Terry Casey


13

1 Q. How long have you done that?

2 A. Probably since 1977.

3 Q. Are you an advisor of any sort to the

4 Kasich campaign presently?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Were you an advisor of any sort to the

7 Kasich campaign after October 2010?

8 A. Not what I would consider an advisor, no.

9 Q. Do you communicate with the Kasich

10 campaign in any way presently?

11 A. I know lots of people politically, so I

12 probably, in some way or another, see or communicate

13 with people.

14 Q. Do you communicate personally with John

15 Kasich?

16 A. Communicate with him? Nothing recently.

17 Q. Do you happen to remember when the last

18 time you did communicate with John Kasich was?

19 A. My guess is maybe a year and a half ago.

20 Q. Do you happen to remember what you talked

21 about, what you communicated about?

22 A. Just general stuff.

23 Q. Election stuff, by chance?

24 A. No, not election stuff.


Terry Casey


14

1 Q. Have you ever communicated with John

2 Kasich about the Ohio Libertarian Party?

3 A. No.

4 Q. I know you said you were a political

5 consultant and had worked with Kasich before. Were

6 you an advisor to Kasich when you were also his

7 consultant?

8 A. I'm not sure I understand the question or

9 the difference.

10 Q. I'm not sure what a consultant does.

11 What does a consultant do?

12 A. Depends what's needed for the candidate.

13 Sometimes you're designing a direct mail piece;

14 sometimes you're doing a recorded phone call.

15 Q. Does a consultant also advise in any way?

16 A. Sometimes, if they ask.

17 Q. Were you paid as a consultant by Kasich?

18 A. When?

19 Q. I believe you said that it was in

20 October 2010 that you ceased being a consultant with

21 John Kasich. Were you paid while you were a

22 consultant up till October 2010?

23 A. I did a special project on debate

24 preparation in September and October of 2010.


Terry Casey


15

1 Q. And were you paid by John Kasich's

2 campaign?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Do you remember how much you were paid?

5 A. 4,200 to 4,600. Somewhere in that range.

6 Q. How long did it take you to do that

7 project?

8 A. I was working on it in August and

9 September and October.

10 Q. So approximately three months?

11 A. Approximately.

12 Q. Do you know Mike DeWine?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. How do you know Mike DeWine?

15 A. I think I first met him in '89 when he

16 was running for Governor.

17 Q. Do you communicate with Mike DeWine

18 presently?

19 A. No.

20 Q. When was the last time you communicated

21 with Mike DeWine?

22 A. Probably sometime October of 2010.

23 Q. Do you happen to remember what you talked

24 about?


Terry Casey


16

1 A. I was on a call with the Summit County

2 Republican Chairman and him, I think it was either

3 about commercials by the opponent or other things

4 that were happening in general, politically.

5 Q. Have you ever talked to Mike DeWine about

6 the Ohio Libertarian Party?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Have you ever consulted with Mike DeWine?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Have you recently spoken to anyone in the

11 John Kasich campaign?

12 MR. TIGGES: What do you mean by

13 "recently"? This week? This year?

14 Q. Since January 1st, 2014, have you

15 communicated with anybody in the John Kasich for

16 Governor campaign?

17 A. I've seen people around at social events,

18 I've sometimes sent out general e-mails about

19 political issues, or, in doing TV shows, might have

20 asked for background information.

21 Q. And some of those e-mails would go to

22 people in the Kasich campaign?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Is the Kasich campaign on your e-mail


Terry Casey


17

1 list?

2 A. I don't have an e-mail list, per se.

3 Q. When you say you send out general

4 e-mails, do you just type in the individual addresses

5 of everyone who is going to receive that e-mail?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Do you have a -- is there a faster way to

8 include names that you send your e-mails to?

9 A. If I'm going to send an e-mail to

10 somebody, I might start to type their name and then

11 it will, you know, if it's a Mike, there will be a

12 whole bunch of Mikes that come up, or Bobs, or Johns,

13 and see which ones . . .

14 Q. So you have to individually pick them

15 out; is that correct?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And my question is, I just want to know,

18 a lot of people have lists that they can just type in

19 the name of the list and everybody in that list will

20 go.

21 A. No. Don't have that.

22 Q. We have that at Capital. For example,

23 with faculty, I can just type in "faculty" and it

24 will go to a long list of faculty members.


Terry Casey


18

1 A. I don't have that.

2 Q. Do you know Matt Borges?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. How do you know Matt Borges?

5 A. From different campaign things over the

6 years.

7 Q. How long have you known Matt Borges?

8 A. Kind of vaguely goes back to, I forget

9 whatever year Deters was State Treasurer and was

10 going to run for AG or something. I can't remember

11 whether that's 10 years ago, 14, 16, 8.

12 Q. So it's been a number of years; is that

13 correct?

14 A. On and off, yes.

15 Q. Do you ever communicate with Matt Borges,

16 let's say since January 1st, 2014, do you communicate

17 with Matt Borges?

18 A. Sometimes I've sent him copies of

19 clippings of general political interest or things

20 either doing or getting ready to do on TV shows.

21 Q. Are all of your communications with

22 Mr. Borges by e-mail?

23 A. I probably talked to him a few times on

24 the phone. Sometimes I've seen him at social


Terry Casey


19

1 functions and waved or something like that.

2 Q. Approximately, do you know how many times

3 you've talked to him by phone or in person since

4 January 1st, 2014?

5 A. I don't know. I'd have to guess. I

6 don't want to guess.

7 Q. More than a hundred?

8 A. Oh, no. No.

9 Q. Less than a hundred?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Less than 50, do you think?

12 A. Probably less than 50.

13 Q. Do you happen to remember the last time

14 you spoke with Matt Borges in person or on telephone?

15 A. I think Saturday, was at a social

16 function, and saw him over at the distance and waved,

17 but didn't talk to him.

18 Q. Did you happen to come to the federal

19 court proceeding on March 17th, 2014, when Mr. Borges

20 testified?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Mr. Casey, is your lawyer here with you

23 today?

24 A. Yes.


Terry Casey


20

1 Q. And who is that?

2 A. Mr. Tigges and Mr. Zeiger.

3 Q. Did you happen to discuss with them your

4 deposition before you came in today?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Did you discuss with anyone your

7 deposition before coming in today?

8 A. Not in any detail, no.

9 Q. Just in passing?

10 A. Yeah, just, like, to my wife; do a

11 deposition.

12 Q. Is there anyone else besides your wife?

13 Do you remember?

14 A. I mean, just some social friends, that

15 kind of thing, but nothing of substance.

16 Q. When did you hire Mr. Tigges and

17 Mr. Zeiger?

18 A. I first called them sometime in February

19 of this year.

20 Q. Have you, in the past, retained

21 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?

22 A. I've worked with them, yes.

23 Q. So they've been your lawyers in different

24 matters in the past?


Terry Casey


21

1 A. Either my lawyer or people I was working

2 with.

3 Q. Do you happen to remember the last time,

4 before you hired them in February, the last time you

5 retained Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?

6 A. I know I was involved in an Etna Township

7 thing this spring that Mr. Zeiger was involved in and

8 I was involved in.

9 There was, I'm trying to think, probably

10 was 2008, as I roughly recall, there was a thing for

11 Steve Stivers on a post-election potential recount

12 issue that I was involved in with Mr. Zeiger and

13 other attorneys in his firm.

14 Q. Did you pay them to represent you in that

15 case?

16 A. Did I? No.

17 Q. Do you know who did?

18 A. Which one?

19 Q. The previous case you just described

20 involving Mr. Stivers; Steve Stivers.

21 A. I don't remember offhand the exact

22 entity, but I think it was -- I mean, it wasn't me

23 personally, but I don't know whether it was Stivers'

24 Committee or some other committee, I don't remember


Terry Casey


22

1 the exact details.

2 Q. So it might have been the Stivers

3 campaign committee or something like that?

4 A. That's possible.

5 Q. Would it have been the Ohio Republican

6 Party?

7 A. I'm not totally sure. I don't remember.

8 Q. Could it have been the Franklin County

9 Republican Party?

10 A. I don't think so.

11 Q. Are there any other instances where you

12 would work with Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges before the

13 Stivers campaign?

14 A. There were some things, but I don't

15 remember exactly or whether they were that official

16 or as detailed as this or that.

17 Q. How long does your relationship with

18 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges stretch into the past?

19 A. Mr. Tigges, relatively recently.

20 Mr. Zeiger, I think I knew way back in

21 the days when I was a student at Ohio State and he

22 was a student at Ohio State.

23 MR. TIGGES: Dark ages.

24 Q. And would you say that Mr. Zeiger has


Terry Casey


23

1 represented you on numerous occasions?

2 A. I wouldn't use the word "numerous."

3 Depends what you mean by "numerous."

4 Q. More than 10?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Less than 10?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Over the course of the years?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Why did you select Mr. Zeiger and

11 Mr. Tigges to represent you in this present case?

12 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.

13 A. They're both very good attorneys.

14 Q. Were they recommended to you?

15 A. No.

16 Q. I believe you testified that it was

17 February this year that you retained Mr. Zeiger and

18 Mr. Tigges; is that correct?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Do you happen to remember the day?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Would it have been early February?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Middle February?


Terry Casey


24

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. So approximately given that February is

3 usually 28 days, February 14?

4 A. Somewhere thereabouts. I was out of the

5 country until midday on February 10th, so it would

6 have been sometime after that.

7 Q. And for what purpose did you retain

8 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?

9 A. To look at legal questions on the filings

10 and other ancillary things related to petitions and

11 signatures.

12 Q. Did you retain Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges

13 to handle the protest against Charlie Earl?

14 A. I initially didn't know whether there was

15 legal grounds for a protest.

16 Q. But eventually, of course, there was a

17 protest filed; is that correct?

18 A. That's my understanding.

19 Q. To your knowledge.

20 And once the protest was filed, did you

21 retain Mr. Tigges and Mr. Zeiger to handle that

22 protest?

23 A. Could you restate that? I'm sorry.

24 Q. Once the protest was filed, was it your


Terry Casey


25

1 understanding that Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges, your

2 attorneys, were going to handle that protest as

3 lawyers?

4 A. That was the assumption. If you file

5 something, normally you follow through on it.

6 Q. Were you the named protestor in that

7 matter?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Do you know who was?

10 A. Some gentleman, Felsoci, I think is the

11 name.

12 Q. Why was Mr. Felsoci named as a protestor

13 and not you?

14 A. Because legally, under Ohio law, somebody

15 who is a member of the Libertarian Party needed to be

16 the filing individual.

17 Q. Was Mr. Felsoci paying Mr. Zeiger and

18 Mr. Tigges?

19 A. Not to my knowledge.

20 Q. Were Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges, to your

21 knowledge, being paid?

22 A. You say on what part of -- could you

23 restate the question? I'm sorry.

24 Q. To your knowledge were Mr. Zeiger and


Terry Casey


26

1 Mr. Tigges being paid to handle the protest?

2 A. I assume they will be paid, yes.

3 Q. You say "will be paid."

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. That means they have not been paid

6 anything yet.


8 Q. Is it your testimony that you have not

9 paid Mr. Tigges and Mr. Zeiger anything?

10 A. That's correct.

11 Q. Have you agreed to pay Mr. Zeiger and

12 Mr. Tigges anything?

13 A. I've said I would work on trying to raise

14 some money, but haven't paid them anything.

15 Q. Who are you going to raise the money

16 from?

17 A. Interested parties that are supportive.

18 Q. Have you received any invoices or bills

19 from Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?

20 A. I've seen, I think, a couple invoices.

21 Q. And what did you do with those invoices?

22 A. Put them in my file.

23 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)

24 Q. Mr. Casey, I've placed before you


Terry Casey


27

1 Exhibit 1, and I believe it's an e-mail from John

2 Zeiger to you, dated March 16th, 2014, at

3 5:17 p.m.; is that correct?

4 A. That's what it says. You say 5:16 or 17?

5 Q. I said 5:17. May 16, 5:17 p.m. Do you

6 recognize that e-mail?

7 A. Not in this exact format because when it

8 comes on my computer it looks different than this.

9 Q. But did you receive an e-mail with that

10 same text from Mr. Zeiger?

11 A. It's very possible. I don't remember

12 every e-mail that I get because I get lots of them.

13 Q. Do you usually pay your bills on time?

14 A. I don't remember that the bill said it

15 was immediate and due.

16 Q. So this e-mail says to you: "Terry,

17 enclosed is our statement for services relating to

18 the Sixth Circuit appeal. The invoice also outlines

19 the balance due on our earlier statement dated

20 April 3." So does that mean you've received now at

21 least two statements, one April 3rd, and one May

22 16th --


24 Q. -- 2014?


Terry Casey


28

1 A. What are we talking about? This is

2 May 16th.

3 Q. This e-mail is dated May 16th, but it

4 also says "Enclosed is our statement for services

5 relating to the Sixth Circuit appeal. The invoice

6 also outlines the balance due on our earlier

7 statement dated April 3." So you received an earlier

8 statement on April 3rd from Mr. Zeiger; is that

9 correct?

10 A. That's probable. I don't remember exact

11 details.

12 Q. And then you received the second invoice

13 on May 16th; is that correct?

14 A. I assume so, yes.

15 Q. And Mr. Zeiger says to you that he "would

16 appreciate payment at your earliest opportunity"; is

17 that correct?

18 A. That's what it says.

19 Q. Did you pay him at your earliest

20 opportunity?

21 A. Not yet.

22 Q. Did you pay him for the April 3rd invoice

23 at your earliest opportunity?

24 A. No payments were made to my knowledge.


Terry Casey


29

1 Q. How much was the invoice for April 3rd?

2 A. I don't remember off the top of my head.

3 Q. Do you have a copy of that invoice?

4 A. I don't have it with me, no.

5 Q. Can you see that we get a copy of it?

6 MR. TIGGES: You can make a request and

7 we'll respond to it, but the response will be an

8 objection. What's your next question?

9 MR. BROWN: Steve, I'd appreciate it if

10 you wouldn't testify for your witness.

11 MR. TIGGES: I didn't testify. It's not

12 appropriate to ask him for documents. You direct the

13 request to counsel; you know that.

14 Q. Do you have a copy of the invoice for

15 May 16th, 2014?

16 A. I probably do somewhere in my files.

17 Q. You do understand that we can access

18 those documents by subpoena?

19 A. I'm not sure what you can do or not do.

20 Q. Do you know what the invoice amount was

21 for the May 16th invoice described in this e-mail?

22 A. I don't remember off the top of my head.

23 Q. So it's your testimony you don't know how

24 much you owe Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges.


Terry Casey


30


2 Q. And it's your testimony that you have

3 never paid Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges.

4 A. That is correct.

5 Q. Are you being paid by anyone to act as a

6 an agent in this protest?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Mr. Casey, I believe you said there are

9 interested persons and interested parties that you

10 will find support from for this protest; is that

11 correct?

12 A. That's my hope.

13 Q. Who are these interested persons and

14 interested parties?

15 A. I haven't started contacting anybody.

16 Q. Who are you going to contact?

17 A. Probably different people that I've known

18 over the years politically.

19 Q. Can you identify them?

20 A. I haven't sat down and figured out a

21 list.

22 Q. Obviously, you've got somebody in mind;

23 isn't that correct?

24 A. I don't know whether somebody, but I've


Terry Casey


31

1 been involved in politics for 45 years, and there's

2 people I've known that are interested in some of the

3 things that came out in the hearing that you were at

4 on that day at the Secretary of State's office.

5 Q. Do you have a bank account?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Do you ever write checks on that bank

8 account?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Have you written any checks on that bank

11 account to Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Have you ever delivered, to Mr. Tigges or

14 Mr. Zeiger, cash --

15 A. No.

16 Q. -- since January 1st, 2014?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Have you made any electronic transfers to

19 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges since January 1st, 2014?

20 A. No.

21 Q. You do realize that the Court ordered

22 your attorneys to disclose your identity in this

23 case; is that correct?

24 A. I'm not sure of the exact details.


Terry Casey


32

1 Q. And your attorneys identified you as

2 their client in this case; you understand that?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. How much money do you make each year,

5 Mr. Casey?

6 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Relevance.

7 Do not answer that question.

8 MR. BROWN: Are you instructing your

9 client not to answer that question?

10 MR. TIGGES: I am.

11 MR. BROWN: We can call Judge Kemp right

12 now.

13 MR. TIGGES: Call him if you want, but

14 that's private and personal, and you've got no right

15 to inquire of him that.

16 MR. BROWN: We'll stay on the record for

17 a second here, Carolyn.

18 Q. (By Mr. Brown) What is your net worth,

19 Mr. Casey?

20 MR. TIGGES: Same objection. Same

21 instruction.

22 Q. Can you afford to hire Mr. Zeiger and

23 Mr. Tigges, Mr. Casey?

24 A. Can I afford to hire them?


Terry Casey


33

1 Q. Yes.

2 A. I'm not sure I understand your question.

3 Q. Do you have the resources to pay

4 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges for their services?

5 A. You talking personally or --

6 Q. Yes, personally.

7 A. I can hire them if I wanted to, sure.

8 Q. Have you received money from anyone to

9 assist you in paying Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Are you going to receive money from

12 anyone?

13 A. I don't know.

14 Q. Did anyone ask you to retain Mr. Zeiger

15 and Mr. Tigges?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Did you discuss the retention of

18 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges with anyone before hiring

19 them?

20 A. Tell me that question again.

21 Q. Did you discuss hiring Mr. Tigges and

22 Mr. Zeiger with anyone before retaining them?

23 A. I might have chatted with just different

24 people I know that I thought they were good attorneys


Terry Casey


34

1 and that there were significant questions raised, but

2 I don't remember exactly who, but I just remember

3 chatting in general that the things that came out

4 initially in this, particularly what the Democrat

5 Party was doing, I thought was rather shocking and

6 bad.

7 Q. Who were those people you discussed this

8 with?

9 A. I don't remember each name.

10 Q. Do you remember any of the names?

11 A. I'm not totally sure because I got back

12 from being out of town that week and was doing a

13 couple TV -- did three different TV shows that week,

14 and I remember catching up with a lot of people

15 politically and this is one of the kind of topics out

16 there. So I don't remember exactly with whom I

17 chatted about what.

18 Q. Was anyone you talked to affiliated with

19 the Ohio Republican Party?

20 A. "Affiliated," you mean a Republican or,

21 like, the Chairman?

22 Q. Being a Republican, yes.

23 A. There were -- I mean, a lot of people I

24 talk to are Republican, but not the Chairman of the


Terry Casey


35

1 Republican Party.

2 Q. Any of the individuals you discussed

3 about retaining Zeiger and Tigges, were they with the

4 Ohio Republican Party?

5 A. Again, there's the Chairman of the

6 Republican Party and I'm almost certain I didn't chat

7 with him. There's people who, and I'm not sure their

8 state of involvement with the Republican Party,

9 whether -- and I don't know whether it was that week

10 or later, like a Jo Ann Davidson, who is on the State

11 Central Committee and formerly on the Republican

12 National Committee.

13 Q. I'm sorry. What's that name again?

14 A. Jo Ann Davidson.

15 Q. How do you spell the last name?

16 D-a-v-i-d-s-o-n; is that correct?

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. Anyone else in addition to Ms. Davidson?

19 A. There were other folks politically, but I

20 don't remember exact conversations might have had on

21 this and other topics.

22 Q. Anyone else?

23 A. Right now that's what I remember. It was

24 a busy week coming back that week.


Terry Casey


36

1 Q. So this would have been roughly around

2 February 14th --

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. -- 2014; is that correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And so, you just took it upon yourself to

7 hire Mr. Tigges and Mr. Zeiger; is that correct?

8 A. Well, I wanted them to evaluate some of

9 the information, whether or not there was legal

10 substance there potentially to do a protest filing.

11 Q. Do you happen to know when the protest

12 was actually filed?

13 A. I don't -- it was sometime later in

14 February, but I don't remember the exact date.

15 Q. Would February 21st sound about right to

16 you?

17 A. Yeah, about right.

18 Q. Did you, on February 17th, notify Matt

19 Damschroder that you were going to file a protest

20 against Charlie Earl?

21 A. My recollection is somewhere in that time

22 frame, I might have mentioned to -- I don't know

23 whether it was by phone or by e-mail that I mentioned

24 to Matt that there were significant questions


Terry Casey


37

1 regarding the filings. So I don't remember the exact

2 detail, but either by phone and/or e-mail I kind of

3 mentioned that there were questions that came up.

4 Q. Why did you mention that to Matt

5 Damschroder?

6 A. Because I've known Matt for a long time

7 and he's knowledgeable politically and, again, I was

8 probably talking to Matt that week because I was

9 catching up from being out of the country for a

10 number of weeks, and I was getting ready to do three

11 different TV shows that weekend.

12 Q. What does Matt Damschroder do? Do you

13 know?

14 A. He works for the Secretary of State, and

15 I don't know the exact title, but he's kind of the

16 operational person on election issues in the

17 Secretary of State's office.

18 Q. He's the Chief Elections Officer; is that

19 correct?

20 A. I don't know the exact title, but . . .

21 Q. Why did you communicate with Matthew

22 Damschroder?

23 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Asked and

24 answered. You just asked him that question two


Terry Casey


38

1 minutes ago.

2 MR. BROWN: Well, he can answer it again.

3 MR. TIGGES: Why don't you read back the

4 last answer, Carolyn, please, the question and

5 answer.

6 (Record read.)

7 Q. Why do you think Mr. Damschroder wanted

8 to hear what you were going to do? Why do you think

9 Mr. Damschroder would want to hear that you were

10 going to file a protest?

11 MR. TIGGES: Object to form. No

12 foundation.

13 Answer if you can.

14 A. Okay. Just ask me the question one more

15 time so I make sure I understand what you're -- how

16 it's different from the previous question.

17 Q. Sure. I believe you testified that you

18 told Mr. Damschroder, because you were catching up,

19 and my question is why do you think that

20 Mr. Damschroder would want to hear that you were

21 going to file a protest?

22 MR. TIGGES: Same objection.

23 A. I think probably the first thing I asked

24 about, again I was trying to catch up, I had either


Terry Casey


39

1 read or heard about other Libertarian candidates, I

2 think for Secretary of State, State Treasurer, State

3 Auditor that had been disqualified or were going to

4 be disqualified or were short.

5 And I remember some point in that period

6 asking him some of the mechanics, like, where were

7 the petitions at, were they still in Columbus or

8 whether they were out in the counties. So part of it

9 I was asking about some mechanics of if one needed to

10 see some documents to check and verify on signatures.

11 Q. Do you happen to know what Matt

12 Damschroder's political party affiliation is?

13 A. Republican.

14 Q. Do you know Brooke Bodney?

15 A. I don't know her. I've heard the name.

16 Q. What do you know of Brooke Bodney?

17 A. I think she's done fundraising.

18 Q. Do you know who she does fundraising for?

19 A. I'm not sure who all of her clients are

20 or have been.

21 Q. Have you communicated with Brooke Bodney

22 since, let's say, January 1st, 2014?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Did you communicate with Brooke Bodney on


Terry Casey


40

1 August 18th, 2014?

2 A. August 18th? I haven't talk to her,

3 known her, anything. Maybe I met her once in 2010,

4 but I haven't had any communications, anything that I

5 know of in years.

6 Q. Is Brooke Bodney one of the interested

7 persons that you're going to ask for money to pay

8 your lawyers?

9 A. I don't really know her, so I probably

10 wouldn't call her.

11 Q. Since January 1st, 2014, have you

12 received $10,000 or more from anyone?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Who?

15 A. I'm a state employee, so I get a check in

16 that way. There's a campaign in Perry Township on a

17 JEDZ.

18 Q. I'm sorry?

19 A. There was a campaign in Perry Township,

20 which is in Franklin County, on a JEDZ tax issue --

21 well, I'm not sure whether that was over 10,000 or

22 whether it was -- I don't remember the exact amount,

23 but I did work, this spring, on a Perry Township tax

24 issue against a JEDZ, but I don't remember the exact


Terry Casey


41

1 amount, but it could have been around that amount, it

2 could have been a little less, could have been

3 slightly more, I don't know.

4 Q. Are there any others?

5 A. I don't remember the exact amount, but

6 there were some billings from the Summit County

7 Republican Party on things I did last year, and we

8 kind of completed and caught up the payments on that,

9 and that could have been around that amount. I don't

10 know exactly how much it's totaled up to. I've done

11 other things for them this year.

12 Q. Are there any others?

13 A. At the 10,000 or more level?

14 Q. Yes.

15 A. Not that I can recall right now.

16 Q. Since January 1st, 2014?

17 A. Not that I can recall.

18 Q. When Mr. Felsoci filed his protest, did

19 you happen to read it?

20 A. Yes.


22 Q. Mr. Casey, in front of you is a copy of

23 the Felsoci protest. I believe it's marked Exhibit

24 2. Is this a copy of the protest that you read?


Terry Casey


42

1 A. It looks familiar. I haven't looked

2 through all the pages to know that it's exactly

3 precisely that, but it looks in general like what

4 I've seen before.

5 Q. Do you know Carl Akers?

6 A. Who?

7 Q. Carl Akers.

8 A. The name's kind of familiar, but refresh

9 my memory and maybe it will -- I don't know the

10 person, but the name distantly sounds familiar.


12 Q. I've placed in front of you Exhibit 3, I

13 believe it's numbered, and this is a February 21st,

14 2014, protest against Steven Linnabary by Carl Akers,

15 Carl Michael Akers. Have you seen this protest

16 before?

17 A. I think I remember seeing something along

18 this line.

19 Q. Does that refresh your memory of Carl

20 Makers -- Carl Akers?

21 A. I'm guessing now, but I think he was

22 testifying on something at the Secretary of State's

23 hearing back in late February or early March. I'm

24 guessing that's the same person. There was somebody


Terry Casey


43

1 testifying, I remember, but I don't remember exactly

2 the name.

3 Q. Was he a protestor challenging Steven

4 Linnabary? Do you remember?

5 A. That sounds familiar, but I can't testify

6 with certainty.

7 Q. Did you know Mr. Akers before filing the

8 protest?

9 A. Other than seeing him that one time, I've

10 never seen him before or after, and I have no

11 knowledge or information about him.

12 Q. If you look at the last page of the

13 filing.

14 A. Page 5?

15 Q. Page 5, yes. I apologize, I thought the

16 lawyer's name was on it. Do you happen to know who

17 represented Mr. Akers?

18 A. I remember seeing him standing there, but

19 I can't remember names or I don't remember ever

20 seeing or hearing them prior to that or afterwards.

21 Q. Did you arrange for the representation of

22 Mr. Akers in this case?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Do you know who did?


Terry Casey


44

1 A. I don't know with certainty, no.

2 Q. Do you have any ideas?

3 A. I don't know.

4 Q. I believe you said you had no idea with

5 any certainty, which suggests maybe you got some

6 ideas.

7 A. Well, I could offer a guess, but I'd

8 rather not testify to guesses.

9 Q. Why not?

10 A. Because I'm under oath, under penalty of

11 law, and guessing and speculation aren't good to do.

12 Q. As long as you say it's a guess.

13 A. Well, I --

14 MR. TIGGES: Mr. Brown, I don't want to

15 have to go through the issue with your facial

16 expressions that are disrespectful to the witness.

17 Please don't do it.

18 MR. BROWN: I move to strike Mr. Tigges'

19 comments.

20 MR. KAFANTARIS: And I would also put in

21 the record that I have not seen any facial

22 expressions by Mr. Brown towards the witness.

23 MR. TIGGES: Well, since you're looking

24 at me and not him, that's what I would expect.


Terry Casey


45

1 MR. BROWN: Steve, let it go.

2 I move to strike Mr. Tigges' comments.

3 Let the record reflect that I've made no facial

4 expressions towards the witness or anyone else.

5 MR. ZEIGER: Let the record reflect I've

6 been watching Mr. Brown and, in fact, he did make a

7 facial expression toward the witness.

8 MR. KAFANTARIS: I guess I'll direct my

9 attention to you.

10 MR. BROWN: Can we go off the record?

11 (Discussion off the record.)

12 MR. ZEIGER: Professor Brown wants to

13 make statements off the record that are

14 inappropriate. Let's have them on the record,

15 please.

16 MR. BROWN: And my statement to

17 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges is I'm asking them to cease

18 interrupting the deposition and accusing me of making

19 facial expressions at anyone. This is not the first

20 time it's happened. It's unseemly, it's

21 unprofessional, and I am asking them to cease.

22 MR. TIGGES: You may not know you're

23 doing it. I don't know. But you have a habit of

24 making expressions of disbelief towards the


Terry Casey


46

1 witnesses. I've seen it repeatedly. You can ask the

2 witness if he's seen it if you want. All I ask is

3 you not do that.

4 MR. BROWN: Steve, I'm not going to argue

5 with you.

6 MR. TIGGES: Treat the witness with the

7 appropriate respect. That's all.

8 MR. BROWN: Steve, I've brought witnesses

9 with me this time, so you're not going to get away

10 with this nonsense. Let's just move on and get this

11 deposition done and then we can all go home.

12 MR. TIGGES: I've asked you to conduct

13 yourself appropriately, Mark. That's all I'm asking.

14 MR. BROWN: Steve, I'm asking the same of

15 you.

16 MR. TIGGES: And I will.

17 MR. BROWN: Well, we'll see if you do.

18 Q. (By Mr. Brown) Mr. Casey, we're back.

19 And I believe we left off talking about Carl Akers.

20 And my question to you is whether you know who

21 represented Mr. Akers. I believe you said you did

22 not.

23 A. I mean, I saw them standing there, but I

24 don't remember their names or anything else.


Terry Casey


47

1 Q. And then my question to you was: Do you

2 know who paid Mr. Akers' lawyers?

3 A. No.

4 Q. And then my question to you was: You

5 have no idea?

6 A. I'm sorry?

7 Q. My question to you was: You have no idea

8 who paid Mr. Akers' lawyers?


10 A. I don't know who paid them or hired them.

11 Q. Did you approach Mr. Zeiger and

12 Mr. Tigges about representing Mr. Akers?

13 A. I don't remember any discussions. I

14 don't even know who Mr. Akers is, so I guess I

15 couldn't have.

16 Q. Did you hire Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges to

17 represent anybody who might protest Steven Linnabary?

18 A. No, because I was focused on these

19 questions and issues.

20 Q. Why were you focused on Charlie Earl?


22 Go ahead and answer if you can.

23 A. I wasn't focused just on Mr. Earl.

24 Q. Who were you focused on?


Terry Casey


48

1 A. The bigger focus and question in my mind

2 is what the Ohio Democrat Party and their top agents

3 were doing.

4 Q. Why did you challenge Mr. Earl?

5 A. Because Mr. Earl seemed to be a

6 beneficiary of what they were doing.

7 Q. Is there anything wrong with what the

8 Democrats were doing?

9 A. I didn't know. That's why I wanted to,

10 when I saw the filed Form 14's, it raised a big

11 question of Ian James, Don McTigue, his law partner,

12 and how they were involved with the Libertarian

13 Party.

14 Q. Why did you want to remain secret,

15 Mr. Casey?

16 A. I don't know that I chose to remain

17 secret, but . . .

18 Q. Your lawyers refused to disclose your

19 identity for a long time. Do you know why?

20 A. I don't know.

21 Q. Would you have just as well been

22 disclosed?

23 A. I'm sorry?

24 Q. Would it have been your decision to


Terry Casey


49

1 disclose your identity, is that what you wanted?

2 A. We never discussed it.

3 Q. How did you contact Mr. Felsoci?

4 A. By telephone.

5 Q. Do you remember when you called him?

6 A. Been sometime in mid to late February.

7 Q. What did you say to Mr. Felsoci?

8 A. I'm trying to remember roughly, but it

9 was something to the effect of that I understood he

10 was a member or had voted as a Libertarian Party

11 member, and there were questions on the petitions of

12 the Libertarians, and especially what the Democrat

13 Party was doing, and that in order to make sure that

14 it was fully examined, there needed to be a protest

15 filed with the Secretary of State's office.

16 Q. How did you get Mr. Felsoci's phone

17 number?

18 A. One or two people -- or, I don't know

19 which person it was, but gave me a name, because I

20 was, in that period, contacting some people in Lucas

21 County, Summit County, Franklin County, and other

22 political people if they knew people who had been

23 Libertarian, had voted Libertarian who might be party

24 to a protest.


Terry Casey


50

1 Q. How did you contact these people?

2 A. By telephone usually. I might have sent

3 an e-mail out.

4 Q. Did you send an e-mail out, by chance?

5 A. I don't recall offhand.

6 Q. Do you know if you sent an e-mail to John

7 Musca?

8 A. I don't have his e-mail so I couldn't

9 have sent him an e-mail, at least I don't think I do.

10 I don't recall.

11 Q. What would your e-mail have said?


13 You can answer the question if you

14 understand what's been asked of you.

15 A. I'm not sure what it said. And, again, I

16 don't know how much of the looking as to a potential

17 Libertarian, I don't know how much was done by e-mail

18 or how much was done by phone.

19 Q. Would your e-mail, that you sent out to

20 various people, have mentioned Oscar Hatchett?


22 A. I don't remember whether either verbally

23 or e-mail. I know Oscar Hatchett was very much on my

24 mind because his involvement and the signatures


Terry Casey


51

1 raised big questions.

2 Q. How did you know Oscar Hatchett was a

3 circulator for Mr. Earl and Mr. Linnabary?

4 A. Looked over the petitions.

5 Q. How did you get those petitions?

6 A. I don't know whether I got them from the

7 Secretary of State or somebody else politically had

8 them and that I had looked at.

9 Q. So you saw Hatchett's name on the

10 petition; is that correct?

11 A. Well, as I recall, he had got a huge

12 number of signatures, and I remember doing some

13 Googling on Oscar Hatchett Jr., because there's an

14 Oscar Hatchett the father and then there's the person

15 who got the signatures, Oscar Hatchett Jr., and when

16 I did some Googling, big red flags came up.

17 Q. What were the red flags that came up?

18 A. One of the searches indicated he was a

19 professional petition circulator, available for hire.

20 Another related, I think, to Pennsylvania and some

21 conviction for some sexual offense. There was

22 something, I think, on the Attorney General's website

23 that indicated he was a registered sex offender of

24 some type. So it was things like that.


Terry Casey


52

1 Q. Did you print that out off your computer?

2 A. I believe so, yes.

3 Q. Did you send that by e-mail to anyone?

4 A. I could have sent it to some folks, and I

5 also sent it to the attorneys and they did some

6 searching, too, on Mr. Hatchett.

7 Q. Did you communicate with Matthew

8 Damschroder about Oscar Hatchett?

9 A. He could have been one of the persons I

10 sent a copy of those documents to.

11 Q. Did you ask Mr. Damschroder to do a

12 background check on Mr. Hatchett?

13 A. I don't know whether I used that term or

14 not, but . . .

15 Q. But you did ask him to do some kind of

16 check on Oscar Hatchett; is that correct?

17 A. I don't remember exactly what I said to

18 him, either in e-mail or verbally, but Oscar Hatchett

19 Jr., as I said, was a big red flag of why this guy

20 was involved and doing what he was doing.

21 Q. Did you ask or instruct anybody at the

22 Secretary of State's office to do a background check

23 on Oscar Hatchett?



Terry Casey


53

1 A. I don't think I asked anybody to do a

2 background check.

3 Q. Did you ask anyone to do any kind of

4 check on Oscar Hatchett?

5 A. I think I might have asked the question,

6 in Matt's recollection, I also ask of our attorneys,

7 whether or not somebody being a registered sex

8 offender would prohibit them from circulating

9 petitions or being a paid circulator.

10 Q. I'm sorry. I'm deaf in one ear. Did you

11 say you asked Matt to do that?

12 A. No. I asked a number of people the

13 question of whether there was anything statutorily

14 that prohibited a registered sex offender from being

15 a circulator of petitions.

16 Q. Did you ask Matthew Damschroder that?

17 A. I might have indicated that was a

18 question. I don't know whether I -- he's obviously

19 not an attorney.

20 Q. Do you know Brandi Seskes?

21 A. Name doesn't ring a bell.

22 Q. I believe I asked you earlier if, on

23 February 17th, 2014, you contacted Matt Damschroder

24 and told him that you were going to file a protest;


Terry Casey


54

1 is that correct?

2 MR. TIGGES: The question is whether you

3 asked him that previously?

4 Q. Did I ask you that previously, yes.

5 MR. TIGGES: Yes, you did ask that

6 previously.

7 MR. BROWN: Steve, let him answer, okay?


9 A. Okay. Tell me the question again.

10 Q. Did I ask you previously whether you

11 contacted Matt Damschroder, on February 17th, about

12 filing a protest?

13 A. I'm not sure whether you asked me that

14 question or not. You've asked me so many questions.

15 It's hard for me to play back which ones you've

16 asked.

17 Q. Did you contact Matt Damschroder, on

18 February 17th, about filing a protest?


20 answered.

21 A. At some point in that period, I mentioned

22 to Mike we were -- or, to Matt, we were looking at

23 doing some kind of thing like that. So I don't

24 remember the exact wording or what was said.


Terry Casey


55

1 Q. Would it have been on February 17th,

2 2014?


4 A. I don't remember the exact date.


6 Q. I've placed in front of you, Mr. Casey,

7 Exhibit 4. If you look at the top you'll see it is

8 an e-mail involving Matt Damschroder. And if you

9 look down below the redacted portion you'll see

10 "Thanks!!"

11 And then on Monday, February 17th, 2014,

12 at 11:15 p.m. Matt Damschroder wrote "Also, got a

13 call tonight that a protest is likely to come by

14 Friday against Earl, probably from an unaffiliated

15 voter...." Would Mr. Damschroder have been referring

16 to you as the source of that call?


18 A. I don't know. I mean, it doesn't look

19 like anything I sent him, but I don't know what basis

20 he had that or who he talked to.

21 Q. Were you likely the one who made that

22 phone call?

23 A. I don't know.



Terry Casey


56


2 Exhibit 5, and it's a collection of text messages,

3 and I ask if you'll look at the very bottom on the

4 page on the right you'll see there's actually some

5 numbers. 0076, do you see that number on the very

6 bottom?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And then over on the bottom of the next

9 page, 0077.

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. Do you see those numbers? I'm asking you

12 to look at the text of the message on 0076. It says

13 to Terry Casey, Monday, February 17th, 8:07 p.m. Did

14 you send this text message to Matt Damschroder?

15 A. You're looking at this first page here?

16 Q. First page, yes, sir, Mr. Casey.

17 A. I'm not familiar with this format of

18 texting. It sounds like it says to Terry Casey and

19 then it's got some message here. So I don't know

20 whether that's something Matt was sending to me, I

21 don't know.

22 Q. Did you receive that from Matthew

23 Damschroder?

24 A. I don't remember.


Terry Casey


57

1 Q. Do you have a cell phone?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Did you have an iPhone?

4 A. I have an iPhone.

5 Q. Do you know how to text off that iPhone?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. These are actually, I think, screenshots

8 from Matthew Damschroder's iPhone. Does

9 Mr. Damschroder take classes in the evening? Do you

10 know?

11 A. I know, at times, he's been working on a

12 master's in public administration.

13 Q. If you look at the next page, 0077,

14 you'll see off to the right there at the bottom,

15 "I'll call after class." Is that something you would

16 send to Mr. Damschroder or is that something

17 Mr. Damschroder would send to you?

18 A. It might have been him saying that he'd

19 call after class.

20 Q. And if that's true, then the message on

21 the left would be from you to Mr. Damschroder; is

22 that correct?

23 A. I don't know. I'm not familiar with this

24 set up. I mean, I know if I hit my computer, you


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1 know, in one color it's got what I'm sending and

2 another color what I'm receiving, but as I'm looking

3 at it right now, I don't know.

4 Q. So you don't remember anything about a

5 message to or from Mr. Damschroder involving the

6 McTigue law firm and 828k dollars to Chris Redfern?

7 A. I'm sorry, the question is do I remember?

8 Q. Do you know anything about that?

9 A. Well, I remember there being some

10 questions around that time on McTigue's law firm and

11 money, some Citizens for Liberty or whatever. I

12 remember there were some questions of that.

13 Q. Does that not refresh your memory in

14 regard to whether you sent this message to Matt

15 Damschroder?

16 A. It's possible I sent it, but, again, I

17 don't know from the format because it doesn't look

18 like how I see it on my phone.

19 Q. Do you see at the very top, right above

20 the message, it says Monday, February 17, 8:07 p.m.?

21 A. I see that, yes.

22 Q. Would that indicate that this message was

23 sent on Monday, February 17th at 8:07 p.m.?

24 A. I don't know. I'm not an expert in text


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1 messages and how these copies are formatted.

2 Q. If you look at the next page, 0077, you

3 see it says to Terry Casey. "Any time tonight to

4 discuss plus other issues and questions?? Thanks!

5 Terry." Did you send that to Matt Damschroder?

6 A. I don't remember off the top of my head,

7 because I, in the course of a year, literally

8 thousands of e-mails, texts, and everything like

9 that.

10 Q. Do you think Mr. Damschroder sent that to

11 you?

12 A. The "Any time tonight to discuss," do I

13 think he sent that?

14 Q. Yes.

15 A. Just looking at this, if this is correct,

16 it's probably something maybe I sent, I don't know.

17 Q. Then if you look at the next page, 0078,

18 halfway down the page it says Friday, February 21,

19 4:41 p.m. "Checking to find out if a protest was

20 filed against the Libertarian Party candidate for

21 AG??" Did you send that to Matt Damschroder?

22 A. It's possible. I remember around that

23 time I was curious whether anything had been filed by

24 any other candidates.


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1 Q. Why were you curious?

2 A. Just interested to see if there was going

3 to be a protest filed.

4 Q. Did you ever tell Matt Damschroder that

5 you were responsible for hiring Steve Tigges and John

6 Zeiger?

7 A. It's possible I could have mentioned that

8 I had talked to Mr. Zeiger and his law firm about

9 this.

10 Q. Did you ever tell him that you had hired

11 them to represent Gregory Felsoci in the protest?

12 A. I don't remember ever saying anything

13 exactly that way, but I could have discussed, in

14 general, Zeiger's potential involvement.

15 Q. Do you happen to know when?

16 A. No, I don't know the exact date.

17 Q. Would it have been before the protest was

18 filed?

19 A. Might have been, I don't know.

20 Q. So it could have been before February

21 21st, 2014?

22 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Calls for

23 speculation.

24 Q. It could have been before February 21st,


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1 2014?

2 MR. TIGGES: Same objection. Calls for

3 speculation.

4 A. "Could be" questions I'm not as good at.

5 Q. I believe you did say it might have been,

6 and I'm just trying to figure out if "might" means

7 "could." Does "might" mean "could"?

8 A. You're at an intellectual level above me

9 on that verbal speculation.

10 Q. Did you ever send e-mails to Matt

11 Damschroder?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. On a regular basis?


15 A. Probably. It depends on your definition

16 of "regular," but I've sent Matt lots, if I'm doing

17 media events and other kind of things, would keep him

18 in the loop as far as clips and other things I'd see.

19 Q. Why would Mr. Damschroder want to be in

20 the loop?

21 MR. TIGGES: Objection. No foundation.

22 Calls for speculation.


24 A. Over the years, Matt's been interested in


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1 political activities, as I have.

2 Q. Has he asked you, in particular, for

3 information on Republican Party politics?

4 A. I don't know if he's asked me for

5 information. I've asked him for information, if I'm

6 doing TV shows, on background on legal requirements

7 in Ohio, et cetera.

8 Q. When you correspond with Mr. Damschroder,

9 is it usually you or he who initiates the

10 communication?


12 A. Probably more me.

13 Q. Does Mr. Damschroder ever reach out to

14 you without a question being asked by you?

15 A. There's probably been times, yes.


17 Q. Mr. Casey, I've placed in front of you

18 Exhibit 6. It's an e-mail from, it says at the very

19 top Matthew Damschroder, and it uses, if you see

20 there, it uses what I believe to be his personal

21 e-mail address, is that correct,

22 [email protected]? Do you know that to be

23 his personal e-mail address?

24 A. That sounds right, but I don't know


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1 exactly, but that sounds roughly correctly.

2 Q. And then if you look right below the line

3 that says Jack Christopher, it says FYI...Bcc from

4 Terry L. Casey." Do you see that language?

5 A. I see it.

6 Q. What does "Bcc" mean? Do you know?

7 A. It usually means blind carbon copy.

8 Q. If you look down a little bit farther, it

9 says from Terry Casey, [email protected]. Is that your

10 e-mail address?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Dated February 27, to John Zeiger and

13 [email protected]. Do you see that language?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Who is Mead?

16 A. It would be Dan Mead.

17 Q. And is he a lawyer with the Zeiger law

18 firm?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And then, of course, there's language

21 about an interesting piece on Brad Smith. Did you

22 blind copy that e-mail to Mr. Zeiger to Matt

23 Damschroder?

24 A. I sent Matt, and I'm not sure whether I


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1 sent anybody else a blind copy of that.

2 Q. Why did you do that?

3 A. It was an article in "The Wall Street

4 Journal" on that date that I thought was interesting

5 because I had had questions in my mind of how good

6 and fair of a hearing officer would Mr. Smith be.

7 Q. Did Mr. Damschroder, after he received

8 that e-mail, ask you who John Zeiger was?

9 A. I don't recall.

10 Q. Did he ask you who Dan Mead was?

11 A. I don't recall that.

12 Q. Did you have any conversation with Matt

13 Damschroder about this e-mail?

14 A. Not that I recall. I doubt that I did,

15 but I don't recall exactly.

16 Q. Was it your intent, when you sent this

17 e-mail to Matt Damschroder, to inform him that John

18 Zeiger was your lawyer?

19 A. No.

20 Q. Do you think Mr. Damschroder understood

21 from this e-mail that John Zeiger was your lawyer?


23 Calls for speculation.

24 A. I don't know what he would have


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1 understood.

2 Q. Was it your -- strike that.



5 Exhibit 7. At the top you'll see it, too, is an

6 e-mail from Matthew Damschroder, using his personal

7 e-mail account, dated February 28th, 2014, to Jack

8 Christopher. Do you see that? And if you read down

9 a little bit farther it says from Casey Terry,

10 [email protected]. Is that your e-mail address?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And then it says to Mead, and then carbon

13 copies Zeiger, "Zeiger John." Do you see that?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Is this an e-mail that you sent to Dan

16 Mead and John Zeiger on February 28th, 2014?

17 A. It looks like it, yes.

18 Q. And then did you blind copy that to Matt

19 Damschroder?

20 A. Apparently I did.

21 Q. Why did you do that?

22 A. Because, as I recall, and I forget

23 whether the 28th was a Friday, I forget the dates and

24 the time, but there was, in the news, I think that


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1 day, a question on the building where the Secretary

2 of State's office where they were going to have the

3 hearing, I thought it was on Monday, whether or not

4 the blast, whether the building was going to be

5 reopened, and then there was a big question on a

6 snowstorm.

7 So part of the question was was there

8 going to be a hearing or not. So it was more of a

9 general informational kind of thing, whether to have

10 the hearing on that Monday or not.

11 Q. Why did you blind copy him on this?


13 Q. Is it because you did not want your

14 lawyers to know that you were communicating with Matt

15 Damschroder?


17 Q. Do you frequently blind copy

18 Mr. Damschroder e-mails?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Why?

21 A. Just lots of political things, clippings,

22 things that are going on, discussion topics on TV

23 shows coming up, et cetera.

24 Q. Why do you blind copy him? Why not just


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1 copy him?

2 A. I don't know. I just have done it that

3 way.

4 Q. Is it because you don't want people to

5 know?

6 A. I don't know.

7 Q. If you look at the stack of texts,

8 Mr. Casey, if you look at the very bottom, I'm

9 looking at 0080. Do you see that page?

10 A. Just a second. Okay.

11 Q. At the very top it says New Message and

12 then it says to Terry Casey. Off to the right it

13 says "In a meeting."

14 A. Uh-huh.

15 Q. Would that be Mr. Damschroder telling you

16 he's in a meeting?

17 A. That would be my assumption. I don't

18 know that to be fact.

19 Q. Then the message underneath that reads

20 "Thanks. When handy can update me on who did this

21 filing. Plus more items to discuss later. Terry."

22 That would be your text message to Matt Damschroder?

23 A. That sounds like that'd be the case.

24 Q. And that would be on February 27th?


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1 A. I believe so.

2 Q. What "more items" did you want to discuss

3 with Mr. Damschroder?

4 A. I don't recall offhand.

5 Q. And if you turn the page over -- I'm

6 sorry. Strike that.

7 A. Which page do you want me to be on?

8 Q. Strike that. I want to look at this just

9 one second. Do you know if Mr. Damschroder, after

10 receiving this message, called you?

11 A. Which message are we talking about?

12 Q. It was on 0080, that page. I was going

13 to have you move on, but I decided to stay on that

14 page.




18 Exhibit 8, and this is an e-mail from Matt

19 Damschroder, again using his personal e-mail account,

20 to you, dated March 4th, 2014; is that correct?


22 Q. And he appears to have sent you something

23 about Karen Kasler. Do you know Karen Kasler?

24 A. Yes.


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1 Q. Who is Karen Kasler?

2 A. She works in TV.

3 Q. Do you remember receiving this from

4 Mr. Damschroder?

5 A. Vaguely, yes.

6 Q. Why did he send it to you? Do you know?

7 A. I don't know.

8 Q. Did you ever respond?


10 Q. This would have been on March 4th, 2014?


12 Q. Do you remember when the hearing protest

13 was being conducted?

14 A. I don't remember the exact date. If

15 Friday was the 28th of February, then this might have

16 been a Tuesday, but I'm not a hundred percent

17 certain.

18 Q. If the hearing commenced on Tuesday, that

19 would have been March 4th, would it not?

20 A. That sounds right, but I don't have a

21 calender in front of me.

22 Q. So Mr. Damschroder sent you this e-mail

23 while the hearing was ongoing; is that correct?

24 A. That's what it appears.


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1 Q. If you look at a copy of the text

2 messages I placed in front of you earlier, Mr. Casey,

3 look at page 91, and then continuing over to page 93,

4 0093.

5 A. We talking 90, 91, and 92?

6 Q. I'm sorry 91, 92, and 93.

7 A. Okay. Well, there was also 90.

8 Q. Yeah, let's skip that one.

9 A. But that was in the same sequence.

10 Q. Well, we can look at that one first if

11 you like, that's fine. That will give us more

12 context. So look at page 90. At the very top of the

13 page it says to Terry Casey and then, off to the

14 right, it says "Will call shortly." Do you see that

15 box?

16 A. I don't know what date that "will call

17 shortly," that might have been something else. I

18 don't know what date that one . . .

19 Q. But you do understand that "will call

20 shortly" was from Mr. Damschroder; is that correct?

21 A. Right. But I don't know when he sent

22 that.

23 Q. Okay. And then if you look at the

24 language underneath that, you say "Any sense when


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1 today the Brad Smith report comes out? Direction?

2 Have 9:30 a.m. Channel 10 taping. Thanks. Terry."

3 Do you see that language?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Do you remember having a 9:30 a.m.

6 Channel 10 taping?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. What day would that have been?

9 A. On a Friday.

10 Q. That would have been Friday,

11 March 7th; is that correct?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. So then this text message from you to

14 Matt Damschroder was on Friday, March 7th.

15 A. That would be my understanding, yes.

16 Q. Then if you flip the page.

17 A. But part of it is I was getting ready to

18 do that taping and I had no idea when anything was

19 going to come out of the Secretary of State's office,

20 and I was doing the taping at 9:30, I didn't know

21 when or if something would be out.

22 Q. Sure.

23 Go ahead and flip the page, Mr. Casey.

24 A. Okay.


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1 Q. If you look at the next page, I believe

2 the last line is the same line off the previous page.

3 If you look down, after Friday, March 7th, 11:40 a.m.

4 "Any mid-day updates when people can see, read Brad

5 Smith's report?" Do you see that language?

6 A. Yes.

7 MR. TIGGES: You mean the first line is

8 the last line of the previous page? You said the

9 last line. You said the last line of this page is

10 the same as the last line of the previous page. I

11 think you meant to say the first line.

12 Q. Okay. But the line that I'm interested

13 in, Mr. Casey, is the line that says "Any mid-day

14 updates on when and how people can see, read Brad

15 Smith's report?" Do you see that language?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Did you send that to Matt Damschroder?

18 A. As I recall, yes.

19 Q. If you flip the page over to 92, you see

20 Friday, March 7, at 4:43 p.m. It says "Press release

21 out. Both off ballot." Is that from

22 Mr. Damschroder?

23 A. I would assume so, since you've got them

24 organized this way.


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1 Q. And then if you look down at Saturday,

2 March 8th, 10:07 a.m. It says "Lawsuit filed with

3 Watson." Was that to you from Matt Damschroder?

4 A. I would assume, if what you're telling

5 me, it all came from the same source, that would be

6 the case.

7 Q. Did Mr. Damschroder, in fact, send you a

8 copy of the Hearing Officer's Report and

9 Recommendation?

10 A. I think sometime around that 4:43 or 4:44

11 or 4:45, I vaguely remember getting something from

12 Mr. Zeiger that something was out, and also getting

13 something from Matt that it had been finalized and

14 done.

15 Q. So did you, in fact, read the final

16 Report and Recommendation --

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. -- issued by Brad Smith?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Who was that Report and Recommendation in

21 favor of? Do you remember?

22 A. As I recall, it was in favor of

23 Mr. Felsoci's protest and, as I recall, took them --

24 I'm trying to remember whether he wrote it all as one


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1 on Gubernatorial Lieutenant Governor plus AG, I can't

2 remember how they were grouped together, but I guess

3 the thing I was surprised by was his report and the

4 Secretary of State's decision all came out at one

5 time in one package.

6 Q. Then if you turn the page over to 93, you

7 see at the very top it says New Message and it says

8 to Terry Casey, Saturday, March 8, 9:21 p.m. Then

9 underneath you say "Thanks!! Can discuss more Sunday

10 or Monday. AG still trying to figure their game

11 plan. Terry." Do you see that language?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Is that language you wrote to Matt

14 Damschroder?

15 A. It sounds roughly familiar.

16 Q. And that would have been on Saturday,

17 March 8th?

18 A. I assume so, yes.

19 Q. How did you know that the AG was still

20 trying to figure their game plan?

21 A. I think the question was who was going to

22 represent the AG.

23 Q. Who asked you that question?

24 A. Who asked me?


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75


2 A. I don't know that anybody asked me that

3 question.

4 Q. I know, but you said "the question was,"

5 I was just wondering if someone asked that question

6 or put that question to you.

7 A. Nobody put it to me.

8 Q. Why would you send that message to Matt

9 Damschroder?


11 A. I remember a question in my mind, this is

12 just me as one person, whether or not the AG, because

13 he was a party not on the gubernatorial thing but on

14 the Linnabary thing, whether he was going to have

15 outside counsel or do it in-house because there might

16 be a question of conflict or not.

17 Q. Why would Matt Damschroder care about

18 that?

19 A. I don't know.

20 Q. Why would you care about that?

21 A. Just, I'm a Republican and the question

22 might come up of whether that's the best way for the

23 AG to do it or not.

24 Q. Do you think the AG needed outside


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1 counsel?

2 A. I don't know. I just knew that the

3 question might come up of whether, if he's

4 representing himself on something that he benefits,

5 whether or not there's a conflict or not.

6 Q. So you did suspect there might be a

7 potential conflict of interest in this case.

8 A. I knew a question could come up.

9 Q. And why is that?

10 A. Because the AG's representing the

11 Secretary of State, but the AG is the candidate in

12 question.

13 Q. Did you think it might be a potential

14 conflict of interest because the Hearing Officer was

15 working for the Attorney General?

16 A. I don't know about that fact. At least

17 didn't know at that time.

18 Q. Did you know now?

19 A. I think Mr. Zeiger mentioned something to

20 that effect, a couple weeks ago. I didn't know about

21 it till then.

22 Q. If you flip the page from 93 to 94,

23 Mr. Casey, you see a text message dated Sunday,

24 March 9, at 9:49 p.m. And it says "Any time tonight


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77

1 or early in a.m. to discuss how the legal teams are

2 lining up." Do you see that language?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Did you write that language to

5 Mr. Damschroder?

6 A. It sounds like something I might have

7 written.

8 Q. That would have been on Sunday, March 9?


10 Q. And you mentioned "legal teams." Which

11 legal teams are you referring to?

12 A. That presumably would be the AG and the

13 representation on the AG's aspect of it.

14 Q. Why did you want to discuss that with

15 Mr. Damschroder?

16 A. I was just curious of how they were going

17 to do it.

18 Q. Did you think Mr. Damschroder knew?

19 A. I don't know whether he knew or when he

20 would know, but somebody had to make a decision at

21 some time.

22 Q. Was Mr. Damschroder feeding you inside

23 information about the AG's office?



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78

1 Q. But you were asking for inside

2 information about the AG's office.


4 Q. If you'll flip the page, Mr. Casey,

5 you'll see page 95.

6 A. Okay.

7 Q. Monday, March 10, at 8:28 a.m. "Any time

8 this a.m. to connect by phone? Thanks. Terry." Is

9 that a message you sent to Matt Damschroder?

10 A. Probably.

11 Q. Why did you want to speak to him by

12 phone?

13 A. Just to kind of follow up on what was

14 going to happen on the legal battles as they went

15 forward.

16 Q. And then if you look at the bottom, it

17 says Monday, March 10, 3:57. You state "When handy

18 can discuss more. Best in person." Actually, if you

19 flip the page, look at page 96, you'll see the rest

20 of that message.

21 A. Right.

22 Q. "Know you are busy on the higher priority

23 issue. Terry." What did you mean by that?

24 A. I really don't know.


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1 Q. Why was it best in person to discuss this

2 with Mr. Damschroder?

3 A. I don't know. Sometimes on the phone is

4 not as good as meeting in person.

5 Q. What's the "higher priority issue"?

6 A. At least in my mind is how is the AG

7 going to be represented. I mean it wasn't a case I

8 was directly involved in, but was interested in how

9 it was going to be handled.

10 Q. Were you concerned with the AG

11 representing himself as opposed to having outside

12 counsel?

13 A. That was part of the question.

14 Q. Did you think outside counsel would do a

15 better job for the AG?

16 A. Don't know. Depend on who they had in

17 the AG staff and who they had as outside counsel.

18 Q. Who was the AG's counsel at the time? Do

19 you remember?

20 A. Don't remember offhand.

21 Q. Do you know if it was Bridget Coontz?

22 A. She was involved at some point, but I

23 don't know whether she was involved at that stage.

24 Q. Do you know who else was involved with


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1 Bridget Coontz?

2 A. No, I don't.

3 Q. Does the name Richard Coglianese ring a

4 bell?

5 A. He's done things in the past for the AG's

6 office.

7 Q. Do you know if he's still on the case?

8 A. I don't think. I think he's in another

9 section now.

10 Q. Do you know which section he's in?

11 A. Something regarding employment law or

12 something of that nature.

13 Q. Do you know why he's in that section?

14 A. Have no idea.

15 Q. If you flip the page over to page 97 and

16 98, actually. I think you need both of those pages

17 to get the full text. It says "Thanks. Just

18 discussing that with attorneys. Another reason why

19 DeWine should have" -- and if you flip the page --

20 "excellent, outside counsel. But he did not make

21 that suggested choice." Do you remember what day

22 that was when you sent that message?

23 A. I don't remember, know exactly, I don't.

24 Q. How did you know the AG did not make that


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1 choice?

2 A. I don't know whether Matt said something

3 or somebody else said something, I don't remember.

4 Q. Who suggested that choice to the AG?

5 A. Which choice?

6 Q. The choice of excellent outside counsel?

7 A. I don't know what happened internally in

8 the AG's office.

9 Q. But you do say here, to Mr. Damschroder,

10 "But he did not make that suggested choice," which

11 indicates that you must know what the suggested

12 choice was.

13 A. I don't know who the exact -- what

14 options they were looking at. I just -- I just knew

15 in my personal opinion I probably would have gone

16 with outside counsel, but I'm not the Attorney

17 General and he doesn't call and ask me.

18 Q. How did you know he did not go with

19 outside counsel?

20 A. I heard it, but I don't know whether it

21 was Matt that told me or somebody else that told me.

22 Q. Below that it appears that

23 Mr. Damschroder says "I could stop by your house on

24 the way home from work. Or coffee first thing in


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82

1 a.m." Do you see that?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Did Mr. Damschroder, in fact, stop by

4 your house on the way home from work?

5 A. I know he did one time; whether this was

6 the time or not, I don't know.

7 Q. If you flip over to page 0100. At the

8 very top of the page it says New Message.

9 A. I was reading the one on 99 just to get

10 some flow in the context of things.

11 Q. Sure. Go right ahead.

12 A. Okay.

13 Q. Then on page 100, this is dated March 10,

14 9:01 p.m., it appears that you say "Just left phone

15 message. Zeiger would like to meet with you and Rich

16 C. from the AG office at 10:30 a.m. Tuesday." Do you

17 see that language?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Who is Rich C.?

20 A. I assume it's Rich Coglianese.

21 Q. Why did Mr. Zeiger want to meet with Rich

22 C. and Matt Damschroder?

23 A. I assume he wanted to chat about some of

24 the cases since they were, at this stage, the


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1 Secretary of State had decided in favor of

2 Mr. Felsoci. So, in some ways, the positions were

3 aligned of Mr. Zeiger's position and the Secretary of

4 State's position; after the decision was made, their

5 positions were aligned.

6 Q. Why didn't you have Mr. Zeiger contact

7 Matt directly?

8 A. I'm trying to remember whether either

9 Matt didn't call back or whether somebody else, who

10 is a lawyer in the Secretary of State's office,

11 didn't call back. I don't remember the exact

12 details.

13 Q. Was it clear in your mind that, by this

14 date, Matt Damschroder understood that you were

15 involved with John Zeiger in protesting Charlie Earl?

16 A. I would assume so, yes.

17 Q. I know there's pages in between, but I'm

18 going to focus on page 102, Mr. Casey. You can look

19 at pages 101 and 100.

20 A. Okay. We're on 102?

21 Q. Yes, sir. And the language is "He has.

22 But Jack has been slow or kind of busy. Will have

23 him try again. Might help Jack understand why this

24 is super priority. Terry." Do you see that


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1 language?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Do you remember sending that message to

4 Matt Damschroder?

5 A. It sounds familiar.

6 Q. Looks like it was on or about Tuesday,

7 March 11th; is that correct?

8 A. I don't know -- it sounds like that

9 Tuesday is about right.

10 Q. What was the "super priority"? Do you

11 know?

12 A. I think the main thing was that I know

13 Mr. Zeiger was having trouble connecting with, I

14 don't know whether it was Jack Christopher or the

15 Secretary of State's office or something, I was just

16 trying to facilitate people hooking up and

17 connecting.

18 Q. So you were the conduit between

19 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Damschroder.

20 A. I wouldn't call it "conduit."

21 Q. What would you call it? Just

22 facilitator?

23 A. I was just trying to help out people

24 connect because folks are busy and sometimes they


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1 miss phone messages.

2 Q. If you flip over to -- actually, again,

3 you can look at all these pages, Mr. Casey, that's

4 fine, but I'm looking at page 0104.

5 A. Okay. Let me just read the lead-in.

6 Q. Yes, sir.

7 A. Okay. I've read them.

8 Q. And you say, on page 104, you "Need by

9 Wednesday afternoon to use before Judge Watson

10 Thursday. Thanks. Terry." What did you need by

11 Wednesday afternoon? Do you remember?

12 A. What I was trying to find is people with

13 expertise on statewide petition efforts. And I had

14 reached out to Matt and a number of other people who

15 might have had that expertise.

16 Q. Did, in fact, Matt Damschroder supply you

17 with information?

18 A. I don't remember that he had any

19 suggestions, off the top of my head. I had a number

20 of people I reached out to and got several names and

21 suggestions of people that were knowledgeable in

22 those areas.

23 Q. If you look at page 106, and again,

24 please, you can read the other pages in between them


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1 too.

2 A. Right.

3 Q. And at the very bottom, on page 106,

4 there's a block that says "For Ian James petitions,

5 send a public records request to

6 cshea@ohiosecretaryofstate." Do you see that?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Is that from Mr. Damschroder?

9 A. I believe so.

10 Q. So he recommended that you get Ian James'

11 petitions?

12 A. No. No. I was asking something about, I

13 can't remember, Ian James, but he was basically

14 saying this is how you get public records out of

15 their office.

16 Q. I believe your question right before that

17 was "Zeiger needs an expert witness"; is that

18 correct?


20 Q. And then Mr. Damschroder responded "For

21 Ian James petitions, send a public records

22 request"; is that correct?

23 A. That's what I'm reading here. I don't

24 recall the exact details or the flow of things, but I


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1 was trying to get information that I see here that

2 Matt did suggest that Gene Pierce had been involved

3 in a paid circulator thing.

4 Q. That's over on page 107, correct?

5 A. Correct, yes.

6 Q. Did you, in fact, contact Gene Pierce?

7 A. No.

8 Q. If you flip the page over to 108, it

9 appears that Mr. Damschroder said "Also, casino

10 folks, (Whatman) paid for a lot if signatures."

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Did you contact Whatman?

13 A. No.

14 Q. And then at the very bottom of that on

15 the page that's Wednesday, March 12th, you say

16 "Brandon from SSP is working well as an expert

17 witness for Zeiger...."

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Who is Brandon? Do you know?

20 A. Brandon, and you asked me too quick, it

21 begins with L-y, "Lyman," I forget the exact

22 pronunciation, but he works with SPP and has done a

23 lot of petition efforts and was knowledgeable.

24 Q. Did you, in fact, use Brandon as an


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1 expert witness?

2 A. I didn't use him, but I got the name to

3 Mr. Zeiger and he talked to him.

4 Q. Did you get that name from Matt

5 Damschroder?


7 Q. If you flip over to 110 and, again, I'm

8 not saying you can't look at the pages before that,

9 but that's the page I'm going to look at.

10 A. Right.

11 Q. At the very bottom it appears that you

12 ask Mr. Damschroder for a report on "Was there a 2004

13 report or documentation done by the SOS office on

14 Nader petition problem? Call me." Do you see that

15 language?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Why did you want a report on Ralph Nader

18 from Matt Damschroder?

19 A. I don't know that I wanted it from Matt.

20 I was looking for aspects -- experts, people

21 knowledgeable, going back to, I think it was '04 when

22 the problems came up on Nader petitions.

23 Q. So why would you be interested in that

24 document?


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1 A. Because I think one of the legal issues

2 involved in the case was whether or not -- why Ohio

3 had a law and paid circulators and why it was

4 important.

5 Q. Did Mr. Damschroder get you that

6 document?

7 A. I don't remember whether he did or did

8 not.

9 Q. If you look at page 111.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. You say "Call me on my cell and I can

12 give more specifics. Thanks. Terry." Is that a

13 message you sent to Matt Damschroder?

14 A. It sounds correct.

15 Q. Do you remember the approximate date?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Would it have been March 12th, 2014?


19 A. It could have been around that time

20 period.

21 Q. Did, in fact, Mr. Damschroder call you on

22 your cell? Do you remember?

23 A. I don't remember.

24 Q. Is it safe to say, Mr. Casey, that you


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1 had constant contact with Matt Damschroder during

2 this protest process?

3 A. I would characterize my contact prior to

4 the decision by the Secretary of State as pretty

5 limited, and then, after the protest, probably talked

6 to him a little more, but during the protest period

7 itself, leading up to a decision, I would say it was

8 pretty minimal.

9 Q. Why did you feel it necessary to talk to

10 Matt Damschroder so often during the protest process?



13 A. I thought I differentiated, prior to the

14 Secretary of State's decision, was very limited in my

15 contact, and then, after that, was probably more

16 frequent because I was trying to pull together if

17 there was some experts or people knowledgeable on

18 things like petitions and reasons why certain

19 statutory things were done.

20 Q. So why did you differentiate between the

21 two again, after the decision and before the

22 decision? I'm sorry, again, I had a hard time

23 hearing why. Why did you make that distinction?

24 A. I didn't feel it was appropriate to be


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1 having extensive contact with Matt while they were in

2 the process of doing whatever they were doing.

3 Q. But you did have contact with him, is

4 that correct, when the hearing was ongoing?

5 A. But that was more a sporadic thing, like

6 he sent me a clipping of a thing, just like I sent

7 him and lots of other people clippings.

8 Q. Why were you uncomfortable talking to

9 Mr. Damschroder while the hearing was ongoing?

10 A. I didn't want to appear or be trying to

11 influence their office in whatever they would do.

12 Q. Did it appear to be a conflict of

13 interest to you?

14 A. You mean for me to do that?

15 Q. Yes.

16 A. No, it wasn't a conflict because, as far

17 as I knew, Matt was not the Hearing Officer and not

18 making the decision.

19 Q. But, still, you decided to limit your

20 contact with Mr. Damschroder in that period; is that

21 correct?

22 A. Except there were some questions on the

23 mechanics of what was going to happen on Monday or

24 whether it be pushed back to Tuesday.


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1 Q. Did you feel uncomfortable about

2 contacting Mr. Damschroder before the protest was

3 actually filed?

4 A. I don't know that I felt uncomfortable,

5 but . . .

6 Q. But you obviously did contact

7 Mr. Damschroder before the protest was filed; is that

8 correct?

9 A. I think I had some limited contact with

10 him.

11 Q. Did you think that your contact with

12 Mr. Damschroder might influence Mr. Damschroder?

13 A. I don't know that it would have

14 influenced him.

15 Q. Did you think that it might?

16 A. Did I think it would influence him?

17 Q. Did you think that it might influence

18 him?

19 A. No. Because he's -- well, first of all

20 he wasn't the person deciding; and, No. 2, Matt's

21 pretty by the books, whatever what the law calls for

22 is what he does.

23 Q. If he were the person deciding, would it

24 have been improper for you to contact him while the


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1 protest was under consideration?

2 A. I probably would not have if he had been

3 the person deciding.

4 Q. Would have it been improper to do that?

5 A. I'm not an expert on what's proper and

6 improper.

7 Q. Then why would you not have?

8 A. I'm sorry. What?

9 Q. Then why would you have not contacted him

10 if he were, in fact, the decision-maker?

11 A. Well, I just said I'm not an expert on

12 that kind of legal question.

13 Q. I know, but you did say, I believe, that

14 you would not have contacted him if he were the

15 decision-maker; is that correct?

16 A. That's just personal opinion.

17 Q. That's just your personal opinion?

18 A. Yeah.

19 Q. Did you contact Secretary Husted at any

20 point after January 1st, 2014?

21 A. I think that was asked before and my

22 answer is the same this time: No.




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1 Exhibit 9, and it appears to be an e-mail from Jon

2 Husted, dated April 23, 2014, to Terry Casey,

3 [email protected]. Is that your e-mail address?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And it says, I think this is from

6 Secretary Husted, "thanks for sending. Jh"; is that

7 correct?

8 A. That's what it says on the paper.

9 Q. Do you remember receiving this e-mail?

10 A. Vaguely, yes.

11 Q. Then if you look a little bit below that,

12 it says on April 23rd, 2014, at 8:18 a.m., Terry

13 Casey wrote, summary from Terry Casey, and presumably

14 that was sent to Jon Husted; is that correct?

15 A. It was sent to a wide number of people.

16 Q. Was it sent to Jon Husted?

17 A. Him and a bunch of other people.

18 Q. So you did, in fact, communicate with

19 Secretary Husted at some point after January 1st,

20 2014.

21 A. My understanding of your question on

22 "communicate" was personal communications. This was

23 just more of a blast e-mail.

24 Q. Why did you send him this e-mail?


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1 A. Because I thought it was an interesting

2 case involving Ohio and the Sixth Circuit Court of

3 Appeals; thought the AG's office attorney did a very

4 good job and felt Mr. Tigges did a very good job.

5 Q. Who else did you send it to?

6 A. I don't know exactly, but there probably,

7 I don't know, 30, 40 folks, different people, boards

8 of elections in other counties, other people involved

9 politically.

10 Q. Did you sent it to John Kasich?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Did you send it to the Kasich campaign?

13 A. Not the campaign, no.

14 Q. Did you send it to anybody in the Kasich

15 campaign?

16 A. There were probably people involved in

17 the campaign directly and indirectly that I sent it

18 to.

19 Q. Do you have a copy of the list of the

20 people you sent it to?

21 A. I probably do somewhere.

22 Q. Do you happen to remember any other names

23 on that list?

24 A. Not right off the top of my head. I'm


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1 pretty sure I sent it to Jo Ann Davidson, I know was

2 one person.

3 Q. At the very top it doesn't indicate that

4 anyone else received this e-mail from you; is that

5 correct?

6 A. Tell me the question again.

7 Q. At the top, where it says from Jon Husted

8 to Terry Casey, it doesn't indicate that anyone else

9 received this.

10 A. Well, my assumption, I'm just guessing

11 now, is I sent it out, as I recall, as a Bcc, blind

12 carbon copy, to a number of people, and he sent back

13 just to me because he didn't know who all I had sent

14 it to.

15 Q. Did you expect an e-mail in return from

16 Secretary Husted?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Did you send a copy of that to Matt

19 Damschroder?

20 A. Probably.

21 Q. Did you keep copies of all of those

22 e-mails that you sent to 30 or 40 people?

23 A. I didn't keep copies of each one

24 individually, but I'm sure I got a copy somewhere of


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1 who all it was sent to.

2 MR. BROWN: Can we just take a break for

3 a second?

4 MR. TIGGES: Sure.

5 (Recess taken.)

6 Q. (By Mr. Brown) Good afternoon, once

7 again, Mr. Casey. We're back from a short break.

8 Let us return to your e-mail to Jon Husted. You said

9 that was one e-mail of a bunch, I think you said,

10 that you sent out; is that correct?

11 A. I thought what I said was it was kind of

12 a blast e-mail out to, I don't know whether it was

13 40, 50, 60 different political, other kind of people,

14 and that was way after the Secretary of State's

15 decision because that was the time of the

16 Sixth Circuit hearing, so that was way after anything

17 that he was deciding on the original protest.

18 Q. But it was a blast, I think that's how

19 you described it. I said "bunch," but you said

20 "blast."

21 A. Or mass e-mail, probably. It wasn't what

22 I call personal communications.

23 Q. But when you say "mass e-mail" you

24 mean -- well, my question is: If it's a mass e-mail,


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1 do you have a list --

2 A. No.

3 Q. -- of the names? No. You simply enter

4 them one by one; is that correct?

5 A. Well, I just think of different people

6 that might be interested in the case. And, again, I

7 thought the lawyers did a very good job and you don't

8 often have cases before the Sixth Circuit.



11 Exhibit 10, which appears to be an e-mail from Casey

12 Terry, [email protected]. Is that your e-mail address?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. To, at the very bottom, it says Casey

15 Terry, [email protected]. That's also your e-mail

16 address?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Could you look at the text of that e-mail

19 and confirm that you sent that?

20 A. It looks like something I sent out. I

21 haven't read through the complete text of it.

22 Q. Go ahead and take a minute just if you

23 would.

24 A. Okay.


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1 Yes.

2 Q. Is that something you had sent out?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Who did you send that to?

5 A. It was a similar type of mass or large

6 scale, different people in Ohio that I know, either

7 elections or political things.

8 Q. But if you look at the very top it

9 doesn't indicate that you sent it to anyone, does it?


11 Q. Why is it from you to you?

12 A. If you're doing a larger-scale mailing

13 thing, sometimes I'll send it to myself and then do

14 all the people getting it being blind carbon copied.

15 Q. So they're all blind copies, but you

16 still enter them all individually.

17 A. Yes. Well -- or, I might have, I forget

18 the timing of this compared to the other one, I might

19 have copied the people I sent on the Sixth Circuit

20 thing, and then sent it out to the same people and

21 maybe added some names or deleted some names. So I

22 don't remember the exact mechanics.

23 Q. But there's no list that you can just

24 type in there?


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100

1 A. No.

2 Q. Sending it to yourself doesn't send it

3 automatically to a list of people?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Do you know Bradley Smith?

6 A. I know the name.

7 Q. Do you know of Bradley Smith? Do you

8 know what his position is?

9 A. I know those mechanics. I don't know him

10 personally.

11 Q. Sure. What is Bradley Smith's position

12 to your knowledge? What is his occupation? What

13 does he do?

14 A. You mean currently or past?

15 Q. Currently.

16 A. As I understand now, he's, I think, a

17 named professor at Capital's law school, I think he's

18 also doing some visiting professorship at West

19 Virginia University, I think he's on the board of the

20 1851 Society group, something like that.

21 Q. How about his past occupations, do you

22 know of any of his post occupations?

23 A. Probably the one I'm most familiar with,

24 he's a former Chairman of the Federal Elections


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1 Commission.

2 Q. Do you also know he was the Hearing

3 Officer in this protest case?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And I believe you testified earlier that

6 you did receive a copy of his final recommendation

7 and report; is that correct?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And who did that recommendation and

10 report come out in favor of?

11 A. It came out in favor of Mr. Felsoci, and

12 I think it also, I forget the details, related to

13 against Linnabary, I forget the details on the AG's

14 side.

15 Q. Did you know that Professor Smith

16 actually had ruled in favor of the candidates before

17 he ruled in favor of the protestors?


19 A. I didn't know that until just a couple

20 weeks ago. Mr. Zeiger told me that.

21 Q. But you do understand that now?

22 A. Well, I don't know what happened, I just

23 know that there was some communications at some time

24 and then he decided what he decided and did that on


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1 Friday or whatever.


3 Q. Mr. Casey, I've placed in front of you

4 Exhibit No. 11, which is an e-mail from Bradley Smith

5 to Jack Christopher, dated March 6th, 2014. Subject

6 line it says, "Final transcript."

7 A. You talking about at the top?

8 Q. Yes. The very top.

9 A. Should I read the other, because it looks

10 like there's two or three other.

11 Q. Sure. Go right ahead, please.

12 A. So these are kind -- these e-mails are

13 kind of backwards, right?

14 Q. I believe you're exactly right. It looks

15 like the last e-mail is first, yes.

16 A. Okay.

17 Q. Have you ever seen this e-mail --

18 A. No.

19 Q. -- train before?

20 A. No.

21 Q. If you look at the very top, it says

22 "Jack, Done. I know this will anger and disappoint a

23 bunch of people but I am recommending that the

24 protests be dismissed." Do you see that language?


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1 A. I see what's in front of me.

2 Q. And at the very end it says "Brad."

3 Are you aware of anyone who would have

4 been angered and disappointed by a ruling in favor of

5 dismissal of the protests?

6 A. I don't know anything about this.

7 Q. Would the Republicans have been angered

8 and disappointed if Professor Smith had ruled in

9 favor of the candidates?

10 A. I don't know. You're asking me

11 something, to speculate on what people think.

12 Q. Would you have been angered and

13 disappointed if Professor Smith ruled in favor of the

14 candidates?

15 A. I don't know. It would depend on what he

16 would say were the legal reasons.

17 Q. What if he simply dismissed the protest

18 and said that the candidates should never have been

19 challenged? Would that have made you angry? Would

20 that have disappointed you?

21 A. You're asking me a hypothetical question.

22 Q. Yes, I am.

23 A. I'm not real good on testifying on

24 hypothetical questions.


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104

1 Q. It is a hypothetical, yes. Would it have

2 made you happy?

3 A. You're continuing to ask me

4 hypotheticals. I don't do hypotheticals in this

5 setting.

6 Q. You never answer any hypotheticals?

7 A. Not in this kind of legal setting.

8 Q. In any setting?

9 A. If we're in a bar casually, maybe,

10 but . . .

11 Q. Did you know that the challenge against

12 Oscar Hatchett, the circulator, was that he did not

13 properly fill out the employer statement? Did you

14 know that was the challenge to Oscar Hatchett?

15 A. You mean did I know at the hearing or

16 prior to the hearing?

17 Q. At the hearing.

18 A. Well, I was aware because there was a lot

19 of discussion of that question.

20 Q. And you're aware that the principle

21 question was whether an independent contractor had to

22 fill out the employer statement box? Are you aware

23 of that?

24 MR. TIGGES: Object to the


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105

1 characterization.


3 A. I mean, I heard those questions raised

4 and discussed.

5 Q. And the question was whether an employee

6 had to fill out the employer statement, but not an

7 independent contractor. Did you understand that at

8 the time?

9 A. I understand that was part of the

10 question in dispute on independent contractor versus

11 employee.

12 Q. Did you have any communications with Brad

13 Smith the week of March 3rd to March 7th, 2014, while

14 this protest was being considered?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Did you know anyone who did have

17 conversations with Brad Smith, the week of March 3rd

18 to March 7th, when this protest was being considered?

19 A. Not that I'm aware of.

20 Q. Did Mr. Damschroder, to your knowledge,

21 have any communications with Brad Smith, the week of

22 March 3rd to March 7th, 2014?

23 A. I don't know.

24 Q. Did anyone in the Ohio Republican Party,


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106

1 to your knowledge, have any communications with Brad

2 Smith, the week of March 3rd to March 7th, 2014?


4 Q. Did anyone in the Franklin County

5 Republican Party have any communications with Brad

6 Smith, the week of March 3rd to March 7th, 2014?

7 A. I have no clue.

8 Q. Did anyone in the Kasich campaign have

9 any communications with Brad Smith, the week of

10 March 3rd to March 7th?

11 A. I have no idea whatsoever.

12 Q. Did anyone in the DeWine campaign have

13 any communications with Brad Smith, the week of

14 March 3rd to March 7th?

15 A. I have no knowledge whatsoever.


17 Q. Mr. Casey, placed in front of you is

18 Deposition Exhibit 12. At the very top you'll see

19 it's an e-mail from Brad Smith to Jack Christopher,

20 dated March 7th, 2014. If you read down a little bit

21 you see that Professor Smith is responding to an

22 e-mail from Jack Christopher, and Jack Christopher's

23 e-mail is March 7, 2014, 3:30 a.m. Do you see that

24 language below Jack Christopher's response?


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107

1 A. There's, what, 8 or 9 or 10 paragraphs?

2 Q. Yeah. Exactly. Do you see that

3 language?

4 A. Yes, I see it.

5 Q. Have you ever seen that language before?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Did you, by chance, see any of that

8 language in the final recommendation and report

9 issued by Brad Smith?

10 A. I don't know. I haven't studied this or

11 I'd have to go back and reread his decision. So I

12 don't know exactly what he's saying and how it

13 translated.

14 Q. Did anyone ever tell you, before

15 March 7th, 2014, that Brad Smith had ruled in favor

16 of the candidates in this protest?

17 A. You said March 7th?

18 Q. Before March 7th.

19 A. Is that a Friday?

20 Q. That would be a Friday, yes, sir.

21 A. No.

22 Q. When did you learn that Brad Smith had

23 initially ruled in favor of the candidates?



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108


2 A. As recalled, my memory refreshed from the

3 text messages, it must have been around that 4:44 in

4 the afternoon or --

5 MR. TIGGES: You're not listening to the

6 question.

7 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry.

8 MR. TIGGES: Read the question back,

9 Carolyn.

10 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.

11 (Record read.)

12 A. Oh, initially.

13 Q. Yes, sir, initially.

14 A. That would have been a couple weeks ago.

15 Mr. Zeiger mentioned something about it.

16 Q. But you did not know until just a couple

17 of weeks ago.

18 A. No. You're talking initially in some

19 draft versus a final.

20 Q. Yes, sir.

21 A. Okay. Yeah.

22 Q. Were you aware that, in 2012,

23 Gary Johnson was running for president on the

24 Libertarian Party ticket?


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109

1 A. I vaguely remember. He's the former New

2 Mexico Governor, right?

3 Q. Yes, sir, I think that's correct.

4 A. I remember vaguely that he was

5 considering running for Governor, I think

6 Libertarians were having some conference he was going

7 to be in Columbus for, but I just kind of remember

8 that in general.

9 Q. Do you remember if he actually appeared

10 on the Ohio ballot, in 2012, as the Libertarian Party

11 candidate?

12 A. Do not recall.

13 Q. Do you know anything about a protest that

14 was lodged against Gary Johnson in 2012, in an effort

15 to remove him from the Ohio ballot as the Libertarian

16 Party candidate for President?

17 A. Know nothing about that.

18 Q. Do you know Cynthia Rees? R-e-e-s.

19 A. I don't think so. I'm trying to think if

20 there's a Cynthia, I think it began with -- but I

21 can't remember if it's Rees or Reesha or somebody,

22 who ran for Congress one time, but I think that's a

23 different spelling or name than this.

24 Q. Yes. I believe this one is R-e-e-s.


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110

1 Cynthia Rees.

2 A. Doesn't ring a bell at all.

3 Q. I believe you testified earlier that you

4 presently know of John Musca; is that correct?

5 A. I know the name.

6 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Mischaracterizes

7 his testimony.

8 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. What was

9 that?

10 MR. TIGGES: Mischaracterizes your

11 testimony.

12 Q. I don't mean to mischaracterize your

13 testimony. Go ahead, Mr. Casey.

14 A. Ask me, again, the question.

15 Q. I'm asking again about John Musca. I'm

16 just trying to avoid having to re-cover the same

17 ground. Do you know John Musca. Do you know the

18 name John Musca?

19 A. I've heard the name, and I think I maybe

20 talked to him once or twice on the phone, but I don't

21 know him.

22 Q. Do you happen to remember when you did

23 speak to him on the telephone?

24 A. Not exactly. Sometime in February or


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111

1 March.

2 Q. Do you happen to remember how you ever

3 initially met?

4 A. How I met him?

5 Q. Well, I met either by phone or by person,

6 I think you said you did talk to him a couple times

7 on the telephone?

8 A. Right. But, to my knowledge, I've never

9 met the guy.

10 Q. Sure. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

11 A. But I -- I don't know whether, from

12 Mr. Felsoci, got his name and phone number, I'm not

13 sure, but I know he was a friend of Mr. Felsoci.

14 Q. So did you get Mr. Musca's name from

15 Mr. Felsoci; is that correct?

16 A. I don't remember exactly where I got the

17 phone number.

18 Q. Did you get Mr. Felsoci's name from

19 Mr. Musca?


21 Q. Did Mr. Felsoci ever call you?

22 A. I can't -- he might have called me once

23 or twice, I can't really recall.

24 Q. Do you know when that might have been?


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112

1 A. Sometime in February or March, roughly,

2 as I recall.

3 Q. Would that have been after Mr. Felsoci

4 filed his protest against Charlie Earl?


6 A. Ask me again the question. I just want

7 to make sure I'm hearing you correctly.

8 Q. Your telephone conversations with

9 Mr. Felsoci, would they have been after Mr. Felsoci

10 filed the protest against Charlie Earl?


12 A. They probably -- I know I talked to him

13 either once or twice before and there might have been

14 once or twice after the filing, but I don't remember

15 the exact dates and times.

16 Q. Did you ever physically drive up to see

17 Mr. Felsoci?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Did Mr. Felsoci ever physically drive

20 down here to see you?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Did you ever give Mr. Felsoci money?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Did Mr. Felsoci ever give you any money?


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1 A. No.

2 Q. Did Mr. Musca pay you anything?

3 A. No.

4 Q. So is it safe to say that Mr. Felsoci and

5 Mr. Musca are not interested parties who might supply

6 you funds; is that correct?

7 A. I'm not sure of the context of

8 "interested parties."

9 Q. I'm sorry. You're right. Let me back up

10 a second.

11 I believe you testified earlier that your

12 plan is to contact interested parties or interested

13 persons in order to solicit funds to pay your

14 lawyers; is that not correct?

15 A. I think I said something like that.

16 Q. So my question, then, is whether

17 Mr. Felsoci and Mr. Musca might be interested parties

18 whom you would solicit?


20 A. I doubt it, because, to my knowledge, I

21 don't think they have that degree of interest.

22 Q. What kind of interest do they have to

23 have before you can solicit them?

24 A. Probably folks that have the ability to


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1 make contributions. My sense is they're not in that

2 category.

3 Q. When you say "contributions," do you mean

4 money?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. How much money would one have to have

7 before you consider them a potential interested

8 party?

9 A. I don't know. I haven't thought that

10 equation through that much.

11 Q. But I believe Mr. Felsoci is a carpenter,

12 so he obviously doesn't have enough money; is that

13 correct?

14 A. Unless somebody tells me differently, I'd

15 probably focus on other people.

16 Q. How much money are you looking for?

17 A. I don't know.

18 Q. You've received at least two invoices

19 from your lawyers. Are you telling me you have no

20 idea what's in those invoices?

21 A. No. I remember there's -- I forget what

22 the first one was, but there's a certain amount of

23 money there, but my sense is, as you summarized,

24 Mr. Felsoci's background and financial means is


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1 probably not a high prospect for contributions.

2 Q. Do those two invoices together amount to

3 more than six figures in dollars?

4 A. They probably, by now, are in six

5 figures.

6 Q. Would it be a quarter-million dollars?

7 Do you know?

8 A. I don't know the exact number.

9 Q. But six figures, certainly, that's what I

10 believe you said.

11 A. Probably.

12 Q. How many individuals do you think you're

13 going to have to approach to raise the six figures

14 needed to pay Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?

15 A. Haven't got to that stage yet.

16 Q. Would it be a hundred people?

17 A. I haven't really thought through and

18 focused on that yet.

19 Q. Would you approach individuals or

20 corporations --


22 Q. -- or both?

23 A. I'd probably need to do some more

24 research on legally what's the best way in terms of


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1 whether you do it with a separate committee, whether

2 you do individuals, probably corporations would not

3 be permitted, but I haven't done that legal research

4 fully yet.

5 Q. Would you approach, do you think,

6 political parties?


8 A. I don't know. I haven't thought through

9 the process.

10 Q. Would it be legal for a political party

11 to give you money to pay your lawyers in this case?

12 A. I haven't done that legal research yet.

13 Q. Would you approach maybe the Wolfe

14 brothers?


16 A. I don't know who the Wolfe brothers are.

17 Q. Would you approach Les Wexner?

18 A. I normally don't hang out with him and he

19 doesn't call me.

20 Q. Who do you hang out with?

21 A. Which night?

22 Q. Well, I don't know. All the time. Who

23 do you --

24 MR. TIGGES: That's not relevant to


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1 anything. Let's move on to something relevant to

2 this case.

3 MR. BROWN: No, I'm trying -- Steve, this

4 is very relevant. I'm trying to find out who he's

5 going to solicit to pay your fee.

6 MR. TIGGES: He's already said repeatedly

7 he doesn't know yet. He hasn't thought it through

8 that far.

9 MR. BROWN: And I'm going to explore that

10 issue.

11 MR. TIGGES: Fine. What does that have

12 to do with who he hangs out with?

13 A. Do you want to know who I had dinner with

14 last night?

15 Q. Sure.

16 A. Janet and Danny Forrest at the Pig Iron

17 Barbecue on North High Street, above Graceland

18 Shopping Center. They've traveled with us on trips

19 and getting ready to head to D.C. and the Ohio State

20 game on Saturday.

21 Q. Would you potentially solicit them for

22 the money to pay your lawyers?

23 A. Probably not.

24 Q. Why not?


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1 A. They're both retired and probably not as

2 interested in this kind of thing politically.

3 Q. And they're friends of yours, right?

4 A. Yeah.

5 Q. So chances are you don't want to alienate

6 your friends by asking them for money; is that

7 correct?

8 A. That wouldn't be the reason.

9 Q. Would you ask your friends for the money?


11 A. I'd probably ask, first, people that I

12 know.

13 Q. I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. You said?

14 A. I would first probably ask people that I

15 know.

16 Q. Of course. Of course.

17 A. Yeah.

18 Q. But people you know rather than

19 friends; is that correct?

20 A. Well, sometimes you know friends and I

21 know a lot of people.

22 Q. Do you know anyone in the Kasich campaign

23 who might be interested in paying your lawyers'

24 attorneys' fees?


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1 A. I'm sorry. Ask me the question again.

2 Q. Do you know anyone in the Kasich

3 campaign, I'm sorry, my pronouncing of "Kasich" may

4 not be that good.

5 A. I mean, I know people directly and

6 indirectly, but I haven't gotten to that stage yet.

7 Q. Who do you know directly in the Kasich

8 campaign?

9 A. I mean lots of people.

10 Q. Can you name one?

11 A. Connie, I'm trying to remember her last

12 name, who is the Press Secretary.

13 Q. Do you know the Kasich campaign manager?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Who is that?

16 A. Matt Carle.

17 Q. How do you spell that last name?

18 A. C-a-r-l-e.

19 Q. Would he be someone that you might

20 approach about supplying money to your lawyers?


22 A. He might be, and a thousand other people

23 might be on the list. As I said, I haven't got to

24 that stage yet.


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1 Q. Would it be lawful for anyone in the

2 Kasich campaign to give you money to pay your

3 lawyers?


5 A. I don't know the answer to that legal

6 question.

7 Q. I think you testified earlier, Mr. Casey,

8 that you are an Ohio employee; is that correct?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And, again, who are you working for in

11 the State of Ohio?

12 A. You mean which agency am I with?

13 Q. Yes. I believe it was a board.


15 Q. Do you operate under an ethical code as

16 being a member of that board? Do you know?

17 A. We have briefings every year from the

18 Ohio Ethics Commission.

19 Q. Is it lawful, do you know, for a member

20 of that board to solicit political contributions?

21 A. There's two other people I'm on the board

22 with, Dwight Tillery, who's a former mayor of

23 Cincinnati and I know he's involved politically, a

24 Democrat by the way. Richard Lumpe, who's an


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1 independent, is active in the beer and wine

2 wholesalers, and I know he has fundraising events and

3 fundraising activities and contributions. So I know

4 they're both active politically. So, to my

5 knowledge, I wouldn't have prohibitions from being

6 politically active.

7 Q. Would it be legal for you to solicit

8 people who work for the State of Ohio to pay your

9 lawyers?

10 A. I haven't researched that, but I would

11 check that issue out.

12 Q. I'm just trying to narrow down the

13 potential universe of interested persons. Would they

14 have to be Ohio citizens? Do you know?


16 A. I don't know. I haven't researched it

17 legally fully.

18 Q. When are you going to begin soliciting

19 money to pay your lawyers?

20 A. Part of it, we're trying to figure out,

21 whenever this is over legally, and have a better idea

22 of what needs to be raised.

23 Q. That's part of it?

24 A. Yes.


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1 Q. What's the other part?

2 A. I think that's the main part.

3 Q. Is there a concern with you that it would

4 be bad press to disclose who is paying your lawyers?

5 Is that a concern of yours?

6 A. That isn't something that's been

7 primarily on my mind.

8 Q. So you're not worried about the press at

9 all in this case?

10 A. I didn't say that.

11 Q. Are you worried about the press?

12 A. On which issue?

13 Q. Just on this case. The press learning

14 that you and other Republicans are financing the

15 Felsoci protest; is that a concern of yours?

16 A. I haven't really thought through those

17 questions before.

18 Q. Are you going to solicit any

19 non-Republicans to pay your lawyers' fees?

20 A. Probably would.

21 Q. Have your lawyers expressed any concerns

22 about not being paid?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Then why did they send you an e-mail


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1 asking for payment as soon as possible?

2 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Mischaracterizes

3 the document. Why don't you pull it out.

4 MR. BROWN: Good idea, Steve.

5 MR. TIGGES: That's not what it said.

6 Q. If you look at, I think it's Exhibit 1.

7 A. Yeah, uh-huh.

8 Q. I believe that's the document.

9 A. Uh-huh.

10 Q. And I believe it says "I would appreciate

11 payment at your earliest opportunity"; is that

12 correct?

13 A. Uh-huh. Yeah.

14 Q. Doesn't that indicate that your lawyers

15 want to get paid early?

16 A. I'm not sure. Sometimes you get invoices

17 that say due immediately, due 30 days, sometimes

18 things are typed on there perfunctory sometimes.

19 Q. What's the hourly rate your lawyers are

20 charging you?

21 A. I think they're different rates depending

22 upon the lawyers.

23 Q. How about Mr. Zeiger?

24 A. You mean how much is his rate?


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1 Q. How much is his hourly rate that he's

2 charging you in this case?

3 A. I don't remember the exact number.

4 Q. Is it more than $500 an hour?

5 A. It's somewhere in that ballpark, but

6 whether it's four-something or five-something, I

7 don't remember the exact number.

8 Q. How about Mr. Tigges?

9 A. I don't remember his exact number.

10 Q. Is it less than Mr. Zeiger's?


12 Q. Is it about $450 an hour?

13 A. I don't know.

14 Q. Is it $1 an hour?


16 Q. So it's higher than that obviously.

17 A. Right.

18 Q. I'm just trying to get -- I think we can

19 get close, can't we? $200 an hour.

20 A. I don't remember the exact numbers.

21 Q. Did Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges indicate

22 how many hours they've already put into this case?

23 A. They haven't -- they don't give me

24 day-to-day updates or weekly updates.


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1 Q. But they do send you invoices.

2 A. They've given me a couple of them.

3 Q. Do the invoices state the number of hours

4 they've worked?

5 A. I'm trying to -- I think there was an

6 invoice that had a total number and I'm trying to

7 think whether I saw something that had more details,

8 but I don't recall the exact.

9 MR. BROWN: Just one second.

10 Q. Do you have a written agreement, contract

11 with your lawyers in this case?

12 A. No.

13 Q. So it's all oral, the agreement that you

14 have with your lawyers?

15 A. I don't know whether there's any other

16 option, but it's not written.

17 Q. Why not? Why do you not have a written

18 agreement with your lawyers?

19 A. I don't know.

20 Q. You said you have hired this law firm in

21 the past. Did you ever have a written agreement with

22 them before?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Have you ever hired any other lawyers?


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1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Did you ever have a written agreement

3 with them?

4 A. I think on having some estate, wills,

5 that kind of thing done, there was some, I'm trying

6 to remember the term, scope of services. There was

7 some kind of general thing, but -- and we discussed a

8 dollar amount, but I don't remember the exact

9 details.

10 Q. So does that mean you did have a written

11 agreement with these past lawyers?

12 A. I don't know whether you would call it an

13 "agreement." It might have been scope of engagement

14 or term of engagement, some sort of thing like that,

15 but I don't think it was a --

16 Q. Engagement letter or a letter agreement?

17 A. I forget the exact terminology.

18 Q. Is it your understanding that written

19 contracts with lawyers are the norm?

20 A. I don't know what's norm and what's not

21 the norm.

22 Q. But I think you said you have had lawyers

23 in the past. You're obviously a seasoned politician.

24 You must have had dealings with lawyers on a regular


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1 basis.

2 MR. TIGGES: Mr. Brown, your expression

3 of disbelief is inappropriate.

4 Go ahead and answer the question.

5 MR. BROWN: I move to strike Mr. Tigges'

6 comments. I'm not expressing any disbelief or

7 anything else to the witness. I'm not making facial

8 expressions at anyone.

9 MR. TIGGES: Go ahead and answer the

10 question.

11 Q. Please answer the question, Mr. Casey.

12 A. Could you repeat so I understand the

13 question?

14 Q. Well, you're obviously a seasoned

15 political consultant, who has done a good deal of

16 work in the realm of politics, and I think usually

17 that carries with it some work with lawyers, does it

18 not?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. So you are very familiar with the

21 practices of lawyers.

22 A. With some lawyers I've dealt with.

23 Q. And given your experience with lawyers,

24 isn't it the norm that there is a written agreement?


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2 answered.

3 A. My recollection, other than the personal

4 law thing that I mentioned recently, most lawyers

5 I've dealt with over time have not had a written

6 "terms of engagement" type of situation.

7 Q. Was it your decision not to have a

8 written contract influenced by your aversion to

9 publicity?

10 A. I'm sorry. There's about two or three

11 parts in the question. Can you break it down?

12 Q. Did you worry that your identity might be

13 disclosed somehow if you had a written agreement?

14 A. Well, it's partly about written agreement

15 and partly about publicity. So why don't we break it

16 into two different parts.

17 Q. Was it your concern that a written

18 agreement would lead to your identity being released?

19 MR. TIGGES: Objection. He didn't

20 identify any concern. You're mischaracterizing what

21 he said.

22 A. I'm still confused. There's two parts to

23 your question and you're asking for a conclusion and

24 there's two variables in there.


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1 Q. I think there's only one part to the

2 question.

3 MR. BROWN: Can you read that back,

4 Carolyn?

5 (Record read.)

6 A. Okay. You were asking about written

7 agreement and, as I indicated, in my general

8 experience politically, in most cases, other than

9 legal things, have not had a written agreement. So

10 that's one part of it.

11 And then I think the second part of it

12 was about publicity and my sense is that was not a

13 related -- or, the prime focus was on looking legally

14 at what was involved primarily with the Democrat

15 Party and what they were doing, Oscar Hatchett, and

16 also those kind of things. So that was the prime

17 interest and focus that I had.

18 Q. So you were not concerned at all about

19 the release of your identity; is that correct?

20 A. It wasn't the prime focus that I was

21 concerned about.

22 Q. Was it a focus?

23 A. I don't know. "A focus" could mean a

24 zillion things.


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1 Q. But you did go to great lengths to keep

2 your identity secret, did you not?

3 A. I never said that that was true.

4 Q. But you did go to great lengths, did you

5 not?


7 answered.

8 A. I don't know that I did.

9 Q. Your lawyers obviously did, did they not?

10 A. I don't know.

11 Q. Are you aware that we had to get a court

12 order to obtain your identity?

13 A. Not really. I mean, I indicated there

14 was some things going on legally, but . . .

15 Q. So you're not aware that a court order

16 was needed to obtain your identity?

17 A. I was not into that much detail on all

18 the battles at the court level or Magistrate Judge

19 Kemp, so I wasn't there for what he was doing on all

20 the details of what was going on there.

21 Q. So is it your testimony that you had no

22 idea that Judge Kemp ordered the disclosure of your

23 identity?

24 A. I think I was aware after the fact that


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1 those were part of the legal machinations.

2 Q. Was your decision not to pay your lawyers

3 a result of a fear that payment would disclose your

4 financial sources?

5 A. Repeat that question again because I'm

6 trying to --

7 Q. Was your failure to pay your lawyers

8 motivated by your fear of having your financial

9 sources disclosed?

10 A. I'm not sure --


12 A. -- if that was the -- the question's

13 confusing.

14 Q. Well, if you paid your lawyers, it would

15 have come out of your bank account, for example; is

16 that correct?

17 A. Maybe; maybe not.

18 Q. And if it came out of your bank account,

19 that would be disclosed, if you had paid your

20 lawyers.

21 A. I don't know.

22 Q. And if you got the money from the Ohio

23 Republican Party then that would have been disclosed;

24 is that correct?


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1 A. I don't know. I don't know how . . .

2 Q. Well, if you paid them, I would ask and

3 you would have to tell me.

4 A. I don't know.

5 Q. Is the reason you did not pay them

6 because you were afraid of my questions?

7 A. I didn't know what questions you were

8 going to ask.

9 (Laughter.)

10 MR. TIGGES: That's hilarious.

11 MR. BROWN: Steve, we don't need any

12 commentary, please.

13 Q. Was that your concern?

14 A. My concern about what?

15 Q. Is that one of the reasons you did not

16 pay your lawyers, that you were concerned that the

17 payment would be disclosed?

18 A. You're asking me hypotheticals on

19 mindsets. Your question is confusing me.

20 Q. I'm not asking any hypotheticals. I'm

21 asking if your concern -- it's not hypothetical, this

22 is your concern -- whether your concern was that

23 paying your lawyers would lead to the disclosure of

24 the actual payments.


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2 A. It really wasn't a concern and an issue

3 that I was thinking much about.

4 Q. Were your lawyers thinking about that?

5 A. I can't answer for them.

6 Q. What approximate date have your lawyers

7 given you for making some payment?


9 A. We haven't really got into discussing

10 that.

11 Q. Are your lawyers -- strike that.

12 MR. BROWN: Just give me one minute.

13 (Off the record.)

14 (Recess taken.)

15 Q. (By Mr. Brown) Good afternoon, again,

16 Mr. Casey. We're back after a short break.

17 Did you stopped consulting for John

18 Kasich because you were appointed to a position on

19 the, I'm sorry, the board's name?


21 Q. Is that why you stop consulting with John

22 Kasich?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Is there a prohibition on your consulting


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1 with John Kasich because you are on a state board?

2 A. I don't think there's a prohibition or a

3 limitation. The main reason was I was involved in --

4 August, September, and October with a special project

5 which was debate preparation, I was doing research

6 on, and played Ted Strickland on the debate prep

7 against John Kasich. So, obviously, after the

8 election there was no need for more debate prep.

9 Q. And that's when your consultation ended

10 because --

11 A. Yes. Right.

12 Q. Have you considered consulting with

13 Kasich again for this election cycle?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Has Kasich asked you to?

16 A. No. Well, let me -- I think Matt Carle

17 has asked me to -- he was not the campaign manager

18 then, but he's asked me to, if there's debates, to be

19 Ed FitzGerald and prepare for such debate and doing

20 such dress rehearsals.

21 Q. Are you frequently described in the press

22 as being an advisor to John Kasich?

23 A. No. When I do TV shows it usually says

24 Republican analyst or Republican strategist or


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1 something like that.

2 Q. Have you ever been described as an

3 advisor to John Kasich recently?

4 A. Not recently.

5 Q. Not after January 1st, 2014?

6 A. No. Uh-uh.

7 Q. Are you like me, do you cut out all the

8 clippings that mention your name?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Do you know Katie Eagan?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Who is Katie Eagan?

13 A. I think she's the Political Director of

14 the Ohio Republican Party.

15 Q. And how do you know her?

16 A. Oh, I think I met her at the state party

17 a couple, three years ago, we did, I think, a

18 project, some initial research on some of the

19 potential candidates in the latter part of 2012, who

20 might be running in '14.

21 Q. Have you spoken or communicated with

22 Katie Eagan in any way since January 1st, 2014?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. When was the last time you spoke or


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1 communicated with Ms. Eagan?

2 A. It's probably been -- I think it was

3 probably on August 1st.

4 Q. Why did you speak with Ms. Eagan on

5 August 1st?

6 A. That day, it was a Friday, I was driving

7 to Charlottesville, Virginia, to see our grandsons,

8 and there was the breaking news on FitzGerald and his

9 4:30 in the morning situation. She was going to be

10 on the Channel 10 show that afternoon, right around

11 the time FitzGerald was having a news conference.

12 And she was basically filling me, since I

13 was on the road driving, on what had happened that

14 afternoon, and how Channel 10 was moving the taping

15 of the show from the normal time of 3:30 in the

16 afternoon to 7:00 p.m. in evening. So she was kind

17 of giving me background on what had happened since I

18 was on the road, out of town.

19 Q. Do you speak with her often?

20 A. Not that often.

21 Q. Did you speak with her back in February

22 of 2014 at any time?

23 A. I might -- I'm trying to remember,

24 because she started doing some of the Channel 10


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1 shows and -- but she also was pregnant and getting

2 ready to do maternity leave. So I might have chatted

3 about the general TV shows and topics or questions or

4 issues, but that would be about it.

5 Q. Did you ever talk to her about Charlie

6 Earl's part-petitions?

7 A. I don't recall, no.

8 Q. Did you ask her to obtain Charlie Earl's

9 part-petitions from the Secretary of State?

10 A. I don't think I did. And, again, I can't

11 recall whether she was working at that stage, because

12 I don't remember the exact timing on her pregnancy

13 and the birth of the baby.

14 Q. Do you know if she did, in fact, obtain

15 Charlie Earl's part-petitions from the Secretary of

16 State?

17 A. I don't know.

18 Q. Do you know Chris Schrimpf? And I better

19 spell that one. S-c-h-r-i-m-p-f.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Who is Mr. Schrimpf?

22 A. I don't know whether he's got the title

23 of Press Secretary or Communications Director with

24 the state party.


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1 Q. And that would be the Ohio Republican

2 Party; is that correct?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. When was the last time you spoke with

5 Mr. Schrimpf?


7 A. It might have been on or around that

8 August 1st FitzGerald stuff or it might have been the

9 week or two after that, I forget exactly. But he's a

10 person, when I've got topics on the TV show that I'll

11 keep him and there's a bunch of other people in

12 informed of here's topics we're talking about, and

13 sometimes I'm looking for information because

14 sometimes it might be a subject like Common Core that

15 I'm not as familiar with, so sometimes he'll be

16 somebody that I'll try and look for background or

17 information on.

18 Q. Did you speak or communicate in any way

19 with Mr. Schrimpf in February of 2014?

20 A. I'm sure I talked to him sometime in that

21 period, but I don't remember topics and discussions.

22 Q. Did you talk to him about Charlie Earl's

23 part-petitions?

24 A. I'm sure -- well, I know I didn't talk to


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1 him before February 10th, because I was out of the

2 country. And I'm sure, either by e-mail or phone, I

3 had some conversations because, as I mentioned to

4 you, after coming back on Monday, February 10th, I

5 had three different TV shows that weekend, I think

6 Channel 4 was taped on Thursday evening, and I think

7 Thursday morning, Channel 10 -- or, excuse me, Friday

8 morning, Channel 10; Friday afternoon was WOSU TV.

9 So I had three different shows that I was doing. So

10 I think the topic, I don't know whether the topic

11 came up then or later in February.

12 Q. Did you ever instruct Mr. Schrimpf,

13 that's a hard name to say, to obtain Charlie Earl's

14 part-petitions from the Secretary of State?

15 A. I don't remember talking to him about

16 that, I don't.

17 Q. Do you know Scott Guthrie?

18 A. Scott Guthrie?

19 Q. Yes.

20 A. I think he works for Josh Mandel, the

21 State Treasurer.

22 Q. Is he also with the Ohio Republican Party

23 in any capacity, do you know?

24 A. I've read things in the paper that say


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1 he's doing something with him, but I don't know the

2 details.

3 Q. Have you ever spoken with Mr. Guthrie or

4 communicated with him?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. When is the last time you've spoken or

7 communicated with him?

8 A. Probably was sometime last week.

9 Q. Do you remember what that conversation

10 was about?

11 A. Henry Gomez had an interview with Connie

12 Pillich who is running for State Treasurer, and there

13 was reference and questions on the role of the State

14 Treasurer vis-à-vis pension funds in Ohio, and

15 whether they were mere custodians or whether they

16 controlled the pension funds.

17 Q. Did you ever speak with him in February

18 of 2014?

19 A. No.

20 Q. Do you know Doug Preisse?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And I believe that's spelled,

23 P-r-e-i-s-s-e; is that correct?

24 A. With an "e" on the end.


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1 Q. With an "e" on the end.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. How do you know Mr. Preisse?

4 A. He's the county Republican Chairman here.

5 There's kind of two of them. Doug Preisse is

6 Chairman of, I forget whether it's Executive and

7 Central, and Brad Sinnott is Chairman of Executive, I

8 forget which one is which, but they're both kind of

9 party chairmen here.

10 Q. I'm sorry, how long have you known Doug

11 Preisse?

12 A. 10, 15 years, could be 18, could be 14,

13 I'm not sure exactly, but it's a while.

14 Q. Do you communicate with him often?

15 A. He'll be a person generally because he's

16 on the Board of Elections here in Franklin County

17 that I'll include as part of mass e-mails or group

18 e-mails.

19 Q. Is he an interested person who might

20 supply you money to pay your lawyers?

21 A. He's someone I'd want to talk to, yes.

22 Q. Have you talked to him, yet, about paying

23 your lawyers?

24 A. No.


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1 Q. When was the last conversation you had

2 with Doug Preisse?

3 A. You mean phone conversation?

4 Q. Any kind of conversation, communication

5 of any kind, person, phone, e-mail, text.

6 A. No text recently. I'm trying to think.

7 There probably was an e-mail on something politically

8 in the last two or three weeks, but I don't remember

9 exactly what it was about.

10 Q. Did you ever speak to him in February of

11 2014?

12 A. I probably did, because I was looking for

13 if he knew of any people in Franklin County who were

14 Libertarian, potentially, to be a part of a protest.

15 Q. So you did discuss the protest with him

16 in February of 2014; is that correct?

17 A. He probably was one of the persons that I

18 had some discussion with on it.

19 Q. Did you know, when you spoke with

20 Mr. Preisse, that you, yourself, could not file the

21 challenge to Charlie Earl?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. How did you know that? At the time you

24 spoke with Mr. Preisse how did you know that?


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1 A. I've just known from experience that on a

2 protest, because I was on the Board of Elections in

3 Franklin County for 14 years, that if you're going to

4 have a protest for Republican, you got to have a

5 Republican doing it; if it's a Democrat, a Democrat;

6 a Libertarian, a Libertarian; a Green Party, a Green

7 Party.

8 Q. So your understanding is it had to be a

9 Libertarian who challenged Charlie Earl.

10 A. Well, I've had different people tell me

11 different things at different times. Some will say

12 it has be somebody who is a member of the party, some

13 will say somebody who is not affiliated, so I'm not

14 sure the exact legal answer.

15 Q. In your opinion is it fair to say that

16 the Republican Party, the Franklin County Republican

17 Party, or the Ohio State Republican Party was

18 interested in challenging Charlie Earl's candidacy?

19 A. You're asking me to speak for all those

20 entities and what's on their mind?

21 Q. Yes.

22 A. I don't know whether I can quite, because

23 as you might know, the Republican Party has a lot of

24 different people with a lot of different opinions, so


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1 I don't know that I can speak for all those entities.

2 Q. But you are a Republican strategist; is

3 that not correct?

4 A. I'm called that at times, yes.

5 Q. So who else would know Republican

6 strategy, but you, correct?

7 A. Well, I don't know that I'm the sole and

8 exclusive authority; far from it.

9 Q. Did you ever talk to Matt Borges about

10 your protest?


12 A. I don't think I talked to him until it

13 was after something was decided by the Secretary of

14 State and it kind of was going over to federal court.

15 That's my rough recollection.

16 Q. Do you remember exactly, not exactly, but

17 around the time you spoke with Mr. Borges?

18 A. I think it would have been around,

19 whenever the -- if the Secretary of State made a

20 decision, I'm trying to remember whether it was

21 Friday the 7th, and then I think things were headed

22 to federal court the next week. So I don't know

23 whether it was -- my rough guess would be it was

24 sometime that latter week in March.


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1 Q. So it would have been while the case was

2 in federal court that you spoke with Matt Borges.

3 A. That would be my recollection, yes.

4 Q. Is it your testimony that you, on your

5 own initiative, solicited a Libertarian Party member

6 to challenge Charlie Earl?

7 A. I'm the one that called Mr. Felsoci, yes.

8 Q. And you did not discuss doing that with

9 anyone else, it was completely your decision; is that

10 correct?

11 A. Well, I was looking and asking a number

12 of different people in different counties, and there

13 were names given, people were looking for names, but

14 I remember Felsoci was one name; there was another

15 individual, I can't remember the name, who might have

16 been not affiliated, but not a -- he had not voted

17 Libertarian.

18 Q. Have you ever done anything that was

19 completely inconsistent with the Ohio Republican

20 Party's policies and principles?

21 A. There's probably -- are you talking about

22 the platform of the Ohio Republican Party or the

23 platform of the national Republican Party?

24 Q. The state party.


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1 A. The state party?

2 Q. Yes, sir.

3 A. I really haven't read lately, I don't

4 even know whether they still even adopt a platform,

5 but my guess is there's probably some things where I

6 personally believe aren't quite exactly a hundred

7 percent matched with everything that everybody in the

8 Republican Party believes.

9 Q. But you are a true Republican; is that

10 correct?

11 A. I don't know what the term "true

12 Republican" means.

13 Q. You're an ardent Republican.

14 A. "Ardent," like "true," is a term of art.

15 I'm not sure it's a precise legal definition.

16 Q. Would you consciously do something that

17 was inconsistent with Governor Kasich's reelection

18 effort?

19 A. Would I consciously do something?

20 Q. To harm his reelection effort.

21 A. I support him and think he's been a good

22 Governor.

23 Q. Would you ever do anything to consciously

24 hurt his reelection?


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1 A. I don't think I'd do that, but that

2 doesn't mean I agree with everything he says or does.

3 Q. Sure. Sure. I understand that. But you

4 would not have challenged Charlie Earl if you thought

5 it would hurt Kasich's campaign effort; is that

6 correct?

7 A. Ask me that question one more time.

8 Q. You would not have challenged Charlie

9 Earl, as a protestor, if you thought it would hurt

10 John Kasich.

11 A. Probably not. That wasn't the main

12 motivation, but probably would not do that.

13 Q. Did your protest help Kasich?

14 A. I don't know. It's not over.

15 Q. But Charlie Earl is not on the ballot; is

16 that correct?

17 A. As of today.

18 Q. Do you expect Kasich to benefit by

19 Charlie Earl not being on the ballot?

20 A. I've heard different opinions, from

21 different sources, who it benefits. So I haven't

22 studied it in detail, scientifically, to know for

23 certain.

24 Q. What is your opinion? I know you're a


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1 seasoned political consultant. In your professional

2 opinion, what do you think?

3 A. I'd have to go back, and I don't know

4 whether Quinnipiac ever did a poll that looked at

5 Charlie Earl and then looked at the cross-tabs to see

6 how much he drew form Republican, Democrat, or

7 Independent. So I got to -- normally people ask me

8 that question, I'd rather have polling data and then

9 look at it and look at the cross-tabs in order to

10 give a more scientific answer.

11 Q. You said you were out of the country for

12 a while.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Where did you go?

15 A. Australia and New Zealand.

16 Q. How long were you gone?

17 A. We left on January 9th or 10th and

18 returned on February 10th.

19 Q. So you were here in November and December

20 of 2013; is that correct?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Did you follow SB 193?

23 A. Not really.

24 Q. Were you aware that the Ohio Republicans


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1 in the House and Senate were attempting to

2 statutorily remove the Libertarian Party from the

3 ballot?

4 A. I don't know whether that law would have

5 done that or not. I know it changed some of those

6 things, but I didn't, to be honest, as we were doing

7 TV shows in that period, the issue didn't really come

8 up that much and I didn't really focus in on the

9 detail of the laws as it was moving through the

10 legislature.

11 Q. Did you ever discuss with any legislators

12 or Governor Kasich, SB 193, and its impact on the

13 Libertarian Party?

14 A. I don't think so. You say, is it SB 193?

15 Q. Yes, it's SB 193.

16 A. Okay. Not that I can recall. Well, I

17 know definitely not with the Governor. There's 132

18 different legislators, but I don't recall.

19 Q. Did you ever discuss it with Bill Seitz?

20 Is that how you pronounce it?

21 A. Seitz. No. I've talked to him earlier

22 on lots of other things, because I've known him over

23 the years, but nothing whatsoever at that point in

24 the legislative cycle.


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1 Q. You understand that the vote on SB 193

2 was along party lines completely? Was that your

3 understanding?

4 A. I didn't follow it that closely.

5 Q. Would it surprise you to know that's what

6 happened?

7 A. There's a lot of things in the

8 legislature that surprise me and some things that

9 don't. Again, I just didn't --

10 Q. Why would all the Republicans vote in

11 favor of that and all the Democrats vote against it?


13 speculation.

14 A. I don't know. I just didn't follow it

15 that closely.

16 Q. Doesn't it prove that removal of the

17 Libertarian Party candidates favors the Republicans,

18 at least in their minds?

19 A. I don't know. I didn't follow the bill,

20 and what some legislators think things will benefit

21 or harm and what it really does, sometimes there's a

22 correlation and sometimes there's not.

23 Q. I think you said earlier that in your

24 experience as a member of the Franklin County BOE,


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1 Board of Elections, protestors had to be of the same

2 party as the candidate being protested in the context

3 of primaries; is that correct?

4 A. That's the general context I remember,

5 but I'm not sure of legal rulings, law changes since

6 that point. And, again, I'm not a lawyer and I

7 haven't studied the issue. I mean that's a

8 generality.

9 Q. But, in general, state law, your

10 understanding, requires that the protestor be of the

11 same political party; is that correct?

12 A. I'm not sure what the statute says,

13 whether it says you have to be a member of the party

14 or you can't be a member of another party. So I

15 don't remember the exact statute.

16 Q. But that's why you needed a Libertarian,

17 in your opinion, in your mind; is that correct?

18 A. In my view that was the best situation to

19 have.

20 Q. I believe there was also an unaffiliated

21 voter who initially joined in Mr. Felsoci's protest;

22 is that correct?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Do you remember who that was?


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1 A. I was going to say Greg, but that's

2 Felsoci's first name. Scott, I can't remember

3 exactly.

4 Q. I forgot too, Mr. Casey. Did you recruit

5 him also? We can find his name if you'd like.

6 A. Yeah. Yeah, I talked to him.

7 Q. How did you get -- how did you contact

8 him?

9 A. There was somebody, and I can't remember

10 the name who knew the person and they gave me his

11 name and number, and I followed up, and he was

12 willing to be helpful. I know he had an office out

13 near Easton because I went out with some of the

14 paperwork and met with him.

15 Q. So you actually met with him.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. This would have been about the same time

18 that you met with Mr. Felsoci?

19 MR. TIGGES: Object to the

20 characterization.

21 A. I never met Mr. Felsoci.

22 Q. I'm sorry. That you called Mr. Felsoci.

23 A. It was sometime in that period.

24 Q. Was he dismissed from the protest, do you


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1 know, the unaffiliated voter?

2 A. I don't remember the mechanics that the

3 lawyers did.

4 Q. So you don't know whether he was

5 dismissed or not?

6 A. That sounds generally correct, but I

7 don't know the exact mechanics and timing.

8 Q. Did you pay this unaffiliated voter?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Did the unaffiliated voter, to your

11 knowledge, pay your lawyers?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Were you paying his lawyers' fees too?

14 A. My sense, it was all part of the same

15 general legal effort.

16 Q. So you agreed to pay his lawyers' fees

17 just as you agreed to pay Gregory Felsoci's lawyers'

18 fees; is that correct.

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. Have you paid any of his lawyers' fees

21 yet?

22 A. Which person?

23 Q. The unaffiliated, I'm sorry, I think his

24 name is Scott Tyler.


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1 A. I haven't seen any bill come through for

2 him.

3 Q. Are you prepared to pay it when it comes

4 through?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And how are you going to pay it?

7 A. My sense is it won't be very much because

8 I don't think much was done for him.

9 Q. Are you going to pay that out of your own

10 bank account?

11 A. I haven't got to that stage yet.

12 Q. Are you going to solicit interested

13 persons?

14 A. Probably.

15 Q. Why do you think state law prohibits

16 members from one party from protesting the candidacy

17 of another?



20 A. I don't remember the exact legislative

21 history, but it's -- it's kind of been there,

22 directly or indirectly part of the law for a while.

23 But, again, I don't know exactly the state of the law

24 right now.


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1 Q. I believe you testified earlier that you

2 did have communications with Matt Damschroder before

3 the protest was filed on February 21; is that

4 correct?

5 A. Some communications, yes.

6 Q. Did you ask Matt Damschroder to make sure

7 that the Secretary of State's office stayed open

8 after 4:00 p.m. to receive a late protest filed by

9 you?

10 A. I don't recall that I would have asked

11 that because I thought the time deadline was

12 4:00 p.m. statutorily.

13 Q. That is correct, it is 4:00 p.m.

14 statutorily.

15 A. Right.

16 Q. So you don't recall ever asking him to

17 stay open just in case your protest was not filed at

18 4:00?

19 A. I can't imagine asking that question

20 because if 4:00 is the deadline, 4:00 is the

21 deadline.

22 Q. But you did give him advance notice that

23 the protest was on its way; is that correct?

24 A. I don't know whether I gave him advance


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1 notice or not.

2 Q. Do you know who actually filed the

3 Felsoci protest?

4 A. My recollection --

5 Q. Physically, I mean.

6 A. My recollection, Dan Mead did.

7 Q. Do you recollect who filed the protest

8 against Linnabary, by chance?

9 A. I have no idea.

10 Q. Do you know if the protest against

11 Linnabary was coordinated in any way with your

12 efforts against Charlie Earl?

13 A. "Coordinated." I've got a few vague

14 little recollections, but I don't know what resulted

15 on the AG's campaign. I don't know what they were

16 doing or not doing. I know I had mentioned something

17 to a political friend who I knew knew some people in

18 the AG's office, but the last I'd heard it seemed

19 like they weren't going to do anything, and then I

20 kind of got the vibe or something that something was

21 going to be done and then found out they actually

22 filed.

23 Q. Do you happen to remember the political

24 friend's name?


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1 A. Mike Keegan.

2 Q. And you said it was the AG's campaign

3 that you had been considering?

4 A. No. I just knew he knew some people

5 connected to the AG or the AG's campaign. And I

6 think basically I shared with him that we discovered

7 Mr. Hatchett and all of his problems and that he had

8 apparently done a lot of the signatures for Linnabary

9 or whoever the AG candidate was.

10 Q. So it was the AG campaign, on its own,

11 that filed the challenge against Linnabary with no

12 connection to you at all.

13 A. Well, I didn't know they filed until they

14 actually filed, if that's your question.

15 Q. Yes.

16 Was Doug Preisse involved with that? Do

17 you know?

18 A. I don't know whether he was or not.

19 Q. I mean with the AG's filing.

20 A. I don't know. I don't know.

21 Q. Did anyone acting on behalf of the Ohio

22 Republican Party or Matt Borges or the Franklin

23 County Republican Party assist you in any way in

24 protesting Charlie Earl?


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1 A. Wait a minute. I was focusing. You had

2 three different, Franklin County, state party.

3 Q. Matt Borges.

4 A. Well, that's kind of one and the same,

5 either Franklin County or state party, and then what

6 was the rest of the question?

7 Q. Did anyone connected with the state

8 party, Franklin County party, or Matt Borges, have

9 anything to do with assisting you in your protest

10 against Charlie Earl?


12 A. I don't think Borges because I really

13 didn't communicate with him. I know I talked to Doug

14 in looking for a Libertarian and also sharing with

15 him some of the problems we discovered on the

16 questions with the Democrat Party and their

17 operatives being involved in things. So I know I

18 shared some of that.

19 Q. So Doug Preisse, is he the only one?


21 A. Yeah, I'm not sure whether we found

22 things on Hatchett or, as we were looking for other

23 things like that, at what point I reached out.

24 Again, sometimes as there'd be developments, I'd do


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1 some blast e-mails out and that kind of thing.

2 Q. But you did reach out to Doug Preisse for

3 any assistance.

4 A. Right. On the Libertarian person, yes.

5 Q. And the "Libertarian person" would be

6 Charlie Earl; is that correct?

7 A. It was primarily about, I think, the

8 Gubernatorial thing.

9 Q. Was there anybody else that was helping

10 you, assisting you in finding a Libertarian

11 protestor?

12 A. I reached out to a bunch of other

13 political people, like I mentioned, Lucas County,

14 Cuyahoga County, Summit County, there might have been

15 some other counties, looking for Libertarians who

16 might be potential folks.

17 Q. Anybody else in Franklin County, do you

18 remember?

19 A. I don't think I talked to Brad Sinnott.

20 I think I talked to Doug.

21 Q. Did anybody ever say to you "Stop it;

22 don't do this"?

23 A. Not that I know of.

24 Q. So you reached out to, they're all


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1 Republicans, I assume; is that correct?

2 A. I think so, yeah.

3 Q. And not one of them ever said "Don't do

4 this"?

5 A. I don't remember anybody saying that.

6 Q. Did the leadership in the Franklin County

7 Republican Party know you were doing this?

8 A. I talked to Doug, but I didn't talk to

9 Brad Sinnott, so I don't know whether anybody else

10 did or not.

11 Q. Did the leadership in the Ohio Republican

12 Party know you were doing this?

13 A. I'm not sure what they knew or didn't

14 know.

15 Q. Did Matt Borges know you were doing this?

16 A. I don't know.

17 Q. Who else might have known you were doing

18 this?


20 speculation.

21 A. I mean I know --

22 Q. To your knowledge, of course. To your

23 knowledge.

24 A. Right. Right. Right. What --


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1 MR. TIGGES: Wait a minute. Stop.

2 What's the question?

3 MR. BROWN: Can you read back the

4 question?

5 MR. TIGGES: You said might and then you

6 said to his knowledge, and the two are fundamentally

7 inconsistent.

8 MR. BROWN: Why don't you read back the

9 question. Go ahead, Carolyn.

10 (Record read.)

11 MR. BROWN: I was trying to respond to

12 Steve's objection on speculation. I only want

13 Mr. Casey to answer to what he knows.

14 THE WITNESS: Right.

15 MR. TIGGES: So what's the question? Are

16 you asking him who he knows?

17 MR. BROWN: Carolyn, can you read the

18 question?

19 MR. TIGGES: Fine. Go ahead. I don't

20 care.

21 (Record read.)

22 MR. TIGGES: The question's

23 objectionable. Same objection. Calls for

24 speculation.


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1 A. I'm not sure who else would have known

2 because I was kind of spreading the network out in

3 terms of both kind of sharing my surprise over the

4 whole Oscar Hatchett, Democrat Party stuff, because I

5 thought it was pretty amazing that the Democrat Party

6 would be that involved in trying to literally

7 manipulate, prop up, run, almost, the Libertarian

8 Party. So I mean I shared with a lot of people how

9 shocked and surprised I was.

10 Q. Sure. So you sent this information to a

11 lot of people.

12 A. Right. Yes.

13 Q. And did anyone ever object?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Given the fact that you sent it to many

16 people, Matt Borges must have known; is that correct?


18 speculation.

19 A. I don't know what -- I haven't gone back

20 and said, "Matt, what did you know and when?" I've

21 never had that discussion with him.

22 Q. Was he on your e-mail list?

23 A. Probably.

24 Q. So if he would have been in one of the


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1 blasts, he would have known, if he read the e-mails,

2 of course.

3 A. Well, again, I don't know. You send out

4 e-mails and most of the time you never hear from

5 anybody.

6 Q. Does Matt ever respond to any of your

7 e-mails?

8 A. Sometimes he does.

9 Q. And again, frankly, you are a well-known

10 political consultant and a well-respected political

11 consultant, so people read your e-mails, don't they?


13 speculation.

14 A. I like the "well-respected part." If I

15 can get that certified, that would be good to have.

16 I don't know how many people read, you know, whether

17 it's on political things or on travel things or the

18 grandchildren, I send out a lot of things to a lot of

19 people, and sometimes you never hear anything and

20 sometimes I'm surprised and pleased by people that

21 give nice feedback.

22 Q. But your blasts about the protests were

23 sent out before the protest was filed.

24 A. Oh, sure, yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean,


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1 I literally hate to be so blunt, but was salivating

2 over all this intrigue with Ian James, people at the

3 Ohio Democrat Party, and then I was really shocked at

4 the hearing on, was it the 28th, you were there, to

5 hear about this breakfast with Redfern and the

6 Libertarian Party and all those other things. I mean

7 it was, to be honest, I'd never seen anything like

8 that in my life. I was surprised.

9 Q. So you made sure you sent that

10 information far and wide.

11 A. Yes. Yeah. Including, during the course

12 of the hearing, "The Dispatch" had a story out about

13 the morning activities, and sent that out to a big

14 bunch of folks, too, because this, I thought, it was

15 real intriguing news.

16 Q. And, of course, all the leadership of the

17 Ohio Republican Party would have been involved in

18 that blast, right?


20 A. I sent it out to a lot of folks; whether

21 they read it, what they thought of it, I don't know.

22 MR. BROWN: Just one second, Mr. Casey.

23 THE WITNESS: Oh, sure.

24 MR. BROWN: Mr. Casey, thank you very


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1 much. It's been a pleasure.

2 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

3 MR. BROWN: And I think I'll turn you

4 over now to Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges and Ms. Coontz.

5 MS. COONTZ: I have no questions.

6 MR. TIGGES: We'll read.

7 (The deposition concluded at 5:23 p.m.)

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1 State of Ohio : : SS:

2 County of ___________________ :

3 I, Terry Casey, do hereby certify that I have read the foregoing transcript of my deposition given

4 on Thursday, August 28, 2014; that together with the correction page attached hereto noting changes in

5 form or substance, if any, it is true and correct.

6

7 ____________________________ Terry Casey

8

9 I do hereby certify that the foregoing transcript of the deposition of Terry Casey was

10 submitted to the witness for reading and signing; that after he had stated to the undersigned Notary

11 Public that he had read and examined his deposition, he signed the same in my presence on the ________ day

12 of ______________________, 2014.

13 __________________________

14 Notary Public

15

16 My commission expires _________________, ________.

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1 CERTIFICATE

2 State of Ohio : : SS:

3 County of Franklin :

4 I, Carolyn M. Burke, Notary Public in and for the State of Ohio, duly commissioned and qualified,

5 certify that the within named Terry Casey was by me duly sworn to testify to the whole truth in the cause

6 aforesaid; that the testimony was taken down by me in stenotypy in the presence of said witness, afterwards

7 transcribed upon a computer; that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of the testimony given by

8 said witness taken at the time and place in the foregoing caption specified and completed without

9 adjournment.

10 I certify that I am not a relative, employee, or attorney of any of the parties hereto, or of any

11 attorney or counsel employed by the parties, or financially interested in the action.

12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my

13 hand and affixed my seal of office at Columbus, Ohio, on this 5th day of September, 2014.

14

15 _______________________________ Carolyn M. Burke, Registered

16 Professional Reporter, and Notary Public in and for the

17 State of Ohio.

18 My commission expires July 17, 2018.

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Terry Casey IN THE UNITED STATES ... - Moritz College of Lawmoritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/documents/Lib2712.pdf · EASTERN DIVISION - - - Libertarian Party of Ohio, : et