T10D Laura Knight Jadczyk

8/7/2019 T10D Laura Knight Jadczyk

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Disclaimer

About researchers and whistleblowers :

We, Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan, do not necessarily agree with or endorse all of the views

presented here. What Camelot is about is the investigation into the mysteries that surround

us. We are all, in a sense, investigators of our world. And while we, as individuals, may not

agree with everything presented on our site, we fully support freedom of thought and speechas well as the Quest for truth.

31 December 2008

Laura knight-jadczyk - The Cassiopaeans

Laura Knight-Jadczyk | The Cassiopaeans

Los Angeles, April 2010 | .mp3 | .mov

I went to France in February to interview Laura Knight-Jadczyk. She lives in an 18th centuryFrench chateau with her extended family. She and her company--both operate out of this

splendid but ancient building. Heating 10 foot ceilings is not an option so in winter, Laura and

her crew gather in the old fashioned kitchen around the wood burning stove to eat and share

stories.

We were privileged to be guests there for a couple of days during the filming of this

fascinating interview. Laura is a brilliant researcher into the nature of consciousness, the

matrix and the underlying psychology of pathology. In addition, she has created a unique

approach that she calls "critical channeling" to a recurring telepathic contact with an ET group

who call themselves the Cassiopaeans who said to her "we are you in the future."

Using a Ouija board (also known as a spirit board) and a small group of people, she made

contact and then in a series of controlled experiments verified the level of material she was

receiving (whether her source could be trusted) by asking questions then researching the

answers and checking on the veracity and intention of the source in predicting future events...

In touch with this source for roughly 16 years, she and a small group of people have

accumulated a vast amount of information. She has never stopped questioning or researching

what she is getting.

Laura's intelligence is tenacious and uncompromising. Her inquiry into the supernatural, past

lives, and the unknown has taken her down many roads. Along the way, she became ahypnotist, an exorcist and a highly perceptive chronicler of what it means to be human.

Highly recommended:

Thomas French article "The Exorcist", St. Petersburg Times,

Websites:

Cassiopaean Experiment

Sott.net

Laura's new breathing and meditation video


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Interview TRANSCRIPT

Laura Knight-Jadczyk | The Cassiopaeans

Los Angeles, April 2010 | .mp3 | .mov

KERRY CASSIDY (KC): So Laura, it is wonderful to be here at your French chateau.

Im Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot Productions and we are here with Laura Knight-Jadczyk

and shes got a huge body of work that Im amazed by. Youre intellectually very astute;

youre an amazing researcher. Youre also a wonderful channel, if you want to call yourself a

channel, kind of a loose term.

LAURA KNIGHT-JADCZYK (LKJ): I avoid that term.

KC: Okay, fine. Ive studied your work and Im really impressed.

LKJ: Thank you.

KC: And thats why were here today, because we want to hear more about it. I want to

introduce you to the world that doesnt know about you. I want them to learn what youre

really about.

Give your own introduction of yourself.

LKJ: Well, I guess it depends on the individual. Some people are very happy to be asked to talk

about themselves and I dont really like to talk about myself that much because Ive spent

most of my life putting the attention on other people.

I guess thats why we live here as we do, rather privately, so that I can work because I work

best when Im not disturbed by, you know, unforeseen events. If my family is around me and

happy, then Im happy and I work well, so thats how I live, with my family, so that I can

concentrate on my work.

So, right away, I didnt say anything about myself, did I?

KC: No, but youre doing very well anyway because youre giving us a little background to who

you really are and what youre motivated by.

What would be great is to hear a little bit about your intellectual history because youre an

amazing writer and youre very clear. Youre very clear in the way you think. Thats what Ive

gathered from reading your work and I think that thats a special skill.

And so maybe you could talk about just the very basics, because some people out there are

going to want to know. Did you graduate from college? You know, that kind of thing.

LKJ: No, I didnt graduate from college. I had children instead and thats a fairly common story

for many very bright, intelligent women who are brought up to take care of other people

they have children or they have families. We were taught that thats the most important thing


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for a woman my generation was taught that and when the family comes along, everything

else gets put aside.

It was rather difficult for me because I did have a very powerful curiosity. Its been described

by other people as an epic curiosity and I would say that if anything describes me, its

curiosity. Im a walking question-mark. I literally want to know everything, and I know that its

impossible to know everything, but I want to grab everything I can as long as Im alive.

I did go to college. I was kind of a professional student for two or three years. But then, like Isaid, I had a baby and that was the end of my college career, but it wasnt the end of my

intellectual pursuits because I had developed the habit as a very young child of reading

approximately an entire book every day.

That really started after I had been in seventh grade when I was, what, 13 years old? We had a

teacher who taught us to speed-read, which was a very clever thing. He had a machine that

he brought into class and taught everybody to speed-read. I thought this was the greatest

thing since sliced bread because I can read very, very fast, and I was blessed with a

photographic memory so that I could not only read but I could remember everything I read.

KC: Mm hm.

LKJ: This was very handy at test time because I could pull everything out of my memory for

taking tests.

So, you know, I was very good at taking tests but I was really bad at doing homework,

because, for me, homework was just drudgery. Why should I sit there and write down for

somebody else, you know, to prove that I have done this busy-work? It didnt interest me. I

mean, I had read the book, I had the material in my head; I didnt see any point in belaboring

it. I wanted to go to the next thing. So I didnt turn in a lot of homework but I made As on all

my tests, so that kind of confused teachers who like things to be done by the book.

So I continued this habit all through the time my children were little, and as Ive written, at the

point that Id had my fourth child, I was bedridden. So not only did I pursue my habit of

reading as much as I possibly could, but I got into some other things because there was a lot

of stress in my life. So, I began practicing things like meditation and so on and so forth.

KC: And how old were you approximately during this time, when you started mediating?

LKJ: When I started meditating? Lets see, my fourth child was born in 1985, so that would be

when I started meditating.

KC: Mm hm. And how did that go for you?

LKJ: Well, I had extraordinary results in a very short period of time and thats a whole other

story because weve developed a meditation, a breathing meditation program, based on the

technique that I developed more or less on my own, which is based on reading some material

about meditation.

It was a combination of meditative techniques and hypnotherapeutic techniques, because I

had also trained as a hypnotherapist.


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KC: When did you train as a hypnotherapist?

LKJ: When I was going to college. I was, what, 21 years old?

KC: Oh, really. So, you had already decided to go in that direction.

LKJ: Yeah, because I wanted to know everything. One of the things I wanted to know was:

What goes on in the human mind? What makes people act the way they do? What makespeople think the way they do? Why is it that people say that they love something and then

they treat it so abominably? Why do people say Im a good person, and act so bad? All of

the contradictions of life. Because, you know, people say things but then you see in reality

that thats not exactly what really happens.

And of course there is a religious impetus. I was brought up in a very religious family. We were

Methodist when I was growing up.

KC: Well, we actually want to go there slightly. I know that you had a time in which you were...

I dont know if you want to call it kidnapped or something of that nature, by a family member?I think someone related to you?

LKJ: Yes, stepfather.

KC: That seems to have

LKJ: That was kind of the... Yeah, it was the trigger. I was 2, 2, 3 years old and my mother

and my father had been divorced when I was very young, I would say, because they were

divorced before I was 2 or 3.

My mother had remarried a man who was an ex-Navy man that she met in Orlando where shewas living and working at the time we were living there... a very definite whirlwind courtship

and I think it was because he danced so well. [laughs] My mother was a dancer.

And so he moved us to Jacksonville and it was in Jacksonville that he started behaving rather

erratically, to say the least... doing strange things. Like, she would come home and find him

huddled in a fetal position in the closet with his hands over his head and saying that

somebody was coming to get him, or something was going on.

He was extremely paranoid and my mother knew this wasnt normal behaviour. And it got

worse, so there was a separation, and I, being a child... You know, in those days parents didntreally tell children whats going on. Its not like: Oh, youre not supposed to talk to your

stepfather anymore, you know. Actually I liked him. He was kind of fun, he was entertaining. I

mean, he was good to me.

So, he had been showing me pictures of cars in a magazine and asked me, you know, he said

he wanted to get a new car and if he was going to get a new car, what color of car would I

want? And I said, yellow and black.

And so, several weeks later and this was after he was gone he drives up to the house in a

yellow and black convertible, and: Do you want to go for a ride? And since nobody had told me


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I wasnt supposed to speak to him or go anywhere with him, of course Ill go. So I went for a

ride.

We went down a long drive through a lot of forest, came to a road that turned off into the

forest, drove down this long road and at the end of this road there was a clearing like a

perfectly square, well-mown clearing... you know, grass. And in the center of the clearing was

a small white clapboard house with a porch. It just looked like an ordinary... like a farmhouse,

even, except that there was nothing anywhere around this. I mean, it was smack in the middle

of this very large clearing that was very well manicured.

There were two men in khaki-looking uniforms and a woman in a white dress that were

standing on the porch. We drove up to the house and they said: Well, weve been waiting for

you, and welcomed me to come inside the house and sat me down at the dining room table. I

remember sitting at the dining room table, and they were asking me questions. I dont

remember the questions.

Then one of them said: You must be very tired. You need to take a nap. I agreed, and they

took me into this room. There was a stainless steel baby bed [laughs] and they put me in this

stainless steel baby bed and gave me a bottle. And Im thinking: Im 2, 3 years old, youknow. I didnt think that, but Im thinking: Im too big for a bottle. But they gave me this bottle

and said: Here, no, its okay, you can have this. And so I started to drink this bottle because I

was hungry.

And thats the last thing I remember until I was in the... I remember sitting in the car with my

stepfather and we were driving very fast through a lot of flashing lights, so it was like in the

city, and we were being chased by the police. He was trying to weave around to avoid capture

and going very fast and turning corners and so forth. He ended up... because apparently there

was another one that was coming around from the front and so he drove up on somebodys

lawn and crashed into a palm tree, and I hit my face on the dashboard.

I remember the policeman coming and taking me out of the car, and then I remember the

policeman handing me over to my mother. And thats basically what I remembered for most of

my life. Everything from the time I drank that bottle until I came to myself in this car was a

complete blank.

KC: And when did you start to recover those memories?

LKJ: Well, the first problem with something like that is you know, were talking about the

memory of a 2, 3-year-old child is the child remembering. I understood this: Am I

remembering everything accurately?

And so, of course, I had to question my mother about it and she gave some details on what

had happened, though what is known from the outside is that as soon as she had discovered

that I was missing, she called my grandmother in Tampa. We were in Jacksonville.

She called my grandmother in Tampa. My grandmother called my grandfather who was in

Nassau. In fact, I dont think he was in Nassau, he was on an outer island working on an

engineering job, and they sent a plane to pick him up from the outer island to Nassau. He flew

from Nassau to Tampa, got in his car, drove to Jacksonville so at least two full days, possibly

three, had passed before he went to the police station with my mother.


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My mother had gone to the police station and they had told her that because she was married

to this man and he was my legal stepfather, she couldnt file any kind of kidnapping charge

against him because, you know, he was entitled to take me where he wanted to take me.

KC: Hm.

LKJ: So, when my grandfather got in there, he apparently was a little more forceful than my

mother and they began to take it seriously, which is why, when they spotted my stepfatherdriving down the road with me in the car, they began to pursue. So, thats kind of the back-

story.

KC: Do you know how many days went by?

LKJ: Well, my mother, when I finally questioned her, she didnt really remember, she just said

it was several days. Thats what she said, so I figure it must have been two or three because

of the time that... It could have been three or four, because of the time it took for the

information to get to my grandfather. For him to get there, it had to have

KC: Were they wealthy? I mean, youre saying he flew from here to there and so on and so

forth.

LKJ: My grandparents were, you know, like middle-class people. He was a marine engineer. He

designed and supervised the building of ships. Before that hed done bridges and dredges and

so forth. He was very well off.

KC: Was your stepfather employed at that time?

LKJ: That I cant tell you. I dont know. I dont know.

KC: Did you ever see him in uniform?

LKJ: No, but that was a peculiar thing because after this event, according to my mother they

went to the police station to sign papers to press charges. When they got there, they found

that he had been taken into custody, that the Navy Department had showed up to take him

into custody because he belonged to them.

Later on, it was suggested that he worked for ONI, and I, of course, read a great deal about

the kinds of experiments that they were doing on people.

KC: Did you have brothers and sisters?

LKJ: I have one brother.

KC: Okay. And he wasnt kidnapped?

LKJ: No.

KC: Interesting. And what is your... if you dont mind my asking, are you Celtic?


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LKJ: Well, I suppose.

KC: The reason, you know, theres a basis for that. I dont know if youre familiar with Duncan

OFinoian, the Super Soldier that we interviewed, but his background is Celtic and Native

American, and they were looking for... He was basically picked up as a child. His father worked

for the CIA. And so, what they seem to have done, especially back in the 50s, was to target

the children of people that were related to the military Special Services.

LKJ: Well, I can tell you a little. My genealogy is up on the internet on my website. I got intogenealogy at one point pretty obsessively, you know, nine or ten hours a day for a year. [Kerry

laughs] And finally my husband said to me: When are you going to be satisfied? When you get

back to Adam? And then I realized I had been giving it way too much time!

I descended from the Pearces [pronounced Percy] of [unclear] fame. Thats an interesting

family. Thats also their

KC: Thats an Illuminati name though, isnt it?

LKJ: I dont think so because the Percy family that now carries the name is not even a bloodrelation to the original Pearces.

The Pearces spent a lot of time in opposition to the royal ruling families of England. Quite a

few ancestors ended their days in cages hanging from the outside of the castle walls. Their

castle, which of course no longer belongs to them... there is a family called Pearce thats

there, you know, the Duke of Northumberland. It is the castle that they filmed the Harry Potter

films in, by the way.

KC: But youre saying thats not your family?

LKJ: No, the people who are currently carrying the name arent the Pearces.

KC: Interesting.

LKJ: They took the name and [overtalk/ inaudible]

KC: So, their real name isnt listed [overtalk/ inaudible]

LKJ: Actually, their listed name was Smithson, and they are directly related to the individual

who went to America and created the Smithsonian Institution.

And also, theres another branch of the family... [laughs] I hate to admit this, but Ive got to

tell you, that another branch of the family are the Pierces that gave birth to Barbara Pierce

who married George Bush. [laughs]

KC: Really! [laughs]

LKJ: A very distant relation, though, very distant.

KC: Well, its all in the human family, right?


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LKJ: They spell their name with a P-I-E. My Pearces, when they came to America, they spelled

it P-E-A-R-C-E. There was an immediate split, like in 1600, thats how long ago it was? So,

dont put me in with those people.

KC: No, I hear you. But to get back to the story, so when did your memories of this incident in

which... We dont know what happened exactly; I dont know... at least youre not telling me at

the moment, but what... Did you find out what exactly happened to you during those four days

in some kind of regression therapy?

LKJ: Well, this was something that really bothered me because as I said, I have a pretty

photographic memory and I can remember all the way back to being an infant in a high-chair,

being fed. Those are among some of my earliest memories, not even being able to handle a

spoon myself but being conscious, you know, fully conscious of myself and the people around

me in the room and having these memories of whats going on.

So, having a period of my life that was just like... that began rather dramatically and ended

rather dramatically of which I had absolutely no memory, was something that really bothered

me, so I worried with it for years. And, of course, a lot of my work in hypnotherapy was helping

people recover memories, but the unfortunate thing is that I do not hypnotize well.

KC: Oh really.

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: And did you find that out when [overtalk/ inaudible]

LKJ: When I trained in hypnotherapy, [laughs] you know, because you have the teacher and

you work on each other, you practice on each other. The teacher works on you, practices on

you. And you know, Im really not hypnotizable, so... Even trying to deliberately go into a self-

hypnotic state, when Im not concerned about somebody else or giving up control tosomebody else, even that doesnt work because theres this conscious, watching part of my

mind, this analytical thing, that never, never turns off.

So, it worried me and I thought about it a lot over the years.

KC: [inaudible] memories back.

LKJ: And it became even more of a worry because after Tom French did his article about me in

the St. Pete Times back in 2000... Was it 2000? Yeah... He spent five years practically living in

our house because he thought that what I did was interesting. And, you know, we talked aboutthis and he was curious about it, and that kind of reawakened it.

KC: I see.

LKJ: And like: What happened, what happened? He interviewed members of the family and

confirmed my memory, but we never... nobody ever really knew what happened.

So it started to worry me, you know, like in the sense of nagging in my mind, and I asked my

husband to go with me to a highly recommended hypnotherapist. I was going to try again. I


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thought if I could just try, if my husbands there in the room with me and I could really, really

relax, you know, maybe, maybe I could get there and I could do it.

So we went and we tried; it didnt work. This woman tried everything, every trick in the book.

And she was good; she really was good. But you know, Im sitting there... the whole time Im

analyzing her technique, you know? [laughs] I would have drawn that out just a little longer; I

would have phrased that slightly differently. Ooh, good touch, yes, like that. Ill remember how

to use that. You know, that sort of thing.

But then what I started doing, I started doing pre-sleep work which was... I would start to

really think about it every night before Id go to sleep, really get intense and think about it,

and go through everything I could remember right up to that moment, and then... what I could

remember, and just, you know, like slice by slice.

My husband and I were talking about a lot of things and I was going through a lot of emotional

releases on many things because I was using my own breathing program. We had a breathing

meditation program that

KC: And what year was this, would you say?

LKJ: This was in 1997, 98.

KC: Um hum.

LKJ: So, what happened was, I started having very vivid dreams that I thought were related to

this and one night I actually had a dream, where I had gone to sleep thinking about everything

right up to the point where we arrived at this house and went inside, I got the bottle... And the

dream continued on with what happened, and it was like SO intense and so real that I woke up

sobbing, you know, just sobbing uncontrollably.

And my husband, you know: Whats going on?

And I said: I remembered, I remembered, I remembered.

KC: Wow.

LKJ: And Im really convinced that I did remember. But this is one of those things where you

have no empirical evidence, youre still depending on a very fallible human mind. The human

mind... I know as well or better than anyone how fallible it is, how impressionable it can be, so

I can tell you what I remembered in this dream but I cannot tell you that its a fact.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: And I cannot even tell you that I believe it. This is where youll find me a little bit different

than most people, because I dont believe anything. I assign probabilities, and probabilities

can change, you know, with the addition of new information. But I would give it greater than

50%, maybe going up towards 65 or 70% probability of being probably what happened.

KC: Okay. Do you want to share it?


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LKJ: Well, its something that Im sure that other people have talked about, these things where

you...

I remember being in a room and it seems to me that they were using some kind of drugs like

LSD to experiment on me, to put me in an altered state, to then try to program me. The

programming was designed to make me repressed, shy, withdrawn... ah... what would you

say? Somebody who doesnt like to make friends or cant make friends, or is afraid to make

friends, or is afraid to speak to other people.

KC: And this was at the age of two?

LKJ: Three, two or three.

KC: Three. Yeah, incredible. The fact they start so early is fascinating.

But this is where you actually had that... I mean, I think you should describe this. We talked

earlier about the actual vision that you saw and the repeated... because that is a

programming technique, I believe.

LKJ: Well, it started out that first I was in a room, just a bare room with a wooden floor, sitting

on the floor. Id been given some little toys to play with. I dont even think there was a blanket

or anything; I think it was totally bare.

I was sitting there and somebody came in and gave me something and then they said: You

just wait here and well be back.

And so Im sitting there, just, you know, looking around at the room. As I was looking around,

all of a sudden the walls started melting, and I understand that this is a fairly common effect

of hallucinogenic substances.

The next thing was, I remember being taken into what was like a classroom scene. I was taken

in, and in front of the class this, you know, a woman took me in and introduced me to a

teacher and the children. And everybody was very friendly and smiling and I was a very happy

new kid at school, totally accepted by everyone. You know, Heres your seat, everybody

friendly, all the children saying all these nice things; sitting down in my desk.

And the little girl next to me says: Can we be best friends? which is what any little kid wants

to hear. And of course to me it was very wonderful because my dream at that age was to go to

school. Here I am in a real school, theres other children and they like me and they accept me,

so Im going to sit down.

And this little girl passes me a note, and the next thing that happens is all these soldiers come

exploding into the room with guns firing, and everybody gets blown to bits. Just really horrible,

with bodies bouncing and flopping around, and brains coming out, and blood, and bits of bone

and gore and everything, and its splattering all over me, and Im the only one left standing.

KC: Incredible.

LKJ: And its like: Aahh! You know, screaming and crying, and screaming and crying.


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So then the next scene is me walking in like a park setting, and theres this old man with a

dog or something and hes sitting on a park bench. Hes got some cookies or cake or

something and he invites me to sit down and offers me some. Hes talking to me, a little kid,

and telling me a story or something.

And then he gives me like a piece of paper or something and the instant he gives it to me, all

of a sudden the soldiers reappear, and theyre blowing him to bits, blowing the dog to bits,

blowing, you know, maybe people in the park. It seems like there were vague images of other

people in the park. You know, blowing everybody to bits blood, gore and bits of bone and soforth. And Im left standing. Im the only one left standing.

And the third one was we were like standing in lines. I was in line with a lot of people and it

had kind of like this feeling of a concentration camp sort of thing.

KC: Oh.

LKJ: These lines... And it was like we were standing in line to do something or go somewhere,

or something bad was supposed to happen. And I knew we had to escape, I knew I had to

escape.

And there was this little girl. Its like the same little girl that was in the classroom?

KC: Um hum.

LKJ: She was in the line next to me and she recognized me, and I saw that she recognized me.

I knew that she better not say anything to me because if she does, the soldiers will come and

theyll blow everybody away again, so I kept my head down. I was talking to her like out of the

side of my mouth: Dont look at me, dont say anything to me. You know: Dont act like you

know me. Please dont recognize me, because if you act like you even know me, theyll kill all

of us.

She just looked at me and smiled and handed me a piece of paper there was supposed to be

like a note on it and the instant she did that, in come the soldiers again, blowing everybody

away, and Im the only one left standing.

KC: So you had these three consecutive dreams in the same night?

LKJ: Yeah. Oh, it was all one dream.

KC: I see. And at that point, was that when you?

LKJ: Thats when I woke up screaming and crying.

KC: Incredible. So at this point... I mean, I understand you have now extrapolated from that

dream, or series of dreams, that in essence you were being programmed in a sense to be

reclusive, not to share, that if somebody gives you information or gives you something, that

youre going to be... theyre going to die.

LKJ: Not so much if they give me information, but if they attempt to engage me in a friendly

way and ask for it, because it was like they were asking for help, you know, they wanted


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something from me. They wanted my friendship, they wanted me to share with them,

something.

And basically, it was, yeah, last man standing.

KC: So youre recovering this memory... And this is actually not that long ago. Its what,

maybe ten years ago, maybe?

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: Yeah. And this basically impacted your entire life.

LKJ: Im sure it did. It was totally subconscious. I mean, how could something like that not

impact your entire life? How could it not make you really, really paranoid, in a sense?

KC: And slightly antisocial, maybe?

LKJ: Antisocial, absolutely. Reclusive.

KC: So, if you have special gifts... In other words, in your investigation of your own self, did

you reach the conclusion that perhaps you had special gifts, and that was the reason you were

selected, and that they wanted you to keep those secret or separate in some way? Was that a

conclusion that you came to?

LKJ: Well, sure, because of the things that have happened at other times in my life, and the

things that have happened subsequently. What it did was, it drove me to the necessity for

being just plain normal vanilla, not standing out dont do anything that draws attention to

yourself, because if you do, people are going to get hurt.

KC: Um hm.

LKJ: And that was probably the most profound thing that it did. So I spent many years trying to

dissolve into a really normal, banal life.

KC: Thats fascinating, yeah. So you kind of tried to camouflage yourself with a pretty normal

life. At what point did your life stop becoming normal?

LKJ: When I started meditating; that really was... And as I said, that came about because after

I had my fourth child I was bedridden. And when you have a really active mind like mine and

youre under this kind of stress, you need to relieve that stress and frustration.

Of course, trying to live a normal life was extremely stressful and frustrating, so everything

kind of like came to a head and here I was, bedridden, and I decided to learn how to meditate.

I combined some clever hypnotherapy techniques with some standard meditation techniques,

as I understood them, and started having really extraordinary experiences very, very fast. I

mean, you could say that I had your typical shamanic initiatory experiences.

KC: Are you familiar with kundalini? Do you feel that you awakened your kundalini?


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LKJ: I know what people talk about kundalini. I dont know if kundalini is exactly what

happened, but what I had was a powerful cleansing experience. You know, certainly the way

some people describe their kundalini experiences could describe what happened to me, but I

dont know that thats necessary. That is, once again, one of those things: Wheres the

empirical evidence? [laughs] I dont believe anything.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: I had a powerful, powerful experience and it had extraordinary physiological symptoms;and it had extraordinary psychological effects, you know, freeing, liberating.

I went through this whole period experiencing psychokinesis to such an extent that I actually

got afraid to go places because I was afraid something was going to break in my presence

windows, electronic objects, glasses, pictures. Sometimes I only had to look at something.

And in fact that still happens now if I tend to not listen to myself and not take care of myself or

take care of things. Or if there is something out there thats threatening, you know, things

break. And in fact Id like to show you the most recent object.

KC: [laughs] Okay.

LKJ: Im going to send someone to go and get it and you can have a

KC: Thats a good idea.

LKJ: You can have a look at one of my most recent psychokinetic experiences. [laughs]

KC: Okay, so you access, basically, these

LKJ: I graduated from glass.

KC: ...special powers in yourself as a result of this meditation and moving into that place. But

at what point did you also get into the contact with the Cs, as you call them, the

Cassiopaeans?

LKJ: Well, I think that actually began at that time, 1985, because what I was doing was, I was

doing these... I mean, when youre laid up in bed, you can sometimes meditate twice, three

times a day just to keep your stress level down. The thing is, I went at it just for stress relief. I

mean, that was what I was after.

KC: So you werent seeking enlightenment per se?

LKJ: No. The technique I designed was designed for stress relief.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: I had no idea it was going to do what it did.

KC: Okay. So at that point, when you say you think you contacted the Cs then... in other

words... because I understand that you worked with a Ouija Board.


14/55

LKJ: Um-hum.

KC: And theres a group, actually, that you worked with.

LKJ: Um-hum.

KC: And I want you to describe all of that. But how did you get to that point if you started with

the meditation?

LKJ: Well, what happened was that when I wasnt meditating during this period, I was reading

and I subscribed to a library-by-mail service and I would read these books, because...

This is where the whole religion thing came in because I decided: Okay, this is the time to read

about those things that are in my mind that Im curious about. Im curious about this issue of

good and evil and the end of the world, and eschatological ideas... because Ive always had... I

had dreams when I was young about the end of the world.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: These were recurrent dreams of what I perceived or understood or explained to myself as

the end of the world. Whether it was the actual end of the world, I dont know, but they were

some pretty troubling and repetitious dreams.

KC: So you saw, Im assuming, cataclysms of some kind?

LKJ: Oh, yeah. Mm-hm.

KC: Did they have water, tsunamis, that sort of thing?

LKJ: Cataclysms, smoke, fire, scorched earth, cracked earth, dinosaur-type creatures striding

around, reptilian-looking creatures, serpents slithering everywhere. It was some pretty creepy

stuff for a young kid who had never been exposed to todays form of horror flicks to be seeing

in their dreams.

I was never exposed to a movie, a book, a photograph, an image of any kind that would ever

put that kind of thought in my mind at that age. I was growing up in the 50s come on! that

stuff wasnt available.

So, back when I was like 21, 22, I remember having some more of these dreams and I told oneof my girlfriends. We were driving on the road and I says: You know, things are going to get

very, very bad on this planet. I have the feeling that by the time Im 50 years old, things are

going to be very, very bad. I just feel this, theres something inside of me says this.

Well, you know, you just kind of brush that stuff off. Its just stuff that you think or say when

youre young and impressionable.

KC: So, fast forward, youre meditating, you think youre having some contact with the Cs, but

how does that manifest?


15/55

LKJ: Well, I was reading these books, and I read Immanuel Velikovskys Worlds In Collision

because Id read an article about eschatological scenarios and it mentioned Velikovsky, and I

said: Well, Ive got to get this book. Well, finding his book was a little hard but I actually went

to the library in town at some point and found a copy of it on, you know, selling off their books

that they were taking off the shelves, for 0.25. [laughs]

Anyway, I got a copy of it and I read it, and I was reading this stuff and it like opened a whole

new view of the Bible to me.

As I said, I was raised in a very religious family and I had read the Bible completely through,

cover to cover, several times, and this was like a whole different way of looking at the Bible

than the faith-based way. Although, actually, Velikovsky was writing from a kind of faith-based

perspective it was just a Jewish one, not a Christian one.

His belief was that the Exodus really happened, so he was interpreting these things as the

events of the Exodus. But I think that they were much older stories that were later conflated

with still other stories to create an Exodus story, because the Exodus thats described in the

Bible never happened.

But anyway, so I would be sitting there and I would read something that he had written and I

would stop and Id look up and think to myself: Wow, is that possible? And as soon as I would

say this in my own head, in my own head all of this information would begin to flow.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: And it would be like... like my own thoughts! It would be like: Yes, not only is it possible,

consider this: Da-da-da-da-da.

And it absolutely could be just rearranging, reorganizing all the material that was in my brain

from years and years and years of reading a book a day, that was just being sorted andreorganized in my brain and spit back in response to my question. You know, the brains like a

computer. Who knows what it can do? Its amazing.

KC: Absolutely. But was there information that also you hadnt maybe studied, new

information that came in?

LKJ: Yes, and there were ways of putting things together that were totally unique. The funny

thing about it was that I would start to write this down and heres where it got really weird

because I would start to write things down, and I would write things that I didnt know what

was coming.

KC: What do you mean?

LKJ: I would have asked this question in my mind, like: Is it possible for the sun to do this? You

know, here theyre describing the temperature of the corona, the temperature of the surface

of the sun, the temperature of the interior of the sun: Something is wrong with the way these

numbers are adding up, you know: What is the reason for this? And I would start writing things

and they were like... I never heard of them before, and I didnt know...


16/55

Because, you know, when youre talking or when youre writing... Youre writing a letter: Dear

so and so, Im writing to inform you that Ill be coming to visit you on Tuesday next... youve

got in your mind what youre going to put in this letter.

KC: Right.

LKJ: You know what youre going to say and its just a question of putting it together. Thats

different from writing when you dont know whats coming, which is kind of a unique thing.

And then I would say: Well, I have to go and take care of the children. Or: I have to go cook

dinner, or something. Or: I have to go do this or that, or whatever. So I would put it down and

it would like stop, but it would be like it was backing up in my head, and it would back up to

the point where I felt it was like pressure, like I was having a headache, you know, just like a

headache. And Id say: Ive got to go. Because some parts of it would leak out, like words, like:

wait a minute, you know. And it just seemed like I was just thinking.

Okay, now Im supposed to be cooking here, but Im really thinking about the relationship

between the magnetism of this planet to that planet, and the solar radiation and gravity and

planetary distances and blah-blah-blah. And: What do you think would happen if thathappened? And you know, thinking about these things, and they would, you know, leak out of

my head.

KC: So, at some point you would go and have to

LKJ: So I had to stop and go write it down. And I have boxes full of this material.

KC: Fascinating. So how did you make the transition, then, from doing that?

LKJ: The problem was I didnt trust it as channeling.

[Someone brings an item to LKJ. It looks like a round black item the size of a frying pan with

the handle separated from it.]

KC: Okay. So... thats amazing.

LKJ: See, this is my most recent

KC: [laughs] I cant believe it.

LKJ: This is a cast iron skillet. It was one of my favorites. It belonged to my great-grandmother.

KC: Amazing.

LKJ: And it wasnt even hot when I looked at it. I had just, you know, it was there and I was

KC: Were you upset at the moment?

LKJ: Well, there were a lot of things going on and there were a lot of things that I needed to

get a handle on. [Kerry laughs] You know, the universe and the subconscious mind is

marvelously metaphorical, so this is a message to myself.


17/55

KC: Okay.

LKJ: Which is what most psychokinetic activity is, by the way, its people sending messages to

themselves that... I mean, even a lot of poltergeist-type activity, but thats a whole other

topic. Yeah, spitting it all out, all that sort of thing.

KC: Well, did it scare you when this happened?

LKJ: No.

KC: There had to be a loud noise, right?

LKJ: Yeah, and everybody else was in the room, too.

KC: Oh, really?

LKJ: Oh yeah. I mean, Anna, you were there werent you?

ANNA [speaks from off screen]: No, but I heard about it right after. I was in the office.

KC: Oh, okay.

LKJ: Well, there were four or five people in the kitchen when it happened. We were all just

standing there going... [opens her mouth into an O].

KC: Uh-huh.

LKJ: And then I turned around and I said: All right, whos pissing me off? [laughs]

KC: [laughs] Incredible. Well, okay. Have you ever hurt yourself?

LKJ: No. Never.

KC: And what about hurting other people?

LKJ: No.

KC: No just kind of

LKJ: I send messages to myself.

KC: Right. I understand.

LKJ: And usually its pretty clear what the message is.

[laughs] One of my favorite ones was... I have a bust of Edward VII that my grandparents

acquired prior to the coronation that never happened because he abdicated to marry Wallis

Simpson. They had acquired it as a souvenir and it was something that I acquired when my

grandparents died.


18/55

But anyhow, so Ive got this bust of Edward VII and hes sitting up on top of a bookcase and

my youngest daughter came in. I was reading a book, and actually I was reading about

Templars, and she came in with a piece of gold foil paper and said: Mommy, can you cut me

out a crown to wear?

I said: Sure. I put my book down and I got the scissors and I sat there and I cut her out a crown

and taped it so she could wear this crown on her head.

As soon as I handed it to her, all of a sudden Edward VII came tumbling off the shelf, broke

into pieces, dented my end table. And then, I turned the page... after all this was cleaned up

and everything. I was very upset about it because there was no ostensible reason for Edward

to come tumbling off the shelf.

But then, [laughs] I turned the page, and theres, in the book that I was reading, they were

reciting the old nursery rhyme about Jack and Jill went up the hill, you know, and how this had

come about as... it described a certain... royal battles or something.

Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water.Jack fell down and broke his crown...

KC: Right.

LKJ: And here I had just made a crown; Edward VII, who never was crowned, fell off the shelf;

and I turned the page and I read about Jack breaking his crown. So, I never figured out what

the message of that one was, but that was one of those really weird things that just happens

to me.

KC: Well, are you familiar with your prior lives?

LKJ: Most of them, yeah.

KC: Okay. And do you think that you were a king at any point?

LKJ: No.

KC: You dont?

LKJ: No. I dont think it really had anything to do with that, no. Oh, God! [laughs] I wouldnt

want to be a king! No. In my immediate past life I was just a German housewife in NaziGermany, married to a Jew. The Nazis came and took my husband and my children and I

committed suicide. So, I did fall down and break my crown.

KC: So at this point... we are at this point where you are putting two and two together youve

meditated, you got contact in essence with the Cs although you dont actually know its the

Cs.

LKJ: Well, you have to understand that during these meditative experiences or during

meditation, I would tend to... Some people call it samadhi when youre just kind of like gone,


19/55

and youre just gone for extended periods of time, so I guess if thats what you want to call it,

thats what was happening. I would be gone for extended periods of time.

And what was going on inside my head was not something that was foreign or different; it was

essentially myself in the future. It was just a wider scope of consciousness.

So when people talk about the Cs, it always entertains me because theyre saying: Oh, Im in

touch with the Cs. And Im thinking to myself, well, I didnt remember talking to you lately.

Because its basically, as theyve said and as it has proven to be through the years, its just

really a highly expanded state of consciousness that expands into the future and the past, and

laterally, I suppose.

Because, you know, if youre members of a soul group, certainly there would be other

individuals on the planet who might be, you know, [making quotation marks with her fingers],

part of the Cs soul group. So its not like a singular thing, but I would say that its not all

inclusive of all of humanity either.

KC: And that makes sense.

LKJ: But it never was an intrusive thing. It never felt like anything other than the action of my

own brain working through a problem.

And in fact, there have been many times when I was... like in school, when I would be working,

like, for example, on mathematics. You know, when you work very hard on a math problem,

how you feel this pressure right here, youve got stuff going on in this forward part of your

brain, and thats in a sense how it felt. It felt like my brain was applying something kind of like

sheer brute thinking power on a problem, sorting it out. Thats how it felt. Maybe thats what it

is.

KC: Okay. So at that point, though... Im just kind of putting myself back where you were at

that point, because you went from that place to actually using a Ouija Board, and Id like you

to describe

LKJ: Well, there was a lot of water over the dam and under the bridge between then and then,

because... 1985... there was a good seven more years of studying and researching a lot of

things before I began the experiment that led to that other form of communication with the

Cs.

There was a lot of experimentation in many things: hypnotherapy I was doing exorcisms; alot of studying, a lot of research, trying to find out what was... And of course I became kind of

obsessed with the material that had come through my own head and I wrote it down.

I wrote this manuscript that I called The Noah Syndrome because everything kind of focused

on the idea that formulated in my brain, of quantum metamorphosis on a macrocosmic scale,

because it seemed to me that this was the central idea of the eschatological thesis. And I

began to research to see if this was actually something that was possible.


20/55

I did a lot of studying, reading in quantum physics (certainly not as a professional in any

respect), and following up all the trails and all the clues that I had put together in this

manuscript to see if any of it was even remotely possible.

Because the scenario that presented itself in these thoughts, shall we call them, that I was

having was pretty horrendous... which was that yes the planet does transform, but a

transformation of the planet is essentially to us, at our level, a cataclysmic event.

If you say, if an atom goes through a quantum leap transformation or acquires electrons orloses electrons or whatever, you know, changes from one state to another or maybe from one

element to another by the acquisition or losing of some particle or some part of it, at that level

its got to be cataclysmic for that atom.

And if you think of the solar system as a giant atom and I know thats frowned on by certain

mainstream scientific thinking, but I still think that its a useful metaphor. But if youre

thinking about a solar system going through a quantum transformation to become something

else, alchemically speaking, its going to be cataclysmic. It cant be otherwise.

Cataclysm on that level does not bode well for humanity.

And I began to think that this is what these dreams, these things that I had seen, that they

were pointing to this cataclysmic transformation. So, of course, if youre thinking about a

cataclysmic transformation of your world, the first thing youre going to think about is: Oh my

God, you know, I mean, wheres Noah and the Ark when you need him? [laughs]

And that concept of Noah and his Ark captured my attention because all of these stories of

former cataclysms that you can possibly relate to transformations in the state of the world,

you know, such as the [making quotation marks with her fingers] fall from Eden, other

cataclysmic transformations, they were probably other transformations that were cataclysmic.

If you read the science, study the geology, the archeology, the paleontology, you realize that

these cataclysms have recurred repeatedly on this planet. We dont know with each one of

these cataclysms what life was like for the beings that occupied the planet.

For example, a solar system that exists in a different cosmic ray environment could be very

different from the solar system, or the Earth, or reality, as we experience it now.

KC: Okay. Let me ask you this, though. At this point, because were kind of following a

chronology here, and youre going through an experience, your mind is opening up to all these

aspects and youre thinking about them, and obviously youre now encountering, youreputting two and two together and youre getting the notion of a cataclysm and something

coming on in the future of the world.

Youre looking at... Are you concentrating on 2012 at all, or are you just all over the place?

LKJ: Well, at this point, you know, come on, this was 1985, 1986. Was anybody really talking

about 2012 then? Maybe a few French people, you know, but it wasnt like anybody was

talking about it.

KC: Okay.


21/55

LKJ: So, what I was concerned with was the concept of Noah and the Ark because all of the

stories talked about a fall from Eden, or a fall from a higher state, that humanity was once in

a different state of existence and that he fell. This was undoubtedly basically a description of a

cataclysm, a global cataclysm.

KC: Okay. At that point were you aware of ETs, for example?

LKJ: Absolutely not.

KC: Okay. But, is this the

LKJ: I was a good Christian girl. What do you think youre saying? [laughs]

KC: Okay, thats fair. But youre also talking about... This is when you started meditating,

right?

LKJ: Uh-huh.

KC: Youre having all these experiences. Youre going to make a transition. Youre actually

saying it took seven years to make a transition to using the [Ouija] Board?

LKJ: Mm-hm.

KC: So, youre getting information from those seven years, and did that continue? In other

words

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: ...that you were writing down. Youre saying you have records, but you didnt trust it.

LKJ: Well, its not that. The problem was that I didnt really realize what I was doing because I

thought that: Okay, thats just happening in my head. Im just thinking. I want to know more

than what I just think of.

KC: Okay. You didnt think you were channeling at that point, is that what youre saying?

LKJ: No, of course not.

KC: Had you read channeling at that point or anything?

LKJ: At that point, no. I mean, Id read Edgar Cayce, I think I read... Id read a lot about

KC: Did you read the Ra Material, for example?

LKJ: Oh, no, not until way later.

KC: Okay.


22/55

LKJ: It was probably somewhere along in the very late 80s, very early 90s, probably 89, 90

that I started really reading channeled material because I wanted to know if anybody else was

thinking the same things that I was thinking, you know, about this macrocosmic quantum

transformation, basically an alchemical event.

KC: But youre also married to an expert on hyperdimensions.

LKJ: I wasnt married to him then.

KC: Okay. So, when did that happen?

LKJ: All of that came... well, he came after the Cs.

KC: Oh, I see.

LKJ: But... and the funny thing was, as I was doing all this, in a sense it was destroying my

marriage, because you cant be a good Christian girl and... you know. I mean, I was already

stretching being a good Christian girl by being involved in doing hypnotherapy and some of

the other things that I was reading and studying about.

KC: Right.

LKJ: I was really pushing the boundaries on that, and I didnt talk about that in my Christian

environment.

So when you start little by little divesting yourself of all of the things that once held big places

in your life and the other partner doesnt want to go there, and you realize: I cant deny my

brain, my mind. I cant deny my questions. I cant deny the fact that I must seek.

And his solution was: If you want an answer, its in the Bible. If its not in the Bible, its satanic.

KC: Um-hum. I see.

LKJ: I couldnt live with that, and I tried to open his mind but he was too afraid.

But anyhow, so years went by and I continued to study and research, study and research,

study and research. I mean, God, you have no idea the books I went through. Youve seen my

library.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: Ive read nearly all of them. Youve seen the ones that are stored upstairs thats my

current reading list. [Kerry laughs] And then theres all the library books that I had to return.

[laughs]

KC: Yeah. Absolutely.

LKJ: So, its a lot of material that Ive gone through and so I didnt think I was channeling, no.


23/55

KC: Okay, so how did you make the leap to the Board? Was that just one of your trials and

errors?

LKJ: Well, Ive really talked about that. [take a book off the shelf] You know, these books are

going to fall down here, but let me show you In Amazing Grace I go into extreme detail. This

is no longer available, by the way. Im going to try to put it back up on the internet so people

can read it for free.

KC: That would be great.

LKJ: I went into extreme detail of all the thinking that I went through when I selected the

Board. And I just want to say this for the whackos out there that think that a Ouija Board has

some power to demonically possess you: A Ouija Board has no power whatsoever. It is a tool.

It is a tool, purely and simply.

If anything weird comes around or manifests in your life as a result of interacting with a board-

type instrument, its because its already there, its just covert. All you have done with your

board is flush it out and come face to face with it.

And I would much rather come face to face with anything thats hanging around in my

environment and be able to deal with it than to have it continuously subtly or constantly

influencing me from behind the scenes.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: See? But thats been my experience and my observation with a lot of people who... I

mean, come on, its one of the finest instruments for psychic and spiritual development that

was ever invented.

I mean, whats his name, Pythagoras used it. The ancient Chinese used it, you know. And westill speak of Pythagoras with tremendous respect for his mathematics, for his Pythagorean

Theorem and that sort of thing, and the guy was using something that was very similar to a

pointing... you know, a device that you touch and it points out letters or numbers or whatever.

KC: I understand.

LKJ: The finest, the finest channeled material in existence either began with or came entirely

through a board-type instrument. The stuff that they call channeling nowadays, where

somebody sits down and puts a tinfoil pyramid on their head and starts talking to a Lord

Whoever on their spaceship thats trash, its garbage.

Read the history. Read the Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research. Read some of

the experiments they did.

The whole research into real paranormal phenomena was completely sidetracked by the

scientific establishment at the end of the 19th century, the beginning of the 20th century,

when these societies were trying to get real scientists working on it. They completely moved

in and they destroyed it.


24/55

And what has come in to fill the gap? Quacks! Quacks and people who do not know the history

and do not know the instruments and do not know that theyre doing. If you do not know...

I mean, its like my husband with the physicists. Some hot-shot physicist comes along and just

says: Oh, I had this great idea, blah-blah-blah, and he writes his paper. And then he publishes

it and he comes to find out that he was... that somebody thought of it 100 years ago and there

are ten papers written on the same topic. Hes not reading other peoples work first. He thinks

hes invented the wheel.

[speaks heatedly] All these people, they think theyve invented the wheel. There is tons of

good channeled material out there, excellent channeled material, but very little of it has been

produced since 1915.

KC: Okay. [laughs]

LKJ: Sorry.

KC: Okay, well, Im sure youve done your history in that area.

LKJ: Oh yeah.

KC: And Id love to find out what you consider to be the good channeled material. For

example, are you saying the Ra Material, do you consider that

LKJ: The Ra Material is an exception. That was research. It was experimental research. It was

undertaken under controlled circumstances. It was a group effort. It was not just somebody

sitting down one day and having their free will violated.

And, oh, this is another one! This drives me nuts people who say theres a difference

between channeling and being a medium. The medium goes into a trance and her Controlcomes in and lets you talk to the dead people and so on.

And then theyre saying, okay, thats one thing, but thats different from channeling because

when you channel, a space alien just downloads into you.

I mean, tell me downloads into you and speaks through you tell me how that is different

from your Control coming in and using your physical sensorium, using your mouth, your eyes,

your whatever, to communicate?

KC: Okay. So, for example, can you name some of the channels out there that in the past oreven current ones, like, I think his name is [unclear]... is that his name?

LKJ: I would rather not do that, if you dont mind. Its easier just to

KC: Thats absolutely fine. How about in the past? Would you go into the past?

LKJ: Allan Kardec. The Patience Worth material. Those are fantastic works. The Ra Material

certainly. The work of Jane Roberts, you know, the Seth Material. She began with a Board.

KC: Um-hum.


25/55

LKJ: Its a way to develop your own internal communication.

KC: Yes.

LKJ: And of course, even with the Seth Material, Seth says: I am an alternate of yourself, you

know?

KC: Mm-hm. At this point you actually started working with the Board, Im assuming. Did youwork by yourself? I mean, how did you...?

LKJ: Okay. I came up with the idea, first of all, that to think that... I mean, when you read the

history of the paranormal, so to speak, you realize that some of these people who really did

some fantastic work, I mean amazing work, that enormous stresses were put on their bodies.

There is the whole gang of the skeptics society that will try to tear apart some of these

wonderful cases. And I think its Deborah Blum who wrote a wonderful book called the Ghost

Hunters. There is also another one out about Daniel Douglas Home, called The First Psychic.

[written by Peter Lamont]. Highly recommended books.

If you really want to know some truly extraordinary paranormal phenomena going on, read

[Arthur] Conan Doyles history of the paranormal, [The History of Spiritualism], where he gives

extraordinary analysis of the Fox sisters and the introduction of the so-called channeling

contact phenomenon.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: So its clear that it put extraordinary stresses on these people, on their lives

psychologically, in some cases on their physical bodies. I mean, some of the great mediums of

the past were known to lose up to 15 pounds in a single sitting. I mean, thats a lot of weightto lose.

And then there were these wonderful mediums that would produce ectoplasm. And, skeptic

society, just back off! I mean, I say I dont believe things, but let me tell you, the testimony,

the photographs, the witnesses I am 99% convinced all of these things happened and that

they happened as they were described by these really extraordinary witnesses so just leave

me alone. Dont even talk to me. [Kerry laughs]

There was fantastic work being done, fantastic material, and I wanted to study this before I did

anything.

I had read all of the stuff that was published as channeled material up the point in the early

90s and I thought: This is like word salad. I call it salad-shooter channeling. You know... salad,

[makes noise of machine chopping vegetables] you know? It had no depth, it had no meaning.

It was all platitudinous, it was like intonations of Love and Light and Good.

We can clearly see that what these channels are saying, what these entities, whatever they

are... has no practical application in our real lives. Sure, somebody says: Oh, you just have to

love and you have to ... [unclear]. I mean, just give me a break! [Kerry laughs]


26/55

So I was reading the history. I wanted to know what other people... and I saw that there were

people that had done fantastic things.

Because, if you want to channel and you say: I am Lord High Poobah of the Intergalactic

Command, and Im going to tell you all this stuff, and youd say all this wonderful stuff fine.

Who can prove or disprove it?

KC: Thats right.

LKJ: The work that was being done by these experimenters in those days, they were seeking to

validate what they were doing. They were doing what was called cross-correspondence

experiments where they were having experiments that were taking place on two sides of the

Atlantic. And this was at a time when there was no communication, there was no instant

communication, so sometimes it took weeks for the results of the timed experiments to be

brought together to know that everything had happened in a certain way. Some of it was

amazing stuff.

They were actually working on something that was worthwhile. What good are you doing

anybody if youre just channeling stuff?

I just love the ones that are saying: Oh well, there was supposed to be an asteroid hit the

planet but thanks to the kind offices of the, you know, Lord High Council of the Galactic

Federation, or whatever, we diverted the asteroid from the planet and saved Earth.

Okay, first of all, nobody knew anything about said asteroid except that they predicted it so

you have only their word. And then, since it didnt happen, you only have their word that they

diverted it. I mean, were talking about... Its like Jehovah of the Bible: I am the only God. You

shall have no other God before me. And the reason that youre supposed to believe this is

because I say so.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: Excuse me??? [Kerry laughs]

KC: Okay. So at this point, you wanted to work with the Board, and you must have [overtalk/

inaudible]

LKJ: I had decided to work with the Board at that point. I went through all the material and it

was because of the historical material that I determined that the Board is the way to begin. It

is the way to really begin, because theres a lot of work to be done to channel. You cant justsit down one day and talk. Oh, you can talk to dead dudes; anybody can talk to dead dudes.

KC: Right.

LKJ: But, come on, its like Cayce said: A dead Presbyterian is just that, a dead Presbyterian.

[Kerry laughs] Hes no better and no worse than any other dead

I dont want to talk to dead dudes. Ive talked to plenty of dead dudes. I did spirit release for

years. I have never yet encountered anybody that I put under hypnosis who didnt have spirit

attachments.


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KC: Okay. So you had an incredible background when you actually sat down at the Board with

what? One other person? Or were there more than one?

LKJ: Well, usually there was one or two others, and I was changing them because I was

experimenting to see... I was trying to get the right energy mix.

I had one person who was... actually, the reason he was there for most of the sessions or

nearly all the sessions was because he was simply the only one who showed up that regularly.Other people came and went. People would get bored. They werent getting what they

wanted. They didnt immediately get their lottery numbers; they didnt get their predictions

for the horse races or whatever and I did a lot of experimenting with that to see what kind of

possibilities there were.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: And then I found out that some of these people who were coming and using this... I was

doing it because I wanted to write these things down and then check. I wasnt playing these

numbers, I was just checking any kind of... I mean, prophecy is supposed to be part ofchanneling, right?

It didnt occur to me that most prophecy is BS because either its being created by the one

thats prophesying theyre making the prophecy come true to give themselves validation

because the universe really is open. And then there are some things that, you know, that the

probabilities narrow as you get closer to the event. You know, there are those things.

But I had the idea this is what I wanted to do, and I knew I needed somebody else to do it with

me, and I wanted to find somebody whose energy was just right. And thats what we did we

sat and we went through loop after loop after loop of... I mean, you talk to lots of dead dudes

when youre using a Ouija Board. Believe me, you do.

But for me, having the experience that I had with spirit release therapy, with exorcism, it was

easy for me to use the Board itself as a medium of exorcism, because instead of having a

person under hypnosis who...

You communicate with their attached entities through them. You know, you say to the

person under hypnosis: Okay, youve got your attached entity. Would you ask them when they

came? And then they ask them mentally, and then they hear the answer, and then they repeat

it back to me, so youre getting things, and youre having this conversation with somebody

under hypnosis.

Okay, youve asked your attached entity what his name is.

Well, his name is John.

When did John come?

Nineteen forty-five.

And theyre having to stop and ask the entity, and of course you dont really know, you know.

Im just telling you how the technique is done.

KC: Right.


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LKJ: You dont know for sure if its true or not. I just know that the therapy really works.

So, here, with a Board, youve eliminated having to use somebody under hypnosis as your

medium for talking to this dead dude, and you talk to dead dudes more or less directly, you

know?

KC: So, assuming you did that, okay? And you began to also get feedback For example, did

you find that you were getting, I dont know, a lot of negativity using the Board, in the initialphases?

LKJ: No.

KC: No. Okay.

LKJ: No. We talked to a lot of dead... but I knew what to do with them. If you get some creepy

little dead guy that comes along and says: Hi, Im a dead hippie. Peace. Love. Yeah. Far Out

And we had them, you know?

KC: And the other thing that you would have been on the lookout for, obviously, is platitudes,

which these people

LKJ: Platitudes. Allan, would you go get the Board Notes? Id like to show them to Kerry.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: Because, one thing

ALLAN (A): You want them all?

LKJ: The whole stack, yes. One of them is up in my office but dont worry about it, its just a

thin one.

A: All right.

LKJ: We kept notes because this was in the nature of an experiment.

KC: Yes.

LKJ: I wanted to record

KC: You were doing the scientific method.

LKJ: ...every motion of that Board, everything it said, and I did that for two solid years,

sometimes twice a week.

KC: Um-hum. Im assuming your hand is one of the... at least on one side of this

LKJ: Usually its three fingers. Yeah, Ive usually got three fingers on it.


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KC: So youre touching it. I was just wondering. And then you get another person to touch it.

Do you have more than two people or only

LKJ: Well, at least two; sometimes three or four.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: There are many times... well, for the longest time we had three. Three was really good. It

was a good number at the time because the third person kind of balanced out this otherperson that was there, whose energy was a little on the negative side, maybe. He was a

fantastic psychic, amazing psychic.

KC: This is something you found out subsequently?

LKJ: Yeah, but thats all recounted in my Wave series.

KC: Okay. Well, that would be also fascinating for people to read.

LKJ: So usually we had at least two, three, and it changed. You know, it changed from time totime.

KC: I am curious whether that... because you spent years before you actually got to the Board,

and you had material of your own that in many ways you were saying was coming from your

own mind. But at the same time youre saying that it contained information that wasnt you

were writing and you didnt have it in your mind prior to when you were writing it.

LKJ: It wasnt in my conscious mind.

KC: Okay. So when you got the Board and when, maybe lets assume that at some point you

contacted the Cs, or even before then did you ever see parallels in what you had gotten priorto that showing up?

LKJ: Only after the Cs.

KC: Only after the Cs. Okay.

LKJ: It was like, in a sense its kind of like creating or grooving a circuit that goes directly from

my higher consciousness to my arm.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: In a sense its kind of like ... [crosstalk/ inaudible]

KC: Its also like tuning in a radio.

LKJ: Its tuning in a radio, yeah.

KC: that you were doing over the years

A: [brings book to Laura] This is what was in the Podcast Room.


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LKJ: This is what we have. Well, theres more but this is just a sample of what I call my Board

Notes.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: Every single movement

KC: Okay, yes. So you must have had an extra person here writing, taking notes and stuff.

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: Did you record the sessions as well?

LKJ: We didnt record them until well after the Cs were... I mean, we didnt have recordings of

some of the earlier Cs sessions because recording is expensive, you know? We were trying to

keep notes.

KC: And again, what year are we in when you

LKJ: We were in 1992, 1991, 92, 93.

KC: So youve been in contact with the Cs since 93?

LKJ: Since 94.

KC: Ninety-four. Wow. Thats incredible.

LKJ: July 94... July 16.

KC: Okay, and this is 2010 so thats a long time.

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: And so youve been able to also validate a lot of what theyve been telling you.

LKJ: Oh, Lord. I mean, come on, Ive read the historical channeled material. Ive read modern

day channeled material. I have an entire bookcase in there that has nothing but modern day

channeled books from, oh, probably the last 15, 20 years. And the Cs are very spare; they are

not verbose.

KC: Yes, Ive noticed that.

LKJ: But what they say is so loaded and so damned accurate, you know. Sometimes theyre

spectacularly, or apparently spectacularly, wrong or off on something, and then you find out

later they were right.

I mean, one of the things that really, really got me was, we had one session one night and one

of my girlfriends was present. She asked about something and I asked if there had been


31/55

cometary bombardments over Europe during the time of the origins of the King Arthur

legends.

And at this point there was a group of people working on this. I think they were archaeologists

or geologists or somebody, who were working on this theory. They were writing scientific

papers on it but they hadnt been published yet, it had not come to the attention of the

general public. So the information was out there in the biosphere somewhere, but nobody else

knew about it.

And so, for them to say it was... like, they even gave the year... and then to find this in a

scientific paper like four, five years later it finally got published, you know, was just one of

those amazing things. And then things about biology, things about ancient history

And of course, the biggest thing has been their predictions about what our world was going to

be like in the future. Now, remember, this is back in 1994, pre-9/11, and they described what

was coming, how it was going to play out. I mean, they didnt say: Oh, theres going to be 9/11

on 9/11. This is how its going to... But they gave enough hints and enough

You know, part of the problem is we didnt ask the right questions, too. But they did, in manycases, voluntarily give clues and hints to information that there was a government conspiracy

that was underway. It was going to change our world. And that it was going to be a huge,

huge, huge thing. And they even said that: Big! Big! Big! Big! with multiple exclamation

marks. (They do their own punctuation.)

So, you know, their whole description of our reality past things, things that we have been

able to verify, things about ancient languages, things about DNA and we try to research, to

verify. And I know most channels: Oh, well, its channeled, we dont have to research. Im

sorry. Im going to research it and Im going to try to validate it if I can, because this is an

experiment. This is not somebody talking to God here. [Kerry laughs] Forget about that.

KC: Theres also something that they do repeatedly, which is say that they wont answer a

certain question because they wont interfere with free will. I mean, theres certain indications

that come through, and maybe you could talk a little bit about that, in terms of the positive

and the non-interfering level, the non-controlling aspect of the channel itself.

LKJ: Yeah, this is something thats frustrating for some people because, you know, they want

somebody to underwrite their experience on Earth. They want insurance that everything is just

so. The Cs are basically saying this is a school and youre here to learn and you can learn

things by doing a little studying and having a study guide, you know, Cliff Notes, but there are

many things you really have to experience.

And then of course we all know, and Im sure everybodys had the experience where as a

young person somebody told you: Oh, youll understand that when youre older, and you were

thinking at the time: What are you talking about? I understand perfectly. And then a few years

go by and you have some experiences and: Oh my God, thats what they meant. Now I

understand.

How many things are like that in our lives, where we cant really understand until weve had a

certain experience? And when youve had the experience, you understand in a way that no

amount of anybody telling you could make you understand.


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And then of course theres an old legend about a magic alligator skin or something, that every

time you made a wish, the skin got smaller and smaller. And getting your answers handed to

you on a plate, you know, makes the skin get smaller and smaller. The skin kind of like

represents something of you, because whenever you dont do your own work its like being

carried, its like a child.

KC: You dont develop the muscles.

LKJ: You do not develop. You do not learn how to walk. You dont learn how to think.

The Cs have said repeatedly: We are here to teach you to use your most valuable asset your

mind and to use it well, and to use it in the way it was intended to be used... not as

something to run programs that are put into you by your family, your society, your religion,

your politics, or your belief system.

Beliefs... you know, we dont deal in beliefs. Were trying to learn to use our minds without

believing. Believing is a cheap thing to do with the human brain. The human brain is a

marvelous, marvelous instrument and it is at the disposal of this Higher Essential Being thatyou are, a Mind that interfaces with our reality through this brain.

You know, have some respect! Dont ask to have everything handed to you.

Somebody asked me once, you know, what is the most important thing Ive learned from the

Cs? And I thought, well, the most important thing Ive learned is that I dont have to ask them

everything anymore. I can think things through on my own. I can figure things out on my own.

They have taught me how to think. They have deprogrammed me from my illusions. Some of

that was very difficult. I had illusions, like everybody. I believed the whole, you know: Love

and light, and just think nice thoughts, and nothing bad will ever happen to you.

Well, you know, the controllers of this world, The Powers That Be, the hyperdimensional

denizens that have designs on your future and your energy, would love for you to believe that:

Just think nice thoughts.

Well, Im telling you, theres an old Indian story about that, about the Mahout and the

elephant. You know, the Master is telling the disciples: Everything is God, God is in everything.

Its all God, you know, just become one with everything and be one with God.

So they go out for a walk in the forest, the Master and his disciples, and along comes anelephant handler. Hes running and screaming madly: Theres a mad elephant on the

rampage. Mad elephant. Get out of the way! Get out of the way! So the Master and most of

the disciples, they all run and climb trees.

And this one thinks: Well, the elephant wont harm me because all I have to do is remember

that the elephant is one with God, I am one with God, and the elephant wont So he stands

there being one with God and the elephant tramples him.

So hes laying there, smashed in the path and the Master comes to him and he says: Why

didnt you get out of the way?


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And he says: I was being one with God and one with the elephant.

And he says: Well, the elephant handler, who was one with God, was telling you to get out of

the way!

KC: [laughs]. Right. Absolutely.

LKJ: So, God has many faces, not all of them pleasant to behold.

KC: Um-hum. Absolutely. Yeah... and thats very wise.

So, what Id love is to find out, or actually have you talk about, is what the Cs are talking about

now and what theyre saying about the future, and what, if anything, theyre saying about

2012.

LKJ: Well, the Cs led us through a whole learning process where we learned a great deal about

pathology in humanity. We had to actually go through certain experiences before some of the

things that they said to us could even be taken onboard.

For example, one of the things that they say is that there are human-looking beings who do

not have souls as we understand it, as individuated souls, that they are basically animated by

the equivalent of an animal soul that goes back into a soul pool when the body dies.

And this of course really explains one of the problems which plagued human beings for

millennia, that there are people who are really convinced they have a soul and people who

declare that it does not exist. Well, what if theyre both right?

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: You know, what if the people who really know that they have a soul and really believe in

the existence of a soul are those who have one; and those who simply cannot ever under any

circumstances conceive of such a thing, or believe in such a thing, or see evidence for such a

thing, or have experiences of consciousness that is not directly connected to a physical body

maybe theyre telling the truth. And this is a really big conflict among human beings.

So, there is a form of this aberration, of this... You cant even call it an aberration because if

thats what is existing on the planet, if there are souled beings and non-souled beings, thats

just what is.

But there is a defective version of the non-souled being which is what we have come to know

as the psychopath. Our definition of the psychopath is really specific. Its a genetic thing.

Youre born that way; its not something that you acquire or get. And its also not something

that necessarily anybody can see from outside behaviors.

You may have to interact with an individual for a very long period of time before you come to

realize that they have no conscience and that they simply will do everything they do to further

their own ends and that nobody and no thing else ever turns them from what they want to do,

you know, their immediate gratification. And Im sure every one has had somebody like that in

their life and in their experience.


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But the bad thing about it is that these kinds of people tend, because of their nature, to rise

into positions of power, also, just as there are the ordinary garden variety sort that just live

out their lives as parasites on other people.

So that was the first thing that we had to learn about.

KC: Right, and those kinds of people actually tend to mirror behavior that they intuit, or they

realize that you want to see, and then they mirror that back. And so, of course those peoplerise up in through the ranks, because if an authority figure gets Yes all the time and gets

what they want, the kind of behavior they want in the person working for them, they are going

to promote that person.

LKJ: Its not just a question of mirroring, because they are great mimics and mirrors, of course.

But the bigger problem actually is the fact that the psychopaths took over religion, like

thousands of years ago, and they began to structure religion so that it would create belief

systems that would service their agenda.

And it is our understanding that these soul-less beings and psychopaths themselves are theinstruments of hyperdimensional beings, i.e., paranormal; i.e., alien.

Now, if youve studied the works of John Keel, and I know his book Operation Trojan Horse is a

little hard to get, but anybody who is interested in the subject of UFOs or aliens really, really

needs to read this book, because aliens, so-called aliens, are not a new thing. They are not

aliens from outer space

Documents

T10D Laura Knight Jadczyk