These teachings were given by Venerable Ajahn Pasanno (see bio below) at BIA,

Buddhadasa Indapanno Archives, on December 16th, 2013, for an afternoon retreat

of formal practice and instruction on the theme of: “New Year, New Life; Life Can Be

Improved.”

Sitting Meditation

Okay, very good. I generally have a soft speaking voice so I'm trying to get this

microphone up as close as I can. I'd just like to welcome everybody, and as David

said we will take this afternoon as an opportunity for practice time, and this evening

will be a formal talk, but I'll give some introductory thoughts and instruction on

sitting meditation. We can sit for a bit. After that, I'll do a bit of explanation of

walking meditation. Then we can go and do some walking meditation and come back

for another sit, and then I'll open it up for questions and have a period of questions

and answers until 5:30 p.m.

Slowing down and cultivating formally the qualities of mindfulness is a good

opportunity. Bangkok is a busy city and it's nice to be able to slow down. Of course

the center here is in a very peaceful corner of Bangkok so that to be able to make

good use of the environment and the actual center here is a good opportunity.

Reflecting on the purpose of meditation in Buddhism, when the Buddha speaks of

this, actually he doesn't even use the word meditation. That's kind of a Western

application of the English concept, the English word. The word that the Buddha

mostly used is bhavana, and there are a few other different words he used, but

that's the most frequently used word. Bhavana means cultivation or development,

so from a Buddhist perspective what we're doing is cultivating and developing

qualities of mind and heart that are conducive to well-being and clarity. It's

important to make that perspective fairly clear because sometimes when concepts

are translated, then it is not totally clear what we're doing.

One of the words that we use a lot for meditation is concentration like in the 8-fold

path, samma-samadhi, which is usually the meditative or meditation aspect of the

path. It's always translated as right concentration, and I don't know about anybody

else, but if I'm told to concentrate or if I have to get my concentration together, than

I start to get tense, I start to get tight. I think that's part of the feeling around that

concept of concentration--I have to concentrate my mind--so you already start to

tighten up. That's actually not the point of it. There are all sorts of ways we can

tighten up already, but meditation or this cultivation is not one of them. I particularly

like how it's translated into Thai---kwam dtang jai man---which means the firm

establishing of the mind. To me, that conveys a really positive approach so that

when we can firmly establish the mind, of course that requires all of the different

meditative aspects of the application of effort and the cultivation of mindfulness.

Then with the settling of the mind, we are able to bring the mind together so that it

actually functions harmoniously with itself. This aspect of cultivation, bhavana, is

that development of the inner qualities that help the mind to become clear and

steady. So that's what we're trying to do when we sit meditation.

There are many, many kinds of techniques and methods, and usually every teacher is

plugging their method, but it's not so much about the technique or the method. The

method is a framework or template of how we can then direct our attention and

settle the mind so that it's clear. When the mind is clear, then it's able to understand

things clearly. There's a phrase that comes up in the scriptures which conveys the

goal of what we're trying to do because in terms of a goal, the Buddha emphasized

over and over and over again that basically “I teach just one thing--suffering and the

end of suffering.” Just that bringing an end to the things that we find difficult,

problematic, stressful, dissatisfying, and that leave us in a place of dis-ease.

With that goal in mind, the quality that the Buddha talks about that arises out of

samadhi, that firm establishing of the mind, is a knowledge and vision of the way

things truly are. This is why clarity is so important because we're not trying to think

our way through anything, and we're not trying to come up with some new take on a

philosophical concept. What we're trying to do is apprehend and have a clear

knowledge and vision of the true nature of things. That needs a clear and steady

mind. It needs a heart that is not just pulled around by its moods and its likes and

dislikes. We tend to spend our time reacting to either the contact with the external

world or our relationship with our own internal world. If it goes the way we like it,

we're in a good mood, we're happy, it's very peaceful, and when things don't go the

way we like it, we get fed up, depressed, irritated, agitated and we go up and down

like this all the time. Even though we are in adult bodies, this kind of emotional state

is pretty much like little children so that we can smile and laugh when we get what

we want, and we frown and are miserable when we don't get what we want. It's that

simple.

And of course the point of Buddhist practice is to be able to have a base of clarity

and steadiness so that we're not shaken by the changing nature of the world around

us because the reality is that whether we have clarity and wisdom or we don't, the

world is going to change on us, the moods are going to change, our internal thoughts

and feelings are going to change. That's just the way things actually are. But what we

can do is develop and cultivate an internal foundation of clarity and steadiness.

When I think of the purpose of meditation, that's really what the purpose of it is. I

think it's helpful to have that framework because if we're meditating in order to, like

in the English language, we're trying to concentrate our mind, then we often times

make ourselves more tense and tight. Even looking at the scriptures and the

descriptions of a meditative state of mind, it says that, yes we have to have this one-

pointed concentration because that's how it's usually translated, that's how it's

usually described, which of course I think is a lousy translation. Again, it sets up

these expectations of what we should be. I think that this does ourselves a

disservice, and I think it usually creates unnecessary obstacles for our peacefulness,

our inner peace and inner clarity. What we're trying to do is cultivate an awareness

and attention that allows the mind to be more steady and to be more clear. When I

teach meditation in terms of a technique, then I'll invariably use mindfulness of

breathing mainly because that's what I like. But it's also what I'm most familiar with.

As I said, there are many different types of meditation, but I think whether one

practices mindfulness of breathing or one uses another technique, the actual

principles of the directing of attention and the attitude and frame of mind that we

try to set up, those will be very, very simple and easily applicable to whatever

meditation technique you're either familiar with or that you're comfortable with.

The instructions that I'll give will be using mindfulness of breathing, in good company

with, Ajarn Buddhadasa, the inspiration for this center, as mindfulness of breathing

played a large part in his instruction.

Way back in the early or mid 1960's, as was his want, he would take a theme and he

would explore it for week after week and month after month, sometimes even year

after year. Mindfulness of breathing was a theme that he explored for, I'm not sure

how long, but I know that they compiled many of the teachings that he gave in these

weekly talks, and there were three books that were compiled out of that. That's a lot

of talks. Then more toward the end of his life, he came back to mindfulness of

breathing and really emphasized it as a method. It's very flexible and it's very

immediate in the fact that if you're alive and you're actually conscious, then you can

pay attention to your breathing. It's always there, so it's a very handy meditation

object to rely on. It’s just taking the ordinary experience of breathing and using it to

establish our attention.

Sitting in a comfortable position, whether one's sitting on the floor or sitting in a

chair, the main thing is that one is sitting in a comfortable position so that one can

have an erect posture. The back is nice and straight, one's not leaning forward,

leaning back, off to the left, off to the right, and there's an opportunity for a nice

erect, alert posture. To be able to adjust the sitting, I notice that they have these

really neat cushions which help people because it's like having a cushion that raises

up your back, and then both of the knees are on the floor, with the legs kind of flat

on the floor. In Thai, if you sit like this (Ajahn demonstrates), this is a meditation

posture. If you sit like this (Ajahn demonstrates), that's sitting and eating. That's how

you eat so that ---nung samadhi, nang gin khao, mai muengan---sitting in meditation,

sitting to eat, they're not the same. Having the legs like this also helps you not cut off

the circulation. Having your knees and your legs flat on the floor helps the circulation

of the body. The same way with sitting up straight. It's not so straight so that you're

tense or you're forcing the posture, but it's just actually how your body is

constructed. To be able to allow the spine, the shoulders, the hips, and the head to

be in alignment helps you to be able to sit comfortably for a longer period of time

because of not cutting the blood off. If you hold your body up with a nice balanced

posture, that helps rather than trying to hold your body up using muscles--like your

shoulders or your upper body.

Sometimes we try to hold ourselves up, but it will tire you out. Often times when

people say, “Whenever I meditate I get back pain,” usually this means that one is

trying to hold oneself up upright using the upper body muscles, and it gets tiring and

it gets painful. But if there's a nice balanced posture and the back is nice and

straight, then the body holds itself up. Some people do have really good posture and

are able to sit in full lotus or half lotus. I've been a monk for 40 years and I'm still not

able to do it. The props are helpful, so have a cushion that is able to raise the back

up a bit, because what happens is if you sit flat, there isn't a tilt to the pelvis. What

happens is the back goes back like this (Ajahn demonstrates) and then you start to

try to hold your body up again with the upper body, and then it starts to hurt. If you

can raise your butt up a little bit higher using a cushion or using a full lotus posture,

then your pelvis tilts forward a little bit, and then your back comes up nice and

straight naturally.

Take a look at the Buddha image up at the front. Almost always Buddha images are

really good examples of good posture and a good meditator posture. You hardly ever

see, or I've never seen, a Buddha image up in the front of a meditation hall or a

shrine slumped like this (Ajahn demonstrates). They don’t make Buddha images like

that. It's a really good example of a balanced posture. Even sitting in a chair—you

need to be able to adjust your sitting so that you’re able to have a nice balanced

posture and have your back supported without getting caught into a slump, because

sometimes chairs are actually designed to slump, so they're not very helpful

sometimes. But one can always adjust one's posture whether you are on the floor or

in a chair, and then it turns it into a meditation posture, something very ordinary.

You're sitting anyway, you're breathing, you're paying attention to the sensation of

the in-breath, the sensation of the out-breath, taking the natural ability of the mind

to pay attention and to direct that attention to the experience of breathing in and

breathing out. You're not trying to regulate the breathing, you're not trying to

control the breathing. All you're trying to do is be attentive to the sensation of the

breath coming in and the breath going out. That takes a lifting up of interest and

motivation within the mind. I think most of our minds tend to just get caught by

whatever is either interesting or irritating or confusing, and we get swept up with

that, but we aim to consciously direct attention to a neutral object like the sensation

of the breath. It's a neutral object so your mind is not naturally inclined to want to

attend to that sensation. One has to bring up within oneself that interest and

motivation and then to sustain that by taking the sensation of the breath and paying

attention to it as the breath comes in, it touches the tip of the nose, comes into the

body and passes the throat, the chest, and the abdomen rises. As the breath goes

out, the abdomen falls, there's a sensation in the chest, the throat, the tip of the

nose, as the breath passes out of the body. So we are starting to pay attention to

that simple rhythm, the rhythm of the breath as it comes in, the breath as it goes

out, the sensation of touch, of contact, as we experience the breath in the body and

pay attention to that rhythm. We cultivate an interest in that rhythm, and as we do

that, with each in breath and each out breath, one has to pay attention, one has to

renew attention because it's hard to sustain attention on a neutral object for any

length of time. The mind tends to wander, the mind tends to have other thoughts

come up, other impressions, memories, associations, so that it requires us to bring

attention to the fore within the mind, and that's actually the purpose of the

meditation. As we bring that attention up to the forefront of our conscious

awareness, we sustain that, we develop it, we gain a momentum of awareness, and

clarity starts to establish itself so that that simple act of raising up attention within

the mind and sustaining it is the purpose of the exercise. As we cultivate a continuity

of that attention, it's natural that the mind becomes more clear and steady.

Now as I said there are going to be different thoughts come up, and one needs to

just reestablish attention. You don't have to analyze the thoughts, you don't have to

get into conflict with them, you don't have to argue with them, you don't have to get

fascinated by them, you don't have get drawn into the storyline of the thought

processes. Just there's a thought, and come back to the breath. The mind wanders

once, you re-establish awareness once. It wanders ten times, you re-establish

awareness 10 times. It wanders a hundred times, you re-establish attention 100

times. That's the exercise, not getting trapped by the tendencies of the mind to

proliferate and get lost in all the impressions, all the memories, all the speculations,

all the worries that we're capable of. We don't have to cultivate that bit of our mind

very much, we're pretty good at that already. What we're not very good at is

stillness and clarity. Giving importance to that and taking an interest in cultivating

that motivation allows us to sustain attention. Using something incredibly simple like

the sensation of the breath as it comes in and goes out, one can pay attention to the

whole experience of the in-breath, the experience of the out-breath, or one can just

pay attention at the tip of the nose as a point of contact or the rising and the falling

of the abdomen. A lot of that is basically whatever works, whatever seems

comfortable and interesting for you. So maybe what we can do is take this next

period of time and sit quietly, cultivate that attention on the in-breath and the out-

breath, and develop the inner qualities that help that attention and clarity to

establish itself and grow within. So we can just sit in a comfortable posture and I'll

ring the bell when we want to change postures. ........(group sits meditation)

Walking Meditation

So now we can take the opportunity to change our postures in meditation which

means we can have a period of walking meditation. I think it's worth noting that the

Buddha gave four different postures for the cultivation of meditation - sitting,

walking, standing, lying down - and that about covers what we do. We're constantly

changing our postures and moving from these different modes of how we engage

with the world around us, and using the postures to develop the continuity of

attention and awareness that I mentioned makes this kind of mental development,

this bhavana, something ordinary in the sense that it's not just something that we do

at a special time sitting on the floor cross-legged. We're developing the continuity of

attention in the sitting. There's a formal way of doing that, but there are other ways

of sitting also, with the directing of attention during the sitting, and the same with

walking. There is a formal way of cultivating walking meditation. It's an exercise in

developing that skill of establishing and sustaining attention.

We can take the opportunity to find a flat area either in the building or outside of

the building, as David mentioned, and usually we try to find a space, a nice flat

space, about 15, 20, 25 paces depending on the place that's available, picking a spot

and then walking back and forth within that spot. It's walking meditation, it's not

“wandering meditation.” Sometimes someone says, “Oh, I'm just going to do walking

meditation,” and people wander around for half an hour or an hour and then come

back. But the walking meditation is a formal exercise where we designate a nice flat

spot, for example, from this clock over to the wall, and then we walk to the wall and

come back, going back and forth within that container. What one is doing is setting

up a container for the cultivation of attention and awareness. In the same way,

when you sit in the cross-legged position, you are setting up a container for that

cultivation of attention and mindfulness so that you can develop a continuity of

awareness within that container.

After choosing a particular spot that you are going to walk in, it is helpful to walk a

bit slower than normal, crossing the hands, holding them in front of you, and

keeping the eyes downcast, usually about two meters in front of you, with eyes open

so that you can see where you are going, and then walking, paying attention to the

sensation of touch, as the feet are touching the floor, lifting the foot, moving it,

setting it down, lifting the foot, moving it, setting it down, bringing attention into the

physical sensation of touch and the contact of bringing it down to the sensation of

touching the floor. I can remember in my early years of meditation, I found that it

was extremely helpful to pay attention to something that was as far away from my

head as possible, where I'm not just thinking and thoughts are churning, cranking

out all the time, but instead just coming back into something very simple, the

sensation of touch and that simple rhythm of one step after another.

Of course it's not dissimilar to the meditations on the breath where one is paying

attention to one breath after another, cultivating the attention on something that is

quite neutral, learning how to relax into that simple rhythm of walking but being

attentive--and again, the mind will wander--and then learning how to set-up

mindfulness. Wherever it's wandered off to, you reestablish the mindfulness of

touch, the mindfulness of the walking itself, and as you pay attention to that rhythm

of walking, sensation of walking, getting to the end of the designated path that you

set, then you turn around and stop. The physical stopping helps you to stop and

check--Okay am I present, am I here?--because it's fairly easy to get into a rhythm--

walk back and forth, walk back and forth--and then you realize that you've been off

in some fantasy world of proliferation for 15 or 20 minutes, half an hour or a whole

hour, so each time that you get to the end of the path, just stop and check--Okay,

am I here, am I present? Reestablish mindfulness, or if the mind is right there, then

you can move into that rhythm of sustaining attention on the walking meditation. If

you're not present, then just reconnect with attention and mindfulness and go into

that rhythm of walking.

It's helpful to walk a bit slower than normal. It doesn't have to be super slow, but I

think it's helpful to be walking a bit slower than normal just because most of us need

to slow down a bit, and then if we do, if we walk at a normal pace, our minds will

probably continue on at their normal pace also, so that slowing down a little bit

helps the mind settle, and then we can direct the mind to the sensation of touch, of

the contact with the feet on the floor, bringing that awareness and attention to the

posture, keeping an alert posture and relaxing, not sort of forcing or hunching or

pushing or striving too hard. Just settle in to the rhythm of the walking with

mindfulness and you’ll find that is an enjoyable experience. So I encourage

everybody to go ahead and do walking in the area around here or down below or

outside, whatever works, and we will come back in 40 minutes or so.

Hindrances to Meditation

Having done a period of walking meditation, we can settle in for another sit and I'll

give a bit of instruction again first. I think one of the themes that is helpful to reflect

on when we are doing sitting meditation is the theme of the hindrances. One of the

ways of looking at the teachings that the Buddha gives is these different templates

for reflection or for investigation, one of which is reflecting on the qualities of mind

that are hindrances. The way that the Buddha describes the hindrances is that there

are five particular hindrances that overcome awareness and obstruct discernment.

That's a good description of what we want to be dealing with or clearing our hearts

from. One of the images that the Buddha gives for these hindrances is the image of

gold. When there are certain things mixed with gold and different metals, like tin,

lead, silver, iron, copper, then that gold becomes brittle and not very lustrous and

not very workable. But when those metals are smelted out, then the gold becomes

malleable, lustrous and workable.

The Buddha makes that same comparison between the mind and these five

hindrances. The mind that has these 5 hindrances: sense desire, ill will, sloth and

torpor, restlessness/worry, and skeptical doubt--that mind is not malleable, it’s not

lustrous, it's not very workable. But when we can free the mind of those habits of

mind, then the mind becomes brighter, malleable, workable, and of course that's for

one's benefit and growth. Awareness and discernment are able to come to the

forefront of the mind, of the heart. As we sit in meditation, as we cultivate our

development, our mental development, then we can both reflect and see if any of

these hindrances are present and then find some skillful ways to relinquish them to

free the mind from them. Of course all of them are all natural tendencies of the

mind. It’s pretty ordinary to have any of those particular hindrances come up. They

cloud the mind; they agitate the mind.

So to incorporate that reflection as part of that template of investigation as we're

breathing in and breathing out, sustaining attention, we bring up the reflective

ability of the mind---Is there sense desire? Are we getting caught in a fantasy for

some kind of sensory or sensual gratification? Rather than being content in the

present moment, the nature of sense desire is to take us out of the moment and

promise us gratification and happiness and comfort and security, and of course, the

product rarely lives up to the advertising. Being able to recognize- oh, that's sense

desire- and whether it's some gross fantasy or whether it's just some passing

proliferation, it still leaves the mind not very settled, not very clear, so we pay

attention to it, recognizing it for what it is---okay that's sense desire. Again, whether

it's some kind of gross fantasy or a niggling proliferation, it doesn't really matter. You

don't have to get into the content of it, just--Oh that's sense desire, that can be

relinquished--and then you can come back to the breath, come back to the attention

in the body, and then you make that choice to be willing to be content with that

presence of mind and clarity, rather than the fantasy. Of course that kind of sense

desire really drives the human consciousness. It's kind of everywhere, but be willing

to check that, recognize that, and return to the breath coming in, the breath going

out.

Similarly with ill will---ill will, aversion, irritation, anger, rage--whatever and however

it appears on the spectrum on the emotional level or the content of it---just be able

to recognize it -Okay that's ill will, that's aversion. Especially with ill will, the habit of

justification for that ill will and aversion is very strong. So too with the power of

righteous indignation (Ajahn chuckles) ...well…we can work up a lot of good logic to

be angry or to be upset at something, but the reality is as a meditator and a

practitioner, it's just more suffering. Why bother? It's that paying attention to that--

okay, putting it in that template of, okay this is ill will. It's not useful, it's not helpful,

it's not beneficial, it's not making my mind more lustrous, it's not making my mind

more malleable. In fact, it's actually doing the opposite. It's making me be more

miserable. So then we see it for what it is. Again, there is that theme of “knowledge

and vision of the way things truly are” so that when the mind is overwhelmed by

sense desire or ill will, the way it really is is that it's not clear, it's not steady, it's not

bright in any way, it's hindered. So you are able to know - this is a hindrance - and

then you are willing to relinquish it because you've got an option of choosing

something better. Peace and clarity is always a better option.

So the same with sloth and torpor, the habit of mind that drifts to dullness and that

just wants to kind of space out and kind of drift into a kind of oblivion of dullness.

That's a huge obstacle as a meditator. So often our energy comes from stimulation

from eternal objects or an internal proliferation, keeping it all moving, and then

when we don't do that, when we try to stop, when we try to settle, then the mind

falls asleep, so then we very consciously and very diligently bring up that awareness

and attention and take an interest in it. This is where it’s helpful to remind ourselves

that the meditation is something we have to be engaged in and interested in

because if we're just forcing the mind, trying to make it stay on our object, try to be

concentrated, to keep it from wandering through a force of will, there are usually

two results of that: either you shut out and drift into dullness and drowsiness

because it's a break at least from that tenseness of trying to force the mind, or the

mind starts to crank out proliferations, fantasies, and that restlessness kicks in. It

depends on our temperament and our personality. It depends on our particular

mood of the moment, but we make that very conscious reflection of working with

the hindrances so that we are transforming the mind from regular ordinary dullness

or proliferation to the mind of alertness and being present so that we have to be

engaged with that, to be present with that. Being present with the in-breath, being

present with the out-breath, and being present with the experience of the body,

tuning into the state of the mind at that time, how the mind and the heart are

actually resonating--where is it, what's it doing, what does it feel, what's it

experiencing---and taking an interest in that. So often meditation becomes an

attempt to force the mind into an idea that we have of what the peaceful mind is or

should be, and it's just an idea, it's just a concept. What's needed is actual presence

and knowledge and vision of the way things truly are right now, breathing in,

breathing out, being attentive, being aware, and letting that steadiness and clarity

open up from that space. It's very important.

Restlessness and worry, we're all familiar with that, I'm sure. They are ordinary

habits of mind. Skeptical doubt...if anybody starts meditation and practice with this

absolute conviction, total faith in what they're doing, they don't usually last very

long. It's usually an unrealistic assumption of what they would like things to be. To a

certain degree, with that kind of doubt, it's helpful to question, it's helpful to not just

have some fixed belief. But it's when there's this constant kind of undermining

quality where there's skeptical doubt, wavering, uncertainty, sort of dis-ease

because things are not very sure, and trying to make everything really sure. What it

does is it just takes you into more skeptical doubt. So that that kind of doubt is

destabilizing, it's not useful. A certain amount of questioning is really important.

You’re not trying to push away that skillful questioning, but it's just that wavering,

uncertainty, inability to sort of settle on something and keep doing it, that's the kind

of skeptical doubt that’s a hindrance.

See these five hindrances as a template of qualities of mind that one needs to

understand more clearly so that they don't overwhelm the mind, overwhelm the

heart. Then that attention returns to awareness and investigation so that the heart is

able to become more clear, more steady, with that continuity of attention and

awareness, breathing in, establishing that attention, sustaining attention, breathing

out trying to develop that continuity of attention and awareness, allowing the mind

to become more settled and clear. We can take that theme and use that in our

meditation, so we can sit for another 25 minutes or so. (Group sits meditation)

Question and Answer Session

Let’s open up an opportunity for anyone who has questions.

Q: I don't know if it's a question, but I see what you’re saying about the

hindrances...it seems like that’s everything I call my life, just, all these stories are

coming up, the ill will that you were speaking about, just looking at it and trying to

stay on the breath, but it's like no, no, don't do that, go to sleep, or hunch your

shoulders, or something like that. So you're just saying just keep on working at it and

it just gets used to focusing?

A: Yeah, sometimes when we first start, actually trying to train the mind and

investigating it, that feeling is a bit overwhelming in the sense, that--Wow--that's all

my life is. But the reality is not quite like that at all. We have all these various options

of bringing attention and awareness, and even if it seems very fleeting at the

beginning, it's something we can be building on, and then there is the cultivation of a

direct lifting up of loving kindness or compassion. Those are very ordinary

meditations. In a sense, they are very common meditations where one is clearly

focusing on those very wholesome mental states and qualities. One can be directing

attention to virtue and restraint, making it conscious, as well as generosity...all of

these are very wholesome and positive mental states and mental qualities that we

can be encouraging. Then those start to gain traction in the mind and we're able to

replace those unskillful tendencies that are hindrances with something that is going

to be uplifting and brightening for the mind. That's why it's that sense of cultivation

and development of wholesome and skillful mental states that actually support our

well-being and inner tranquility.

Q: I know that “Secular Buddhism” is popular at the moment, especially in Europe,

so I was wondering if you think it is useful or not?

A: Well, anything is useful if it's picking up the actual teachings of the Buddha, and

applying it in a skillful way. I think the idea of making that kind of distinction of

“Secular Buddhism” as it if it’s different from some other kind of Buddhism, I don't

know if that's so useful because I think what we want to be doing is picking up the

teachings of the Buddha and realizing that the Buddha is addressing the human

condition, and finding ways to apply the teachings that address the human condition

of suffering. The reality is that in a traditional Buddhist culture, Buddhism is applied

in all sorts of different ways, within the culture, within the society, and it doesn't call

itself something different than Buddhism. So I think in the West, I think it might be a

bit confusing to use that term “Secular Buddhism”. I think what they're trying to do

is trying to make Buddhism more palatable, but I think that the Buddha's teachings

are that if you’re addressing the human condition skillfully and giving people the

tools to apply it at whatever level and area of interest that they have, then the

Buddha's teachings are incredibly flexible and applicable.

For example, I have contact with the people in America who are doing things like

bringing Buddhist mindfulness practice and teachings into areas of education, and

it's just basically the Buddha's teachings that are then adapted and applied in a way

that is useful within that setting, that area. This is an example of Buddhism being

used properly in a secular setting. But you could say that I have an issue with the

term “Secular Buddhism,” which comes with the idea of “Secular Buddhism” being

something different. I think this does a disservice to the teachings and it makes it a

bit narrower, which I think is unfortunate. I think the Buddha's teachings are easily

translatable into whatever situation one finds oneself because human beings are

always finding ways to create suffering. The opportunity to find those skillful means

as a way to address that is available. Does that make any sense?

Q: Yes it does. I was just asking also because you spent time with Ajahn

Buddhadasa, and some people consider his teachings “secular” because he didn't

really focus on the supernatural. Although pretty similar to Ajahn Chah, his way of

explaining karma and rebirth is considered “secular” by some people. That's why I'm

asking.

A: I doubt that Ajahn Buddhadasa saw it as secular, which is maybe a better

standard to gauge it by. I think Aj. Buddhadasa just felt that he was bringing the

Buddha’s teachings to people so that they could use them. I think Aj. Chah was very

similar. If you recognize the value of the teachings and learn how to apply them in

whatever way one can, then I don't think it's helpful to divide it into a “Secular

Buddhism” because secular is a narrow application, a narrow definition, so I don't

think it's helpful.

Q: Ajahn, would you please talk a little bit about contemplation in meditation. You

mentioned earlier about using different methods, and my understanding is that they

help you to calm the mind. How does one get into the state of contemplation

whether it's about anicca, dukkha or anything really, without disturbing that calm

state of mind? How do you ease into that state?

A: Well this is part of the cultivation of mindfulness and clear comprehension as

one is developing the attention, developing the focus and settling of the mind. It’s

important that the mind is malleable, luminous, and workable. Part of that malleable

and workable quality means that the mind is ready...it's able to keep settling, but

then it's malleable and agile to reflect on the nature of the experience. Sometimes it

will fall into those categories of annica (impermanence), dukkha (unsatisfactoriness),

or anatta (not self), but it's not a mechanical plunking-it-into that kind of putting the

label on it, trying to just say it over and over again or hit the defilements over the

head with -oh this is impermanent. That's not contemplation. So to really sort of

allow the mind to start to look at it from the perspective of--oh look at that, that's

shifting and changing...oh look at that, I really got caught by that, there's this kind of

inner dialogue and it’s important to give some space to that dialogue, to reflect, or

to recognize that quality of that experience--that really doesn't belong to me. Why

did I take that so seriously? That's really not mine at all. Why did I pick it up? So

pursuing it like that, so it’s held a bit more lightly and then tuning into the quality of

the mind where--okay, the mind is still--it enhances the stability and clarity so that

one reflects...reflecting on the experience, contemplating it using the thought

process, but it’s not stirring up the mind. It’s not agitating the mind, it's actually

helping the mind. It's important to remember that the word that we call mindfulness

in Pali is sati, and sati has its root is in memory, so it's more like recollection. It’s that

recollection, that remembering of what we're doing, what we're doing it for, and

putting this in a context, and the context of course is always freedom from suffering.

Sometimes the stillness of the mind is more important and sometimes the reflection

is more important--but it's a part of the spectrum of how we apply our attention and

how we recollect as we're working with the meditation object, the experience of the

body and the mind--so that when we lose the plot and get swept up in something, or

we sink and fall into dullness, then we need to use the thought process to

contemplate--Okay...what's the nature of this experience?--because the quality of

interest and motivation is really important. There's a set of teachings that the

Buddha gives that is called the four bases of success, spiritual success, and the first

quality is chanda, which is another word for desire, but it's desire in its positive

application, so it's more like interest or motivation. So we need to be able to bring

up that interest and motivation, the desire in order to keep on track, and that can be

expressed in those thoughts of contemplation, recollection, and of investigation that

help us stay on track. When the mind starts to get a bit too wound up, just come

back to the breath, settle, and so you're always tuning in and trying to watch that

balance.

Q: You said that you have to adjust and think about contemplating, but in your

life, in your working time, how can you do that? Like when I'm sitting here, I can do

that, like contemplating, thinking, and adjusting the mind, but in our working time,

can we still do that?

A: Well, yes, in the same way that you bring mindfulness to the experience that

you're having. Actually, I remember somebody asking Ajahn Chah that same

question--It's okay in formal meditation, we're able to do that, but what about in

daily life and with contact with the world? And Ajahn Chah said, well, in daily life

with contact with the world do you still breathe? (Ajahn laughs) So that you've got

the breath, and also in the same sense this is important. You wouldn't forget to

breathe because it's essential. And the commitment to truth and to peacefulness

and clarity, it has that same commitment, then it's natural that you lift that up, you

work at that, because a life without contemplation or clarity or stability of heart is

like stopping breathing, you just sort of die. So that in the same way that you

physically die, you're just sort of spiritually cutting yourself off from the opportunity

to be peaceful and to establish clarity and well-being. Why would one do that? The

more clearly you can reflect on that and contemplate, then you just won’t want to

relinquish the mind to your habits and conditioning of the world around you.

Q: Could you give us some examples? In this situation right now in Bangkok, like

there's a lot of news...many things that are making people kind of a little bit crazy.

There are several different kinds of information that are kind of divided...and when

you see the news, you will feel sometimes upset, sometimes angry sometimes ...

A: That's exactly it. Just by filling the mind with useless information, which is

mostly what the news is then yeah, you experience all sorts of confusion, so why

even bother? It's a conscious choice to go and turn your television on, turn your

computer on, go and check the....there's just not enough time to waste by doing

that, or if the conversations that you engage in...It's like since I've come here to

Thailand--I arrived a couple weeks ago, and people keep trying to engage me about

the political situation, and it's sort of like, I don't care. Not in the sense that I don't

think it's serious or that it's not a problem, but I don't care in sense that I don’t want

to be getting involved in whatever side people are working themselves up about

because the problem is much deeper than that. And I think we have to pay attention

to the deeper problem, and the deeper problem both human condition-wise, and

the deeper problem even politically, so that it's much more important to sift through

the stuff that agitates the mind, come back to the essentials.

Q: Thank you Ajahn. I have a question about pleasure. I find that you need some

pleasures even though they don't last, things like fine arts and being in nature. I'm

curious, how did you manage as a monk in your earlier years at Ajahn Chah's

monastery, where there was almost no pleasure. You had poor food, you had to get

up early in the morning, you had to work very hard all day long, there was no music,

no entertainment, really nothing that people would consider pleasure. How did you

manage to keep going over the years until the present?

A: That's a really important question because it is essential that we experience

pleasure, that we experience happiness and the Buddha is not actually against it. The

whole point of freedom from suffering is so that one can experience something that

we're actually hardwired to be drawn to. We're drawn to pleasure...it feels a lot

better than suffering.

For myself, just the pleasure of simplicity, the pleasure of being in nature, the

pleasure of being around virtuous beings who were incredible examples for the

world, the pleasure of seeing goodness in other human beings. One of the

extraordinary perks of being a monk is that everybody tries to be good around you.

That's really pleasurable, to see the goodness of the human beings, the human

condition. Those aren't the same pleasures of gratification and entertainment, but

they're very real pleasures and it's important for myself or for any monastic, in order

to stick with it, to stay with it, that they do find it pleasurable. It's obvious that there

are difficulties--not being used to austerity or having to face the frustrations of

having a mind that doesn't comply with our wishes, but instead to be able to pay

attention to ways of how to experience pleasure, happiness.

It's actually...like in reading the suttas, that's a really important turning point for the

Buddha, for the Bodhisatva, in his quest for enlightenment. There's a discourse in

the Majjima Nikaya where the Buddha is recounting his experience of this austerity

and extreme ascetic practices, basically how miserable he was, and then coming to a

point where he was sitting quietly, the mind being peaceful at some point, and then

remembering the happiness and pleasure that he felt as a young boy sitting in

meditation under the rose apple tree. It's a very well-known story in Buddhism and

...but it's interesting how the Buddha reflects on in that sense, because he poses a

question, because he remembers this happiness and then he says---Why am I afraid

of that happiness? Why am I afraid of that happiness? That happiness is utterly

wholesome and not censorable by the wise? Why am I afraid of it? Maybe that's part

of the path. And then he has this deep insight and kind of excitement--it IS the path.

That's where he relinquished his extreme austerities and then started eating again

with that quality of pleasure that comes from a relinquishing of the hindrances.

It’s interesting when the Buddha describes the development of meditation,

describing the different types of pleasure and well-being and delight that the mind

experiences in relinquishing the hindrances. The first jhana is based on the pleasure

born of seclusion. When we experience pleasure in seclusion, solitude, not being

overly stimulated and engaged with things, there is a pleasure there. The second

jhana is pleasure born of the unification of the mind. When the mind and the heart

really unify and aren't at odds with each other internally, incredible pleasure arises.

The Buddha also talks of the pleasure and happiness that arises from living within

the bounds of virtue. It's the pleasure of blamelessness, the happiness of

blamelessness and non-remorse. It’s being able to live in that way.

Certainly for myself, as a monk, yes I can look back on 40 years of living in a way,

that, yeah I don't have to feel remorseful or regret about anything. And often times

we don't really think about how those things can be pleasurable, but they are, it's a

very important basis of happiness. Of course the happiness of just seeing and having

that conviction is--wow that's really the way things are, this is true. So it’s that

wisdom and discernment that sees--well ,that's really the true nature of things.

That's a tremendous source of happiness.

*Biography of Venerable Ajahn Pasanno

Ajahn Pasanno was born on July 26, 1949 in The Pas, Manitoba, Canada. In 1972 he finished his studies at the University of Winnipeg, Canada, and graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in History. A year later, in 1973, he travelled to Asia through Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, to India, Nepal and finally Thailand, where Ajahn Pasanno travelled to a meditation monastery in Chiang Mai. He studied the Tripitaka in English and enrolled in a month of meditation retreat. In January 4, 1974, at the age of 24, Ajahn Pasanno took ordination at Wat Pleng Vipassana in Bangkok, Thailand with Venerable Phra Khru Ñāṇasirivatana as preceptor. During his first year as a monk he was taken by his teacher to meet Ajahn Chah, with whom he asked to be allowed to stay and train. One of the early residents of Wat Pah Nanachat, Ajahn Pasanno became its abbot in his ninth year. In the year of 1989, Ajahn Pasanno established Poo Jom Gom Monastery in Ubon Rachatani Province, Thailand, as a forest retreat facility for Wat Pah Nanachat. One year later, he also established Dtao Dum Monastery in Kanchanaburi Province as another forest retreat facility Buddhist monks. During his incumbency, Wat Pah Nanachat developed considerably, both in physical size and reputation. Spending

24 years living in Thailand, Ajahn Pasanno became a well-known and highly respected monk and Dhamma teacher. He moved to California on New Year's Eve of 1997 to share the abbotship of Abhayagiri Monastery, Redwood Valley, California, with Ajahn Amaro. In 2010 Ajahn Amaro accepted an invitation to serve as abbot of Amaravati Buddhist Monastery in England. Ajahn Pasanno is now the sole abbot of Abhayagiri.