by Jim Amash with Eric Nolen-Weathington

by Jim Amash with Eric Nolen-Weathington

Comics’Fast & Furious Artist

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Table of ContentsIntroduction by Walter Simonson. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4

Chapter One: Inspiration All Around. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6

Chapter Two: A Heroic Departurre. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17

Chapter Three: How to Break in the Marvel Way . . . . . . . . . . 33

Chapter Four: The Workhorse Hits His Stride . . . . . . . . . . . . 59

Chapter Five: A New Start with a Different Company . . . . . . . . . 87

Chapter Six: The Craft of Creating Comic Book Art . . . . . . . . . . 97

Art Gallery . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110

DR. STRANGE, HULK, SILVER SURFER ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

Jim Amash: You probably don’t rememberwhen this happened, but I know you knowwhen and where you were born.Sal Buscema: Of course. [laughs] I was bornin Brooklyn, New York, on January 26, 1936.My father’s name was John, and my mother’swas Sadie. My brother John was eight yearsolder than I, born December 11, 1927.

JA: Do you have any other brothers or sisters?SB: Yes, though unfortunately they’re alldeceased. The oldest, Al, was born on July 28,1923. My sister, Carol was born on June 22,1929.

JA: Who was the first one to draw in yourfamily?SB: In so far as I can remember, it was John.I recall a couple of occasions — and this is a

recollection from when I was five or six yearsold — when my brothers both painted a land-scape of some kind. It was sort of a friendlycompetition. I think they may have beenpainting from a photograph. They were bothworking in oils, and having a good time. Itwas just a fun thing that they were doing.John was always dabbling in this kind ofstuff. He loved to draw and paint. I think Al— there was a very friendly sibling rivalrybetween them. They were very close, verydevoted to each other. They loved each otherdearly, as we all did. Al may have been kid-ding around and said, “Hey, I can do as wellor better than you can. I’m going to paint apicture of this right next to you.” They bothhad canvas boards and a couple of easels.

JA: What inspired you and John to draw?SB: My maternal grandfather, whom I neverknew — my mother was just 13 when hepassed away — was a musician by profession.He taught music; I believe it was the accor-dion that he taught. He also made accordions,and was an amateur artist. According to mymother he was quite good. She described ingreat detail some of the work he did. I believehe worked mostly in charcoal. I rememberone description she related to us about adrawing he did that was rather large of thisyoung boy and young girl running through aforest in a wind storm with the trees blowingaround them. The way she described it wasquite impressive. Unfortunately, all his workis lost. We never saw it, so I only have herdescriptions to go by. But that may be wherewe got some of the genes.

The earliest recollection that I have is ofJohn sitting at the dining room table drawing.He loved to draw. I would say that John wasgreatly responsible for me pursuing drawing.He always said that as a kid I was better thanhe was. I’m not sure I agree with that,because I always believed that John wasmaybe not necessarily more gifted than I —although his drawing was much better. I didnot consider myself a really good draughts-man by any stretch of the imagination, and

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(below) For many years,Sal participated in Fridaynight live model drawingsessions at a local college. While in histeens, he had to rely ondrawing from the statues housed at theMetropolitan Museum of Art.©2010 SAL BUSCEMA

Chapter OneInspiration All Around

7

John was definitely much more dedicatedthan I. John was definitely an inspiration,but I got my inspiration from other areas, as well. I loved to go to museums as a kid.When I was in high school, I visited theMetropolitan Museum of Art as often as Icould. It was almost like a home away fromhome for me. I particularly loved the roomthey had devoted to Michaelangelo’s sculp-tures. Of course, primarily they were allreproductions, but excellent ones. I justloved that room. I spent hours in there draw-ing the sculptures.

JA: What time period are we talking about?SB: I went to a junior high school that wasactually the first year of high school. So whenI went to the High School of Music & Art inNew York, which is now the LaGuardia HighSchool of Music & Art and Performing Arts— John went there also, by the way — I wasactually in my second year, which would putme at about 14 and a half.

JA: When you were drawing the sculptures,what were you paying attention to?SB: At that age you’re really not payingattention, Jim, because you’re so young.You’re a neophyte in whatever you’reendeavoring to do. I was simply trying toreproduce what I saw. That’s all. I was justhaving fun because I enjoyed drawing.

JA: There were two high schools in NewYork: Music & Art and the School ofIndustrial Arts. Why did you choose Music &Art?SB: Probably because that’s the school thatJohn went to. [laughs] Being eight years olderthan I, you have to consider that I was just alittle kid when John was going to high school.John was kind of a hero to me. Even in laterlife he was a man that I greatly admired. If itwas good enough for John, it was good enoughfor me. In later years I somewhat regretted it,because Music & Art was devoted to the finerarts, whereas Industrial Arts was devoted to commercial arts. And that waswhat I wanted to be: a commercial artist.When you graduate from Music & Art, youreally don’t know anything about the com-mercial art industry, which is the field that I wanted to enter. In the Industrial Arts high school, you would have gotten some very,very pertinent training in that respect.

(above) Sal’s olderbrother, John Buscema,at his drawing board,circa mid-1970s.

JA: Would John ever critique your work totry to help you?SB: Absolutely, constantly. I remember oneinstance. There was a photograph of anOriental man, a rather large profile shot inLife magazine. I decided, “Oh, I’d just love todraw this,” and I drew it on a pad with a reg-ular #2 pencil. I always showed my drawingsto John and the rest of my family. He justflipped over it. “Boy, this is just terrific!” andhe explained to me why he thought it was sogood; that the pencil strokes I had used gavethe flesh an almost breathable feeling. I’mparaphrasing what he said, but words to thateffect. He was very encouraging. I remem-bered what he said, and tried to apply it toanother drawing that I did of a similar head,but it didn’t come out nearly as good. [laugh-ter] So what I did subconsciously did notwork consciously.

JA: John had already come back to comicsbefore you got into the field. Why did John goback to comics?SB: John lived in Port Jefferson, Long Island,which is quite a distance from Manhattan. Hehad to commute, I think it was close to fivehours a day. Maybe not quite that much, butpretty close. It was really wearing him out. Hewould get home very late at night. It was thetype of business where if they asked you towork on the weekend, you had to work on theweekend. If he had to work at night, a lot oftimes he would miss the last train going out toLong Island, and have to spend the night inthe city. He really hated that side of it. Heloved the work, but he hated the commute. Itwas a real conflict for him.

Ironically, he ran into Stan Lee on thestreet one day. They got to talking and Stansaid, “Hey, the comic book industry is begin-ning to flourish again, John. Come and seeme. We need guys.” When he saw that opportunity of being able to work at home, itwas no contest. He took it up right away.

JA: Why did you leave Design Center to gointo comics?SB: For the simple reason that I’d always likedthem. I didn’t have that [chuckles] hatred thatJohn said he had. And it also afforded me theopportunity of working at home. That is atremendous plus. You have that independenceand freedom. I’m a fairly disciplined person,so I didn’t have to worry about goofing off. Foras long as I’ve been doing comics I put in a reg-ular five-day week, eight hours a day. I wascommuting into Washington, DC, and the traf-fic was horrible. It took me over an hour to getto work and over an hour to get home, unlessthere was an accident and it took a lot longer.Once I added it all together and saw thatcomics were on the way back and things weregoing well again, I said, “Let’s take a shot andsee what happens.”

JA: So John didn’t suggest it to you.SB: Oh, no. As a matter of fact, I asked him,“Do they need guys?” and he said, “Yes.”

JA: What did you do? Did you make anappointment with Stan?SB: I actually made up six pages of pencilsamples — just a very simple storyline. I usedthe Incredible Hulk as the character.

Let me digress for a minute. I had to learnhow to do comic books. I had never drawnsuper-heroes before. I had storytelling abilitybecause of my training in film strips and thatkind of thing, but I had no idea how to docomics. So I went out and bought a wholebunch of Marvel comics. I bought those drawn

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Chapter TwoA Heroic Departure

(below) Opening splashpage from The IncredibleHulk Annual #14. It is fitting that Sal used Hulkin the samples he drewin order to get work atMarvel. Sal went on todraw The Incredible Hulkover an incredible ten-year run. ART COURTESY OF EELCO VELDHUIZEN

HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVELCHARACTERS, INC.

by Jack Kirby and Gene Colan and all the guyswho worked for Marvel, and literally workedevery night for about a year to learn how to dothese things. I was that determined to do it. Ithought my wife was going to divorce me.[laughter] Literally, I would come home fromwork, we’d eat dinner, and I’d go down to mystudio. I had a studio at home even though Ididn’t do any freelance work. And I would justwork and practice, and work and practice.

JA: What were you concentrating on?SB: How to produce a dynamic page. When Isaw what guys like Kirby and Gene Colan,and my brother, and Jim Steranko weredoing, I would draw up a page and I wouldlook at it and say, “God, this is awful.” It tookme a whole year working practically everynight and every weekend. There were alsosome things going on at the studio where I wasworking that I was not happy about, so thiswas a very, very attractive alternative.

JA: Did you show the samples to John?SB: Oh, sure. The first few samples I didwhich I thought were okay, he ripped them toshreds. He said, “You’re going to be compet-ing with guys that can put this stuff to shame.You’ve got to be as good as they are.” He crit-icized them over the phone, and essentiallywhat he said was, “Your drawing is okay.Everything is okay, but you need to become150% more dynamic. The stuff’s just got tofly off the page. You have to be much morepowerful. What you’re doing is too passiveand too quiet.” That was the kind of thingStan wanted from all of his guys. The firsttime I talked to Stan he went through thatsame spiel. He told me he wanted everythingto be powerful. “Once you draw it and youthink it’s good enough, redo it and make iteven better.” In other words, John was relat-ing to me what Stan had related to him.

So I went back to work some more. He sawthings that I was not able to see at the time.Once I got into the business, then I realizedwhat he was talking about. Once I got thehang of it I made up those six sample pages ofpencils — just pencils, which I regret,because I wanted to be an inker. [laughter] Ididn’t want to pencil. My first few jobs forMarvel were inking jobs, but I did those whileworking for Design Center. I wanted to workfull-time for Marvel, so it was out of necessitythat I penciled.

JA: What did Stan Lee think?SB: He loved them. He asked me to come onup to New York, which I did, and I wentthrough the most fantastic interview I’veever had in my life. [laughs] Stan was leap-ing on his chair and his desk, just to relate tome physically what he wanted on a comicbook page. It was fascinating and it wascharming all at the same time. He made thesound effects, the whole nine yards. Ithought the guy was going to leap out thewindow. He demonstrated every other wayyou could possibly demonstrate what hewanted on those pages — the dynamics andso on.

JA: Did you have to go home and do moresamples?SB: No, they started me on The Avengers,which was a nightmare because it was a groupbook, and those are the most difficult to do. Ibelieve Sam Grainger was the inker.

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(above) A photo of Salduring his Avengers daysused in Marvel editorialmaterial.

(below) For this 1969cover illustration forMarvelmania Catalog #2,Sal reworked his splashpage from Avengers #71. ART COURTESY OF JERRY BOYD

ALL CHARACTERS ™ AND ©2010MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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JA: So if you drew a character sneering,you’d be sneering.SB: Oh, absolutely. And everybody does that.I remember John doing that all the time. Thefew times I did work with John, I would lookup sometimes, and he’d have a real snarl onhis face.

JA: Were you identifying yourself with thosecharacters? Were you putting yourself inthose scenes?SB: Not really. I tried to feel what was hap-pening. If somebody lunges at somebody else,you’ve got to feel it. You want to feel theimpact of the blow. You want to feel the fistgoing past the guy’s jaw. You’ve got to feelthat inside you before you start drawing it.

JA: Jack Kirby told me once that sometimes ifhe was angry about something, that angerwould come out on the page. Did you ever feelthat way?SB: I didn’t let what was happening to mepersonally effect what I was doing on thepage. But when you’re working on the page,you’re living the moment of the page. You’vegot to, otherwise it won’t work.

JA: How did you develop your concept ofcharacter design and costume design?SB: I don’t know if I ever had it. [laughter]People don’t think that’s one of my strongpoints. Later on, into the ’80s and ’90s, I gotfairly good at it. I don’t think I ever createdany characters that were very prominent.I’m not sure I ever had a great feeling for it.Creating characters and costumes was notone of my strong suits. One of the ones thatlasted for a while was the Falcon. JohnRomita drew the initial costume, but theywanted to jazz it up a little, which I did in aCaptain America story. I redesigned his cos-tume, and they loved it. I thought, “Oh, myGod. It’s just awful.” They thought it wasgreat. What do I know?

JA: In the early days of you working forMarvel, how often did you go to the offices?SB: I would probably go up there three or fourtimes a year. Every two or three months or so.

JA: What were your impressions of SolBrodsky?SB: Sol was the nicest guy in the world, agreat human being. I loved working for him,

and I think everybody else did, too. If you didsomething he didn’t like, he would yell at youon the phone. “Come on, Sal. Get with theprogram,” or something like that. But he wasa terrific guy.

I remember one thing specifically. It wasthe first Silver Surfer book that I inked overJohn’s pencils — the one with Thor [issue #4].There was a one-panel close-up of Loki, whowas supposed to be in a spirit form, so theholding figure lines had to be very, very lightto make it seem like he's not flesh and bone.Sol called me and said, “Sal, this is weak. It’snot such and such and so and so.” “Sol, this iswhat the story calls for.” There was a pauseand he said, “Well, okay, but this is what Iwant you to do with it.” He sent it back to me,and I had to redo a few things on the head. Ithink it was because Sol didn’t want to admitthat he was wrong. [laughter] I won’t accusehim of that, really, because he was a great guyto work for, and I got very, very few calls fromSol about anything like that.

JA: Did you spend any time with JohnRomita?SB: One specific time was when they asked meto do a Spider-Man story. I believe they wereconsidering giving me Amazing Spider-Man,which I think John was working on at the

(above) Cap may beavoiding the issue, buthe’s right. Sal was toldto jazz up Jazzy John’srecent costume updatefor the Falcon, and thewings Sal added had theadditional purpose ofenabling our hero to fly. ART COURTESY OFWWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ART

CAPTAIN AMERICA, FALCON ™AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARAC-TERS, INC.

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time. Because this was the number one bookfor Marvel, Stan wanted to talk to me in per-son about it. I had to go up to New York, andtalk with Stan and John. They were bothtelling me things I needed to know about thecharacter and so on, and then John and Iwent out to lunch. We had a real nice lunchtogether, and John was relating to me how heapproached doing comics, and we talkedabout personal stuff — family and such. Itwas a very pleasant lunch. And I don’t thinkI ever got to do the Spider-Man book, and I can’t remember why. Maybe they justthought I wasn’t ready. Shortly thereafterJohn did very loose breakdowns on a Spider-Man book that they wanted me to do the finishes for. That was one of the few AmazingSpider-Man books that I worked on.

JA: As you were learning in those early days,were you fast or slow?SB: At first I was very slow. If I knocked outsix or eight pages a week I was happy. Then Istarted getting a little bit better, and I couldprobably do a couple pages a day. But once Ihit that five-year transitional period, I was likea machine. I could grind the stuff out. Whatwas amazing about it, to me anyway — andthere might be people who disagree with me —was I was doing the best work of my career. Itwas just an amazing process. Everything justfell into place, and all of a sudden I found itvery easy to do. And it was a lot more fun.

JA: How long did it take you to get comfort-able with the concept of super-heroes andsuper-villains? It was such a change for you.SB: I was never uncomfortable with it. Ithought it was a blast. I had a lot of fun.

JA: John was always saying how he hatedthese characters, but you didn’t feel that wayyourself.SB: No, I did not. I enjoyed it. I thought itwas a great way to make a buck. [laughter]

JA: Do you think John really hated super-heroes as much as he said he did?SB: You know, Jim, there’s a dichotomy here.John did not enjoy drawing Spider-Man.John enjoyed drawing people. When you’redoing a character like Spider-Man, you’ve gotto draw buildings and cars, you’ve got todraw all the junk that goes on around theseguys — the interiors of rooms, and so on andso forth. That’s what John did not enjoy. Heloved to draw. Drawing was his life. If thisman was for some reason unable to draw, hewould’ve died not when he did, but years andyears earlier. He ate, slept and breatheddrawing. This was the reason he did not enjoycomic books that much. Now, I’m not sure the[chuckles] hatred that he professed was asintense as he made it sound. For example, heloved drawing Conan, because Conan waspure fantasy. He didn’t have to draw sky-scrapers. He would draw these neat, little his-torical towns that really did not exist. Hecould create anything he wanted. He reallyenjoyed that part of it. That’s where thedichotomy exists. John loved to draw, butthere were some things he hated drawing, andunfortunately in comic books you have todraw all this other stuff.

(above) Sal inked JohnRomita on this cover toAmazing Spider-Man #95.He also inked Romita’sloose breakdowns forthe interiors of thisissue. ART COURTESY OF HERITAGEAUCTIONS

SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MAR-VEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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To a great degree, I’m like that, too.That’s why I didn’t enjoy penciling so much.How long did I draw Spectacular Spider-Man? I did Spider-Man for twelve years, andI enjoyed a lot of it, but there was a lot of it Idid not enjoy.

JA: What led you to start inking for Marvel?SB: I wrote Sol Brodsky a letter. I wanted tofind out who to talk to about getting inkingwork, and my brother said, “Talk to Sol.” SoI wrote this very nice letter and told him allabout myself, and that I could do anythingwith a brush or pen, and that I was also verydisciplined and a very dependable individual.I told him there was nothing more that Iwould like to do than ink work for Marvel. Hecalled me and said, “Sal, we don’t have any-thing right now, but hang loose and I’ll try tocome up with something for you.” I called hima couple of times just to bug him a little bit

and let him know that I was still alive, andeventually the first job came through. It was arush job. I knocked myself out to get it backto him real fast. It was a Western. I believethe character was called Gunhawk. He hadtwo guns, and for some reason he grabbed theleft gun with his right hand and the right gunwith his left hand. I don’t know how that’sphysically possible [laughter], but that’swhat he did. I don’t remember who the pen-ciler was, but I worked my fanny off on thatto do as good a job as I could possibly do.

JA: The reason I’m asking is that I have“Gunhawk” [Western Gunfighters #1] downas 1970, but Silver Surfer came out in ’69.SB: It can’t be 1970, because that was thefirst job I did for Marvel, and I remember themonth. It was June of 1968.

JA: Maybe it didn’t get printed right away.

(below) This early ’70sad was obviously donefor a comic conventionprogram book — mostlikely one of the NewYork Comic ArtConvention shows. Sal’sfirst inking assignmentfor Marvel was a“Gunhawk” story, butby the time of this adthe Western hero hadpicked up a partner.ART COURTESY OFWWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ART

THE CAT, GUN HAWKS, MAN-THING, SHANNA THE SHE-DEVIL,SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. DOC SAVAGE ™ AND ©2010ADVANCE MAGAZINE PUBLISHERS, INC. D/B/A CONDÉNAST PUBLICATIONS.

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Chapter ThreeHow to Break in the Marvel Way

JA: You worked on Sub-Mariner for a while,again with Roy. How did you feel aboutdrawing underwater environments?SB: It was fun. It was better than drawingbuildings. [laughter]

JA: As you continued to work with Roy, didhe still give you the same amount of plot?SB: Roy was very consistent. He gave you aplot, which means there was no dialogue, andhe wasn’t telling you specifically what to draw.He wrote a plot that was very complete, butyet gave me tremendous freedom to do what Iwanted to do. He may have called me andtalked about certain aspects of the story forclarification purposes, but other than that, hewould send me a plot and I would go to work.

JA: What were your thoughts on the Sub-Mariner’s personality?SB: I enjoyed the character primarilybecause he was off-beat. Also, because he wasnot of this world. He was of the underseaworld — a rebellious type of character withenormous power. He could do everything, hecould fly. He had the one weakness: If he wasout of the water too long, he lost his strength.It was fun, too, in the sense that I didn’t haveto draw conventional backgrounds. I had todraw all these wonderful undersea scenes.

JA: Did you feel like it was a challenge tomake a regal man out of a guy just wearingswimming trunks?SB: No, it was very easy with him. I didn’thave any problem with that. I love the wayJohn did it. John made him an almost god-like figure.

JA: How did you feel about his arrogance?SB: That’s just one of the aspects that makeshim a fascinating character. And he had a lotto be arrogant about. [laughter]

JA: Why was your stay on Sub-Mariner soshort? I think you were only there for a yearor so.SB: I think they asked me to do something else.

JA: You left around the time you started ink-ing Conan. I wondered if maybe that was thereason.SB: Maybe. You probably know this betterthan I do, Jim. That was when Barry Smithwas doing Conan. I remember doing somework over Herb Trimpe on The Hulk.

JA: What did you think of Herb’s pencils?SB: I hate to say this, but Herb was not agood draughtsman. I think he would be thefirst one to admit that. But Herb was a won-derful storyteller. His work was very graph-ic, which is one of the reasons Stan lovedHerb’s storytelling. I think Herb wzs a verytalented guy. Drawing was not his strength,but storytelling was. I think he did a terrificjob on The Hulk, and I think I’m the onlyguy who drew The Hulk longer than Herb.He did it for about seven years, and I did itclose to ten, I think.

JA: If you got a penciler whose sensibilitieswere different than yours, how would youmeld yourself to be part of a team? JoeSinnott, like you said, when he inks someone,he always shows through. The same was trueof you, but to a lesser extent.

(below) They say thatclothes make the man,but in Namor’s case it’sall about the attitude.Here Prince Namor, theSub-Mariner, in all hisregality, prepares for aroyal wedding. This panelcomes from page 19 ofSub-Mariner #36. Inks byBernie Wrightson.ART COURTESY OF HERITAGEAUCTIONS

SUB-MARINER ™ AND ©2010MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

SB: It’s simply because of my approach. Ibelieve, having also been primarily a pencilerfor most of my career, it’s up to the inker tobe as true to the penciler as possible, unlessyou get the word from the powers that be. I’llgive you an example. When Barry Windsor-Smith started doing Conan, he was a kid witha tremendous amount of potential, but hisdrawing left a lot to be desired. I think hewould admit that he was not a particularlygood draughtsman yet. He was a wonderfulstoryteller, and I tried to be as true to him asI possibly could, because that’s my approachto inking: Be true to the penciler.

He sort of dropped off the scene for awhile, and when I saw the work he was doingyears later I said, “My God, this guy’simproved 500%!” He was terrific. But back

34

then Roy would call me and ask me to correcta face or an ear or some detail. In oneinstance, Conan was taking a swing at some-body and Roy was not pleased with it. It justdidn’t work, and he asked me to fix it. Inthose cases, yes, I would definitely do it, butonly when I was asked to. I’ve alwaysbelieved that if the client, whether it’s Marvelor DC or whoever, is happy with what thepenciler did, then it is up to the inker to betrue to the penciler.

That’s how I want guys to ink me. If I’mpenciling something and I’m doing finishedpenciling, I want them to be true to my pen-ciling. Unfortunately, a lot of times guys werenot. This is why I was so dissatisfied with somany of the inkers I had.

JA: You inked several issues of Conan, andyou got to see Barry improve during thattime, but it always seemed like he was moreof a designer than a draughtsman.SB: It took me an eternity to ink his stuff. Ifyou want to see tight pencils... they couldhave shot from the pencils. When I would fin-ish inking his work, I’d have pencil on myhand, my arm, and every other part of mybody. [laughter] He was amazingly tight.

JA: In 1970, after Neal Adams left X-Men,you penciled one issue which Sam Graingerinked. It turned out that was the last issue ofX-Men before they went to reprints, and thena later revitalization. Do you have any mem-ory of why you did that one story?SB: It was probably just a fill-in job theyasked me to do. Maybe nobody else wanted todo it. [laughter] I never asked. They’d just

(below) Detailed pencils,indeed! It’s no wonder ittook Sal a long time toink Barry Smith’s Conanpages. And that’s allbrushwork, too! On theleft is page 7 of Conan#9. On the right is apanel from the final pageof Conan #6.ART COURTESY OF HERITAGEAUCTIONS

CONAN ™ AND ©2010 CONANPROPERTIES INTERNATIONAL,LLC

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SB: That must have been when he and I weretalking about this possibility of a new book. Ithought it was fun. The whole premise of thebook is that these are very reluctant heroes.Sub-Mariner certainly didn’t want to join a

group. The Hulk didn’t want it; he just want-ed to be left alone. Dr. Strange was trying tohold them together with his leadership quali-ties in order for them to accomplish whatevergoals they had. It was a very interesting idea,and I enjoyed it.

JA: Team books are hard to do because youhave so many characters to move around. Youhad fewer characters to deal with here, andfrom the tone of your voice it sounds like youliked The Defenders more than The Avengers.SB: Yes, I did, primarily because I liked thecharacters better. My guy [the Hulk] was inthere. Sub-Mariner was kind of an off-speedcharacter, and I enjoyed doing him. The samewith Dr. Strange. That’s why I liked it betterthan The Avengers. There were also fewer ofthem, so it was not quite as difficult a book todo as The Avengers. The Avengers was a real-ly tough book.

JA: Do you remember the thinking behindintroducing the Valkyrie? Was it because theyfelt it was time to have a female member?SB: I think that was probably the case. “Let’sget a beautiful girl in there.”

JA: How much input did you have on plotswith Steve Englehart?SB: That’s something I never really got tooinvolved with, Jim. I left the writing and theplotting to the writers and the editorial staff.I can recall a few instances where I may havebeen consulted or asked a question. I don’tremember any specifics, though. It was some-thing I didn’t get involved in that much. I hadall I could handle with penciling the book.

(right) Valkyrie reaffirmsher decision to join theDefenders in this panelfrom Defenders #5 inkedby Frank McLaughlin.ART COURTESY OFWWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ART

DEFENDERS ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

(below) It may well havebeen decided that theDefenders book neededa woman’s touch, andwhy not? Valkyrie, thesubject of this ’70s commission piece, madean interesting additionto the non-team. ART COURTESY OFWWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ART

DEFENDERS ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

JA: With his strength he could have easilykilled somebody, but he never did.SB: No, because he was not bad. He did havethat much control, which is one of the thingsthey wrote into the story. They cleverlyworked out the circumstances so that henever killed anybody, because then the peoplethat misunderstood him would be justified infeeling the way they did.

JA: Did you have any sympathy for his alterego, Dr. Banner?SB: Of course. Who wouldn’t? Put yourself in asituation like that. He’s a very sympatheticcharacter. He’s trying desperately to undo thisdamage that was done to him. He’s spending hiswhole life trying to do that, and nothing seems towork. And I’m glad, too, because if it did work,then we wouldn’t have the character anymore.

JA: It was not long after you took over the arton Captain America that Steve Englehartstarted writing some really terrific stories.SB: I had a lot of fun working with Steve.The one that I really enjoyed was the story —and I think Roy had something to do with it —bringing the old Captain America [of the1950s] into the picture. That was just sobizarre and really off the wall, that I reallygot a big kick out of doing that. I kind ofhated what they did to the old Cap. I mean,they made him out as kind of a bigot, youknow? I don’t think the old Cap was a bigot,but there had to be a contrast between the twoCaptain Americas. Essentially, one of themhad to turn out to be a bad guy, and itworked. We got a lot of great comments aboutthat series. Everybody I’ve talked to at con-ventions brings that up.

Steve was great. I enjoyed working withhim tremendously. He would call me with theplots most of the time, and we’d kick themaround. I’d ask him questions like, “Whatare you doing here? What are you doingthere?” It was very much like the relationshipI had with Len Wein. The chemistry wasn’tquite the same, but I did work very well withSteve, and I hope he felt the same way,because we did produce some good stories.

As an aside, I was told at the time that forsome reason Cap did not sell well. It wasalways at the bottom of the barrel, no matterwho did it — whether Jack Kirby did it, or mybrother, or Gene Colan, John Romita... nomatter what. When Steve and I got on thebook — and I give Steve as much credit asanybody; he certainly deserves it, because hecame up with some great ideas, some greatstories — if I remember correctly, the bookhit #5 in sales. It really shot up the charts.That was very, very gratifying. Here again, itwas not me and it was not Steve; it was a com-bination of the two of us. In any successfulmarriage in comics the writer and the artisthave to gel, and if they do and the chemistryis right, the book is going to be a success.

JA: I thought it was some of Englehart’s bestwriting, and I think it was some of your mostinspired art, to be honest with you.SB: Well, it was because we enjoyed what wewere doing.

JA: The only thing I didn’t like was VinceColletta’s inks.

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(below) Falcon takes onthe retconned Cap andBucky of the 1950s.Somebody had to berunning around in thesuit if the real Cap wasfrozen in a block of iceduring that time, right?Too bad they were acouple of bigots. CaptainAmerica and The Falcon#154, page 3. Inks byJohn Verpoorten. BUCKY, CAPTAIN AMERICA, FALCON ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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Richard Nixon. Was that a conscious efforton Englehart’s part or your part to not revealwho he was?SB: I think that’s the way Steve wanted it,and I agreed with it 100%. I didn’t think thatwe had to be that obvious about it. You know,it’s fairly obvious anyway. Saying, “Oh, myGod! It’s Richard Nixon!” is about the onlything we didn’t do. [laughter]

JA: And that led into the Nomad storylinewhere Steve Rogers quits being CaptainAmerica. Did you have any feelings on thatpart of the storyline?SB: I just wish they hadn’t done it. [laughter]I kept wondering, “What is the point?” I did-n’t understand the purpose of it. “Okay, ifthis is what you guys want to do, let’s go ahead

and do it.” Frankly, I thought it was silly. Hewas Captain America, for God’s sake. Heknows that there’s good and evil. That wasthe part I objected to, painting RichardNixon as a totally irredeemable character,which was not the case. He was a politician.Look at the crap that goes on today in and outof the President’s office. It happens all thetime. Was Watergate bad? Yes, it was bad.Nixon was not directly responsible forWatergate, but he was definitely responsiblefor the cover-up. He made a huge, huge blun-der, and he paid for it as he should have paidfor it. But that was the part I objected to.

JA: You hit on something important, andthat’s the psychology of Captain America, acharacter who’s been through World War II.If anybody in the Marvel universe wouldhave his head together, I would imagine itwould be Captain America.SB: Absolutely. All of a sudden he’s so terri-bly disillusioned. Give me a break. This is sounreal. But it gave them a direction to go in.Whether it worked or not, personally speak-ing, I don’t think it did. It wasn’t CaptainAmerica anymore. You give him a differentcostume. Okay, fine, he’s not CaptainAmerica. Captain America and the costumeare one. If you change that it’s no longerCaptain America.

JA: Steve Rogers is almost a cipher at times,because that Captain America costume is sopowerful for the statement it makes.SB: Exactly. I wonder what they’re going todo with that in the movie. You know how theychange things in movies sometimes. You can’tchange that costume. It is so gaudy, yet it is sowonderful because it is so unique. As I said,the character and the costume are one. Youcan’t separate one from the other.

JA: You drew some Marvel Team-Ups star-ring Spider-Man and other characters. Howdid you feel about doing a book like that?SB: I was happy to be working on any book.That’s kind of a blanket statement. If Marvelcalled me up — whether it was JohnVerpoorten or Stan or Roy — and they said,“Sal, would you like to do such-and-such?” I’dalways say, “I would love to,” because it waswork. I’m a very pragmatic individual, and Ilike that regular paycheck coming in. And backthen, before the contractual thing came into

(below) As a direct ofthe result of the “SecretEmpire” storyline, a disillusioned Cap forsakes his name andcostume and becomesThe Nomad. Not a bad costume, but it’s justnot the same as theclassic, star-spangledlongjohns he’d madefamous. Captain Americaand The Falcon #180,page 11. Inks by VinceColletta. CAPTAIN AMERICA, NOMAD ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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vogue, you were a freelancer, and you earnedyour check by the amount of work that you did.That was your livelihood. And if you were oneof those fortunate guys, which I thank God con-stantly that I was, who had work all the time,that was just a joy. And that’s one of the rea-sons I consider myself a company man. It’s nota totally selfless thing. There’s a certain amountself-interest there, because I want to make surethat I’m working on a daily basis.

I’m kind of beating around the bush here.Did I enjoy doing that book? Yes, I did. Firstof all, because there was a new character todeal with every month, which made it kind ofinteresting. But primarily because it waswork. This is my feeling — I don’t know ifother people feel this way. I’ve heard guyssay, “Oh, I really want to work on this char-acter.” After a while, when you’ve done adozen super-heroes, they’re all pretty muchthe same. They’re all a bunch of guys in span-dex running around saving the world everymonth. The only difference was theIncredible Hulk. Spider-Man was a different

type of character, the Sub-Mariner was dif-ferent, Man-Thing... those were the charac-ters that I loved to do, because they weren’tcut from the same cookie cutter.

When you ask, “How did you feel aboutthis book? How did you feel about thatbook?” — pretty much the same way. It waswork. I enjoyed working. I loved doing what Iwas doing, and I sure enjoyed it when thatpaycheck came.

JA: You did some Marvel Two-in-One storieswith the Thing as the main character. TheThing, of course, has a different personalitythan Spider-Man.SB: And he’s a great character that I shouldhave mentioned, too. I love that character.He’s tough to draw, though. He’s very diffi-cult to draw. His personality is very difficultto capture.

JA: How did you handle the iconography ofthe character? Did you think of his skin asplates or rocks?

(above left) Spider-Manwas, indeed, a differenttype of character, as washis team-up partner inMarvel Team-Up #45,Killraven. Inks by MikeEsposito over Sal’sbreakdowns.ART COURTESY OFWWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ART

KILLRAVEN, SPIDER-MAN ™ AND©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS,INC.

(above right) The X-Men for all theirmutant angst were stillessentially your gardenvariety super-heroes.Marvel Team-Up Annual#1, page 1. Inks by MikeEsposito over Sal’sbreakdowns. ART COURTESY OF HERITAGEAUCTIONS

SPIDER-MAN, X-MEN ™ AND©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS,INC.

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Chapter FourThe Workhorse Hits His Stride

JA: Was there ever a case where an assign-ment came along that you liked better thanwhat you were doing, and you asked toswitch books?SB: No.

JA: I thought your work sometimes sufferedfrom doing breakdowns because of who didthe finishes. Would you be more forgivingwith someone finishing your breakdownsthan with someone inking your full pencils?SB: You had to be, because you’re not givingthem as much to work with. Under the cir-cumstances, it was a necessity. During thatperiod when I was doing pretty much nothingbut breakdowns for Marvel, it was becausethat’s what they asked me to do. They wanted

to get more work out of me, and the only wayI could give them more work was by doingbreakdowns. Everything was there except theblacks. I did not spot the blacks. I didn’t messaround with textures that much. I would do atexture or design on a shirt or tie.

JA: But you wouldn’t do rock textures.SB: No, no. Everything was done in line. Allthe details were there. There was nothingvague. The only thing the inker had to do wasspot his own blacks.

JA: How many pages of breakdowns couldyou do in a day versus full pencils?SB: On a good day I could breakdown four orfive pages. That was a comfortable day. With

(below) Breakdowns forWhat If? #44, featuringCaptain America versushis ’50s counterpart,which was inked byDave Simons.ART COURTESY OFWWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ART

CAPTAIN AMERICA, WATCHER™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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full pencils, probably two-and-a-half to threea day. Once I got to that five-year point I men-tioned earlier, I got comfortable enough withit that I gained speed, because I had a lot ofconfidence in what I was doing.

JA: On books you did breakdowns on, theydidn’t always put the best person over you.Do you feel that hurt your reputation at all?SB: I think so, but there again it was a neces-sity on both sides. I was doing what Marvelwas asking me to do, and I had no problemswith it because, monetarily, it was wonderful.I was making a lot of money. You know, I was-n’t terribly worried about my reputation sideof it, because I never was a big fan-favoriteanyway — so that side of it didn’t bother me.

After a while, I think I got the reputationof being a hack. That didn’t sit very well. Iheard that from a couple of different sources.But I said, “Well, I’m doing what the compa-ny is asking me to do. If I rebel against that,then maybe I’m no longer a company man.”

I don’t have that big an ego, Jim. That’sthe thing. Everybody has an ego, and I cer-tainly have one, but I think the key word hereis that I’m a very practical individual. I didwhat I thought was necessary. Then it got to apoint where that was no longer necessary,and, unfortunately, nobody told me about it.[laughs] I found out about it sort of sideways.I think it was during a conversation I had withBill Mantlo when I was working with him. Wewere talking about one thing and another, andhow this came up I don’t remember, but Billsaid, “You’re getting the reputation of a guywho just bangs the work out.” I said, “Well, Idon’t bang it out. I’m just doing what Marvelasks me to do.” He said, “Well, they’re notdoing that kind of thing now.”

Here is the classic case of the terrible lackof communication, and it was my faultbecause I didn’t go up there often enough.The reason for that impression of me was sim-ply because this was what was expected of mefor a long period of time. They were constant-ly asking me, “Sal, can you do this?” becauseI was one of the few guys they had who wasfast enough to do fill-in issues and my regularwork at the same time. I was being dependedupon to do this, and I was more than happy todo it. Obviously, the money was great, but Ialso felt like, “These people really need me.”I felt like I was a really important part of theoperation. I considered Marvel a client — myonly client. I was going to do everything with-in my power with whatever ability I had tokeep them as happy as possible.

Then, all of a sudden, Jim Shooter becomeseditor-in-chief, and the whole policy changes.He said, “We’re not going to do things thisway anymore. I want the very best qualitythat we can get. I want people to spend a lotmore time on the books. I don’t want guysturning out four and five books a month. Iwant guys to do one book a month, and to putall that they’ve got into that one book.” Therewas one problem with that: Nobody ever toldme about it.

When I found out about it, I called JimShooter immediately. I said, “Jim, this is whatI’ve heard. What’s going on?” and Jim very

(below) The openingsplash page of IncredibleHulk #219, with finishesby Ernie Chan over Sal’sbreakdowns. Chan wasan excellent artist in hisown right, but when inking others he tendedto overpower their work.ART COURTESY OF EELCO VELDHUIZEN

HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

(facing page) IncredibleHulk #269, page 7, written by Bill Mantlowith full art from Sal.HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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one of those guys who seems to be able to han-dle situations. I think I just called him, andsaid, “Ralph, this is just not working. I don’twant to do the book anymore.” And I reallyregret doing that, because I enjoyed TheHulk. It was one of the books that I had a lotof fun with.

I thought it was funny, too, it was shortlyafter that incident that I found out I had thereputation of being very difficult to workwith. And I had never, never had that prob-lem before. Or since, for that matter.Evidently there was some bad-mouthing goingon at the time.

JA: You rose above it, but it had to bother youto hear that.

SB: Of course it did. One of the problems withworking away from the establishment is com-munication. You may say things over thephone that can be construed in a completelydifferent way than what you intended. As Isaid before, I regret not paying more visits toMarvel so that they could know me better as aperson, rather than as just a voice on thephone. You can have people saying thingsabout you that you don’t even know about.Then you find out some time later, and howdo you defend yourself against something likethat? It’s very difficult, if not impossible, to do.

JA: It’s also a testament to your work,because for a lot of people, not being aroundthe office is career suicide.SB: Exactly. John, for instance, lived in LongIsland, and he didn’t go up to Marvel veryoften, but he sure went up a heck of a lot morethan I did. With me it was an all-day affair. Ihad to lose a whole day’s work, which I hateddoing because they kept me so busy. I had tocatch a train very early in the morning. I did-n’t want to fly up, because the trip from theairport to New York was horrible. You literal-ly made better time with the train, becauseyou got off right there in the heart of the city.You’d grab a cab, and be at the office in fiveor ten minutes. It was a two-hour ride fromthe airport into the city. It was a hassle forme. I did it at first, I made a few trips upthere, but then after a while I didn’t feel anygreat necessity. I spoke to people on thephone, and it worked fine for many years.But it was a lack of my knowing enough abouthuman relations, and this is where I kind oflost it a little bit. That’s why I should havegone up there more often, so they could get toknow me, the person, rather than just myvoice on the phone.

JA: You did some Conan covers and one story.SB: I think I did a few of the black-and-whitemagazine stories, too.

JA: I assume you referred to your brother’swork. We talked before about how John preferred Conan to super-heroes. Did youhave the same feelings?SB: Absolutely. I loved the character. Conanwas a great character. And sword-and-sorcery just reeks of fun for the illustrator. It was so much fun. It really whetted the creative juices.

(facing page) A pagefrom one of Sal’s storiesfor Savage Sword ofConan.ART COURTESY OF RAIMONFONSECA

CONAN ™ AND ©2010 CONANPROPERTIES INTERNATIONAL,LLC

(above) Sal obviouslyhad fun drawing theHulk. It shows in everypage. Incredible Hulk#245, page 22.ART COURTESY OF EELCO VELDHUIZEN

HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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JA: Speaking of sorcery, you did a little Dr.Strange, too, outside of The Defenders. I waswondering how you felt about that character.SB: I thought Dr. Strange was one of thosecharacters that was quite unique. Anything alittle off-beat, a little off the wall, was what Ienjoyed doing. Dr. Strange was definitely inthat category.

JA: You had a long run on SpectacularSpider-Man in the 1980s to early ’90s.Considering the status of that character, didyou feel an added responsibility that you mightnot have felt on a fill-in title or lesser title?SB: I approached every book the same way. Itried to give it my best under whatever cir-cumstances I was working. I never got a bookand thought, “Ah, this is an unimportantbook. I’ll just bang this out,” or, “This is areally important character, so I’ll really do mybest.” I tried to be even-handed with every-thing that I got, because I wanted to maintainwhatever success I had achieved at Marvel.

JA: When Steve Ditko drew Spider-Man, heput him in strange poses. He made him morespider-like.SB: Nobody draws like Steve Ditko. He hadsuch a unique body language he’d give to hischaracters. Nobody could capture that.

I thought of Spider-Man as a spider.That’s all you can do. [laughs] I did thingsmyself in my studio trying to capture certainpositions. How can you make a human bodylook like a spider? I would literally try toassume those positions myself, and thatwould give me a basis from which to work.With him and the Hulk especially, when I hadthem do their thing — when I had Spideyswinging through the city, when I had theHulk leaping from one place to another — Ialways tried to exaggerate what they weredoing. Because of the nature of those charac-ters — especially Spider-Man — Stan, as Irecall, wanted him to be off the wall and off-beat. He loved that Ditko approach to thecharacter. Of course, when John Romita tookit over, being such a good draughtsman, hegave it a completely different flavor.

I tried to do my own thing with the char-acter, especially when I started theSpectacular Spider-Man series. That wassomething I got excited about, because I hadnever been asked to launch a new seriesbefore. And, of course, launching a Spider-Man book is kind of a feather in your cap, soI got really excited about that. I think I didthe first 20 or 25 issues. I gave it my all.

JA: The initial idea of that series was to focusa little more on Peter Parker, and the sup-porting characters than Amazing Spider-Mandid, but it didn’t seem like they worried aboutthat too much once they got into the series.SB: I never really got that feeling, either. Tome, it just turned into another Spider-Manbook, which was fine. I had no problems withthat. If you don’t want the book to fail, youhave to concentrate on the character. Theydon’t buy the book for Aunt May and MaryJane. They buy the book for Spider-Man.That’s where you have to go.

Witness the success of the character in themovies. They’re treating the movies, as far asI’m concerned, exactly the way the characterwas treated in the comic books. It’s the singu-lar most successful character in the comicbook industry, as far as I know. The only onethat rivals it may be Batman. X-Men at onetime was the number one bestselling book,but that was a group of characters. ButSpider-Man sold phenomenally well, and thesupporting cast had a lot to do with it. Therewas a realism about that series that wasunique in the comic book industry.

(facing page) Spideydoesn’t get much morespidery-looking than inthis illustration for theSpider-Man: Round Robintrade paperback collection.SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

(above) It appears Salgot the feel for drawingSpider-Man pretty quickly, as evidenced bythis panel from PeterParker, the SpectacularSpider-Man #3. Inks byMike Esposito.ART COURTESY OF HERITAGEAUCTIONS

SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

money in it. It just wasn’t worth it on a mon-etary basis to do it permanently. I was happyto do it as a fill-in anytime, as a favor to Stan.

JA: Between the ’70s up until 1996 whenMarvel went bankrupt, how often did you goto conventions?SB: Not a whole lot. There was a young man,a teenager at the time, that I met who was abig comic book fan, and I got kind of friendlywith him and his parents. His name was GaryGroth. The first convention I went to was onehe put together. I wanted to help him out,because it was his first venture. I think he wasonly about 16 or 17 years old at the time. Hemight have been younger. His mom and dadhelped him out, too.

I did not do a lot of shows. John and Iwould have conversations about this. Afterdoing a few conventions here and there, wedecided, “This is a money-making operationfor the people who run these conventions.This is not a charity. They don’t do it for thelove of the industry or the love of the fans.They do it to make money.” Every conventionthat I’ve ever been to has been like that.

JA: That’s not always true, but more oftenthan not, yes. I used to put on conventions,and as long as we broke even we were happy.SB: If there’s somebody out there who’s a littlemore altruistic, I don’t think I’ve ever come incontact with them. I think you will admit thatSan Diego doesn’t do it to be altruistic. SanDiego does it because it’s a big business.

JA: I’ve known a couple of exceptions, but forthe most part you’re right about that.

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(below) Sal not onlybecame friendly with ateenaged Gary Grothand his family, but healso provided this coverillustration of Dr. Strangeas well as a short interview for a 1969issue of Groth’s FantasticFanzine.ART COURTESY OF JEFF BELL

DR. STRANGE ™ AND ©2010MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

(right) Larry King makesan appearance in thisSeptember 1, 1996Spider-Man Sunday news-paper strip. Inks by JoeSinnott.ART COURTESY OF HERITAGEAUCTIONS

SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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SB: There are exceptions to every rule.Anyway, John and I decided that we were notgoing to do these things for nothing.Whenever I talk to people they say, “You canmake money by charging for sketches.” I justtell them, “Look, I’m not going to charge anine-year-old kid $25 for a drawing. I wouldrather charge you a fee, and then you canadvertise the fact that Sal Buscema is going tobe there doing free head sketches of any char-acter that they want.” A lot of them boughtthat. They thought that was a great idea.There were also a lot of times when peoplewould call me about a convention, and assoon as I said, “This is my fee,” there wouldbe this pause, and then they would say, “Oh,we don’t pay. We only cover your expenses.”“Sorry, I don’t work for nothing, and I con-sider this work. If I’m going to work for youfor nothing, I’d just as soon stay home, anddo my own work and make money.”

When you’re talking about the bigger con-ventions — New York, Philadelphia, whatev-er — it’s a money-making operation. But Ithink it’s because of my policy that I have notbeen invited to that many conventions.

JA: You’re not the only person who’s chargedfor an appearance.SB: No, I’m sure I’m not. As a matter of fact,the prices I charged were probably a lot morereasonable than most of these guys.

JA: Do you enjoy conventions?SB: I enjoy meeting the fans if I’m at a tablejust signing autographs and doing quick headsketches and that type of thing. I get a kickout of that. I’m not too crazy about the panels, though. John and I only did one con-vention together, and that was years ago inNew York. We were together for maybe anhour at a table doing sketches, then he had togo his way, and I had to go mine.

But the simple fact of the matter is that it’s abusiness. It kind of ticked me off when peoplewould ask me to come to their convention andI’d tell them, “My fee is such and such,” andthen they’d say, “Well, we don’t pay.” “Wait aminute. You want me there, you want my broth-er there, you want a whole bunch of other peo-ple there, because we are the people that aregoing to be drawing fans into your convention,and hopefully making you a potful of money,and yet you don’t want to pay for the work thatwe’re going to be doing.” It just annoyed me.

On the other side — I want to be fair aboutthis — a lot of times people would call and askme to do a convention. I’d say, “Is it a week-end, a day, or what?” They’d tell me, I’d say,“Okay, my fee is this in addition to expenses,”and they’d say, “Okay, that’s fine.” Theywouldn’t even bat an eye, and I appreciatedthat because they handled it in a very profes-sional manner. I’m not sure about this, butJohn and I may have been the first ones to dothis. I can’t think of anyone else that wascharging before us. John said, “You knowwhat’s going to happen. Nobody’s going toinvite us to conventions.” I said, “Well, that’sokay, because I can think of other things thatI’d rather do on a weekend.”

I was invited to Barcelona, Spain, to do aconvention there. It’s a huge convention.Believe it or not, it actually dwarfs the one inSan Diego. I believe they told me that they get90,000 people there. It’s held in an old trainstation that is no longer in service, and theyused the entire space. It was mammoth. I gotto meet the legendary Will Eisner and his wifethere. What a delightful man he was, and hiswife was just a sweetheart. My wife and I just

(above) A 1994 conven-tion head sketch of yourfriendly, neighborhoodSpider-Man.ART COURTESY OF HERITAGEAUCTIONS

SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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Chapter FiveA New Start with a Different Company

JA: You were doing a lot of inking for Marvelup to the time they went bankrupt. A lot ofeditors lost their jobs. A lot of books were cut.SB: In the space of two or three months,Marvel got rid of two or three hundred peo-ple. It was a bloodbath. I lost all of my work.

JA: What were your thoughts on the companygoing public?SB: I thought it was a good sign. I had no ideathat the company was going to get into anykind of financial trouble. I’m a capitalistthrough and through, and I thought it was agood idea. I even floated the idea of buyingsome stock. I’m glad I didn’t. [laughter]

JA: How did you get the news in ’96?SB: I knew what was happening. I anticipatedit. I was only doing Spectacular Spider-Manat the time, and I got a call from RalphMacchio telling me that all the sales were downand they were going to have to make changes.I said, “That means I’m not doing the bookanymore,” and he said, “Right.” I said, “Am Idoing anything else?” He said, “ Well, I don’thave anything for you, Sal. I don’t knowabout any of the other editors.” I said,“Essentially, the answer is no.” It was a niceconversation, because Ralph and I always gotalong well, but that was the end of it.

I was under contract to Marvel at the time,and the contract stated that as long as I wasunder contract I couldn’t work for anybodyelse. So I had to call Bob Harras, who hadrecently taken over as editor-in-chief, and tellhim I was terminating my contract. The con-tract was almost silly, because either partycould terminate it any time they wanted to. Inthis case, I terminated it because I had to earna living, and to do that I had to get work fromother people. He said, “Fine, Sal. We hopethings will turn around. We’ll be in touch.”And then I went to DC, and happily theystarted giving me work.

This is very important. I was near the endof my career. I was 60 years old, so I wasn’tfar from retirement. It bugged me a little bit,because I’m a guy who likes to plan way in

advance. I’m always looking five or ten yearsdown the road, and I had plans for essential-ly doing what I’m doing now. My thoughtswere that I would like to go to issue #350 onSpectacular Spider-Man and that would havebeen right around the time I could retire.Then all I wanted to do was ink one book amonth — that’s all — just to maintain a pres-ence in the industry, and to do something thatI really enjoyed doing. Well, that’s essentially

(below) Sal’s run onSpectacular Spider-Manended earlier than hewould have preferred,with issue #238. Inks byJohn Stanisci over Sal’sbreakdowns.ART COURTESY OF HERITAGEAUCTIONS

DRAGON MAN, SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

what’s happened to me now, so in that respectI have been very, very blessed. But the bigthing — and this is the point I want to make— there were so many guys with families theyneeded to support, and these were the peopleI really felt for. My career was essentiallybehind me. I had to squeeze out a few moreyears the best that I could, but there were somany guys in their 30s and 40s that still hadyears to work, and all of a sudden the wholeindustry went to pot, and all these peoplewere out of work. It was just a terrible, terri-ble time. And I’m not saying this to soundnoble or anything like that. Believe me, I wasvery, very upset. I’d been working for Marvelfor over 30 years, and here I was just shovedaside. But it happened to so many other peo-ple, and they were the ones I really felt for.

JA: Who was your first contact at DC?SB: Mike Carlin. The first project they put meon was a doozy. It just blew me away that theywould trust me with it. It was a double-sizedissue with Batman. And they asked me whatwriter I would like to work with! I had readsome stuff that Chuck Dixon did. He wroteThe Punisher when John Romita, Jr. wasdrawing it, and that was just a fantastic book.When they asked me who I’d like to workwith, I immediately said I’d love to work withChuck Dixon. The next thing I know, I’m get-ting a plot for Detective Annual #10.

JA: How closely did you work with Chuck?SB: It was a good story. It had to do with for-eign intrigue and a South American dictator,and I just had a ball with it. But I really did-n’t talk with Chuck. I got the plot in the mail,and I dealt with the editor, I sent the pages in,and that was that.

JA: Did you work from a plot or a full script?SB: I’m pretty sure I worked from a plot. I’vedone a couple of very small penciling jobs for Marvel in the last three or four years —just two or three pages where they wanted an“old-fashioned” style, and they asked me todo it, which really makes me laugh. [laugh-ter] They were full-script, and I hated everyminute of it. I despised it.

It was so refreshing when Stan came upwith the new concept of having the artistswork from plots. It was revolutionary, and Ithink it was responsible, more than anythingelse, for the creative explosion in comic

books. I cannot understand why they’ve goneback to full scripts.

JA: How did you feel about drawing Batman?SB: It was great! I was just flipping out whenthey asked me to do Batman, because I lovethe character. And the plot that Chuck cameup with was just wonderful. I really had a lotof fun working on that. It was great workingwith the Batman team, too. They were abunch of nice guys.

JA: How was the money?SB: I was getting paid exactly the same as I hadbeen at Marvel. Scott Peterson, the Batmangroup editor, and his two associate editorstook me out to lunch, and the reception that I got from them was just wonderful. It was so gratifying. They seemed really happy tohave me. Unfortunately, it didn’t last too long,because the whole industry was falling apart.

But it reenergized me. It was a whole newexperience, and I took advantage of the situ-ation in the sense that I did what I did not dowhen I was with Marvel. I went up there morefrequently. Not that much, because I onlyworked for DC for two or three years, but Imade several trips up there to let them knowthat I was alive and breathing. The short timethat I worked for them was great. I enjoyed itthoroughly, and they treated me superbly. Ican’t say enough about it.

JA: For the most part, you just wanted toink at this point. You didn’t want to pencilanymore.

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(above) A moodyBatman in these panelsfrom a ten-page storyfor Batman 80-Page Giant#2. Sal did the full artfor this story, a rarityduring his time at DC.ART COURTESY OF HERITAGEAUCTIONS

BATMAN, ROBIN ™ AND ©2010DC COMICS.

(facing page) A full-pagesplash from Sal’s first jobfor DC: Detective Annual#10. Inks by one of Sal’sfavorite collaborators,Klaus Janson.BATMAN ™ AND ©2010 DCCOMICS.

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(right) Very often whileat DC, Sal was called into ink new pencilers. Hehandled many differentstyles, and it was Sal’sversatility that made himideal for such situations.In Batman/Scarecrow 3-D,Sal inked Carl Critchlow,a British artist with asomewhat cartoonystyle who had workedfor 2000 AD, but onlydid a handful of jobs forDC in the late ’90s.BATMAN, ROBIN, SCARECROW™ AND ©2010 DC COMICS

(below) A page from Batman Chronicles #16’sback-up story, “Harold,” penciled by Chris Renaud,who after working in comics from 1996-2000 left togo into the field of animation.HAROLD ™ AND ©2010 DC COMICS

(above) The one title Sal worked on with anyconsistency for DC was The Creeper. There heinked Shawn Martinbrough’s high-contrast pencilsfor the entirity of The Creeper’s twelve-issue run.THE CREEPER ™ AND ©2010 DC COMICS

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But with Klaus, I couldn’t wait to get thepages, because I enjoyed inking him so much.It was an absolute blast. I wanted to work onhis pencils forever.

He’s a master black-and-white artist.Black-and-white art is more difficult to dothan color. He does things that are just bril-liant. In that respect, it was so much fun justto see his pages, because his pencils werepretty tight. He has a very stylized flavor tohis drawing. It was almost to the point that Icould say, “Gee, I wish I penciled like this.” Itwas not work, believe me. To use the oldcliché, it was a labor of love.

JA: Of the DC characters you worked on,and you worked on a fair amount, which wasyour favorite?SB: I would have to say Batman. Batman is avery unique character. He’s very dark andforeboding — not quite over the line.

JA: You penciled Superman: The Man ofSteel, too. Did you think of Superman assomething special, or was he just anothersuper-hero to you?SB: Who ever knew that I’d be doingSuperman one day? In that sense there was alittle bit of excitement there, but once you getinto it, it’s just another job.

JA: Why did you leave DC after only threeyears?SB: Business started slowing down forthem, too. The sales were not good. TheBatman editors I had been working with —Scott Peterson and Jordan Gorfinkel andthe rest — all left at different times. Theyhad kept me constantly busy, but I guess theeditors that took over decided that they did-n’t want my services any more. I officiallyretired when I turned 64. I’m still working,though.

JA: You’ve been working on Spider-Girl forquite some time.SB: And I hope we’re on it for quite sometime to come, too. I have a fantastic relation-ship with Ron Frenz. Ron is a friend, andTom DeFalco is a friend.

Tom is not only a terrific writer, he’s also adelightful guy. We had a great working rela-tionship, and we still do, although we’re notin contact as much as we were when he waswriting Spectacular Spider-Man for me. I’m

just doing the inking on Spider-Girl. I don’tknow anybody who knows more about thisbusiness than he does. His storytelling abilityis outstanding. This is a guy who really knowshow to write. He could probably teach writ-ing; he knows it that well. Ron and I talkabout this a lot.

Now, Ron is one of the guys who doescontribute an awful lot to plotting and ideasand so on. And Ron has enormous respectfor Tom’s ability and talent, simply becausethe guy just knows what he’s doing. Heknows how to tell a story. When I workedwith Tom on Spectacular Spider-Man, itwas just as smooth as silk. Tom has a talentfor stimulating you and really bringing thebest out of you.

(above) Before theirlongstanding pairing onSpider-Girl for Marvel, Salinked Ron Frenz onSuperman: The Man ofSteel #94.SUPERMAN ™ AND ©2010 DCCOMICS.

(facing page) One of themany artists Sal inkedduring his brief tenure atDC was legendaryBatman artist Jim Aparo.Batman #558, page 18.ART COURTESY OF SPENCERBECK

BATMAN ™ AND ©2010 DCCOMICS.

(below) Cap certainlylooks heroic in thesepanels from CaptainAmerica #153. Inks by JimMooney.ART COURTESY OF AL BIGLEY

CAPTAIN AMERICA ™ AND©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS,INC.

Chapter SixThe Craft of Creating Comic Book Art

JA: We’ve talked some about the craft of cre-ating comics, but let’s really focus on thatnow. Let’s start with your philosophy regard-ing working with writers.SB: The way I enjoyed working was gettingthe plot from the writer. I wasn’t the type ofpenciler that would contribute a lot. I alwaysfelt that my job was to interpret what they putin their plot and turn that into 22 pages of pic-torial storytelling. To me, that was difficultenough.

And the other side of it is I can’t recall any-body ever calling me up and saying, “Youknow, Sal, this really doesn’t work. You’ve gotto redo this.” I’m not throwing accolades atmyself, I’m just simply stating a fact. One ofthe things I heard from so many people wasthat the reason they enjoyed working with mewas because I told the story so well pictorially.My philosophy was to try to give the writerwhat he wants, so that when he writes his dia-logue it’s going to be as easy for him as it canbe. That’s what I always worked towards. Sothe personal relationships between me and thewriters frankly did not exist in many cases. Iwould do a book, and then I’d get the plot forthe next one and I’d sit down and think aboutit, figure it out, and execute it. Then I’d sendthe pages in and get the next plot. That’s theway it worked. It was almost machine-like.

JA: As far as the writers you worked with,who was the most helpful to you in terms ofthe direction they gave you in the scripts?SB: Len Wein, Tom DeFalco, MarcDeMatteis... guys I worked with for a periodof time. So many of the writers I only did afew books with. It’s really hard to get a han-dle on that. But the guys I mentioned werejust consummate professionals, and that inand of itself was a great help to me. Theymade my job easy.

JA: Moving on to penciling, were you everasked to redraw panels?SB: Not a whole lot, but, yes, I was. As a mat-ter of fact, one of the first things I ever did forMarvel, believe it or not, was redraw a couple

of panels that my brother did. [laughter] Itwas on a Captain America book, and it wassimply because Stan wasn’t happy with thestorytelling. Not the drawing, obviously,because the drawing was fantastic. I had goneto the office for some reason and Sol Brodskyasked me, “Sal, we need this panel changed.Can you do this and this?” And I said, “I’d behappy to.” As a matter of fact, I was thrilledto, because it was literally the first pencilingwork that I did for Marvel. It was kind ofgratifying that they asked me to change some-thing that John did.

JA: When you were drawing super-heroes,how conscious were you of proportion?SB: You had to be conscious of it, becauseyou’re drawing heroic people. The propor-tions have to be there. It’s very difficult tomake somebody look heroic if they’re dumpy-looking. This is something that Stan required.He wanted all of the super-heroes and hero-ines to be very heroic-looking, and that’s theway you do it. They’ve got to be eight, nineheads tall.

It was the same with the villains, becausethey have to look like a match for the super-heroes. The philosophy, at least when I firststarted with Marvel, was that the heroesalways had to look like the underdogs. Therealways had to be the sense that, “Oh, mygosh, he’s in trouble now!” You wanted tomake the super-villains look like formidable

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opponents, so you had to give them the sameproportions. Of course, it depended on who itwas, but the reader had to see that the villainposed a real challenge to the super-hero.

If you’re drawing Loki, he’s a god. Eventhough he’s an evil god, you have to give himthat persona, that aura. He has to look majes-tic. It all depends on what the super-villain isall about and what the hero is all about.Spider-Man is kind of a departure from that,because Spider-Man is a teen-aged kid. Atleast, that’s the way he started. He’s smallish.He’s a departure, and that may be one of thethings that made Spider-Man become thenumber one super-hero in the comic bookuniverse. He was smaller, but look at what hewas capable of.

The Vulture was creepy-looking and notheroic-looking at all. The very nature of a

vulture, it’s probably the ugliest bird outthere. You had to capture that persona in thecharacter. And the same thing, in a differentway, for Doctor Octopus. Where the Vulturecould fly, Doc Ock had those mechanicalarms. His stature was anything but heroic. Hewas a short, plump professor type. This is thechallenge that every comic-book artist has.He has to be convincing to the audience withwhomever he happens to be drawing, and todo that he has to be versatile.

I did a podcast interview recently, and Iwas bowled over that anybody would evenwant to bother with this, but it was celebrat-ing my fortieth year in the industry. They hadsome surprise guests, and one of them wasStan, which absolutely blew me out of thewater. I had no idea that he was going to be onthe show, and I was deeply honored because,

In the page fromSpectacular Spider-Man#163 (facing page), youcan see how Sal drawsSpidey as slender andwiry. And villains don’tcome much creepierthan Hobgoblin andCarrion. The panel fromSpectacular Spider-Man#210 shows Spidey’srogues as terrifying, andthe reactions of their victims sells that idea. Fullart by Sal.ART COURTESY OFWWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ART

ALL CHARACTERS ™ AND ©2010MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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Art Gallery

(above) We begin the gallery with images of Sal’s favorite character: The Hulk. And what better place to start than with this illustration donefor Mighty Marvel Calendar for 1975 — obviously, this was December’s image. As it happens, December 1975 was the cover date for Sal’s firstissue as penciler of Incredible Hulk, and the start of his nearly ten-year run.ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE AUCTIONS

HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

(facing page) A commission illustration of Ol’ Greenskin.HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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Cover art for Incredible Hulk Annual #14, cover dated December 1985. Inks by John Byrne, who also wrote the issue.ART COURTESY OF EELCO VELDHUIZEN

HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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Like many other comic book artists, Sal would occassionally sketch on the back of whatever board he happened to be working on — either towork out a problem or simply to take a break and have a little fun drawing something different. The drawings on these two pages come fromthe backs of two such boards.HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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From left to right: Ron Frenz, Sal Buscema, and Tom DeFalco — the creative team behind Spider-Girl. This photo was taken at the 2008Pittsburgh Comicon.

A recent photo of Salinking at his drawingboard.

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Without question, one of Sal’s most memorable covers. Avengers #89, cover dated June 1971. COURTESY OF SAM NEWKIRK

AVENGERS, CAPTAIN MARVEL ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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Sal drew several covers for Marvel’s many reprint titles of the '70s, which meant he was able to show his interpretation of some of the keymoments from Marvel’s history, including the coming of Galactus. Marvel’s Greatest Comics #36, cover dated July 1972.COURTESY OF SAM NEWKIRK

FANTASTIC FOUR, GALACTUS ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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Iron Man #34, cover dated February 1971.ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE AUCTIONS

IRON MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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A page from “The Night Before X-Mas,” part of 1994’s Marvel Holiday Special.X-MEN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

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(facing page) Sal has inked the work of Ron Frenz more than any other artist, thanks in large part to their longtime collaboration on the various incarnations of Spider-Girl. Spider-Girl #79, page 17, cover dated December 2004. Pencils by Ron Frenz.ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE AUCTIONS

QUEEN OF THE GOBLINS, SPIDER-GIRL ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

(above) Artwork done for Universal’s Islands of Adventure themepark’s Marvel Super Hero Island, which opened in 1999. These and threeother pieces are on display in the park as large, full-color standees. Inks by Tim Townsend.ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE AUCTIONS

ALL CHARACTERS ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

SALBUSCEMA:

Comics’ Fast &Furious Artist

In 1968, Sal Buscema joined the ranksof Marvel Comics and quickly becameone of their most recognizable anddependable artists. Following in thefootsteps of his big brother JohnBuscema, Sal quickly came into hisown, and penciled some of Marvel’smost memorable storylines, such asthe original Avengers/Defenders war,as well as “The Secret Empire Saga”and the Nomad arc in the pages ofCaptain America. He also had a ten-year run on the Hulk and drew 100 consecutive issues of Spectacular Spider-Man,making him one of the few definitive artists of the Bronze Age. Sal Buscema: Comics’Fast & Furious Artist, by Alter Ego’s Jim Amash with Modern Masters’ Eric Nolen-Weathington, explores the life and career of this true legend of the comics industry,through an exhaustive interview with the artist, complete with extensive examples ofhis art, including a deluxe color section, and a gallery of work from Sal’s personal files.Fans love the fast and furious style of Sal Buscema, and this first-ever career-spanningbook is guaranteed to please!

(176-page trade paperback with color) $26.95(192-page HARDCOVER with color & 16 bonus color pages) $46.95 • (Digital Edition) $10.95

http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=793

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