ROYAL COMMISSION INTO INSTITUTIONAL RESPONSES TO … · EXHIBIT #18.0032 STATEMENT OF CHRISTIAN PETERSON DATED 03/10/2014 MR BECKETT: Q. Pastor Peterson, I understand that you took

.16/10/2014 (93)

Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation

9854

ROYAL COMMISSION INTO INSTITUTIONALRESPONSES TO CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE

Public Hearing - Case Study 18(Day 93)

Level 17, Governor Macquarie TowerFarrer Place, Sydney

On Thursday, 16 October 2014 at 10.25am

BeforeThe Presiding Member: Justice Jennifer Ann CoateCommissioner: Mr Robert Atkinson AO APM

Counsel Assisting: Mr Simeon Beckett

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) C J PETERSON (Mr Beckett)


9855

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Thank you Mr Beckett, we're ready toresume Case Study 18.

MR BECKETT: Thank you, your Honour. I call ChristianJoseph Peterson.

<CHRISTIAN JOSEPH PETERSON, sworn: [10.26am]

<EXAMINATION BY MR BECKETT:

MR BECKETT: Q. Pastor, do you still have credentialswith the Assemblies of God?A. I do have credentials with the Assemblies of God.

Q. If you could state your full name for the RoyalCommission?A. Christian Joseph Peterson.

Q. You've provided your address to the Royal Commission?A. Yes.

Q. You've also provided a statement dated 3 October 2014to the Royal Commission?A. Yes.

Q. Is that statement true and correct to the best of yourknowledge?A. Yes, it is. I would like to make an adjustment maybeto two or three - or clarification, two or three points.

Q. Thank you. It will come up on the screen shortly.Which parts did you wish to change?A. Item 4 I think is needing a clarification on date. Ihave put "2006". It is obviously "2007".

Q. Any other amendments to your statement?A. Item 22, I've answered it very generally and it shouldbe clarified that I rang the district superintendent AshleyGoode, not the general statement I think that says,"I believe the district branch was informed".

Q. I might just get you to redirect those microphones alittle closer to you. Thank you.A. And so, I notified the district branch personally, Irang, I made a phone call.

Q. And you spoke to Pastor Goode?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9856

A. Ashley Goode, who was the district superintendent.

Q. And that's G-O-O-D-E, isn't it?A. Yes, G-O-O-D-E.

Q. Any other changes you wish to make to your statement?A. Item 24, it's not accurate - wasn't intentional, but Ihad open heart surgery and I was recoveringin February 2013 when a communication came through that didinclude some of the details concerning the settlement ofthe case. I think in item 24 I said, "I wasn't involved",which is true, I wasn't involved, and I have no knowledgeof the details. I didn't have knowledge, but in reviewingthings with my solicitor, I discovered that there was - anitem had been sent to me, but I was in recovery from heartsurgery in those two, three, four months.

Q. When you say "item", was that advice from the lawyersor from the insurer?A. No, I stumbled - I was looking for as much informationas I could in the history of my emails and I came acrossthat information. So, I didn't know I had it, but I did,so that in a sense was an inaccurate statement but was notintentional, I didn't know I had the information, but Idid. Now I do, I've read it so I'm now just making thatcorrection.

Q. Thank you. I tender the statement?

MR BECKETT: 18.0032.

EXHIBIT #18.0032 STATEMENT OF CHRISTIAN PETERSON DATED03/10/2014

MR BECKETT: Q. Pastor Peterson, I understand that youtook over as the pastor of the Sunshine Coast Churchin December or January 2006.A. January 2006.

Q. Was there a period of crossover between you andPastor Lehmann?A. About six months.

Q. So you'll probably notice yesterday that we werereferring to that church by the term "Sunshine CoastChurch". Do you understand that?A. Yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9857

Q. The reason for doing that is so as not to identify[ALA] in these proceedings, and also the victim of theabuse is being described as "[ALA]" and similarly hisparents also have pseudonyms. Do you understand that?A. Yes, I do.

Q. There is a list of pseudonyms in front of you in caseyou need to refer to it.A. Thank you.

Q. I'll just have those microphones adjusted becauseyou're coming across quite softly. Thank you. Youcommenced in January 2006, and how long were you the pastorat the Sunshine Coast Church for, please?A. Until December 2012.

Q. During that period of six years at the Sunshine CoastChurch did you adopt specific policies with respect tochild abuse that applied to the church?A. Yes, I think there is a document that's been submittedthat had been in preparation prior to my taking theresponsibility.

Q. Let me show you a document, it's exhibit 18-18. I'llhave a hard copy shown to you.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Is it 18 or 28?

MR BECKETT: I thought it was 28 in fact, but I did say"18". I'll just have the exhibit list checked. It's "28",thank you, your Honour is perfectly correct. I think HerHonour and Commissioner Atkinson already have copies.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: We do, thank you.

MR BECKETT: Q. You will see that's a document entitled,"Child Abuse", and I understand that this was a part ofsomething called a manual and policy which related tochildren?A. That's correct.

Q. This was a part of that manual?A. Correct.

Q. And that, if I just go to the contents page of theentire manual, it includes philosophy, values, rosters,

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9858

leader profile and description, daily procedures andformats, discipline policy, forms, child abuse and otherinformation. Is that correct?A. It is correct, and that was in preparation prior to mycoming but when I did take the pastor, it was brought tofruition and was adopted for that calendar year.

Q. The document I've just shown you, exhibit 18-28, isjust the child abuse portion of that policy; is that right?A. That's right, I understand.

Q. That's the portion I wish to ask you about. When youtook over in January 2006 who was preparing that document?A. There was two ladies, a Mrs Hatten and a Amanda Lewwere the two people preparing that documentation and hadbeen.

Q. Were they staff at the church?A. No, they weren't staff, they were voluntary leaders ofthat children's ministry.

Q. Are you aware of whether they based this particularmanual upon some other material?A. Yes. Obviously, there was documents being circulated,I think Kids R Us was a children's ministry which is a cutand paste fairly completely out of their child abusedocument, and it was part of an overall training manual forall of our children's workers.

Q. Was that material that was provided by the stateexecutive of the Assemblies of God?A. I think Kids R Us was a branch ministry somewherewithin the Assemblies of God movement. I wasn'tresponsible for that, that was being prepared.

Q. You don't have a copy of that particular document, doyou?A. I don't, I only have the cut and paste that's here.

Q. We've received some information of a document calledKids R Us from Victoria which includes a number of childprotection policies. Do you think that is possibly thedocument?A. That probably is the source, and what I understood, itwas an evolving document in the sense that there waschanges being made, but this was put together and used inmy tenure there as the training document for our children's

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9859

workers.

Q. Those two people, those two women who assisted withthe preparation of this particular document, were theyqualified in any particular way with respect to childprotection matters?A. No, probably not. One was a school teacher intraining or might just have finished her training as aschool teacher, and another one was a mother who had workedreally in - a mother of four or five children and in thatsense had the competencies but perhaps not the professionalbackground, but I think they were very thorough in thepreparation of that document.

Q. Was this document provided, to your knowledge, to thestate executive of the Assemblies of God for their inputinto it?A. No, it wouldn't have been.

Q. Do I take it that the draft was prepared and a copygiven to you for your approval?A. It was, but I don't know whether it was formallytabled in our executive management; it would have beenlooked at at the pastoral leadership level, and that therewas two tiers of operation, one is a businessadministration and one is a pastoral administration. Sothe pastoral team would have looked at that.

Q. Was the document approved at the board level of thechurch?A. That I can't vouch for.

Q. Is this the document that applied throughout yourtenure as the pastor at the Sunshine Coast Church?A. Yes, although it may have had some, in some areas notjust in child abuse, but in the overall, there might havebeen some modifications as programs shifted or as we gotbetter focus on some areas.

Q. We've been provided with a document where the cover,at least to this part of the children's manual, says it wascreated on 19 January 2006. Are you aware of any changesthat were made between 2006 and 2012 to this part of themanual?A. I don't have any recall of that. I think that wasseen to be adequate as best we understood.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9860

Q. During that six year period was there ever an occasionwhere the national, the state members of the Assemblies ofGod, later the Australian Christian Churches, came andreviewed this particular manual of yours?A. No.

Q. You probably heard some evidence yesterday fromPastor Lehmann about attending state and nationalconferences but not being aware of any particular childprotection policies that he had attended. Do you recallthat evidence yesterday?A. I do.

Q. What was the nature of induction and training withrespect to this particular policy at the Sunshine CoastChurch while you were there?A. It would have been handled by those people who wererunning the children's department, so it would be part ofthe whole training syllabus really.

Q. What was that syllabus during - just in general form,during the six years that you were at the helm?A. Are you talking about implementation of that process?

Q. Let's go through it. Induction of new people cominginto Sunshine Coast Church who were working with children,what induction process was there for those people?A. That manual would have been the baseline of thatinduction process. I wasn't in the children's ministry,but we had competent people that were.

Q. Was there training, some sort of rejuvenation oftraining about child protection issues at Sunshine CoastChurch while you were there?A. We intermittently met with all departmental leadersand then specifically children's ministry, youth ministrieset cetera, and so there would be a review of processes thatwere there and things that were successful, things thatneeded to be adapted or improved or constantly reviewingthings.

Q. I think we can see from this particular policy that itwas not changed or adapted during the time that you werethere; is that right?A. I didn't oversee any particular major changes to myknowledge. There may have been some, because that documentis dated on the 19th of the first month; I haven't got any

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9861

other document and I don't have access to any otherdocumentation.

Q. Do you recall knowing of any external training ofmembers of your church that were working in children's oryouth ministry from the Assemblies of God, or indeed fromanybody else, about child protection issues?A. The answer is, no, not specifically. There werethings that were available and I'm not sure exactly --

Q. How did you know that they were available?A. I think as a minister you get information comingthrough on an intermittent basis of what is available;youth support programs, children's support programs, but Iwould be just very general about that, I don't have anyspecifics.

Q. Pastor Peterson, I don't mean to be critical of you atall, but it seems that that process was reasonably casualin the sense that you could engage in those programs or notengage in them, there didn't seem to be any particularimperative to actually go through those processes?A. I think really what I'm saying is, we had competentpeople that were accountable and we met weekly as apastoral team. If there were concerns they were brought upand any things that needed to be changed were, so it wasn'tmeant to be nonchalant, it wasn't intense in terms of,because the competencies that were there were respected.

Q. Just going to this document exhibit 18-28, if page 13of that document, Ringtail 10, could come up. If we scrolldown so you can see the, "Conduct Policy", and if you readthat through to yourself.A. Yes.

Q. You will see there's a preamble there about thegeneral philosophy behind the policy; is that correct?A. Yes.

Q. Then there are dot points that describe certainprohibited conduct; do you see that?A. Yes.

Q. You'd agree that this is the primary part of themanual which describes conduct which those in children oryouth ministries should not engage in with children?A. Yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9862

Q. Just that first paragraph where it says:

The bible says to avoid the appearance ofevil. The enemy will try to destroy yourministry to the Lord and so it is with thisin mind that this policy has been formed.It shuts down opportunity for anybody tofalsely accuse you. (Satan is the accuserof the brethren ... [and there's areference there to the bible and then]leave no door open for him.

Do you see that?A. I do.

Q. Can you assist us by saying, why is the emphasis onthe appearance of evil as opposed to evil itself?A. I don't think they had viewed the document perhapswith that critical analysis, and I do observe what you'resaying. I mean, evil is what we're really wanting toavoid, not just the appearance, but evil itself.

Q. You're saying that the way in which the policy shouldhave operated was that it should have prohibited the evil,namely the child abuse, not just the appearance of evil?A. I think the thinking behind is, one leaves the dooropen for further, but it doesn't state that there.

Q. One skeptical eye who read that paragraph might say,"Well, it's not evil that's prohibited but it's theappearance of evil"?A. In other words, don't get caught.

Q. In other words, don't get caught, is that?A. I see it, I hear it, but that's not - obviously, theintent is genuine; the legal analysis may not have beenvery insightful.

Q. You would no doubt accept then that any sort ofindication that avoiding the appearance and not prohibitingevil was an inappropriate way in which to express thispolicy?A. Yes, it could have been written much better.

Q. If we go over to page 16, it appears that the concernsabout child sexual abuse, suspicions, rumours and so forth

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9863

are dealt with under something called, "Suspected UnusualBehaviour", do you see that?A. Yes, I do.

Q. Then there's a procedure, if we go over to the nextpage, a series of boxes which indicate a process; is thatright?A. Yes.

Q. Then the process appears to be that, once thebehaviour is observed - and that includes any concerns orsuspicions about child sexual abuse; is that correct?A. That would include that, yes, I think.

Q. They submit an Unusual Behaviour Form to thechildren's ministry director.A. Mmm.

Q. Just a side point on that, the ministry director isnot a paid position within the church, or it wasn't whileyou were there, was it?A. No.

Q. Is that correct?A. That's correct.

Q. Then it's passed on to you as the senior ministerwithin the church?A. Yes, it would be.

Q. Then I think the position is that the member isremoved from active service in the team; is that right?A. Yes.

Q. That seems to be the end of the process. The seniorpastor's informed and the children's ministry director andappropriate leaders observe the position. Do you see that?A. Yes.

Q. You're aware, are you not, of the policies within theAssemblies of God at the state level of what's calledmandatory reporting?A. Yes.

Q. You understand that the state policy, certainly in2008 and through to 2013, require that first of all anyallegations of child sexual abuse be reported first of all

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9864

to Child Protection Services in Queensland; do youunderstand that?A. Yes, I do.

Q. And also be reported promptly to the police?A. Yes.

Q. Do you understand that?A. I do understand that.

Q. Do you accept that this policy does not include anyreference to either of those processes?A. I do note that now, yes.

Q. Do you accept that that's a failing of this particularpolicy?A. It's a failing of the policy, but the procedure wouldhave been pursued had there been a case brought to myattention.

Q. Let's go back to that issue. You're saying that therewas an unwritten policy within the church from 2006-2012which required those receiving information about childsexual abuse to report to child protection and to report topolice; is that right?A. Could you state that again please?

Q. Sorry, that was a long one. In any event, you'resaying there was an unwritten policy about reporting ofchild sexual abuse, was there?A. I think there is a position that you have in thecommunity, and particularly as a minister, that if therewas a case of that nature you would immediately go downthose lines. I separate things from pastoral matters andpolice matters, and as far as I'm concerned that would be amatter that's not in our precinct primarily, it's a legalmatter, it goes elsewhere.

Q. What you're saying is that, even though there wasn't awritten policy at the Sunshine Coast Church in those yearswhere you were the senior pastor, if an allegation of childsexual abuse had come to you, you would have reported it tothe police?A. Absolutely.

Q. Was that policy, that unwritten policy, communicatedto for example the director of the children's ministry?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9865

A. Not in as many words, no.

Q. You agree that that reporting part of any process ofchild protection is a vital part of that process?A. Yes.

Q. And that, by not instructing the head of thechildren's ministry at the Sunshine Coast Church, that wasa failing?A. I do, but this policy comes as far as the seniorpastor's desk. It didn't proceed on beyond that, they'refrom there on my duties.

Q. That's the point I'm trying to make, that theredoesn't seem to have been any certainly written policy thatgoes beyond the matter arriving on your desk; is thatcorrect?A. It doesn't say that there, but that would be,understanding that would be my responsibility.

Q. Pastor, I want to now take you to the issues thatsurround [ALA]. I understand that the process is that, Ithink [ALA] had left your church by 2006 and in 2007 wasworshipping at another church?A. Yes.

Q. But his parents remained part of your congregation atSunshine Coast Church?A. Yes.

Q. You received information from his parents that [ALA]'sabuse had been reported to the local police?A. The local pastor and the police.

Q. [ALA] had reported the matter to his local pastor andthen the matter had been taken to [ALA]'s parents; is thatwhat you understood?A. Basically the sequence, yes.

Q. And that the parents and perhaps the local pastor, notyou, had taken the matter to the police?A. Yes.

Q. Is that right?A. (No audible response).

Q. What was the assistance you provided to [ALA] and his

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9866

family at about that time, at the time of the charging ofMr Baldwin?A. My role, because neither the perpetrator neither theperson that was damaged were in my sphere of influencedirectly, I only had one other line of support that I couldgive, and that was to the parents, which I gave and I gaveon an open day-to-day, night-to-night basis as neededthrough the critical time.

Q. That was in terms of pastoral support, is it?A. Yes, prayer and pastoral support, spiritual support,practical support where needed.

Q. Did you offer them any counselling during that firstperiod?A. My major is not counselling but I had access to thatand I was prepared to resource that financially ifnecessary if they - as required.

Q. Did you offer it to them?A. Yes, I think that's noted in the --

Q. Did they take it up?A. No, but I continued to give pastoral support andcounsel in that general sense.

Q. In terms of the way the chronology goes in thisparticular matter, we know that Mr Baldwin was charged onor about 24 May 2007. Do I take it that you first heardabout the charges being laid against Mr Baldwin at aboutthat date?A. At about that date, I don't have the specific date.

Q. You say at paragraph 22 of your statement that:

The board notified the district branch ofthe ACC about [ALA]'s complaint.

I think you've made some changes to say that youactually rang Pastor Goode?A. I rang Pastor Goode, yes.

Q. The evidence that we've been able to obtain fromPastor Swenson is that that information was conveyed to thestate executive about 13 November 2007. Do you accept thatthe charges were reported to the state executive at aboutthat time, November 2007?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9867

A. My understanding of procedures, which I understand inthe light of some changes, that it now is a directreporting to the state president. At that time, because ofthe three tiers of governance, it would normally beunderstood that any concerns were related to the districtsuperintendent, his executive, onto the statesuperintendent, their executive, and if it was a matterthat was of national significance, it went through to thenational executive.

Q. Indeed. What I want you to focus on if you could isthe date --A. No, I --

Q. -- it appears that certainly Pastor Swenson is sayingthat he was informed by Pastor Goode on 13 November 2007about the charges?A. I couldn't give you any information about how long ittook from - to get from my phone call, which would havebeen within the first week.

Q. The part that I wanted to ask you about is, if he wascharged and you knew in May 2007, why did it takeuntil November 2007 for that matter to be communicated tothe ACC?A. I would have contacted in the first week of my knowingto the district. What prolonged communication from thatpoint on, I have no knowledge of.

Q. I might leave Mr Chowdhury to follow-up thatparticular issue, but you're saying that you reported theissue promptly to the ACC?A. Yes, promptly. Yes, I did serve in the executiveleadership for 20 years, so I understood policies andprocedures.

Q. And you understood that there was indeed an obligationon Mr Baldwin to report under the code of conduct the factthat he'd been accused of some form of child sexual abuse?A. He wouldn't have taken that responsibility.Understanding, I wasn't the pastor of Mr Baldwin at anytime, so I somehow just get caught up in the demands but Iwasn't his pastor, I was pastoring the family that wasdisaffected.

Q. An important issue for the Royal Commission is the wayin which the Assemblies of God considers it responsible for

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9868

some things and not for others. Are you saying thatbecause Mr Baldwin had moved, had left your particularchurch, that you consider that you had no responsibilitywith respect to him?A. No, I don't - I didn't say that as such. What I'msaying is, I don't think automatically I hadresponsibility; I took responsibility and I did contact thedistrict as I thought was the protocol which has now beenchanged to direct contact with the president.

Q. Do you think there's benefit in having an obligationplaced upon ACC pastors that, if they become aware ofcriminal charges for example against a pastor, that theyreport that fact to the state executive?A. It was in the media and every minister on the coast,which was probably 30 or 40 ministers, would be as informedas I was informed. So I would have thought it was ratheropen information and I don't understand how the state --

Q. When you say it was reported, was it reported in Mayor later in that year in 2007?A. In the media?

Q. Yes.A. It was in the media I think from pretty well the firstweek. Obviously name withheld of the person, offender, I'mfairly certain it was in the media from the beginning.

Q. Pastor, are you able to assist us as to why there wasa period of time of over six months between charging andwhen Mr Baldwin's credential was suspended in December2007?A. I couldn't answer that question, that's in somebodyelse's jurisdiction, but the information would have beenthere. Why it didn't --

Q. Yes, I'm just wondering whether you have anyinformation that you can assist us with about why there wasthat apparent delay?A. I can't help you there, sorry.

Q. I want to talk to you first of all about the periodbetween the charging up until the trial. Do you understandthat period that I'm talking to you about? So chargingin May 2007 through to conviction --A. 2009.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9869

Q. -- in March 2009. Do you understand that?A. Yes.

Q. During that period do I understand that you continuedto provide pastoral support to --A. As required and as requested, yes.

Q. Did you hear [ALD]'s evidence yesterday --A. I did.

Q. -- about the atmosphere, if you like, within thecongregation at Sunshine Coast Church?A. Yes.

Q. You recall he said yesterday that there were somepeople within the congregation who supported him; yourecall that?A. I do recall that.

Q. And there were also other people within thecongregation who were opposed to them because theyconsidered perhaps that Mr Baldwin had been wronglyaccused?A. I heard that said.

Q. During that period between charge and conviction wereyou aware of those similar dynamics within yourcongregation about that?A. I didn't see it as opposing, I saw it as people in astate of conflict between the young man they had seen as aleader, and often times influencing their children, andwhat was in the courts, and as I understand it, the manpresumed innocent until proven, and so there was a time ofsuspense and in some people.

Q. Did you appreciate that there were particularpressures placed on [ALA]'s parents by being members of thecongregation given that turmoil within the congregation?A. There was pressure on them, but there was amongstthose that were very affirming and supportive a positivecontribution going on there.

Q. What steps did you take as senior pastor of theSunshine Coast Church to help to alleviate that tension,particularly the pressure placed upon the parents of [ALA]?A. Where I could, and when it was one-on-one or in thattype of setting, where there was questions, people saying

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9870

"is this possible, is this true?" The answer is, "We don'tknow for sure", but we offered and encouraged people togive support to [ALA]'s family as much as was possible.

Q. Did you explain the process, certainly the criminalprocess, but also the process of credentialing within theAOG, later the Australian Christian Churches, about howsuch matters are dealt with? Sorry, do you understand myquestion?A. Give it to me again.

Q. I'll withdraw the question and rephrase it.A. Thank you.

Q. There's a process, isn't there, within the Assembliesof God set out in the administration manual?A. Yes.

Q. Whereby, if there are allegations of this sort, thatthe pastor concerned has their credentials suspended?A. Yes.

Q. And that it awaits the criminal justice process. Isthat correct?A. Yes.

Q. And that, if the accused pastor is convicted, then thecredential is permanently withdrawn?A. Cancelled, mmm.

Q. And that the person cannot be restored to ministry atsome future stage?A. I understand the process.

Q. And you understood the process in 2007?A. Yes.

Q. And 2008?A. Yes.

Q. Did you explain that process to the congregation?A. No.

Q. Did somebody from the Assemblies of God, or theAustralian Christian Churches come and explain that to yourcongregation?A. I don't think I had any contact with the Assemblies of

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9871

God from the head office back to me in all of theprocedures, so, no.

Q. Are you critical of the state office for not havingthat contact?A. I hesitate to use the word "critical", but I do thinkwe could improve that process.

Q. Do you think it would have assisted you, the parentsand also your congregation if the procedures that areundertaken by the Assemblies of God in such matters hadbeen explained in some detail to each of those parties?A. In hindsight I think we probably could have done anumber of things better at a congregation level, but therewas name suppression, there was all sorts of other thingsgoing on, and in my perceived wisdom at the time I handledthings just privately and individually.

Q. After he was convicted, that is, after Mr Baldwin wasconvicted and sentenced in March 2009, was there anyapproach from the Assemblies of God to you or to yourknowledge to the parents?A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. You became aware, I presume, in March 2009 that he hadbeen convicted and sentenced?A. Yes, I did. Yes.

Q. Did you advise the state executive of that fact?A. No, I wouldn't have.

Q. Was there any particular reason why you didn't dothat?A. I felt it would be an executive matter more so than mylocal church; I had a pastoral obligation to the parentsalone as best I understood at that stage, it was beyond mydirect responsibility.

Q. Because the state executive had been informed throughthat process of speaking to Pastor Goode, you consideredthat the matter was then being handled by the stateexecutive and effectively --A. That would be my understanding, yes.

Q. Was that your understanding back in 2009?A. It would have been, yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9872

Q. So you considered there was no need for you toactually inform them of what was going on?A. Not at all.

Q. Did they write to you at any stage and ask you toprovide them with updates on what was happening with thecriminal case?A. Not to my recollection.

Q. Did they write to you to say, "Can you please keep usinformed of how the family and particularly [ALA] arehandling matters"?A. Not to my recollection.

Q. Did they write to you to say, "Can you inform thefamily, including [ALA], of the procedures under theadministration manual for credential holders"?A. Not that I can recall.

Q. Did they write to you suggesting that [ALA] and hisfamily be provided with counselling?A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. The next step appears to be, an email was sent by thefather, and I'll have his email of 7 May 2009 brought up onscreen. Tender bundle 10. You're aware of this email thatwas addressed to - the email's taken out, but you acceptthat this was sent to you on the date set out there, May 7,2009. You've read that now?A. I've scanned it through pretty well, I think.

Q. This is an email you received on or about 7 May 2009?A. Mmm.

Q. Sorry, is that a yes or a no?A. Yes.

Q. Thank you. We need it for the transcript, I'm sureyou understand.A. I understand.

Q. You will see at about a third of the way down [ALD]has written to you saying that Mr Baldwin has now beenconvicted, clearly saying that he was expecting some formof response from the Assemblies of God. You understoodthat at the time?A. I did understand it and I did make contact with the

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9873

family obviously in the light of this kind ofcommunication.

Q. The criticism doesn't seem to be directed at you butit is directed at the Assemblies of God as an overarchingorganisation, which included your church, didn't it?A. Yes.

Q. It says that:

One component of the process you may beable to assist with is the deafeningsilence from the Assemblies of God.

Do you see that?A. Yes.

Q. Then he goes on to say:

I see this as a significant lack of duty ofcare from leadership both here at the timeas well as those who supported them.

Then about two-thirds of the way down he poses thequestion:

Have AOG any processes in place to addressthese matters, or do they just duck forcover and hope it will go away?

Do you see that?A. I do.

Q. A bit further down:

More than a month has passed since thesentencing and not a word has been heardfrom AOG.


Q. You agree that that was the position, that nocommunication had been received by you at least after that?A. None to me, no. Not at all.

Q. Then if you go over to tender bundle 11, there's an

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9874

email to you from a number of people, including members ofthe board. It's from Chris Peterson to, I see Tom Lew isthere, and he was a member of the board at the SunshineCoast Church; is that right?A. Yes.

Q. And are the other members also members of the board atthat time?A. With the exception of Sandra Lew.

Q. It appears that you had been in contact with somebodycalled "Steve" at the ACC. Please, take your time to readthe email to yourself.A. Your question again on that paragraph?

Q. It appears that you had a conversation with somebodycalled Steve at the ACC; is that right?A. ACS, I think, more accurately.

Q. Was it the Australian Christian Churches or was it theinsurer, Australian Christian Services?A. I think it might have been, and I think it was inconnection with professional counselling being provided,that's what it was about.

Q. Following the email that you received, the one I tookyou to from the father, did you contact anybody at the ACCto raise his concerns with them?A. I'd spoke with them about the issue and my reflectionon this as best I can remember is that I would have said,"I am representing the ACC as a minister on the ground."The formal acknowledgment, obviously, was omitted - but Idid not operate just on my own behalf, I was a minister ofthe Assemblies of God or the ACC, and in that capacity Ihad offered all this service all the way through, so Ithink, to be fair to the ACC, they depend upon theirministers in a local autonomous structure as distinct froma denominational structure that we then carry out ourresponsibilities as best we can in a rightful way.

Q. Let's go back to it. You say you spoke to somebody atthe ACC. Who did you speak to, do you remember?A. It says, I just changed that to the ACS.

Q. You see the previous paragraph, the concern was thatthe Australian Christian Churches had not followed throughwith them concerning this matter; do you see that?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9875

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Are you saying that you did not speak to the ACC as aresult of the 2009 email from the father?A. No.

Q. But you spoke instead to Australian Christian Serviceswho are the --A. They probably contacted me, I would expect, and Ispoke to them on that.

Q. How would they have known to have contacted you, giventhe timing; it appears to be related to the email some fourdays earlier from the father?A. I can't remember.

Q. Do you recall what the response from the ACC was? Wasit along the lines of, "You should speak to our insurerabout the matter"?A. No, I didn't speak to the Australian ChristianChurches at any time in the course of the wholeproceedings, and only one phone call to my knowledge.

Q. Do you think it would have assisted in resolving thefather's concern about lack of response from the Assembliesof God or the Australian Christian Churches if you hadtaken that message to them in May 2009?A. The answer is probably, yes, it may have assisted, inhindsight.

Q. You're aware that in October 2011 the father was stillconcerned about lack of action from the Assemblies of God?A. Mmm.

Q. Was that a "yes"?A. Yes, sorry.

Q. Could you just go to the email which is at tenderbundle 17, the second half of that. Ignore the first part,the email from Gary Swenson. If we go down further youwill see there's an email there from the father, and thatlarge portion that's been redacted contains a large numberof emails of people who were sent that particular e-mail.You obtained a copy of this email yourself?A. I think I would have, yes.

Q. Do I take it that you were aware in October 2011 that

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9876

this issue about the AOG not responding or not seeming toacknowledge the conviction of one of its pastors wasuppermost in [ALD]'s mind?A. Could you just phrase that again?

Q. Yes, I'll put it again. Do I take it that in October2011 you knew that [ALA]'s father was still very concernedthat he had received no response from the Assemblies ofGod?A. Yes.

Q. This email entitled, "A cry from a father's heart, forhis sons", was obviously an impassioned cry for assistance,wasn't it?A. Yes, it was.

Q. You'd been providing pastoral assistance to this man,hadn't you?A. I had.

Q. For about I think four years by this stage?A. (Witness nods).

Q. I understand that he, that is the father, was notcritical of you at all; do you understand that?A. Yes, I do understand that.

Q. But this email was intensity critical of theAssemblies of God for not responding to the conviction forchild sexual abuse of a pastor of the Assemblies of God?A. Yes.

Q. I think we've seen from the earlier part of that emailthat the matter was taken up by Mr Swenson and we'll hearfrom him later this morning. Are you aware of what tookplace as a result of this particular e-mail, what responsethe family received from the Assemblies of God orAustralian Christian Churches?A. We're referring to Mr Swenson's travel to Broome,et cetera?

Q. Did anything happen between - that occurred in July2012, but what happened in the period between October 2011and July 2012?A. No, I'm not aware of anything.

MR BECKETT: Those are my questions for Pastor Peterson.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) C J PETERSON (Mr Kernaghan)


9877

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Thank you. Mr Kernaghan?

MR KERNAGHAN: Q. Sir, my name is Aaron Kernaghan and asyou know I act for Pastor Lehmann, Mr Lehmann as he is nowknown. You were asked some questions in relation toexhibit 18 and I wonder if that could be shown again. Thisis the child abuse policy; that document there. I thinkthat you were of the opinion that it may have been inpreparation slightly before the time that you came intoyour responsibilities at the church in January 2006; isthat correct?A. That is my belief, yes.

Q. Is your first recollection of being exposed to thisdocument on or after January 2006?A. It would be the launch of our children's ministry forthat year, that document would have been prepared, so thatwas my first year of tenure.

Q. Is that something that would have been prepared asmatter of course each year or just on that particularoccasion?A. The way I understood it, whether accurate orinaccurate, the way I understood it, it was needed, it wasa very comprehensive document, training document, and itwas a needed document, and probably it might have neededrevision more so than replacement year-to-year. It wouldhave been reviewed constantly because we want to upgradeour children's work leaders and also the program.

Q. So as far as you can recall today, when you commencedyour work, your ministry as senior pastor of the churchin January 2006, there was some form of policy, albeit adraft policy, in place on the area of child abuse?A. I would be of that belief personally, because theother document that was submitted, the 1994 June document,was also in that collection of the, you know, of the loosepages, so that has also been tendered to the Commission.

Q. You're referring to a document that was shown toMr Lehmann yesterday afternoon?A. That's the 1994 document on child abuse.

Q. Is that a document that you remember seeing when youtook up your responsibilities in January 2006?A. I'm aware of that document because I was also

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9878

pastoring churches for the last 40 years with theAssemblies of God.

Q. So are you saying you were aware of that documentbefore June 2006?A. Yes, when it was in preparation back in the 90s.

Q. Isn't it the case that during 2006 the ACC were in theprocess of releasing a new policy in relation to childprotection?A. I think, like any organisation, it was reviewing andimproving its processes all the time.

Q. Do you recall receiving correspondence from the ACC inQueensland regarding a new child protection policy?A. Not specifically, but I am sure there was documentscoming through.

Q. In January 2006 what function did you serve on theboard of the church?A. I took over as chairman of the board.

Q. Any review that was to be conducted by a sub-committeefrom the board, would that be a review that would beconducted under your supervision?A. That would be using the term loosely; there would besome direct instruction given, but then the leaders ofvarious departments would be responsible to put those kindof programs together and also - such as the child abusedocument included.

Q. If there had been a working party set up for exampleto review the matter of child protection, would that besomething that you as the chairman would be aware of?A. It wouldn't. It may not have gotten to the businessboard of the church, but it certainly would have beenhandled by the pastoral team, which was voluntary workersas well as staff paid, paid staff workers.

Q. I'll just ask you to look at tender bundle 1 when thatcomes up on screen. Do you recognise that document? I'lljust ask if the document can stop at that point. Have youbeen able to scan that information?A. Do you want me to speak to item 4 or just --

Q. No, I just want to know if you've had a chance toreview that material?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9879

A. This is very much in my first steps into the office,so I'm...

Q. You will see that there is an entry there, or thetitle of the document first of all is, "Minutes ofResignation of Ministers Baldwin and Lehmann" and "ACCChild Protection Policy Implementation", do you see that?A. Yes.

Q. You'll agree that the first date there relating toitem 5 is 27 June 2006 and then down the page we come to adate prior to that, 12 January 2006, in which item 4 isspecified, then there is 4.1, "Child Protection PolicyChanges"; do you see that?A. Mm-hmm.

Q. Then it refers to the letter from ACC. First of all,can you indicate if you've read what's under 4.1. Do yousee that?A. Yes, I do.

Q. Do you remember a minute of a board meeting to thateffect being made?A. This would have been the meeting I took over as thechairman, so obviously this work was done prior to mytaking over, but the person that was given the task was oneof the new appointees to the board and - this is on the12th, on the 19th that document was prepared, so there wassome very rapid action I think.

Q. You say the 19th, are you referring to the 19 Decemberdate?A. 19 January 2006 which is the child abuse document.

Q. You say on 19 January that document was prepared? Isthat what you're saying?A. Yes. In other words, it was after this instructionwas given, that final preparation of that document waspresented?

Q. I want to be fair to you, sir, and take you down thepage and over the page, and you will see an entry thereunder the date, "8th November 2007", and a paragraph thathas certain words. Do you agree that those - that is, theparagraph under "8th November 2007", appears very similarto the paragraph I've just taken you to on the precedingpage?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9880

A. Yes.

Q. Is it your memory that this Child Protection Policyletter from the ACC Queensland office came in January 2006or November 2007?A. I would --

Q. Or are you unsure?A. I am not sure, but I would think that there was anongoing communication from our state office on suchmatters.

Q. You see, what's recorded both on this page, and youcan accept from me on the preceding page, as being on19 December 2007 is that indication there, that a personnamed Lyndon reported that a working committee had beenformed.A. Mm-hmm.

Q. Do you remember anything about the details of thatworking committee?A. No, I don't.

Q. Do you remember anything about when it was formed?A. No.

Q. You accept that, if that date is correct, that thatworking committee appears to be in some response to orrelated to the ACC Queensland office letter detailed in thenote above?A. Mm-hmm.

Q. And you'd accept that that occurred well into yourministry as senior pastor?A. Possibly.

Q. Having seen that, and considering exhibit 18 that youwere shown before, the child abuse policy, is that a policythat was developed or adopted by your church during thecourse of this working committee?A. Could you run that one more time?

Q. I'll just show you on the screen again exhibit 18,just to remind you of that document.A. Yes.

Q. That's a document that I think you said you recall

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9881

being in the works when you took up your responsibilitiesat the church?A. I am saying I believe it was, yes.

Q. Is it possible, having looked at those file notes,that that's a document that was adopted by the churchduring the progress of the working committee that I'vetaken you to?A. I think a lot of this stuff is constantly in theprocess of being reviewed and revision done, that would bethe normal process in every church organisation, I think.

Q. So you're saying that the working committee in 2007,or the end of 2007, would have naturally reviewed adocument like this if it existed at that time?A. I would think that would be the procedure, butcertainly with the mindset of upgrading and updating andrefining and improving.

Q. You were asked this question by Counsel Assistingearly in your evidence this morning, and this is atpage 9857, the question at line 16:

We've been provided with a document wherethe cover, at least [and it's referring tothis document on the screen] to this partof the children's manual, says it wascreated on 19 January 2006. Are you awareof any changes that were made between 2006and 2012 to this part of the manual?

And your answer was:

I don't have any recall of that. I thinkit was seen to be adequate as best weunderstood.

Having seen the notes that I've taken you to, is itthe case that in fact that manual, and any other policythat may have existed at the time, was under review withintwo years of you taking up your position as senior pastor?A. Yes. Yes, it was possible. I don't have any details.

MR KERNAGHAN: Thank you, your Honour. Thank you,Commissioner.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Mr O'Brien?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) C J PETERSON (Mr O'Brien)


9882

<EXAMINATION BY MR O'BRIEN:

MR O'BRIEN Q. My name's O'Brien, I represent Mr [ALA],his mother and father. You were shown tender bundle 10,that was an email that you received from [ALD]. Do yourecall being shown that by Counsel Assisting? You receivedthat email on 7 May 2009. I'd like to ask you a series ofquestions about that document, if I may?A. Obviously, it's a very detailed document, I'll answerthe best I can.

Q. Do you want to read it again?A. Yes.

Q. So you remember being asked questions by CounselAssisting in relation to that particular e-mail?A. Yes.

Q. And you remember when it was sent to you?A. There's a lot of things come. I can't say, yes, Iremember specifically the time and place, but yes, I'maware of the document.

Q. You received that email and your evidence earlier wasthat you had a meeting with the mother and father of [ALA]within the days afterwards; is that right?A. Could you roll that down and give us the date on thatjust to refresh my mind? I was constantly in touch withthe family as needed throughout the whole time, so it'shard to say, were you there or did you on a certain day.

Q. All right, I'll come back to that.A. We were accessible.

Q. In any event, when you received this email it was, Iimagine, in your mind it was quite a pressing matter; you'djust had a conviction recorded against a youth pastor inthe church, he'd just been sentenced to imprisonment, andin those circumstances this would have been of some momentfor you?A. Huge.

Q. That's right?A. Yes, that's correct.

Q. What the family were obviously conveying in this

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9883

email, amongst other things, one of the significant thingsthat was being conveyed was the concern about what theleadership of the church was going to be doing, what sortof assistance they'd provide. Is that right?A. Yes, that's referred to.

Q. That was obviously the way you read the email.Correct?A. Yes.

Q. In addition to that, concerns were being relayed toyou as someone who'd assisted the family as to what theleadership were actually going to do; that's right?A. Yes.

Q. You've said earlier in your evidence in relation tothose questions asked by Counsel Assisting that youacknowledged that you should have gone and spoke to the ACCabout it directly?A. Yes.

Q. You acknowledge that that may well have assisted thefamily?A. It may have, yes.

Q. When you look at this email again, you've now lookedat it a couple of times --A. Yes.

Q. -- in these proceedings, it's fairly obvious that'sprecisely what was being asked of you; is that right?A. It is, yes.

Q. You obviously saw the need for support and immediatesupervision and pastoral care which you provided. Correct?A. Yes.

Q. You'd agree with me, wouldn't you, that a failing onyour part was not going higher, not putting pressure onthose above you and those responsible at the top to assistthe victim of the abuse and the family of that person?A. Yes, I accept some responsibility there; I could havedone much better.

Q. You were talking about the structure of the ACC. Canyou go through that again? It was you, and who's aboveyou?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9884

A. The way it's structured, it's national, state and thenthe states are broken into districts. So they have adistrict superintendent, state president, nationalpresident over executives at each level. So you've gotdistrict superintendant with his executive leadership, andthe normal accountability process and reporting process isup-line. In other words, it's sometimes very difficult forone of the rank and file pastors to connect with the statepresident. The process is, go to the district, thedistrict looks after it, pushes it through, and if thestate thinks it's responsible, they take it to the nationalexecutive in between conferences, which is our finalauthority.

Q. So it was a pretty cumbersome sort of government ofthe organisation, isn't it?A. I think it does become unwieldy and it becomessomewhat difficult to work with, as has been reflected inother matters that have been on the floor.

Q. This government structure that you were workingwithin, did it provide an impediment to your dealing withthe ACC in any other way?A. I am not going to use any excuses here. I think if Ihad been a little bit more vigorous in my pursuit of theprocess I could have made it work, but I don't think itoffers an open door process and policy where you canreadily get access, and I think that probably is needing areview.

Q. That was the case in 2009; is that still the case inyour view now?A. I am now retired, so I am largely out of the functionside of the ministry, the fellowship.

Q. Obviously as a minister or pastor of a parish and achurch, you have a large number of people who have aspecial connection with you; that is obviously the case?A. Yes.

Q. One of those set of people was the family of [ALA]?A. Yes.

Q. Amongst them there are other worshipers at the churchas well who no doubt would feel for [ALA] and his familygoing through this, and you share a connection with all ofthem in a pastoral sense as the senior pastor of the

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9885

church?A. Yes.

Q. Did you feel at that stage that you had an obligation,as the minister of the assembly, to put pressure upstairsto assist the family in compensating [ALA]?A. As I reflect on things now, I think in context to whatyou've just said, yes, I could have done and I should havedone more, and there is no excuses for that, just maybe itwas a blind spot in my - I was attending to their felt needat the time; I was not accounting for the Assemblies of Godor ACC's lack of involvement and I should have.

Q. The family raised in this email also the concern thatthey had about a breach of a duty of care by yourpredecessor, your immediate predecessor, that's clearlyraised there, isn't it?A. Yes, it is I think.

Q. You would have recognised as a chairman of the boardof the church that a breach of that type of duty may welllead to, not only civil action, but a moral and legalresponsibility to compensate. Correct?A. Yes, I think that would be understood, yes.

Q. Understanding that moral and legal responsibility, whydidn't you then put pressure upwards? Was it --

MR CHOWDHURY: I object to the question to start, becausethe state executive had no legal responsibility forcompensation, that was the autonomous church, and that'sbeen established yesterday, it's been establishedthroughout the hearing, so I really don't see any relevanceof the question on that basis.

He's already been asked about why he didn't forwardthe concerns up the line, and he's given answers aboutthat.

MR O'BRIEN: Well, the first set of questions related,your Honour, to the request to do so.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Yes.

MR O'BRIEN: The second set of questions related to apersonal understanding as obviously a professionalintelligent man in that position.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9886

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: I understand the basis of theobjection from Mr Chowdhury is the inaccuracy of the legalresponsibility, not to that part of the question --

MR CHOWDHURY: Correct.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: -- that refers to the moralresponsibility.

MR O'BRIEN: I'm only asking this witness, with respect,your Honour, whether he recognised that there may have beena legal responsibility on behalf of the church that he wasa chairman of the board of.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: With respect to the board asopposed to the Australian Christian Churches?

MR O'BRIEN: I'll rephrase it and come back to it.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Perhaps that's an opportune time.We'll just take 15 minutes now for the mid-morning break.

SHORT ADJOURNMENT

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Yes, Mr O'Brien.

MR O'BRIEN: Thanks, your Honour.

Q. Prior to the break I was asking you, sir, about theemail that you received from [ALD] on 7 May 2009, and inparticular the concern raised by [ALD] that there was afailing in the leadership of the church. When you heard[ALD] talking that type of language, a failing in theleadership of the church - if we could have tender bundle10 on the screen please - you realise that he was talkingon one level about Lehmann, did you?A. I'll just refresh my thoughts. I think he said that,yes.

Q. [ALD] had said in the email:

This crime was carried out under the nosesof the leadership at the time (notyourself) despite them having beenapproached by concerned congregationmembers.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9887

You can see that?A. Yes, I see that, yes.

Q. Further down, [ALD] wrote:

What about our church?

Can you see that?A. I see, "What is the church's position?" Where is itfrom there?

Q. Okay:

What is the church's position in thismatter? Are the leadership concerned aboutthe victim at all? Have they ducked forcover hoping this will go away? A youngman, actively involved in their church, hasbeen seriously wounded [in] all of this.


Q. Then further down:

What about our church? Have the AOG anyprocesses in place to address thesematters, or do they just duck for cover andhope it will go away?

A. I see that.

Q. [ALD] was obviously talking about the leadershipwithin the Sunshine Coast Church on one level, you'd acceptthat?A. Yes.

Q. And on another level he was concerned about what theAOG was going to be doing about this as well?A. Yes.

Q. You spoke to ACS?A. I was contacted - this is concerning the counsellingavailability?

Q. Yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9888

A. Yes, they contacted us on that I think.

Q. So they contacted you and you spoke to them aboutcounselling and assistance for the family?A. I said that's what I'd already offered, I think, if Irecall.

Q. Were you aware that the Sunshine Church, of which youwere the senior pastor and chair of the board, had theinsurance arrangements in place with Ansvar?A. Every church within our organisation has got all thoselevels of insurance in place.

Q. So the public indemnity insurance has been referredto, you were aware of that insurance at the time?A. Absolutely, absolutely, it's mandatory I think.

Q. You understood that any potential civil action orclaim for compensation that might be made in relation to anaction against the church might need to be referred to theinsurance company?A. I think that aspect of it was being handled by mybusiness administrator.

Q. Who was that?A. Mr Lew.

Q. You understood that there may well be a legalresponsibility for the church?A. Absolutely and --

Q. That is, for the Sunshine Coast Church?A. Yes.

Q. Did it dawn upon you that there may be a legalresponsibility to the AOG, that they had a legalresponsibility to what had happened to [ALA]?A. Well, I'm not a lawyer, so I probably hadn't drilleddown on those possibilities.

Q. Going back then to the email, you understood from theemail that [ALD] was saying, what's the position of thechurch and also what's the position of the AOG. Youunderstood that?A. Yes.

Q. You, I suppose, at that stage were able to comment on

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9889

the position of the church; right?A. I guess, yes.

Q. You provided local support and assistance to thefamily?A. Yes, I did.

Q. And you didn't, on your own admissions and acceptingresponsibility for the failings of those, contact the AOG?A. Adequately.

Q. Do you think that, when Mr [ALD] wrote this email toyou at that time, that he had the impression that the AOGhad a responsibility for what had happened to his son?A. It seems in the general tenor of it he was sayingthat. My off the record response to him was that I wasrepresentative of the Assemblies of God, so they would bedepending upon me as the local minister of an autonomouscongregation to do certain things and maybe that's wherethere was cloud, as to where things begin and where thingsdon't and where things end and whose responsibility startsand finishes where.

Q. Sir, did you have any intention of trying to keep itlocal and not present it at a broader level?A. I was aware that the broader level was well informedof the media and general communication by this time in thesuspending of credentials et cetera, et cetera. They wouldhave been very adequately across the information, andwhether they had the processes in place to execute anythings, that's beyond my knowledge.

Q. So at this stage when you received this email, youthought, the AOG are well aware of this already?A. I was trying to do what I needed to do, and the AOGobviously were well aware.

Q. So, you thought that your role was simply to keep --A. I was doing what I could at the very hands-on personallevel until the family moved, and of course then it wasphone only.

Q. Can we have a look at tender bundle 9 please. This isfrom your business administrator?A. Yes.

Q. Tom Lew. It's dated 29 March 2009. Do you see that?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9890

A. Yes.

Q. This is two days after the conviction of JonathanBaldwin?A. Yes.

Q. Do you recall receiving this email two days after theconviction of Baldwin?A. No, I'm not aware - I wasn't aware of the chronology,but I am aware of the essence of it, yes.

Q. Did you receive it?A. I think I would have. I don't know what the --

Q. The recipients have been redacted, but I don't know ifyou were or you weren't, I submit the question in fairnessto you?A. I couldn't answer that question, it --

Q. It's the sort of email that would be sent to you?A. It would have come out from a board direction, Ithink, or at least in some degree of consultation.

Q. Because it's fair to say that the church that you werethe chairman of the board of was concerned about a civilsuit?A. I have an obligation as the chairman of the board tobe across all the matters, including the matter that'sbefore us, so yes, there is a responsibility to look at allfacets and implications, yes.

Q. So, you were concerned that there was going to becivil action against the church?A. We were prepared for whatever it was required and wewere not in a --

Q. So this email --

MR TAYLOR: I ask that the witness be allowed to finishhis answer.

MR O'BRIEN: It wasn't responsive, that's why I'm askingit again.

Q. This email indicates, does it not, that there wasconcern about a civil suit; right?A. It says that, yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9891

Q. And so, you were concerned about that suit causingfinancial damage to the church?A. I'm not sure that the preface to that email suggeststhat we were going into a multi-million dollar businessdeal, doesn't say the numbers there, and that we needed tobe wise in what we committed the church to if we were in aprecarious legal position, so obviously that's just a goodquestion, I think, from a responsible leadership.

Q. You were concerned that a suit causing financialdamage to the church might be taken? Is that the case ornot?A. Well, we wouldn't have gone in, because we couldn'thave serviced the demands of that civil suit, we weretalking about - at the second paragraph I'm thinking likeyou, that it may be best to purchase it, the new propertyin a separate entity, but that separate entity was alreadyestablished. There was a property holding entity alreadyin place.

Q. Are you struggling to accept that there was a concernon your part as the chairman of the board of the church --A. I'm not struggling for a moment.

Q. -- that there was a financial interest that might beadversely affected against the church by some sort of civilsuit by [ALA]? Is that a difficult question?A. No, not a difficult question and my answer is simply,we were trying to be responsible as leaders and businessmanagers on behalf of a congregation of people. Itwouldn't be wise for us to take on an another majorobligation if we were about to sell properties that wealready owned to service a debt that could arise out ofthat.

Q. What this email was talking about was the potentialpurchase of new property. Correct?A. Yes, well, from our (indistinct).

Q. In a new entity other than the church's initialentity?A. I don't think that that's very accurate because wealready had three entities, one was a property holdingnon-trading company.

Q. The effect of this email, sir, if you accept it from

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9892

me, is that you were trying to avoid any sort of actionimpacting on the acquisition of assets of the church?A. This looks like my business manager connecting withour financial advisor as the primary recipient of that.

Q. This is the church itself trying to minimise thefinancial damage that was going to happen if there was acivil suit seeking compensation from you?A. We were minimising nothing, sir. We were prepared todo whatever was proper.

Q. That was in the days after the conviction of Baldwin?A. That just was, happens to be incidental to thereality. We were going on with our life, we weren'twaiting for the outcome of a court case.

Q. In the months after, in your exchanges with the familyof [ALA] --A. Yes.

Q. -- seeking redress from both the church and the AOG,you did what you could in a pastoral capacity?A. Yes.

Q. But you made no effort to assist the family in tryingto have them compensated by the AOG, did you?A. The ACS, which is the insurance company, was obviouslyin the loop with my business manager. I don't know whetherI heard your question correctly, but that's - I think thatthe information is there.

Q. You thought it sufficient to have the ACS providewhatever services they could do; that would be enough?A. I think they were handling it, the matter, as best asI understood; it was beyond my immediate sphere ofresponsibility, functionally, I thought.

Q. It was the AOG, was it, who organised the insurancepolicy?A. No, we negotiate with the ACS, which is the businessarm of the Assemblies of God or ACC.

Q. So you contacted the ACC, the ACC organised theinsurance policies with your --A. No, ACS, the Australian Christian Services which isthe business arm of the ACC, so we don't deal with the ACCon that matter, we deal with their business arm which is

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) C J PETERSON (Mr Chowdhury)


9893

the ACS.

Q. Did you at that stage see a legal responsibility bythe ACC towards the family of [ALA] and [ALA] himself?A. I thought that was being handled by the ACS and by theinsurance company, I was out of that loop, and that was aseparately negotiated settlement.

MR O'BRIEN: Thanks for your time, no further questions.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Thank you, Mr O'Brien.Mr Chowdhury?

<EXAMINATION BY MR CHOWDHURY:

MR CHOWDHURY: Q. Sir, my name is Craig Chowdhury, I actfor Australian Christian Churches.A. Thank you.

Q. Just to the change you made today to paragraph 22 ofyour statement, perhaps if that could be brought up foryour benefit, sir. I'm just asking it be brought up on thescreen for your benefit.A. Yes.

Q. When did you realise that that change should be made?A. I thought it was a very general - when things areprocessed through a board you can say "we" or you can takethe personal, and it was a personal one, it was myself, Idid it, as it was my appropriate responsibility to do, so Ijust adjusted that, or I think more accurately alignedthat.

Q. So, you made the change today that you rang AshleyGoode who was the district superintendent?A. I believe I did. I believe without doubt I did.

Q. You made reference to media reports in 2007 of Baldwinbeing charged?A. Yes.

Q. Would you agree that any media coverage was in thelocal newspaper only, the Sunshine Coast News?A. I do think it, I think it went electronic as well asprint media to the best of my recall, and I can't vouch forthat. In my understanding it was covered, at least -certainly electronic, radio media, but certainly I'm fairly

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9894

certain the news as well, not that our men sit and watchthe news.

Q. So there might have been some local radio commentary,is that what you're suggesting?A. I think there were some things noted at that level andcertainly in the paper it was there. Of course, [ALA]'sidentity was suppressed.

Q. I suggest that Baldwin's identity was suppressed aswell?A. I'm not sure - it may have been, but the churches, itwas just referred to I think even then as a church on theSunshine Coast.

Q. Correct. I take it, you weren't familiar withQueensland law about what could be published at that time?A. Pardon me?

Q. You weren't familiar with the Queensland law?A. No, I was not, it was breaking over all of us at thetime, the enormity of the situation.

Q. My proposition is, you'd accept that in 2007 all thatwas reported was there was a complaint of sexual abusearising out of a church in the Sunshine Coast, and thatneither the complainant's name nor the offender's name werementioned. Do you accept that?A. I'm not sure that that is totally accepted, totallyaccurate, I think maybe it was, maybe, I couldn't say. Iwould have thought that maybe Baldwin's name was mentioned,I'm not sure.

Q. I won't have a discussion of what the law inQueensland was about that. You accepted that you did notinform the state executive of Baldwin's conviction --A. Directly, yes.

Q. -- in 2009. Did you inform the districtsuperintendent of that?A. I believe so.

Q. Do you have a specific recollection of doing that?A. Yes, it's in my mind that discussion, because I don'ttalk to the superintendent often, so on matters that Ithink are important I would, and that would come into thatcategory.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9895

Q. I want to take you back to that email from [ALD] inMay 2009 which is at tab 10 of the tender bundle. You'vehad the opportunity now through the questioning to read allof that. Correct?A. Yes.

Q. If we scroll down to the bottom, there is a specificrequest, wasn't there --A. Yes.

Q.Can I leave this with you to pass up theline? Systems must surely be in place forthe appropriate handling of such matters.

A. All right, yes.

Q. You've already conceded that you didn't do that;correct?A. I have.

Q. It would have been easy for you simply to forward thatemail onto Ashley Goode or to the state executive; correct?A. Yes.

Q. It was put to you that at this time in 2007-2009, thatthe structure of the Assemblies of God, then becoming theAustralian Christian Churches, was cumbersome. It was avery straightforward structure, wasn't it?A. The structure is there and it looks straightforward;it is sometimes more difficult to navigate that structure.By that I mean, the accessibility of the office holders maynot be, seeing they require us to speak to for instance thestate president with such matters. There's two or threemajor points of explanation in the process, which is theprocess. If you wanted to verbally or telephone throughthat system, it's not an open process, and I think probablyis, if you can set that policy in place, you need an openaccessible channel to work through and I don't think itwould be that, I think most phone numbers are not thataccessible.

Q. Can I suggest that the phone numbers for the stateexecutive were readily available to you and indeed otherpastors in the movement. Do you accept that?A. I hear what you're saying.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9896

Q. Do you accept it?A. I don't have access to that, but you're telling me Ido, so I maybe need to get a bit more skilful in mytechnology.

Q. Weren't you on the state executive for a considerablepart?A. 20 years.

Q. 20 years on the state executive?A. Yes, I was.

Q. Weren't you the assistant superintendent?A. I was.

Q. It's now called the vice-president?A. Vice-president.

Q. So you well understood how this system worked, didn'tyou?A. Yes, I was and that's why I went through the tiers ofthat day, which was district, state and national.

Q. You knew the national president, didn't you, in 2007and 2009?A. Mr Alcorn?

Q. Yes, you knew him well, didn't you?A. I knew him very well.Q. You knew Mr Swenson the state president?A. Very well.

Q. I suggest you could have easily picked up the phoneand called them if you wanted to speak to them?A. That's what you're saying. I don't have theirnumbers, but that's fine.

Q. Did you make any effort to get their numbers to speakto them?A. No, I didn't.

Q. You obviously had internet access in 2007-2009?A. Yes.

Q. So you presumably had access to your computer?A. Yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9897

Q. Were you aware that there was a website for both thenational movement and for the state that you could access?Were you aware of that?A. Yes. I'm sure there is.

Q. You're sure there is; is that what you're saying?A. Yes.

Q. My question is, were you aware in 2007 and 2009 thatthere was a publicly available website for both the stateand national executives of the movement?A. Yes.

Q. You could simply go to that and look at the contactnumbers for the various executives; do you accept that?A. To their office?

Q. (Nods).A. Yes.

Q. If tender bundle 14 could be brought up please. Youmay not have seen this, sir, please let me know if youhaven't. This is a report from Gary Swenson dated12 October 2011. Have you seen this before?A. Yes, I've sighted this document.

Q. If we scroll down, there Mr Swenson summarises twoconversations he had with you on 11 and 12 October 2011about the family of [ALA]; correct? I'll give you anopportunity to read it and then you can answer thequestion.A. Read it.

Q. Do you recall those conversations with Mr Swenson?A. I don't as a matter of fact.

Q. Do you recall in October 2011 Gary Swenson calling youto speak to you?A. No, I don't.

Q. Do you accept that he had those conversations withyou?A. I can accept that, I just don't remember them.

Q. If I could take you to tender bundle 1, you've beenshown this before. These are the minutes. Do you know who

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9898

typed these up?A. No, I don't.

Q. Who normally prepared the minutes for the board of theSunshine Coast Church?A. The gentleman taking the minutes, the secretary.

Q. Who was the secretary at this time?A. I think at this time there was probably somebody doingthe minutes, or taking the minutes, probably it was a youngminister called David Dawkins.

Q. David Dawkins?A. Possibly, I - it's possible.

Q. I accept that. Anyway, if we go to the second page ofthat, if we scroll down. It refers to a letter beingreceived from ACC Queensland in regards to the new childprotection policies and implementation. Do you see thatthere?A. Yes.

Q. It's the case, isn't it, that you would receivecommunications from the state executive on a variety oftopics. Correct?A. Absolutely.

Q. And there were state conferences for pastors?A. Yes.

Q. Would you attend those state conferences?A. I attended a percentage of them, yes.

Q. You'd agree that at the state conferences youattended, sometimes policies or revision of policies wouldbe discussed?A. Yes, to some small degree, yes, I think it was part ofthe conference.

Q. Would you agree that pastors, in particular you, weregiven the opportunity to attend training in respect ofpolicies of the movement?A. Yes, on a regular basis I think that's there.

Q. On a regular basis?A. I think on various, particularly administrativethings, yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) C J PETERSON (Mr Taylor)


9899

Q. If you go to 3.1 there under "19th December 2007",this is the establishment of working committee. Lyndonreported, who is Lyndon?A. Lyndon Westbrook who was a probationary minister withthe Assemblies of God.

Q. I take it, you know the other persons mentioned there?A. Yes, they're school teachers, three of them I thinkout of the four are school teachers.

MR CHOWDHURY: I have nothing further, thank you.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Mr Taylor?

MR TAYLOR: Thank you, your Honour.

<EXAMINATION BY MR TAYLOR:

MR TAYLOR Q. Mr Peterson, when did you retire as pastorof the church?A. At the end of 2012. Early December, 5 December 2012to be precise.

Q. You made the statement that's been tendered earliertoday on 3 October, a statement to this Royal Commission,on 3 October 2014?A. Yes.

Q. Did you have access to any documents when you madethat statement?A. That was a telephone interview and it was with nonotice of items to be asked.

Q. I'll just ask you again: Did you have access to anydocuments when you were preparing that statement?A. No.

Q. That's a "no", sir?A. That's a "no".

Q. Do you recall the email from Mr [ALD] dated 7 May 2009that you have been shown, it's in tender bundle 10. Youknow the email I'm talking about?A. I know.

Q. Did you respond to that, that is, respond to Mr [ALD]?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) C J PETERSON (Mr Taylor)


9900

A. I think I did respond, maybe not in detail as - why.

Q. Your Honour, could tender bundle 27 be brought up onthe screen please. If you for the time being just ignorethe very top part. You will see it says, "From: ChrisPeterson. Sent: 11 May 2009. To: [ALD]". You recognisethat email?A. Mm-hmm.

Q. Do you recognise that email?A. I'm certain that came out of my office.

Q. And you sent that email to Mr [ALD]?A. I would have sent that email.

Q. You were asked some questions by Mr O'Brien inrelation to the insurance situation and the insuranceclaim. Did you take any active role in dealing with thecivil proceedings which were taken on behalf of --A. Not at all.

Q. You're aware, are you not, that Mr Swenson hasprepared a report dated 4 September 2012 in relation tothis matter?A. Yes.

Q. In that report he says that you were not in closerelationship and connection with the ACC and failed toadvise the state executive of anything concerning thematter. You're aware of that document, aren't you?A. Yes, I am.

Q. Did you have any conversation with Mr Swenson inrelation to the preparation of that report?A. Nothing that I recall.

Q. You were involved in the Sunshine Coast Church forsome six years, correct? And prior to that you'd beeninvolved in other churches?A. Yes.

Q. How many years were you involved in other churches?A. Prior to that time, about nearly 40 years.

Q. Based on that experience is there anything you thinkyou could tell the Royal Commission in relation to matterswhich have been aired in the hearing which would assist the

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) C J PETERSON


9901

Royal Commission in making its recommendations?A. I mean, there's always a human error and I certainlydid not pursue things for a number of reasons. From myperspective, it's somewhat difficult, but as has beenhighlighted I didn't perhaps try very hard. But I dothink, if you are going to require that we connect directlyto a president of an organisation, then we've got tominimise the hurdles and the hoops; whereas you get to thefirst line of reception and then the personal assistant andthen so forth, each one requiring some definition of theproblem to get through ultimately to where you need to go.I think that is too difficult a course to get to that - ifyou're going to require report direct pastor, senior pastorreporting to president, I think it's just not that simpleto do.

My suggestion would be that we create some sort ofhotline or facility where every senior pastor had animmediate connection on matters of such importance, notjust to encumber his life but to facilitate for a moreeffective reporting process, because I'm not uninformed ofthe proceeds, procedures, I worked in the executive for 20plus years; I think it needs to be simplified so it can beworked more effective. That would be my suggestion.

Q. Do you have any other suggestions the Royal Commissionmight wish to look at?A. I think I've said as much as I can.

MR TAYLOR: Thank you, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Mr Beckett?

MR BECKETT: Nothing arising, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Q. Just one matter which in someways follows from that, pastor. Are you able to describethe atmosphere that existed inside your congregation at thetime the news of the charging of Jonathan Baldwin broke?A. I think there was, across the congregation a whole,for those that new Jonathan, and you understand thecongregation does grow and change, there was shock. Therewas shock and then questions, who and how many and whoelse, and so there was all sorts, and so it created aperiod of uncertainty, I suppose, and difficulty. It washard to know whether you go public to try and work, or youjust work with the people that are primary influences of

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) C J PETERSON


9902

atmosphere and of response. So, your Honour, that's theway I approached it, right or wrong, that's what it was, towork at the grassroots with the people.

Q. In the 40 or so years that you had been involved as apastor of the church, have you had to deal with such asituation before?A. I know it sounds like I had a dream run, but I had nothandled a situation of that nature in my pastoralresponsibilities before.

Q. In terms of having to deal with that level of distressand shock and bewilderment within the congregation above?A. Which was generated from a staffer? No, never had Ihad to deal with that.

Q. So, what guidance or training or resources wereavailable to you to assist you as the pastor to deal withthat situation inside the congregation?A. I saw no overt expressions of support in the system,but I'm sure, had I drilled down and pursued, there waspossibly support for me. I had pastoral experience and Iunderstood how to work with situations, but I didn'taccess, and that's a bit of a reflection of our autonomousstructures; we have a commonality of co-ordination, butwhen it comes to the expression of the congregation, it'sautonomous, so we're largely responsible for executingthose things.

Q. Were you aware that there was, inside the fellowshipor under the umbrella of the Assemblies of God at thattime, were you aware that there were resources, be theywritten or personal resources, available to you to assistyou to work with the congregation at that time?A. Your Honour, I was not aware of any expressed definedresource available, but if you just think it through,obviously an organisation as big as we are, there is nodoubt, if you pursue it, you could possibly get that help.

Q. Did you seek that help?A. No, I didn't.

Q. Why was that?A. Well, it was an emerging thing for a start. It was,the first wave is, you know, and then there was a drawn outcourt case presented, I think, for some two years untilthere was the proof of guilt, and so in that there's a

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) G D SWENSON (Mr Beckett)


9903

suspense time, so we're just trying to manage it the bestwe were able, and I think largely we were able to work ourway through overall very positively, albeit people were,[ALD] and the family did feel some difficulties therebut --

Q. It's not their view, is it?A. Their view was, there was some people that gave greatsupport to them and some people didn't know how to connectto them, and I understand that, because there wasn't theformal conclusion at the onset, there was just charges.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Anything arising out of that?

MR BECKETT: No, nothing arising.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: For you, Mr Chowdhury?

MR CHOWDHURY: There is one matter.


MR CHOWDHURY: Q. Were you aware in 2005 there was aninitiative through the church in Queensland with a Mr NeilScott to provide training to pastors in particular in thearea of child abuse and child protection?A. I was in South Australia pastoring a church at thattime, so no.

MR CHOWDHURY: Thank you. Nothing further.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Thank you, pastor, you're excused.Thank you for your attendance.

<THE WITNESS WITHDREW

MR BECKETT: I call, Gary Swenson.

<GARY SWENSON, sworn: [12.46pm]

<EXAMINATION BY MR BECKETT:

MR BECKETT: Q. Sir, I wonder if you could state yourfull name for the Royal Commission?A. Gary David Swenson.

Q. You provided your address to the Royal Commission?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9904

A. That's correct.

Q. Your current occupation is a minister of religion?A. Correct, yes.

Q. You provided a statement to the Royal Commission dated29 September 2014?A. That's right.

Q. Is it true and correct to the best of your knowledge?A. Yes, it is.

MR BECKETT: I tender that.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: 18.0033.

EXHIBIT #18.0033 STATEMENT OF GARY SWENSON DATED 29/09/2014

MR BECKETT: Q. I should have asked you, are there anychanges you wish to make to that statement?A. No.

Q. What is your current role within the ACC?A. My title is the state ministries director.

Q. You're a minister of religion, so are you - I presumethat means you're a pastor with credentials from theAustralian Christian Churches?A. Yes, that's correct.

Q. How long have you been a pastor with the ACC?A. Since 1976.

Q. In 2007 what was the position that you occupied atthat stage?A. 2007 I was state vice-president.

Q. How long were you in that position for?A. Since October 1998.

Q. Until what year?A. Until 2008, October 2008.

Q. Is that when you became the state ministries director?A. From 1 June 2009 I assumed that role full-time, yes.

Q. What's the nature of that position?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9905

A. Nature of that position is one to provide care andsupport to pastors and churches within our movement.

Q. What is the way in which you do that?A. It's varied. I travel constantly throughout thestate, regular phone contact, accept and receive calls,emails, whatever is necessary.

Q. As part of your duties as state ministries director,do you have responsibility with respect to child protectionpolicies of the ACC?A. Not directly, no, that's not directly myresponsibility, no.

Q. If we go back to the charging of Mr Baldwin in 2007.You've heard some evidence today about that particularissue?A. Yes.

Q. As best we can establish, Mr Baldwin was charged bythe police or about 24 May 2007. Do you understand that,that that's the evidence now?A. I've heard that in this Commission. That was not myknowledge before now.

Q. I think you've addressed this in part in yourstatement. When was the first time that you became awarethat Jonathan Baldwin had been charged with child sexualabuse allegations?A. The first time I became personally aware was at thestate executive meeting on 6 December 2007.

Q. You say at paragraph 12 of your statement, and thatwill come up on the screen:

The first time that the Queensland StateExecutive was officially made aware of theJonathan Baldwin matter was when they wereadvised by Pastor Ashley Goode thatJonathan Baldwin had been charged with'assault against a minor'.

You later discovered that the charge was not ofassault but of sexual offences?A. Yes, correct.

Q. Did you speak directly to Pastor Ashley Goode?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9906

A. No, I did not, no.

Q. How was that communicated through to the stateexecutive then?A. My recollection is that that was a phone call fromPastor Goode to our then field officer, former staffmember, who then advised the executive.

Q. You heard the evidence earlier today that Pastor Goodewas contacted by Pastor Peterson because his position -that is Pastor Goode's position, was as the district or theregional superintendent; is that right?A. Correct.

Q. Which is it? Is it district or is it regional, whatwas the correct term in --A. It is now regional, it used to be termed district.

Q. But effectively it is the same position?A. Yes.

Q. Are you able to assist us at all as to the apparentdelay in communicating those criminal charges from Mayuntil December 2007; is that right?A. The only comment I can make is that, certainly thefirst knowledge we had and the advice that we were given,it's been my understanding until this Commission, was thatcharges were not laid until November 2007. Inconversations in 2008 I was given information whichindicated that Baldwin had been questioned by police in Mayor June 2007, but at that point no charges were laid. Ithought that was referred to yesterday also inPastor Lehmann's responses, but the first we were madeaware was definitely in late 2007.

Q. Perhaps I may have misled you slightly with myquestions earlier on. At paragraph 11 of your statementyou say that you.

... recall that allegations againstJonathan Baldwin were first discussed on oraround 13 November 2007.

That's a precise date in November. What causes you tothink that you became aware of the matter at that time?A. When this matter came to my attention in 2011, withthe email, I immediately contacted our state office and

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9907

asked the staff there to provide me with records of everymention of Baldwin. The only mention there was actuallyfrom an invoice from our lawyers at the time in discussionwith the field officer, just said "discussion concerningBaldwin, a Baldwin matter", there was no detail concerningthat. So I assumed that was simply a discussion betweenprobably the field officer and our lawyer.

Q. Let's go back through it. Were you contacted on13 November 2007 and told of the charges against JonathanBaldwin?A. No, I was not.

Q. How do you know - you say the matter was firstdiscussed on or around 13 November 2007 - did somebody tellyou that?A. No, as I explained a moment ago, that informationonly - I was not aware of the 13 November date or norecollection of it until I asked for a search of ourrecords.

Q. And so, you're saying that there was a record?A. Yes.

Q. In preparing this statement for today you looked backonto records and realised that there'd been some contactwith the ACC in November 2007?A. No, I - not in preparation for these proceedings, no.I ascertained that information in October 2011, when wefirst received the email.

Q. When you received the email from [ALD]?A. That's correct, yes.

Q. Thank you for clarifying that. Is there a protocolbetween the ACC and the Queensland Police about thereporting of charges of child sexual abuse against pastors,any pastors, in the ACC?A. Between ACC and the Queensland Police?

Q. Yes?A. No relationship between the police and ACC, no. Imean, we obviously, as has been said before, we have amandatory reporting policy, but I'm not aware of anyrelationships specifically with the Queensland Police.

Q. Are you aware of any steps taken by the state

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9908

executive of the ACC to establish such a protocol betweenthe Queensland Police and the ACC for that information tobe provided to it?A. No, I am not.

Q. One of the key measures within the administrationmanual, the national administration manual, is a process bywhich a pastor's credentials may be suspended. Youunderstand that, don't you?A. Yes.

Q. That can be done by a number of bodies; the stateexecutive is one of those bodies. Is that correct?A. Only the national president or the national executivehave the power, but the recommendation is made from thestate executive, I suspect, yes.

Q. Were you aware of the evidence that was receivedduring the Hillsong part of the Case Study which indicatedthat in urgent situations that, I think that the nationalpresident certainly can take steps to suspend credentialsimmediately?A. I'm aware, not necessarily from the Hillsong case, butI'm aware of that possibility.

Q. Is the same power vested in the president of the stateexecutive of the ACC to your understanding?A. To my understanding, and I may be wrong, to myunderstanding, yes; I mean, if there was a criticallyurgent issue I expect the state president could and wouldtake immediate action.

Q. You'd understand that once somebody has been chargedwith child sexual abuse allegations, it raises thepossibility that there is a risk to children if that personhas contact with children as part of their ministry; youunderstand that?A. Yes.

Q. And that that causes the urgency to consider whetherthe suspension of those credentials might be an appropriatecourse of action to take?A. Yes, that would be fair comment, yes.

Q. Would you also agree that, if there was timelycommunication between the Queensland Police and the ACC,that that would facilitate the consideration of the

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9909

suspension of those credentials?A. I think it would be helpful; in fact, I've even hadthis thought in the last couple of days, it would behelpful to have some protocol between the ACC and thepolice that, in the event, as happened here that we werenot immediately informed, yes, that would be helpful.

Q. After the ACC was informed, and you estimate that thetime was 13 November 2007, it appears that it was not until6 December 2007 that the credential was actually suspended.Do you accept that?A. I accept that. I would simply make the comment that13 November, there is no record of what that specificmatter was about, only a phone conversation with the lawyerby a staff member.

Q. All right.A. But I would accept that it probably was in somemeasure to do with that, but, yes.

Q. Are you aware of any steps taken to establish whetherMr Baldwin, for example, was at that stage ministering tochildren?A. No, at that time we were aware that, when we were madeaware on 6 December, we were also aware that Mr Baldwin wasnot in any active ministry, he had returned, as Iunderstand it, to the Sunshine Coast but was not in anyactive ministry role within ACC.

Q. And then the state executive went ahead and suspendedhis credential?A. Correct.

Q. And that's following the course set out in theadministration manual for pastors?A. That's right, yes.

MR BECKETT: Is that a suitable time, your Honour?

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Yes. We'll take the lunchadjournment now.

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Mr Beckett.

MR BECKETT: Your Honour, just before we resume with

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9910

Pastor Swenson's evidence, I wish to tender a statementthat was provided to the Royal Commission overnight. It'sa statement of Melissa Maynes, dated 15 October 2014. Isee that copies have been handed up to your Honour andCommissioner Atkinson.


MR BECKETT: This goes to an issue that arose yesterday,particularly during the examination of [ALD] and alsoPastor Lehmann, because it relates to communications bythis person, Melissa Maynes, who was then known as MelissaLockwood, concerning her observations of [ALA] andMr Baldwin together.

I understand Mr Kernaghan has some comments to makeabout this document, but at this point I tender thestatement of Ms Maynes dated 15 October 2014.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Do you want to make those comments?I take it, they're not objecting to the tender butcommenting upon the contents; is that right, Mr Kernaghan?

MR KERNAGHAN: Not so much commenting on the contents. Idon't object to the tender of that document.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: I'll mark the document as 18.0034.

EXHIBIT #18.0034 STATEMENT OF MELISSA MAYNES (LOCKWOOD)DATED 15/10/2014

MR KERNAGHAN: My comment is directed at a later documentwhich was tendered in yesterday's proceedings which isexhibit 30, which was represented as an email authored bythe same person who authored the currently tendereddocument.

The observation that I make, and I make it for thebenefit both for the Commission for clarity but also forthose watching and reporting on the proceedings yesterday,is that much of the questioning to which my friend hasreferred was premised on the basis that what was containedin exhibit 30 was indeed the evidence that Ms Lockwoodwould be expected to give. There's no criticism of anyonewho asks questions on that basis from me.

But it is now apparent that Ms Lockwood would not give

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9911

that evidence. She would give the evidence in the formthat she has identified in the statement that's just beentendered, and it is at quite some distance from what iscontained in exhibit 30. That distance is importantbecause it goes to the issue of specifically whatPastor Lehmann, as he then was, knew or was told, and it'sapparent from the materials that have been provided in thetender bundle to the Commission that the principal sourcefor information on that topic has historically beenMs Lockwood. She has now provided some clarification undera jurat in the document that's just been tendered whichfalls well short of what was put to my client yesterday andwhich you heard him make certain denials or disputes aboutthe contents of what he was told.

It's important for fairness to him that it'sunderstood by those watching and reporting, and of courseby the Commission, that some of the propositions put to himyesterday in relation at least to what Ms Lockwood is saidto have told him are not entirely made out as those thingsthat Ms Lockwood herself says she told them.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Yes, and in particular,Mr Kernaghan, I can see paragraph 17 makes clear thatMs Lockwood now states:

I do not believe that I specificallyinformed Pastor Lehmann of the incidentregarding the sleepover at the churchbecause I had previously informed him of myconcerns and he had taken no action.

MR KERNAGHAN: Yes, and the previous information providedis detailed in the newly tendered exhibit, and it too isquite different to that represented in the email that wastendered yesterday as exhibit 30.


MR KERNAGHAN: That's of significance, obviously, from thepoint of view of fairness.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: All right, and no doubt will be thesubject of submissions on the way in which the Commissionshould view the evidence on this point.

MR KERNAGHAN: Thank you, your Honour, Commissioner.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9912

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Thanks, Mr Beckett.MR BECKETT: Q. Pastor Swenson, I think just beforelunch we were at the point at which the matter concerningthe suspension of Mr Baldwin's credential was put beforethe state executive?A. Yes.

Q. And you were present at that meeting?A. Yes.

Q. The determination was made to suspend his credentialin line with the administration manual?A. Correct.

Q. I take it that, at the date of that particularmeeting, 6 December, you were aware that charges had beenlaid against Mr Baldwin; is that right?A. That's correct, yes.

Q. In any event, what was the process at that stage, in2007, as to the monitoring or keeping in touch with whatthe criminal justice process was with respect to acredentialed minister?A. I am not quite sure - all I'll say is, the CriminalCode is very broad.

Q. Perhaps I'll put that in a more precise way. You'reaware there were criminal proceedings underway with respectto Mr Baldwin?A. Yes.

Q. You're aware that his credential had been suspended?A. Yes.

Q. And that the process involved, at the ACC level, wasthat if he was ultimately convicted of those charges, thenthe next process was that his credential would be withdrawnon a permanent basis?A. That's correct.

Q. As a result there was a reason for the ACC to bemonitoring or keeping abreast of developments at thecriminal proceedings level so that it could take that stepif need be; was that right?A. That would be correct, if he was wishing to pursue -if he had been cleared of the charges and wished the

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9913

reinstatement of his credential, and that really was hisprerogative, not ours.

Q. But in terms of the former, that is to say, if he wasconvicted, then you would want to know about the convictiontaking place?A. We would want know, correct, yes.

Q. I think you agreed with me earlier that there was noprotocol between the ACC and the Queensland Police toassist you with that?A. Yes.

Q. And I presume that includes the Queensland DPP?A. That's correct.

Q. What step, if any, was taken at that stage by the ACCto make sure that it was advised of the outcome of thecriminal proceedings?A. There were no specific steps taken regarding thatparticular matter, no.

Q. We haven't been provided with any documentation thatwent from the ACC to the pastor at the local church, thatis, Pastor Peterson, by that stage?A. No.

Q. So there was no process by which you would write tothe pastor and say, "If you become aware of the outcome ofthe criminal proceedings, then can you please advise us"?A. No.

Q. Similarly, you didn't write to the police or the DPPto say, "We have a disciplinary process engaged as a resultof these charges, can you please provide us withnotification as to the result of the criminal proceedings"?A. No, we did not.

Q. We understand from your statement, and I think fromother statements as well, that the conviction whichoccurred in 2009 just simply didn't come to the attentionof the state executive of the ACC; is that right?A. That's correct.

Q. Would you accept that, as a result of not taking thosesteps to communicate with the police, with the DPP or withthe local church, the ACC had not set in place a process by

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9914

which it could obtain that information?A. Certainly whether those were the appropriate steps ornot, but they could have been, but certainly there were nosteps put in place by which we would obtain thatinformation, that's correct.

Q. Would you accept that as a failing of the ACC?A. I would accept I don't - again, I wouldn't necessarilysay it was those specific steps, they may have been ofhelp. It was a failing that it did not remain on theagenda and was followed through which I alluded to in myreport.

Q. If it had remained on the agenda what would havehappened?A. Had it remained on the agenda, then the next timethere was a state executive meeting then obviously thequestion would have been asked, "What's happened with thiscase?" And so ultimately two years later --

Q. If that had been the case, it was sitting on theagenda, who was charged with the responsibility forfollowing up that particular matter?A. Well, it didn't remain on the agenda, so unfortunately- well, nobody was charged. Had that been the case, Ipresume somebody would have been appointed to follow itthrough, yes.

Q. So that particular part of the way in which thesematters have been handled has now changed, as I understandit?A. Yes, I understand so.

Q. If that's the case, who would be allocated today thattask given those circumstances arising again?A. I probably can't answer that. That would be adecision for the state executive at the time, but I have nodoubt that a particular individual would --

Q. We can ask Pastor Hunt that. You are also aware bythe time of the removal of the credential, first of allthat not only was the pastor accused of child sexual abuse,but it was of a member of his congregation. You understoodthat, didn't you?A. Initially on 6 December, the date of the executivemeeting?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9915

Q. Yes.A. We were not initially aware. Our initial advice wassimply that he had been charged with assault of a minor.Subsequently, and I really can't tell you when, butsubsequently we did discover it was not just, commonassault, it was a far serious nature of a sexual assault.

Q. Was that known by 6 December?A. No, to my understanding, not.

Q. What steps were taken by you or the state executive todetermine what the nature of the child sexual abuse andparticularly the charges were?A. We didn't take any particular steps to myrecollection. That in itself was serious enough to suspendthe credential, as it was in the hands of obviously theauthorities.

Q. I understand that. You'd understand that first of allthese were very serious charges made against a practisingminister of the Assemblies of God, as it then was, I think?A. Yes.

Q. That's right, isn't it?A. Yes.

Q. The allegations involved sexual abuse of a child?A. Yes.

Q. And that that was likely to have ramifications notonly for the church but also for the Assemblies of God as amovement?A. Certainly for the local church. For the movement, ourresponsibility given the autonomy of the local church, ourresponsibility was to make sure that we dealt with thecredentialed minister appropriately, suspending hiscredential.

Q. Did your responsibility extend to offering or takingany responsibility for the victim of such a crime?A. Again I would say that, from the executive point ofview and our movement, and it has been referred to herepreviously, our local churches are autonomous. Ourconnection, we have no jurisdiction, no right or access tomembers or attendees of local churches other than byspecific provisions of their local church constitution,whereby we may be invited in --

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9916

Q. Sir, I understand that and I think we've heard that anumber of times during this particular Case Study. You'daccept, first of all, that the proper conduct ofcredentialed ministers is a matter for the Assemblies ofGod, is it not?A. That's correct.

Q. And it's something that is considered by both thestate and national executives as matters of utmostimportance?A. Correct, yes.

Q. That is because it is those bodies that effect theprovision of credentials as well as the withdrawal ofcredentials?A. Yes.

Q. In this case you had a credentialed minister who hadbeen accused of child sexual abuse, and are you saying thatthe responsibility of the Assemblies of God extended onlytowards the credentialing and not towards the victim ofthat abuse?A. My understanding would be, we would certainly want toexercise a pastoral responsibility and a careresponsibility and support to the victims. Obviously thatwas not possible when we were advised of the charges beinglaid because it was in the hands of the police, and thematter was to be determined.

Q. Let me just take you to that. First of all, do youaccept that there appears to have been no contact betweenthe ACC and [ALA] during the period between the charge andthe conviction?A. Correct.

Q. That's correct, isn't it?A. Yes.

Q. Similarly, there was no contact by the ACC orAssemblies of God and [ALA]'s family during that period aswell?A. That's correct.

Q. Am I right in saying that no pastoral support wasprovided to those people during that entire period?A. From ACC as a movement?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9917

Q. Yes.A. That's right.

Q. Do I also take it that no attempt was made to advise[ALA] or his family that there was a process underway underthe administration manual to consider the credentials ofMr Baldwin?A. No, we would have assumed that the local church wouldhave advised them of that process, because they - the localchurch would deal with --

Q. What steps were taken in December 2007 to tell thelocal church that Mr Baldwin's credentials were removed?A. No steps were taken by the movement; in fact, he wasnot --

Q. How would --

MR CHOWDHURY: I'd ask if the witness could continue.

MR BECKETT: I apologise, please continue.A. He was not a pastor in that church at that time andso, no, no steps were taken by the movement.

Q. How was that pastor going to be able to advise thefamily of the fact that Mr Baldwin's credentials had beenremoved?A. It would be common process - I mean, obviously in alocal church, in this particular case he was no longerthere, and therefore it would be the local churchresponsibility and it would be common fact under normalcircumstances he was dismissed, no longer there.

Q. You knew in this case that he'd actually moved on toanother church?A. Yes.

Q. It just appears to be the case that no attempt wasmade to communicate with the victim or with the victim'sfamily as to what process was going on within the ACC todiscipline this man?A. We only suspend the credential; at that point he wasnot proven guilty, he was obviously charged.

Q. But the process was a serious process?A. Yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9918

Q. You'd removed this man's credentials, hadn't you?A. It was suspended pending the outcome of the trial.

Q. In terms of the action of the ACC, it was a good newssorry, if I can say that. In other words, as soon as youwere aware of the matter, as I understand it at least, youtook action to suspend his credential?A. Correct, yes.

Q. What's wrong with passing that information on to thosepeople who were aggrieved by the actions of a pastor of theACC?A. There would certainly be nothing wrong with that,absolutely.

Q. You'd say in fact it would be desirable to tell thosepeople --A. Yes.

Q. -- what was going on with this particular pastor?A. I would accept it would be helpful that thatcommunication comes from somewhere, either the local churchor, if required, the movement, yes.

Q. We know that Pastor Peterson was providing pastoralsupport to [ALA]'s parents, but had you established oranybody else at the ACC established that that pastoralassistance was being provided by him during that periodbetween charge and conviction?A. Sorry, between charge and the?

Q. Conviction.A. Oh, the conviction, no.

Q. You say that you recognise that there was a pastoralobligation towards the victim and the victim's family,recognised at the ACC level. It appears to be the casethat that obligation was not discharged during that periodof time because there was simply no contact with thosepeople?A. Correct.

Q. Is that part of the separation, if you like, betweenthe ACC and autonomous churches that really, it's a matterfor them and the ACC is not going to get involved really?A. The heart intent of the movement would certainly be to

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9919

ensure that victims are cared for. We would normallyexpect that to happen at the local church level, yes.

Q. Then we come to the conviction in 2009. In March 2009he's convicted and sentenced at that stage. I'll startwith you. Were you aware in March 2009 that he had beenconvicted?A. No, I was not. In fact personally I was on longservice leave; I was away, yes.

Q. Are you aware of anybody else at the state executivelevel, or anybody at the state office, who became aware ofthat particular conviction?A. No, absolutely not.

Q. Do you accept that the failure to set things in placeso that you could receive information about the convictionhad meant that the state office just simply missed thatparticular part of the process?A. Yes, I acknowledge that and in fact that was the basisof the recommendation that I made in my report to thenational executive, yes.

Q. One of the things that happened as a result of that isthat the state executive did not consider, certainlyin March 2009, that his credentials should be withdrawn ona permanent basis?A. No, it had been surrendered and obviously it - thatwas its state, yes.

Q. Is the process not that, whether or not it's beensurrendered, that it will be cancelled as a result of thatconviction?A. Yes. In fact, if I could make comment just on thecredential process: Mr Baldwin held a probationaryminister's credential, and the fact is that even in normalcircumstances, if someone is inactive in ministry, thatcredential will lapse automatically at the end of thatcalendar year. So, he returned, as I understand, concludedhis role in the Gold Coast at the end of 2006 somewhere,returned to the Sunshine Coast. His credential undernormal circumstances would have lapsed by the end ofthat year anyway, yes.

Q. What's the process then in that sort of circumstanceto stop him from waiting a year or two and then re-applyingfor a further credential?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9920

A. If he has been convicted - sorry, if he had beenconvicted?

Q. Yes.A. Of those offences he will never - very clear under ourcode of conduct, that --

Q. So he puts in an application, let me give you anexample: If he puts in an application a year or two afterhe's been convicted of these child sexual abuseallegations, he then fills out the relevant form, Ipresume, sends it into the state office, what's the processwhich would stop him from being granted that credential?A. First I'd make comment that, for someone to apply fora credential, they actually have to be invited by a seniorpastor to do that, and no senior pastor, knowing thehistory, would do that.

Q. So you think it's unlikely that that would occur?A. And even if it did occur and he somehow submitted anapplication, there is no way in the world he would ever begranted credential.

Q. That's because in the administration manual it makesclear that if you have been found to be, a convictedpaedophile for example, that you will be never be able toadminister again within the ACC movement?A. Correct, that's right.

Q. Did you ever explain that to [ALA] or to his parents?A. I explained that when I met with them in Broome in2012, yes.

Q. That was some three years after the conviction; isthat right?A. Yes.

Q. You'd accept that, in 2009, if you'd been aware of theconviction, that you or somebody else from the stateexecutive could have explained that part of thedisciplinary process to them?A. Would have been happy to do that, yes, had we beenaware.

Q. We know that the perpetrator of the child sexual abusewas a youth pastor within a then Assemblies of God church;we know that, don't we?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9921

A. Yes, we do.

Q. And you agree with that?A. Yes.

Q. That the victim was attending and being ministered toby that youth minister and by the church on the SunshineCoast, that's correct, isn't it?A. Yes.

Q. And that that church was an affiliated member of theAssemblies of God at that stage?A. Yes.

Q. By March 2009 he had been convicted. Why was it notacknowledged by the ACC, by its senior members at the statelevel first of all, that such abuse had occurred?A. Simply because we were not aware. We were not aware.

Q. It's simply the case that really not until 2011 didyou become aware of the conviction?A. That's correct.

Q. Can I also ask you in this way, certainly if we goback to 2007, the decision to suspend, and you were awareof the criminal convictions at that time. One of thematters I wanted to ask you about, is that delay between2007 and 2012 in contact between the ACC and the parentsand the victim appears to have been because at the start ofthe process in 2007 it appears that nobody was allocatedthe job of keeping up-to-date with the criminal proceedingsand the pastoral needs of both [ALA] and his parents. Isthat right?A. Yes, correct.

Q. There was no process in place to ensure that the needsof those people were recognised throughout that process; isthat correct?A. That would be correct, yes.

Q. I'll just show you a document, tender bundle 10, ifthat could come up on the screen please. Sir, this is notan email that was sent to you, it was sent toPastor Peterson and there's been some evidence about thistoday. You're aware of the email, are you?A. Yes, I've seen it here.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9922

Q. In 2009 did you receive a copy of this email?A. No, we did not.

Q. If we go over to tab 11, we have a further email fromPastor Peterson to a number of people, including thedirectors of the Sunshine Coast Church. If we scroll downthere, we see and we heard evidence earlier this morningfrom Pastor Peterson that he'd contacted somebody calledSteve at ACS. Are you able to assist us with that at all?Was there in 2009 somebody at ACS called Steve that mayhave been involved in these matters?A. I can't comment with regard to 2009. I had contactwith a Steve in 2011, after the email was sent, yes.

Q. Is it likely that that's correct, that the Steve isactually somebody at ACS and not at ACC?A. It definitely wasn't ACC I can tell you that. I canonly assume that there was a Steve at ACS back then.

Q. You were not aware in 2009 of any approaches by [ALA]or his parents to the ACC expressing concerns about thelack of involvement of the ACC?A. No, definitely not.

Q. Then if we go ahead to 11 October 2011, first of alldo I take it that there was to your knowledge nocommunication between the ACC and [ALA] or his parentsduring that time?A. That's right.

Q. There's a copy of the email of 11 October at tab 17,if that could come up. First of all, we see that this is alater email, the first one is dated earlier in the morningof 11 October and this is an email from yourself to JohnHunt, was he the state president at that stage?A. Yes, he was.

Q. You're bringing to his attention the fact that you'dreceived a copy of the email from [ALA]'s father?A. Yes, forwarded to me through another party as I referto there.

Q. You're aware of the contents of the email which isbeing forwarded. If we scroll down, please.A. Yes, I am aware, yes.

Q. This is the email entitled, "A cry from a father's

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9923

heart, for his sons. Can you help?" Do you see that?A. Yes, I do, yes.

Q. I don't need to go to the detail of it, but certainlythis is a heartbreaking email for anybody to receive, is itnot?A. It is.

Q. He recounts there the fact of the abuse of his son atthe hands of a pastor of an Assemblies of God church?A. Correct.

Q. And the fact that the process that was taking placefour years after the conviction was taking its tollcertainly on [ALA] and his family?A. Yes.

Q. And that included, I think, the compensation processwhich was in full swing at that time?A. Sorry, are you saying the email included - I'm notsure, was that reference in the email?

Q. If we scroll down to the paragraph that begins, "Inall of this". Do you see there at that last paragraph onthat page:

In all of this, where is the churchorganisation, the AOG that allowed this manto do what he did? Hiding behind aninsurance company!

Do you see that?A. Yes, I see that.

Q. You knew after you read this email that there was someform of claim process currently being undertaken withrespect to --A. No - well, no, I did not know there was a claimcertainly when I received this email, and didn'tnecessarily conclude from that statement that there was,because again any insurance claim would be a matter for thelocal church, yes.

Q. We'll just scroll down. You'll see that there werefurther references there in that paragraph still:

The church seems content to let the

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9924

insurers try to minimise the exposure anddamage to the organisation's reputation.

Do you see that?A. Yes, I see that, yes.

Q. If we scroll down two paragraphs further:

Now we find that the church insurancecompany seem content to let more monthsdrag by while they do their thing.


Q. And then the mediation is some period off after that,and that there's a rhetorical question:

Who ... [knows] how much longer thistorment could continue?


Q. You know from that that, irrespective of whether itwas the AOG's insurance or not, that there was a process ofconsideration of a claim by [ALA]?A. From that, yes, you would assume there was somethinghappening, yes.

Q. You referred that matter to Mr Hunt?A. Correct.

Q. If we go back to tender bundle 13, we have an emailslightly out of date order, 12 October 2011, so the dayafter the e-mail which had been sent by [ALA]'s father.You're familiar with this email from Juanita Foote?A. Yes, I am.

Q. She responds to Mr [ALD], saying that:

We recently received the below email and weare not sure if this is a legitimate emailor spam.

Do you see that?A. Yes, I do.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9925

Q. You hadn't responded that way, you thought it was ofconcern?A. That's right, yes.

Q. And you referred it to the state president?A. Yes, I did.

Q. Were you aware that Ms Foote had sent this emaildirectly to Mr [ALD]?A. I was aware that there would be a response to [ALD],yes.

Q. It's reasonable, is it not, that on reading Mr [ALD]'semail of 11 October, that it set out that there'd beenclearly a long process in which, for example charges hadbeen laid and there had been a criminal conviction; that'sright?A. Yes.

Q. It's also clear that there was a process ofcounselling after that and some considerable painexperienced, not only by [ALA] but also by his family?A. Yes.

Q. And that there was a difficult insurance processgoing, as far as they were concerned, through them?A. Yes.

Q. And you also understood from the email that noapproach had been made from the Assemblies of God to thefamily or to [ALA]?A. That's right, yes. In fact --

Q. With that in mind, if you just look at Ms Foote'semail, can you see that, particularly that first paragraphmight be construed as insensitive or cruel perhaps?A. It could be construed as that, I understand, but inthe context of the whole email, and in the context that itwas a mass email sent obviously to many, many people. Butno-one, certainly at the state executive level, wasincluded on that list. That raised questions about thevalidity of the email, if somebody was genuinely reachingout to the movement --

Q. Didn't you see, having read that email, that thesubstance, the content of that email, provided the

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9926

legitimacy that you're talking about now?A. Not in itself, no. In fact, that was the first - Iwas aware of obviously the name Baldwin and what hadhappened there, the credential suspension; that was thefirst time that I personally was even aware of the name ofthe victim and his family.

Q. You say at paragraph 24 of your statement, I'll justhave that brought up:

I forwarded the email to the StateExecutive to bring the email to theirattention. I recall that the StateExecutive responded to the emailimmediately.

A. Yes.

Q. Do you see that? Is that a reference to Ms Foote'semail to him?A. That's correct, yes.

Q. Then:

However, we received no response from[ALD].


Q. An available way to read your comment there atparagraph 24 is that effectively the father didn't take anysteps to follow-up on this clearly very emotional emailthat had been written to a large number of people?A. That's true. I mean, no steps were taken tofollow-up. Again, I'd reiterate that the --

Q. No, what I'm asking you is in fact about theinterpretation of what you're saying. There's an impliedcriticism there that the father didn't take appropriatesteps to follow-up with the AOG, notwithstanding he'd sentthis significant email of 11 October 2011?A. The context of that is simply that, there was aquestion as to the veracity of that email, because nobody,as I said, nobody at a state executive level was on thatmailing list, which I guess waved a flag, well, is thisreal? Then --

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9927

Q. Well, sir, why didn't you write?

MR CHOWDHURY: Sorry, can I object? He was stillanswering.

MR BECKETT: Yes.

Q. I apologise.A. Thank you. So, hence I drew it to the attention ofour state president, and because there was concern thiscould be very real and very serious, that that email wassent from Juanita Foote. I agree, as you've suggested,maybe it could have been seen a little callous, but againthere was a clear opportunity there when contact had notbeen made with the state executive, again the opportunityand the offer was put there, "Please contact us."

Q. You subsequently received some advice, I think fromACS, about this matter; is that correct?A. Correct, yes.

Q. Tender bundle 15, if that could come up please. Do Itake it that the matter was raised with somebody by thename of Stephen Watson who was an insurance claims officerat ACS?A. Yes.

Q. If you have a look at that email, it indicates thathe'd been in contact with the father and the son, and thatthere was a current claim for compensation beingconsidered. Do you see that?A. Yes, I do.

Q. Then if we scroll down further we'll see that:

I suspect that this feeling of abandonmentmay have started with support for JonathanBaldwin being provided by hisfather-in-law, the pastor of thechurch ... This sense of abandonment mayhave been exacerbated when no officialcontact or support was received from theACC or from the local church ...


12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9928

Q. "... except from the current pastor". So it appearsthat Mr Watson understood what was being said to him by thefather?A. Yes.

Q. But at that stage neither you nor anyone from thestate executive had spoken to the father, had they?A. No.

Q. Effectively you'd been referred to the insurer and youwere seeking advice from the ACS?A. We were asking where that was at, and helping to, Iguess, confirm the veracity of the email contents whichalluded to an insurance claim. Obviously I became awarethen, was advised by ACS, that there was mediation inprocess, yes.

Q. But he goes on and says:

In order to rectify this apparent lack ofsupport ...

So he was accepting what Mr [ALD] had said, wasn't he?A. Yes.

Q. And he was confirming the veracity of the content ofthat email?A. Correct.

Q. And he says:

... I suggest that it might be appropriatefor the ACC Queensland to respond to[ALD]'s email. The response would ideallyinclude an acceptance of the facts as theystand, that [ALA] has been the victim of anunconscionable crime. A simple explanationshould detail what policies the ACC has inplace to deal with these situations, inthat credentials are immediately suspendedupon presentation of acquisitions, and theyare permanently suspended following proofof those accusations being established.


12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9929

Q.The ACC may wish to acknowledge itscommitment to [ALA] and the family, as wellas to other congregations around Australia,particularly children and youth, in thepolicies it has in place to protect themwherever possible.


Q. And that's entirely reasonable, isn't it?A. Yes, it is.

Q. In October 2011 were those steps taken andcommunicated to the parents?A. No, not in October 2011, no.

Q. Were such actions taken to communicate those matterswith [ALA] himself?A. Not at that point, no.

Q. In fact, if I can short-circuit the process, it isreally not until you go and visit them in WA in July 2012that steps were taken to outline those matters contained inthis email of October 2011?A. That's correct, and there's a reason why that was thecase.

Q. Yes, please, what is the reason why?A. The reason was that the advice was sound, however Ifelt an email or a letter was too clinical and cold and notenough. I felt that, obviously once things were verified,I felt that the family deserved more than just an email ora letter. Obviously, this was discussed at state andnational level, I felt they deserved the right to be ableto talk to somebody personally.

Q. Why didn't you pick up the phone and speak to Mr [ALD]and say, "Look, there's been a complete breakdown incommunications, I'm very sorry", and then put those mattersin the phone call to him directly?A. At that point I didn't have his - we didn't have hiscontact details --

Q. Did you send him an email and ask for them?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9930

A. -- other than the email, which we asked for thosedetails which were not forthcoming.

Q. Where is the email?A. Sorry?

Q. Are you saying that there is an email in which youasked for those contact details and were not provided withthem?A. The initial email from Juanita Foote asking forcontact from [ALD], and that would have given us thecontact details for the family.

Q. Are you saying that the email from Ms Foote occurredafter you received this information from Mr Watson?A. No, not to my knowledge and recollection, no.

Q. Did you see the communication from Ms Foote and thinkto yourself, "Gee, we haven't handled that too well"?A. No, I didn't see the communication from Ms Foote butobviously it was authorised to be sent from our stateoffice, yes.

Q. Then there seems to be a further delay, there's somecontact. If we go to tender bundle 18, there's furthercontact this time with the mother, starting on 5 Aprilthrough to 19 April, where she reaches out and says what'shappening with this matter.A. Yes.

Q. If we can just short circuit, she says amongst otherthings - Ringtail 87 - where she says:

Thank you so much for your phone callyesterday, followed by your email, I hadall but given up on hearing fromPastor Wayne Alcorn. I am very mystifiedthat you are not aware of this case, as ittook place so close to Brisbane.


Q. This kicks off a process which ends in you visitingthem in WA in July; is that right?A. Or August, yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9931

Q. Effectively, notwithstanding the cry from the heartfrom the father in October, it appears that all thatoccurred was that Ms Foote's email went to the family?A. Yes.

Q. And nothing further happened until the mother madefurther contact --A. Correct.

Q. -- in April 2012. You went up to WA and you met withthe family in, I think you said August 2012?A. Yes.

Q. You provided them with a number of apologies, in termsof the way that the ACC and the Assemblies of God hadhandled the matter; is that correct?A. Yes.

Q. They appeared to be happy with that and sent youtexts?A. That's correct, yes.

Q. Did at any stage you write to them after that and putthose matters formally in some form of letter, to advisethem of the things that Mr Watson had suggested you advisethem in 2011?A. No, not in a formal letter, no, no.

Q. You didn't think that that was appropriate?A. I guess I had seen the letter in the light of beingsomething cold and clinical, I had followed through thecourse of action to meet with them personally, hadexpressed those sentiments and thoughts to them veryclearly at a personal level. So, no, there was no formalletter to follow-up afterwards.

Q. After that meeting in November 2012 [ALA] contactedyou and sought further counselling sessions from the AOG?A. That's correct.

Q. And you agreed to provide those?A. Yes.

Q. Are they generally available for somebody who hassuffered from child sexual abuse in a church of theAssemblies of God or the ACC?A. They would be, obviously this is a very rare

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9932

occurrence, but yes, we would certainly make thatavailable. First port of call obviously would be the localchurch. But, yes, if that's not possible from there, thenfrom a movement perspective, yes, we'd want to make surethat adequate support and care was provided, yes.

Q. In your report that was given to the state executive,and you've excerpted some parts of it in your statement,and I'll go to your statement first, if we can, atparagraph 39. You indicate there first of all that anumber of issues and failures were identified by you inthat report; is that right?A. Correct.

Q. One of those issues was, you say at point 1 there:

A failure by Senior Pastor Ian Lehmann toinform anyone or take any action whenserious concerns were made to him, becauseof a conflict of interest being thatJonathan Baldwin was his ... son-in-law.


Q. At the time that the abuse and suspicions of abusewere coming forward, that was the period 2004 -2006; youunderstand that?A. Yes.

Q. Was there any conflict of interest policy in place atthe Assemblies of God or the ACC?A. In regard to what specifically?

Q. In regard to making decisions where a senior pastor ofa church had a conflict in the sense that it related tosomething concerning a benefit that may have been providedto a relative, for example?A. Most - and things to do with conflict of interestgenerally will be part of local church policy and local -it's for the board of the local church to put in place thenecessary governance documents for that local church,including conflict of interest issues.

Q. Do I take it from that, that there was no policyrecommended about conflict of interest from the ACC statelevel?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9933

A. Not specifically, not that I'm aware of.

Q. You go on, if we go over the page there --A. Sorry, I would make this comment, if I think thatthrough.

Q. Please, you want to continue that answer, yes.A. There certainly would have been advice in boardtraining seminars that were conducted by our movement ingeneral terms about conflict of interest, yes. So, whilstit's the responsibility of the local church to put that inplace, certainly our pastors would be advised to make surethat those appropriate regulations or whatever are put inplace, guidelines are put in place for the local church.

Q. Do you recall a specific document that includes that?A. No, I can't, I'm sorry.

Q. Then if we go further:

Additionally, I understand that JonathanBaldwin was arrested by Police in June 2007... Again, no report of this arrest wasmade to the ACC State Executive, either byJonathan Baldwin or Pastor Ian Lehmann andaction was therefore unable to be taken.


Q. There's an indication there that you are beingcritical of those people, Jonathan Baldwin andPastor Lehmann, for not alerting the state executive; isthat reasonable?A. Yes.

Q. Do you not consider that it was in fact the ACC whohad the responsibility for monitoring such mattersconcerning both the charging and the conviction ofMr Baldwin?A. No, because I'm not sure how it would be reasonablypossible to monitor everything that happens in everybody'slife. We have a clear -- sorry.

Q. Yes, please continue.A. We have it very clearly spelt out in ouradministration manual the responsibility upon a pastor to

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9934

advise obviously, if he is convicted.Q. So there's an obligation in the administration manualfor the pastor concerned to advise?A. Yes, otherwise how else are we to know, the executiveto know, unless they were advised.

Q. Two things. Certainly I understand what you're sayingin terms of a charge, but I think you agreed with meearlier there's no agreement or protocol with theQueensland Police or the DPP to communicate that sort ofinformation to you?A. True.

Q. I think you accepted that that's an available avenuefor you and the ACC to pursue?A. Certainly to explore.

Q. You knew you were aware of charges being laid at anearly point --A. Yes.

Q. -- in 2007, and I think you accepted from me earlierthat there was a failure of the ACC to monitor thosecharges to the extent of making it known to those with theinformation that they could tell you when a conviction oran acquittal was recorded?A. Yes.

Q. Following your report, was any review made of thestate ACC policies with respect to what had happened at theSunshine Coast Church with Mr Baldwin and his abuse of[ALA]?A. I know the recommendation was accepted, yes.

Q. That recommendation was to keep --A. The matter on the state executive agenda.

Q. On the agenda?A. Yes, until the matter was resolved.

Q. Sorry, I should have explained it morecomprehensively. I want to move to a slightly differentmatter, and that is, you understand in this case, forexample, that for a considerable period Pastor Ian Lehmannappears to have not reported allegations, suspicions ofchild sexual abuse, to either the Department of ChildProtection or to the police. Do you understand that?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9935

A. Yes.

MR KERNAGHAN: I object to that. I'd ask my friend toparticularise which period he is referring to. If myfriend is referring to the post 2006 period, or if he'sreferring to the 2004-2006 period when Pastor Lehmann hadresponsibilities? Because obviously, it's of someimportance.

MR BECKETT: Yes, I'll clarify that.

Q. I'm talking about the 2004-2006 period?

MR KERNAGHAN: Well, then I maintain my objection becausethere's no evidence in support of the contention that'sbeen put as the premise of the question. If it is put thathe did not communicate his concerns as to an intenserelationship, then I have no objection to that, I couldhave no objection to that. But if my friend is putting aspecific complaint to Pastor Lehmann of sexual abuse, Iwould ask where is the evidence in support of thecontention that Pastor Lehmann received such a complaint?

MR BECKETT: I'll put it this way:

Q. Sir, did you understand that Pastor Lehmann had beenprovided with evidence, either through seeing it himself orfrom other people at the Sunshine Coast Church, that therewas a high degree of favouritism shown to [ALA]? Did youunderstand that first?A. My only understanding of those matters was from myconversations with the family, with [ALD] and the family.

Q. Let me put the scenario to you, first of all thatthere was a high degree of favouritism --A. Can I ask where that terminology, I don't think I usethat terminology, do I? No.

Q. I'm not saying you did.A. Sorry.

Q. I'm saying that, did you become aware that there werea number of matters known or put to Pastor Lehmannconcerning his interaction with [ALA], and I'll go throughthem. First of all, there was a high degree offavouritism; there was accompanying or riding in a car with[ALA] on a number of occasions; there was [ALA] visiting

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9936

the youth pastor at the Gold Coast after 2005; and therewere a number of communications about favouritism fromsenior members of the Sunshine Coast Church, including thepurchase of some drumsticks as a gift for this young man;and the provision of numerous awards to him. Did you cometo know about that material at some stage?A. I did not come to know about many of the specificinstances. There was general conversation with [ALA]'sfamily concerning those issues, but I don't recollect thatsome of the specific ones were raised - some were, somewere not.

Q. You understood that the child sexual abuse occurredduring a time when Pastor Lehmann was the pastor at thechurch?A. Yes.

Q. Did you come to a view as to whether he was aware ofthat abuse or suspected such abuse or should have suspectedsuch abuse?A. Based on my conversation with the family, yes.

MR KERNAGHAN: I object, your Honour. I'm not sure thebasis upon which my friend asks that question of thiswitness, given what this witness has already told theCommission is his source of the information about whatPastor Lehmann was told and knew.

It's a question that invites speculation on the partof this witness which is of such loose quality that itcouldn't be of assistance to the Commission, in myrespectful submission.

It would be different if this witness had receivedthat information from a more direct source, or that theinformation was more particular, but my friend has justtaken the witness through a number of instances that do notamount to child sexual abuse and then has essentiallyinvited the witness to join him in a logical leap, andthat's the objection that I make.

MR BECKETT: The question's been answered.

Q. But what I wanted to establish next was what he wastold, that is, what this witness was told by the familyabout Pastor Lehmann's involvement, if anything, inknowledge of or the abuse that occurred at the church?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9937

A. In general terms my recollection would be, as I said,I don't recall some of the specific things, like drumsticksor visits to the Gold Coast, I have no recollection ofbeing told about those. I certainly was told they hadadvised me that concerns had been reported toPastor Lehmann regarding the behaviour of Baldwin toward[ALA], and related one or two of the incidents, closeddoors, and so on.

MR KERNAGHAN: Again I object.

MR BECKETT: Well, the evidence has been given.

MR KERNAGHAN: It's quite unfair, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Mr Kernaghan, I understand yourobjection. I think the evidence, what conclusions can bedrawn from this evidence are limited based on yourobjection, but I think Mr Beckett is going somewhere elsewith respect to his examination of this witness. Iunderstand your concern.

MR KERNAGHAN: Yes, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: It's based around the limits of whatconclusions can be drawn from this evidence, but just bearwith the process for a moment.

MR KERNAGHAN: May it please, your Honour.

MR BECKETT: I'll be quite clear about where I'm going.

Q. Essentially I'm asking you, sir, what you knew aboutwhat had a happened at the Sunshine Coast Church and whatthe ACC did as a result of that knowledge. Do youunderstand that?A. I understand that.

Q. I think you've indicated that the parents hadexpressed to you some concerns about knowledge beingprovided to Pastor Lehmann; is that right?A. Yes.

Q. And that he had not done anything, if I can use thatgenerally; is that what they said to you?A. That would be correct, yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9938

Q. Did you form an opinion as to whether Pastor Lehmannhad failed in his duty as a senior pastor of a church totake action upon those communications?A. Based on the fact that a conviction had been recorded,and this was post fact. Yes, I did form the opinion basedon their conversation with me that Pastor Lehmann had beennegligent.

Q. What steps, if any, were taken to review matters atthat particular church to ensure that in future suchfailures or such negligence did not occur?A. Well, again, we don't have the ability to be involvedin the local church matters on their own; it's theresponsibility of the local church. We would certainlymake sure in terms of pastor or leaders, I mean the churchwas under new leadership by then, and of course the familyhad been very forthcoming in their appreciation ofPastor Peterson, the then pastor, so we had no ongoingconcerns. This related specifically to that particularsituation and I pointed out in my report that there weresome particular peculiarities with this case which werevery unusual.

Q. Did you or anybody else at the state executive to yourknowledge conduct a review of the child protection policiesadopted by this particular church?A. Not of that particular church, no.

Q. Given that there appeared to be some failings of thesenior pastor that was there, was it not logical to have alook at what they were doing, what the church was doing doguard against child abuse within the church?A. As a movement we have, I think, taken steps to doeverything we can to educate and encourage our pastors toput in place appropriate steps and appropriate policies. Ican enlarge on that if you wish, but there's an expectationupon our pastors to avail themselves of that, they arestrongly encouraged, and adequate, in fact more thanadequate opportunities are provided through various ways.

Q. You heard Pastor Lehmann's evidence yesterday Ipresume?A. Yes, I did.

Q. And also Pastor Peterson's evidence today?A. Yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9939

Q. We appear to have two pastors, neither of whom availedthemselves of that detailed material that's provided at thestate executive level; would you agree with that summary ofthe evidence?A. Yes.

Q. Do you see that there seems to be a gap, a problem atthat stage, in terms of the implementation of these verydetailed policies that the state has when it comes to thelocal level; do you see that?A. I certainly see that, yes.

Q. And the state has taken the step of providing thesevery detailed policies?A. Yes.

Q. And also provides assistance where needed?A. Yes.

Q. Where approached by a church for that to occur?A. Yes.

Q. But it appears at the next level down, at the churchlevel, those matters don't seem to be making their waythrough to those at the frontline, those who are chargedwith looking after and dealing with child protectionissues?A. I would accept that in some cases that certainly wouldbe the case, and certainly was the case here, yes.

Q. Don't you think that, given that scenario, that it wasan appropriate time to review as a state body, perhaps evenas a national body, and I'll raise this with Mr Alcorn, toreview the degree to which those policies are able to beimplemented properly at the local church level?A. I do know, and I can't comment because I'm not now amember of the state executive, I'm an employee. I do knowthat at national and at state level there are constantreviews of process in regard to these matters, so I wouldassume that's definitely the case.

However, if I can, I would just again make the pointthat we do not actually have an executive in this movement,state or national does not have the power to come into alocal church and say, "You must adopt this", or to enforcecertain things upon their board in terms of policy. We doeverything we can to provide and encourage them

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) G D SWENSON (Mr Kernaghan)


9940

Q. I'll ask some further questions of the next twowitnesses about that, thank you very much.

MR BECKETT: Those are my questions.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Mr Beckett. Mr Kernaghan?

MR KERNAGHAN: Thank you, your Honour.

<EXAMINATION BY MR KERNAGHAN:

MR KERNAGHAN: Q. Sir, my name is Aaron Kernaghan and Iact for Mr Lehmann. You say in evidence that you've justbeen giving, and this is a reference to transcript 9932 atline 31, you were asked a question by Counsel Assisting:

... you are being critical of those people,Jonathan Baldwin and Pastor Lehmann ...

This is in respect to a failure to report to the stateACC the arrest of Mr Baldwin.A. Yes.

Q. You remember that you were asked this question:

Do you not consider that it was in fact theACC who had the responsibility formonitoring such matters as concerning boththe charging and the conviction ofMr Baldwin?

Your answer was:

No, because I'm not sure how it would bereasonably possible to monitor everythingthat happens in everybody's life.

You give a non-responsive comment after that. Are yousaying that, so far as you're concerned it's your opinionthat in 2007, at the time of the arrest of Mr Baldwin, thatMr Lehmann had a responsibility to inform the state ACC ofMr Baldwin's arrest?A. Sorry, can you just give the timeframe again? Can yourepeat the question, sorry?

Q. As at the time of Mr Baldwin's arrest do you say that

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9941

Mr Lehmann had a responsibility to inform the state ACC ofthat arrest?A. Under ACC policy, because he was no longer an ACCpastor at that point, no; however, I would personally holdthat he would have had a responsibility to advise us,knowing that he had been a member - a credentialed ministerof ACC and that Baldwin had also been.

Q. So today, is that your view?A. Yes.

Q. You expect that any pastor, past or present affiliatedwith the ACC, would come forward and report such a matterto the state ACC?A. If they were aware of child abuse allegations againsta credential holder within ACC, yes.

Q. That's not the question I asked you. I asked you, ifthey were aware of the arrest of a pastor or a formerpastor, you would expect today any past or present pastorto make such a report; is that correct?A. Certainly a present pastor. You know, obviously"arrest" covers a wide range of things, but --

Q. What about a past pastor?A. What about a past?

Q. A former pastor?A. A former pastor? If they were aware, particularly -and I would like to draw the distinction between "arrest"which may be many things and the subject of this RoyalCommission, which is child abuse, that I believe that anymember who has held a position and retired and is aware ofa current serving credential holder, if they're aware ofit, I would think they have a moral obligation to reportthat, at least, at the very least.

Q. Does that mean that the purpose of your report was tomake judgments of the moral failings of Senior Pastor IanLehmann?A. The basis of my comments in that report, as Iexplained to Assisting Counsel, was the fact that post factthe conviction, meeting with the family of the abused, thevictim, and being advised that concerns had been raisedwith Pastor Lehmann and he had not acted on them, on thatbasis I formed the opinion that he had been negligent.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9942

Q. In saying that, do I understand you to allow for thepossibility that, if the basis upon which you have justexpressed you made those findings was not correct, youwould have a different view about his failings orotherwise?A. If Pastor Lehmann or any other pastor is not aware ofconcerns, then they couldn't possibly, and therefore Iwouldn't hold them responsible if they are not aware.

Q. You used the term "concerns" both in your evidence andin your report a number of times, and specifically in yourstatement which you've been taken to, perhaps we'll putthat on the screen, paragraph 39, Ringtail 5, page 5. Youwill see at the head of this page, the firstparagraph there is what we're referring to. You will seethe concluding sentence, "If those concerns were reported."You make a finding there, do you see that?A. Yes.

Q. It doesn't seem to matter here to you what theconcerns have to be; is that right?A. No, it does matter. The concerns were in the contextof a conviction record of child abuse.

Q. Can I just stop you there.A. Yes.

Q. That can't be right, can it? You're talking aboutacts by Pastor Lehmann that predated the matter going tothe police?A. The acts were my conversation with the family after,from where I gleaned this information, and formed myopinion was post conviction.

Q. No, but you're talking about concerns being reportedto Pastor Lehmann, absent conviction or criminal process,does it matter to you what the concerns are, or is theeffect of what you've written here to indicate thatbasically because you were told Pastor Lehmann didn't doanything, you could effectively pin responsibility on him?A. If he was aware of serious concerns in the context ofthis case, and he did not report it, then I would hold himresponsible, yes.

Q. Of course in preparing such a report as this, youconducted yourself in a professional manner?A. I endeavoured to, yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) G D SWENSON (Mr O'Brien)


9943

Q. Conscientious and thorough?A. Tried to.

Q. So you spoke to Pastor Lehmann?A. No, I have not.

Q. You interviewed him about what he knew?A. No.

Q. You sought his version of events?A. No, I did not.

Q. Do you think now that that would have been a sensiblecourse?A. Not necessarily. If Pastor Lehmann was still a memberof the ACC, definitely that would have been an importantstep to take, yes.

Q. But because he wasn't, you didn't think that it wasviable to engage in such a process?A. No, did not see any point in that.

Q. So you turned your mind to it?A. No, I can't say that I did.

Q. Didn't even think about it?A. No, I saw no point in that. Pastor Lehmann was nolonger with ACC, this was an internal recommendation.

MR KERNAGHAN: Thank you, your Honour; thank you,Commissioner.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Yes, Mr O'Brien.

MR O'BRIEN: Thanks, your Honour.

<EXAMINATION BY MR O'BRIEN:

MR O'BRIEN Q. O'Brien is my name, I represent Mr [ALA]and his mother and father. The situation, sir, is that thestate level of the ACC didn't come to find out about thecharges for quite some time?A. Correct.

Q. There was also a delay in finding out about theconviction of Baldwin as well?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9944

A. Yes.

Q. That's because the information failed to travel fromthe local level to the state level of the ACC; that's asummary of your evidence, isn't it?A. Correct, and as I acknowledged, a failure at the statelevel, the state executive level, to monitor the trialprocess, yes.

Q. You acknowledge failings which no doubt you'veendeavoured to rectify?A. Yes.

Q. But in the meantime, of course, there's a family.There's a son, a victim of child abuse, horrendous childabuse; you acknowledge that?A. Yes.

Q. And there's a mother and father who have desperatelypleaded in an email to all the churches associated with theAOG that they can get emails to, to help. That's what theydid, isn't it?A. Yes.

Q. Eventually that came to your desk at the state levelof the ACC?A. Yes.

Q. Your member of the state level sent back what could bedescribed as a fairly callous email and you've acceptedthat's the case. Correct?A. Correct, yes.

Q. You got some advice from your insurance company, dealwith this delicately, deal with it sensitively, take itseriously?A. Insurance --

Q. And that was the effect of the advice?A. To me, yes.

Q. Again, there was a period of time before anything wasdone at all. Correct?A. Correct.

Q. All the while still, this is years later then, there'sa child abused and there's mum and dad. Right?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9945

A. Years later, not from when we became aware, butyes, years later --

Q. But since the charge has been laid?A. Correct, yes.

Q. And since the offence has been committed --A. Yes.

Q. -- that process is ongoing, you come to be told byyour insurance company, look, best deal with itsensitively, but yet there's still a delay between whenthis all happened and the ACC response. Correct?A. Correct.

Q. You accept that that in and of itself, that delaythere at that point, caused continuing pain for the victimof the abuse first of all?A. Yes.

Q. And for his family?A. Yes, that would be obvious from their - I would assumethat from their letter, from the email, yes.

Q. Eventually the first personal contact, the firstpersonal contact being face-to-face contact, didn't occuruntil August 2012?A. Face-to-face contact, there had been phone contactprior to that.

Q. And they were delighted to see you?A. I don't know that I'd use the word "delighted" butthey were certainly very gracious and very welcoming, yes.

Q. That's good. And they sent you some texts saying,"Thanks for seeing us"?A. Yes, they did.

Q. Can you understand the pent up anger that would befelt by a victim of child abuse between the offencesoccurring and reporting it to the police, and allthose years later when, almost five years later, in factsince the offences many more years than that, but after thecharging process --A. Yes, I can understand that, yes.

Q. -- that you meet face-to-face?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9946

A. Yes.

Q. Since that meeting face-to-face with you, have you metface-to-face with Mr [ALA]?A. No, not met face-to-face, no. He was interstate, wehad phone contact, a number of phone conversations.

Q. He sought some counselling assistance from you in2012, in November?A. Correct.

Q. And there's been no contact from you or anyone fromthe ACC with him since?A. No, other than - no, there's been no contact. I wouldmake comment, as I have originally and I said to [ALA],"Please let me know", as he had done in November 2012, "ifthere is any further way in which we can help, pleasecontact me". I have had no further contact from him.

Q. Do you invite from him contact on that basis, anyfurther help that he might be able to get from you?A. Absolutely, absolutely, yes.

Q. I want to make something absolutely clear, if not toyou, to those listening to the Commission: [ALA]'sextremely angry with the ACC at a state level and at aCommonwealth level. Do you understand that?A. I don't understand that now, I have no basis onwhich - I certainly understood that when I met with him inBroome, yes.

Q. I'm telling you now so that you understand it and youdon't have to respond if you don't want to, he's stillextremely angry with the ACC --

MR CHOWDHURY: I object to this. If he has a question heshould ask it, rather than making statements, with respect.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Well, the question was whether ornot this witness knew that, and that's been asked andanswered.

MR O'BRIEN: Q. So you're unaware that he's still veryangry to this day with how he's been treated?A. Yes.

Q. Did the ACC attempt to contact him or his family in

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9947

the lead-up to these proceedings?A. No.

Q. Did it think to reach out to him and say, "How are yougoing? What's life like now? Have things improved? Areyou dealing with it better?" Did you think to do that?A. No, I did not.

Q. Did you think to go back to him at all since 2012 andsee how he as a young member of your church was coping nowafter this horrendous abuse?A. Let me just correct: He's not a member of my churchor the executive's church, he was a member of a localchurch, but no, I haven't been --

Q. He was a member of your movement's church?

MR CHOWDHURY: I think the witness was about to addsomething. I'd appreciate an opportunity for the witnessto finish his answer.

THE WITNESS: He is a member or an attendee of a churchthat is a part of the Australian Christian Churches, yes,that's correct. What I was going to say was that, my lastconversation with [ALA] again reiterated what I had spokento him about in Broome. We had, I felt, and based onsubsequent phone conversations, established a good openrapport, and I was very open with him and said if, againin November after I'd arranged further counselling for him,if there was anything else, just as you've done this time,if I can help further please contact me. He had alreadyaccepted that, taken up that offer. I expected if therewas further need, he would do that.

MR O'BRIEN: Q. So you left the ball in his court?A. Yes.

Q. I want to go back to the first part of that answer, ifI can. You suggest then that he saw his local church asbeing quite different from the ACC; that's the suggestionthat you make, is it?A. I'm not suggesting how he saw it. I'm stating thefact that it was a local church - he wasn't a member ofACC, he was a member of a local church which is affiliatedwith ACC.

Q. Do you think it's fair that he might have seen himself

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9948

when he was going to the church as a youth and a teenager,that he was going to a church that was a member of abroader organisation of churches?A. I can't really speculate on how he saw it, but thatwould be possible.

Q. Could you therefore contemplate that, when all of thishappened and he was trying to work out how he was going tobest deal with it, that he might have seen, not theindividual church as being responsible, but theorganisation under which this church was existing assomewhat responsible too?A. He may well have and certainly from his parents andcertainly his father's email, yes, that would be areasonable conclusion.

Q. Well, the father's email in October 2011 certainlymade that clear, didn't it?A. That's how he saw it, yes.

Q. That's how they saw it?A. Yes.

Q. But you agree you saw it totally differently, didn'tyou? You saw the church as being the responsible party andthe ACC as being something other than responsible?A. No, that's not correct. In terms of, certainly thelocal church has first responsibility, but to say that ACCas a movement was other than responsible, no. And that isevidenced by the fact that I personally engaged with thefamily, late though it was and we've acknowledged that andthere were failings in that process, but if we accepted nosense of pastoral responsibility and well-being to see thatthey were cared for, I wouldn't have done that, we wouldn'thave done that.

Q. God forbid this would happen to some other youngfellow in a church affiliated with the ACC, but if it didand they also had a view, like my client and his familydid, that I am part of a broader church moment, not just mychurch but I can go to another state and go to church andparticipate in a similar movement in a similar church in adifferent state, that they might hold, if it happened tothem, the ACC responsible in some way if there were afailing such as there was in this case?A. I would assume that could be a possibility, thatpeople may - I can't really answer that, it's very

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9949

speculative, to be honest.

Q. Would you answer them in the same way that youanswered my earlier question? Would you say, you're not amember of the ACC, Mr Victim of abuse, you are a member ofa little church in a little suburb in a small town inVictoria or South Australia, you're not a member of theACC, is that how you'd respond to them?

MR CHOWDHURY: Sorry, I object to that. It's never beenthis witness's response, and in fact this witness has saidon a number of occasions now they acknowledge theirfailings, that the state executive and the board shouldhave been given support, and that was done. CounselAssisting went been over this in great detail. I'm reallyconcerned about the repetitive nature of this questioning,with respect.

MR O'BRIEN: I'm not cross-examining this witness foranyone else's benefit except my clients, for my client'sparents and for the Commission. If it's repetitive, Iapologise, but this is an intelligent and articulatewitness and he's capable of understanding that question.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: I'll allow the question,Mr O'Brien.

MR O'BRIEN: Thank you.

THE WITNESS: In which case, I would need you to define"member".

MR O'BRIEN: Q. Is that what you'd say to the victim ofabuse, "Can you define 'member' for me? Am I a member ofthe ACC or am I a member of the small congregation in thesmall local town? You understand the point I'm making,don't you?A. I understand the point you're making, Mr O'Brien, butI'm wanting also for you to understand that, and that's whyI asked for you to define - you put the question to meabout him being a member of ACC, the broader movement.

ACC's membership consists only of churches andpastors, not local members of local churches. They may bea member of a local church, but attendees or local churchmembers are not members of Australian Christian Churches.Our local churches are autonomous.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9950

Q. You see, I'm not talking about membership, sir --A. Sorry, you used the terminology.

Q. I'm talking about who a person might sheetresponsibility to, and my client and his family sheetedsome of the responsibility to your organisation. Do youunderstand why that might happen?A. Yes, I do understand why that might happen, yes.

Q. Do they come in and sign a membership form at thelocal church describing themselves as a member of thisorganisation or a member of your organisation? Do they dothat?A. Every local church has its own particular sets ofrules.

Q. Do they do that in any of the churches you're familiarwith?A. Some have a membership, a local church membership,depends on the local constitution, how they're structuredlegally.

Q. Are they then told, well, if something silly oruntoward happened to you, the umbrella organisation is notresponsible for it, that will be dealt with by the localchurch? Is that what they're told on these membershipforms, there's some sort of deed of release?

MR CHOWDHURY: Can I make an objection about the form ofthe question. What does he mean by "responsible".


MR O'BRIEN: Q. Does the membership of the local churchsomehow mean that the ACC is then not responsible ifsomething untoward were to happen? For example, sexualabuse?A. The ACC's responsibility first and foremost is to itsmembers, and that is, as you've rightly used, it's anumbrella organisation, an affiliate organisation ofchurches, under which ministers are credentialed.

We have, as I stated earlier today - an executive ormembers of executive in the movement have no jurisdiction,no right. In fact, it would violate local churchconstitution to just walk into a church without proper

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9951

invitation. We do not have that right as a movement.Having said that, I acknowledge that we would not want tosee any victim of abuse uncared for, absolutely. And our -I'll leave it there.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Q. Mr Swenson, does it followfrom what you say that the members of the ACC are theordained members of the church and not the members of thecongregation?A. That's largely correct, your Honour, yes. So localchurch members, if a local church has a membership, are notmembers of the ACC movement, no.

Q. Do you think that's well understood by the members ofthe congregation, Mr Swenson?A. I'm not sure, your Honour. Many - I would say today,maybe 30 years ago many people may have felt they were partof then Assemblies of God. There would be many people in Ithink many of our churches today who would not even beaware of what ACC is. Our churches operate under localnames, many of them have no reference to AustralianChristian Church, Bondi, or wherever it might be. So it'sdifficult to answer that, yes.

Q. So the governance structure, that's put in place forthe ordained members of the affiliated churches, thatgovernance structure?A. Yes.

Q. And that governance structure, have we understood thiscorrectly, offers some sort of leadership role?A. Yes.

Q. Some opportunities for ongoing professionaldevelopment, be it either faith-based or with respect togeneral management of an organisation such as thedevelopment of policies for child protection for example?A. That would be correct, your Honour, yes.

Q. With no capacity to enforce any of those policies orthe development of any form of training, but only toencourage?A. That would - I'd probably - you know, I'm not a legalexpert and I guess --

Q. I'm trying to use plain English.A. Yes, I understand your question, I'm just not sure - I

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9952

would think that would be correct.

Q. And that in fact the only I suppose enforcement roleor power that, if we've understood this correctly, powerthat the top tier of the organisation has at a nationallevel is the credentialing of the members; is that correct?A. Through the credentialing and the code of conductthat's framed around that, and through the provisions ofthe united constitution of the movement, in which obviouslythings are spelt out which set the terms for membership byordained ministers and particular local churches.

Q. So the ACC can remove the credentials of an individualmember?A. Yes.

Q. Or, I'm not sure if the have the language correct, butdisaffiliate an individual local church?A. Yes, that would be correct.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Sorry, Mr O'Brien, I didn't mean tointerrupt.

MR O'BRIEN: No, not at all, your Honour.

Q. As this Royal Commission approached and leading up toit, you didn't get in touch with [ALA] or his family,you've said as much?

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: That question has been put andanswered, Mr O'Brien.

MR O'BRIEN: Q. Do you have a reason as to why youdidn't do that?A. To be honest, I mean, I wasn't aware that [ALD] and[ALC] would be present. I thought it may have even beeninappropriate to have made contact with them prior to this,you know, yes.

MR O'BRIEN: Thanks. Nothing further.

MR CHOWDHURY: If I could go last, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Mr Taylor?

<EXAMINATION BY MR TAYLOR:

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) G D SWENSON (Mr Taylor)


9953

MR TAYLOR Q. Mr Swenson, my name's Taylor, I appear onbehalf of Christian Peterson. If I just take you to yourstatement of 29 September, paragraph 12, that's atRingtail 2. Just have a look at paragraph 12 for me?A. Yes.

Q. Firstly, you use the word "officially". Was there anyunofficial reporting?A. No.

Q. And Pastor Ashley Goode, he was on the district orregional executive; is that correct?A. He was the regional leader, yes.

Q. Are you able to say, by reference to a date, what wasthe first time you refer to in paragraph 12?A. As I stated earlier, the first time as an executive -the first time I became aware and the first time as anexecutive we became aware was at the executive meeting on6 December, if I recall the date correctly.

Q. We've got copies of the minutes of that meeting. Tomy eye, Ashley Goode wasn't present?A. No, he was not because he was not a member of thestate executive.

Q. How did Ashley Goode convey that information?A. I understand that was by phone call to a staff member,as I understand.

Q. Are you able to say when that was?A. My understanding was in fact only in days before theexecutive meeting.

Q. Is it correct to say the state executive only met in2007 on two or three occasions?A. No, usually go to four meetings most times.

Q. So about every three months or so?A. Yes.

Q. Is that a fluid situation?A. Generally it's fairly standard, usually beginning ofthe year, early in the year, June, September, end ofthe year, November/December.

Q. Are you able to tell the Royal Commission when the

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) G D SWENSON (Mr Taylor)


9954

previous meeting was to 6 December 2007 of the stateexecutive?A. I'm sorry, I don't. I'd be happy to but I don't havethat information to hand.

Q. In your position on the state executive, you prepareda report dated 4 September 2012, do you remember preparingthat report?A. Yes.

Q. Did you interview Mr Peterson prior to preparing thatreport in relation to these issues?A. I didn't interview him immediately prior to thatreport. I had lengthy phone conversations with ChrisPeterson upon receipt of the email from [ALD] in theprevious October, and probably some subsequent ones but Ican't remember specifics, yes.

Q. Is it the situation that in those conversations youhad with Mr Peterson, you didn't disclose to him that youwere preparing a report and you wanted some input from him?A. No, I mean, the major conversations withPastor Peterson were a long time before that report waseven thought of, yes.

Q. Do I take it, therefore, that in preparing the reportyou had no direct information from Mr Peterson about whatoccurred in this matter? You were relying on thehistorical?A. I was relying on the very lengthy conversations we hadon 11, 12 October, I can't remember the exact date, in 2012in which Pastor Peterson outlined the care and support he'dprovided for the family, for which we were very grateful.

Q. To be fair to you, your report's dated 4 September2012?A. Yes.

Q. You couldn't have relied upon October 2012 lengthyconversations, could you?A. Sorry, 11.

MR TAYLOR: I have nothing further, thank you.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Thanks, Mr Chowdhury.


12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) G D SWENSON (Mr Chowdhury)


9955

MR CHOWDHURY: Q. There's just one matter I want toclarify, if I may, Mr Swenson. Could tab 15 be brought upplease of the Sunshine Coast tender bundle. You were shownthis by Counsel Assisting. This was a communicationwriting to you from Stephen Watson from ACS; correct?A. Correct.

Q. It's dated 12 October 2011?A. Yes.

Q. The first sentence is:

Thank you for your time on the phone thismorning.

Can you recall what time that conversation was you hadwith Stephen WatsonA. No. In fact, to be honest, I'm surprised at the dateheading on that. I thought my initial contact was withanother person, a female at ACS. My recollection was, tobe honest, that my conversation with Stephen Watson was ata later date.

Q. This, it seems, would be an email sent to you. If itwas sent on 12 October 2012, are you able to say whetherthat's correct or not?A. If it was sent, yes. If it was - sorry, can you?

Q. I should have said 12 October 2011. So I'll ask myquestion again. Thinking back now, given the date of thatcorrespondence, are you able to say whether you can recallwhat the conversation was on that day?A. I personally have some question about that, I'mprepared to accept, but I personally have some doubt aboutthat being the date of that conversation.

Q. The reason I was asking you that: If you look attab 13, this is the email from Juanita Foote to [ALD]. Youwill see it was sent on 12 October 2011 in the afternoon at3.43pm?A. Yes.

Q. But in any event, you had doubts about whether youspoke to Stephen Watson on 12 October 2011?A. I spoke to somebody from ACS Insurance. I do havedoubts as to whether, on that day, that was - and the

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) G D SWENSON


9956

reason I have doubts about that date is because, No.1, myrecollection is that on 12 October - and in fact there maybe evidence of this in my file notes, where I made commentthat I had spoken to somebody at ACS. I think it may havebeen a female.

The other reason I have a question about the date ofthat, on the heading of that email, is because when I didspeak with Stephen Watson, he indicated to me - becausemediation was underway as I understood - he indicated to methat he would talk to the insurers, because obviouslynobody wanted to mess up mediation that was alreadyhappening

Q. In any event you seem to think your conversation withStephen Watson might have been on a different date?A. Yes.

MR CHOWDHURY: Nothing further.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Mr Beckett?

MR BECKETT: Nothing in re-examination.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER:

Q. Just a couple of matters, to come back to this issueabout the credentialing of members and the disaffiliationof churches, powers held by the ACC, putting to one sidethe question of when the information with respect to theconviction of Jonathan Baldwin officially reached the ACC -there's no question that it did - and I would understandfrom you that there was no issue taken with the accuracy ofthe finding of the court?A. No, not at all.

Q. And so that must have sent considerable shock wavesthrough the ACC, that a church affiliated with the ACC hadsuch a catastrophic thing happen?A. Certainly at an executive level, anything of thisnature, yes, is regarded as horrendous, yes.

Q. So it happened inside a church affiliated with themovement?A. Yes.

Q. But not only that, the criminal conduct was the

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) G D SWENSON


9957

criminal conduct of a credentialed pastor within thechurch?A. Yes.

Q. You've given evidence in general terms about theconstant review of processes, procedures and policies, andin that context, I assume, that that constant reviewprocess also takes into account whether or not thecredentialing process itself is one that you're satisfiedis sufficiently thorough?A. Yes. That is a responsibility at a national -credentialing is specifically the responsibility of thenational executive. I can't fully answer that, but I amaware that that is and has been under review and isregularly looked at and reviewed, yes.

Q. Similarly, when news of this catastrophe hit the ACC,did it cause the ACC to consider an in-depth review ofthose matters that are within the remit of the ACC; inother words, the credentialing process itself and theongoing affiliation of the church?A. Your Honour, I am aware - I do not sit on theexecutive these days - I am aware that the nationalexecutive of our movement in this country certainly haslooked at and reviewed and is reviewing necessary policiesand procedures. I'm probably not in a position to be ableto comment on the details of that review now.

Q. Are you able to say as to whether or not there was anyspecific review conducted in the wake of the conviction ofJonathan Baldwin of the credentialing process and theongoing affiliation of the church, particularly withrespect to its child protection policies, its monitoringand supervision, its complaint handling procedures?A. I can't say, and again by this time I was not sittingon executive as a member. I do know that therecommendation that I made with regard to ensuring thesematters are followed through appropriately was certainlytaken on board. I do know that there is a constant reviewof child protection policies and other policies.

Q. I understand that, but this particular circumstancewould have, and perhaps should have, provided the ACC withat least an opportunity to examine what happened hereinside the institution with respect to the powers that theACC holds, in terms of how these circumstances occurred?A. I really can't comment because of my role, your

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9958

Honour. I really can't answer that properly, I'm sorry,yes.

Q. To the best of your knowledge in your role, though,you're not aware that that happened?A. I'm not aware that a review regarding that particularchurch - I'm sorry, is that what you're asking, regardingthat particular church?

Q. Yes?A. I'm not aware that there has been a specific review ofthat particular church. Certainly there's been a look atpolicies and procedures that would affect obviously that orother churches in the future.

Q. In the sense that this particular Case Study, anexamination of what happened here, would be an educationalopportunity for the ACC itself?A. Absolutely, absolutely, yes.

Q. But you're not aware that that happened?A. I'm not aware but I couldn't say that it has noteither, I'm sorry.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Anything arising out of that?

MR BECKETT: No, nothing arising.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Mr Chowdhury?


MR CHOWDHURY: Q. What are the requirements inQueensland to your knowledge for credentialled pastors inrespect of child protection matters? I've put it poorly,but was there a process where checks would be made aboutpeople seeking credentials in Queensland?A. In terms of - firstly, obviously for anybody to haveor to apply for a credential they must have a blue card,and then in 2005 - if I'm not answering the question,correct me.

Q. No, that's fine.A. In 2005 we did employ somebody to help address theseissues of compliance and governance in local churches, sothey were engaged and conducted church compliance seminarsthroughout our state. I know in 2005-2006 some 26 of these

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9959

seminars were advertised and conducted throughout thestate; two of them on the Sunshine Coast. In the state atthe time, if my memory serves me correctly, 130-somethingchurches participated, took up that opportunity, with morethan 250 attendees, yes.

Q. Can I just show you this document. Your Honour, theCommission has a copy of this but it's yet to come throughto the other parties. I'll show Counsel Assisting. If thewitness could be shown this please.

MR BECKETT: I'll have the document put up on Elmo, andhand up two copies for the bench. I'll tender it after thewitness has given his evidence.

MR CHOWDHURY: Thank you.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Yes, Mr Chowdhury.

MR CHOWDHURY: Thank you.

Q. Just let me know if you need time to look at it, butare you familiar with this document?A. I am familiar with this, yes.

Q. If we push down to the bottom of the page, in fact Ithink you signed that at the end, or it's under your nameat least?A. Yes, I did.

Q. This was a state-wide memo that was issued to allaffiliated pastors and churches about the training in childprotection processes?A. Correct.

Q. You mentioned before about a requirement forcredentialed pastors in Queensland to hold a blue card.A. Yes.

Q. I'm sure there are similar cards in other states, canyou briefly explain what the blue card is?A. The blue card - you're correct, various states havedifferent requirements. Queensland has a blue card systemwhich conducts a police check against that person andestablishes their suitability to work with children andyoung people.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9960

Q. If this document could be shown please. Again, theCommission has this, if it can be put up on the overheadprojector?

MR BECKETT: Just so we don't get confused, I'll tenderthat first document, it's entitled, "New State InitiativeThrough Church Life Queensland."

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Exhibit 18.0035.

EXHIBIT #18.0035 DOCUMENT ENTITLED, "NEW STATE INITIATIVETHROUGH CHURCH LIFE QUEENSLAND"

MR BECKETT: I'll hand up some copies of this documententitled, "Connection - Queensland Assemblies of God".There's two copies for the bench and one copy for Elmo, andI'll tender that now.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: 18.0036.

EXHIBIT #18.0036 DOCUMENT ENTITLED, "CONNECTION -QUEENSLAND ASSEMBLIES OF GOD"

MR CHOWDHURY: Q. This is a photocopy, sir. Do you knowwhat Connection was at that time?A. Yes, Connection was the state publication newsletterthat went to all credentialed pastors in the state.

Q. How was it distributed?A. What year was this?

Q. This is in 2006, May 2006?A. 2006, if my memory serves me correctly was probablystill hard copy, yes.

Q. Is that through the mail?A. Yes.

Q. Do you know how it's distributed now?A. By email, yes.

Q. If we go to the second page, please, this was a formadvising pastors of the legal requirement for allcredential holders to have a blue card. Correct?A. Correct, yes.

Q. If we go to the third page, this is the newsletter

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9961

that has various articles in it. Correct?A. That's right, yes.

Q. If we go to the bottom of that page under, "ChurchReviews", is that a segment about Neil and Sabrina Scottconducting seminars about complying with Commonwealth andState Government legislation?A. That's correct, yes.

MR CHOWDHURY: Those are the questions I have on thatdocument. I think Counsel Assisting was going to enterthat?

MR BECKETT: It's tendered.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: It has been tendered.

MR CHOWDHURY: Thank you. One other question.

Q. In the light of the conviction of a youth pastor forvery serious criminal offences, Her Honour asked youquestions about whether a review should be conducted andyou weren't aware of one. Do you consider that thepolicies or procedures should have been reviewed as aresult of that knowledge?A. Yes, because I would say that, as an organisation weregularly constantly review policies and procedures, yes.

MR CHOWDHURY: I have nothing further.

MR BECKETT: There's a couple of things arising from that,your Honour, I'll just be as brief as I can.


MR BECKETT: I wonder if exhibit 1835 could come up,please. These are the two documents that Mr Chowdhury tookyou to a moment ago, the first one, "New state initiativethrough Church Life Queensland". Am I correct in saying,this is a document, I've made my way through it, it's areference to something called AOG Assist "which will becomea storehouse of information for our churches Queensland andAustralia wide". Is that right?A. That's correct, yes.

Q. That's the subject of this particular memo, is it?A. It's part of the subject, yes.

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647



9962

Q. It says:

The information that will be available toour churches will cover a number ofpastoral and [administrative] areas.

A. Yes.

Q. That includes work contracts, children's ministry, howto ensure that's a safe environment for children, a fringebenefit system, constitution, and then a whole lot of othermatters?A. Yes.

Q. What was the purpose of this document? Was it sentout to each of the affiliated churches?A. Yes, it was, yes. It would have been sent to all -not just churches, but to all credential holders, yes.

Q. So it's an indication that there's some form ofinformation that's available if you, I presume, makecontact with the ACC at the state level; is that right?A. Yes, and national. That was actually a nationalonline site, which today the equivalent is I think frommemory it's called Access. But, yes, similar informationis available.

Q. Then if we go to 1836, particularly the thirdpage there, there's a process of review of churches, isthat right, if we go to the bottom of that page?A. Yes.

Q. That was a process involving feedback from seminars?A. No, this was, Church Reviews was a program that wasconducted whereby churches were invited to attend,everything provided for them. It was an audit checklist ofeverything that they needed to have in place on every levelof governance compliance, yes.

Q. Effectively it says here:

The feedback from the seminars hasindicated that a number of our churches arenot current with government legislation.

Do you see that?

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

353637383940

41424344

454647

.16/10/2014 (93) G D SWENSON


9963

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Suggesting that child protection policies is one ofthe areas that are lacking and that work needs to be doneon that?A. Yes.

Q. It doesn't seem to indicate what steps need to betaken by the churches to ensure that adequate ChildProtection Policy is put in place, does it?A. If I can comment on that. That was simply the factthat, as that became aware, as we began to conduct thesereviews, and obviously there were many churches that werecompliant or up-to-date, there were some that weren't, andthat was in fact one of the reasons why we had engaged aparticular staff member, Neil Scott, his name is there, toassist churches with that and he travelled all over thestate assisting churches to do that.

Q. To ensure compliance, including in child protection?A. Yes.

Q. Was he a specialist in child protection matters?A. He wasn't personally, but all information had been puttogether from professional and appropriate sources.

Q. Do you know if he went to the Sunshine Coast Church,the subject of this part of the Case Study?A. He didn't go - to my knowledge he didn't go to thatchurch specifically, but during the financial year,certainly the 05/06 year, July-June, there were two ofthese seminars conducted in that region, yes.

MR BECKETT: Thank you very much. Those are my questions.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Thank you. Thank you,Pastor Swenson, you are excused.

<THE WITNESS WITHDREW

MR BECKETT: Your Honour, I notice the time. We have twowitnesses left for this Case Study, Pastor Hunt, who's thestate president of the ACC, and then Pastor Alcorn, who'sthe national president, for tomorrow. If Your Honourpleases, we can commence that first thing tomorrow morning.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Yes. I'm not sure whether or not

12

345678

9101112

131415161718

192021222324

25262728

293031323334

35363738394041424344454647

.16/10/2014 (93) DISCUSSION


9964

you're suggesting we start earlier than 10, Mr Beckett?

MR BECKETT: I'm in Your Honour's hands. If you wish tostart earlier, then I'm sure we can accommodate that.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Just, if there is a concern that wewon't finish with those two witnesses in the space of theday.

MR BECKETT: I think certainly I'm happy to take that onboard, as long as other counsel and solicitors at the Bartable are available.

MR CHOWDHURY: I'm certainly happy to start as early aswhatever the Commission wants to do.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Do you want to say anything,Mr Kernaghan, about a 9.30 start?

MR KERNAGHAN: No.

MR TAYLOR: I can indicate that I won't be here tomorrow,so there will be no one on behalf of Mr Peterson.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: So that doesn't trouble you,Mr Taylor?

MR TAYLOR: Doesn't trouble me.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Perhaps in those circumstances,just to be absolutely sure, we will commence then at 9.30tomorrow.

MR BECKETT: Thank you.

THE PRESIDING MEMBER: Thank you.

AT 4.06PM THE COMMISSION WAS ADJOURNEDTO FRIDAY, 17 OCTOBER 2014 AT 9.30AM

##18.0032 [1] - 9854:32

#18.0033 [1] - 9902:17

#18.0034 [1] - 9908:29

#18.0035 [1] - 9958:11

#18.0036 [1] - 9958:21

''assault [1] - 9903:41

'member' [1] -

9947:34

003/10/2014 [1] -

9854:33

05/06 [1] - 9961:31

11 [4] - 9876:40,

9895:46, 9902:45,

9930:15

10 [8] - 9859:31,

9870:26, 9880:5,

9884:36, 9893:3,

9897:43, 9919:41,

9962:1

10.25am [1] - 9852:27

10.26am [1] - 9853:7

11 [12] - 9871:47,

9895:29, 9898:6,

9904:37, 9920:4,

9920:25, 9920:31,

9920:34, 9923:15,

9924:42, 9952:31,

9952:41

12 [15] - 9877:12,

9895:25, 9895:29,

9903:33, 9922:35,

9951:3, 9951:4,

9951:16, 9952:31,

9953:9, 9953:26,

9953:30, 9953:40,

9953:45, 9954:2

12.46pm [1] - 9901:39

12th [1] - 9877:28

13 [11] - 9859:30,

9864:45, 9865:16,

9904:42, 9905:10,

9905:15, 9905:18,

9907:9, 9907:13,

9922:34, 9953:39

130-something [1] -

9957:3

14 [1] - 9895:22

15 [5] - 9884:22,

9908:3, 9908:18,

9925:23, 9953:3

15/10/2014 [1] -

9908:30

16 [3] - 9852:27,

9860:46, 9879:22

17 [5] - 9852:21,

9873:39, 9909:24,

9920:31, 9962:39

18 [7] - 9852:17,

9853:2, 9855:28,

9875:7, 9878:37,

9878:43, 9928:25

18" [1] - 9855:31

18-18 [1] - 9855:25

18-28 [2] - 9856:8,

9859:30

18.0032 [1] - 9854:30

18.0033 [1] - 9902:15

18.0034 [1] - 9908:27

18.0035 [1] - 9958:9

18.0036 [1] - 9958:19

1835 [1] - 9959:36

1836 [1] - 9960:29

19 [7] - 9857:42,

9877:31, 9877:33,

9877:35, 9878:15,

9879:28, 9928:27

1976 [1] - 9902:32

1994 [2] - 9875:37,

9875:43

1998 [1] - 9902:39

19th [4] - 9858:47,

9877:28, 9877:31,

9897:2

22 [1] - 9951:4

20 [4] - 9865:34,

9894:9, 9894:11,

9899:22

2004 [1] - 9930:27

2004-2006 [2] -

9933:6, 9933:12

2005 [4] - 9901:23,

9934:1, 9956:40,

9956:44

2005-2006 [1] -

9956:47

2006 [26] - 9854:37,

9854:38, 9855:14,

9856:13, 9857:42,

9857:43, 9863:23,

9875:11, 9875:16,

9875:34, 9875:46,

9876:5, 9876:8,

9876:19, 9877:11,

9877:12, 9877:33,

9878:4, 9879:28,

9879:29, 9917:40,

9930:27, 9933:5,

9958:32, 9958:33

2006" [1] - 9853:34

2006-2012 [1] -

9862:22

2007 [47] - 9863:23,

9864:29, 9864:45,

9864:47, 9865:16,

9865:23, 9865:24,

9866:21, 9866:32,

9866:45, 9868:35,

9877:43, 9877:45,

9878:5, 9878:15,

9879:13, 9879:14,

9891:38, 9892:24,

9894:25, 9895:10,

9897:2, 9902:34,

9902:36, 9903:15,

9903:21, 9903:31,

9904:24, 9904:28,

9904:31, 9904:34,

9904:42, 9905:10,

9905:15, 9905:27,

9907:9, 9907:10,

9910:22, 9915:13,

9919:25, 9919:28,

9919:30, 9931:22,

9932:22, 9938:41,

9951:36, 9952:1

2007" [1] - 9853:34

2007-2009 [2] -

9893:27, 9894:43

2008 [5] - 9861:46,

9868:38, 9902:42,

9904:29

2009 [32] - 9866:46,

9867:1, 9869:20,

9869:25, 9869:45,

9870:25, 9870:29,

9870:32, 9873:4,

9873:27, 9880:8,

9882:31, 9884:31,

9887:47, 9892:39,

9893:3, 9894:26,

9895:10, 9897:42,

9898:6, 9902:45,

9911:41, 9917:4,

9917:6, 9917:26,

9918:38, 9919:15,

9920:1, 9920:10,

9920:12, 9920:20

2011 [23] - 9873:31,

9873:47, 9874:7,

9874:43, 9895:25,

9895:29, 9895:38,

9904:46, 9905:29,

9919:20, 9920:13,

9920:25, 9922:35,

9924:42, 9927:16,

9927:18, 9927:27,

9929:26, 9946:17,

9953:9, 9953:30,

9953:40, 9953:45

2012 [23] - 9855:16,

9857:43, 9874:43,

9874:44, 9879:30,

9897:22, 9898:23,

9918:32, 9919:28,

9927:25, 9929:10,

9929:11, 9929:37,

9943:27, 9944:9,

9944:16, 9945:9,

9952:7, 9952:31,

9952:36, 9952:39,

9953:26

2013 [2] - 9854:9,

9861:46

2014 [7] - 9852:27,

9853:22, 9897:27,

9902:7, 9908:3,

9908:18, 9962:39

22 [3] - 9853:37,

9864:34, 9891:20

24 [6] - 9854:7,

9854:11, 9864:29,

9903:21, 9924:8,

9924:32

250 [1] - 9957:5

26 [1] - 9956:47

27 [2] - 9877:11,

9898:3

28 [3] - 9855:28,

9855:30, 9855:31

29 [3] - 9887:47,

9902:7, 9951:3

29/09/2014 [1] -

9902:17

33 [3] - 9853:22,

9897:26, 9897:27

3.1 [1] - 9897:2

3.43pm [1] - 9953:41

30 [6] - 9866:16,

9908:34, 9908:43,

9909:4, 9909:36,

9949:17

31 [1] - 9938:16

39 [2] - 9930:10,

9940:13

44 [6] - 9853:33,

9876:44, 9877:12,

9898:23, 9952:7,

9952:35

4.06PM [1] - 9962:38

4.1 [2] - 9877:13,

9877:18

40 [4] - 9866:16,

9876:1, 9898:43,

.16/10/2014 (93)


1

9900:5

55 [5] - 9877:11,

9897:22, 9928:26,

9940:13

66 [8] - 9903:31,

9907:10, 9907:25,

9910:17, 9912:45,

9913:8, 9951:20,

9952:1

77 [6] - 9870:25,

9870:28, 9870:32,

9880:8, 9884:31,

9897:42

887 [1] - 9928:32

8th [2] - 9877:43,

9877:45

99 [1] - 9887:43

9.30 [2] - 9962:18,

9962:31

9.30AM [1] - 9962:39

90s [1] - 9876:6

93 [1] - 9852:18

9857 [1] - 9879:22

9932 [1] - 9938:15

AAaron [2] - 9875:4,

9938:13

abandonment [2] -

9925:37, 9925:41

ability [1] - 9936:12

able [22] - 9864:43,

9866:29, 9871:12,

9876:43, 9886:47,

9899:37, 9901:2,

9904:22, 9915:26,

9918:26, 9920:9,

9927:37, 9937:34,

9944:21, 9951:15,

9951:31, 9951:47,

9953:26, 9953:32,

9955:26, 9955:29

abreast [1] - 9910:43

absent [1] - 9940:36

absolutely [14] -

9862:44, 9886:16,

9886:30, 9896:26,

9916:15, 9917:14,

9944:22, 9944:24,

9949:3, 9956:19,

9962:31

ABUSE [1] - 9852:13

abuse [62] - 9855:4,

9855:20, 9856:2,

9856:9, 9856:26,

9857:36, 9860:26,

9860:47, 9861:12,

9861:47, 9862:24,

9862:30, 9862:42,

9863:32, 9865:39,

9874:30, 9875:8,

9875:35, 9875:43,

9876:29, 9877:33,

9878:38, 9881:41,

9892:25, 9901:26,

9903:29, 9905:37,

9906:34, 9912:42,

9913:12, 9913:27,

9914:20, 9914:23,

9918:10, 9918:45,

9919:17, 9921:9,

9929:45, 9930:26,

9932:31, 9932:46,

9933:20, 9934:13,

9934:19, 9934:20,

9934:38, 9934:47,

9936:32, 9939:15,

9939:32, 9940:23,

9942:15, 9942:16,

9943:18, 9943:40,

9945:11, 9947:5,

9947:34, 9948:38,

9949:3

Abuse [1] - 9855:38

abused [2] - 9939:43,

9942:47

ACC [133] - 9864:37,

9865:25, 9865:32,

9866:12, 9872:12,

9872:17, 9872:27,

9872:31, 9872:34,

9872:36, 9872:42,

9873:3, 9873:17,

9876:8, 9876:14,

9877:6, 9877:17,

9878:4, 9878:29,

9881:18, 9881:45,

9882:23, 9890:41,

9890:43, 9890:46,

9891:4, 9896:18,

9898:28, 9902:23,

9902:31, 9903:11,

9905:27, 9905:36,

9905:38, 9905:39,

9905:42, 9906:1,

9906:2, 9906:27,

9906:46, 9907:4,

9907:8, 9907:28,

9910:36, 9910:42,

9911:10, 9911:17,

9911:24, 9911:42,

9911:47, 9912:7,

9914:33, 9914:40,

9914:47, 9915:41,

9916:5, 9916:13,

9916:28, 9916:38,

9916:45, 9916:46,

9918:27, 9919:16,

9919:28, 9920:16,

9920:17, 9920:21,

9920:22, 9920:27,

9925:44, 9926:34,

9926:39, 9927:3,

9929:15, 9929:46,

9930:32, 9930:46,

9931:24, 9931:37,

9932:15, 9932:23,

9932:30, 9935:35,

9938:22, 9938:28,

9938:42, 9939:1,

9939:3, 9939:7,

9939:13, 9939:14,

9939:16, 9941:17,

9941:29, 9941:42,

9942:4, 9942:26,

9943:13, 9944:13,

9944:26, 9944:34,

9944:47, 9945:40,

9945:44, 9945:45,

9946:26, 9946:28,

9946:38, 9946:44,

9947:5, 9947:8,

9947:35, 9947:41,

9948:36, 9949:7,

9949:12, 9949:20,

9950:13, 9954:29,

9954:31, 9954:38,

9955:17, 9955:18,

9955:19, 9955:43,

9955:46, 9956:18,

9960:23, 9961:43

ACC's [3] - 9883:12,

9947:43, 9948:39

accept [35] - 9860:40,

9862:11, 9862:15,

9864:45, 9870:27,

9878:14, 9878:27,

9878:33, 9881:42,

9885:35, 9889:22,

9889:47, 9892:24,

9892:28, 9893:46,

9894:2, 9895:16,

9895:42, 9895:44,

9896:16, 9903:6,

9907:11, 9907:12,

9907:18, 9911:45,

9912:7, 9912:8,

9914:4, 9914:32,

9916:22, 9917:16,

9918:38, 9937:28,

9943:16, 9953:35

acceptance [1] -

9926:36

accepted [8] -

9892:29, 9892:35,

9932:14, 9932:22,

9932:33, 9942:30,

9945:32, 9946:32

accepting [2] -

9887:8, 9926:24

access [11] - 9859:1,

9864:16, 9882:28,

9894:3, 9894:43,

9894:46, 9895:3,

9897:30, 9897:35,

9900:24, 9913:44

Access [1] - 9960:26

accessibility [1] -

9893:33

accessible [3] -

9880:34, 9893:40,

9893:42

accommodate [1] -

9962:4

accompanying [1] -

9933:46

account [1] - 9955:8

accountability [1] -

9882:6

accountable [1] -

9859:24

accounting [1] -

9883:11

accuracy [1] - 9954:33

accurate [4] - 9854:7,

9875:24, 9889:43,

9892:30

accurately [2] -

9872:18, 9891:31

accusations [1] -

9926:44

accuse [1] - 9860:9

accused [5] - 9865:39,

9867:23, 9868:27,

9912:42, 9914:20

accuser [1] - 9860:9

acknowledge [8] -

9874:2, 9881:22,

9917:20, 9927:3,

9942:10, 9942:16,

9947:12, 9949:2

acknowledged [4] -

9881:18, 9919:16,

9942:6, 9946:31

acknowledgment [1] -

9872:32

acquisition [1] -

9890:2

acquisitions [1] -

9926:42

acquittal [1] - 9932:26

ACS [21] - 9872:18,

9872:43, 9885:43,

9890:27, 9890:32,

9890:40, 9890:45,

9891:1, 9891:5,

9920:9, 9920:10,

9920:16, 9920:18,

9925:20, 9925:26,

9926:12, 9926:16,

9953:6, 9953:21,

9953:46, 9954:4

act [3] - 9875:5,

9891:16, 9938:14

acted [1] - 9939:45

action [16] - 9873:32,

9877:29, 9883:22,

9886:18, 9886:20,

9888:33, 9890:1,

9906:31, 9906:42,

9909:31, 9916:5,

9916:8, 9929:32,

9930:18, 9931:26,

9936:3

actions [2] - 9916:12,

9927:20

active [4] - 9861:32,

9898:18, 9907:26,

9907:28

actively [1] - 9885:19

acts [2] - 9940:29,

9940:31

adapted [2] - 9858:39,

9858:43

add [1] - 9945:18

addition [1] - 9881:11

additionally [1] -

9931:21

address [5] - 9853:19,

9871:27, 9885:28,

9901:47, 9956:44

addressed [2] -

9870:27, 9903:26

adequate [6] -

9857:46, 9879:35,

9930:5, 9936:38,

9936:39, 9961:9

adequately [2] -

9887:10, 9887:29

ADJOURNED [1] -

9962:38

adjournment [1] -

9907:41

ADJOURNMENT [2] -

9884:24, 9907:43

adjusted [2] -

9855:12, 9891:31

adjustment [1] -

.16/10/2014 (93)


2

9853:28

administer [1] -

9918:27

administered [1] -

9919:6

administration [12] -

9857:26, 9868:16,

9870:17, 9906:6,

9906:7, 9907:35,

9910:13, 9915:7,

9918:24, 9931:47,

9932:2

administrative [2] -

9896:46, 9960:6

administrator [2] -

9886:23, 9887:44

admissions [1] -

9887:8

adopt [2] - 9855:19,

9937:45

adopted [4] - 9856:6,

9878:39, 9879:6,

9936:26

adversely [1] -

9889:27

advertised [1] -

9957:1

advice [9] - 9854:18,

9904:26, 9913:2,

9925:19, 9926:12,

9927:32, 9931:8,

9942:34, 9942:39

advise [10] - 9869:29,

9898:29, 9911:30,

9915:5, 9915:26,

9929:24, 9929:25,

9932:1, 9932:3,

9939:5

advised [10] -

9903:39, 9904:7,

9911:18, 9914:27,

9915:10, 9926:16,

9931:12, 9932:5,

9935:5, 9939:44

advising [1] - 9958:43

advisor [1] - 9890:4

affect [1] - 9956:13

affected [1] - 9889:27

affiliate [1] - 9948:41

affiliated [9] -

9919:11, 9939:12,

9945:44, 9946:38,

9949:26, 9954:38,

9954:43, 9957:32,

9960:17

affiliation [2] -

9955:21, 9955:32

affirming [1] - 9867:40

afternoon [2] -

9875:42, 9953:40

afterwards [2] -

9880:27, 9929:35

agenda [7] - 9912:11,

9912:14, 9912:16,

9912:22, 9912:24,

9932:36, 9932:38

aggrieved [1] -

9916:12

ago [3] - 9905:17,

9949:17, 9959:38

agree [14] - 9859:44,

9863:3, 9871:43,

9877:10, 9877:44,

9881:38, 9891:42,

9896:34, 9896:40,

9906:45, 9919:3,

9925:13, 9937:3,

9946:24

agreed [3] - 9911:9,

9929:41, 9932:8

agreement [1] -

9932:9

ahead [2] - 9907:30,

9920:25

aired [1] - 9898:47

ALA [46] - 9855:3,

9855:4, 9863:23,

9863:35, 9863:47,

9867:45, 9870:11,

9870:16, 9870:20,

9880:4, 9880:26,

9882:41, 9882:45,

9883:6, 9886:37,

9889:28, 9890:18,

9891:4, 9895:30,

9908:13, 9914:33,

9915:6, 9918:30,

9919:32, 9920:20,

9920:27, 9921:15,

9922:27, 9923:23,

9923:32, 9926:37,

9927:4, 9927:21,

9929:37, 9932:32,

9933:29, 9933:44,

9933:47, 9935:7,

9941:40, 9944:4,

9944:15, 9945:25,

9950:27

ALA] [1] - 9863:22

ALA]'s [13] - 9863:31,

9863:36, 9864:37,

9867:37, 9868:3,

9874:7, 9892:7,

9914:41, 9916:27,

9920:39, 9922:36,

9934:8, 9944:25

albeit [2] - 9875:34,

9901:3

ALC [1] - 9950:36

Alcorn [4] - 9894:27,

9928:37, 9937:33,

9961:43

ALD [25] - 9870:42,

9884:31, 9884:32,

9884:34, 9884:41,

9885:5, 9885:34,

9886:42, 9887:12,

9893:2, 9897:42,

9897:47, 9898:13,

9901:4, 9905:32,

9908:10, 9922:40,

9923:10, 9923:11,

9926:24, 9927:40,

9928:11, 9933:32,

9950:35, 9952:15

ALD] [3] - 9880:6,

9924:26, 9953:39

ALD]" [1] - 9898:6

ALD]'s [4] - 9867:8,

9874:3, 9923:14,

9926:35

alerting [1] - 9931:33

aligned [1] - 9891:31

allegation [1] -

9862:41

allegations [9] -

9861:47, 9868:19,

9903:29, 9904:40,

9906:34, 9913:27,

9918:11, 9932:45,

9939:15

alleviate [1] - 9867:44

allocated [2] -

9912:34, 9919:30

allow [2] - 9940:1,

9947:25

allowed [2] - 9888:39,

9921:28

alluded [2] - 9912:11,

9926:15

almost [1] - 9943:42

alone [1] - 9869:36

Amanda [1] - 9856:14

amendments [1] -

9853:36

amount [1] - 9934:38

analysis [2] - 9860:20,

9860:37

anger [1] - 9943:39

angry [3] - 9944:26,

9944:34, 9944:44

Ann [1] - 9852:34

Ansvar [1] - 9886:10

answer [20] - 9859:8,

9866:33, 9868:1,

9873:28, 9879:32,

9880:10, 9888:18,

9888:40, 9889:29,

9895:31, 9912:36,

9931:7, 9938:33,

9945:20, 9945:38,

9946:47, 9947:3,

9949:23, 9955:13,

9956:1

answered [5] -

9853:37, 9934:42,

9944:41, 9947:4,

9950:31

answering [2] -

9925:5, 9956:40

answers [1] - 9883:37

anyway [2] - 9896:16,

9917:43

AO [1] - 9852:35

AOG [20] - 9868:7,

9871:27, 9871:38,

9874:1, 9885:27,

9885:40, 9886:36,

9886:43, 9887:9,

9887:13, 9887:34,

9887:35, 9890:21,

9890:26, 9890:38,

9921:28, 9924:41,

9929:38, 9942:21,

9959:41

AOG's [1] - 9922:26

APM [1] - 9852:35

apologies [1] -

9929:14

apologise [3] -

9915:22, 9925:9,

9947:22

apparent [5] -

9866:39, 9904:22,

9908:47, 9909:7,

9926:21

appear [2] - 9937:1,

9951:1

appearance [6] -

9860:4, 9860:18,

9860:22, 9860:26,

9860:32, 9860:41

appeared [2] -

9929:19, 9936:29

application [3] -

9918:8, 9918:9,

9918:21

applied [2] - 9855:20,

9857:33

apply [2] - 9918:14,

9956:39

applying [1] - 9917:46

appointed [1] -

9912:26

appointees [1] -

9877:27

appreciate [2] -

9867:36, 9945:19

appreciation [1] -

9936:17

approach [2] -

9869:21, 9923:31

approached [4] -

9884:46, 9900:2,

9937:20, 9950:26

approaches [1] -

9920:20

appropriate [13] -

9861:37, 9891:30,

9893:15, 9906:41,

9912:2, 9924:40,

9926:33, 9929:29,

9931:13, 9936:35,

9937:32, 9961:25

appropriately [2] -

9913:36, 9955:38

approval [1] - 9857:21

approved [1] -

9857:29

April [3] - 9928:26,

9928:27, 9929:10

area [2] - 9875:35,

9901:26

areas [4] - 9857:35,

9857:38, 9960:6,

9961:4

arise [1] - 9889:34

arising [8] - 9892:26,

9899:34, 9901:13,

9901:15, 9912:35,

9956:25, 9956:27,

9959:31

arm [3] - 9890:41,

9890:46, 9890:47

arose [1] - 9908:9

arranged [1] - 9945:29

arrangements [1] -

9886:10

arrest [9] - 9931:23,

9938:22, 9938:41,

9938:43, 9938:47,

9939:2, 9939:19,

9939:23, 9939:30

arrested [1] - 9931:22

arriving [1] - 9863:16

articles [1] - 9959:1

articulate [1] -

9947:22

ascertained [1] -

9905:29

Ashley [9] - 9853:38,

9854:1, 9891:34,

9893:24, 9903:39,

9903:47, 9951:11,

9951:23, 9951:27

aspect [1] - 9886:22

assault [4] - 9903:44,

9913:3, 9913:6

Assemblies [45] -

9853:12, 9853:13,

.16/10/2014 (93)


3

9856:31, 9856:33,

9857:16, 9858:2,

9859:6, 9861:41,

9865:47, 9868:15,

9868:44, 9868:47,

9869:11, 9869:21,

9870:45, 9871:5,

9871:13, 9872:34,

9873:25, 9873:32,

9874:8, 9874:29,

9874:30, 9874:37,

9876:2, 9883:11,

9887:17, 9890:41,

9893:28, 9897:6,

9900:31, 9913:21,

9913:31, 9914:5,

9914:21, 9914:41,

9918:46, 9919:12,

9921:10, 9923:31,

9929:15, 9929:46,

9930:32, 9949:18,

9958:15

ASSEMBLIES [1] -

9958:22

assembly [1] - 9883:5

assets [1] - 9890:2

Assist [1] - 9959:41

assist [14] - 9860:17,

9866:29, 9866:38,

9871:12, 9881:40,

9883:6, 9890:25,

9898:47, 9900:18,

9900:33, 9904:22,

9911:11, 9920:9,

9961:17

assistance [10] -

9863:47, 9874:13,

9874:17, 9881:4,

9886:4, 9887:4,

9916:29, 9934:31,

9937:17, 9944:8

assistant [2] -

9894:14, 9899:9

assisted [6] - 9857:3,

9869:9, 9873:24,

9873:28, 9881:12,

9881:22

assisting [1] -

9961:18

Assisting [11] -

9852:40, 9879:20,

9880:7, 9880:17,

9881:17, 9938:16,

9939:42, 9947:15,

9953:5, 9957:9,

9959:11

associated [1] -

9942:20

assume [6] - 9920:18,

9922:28, 9937:40,

9943:22, 9946:46,

9955:7

assumed [3] -

9902:45, 9905:6,

9915:9

AT [2] - 9962:38,

9962:39

Atkinson [3] -

9852:35, 9855:33,

9908:5

atmosphere [3] -

9867:11, 9899:38,

9900:1

attempt [3] - 9915:5,

9915:39, 9944:47

attend [3] - 9896:31,

9896:41, 9960:36

attendance [1] -

9901:33

attended [3] -

9858:10, 9896:32,

9896:35

attendee [1] - 9945:22

attendees [3] -

9913:45, 9947:45,

9957:5

attending [3] - 9858:8,

9883:10, 9919:6

attention [6] -

9862:19, 9904:46,

9911:41, 9920:38,

9924:13, 9925:10

audible [1] - 9863:45

audit [1] - 9960:37

August [3] - 9928:46,

9929:11, 9943:27

Australia [4] -

9901:27, 9927:5,

9947:7, 9959:43

Australian [18] -

9858:3, 9868:7,

9868:45, 9872:20,

9872:21, 9872:46,

9873:7, 9873:20,

9873:26, 9874:38,

9884:17, 9890:45,

9891:17, 9893:29,

9902:28, 9945:23,

9947:46, 9949:21

authored [2] -

9908:34, 9908:35

authorised [1] -

9928:21

authorities [1] -

9913:17

authority [1] - 9882:13

automatically [2] -

9866:6, 9917:38

autonomous [8] -

9872:37, 9883:31,

9887:18, 9900:24,

9900:27, 9913:43,

9916:45, 9947:47

autonomy [1] -

9913:34

avail [1] - 9936:37

availability [1] -

9885:45

available [16] -

9859:9, 9859:11,

9859:13, 9893:45,

9895:11, 9900:18,

9900:33, 9900:36,

9924:31, 9929:44,

9930:2, 9932:14,

9960:4, 9960:22,

9960:27, 9962:12

availed [1] - 9937:1

avenue [1] - 9932:14

avoid [3] - 9860:4,

9860:22, 9890:1

avoiding [1] - 9860:41

awaits [1] - 9868:23

awards [1] - 9934:5

aware [102] - 9856:22,

9857:42, 9858:9,

9861:40, 9866:12,

9867:27, 9869:25,

9870:26, 9873:31,

9873:47, 9874:35,

9874:45, 9875:47,

9876:4, 9876:34,

9879:28, 9880:23,

9886:8, 9886:15,

9887:26, 9887:34,

9887:36, 9888:9,

9888:10, 9895:2,

9895:4, 9895:10,

9898:22, 9898:30,

9900:30, 9900:32,

9900:35, 9901:23,

9903:27, 9903:30,

9903:37, 9904:34,

9904:45, 9905:18,

9905:44, 9905:47,

9906:18, 9906:23,

9906:24, 9907:21,

9907:24, 9907:25,

9910:17, 9910:29,

9910:33, 9911:29,

9912:40, 9913:2,

9916:7, 9917:6,

9917:11, 9917:12,

9918:38, 9918:43,

9919:18, 9919:21,

9919:25, 9919:45,

9920:20, 9920:43,

9920:45, 9923:9,

9923:11, 9924:3,

9924:5, 9926:15,

9928:38, 9931:1,

9932:18, 9933:42,

9934:18, 9939:15,

9939:19, 9939:29,

9939:33, 9939:34,

9940:6, 9940:8,

9940:41, 9943:1,

9949:20, 9950:35,

9951:18, 9951:19,

9955:14, 9955:22,

9955:23, 9956:5,

9956:6, 9956:11,

9956:21, 9956:22,

9959:23, 9961:12

Bbackground [1] -

9857:12

Baldwin [50] - 9864:2,

9864:28, 9864:30,

9865:38, 9865:41,

9866:2, 9867:22,

9869:19, 9870:43,

9877:6, 9888:4,

9888:8, 9890:12,

9891:38, 9899:39,

9903:15, 9903:20,

9903:28, 9903:38,

9903:40, 9904:30,

9904:41, 9905:2,

9905:5, 9905:11,

9907:22, 9907:25,

9908:14, 9910:18,

9910:30, 9915:8,

9917:35, 9924:3,

9925:39, 9930:21,

9931:22, 9931:25,

9931:32, 9931:40,

9932:31, 9935:6,

9938:19, 9938:22,

9938:31, 9938:41,

9939:7, 9941:47,

9954:31, 9955:31

Baldwin's [9] -

9866:31, 9892:10,

9892:31, 9892:36,

9910:5, 9915:14,

9915:27, 9938:43,

9938:47

ball [1] - 9945:35

Bar [1] - 9962:11

based [9] - 9856:22,

9898:45, 9934:21,

9935:18, 9935:25,

9936:4, 9936:5,

9945:26, 9949:35

baseline [1] - 9858:28

basis [17] - 9859:13,

9864:7, 9883:34,

9884:2, 9896:43,

9896:45, 9908:42,

9908:45, 9910:39,

9917:20, 9917:27,

9934:24, 9939:41,

9939:46, 9940:2,

9944:20, 9944:28

bear [1] - 9935:26

became [11] -

9869:25, 9902:44,

9903:27, 9903:30,

9904:45, 9917:12,

9926:15, 9943:1,

9951:18, 9951:19,

9961:12

Beckett [9] - 9852:40,

9853:1, 9899:32,

9907:45, 9910:2,

9935:19, 9938:7,

9954:21, 9962:1

BECKETT [40] -

9853:4, 9853:9,

9853:11, 9854:30,

9854:35, 9855:30,

9855:37, 9874:47,

9899:34, 9901:15,

9901:37, 9901:41,

9901:43, 9902:13,

9902:19, 9907:38,

9907:47, 9908:9,

9910:3, 9915:22,

9925:7, 9933:10,

9933:24, 9934:42,

9935:12, 9935:31,

9938:5, 9954:23,

9956:27, 9957:12,

9958:5, 9958:14,

9959:14, 9959:31,

9959:36, 9961:34,

9961:41, 9962:3,

9962:10, 9962:34

become [6] - 9866:12,

9882:17, 9911:29,

9919:21, 9933:42,

9959:41

becomes [1] - 9882:17

becoming [1] -

9893:28

began [1] - 9961:12

begin [1] - 9887:20

beginning [2] -

9866:27, 9951:43

begins [1] - 9921:23

behalf [6] - 9872:33,

9884:13, 9889:31,

9898:19, 9951:2,

9962:23

Behaviour [2] -

9861:2, 9861:15

behaviour [2] -

9861:11, 9935:6

.16/10/2014 (93)


4

behind [3] - 9859:37,

9860:27, 9921:29

belief [2] - 9875:13,

9875:36

below [1] - 9922:42

bench [2] - 9957:13,

9958:16

benefit [7] - 9866:11,

9891:22, 9891:23,

9908:39, 9930:37,

9947:20, 9960:12

best [16] - 9853:26,

9857:46, 9869:36,

9872:30, 9872:39,

9879:35, 9880:11,

9889:17, 9890:34,

9891:45, 9901:1,

9902:10, 9903:20,

9943:11, 9946:9,

9956:4

better [5] - 9857:38,

9860:44, 9869:14,

9881:43, 9945:6

between [29] -

9854:40, 9857:43,

9866:30, 9866:43,

9867:26, 9867:30,

9874:42, 9874:43,

9879:29, 9882:12,

9905:6, 9905:36,

9905:39, 9905:42,

9906:1, 9906:46,

9907:4, 9911:10,

9914:32, 9914:33,

9916:30, 9916:31,

9916:44, 9919:27,

9919:28, 9920:27,

9939:30, 9943:12,

9943:40

bewilderment [1] -

9900:13

beyond [5] - 9863:11,

9863:16, 9869:36,

9887:31, 9890:35

bible [2] - 9860:4,

9860:11

big [1] - 9900:37

bit [4] - 9871:34,

9882:25, 9894:4,

9900:24

blind [1] - 9883:10

blue [6] - 9956:39,

9957:37, 9957:41,

9957:42, 9957:43,

9958:44

board [27] - 9857:29,

9864:36, 9872:2,

9872:3, 9872:7,

9876:20, 9876:21,

9876:24, 9876:36,

9877:22, 9877:27,

9883:20, 9884:14,

9884:16, 9886:9,

9888:21, 9888:25,

9888:27, 9889:23,

9891:28, 9896:4,

9930:41, 9931:8,

9937:46, 9947:13,

9955:39, 9962:11

bodies [3] - 9906:12,

9906:13, 9914:14

body [2] - 9937:32,

9937:33

Bondi [1] - 9949:22

bottom [4] - 9893:8,

9957:26, 9959:4,

9960:31

boxes [1] - 9861:6

branch [4] - 9853:40,

9853:44, 9856:32,

9864:36

breach [2] - 9883:15,

9883:21

break [2] - 9884:22,

9884:30

breakdown [1] -

9927:41

breaking [1] - 9892:21

brethren [1] - 9860:10

brief [1] - 9959:32

briefly [1] - 9957:41

bring [1] - 9924:12

bringing [1] - 9920:38

Brisbane [1] - 9928:39

broad [1] - 9910:26

broader [5] - 9887:25,

9887:26, 9946:3,

9946:40, 9947:41

broke [1] - 9899:39

broken [1] - 9882:2

Broome [4] - 9874:39,

9918:31, 9944:30,

9945:26

brought [10] - 9856:5,

9859:25, 9862:18,

9870:25, 9891:21,

9891:22, 9895:22,

9898:3, 9924:9,

9953:3

bundle [18] - 9870:26,

9871:47, 9873:39,

9876:40, 9880:5,

9884:35, 9887:43,

9893:3, 9895:22,

9895:46, 9897:43,

9898:3, 9909:8,

9919:41, 9922:34,

9925:23, 9928:25,

9953:4

business [11] -

9857:25, 9876:35,

9886:23, 9887:44,

9889:5, 9889:30,

9890:3, 9890:28,

9890:40, 9890:46,

9890:47

BY [11] - 9853:9,

9880:2, 9891:14,

9897:18, 9901:21,

9901:41, 9938:11,

9941:38, 9950:46,

9952:47, 9956:31

Ccalendar [2] - 9856:6,

9917:39

callous [2] - 9925:14,

9942:30

cancelled [2] -

9868:29, 9917:32

cannot [1] - 9868:31

capable [1] - 9947:23

capacity [3] - 9872:34,

9890:22, 9949:40

car [1] - 9933:46

card [6] - 9956:39,

9957:37, 9957:41,

9957:42, 9957:43,

9958:44

cards [1] - 9957:40

care [7] - 9871:21,

9881:35, 9883:15,

9903:1, 9914:25,

9930:5, 9952:32

cared [2] - 9917:1,

9946:34

carried [1] - 9884:43

carry [1] - 9872:38

case [36] - 9854:11,

9855:8, 9862:18,

9862:33, 9870:7,

9876:8, 9879:39,

9882:31, 9882:38,

9889:12, 9890:15,

9896:23, 9900:46,

9906:23, 9912:19,

9912:21, 9912:25,

9912:34, 9914:19,

9915:30, 9915:35,

9915:39, 9916:38,

9919:20, 9927:29,

9928:38, 9932:43,

9936:21, 9937:29,

9937:40, 9940:42,

9942:31, 9946:45,

9947:30

Case [7] - 9852:17,

9853:2, 9906:19,

9914:3, 9956:16,

9961:28, 9961:42

cases [1] - 9937:28

casual [1] - 9859:19

catastrophe [1] -

9955:17

catastrophic [1] -

9954:39

category [1] - 9892:47

caught [3] - 9860:33,

9860:35, 9865:42

caused [1] - 9943:17

causes [2] - 9904:44,

9906:40

causing [2] - 9889:2,

9889:11

certain [9] - 9859:40,

9866:27, 9877:44,

9880:31, 9887:19,

9892:1, 9898:11,

9909:13, 9937:46

certainly [48] -

9861:45, 9863:15,

9865:15, 9868:5,

9876:36, 9879:17,

9891:47, 9892:7,

9899:2, 9904:25,

9906:21, 9912:2,

9912:3, 9913:33,

9914:24, 9916:14,

9916:47, 9917:25,

9919:24, 9921:4,

9921:15, 9921:39,

9923:41, 9930:1,

9931:8, 9931:12,

9932:7, 9932:16,

9935:4, 9936:14,

9937:11, 9937:28,

9937:29, 9939:22,

9943:33, 9944:29,

9946:13, 9946:14,

9946:17, 9946:27,

9954:40, 9955:24,

9955:38, 9956:12,

9961:31, 9962:10,

9962:14

cetera [4] - 9858:37,

9874:40, 9887:28

chair [1] - 9886:9

chairman [8] -

9876:21, 9876:34,

9877:25, 9883:20,

9884:14, 9888:25,

9888:27, 9889:23

chance [1] - 9876:46

change [5] - 9853:32,

9891:20, 9891:26,

9891:34, 9899:42

changed [5] -

9858:43, 9859:26,

9866:9, 9872:43,

9912:30

Changes [1] - 9877:14

changes [8] - 9854:6,

9856:46, 9857:42,

9858:45, 9864:39,

9865:2, 9879:29,

9902:20

channel [1] - 9893:40

charge [7] - 9867:26,

9903:43, 9914:33,

9916:30, 9916:31,

9932:8, 9943:4

charged [12] -

9864:28, 9865:23,

9891:39, 9903:20,

9903:28, 9903:40,

9906:33, 9912:22,

9912:25, 9913:3,

9915:44, 9937:25

charges [21] -

9864:30, 9864:46,

9865:17, 9866:13,

9901:11, 9904:23,

9904:28, 9904:31,

9905:10, 9905:37,

9910:17, 9910:37,

9910:47, 9911:35,

9913:13, 9913:20,

9914:27, 9923:16,

9932:18, 9932:24,

9941:43

charging [9] - 9864:1,

9866:30, 9866:43,

9866:44, 9899:39,

9903:15, 9931:39,

9938:30, 9943:44

check [1] - 9957:44

checked [1] - 9855:31

checklist [1] - 9960:37

checks [1] - 9956:36

Child [6] - 9862:1,

9877:7, 9877:13,

9878:3, 9932:46,

9961:9

child [66] - 9855:20,

9855:38, 9856:2,

9856:9, 9856:26,

9856:41, 9857:5,

9857:36, 9858:9,

9858:33, 9859:7,

9860:26, 9860:47,

9861:12, 9861:47,

9862:23, 9862:24,

9862:30, 9862:41,

9863:4, 9865:39,

9874:30, 9875:8,

9875:35, 9875:43,

9876:9, 9876:15,

9876:29, 9876:33,

9877:33, 9878:38,

9896:18, 9901:26,

.16/10/2014 (93)


5

9903:10, 9903:28,

9905:37, 9906:34,

9912:42, 9913:12,

9913:27, 9914:20,

9918:10, 9918:45,

9929:45, 9932:46,

9934:13, 9934:38,

9936:25, 9936:32,

9937:26, 9939:15,

9939:32, 9940:23,

9942:15, 9942:47,

9943:40, 9949:37,

9955:33, 9955:40,

9956:35, 9957:32,

9961:3, 9961:20,

9961:23

CHILD [1] - 9852:13

children [12] -

9855:40, 9857:10,

9858:26, 9859:45,

9859:46, 9867:31,

9906:35, 9906:36,

9907:23, 9927:6,

9957:45, 9960:11

children's [18] -

9856:20, 9856:25,

9856:28, 9856:47,

9857:41, 9858:18,

9858:29, 9858:36,

9859:5, 9859:14,

9861:16, 9861:36,

9862:47, 9863:8,

9875:17, 9875:30,

9879:27, 9960:10

Chowdhury [9] -

9865:30, 9884:3,

9891:12, 9891:16,

9901:17, 9952:45,

9956:29, 9957:18,

9959:37

CHOWDHURY [28] -

9883:29, 9884:6,

9891:14, 9891:16,

9897:12, 9901:19,

9901:21, 9901:23,

9901:30, 9915:20,

9925:4, 9944:36,

9945:18, 9947:10,

9948:30, 9950:42,

9952:47, 9953:2,

9954:19, 9956:31,

9956:33, 9957:16,

9957:20, 9958:24,

9959:10, 9959:18,

9959:29, 9962:14

Chris [3] - 9872:2,

9898:5, 9952:14

christian [1] - 9853:17

Christian [20] -

9853:4, 9858:3,

9868:7, 9868:45,

9872:20, 9872:21,

9872:46, 9873:7,

9873:20, 9873:26,

9874:38, 9884:17,

9890:45, 9891:17,

9893:29, 9902:28,

9945:23, 9947:46,

9949:22, 9951:2

CHRISTIAN [2] -

9853:7, 9854:32

chronology [2] -

9864:27, 9888:9

CHURCH [1] - 9958:12

Church [28] - 9854:36,

9855:15, 9855:19,

9857:34, 9858:16,

9858:26, 9858:34,

9862:40, 9863:8,

9863:28, 9867:12,

9867:44, 9872:4,

9885:35, 9886:8,

9886:32, 9896:5,

9898:37, 9920:6,

9932:31, 9933:28,

9934:3, 9935:34,

9949:22, 9958:7,

9959:39, 9960:35,

9961:27

church [149] -

9854:45, 9855:20,

9856:18, 9857:30,

9859:5, 9861:20,

9861:28, 9862:22,

9863:23, 9863:24,

9866:3, 9869:35,

9871:6, 9875:11,

9875:33, 9876:20,

9876:36, 9878:39,

9879:2, 9879:6,

9879:11, 9880:39,

9881:3, 9882:37,

9882:44, 9883:1,

9883:21, 9883:31,

9884:13, 9884:33,

9884:35, 9885:7,

9885:19, 9885:27,

9886:11, 9886:20,

9886:29, 9886:43,

9887:1, 9888:24,

9888:33, 9889:3,

9889:7, 9889:12,

9889:23, 9889:27,

9890:2, 9890:6,

9890:21, 9892:13,

9892:26, 9897:21,

9900:6, 9901:24,

9901:27, 9909:29,

9911:24, 9911:47,

9913:31, 9913:33,

9913:34, 9913:46,

9915:9, 9915:11,

9915:14, 9915:23,

9915:30, 9915:31,

9915:36, 9916:23,

9917:2, 9918:46,

9919:7, 9919:11,

9921:10, 9921:27,

9921:42, 9921:47,

9922:9, 9925:41,

9925:44, 9929:45,

9930:3, 9930:36,

9930:40, 9930:41,

9930:42, 9931:11,

9931:14, 9934:15,

9934:47, 9936:2,

9936:10, 9936:13,

9936:14, 9936:15,

9936:26, 9936:27,

9936:31, 9936:32,

9937:20, 9937:23,

9937:35, 9937:45,

9945:10, 9945:12,

9945:13, 9945:14,

9945:16, 9945:22,

9945:39, 9945:43,

9945:44, 9946:1,

9946:2, 9946:10,

9946:11, 9946:25,

9946:28, 9946:38,

9946:40, 9946:41,

9946:42, 9947:6,

9947:45, 9948:12,

9948:15, 9948:20,

9948:27, 9948:35,

9948:46, 9948:47,

9949:8, 9949:11,

9950:18, 9954:38,

9954:43, 9955:2,

9955:21, 9955:32,

9956:7, 9956:8,

9956:12, 9956:46,

9959:4, 9961:30

Church" [1] - 9854:46

church's [3] -

9885:10, 9885:15,

9889:41

Churches [14] -

9858:3, 9868:7,

9868:45, 9872:20,

9872:46, 9873:21,

9873:26, 9874:38,

9884:17, 9891:17,

9893:29, 9902:28,

9945:23, 9947:46

churches [35] -

9876:1, 9892:12,

9898:39, 9898:42,

9903:2, 9913:43,

9913:45, 9916:45,

9942:20, 9946:3,

9947:43, 9947:44,

9947:47, 9948:18,

9948:42, 9949:19,

9949:20, 9949:26,

9950:11, 9954:29,

9956:14, 9956:45,

9957:4, 9957:32,

9959:42, 9960:5,

9960:17, 9960:19,

9960:30, 9960:36,

9960:44, 9961:9,

9961:13, 9961:17,

9961:18

circuit [2] - 9927:24,

9928:31

circulated [1] -

9856:24

circumstance [2] -

9917:45, 9955:42

circumstances [7] -

9880:40, 9912:35,

9915:33, 9917:37,

9917:42, 9955:46,

9962:30

civil [9] - 9883:22,

9886:18, 9888:25,

9888:33, 9888:46,

9889:15, 9889:27,

9890:8, 9898:19

claim [8] - 9886:19,

9898:18, 9921:36,

9921:38, 9921:41,

9922:27, 9925:31,

9926:15

claims [1] - 9925:25

clarification [3] -

9853:29, 9853:33,

9909:10

clarified [1] - 9853:38

clarify [2] - 9933:10,

9953:3

clarifying [1] -

9905:35

clarity [1] - 9908:39

clear [9] - 9909:24,

9918:5, 9918:25,

9923:21, 9925:15,

9931:43, 9935:31,

9944:24, 9946:18

cleared [1] - 9910:47

clearly [6] - 9870:44,

9883:16, 9923:16,

9924:33, 9929:34,

9931:46

client [3] - 9909:12,

9946:39, 9948:6

client's [1] - 9947:20

clients [1] - 9947:20

clinical [2] - 9927:33,

9929:31

close [2] - 9898:27,

9928:39

closed [1] - 9935:7

closer [1] - 9853:43

cloud [1] - 9887:20

co [1] - 9900:25

co-ordination [1] -

9900:25

Coast [35] - 9854:36,

9854:45, 9855:15,

9855:18, 9857:34,

9858:15, 9858:26,

9858:33, 9862:40,

9863:8, 9863:28,

9867:12, 9867:44,

9872:4, 9885:35,

9886:32, 9891:43,

9892:14, 9892:26,

9896:5, 9898:37,

9907:27, 9917:40,

9917:41, 9919:8,

9920:6, 9932:31,

9933:28, 9934:1,

9934:3, 9935:3,

9935:34, 9953:4,

9957:2, 9961:27

coast [1] - 9866:15

Coate [1] - 9852:34

code [3] - 9865:38,

9918:6, 9950:7

Code [1] - 9910:26

cold [2] - 9927:33,

9929:31

collection [1] -

9875:38

coming [6] - 9855:13,

9856:5, 9858:25,

9859:12, 9876:17,

9930:27

commence [2] -

9961:45, 9962:31

commenced [2] -

9855:14, 9875:32

comment [17] -

9886:47, 9904:25,

9906:43, 9907:12,

9908:32, 9917:34,

9918:14, 9920:12,

9924:31, 9931:4,

9937:36, 9938:39,

9944:15, 9954:3,

9955:27, 9955:47,

9961:11

commentary [1] -

9892:4

commenting [2] -

9908:22, 9908:24

comments [3] -

9908:16, 9908:20,

9939:41

.16/10/2014 (93)


6

Commission [29] -

9853:16, 9853:19,

9853:23, 9865:46,

9875:39, 9897:26,

9898:46, 9899:1,

9899:26, 9901:44,

9901:47, 9902:6,

9903:23, 9904:27,

9908:2, 9908:39,

9909:8, 9909:18,

9909:44, 9934:26,

9934:31, 9939:32,

9944:25, 9947:21,

9950:26, 9951:47,

9957:8, 9958:2,

9962:15

COMMISSION [2] -

9852:12, 9962:38

Commissioner [6] -

9852:35, 9855:33,

9879:45, 9908:5,

9909:47, 9941:32

commitment [1] -

9927:4

committed [2] -

9889:7, 9943:7

committee [8] -

9876:23, 9878:16,

9878:21, 9878:28,

9878:40, 9879:7,

9879:13, 9897:3

common [3] - 9913:5,

9915:29, 9915:32

commonality [1] -

9900:25

Commonwealth [2] -

9944:27, 9959:6

communicate [5] -

9911:46, 9915:40,

9927:20, 9932:10,

9933:17

communicated [4] -

9862:46, 9865:24,

9904:3, 9927:17

communicating [1] -

9904:23

communication [12] -

9854:9, 9865:27,

9871:2, 9871:44,

9878:10, 9887:27,

9906:46, 9916:23,

9920:27, 9928:18,

9928:20, 9953:5

communications [5] -

9896:24, 9908:11,

9927:42, 9934:2,

9936:3

community [1] -

9862:32

company [8] -

9886:21, 9889:45,

9890:27, 9891:6,

9921:30, 9922:10,

9942:34, 9943:11

compensate [1] -

9883:23

compensated [1] -

9890:26

compensating [1] -

9883:6

compensation [5] -

9883:31, 9886:19,

9890:8, 9921:18,

9925:31

competencies [2] -

9857:11, 9859:28

competent [2] -

9858:30, 9859:23

complainant's [1] -

9892:27

complaint [5] -

9864:37, 9892:25,

9933:20, 9933:22,

9955:34

complete [1] -

9927:41

completely [1] -

9856:26

compliance [4] -

9956:45, 9956:46,

9960:39, 9961:20

compliant [1] -

9961:14

complying [1] -

9959:6

component [1] -

9871:11

comprehensive [1] -

9875:26

comprehensively [1] -

9932:42

computer [1] -

9894:46

conceded [1] -

9893:19

concern [11] -

9872:45, 9873:25,

9881:2, 9883:14,

9884:32, 9888:46,

9889:22, 9923:3,

9925:11, 9935:21,

9962:6

concerned [15] -

9862:35, 9868:20,

9873:32, 9874:7,

9884:46, 9885:16,

9885:39, 9888:25,

9888:32, 9889:2,

9889:11, 9923:27,

9932:3, 9938:40,

9947:16

concerning [13] -

9854:10, 9872:47,

9885:44, 9898:29,

9905:4, 9905:5,

9908:13, 9910:4,

9930:37, 9931:39,

9933:44, 9934:9,

9938:29

concerns [23] -

9859:25, 9860:46,

9861:11, 9865:5,

9872:28, 9881:11,

9883:37, 9909:31,

9920:21, 9930:19,

9933:17, 9935:5,

9935:40, 9936:19,

9939:44, 9940:7,

9940:10, 9940:16,

9940:21, 9940:22,

9940:35, 9940:37,

9940:41

conclude [1] -

9921:40

concluded [1] -

9917:39

concluding [1] -

9940:16

conclusion [2] -

9901:11, 9946:15

conclusions [2] -

9935:17, 9935:26

conduct [11] -

9859:32, 9859:41,

9859:45, 9865:38,

9914:4, 9918:6,

9936:25, 9950:7,

9954:47, 9955:1,

9961:12

conducted [10] -

9876:23, 9876:25,

9931:9, 9940:46,

9955:30, 9956:46,

9957:1, 9959:22,

9960:36, 9961:32

conducting [1] -

9959:6

conducts [1] -

9957:44

conference [1] -

9896:38

conferences [5] -

9858:9, 9882:12,

9896:28, 9896:31,

9896:34

confirm [1] - 9926:14

confirming [1] -

9926:27

conflict [8] - 9867:30,

9930:20, 9930:31,

9930:36, 9930:39,

9930:43, 9930:46,

9931:10

confused [1] - 9958:5

congregation [25] -

9863:27, 9867:12,

9867:16, 9867:21,

9867:28, 9867:38,

9868:41, 9868:46,

9869:10, 9869:14,

9884:46, 9887:19,

9889:31, 9899:38,

9899:40, 9899:42,

9900:13, 9900:19,

9900:26, 9900:34,

9912:43, 9947:35,

9949:9, 9949:15

congregations [1] -

9927:5

connect [3] - 9882:8,

9899:6, 9901:9

connecting [1] -

9890:3

connection [7] -

9872:23, 9882:38,

9882:46, 9898:28,

9899:19, 9913:44,

9958:15

CONNECTION [1] -

9958:21

Connection [2] -

9958:25, 9958:26

conscientious [1] -

9941:2

consider [8] - 9866:3,

9906:40, 9915:7,

9917:25, 9931:37,

9938:27, 9955:18,

9959:23

considerable [4] -

9894:7, 9923:22,

9932:44, 9954:37

consideration [2] -

9906:47, 9922:27

considered [5] -

9867:22, 9869:40,

9870:1, 9914:9,

9925:32

considering [1] -

9878:37

considers [1] -

9865:47

consists [1] - 9947:43

constant [4] -

9937:38, 9955:6,

9955:7, 9955:39

constantly [6] -

9858:39, 9875:29,

9879:9, 9880:29,

9903:5, 9959:27

constitution [5] -

9913:46, 9948:21,

9948:47, 9950:9,

9960:12

construed [2] -

9923:37, 9923:38

consultation [1] -

9888:22

contact [44] - 9866:7,

9866:9, 9868:47,

9869:5, 9870:47,

9872:11, 9872:27,

9887:9, 9895:15,

9903:6, 9905:26,

9906:36, 9914:32,

9914:40, 9916:40,

9919:28, 9920:12,

9925:15, 9925:17,

9925:30, 9925:43,

9927:45, 9928:8,

9928:11, 9928:12,

9928:25, 9928:26,

9929:7, 9943:25,

9943:26, 9943:28,

9944:6, 9944:12,

9944:14, 9944:18,

9944:20, 9944:47,

9945:31, 9950:37,

9953:20, 9960:23

contacted [12] -

9865:26, 9873:9,

9873:12, 9885:44,

9886:1, 9886:3,

9890:43, 9904:10,

9904:47, 9905:9,

9920:8, 9929:37

contained [3] -

9908:42, 9909:4,

9927:26

contains [1] - 9873:42

contemplate [1] -

9946:7

content [4] - 9921:47,

9922:10, 9923:47,

9926:27

contention [2] -

9933:15, 9933:22

contents [6] -

9855:46, 9908:22,

9908:24, 9909:14,

9920:43, 9926:14

context [7] - 9883:7,

9923:39, 9924:43,

9940:22, 9940:41,

9955:7

continue [5] -

9915:20, 9915:22,

9922:20, 9931:7,

9931:45

continued [2] -

.16/10/2014 (93)


7

9864:24, 9867:4

continuing [1] -

9943:17

contracts [1] -

9960:10

contribution [1] -

9867:41

conversation [13] -

9872:16, 9898:33,

9907:14, 9934:8,

9934:21, 9936:6,

9940:31, 9945:25,

9953:17, 9953:22,

9953:33, 9953:36,

9954:15

conversations [12] -

9895:29, 9895:35,

9895:42, 9904:29,

9933:32, 9944:6,

9945:27, 9952:14,

9952:19, 9952:22,

9952:30, 9952:40

convey [1] - 9951:27

conveyed [2] -

9864:44, 9881:2

conveying [1] -

9880:47

convicted [15] -

9868:27, 9869:19,

9869:20, 9869:26,

9870:44, 9910:37,

9911:5, 9917:5,

9917:7, 9918:1,

9918:2, 9918:10,

9918:25, 9919:15,

9932:1

conviction [36] -

9866:45, 9867:26,

9874:2, 9874:29,

9880:38, 9888:3,

9888:8, 9890:12,

9892:36, 9911:5,

9911:40, 9914:34,

9916:30, 9916:33,

9916:34, 9917:4,

9917:13, 9917:17,

9917:33, 9918:34,

9918:39, 9919:21,

9921:14, 9923:17,

9931:39, 9932:25,

9936:4, 9938:30,

9939:43, 9940:23,

9940:33, 9940:36,

9941:47, 9954:31,

9955:30, 9959:20

convictions [1] -

9919:26

copies [6] - 9855:33,

9908:4, 9951:22,

9957:13, 9958:14,

9958:16

coping [1] - 9945:10

copy [10] - 9855:26,

9856:36, 9857:20,

9873:44, 9920:1,

9920:31, 9920:39,

9957:8, 9958:16,

9958:34

correct [96] - 9853:26,

9855:32, 9855:41,

9855:44, 9856:3,

9856:4, 9859:37,

9861:12, 9861:24,

9861:25, 9863:17,

9868:24, 9875:12,

9878:27, 9880:45,

9884:6, 9892:16,

9893:20, 9893:24,

9895:30, 9898:38,

9902:1, 9902:4,

9902:10, 9902:29,

9903:45, 9904:13,

9904:16, 9905:33,

9906:13, 9907:32,

9910:14, 9910:19,

9910:40, 9910:46,

9911:7, 9911:15,

9911:43, 9912:5,

9914:7, 9914:12,

9914:35, 9914:37,

9914:43, 9916:9,

9916:42, 9918:28,

9919:8, 9919:22,

9919:34, 9919:38,

9919:39, 9920:15,

9921:11, 9922:32,

9924:21, 9925:20,

9925:21, 9926:29,

9927:28, 9929:8,

9929:16, 9929:21,

9929:39, 9930:13,

9935:46, 9939:21,

9940:3, 9941:44,

9942:6, 9942:32,

9942:44, 9943:5,

9943:14, 9944:10,

9945:12, 9945:24,

9946:27, 9949:10,

9949:38, 9950:1,

9950:6, 9950:17,

9950:19, 9951:12,

9951:35, 9953:6,

9953:7, 9953:27,

9956:41, 9957:34,

9957:42, 9958:45,

9959:8, 9959:39,

9959:44

Correct [11] - 9881:8,

9881:35, 9883:23,

9889:38, 9893:5,

9896:25, 9942:31,

9942:43, 9943:13,

9958:44, 9959:1

correction [1] -

9854:26

correctly [6] -

9890:29, 9949:31,

9950:4, 9951:20,

9957:3, 9958:33

correspondence [2] -

9876:14, 9953:32

counsel [3] - 9864:25,

9947:14, 9962:11

Counsel [10] -

9852:40, 9879:20,

9880:7, 9880:16,

9881:17, 9938:16,

9939:42, 9953:5,

9957:9, 9959:11

counselling [10] -

9864:14, 9864:16,

9870:21, 9872:23,

9885:44, 9886:4,

9923:22, 9929:38,

9944:8, 9945:29

country [1] - 9955:24

couple [4] - 9881:27,

9907:3, 9954:27,

9959:31

course [14] - 9873:21,

9875:22, 9878:40,

9887:40, 9892:7,

9899:12, 9906:42,

9907:34, 9909:17,

9929:32, 9936:16,

9940:45, 9941:15,

9942:14

court [4] - 9890:15,

9900:46, 9945:35,

9954:34

courts [1] - 9867:32

cover [6] - 9857:40,

9871:29, 9879:25,

9885:18, 9885:29,

9960:5

coverage [1] -

9891:42

covered [1] - 9891:46

covers [1] - 9939:23

Craig [1] - 9891:16

create [1] - 9899:17

created [3] - 9857:42,

9879:28, 9899:44

credential [29] -

9866:31, 9868:28,

9870:17, 9907:10,

9907:31, 9910:5,

9910:12, 9910:33,

9910:38, 9911:1,

9912:41, 9913:16,

9913:37, 9915:43,

9916:8, 9917:35,

9917:36, 9917:38,

9917:41, 9917:47,

9918:13, 9918:15,

9918:22, 9924:4,

9939:16, 9939:34,

9956:39, 9958:44,

9960:19

credentialed [9] -

9910:24, 9913:36,

9914:5, 9914:19,

9939:6, 9948:42,

9955:1, 9957:37,

9958:27

credentialing [9] -

9868:6, 9914:22,

9950:6, 9950:7,

9954:28, 9955:9,

9955:12, 9955:20,

9955:31

credentialled [1] -

9956:34

credentials [19] -

9853:11, 9853:13,

9868:20, 9887:28,

9902:27, 9906:8,

9906:21, 9906:41,

9907:1, 9914:15,

9914:16, 9915:7,

9915:14, 9915:27,

9916:2, 9917:26,

9926:41, 9950:13,

9956:37

crime [3] - 9884:43,

9913:40, 9926:38

criminal [18] -

9866:13, 9868:5,

9868:23, 9870:7,

9904:23, 9910:23,

9910:29, 9910:44,

9911:19, 9911:30,

9911:36, 9919:26,

9919:31, 9923:17,

9940:36, 9954:47,

9955:1, 9959:21

Criminal [1] - 9910:25

critical [9] - 9859:18,

9860:20, 9864:8,

9869:4, 9869:6,

9874:25, 9874:28,

9931:32, 9938:18

critically [1] - 9906:29

criticism [3] - 9871:4,

9908:44, 9924:40

cross [1] - 9947:19

cross-examining [1] -

9947:19

crossover [1] -

9854:40

cruel [1] - 9923:37

cry [4] - 9874:12,

9874:13, 9920:47,

9929:1

cumbersome [2] -

9882:15, 9893:29

current [6] - 9902:3,

9902:23, 9925:31,

9926:2, 9939:34,

9960:45

cut [2] - 9856:25,

9856:38

Ddad [1] - 9942:47

daily [1] - 9856:1

damage [4] - 9889:3,

9889:12, 9890:7,

9922:2

damaged [1] - 9864:4

date [29] - 9853:33,

9864:31, 9864:32,

9865:12, 9870:28,

9877:10, 9877:12,

9877:32, 9877:43,

9878:27, 9880:28,

9904:44, 9905:18,

9910:16, 9912:45,

9919:31, 9922:35,

9951:15, 9951:20,

9952:31, 9953:19,

9953:23, 9953:31,

9953:36, 9954:1,

9954:7, 9954:16,

9961:14

DATED [3] - 9854:32,

9902:17, 9908:30

dated [13] - 9853:22,

9858:47, 9887:47,

9895:24, 9897:42,

9898:23, 9902:6,

9908:3, 9908:18,

9920:33, 9952:7,

9952:35, 9953:9

David [3] - 9896:11,

9896:13, 9901:45

Dawkins [2] -

9896:11, 9896:13

dawn [1] - 9886:35

day-to-day [1] -

9864:7

days [8] - 9873:14,

9880:27, 9888:3,

9888:7, 9890:12,

9907:3, 9951:32,

9955:23

deafening [1] -

9871:12

deal [13] - 9889:6,

9890:46, 9890:47,

9900:6, 9900:12,

.16/10/2014 (93)


8

9900:15, 9900:18,

9915:11, 9926:40,

9942:34, 9942:35,

9943:11, 9946:9

dealing [4] - 9882:22,

9898:18, 9937:26,

9945:6

dealt [4] - 9861:1,

9868:8, 9913:35,

9948:26

debt [1] - 9889:34

December [18] -

9854:37, 9855:16,

9866:31, 9877:31,

9878:15, 9897:2,

9897:22, 9903:31,

9904:24, 9907:10,

9907:25, 9910:17,

9912:45, 9913:8,

9915:13, 9951:20,

9952:1

decision [2] -

9912:37, 9919:25

decisions [1] -

9930:35

deed [1] - 9948:28

define [3] - 9947:30,

9947:34, 9947:40

defined [1] - 9900:35

definitely [5] -

9904:34, 9920:17,

9920:23, 9937:40,

9941:17

definition [1] -

9899:10

degree [6] - 9888:22,

9896:37, 9933:29,

9933:35, 9933:45,

9937:34

delay [7] - 9866:39,

9904:23, 9919:27,

9928:24, 9941:46,

9943:12, 9943:16

delicately [1] -

9942:35

delighted [2] -

9943:31, 9943:32

demands [2] -

9865:42, 9889:15

denials [1] - 9909:13

denominational [1] -

9872:38

Department [1] -

9932:46

department [1] -

9858:18

departmental [1] -

9858:35

departments [1] -

9876:28

depth [1] - 9955:18

describe [2] -

9859:40, 9899:37

described [2] -

9855:4, 9942:30

describes [1] -

9859:45

describing [1] -

9948:12

description [1] -

9856:1

deserved [2] -

9927:35, 9927:37

desirable [1] -

9916:17

desk [3] - 9863:11,

9863:16, 9942:25

desperately [1] -

9942:19

despite [1] - 9884:45

destroy [1] - 9860:5

detail [6] - 9869:12,

9898:1, 9905:5,

9921:4, 9926:39,

9947:15

detailed [6] - 9878:29,

9880:10, 9909:34,

9937:2, 9937:9,

9937:14

details [9] - 9854:10,

9854:13, 9878:20,

9879:42, 9927:45,

9928:2, 9928:8,

9928:12, 9955:27

determination [1] -

9910:12

determine [1] -

9913:12

determined [1] -

9914:29

developed [1] -

9878:39

development [3] -

9949:35, 9949:37,

9949:41

developments [1] -

9910:43

different [8] - 9909:35,

9932:42, 9934:34,

9940:4, 9945:40,

9946:43, 9954:16,

9957:43

differently [1] -

9946:24

difficult [9] - 9882:7,

9882:18, 9889:28,

9889:29, 9893:32,

9899:4, 9899:12,

9923:26, 9949:23

difficulties [1] -

9901:4

difficulty [1] - 9899:45

direct [7] - 9865:2,

9866:9, 9869:37,

9876:27, 9899:13,

9934:35, 9952:27

directed [3] - 9871:4,

9871:5, 9908:32

direction [1] - 9888:21

directly [9] - 9864:5,

9881:19, 9892:37,

9899:6, 9903:12,

9903:47, 9923:10,

9927:43

director [7] - 9861:16,

9861:19, 9861:36,

9862:47, 9902:24,

9902:44, 9903:9

directors [1] - 9920:6

disaffected [1] -

9865:44

disaffiliate [1] -

9950:18

disaffiliation [1] -

9954:28

discharged [1] -

9916:39

disciplinary [2] -

9911:34, 9918:41

discipline [2] -

9856:2, 9915:42

disclose [1] - 9952:20

discover [1] - 9913:5

discovered [2] -

9854:14, 9903:43

discussed [4] -

9896:36, 9904:41,

9905:15, 9927:36

discussion [5] -

9892:34, 9892:44,

9905:3, 9905:4,

9905:6

dismissed [1] -

9915:33

disputes [1] - 9909:13

distance [2] - 9909:3,

9909:4

distinct [1] - 9872:37

distinction [1] -

9939:30

distress [1] - 9900:12

distributed [2] -

9958:29, 9958:39

district [19] - 9853:38,

9853:40, 9853:44,

9854:1, 9864:36,

9865:5, 9865:27,

9866:8, 9882:3,

9882:5, 9882:9,

9882:10, 9891:35,

9892:39, 9894:23,

9904:11, 9904:15,

9904:17, 9951:11

districts [1] - 9882:2

document [71] -

9855:21, 9855:25,

9855:37, 9856:8,

9856:13, 9856:27,

9856:36, 9856:40,

9856:43, 9856:45,

9856:47, 9857:4,

9857:13, 9857:15,

9857:29, 9857:33,

9857:40, 9858:46,

9859:1, 9859:30,

9859:31, 9860:19,

9875:8, 9875:16,

9875:18, 9875:26,

9875:27, 9875:37,

9875:41, 9875:43,

9875:45, 9875:47,

9876:4, 9876:30,

9876:41, 9876:42,

9877:5, 9877:28,

9877:33, 9877:35,

9877:38, 9878:44,

9878:47, 9879:6,

9879:15, 9879:24,

9879:26, 9880:9,

9880:10, 9880:23,

9895:26, 9898:30,

9908:17, 9908:25,

9908:27, 9908:32,

9908:36, 9909:11,

9919:41, 9931:16,

9957:7, 9957:12,

9957:23, 9958:1,

9958:6, 9958:14,

9959:11, 9959:40,

9960:16

DOCUMENT [2] -

9958:11, 9958:21

documentation [3] -

9856:15, 9859:2,

9911:23

documents [6] -

9856:24, 9876:16,

9897:30, 9897:36,

9930:42, 9959:37

dollar [1] - 9889:5

done [15] - 9869:13,

9877:25, 9879:10,

9881:43, 9883:8,

9883:9, 9906:12,

9935:44, 9942:43,

9944:16, 9945:30,

9946:34, 9946:35,

9947:14, 9961:4

door [3] - 9860:12,

9860:27, 9882:27

doors [1] - 9935:8

dot [1] - 9859:40

doubt [8] - 9860:40,

9882:45, 9891:36,

9900:38, 9909:43,

9912:38, 9942:10,

9953:35

doubts [3] - 9953:44,

9953:47, 9954:1

down [25] - 9859:32,

9860:8, 9862:33,

9870:42, 9871:24,

9871:34, 9873:40,

9877:11, 9877:41,

9880:28, 9885:5,

9885:25, 9886:39,

9893:8, 9895:28,

9896:17, 9900:21,

9920:6, 9920:44,

9921:23, 9921:44,

9922:7, 9925:35,

9937:23, 9957:26

DPP [4] - 9911:14,

9911:33, 9911:46,

9932:10

draft [2] - 9857:20,

9875:35

drag [1] - 9922:11

draw [1] - 9939:30

drawn [3] - 9900:45,

9935:18, 9935:26

dream [1] - 9900:8

drew [1] - 9925:10

drilled [2] - 9886:38,

9900:21

drumsticks [2] -

9934:4, 9935:2

duck [2] - 9871:28,

9885:29

ducked [1] - 9885:17

during [21] - 9855:18,

9858:21, 9858:22,

9858:43, 9864:14,

9867:4, 9867:26,

9876:8, 9878:39,

9879:7, 9906:19,

9908:10, 9914:3,

9914:33, 9914:41,

9914:46, 9916:29,

9916:39, 9920:28,

9934:14, 9961:30

During [1] - 9858:1

duties [2] - 9863:12,

9903:9

duty [4] - 9871:20,

9883:15, 9883:21,

9936:2

dynamics [1] -

9867:27

.16/10/2014 (93)


9

Ee-mail [4] - 9873:43,

9874:36, 9880:17,

9922:36

early [5] - 9879:21,

9897:22, 9932:19,

9951:44, 9962:14

easily [1] - 9894:34

easy [1] - 9893:23

educate [1] - 9936:34

educational [1] -

9956:17

effect [5] - 9877:23,

9889:47, 9914:14,

9940:38, 9942:39

effective [2] - 9899:21,

9899:24

effectively [7] -

9869:42, 9904:19,

9924:32, 9926:11,

9929:1, 9940:40,

9960:41

effort [2] - 9890:25,

9894:39

either [7] - 9862:12,

9916:23, 9931:24,

9932:46, 9933:27,

9949:35, 9956:23

electronic [2] -

9891:44, 9891:47

Elmo [2] - 9957:12,

9958:16

elsewhere [1] -

9862:37

email [112] - 9870:24,

9870:25, 9870:26,

9870:32, 9872:1,

9872:13, 9872:26,

9873:4, 9873:13,

9873:38, 9873:40,

9873:41, 9873:44,

9874:12, 9874:28,

9874:33, 9880:6,

9880:8, 9880:25,

9880:36, 9881:1,

9881:7, 9881:26,

9883:14, 9884:31,

9884:41, 9886:41,

9886:42, 9887:12,

9887:33, 9888:7,

9888:20, 9888:37,

9888:45, 9889:4,

9889:37, 9889:47,

9893:2, 9893:24,

9897:42, 9897:44,

9898:7, 9898:10,

9898:13, 9898:14,

9904:47, 9905:30,

9905:32, 9908:34,

9909:35, 9919:43,

9919:45, 9920:1,

9920:4, 9920:13,

9920:31, 9920:33,

9920:34, 9920:39,

9920:43, 9920:47,

9921:5, 9921:20,

9921:21, 9921:35,

9921:39, 9922:34,

9922:37, 9922:42,

9922:43, 9923:9,

9923:15, 9923:30,

9923:36, 9923:39,

9923:40, 9923:43,

9923:46, 9923:47,

9924:11, 9924:12,

9924:14, 9924:20,

9924:33, 9924:42,

9924:44, 9925:12,

9925:29, 9926:14,

9926:28, 9926:35,

9927:27, 9927:33,

9927:35, 9927:47,

9928:1, 9928:4,

9928:7, 9928:10,

9928:14, 9928:35,

9929:3, 9942:20,

9942:30, 9943:23,

9946:14, 9946:17,

9952:15, 9953:25,

9953:39, 9954:8,

9958:40

email's [1] - 9870:27

emails [4] - 9854:21,

9873:43, 9903:7,

9942:21

emerging [1] -

9900:44

emotional [1] -

9924:33

emphasis [1] -

9860:17

employ [1] - 9956:44

employee [1] -

9937:37

encourage [3] -

9936:34, 9937:47,

9949:42

encouraged [2] -

9868:2, 9936:38

encumber [1] -

9899:20

end [9] - 9861:35,

9879:14, 9887:21,

9897:22, 9917:38,

9917:40, 9917:42,

9951:44, 9957:27

endeavoured [2] -

9940:47, 9942:11

ends [1] - 9928:44

enemy [1] - 9860:5

enforce [2] - 9937:45,

9949:40

enforcement [1] -

9950:3

engage [4] - 9859:20,

9859:21, 9859:46,

9941:21

engaged [4] -

9911:34, 9946:30,

9956:46, 9961:15

English [1] - 9949:46

enlarge [1] - 9936:36

enormity [1] - 9892:22

ensure [6] - 9917:1,

9919:36, 9936:10,

9960:11, 9961:9,

9961:20

ensuring [1] - 9955:37

enter [1] - 9959:11

entire [2] - 9855:47,

9914:46

entirely [2] - 9909:20,

9927:13

entities [1] - 9889:44

ENTITLED [2] -

9958:11, 9958:21

entitled [5] - 9855:37,

9874:12, 9920:47,

9958:6, 9958:15

entity [5] - 9889:18,

9889:19, 9889:41,

9889:42

entry [2] - 9877:4,

9877:42

environment [1] -

9960:11

equivalent [1] -

9960:25

error [1] - 9899:2

essence [1] - 9888:10

essentially [2] -

9934:38, 9935:33

establish [4] -

9903:20, 9906:1,

9907:21, 9934:44

established [7] -

9883:32, 9889:19,

9916:27, 9916:28,

9926:44, 9945:27

establishes [1] -

9957:45

establishment [1] -

9897:3

estimate [1] - 9907:8

et [4] - 9858:37,

9874:40, 9887:28

event [6] - 9862:28,

9880:36, 9907:5,

9910:21, 9953:44,

9954:15

events [1] - 9941:11

eventually [2] -

9942:25, 9943:25

evidence [34] -

9858:7, 9858:11,

9864:43, 9867:8,

9879:21, 9880:25,

9881:16, 9903:16,

9903:22, 9904:9,

9906:18, 9908:1,

9908:43, 9909:1,

9909:45, 9919:44,

9920:7, 9933:15,

9933:21, 9933:27,

9935:12, 9935:17,

9935:18, 9935:26,

9936:41, 9936:45,

9937:4, 9938:14,

9940:10, 9942:5,

9954:3, 9955:5,

9957:14

evidenced [1] -

9946:30

evil [10] - 9860:5,

9860:18, 9860:21,

9860:22, 9860:25,

9860:26, 9860:31,

9860:32, 9860:42

evolving [1] - 9856:45

exacerbated [1] -

9925:42

exact [1] - 9952:31

exactly [1] - 9859:9

EXAMINATION [11] -

9853:9, 9880:2,

9891:14, 9897:18,

9901:21, 9901:41,

9938:11, 9941:38,

9950:46, 9952:47,

9956:31

examination [4] -

9908:10, 9935:20,

9954:23, 9956:17

examine [1] - 9955:44

examining [1] -

9947:19

example [11] -

9862:47, 9866:13,

9876:32, 9907:22,

9918:9, 9918:26,

9923:16, 9930:38,

9932:44, 9948:37,

9949:37

except [2] - 9926:2,

9947:20

exception [1] - 9872:9

excerpted [1] - 9930:8

exchanges [1] -

9890:17

excused [2] - 9901:32,

9961:37

excuses [2] - 9882:24,

9883:9

execute [1] - 9887:30

executing [1] -

9900:27

executive [75] -

9856:31, 9857:16,

9857:23, 9864:45,

9864:46, 9865:6,

9865:7, 9865:9,

9865:33, 9866:14,

9869:29, 9869:34,

9869:39, 9869:42,

9882:5, 9882:12,

9883:30, 9892:36,

9893:24, 9893:45,

9894:7, 9894:11,

9896:24, 9898:29,

9899:22, 9903:31,

9904:4, 9904:7,

9906:1, 9906:13,

9906:14, 9906:16,

9906:27, 9907:30,

9910:6, 9911:42,

9912:17, 9912:37,

9912:45, 9913:11,

9913:41, 9917:11,

9917:22, 9917:25,

9918:40, 9923:41,

9924:45, 9925:16,

9926:8, 9930:7,

9931:33, 9932:4,

9932:36, 9936:24,

9937:3, 9937:37,

9937:43, 9942:7,

9947:13, 9948:44,

9948:45, 9951:12,

9951:17, 9951:19,

9951:25, 9951:33,

9951:35, 9952:2,

9952:6, 9954:40,

9955:13, 9955:23,

9955:24, 9955:36

Executive [4] -

9903:37, 9924:12,

9924:14, 9931:24

executive's [1] -

9945:13

executives [4] -

9882:4, 9895:12,

9895:16, 9914:10

exercise [1] - 9914:25

exhibit [14] - 9855:25,

9855:31, 9856:8,

9859:30, 9875:7,

9878:37, 9878:43,

9908:34, 9908:43,

9909:4, 9909:34,

9909:36, 9958:9,

.16/10/2014 (93)


10

9959:36

EXHIBIT [5] - 9854:32,

9902:17, 9908:29,

9958:11, 9958:21

existed [3] - 9879:15,

9879:40, 9899:38

existing [1] - 9946:11

expect [5] - 9873:9,

9906:30, 9917:2,

9939:12, 9939:20

expectation [1] -

9936:36

expected [2] -

9908:44, 9945:32

expecting [1] -

9870:44

experience [2] -

9898:45, 9900:22

experienced [1] -

9923:23

expert [1] - 9949:44

explain [5] - 9868:5,

9868:41, 9868:45,

9918:30, 9957:41

explained [6] -

9869:12, 9905:17,

9918:31, 9918:40,

9932:41, 9939:42

explanation [2] -

9893:36, 9926:38

explore [1] - 9932:16

exposed [1] - 9875:15

exposure [1] - 9922:1

express [1] - 9860:42

expressed [4] -

9900:35, 9929:33,

9935:40, 9940:3

expressing [1] -

9920:21

expression [1] -

9900:26

expressions [1] -

9900:20

extend [1] - 9913:39

extended [1] -

9914:21

extent [1] - 9932:24

external [1] - 9859:4

extremely [2] -

9944:26, 9944:34

eye [2] - 9860:30,

9951:23

Fface [12] - 9943:26,

9943:28, 9943:47,

9944:3, 9944:4,

9944:5

face-to-face [6] -

9943:26, 9943:28,

9943:47, 9944:3,

9944:4, 9944:5

facets [1] - 9888:30

facilitate [2] -

9899:20, 9906:47

facility [1] - 9899:18

fact [41] - 9855:30,

9865:38, 9866:14,

9869:29, 9879:39,

9895:36, 9907:2,

9915:15, 9915:27,

9915:32, 9916:17,

9917:8, 9917:20,

9917:34, 9917:36,

9920:38, 9921:9,

9921:13, 9923:33,

9924:2, 9924:38,

9927:24, 9931:37,

9936:4, 9936:5,

9936:38, 9938:27,

9939:42, 9943:42,

9945:43, 9946:30,

9947:11, 9948:46,

9950:3, 9951:32,

9953:19, 9954:2,

9957:26, 9961:11,

9961:15

facts [1] - 9926:36

failed [3] - 9898:28,

9936:2, 9942:3

failing [9] - 9862:15,

9862:17, 9863:9,

9881:38, 9884:33,

9884:34, 9912:7,

9912:10, 9946:45

failings [7] - 9887:9,

9936:29, 9939:39,

9940:4, 9942:10,

9946:32, 9947:13

failure [5] - 9917:16,

9930:17, 9932:23,

9938:21, 9942:6

failures [2] - 9930:11,

9936:11

fair [6] - 9872:36,

9877:41, 9888:24,

9906:43, 9945:47,

9952:35

fairly [6] - 9856:26,

9866:27, 9881:30,

9891:47, 9942:30,

9951:43

fairness [3] - 9888:16,

9909:16, 9909:41

faith [1] - 9949:35

faith-based [1] -

9949:35

falls [1] - 9909:12

falsely [1] - 9860:9

familiar [6] - 9892:16,

9892:20, 9922:37,

9948:18, 9957:23,

9957:24

family [55] - 9864:1,

9865:43, 9868:3,

9870:11, 9870:16,

9870:21, 9871:1,

9874:37, 9880:30,

9880:47, 9881:12,

9881:23, 9881:41,

9882:41, 9882:45,

9883:6, 9883:14,

9886:4, 9887:5,

9887:40, 9890:17,

9890:25, 9891:4,

9895:30, 9901:4,

9914:41, 9915:6,

9915:27, 9915:41,

9916:37, 9921:15,

9923:23, 9923:32,

9924:6, 9927:4,

9927:35, 9928:12,

9929:3, 9929:11,

9933:32, 9934:9,

9934:21, 9934:45,

9936:16, 9939:43,

9940:31, 9942:14,

9943:21, 9944:47,

9946:31, 9946:39,

9948:6, 9950:27,

9952:33

far [6] - 9862:35,

9863:10, 9875:32,

9913:6, 9923:27,

9938:40

Farrer [1] - 9852:22

father [21] - 9870:25,

9872:27, 9873:4,

9873:14, 9873:31,

9873:41, 9874:7,

9874:24, 9880:5,

9880:26, 9920:39,

9922:36, 9924:32,

9924:40, 9925:30,

9925:40, 9926:4,

9926:8, 9929:2,

9941:41, 9942:19

father's [5] - 9873:25,

9874:12, 9920:47,

9946:14, 9946:17

father-in-law [1] -

9925:40

favouritism [4] -

9933:29, 9933:35,

9933:46, 9934:2

February [1] - 9854:9

feedback [2] -

9960:34, 9960:43

fellow [1] - 9946:38

fellowship [2] -

9882:34, 9900:30

felt [9] - 9869:34,

9883:10, 9927:33,

9927:34, 9927:35,

9927:37, 9943:40,

9945:26, 9949:17

female [2] - 9953:21,

9954:5

field [3] - 9904:6,

9905:4, 9905:7

file [3] - 9879:5,

9882:8, 9954:3

fills [1] - 9918:11

final [2] - 9877:38,

9882:12

financial [6] - 9889:3,

9889:11, 9889:26,

9890:4, 9890:7,

9961:30

financially [1] -

9864:17

findings [1] - 9940:3

fine [2] - 9894:37,

9956:43

finish [3] - 9888:39,

9945:20, 9962:7

finished [1] - 9857:8

finishes [1] - 9887:22

first [61] - 9858:47,

9860:2, 9861:46,

9861:47, 9864:14,

9864:29, 9865:20,

9865:26, 9866:25,

9866:42, 9873:39,

9875:15, 9875:19,

9877:1, 9877:5,

9877:10, 9877:17,

9883:40, 9899:9,

9900:45, 9903:27,

9903:30, 9903:36,

9904:26, 9904:33,

9904:41, 9905:14,

9905:30, 9912:41,

9913:19, 9914:4,

9914:31, 9918:14,

9919:17, 9920:25,

9920:32, 9920:33,

9923:36, 9924:2,

9924:5, 9930:2,

9930:9, 9930:10,

9933:30, 9933:34,

9933:45, 9940:14,

9943:18, 9943:25,

9945:38, 9946:28,

9948:39, 9951:16,

9951:17, 9951:18,

9953:12, 9958:6,

9959:38, 9961:45

firstly [2] - 9951:7,

9956:38

five [2] - 9857:10,

9943:42

flag [1] - 9924:46

floor [1] - 9882:19

fluid [1] - 9951:42

focus [2] - 9857:38,

9865:11

follow [6] - 9865:30,

9924:33, 9924:36,

9924:41, 9929:35,

9949:6

follow-up [5] -

9865:30, 9924:33,

9924:36, 9924:41,

9929:35

followed [6] -

9872:46, 9912:11,

9912:26, 9928:35,

9929:31, 9955:38

following [5] -

9872:26, 9907:34,

9912:23, 9926:43,

9932:29

follows [1] - 9899:37

Foote [8] - 9922:37,

9923:9, 9925:13,

9928:10, 9928:14,

9928:18, 9928:20,

9953:39

Foote's [3] - 9923:35,

9924:19, 9929:3

forbid [1] - 9946:37

foremost [1] - 9948:39

Form [1] - 9861:15

form [15] - 9858:21,

9865:39, 9870:44,

9875:34, 9909:1,

9918:11, 9921:36,

9929:24, 9936:1,

9936:5, 9948:11,

9948:30, 9949:41,

9958:42, 9960:21

formal [4] - 9872:32,

9901:11, 9929:27,

9929:34

formally [2] - 9857:22,

9929:24

formats [1] - 9856:2

formed [5] - 9860:7,

9878:17, 9878:24,

9939:46, 9940:32

former [5] - 9904:6,

9911:4, 9939:19,

9939:28, 9939:29

forms [2] - 9856:2,

9948:28

forth [2] - 9860:47,

9899:10

forthcoming [2] -

.16/10/2014 (93)


11

9928:2, 9936:17

forward [4] - 9883:36,

9893:23, 9930:27,

9939:13

forwarded [3] -

9920:40, 9920:44,

9924:11

four [7] - 9854:16,

9857:10, 9873:13,

9874:21, 9897:10,

9921:14, 9951:37

framed [1] - 9950:8

FRIDAY [1] - 9962:39

friend [6] - 9908:41,

9933:3, 9933:5,

9933:19, 9934:24,

9934:36

fringe [1] - 9960:11

front [1] - 9855:8

frontline [1] - 9937:25

fruition [1] - 9856:6

full [4] - 9853:15,

9901:44, 9902:45,

9921:19

full-time [1] - 9902:45

fully [1] - 9955:13

function [2] - 9876:19,

9882:33

functionally [1] -

9890:36

future [3] - 9868:32,

9936:10, 9956:14

GG-O-O-D-E [1] -

9854:4

gap [1] - 9937:7

GARY [2] - 9901:39,

9902:17

Gary [5] - 9873:40,

9895:24, 9895:38,

9901:37, 9901:45

Gee [1] - 9928:19

general [13] - 9853:39,

9858:21, 9859:15,

9859:37, 9864:25,

9887:15, 9887:27,

9891:27, 9931:10,

9934:8, 9935:1,

9949:36, 9955:5

generally [5] -

9853:37, 9929:44,

9930:40, 9935:45,

9951:43

generated [1] -

9900:14

gentleman [1] -

9896:6

genuine [1] - 9860:37

genuinely [1] -

9923:43

gift [1] - 9934:4

given [23] - 9857:21,

9867:38, 9873:12,

9876:27, 9877:26,

9877:38, 9883:37,

9896:41, 9904:26,

9904:29, 9912:35,

9913:34, 9928:11,

9928:36, 9930:7,

9934:25, 9935:12,

9936:29, 9937:31,

9947:14, 9953:31,

9955:5, 9957:14

gleaned [1] - 9940:32

God [45] - 9853:12,

9853:13, 9856:31,

9856:33, 9857:16,

9858:3, 9859:6,

9861:41, 9865:47,

9868:16, 9868:44,

9869:1, 9869:11,

9869:21, 9870:45,

9871:5, 9871:13,

9872:34, 9873:26,

9873:32, 9874:9,

9874:29, 9874:30,

9874:37, 9876:2,

9883:11, 9887:17,

9890:41, 9893:28,

9897:6, 9900:31,

9913:21, 9913:31,

9914:6, 9914:21,

9914:41, 9918:46,

9919:12, 9921:10,

9923:31, 9929:15,

9929:46, 9930:32,

9946:37, 9949:18

GOD [1] - 9958:22

God" [1] - 9958:15

Gold [3] - 9917:40,

9934:1, 9935:3

Goode [16] - 9853:39,

9853:47, 9854:1,

9864:40, 9864:41,

9865:16, 9869:40,

9891:35, 9893:24,

9903:39, 9903:47,

9904:6, 9904:9,

9951:11, 9951:23,

9951:27

GOODE [1] - 9854:3

Goode's [1] - 9904:11

governance [7] -

9865:4, 9930:42,

9949:25, 9949:27,

9949:30, 9956:45,

9960:39

government [3] -

9882:15, 9882:21,

9960:45

Government [1] -

9959:7

Governor [1] -

9852:21

gracious [1] - 9943:33

granted [2] - 9918:13,

9918:22

grassroots [1] -

9900:3

grateful [1] - 9952:33

great [2] - 9901:8,

9947:15

ground [1] - 9872:31

grow [1] - 9899:42

guard [1] - 9936:32

guess [5] - 9887:2,

9924:46, 9926:14,

9929:30, 9949:44

guidance [1] -

9900:17

guidelines [1] -

9931:14

guilt [1] - 9900:47

guilty [1] - 9915:44

Hhalf [1] - 9873:39

hand [3] - 9952:4,

9957:13, 9958:14

handed [1] - 9908:4

handled [10] -

9858:17, 9869:16,

9869:41, 9876:37,

9886:22, 9891:5,

9900:9, 9912:30,

9928:19, 9929:16

handling [4] -

9870:12, 9890:34,

9893:15, 9955:34

hands [5] - 9887:39,

9913:16, 9914:28,

9921:10, 9962:3

hands-on [1] -

9887:39

happy [5] - 9918:42,

9929:19, 9952:3,

9962:10, 9962:14

hard [5] - 9855:26,

9880:31, 9899:5,

9899:46, 9958:34

Hatten [1] - 9856:14

head [3] - 9863:7,

9869:1, 9940:14

heading [2] - 9953:20,

9954:8

hear [4] - 9860:36,

9867:8, 9874:34,

9893:47

heard [13] - 9858:7,

9864:29, 9867:24,

9871:37, 9884:33,

9890:29, 9903:16,

9903:23, 9904:9,

9909:13, 9914:2,

9920:7, 9936:41

hearing [3] - 9883:33,

9898:47, 9928:36

Hearing [1] - 9852:17

heart [6] - 9854:8,

9854:15, 9874:12,

9916:47, 9921:1,

9929:1

heartbreaking [1] -

9921:5

held [3] - 9917:35,

9939:33, 9954:29

helm [1] - 9858:22

help [11] - 9866:40,

9867:44, 9900:38,

9900:40, 9912:10,

9921:1, 9942:21,

9944:17, 9944:21,

9945:31, 9956:44

helpful [4] - 9907:2,

9907:4, 9907:6,

9916:22

helping [1] - 9926:13

hence [1] - 9925:10

herself [1] - 9909:21

hesitate [1] - 9869:6

hiding [1] - 9921:29

high [3] - 9933:29,

9933:35, 9933:45

higher [1] - 9881:39

highlighted [1] -

9899:5

Hillsong [2] - 9906:19,

9906:23

himself [4] - 9891:4,

9927:21, 9933:27,

9945:47

hindsight [2] -

9869:13, 9873:29

historical [1] -

9952:29

historically [1] -

9909:9

history [2] - 9854:21,

9918:17

hit [1] - 9955:17

hmm [4] - 9877:15,

9878:18, 9878:31,

9898:8

hold [5] - 9939:4,

9940:8, 9940:42,

9946:43, 9957:37

holder [2] - 9939:16,

9939:34

holders [4] - 9870:17,

9893:33, 9958:44,

9960:19

holding [2] - 9889:19,

9889:44

holds [1] - 9955:46

honest [4] - 9947:1,

9950:35, 9953:19,

9953:22

Honour [36] - 9853:4,

9855:32, 9855:33,

9879:44, 9883:41,

9884:12, 9884:28,

9897:16, 9898:3,

9899:30, 9899:34,

9900:1, 9900:35,

9907:38, 9907:47,

9908:4, 9909:47,

9934:23, 9935:14,

9935:23, 9935:29,

9938:9, 9941:31,

9941:36, 9949:10,

9949:16, 9949:38,

9950:24, 9950:42,

9955:22, 9956:1,

9957:7, 9959:21,

9959:32, 9961:41,

9961:44

Honour's [1] - 9962:3

hoops [1] - 9899:8

hope [2] - 9871:29,

9885:30

hoping [1] - 9885:18

horrendous [3] -

9942:15, 9945:11,

9954:41

hotline [1] - 9899:18

huge [1] - 9880:42

human [1] - 9899:2

Hunt [3] - 9912:40,

9920:35, 9961:42

hunt [1] - 9922:31

hurdles [1] - 9899:8

II'm.. [1] - 9877:2

Ian [4] - 9930:17,

9931:25, 9932:44,

9939:39

ideally [1] - 9926:35

identified [2] - 9909:2,

9930:11

identify [1] - 9855:2

identity [2] - 9892:8,

9892:10

ignore [2] - 9873:39,

9898:4

imagine [1] - 9880:37

.16/10/2014 (93)


12

immediate [5] -

9881:34, 9883:16,

9890:35, 9899:19,

9906:31

immediately [7] -

9862:33, 9904:47,

9906:22, 9907:6,

9924:15, 9926:41,

9952:13

impacting [1] - 9890:2

impassioned [1] -

9874:13

impediment [1] -

9882:22

imperative [1] -

9859:22

Implementation [1] -

9877:7

implementation [3] -

9858:23, 9896:19,

9937:8

implemented [1] -

9937:35

implications [1] -

9888:30

implied [1] - 9924:39

importance [3] -

9899:19, 9914:11,

9933:8

important [5] -

9865:46, 9892:46,

9909:4, 9909:16,

9941:17

impression [1] -

9887:13

imprisonment [1] -

9880:39

improve [1] - 9869:7

improved [2] -

9858:39, 9945:5

improving [2] -

9876:12, 9879:18

in-depth [1] - 9955:18

inaccuracy [1] -

9884:3

inaccurate [2] -

9854:23, 9875:25

inactive [1] - 9917:37

inappropriate [2] -

9860:42, 9950:37

incident [1] - 9909:28

incidental [1] -

9890:13

incidents [1] - 9935:7

include [4] - 9854:10,

9861:13, 9862:11,

9926:36

included [5] - 9871:6,

9876:30, 9921:18,

9921:20, 9923:42

includes [6] -

9855:47, 9856:41,

9861:11, 9911:14,

9931:16, 9960:10

including [7] -

9870:16, 9872:1,

9888:28, 9920:5,

9930:43, 9934:3,

9961:20

indeed [5] - 9859:6,

9865:11, 9865:37,

9893:45, 9908:43

indemnity [1] -

9886:14

indicate [6] - 9861:6,

9877:18, 9930:10,

9940:38, 9961:8,

9962:22

indicated [6] -

9904:30, 9906:19,

9935:39, 9954:9,

9954:10, 9960:44

indicates [2] -

9888:45, 9925:29

indication [4] -

9860:41, 9878:15,

9931:31, 9960:21

indistinct) [1] -

9889:39

individual [4] -

9912:38, 9946:10,

9950:13, 9950:18

individually [1] -

9869:17

induction [4] -

9858:14, 9858:25,

9858:27, 9858:29

influence [1] - 9864:4

influences [1] -

9899:47

influencing [1] -

9867:31

inform [7] - 9870:2,

9870:15, 9892:36,

9892:39, 9930:18,

9938:42, 9939:1

information [43] -

9854:20, 9854:22,

9854:24, 9856:3,

9856:40, 9859:12,

9862:23, 9863:31,

9864:44, 9865:18,

9866:18, 9866:34,

9866:38, 9876:43,

9887:29, 9890:30,

9904:29, 9905:17,

9905:29, 9906:2,

9909:9, 9909:33,

9912:1, 9912:5,

9916:11, 9917:17,

9928:15, 9932:11,

9932:25, 9934:26,

9934:35, 9934:36,

9940:32, 9942:3,

9951:27, 9952:4,

9952:27, 9954:30,

9959:42, 9960:4,

9960:22, 9960:26,

9961:24

informed [11] -

9861:36, 9865:16,

9866:16, 9866:17,

9869:39, 9870:11,

9887:26, 9907:6,

9907:8, 9909:28,

9909:30

informed" [1] -

9853:40

initial [4] - 9889:41,

9913:2, 9928:10,

9953:20

Initiative [1] - 9958:6

initiative [2] -

9901:24, 9959:38

INITIATIVE [1] -

9958:11

innocent [1] - 9867:33

input [2] - 9857:16,

9952:21

insensitive [1] -

9923:37

inside [5] - 9899:38,

9900:19, 9900:30,

9954:43, 9955:45

insightful [1] -

9860:38

instance [1] - 9893:34

instances [2] -

9934:8, 9934:37

instead [1] - 9873:7

institution [1] -

9955:45

INSTITUTIONAL [1] -

9852:12

instructing [1] -

9863:7

instruction [2] -

9876:27, 9877:37

Insurance [1] -

9953:46

insurance [21] -

9886:10, 9886:12,

9886:14, 9886:15,

9886:21, 9890:27,

9890:38, 9890:44,

9891:6, 9898:17,

9921:30, 9921:41,

9922:9, 9922:26,

9923:26, 9925:25,

9926:15, 9942:34,

9942:37, 9943:11

insurer [4] - 9854:19,

9872:21, 9873:18,

9926:11

insurers [2] - 9922:1,

9954:11

intelligent [2] -

9883:47, 9947:22

intense [2] - 9859:27,

9933:17

intensity [1] - 9874:28

intent [2] - 9860:37,

9916:47

intention [1] - 9887:24

intentional [2] -

9854:7, 9854:24

interaction [1] -

9933:44

interest [7] - 9889:26,

9930:20, 9930:31,

9930:39, 9930:43,

9930:46, 9931:10

intermittent [1] -

9859:13

intermittently [1] -

9858:35

internal [1] - 9941:29

internet [1] - 9894:43

interpretation [1] -

9924:39

interrupt [1] - 9950:22

interstate [1] - 9944:5

interview [3] -

9897:32, 9952:11,

9952:13

interviewed [1] -

9941:8

INTO [1] - 9852:12

invitation [1] - 9949:1

invite [1] - 9944:20

invited [4] - 9913:47,

9918:15, 9934:39,

9960:36

invites [1] - 9934:29

invoice [1] - 9905:3

involved [12] -

9854:11, 9854:12,

9885:19, 9898:37,

9898:39, 9898:42,

9900:5, 9910:36,

9913:27, 9916:46,

9920:11, 9936:12

involvement [3] -

9883:12, 9920:22,

9934:46

involving [1] -

9960:34

irrespective [1] -

9922:25

issue [12] - 9862:21,

9865:31, 9865:32,

9865:46, 9872:29,

9874:1, 9903:17,

9906:30, 9908:9,

9909:5, 9954:27,

9954:33

issued [1] - 9957:31

issues [10] - 9858:33,

9859:7, 9863:21,

9930:11, 9930:15,

9930:43, 9934:9,

9937:27, 9952:12,

9956:45

item [9] - 9853:33,

9853:37, 9854:7,

9854:11, 9854:15,

9854:18, 9876:44,

9877:11, 9877:12

items [1] - 9897:33

itself [9] - 9860:18,

9860:22, 9890:6,

9913:15, 9924:2,

9943:16, 9955:9,

9955:20, 9956:18

JJanuary [15] -

9854:37, 9854:38,

9855:14, 9856:13,

9857:42, 9875:11,

9875:16, 9875:34,

9875:46, 9876:19,

9877:12, 9877:33,

9877:35, 9878:4,

9879:28

Jennifer [1] - 9852:34

job [1] - 9919:31

John [1] - 9920:34

join [1] - 9934:39

Jonathan [16] -

9888:3, 9899:39,

9899:41, 9903:28,

9903:38, 9903:40,

9904:41, 9905:10,

9925:38, 9930:21,

9931:21, 9931:25,

9931:32, 9938:19,

9954:31, 9955:31

Joseph [2] - 9853:5,

9853:17

JOSEPH [1] - 9853:7

Juanita [4] - 9922:37,

9925:13, 9928:10,

9953:39

judgments [1] -

9939:39

July [5] - 9874:42,

9874:44, 9927:25,

9928:45, 9961:31

July-June [1] -

.16/10/2014 (93)


13

9961:31

June [8] - 9875:37,

9876:5, 9877:11,

9902:45, 9904:31,

9931:22, 9951:44,

9961:31

jurat [1] - 9909:11

jurisdiction [3] -

9866:34, 9913:44,

9948:45

justice [2] - 9868:23,

9910:23

Justice [1] - 9852:34

Kkeep [4] - 9870:10,

9887:24, 9887:38,

9932:35

keeping [3] - 9910:22,

9910:43, 9919:31

Kernaghan [9] -

9875:2, 9875:4,

9908:16, 9908:22,

9909:24, 9935:16,

9938:7, 9938:13,

9962:18

KERNAGHAN [19] -

9875:4, 9879:44,

9908:24, 9908:32,

9909:33, 9909:40,

9909:47, 9933:3,

9933:14, 9934:23,

9935:10, 9935:14,

9935:23, 9935:29,

9938:9, 9938:11,

9938:13, 9941:31,

9962:20

key [1] - 9906:6

kicks [1] - 9928:44

Kids [3] - 9856:25,

9856:32, 9856:41

kind [2] - 9871:1,

9876:28

knowing [4] - 9859:4,

9865:26, 9918:16,

9939:6

knowledge [24] -

9853:27, 9854:12,

9854:13, 9857:15,

9858:46, 9865:28,

9869:22, 9869:23,

9870:22, 9873:22,

9887:31, 9902:10,

9903:24, 9904:26,

9920:26, 9928:16,

9934:47, 9935:35,

9935:40, 9936:25,

9956:4, 9956:34,

9959:25, 9961:29

known [6] - 9873:12,

9875:6, 9908:12,

9913:8, 9932:24,

9933:43

knows [1] - 9922:19

Llack [6] - 9871:20,

9873:25, 9873:32,

9883:12, 9920:22,

9926:21

lacking [1] - 9961:4

ladies [1] - 9856:14

laid [8] - 9864:30,

9904:28, 9904:31,

9910:18, 9914:28,

9923:17, 9932:18,

9943:4

language [2] -

9884:34, 9950:17

lapse [1] - 9917:38

lapsed [1] - 9917:42

large [4] - 9873:42,

9882:37, 9924:34

largely [4] - 9882:33,

9900:27, 9901:2,

9949:10

last [5] - 9876:1,

9907:3, 9921:24,

9945:24, 9950:42

late [2] - 9904:34,

9946:31

launch [1] - 9875:17

law [5] - 9892:17,

9892:20, 9892:34,

9925:40, 9930:21

lawyer [3] - 9886:38,

9905:7, 9907:14

lawyers [2] - 9854:18,

9905:3

lead [2] - 9883:22,

9945:1

lead-up [1] - 9945:1

leader [3] - 9856:1,

9867:31, 9951:13

leaders [7] - 9856:19,

9858:35, 9861:37,

9875:30, 9876:27,

9889:30, 9936:15

leadership [14] -

9857:24, 9865:34,

9871:21, 9881:3,

9881:13, 9882:5,

9884:33, 9884:35,

9884:44, 9885:16,

9885:34, 9889:9,

9936:16, 9949:31

leading [1] - 9950:26

leap [1] - 9934:39

least [11] - 9857:41,

9871:44, 9879:25,

9888:22, 9891:46,

9909:19, 9916:7,

9939:36, 9955:44,

9957:28

leave [5] - 9860:12,

9865:30, 9893:13,

9917:9, 9949:4

leaves [1] - 9860:27

left [4] - 9863:23,

9866:2, 9945:35,

9961:42

legal [14] - 9860:37,

9862:36, 9883:22,

9883:26, 9883:30,

9884:3, 9884:13,

9886:28, 9886:35,

9886:36, 9889:8,

9891:3, 9949:43,

9958:43

legally [1] - 9948:22

legislation [2] -

9959:7, 9960:45

legitimacy [1] - 9924:1

legitimate [1] -

9922:43

Lehmann [38] -

9854:41, 9858:8,

9875:5, 9875:42,

9877:6, 9884:37,

9908:11, 9909:6,

9909:28, 9930:17,

9931:25, 9931:33,

9932:44, 9933:6,

9933:20, 9933:22,

9933:26, 9933:43,

9934:14, 9934:27,

9935:6, 9935:41,

9936:1, 9936:6,

9938:14, 9938:19,

9938:42, 9939:1,

9939:40, 9939:45,

9940:6, 9940:29,

9940:36, 9940:39,

9941:5, 9941:16,

9941:28

Lehmann's [3] -

9904:33, 9934:46,

9936:41

lengthy [3] - 9952:14,

9952:30, 9952:39

letter [11] - 9877:17,

9878:4, 9878:29,

9896:17, 9927:33,

9927:36, 9929:24,

9929:27, 9929:30,

9929:35, 9943:23

Level [1] - 9852:21

level [43] - 9857:24,

9857:29, 9861:41,

9869:14, 9882:4,

9884:37, 9885:35,

9885:39, 9887:25,

9887:26, 9887:40,

9892:6, 9900:12,

9910:36, 9910:44,

9916:38, 9917:2,

9917:12, 9919:17,

9923:41, 9924:45,

9927:37, 9929:34,

9930:47, 9937:3,

9937:10, 9937:23,

9937:24, 9937:35,

9937:38, 9941:42,

9942:4, 9942:7,

9942:25, 9942:29,

9944:26, 9944:27,

9950:6, 9954:40,

9960:23, 9960:38

levels [1] - 9886:12

Lew [5] - 9856:14,

9872:2, 9872:9,

9886:26, 9887:47

life [5] - 9890:14,

9899:20, 9931:43,

9938:37, 9945:5

Life [2] - 9958:7,

9959:39

LIFE [1] - 9958:12

light [4] - 9865:2,

9871:1, 9929:30,

9959:20

likely [2] - 9913:30,

9920:15

limited [1] - 9935:18

limits [1] - 9935:25

line [8] - 9864:5,

9879:22, 9882:7,

9883:37, 9893:14,

9899:9, 9910:13,

9938:16

lines [2] - 9862:34,

9873:18

list [4] - 9855:8,

9855:31, 9923:42,

9924:46

listening [1] - 9944:25

local [64] - 9863:32,

9863:33, 9863:35,

9863:40, 9869:35,

9872:37, 9887:4,

9887:18, 9887:25,

9891:43, 9892:4,

9911:24, 9911:47,

9913:33, 9913:34,

9913:43, 9913:45,

9913:46, 9915:9,

9915:10, 9915:14,

9915:30, 9915:31,

9916:23, 9917:2,

9921:42, 9925:44,

9930:2, 9930:40,

9930:41, 9930:42,

9931:11, 9931:14,

9936:13, 9936:14,

9937:10, 9937:35,

9937:45, 9942:4,

9945:13, 9945:39,

9945:43, 9945:44,

9946:28, 9947:36,

9947:44, 9947:45,

9947:47, 9948:12,

9948:15, 9948:20,

9948:21, 9948:26,

9948:35, 9948:46,

9949:10, 9949:11,

9949:20, 9950:11,

9950:18, 9956:45

Lockwood [7] -

9908:13, 9908:43,

9908:47, 9909:10,

9909:19, 9909:21,

9909:25

LOCKWOOD [1] -

9908:29

logical [2] - 9934:39,

9936:30

look [15] - 9876:40,

9881:26, 9887:43,

9888:29, 9895:15,

9899:27, 9923:35,

9925:29, 9927:41,

9936:31, 9943:11,

9951:4, 9953:38,

9956:12, 9957:22

looked [7] - 9857:24,

9857:27, 9879:5,

9881:26, 9905:25,

9955:15, 9955:25

looking [2] - 9854:20,

9937:26

looks [3] - 9882:10,

9890:3, 9893:31

loop [2] - 9890:28,

9891:6

loose [2] - 9875:38,

9934:30

loosely [1] - 9876:26

Lord [1] - 9860:6

lunch [2] - 9907:40,

9910:4

LUNCHEON [1] -

9907:43

Lyndon [4] - 9878:16,

9897:3, 9897:4,

9897:5

MMacquarie [1] -

9852:21

.16/10/2014 (93)


14

mail [5] - 9873:43,

9874:36, 9880:17,

9922:36, 9958:36

mailing [1] - 9924:46

maintain [1] - 9933:14

major [5] - 9858:45,

9864:16, 9889:32,

9893:36, 9952:22

man [8] - 9867:30,

9867:32, 9874:17,

9883:47, 9885:19,

9915:42, 9921:28,

9934:4

man's [1] - 9916:2

manage [1] - 9901:1

management [2] -

9857:23, 9949:36

manager [2] - 9890:3,

9890:28

managers [1] -

9889:31

mandatory [3] -

9861:42, 9886:16,

9905:44

manner [1] - 9940:46

manual [23] - 9855:39,

9855:43, 9855:47,

9856:23, 9856:27,

9857:41, 9857:44,

9858:4, 9858:28,

9859:45, 9868:16,

9870:17, 9879:27,

9879:30, 9879:39,

9906:7, 9907:35,

9910:13, 9915:7,

9918:24, 9931:47,

9932:2

March [8] - 9867:1,

9869:20, 9869:25,

9887:47, 9917:4,

9917:6, 9917:26,

9919:15

mark [1] - 9908:27

mass [1] - 9923:40

material [5] - 9856:23,

9856:30, 9876:47,

9934:6, 9937:2

materials [1] - 9909:7

matter [55] - 9862:36,

9862:37, 9863:16,

9863:35, 9863:36,

9863:41, 9864:28,

9865:7, 9865:24,

9869:34, 9869:41,

9872:47, 9873:19,

9874:34, 9875:22,

9876:33, 9880:37,

9885:16, 9888:28,

9890:34, 9890:47,

9895:36, 9898:24,

9898:30, 9899:36,

9901:19, 9903:38,

9904:45, 9904:46,

9905:5, 9905:14,

9907:14, 9910:4,

9911:21, 9912:23,

9914:5, 9914:29,

9916:7, 9916:45,

9921:41, 9922:31,

9925:20, 9925:24,

9928:28, 9929:16,

9932:36, 9932:39,

9932:43, 9939:13,

9940:20, 9940:22,

9940:29, 9940:37,

9952:28, 9953:2

matters [38] - 9857:6,

9862:34, 9862:35,

9868:8, 9869:11,

9870:12, 9871:28,

9878:11, 9882:19,

9885:29, 9888:28,

9892:45, 9893:15,

9893:35, 9898:46,

9899:19, 9912:30,

9914:10, 9919:27,

9920:11, 9927:20,

9927:26, 9927:42,

9929:24, 9931:38,

9933:31, 9933:43,

9936:9, 9936:13,

9937:24, 9937:39,

9938:29, 9954:27,

9955:19, 9955:38,

9956:35, 9960:13,

9961:23

Maynes [3] - 9908:3,

9908:12, 9908:18

MAYNES [1] - 9908:29

me" [1] - 9944:18

mean [15] - 9859:18,

9860:21, 9893:33,

9899:2, 9905:43,

9906:29, 9915:29,

9924:35, 9936:15,

9939:38, 9948:31,

9948:36, 9950:21,

9950:35, 9952:22

means [1] - 9902:27

meant [2] - 9859:27,

9917:18

meantime [1] -

9942:14

measure [1] - 9907:19

measures [1] - 9906:6

media [9] - 9866:15,

9866:22, 9866:25,

9866:27, 9887:27,

9891:38, 9891:42,

9891:45, 9891:47

mediation [4] -

9922:16, 9926:16,

9954:10, 9954:12

meet [2] - 9929:32,

9943:47

meeting [15] -

9877:22, 9877:24,

9880:26, 9903:31,

9910:9, 9910:17,

9912:17, 9912:46,

9929:37, 9939:43,

9944:3, 9951:19,

9951:22, 9951:33,

9952:1

meetings [1] -

9951:37

Melissa [3] - 9908:3,

9908:12

MELISSA [1] -

9908:29

Member [1] - 9852:34

member [33] -

9861:31, 9872:3,

9904:7, 9907:15,

9912:43, 9919:11,

9937:37, 9939:6,

9939:33, 9941:16,

9942:29, 9945:10,

9945:12, 9945:13,

9945:16, 9945:22,

9945:43, 9945:44,

9946:2, 9947:5,

9947:7, 9947:34,

9947:35, 9947:41,

9947:45, 9948:12,

9948:13, 9950:14,

9951:24, 9951:28,

9955:36, 9961:16

MEMBER [56] -

9853:1, 9855:28,

9855:35, 9875:2,

9879:47, 9883:43,

9884:2, 9884:8,

9884:16, 9884:21,

9884:26, 9891:11,

9897:14, 9899:32,

9899:36, 9901:13,

9901:17, 9901:32,

9902:15, 9907:40,

9907:45, 9908:7,

9908:20, 9908:27,

9909:23, 9909:38,

9909:43, 9910:2,

9935:16, 9935:25,

9938:7, 9941:34,

9944:39, 9947:25,

9948:33, 9949:6,

9950:21, 9950:30,

9950:44, 9952:45,

9954:21, 9954:25,

9956:25, 9956:29,

9957:18, 9958:9,

9958:19, 9959:16,

9959:34, 9961:36,

9961:47, 9962:6,

9962:17, 9962:25,

9962:30, 9962:36

member" [1] -

9947:31

members [24] -

9858:2, 9859:5,

9867:37, 9872:1,

9872:7, 9884:47,

9913:45, 9919:16,

9934:3, 9947:44,

9947:46, 9948:40,

9948:45, 9949:7,

9949:8, 9949:11,

9949:12, 9949:14,

9949:26, 9950:6,

9954:28

membership [9] -

9947:43, 9948:2,

9948:11, 9948:20,

9948:27, 9948:35,

9949:11, 9950:10

memo [2] - 9957:31,

9959:46

memory [4] - 9878:3,

9957:3, 9958:33,

9960:26

men [1] - 9892:1

mention [2] - 9905:2

mentioned [4] -

9892:28, 9892:31,

9897:8, 9957:36

mess [1] - 9954:12

message [1] - 9873:27

met [8] - 9858:35,

9859:24, 9918:31,

9929:10, 9944:3,

9944:5, 9944:29,

9951:35

microphones [2] -

9853:42, 9855:12

mid [1] - 9884:22

mid-morning [1] -

9884:22

might [25] - 9853:42,

9857:8, 9857:36,

9860:30, 9865:30,

9872:22, 9875:27,

9886:19, 9886:20,

9889:12, 9889:26,

9892:4, 9899:27,

9906:41, 9923:37,

9926:33, 9944:21,

9945:47, 9946:9,

9946:43, 9948:5,

9948:8, 9948:9,

9949:22, 9954:16

million [1] - 9889:5

mind [7] - 9860:7,

9874:3, 9880:29,

9880:37, 9892:44,

9923:35, 9941:24

mindset [1] - 9879:17

minimise [3] - 9890:6,

9899:8, 9922:1

minimising [1] -

9890:9

minister [19] -

9859:12, 9861:27,

9862:32, 9866:15,

9872:31, 9872:33,

9882:36, 9883:5,

9887:18, 9896:11,

9897:5, 9902:3,

9902:26, 9910:24,

9913:21, 9913:36,

9914:19, 9919:7,

9939:6

minister's [1] -

9917:36

ministering [1] -

9907:22

Ministers [1] - 9877:6

ministers [5] -

9866:16, 9872:37,

9914:5, 9948:42,

9950:11

ministries [5] -

9858:36, 9859:46,

9902:24, 9902:44,

9903:9

ministry [22] -

9856:20, 9856:25,

9856:32, 9858:29,

9858:36, 9859:6,

9860:6, 9861:16,

9861:19, 9861:36,

9862:47, 9863:8,

9868:31, 9875:17,

9875:33, 9878:34,

9882:34, 9906:36,

9907:26, 9907:28,

9917:37, 9960:10

minor [1] - 9913:3

minor' [1] - 9903:41

minute [1] - 9877:22

minutes [7] - 9884:22,

9895:47, 9896:4,

9896:6, 9896:10,

9951:22

Minutes [1] - 9877:5

misled [1] - 9904:36

missed [1] - 9917:18

modifications [1] -

9857:37

moment [6] - 9880:40,

.16/10/2014 (93)


15

9889:24, 9905:17,

9935:27, 9946:40,

9959:38

monitor [4] - 9931:42,

9932:23, 9938:36,

9942:7

monitoring [5] -

9910:22, 9910:43,

9931:38, 9938:29,

9955:33

month [2] - 9858:47,

9871:36

months [6] - 9854:16,

9854:42, 9866:30,

9890:17, 9922:10,

9951:39

moral [5] - 9883:22,

9883:26, 9884:8,

9939:35, 9939:39

morning [7] - 9874:35,

9879:21, 9884:22,

9920:7, 9920:33,

9953:15, 9961:45

most [3] - 9893:41,

9930:39, 9951:37

mother [8] - 9857:9,

9857:10, 9880:5,

9880:26, 9928:26,

9929:6, 9941:41,

9942:19

move [1] - 9932:42

moved [3] - 9866:2,

9887:40, 9915:35

movement [29] -

9856:33, 9893:46,

9895:3, 9895:12,

9896:42, 9903:2,

9913:32, 9913:33,

9913:42, 9914:47,

9915:15, 9915:24,

9916:24, 9916:47,

9918:27, 9923:44,

9930:4, 9931:9,

9936:33, 9937:43,

9946:29, 9946:42,

9947:41, 9948:45,

9949:1, 9949:12,

9950:9, 9954:44,

9955:24

movement's [1] -

9945:16

multi [1] - 9889:5

multi-million [1] -

9889:5

mum [1] - 9942:47

must [4] - 9893:14,

9937:45, 9954:37,

9956:39

mystified [1] -

9928:37

Nname [16] - 9853:15,

9866:26, 9869:15,

9875:4, 9891:16,

9892:27, 9892:31,

9901:44, 9924:3,

9924:5, 9925:25,

9938:13, 9941:40,

9957:27, 9961:16

name's [2] - 9880:4,

9951:1

named [1] - 9878:16

namely [1] - 9860:26

names [1] - 9949:21

national [28] - 9858:2,

9858:8, 9865:8,

9865:9, 9882:1,

9882:3, 9882:11,

9894:23, 9894:25,

9895:3, 9895:12,

9906:7, 9906:14,

9906:20, 9914:10,

9917:22, 9927:37,

9937:33, 9937:38,

9937:44, 9950:5,

9955:11, 9955:13,

9955:23, 9960:24,

9961:44

naturally [1] - 9879:14

nature [9] - 9858:14,

9862:33, 9900:9,

9902:47, 9903:1,

9913:6, 9913:12,

9947:16, 9954:41

navigate [1] - 9893:32

nearly [1] - 9898:43

necessarily [4] -

9906:23, 9912:8,

9921:40, 9941:16

necessary [4] -

9864:18, 9903:7,

9930:42, 9955:25

need [15] - 9855:9,

9870:1, 9870:38,

9881:34, 9883:10,

9886:20, 9893:39,

9894:4, 9899:11,

9910:45, 9921:4,

9945:33, 9947:30,

9957:22, 9961:8

needed [12] - 9858:39,

9859:26, 9864:7,

9864:12, 9875:25,

9875:27, 9880:30,

9887:35, 9889:6,

9937:17, 9960:38

needing [2] - 9853:33,

9882:28

needs [4] - 9899:23,

9919:32, 9919:36,

9961:4

negligence [1] -

9936:11

negligent [2] - 9936:7,

9939:46

negotiate [1] -

9890:40

negotiated [1] -

9891:7

Neil [3] - 9901:24,

9959:5, 9961:16

never [4] - 9900:14,

9918:5, 9918:26,

9947:10

New [2] - 9958:6,

9959:38

new [10] - 9858:25,

9876:9, 9876:15,

9877:27, 9889:17,

9889:38, 9889:41,

9896:18, 9899:41,

9936:16

NEW [1] - 9958:11

newly [1] - 9909:34

News [1] - 9891:43

news [5] - 9892:1,

9892:2, 9899:39,

9916:5, 9955:17

newsletter [2] -

9958:26, 9958:47

newspaper [1] -

9891:43

next [7] - 9861:5,

9870:24, 9910:38,

9912:16, 9934:44,

9937:23, 9938:2

night [2] - 9864:7

night-to-night [1] -

9864:7

no" [1] - 9897:40

no-one [1] - 9923:41

No.1 [1] - 9954:1

nobody [5] - 9912:25,

9919:30, 9924:44,

9924:45, 9954:12

nods) [2] - 9874:22,

9895:19

non [2] - 9889:45,

9938:39

non-responsive [1] -

9938:39

non-trading [1] -

9889:45

nonchalant [1] -

9859:27

none [1] - 9871:45

normal [5] - 9879:11,

9882:6, 9915:32,

9917:36, 9917:42

normally [3] - 9865:4,

9896:4, 9917:1

noses [1] - 9884:43

note [2] - 9862:13,

9878:30

noted [2] - 9864:21,

9892:6

notes [3] - 9879:5,

9879:38, 9954:3

nothing [14] - 9890:9,

9897:12, 9898:35,

9899:34, 9901:15,

9901:30, 9916:14,

9929:6, 9950:40,

9952:43, 9954:19,

9954:23, 9956:27,

9959:29

notice [3] - 9854:44,

9897:33, 9961:41

notification [1] -

9911:36

notified [2] - 9853:44,

9864:36

notwithstanding [2] -

9924:41, 9929:1

November [20] -

9864:45, 9864:47,

9865:16, 9865:24,

9877:43, 9877:45,

9878:5, 9904:28,

9904:42, 9904:44,

9905:10, 9905:15,

9905:18, 9905:27,

9907:9, 9907:13,

9929:37, 9944:9,

9944:16, 9945:29

November/

December [1] -

9951:45

number [21] -

9856:41, 9869:14,

9872:1, 9873:42,

9882:37, 9899:3,

9906:12, 9914:3,

9920:5, 9924:34,

9929:14, 9930:11,

9933:43, 9933:47,

9934:2, 9934:37,

9940:11, 9944:6,

9947:12, 9960:5,

9960:44

numbers [6] - 9889:6,

9893:41, 9893:44,

9894:37, 9894:39,

9895:16

numerous [1] - 9934:5

OO'Brien [11] - 9879:47,

9880:4, 9884:26,

9891:11, 9898:16,

9941:34, 9941:40,

9947:26, 9947:38,

9950:21, 9950:31

O'BRIEN [21] - 9880:2,

9880:4, 9883:40,

9883:45, 9884:11,

9884:19, 9884:28,

9888:42, 9891:9,

9941:36, 9941:38,

9941:40, 9944:43,

9945:35, 9947:19,

9947:28, 9947:33,

9948:35, 9950:24,

9950:33, 9950:40

object [8] - 9883:29,

9908:25, 9925:4,

9933:3, 9934:23,

9935:10, 9944:36,

9947:10

objecting [1] -

9908:21

objection [8] - 9884:3,

9933:14, 9933:18,

9933:19, 9934:40,

9935:17, 9935:19,

9948:30

obligation [10] -

9865:37, 9866:11,

9869:35, 9883:4,

9888:27, 9889:33,

9916:37, 9916:39,

9932:2, 9939:35

observation [1] -

9908:38

observations [1] -

9908:13

observe [2] - 9860:20,

9861:37

observed [1] -

9861:11

obtain [3] - 9864:43,

9912:1, 9912:4

obtained [1] - 9873:44

obvious [2] - 9881:30,

9943:22

obviously [45] -

9853:34, 9856:24,

9860:36, 9866:26,

9871:1, 9872:32,

9874:13, 9877:25,

9880:10, 9880:47,

9881:7, 9881:34,

9882:36, 9882:38,

9883:46, 9885:34,

9887:36, 9889:8,

9890:27, 9894:43,

9900:37, 9905:43,

9909:40, 9912:17,

9913:16, 9914:26,

9915:29, 9915:44,

.16/10/2014 (93)


16

9917:28, 9923:40,

9924:3, 9926:15,

9927:34, 9927:36,

9928:21, 9929:47,

9930:2, 9932:1,

9933:7, 9939:22,

9950:9, 9954:11,

9956:13, 9956:38,

9961:13

occasion [2] - 9858:1,

9875:23

occasions [3] -

9933:47, 9947:12,

9951:36

occupation [1] -

9902:3

occupied [1] -

9902:34

occur [5] - 9918:19,

9918:20, 9936:11,

9937:20, 9943:26

occurred [10] -

9874:42, 9878:33,

9911:41, 9919:17,

9928:14, 9929:3,

9934:13, 9934:47,

9952:28, 9955:46

occurrence [1] -

9930:1

occurring [1] -

9943:41

OCTOBER [1] -

9962:39

October [36] -

9852:27, 9853:22,

9873:31, 9873:47,

9874:6, 9874:43,

9895:25, 9895:29,

9895:38, 9897:26,

9897:27, 9902:39,

9902:42, 9905:29,

9908:3, 9908:18,

9920:25, 9920:31,

9920:34, 9922:35,

9923:15, 9924:42,

9927:16, 9927:18,

9927:27, 9929:2,

9946:17, 9952:16,

9952:31, 9952:39,

9953:9, 9953:26,

9953:30, 9953:40,

9953:45, 9954:2

OF [4] - 9854:32,

9902:17, 9908:29,

9958:22

offence [1] - 9943:7

offences [5] -

9903:44, 9918:5,

9943:40, 9943:43,

9959:21

offender [1] - 9866:26

offender's [1] -

9892:27

offer [4] - 9864:14,

9864:20, 9925:17,

9945:32

offered [3] - 9868:2,

9872:35, 9886:5

offering [1] - 9913:39

offers [2] - 9882:27,

9949:31

office [14] - 9869:1,

9869:4, 9877:1,

9878:4, 9878:10,

9878:29, 9893:33,

9895:17, 9898:11,

9904:47, 9917:12,

9917:18, 9918:12,

9928:22

officer [4] - 9904:6,

9905:4, 9905:7,

9925:25

official [1] - 9925:42

officially [2] - 9903:37,

9954:31

officially" [1] - 9951:7

often [2] - 9867:31,

9892:45

omitted [1] - 9872:32

once [3] - 9861:10,

9906:33, 9927:34

one [45] - 9857:7,

9857:9, 9857:25,

9857:26, 9860:27,

9860:30, 9862:28,

9864:5, 9867:46,

9871:11, 9872:26,

9873:22, 9874:2,

9877:26, 9878:41,

9881:1, 9882:8,

9882:41, 9884:37,

9885:35, 9889:44,

9891:29, 9899:10,

9899:36, 9901:19,

9903:1, 9906:6,

9906:13, 9917:24,

9919:26, 9920:33,

9923:41, 9930:15,

9935:7, 9953:2,

9954:29, 9955:9,

9958:16, 9959:18,

9959:23, 9959:38,

9961:3, 9961:15,

9962:23

one-on-one [1] -

9867:46

ones [2] - 9934:10,

9952:16

ongoing [6] - 9878:10,

9936:18, 9943:10,

9949:34, 9955:21,

9955:32

online [1] - 9960:25

onset [1] - 9901:11

open [10] - 9854:8,

9860:12, 9860:28,

9864:7, 9866:18,

9882:27, 9893:38,

9893:39, 9945:27,

9945:28

operate [2] - 9872:33,

9949:20

operated [1] - 9860:25

operation [1] -

9857:25

opinion [6] - 9875:9,

9936:1, 9936:5,

9938:40, 9939:46,

9940:33

opportune [1] -

9884:21

opportunities [2] -

9936:39, 9949:34

opportunity [10] -

9860:8, 9893:4,

9895:31, 9896:41,

9925:15, 9925:16,

9945:19, 9955:44,

9956:18, 9957:4

opposed [3] -

9860:18, 9867:21,

9884:17

opposing [1] -

9867:29

ordained [3] - 9949:8,

9949:26, 9950:11

order [2] - 9922:35,

9926:21

ordination [1] -

9900:25

organisation [19] -

9871:6, 9876:11,

9879:11, 9882:16,

9886:11, 9899:7,

9900:37, 9921:28,

9946:3, 9946:11,

9948:7, 9948:13,

9948:25, 9948:41,

9949:36, 9950:5,

9959:26

organisation's [1] -

9922:2

organised [2] -

9890:38, 9890:43

originally [1] -

9944:15

otherwise [2] -

9932:4, 9940:5

outcome [4] -

9890:15, 9911:18,

9911:29, 9916:3

outline [1] - 9927:26

outlined [1] - 9952:32

overall [3] - 9856:27,

9857:36, 9901:3

overarching [1] -

9871:5

overhead [1] - 9958:2

overnight [1] - 9908:2

oversee [1] - 9858:45

overt [1] - 9900:20

own [4] - 9872:33,

9887:8, 9936:13,

9948:15

owned [1] - 9889:34

Ppaedophile [1] -

9918:26

page [22] - 9855:46,

9859:30, 9860:46,

9861:6, 9877:11,

9877:42, 9877:47,

9878:13, 9878:14,

9879:22, 9896:16,

9921:25, 9931:3,

9940:13, 9940:14,

9957:26, 9958:42,

9958:47, 9959:4,

9960:30, 9960:31

pages [1] - 9875:39

paid [3] - 9861:20,

9876:38

pain [2] - 9923:22,

9943:17

paper [1] - 9892:7

paragraph [25] -

9860:2, 9860:30,

9864:34, 9872:14,

9872:45, 9877:43,

9877:45, 9877:46,

9889:16, 9891:20,

9903:33, 9904:37,

9909:24, 9921:23,

9921:24, 9921:45,

9923:36, 9924:8,

9924:32, 9930:10,

9940:13, 9940:15,

9951:3, 9951:4,

9951:16

paragraphs [1] -

9922:7

pardon [1] - 9892:18

parents [21] - 9855:5,

9863:27, 9863:31,

9863:36, 9863:40,

9864:6, 9867:37,

9867:45, 9869:9,

9869:22, 9869:35,

9916:27, 9918:30,

9919:28, 9919:32,

9920:21, 9920:27,

9927:17, 9935:39,

9946:13, 9947:21

parish [1] - 9882:36

part [37] - 9855:38,

9855:43, 9856:27,

9857:41, 9857:43,

9858:18, 9859:44,

9863:3, 9863:4,

9863:27, 9865:22,

9873:39, 9874:33,

9879:26, 9879:30,

9881:39, 9884:4,

9889:23, 9894:8,

9896:37, 9898:5,

9903:9, 9903:26,

9906:19, 9906:36,

9912:29, 9916:44,

9917:19, 9918:40,

9930:40, 9934:29,

9945:23, 9945:38,

9946:40, 9949:17,

9959:47, 9961:28

participate [1] -

9946:42

participated [1] -

9957:4

particular [51] -

9856:22, 9856:36,

9857:4, 9857:5,

9858:4, 9858:9,

9858:15, 9858:42,

9858:45, 9859:21,

9862:15, 9864:28,

9865:31, 9866:2,

9867:36, 9869:32,

9873:43, 9874:36,

9875:22, 9880:17,

9884:32, 9896:40,

9901:25, 9903:16,

9909:23, 9910:16,

9911:21, 9912:23,

9912:29, 9912:38,

9913:14, 9914:3,

9915:30, 9916:21,

9917:13, 9917:19,

9934:36, 9936:10,

9936:19, 9936:21,

9936:26, 9936:27,

9948:15, 9950:11,

9955:42, 9956:6,

9956:8, 9956:12,

9956:16, 9959:46,

9961:16

particularise [1] -

9933:4

particularly [11] -

9862:32, 9867:45,

9870:11, 9896:46,

.16/10/2014 (93)


17

9908:10, 9913:13,

9923:36, 9927:6,

9939:29, 9955:32,

9960:29

parties [2] - 9869:12,

9957:9

parts [2] - 9853:32,

9930:8

party [3] - 9876:32,

9920:40, 9946:25

pass [1] - 9893:13

passed [2] - 9861:27,

9871:36

passing [1] - 9916:11

past [4] - 9939:12,

9939:20, 9939:25,

9939:26

paste [2] - 9856:26,

9856:38

pastor [67] - 9854:36,

9855:14, 9856:5,

9857:34, 9862:41,

9863:21, 9863:33,

9863:35, 9863:40,

9865:41, 9865:43,

9866:13, 9866:29,

9867:43, 9868:20,

9868:27, 9874:30,

9875:33, 9878:34,

9879:41, 9880:38,

9882:36, 9882:47,

9886:9, 9897:20,

9899:13, 9899:18,

9899:37, 9900:6,

9900:18, 9901:32,

9902:27, 9902:31,

9911:24, 9911:29,

9912:42, 9915:23,

9915:26, 9916:12,

9916:21, 9918:16,

9918:46, 9921:10,

9925:40, 9930:35,

9931:47, 9932:3,

9934:1, 9934:14,

9936:2, 9936:15,

9936:18, 9936:30,

9939:4, 9939:12,

9939:19, 9939:20,

9939:22, 9939:25,

9939:28, 9939:29,

9940:6, 9955:1,

9959:20

Pastor [68] - 9853:11,

9853:47, 9854:35,

9854:41, 9858:8,

9859:18, 9864:40,

9864:41, 9864:44,

9865:15, 9865:16,

9869:40, 9874:47,

9875:5, 9903:39,

9903:47, 9904:6,

9904:9, 9904:10,

9904:11, 9904:33,

9908:1, 9908:11,

9909:6, 9909:28,

9910:3, 9911:25,

9912:40, 9916:26,

9919:44, 9920:5,

9920:8, 9928:37,

9930:17, 9931:25,

9931:33, 9932:44,

9933:6, 9933:20,

9933:22, 9933:26,

9933:43, 9934:14,

9934:27, 9934:46,

9935:6, 9935:41,

9936:1, 9936:6,

9936:18, 9936:41,

9936:45, 9938:19,

9939:39, 9939:45,

9940:6, 9940:29,

9940:36, 9940:39,

9941:5, 9941:16,

9941:28, 9951:11,

9952:23, 9952:32,

9961:37, 9961:42,

9961:43

pastor" [1] - 9926:2

pastor's [3] - 9861:36,

9863:11, 9906:8

pastoral [25] -

9857:24, 9857:26,

9857:27, 9859:25,

9862:34, 9864:10,

9864:11, 9864:24,

9867:5, 9869:35,

9874:17, 9876:37,

9881:35, 9882:47,

9890:22, 9900:9,

9900:22, 9914:25,

9914:45, 9916:26,

9916:28, 9916:36,

9919:32, 9946:33,

9960:6

pastoring [3] -

9865:43, 9876:1,

9901:27

pastors [21] - 9866:12,

9874:2, 9882:8,

9893:46, 9896:28,

9896:40, 9901:25,

9903:2, 9905:37,

9905:38, 9907:35,

9931:12, 9936:34,

9936:37, 9937:1,

9947:44, 9956:34,

9957:32, 9957:37,

9958:27, 9958:43

peculiarities [1] -

9936:21

pending [1] - 9916:3

pent [1] - 9943:39

people [40] - 9856:15,

9857:3, 9858:17,

9858:25, 9858:27,

9858:30, 9859:24,

9867:16, 9867:20,

9867:29, 9867:34,

9867:47, 9868:1,

9868:2, 9872:1,

9873:43, 9882:37,

9882:41, 9889:31,

9899:47, 9900:3,

9901:3, 9901:8,

9901:9, 9914:46,

9916:12, 9916:18,

9916:41, 9919:37,

9920:5, 9923:40,

9924:34, 9931:32,

9933:28, 9938:18,

9946:47, 9949:17,

9949:18, 9956:37,

9957:46

perceived [1] -

9869:16

percentage [1] -

9896:32

perfectly [1] - 9855:32

perhaps [14] -

9857:11, 9860:19,

9863:40, 9867:22,

9884:21, 9891:21,

9899:5, 9904:36,

9910:28, 9923:37,

9937:32, 9940:12,

9955:43, 9962:30

period [24] - 9854:40,

9855:18, 9858:1,

9864:15, 9866:30,

9866:42, 9866:44,

9867:4, 9867:26,

9874:43, 9899:45,

9914:33, 9914:41,

9914:46, 9916:29,

9916:39, 9922:16,

9930:27, 9932:44,

9933:4, 9933:5,

9933:6, 9933:12,

9942:42

permanent [2] -

9910:39, 9917:27

permanently [2] -

9868:28, 9926:43

perpetrator [2] -

9864:3, 9918:45

person [12] - 9864:4,

9866:26, 9868:31,

9877:26, 9878:15,

9881:41, 9906:35,

9908:12, 9908:35,

9948:5, 9953:21,

9957:44

personal [9] -

9883:46, 9887:39,

9891:29, 9899:9,

9900:33, 9929:34,

9943:25, 9943:26

personally [12] -

9853:44, 9875:36,

9903:30, 9917:8,

9924:5, 9927:38,

9929:32, 9939:4,

9946:30, 9953:34,

9953:35, 9961:24

persons [1] - 9897:8

perspective [2] -

9899:4, 9930:4

Peterson [23] -

9853:5, 9853:17,

9854:35, 9859:18,

9872:2, 9874:47,

9897:20, 9898:6,

9904:10, 9911:25,

9916:26, 9919:44,

9920:5, 9920:8,

9936:18, 9951:2,

9952:11, 9952:15,

9952:20, 9952:23,

9952:27, 9952:32,

9962:23

PETERSON [2] -

9853:7, 9854:32

Peterson's [1] -

9936:45

philosophy [2] -

9855:47, 9859:37

phone [20] - 9853:45,

9865:19, 9873:22,

9887:41, 9893:41,

9893:44, 9894:34,

9903:6, 9904:5,

9907:14, 9927:40,

9927:43, 9928:34,

9943:28, 9944:6,

9945:27, 9951:28,

9952:14, 9953:14

photocopy [1] -

9958:24

phrase [1] - 9874:4

pick [1] - 9927:40

picked [1] - 9894:34

pin [1] - 9940:40

place [29] - 9871:27,

9874:36, 9875:35,

9880:22, 9885:28,

9886:10, 9886:12,

9887:30, 9889:20,

9893:14, 9893:39,

9911:6, 9911:47,

9912:4, 9917:16,

9919:36, 9921:13,

9926:40, 9927:7,

9928:39, 9930:31,

9930:41, 9931:12,

9931:14, 9936:35,

9949:25, 9960:38,

9961:10

Place [1] - 9852:22

placed [3] - 9866:12,

9867:37, 9867:45

plain [1] - 9949:46

pleaded [1] - 9942:20

pleases [1] - 9961:45

plus [1] - 9899:23

point [22] - 9861:19,

9863:14, 9865:28,

9876:42, 9904:31,

9908:17, 9909:41,

9909:45, 9910:4,

9913:41, 9915:43,

9927:22, 9927:44,

9930:15, 9932:19,

9937:42, 9939:4,

9941:22, 9941:28,

9943:17, 9947:36,

9947:38

pointed [1] - 9936:20

points [3] - 9853:29,

9859:40, 9893:36

police [18] - 9862:5,

9862:25, 9862:35,

9862:43, 9863:32,

9863:33, 9863:41,

9903:21, 9904:30,

9905:42, 9907:5,

9911:33, 9911:46,

9914:28, 9932:47,

9940:30, 9943:41,

9957:44

Police [8] - 9905:36,

9905:39, 9905:45,

9906:2, 9906:46,

9911:10, 9931:22,

9932:10

policies [30] -

9855:19, 9856:42,

9858:10, 9861:40,

9865:34, 9890:44,

9896:19, 9896:35,

9896:42, 9903:11,

9926:39, 9927:7,

9932:30, 9936:25,

9936:35, 9937:9,

9937:14, 9937:34,

9949:37, 9949:40,

9955:6, 9955:25,

9955:33, 9955:40,

9956:13, 9959:24,

9959:27, 9961:3

Policy [5] - 9859:32,

.16/10/2014 (93)


18

9877:7, 9877:13,

9878:3, 9961:10

policy [37] - 9855:39,

9856:2, 9856:9,

9858:15, 9858:42,

9859:37, 9860:7,

9860:24, 9860:43,

9861:45, 9862:11,

9862:16, 9862:17,

9862:22, 9862:29,

9862:40, 9862:46,

9863:10, 9863:15,

9875:8, 9875:34,

9875:35, 9876:9,

9876:15, 9878:38,

9879:39, 9882:27,

9890:39, 9893:39,

9905:44, 9930:31,

9930:40, 9930:45,

9937:46, 9939:3

poorly [1] - 9956:35

port [1] - 9930:2

portion [3] - 9856:9,

9856:12, 9873:42

poses [1] - 9871:24

position [23] -

9861:20, 9861:31,

9861:37, 9862:31,

9871:43, 9879:41,

9883:47, 9885:10,

9885:15, 9886:42,

9886:43, 9887:1,

9889:8, 9902:34,

9902:38, 9902:47,

9903:1, 9904:10,

9904:11, 9904:19,

9939:33, 9952:6,

9955:26

positive [1] - 9867:40

positively [1] - 9901:3

possibilities [1] -

9886:39

possibility [4] -

9906:24, 9906:35,

9940:2, 9946:46

possible [10] - 9868:3,

9879:5, 9879:42,

9896:14, 9914:27,

9927:8, 9930:3,

9931:42, 9938:36,

9946:5

possibly [6] - 9856:42,

9878:35, 9896:14,

9900:22, 9900:38,

9940:7

post [4] - 9933:5,

9936:5, 9939:42,

9940:33

potential [2] -

9886:18, 9889:37

power [5] - 9906:15,

9906:26, 9937:44,

9950:4

powers [2] - 9954:29,

9955:45

practical [1] - 9864:12

practising [1] -

9913:20

prayer [1] - 9864:11

preamble [1] -

9859:36

precarious [1] -

9889:8

preceding [2] -

9877:46, 9878:14

precinct [1] - 9862:36

precise [3] - 9897:23,

9904:44, 9910:28

precisely [1] - 9881:31

predated [1] - 9940:29

predecessor [2] -

9883:16

preface [1] - 9889:4

premise [1] - 9933:16

premised [1] -

9908:42

preparation [9] -

9855:22, 9856:4,

9857:4, 9857:13,

9875:10, 9876:6,

9877:38, 9898:34,

9905:28

prepared [13] -

9856:34, 9857:20,

9864:17, 9875:18,

9875:21, 9877:28,

9877:35, 9888:34,

9890:9, 9896:4,

9898:23, 9952:6,

9953:35

preparing [9] -

9856:13, 9856:15,

9897:36, 9905:25,

9940:45, 9952:7,

9952:11, 9952:21,

9952:26

prerogative [1] -

9911:2

present [7] - 9887:25,

9910:9, 9939:12,

9939:20, 9939:22,

9950:36, 9951:23

presentation [1] -

9926:42

presented [2] -

9877:39, 9900:46

president [22] -

9865:3, 9866:9,

9882:3, 9882:4,

9882:9, 9893:35,

9894:17, 9894:18,

9894:25, 9894:31,

9899:7, 9899:14,

9902:36, 9906:14,

9906:21, 9906:26,

9906:30, 9920:35,

9923:6, 9925:11,

9961:43, 9961:44

Presiding [1] -

9852:34

PRESIDING [56] -

9853:1, 9855:28,

9855:35, 9875:2,

9879:47, 9883:43,

9884:2, 9884:8,

9884:16, 9884:21,

9884:26, 9891:11,

9897:14, 9899:32,

9899:36, 9901:13,

9901:17, 9901:32,

9902:15, 9907:40,

9907:45, 9908:7,

9908:20, 9908:27,

9909:23, 9909:38,

9909:43, 9910:2,

9935:16, 9935:25,

9938:7, 9941:34,

9944:39, 9947:25,

9948:33, 9949:6,

9950:21, 9950:30,

9950:44, 9952:45,

9954:21, 9954:25,

9956:25, 9956:29,

9957:18, 9958:9,

9958:19, 9959:16,

9959:34, 9961:36,

9961:47, 9962:6,

9962:17, 9962:25,

9962:30, 9962:36

pressing [1] - 9880:37

pressure [5] -

9867:39, 9867:45,

9881:39, 9883:5,

9883:27

pressures [1] -

9867:37

presumably [1] -

9894:46

presume [7] -

9869:25, 9902:26,

9911:14, 9912:25,

9918:12, 9936:42,

9960:22

presumed [1] -

9867:33

pretty [3] - 9866:25,

9870:30, 9882:15

previous [4] -

9872:45, 9909:33,

9952:1, 9952:16

previously [2] -

9909:30, 9913:43

primarily [1] - 9862:36

primary [3] - 9859:44,

9890:4, 9899:47

principal [1] - 9909:8

print [1] - 9891:45

privately [1] - 9869:17

probationary [2] -

9897:5, 9917:35

problem [2] - 9899:11,

9937:7

procedure [3] -

9861:5, 9862:17,

9879:16

procedures [13] -

9856:1, 9865:1,

9865:35, 9869:2,

9869:10, 9870:16,

9899:22, 9955:6,

9955:26, 9955:34,

9956:13, 9959:24,

9959:27

proceed [1] - 9863:11

proceedings [14] -

9855:3, 9873:22,

9881:30, 9898:19,

9905:28, 9908:33,

9908:40, 9910:29,

9910:44, 9911:19,

9911:30, 9911:36,

9919:31, 9945:1

proceeds [1] -

9899:22

process [81] -

9858:23, 9858:27,

9858:29, 9859:19,

9861:6, 9861:10,

9861:35, 9863:3,

9863:4, 9863:22,

9868:5, 9868:6,

9868:15, 9868:23,

9868:33, 9868:35,

9868:41, 9869:7,

9869:40, 9871:11,

9876:9, 9879:10,

9879:11, 9882:6,

9882:9, 9882:26,

9882:27, 9893:36,

9893:37, 9893:38,

9899:21, 9906:7,

9910:21, 9910:23,

9910:36, 9910:38,

9911:28, 9911:34,

9911:47, 9915:6,

9915:10, 9915:29,

9915:41, 9915:46,

9917:19, 9917:31,

9917:35, 9917:45,

9918:12, 9918:41,

9919:30, 9919:36,

9919:37, 9921:13,

9921:18, 9921:36,

9922:26, 9923:16,

9923:21, 9923:26,

9926:17, 9927:24,

9928:44, 9935:27,

9937:39, 9940:36,

9941:21, 9942:8,

9943:10, 9943:44,

9946:32, 9955:8,

9955:9, 9955:20,

9955:31, 9956:36,

9960:30, 9960:34

processed [1] -

9891:28

processes [9] -

9858:37, 9859:22,

9862:12, 9871:27,

9876:12, 9885:28,

9887:30, 9955:6,

9957:33

professional [6] -

9857:11, 9872:23,

9883:46, 9940:46,

9949:34, 9961:25

profile [1] - 9856:1

program [2] - 9875:30,

9960:35

programs [5] -

9857:37, 9859:14,

9859:20, 9876:29

progress [1] - 9879:7

prohibited [3] -

9859:41, 9860:25,

9860:31

prohibiting [1] -

9860:41

projector [1] - 9958:3

prolonged [1] -

9865:27

promptly [3] - 9862:5,

9865:32, 9865:33

proof [2] - 9900:47,

9926:43

proper [3] - 9890:10,

9914:4, 9948:47

properly [2] - 9937:35,

9956:1

properties [1] -

9889:33

property [4] - 9889:17,

9889:19, 9889:38,

9889:44

proposition [1] -

9892:24

propositions [1] -

9909:18

protect [1] - 9927:7

protection [23] -

.16/10/2014 (93)


19

9856:42, 9857:6,

9858:10, 9858:33,

9859:7, 9862:24,

9863:4, 9876:10,

9876:15, 9876:33,

9896:19, 9901:26,

9903:10, 9936:25,

9937:26, 9949:37,

9955:33, 9955:40,

9956:35, 9957:33,

9961:3, 9961:20,

9961:23

Protection [6] -

9862:1, 9877:7,

9877:13, 9878:3,

9932:47, 9961:10

protocol [6] - 9866:8,

9905:35, 9906:1,

9907:4, 9911:10,

9932:9

proven [2] - 9867:33,

9915:44

provide [11] - 9867:5,

9870:6, 9881:4,

9882:22, 9890:32,

9901:25, 9903:1,

9905:1, 9911:35,

9929:41, 9937:47

provided [34] -

9853:19, 9853:22,

9856:30, 9857:15,

9857:40, 9863:47,

9870:21, 9872:23,

9879:24, 9881:35,

9887:4, 9901:47,

9902:6, 9906:3,

9908:2, 9909:7,

9909:10, 9909:33,

9911:23, 9914:46,

9916:29, 9923:47,

9925:39, 9928:8,

9929:14, 9930:5,

9930:37, 9933:27,

9935:41, 9936:39,

9937:2, 9952:33,

9955:43, 9960:37

provides [1] - 9937:17

providing [3] -

9874:17, 9916:26,

9937:13

provision [2] -

9914:15, 9934:5

provisions [2] -

9913:46, 9950:8

pseudonyms [2] -

9855:5, 9855:8

Public [1] - 9852:17

public [2] - 9886:14,

9899:46

publication [1] -

9958:26

publicly [1] - 9895:11

published [1] -

9892:17

purchase [3] -

9889:17, 9889:38,

9934:4

purpose [2] - 9939:38,

9960:16

pursue [4] - 9899:3,

9900:38, 9910:46,

9932:15

pursued [2] - 9862:18,

9900:21

pursuit [1] - 9882:25

push [1] - 9957:26

pushes [1] - 9882:10

put [34] - 9853:34,

9856:46, 9874:6,

9876:28, 9883:5,

9883:27, 9893:27,

9909:12, 9909:18,

9910:5, 9910:28,

9912:4, 9925:17,

9927:42, 9929:23,

9930:41, 9931:11,

9931:13, 9931:14,

9933:16, 9933:24,

9933:34, 9933:43,

9936:35, 9940:12,

9947:40, 9949:25,

9950:30, 9956:35,

9957:12, 9958:2,

9961:10, 9961:24

puts [2] - 9918:8,

9918:9

putting [3] - 9881:39,

9933:19, 9954:29

Qqualified [1] - 9857:5

quality [1] - 9934:30

Queensland [26] -

9862:1, 9876:15,

9878:4, 9878:29,

9892:17, 9892:20,

9892:35, 9896:18,

9901:24, 9903:36,

9905:36, 9905:39,

9905:45, 9906:2,

9906:46, 9911:10,

9911:14, 9926:34,

9932:10, 9956:34,

9956:37, 9957:37,

9957:43, 9958:7,

9958:15, 9959:42

QUEENSLAND [2] -

9958:12, 9958:22

Queensland" [1] -

9959:39

question's [1] -

9934:42

questioned [1] -

9904:30

questioning [3] -

9893:4, 9908:41,

9947:16

questions [19] -

9867:47, 9874:47,

9875:6, 9880:9,

9880:16, 9881:17,

9883:40, 9883:45,

9891:9, 9898:16,

9899:43, 9904:37,

9908:45, 9923:42,

9938:2, 9938:5,

9959:10, 9959:22,

9961:34

quite [9] - 9855:13,

9880:37, 9909:3,

9909:35, 9910:25,

9935:14, 9935:31,

9941:43, 9945:40

Rradio [2] - 9891:47,

9892:4

raise [2] - 9872:28,

9937:33

raised [7] - 9883:14,

9883:17, 9884:32,

9923:42, 9925:24,

9934:10, 9939:44

raises [1] - 9906:34

ramifications [1] -

9913:30

rang [5] - 9853:38,

9853:45, 9864:40,

9864:41, 9891:34

range [1] - 9939:23

rank [1] - 9882:8

rapid [1] - 9877:29

rapport [1] - 9945:28

rare [1] - 9929:47

rather [2] - 9866:17,

9944:37

re [2] - 9917:46,

9954:23

re-applying [1] -

9917:46

re-examination [1] -

9954:23

reach [1] - 9945:4

reached [1] - 9954:31

reaches [1] - 9928:27

reaching [1] - 9923:43

read [14] - 9854:25,

9859:32, 9860:30,

9870:29, 9872:12,

9877:18, 9880:13,

9881:7, 9893:4,

9895:31, 9895:33,

9921:35, 9923:46,

9924:31

readily [2] - 9882:28,

9893:45

reading [1] - 9923:14

ready [1] - 9853:1

real [2] - 9924:47,

9925:12

realise [2] - 9884:36,

9891:26

realised [1] - 9905:26

reality [1] - 9890:14

really [16] - 9857:10,

9858:19, 9859:23,

9860:21, 9883:33,

9911:1, 9913:4,

9916:45, 9916:46,

9919:20, 9927:25,

9946:4, 9946:47,

9947:15, 9955:47,

9956:1

reason [10] - 9855:2,

9869:32, 9910:42,

9927:28, 9927:31,

9927:32, 9950:33,

9953:38, 9954:1,

9954:7

reasonable [4] -

9923:14, 9927:13,

9931:34, 9946:15

reasonably [3] -

9859:19, 9931:41,

9938:36

reasons [2] - 9899:3,

9961:15

receipt [1] - 9952:15

receive [6] - 9888:12,

9896:23, 9903:6,

9917:17, 9920:1,

9921:5

received [26] -

9856:40, 9863:31,

9870:32, 9871:44,

9872:26, 9874:8,

9874:37, 9880:6,

9880:7, 9880:25,

9880:36, 9884:31,

9887:33, 9896:18,

9905:30, 9905:32,

9906:18, 9920:39,

9921:39, 9922:42,

9924:25, 9925:19,

9925:43, 9928:15,

9933:22, 9934:34

receiving [3] -

9862:23, 9876:14,

9888:7

recently [1] - 9922:42

reception [1] - 9899:9

recipient [1] - 9890:4

recipients [1] -

9888:15

recognise [4] -

9876:41, 9898:6,

9898:10, 9916:36

recognised [4] -

9883:20, 9884:12,

9916:38, 9919:37

recollect [1] - 9934:9

recollection [12] -

9870:8, 9870:13,

9875:15, 9892:43,

9904:5, 9905:19,

9913:15, 9928:16,

9935:1, 9935:3,

9953:21, 9954:2

recommendation [6] -

9906:15, 9917:21,

9932:33, 9932:35,

9941:29, 9955:37

recommendations [1]

- 9899:1

recommended [1] -

9930:46

record [4] - 9887:16,

9905:22, 9907:13,

9940:23

recorded [4] -

9878:13, 9880:38,

9932:26, 9936:4

records [3] - 9905:1,

9905:20, 9905:26

recounts [1] - 9921:9

recovering [1] -

9854:8

recovery [1] - 9854:15

rectify [2] - 9926:21,

9942:11

redacted [2] -

9873:42, 9888:15

redirect [1] - 9853:42

redress [1] - 9890:21

refer [3] - 9855:9,

9920:40, 9951:16

reference [9] -

9860:11, 9862:12,

9891:38, 9921:21,

9924:19, 9938:15,

9949:21, 9951:15,

9959:41

references [1] -

9921:45

referred [10] - 9881:5,

9886:14, 9886:20,

9892:13, 9904:32,

9908:42, 9913:42,

9922:31, 9923:6,

.16/10/2014 (93)


20

9926:11

referring [9] -

9854:45, 9874:39,

9875:41, 9877:31,

9879:25, 9933:4,

9933:5, 9933:6,

9940:15

refers [3] - 9877:17,

9884:8, 9896:17

refining [1] - 9879:18

reflect [1] - 9883:7

reflected [1] - 9882:18

reflection [2] -

9872:29, 9900:24

refresh [2] - 9880:29,

9884:38

regard [5] - 9920:12,

9930:33, 9930:35,

9937:39, 9955:37

regarded [1] - 9954:41

regarding [6] -

9876:15, 9909:29,

9911:20, 9935:6,

9956:6, 9956:7

regards [1] - 9896:18

region [1] - 9961:32

regional [5] - 9904:12,

9904:15, 9904:17,

9951:12, 9951:13

regular [3] - 9896:43,

9896:45, 9903:6

regularly [2] -

9955:15, 9959:27

regulations [1] -

9931:13

reinstatement [1] -

9911:1

reiterate [1] - 9924:36

reiterated [1] -

9945:25

rejuvenation [1] -

9858:32

related [9] - 9855:39,

9865:5, 9873:13,

9878:29, 9883:40,

9883:45, 9930:36,

9935:7, 9936:19

relates [1] - 9908:11

relating [1] - 9877:10

relation [11] - 9875:6,

9876:9, 9880:17,

9881:16, 9886:19,

9898:17, 9898:23,

9898:34, 9898:46,

9909:19, 9952:12

relationship [3] -

9898:28, 9905:42,

9933:18

relationships [1] -

9905:45

relative [1] - 9930:38

relayed [1] - 9881:11

release [1] - 9948:28

releasing [1] - 9876:9

relevance [1] -

9883:33

relevant [1] - 9918:11

relied [1] - 9952:39

religion [2] - 9902:3,

9902:26

relying [2] - 9952:28,

9952:30

remain [2] - 9912:10,

9912:24

remained [3] -

9863:27, 9912:14,

9912:16

remember [15] -

9872:30, 9872:42,

9873:15, 9875:45,

9877:22, 9878:20,

9878:24, 9880:16,

9880:20, 9880:22,

9895:44, 9938:25,

9952:7, 9952:17,

9952:31

remind [1] - 9878:44

remit [1] - 9955:19

removal [1] - 9912:41

remove [1] - 9950:13

removed [4] -

9861:32, 9915:14,

9915:28, 9916:2

repeat [1] - 9938:45

repetitive [2] -

9947:16, 9947:21

rephrase [2] -

9868:12, 9884:19

replacement [1] -

9875:28

report [32] - 9862:24,

9865:38, 9866:14,

9895:24, 9898:23,

9898:27, 9898:34,

9899:13, 9912:12,

9917:21, 9930:7,

9930:12, 9931:23,

9932:29, 9936:20,

9938:21, 9939:13,

9939:21, 9939:35,

9939:38, 9939:41,

9940:11, 9940:42,

9940:45, 9952:7,

9952:8, 9952:12,

9952:14, 9952:21,

9952:23, 9952:26

report's [1] - 9952:35

reported [16] -

9861:47, 9862:5,

9862:42, 9863:32,

9863:35, 9864:46,

9865:31, 9866:20,

9878:16, 9892:25,

9897:4, 9932:45,

9935:5, 9940:16,

9940:35

reporting [13] -

9861:42, 9862:29,

9863:3, 9865:3,

9882:6, 9899:14,

9899:21, 9905:37,

9905:44, 9908:40,

9909:17, 9943:41,

9951:8

reports [1] - 9891:38

represent [2] - 9880:4,

9941:40

representative [1] -

9887:17

represented [2] -

9908:34, 9909:35

representing [1] -

9872:31

reputation [1] -

9922:2

request [2] - 9883:41,

9893:9

requested [1] - 9867:6

require [4] - 9861:46,

9893:34, 9899:6,

9899:13

required [5] - 9862:23,

9864:18, 9867:6,

9888:34, 9916:24

requirement [2] -

9957:36, 9958:43

requirements [2] -

9956:33, 9957:43

requiring [1] -

9899:10

Resignation [1] -

9877:6

resolved [1] - 9932:39

resolving [1] -

9873:24

resource [2] -

9864:17, 9900:36

resources [3] -

9900:17, 9900:32,

9900:33

respect [21] - 9855:19,

9857:5, 9858:15,

9866:4, 9884:11,

9884:16, 9896:41,

9903:10, 9910:23,

9910:29, 9921:37,

9932:30, 9935:20,

9938:21, 9944:37,

9947:17, 9949:35,

9954:30, 9955:33,

9955:45, 9956:35

respected [1] -

9859:28

respectful [1] -

9934:32

respond [6] - 9897:47,

9898:1, 9926:34,

9944:33, 9947:8

responded [2] -

9923:2, 9924:14

responding [2] -

9874:1, 9874:29

responds [1] -

9922:40

response [13] -

9870:45, 9873:17,

9873:25, 9874:8,

9874:36, 9878:28,

9887:16, 9900:1,

9923:11, 9924:25,

9926:35, 9943:13,

9947:11

response) [1] -

9863:45

responses [1] -

9904:33

RESPONSES [1] -

9852:13

responsibilities [6] -

9872:39, 9875:11,

9875:46, 9879:1,

9900:10, 9933:7

responsibility [51] -

9855:23, 9863:19,

9865:40, 9866:3,

9866:7, 9869:37,

9881:42, 9883:23,

9883:26, 9883:30,

9884:4, 9884:9,

9884:13, 9886:29,

9886:36, 9886:37,

9887:9, 9887:14,

9887:21, 9888:29,

9890:36, 9891:3,

9891:30, 9903:10,

9903:13, 9912:22,

9913:34, 9913:35,

9913:39, 9913:40,

9914:21, 9914:25,

9914:26, 9915:32,

9931:11, 9931:38,

9931:47, 9936:14,

9938:28, 9938:42,

9939:1, 9939:5,

9940:40, 9946:28,

9946:33, 9948:6,

9948:7, 9948:39,

9955:11, 9955:12

responsible [18] -

9856:34, 9865:47,

9876:28, 9881:40,

9882:11, 9889:9,

9889:30, 9900:27,

9940:8, 9940:43,

9946:10, 9946:12,

9946:25, 9946:26,

9946:29, 9946:44,

9948:26, 9948:36

responsible" [1] -

9948:31

responsive [2] -

9888:42, 9938:39

restored [1] - 9868:31

result [10] - 9873:4,

9874:36, 9910:42,

9911:34, 9911:36,

9911:45, 9917:24,

9917:32, 9935:35,

9959:25

resume [2] - 9853:2,

9907:47

retire [1] - 9897:20

retired [2] - 9882:33,

9939:33

returned [3] - 9907:26,

9917:39, 9917:41

review [24] - 9858:37,

9876:23, 9876:24,

9876:33, 9876:47,

9879:40, 9882:29,

9932:29, 9936:9,

9936:25, 9937:32,

9937:34, 9955:6,

9955:7, 9955:14,

9955:18, 9955:27,

9955:30, 9955:39,

9956:6, 9956:11,

9959:22, 9959:27,

9960:30

reviewed [7] - 9858:4,

9875:29, 9879:10,

9879:14, 9955:15,

9955:25, 9959:24

reviewing [4] -

9854:13, 9858:39,

9876:11, 9955:25

Reviews [2] - 9959:5,

9960:35

reviews [2] - 9937:39,

9961:13

revision [3] - 9875:28,

9879:10, 9896:35

rhetorical [1] -

9922:17

riding [1] - 9933:46

rightful [1] - 9872:39

rightly [1] - 9948:40

Ringtail [4] - 9859:31,

9928:32, 9940:13,

9951:4

.16/10/2014 (93)


21

risk [1] - 9906:35

Robert [1] - 9852:35

role [11] - 9864:3,

9887:38, 9898:18,

9902:23, 9902:45,

9907:28, 9917:40,

9949:31, 9950:3,

9955:47, 9956:4

roll [1] - 9880:28

rosters [1] - 9855:47

ROYAL [1] - 9852:12

Royal [15] - 9853:15,

9853:19, 9853:23,

9865:46, 9897:26,

9898:46, 9899:1,

9899:26, 9901:44,

9901:47, 9902:6,

9908:2, 9939:31,

9950:26, 9951:47

rules [1] - 9948:16

rumours [1] - 9860:47

run [2] - 9878:41,

9900:8

running [1] - 9858:18

SSabrina [1] - 9959:5

safe [1] - 9960:11

Sandra [1] - 9872:9

Satan [1] - 9860:9

satisfied [1] - 9955:9

saw [11] - 9867:29,

9881:34, 9900:20,

9941:28, 9945:39,

9945:42, 9946:4,

9946:19, 9946:21,

9946:24, 9946:25

scan [1] - 9876:43

scanned [1] - 9870:30

scenario [2] -

9933:34, 9937:31

school [4] - 9857:7,

9857:9, 9897:9,

9897:10

Scott [3] - 9901:25,

9959:5, 9961:16

screen [11] - 9853:31,

9870:26, 9876:41,

9878:43, 9879:26,

9884:36, 9891:23,

9898:4, 9903:34,

9919:42, 9940:13

scroll [10] - 9859:31,

9893:8, 9895:28,

9896:17, 9920:6,

9920:44, 9921:23,

9921:44, 9922:7,

9925:35

search [1] - 9905:19

second [5] - 9873:39,

9883:45, 9889:16,

9896:16, 9958:42

secretary [2] - 9896:6,

9896:8

see [80] - 9855:37,

9858:42, 9859:32,

9859:36, 9859:41,

9860:14, 9860:36,

9861:2, 9861:37,

9867:29, 9870:42,

9871:15, 9871:20,

9871:31, 9871:40,

9872:2, 9872:45,

9872:47, 9873:41,

9877:4, 9877:7,

9877:14, 9877:19,

9877:42, 9878:13,

9883:33, 9885:2,

9885:3, 9885:9,

9885:10, 9885:22,

9885:32, 9887:47,

9891:3, 9896:19,

9898:5, 9908:4,

9909:24, 9920:7,

9920:32, 9921:1,

9921:24, 9921:32,

9921:33, 9921:44,

9922:4, 9922:5,

9922:13, 9922:14,

9922:22, 9922:46,

9923:36, 9923:46,

9924:19, 9924:28,

9925:32, 9925:35,

9925:46, 9925:47,

9926:46, 9927:10,

9928:18, 9928:20,

9928:41, 9930:23,

9931:28, 9937:7,

9937:10, 9937:11,

9940:14, 9940:15,

9940:17, 9941:22,

9943:31, 9945:10,

9946:33, 9948:2,

9949:3, 9953:40,

9960:47

seeing [4] - 9875:45,

9893:34, 9933:27,

9943:36

seek [1] - 9900:40

seeking [4] - 9890:8,

9890:21, 9926:12,

9956:37

seem [8] - 9859:21,

9863:15, 9871:4,

9922:10, 9937:24,

9940:20, 9954:15,

9961:8

seeming [1] - 9874:1

segment [1] - 9959:5

sell [1] - 9889:33

seminars [7] - 9931:9,

9956:46, 9957:1,

9959:6, 9960:34,

9960:43, 9961:32

send [1] - 9927:47

sends [1] - 9918:12

senior [19] - 9861:27,

9861:35, 9862:41,

9863:10, 9867:43,

9875:33, 9878:34,

9879:41, 9882:47,

9886:9, 9899:13,

9899:18, 9918:15,

9918:16, 9919:16,

9930:35, 9934:3,

9936:2, 9936:30

Senior [2] - 9930:17,

9939:39

sense [10] - 9854:23,

9856:45, 9857:11,

9859:20, 9864:25,

9882:47, 9925:41,

9930:36, 9946:33,

9956:16

sensible [1] - 9941:14

sensitively [2] -

9942:35, 9943:12

sent [28] - 9854:15,

9870:24, 9870:28,

9873:43, 9880:20,

9888:20, 9898:6,

9898:13, 9898:14,

9919:43, 9920:13,

9922:36, 9923:9,

9923:40, 9924:41,

9925:13, 9928:21,

9929:19, 9942:29,

9943:35, 9953:25,

9953:26, 9953:28,

9953:40, 9954:37,

9960:16, 9960:18

sentence [2] -

9940:16, 9953:12

sentenced [4] -

9869:20, 9869:26,

9880:39, 9917:5

sentencing [1] -

9871:37

sentiments [1] -

9929:33

separate [3] -

9862:34, 9889:18

separately [1] -

9891:7

separation [1] -

9916:44

September [6] -

9898:23, 9902:7,

9951:3, 9951:44,

9952:7, 9952:35

sequence [1] -

9863:38

series [2] - 9861:6,

9880:8

serious [8] - 9913:6,

9913:15, 9913:20,

9915:46, 9925:12,

9930:19, 9940:41,

9959:21

seriously [2] -

9885:20, 9942:36

serve [2] - 9865:33,

9876:19

serves [2] - 9957:3,

9958:33

service [4] - 9861:32,

9872:35, 9889:34,

9917:9

serviced [1] - 9889:15

services [1] - 9890:33

Services [4] - 9862:1,

9872:21, 9873:7,

9890:45

serving [1] - 9939:34

sessions [1] - 9929:38

set [12] - 9868:16,

9870:28, 9876:32,

9882:41, 9883:40,

9883:45, 9893:39,

9907:34, 9911:47,

9917:16, 9923:15,

9950:10

sets [1] - 9948:15

setting [1] - 9867:47

settlement [2] -

9854:10, 9891:7

sexual [26] - 9860:47,

9861:12, 9861:47,

9862:24, 9862:30,

9862:42, 9865:39,

9874:30, 9892:25,

9903:28, 9903:44,

9905:37, 9906:34,

9912:42, 9913:6,

9913:12, 9913:27,

9914:20, 9918:10,

9918:45, 9929:45,

9932:46, 9933:20,

9934:13, 9934:38,

9948:37

SEXUAL [1] - 9852:13

share [1] - 9882:46

sheet [1] - 9948:5

sheeted [1] - 9948:6

shifted [1] - 9857:37

shock [4] - 9899:42,

9899:43, 9900:13,

9954:37

short [3] - 9909:12,

9927:24, 9928:31

SHORT [1] - 9884:24

short-circuit [1] -

9927:24

shortly [1] - 9853:31

show [5] - 9855:25,

9878:43, 9919:41,

9957:7, 9957:9

shown [13] - 9855:26,

9856:8, 9875:7,

9875:41, 9878:38,

9880:5, 9880:7,

9895:47, 9897:43,

9933:29, 9953:4,

9957:10, 9958:1

shuts [1] - 9860:8

side [3] - 9861:19,

9882:34, 9954:29

sighted [1] - 9895:26

sign [1] - 9948:11

signed [1] - 9957:27

significance [1] -

9865:8

significant [4] -

9871:20, 9881:1,

9909:40, 9924:42

silence [1] - 9871:13

silly [1] - 9948:24

Simeon [1] - 9852:40

similar [6] - 9867:27,

9877:45, 9946:42,

9957:40, 9960:26

similarly [4] - 9855:4,

9911:33, 9914:40,

9955:17

simple [2] - 9899:14,

9926:38

simplified [1] -

9899:23

simply [14] - 9887:38,

9889:29, 9893:23,

9895:15, 9905:6,

9907:12, 9911:41,

9913:3, 9916:40,

9917:18, 9919:18,

9919:20, 9924:43,

9961:11

sit [2] - 9892:1,

9955:22

site [1] - 9960:25

sitting [2] - 9912:21,

9955:35

situation [9] -

9892:22, 9898:17,

9900:7, 9900:9,

9900:19, 9936:20,

9941:41, 9951:42,

9952:19

situations [3] -

9900:23, 9906:20,

.16/10/2014 (93)


22

9926:40

six [6] - 9854:42,

9855:18, 9858:1,

9858:22, 9866:30,

9898:38

skeptical [1] - 9860:30

skilful [1] - 9894:4

sleepover [1] -

9909:29

slightly [4] - 9875:10,

9904:36, 9922:35,

9932:42

small [4] - 9896:37,

9947:6, 9947:35,

9947:36

softly [1] - 9855:13

solicitor [1] - 9854:14

solicitors [1] -

9962:11

someone [3] -

9881:12, 9917:37,

9918:14

sometimes [3] -

9882:7, 9893:32,

9896:35

somewhat [3] -

9882:18, 9899:4,

9946:12

somewhere [4] -

9856:32, 9916:23,

9917:40, 9935:19

son [5] - 9887:14,

9921:9, 9925:30,

9930:21, 9942:15

son-in-law [1] -

9930:21

sons [2] - 9874:13,

9921:1

soon [1] - 9916:6

sorry [28] - 9862:28,

9866:40, 9868:8,

9870:35, 9873:36,

9916:6, 9916:31,

9918:1, 9921:20,

9925:4, 9927:42,

9928:5, 9931:4,

9931:17, 9931:43,

9932:41, 9933:40,

9938:44, 9938:45,

9947:10, 9948:3,

9950:21, 9952:3,

9952:41, 9953:28,

9956:1, 9956:7,

9956:23

sort [13] - 9858:32,

9860:40, 9868:19,

9881:3, 9882:15,

9888:20, 9889:27,

9890:1, 9899:17,

9917:45, 9932:10,

9948:28, 9949:31

sorts [2] - 9869:15,

9899:44

sought [3] - 9929:38,

9941:11, 9944:8

sound [1] - 9927:32

sounds [1] - 9900:8

source [4] - 9856:44,

9909:8, 9934:26,

9934:35

sources [1] - 9961:25

South [2] - 9901:27,

9947:7

space [1] - 9962:7

spam [1] - 9922:44

speaking [1] -

9869:40

special [1] - 9882:38

specialist [1] -

9961:23

specific [15] -

9855:19, 9864:32,

9892:43, 9893:8,

9907:13, 9911:20,

9912:9, 9913:46,

9931:16, 9933:20,

9934:7, 9934:10,

9935:2, 9955:30,

9956:11

specifically [13] -

9858:36, 9859:8,

9876:16, 9880:22,

9905:45, 9909:5,

9909:27, 9930:33,

9931:1, 9936:19,

9940:11, 9955:12,

9961:30

specifics [2] -

9859:16, 9952:17

specified [1] -

9877:13

speculate [1] - 9946:4

speculation [1] -

9934:29

speculative [1] -

9947:1

spelt [2] - 9931:46,

9950:10

sphere [2] - 9864:4,

9890:35

spiritual [1] - 9864:11

spoken [3] - 9926:8,

9945:25, 9954:4

spot [1] - 9883:10

staff [9] - 9856:18,

9856:19, 9876:38,

9904:6, 9905:1,

9907:15, 9951:28,

9961:16

staffer [1] - 9900:14

stage [20] - 9868:32,

9869:36, 9870:5,

9874:21, 9883:4,

9886:47, 9887:33,

9891:3, 9902:35,

9907:22, 9910:21,

9911:17, 9911:25,

9917:5, 9919:12,

9920:35, 9926:7,

9929:23, 9934:6,

9937:8

stand [1] - 9926:37

standard [1] - 9951:43

start [8] - 9883:29,

9900:44, 9917:5,

9919:29, 9962:1,

9962:4, 9962:14,

9962:18

started [1] - 9925:38

starting [1] - 9928:26

starts [1] - 9887:21

state [120] - 9853:15,

9856:30, 9857:16,

9858:2, 9858:8,

9860:28, 9861:41,

9861:45, 9862:26,

9864:45, 9864:46,

9865:3, 9865:6,

9866:14, 9866:18,

9867:30, 9869:4,

9869:29, 9869:39,

9869:41, 9878:10,

9882:1, 9882:3,

9882:8, 9882:11,

9883:30, 9892:36,

9893:24, 9893:35,

9893:44, 9894:7,

9894:11, 9894:23,

9894:31, 9895:3,

9895:11, 9896:24,

9896:28, 9896:31,

9896:34, 9898:29,

9901:43, 9902:24,

9902:36, 9902:44,

9903:6, 9903:9,

9903:31, 9904:3,

9904:47, 9905:47,

9906:12, 9906:16,

9906:26, 9906:30,

9907:30, 9910:6,

9911:42, 9912:17,

9912:37, 9913:11,

9914:10, 9917:11,

9917:12, 9917:18,

9917:25, 9917:29,

9918:12, 9918:39,

9919:16, 9920:35,

9923:6, 9923:41,

9924:45, 9925:11,

9925:16, 9926:8,

9927:36, 9928:21,

9930:7, 9930:46,

9931:33, 9932:30,

9932:36, 9936:24,

9937:3, 9937:9,

9937:13, 9937:32,

9937:37, 9937:38,

9937:44, 9938:21,

9938:42, 9939:1,

9939:14, 9941:42,

9942:4, 9942:6,

9942:7, 9942:25,

9942:29, 9944:26,

9946:41, 9946:43,

9947:13, 9951:25,

9951:35, 9952:1,

9952:6, 9956:47,

9957:2, 9957:31,

9958:26, 9958:27,

9959:38, 9960:23,

9961:18, 9961:43

State [6] - 9903:36,

9924:11, 9924:13,

9931:24, 9958:6,

9959:7

STATE [1] - 9958:11

state-wide [1] -

9957:31

STATEMENT [3] -

9854:32, 9902:17,

9908:29

statement [30] -

9853:22, 9853:26,

9853:36, 9853:39,

9854:6, 9854:23,

9854:28, 9864:34,

9891:21, 9897:25,

9897:26, 9897:31,

9897:36, 9902:6,

9902:20, 9903:27,

9903:33, 9904:37,

9905:25, 9908:1,

9908:3, 9908:18,

9909:2, 9911:39,

9921:40, 9924:8,

9930:8, 9930:9,

9940:12, 9951:3

statements [2] -

9911:40, 9944:37

states [4] - 9882:2,

9909:25, 9957:40,

9957:42

stating [1] - 9945:42

step [5] - 9870:24,

9910:44, 9911:17,

9937:13, 9941:18

Stephen [7] - 9925:25,

9953:6, 9953:18,

9953:22, 9953:45,

9954:9, 9954:16

steps [24] - 9867:43,

9877:1, 9905:47,

9906:21, 9907:21,

9911:20, 9911:46,

9912:2, 9912:4,

9912:9, 9913:11,

9913:14, 9915:13,

9915:15, 9915:24,

9924:33, 9924:35,

9924:41, 9927:16,

9927:26, 9936:9,

9936:33, 9936:35,

9961:8

Steve [7] - 9872:12,

9872:17, 9920:9,

9920:10, 9920:13,

9920:15, 9920:18

still [12] - 9853:11,

9873:31, 9874:7,

9882:31, 9921:45,

9925:4, 9941:16,

9942:46, 9943:12,

9944:33, 9944:43,

9958:34

stop [4] - 9876:42,

9917:46, 9918:13,

9940:25

storehouse [1] -

9959:42

straightforward [2] -

9893:30, 9893:31

strongly [1] - 9936:38

structure [11] -

9872:37, 9872:38,

9881:45, 9882:21,

9893:28, 9893:30,

9893:31, 9893:32,

9949:25, 9949:27,

9949:30

structured [2] -

9882:1, 9948:21

structures [1] -

9900:25

struggling [2] -

9889:22, 9889:24

Study [7] - 9852:17,

9853:2, 9906:19,

9914:3, 9956:16,

9961:28, 9961:42

stuff [1] - 9879:9

stumbled [1] -

9854:20

sub [1] - 9876:23

sub-committee [1] -

9876:23

subject [5] - 9909:44,

9939:31, 9959:46,

9959:47, 9961:28

submission [1] -

9934:32

.16/10/2014 (93)


23

submissions [1] -

9909:44

submit [2] - 9861:15,

9888:16

submitted [3] -

9855:21, 9875:37,

9918:20

subsequent [2] -

9945:27, 9952:16

subsequently [3] -

9913:4, 9913:5,

9925:19

substance [1] -

9923:47

suburb [1] - 9947:6

successful [1] -

9858:38

suffered [1] - 9929:45

sufficient [1] -

9890:32

sufficiently [1] -

9955:10

suggest [5] - 9892:10,

9893:44, 9894:34,

9926:33, 9945:39

suggested [2] -

9925:13, 9929:25

suggesting [5] -

9870:20, 9892:5,

9945:42, 9961:3,

9962:1

suggestion [3] -

9899:17, 9899:24,

9945:40

suggestions [1] -

9899:26

suggests [1] - 9889:4

suit [7] - 9888:26,

9888:46, 9889:2,

9889:11, 9889:15,

9889:28, 9890:8

suitability [1] -

9957:45

suitable [1] - 9907:38

summarises [1] -

9895:28

summary [2] - 9937:3,

9942:5

Sunshine [33] -

9854:36, 9854:45,

9855:15, 9855:18,

9857:34, 9858:15,

9858:26, 9858:33,

9862:40, 9863:8,

9863:28, 9867:12,

9867:44, 9872:3,

9885:35, 9886:8,

9886:32, 9891:43,

9892:14, 9892:26,

9896:5, 9898:37,

9907:27, 9917:41,

9919:7, 9920:6,

9932:31, 9933:28,

9934:3, 9935:34,

9953:4, 9957:2,

9961:27

superintendant [1] -

9882:5

superintendent [10] -

9853:38, 9854:1,

9865:6, 9865:7,

9882:3, 9891:35,

9892:40, 9892:45,

9894:14, 9904:12

supervision [3] -

9876:25, 9881:35,

9955:34

support [27] -

9859:14, 9864:5,

9864:10, 9864:11,

9864:12, 9864:24,

9867:5, 9868:3,

9881:34, 9887:4,

9900:20, 9900:22,

9901:9, 9903:2,

9914:26, 9914:45,

9916:27, 9925:38,

9925:43, 9926:22,

9930:5, 9933:15,

9933:21, 9947:14,

9952:32

supported [2] -

9867:16, 9871:22

supportive [1] -

9867:40

suppose [3] -

9886:47, 9899:45,

9950:3

suppressed [2] -

9892:8, 9892:10

suppression [1] -

9869:15

surely [1] - 9893:14

surgery [2] - 9854:8,

9854:16

surprised [1] -

9953:19

surrendered [2] -

9917:28, 9917:32

surround [1] -

9863:22

suspect [2] - 9906:16,

9925:37

suspected [2] -

9934:19

Suspected [1] -

9861:1

suspend [6] -

9906:21, 9910:12,

9913:15, 9915:43,

9916:8, 9919:25

suspended [9] -

9866:31, 9868:20,

9906:8, 9907:10,

9907:30, 9910:33,

9916:3, 9926:41,

9926:43

suspending [2] -

9887:28, 9913:36

suspense [2] -

9867:34, 9901:1

suspension [4] -

9906:41, 9907:1,

9910:5, 9924:4

suspicions [4] -

9860:47, 9861:12,

9930:26, 9932:45

Swenson [19] -

9864:44, 9865:15,

9873:40, 9874:34,

9894:31, 9895:24,

9895:28, 9895:35,

9895:38, 9898:22,

9898:33, 9901:37,

9901:45, 9910:3,

9949:6, 9949:15,

9951:1, 9953:3,

9961:37

SWENSON [2] -

9901:39, 9902:17

Swenson's [2] -

9874:39, 9908:1

swing [1] - 9921:19

sworn [2] - 9853:7,

9901:39

Sydney [1] - 9852:22

syllabus [2] - 9858:19,

9858:21

system [5] - 9893:38,

9894:20, 9900:20,

9957:43, 9960:12

systems [1] - 9893:14

Ttab [5] - 9893:3,

9920:4, 9920:31,

9953:3, 9953:39

table [1] - 9962:12

tabled [1] - 9857:23

task [2] - 9877:26,

9912:35

TAYLOR [10] -

9888:39, 9897:16,

9897:18, 9897:20,

9899:30, 9950:46,

9951:1, 9952:43,

9962:22, 9962:28

Taylor [4] - 9897:14,

9950:44, 9951:1,

9962:26

teacher [2] - 9857:7,

9857:9

teachers [2] - 9897:9,

9897:10

team [4] - 9857:27,

9859:25, 9861:32,

9876:37

technology [1] -

9894:5

teenager [1] - 9946:1

telephone [2] -

9893:37, 9897:32

tender [27] - 9854:28,

9870:26, 9871:47,

9873:38, 9876:40,

9880:5, 9884:35,

9887:43, 9893:3,

9895:22, 9895:46,

9897:43, 9898:3,

9902:13, 9908:1,

9908:17, 9908:21,

9908:25, 9909:8,

9919:41, 9922:34,

9925:23, 9928:25,

9953:4, 9957:13,

9958:5, 9958:17

tendered [10] -

9875:39, 9897:25,

9908:33, 9908:35,

9909:3, 9909:11,

9909:34, 9909:36,

9959:14, 9959:16

tenor [1] - 9887:15

tension [1] - 9867:44

tenure [3] - 9856:47,

9857:34, 9875:19

term [4] - 9854:45,

9876:26, 9904:16,

9940:10

termed [1] - 9904:17

terminology [3] -

9933:36, 9933:37,

9948:3

terms [18] - 9859:27,

9864:10, 9864:27,

9900:12, 9911:4,

9916:5, 9929:14,

9931:10, 9932:8,

9935:1, 9936:15,

9937:8, 9937:46,

9946:27, 9950:10,

9955:5, 9955:46,

9956:38

texts [2] - 9929:20,

9943:35

THE [61] - 9853:1,

9855:28, 9855:35,

9875:2, 9879:47,

9883:43, 9884:2,

9884:8, 9884:16,

9884:21, 9884:26,

9891:11, 9897:14,

9899:32, 9899:36,

9901:13, 9901:17,

9901:32, 9901:35,

9902:15, 9907:40,

9907:45, 9908:7,

9908:20, 9908:27,

9909:23, 9909:38,

9909:43, 9910:2,

9935:16, 9935:25,

9938:7, 9941:34,

9944:39, 9945:22,

9947:25, 9947:30,

9948:33, 9949:6,

9950:21, 9950:30,

9950:44, 9952:45,

9954:21, 9954:25,

9956:25, 9956:29,

9957:18, 9958:9,

9958:19, 9959:16,

9959:34, 9961:36,

9961:39, 9961:47,

9962:6, 9962:17,

9962:25, 9962:30,

9962:36, 9962:38

themselves [3] -

9936:37, 9937:2,

9948:12

there'd [2] - 9905:26,

9923:15

therefore [5] -

9915:31, 9931:26,

9940:7, 9946:7,

9952:26

thinking [3] - 9860:27,

9889:16, 9953:31

thinks [1] - 9882:11

third [3] - 9870:42,

9958:47, 9960:29

thirds [1] - 9871:24

this" [1] - 9921:24

thorough [3] -

9857:12, 9941:2,

9955:10

thoughts [2] -

9884:38, 9929:33

three [10] - 9853:29,

9854:16, 9865:4,

9889:44, 9893:35,

9897:9, 9918:34,

9951:36, 9951:39

THROUGH [1] -

9958:12

throughout [7] -

9857:33, 9880:30,

9883:33, 9903:5,

9919:37, 9956:47,

9957:1

Thursday [1] -

.16/10/2014 (93)


24

9852:27

tier [1] - 9950:5

tiers [3] - 9857:25,

9865:4, 9894:22

timeframe [1] -

9938:44

timely [1] - 9906:45

timing [1] - 9873:13

title [2] - 9877:5,

9902:24

TO [2] - 9852:13,

9962:39

today [16] - 9875:32,

9891:20, 9891:34,

9897:26, 9903:16,

9904:9, 9905:25,

9912:34, 9919:45,

9936:45, 9939:9,

9939:20, 9948:44,

9949:16, 9949:19,

9960:25

together [4] - 9856:46,

9876:29, 9908:14,

9961:25

toll [1] - 9921:14

Tom [2] - 9872:2,

9887:47

tomorrow [4] -

9961:44, 9961:45,

9962:22, 9962:32

took [14] - 9854:36,

9856:13, 9865:19,

9866:7, 9872:26,

9874:35, 9875:46,

9876:21, 9877:24,

9879:1, 9916:8,

9928:39, 9957:4,

9959:37

top [3] - 9881:40,

9898:5, 9950:5

topic [1] - 9909:9

topics [1] - 9896:25

torment [1] - 9922:20

totally [3] - 9892:29,

9946:24

touch [3] - 9880:29,

9910:22, 9950:27

toward [1] - 9935:6

towards [4] - 9891:4,

9914:22, 9916:37

Tower [1] - 9852:21

town [2] - 9947:6,

9947:36

trading [1] - 9889:45

training [16] -

9856:27, 9856:47,

9857:8, 9858:14,

9858:19, 9858:32,

9858:33, 9859:4,

9875:26, 9896:41,

9900:17, 9901:25,

9931:9, 9949:41,

9957:32

transcript [2] -

9870:38, 9938:15

travel [3] - 9874:39,

9903:5, 9942:3

travelled [1] - 9961:17

treated [1] - 9944:44

trial [3] - 9866:43,

9916:3, 9942:7

tried [1] - 9941:3

trouble [2] - 9962:25,

9962:28

true [6] - 9853:26,

9854:12, 9868:1,

9902:10, 9924:35,

9932:12

try [4] - 9860:5,

9899:5, 9899:46,

9922:1

trying [10] - 9863:14,

9887:24, 9887:35,

9889:30, 9890:1,

9890:6, 9890:25,

9901:1, 9946:8,

9949:46

turmoil [1] - 9867:38

turned [1] - 9941:24

two [31] - 9853:29,

9854:16, 9856:14,

9856:15, 9857:3,

9857:25, 9871:24,

9879:41, 9888:3,

9888:7, 9893:35,

9895:28, 9900:46,

9912:19, 9917:46,

9918:9, 9922:7,

9932:7, 9935:7,

9937:1, 9938:2,

9951:36, 9957:2,

9957:13, 9958:16,

9959:37, 9961:31,

9961:41, 9962:7

two-thirds [1] -

9871:24

type [3] - 9867:47,

9883:21, 9884:34

typed [1] - 9896:1

Uultimately [3] -

9899:11, 9910:37,

9912:19

umbrella [3] -

9900:31, 9948:25,

9948:41

unable [1] - 9931:26

unaware [1] - 9944:43

uncared [1] - 9949:3

uncertainty [1] -

9899:45

unconscionable [1] -

9926:38

under [24] - 9861:1,

9865:38, 9870:16,

9876:25, 9877:18,

9877:43, 9877:45,

9879:40, 9884:43,

9897:2, 9900:31,

9909:10, 9915:6,

9915:32, 9917:41,

9918:5, 9936:16,

9939:3, 9946:11,

9948:42, 9949:20,

9955:14, 9957:27,

9959:4

understood [30] -

9856:44, 9857:46,

9863:37, 9865:5,

9865:34, 9865:37,

9868:35, 9869:36,

9870:45, 9875:24,

9875:25, 9879:36,

9883:24, 9886:18,

9886:28, 9886:41,

9886:44, 9890:35,

9894:20, 9900:23,

9909:17, 9912:43,

9923:30, 9926:3,

9934:13, 9944:29,

9949:14, 9949:30,

9950:4, 9954:10

undertaken [2] -

9869:11, 9921:36

underway [3] -

9910:29, 9915:6,

9954:10

unfair [1] - 9935:14

unfortunately [1] -

9912:24

uninformed [1] -

9899:21

united [1] - 9950:9

unless [1] - 9932:5

unlikely [1] - 9918:19

unofficial [1] - 9951:8

unsure [1] - 9878:8

untoward [2] -

9948:25, 9948:37

unusual [1] - 9936:22

Unusual [2] - 9861:1,

9861:15

unwieldy [1] - 9882:17

unwritten [3] -

9862:22, 9862:29,

9862:46

up [51] - 9853:31,

9859:25, 9859:31,

9864:23, 9865:30,

9865:42, 9866:43,

9870:25, 9874:34,

9875:46, 9876:32,

9876:41, 9879:1,

9879:41, 9882:7,

9883:37, 9891:21,

9891:22, 9893:13,

9894:34, 9895:22,

9896:1, 9898:3,

9903:34, 9908:4,

9912:23, 9919:31,

9919:42, 9920:32,

9924:9, 9924:33,

9924:36, 9924:41,

9925:23, 9927:40,

9928:36, 9929:10,

9929:35, 9943:39,

9945:1, 9945:32,

9950:26, 9953:3,

9954:12, 9957:4,

9957:12, 9957:13,

9958:2, 9958:14,

9959:36, 9961:14

up-line [1] - 9882:7

up-to-date [2] -

9919:31, 9961:14

updates [1] - 9870:6

updating [1] - 9879:17

upgrade [1] - 9875:29

upgrading [1] -

9879:17

uppermost [1] -

9874:3

upstairs [1] - 9883:5

upwards [1] - 9883:27

urgency [1] - 9906:40

urgent [2] - 9906:20,

9906:30

utmost [1] - 9914:10

Vvalidity [1] - 9923:43

values [1] - 9855:47

varied [1] - 9903:5

variety [1] - 9896:24

various [6] - 9876:28,

9895:16, 9896:46,

9936:39, 9957:42,

9959:1

veracity [3] - 9924:44,

9926:14, 9926:27

verbally [1] - 9893:37

verified [1] - 9927:34

version [1] - 9941:11

vested [1] - 9906:26

viable [1] - 9941:21

vice [3] - 9894:17,

9894:18, 9902:36

vice-president [3] -

9894:17, 9894:18,

9902:36

victim [18] - 9855:3,

9881:41, 9885:17,

9913:40, 9914:22,

9915:40, 9916:37,

9919:6, 9919:29,

9924:6, 9926:37,

9939:44, 9942:15,

9943:17, 9943:40,

9947:5, 9947:33,

9949:3

victim's [2] - 9915:40,

9916:37

victims [2] - 9914:26,

9917:1

Victoria [2] - 9856:41,

9947:7

view [10] - 9882:32,

9901:7, 9901:8,

9909:41, 9909:45,

9913:42, 9934:18,

9939:9, 9940:4,

9946:39

viewed [1] - 9860:19

vigorous [1] - 9882:25

violate [1] - 9948:46

visit [1] - 9927:25

visiting [2] - 9928:44,

9933:47

visits [1] - 9935:3

vital [1] - 9863:4

voluntary [2] -

9856:19, 9876:37

vouch [2] - 9857:31,

9891:45

WWA [3] - 9927:25,

9928:45, 9929:10

waiting [2] - 9890:15,

9917:46

wake [1] - 9955:30

walk [1] - 9948:47

wants [1] - 9962:15

WAS [1] - 9962:38

watch [1] - 9892:1

watching [2] -

9908:40, 9909:17

Watson [10] - 9925:25,

9926:3, 9928:15,

9929:25, 9953:6,

9953:18, 9953:22,

9953:45, 9954:9,

9954:16

wave [1] - 9900:45

waved [1] - 9924:46

waves [1] - 9954:37

Wayne [1] - 9928:37

.16/10/2014 (93)


25

ways [2] - 9899:37,

9936:39

website [2] - 9895:2,

9895:11

week [3] - 9865:20,

9865:26, 9866:26

weekly [1] - 9859:24

welcoming [1] -

9943:33

well-being [1] -

9946:33

Westbrook [1] -

9897:5

whereas [1] - 9899:8

whereby [3] - 9868:19,

9913:47, 9960:36

whilst [1] - 9931:10

who'd [1] - 9881:12

whole [6] - 9858:19,

9873:21, 9880:30,

9899:40, 9923:39,

9960:12

wide [2] - 9939:23,

9957:31

wide" [1] - 9959:43

wisdom [1] - 9869:16

wise [2] - 9889:7,

9889:32

wish [9] - 9853:32,

9854:6, 9856:12,

9899:27, 9902:20,

9908:1, 9927:3,

9936:36, 9962:3

wished [1] - 9910:47

wishing [1] - 9910:46

withdraw [1] -

9868:12

withdrawal [1] -

9914:15

withdrawn [3] -

9868:28, 9910:38,

9917:26

WITHDREW [2] -

9901:35, 9961:39

withheld [1] - 9866:26

witness [19] -

9884:11, 9888:39,

9915:20, 9934:25,

9934:30, 9934:34,

9934:37, 9934:39,

9934:45, 9935:20,

9944:40, 9945:18,

9945:19, 9947:11,

9947:19, 9947:23,

9957:10, 9957:14

WITNESS [4] -

9901:35, 9945:22,

9947:30, 9961:39

Witness [1] - 9874:22

witness's [1] -

9947:11

witnesses [3] -

9938:3, 9961:42,

9962:7

women [1] - 9857:3

wonder [3] - 9875:7,

9901:43, 9959:36

wondering [1] -

9866:37

word [4] - 9869:6,

9871:37, 9943:32,

9951:7

words [8] - 9860:33,

9860:35, 9863:1,

9877:37, 9877:44,

9882:7, 9916:6,

9955:20

workers [4] - 9856:28,

9857:1, 9876:37,

9876:38

works [1] - 9879:1

world [1] - 9918:21

worshipers [1] -

9882:44

worshipping [1] -

9863:24

wounded [1] -

9885:20

write [8] - 9870:5,

9870:10, 9870:15,

9870:20, 9911:28,

9911:33, 9925:2,

9929:23

writing [1] - 9953:6

written [7] - 9860:44,

9862:40, 9863:15,

9870:43, 9900:33,

9924:34, 9940:38

wrongly [1] - 9867:22

wrote [2] - 9885:5,

9887:12

Yyear [19] - 9856:6,

9858:1, 9866:21,

9875:18, 9875:19,

9875:22, 9875:28,

9902:41, 9917:39,

9917:43, 9917:46,

9918:9, 9951:44,

9951:45, 9958:30,

9961:30, 9961:31

year-to-year [1] -

9875:28

years [25] - 9855:18,

9858:22, 9862:40,

9865:34, 9874:21,

9876:1, 9879:41,

9894:9, 9894:11,

9898:38, 9898:42,

.16/10/2014 (93)


26

9898:43, 9899:23,

9900:5, 9900:46,

9912:19, 9918:34,

9921:14, 9942:46,

9943:1, 9943:2,

9943:42, 9943:43,

9949:17

yesterday [15] -

9854:44, 9858:7,

9858:11, 9867:8,

9867:15, 9875:42,

9883:32, 9904:32,

9908:9, 9908:40,

9909:12, 9909:19,

9909:36, 9928:35,

9936:41

yesterday's [1] -

9908:33

young [7] - 9867:30,

9885:18, 9896:10,

9934:4, 9945:10,

9946:37, 9957:46

yourself [7] - 9859:33,

9872:13, 9873:44,

9884:45, 9920:34,

9928:19, 9940:46

youth [11] - 9858:36,

9859:6, 9859:14,

9859:46, 9880:38,

9918:46, 9919:7,

9927:6, 9934:1,

9946:1, 9959:20

Documents

ROYAL COMMISSION INTO INSTITUTIONAL RESPONSES TO … · EXHIBIT #18.0032 STATEMENT OF CHRISTIAN PETERSON DATED 03/10/2014 MR BECKETT: Q. Pastor Peterson, I understand that you took