Revising Robert’s Rules Roberts NAP Convention... · Revising Robert’s Rules ... Motions –Chap. X ... 10 2000 Henry M. Robert, III William J. Evans Daniel H. Honemann Thomas

Revising Robert’s Rules

National Association of Parliamentarians

2009 Convention

Henry M. Robert III, PRP

Thomas J. Balch, PRP

Henry M. Robert :

“[T]he hints and criticisms that would

naturally be received would be of great value

in improving the second edition.”

Henry M. Robert:

“[I]n less than a month Mr. Griggs [the first

publisher] requested Gen‟l Robert to

immediately prepare his revision, which was

provided for in the contract. . . . Under date

of March 22, 1876 Gen‟l Robert wrote Mr.

Griggs that he would begin the revision

immediately. Three weeks later he was in

Chicago with the copy for the main part of the

revised work.”

Second Edition 1876

New Part III

Discipline

Call of the House

Rights of Ecclesiastical Tribunals

Second Edition 1876

Page-by-page Alterations

Common Errors

Table of Rules revisions

Alternation of floor between proponents &

opponents

Rule against interruption of speakers more

specific

Second Edition 1876

Page-by-page Alterations (continued)

Fuller explanations

Subsidiary motions

Questions of Privilege

Orders of the Day

Previous Question

Reconsider

Second Edition 1876


Fuller explanations

Reception of committee reports

Notice of bylaw amendments

Stating questions & announcing vote result

Rationale for greater than majority vote

Second Edition 1876


Tie vote sustains chair on appeal

Rules protecting minority < 1/3 suspension

requires majority vote

Minority reports in committee

Third Edition 1893

Amendments revised

Rescind added

Recess added

Third Edition 1893

Use of Lay on the Table to kill motion

condemned

More time to Reconsider

Clarify obtaining floor & seconding

Filling blanks order changed

Third Edition 1893

“The additions cover nearly every point

referred to me for decision in seventeen years

that was not already covered by the book.” Henry M. Robert

RETIREMENT AND REVISION

Fourth Edition (ROR) 1915

“[T]he work has been thoroughly revised and

enlarged and . . . is published under the title

of „Robert‟s Rules of Order Revised.‟ ” Henry M. Robert


Doubled space devoted to many motions:

Privileged Motions

Incidental Motions

Lay on the Table

Postpone

Commit

Amend


Doubled space devoted to many motions:

Take from the Table

Reconsider

Rescind

Voting

Amendment of constitutions, bylaws & rules of

order

Organization & meetings of societies &

conventions


Boards & Executive Committees introduced

Additional incidental motions

Simplified Previous Question

PARLIAMENTARY LAW &

PARLIAMENTARY PRACTICE

Parliamentary Practice

“a small amount of study”

Parliamentary Law 1923

599 pages (compare 325 for ROR)

Elections

Discipline

Model Bylaws

General Robert 9/17/1922

“After my death I expect my son, Prof. Henry

M. Robert, Jr., of the Naval Academy to

continue my work. He has delivered lectures

on parliamentary law and is now preparing the

index to „Parliamentary Law.‟ He is

enthusiastic about both these books, and I

expect him to revise them when, say in twenty

years, it may be advisable.”

Editions of Robert’s Rules

Editions Years Authors

1 – 4 1876 – 1915

1923 – 1937

Henry M.Robert

Henry M. Robert, Jr. – Q&A

5 – 6 1943, 1951 Isabel Robert

Sarah Corbin Robert

7 1970 Sarah Corbin Robert

Henry M. Robert, III

William J. Evans

After General Robert‟s Death

5th Edition 1943

Incorporated only changes planned by General

Robert

6th “75th Anniversary” Edition 1951

In-text changes

Expanded index

New matter inside covers

Editions of Robert’s Rules


1 – 4 1876 – 1915

1923 – 1937

Henry M. Robert

Henry M. Robert, Jr. – Q&A

5 – 6 1943, 1951 Isabel Robert

Sarah Corbin Robert

7 1970 Sarah Corbin Robert

Henry M. Robert, III

William J. Evans

7th Edition (RONR) 1970

SCR: Postpone Indefinitely as model

Brief statement explaining motion

8 Standard Descriptive Characteristics

Further Rules and Explanation

Form and Example

WJE: Drafts for other motions

ROBERT’S RULES OF ORDER

NEWLY REVISED

Seventh Edition 1970


“Almost ten years and [echoing General

Robert‟s statement about the 4th edition in

1915] perhaps more work than on all six

previous editions combined, have gone into

the preparation of Robert’s Rules of Order

Newly Revised.” Preface

General Robert PL Preface

“While engaged in writing the „Rules of Order

Revised,‟ the author was strongly impressed

with the impracticability of making a book

which would fill the needs of societies and

deliberative assemblies for rules of order, and

which at the same time would be readable and

adapted to the needs of those unfamiliar with

parliamentary law.”

ROBERT’S RULES OF ORDER

NEWLY REVISED

Seventh Edition 1970


Fundamental Concepts – Chaps. I – V

Motions -- Chaps. VI – IX

Renewal of Motions; Dilatory & Improper

Motions – Chap. X

Chaps. XI – XX – Rest of parliamentary

procedure

Tinted pages of Charts and Tables


8 1981 Henry M. Robert, III

William J. Evans


William J. Evans

Daniel H. Honemann


William J. Evans

Daniel H. Honemann

Thomas J. Balch

8th Edition 1981

Board as form of deliberative assembly

Previous Question -- dealing with “I call the

question”

Lay on the Table -- procedure to reduce

misuse

Interruption of Voting

9th Edition 1990

Quarterly Time Interval

Removal of committee members

Conflicting bylaw amendments

Principles of Interpretation

Suggestions for Inexperienced Presiding

Officers



William J. Evans


William J. Evans

Daniel H. Honemann


William J. Evans

Daniel H. Honemann

Thomas J. Balch

10th Edition Procedure of Revision

Accumulate lists of potential items to change

Submitted by parliamentarians and others

([email protected])

Proposed by authorship team members

Circulate wording proposed by team members

Debate, amend, and vote on face-to-face

Review tentatively adopted changes, possibly

reconsider; make conforming changes

Forthcoming11th Edition

Possibly at National Training Conference in

Minnesota 2010

Probably at Convention in Florida 2011

(precedent of 1981 edition)

Role of Authorship Team

interpret, clarify, and apply

not change

– make changes simply in accordance with the

policy preferences of its members, without

regard to precedent or common practice

•Common Law Court Analogy

•Not Legislature

Principles of Revision

1. Apply existing principles of parliamentary

law to newly arising questions, resulting

in more fully developed rules derived

through the technique of interpretation.

10th ed. e.g.: Electronic meetings

Principles of Revision 2

2. Take account of new practices that,

through repeated and widespread

use, have become established.

E.g. “Stand at ease”


3. Correct inconsistencies and

ambiguities.

E.g. Changes in Reconsider


4. Improve method of presentation.

E.g.: separate Request to Be Excused from a

Duty from other Requests and Inquiries


5. Correct common misunderstandings doing

widespread harm.

E.g.: Deal with “friendly amendments”

The 50 Year Debate

Robert versus “Simplification”

Greg Phifer: “Robert‟s Heirs Blew It”

“Robert is a useful reference manual for the

accomplished parliamentarian, but an almost useless

guide for the general public. …

“John Q. Member will be turned off by [its] size and

complexity... – to say nothing of its antiquated and

jargonistic language. Most organizations have no

business recommending this volume to their

members.

Greg Phifer: “Robert‟s Heirs Blew It”

“Those who produced the 1970 version of RONR had a

wonderful opportunity to bring parliamentary law into the

twentieth century and the service of contemporary

organizations. They blew it.

“Clear, contemporary language could have been used; they

elected not to do so. Unused and unnecessary motions could

have been eliminated or at least reduced to footnote status;

the bulk of motions and rules has been expanded rather than

reduced.”

Emogene Emery: “AIP‟s Response to

RONR”

“[S]omeone must pioneer and we are sorry it

was not your book since it is the most widely

adopted authority. Please bring us a future

edition that will be more acceptable to ...

those many others who would like to

understand what is going on in the average

meeting.”

The Two Sides of the

Half-Century

Simplification Controversy

The Case for Simplification

RONR too complicated

Much of content archaic/ unnecessary

Too difficult to learn

Too difficult to use

Largely shunned or ignored

People reject and abandon parliamentary procedure

The Case for Robert

Growth since 1st edition was response to actual

questions to General & successors

Problem w/ ambiguity & gaps: interpretation of

unclear rule contended for by each side is based on

desired substantive outcome

Chair imposes

Assembly gets tangled in procedural disputes in which

generally “might makes right”

The Case for Robert

Quote from preface to 1st edition: “Whether these forms be in all cases the most rational

or not is really not of so great importance. It is much

more material that there should be a rule to go by,

than what that rule is, that there may be a uniformity

of proceeding in business, not subject to the caprice of

the chairman, or captiousness of the members.”

[Robert quotes Jefferson who quotes Hatsell who

quotes ?]

CAN Robert Authorship simplify the

rules?

Legitimacy of authorship function rests on its

largely reporting rather than making law

Common law courts rather than legislative

tradition

Critical to stability

The Paradox

Failure to simplify makes rules hard to use,

“turns off” public, and may lead to rules being

ignored altogether

Simplification of rules introduces ambiguity

empowering tyrannical chairs or majority

and/or tying organizations in knots of

procedural dispute

Did publication of RONR In Brief narrow any

of these differences?

The 80% Solution

“Both/and” rather than “either/or”

Simple introductory book

Comprehensive parliamentary authority

Simple book keyed to complete work

Features of RONR In Brief

Short

176 pages text

198 pages with tables and index

Inexpensive ($6.95)

Brief reading time

Half hour for minimal

90 minutes for basics for member


Simple language attempted

“Layered” method of learning

1st, simple meeting

Simplified Standard Order of Business

Compressed handling of motions

Amendments – focus on primary only

Thereafter, essential motions, basics of elections

and rules


Examples and illustrative dialogues

Summaries and reviews

“Beyond the Basics”

Skeleton key to RONR

Frequently Asked Questions

Summary of motions


Chapters for officers, delegates

Chapters for committees, boards

Tables for Meeting Quick Reference

Much Omitted

Order of Precedence of Motions covered only in “Beyond the Basics” intro to RONR

Bylaws drafting and amendments

Postpone Indefinitely, Lay on and Take From the Table, Call for the Orders of the Day, Raise a Question of Privilege, Discharge a Committee and most incidental motions

Secondary amendments, reconsideration of secondary motions, Committee of the Whole & its iterations

Criticism

Makes possible outmaneuvering of those with

introductory knowledge by those with more

sophisticated awareness

Not a “level playing field”

Which is worse?

Some know rules better

than others

Standard Rules exist,

available to be looked

up/ studied

Vacuum in rules

Procedural wrangling

Result imposed

By chair

By stronger party in

assembly

Terminology

Only “controversial” term in basic part of In Brief

probably “Previous Question”

Question of familiarity

Few object to Adjourn, Quorum, Point of Order, Table

Terms of art common to many fields

Even sports:

Foul ball

Stealing base

First down

Terminology

WHY do we use terms of art?

Shorthand

Stealing base

“Running from one point on which the runner

cannot be touched with the ball so as to be

disqualified from advancing to score to the

next such point immediately after the pitcher

has thrown the ball.”

Previous Question

Immediately to close debate and the making

of subsidiary motions except the motion to

Lay on the Table.

CONCLUSION

In Brief assuredly has not ended controversy

among parliamentarians – but we hope it helps

make parliamentary procedure more accessible

& narrow the divide among parliamentarians

Documents

Revising Robert’s Rules Roberts NAP Convention... · Revising Robert’s Rules ... Motions –Chap. X ... 10 2000 Henry M. Robert, III William J. Evans Daniel H. Honemann Thomas