12/8/14 Quick Review on the Grayman Sub-Saharan series

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03-15-11, 20:27

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Sep 2010VA

1057 (100%)

Quick Review on the Grayman Sub-Saharan series

DesignThe Sub-Saharan series is one of the best designs to come out of Grayman knives. First, if these seem slightly familiar, likesomething you may have seen from MercWorx or even a Strider Ajax there’s good reason for this. Mike had a large role indesigning many of the knives of MercWorx and collaborated on the Ajax and Mantrack. However, unlike Mercworx there are nofine polishes or stainless steels. The handles aren’t epoxied into place and fixed with tubes (a perfectly solid method). Theblades are coated with Duracoat, all are of 1095 steel and the handles are attached via hex screws allowing one to easilyremove, modify, or replace them. Personally, I’ve become a huge fan of 1095. It’s tough, reliable, easy to sharpen and, in myopinion, better for hard use all around than a high end stainless.Starting at the sharp part, the blade design incorporates the best features of most combat/utility knives. For about the first halfof the blade (tip to hilt) the blade is essentially a wide dagger, double edged and symmetrical. From here it transitions to arecurve on the primary edge and dips into an unsharpened portion on the spine. This has two key advantages, The first beingthat with stabbing and thrusting motions you have a dagger profile, allowing crucial penetration but also a wide wound channelthis case. Second, when slashing the blade acts as a phenomenal recurved bowie, pulling material into the curve and using itsmass to great effect. The unsharpened portion on the spine is truly a product of real world use and development. First, by thetime you’ve thrust 4inches of nearly 3inch wide dagger into someone, the rest of the blade is going to follow without a hitch. Italso prevents you from forgetting it’s there at the worse time and sticking your thumb or hand on a razor edge. On the samenote, I found that it worked will for my support hand when making push cuts and allowed me to maximize its potential as asurvival blade. Carefully holding the wood in my lap, I was able to hold the spine with my left hand, the handle with my right anddraw the knife towards me to do fine work. Also, this provides a good point for batoning where you aren’t beating your baton tosplinters on the sharpened back edge.

The knives arrive with a coarse edge, allowing the micro serrations to be useful and letting the owner decide how he wants theedge finished. They don’t come shaving sharp, but they do everything asked of them and can easily have that sharpness.There are no traditional guards on this knife, but rather integral hilts. These not only prevent the hand from slipping forward

#1

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Hammer27

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12/8/14 Quick Review on the Grayman Sub-Saharan series

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(which would be even more unlikely considering the handle and Gator Grips) but also allow one to “choke up” around the choil forfine work. I’ve grown to prefer this style of guard as it is simply one less thing to break.

The handle is well designed as well. It is comfortable in multiple grips, from further back on the handle to take full advantage ofthe chopping potential, to in a reverse grip. My 7 and 10 both came with the original Gator Grip, a checkered G10 that’srelatively common. While there is nothing wrong with these, the new Gator Grip seen on the 8 is far superior. It truly melts inyour hand and provides a very comfortable grip.

Here you can see how the fingers naturally fall in the reverse grip.

The sheath is a kydex liner inserted in a cordura MOLLE compatible sheath. The blade does not snap in and out of the sheathlike many production knives but is held secured by a thumb snap. I can see this being an advantage where a tightly fittedsheath may stick and prevent a clean draw in dirty or sandy conditions. As the kydex is a rather simple affair you could easilymake your own if you prefer and insert it into the cordura or simply heat the supplied one to get a different fit. One thing Iwould like to see in the future is the use of MALICE clips rather than the standard MOLLE webbing. I find them to be more robustand secure. I simply ran the MOLLE webbing down the back, secured it, and went with the MALICE clips.

The coating on these knives is an attractive black with a slight gloss finish to it. While this isn’t best for those desiring a noglare knife, there’s no reason you can’t hit it with some dull coat or krylon. Unfortunately it also wears rather easily. Again, itseasy to provide an expedient coat of paint if you really need it. I’d like to see perhaps Parkerizing offered as it has lowreflectivity and wears well or perhaps cerakote. Nothing explicitly wrong with duracoat, but there is something better out there.But the real question is whether or not these coatings are worth it, will they wear just as easily or bit less? Cost/benefit analysisis going to have to come into play here.

The 8

The 8 falls in between the 7 and 10 on the scale of battle blades, not a full on fighter like the 10 but not of a more “standardsize” (and by that I mean the ubiquitous “7 and 12” that’s so prevalent, 7inch blade 12 inches overall). This knife is a singlebevel and before I go further I should discuss that.

Mike believes the single bevel, or chisel grind, has some important advantages and I can’t really disagree. It is easier to sharpen(not that a double bevel is especially difficult by any stretch of the imagination), maintains the full thickness for more of theblade (though this can clearly vary depending on the knife), and has some combative attributes as well. First, it makes anasymmetrical wound channel that is harder to seal and slower to heal. I found that it was also better for using as an expedientshovel. The first thing I noticed about this single bevel was that it was on the “right” side. Much has been made about theEmerson chisel grind which has the flat on the right side (looking at the spine). Some argue that this should be done in theopposite manner for a right handed person. Personally, for cutting fibrous material and other soft objects, I don’t see much of adifference. However, when working on making fuzz sticks, delimbing a branch, or other tasks in a survival/field craft situation,the Grayman single bevel (with the flat on the left side if looking at the spine) is absolutely preferred. The flat of the blade rodeon the wood and cut it effortlessly. Luckily, it was easy to see how the knife would perform if ground on the opposite side: Isimply flipped it over and used the back edge. One thing I found interesting was that the single bevel seemed to face moreresistance when penetrating. I tested this on cardboard (sorry folks, no one would volunteer to take one for the team), and feltthat the flat made full contact with the entire blade and thus created more drag. With a double bevel, only the flats are makingfull contact and thus face less drag. This is merely my impression; neither had any problem and I’m sure you’d have no problemstabbing someone’s spine through their chest but I got the feeling that the single bevel wasn’t as good as a double for stabs.Single Bevel seen from the spine

The Sub-Saharan is a phenomenal design and my favorite, period. It’s entirely capable in a combat, survival, or field craft role.Luckily, there are four sizes to choose from, the 5 for lighter tasks (something that would go well in a survival kit or on the kit ofsomeone who doesn’t want/need a large knife), to the 7 which falls in the classic fighter/utility category, all the way up to the10 and 8 which are no nonsense large blades perfectly capable of taking down a tree or severing a Jihadist’s head.http://graymanknives.com/subs.html

Let me know if there are any questions I can answer

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03-15-11, 21:09

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damn state in the nation, butno more. Thank You New

York.)420

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double edged????

#2

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jmoore

12/8/14 Quick Review on the Grayman Sub-Saharan series

www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?76615-Quick-Review-on-the-Grayman-Sub-Saharan-series 3/8

For those of us who live in states disallowing "double edged" knives - how are these classified? It appears that a significantportion is sharpened along the top of the blade. Is there a version with no edge on the top?

TIA

john

jmoore (aka - BoneDaddy)

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting by fools."Thucydides

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03-15-11, 21:54

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Jan 2010N.E. Ohio

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Excellent write up!

I've been wanting to pick up a Grayman blade for quite some time now. The Sub Saharan has got to be my favorite to date.Though I am concerned that it would fall under Ohio's ruling as a dagger/double edged and therefor be contraband.

PM sent re: ZT0300

Last edited by luvmy40; 03-15-11 at 21:56.

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luvmy40

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03-16-11, 13:02

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Hammer27 writes:

"Design: The Sub-Saharan series is one of the best designs to come out of Grayman knives. First, if these seem slightly familiar,like something you may have seen from MercWorx or even a Strider Ajax there’s good reason for this. Mike had a large role indesigning many of the knives of MercWorx and collaborated on the Ajax and Mantrack. However, unlike Mercworx there are nofine polishes or stainless steels."

Truth in fact is Mike had more than a large role, he flat out designed the Strider knives "Ajax" & "Mantrack".

Regardless of the performance and ability of the knives & it's important to those honorably serve to clarify the TRUTH.

Grayman Knives , aka Mike Bottoms (his legal name), aka Mike Everywhere, aka Mike Ajax was outed as a FRAUD after he madeclaims of FAKE RSAS service. There are books available still in circulation where his claims are plainly fraudulent. I know wherethere are several copies of the books.

He was outed as a FAKE/FRAUD by real deal RSAS/Selous Scouts like David Scott Donelan who know any and all Americans thatserved with them during the Rhodesian conflicts. It was two Americans BTW. I'm a Combat Tracker certified & vetted by Davidas well & continue to work w/ David on various projects.

1) http://selousscouts.tripod.com/David...tt-Donelan.htm

BTW, He claims to have killed a Baboon w/ a knife as part of the RSAS selection process & have 11 confirmed kills w/ a blade.

Pure BS.

Talk about driving Kool Aid stock up !

He was part of Strider Knives FRAUD from the beginning.Which you can find here:

2) http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies366.htm

3) http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies313.htm

4) http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies365.htm

While the knives may perform and work well I wanted to give others that read & are not informed the ability to make their owndecisions.

I have seen the evidence & know the people involved including the RSAS Squadron. They are upset still, as real deal Operatorsand do not appreicate the deception and fraud.

#4

Industry Professional

VooDoo6Actual

12/8/14 Quick Review on the Grayman Sub-Saharan series

www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?76615-Quick-Review-on-the-Grayman-Sub-Saharan-series 4/8

Here's another reference to RSAS w/ aka Mike Ajax (as in the CLEANER)

http://web.archive.org/web/200110040...symposium.html

While it may not matter to some, being operational myself still as a contractor it matters to the men I know & circles I run in.Keep in mind it does matter to others that serve honorable and do not fabricate their operational experience.

Smoke & Mirrors matters to many people especially when your claiming to have a highly elite level of operationalexperience in order to gain TRUST & confidence etc.

If someone doesn't have the CREDS or standards then they should not be able to identify with that organization or association.Which is exactly why there are standards and CREDS.

I would not hire or TRUST a Monkey to to do brain surgery no matter how proficient he claimed he was.

BTW, I cleared this w/ M4C personnel before I posted.

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03-16-11, 19:02

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Jan 2010N.E. Ohio

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I had heard of the stink with Strider though I never dug in and researched any of it as I never felt the need for any of theproducts. I did not know that "Grayman" was in any way involved. It does not take away my appreciation of the hardwarehowever, it does mean that I will be doing some research before I send any $ their way. If this is true (it is not that I doubt youpersonally HOPLOETHOS, I just need to verify before making any decision), I will not support Grayman in any way.

Come to think of it, the Zero Tolerance project is associated with Strider isn't it? I guess I won't be getting that ZT0300 either.Bummer!

Last edited by luvmy40; 03-16-11 at 19:09.

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luvmy40

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03-16-11, 19:56

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luvmy40,

Solid copy.

If you want to go to the source I can point you to that vector easily.

PM me & I will give you the RSAS and Selous Scout's or 22nd Squadron RSAS vectors etc. or Linky here for yourself to research:

http://www.csqnsas.com/

Below Mike Bottoms aka Grayman Knives makes the "RSAS Hall of Shame"

http://www.csqnsas.com/dishonour.html

Yes, Zero Tolerance, Buck Knives got caught as well.

Of course most people want to shove it under the rug. Wonder why ?

SWAT Magazine was warned about the Strider FRAUD BTW before the article they ran went to press & had a chance to do theright thing and did not. Did nothing for the consumers BUT promote & sell their products. You getting the picture ? So much for Gun Rags.

Look into Gary Lakis another PHONY USMC 8541 as well who duped the US Govenrment aka US Taxpayer out of our money fornothing.

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=15600

Sgt. BogusMarine Sgt. with Phony Record Awarded Lucrative Pentagon Contracts.

July 7, 2004— In the wake of the 9/11 attacks, the United States Navy awarded contracts valued at some $66 millionto enhance security at its bases on the West Coast and in Hawaii. But Pentagon officials would soon come to regrettheir choice of company to receive the lucrative deal.

#6

Industry Professional

VooDoo6Actual

12/8/14 Quick Review on the Grayman Sub-Saharan series

www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?76615-Quick-Review-on-the-Grayman-Sub-Saharan-series 5/8

The contracts went to a company, Surgical Shooting Inc., run by former Marine Sgt. Gary Lakis, who cited his specialoperations combat experience from Panama to Somalia and wore a chest-full of medals. "I think it was two Silver Stars, three Purple Hearts, three Bronze Stars, two Air Medals," said Rick Sweeney, who wasLakis' former chief of operations and previously had served in the Special Forces. "He had pretty much everything youcould imagine on his chest except for the Medal of Honor."

Under the contracts, Lakis' company was to teach Marines and sailors how to track and take on terror threats.

He and his company were featured several times on San Diego's local television news broadcasts in stories aboutspecial military operations.

"You can teach a lot of people basic marksmanship skills and teach 'em how to shoot, but then to teach them to beable to do precision, surgical shooting is difficult," Lakis said in one news report.

Special Forces' Suspicions

But for all his talk, some of his own employees soon became suspicious that Lakis was a phony.

"He was my boss," said Sweeney. "We had all pretty much heard about his qualifications and I was fairly embarrassedby his performance."

ABC News has learned there is no record of combat during Lakis' 10 years of active and reserve duty: no specialoperations, no Silver Stars, no Bronze Stars, and no Purple Hearts.

A group of Marine veterans questioned the huge number of decorations Lakis wore to a Marine veterans reunionwhere he even posed for pictures with the then-Marine commandant, Gen. James Jones.

"All he was, was nothing but a dirty liar and a phony. That's all he turned out to be," said Dick Sasser, a former Marineveteran who was a member of the Marines' elite special operations unit called Force Reconaissance.

Pentagon Procedures Under Fire

When Lakis' own employees went out to set up the training facilities, it became clear to them that Lakis didn't knowwhat he was doing. When they found out his experience certificates and medals were all fabricated, they approachedthe Navy.

The Navy has since cancelled Lakis' contract, but a member of the House Select Committee on Homeland Securitysaid the case raises questions about the Pentagon's procedures.

"You wouldn't hire an employee, a single employee, without checking their resume," said Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.)."You're going to give a guy a $66 million contract and not look beyond the piece of paper he gave you that statessomething that may or may not be true?"

The Navy declined to comment on its failure to check Lakis' background or his many supposed medals. The FBI andthe Defense Department — specifically the Defense Criminal Investigative Service — have opened a criminalinvestigation into Lakis and how the contract was awarded.

"A lot of folks that I know have died for those medals and people are buried all over this world," said Sasser."Whatever happens to Lakis, he deserves everything he gets."

Lakis, who has not been criminally charged, disappeared in 2003, leaving a forwarding address in Australia. Multipleefforts to reach him for contact were unsuccessful.

http://theenterprisereport.typepad.c...hes-sorry.html

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2008/0...-check--u.html

Starbulletin.com

Saturday, July 10, 2004

Trainer for Navy under scrutinyA security firm run by a man who allegedly lied about his combat duty trained isle sailorsBy Mary Vorsinomvorsino@starbulletin.com

Pearl Harbor sailors received anti-terrorism firearms training from a company run by a self-proclaimed hero who allegedly liedabout his combat experience and decorations to secure more than $66 million in military contracts, according to a Navyspokesman and a national news report.

Surgical Shooting Inc., formerly of Pomeroy, Wash., provided about $1 million worth of firearms training to Pearl Harbor sailorsbetween 2002 and 2003, said Hawaii Navy spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Jeff Davis.

The Hawaii sailors were among scores of enlisted Navy personnel nationwide enrolled in the company's anti-terrorism courses,which were aimed at getting sailors and Marines ready for terror threats in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

An ABC News investigation aired Wednesday found that the company's owner, former Marine Sgt. Gary Lakis, had no record ofcombat during his 10 years of active and Reserve duty. Lakis told the government that he had combat experience in Panamaand Somalia which had won him Silver Stars, Purple Hearts, Bronze Stars and Air Medals.

12/8/14 Quick Review on the Grayman Sub-Saharan series

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In all the Navy awarded Lakis several contracts worth more than $66 million to provide training for sailors and Marines in Hawaii,San Diego, Seattle and Japan.

Most of the agreements, which were set to run until 2007, were suspended in 2003 after word of Lakis' fabricated military recordreached federal authorities, local and national military officials said. The FBI and Defense Department have opened criminalinvestigations into Lakis, but he has not been charged, ABC News said.

Lakis could not be reached by ABC News or for this report. The telephone number at his former business has been disconnected,and Hawaii residents who knew or worked with him say he may have left the country. His forwarding address is in Australia, ABCNews said.

"You would think that the government would be able to do a background check," said Art Ong, a firearms training contractor forthe Navy who now employs three former Surgical Shooting instructors.

Ong's company, Hawaii-based Magnum Firearms, was awarded a four-year, $7.3 million contract in October 2003 to take overanti-terrorism firearms training at Pearl Harbor.

Davis said that despite Lakis' alleged conduct, the Navy is confident that Hawaii sailors were afforded adequate training bySurgical Shooting's Hawaii-based workers.

Lakis did not teach any of the Pearl Harbor courses, Davis said.

"Training was fine. We never had any problem with the quality," Davis said. "The problems all appeared to be management sortof problems."

Al Scott, now with Magnum Firearms, said he knew Lakis well and never suspected that "this guy was a fake."

Scott was hired by Lakis in April 2002 to assemble a team of Hawaii instructors who could teach anti-terrorism courses to PearlHarbor sailors.

When Scott was in San Diego to get more information on the contracts and training, he even stayed at Lakis' home. "I wentdownstairs in his office and noticed from the floor to the ceiling, he had all sorts of certificates from being with the specialforces," Scott said. "I didn't think anything of it. ... I was totally in the dark."

By the time he left Surgical Shooting for an Iraq deployment with his Reserve unit in October 2002, Scott was already hearingrumors that Lakis' military record was being questioned. Just months later, the company went under.

Ewa Beach resident Ryan Legaspi taught with Surgical Shooting at Pearl Harbor during several months in 2002 before he wasalso deployed to Iraq. When Legaspi returned to the islands a year later, he said he was shocked to hear about his formeremployer's downfall.

"He pulled a fast one on a lot of people," Legaspi said. "I know a lot of people who are pretty angry about this guy. ... I wassaddened for the men who were working under him, who were legit individuals."

Lakis came to the islands only once while his contracts were active, Legaspi said.

"He basically spoke to all of us (the staff), as a group," Legaspi said. "That was it. He never did any training. He was never aninstructor. We had no idea what he was capable of."

Scott said that several former Surgical Shooting employees who taught at Pearl Harbor have been interviewed by federalinvestigators about their former employer. None could be reached for comment.

BTW, Mike Bottoms (aka Grayman Knives) used to teach @ Pendleton after he stole TTOS's curriculum, email name (ManTrack)created and ManTrack Knife w/ Strider etc. until the USMC found out. The re-invented himself as Grayman Knives.

Here's an add on the internet some time ago that was at Camp Pendleton, look familiar with the names & see the nexus etc...

Linky here, copy below:

http://web.archive.org/web/200110040...symposium.html __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

October 5, 2001 1400 - 1700

Base Theatre, Mainside, Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, San Diego, CA

Join the Scout/Sniper Association members for an afternoon of educational and motivational talks and stories. Some of themost storied and well known USMC Snipers in the world will be here. Once the talks secure, we will then retire to the SNCO clubnext to the main gate to socialize. All the speakers as well as many experienced Snipers will be available to meet in person tochat with and ask questions. This will also be a continued time to meet with the vendors.

Our speakers include:

Chuck Mawhinney, 103 confirmed kills in Viet Nam, author of "30 Years of Silence"

Tom "Moose" Ferran, 42 confirmed kills in Viet Nam, consultant to the movie "SNIPER"

James Gularte, 40 confirmed kills in RVN and namesake of the Honorman Trophy at 1 Mar Div S/S School

12/8/14 Quick Review on the Grayman Sub-Saharan series

www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?76615-Quick-Review-on-the-Grayman-Sub-Saharan-series 7/8

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Mike Ajax, former Rhodesian SAS, Bladed weapons and Mantracking instructor, regular guest speaker at 1 Mar Div S/SSchool

MSgt. Neil Morris USMC Ret., Legendary Scout/Sniper Instructor with modern sniping experience

1st Sgt. Bill Skiles USMC, Former NCOIC of Quantico and 1 Mar Div S/S Schools, British Royal Marines and FBI Sniper Instructor

1ST Sgt. Chris Gagliano USMC, Marine Sniper who served with STA 1/3 & STA 3/2, taught 2 MarDiv S/S School and 2 MEF SOTG

GySgt. David Devaney USMC, modern Marine Sniper who served with STA 3/3 and taught III MEF SOTG R&S

GySgt. Gary Lakis USMCR, decorated Marine and former Special Operations Command Sniper with modern combatexperience in Somalia, Bosnia and Kosovo

This is an opportunity any shooting or sniping enthusiast would not want to miss. The cost for this event is free but we do askthe you leave a small donation to help benefit the non-profit Scout/Sniper Association and its Vets. This event is open to thepublic. There will also be vendor tables available if you want to show your sniper related wares.

This event will fill up quick. If you are definitely going to be coming, please e-mail us to RSVP, we only want to make sure wehave enough seating for everyone. Keep checking this site as we will update as things are added or changed.

Current vendor list:

Surgical Shooting Inc.Shoot RiteSpecial Operations EquipmentF.C.S.A.Navy Arms Co.Sabre IndustriesStrider KnivesTactical Air SportsTactical Operations

Apparantly Gary Lakis duped the USMC Scout/Sniper Assoc. as did Duane Dwyer & Mike Bottoms or did they have a safety inside?

http://www.charityblossom.org/nonpro...kis-330887131/

you can find the whole link here for research:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...518522&page=61

SOCNET was used for vetting/FOIA/personnel records etc. as well for those that know.

Your call.

the evidence is unimpeachable & irrefutable if you catch my azimuth.

The intel is solid.

FAKE IT, till you make it...

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03-17-11, 19:54

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Sep 2010VA

1057 (100%)

I was unaware of all the fraudelent claims, I hope that I did not mislead anyone. On the Grayman knives site nothing ismentioned of Rhodesia or SAS, only Sudan and some vague reference to being former US SOF.

I will say though that the knives stand alone on their own merit and I have always had good customer service.

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Hammer27

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