PSR Breakfast With John Swinney - Report

8/13/2019 PSR Breakfast With John Swinney - Report

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PUBLIC SERVICE REFORM BREAKFAST

The importance of ICT in ensuring that Scotland prospers as anation, economically and socially.

INTRODUCTION

The Centre for Scottish Public Policy (CSPP) invited a wide range ofstakeholders to discuss the importance of ICT in ensuring that Scotlandprospers as a nation, economically and socially . The CSPP believes that

by working together and sharing ideas public reform in Scotland can beinnovative and an improvement on the current system. By sharing thesame vision of what can be achieved in this area we aim to stimulate thediscussion, pushing for a culture change that we believe must take placein order for Scotland to continue to provide the best public services forthe people. We would like to thank the Cabinet Secretary, our partners,BT, and all our guests for contributing to what was an inspiring CSPPpolicy discussion.

Speakers included:

Cabinet Secretary, John Swinney Interim Chair of CSPP, Richard Kerley Ross Martin SCDI Brendan Dick, British Telecoms John Downie, SCVO Paul Wheelhouse MSP Maureen Watts MSP


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Fiona McLeod MSP Joan McAlpine MSP Chic Brodie MSP Rob Gibson MSP

Cllr Willie Gibson Cllr Paul McLennan Cllr Stewart Bell Cllr Norman Work Cllr Brian Collins Cllr Pat Duff Cllr Graham Houston Cllr Bob Constable Luke Boddice Louise Humphrey

The discussion covered the following themes: The public vs. private sector in incorporation of ICT. The social dimension of accessing ICT Social exclusion Procurement Access to information Public sector vs. Private sector

The meeting provided guests with an opportunity to talk about ICT withinthe public and private sector. Emphasis was placed on the giant leap wehave taken in the advancement of ICT as, even 16 years ago not allcompanies had a desktop pc or even an email account; in a relativelysmall window weve travelled a huge distance. It was noted that the SNPand other colleagues are involved in the public facing delivery of publicservices but that they have to face that the commercial side has

incorporated ICT better (e.g. in Tesco they can tell you want you mightwant to buy based on what you have previously bought). There aretherefore lessons that the public sector can learn from them. This shouldbe used to better design public services in Scotland. The ScottishGovernments Digital Strategy for delivery of public services aims to usethe redesign of public services to meet the needs of individuals.

It was thought that the public sector could use the idea of intensepersonalisation to meet the individual s needs as, it could be used for

health care services, e.g. not in terms of self diagnosis but to providepeople with information on how they can access health services.
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The public sector would need to fully embed this innovative system totransform the way we do public services.

It was then questioned how we could ensure the availability of public

services, and how this could be used as an economic driver in Scotland.In the economic downturn, the Highlands and Islands have bucked theScottish trend and are doing better than the rest of the country. This wasattributed to their access to information technology as it allows localpeople to sustain their business when previously, they may have had tomove to larger urban areas to find work. It was acknowledged that,although this service could be faster, it has helped the economy, andScotland should continue to encourage the utilisation of this. Withincreasing globalisation, social media and connectivity there is an

amazing opportunity for the public sector to adapt and to be activelyinvolved with businesses that will benefit local communities. The groupagreed that this is the duty of public leaders.

Scotland needs to be inclusive of access to information technology. Although people were sceptical of the data that suggests Scotland hasthe exclusion that it does, we need to be mindful of it.

Social benefits

The opportunity to discuss this topic was welcomed and began with howthe social dimension of ICT could benefit Scotland both socially. TheScottish Government s strategy includes a clear message of socialbenefits and a social agenda and BT is building more pipes to improveconnectivity and believes that tablets will be integral in getting those whoare socially excluded from information technology online.

As higher speed Internet does link to GDP growth, it was then askedhow can we drive the economy from here? And with personalised data,how do we manage it and get more data out of it?

Pace of change

The rate of change in the private sector is much greater; why? It wasquestioned whether this was due to competition in the market or theamount of resources available and if we could learn more from publicprivate partnerships? It was thought that there is an opportunity for the

public sector to change working methods and to become more flexible,


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as it would help to improve inclusion and drive more innovation throughthe system.

Another member of the group then suggested that one of the missing

links was applications as these work right through to the individual,therefore making it possible to understand the influence that theapplication has. In order for this to work the language in thetechnological industry would need to change as peop le dont understandthe technical jargon currently used; 20MB means nothing to the averageperson, its what you do with it that counts. Currently there is a need totranslate.

The group agreed this idea and stated that digital technology needs to

be seen as a core strategy worth going for, as currently there are not alot of highly digital organisations. Charities in the third sector havelooked at families in poverty and want to know where they could accessinformation technology that would help public services to work together.It was agreed that people want to better themselves, they just need anopportunity to do this and that part of this problem is the lack of accessto information.

The personalisation agenda was then referred back to and coined theperson centred approach . In the past, people felt that this approachwas harder achieve via technology, as it was difficult to differentiatebetween one individual and the next. However, now we can do this moreeffectively. Again, the private sector was referred to as it was believedthat there is more innovation in this sector that causes the faster pace ofchange.

Others thought that when the public sector does engage with businesseson a bigger scale they could have discussions regarding the pace ofchange. It was thought this could cause staff in the public sector to lifttheir heads and be able to look to where their place is in the grandscheme of things.

Access

The issue of access to these services was then raised as, lots of peoplecommute to cities but cant get access Broadband in their home. It wasbelieved that this would soon cause a problem if new settlements were

to be built without planning permission for broadband, as it would beharder to attract people. With new developments, infrastructure is not in


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a legislative framework, and although people felt that there is willingnessin the heart of economic developers and planners to do this, it is notlegislated for. It was agreed by the group that there should becommission in the planning to solve this.

It was then raised that there could be a possibility of treating inclusion ofbroadband in a domestic setting in the same way as water. Not evenleading edge technology is needed in all areas, however investment inrural areas per head is significantly low. This was used to rebuff theearlier claim that the Highlands and Islands bucked the trend because oftechnology as, both areas use broadband for business and leisure butthey cant access it at all times.

The question was then how far can public involvement go? And wheredoes the private sector step in? Although the Scottish Government has acommitment to provide hard to reach communities with broadband, isthere room for the private sector here?

The group felt that the key would be to find people who are excludedfrom technology and who want to be included. Carnegie research showsthat if people dont want to be included they wont g et involved in publicservices via this medium. This idea of getting a hook to get peopleinvolved was accepted and the group asked if this could drive a fasterpace of change? However, it was thought it might be hard to try and findout what reason each person has for going online.

The discussion on access concluded with the remark that public servicesare in a uniquely privileged position where they can link and drivedemand through the applications that can be delivered. If we can get abalanced community we can create conditions to drive demand.

Procurement

The issue of procurement was then raised as Scotland is currently the2 nd world leader of digital procurement, with only Portugal ahead of us. Itwas thought that perhaps businesses would nt be aware of this andmany may be missing out because they dont have high broadbandspeed. It was agreed that this should be publicised more.

The group then asked if public services and technology are being

integrating because it is easier for the public sector or for the user? Or isit because it is cheaper? It needs to be decided whom it is for, as


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currently it doesnt seem to be for the benefit of the user. The provisionof the enablers is important, as is how people use the technology. TheData Protection Act appears to be used as an excuse, on occasion, fornot thinking of new ways to communicate and share information.

It was then asked if agriculture could benefit from procurement? Therecould be many practical uses for it in this area and it was seen asanother way that a rural community could benefit economically.

Technology to e n h a n c e social exclusion

Certain dangers of this fast paced technological changed were then

addressed: some of the members of the group believed there is a lack ofsocial exchange going on and there is a subsequent danger that webecome so independently isolated that ICT becomes the only method ofcommunication. However, the majority of the group felt that the evidencedoesnt suggest this. People may communicate differently but they arestill communicating

However, the whole group agreed on the earlier idea that digitaltechnology should become a utility. This would mean it was of evengreater importance to include those currently excluded, and thesepeople are mostly spread across large geographical areas.

The 4 Rs

One guest mentioned that they came to the meeting thinking about the 3Rs : roll out, rural and reliability. They mentioned that the group haddiscussed the first 2 but they had failed to notice the 3 rd. Reliability is anissue in rural areas and people can loose connectivity for a week andnothing is done about it. There are no reliability statistics and nocommunication of the topic to the people who are frustrated by it. It wasexplained that with fixed networks there can be peaks and troughs sothe service isnt always stable but it needs to be improved.

A fourth and final R was then mentioned re-empowering people at thelocal level. The group questioned how Scotland could empower front linestaff to drive change and it was agreed this would require a culturalchange if people are to take the next step to innovate the public sector.

This change could take place if people continue talking in and acrosssectors, as people should be given the space to drive change.


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Documents

PSR Breakfast With John Swinney - Report