ProjectUnforgivenWhoAretheUnforgiven

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Project Unforgiven: Who Are the Unforgiven?Definitions from the Background

Table of Contents:1. The Origins of the Unforgivena. How has the Primarch ' s influence shaped the Chapter , particularly after all these

years ?b. Should being the first legion mean anything ?c. Who are the Watchers in the Dark ?d. How should the Watchers in the Dark be represented ?

2. The Unforgiven and the Legiona. What is the relationship between the member chapters of the Unforgiven ?b. Who , or What , are the Consecrators ?

3. The Unforgiven and the Fallena. Who are the Fallen and what effect do they have on the Unforgiven ?b. Why do the Unforgiven pursue the Fallen ?c. How do the Unforgiven collect intelligence on the Fallen and other things ?d. Does the Dark Angels history with the Fallen give them a greater insight into

Chaos ? Are they in fact closer to falling even now ?4. The Unforgiven and the Imperium

a. What is the relationship between the Dark Angels and the Inquisition ?b. What is the relationship between the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves ?c. In what respects are the Dark Angels ( and their successors ) Codex compliant ?d. In what respects are they not Codex adherent ? How precisely do they differ and

what effect does this have on the Chapter as a whole ?5. The Unforgiven Today

a. What character traits define the Unforgiven ?b. Is there a significant Native American theme in the Unforgiven , and if so , how

should it be made manifest ?c. How many veterans do the Dark Angels have , are there more of them than in

other chapters , and if so , why ?d. What does ' Unforgiven ' mean to non -Inner Circle Dark Angels ( i.e ., DAs that

knew nothing about The Fallen and the true history of their Chapter )?6. The Unforgiven in Battle

a. Do the Unforgiven have a preferred fighting style and /or technique ?b. How should the Deathwing be represented ?c. How should the Ravenwing be represented ?d. Are the Dark Angels the shooty chapter ?e. Do the Unforgiven have access to abnormally high quantities of ancient tech ?

And if so , to what extent ?f. Do the Unforgiven have Company , Sternguard and /or Vanguard veterans ?


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The Origins of the UnforgivenHow has the Primarch's influence shaped the Chapter, particularly after allthese years?

There are several traits that have been passed on:

... Jonson was a brilliant strategist and unstoppable once decided upon a course of action... But it was Jonson's supreme ability at planning and organisation... - p7 Codex Dark Angels (4th edition)

... though of his time growing up in the forest, he(Jonson) remained silent. [i]- p7 Codex Dark Angels (4th edition)

Where Jonson was temperamental and taciturn Luther was charming and charismatic,Where Luther was rash and emotional, Jonson was a brilliant strategist and unstoppableonce decided upon a course of action p11 Codex Angels of Death

The Unforgiven have continued their Primarch's tradition of conducting particularlyeffective and well-planned campaigns p10 Codex Dark Angels (4th edition)

Dark Angels are very tenacious... - p5 Codex Dark Angels (3rd edition)

His secretive nature and his preference for keeping tight reigns over the Legion shaped theInner Circle into the conclave that we know today, which in turn shaped the Chapter and their successors over the millennia.

The varying levels of trust and lack of disclosure also speak to their reticent and secretivenature. So The Lion was taciturn and reserved even before the schism. This along with thestrategic acumen, his careful planning and his intractable nature are all traditions that have beenpassed on till today.

Should being the first legion mean anything?Possible answers:

Yes, and it should mean access to older, less common technologies. No, only for the background.

Who are the Watchers in the Dark?Miniature robed figures, one of whom regularly carries Azraels Lion Helmet.

According to Mike Lee, they are members of the xeno-Cabal mentioned in Dan Abnetts Legion.This is not officially endorsed by Games Workshop, however.


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They are powerful psykers, and it was suggested in Fallen Angels that they were watching over Caliban, that a powerful creature of Chaos was imprisoned deep within the planet, and thatCaliban "could not be saved".

How should the Watchers in the Dark be represented? Two opinions:

They should be upgrade choices for characters, granting some form of bonus to acharacter and/or squad.

They should not be represented any further on the tabletop (other than Azraels helmetbearer).

The Unforgiven and the LegionWhat is the relationship between the member chapters of the Unforgiven?

Possibilities:1. They act together as a Legion with Azrael at their head.2. They do not act as a Legion except in cases where the Fallen are involved.3. They do not act as a Legion at all. They are simply autonomous chapters that have

similar goals. [Note: this last interpretation does not enjoy much support among thecommunity. Or, frankly, in the background.]

Except regarding a general rejection of possibility 3, there is no general agreement between

those who hold to 1 and 2. Related to both is the idea that, while each chapter is clearly statedto have its own Inner Circle, these Inner Circles are either part of one over-arching Inner Circleof the Unforgiven, or perhaps elements within each Chapter Inner Circle are part of the larger Unforgiven Inner Circle. Or, perhaps, each Inner Circle is disparate, merely allied with the Inner Circles of the other chapters. Either way, the head of all these Inner Circles is stated in nouncertain terms to be Azrael, the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels. But as to whether this is a first among equals position or an actual position of definite authority, and whether anyof this authority extends beyond the Hunt for the Fallen, there is disagreement among thecommunity.

From Chaplain Lucifer: We know that they have close ties but there's no evidence beyondwishful thinking that they operate as Legion. As for project scope I think it's irrelevant if theyoperate as Legion or not. Apocalypse games allow to do that and an army built from samecodex can have units from different chapters to represent an Unforgiven strike force

Quote from Andy Hoare in White Dwarf:


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"We've also taken a more detailed look at the Successor Chapters than we have ever donebefore," adds Andy, "and how the mysterious Inner Circle has influence over not just the DarkAngels but the Chapter's successors too, giving them power that spans the galaxy, not onlywithin the confines of the Rock."

Who, or What, are the Consecrators?According to the official background, the Consecrators are a chapter unusual in that they werefounded at the bequest of the Chapter Master of another chapter, Anaziel of the Dark Angels.The Consecrators seem to bear many of the most ancient relics of the Dark Angel Legion.

There is interest among the community in expanding the background of the Consecrators. Con-fusion, Belial212, and some others are in favor of making the Consecrators something of an ad-hoc, super-elite organization of Unforgiven elements organized into strike teams for a specificpurpose. According to con-fusion, that purpose is: At the Consecrator level [a level higher thaneven the Inner Circles of the various chapters], the DA have a bond of serving the Emperor'strue will to be reborn again to lead humanity out of the darkness of the Ecclesiarchy andAdministratum... and, let us not forget, to off all the xenos and chaos-types in the way of mankind realizing its manifest destiny. The Thorians might suspect, and might be lendinghidden support by foiling attempts by the rest of the Inquisition to investigate deeper.

In other words, some would like to see the Consecrators cast as an Inner-Inner Circle dedicatedto destroying the Golden Throne, rather than an actual chapter.

The Unforgiven and the FallenWho are the Fallen and what effect do they have on the Unforgiven?

Any marine who turned against Jonson during the Heresy is considered to be Fallen, whether they have since regretted their decision or still embrace Chaos. The continued existence of these Fallen Angels has driven the Unforgiven to embark on apenitent--albeit secret--crusade. They hate and revile the Fallen but feel the burden and theshame of their brothers actions as if they were their own.

This drives the Unforgiven to continually seek their Fallen brethren. However, the Dark Angelsrarely find a trace of the Fallen, so arguably, they operate as would a normal Chapter for muchof the time - responding to distress calls and crusading against Xenos and Chaos wherever theyfind their taint.

Why do the Unforgiven pursue the Fallen?


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According to Octavulg, They aren't pursuing the Fallen for the good of the Imperium. They'repursuing them for the good of the Dark Angels. It explicitly states that The Inner Circle'soverarching concern is to find the Fallen and that In the eyes of the Inner Circle, the only waythe Dark Angels can rid themselves totally of their shame is if all the Fallen are captured andmade to repent. Both page 12 of C:DA.

The Shadowguard replies: "The Dark Angels are not the only ones obsessing about events thatoccurred 10,000 years ago. The entire Imperium is doing that in one way or the other. TheDark Angels, the forces of the Inquisition, and some of the other marine chapters obsess aboutit more than others for a variety of reasons. I think you are wrong to suggest that the DarkAngels are morally compromised hypocrites. They may seem so on a few occasions to theuninitiated who are not privy to all the facts. They are no more moral hypocrites than theinquisition which sent billions of loyal civilians and troops to the labour camps after the first war of Armageddon, or the use of Cyclonic warheads to destroy entire worlds to deny fleets of Tyranids critical biomass. It is a matter of relative importance....[the Dark Angels] are doingwhat is right as far as the survival of their chapter and honour of their Primarch is concerned."

Thus there is a debate between whether the Dark Angels are pursuing the Fallen for the rightreasons, or for selfish or at least Dark Angel-centered reasons.

"The driving force of the Chapter is the hunting of the Fallen Dark Angels who were swept intothe vortex that destroyed Caliban. Only by hunting down and capturing each and every one of the Fallen Angels will the shame of the Dark Angels be absolved in the eyes of the Emperor." -page 22 of IA: DA.

How do the Unforgiven collect intelligence on the Fallen and other things?Its somewhat unexplained by GW, beyond vague mention of the Ravenwing and Librarians, butmany of the members of the community have their own pet theories to fill in the gaps:

According to Shadey: ...there is a 3rd, secret wing in addition to the DW and RW. I call themthe Shadow Wing, basically they are the intelligence assets with the ongoing mission profile of hunting out information for the fallen, and for keeping the fallen secret

According to Degas (post 107): The Ravenwing, and there is a successor chapter devoted tothis task.

According to con-fusion: Librarians and individual Ravenwing operatives, akin to Space Wolf Lone Wolves.

According to FerociousBeast: Finding the Fallen is the sole responsibility of the Ravenwing.However, the Ravenwing is a much larger organization than it appears to outsiders. TheRavenwing marines are merely the tiny tip of an iceberg of informants, spies, and dupedInquisitors that spans the breadth of the galaxy.


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If 700 marines are asked to scour 2,000,000 worlds for news of the Fallen, we have a situationwhere each marine is responsible for approximately 2,900 worlds and locations of interest. Itcan't be the 2nd companies alone. They will need psychic support and, I believe, a galacticnetwork of spies. In my mind, the best way to obtain this network would be to tap in to the

largest and greatest network that already exists, that of the Inquisition. (FerociousBeast)

According to Chaplain Lucifer: Unknown, seems that RW go on reconnaissance missions, but Ibelieve that's only when the fallen is located on a planet. I don't see marines on bikes scouringthe galaxy in search for leads. My guess is a network of spies and/or solo DW (inducted)members. I have no evidence to back it up but seems to me more reasonable that to hunt afallen you have to know of them.. that leaves RW squads out of it... one marine is far inconspicuous than a squad and can move more in disguise. DW (as a global term, not just inrelation to 1st co. members in atonement make ideal candidates for that job.

Does the Dark Angels history with the Fallen give them a greater insightinto Chaos? Are they in fact closer to falling even now?

For the former, yes. To an extent. Their predecessors have experienced first-hand whathappens when you let Chaos seep in into the hearts and minds of mortals from the smallestcracks in their wall of faith. So they must have come up with something that can combatcorruption from the inside.

For the latter, it's possible, but unlikely. The only way the Chapter can fall to the influence of Chaos is when the entire Inner Circle falls to Chaos. It's unlikely to happen because they haveInterrogator-Chaplains amongst their ranks, not to mention that they are being watched over by

the Watchers in the Dark, a psychic race that opposes Chaos (as suggested in the novels'Descent of Angel' and 'Fallen Angels'). The Dark Angels walk a fine line between retaining their honour and losing it in their all-consuming hunt for the Fallen a self-inflicted Fall. The Unforgiven today are loyal to the Emperor and the Lion, and are unlikely to betray thosetwo, but their loyalties are much more suspect to the Imperium in its current guise.

The Unforgiven and the ImperiumWhat is the relationship between the Dark Angels and the Inquisition?

The Inquisition knows or suspects that the Dark Angels are up to something, but does notknow what yet. They are keeping their eyes on the Unforgiven. There have been suggestionsthat the Dark Angels have done away with certain Inquisitors who came to close to the truth.


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What is the relationship between the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves?Octavulg: The feud with the Space Wolves goes back to a feud between the Chapters'Primarchs. Over time, this rivalry has ranged from the relatively benign (duels between the

Chapter when they meet or work alongside each other - IA: DA, 20) to the flat-out dangerous -the Chapters have gone to war on eleven occasions, including over the valuable gem mines of the second moon of Magdelon (Codex Titanicus - page 36).

It is important to note that this question is talked about in the official B&C FAQs from the DarkAngels and Space Wolves forums. The long time consensus is that the rivalry was more of afriendly one, and that both primarchs grew to respect each other and became good friends.

From the DA Forum:

A) THE LION & THE WOLF

The Dark Angel and Space Wolf rivalry is of particular concern. At the time of the heresy andbeyond, each brother acquitted themselves well in the eyes of the Emperor. It is said that Russhad the highest tally of victories second only to Horus and Johnson. Furthermore during acombined assault on the the Crimson Fortress of Durath, Jonson stormed the citadel and killedthe tyrant while Russ was caught up at the gates. Russ had sworn to kill the tyrant for insultingthe emperor and himself, and so felt his honour stained. This ended up in a fight andsubsequent rivalry between the brothers that has been mirrored by the Chapters 'til this day.This brings out the best in the two chapters, as they strive to show their skill to their brother chapter. It can also bring out the worst at times, as reflected in our respective forums in days

passed.

From the Space Wolves forum:

Q.) Why do we disagree with the Dark Angels?

A.) Russ and the Lion fought several times, as part of a rivalry between brothers. Wolves andAngels have their own RIVALRY which honors the feelings of mutual respect andsportsmanship that existed between the two primarchs. No hate is involved. Simply respect andcompetition.

To clarify exactly what happened, however, between Lion'el Jonson and Leman Russ, TheShadow Guard helped me find what I was looking for. These are paraphrases, so no IP is beingviolated.

QUOTE (The Shadow Guard)There are three documented events of the Lion and the Wolf fighting each other.


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Round #1: On the world of Dulan, the traitor commander Durath had insulted Russ by callinghim the emperor's lap dog and Russ wanted to kill him in personal combat. He demanded thatthe DA stand down and allow the SW to attack. Jonson had reconnoitered the enemy redoubtand wasn't going to let Russ spoil his careful plans, hence the DA assaulted at dawn, easilybreaking through the defenses. Jonson slew Durath in full view of the SW on the battlements

while Russ was caught up in combat down below. So, after the victory, Russ threw the famouspunch which started the SW-DA feud and ended up with Russ being carried away!!

Round #2: After news of the Horus Heresy reached them and the DA and SW fleet started backto Terra, they came across the world of Kalidus Secundus. The orbital fortress had fallen to theenemy and was bombarding loyalists on the planet below. This Russ wanted to assault anddestroy, while Jonson wanted to proceed directly to Terra. While discussing this strategy andinterrogating Tarus, a fleeing survivor from the orbital fortress, they started arguing andfighting.... until a brother Hrothgar blew the head off Tarus revealing him to be a demon.

Round #3: As you described (SG was talking about what I described, which is what followsafter this quote -DepthCharge), after they arrived in Terra and saw that the emperor was donefor, Jonson was angry and sought out Russ... Russ was too heartbroken to fight...Jonson swunghis sword...then deflected it at the last moment..... finally when Russ awoke Jonson beggedforgiveness and made up with him. The two along with Dorn then took an oath of friendship andbrotherhood....

Round #3 REF: The Lion and the Wolf - WD UK #233, pages 20-21

There is a slightly different snippet of information in the second edition Codex Space wolves(40K2). This relates to an incident where the DA suddenly broke ranks with the SW and made a

sudden assault on the enemy, leaving the SW flank vulnerable leading to many SW casualties.Worse still the DA swept the enemy from the battlefield. After the battle Russ sought out Jonsonand battled him for a day and more until both collapsed with exhaustion. They ended upswearing vengeance on each other. According to this they then met and battled each other onmany occasions, trying to kill each other, but never succeeding despite horrendous injuries(including more than a couple more stab wounds inflicted on Russ -DepthCharge). This is statedto be the origin of the feud and while it continued, the primarchs grew to respect each other.

REF: Codex Space wolves 40K2, Page 8

Hope that helps

SG

Now, the following is what Shadow Guard was referencing in 'Round 3'...

QUOTE (DepthCharge)


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As I remember it, the final battle between Lion'el and Leman was after they had reached terraand found the emperor all but slain. Leman had insisted on detours to save critical imperialworlds, while Lion'el had insisted they make all speed to terra.

They stopped and saved a forge world (hence the 'Leman Russ' tank), among other things.

Now, Lion'el blamed Russ for the delay and the near-slaying of their father. Russ, tired of thefighting, bared his chest, and Lion'el, mad with rage, struck him through his primary heart. Hismadness subsided, however, and he stayed his hand, leaving the secondary heart intact.

Lion'el then apologized and stayed by Russ' bedside while he healed.

There you have it, the most complete (legal) explanation of the fued between Lion'el andLeman, with the story told from both sides. One of the problems with the whole Lion'el vs.Leman debate is that the stories are tainted by whomever tells them. In this case, I'd like to thinkthat SG and I have been completely objective, or as close to it as possible.

In what respects are the Dark Angels (and their successors) Codexcompliant?

Viewpoints:1. The Unforgiven are mainly Codex compliant, with the only variations occurring in the

Deathwing, Ravenwing and Inner Circle.2. The Unforgiven are predominantly Codex compliant, but have many subtle variations.

This includes the variations listed in 1, but also may include variations in the battlecompanies (such as company veterans), the leadership of each Company and items of

wargear available to squads. Some unique units may exist within the Chapter (such asBaal predators do for the BA).

3. The Unforgiven are Codex compliant in appearance only. This is really only skin deep.Variations might be shown as above, but may also manifest themselves in non-standardsquad load-outs and organisation. New vehicles or formations are likely, even outside of the first two companies.

Official background is consistent in portraying the Dark Angels as codex-compliant at least incomposition and organization within the 3rd through 10th companies, with the possibleexception that none of the brothers in those companies ride bikes or Land Speeders, all suchbeing reserved by the Ravenwing. This last point is contentious, however, since at times in therules non-Ravenwing Dark Angels have been permitted to use both.

In what respects are they not Codex adherent? How precisely do theydiffer and what effect does this have on the Chapter as a whole?

The first company fight exclusively in terminator armour, whilst the second company use bikes,attack bikes and land speeders.


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The DA's 10 companies are set up as follows: Deathwing, Ravening, 8 companies of Greenwing. Deathwing is not appreciably different from other Chapters' terminator formationsexcept that they simply refuse to break and are generally deployed en masse. Ravenwing isn'tappreciably different from other Chapters' bike formations except for some special skills suitable

for their role as as a lead element out to flush the DA's quarry. Finally, we have the Greenwing.For them we have agreed that they should appear like they follow the Codex to the casual eyeand we have largely agreed that some of the companies of Greenwing have their own veteransquads to stiffen the gun line until Deathwing arrives.

When the Space Marine Legions were broken down into smaller Chapters at the end of theHorus Heresy, the Dark Angels were one of the few Chapters that did not use the strict Codexorganisation laid down by Roboute Guilliman in the Codex Astartes. To an outsider there wouldbe little difference.

The Unforgiven TodayWhat character traits define the Unforgiven?

There are certainly a number of traits that broadly define the Unforgiven in the officialbackground. In fact, some would argue that there are too many, and that the plethora of themesthat have been attached at one point or another to the descendants of the First Legion rather muddy the waters when attempts are made to define them. Are the Dark Angels monks? Arethey knights? Are they American Indians? Are they like the Freemasons? Is there an influence

of ancient, high technology? Are they loyal? Are they traitors?

These and many other questions can be answered in different ways and with differing levels of emphasis. That said, several members of the community have rise to the challenge and offeredtheir own takes on the predominant themes in the Unforgiven chapters:

Chaplain Kilmer's summary:- Secretive- Strategically Brilliant- Unwavering in commitment- Loyal to the Emperor and the Lion- Mysterious- Awe Inspiring on the battlefield

From RayJ:Fleet-based attack strategies [extensive use of Drop Pods, Teleporting, Orbital bombardments,Thunderhawk/Stormbird Drops]


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The Shadow Guard feels that the special rules will determine the character of the chapter:Chapter specific Special Rules:1. Stubborn Determination2. Hunt for the FallenUnit specific Special Rules

3. Revered Warriors (Deathwing)4. Behind Enemy Lines (Ravenwing)Character specific special rules5. The Unforgiven Legion (Azrael)6. Deathwing Veterans

Veteran Sergeant Malyr came up with a list of six rules/areas that is quite similar ( more details )1. Tactical Stubbornness2. The Fallen3. The Inner Circle4. The Ravenwing5. Supreme Commander 6. Deathwing Inductee

From Isiah: Psychic Abilities and Immunities:We know from the Angels of Death Codex that the DW were immune to psychic powers due to

their "complete fearlessness, even in the face of horrors that would drive a normal man insane".We also know that to become inducted into the DW one must have the mental strength of mindto cope with the secrets they are being told. Currently this is not fully reflected in their currentbattlefield rules - but I'm wondering whether this aspect of their fighting psychology should bemade more of beyond the Fearless USR? I'm not talking about the DW having offensive psychic

powers, but some kind of collective defensive Deathwing (unit) psychic shield.

From FerociousBeast ( more details ):1) Fear and the Fearless2) The Immovable Object3) Spycraft and the Well-Laid Plan4) The Leadership of the Inner Circle

Of FerociousBeasts four themes, two were especially embraced by the community, enjoyingwidespread support and even prompting a few calls to stop the debate and start the rest of theproject. These two were Fear and the Fearless and The Leadership of the Inner Circle. TheShadow Guard and some others stated that Fear and the Fearless should be the major themethat is focused upon by the project.

Is there a significant Native American theme in the Unforgiven, and if so, how should it be made manifest?
http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bolterandchainsword.com%2Findex.php%3Fs%3D%26showtopic%3D210622%26view%3Dfindpost%26p%3D2531703&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFj8dehNT2-0uRHomYmjxHoDH1-lAhttp://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bolterandchainsword.com%2Findex.php%3Fs%3D%26showtopic%3D210622%26view%3Dfindpost%26p%3D2532112&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFfijLQTlf3HUHRbNfoG2gV6h-r5Ahttp://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bolterandchainsword.com%2Findex.php%3Fs%3D%26showtopic%3D210622%26view%3Dfindpost%26p%3D2531703&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFj8dehNT2-0uRHomYmjxHoDH1-lAhttp://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bolterandchainsword.com%2Findex.php%3Fs%3D%26showtopic%3D210622%26view%3Dfindpost%26p%3D2531703&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFj8dehNT2-0uRHomYmjxHoDH1-lAhttp://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bolterandchainsword.com%2Findex.php%3Fs%3D%26showtopic%3D210622%26view%3Dfindpost%26p%3D2532112&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFfijLQTlf3HUHRbNfoG2gV6h-r5Ahttp://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bolterandchainsword.com%2Findex.php%3Fs%3D%26showtopic%3D210622%26view%3Dfindpost%26p%3D2532112&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFfijLQTlf3HUHRbNfoG2gV6h-r5A


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Consensus in the thread among most who addressed the topic: Any Native American themethat might once have been intended seems to have been de-emphasized over the years. Thereis no need for the B&C community to bother with it. Publius disagreed with the consensus, butseems to be heavily outvoted.

How many veterans do the Dark Angels have, are there more of them thanin other chapters, and if so, why?

The existence of Company Veterans squads within the 3rd through 7th companies (the codexclearly states that they are not present in the 1st, 2nd, 8th, 9th, or 10th companies) indicatesthat the Unforgiven seem to have more veteran marines than other chapters, whose veteransare limited to 1st Company, Honour Guards, and Command Squads. If this is true, why?

Perhaps, according to FerociousBeast and con-fusion, there are more veterans simply becausethe veterans of the 1st Company so rarely die, being fielded exclusively in TDA. According toGillyfish, a possible note somewhere in the official background that the Deathwing suffers highattrition could belie this, however, we personally (FerociousBeast and publius) have not beenable to find any mention of this.

What does 'Unforgiven' mean to non-Inner Circle Dark Angels (i.e., DAsthat knew nothing about The Fallen and the true history of their Chapter)?

Perhaps all Dark Angels and successors of the Unforgiven know inherently (genetic memory?rumour, stories, sermons?) that the Legion fought with utmost courage and determination but atsome point failed the Emperor, but the enormity of this failure is not known to any outside theInner Circles of the Unforgiven. This could lead to a determination and stubbornness to never

fail him again, which might lead to traits specific to the DA such as their stubbornness andtenacity, and unwillingness to run from conflict. Other than that, little more is known.

The Unforgiven in BattleDo the Unforgiven have a preferred fighting style and/or technique?

On the psychological level, the Dark Angels and their Successors are all stubborn and to someextent fearless, either due to outlook or combat doctrine of circle within a circle.

On the strategic level, the Unforgiven are said to continue their Primarchs tradition of conducting particularly well-planned campaigns, with a focus on gaining comprehensiveintelligence in advance of the main assault.

On the tactical level, a favored tactic of the Dark Angels can be summed up as Harass,Envelop, Destroy (or Hammer): Ravenwing begins the battle moving ahead of the main force,


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scouting out the enemys positions. Once found, they engage to keep the enemy on the backfoot while the Greenwing elements deploy into position, either by drop pod, Rhino, or Thunderhawk. With the firebase established and the Ravenwing engaging and destroyingisolated elements outside the enemys main concentration of troops, the Deathwing teleportsinto the heart of the foe, destroying their center. With the enemy broken, all elements mop up

the survivors. (According to con-fusion, Gillyfish, FerociousBeast, and others, from the latestDark Angel Codex.)

Another view, similar to that expressed above: I think a great core battle approach for the DA isthat the RW blind and confuse the enemy in order to push them into a trap, the GW and IWkeep the enemy where the DA want them, and the DW provide the hammer blow (RW is strongenough to crack transports and push troops, but not defeat them entirely; GW is strong enoughto cordon troops that have been cracked out of their tanks, but not strong enough to deliver thekilling blow to strongly supported units; DW is tailor made to finish the job, but can be out-manuvered and outgunned at long range if the enemy isn't pinned in place). This is a uniqueand complex battle philosophy that requires the application of combined arms to harass,envelop, and crush the enemy from an unexpected direction. (con-fusion)

In the recently released Deathwatch RPG, Dark Angels receive a bonus to ballistic skill andintelligence, and also get an ability to basically shrug off wounds while in defense of a singlearea. Expanding this out to a working overall battle strategy could involve:

The tactical squad has been deployed forward and has taken hold of an objective. Resources were fine-tuned such that this tactical squad (and other units in support of it)

would last for a specific amount, drawing the enemy into a specific area at a specificpoint, most likely by making the enemy think they were about to break the DA on that

front. Reinforcements in the form of drop pods and teleporting terminators appear, flanking the

prey and closing them off from the rest of their army These new reinforcements bring down a precision strike and bolster the nearby tactical

squad and support units that have fought tooth and nail to set up the trap

Scenarios such as the one above really play into the idea that the DA have the outcome of thebattle determined completely from the beginning. (RayJ)

Seems they have a knack for well planned assaults meaning they'll use RW and DW to a greateffect. Also, they'll will not give an inch of ground, fighting to the last man. (Chaplain Lucifer)

As for leadership, there is a consensus that all recent marine codices have gotten close-combatmonsters, and the Dark Angels should have a focus on characters whose abilities affect theentire army. However recent Space Marine chapters, including others known for leadershipmore than martial prowess (i.e. Ultramarines) still have close combat monsters, so there shouldstill be characters who can stand up to the other characters in close combat.


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How should the Deathwing be represented?According to The Shadow Guard: The members of the first company of the Dark Angels arerenowned for their steely determination and fighting prowess. In addition these are the onlymembers of any space marine chapter who only do battle in tactical dreadnought armour.

Most do not think the Deathwing needs to be changed much. Some think the Deathwing shouldbe able to take 10 man squads and two heavy weapons, and should be able to combat squadthese into two five-man squads, while others point out that the Codex is quite clear that thereare 20 Deathwing squads and there is no need to expand the upper size limit on a squad. Somebelieve that the possibility of theoretically fitting 60 terminators in the Troops area of the ForceOrg chart necessitates that we limit the number of Terminators per squad to 5.

There is some interest expressed in seeing an elite unit of Deathwing terminators, perhaps as aformal 1st Company Command Squad or Honour Guard squad.

How should the Ravenwing be represented?According to The Shadow Guard: The Ravenwing are masters of fast reconnaissance andattack. Their major role is to run down clues, identify potential targets relating to the fallen andfixing the enemy while the Deathwing and the rest of the DA units move in. They are skilled atfast attack and mobile warfare and are able to operate behind enemy lines causing disruptionand fear.

The brethren of the Ravenwing are some of the best riders in the Imperium and are excellentscouts, tasked with searching for traces of the Fallen.

In battle, the Ravenwing is currently represented as a harassment force, primarily ranged inoffense, akin to Native American outriders rather than Arthurian heavy cavalry, but there iswidespread interest in adding either a Ravenwing Elites or Ravenwing Dragoons unit that wouldbe a harder-hitting force in close combat and/or ranged shootouts.

Are the Dark Angels the shooty chapter?There is much disagreement on this point. Some think that adding a slight shooting emphasiswould be in keeping with the Dark Angels stoic character and strategic aptitude, not to mentionthe wargear and rules they used to enjoy in 3rd edition. Others think that the 3rd edition stuff

was wrongly inferred from some specific rules (intractable, plasma cannons in tactical squads,etc.) These people believe the shooty rules should be removed and should not be consideredindicative of any special shooting prowess.

There is, however, some evidence in the notable battles of Dark Angels section of the Codexthat the Dark Angels use tactical doctrine to place decisive firepower on the enemy position.Whether this is indicative of a ranged prowess not present in other chapters is debatable,however.


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From The Shadow Guard:The Dark Angels have been considered by their fans and GW to some extent to be the shootychapter. This was demonstrated in previous editions by the Dark Angels having more rangedweapon options, certain Sacred Banners that boosted shooting, and the Intractable rule, not to

mention Forge World's Mortis Dreadnought. Since the 4th edition codex, however, andexacerbated by the events in 5th edition, this shooting emphasis seems to have died off somehow. Jervis's codex seems to have attempted to replace the shooting emphasis with afocus on combined arms and thus tactical flexibility. We might still decide to bring it back, buteven if so, I think it has to be a minor theme.

Do the Unforgiven have access to abnormally high quantities of ancienttech? And if so, to what extent?

The Unforgiven, or at least the Dark Angels specifically, are stated in the latest codex to haveaccess to a larger amount of ancient tech. The premier example of this being the last known

jetbike in the Imperium. There is disagreement as to how important this is, however, andwhether or not this trait should have any bearing on the battlefield/army list.

The two opposing opinions are basically:1. These 'ancient techs' should not be the defining trait for DA. It would makes sense if they

have technological relics in very limited number (like the Jetbike), but that should be it.2. Yes, there should be Mortis dreadnoughts, artificer terminator armour, auto-launchers,

digi weapons, relic blades, etc.

Do the Unforgiven have Company, Sternguard and/or Vanguard veterans?The background clearly and in no uncertain terms states that the 1st Company of eachUnforgiven chapter (at least among the 1st and 2nd Foundings) goes to battle only inTerminator armor. The question, then, is whether or not the Company Veteran squads in theBattle and Reserve Companies should be converted into Sternguard and Vanguard squads.

The current codex states clearly that Company Veterans go to battle only as Tactical Squads(and are accordingly only present in Companies 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7), making Vanguard squadsimpossible, but some elements would see this bit of fluff modified or removed altogether.

Opinions on how or if Sternguard and Vanguard veterans should appear in the codex varywidely, and little consensus currently exists. Answers basically fall into one of these categories:

1. Yes, the Dark Angel codex should feature Sternguard and Vanguard squads.2. Yes, but only to a limited extent by expanding the wargear choices open to Company

Veteran squads.3. As above, but Unforgiven versions should not be as potent as their Codex equivalents.4. No.


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A number of people have stated that Company Veterans were an aberration of the latest (4thedition) Dark Angels codex and have no place in the Dark Angels army list. The majoritydisagree with this opinion, however.

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