Thirty Nine Years:

An Education

This memoir is dedicated to:

1) My wife Anne who has supported and inspired me for 24 of these 39 years,

and

2) All my colleagues in Leeds EPT, past and present, who have supported, befriended, challenged and even tried to manage me over the last 16 years. I wish all of you well in the post-COVID 19 work situation.

Mark Pedlar,

August 2020

Thirty Nine Years: An Education

Chronology

1981-1982 PGCE at University of Leeds

1982 Teaching practice at Matthew Murray High School, Leeds

1982 -1986 Biology teacher at Allerton Grange High School (AGHS), Leeds

1986 – 1991 Class teacher at All Saints’ CE Middle School, Leeds

1991 – 1996 Year Co-ordinator at Felkirk Middle School, Wakefield

1996 - 1997 Class teacher at Roundwood Hill Special School, Wakefield

1995 – 1997 Studied Psychology with the Open University (part-time)

1997 – 1998 Temporary teaching posts, including Gledhow Primary School, Leeds

1998 – 1999 MSc Educational Psychology at Newcastle University

1999 – 2001 Educational Psychologist (EP) in South Tyneside

2001 – 2004 EP in Newcastle-upon-Tyne

2004 – 2020 EP in Leeds

Interview

Tim Hooper (TH), assistant educational psychologist, interviewed me recently. The interview is in three parts: Part 1: Teaching, Part 2: Educational Psychology, Part 3: Themes.

Part 1: Teaching

TH: Why did you decide to go into Teaching?

MP: Both my parents had been teachers. Certain teachers at high school had inspired me, including my Biology teacher. Also, I believed that teaching would be a positive contribution to society.

TH: Why did you choose Leeds for your PGCE course and how did you find the course?

MP: Leeds offered an Outdoor Pursuits course, which I was keen to take alongside the Biology and Science modules. I also wanted to be ‘up north’ and near the Lake District and Yorkshire Dales. The PGCE year was great fun and my first experience of independent living. My teaching practice at Matthew Murray High School seemed a success, thanks to a supportive head of department (who introduced me to Whitelocks[footnoteRef:1] in the snowy winter of 1982). I soon started applying for Biology teacher posts in the local area. I didn’t get the job at Foxwood School[footnoteRef:2], where I was interviewed by Bob Spooner[footnoteRef:3], but got AGHS at my fourth interview. [1: ‘The very heart of Leeds’ according to the poet John Betjeman.] [2: Foxwood School was the first comprehensive school in Leeds. After it was closed in 1996 it became East Leeds Family Learning Centre where EPs put on parenting courses. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxwood_School,_Seacroft] [3: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2006/may/19/obituaries.mainsection]

TH: What were the highlights of your teaching career?

MP: There were lots of highlights. Some of them were:

· Moving to a middle school and finding enjoyment in teaching 9 – 10 year olds.

· Teaching Primary Science and co-ordinating science in my two middle schools.

· Outdoor pursuits with middle school pupils.

· Promotion to year co-ordinator in a middle school (my only ever promotion).

· Studying Psychology part-time with the OU while teaching (supported by Wakefield MDC)

· Cycling across Leeds to and from my schools.

TH: What was it like moving to a middle school?

MP: It felt like I’d woken up in heaven when I got the job at the C of E middle school. Quickly forgetting my atheism, I joined in with the hymn singing and listened with interest to the thoughts of the friendly vicar, Father Nicholas, who spoke often at assemblies, and with whom I shared an interest in Greece. All Saint’s Middle, now All Saint’s Primary, was a small inner-city school close to the busy York Road.

TH: What did you have to teach? I thought you were a Biology teacher.

MP: I had to teach my class of 9 -10 year olds everything except for Music. The children were enthusiastic, and accepting of me, and I set about teaching English and Maths as best I could. Later I took some responsibility for Science in Key Stage 2 and developed a programme of outdoor pursuits. Continuing a habit I’d started towards the end of my time at AGHS, I used my bike to get to and from school, and kept my bike in the boiler room. Strangely for a C of E school, the Headteacher was called Miss Pagen.

TH: Tell me about your one and only promotion.

MP: Soon after I joined the middle school system I realised that these schools were an endangered species. Leeds City Council unveiled plans to convert its middle schools into primaries. I could have gone with this, but instead went for a middle management post in a Wakefield middle school.

TH: So you left the city you loved?

MP: Yes. The environment of Felkirk Middle School, on the border between Wakefield and Barnsley, was very different to inner-city All Saints’. The school served three villages in an agricultural and ex-mining area. The main drawback was the 23-mile car journey from Kirkstall, a shock after years of enjoying the 5-mile bike ride across Leeds to All Saints’, but it did throw up a strange co-incidence.

TH: What was this strange co-incidence?

MP: Well, to avoid rush-hour traffic on the M1, I used to set off very early, and arrive at school before anyone else. For some reason the Head asked me not to arrive so early. So I delayed my arrival by stopping around 7.30am in a residential street in south Wakefield, where I would read a book. I later learnt that my future in-laws lived on this same street! (Though it was a few more years before I actually met Anne).

TH: Sounds like your 10 years in middle schools were a success. What challenges did you face in your teaching career?

MP: The two main challenges were surviving my first post and teaching in a special school in 1996. Other challenges were:

· Uncertainty caused by the re-organization of middle schools. All Saints’ CE Middle School had to convert to a primary and Felkirk Middle School had to close.

· Getting run over on my bike after an NUT rally in Leeds, October 1985.

Above: At the October 1985 NUT rally, with bicycle pump.

Above: After the rally.

TH: Let’s look at those two challenges separately. What was particularly challenging about your first teaching position?

MP: I’ve thought about this a lot over the years. In a nutshell, high school teaching at that time in my life wasn’t right for me. Behaviour management was hard, and hadn’t featured much on the PGCE. I didn’t expect the job to be so hard after enjoying teaching practice at Matthew Murray. AGHS was a different experience, and I never felt I fitted in there, which made returning as an EP all the more interesting.

TH: What would have made this easier for you and is there anything you wish you had done differently?

MP: With hindsight, I might have done better training to teach younger children, such as in the middle school system (found in most of West Yorkshire in the 1980s). But then I’d not have had the experience to learn from, and not have had the amusement, 25 years later, of returning to AGHS as their EP.

TH: Have you ever wondered why you enjoyed teaching junior age children?

MP: Thinking back to my own schooling, I have the impression that I was happiest in the last years of junior school. I‘ve got vivid memories of many school trips all over the south of England and a memory of being enthusiastic about the topics we studied. Perhaps unconsciously, as a middle school teacher, I was trying to recreate what my memory told me was a happy time. Also, 9 - 10 year olds obviously liked my sense of humour.

TH: What about the special school - why was that challenging?

MP: My move to a special school was not entirely voluntary, as my middle school was closing and everyone had to find an alternative school. I’d wanted primary but didn’t find a post. There was one other factor which impacted my success, and that was that my mum died in August 1996, just a week before taking up the post. At the time I didn’t recognise my bereavement as a factor[footnoteRef:4]. So I learnt that bereavement support is important, for adults as well as for children and young people. [4: One of many instances which have made me realise “life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards” (Søren Kierkegaard).]

TH: Despite the setbacks, what do you think your strengths were as a teacher?

MP: Listening to the children, taking an interest in their lives, encouraging them and having a sense of humour. Also, my enthusiasm to devise new learning opportunities for them, inside and outside the classroom.

TH: Can you think of any examples of learning opportunities you devised and do you remember any particular children you had an impact on?

MP: Going to Meanwood Valley Urban Farm[footnoteRef:5] to collect eggs and then hatching chicks and ducklings in the classroom. The children looked after the young birds, weighing and measuring them, and drawing graphs. This was a fascinating project for the children at All Saints’. A few years later, near Felkirk, there was a historical but still functioning coke plant. A smelly but interesting place where coal was baked at 1280 °C in giant ovens. I took the children there as part of a science and history topic. I didn’t know at the time but a boy fell into the oven and was killed in 1830[footnoteRef:6]. I hope I did a risk assessment! [5: Meanwood Valley Urban Farm is under threat of closure due to the COVID 19 pandemic. Please consider supporting this valuable educational resource at https://www.mvuf.org.uk/support/] [6: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monckton_Coke_Works]

Left: Duckling on a line graph.

TH: How did the coming of the National Curriculum affect you?

MP: During my teaching career there were many changes to the school curriculum, and to how students were assessed. The biggest single change was when the National Curriculum was introduced in 1988. Many teachers of primary science, like me, supported the aim that all students aged 5 to 16 should learn science and were happy that it was to become a core subject in primary and middle schools. We were also pleased that the new science curriculum included an emphasis on investigating.

TH: Were there any drawbacks?

MP: What may have been lost with the National Curriculum was the local involvement of teachers with the development of the curriculum. Before the National Curriculum I remember meeting with other middle school science teachers at the John Taylor Teachers’ Centre in Headingley[footnoteRef:7]. With the support of the council we produced Core Intentions for Science in the Middle Years, a useful working document but with a short life expectancy as it turned out. Over time the National Curriculum has become less national than it was, as academies and free schools don’t have to follow it, and private schools never did, of course. [7: John Taylor Teachers’ Centre was in a historic building at Spring Bank, on Headingley Lane, previously the home of members of the Tetley family. See https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1255989]

TH: What other changes do you remember?

MP: The more significant changes have been to how children have had to be assessed. Some of these changes were highly controversial within the teaching profession, and continue to be. I was involved in a small way with the teaching unions’ opposition to the SATs in the 1990s.

TH: Were you ever observed by Ofsted?

MP: Sadly not. It was only set up in 1993 and then I seemed to move school just before the inspectors arrived.

TH: What single thing are you most proud of doing as a teacher?

MP: Organizing outdoor pursuits for children in my inner-city middle school. This involved 20 day walks and weekends in youth hostels, camping at Nell Bank, Ilkley, and at least one weekend at the wonderful Ingleborough Hall, all between 1986 and 1991. I am proud of having got parents, school governors and other teachers involved in these trips to the Yorkshire Dales, Pennines and North York Moors.

Above: Stoodley Pike[footnoteRef:8], above Calderdale, in June 1990, with 22 children. [8: A favourite walk in the South Pennines, the monument on Stoodley Pike is an ideal objective for children as it contains a spiral staircase in complete darkness, and has great views when you reach the balcony. We have returned many times over the last 30 years, with EPs, other colleagues, family and friends. For further information see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoodley_Pike]

TH: Did you use evaluation forms after these activities?

MP: No

.

TH: Why not? How did you know whether the activity had had an impact?

MP: Those forms hadn’t been invented in those innocent days. Besides, we could tell the children loved being out of doors, and back in school afterwards we could tell each activity was having a positive effect on their self-esteem and sense of achievement.

TH: Anything else you were proud of?

MP: Developing my skills as a primary science teacher, such as through the Children's Learning in Science Project. Supporting NUT boycotts of SATs in the 1990s.

Right: Hardraw Force, Wensleydale, with 18 children, July 1990.

TH: Tell me more about the Children’s Learning in Science Project.

MP: The Children’s Learning in Science Project (CLIS)[footnoteRef:9], based in Leeds, was about getting science teachers to use a constructivist approach in their teaching of science topics. A key part of this was to ascertain children’s existing ideas before beginning the teaching. Over 30 teachers, including me, developed and tested teaching schemes in areas like energy, particle theory, and plant nutrition. [9: https://www.stem.org.uk/elibrary/collection/3069]

Part 2: Educational Psychology

TH: What made you retrain as an educational psychologist (EP)?

MP: The trigger for retraining was an event in my personal life which made me want to learn new things and learn more about myself. I also felt I was ‘stuck’ in the teaching profession. I wanted a new career that would build on my experience as a teacher, and felt that sharing a birthday with Sigmund Freud would stand me in good stead.

TH: Did you encounter EPs as a teacher?

MP: Only a few times. When I arrived in 1986, All Saints’ CE Middle was involved in the Leeds Positive Behaviour Project. Peter Galvin, EP, had been into school to deliver training. I’ve never forgotten the project’s mantra for classteachers: “Rules, Praise, Ignore,” which I found useful. Later, at Felkirk Middle, I talked to a Wakefield EP about a boy in my class who had Asperger’s syndrome.

TH: What was it about these EPs and interactions with them that inspired you?

MP: They didn’t much, although I suppose the Wakefield EP introduced me to autism, and later answered my questions about her profession. It was more my personal life and interests that made me seek out the new career.

TH: Tell me about your year of training at Newcastle University.

MP: What a great city! It was a year of hard work and many new experiences. On the MSc course I enjoyed learning new ideas from psychology and debating issues with the other 11 trainees. I had placements with Gateshead, North Tyneside and Newcastle. My dissertation was an evaluation of a peer tutoring scheme at a high school in North Tyneside.

TH: After training, I see you worked as an EP in two local authorities in the north-east. How did you find them?

MP: South Tyneside was a small local authority with a high proportion of special schools (five). EPs, including me, did lots of IQ testing, and the scores were used to help decide whether children went to MLD or SLD special schools. It was very much a referral-based service and the principal handed us our waiting list at the start of the year. We had low key nights out at an Italian called Mario’s, in Newcastle, followed by visits to the Crown Posada[footnoteRef:10]. It was a conservative start but a friendly one. [10: The Crown Posada crops up a lot in my memories of our 6 years on Tyneside. I developed an almost obsessional interest in this famous pub near the Quayside, for historical reasons I can reassure the reader.]

TH: How was Newcastle different?

MP: Newcastle was a much bigger team of EPs, serving a more inclusive authority, which had recently closed or merged some of its specialist provision. EPs followed a consultation approach, which for me was a kind of lightbulb moment. I joined an interest group called EPs for Inclusion. Newcastle EPs went up-market for their nights out. The atmospheric Prima, for example, was set within a railway arch under the magnificent High Level Bridge across the Tyne, and was conveniently located opposite the Crown Posada. On my last night I remember stumbling into a taxi on those cobbled streets, laden with gifts. Frivolities aside, the highlight in Newcastle was the time I spent in 2002-04 with the Millennium Challenge Behaviour Project (MCBP).

TH: Tell me about the Millennium Challenge Behaviour Project.

MP: The MCBP was my first taste of multi-disciplinary work and the highlight of my work as an EP in Newcastle. The project was led very effectively by Fiona Sammut-Smith, EP, and included teachers, classroom support workers and a family support worker, as well as the two EPs. The project took referrals from schools across the city. It was outcomes focussed and a great learning experience for me.

TH: How was discovering consultation a light-bulb moment?

MP: It was a revelation to learn that EPs, according to the consultation approach, didn’t necessarily have to see children. They could work with the problem holders, the adults. Learning about solution focussed brief therapy (SFBT) took this a step further. The idea that you didn’t need to know about the problem (or very much about the problem) to help the client find solutions had a lasting impact. However, as an ex-teacher, I enjoyed going into classrooms and talking to children, and never fully embraced the consultation approach, in a pure sense.

TH: What else happened in Newcastle?

MP: As well as learning rapidly about the EP role, I was learning rapidly about our two growing children, and also exploring the new city. Important discoveries included Space Base (soft play) in Eldon Square and Pets Corner in Jesmond Dene. Thanks to a good baby-sitting circle, we were also able to find our way to the Tyneside Cinema and lively pubs like the already mentioned Crown Posada, near the Quayside, and the Free Trade on the Tyne, with its unforgettable view of the many bridges upstream. We had an allotment, where Anne did the digging while I found earthworms and creepy crawlies to amuse the children. Anne got a teaching job at one of my high schools in the west of the city.

Our years in Newcastle were interesting times politically too. There was 9/11, the build up to the invasion of Iraq and the massive anti-war demonstration in London in March 2003, which I attended. I wasn’t in a political party but attended union meetings. We took the children to Woodcraft Folk every week and enjoyed Woodcraft camps two summers running in the Lake District. I was a parent governor for a short period at our daughter’s primary school in Jesmond.

TH: Was Leeds different to your previous EP teams?

MP: Yes. Leeds was bigger, more diverse and livelier than my previous teams. The situation was unusual, when I joined, in that EPs were part of an arms-length company, Education Leeds.[footnoteRef:11] EPs were prominent in the senior management of the company, under the leadership of Chris Edwards. It seemed our time had come. [11: Education Leeds (2001- 2011) was a not-for-profit company, wholly owned by Leeds City Council. It was set up to provide services to schools following a critical Ofsted report on three local authorities. Leeds escaped the fate of Bradford, where EPs and other services, were handed over to Serco.]

TH: Who was Chris Edwards?

MP: He was the energetic chief executive of Education Leeds, and an inspiration to many. He had ideas about education and the direction schools should be going in. Chris made a habit of visiting schools and he also seemed interested in us EPs. I remember him rushing through the Blenheim Centre, in-between meetings. On these visits he would sometimes leave us a bag of doughnuts, and tell us we were brilliant people, as if to compensate for our cramped open plan areas where buckets caught rain coming through the leaky roof. I don’t know if Education Leeds achieved its objectives, but Chris Edwards certainly gave the impression that it had, and he obviously enjoyed his time in Leeds, as his blog shows.[footnoteRef:12] [12: https://interesting-times-in-leeds.blogspot.com/]

TH: You’ve been an EP for a long time. When have been the best times?

MP: Working with you Tim of course! Seriously though, the last five years have been the best, in part because I’ve enjoyed cycling around south Leeds (and visiting a few schools). My dream of being a ‘psych on a bike’ came true.

TH: You keep mentioning south Leeds. What is it about south Leeds that’s attracted you?

MP: Several reasons. In practical terms, it’s near to home and also some of the schools are close to the office (Adams Court), making it relatively easy for using the bike. South Leeds was a relatively unknown part of the city to me, so there was a feeling of exploration. This part of Leeds has had attractions outside work too. Holbeck, for example, has some unique architecture, such as the Egyptian style Temple Works and the three Italianate towers on the site of Tower Works. I never failed to admire these towers as I cycled to and from Adams Court along the canal[footnoteRef:13]. Perhaps more well-known are several good pubs and bars, including the Adelphi, Grove and Northern Monk. [13: Unfortunately, the view in my photo has been changed by developments around the left-hand tower. ]

Left: The three Italianate towers beside the Leeds-Liverpool Canal.

TH: What were the other highlights of your career as an EP in Leeds?

MP: As with teaching, there have been many highlights. Here are some of them:

· Learning all the time from my many supportive and interesting EP colleagues.

· Working with colleagues from different teams, e.g. SENIT, and from Health.

· Co-ordinating the Psychology Interest Group (PIG), 2013 – 2018.

· City-wide consultations and Kidscope, where I’ve had to think on my feet.

· Attending peer supervision (not enough times!)

· Christmas parties in 2007 and 2009 at Shabab (on Eastgate), when EPs joined colleagues from other teams in wild dancing.

· Pub nights with colleagues and friends, in the Adelphi, Whitelocks, Northern Monk, and more, and walks, such as…

Above: Return to Stoodley Pike, September 2015. Can you spot the four EPs?

TH: You haven’t mentioned any training that you delivered. Was there any training that really stands out?

MP: The best training I ever produced was for a Newcastle nursery school in 2002. The topic was Questioning. The aim was to encourage adults to ask the right kinds of questions and encourage the children to ask questions themselves. That was refreshing.

TH: What do you mean by refreshing? Sounds like the first beer on one of your pub nights! Tell me more about the training delivery and outcomes.

MP: The Questioning training was aimed at developing thinking skills for all children, and influencing teacher behaviour. Nothing to do with SEN or ‘statutory processes.’ It involved thinking about teacher behaviour and the types and functions of questions during classroom interaction. This topic was in tune with my interest in scepticism, an approach to learning and to functioning as a citizen I believe to be vital. Sadly I never repeated this training.

TH: Did you use IQ tests?

MP: Yes. Despite being told on the MSc that these assessments were unnecessary, in South Tyneside I became very familiar with the WISC (Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children). In Leeds I acquired a preference for the BAS (British Ability Scales), in part because it was on wheels. It took me a surprisingly long time to recall that the concept of IQ, and the practice of assessing IQ scores, went against my values. In recent years I used these cognitive assessments less and less. I found they were too bulky to go in my bike panniers, as well as questionable in their usefulness to the teacher and parent.

TH: Did you have any favourite assessment tools?

MP: Yes. The WRaPS and the Neale were two favourites plus the Diagnostic Behaviour Questionnaire (DBQ).

TH: What attracted you to those assessments?

MP: I enjoyed assessing literacy skills, because reading and writing were activities children could enjoy, and also because there had been an emphasis on children’s literacy on the MSc. This emphasis was due in part to David Moseley, reader in applied psychology, who was a tutor on the Newcastle course. David had been involved in some of the research underpinning the National Literacy Strategy (1998- 2011). A diagnostic test I particularly enjoyed using was the WRaPS (Word Recognition & Phonic Skills Test), written by David Moseley himself.

The Neale Analysis of Reading Ability (NARA) was also a favourite of mine, as it involved the child reading short stories and then thinking about what they had read. In Leeds I’ve used literacy assessments less often than before, in part because we work alongside another team who have specialists in this field. It would be a matter of regret, in my opinion, if EPs distanced themselves from literacy development and assessment. Psychology has a lot to say about the process of learning to read and write, and how best to teach these skills.

I also enjoyed using the Diagnostic Behaviour Questionnaire (DBQ), which I discovered in a book called Improving School Behaviour (Watkins and Wagner, 2000). The DBQ was fun because I was giving the school work to do. Highly recommended for high school behaviour referrals.

TH: How would you describe your style of practice as an EP?

MP: With difficulty. I dabbled in dynamic assessment, personal construct psychology and using children’s drawings. The single approach that most impressed me was solution-focused brief therapy (SFBT), which I tried to follow in a broad sense. I wanted to be an EP with a ‘tool kit,’ with different approaches for different cases, rather than being tied to any particular theoretical approach. Above all I believe my approach was person-centred. My approach worked because of the sort of relationship I established with my clients, not because I adopted any theoretical position.

TH: Apart from SFBT, have any other therapeutic approaches interested you?

MP: Transactional Analysis (TA) is interesting, and can be used as the basis of a talking therapy. I haven’t used TA as an EP but want to use it as part of my personal development.

TH: What were the challenges in your career as an EP?

MP: The main challenge was having to alter my perspective from thinking like a teacher, after 16 years in the classroom, to thinking more like a psychologist, in some undefinable way. Other challenges have included:

· Learning about Early Years, as this phase was missing from my teaching experience. Raising two children of our own in parallel with developing as an EP was enlightening.

· Falling off my bike in Wakefield, and breaking my elbow, after work on Friday 13th October 2017.

· Falling off a different bike in Newcastle, en route to a school in the morning rush hour. Nothing was broken, but embarrassingly the Headteacher was not far behind. She pulled over and insisted I put my bike in her car so she could convey me to school. That incident taught me that even an EP in shock is better for a school than no EP at all.

TH: Is there anything you would do differently if you started again?

MP: For about 7 years I was part of a ‘complex communication’ team, based at St James’s Hospital, assessing young children for possible autism. Although I learnt a lot about autism and about multi-disciplinary working over those years, this was perhaps too long in one quite specialised role.

TH: Do you have any reflections on the future role of educational psychology?

MP: Yes. I’d like to reflect on the EP role in promoting inclusion. In a fragmented school system this is a complex and enormous challenge. The meaning of inclusion itself is debateable[footnoteRef:14]. However, during my time with Education Leeds (2004 – 2011), it felt like EPs were more involved in promoting inclusion than they are now. For example, we took part in the Inclusion Chartermark, a process which allowed schools to receive an award for their efforts to become more inclusive. I would like inclusion to regain its prominence amongst EP values. [14: I like the acronym PAPA (presence, acceptance, participation, achievement) to describe the essential conditions for inclusion, from the student’s perspective. I heard this from Peter Farrell, EP, on a course.]

TH: Do you have any more reflections?

MP: Yes, but I’ll save those to the next EP night out (if I’m invited[footnoteRef:15]). [15: pedlarmark@gmail.com]

Part 3: Themes

TH: Why have you worked for so long in Leeds?

MP: The short answer is that I developed a strong attachment to Leeds in my PGCE year and in my first years of teaching, when I had many formative experiences.

TH: What were the formative experiences?

MP: Leeds was a much more diverse and exciting place than the sleepy town in the Thames Valley where I grew up. Exploring the different parts of Leeds and West Yorkshire, sometimes by bike, was fun, as was discovering social and cultural opportunities. Being able to reach the Yorkshire Dales and Lake District easily was another attraction.

MP: What else happened in Leeds?

MP: My teaching practice and first teaching post were in Leeds high schools. I enjoyed my teaching practice, at a school long since demolished (Mathew Murray High), but struggled in my first teaching post. I only found satisfaction when I moved to a middle school in 1986. In the same year I bought my first house, in Kirkstall, a part of Leeds for which I developed a particular affection (for its natural beauty and historical interest as well as for nights at the Cardigan Arms and Sheesh Mahal). I was still in that back-to-back in 1996 when I met my future wife, Anne, who was teaching at Boston Spa Comprehensive. Together we made a house into a home, and had our first child. So that I could study for the MSc in Educational Psychology, we moved to Newcastle. We lived there for 6 years and had our second child.

TH: Then you returned to Leeds?

MP: Yes. I jumped at the opportunity to return in 2004, although the move entailed disruption for our young family. I was intrigued to go back as an EP to the schools I’d taught in. My career in education came full circle in 2015 when I took on the catchment area of Matthew Murray, the school where I did my teaching practice in the spring term 1982.

In Leeds I have finished my career in the most supportive and stimulating team any EP could wish for. The issues for EPs, however, are sharper than they’ve ever been during my career e.g. what is inclusion and what is our role in it? How to balance the demands of statutory work with having a role with all learners?

TH: Why did you choose to use your bike at work? Was it worth it when you kept coming off?

MP: I chose to use the bike for enjoyment, exercise and the sense of freedom. I also wanted to be part of the solution to the massive environmental and health problem in the city: traffic congestion and the harm it causes. Accidents have been few and far between (but memorable).

TH: Is it true you also used the bus?

MP: Yes; temporarily. I used public transport to get between my schools in Leeds for a number of years. Then, in 2014, I had a lightbulb moment, got my bike out of the shed and started cycling to my schools. Adams Court got a new bike shed and I made friends with cyclists from other teams. I am proud to have worked for a council that has invested millions in cycle lanes across the city.

TH: What was your favourite cycle route?

MP: The escape from team meetings at Pudsey Civic Hall, back to the city centre, was my favourite route. This was an exhilarating 6 mile downhill ride, on segregated cycle lanes for much of the way.

TH: What was your least favourite route?

MP: Across the no-man’s land between Wakefield and Leeds, under two motorways and past fields of rhubarb and cabbage, to get to Sharp Lane. It was a relief when I saw you at the school Tim.

TH: What were the disadvantages of using the bike at work?

MP: Air pollution in city-centre streets, which I was breathing in.

TH: I’ve noticed you’re interested in politics. How important has this been in your work in education?

MP: Very important. I’ve always seen both education and psychology as closely linked to politics. I mean politics in the broad sense of who has power in society, how power is shared and how it changes hands and so on. It seems to me that, in any given society, politics shapes the education and psychology that is possible. In education, for example, the content of the school curriculum, and what’s included and what’s excluded, is an intensely political subject. Black Lives Matter is reminding us.

TH: Is politics relevant to educational psychology?

MP: Yes. Educational psychology can’t escape politics. Inclusion, for example, is a political project which EPs have embraced in recent times. In a previous age it was the accepted norm for children to be segregated into different types of school and for other groups of children to be deemed ineducable. EPs used IQ tests to facilitate that earlier political project.

TH: Has this always been the case?

MP: Yes. Psychology, like history, has always been given direction by those in power. We can see this in the origin of the profession of educational psychology in this country. Just take a look at the work of Cyril Burt (1883 – 1971), an enthusiastic eugenicist and the first educational psychologist to be employed by a local authority. He helped design the tests that would become the 11-plus[footnoteRef:16], still used in twelve fully selective counties and other areas in England. [16: https://comprehensivefuture.org.uk/father-11-plus-sorry-tale-cyril-burt/]

TH: Can you give an example of a connection between politics and psychology?

MP: Participation. John Dewey, perhaps the greatest philosopher of education of the 20th Century, said that participation was just as important to democracy as representation. In other words, it’s important in a democracy for citizens to participate in the life of the community (e.g. in a trades union or voluntary group, serving on a jury, as a parent school governor) rather than just choose a representative. I think he feared democracy would die without participation. In social psychology, research shows that participation, such as in a faith group or community group, leads to a feeling of belonging, and promotes mental health. So to me politics and psychology are saying the same here.

TH: Which educationists and psychologists have influenced you during your career?

MP: Here are some:

Jerome Bruner (1915 – 2016) – as a cognitive psychologist he developed a theory of constructivist learning that underpinned the CLIS Project. Bruner also developed several theories or concepts that we now take for granted, such as discovery learning and scaffolding. I particularly like his idea of the spiral curriculum.

John Dewey (1859 - 1952) – he is most famous for his work on the link between education and democracy. An interesting review of his modern-day relevance can be found online.[footnoteRef:17] [17: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23265507.2017.1395290]

Ros Driver (1941-1997) - she was professor of science education at Leeds and director of the Children's Learning in Science Project (1982 - 1989) which I was involved with when a primary science co-ordinator.

Keith Topping - professor of educational and social research at the University of Dundee – his research on peer assisted learning was an inspiration when I carried out my MSc dissertation at Newcastle, and more recently in a peer writing project in Leeds.

Patsy Wagner – she was PEP in Kensington and Chelsea and her work on the consultation model of EP practice was an inspiration, in both Newcastle and Leeds.

TH: Which books, films and articles have inspired you during your career?

MP: Here is a selection:

Educational Psychology in Practice, Volume 11, Issue 4 (1996) – This special issue on peer assisted learning inspired me before I became an EP. I am grateful to Beth McPherson-Jones, then principal educational psychologist, for lending me this issue, and to her and Margery Page for arranging two days of shadowing in December 1997.

Spirit Level (2010) and Inner Level (2018) by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett. Their work highlights correlations between the level of inequality in communities and a host of outcomes, including educational attainment and mental health, and looks for explanations.

Britain’s Toxic Air Scandal (2019), Channel 4 Dispatches episode[footnoteRef:18] in which children at a London primary school take part in an investigation to measure and reduce the amount of toxic air they are being exposed to, in and around their school. [18: https://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/on-demand/69180-001]

Myth of Autism (2010) by Sami Timimi. Professor Timimi also impressed me at a workshop on the medicalisation of childhood at Sheffield University in January 2013.

Asperger’s Children: the origins of autism in Nazi Vienna (2018) by Edith Sheffer. A meticulously researched uncovering of the historical origins of autism.

Miseducation: inequality, education and the working classes (2017) by Diane Reay. The issue of social and economic class and education is the elephant in the room. Diane Reay’s passionately-written book is a good start.

Not in Your Genes (2017) by Oliver James. The well-known clinical psychologist emphasises the importance of parenting and attachment, rather than genetic inheritance, in shaping the people we become.

Last Child in the Woods (2005) by Richard Louv, the book in which he introduced the controversial idea of Nature Deficit Disorder (NDD). I used this book in preparing for my PIG in January 2020. Many other books on the benefits of nature for learning and for mental health have come out since this one.

Lost Connections: why you’re depressed and how to find hope (2019) by Johann Hari. Should be read by all professionals working in mental health, including EPs. Now in the EPT library.

Kes (1969), directed by Ken Loach, filmed in a school 5 miles from where I later taught.

TH: What key ideas have inspired you as a teacher and EP?

MP: As an EP I’ve continued to be inspired by similar ideas to those that inspired me as a teacher, and discovered some new ones. For all its many riches and revelations, it seems to me that psychology on its own can’t provide a ‘moral compass’. For that we need to look outside psychology. Here are three key ideas that are important to me:

1) Ecological awareness. This means learning about our dependence on the soil, water and air, and about the inter-dependence of all life on the planet. Learning to cherish the natural environment, starting in their own neighbourhoods, should be on every child’s curriculum. Children also need to know where food comes from. It would be a good thing, in my opinion, if every school allowed children to grow food in an allotment, and even better if they could then cook and prepare food in school, to make wholesome lunches for all. Many schools already have allotments, including several of my primary schools in south Leeds, and some even keep chickens (like me!).

2) Sustainable transport. The issue of air quality near busy roads is an issue for many schools in the city and for all professionals who work in the city. Air pollution impacts on children’s cognitive functions, as well as stunting their lung development. Walking and cycling are good for mental health. This is therefore a legitimate area of concern for EPs. A few years ago Greenpeace produced a map[footnoteRef:19] showing schools and early years settings close to roads with illegal levels and high levels of air pollution. I looked to see if any of my schools in south Leeds were at-risk. [19: https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2017/04/04/air-pollution-nurseries/]

3) Inclusive education. This is a cause supported by many teachers, parents and EPs, particularly in the wake of the influential Salamanca Statement in 1994. Closely related to the cause of inclusive education, in England, is the cause of comprehensive education[footnoteRef:20], but this older idea is less spoken of, perhaps because it’s assumed to have been achieved. In reality, comprehensive education has not yet been implemented across our country, 55 years after the government requested local authorities to convert their high schools to comprehensives[footnoteRef:21] (Leeds did this in 1972). In a recent report, Comprehensive Future tells us that around 100,000 children still sit the 11-plus exam each year, with 12 local authorities still operating fully selective school systems[footnoteRef:22]. [20: I have a personal interest in this issue as I went to a boys only, selective school at 11. Almost overnight I lost contact with all the girls I’d been taught alongside in junior school, and lost most of the friends I’d made, boy and girl. Although I got a lot out of grammar school, I believe a comprehensive, co-educational school would have been better for my long term education and development (and would have been better for the community as a whole in my home town).] [21: http://www.educationengland.org.uk/documents/des/circular10-65.html] [22: https://comprehensivefuture.org.uk/comprehensive-futures-response-to-inquiry-on-the-impact-of-covid-19-on-education/]

TH: What have you learnt overall from your 39 years in education?

MP: Two main things. First, that the landscape of education is constantly changing, in tandem with the changing politics. It’s been important for me to think about values, such as what the purpose of education is. This will always be important for both teachers and EPs. Second, the thing that has stayed the same is the enthusiasm that I’ve seen in young people, and ultimately their thirst to question and shape the world they live in.

TH: How do you intend to spend your retirement?

MP: Growing fruit and vegetables for the family. Reading. Walking. Biking safely.

TH: My career as an EP is starting just as yours is ending. Have you got any advice for me in the years ahead?

MP: Yes. Take an interest in your schools, their communities and their environment. Go on courses and read as widely as possible. Seek out opportunities to share the psychology with colleagues from other disciplines who share the same goals. Above all, have confidence in what your skills and experiences are bringing to the profession.

TH: What have you learnt about yourself over the last 39 years?

MP: An incredible amount, some of which won’t be apparent for years to come. Crucially I’ve learnt that I’ve never stopped learning from my colleagues, that I’ve made mistakes but learnt from them, and that I’ve achieved more as I’ve gained confidence. Truly these 39 years have been an education.

TH: That’s it for the interview Mark so all the best for your retirement.

MP: Thanks for putting the questions Tim. Good luck with your Doctorate and in your future career as an EP.

MP TH

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