OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 30 October 2019 … · 2020. 1. 13. · LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 30 October 2019 653 . OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS . Wednesday, 30 October

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 30 October 2019

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OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS

Wednesday, 30 October 2019

The Council met at Eleven o'clock

MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P. PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 30 October 2019 654

THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK WING-HANG THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN


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THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN THE HONOURABLE ALVIN YEUNG THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HO KAI-MING THE HONOURABLE LAM CHEUK-TING THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI, J.P. THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-CHUN THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI CHI-FUNG


THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI THE HONOURABLE JEREMY TAM MAN-HO THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HOI-YAN MEMBERS ABSENT: THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, G.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WAN SIU-KIN THE HONOURABLE CHU HOI-DICK THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHUN-YU THE HONOURABLE AU NOK-HIN


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PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE NICHOLAS W. YANG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY THE HONOURABLE JAMES HENRY LAU JR., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY DR THE HONOURABLE LAW CHI-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE THE HONOURABLE JOHN LEE KA-CHIU, S.B.S., P.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY PROF THE HONOURABLE SOPHIA CHAN SIU-CHEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH THE HONOURABLE EDWARD YAU TANG-WAH, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MR JOSEPH CHAN HO-LIM, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL MS DORA WAI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL


PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber. (After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber) PAPERS TO BE LAID ON THE TABLE OF THE COUNCIL The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure: Subsidiary Legislation/Instruments No.

Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources

(Toothfish Catch Documentation Scheme) Regulation ..........................................................

Legal Notice 150 of 2019

Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources (Port Inspection and Control) Regulation ..........


Administrative Appeals Board Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule) (No. 2) Order 2019 .......................


Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources Ordinance (Commencement) Notice .................


Merchant Shipping (Local Vessels) (Safety and Survey) (Amendment) Regulation 2019..........................


Merchant Shipping (Local Vessels) (General) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulation 2019 .............



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Antiquities and Monuments (Declaration of Monuments and Historical Buildings) (Consolidation) (Amendment) Notice 2019 .......


Eighth Technical Memorandum for Allocation of Emission Allowances in Respect of Specified Licences ..............................................

Special Supplement No. 5 to Gazette No. 43/2019

Other Papers

The Land Registry Trading Fund Hong Kong Annual Report 2018-19 (including Certified Financial Statements and Report of the Director of Audit) Electrical and Mechanical Services Trading Fund Report 2018/19 (including Financial Report and Report of the Director of Audit) Property Management Services Authority Annual Report 2018-19 (including Independent Auditor's Report and Financial Statements) Fish Marketing Organization Financial Statements and Independent Auditor's Report for the year ended 31 March 2019 Vegetable Marketing Organization Financial Statements and Independent Auditor's Report for the year ended 31 March 2019 Marine Fish Scholarship Fund Report, Financial Statements and Independent Auditor's Report for the period from 1 April 2018 to 31 March 2019


Agricultural Products Scholarship Fund Report, Financial Statements and Independent Auditor's Report for the period from 1 April 2018 to 31 March 2019 Consumer Council Annual Report 2018-19 (including Financial Statements and Independent Auditor's Report) West Kowloon Cultural District Authority Annual Report 2018/19 Urban Renewal Authority Annual Report 2018-19 (including Independent Auditor's Report and Financial Statements)

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Questions. First question. Mr Martin LIAO has already given me a prior notice that this question will be asked by Mr CHAN Kin-por on his behalf. I now call upon Mr CHAN Kin-por to ask the first question. Stand-over item: Six questions for oral replies (standing over from the meetings of 10 July 2019) Forward-looking and competitive policies on attracting innovation and technology talents 1. MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): President, in recent years, the Government has been committed to developing Hong Kong into an international innovation and technology ("I&T") hub, as well as continuously enhancing policies on and measures for attracting talents outside Hong Kong to come here for work, with a view to maintaining Hong Kong's edges amid the keen international competition for talents. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:


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(1) given that the Government has, since last year, provided through the Quality Migrant Admission Scheme immigration facilitation to eligible persons under the Talent List of Hong Kong, and launched the Technology Talent Admission Scheme, of the respective numbers of applications from I&T talents for working in Hong Kong received, approved and rejected by the Government so far under these two initiatives; in respect of the approved cases, of the number of talents who are currently in Hong Kong and those who will come to Hong Kong within this year, the nationalities and places of origin of the persons concerned, as well as the time taken to vet and approve such cases; whether it has evaluated the effectiveness of such initiatives, including if the number of talents who have been granted entry approval as well as their expertise and qualifications meet the expectations;

(2) given that authorities of overseas places and nearby municipalities

in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("Greater Bay Area") adjust from time to time their policies on and strategies for attracting outside talents, whether the Government has grasped and assessed the latest situation, reviewed and enhanced the talent admission arrangements of Hong Kong correspondingly, and introduced new schemes or measures to attract I&T talents, with a view to strengthening Hong Kong's competitiveness in this regard; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and

(3) of the Government's short and medium term targets on attracting the

various types of I&T talents from outside Hong Kong; given that the I&T development in Hong Kong is one of the integral parts in developing the Greater Bay Area into an international I&T hub, how the Government ensures that Hong Kong and other municipalities in the Greater Bay Area will complement, and will not compete viciously with, one another in attracting I&T talents?

SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): President, talent is the key to success for innovation and technology ("I&T") development. The Government has been attracting, nurturing and retaining I&T talent, with a view to expanding the I&T talent pool of Hong Kong.


Having consulted relevant bureaux and department, the reply to the three parts of the question is as follows:

(1) According to the Labour and Welfare Bureau, the Talent List was launched in August 2018, and immigration facilitation has been provided for applicants under the Quality Migrant Admission Scheme ("QMAS") involving professions covered by the Talent List. According to the information provided by the Immigration Department ("ImmD"), as at end September 2019, a total of 30 applications met the eligibility criteria of the three professions of "Data scientists and cyber security specialists", "Innovation and technology experts" and "Fintech professionals" under the Talent List, and were awarded 30 bonus points under the General Points Test. Amongst them, 25 have been allotted quotas while the remaining five are being processed. Applicants allotted with quotas were from the Mainland, Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom.

Upon receiving the required information and documents, ImmD will

normally be able to complete preliminary processing of the applications within two weeks, before submitting to the Advisory Committee on Admission of Quality Migrants and Professionals ("the Advisory Committee") for further assessment. The Advisory Committee will conduct the selection exercise for quota allocation to applicants quarterly, and recommend to the Director of Immigration how best to allocate available quotas. Results of each selection exercise will be published on the ImmD website within 15 working days after quota allocation.

The relevant measure of the Talent List has just been implemented

for a year. The Government will monitor the implementation to ensure it can keep up with Hong Kong's latest economic development and need for different talent.

On the other hand, the Innovation and Technology Commission

("ITC") launched the Technology Talent Admission Scheme ("TechTAS") in June 2018, which provides a fast-track route for


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admitting overseas and Mainland technology talent to undertake research and development ("R&D") work in Hong Kong. TechTAS is a three-year pilot scheme.

As at end September 2019, ITC has received 291 quota applications

and all of them have been approved. ImmD has received 99 relevant working visa or entry permit applications. Amongst them, 86 have been approved, nine have been withdrawn by the applicant and four are under processing. Talent with visas or entry permits approved came from the Mainland, Taiwan, the United States, South Korea, Malaysia, etc.

In general, ITC will approve quotas within three working days upon

receipt of all necessary information and documents, while ImmD will need two weeks to process the relevant visa or entry permit applications.

To further support technology development in Hong Kong, we will

extend the applicable technology areas of TechTAS from 7 to 13 and the coverage to all companies undertaking R&D activities in these 13 areas in Hong Kong. We will also extend the quota validity period from 6 to 12 months.

(2) The world is now competing intensely for technology talent.

Neighbouring regions such as Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area ("Greater Bay Area") cities, Taiwan, Singapore, Japan, etc., have launched proactive measures to attract talent, such as providing cash subsidy for foreign talent, providing talent apartment, relaxing restrictions on job selection, expediting processing of immigration and residency procedures, extending periods of stay, as well as relaxing the residence requirements of dependants, etc.

In Hong Kong, apart from QMAS and TechTAS mentioned in

part (1) of the reply, the Government has in place other immigration schemes to meet the needs of different professionals. Professionals


may apply to work in Hong Kong through the General Employment Policy applicable to overseas, Taiwan and Macao residents and the Admission Scheme for Mainland Talents and Professionals applicable to Mainland residents. Non-local graduates may apply to stay or return to work in Hong Kong through the Immigration Arrangements for Non-local Graduates. Persons who are the second generation of emigrated Chinese Hong Kong permanent residents from overseas may apply to return to Hong Kong for development through the Admission Scheme for the Second Generation of Chinese Hong Kong Permanent Residents.

The Government will continue to review the effectiveness of

different talent attraction measures and admission schemes and enhance the talent admission regime as appropriate, with a view to further attracting talent and professionals to come to Hong Kong for development and thereby enriching Hong Kong's talent pool.

(3) Hong Kong is in keen demand for I&T talent. According to the

Labour and Welfare Bureau's Manpower Projection to 2027 released in May 2019, the overall manpower requirements of Hong Kong is projected to increase at an average annual rate of 0.3% during the period of 2017 to 2027. The manpower requirements of the I&T sector are projected to grow the fastest among all sectors, at an average annual rate of 4.3%. Our goal is to fulfil the long-term needs of the industry on I&T talent.

Technology talent is undoubtedly hard to come by, but sourcing it is

by no means a zero-sum game. In terms of I&T development, Hong Kong has complementary strengths with other Greater Bay Area cities and is in need of different types of talent. Hong Kong has tremendous strength in scientific research, world-class universities, the advantage of being internationalized, a robust rule of law and intellectual property rights protection systems, and so forth. We are capable of attracting top global R&D talent. Meanwhile, other cities in the Greater Bay Area have a massive market, as well as the capability of research results commercialization that would require plenty of technical talent in advanced manufacturing. We


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believe every Greater Bay Area city will take appropriate measures to attract the needed talent, in accordance with their different development needs, to achieve mutual benefits.

MR POON SIU-PING (in Cantonese): President, as mentioned by the Secretary in the main reply, TechTAS, which was launched in June last year, has received 291 quota applications and all of them have been approved. However, I always think that this scheme has bypassed the vetting and approval mechanism of the Labour Advisory Board and is a better sounding name for what is really a labour importation scheme. Last week, media reports quoted some institutions as saying that there was a downward trend in the number of full-time employment vacancies for graduates in Hong Kong, with information technology vacancies decreasing by 10%. Secretary, have the authorities considered the impact of that scheme on the labour market, especially on the graduates from relevant fields? Given the economic uncertainties at present, will that scheme be suspended? SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): President, I thank the Honourable Member for his supplementary question. Firstly, the authorities have not pre-set any target for the applications. Secondly, we think that talents will go where there are opportunities. All the applications under TechTAS are made by enterprises. If enterprises do not actively submit applications, the number of applications will drop. We will pay careful attention to the needs of local labour market. Hence for the first year when it was launched, the authorities set a limit of not more than 1 000 quotas to make sure that local labour market would not be adversely affected. The Government will pay careful attention to the situation concerned. Besides, there is a requirement under TechTAS for employing local talents, which stipulates that for every one to three non-local persons admitted under the scheme, the company/institute concerned would need to employ one local full-time employee, plus two local interns. This is what we call the "3:1+2" requirement. Up till now, the 86 approved working visa or entry permit applications have already created 211 local jobs. Hence, in our view, this scheme will not deprive local talents of their employment opportunities, but will


increase employment opportunities for local talents. We will keep in view the number of applications to ensure that local labour market will not be adversely affected. MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, it is highly important to attract overseas talents, because technology development depends entirely on talents. However, when making a decision of coming to Hong Kong or not, actually an overseas talent will consider whether there are sufficient supporting facilities in Hong Kong, such as international schools, talent apartments, enterprise and talent matching platform. I believe the Government must have considered these aspects and dealt with them. My question is about how to train more local talents in order to meet our future I&T requirements. We have given different views before and I will raise my views again today for consideration by the Secretary. For example, as we know, the number of university places relating to programmes on STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) education is not sufficient at present. Will the authorities increase the number of such places? Will the financial assistance to research postgraduate students be increased? Will the scope of the Continuing Education Fund be further expanded and more resources be allocated to it so that more local talents can study I&T related subjects? Moreover, we have been proposing that STEM … PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Elizabeth QUAT, it is not the time for a debate. Please directly raise your supplementary question. MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): … Yes, I would like to ask the Government whether it will consider incorporating STEM, AI (Artificial Intelligence) and Coding (computer programming) into the curriculum of primary and secondary schools. The qualification of teachers is also very important. Will the Government consider setting up a STEM Institute to be modelled on the Hong Kong Sports Institute to train more qualified teachers and talents, with a view to promoting I&T development in Hong Kong?


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SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): I thank Ms QUAT for her supplementary question. Firstly, concerning the training of I&T talents, we think interaction and integration are needed. To this end, and as a long-term approach, we have established two InnoHK research clusters in the hope that more and more local talents can be nurtured through participation in these clusters. Besides, we have confidence in the Hong Kong-Shenzhen Innovation and Technology Park in the Lok Ma Chau Loop, and we expect that over 50 000 jobs related to scientific research can be created. We fully understand Ms QUAT's question and we have done pretty well in providing support facilities. The Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks Corporation has already launched an Accommodation Support Scheme, providing accommodation subsidy of up to $10,000 per month to each eligible overseas I&T employee, with a view to encouraging overseas I&T personnel to work in Hong Kong. Furthermore, in terms of education for children, there are currently 46 international schools providing primary education and 34 international schools providing secondary education in Hong Kong for a total of over 40 000 students. Judging from the present situation, we believe we have sufficient capacity to provide quality education to the children of I&T talents. As regards Ms QUAT's suggestion of enhancing the STEM or STEAM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Art and Mathematics) programmes, we know that starting from next year, the Education Bureau will launch a pilot scheme to provide scholarship to 1 000 local students who pursue specified postgraduate programmes, subject to a ceiling of $120,000 per student per annum, with a view to enrolling and encouraging more students to take I&T related subjects, particularly degree programmes related to big data, finance technology, AI and robotics. In regard to secondary schools, the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer has rolled out the Enriched IT Programme in Secondary Schools for the fourth year, subsidizing over 142 local secondary schools to organize different extra-curricular activities related to I&T, in which 20 000 students have participated. We hope we can do our job much better in this aspect.


Now, in the present situation, I think we need to work on some aspects. Firstly, we can train up the talents we need, and concerted efforts are needed to achieve this. Secondly, we hope that more students will be inspired and encouraged to enrol in the latest I&T courses or degree programmes. Thirdly, concerning extra-curricular activities and popular science education for secondary students, we hope we can do our job well. In all these aspects, we will continue to put in efforts. We will also maintain communication with the Education Bureau in order that more can be done. Nonetheless, we hope that the Government does not work solely on its own. We also need the input of other institutions in society. The Hong Kong Jockey Club, for example, is very keen on doing this aspect of work. It is hoped that more I&T talents can be nurtured. MR JIMMY NG (in Cantonese): President, I would like to follow up on Mr POON Siu-ping's supplementary question earlier on. Concerning TechTAS, ITC has indeed approved 291 quota applications, but as at September 2019, ImmD has only approved 86 visa applications, and there is a large discrepancy between the two figures. May I ask the Secretary: Is the vetting and approval mechanism of ImmD too stringent? SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr NG for his supplementary question. I would like to explain this procedure. Firstly, the vetting and approval process of quota applications is very short. As long as the required information is available, the process will be completed in three days. After a quota is approved, the employer can start recruiting talents outside Hong Kong. But as to when they can successfully recruit talents, it is a question of demand and supply in the market. Nowadays, as the world is competing intensely for technology talents, employers may take a very short time or a very long time to successfully recruit talents. As we have noticed, there are 291 quotas but only 86 working visas are approved. One of the major factors is that it takes time to recruit staff. Employers may need to do some work; some people may consider a number of job types; or employers are unable to recruit suitable staff. These are some of the problems. We are now thinking about ways to assist them in this regard.


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ImmD normally needs about two weeks to process the applications. In my view, the application processing time of three days plus two weeks is very reasonable. The time required for the vetting procedure is not too long. MR CHUNG KWOK-PAN (in Cantonese): President, as seen from the Secretary's reply, I think he believes that nothing special will happen in Hong Kong under normal circumstances. However, we are all aware of the upheavals in Hong Kong in the past few months. As just mentioned by the Secretary, many neighbouring countries and places are actively attracting talents. Talents will go where there are opportunities. But in reality, are there still many opportunities in Hong Kong? Besides, it is just mentioned that 25 and 86 applications have been approved under QMAS and TechTAS respectively. But have these talents actually come to Hong Kong? Given the recent turmoil in Hong Kong, will they change their minds? Would they rather go to other places than coming to Hong Kong? My greatest worry is that Hong Kong will also lose the talents it already has. At present, many people are talking about emigration. If many attractive policies are available in the neighbouring countries I just mentioned, Hong Kong may suffer a brain drain. Secretary, can you make an assessment of this situation? SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr CHUNG for his supplementary question. We have paid close attention to the recent situation, and we need to consider two aspects. On the one hand, the social turmoil in Hong Kong has genuinely affected the inclination of overseas talents to come to Hong Kong and there is indeed such an impact. But on the other hand, through the two InnoHK research clusters, we have seen the efforts of many foreign talents in promoting I&T in Hong Kong in the past two years. Indeed, opportunities have been created through the use of resources provided. Hence, we see that there is growth on the one hand, but there may be some impact on the inclination of some people on the other hand. As regards TechTAS, the number of applications received in the past few months has really dropped. Nonetheless, there is an increase instead of a decrease in the number of applications for the Postdoctoral Hub and the


Researcher Programme. Hence, we must see clearly if the increase outweighs the decrease, or other things happen. We are closely monitoring the situation. In my view, however, what is most important is to continue our efforts in promoting I&T in Hong Kong, in a bid to create opportunities which other regions do not offer. We have to keep up our work in this aspect. The trade development between China and the United States is affecting the whole globe. I can only tell Members that the situation of Hong Kong is not bad, compared with other regions. We hope to give foreign talents an impression that even amid the trade war between China and the United States, Hong Kong still has many opportunities. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Second question. Use of emergency ambulance service 2. PROF JOSEPH LEE (in Cantonese): A large group of demonstrators surrounded the Police Headquarters ("PHQ") for the whole day of 21 June this year, barring entry and exit of vehicles and persons. At night of that day, some persons inside PHQ reported feeling unwell and called emergency ambulance service. The Police subsequently accused that the demonstrators' blocking the roads had delayed the rescue work. However, it has been reported that the Police refused to clear the way for the ambulances which had arrived in the vicinity of PHQ, and only after a protracted period of time did they open the eastern entrance gate of PHQ for entry of the ambulancemen. Furthermore, some of the persons who had been conveyed to the accident and emergency ("A&E") department by ambulance left without receiving diagnoses and treatments. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the reasons why the Police refused to clear the way for the ambulances;

(2) of the respective durations between the ambulances' arrival in the

vicinity of PHQ and their departure upon picking up the various persons who reported feeling unwell; and


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(3) whether it has assessed, among the aforesaid persons who were conveyed to the A&E department by ambulance, the number of those who had a genuine need for receiving emergency diagnoses and treatments, and if emergency ambulance service had been abused?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, at about 10:50 am on 21 June, there were demonstrators blocking the vicinity of Harcourt Road, Arsenal Street and Gloucester Road and further besieging the Police Headquarters ("PHQ") in Wan Chai. Their acts seriously affected the work of the Police, including the provision of emergency services to the public. At around noon that day, the Police informed its civilian staff that they might opt to leave PHQ early. Up to 3:30 pm or so, except for an entrance for the physically challenged to the east of PHQ, which remained unblocked, all vehicular and pedestrian accesses had been blocked with numerous objects by the demonstrators and were inaccessible. When the said entrance for the physically challenged was also blocked at around 4:45 pm, all staff members still in PHQ then were unable to leave. The Police tried repeatedly to ask the demonstrators to give way for PHQ staff to leave but failed. When besieging PHQ, the demonstrators blocked the entrance gates with mills barriers and sundries, threw eggs at PHQ, drew graffiti on the façade, and covered the closed-circuit television cameras on the outer wall with adhesive tapes. They also splashed paint on police officers and pointed laser beams at police officers' eyes. As some staff members being trapped in PHQ, including a pregnant woman, chronic patients, severely ill patients and certain older staff, indicated that they were feeling unwell and required emergency ambulance service, the Police called for the emergency ambulance service at about 9:30 pm. The Fire Services Department ("FSD") sent altogether five ambulances, a multi-purpose vehicle and a rapid response vehicle to PHQ in response to the call that night. With obstacles on Gloucester Road and crowds in the streets nearby, the ambulances could not approach the west gate of PHQ at Gloucester Road and had to be parked at the junction of Jaffe Road and Fenwick Street. Meanwhile, the on-scene ambulance personnel tried to drive the ambulances slowly through the crowds of demonstrators but in vain. The ambulance personnel also considered moving the road blocks aside but found it impractical in light of the


amount of obstacles and circumstances at the scene. FSD had also discussed with the Police the feasibility of transferring the emergency patients to hospitals for treatment from the rooftop of PHQ by helicopter. Having studied the situation, they considered it not suitable for a helicopter to land there for transferring patients given the constraints in technical aspects and operational arrangements. The first batch of ambulance personnel, together with ambulances, arrived at Fenwick Street at around 10:30 pm. However, the ambulances could not enter PHQ as the road was blocked by demonstrators. At around 11:11 pm, the ambulance personnel walked to the west gate of PHQ from the junction of Fenwick Street and Jaffe Road, bringing along with them stretchers and rescue equipment. As there were a large number of obstacles on the road outside the west gate, the ambulance personnel had to walk through the crowd in order to get to the east entrance of PHQ instead. They reached the staircase of the east entrance at about 11:27 pm. As the electric gate of the east entrance of PHQ had ceased to operate due to the protest, time was needed for the key to be fetched to open the gate so that the ambulance personnel could enter PHQ and reach the patients inside. Subsequently, the first batch of ambulance personnel reached the patients inside PHQ at around 11:51 pm and sent them to hospitals by batches. On the night of 21 June, there were 13 staff members who felt unwell inside PHQ. Together with two persons accompanying them, all the 15 persons were brought to Queen Mary Hospital and Ruttonjee Hospital by ambulances respectively. Citizens have the right to peaceful expression of views but they have to abide by law. Blockage of the entrance of PHQ and malicious obstruction of the free access and exit of police staff, which delayed the treatment to be received by staff in need inside PHQ, had gone far beyond the bottom line of peaceful expression of views. On the night of 21 June, the Police kept liaising with the ambulance personnel via the Fire Services Communication Centre such that the staff members feeling unwell could receive emergency ambulance service as early as possible. This is the responsibility of the Police in taking care of their staff, and also the purpose of the emergency ambulance service.


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Different views of the public on the current situation cannot be solved by illicit behaviour or violent acts. The escalating violence in these four months or so, as well as incidents of setting fire and vandalism, has caused shock, anxiety and pain among all Hong Kong people. Our top priority now is to stop the violence, safeguard the rule of law, and restore order and public peace. At the same time, all sectors of the society should engage in dialogues instead of confrontations, so that our society could move forward again. PROF JOSEPH LEE (in Cantonese): I feel very disappointed that the Secretary has spent about five minutes to read out 1 200 words of crap but not answered the three parts of my main question. President, my three questions are straightforward: Why did the Police refuse to give way or clear the way? Has the emergency ambulance service been abused? Exactly how acute were the situations of those concerned? Despite having about 1 200 words according to my count, the main reply has not answered my question. President, please ask the Secretary to answer these three questions again. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add? SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, I have already answered Prof LEE's main question. First of all, I have made it very clear just now that the roads outside PHQ were severely blocked and the Police made multiple requests for allowing the ambulance personnel to enter PHQ and provide ambulance service. Apart from sending negotiators, the Police also, through the media, called on those blocking PHQ to open up a passageway for use by those who needed it. However, amid severe congestion, the Police were unable to do anything at all to open up a passageway. In addition, I made it clear in the main reply that some staff members being trapped in PHQ, including a pregnant woman, chronic patients, severely ill patients and certain older staff, indicated that they were feeling unwell and


required emergency ambulance service. Therefore, there was absolutely no abusive usage in this respect as described by Prof LEE. (Mr HUI Chi-fung indicated his wish to raise a point of order) PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI Chi-fung, what is your point of order? MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): I wish to seek elucidation from the Secretary in accordance with Rule 26(4) of the Rules of Procedure, because I was on the spot that night, I want to point out that the Secretary's reply just now was untrue. On that night, the ambulance arrived at the scene on Fenwick Street where it was not subjected to any … PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI, please sit down first. Secretary, do you wish to elucidate? SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, what I have just said is that different streets outside PHQ were severely blocked, making it difficult for the ambulance personnel to access the headquarters after parking at the junction of Fenwick Street and Jaffe Road. Thus, I have clearly explained in the main reply how the ambulance personnel tried to access PHQ. (Mr HUI Chi-fung was still standing, with the intention of continuing to ask questions) PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI, if you wish to ask a supplementary question, please press the "Request to speak" button and wait for your turn. What you have just raised is not a point of order, and the Secretary has already elucidated. This is not a time for debate either. Please sit down. Mr WU Chi-wai, please ask your question.


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MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): President, that is not the truth. President, please let me point out the truth. He has not answered my question. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): It is now question time, not a time for you to make use of a point of order to ask for elucidation. I have asked the Secretary and he has already elucidated. This is not a time for debate. Please sit down. If you refuse to sit down and continue to disrupt the proceedings, I will regard such behaviour as grossly disorderly. Mr WU Chi-wai, please ask your question. MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): Just now, Prof Joseph LEE said that John LEE was talking crap. That is true. Let us take a look at the Secretary's main reply. He said that his colleagues were in urgent need of emergency ambulance service due to dire circumstances. However, the Secretary indicated in the main reply that FSD had discussed with the Police the feasibility of transferring the emergency patients to hospitals for treatment from the rooftop of PHQ by helicopter. The Secretary said that having studied the situation, they considered that there were constraints in technical aspects and operational arrangements. What, may I ask, do the constraints in technical aspects and operational arrangements refer to, particularly the constraints in operational arrangements? The reason for my question is that, if the main reply was anything to go by, the operational arrangements would affect the conditions of these 13 unwell employees, depriving them of timely and prompt emergency ambulance service, and if that was the case, did you fail to fulfil your responsibility for the work of the Police Force, namely to facilitate employees to receive emergency ambulance service as soon as possible when they feel unwell? Did you derelict in duty? SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, when the Police and FSD studied the feasibility of transferring the patients to hospitals from the rooftop of PHQ by helicopter, the main consideration was whether the rooftop's design allowed helicopter landing. As the rooftop was not designed for helicopter landing, it was unfeasible due to safety and technical concerns.


However, I hope for Mr WU's understanding that the Police Force sets great store by the physical condition of its staff, and that is why, as we all can see, it asked FSD to send ambulances at a very early moment. I believe that the importance attached by the Police Force to the physical health of its staff should not be called into question, because any department has a responsibility to its staff, as I have just said. Nevertheless, regarding the cause of the incident, I hope that Members will focus on why FSD's ambulance personnel were unable to enter PHQ even on arrival at the junction of Jaffe Road and Fenwick Street. It was precisely because the roads were blocked by people, and there was a plethora of obstacles. The ambulancemen had tried all methods, including removing some obstacles and trying to drive through the crowd, but in vain. This root cause is important. It was precisely because this group of demonstrators illegally blocked PHQ that the people concerned could not receive immediate services to meet their health care needs. This point is important. DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): President, is John LEE done with his lies? His mouth is full of lies and malignant slanders. In many demonstrations, every time an ambulance needed to pass, all the demonstrators made way for it, like "parting the Red Sea", which was also covered by foreign media. President, I was on the spot that day, together with Dr Fernando CHEUNG in Gloucester Road. Seeing that the Police had no way to help the ambulancemen in, we led them in through the east gate. When we reached an upper position and intended to go in, we made two requests. First, the gate should be opened for the ambulancemen to enter. Secondly, having identified myself as a doctor, I volunteered to offer help by diagnosing patients and dealing with emergencies for them. Unfortunately, they spent half an hour to unsuccessfully look for the key. That really took the biscuit. For one thing, while the patients were waiting for emergency aid, the key was not found. For another, when the gate was opened, I said I could go in to diagnose the patients, but the counterpart refused, telling me to stay outside. To be honest, for each of the employees who came out at the time, I have performed a diagnosis to ensure their safety.


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In fact, many employees could have left on that afternoon, and it was not difficult to do so before 3:00 pm. However, the Police did not let the many older staff members or the pregnant woman in PHQ to leave. Instead, what they wanted was to make such a song and dance … PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr KWOK Ka-ki, please raise your supplementary question directly. DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): President, I am about to raise my supplementary question. Secondly, today the police officers were … PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr KWOK Ka-ki … DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): President, please let me finish my question … PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): This is not a debate session. Please raise your supplementary question directly. DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): Okay. It is precisely John LEE, Carrie LAM and Teresa CHENG who have turned the Police into "black cops". How dare he still show his face to proffer an explanation! President, his reply is clear: The escalating violence in these four months or so, as well as incidents of setting fire and vandalism, has caused shock, anxiety and pain among all Hong Kong people. Actually, the culprit is John LEE!


Will you, John LEE, apologize and bow to those victimized today and in the 21 June incident? SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, those mentioned in the supplementary question just now is fully consistent with the content of my main reply. That is to say, when the paramedics arrived at the main gate of PHQ, as the electric gate was in temporary disuse, time was needed to fetch the key so that those in need of emergency services could come out to receive treatment from the ambulance personnel. However, as I have just mentioned, the root cause was that a group of demonstrators illegally blocked PHQ. This is also an important issue of cause and effect. Therefore, the ambulance personnel's failure to immediately cater to those in need of emergency care was entirely due to the blockage, which is definitely a violation of law. As far as I know, some people involved in the said blockage have been arrested and prosecuted. Moreover, the first person subjected to a hearing will appear in court at the end of this month on charges of participating in an unauthorized and unlawful assembly and assaulting police officers. In conclusion, an important point is that the illegal blockage of access to PHQ caused delays throughout the rescue effort that night. DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): I have made my question very clear. They spent half an hour to unsuccessfully look for the key. The source of this riot is you, John LEE! I have made my question very clear. Will you bow and apologize for obstructing the staff and causing the situation in Hong Kong today? John LEE, you just need to answer yes or no! PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add? SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, any illegal acts should not be accepted in Hong Kong. Therefore, we should not allow illegal acts, such as the use of violence and arson that continue up to this day. From my point of view, we should condemn and stop any violence.


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MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): Secretary, FSD has pointed out that police officers will board an ambulance under four circumstances, one of which being that an injured person is under arrest, in which case police officers can board the ambulance to assist in keeping that person under control. Nevertheless, we see that the four-month-plus "anti-extradition to China" movement has exposed the police brutality towards frontline health care personnel and revealed suspected cases of police leaking patients' private information. Incidents such as fully armed police officers entering hospitals and male police officers entering the maternity ward have infuriated the health care sector. That is why they held a rally last week to accuse the Police of abuse of power. I would like to ask: Are there any guidelines and restrictions on police officers boarding ambulances? For example, can they carry weapons on board an ambulance and use the weapons against an injured person under arrest, including spraying pepper spray and even firing shots? Over the past four months or so, have there been any reports of Police use of force on board ambulances? PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Gary FAN's supplementary question has already digressed from the main question, namely, the 21 June incident. But anyway, Secretary, do you have anything to add? SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, in my view, the supplementary question raised just now is very biased and not fully reflective of the facts. Certainly, if an arrested person who has been involved in a violent act needs to go to hospital for any health care service while in police custody, since he is still an arrested person from the legal perspective, the Police are held responsible for any happenings during his detention. Therefore, if the arrested person needs to be escorted to a hospital, police officers will ride along in the ambulance. During the process, it is essential that the Police take the necessary measures, whatever they may be. Putting aside whether the person is a demonstrator, common sense tells us that if someone is involved in a violent act or a general offence, the Police need to first ensure that the person under arrest does not flee. Secondly, the Police


should be properly equipped in case the arrested person uses force. Therefore, the Police must take due measures in this regard to prevent the arrested person from fleeing and others in the ambulance from being threatened, while ensuring the personal safety of police officers. (Mr Gary FAN stood up) MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary has not answered my question … PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr FAN, your supplementary question has already digressed from the main question. Please sit down. Third question, Mr Paul TSE. (Mr Gary FAN continued to speak aloud while standing) PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr FAN, please sit down. Impacts of recent political situation 3. MR PAUL TSE (in Cantonese): President, since June this year, tens of thousands of people took to the street for many times to protest against the proposals to amend the law concerning surrender of fugitive offenders, and to demand the Chief Executive and relevant officials to take responsibility by stepping down. Some demonstrators blocked roads, besieged government buildings and clashed with the Police on a number of occasions. There are comments that the aforesaid situation shows that there is a serious dissension within society and a complete loss of mutual trust between the Government and the people. Also, disputes and agitation in society have caused instability in the economy as well as anxiety in people's mind. For example, a developer gave up, undeterred by forfeiture of the deposit it had paid, a site which it had won in a bidding exercise, and some companies shelved their listing plans. Moreover, it


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is learned that a tide of emigration from Hong Kong has recurred. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it has assessed how the status of Hong Kong as an international city and a top-notch investment and financial centre has been undermined by the widespread anger among the people which has been triggered by the Government's proposed legislative amendments; of the measures put in place to restore the confidence of the international community and members of the public in Hong Kong's future;

(2) whether it has assessed the negative impacts of the depressing social

sentiment and the chaotic political situation on the local property and stock markets as well as the overall economy, and the mitigation measures; and

(3) whether it has assessed the negative impacts of the resurge of the

emigration tide on Hong Kong's economic development and labour supply, and of the mitigation measures?

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, in the past four months, Hong Kong has been facing unprecedentedly severe challenges. Demonstrations, processions and rallies have turned into violent incidents and have definitely affected Hong Kong's international image. The impact of the social conflict has spread to all business sectors. Among them, tourism, retail and catering industries bear the brunt. Business has plummeted. Having consulted other relevant bureaux, our consolidated response to the three parts of the question is as follows:

(1) The core competencies of Hong Kong as an international financial centre remain well in place. Different facets of Hong Kong's financial system have been functioning smoothly and orderly so far. Article 112 of the Basic Law safeguards the free flow of capital within, into and out of Hong Kong. The Linked Exchange Rate


System of Hong Kong has served as the cornerstone for Hong Kong's monetary and financial stability. Our simple and transparent taxation system, effective infrastructure, sound financial regulatory regimes and rule of law, as well as quality professional services lay the foundation for Hong Kong's platform as an international financial centre.

Hong Kong's banking system has been sound and robust. The

liquidity of our banking system remains ample, and the interbank market continues to operate orderly. There was no noticeable outflow of funds from the Hong Kong dollar or from the banking system based on the latest statistics on deposits and money supply. The Hong Kong Monetary Authority ("HKMA") will continue to closely monitor changes in the foreign exchange market and the local money market, maintain the stability of the Hong Kong dollar exchange rate through the Linked Exchange Rate System and provide liquidity support to banks if necessary.

The Securities and Futures Commission has been closely monitoring

the securities market. The trading and clearing operations of the Hong Kong stock and derivatives markets have been performing in an orderly manner in spite of the increasing market volatility.

The Government and financial regulators will stay vigilant, conduct

stress tests regularly, communicate closely and monitor the latest situation of the financial market, with a view to ensuring financial stability. We will also strive to sharpen Hong Kong's attractiveness as an international financial centre through a multi-pronged approach.

The confidence of the international community and our citizens in

Hong Kong's prospect has a bearing on Hong Kong's status as an international financial centre. All sectors of society must work together to stop violence and restore the social order as soon as possible, in order to allow the general public to resume normal lives and allow the trade and business to resume normal operations.


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(2) In the context of the global economy, the Hong Kong economy grew slightly by 0.5% year-on-year in the first half of this year, the weakest increase in a decade. The local social events of the past few months have further affected the atmosphere of consumption and investment, which has made the economic situation worse. Since July this year, there have been sharp reductions in visitor arrivals and retail sales, a continued decline in exports as well as deeply dampened business, investment and consumption sentiments. Certain industries have recorded the worst business performance recently. It is very likely that the Hong Kong economy has already slipped into a technical recession in the third quarter. Besides, the current situation has not shown any sign of improvement. The annual economic growth forecast of 0% to 1% seems extremely difficult to be achieved.

The property market has always been affected by a number of

factors, including housing supply and demand, local and external economic environment, interest rates and market expectations etc. China-United States trade frictions and recent social events in Hong Kong have also exerted certain impact on the property market. Although the property market has slackened in the past few months and the property prices in some areas have slightly adjusted, the level of private residential property prices remain high, and is out of line with the economic tone and the affordability of the public. At this stage, the Government has no intention of relaxing or cancelling the existing demand-side management measures. We will continue to closely monitor the trend of the property market and the changing external situation and take appropriate measures to maintain the healthy development of the property market. The Chief Executive has just proposed a number of measures in the Policy Address to increase housing and land supply.

In the stock market, there are many unstable factors in the global,

regional and local conditions that have implications on the financial markets of the world and Hong Kong. Despite the volatility of the


market, the trading and settlement business of the Hong Kong stock and derivatives market is still operating in an orderly manner. We have strived to develop Hong Kong into a broader and deeper platform for fund-raising in the new economy. For instance, with effect from 28 October this year, companies with a weighted voting rights structure as listed in Hong Kong could be included as eligible securities under the Southbound Trading of Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect and Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect upon fulfilment of certain criteria.

The Government is well aware of the pressure borne by small and

medium enterprises ("SMEs") and members of the public amid an economic downturn. We announced in August, September and October respectively three rounds of support measures amounting to over $20 billion for enterprises, especially those impacted rather directly, to safeguard jobs. The Government will maintain close communication with the trade and introduce further support measures if necessary. HKMA has established a Banking Sector SME Lending Coordination Mechanism to implement a series of support measures for SMEs. The Government will continue to provide appropriate support to business operators and the general public for them to tide over the current difficulties.

(3) We have not seen a large scale of brain drain for the time being.

Hong Kong's institutional strengths and core competencies remain strong. As long as social activities of a violent nature are calmed down, Hong Kong will surely continue to bring together talents from local and international sources. The Government will continue to promote diversified economic development, foster local talents and attract foreign talents in various aspects to tie in with the long-term development of the Hong Kong economy.

To assist employees who are affected by the recent economic

downturn to enhance their skills and self-improvement, the Employees Retraining Board commissioned the Love Upgrading


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Special Scheme in early October to provide free integrated skills enhancement training and special allowance for the trainees. In addition, the Labour Department has been implementing a number of special employment programmes to encourage employers to employ elderly people, young people and people with disabilities.

MR PAUL TSE (in Cantonese): President, there is a Cantonese phrase called "timely rain" and we happen to have an example showing what "timely rain" means. And that is, a super tycoon, whom all Hong Kong people know well, announced that he would fork out $200 million for SMEs, and that all SMEs could apply without going through complicated procedures as long as they satisfied three conditions. This measure can genuinely help SMEs in deep water now. The Government also said it would set aside $20 billion and introduce a series of measures. It all sounds heart-warming and sincere. I understand that the Government is subject to considerable constrains and difficulties when using public money. However, the Government's approach is a far cry from that of many caring people doing similar things in their private capacity. To date, it has not finished handing out the $4,000 cash. President, let me take the increase in the rentals of shop operators under Short Term Tenancies in Lei Yue Mun as an example. I would like to point out to the Secretaries that on the one hand, the Government says it must help members of the public and SMEs, but on the other hand it raises the shop rentals, posing great difficulties to restaurants and the tourism industry in their business operation. As the two Secretaries are present, I would like to take this opportunity to ask them: Even though the Government is unable to figure out any new ideas, it should learn from other people's approaches and use the simplest and quickest measures to assist SMEs and members of the public in alleviating their hardship. Is it right?


PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Which Secretary will answer? Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, the Government in fact has put in place multi-faceted and practical measures, which are the three rounds of measures I just mentioned, to ameliorate the operation environment of SMEs, frontline business sectors and the tourism industry. Regarding the issue of rentals, the Government has announced in this round of measures that it will reduce the rentals by 50% for six months for tenancies in government premises, including retail premises. Moreover, we have communicated with major developers of commercial properties and encouraged them to make special rental consideration at this difficult time of Hong Kong. As I just said, in addition to the three rounds of measures, we will closely monitor the situation and take timely actions to implement relief measures as and when such needs arise. MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): President, the Government has been criticized for its piecemeal approaches to problems. However, as I said last week, in face of the unprecedented blow to Hong Kong over the past four-odd months, the Government has somewhat progressed. I am being sarcastic, of course. It has actually faltered. The Government is prescribing the wrong remedies. It wishfully thinks that political problems can be solved by economic means. Such thinking is doomed to failure. The two Secretaries designated to attend this meeting to answer our questions today, namely the Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury and the Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development, are also doomed to failure because the Government has again "progressed". It has not prescribed the wrong remedies this time. It has simply denied the existence of problems, saying that the Government was problem-free and operating smoothly.


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Part (3) of Mr Paul TSE's main question asks whether the Government has assessed the negative impacts of the resurge of the emigration tide on Hong Kong's economic development and labour supply, and what mitigation measures it has in place. In his reply, the Secretary says that they have not seen a large scale of brain drain for the time being, and that Hong Kong's institutional strengths and core competencies remain strong. Come on, does he know how many people are now planning to emigrate to other countries? A friend of mine operates an emigration company. President, over 1 000 people are now waiting for a consultation at his company. Upon arriving at his company, some people immediately asked him what the quickest way they can have to leave Hong Kong. These people who want to emigrate are not the violent protesters whom the Secretary has described. They are just people who do not have confidence in Hong Kong, who think that the Police will make indiscriminate arrests, who think that "one country, two systems" only exists in name and is in peril and who think that the promise of dual universal suffrage will not be honoured or fulfilled. And now, they even think that the right to stand for election is at risk and the candidates will be disqualified. These are where the problem is. My supplementary question is very simple. Either one of the Secretaries can reply since they know very well that they can only give a piecemeal answer or even deny the existence of any problems. In fact, the core issue is that the Government must directly respond to the five demands in order to break the deadlock and restore the confidence of the people in Hong Kong and enable them to keep their original way of life. Will the Secretaries go back and ask Carrie LAM to focus on the core issue and directly respond to the five demands, so as to break the deadlock? PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Which Secretary will answer? Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, the Chief Executive also mentioned this point to the press before the Executive Council meeting yesterday. She admits that no matter how


much work we do to support enterprises and safeguard jobs, all such work is only a stopgap measure, and that the solution lies in expeditiously stopping violence and restoring peace to Hong Kong; and when peace is restored, we will have a lot of work to do to invigorate our economy. The SAR Government has started doing planning in this area. When peace is restored in society, we will make an extra effort to do work on different economic fronts, including overseas promotion, Mainland liaison, etc. As for the work on stopping violence, we need the support of whole society. Thus, we, as the Government, are willing to take the lead and work together with different sectors of society on this work. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered? MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary did not answer my supplementary question. My question is simple and direct. He had better save his rubbish talk. Will he ask Carrie LAM to directly respond to the five demands? If he can do that, the violent situation he mentioned will cease. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add? SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, the Government has repeatedly expressed its stand towards the five demands. I have nothing to add. DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I agree that the Chief Secretary for Administration should be the one to answer this question today. Indeed, we cannot just bury our heads in the sand. This question today is about the economy, but Mr CHAN Chi-chuen talked about the five demands. In fact, they are kind of like chanting slogans when they put their questions. Can the Government try to strike a balance when it disentangles the present situation? What I wish to say is, many shops are


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vandalized in the riots for no reasons, and banks are left inoperable and suffer serious losses. Apart from directly responding to the five demands, has the Government considered launching inter-bureau cooperation? Has it considered learning from the British experience in handling the riots in 2011? At that time, there were serious clashes between the Police and the people. Society was at its nadir. Anti-social sentiments were strong. Five hundred million pounds were lost within days. Many shops were smashed. Education became problematic. At that juncture, David CAMERON decisively set up the Riots, Communities and Victims Panel to investigate the causes of the riots, establish a compensation mechanism and look into the issues of social conflicts. The Panel also requested the courts to operate on a 24-hour basis to speed up judicial proceedings, so as to address problems in society as a whole. This is relevant to our present problems. It is because the core issue may well be problems with our economic system … PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr LEUNG, please put your supplementary question directly. DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I am coming to it in my next sentence. Since the Chief Secretary is not here, I hope the two Secretaries will not simply work on their own. Can they work on an inter-bureau basis and propose to the Government that a riots, communities and victims panel be expeditiously established to comprehensively look into the present problems in Hong Kong? I am not saying that the authorities have to adopt my view immediately, but they must strive to work out a balanced proposal and find a new way forward to break the present economic and political deadlocks in our society now. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, I wish to reiterate the four measures mentioned by the Chief Executive when meeting the press on 5 September. In mentioning the fourth measure, she said that, after more than two months of social unrest―it had been two months at that time but it has been five months now―it is obvious to many of us that there are deep-seated conflicts and long-accumulated political,


economic and social issues, including the oft-mentioned housing and land supply, income distribution, social justice and mobility, and opportunities for our young people, as well as how the public could be fully engaged in the Government's decision-making. Hence, the Chief Executive also proposes the setting up of a dialogue platform for in-depth and direct discussion with us on these issues. She also mentioned that she will invite community leaders, professionals and academics to independently examine and review these deep-seated problems and to advise the Government on finding solutions. Over the past month, the Chief Executive has also expressed her wish to restore peace in society, by which time society will have the suitable conditions to address these issues. MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): President, Mr Paul TSE's main question is clear. He asked whether the Government had assessed the widespread anger among the people which had been triggered by the Government's proposed legislative amendments, and what measures it had in place to restore the confidence of the international community and members of the public in Hong Kong's future. But the Secretary's response is brief. He simply says that the Government will stop violence, curb disorder and restore peace and order. May I ask the Secretaries whether they have made a thorough assessment on the widespread anger among the people which has been triggered by the proposed legislative amendments? As Mr CHAN Chi-chuen clearly pointed out just now, the anger of the people originates from the Police's violence and indiscriminate arrests, as well as the Government's abandonment of a high degree of autonomy. But the Secretary did not respond to the five demands Mr CHAN Chi-chuen mentioned just now, neither did he respond to the proposal of establishing a panel that Dr Priscilla LEUNG put forth. Will the Secretaries tell the Chief Executive that the crux of the matter is that Carrie LAM and the responsible officials should step down? Will the Secretaries ask Carrie LAM when she and the responsible officials (including John LEE and Teresa CHENG) will assume responsibility and step down?


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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Which Secretary will answer? Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, the Government has already clearly expressed its stand towards these demands, including the five demands, and I have nothing to add. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered? MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Will he assess the impact of people's anger on the international community? Moreover, will he tell the Chief Executive that certain officials, including John LEE and Teresa CHENG, should take responsibility? Will he do that? PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, you may only put one supplementary question. However, just now, you put a number of questions and the Secretary already answered one of them. Mr Kenneth LAU, please ask your question. MR KENNETH LAU (in Cantonese): It is heart-breaking to see society deeply divided because of the opposition to amend the law concerning surrender of fugitive offenders. The Government seems rather helpless in face of the present political predicament … (Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung was speaking while standing up)


PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, if you are dissatisfied with the Secretary's reply, please follow up the matter on other occasions. MR KENNETH LAU (in Cantonese): … the Government seems rather helpless; and to date, there is still not any specific proposals that can restore peace in society. The Secretary mentioned in the main reply that the Chief Executive has just proposed a number of measures in the Policy Address to increase housing and land supply. It seems that the Government plans to use land and housing policies to resolve the present political issues. These measures include relaxing the loan-to-value ratio, invoking the Lands Resumption Ordinance to mandatorily resume brownfield sites, private land and squatter areas. May I ask the Secretaries: How will the Government ensure that the land resumption process will not trigger another strong division between the Government and the people? What measures does the Government have to protect the livelihood of tens of thousands of brownfield site operators? President, I declare that I own land in the New Territories. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Which Secretary will answer? Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, the Chief Executive has also mentioned in the Policy Address that Government will follow established procedures and existing ordinances when it resumes brownfield sites or adopts other means to increase land supply. Hence, we will conduct suitable consultation when such needs arise, and we will also take various aspects into consideration. We will strive to strike a balance when we need to resume such land in pursuit of policy objectives. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Fourth question.


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Supply of live pigs 4. MR WILSON OR (in Cantonese): President, in May this year, the operation of Sheung Shui Slaughterhouse ("SSSH") was suspended for several days on two occasions as some pig samples collected there had been tested positive for African Swine Fever ("ASF") virus, with the import of Mainland live pigs being suspended during such periods of time. It is learnt that since the resumption of the operation of the slaughterhouse on 6 June, the average daily number of live pigs imported from the Mainland has been below 1 700, which is way lower than last year's daily average of around 4 000. It has been reported that as live pigs imported from the Mainland account for more than 90% of the total live pig supply, and with demand outstripping supply, the auction price of live pigs and the retail price of fresh pork are substantially higher than the levels in the past. Furthermore, owing to the drop in the number of pigs slaughtered, there is a pressure for live pig delivery and slaughtering fees to rise. Therefore, the retail price of fresh pork might rise further. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it knows why the import of live pigs from the Mainland has not returned to the previous level since the resumption of the operation of SSSH; whether it has taken measures to make the import of live pigs restore to the previous level as soon as possible, e.g. discussing with the Mainland authorities the expansion of the list of registered pig farms on the Mainland for supply to Hong Kong and Macao, or considering the exploration of new sources of live pigs;

(2) whether it has assessed the impacts of the persistently high fresh

pork price on those industries related to live pigs, restaurants and members of the public; and

(3) whether it has taken new measures to prevent the contraction of ASF

by local and imported pigs, the contraction of diseases by pigs through cross-transmission in the slaughterhouses, and the outbreak of ASF in Hong Kong?


SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President,

(1) and (2)

Most of the live pigs supplied in Hong Kong come from the Mainland. Since May this year, the supply of live pigs from the Mainland has remained at a low level and the price of fresh pork has surged, thus affecting people's livelihood and operation of the trade. The Government is highly concerned about the situation and has been liaising closely with the Mainland authorities to reflect the desire of the trade and the public for increasing the supply.

The relevant Mainland authorities have strived to maintain a steady

supply of live pigs to Hong Kong. However, the production and supply of live pigs on the Mainland have also been affected by the outbreak of African Swine Fever ("ASF"). The latest figures released by the National Bureau of Statistics saw a drop in the overall supply of live pigs on the Mainland, with the number of pigs supplied to the market in the first three quarters this year and the number of pigs stocked at farm in end September recording a year-on-year decline of 17.3% and 28.5% respectively. The price of fresh pork has also increased on the Mainland. As estimated earlier by the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs, the supply of pork in the second half of this year will be further tightened.

As for the exploration of other sources of live pig supply, the trade

has earlier proposed importing live pigs from other countries (such as Thailand and South Korea). While the Government stands ready to explore the feasibility with and facilitate coordination among trades and stakeholders, we have to exercise caution as importation of live food animals entails public health and food safety considerations, and cases of ASF have successively occurred in many other countries.

The far-reaching implications of ASF for the supply of live pigs on

the Mainland and worldwide are gradually emerging. The Mainland authorities have introduced an array of measures to ensure


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a stable production and supply of live pigs. Under the current situation, we will continue to closely monitor the supply and price of live pigs, and maintain close liaison with the Mainland authorities. In addition, the Government announced in August this year a series of support measures for enterprises and members of the public, and some of these measures can ease the financial pressure on industries affected by ASF and the supply of live pigs. These measures include reducing rental by half for six months for stalls in public markets of the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department ("FEHD"), and waiving the licence fees for fresh provision shops, slaughterhouses and pig farms for a year.

(3) ASF virus is tough and fast-spreading and there is currently no

vaccine or medication available. Therefore, to ensure a steady supply of live pigs in the long run, the most important task at present is to keep up with our efforts in epidemic prevention.

Owing to the occurrence of two ASF cases in Hong Kong in May

this year, preventive measures have been further strengthened. Among them, the Government has imposed a daily clearance arrangement in slaughterhouses, which means all live pigs will be slaughtered within 24 hours upon admittance into the slaughterhouses, having taken into account the views of local and overseas experts and with the support of the trade. Under the new arrangement, lairages in different areas of the slaughterhouses will be cleared out and undergo thorough cleansing and disinfection every day. Given the short stay of pigs in the slaughterhouses, which undergo thorough cleansing and disinfection daily, the risk of ASF spreading in Hong Kong has been largely minimized. The implementation of the arrangement is smooth so far. We will continue to ensure that the daily clearance arrangement is sustained and followed through. In addition, the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department ("AFCD") will continue to ensure that biosecurity measures are properly adopted at local pig farms and carry out active surveillance on the farms through regular inspections. If pigs are suspected to be infected, AFCD will


conduct disease investigation and collect samples for testing. There are no suspected cases found in Hong Kong so far.

At the second meeting of the standing group of experts on ASF

organized by the World Organisation for Animal Health and the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations in July this year, the attending experts regarded that each region should take its own unique situation into consideration, such as the stocking density, demand and supply of live pigs etc., to formulate practical and effective measures and policies. Given that the local slaughterhouses have already implemented the daily clearance arrangement, the experts considered that the possibilities of infection and spread of virus to pigs in Hong Kong has been largely minimized. Therefore, if an ASF case occurs in a local slaughterhouse again, the closure of the slaughterhouse and mass culling of other pigs are not necessary. The Government has thus updated the contingency plans, and put them into practice when an ASF case was found in Sheung Shui Slaughterhouse in early September this year. The impact on the public and stakeholders was greatly lessened.

The Government will continue to closely monitor the development

of the outbreak, refine the preventive measures, and liaise with different parties, striving to lower the risk of spreading disease and maintain steady supply of live pigs, thereby minimizing the impact on the public and stakeholders. As for the public, we will continue to disseminate the message that ASF will not be transmitted to human and remind the public to cook the pork well before consumption.

MR WILSON OR (in Cantonese): President, simply put, the Secretary has not responded to the question on how to increase supply in her reply just now. President, clothing, food, housing and transport all closely concern members of the public in Hong Kong. As we know, the pork price has now reached over HK$4,100 per picul, which is more than double that of last year, and 95% of live


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pigs are imported from the Mainland, the retail price of which is over $100 per catty at present. I like shopping at wet markets very much, but I always hear bitter complaints from stall owners and local residents whenever I get there. To be honest, the Government is dealing with this problem merely in a piecemeal manner without foresight. President, may I further ask the Secretary whether the Government has actually conducted any study or analysis on the epidemic trend of the disease in the next five years? What will the Government do to remove the restrictions related to its policies to create more room for manoeuvre in helping the community and minimizing the impact that the shortage of live pig supply brings to the community? SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr OR for the supplementary question. The Government is highly concerned about the shortage of live pig supply. As mentioned by Mr OR, over 90% of live pigs are supplied by the Mainland where the epidemic of ASF is serious at present. Under such circumstances, the domestic pork supply in the Mainland has also been affected and there has been a surge in the price. On the one hand, we will closely liaise with the Mainland to convey the request of the trade in Hong Kong that the Mainland supply can expeditiously return to the previous level. Now, the Mainland authorities have actually continued its supply, but, of course, the quantity has yet returned to the previous level. On the other hand, the Government has also considered the proposal for importing live pigs from other countries. The Government always stands ready to explore the feasibility of this proposal with the trade and relevant stakeholders, but when it comes to importation of livestock, as I also mentioned just now, we need to implement a series of epidemic prevention measures and take public health and safety issues into consideration. In the time ahead, we will closely monitor the situation around the world because ASF does not affect Hong Kong and the Mainland alone. Many other countries, especially those in our neighbourhood, have confirmed outbreaks of ASF. Therefore, in this respect, while we do not have a crystal ball to foretell


the future, we will continue to liaise with the relevant international organizations and other countries to keep in view the development of the disease. MS YUNG HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): President, in these days, pork has become a luxurious food item because a catty of pork costs nearly $100, which is indeed unaffordable to many people. The total supply of live pigs in September 2019 is the lowest of the year, with the daily supply standing at 1 731 heads. But actually, 3 800 to 4 000 live pigs are needed daily. In her reply to a Member's supplementary question, the Secretary indicated that consideration could be given to importing live pigs from other countries. I see that the local supply of live pigs also hit an annual low in September. Has the Government ever considered doing something to support local pig farmers in order to increase the local supply of live pigs? If this is done together with importation of live pigs from other countries, the situation will be much better. May I ask the Secretary what the Government is actually doing at the moment regarding importation of live pigs from other countries and increasing the local supply of live pigs? SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): I thank Ms YUNG Hoi-yan for the supplementary question. In fact, regarding importation of live pigs from other countries, as I mentioned just now, if any stakeholder is interested in it, we will explore its feasibility. What is more, our colleagues have sought information about the general conditions of the local pig farms in other countries and their biochemical tests. All along, we have been seeking information in relation to this proposal and have adopted an open attitude towards it. As for the local pig farms, in fact, the Government has been asked whether it would reconsider relaxing the limit on the licensed rearing capacity prescribed under the pig farming licences, so as to increase the local supply of live pigs. In fact, as we all know, following the rapid urbanization of Hong Kong, the environmental pollution and public health problems associated with pig farming have caused a lot of concerns. For this reason, the Government introduced the voluntary surrender scheme for pig farms and the ex-gratia payment scheme in 2006 to encourage pig farmers to voluntarily cease their operation. Of course, if


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we look at some figures, we can see that there is still room for increasing the rearing capacity under the existing policy framework as the 43 licensed pig farms in Hong Kong at present have a total maximum rearing capacity of some 74 000 pigs while the number of pigs that they now rear totals about 61 000. At present, the Government does not have any plan to change the policy of limiting the number of pig farms and the total licensed rearing capacity. Also, there still exists a gap between the existing total licensed rearing capacity and the actual rearing capacity. MR STEVEN HO (in Cantonese): President, I understand that members of the public have strong opinions on the surge in pork prices. Based on their understanding, they will focus on whether the Government can increase the number of imported live pigs. We, too, can see this point. I observed that the SAR Government does not have any tactics for increasing the number of live pigs imported from overseas or the local supply of pigs for the time being. As a government, it should let the public know the severity of the ASF epidemic and the shortage of pig supply which they are now facing. Firstly, the SAR Government should inform Hong Kong people of the epidemic situation on the Mainland or the severity of the shortage of pig supply. Just now, in her main reply, the Secretary only mentioned that the number of pigs supplied to the market in the first three quarters this year and the number of pigs stocked at farm in end September had recorded a year-on-year decline of 17.3% and 28.5% respectively. Actually, this fails to reflect the current number of live pigs stocked at farm on the Mainland. I hope that the SAR Government can tell Hong Kong people how serious the situation is. For example, the disclosure of the difference between the pig feed consumption last year and that of this year will give a full picture of the change in the number of pigs. This is simply the same as the case of a family where the bowls of rice consumed will reflect the size of the family. This is the first point. Secondly, I wish to ask the SAR Government about the issue concerning the rearing capacity of local pig farms which was mentioned just now. To me, the approach adopted by the SAR Government runs counter to the policy of the Central Government. As indicated by the Central Government, the prevention and control of ASF is a prolonged battle, but the SAR Government has not told


Hong Kong people how long this tight supply of live pigs will persist. As far as I know, the shortage in supply―or the situation that the supply has not returned to its original level―is likely to persist at least over five years. As we know, it takes a very long time for a pig farm to raise pigs from scratch, the process of which involves the breeding of male and female pigs, and for pig farmers to regain their confidence in rearing pigs. Over the past year, the Central Government rolled out, at least three times, new policies including tax concessions and loans to support the livestock farming industry. But as I can see, many a time, the responses given by the SAR Government are simply that it will effectively implement the daily clearance arrangement and prohibit the feeding of pigs with food waste by amending the licensing condition under the livestock keeping licence, but its supporting policies are few and far between. Now, the Finance Committee ("FC") has not yet been able to handle the Government's funding applications in relation to the trade, such as the provision of statutory compensation for pig owners affected by ASF and the reservation of $20 million to cope with the expenses possibly arising from that. All these funding applications are still stuck in FC. I would like to know, in face of the many questions I just raised, whether the SAR Government have any supporting policy which is really targeted at the local pig rearing industry? The Secretary just said the existing licensed rearing capacity would not be increased. Of course, I know there is shortage of land in Hong Kong, but why is it not possible to increase the licensed rearing capacity? Why can the Government not identify new sites and do some new planning? Have the authorities ever communicated with the Development Bureau? SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): I thank Mr Steven HO for his supplementary question and information. The Government will definitely continue to closely monitor the overall situation of ASF, and will maintain continuous communication with the Mainland authorities, in the hope that some of the pig farms will be able to increase the supply of pigs upon improvement of the ASF epidemic situation on the Mainland. As the pig farms affected by the outbreak of ASF on the Mainland has only resumed their supply of live pigs after a period of suspension, if it has come to our knowledge that any of them can increase their supply, we will communicate with the Mainland authorities and express our wish to have more live pigs supplied to Hong Kong.


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Regarding the local situation at present, as I just mentioned, on the one hand, there is still room for increasing the actual pig rearing capacity as compared with the total licensed rearing capacity under the existing policy. Certainly, we will gauge the need of the trade first before considering how to increase the total licensed rearing capacity under the existing framework. As for support measures, just now I also mentioned that there would be rental reduction for stalls in public markets of FEHD, and a one-year waiver of licence fees for fresh provision shops, slaughterhouses and pig farms. All these are preliminary support measures. The Government will closely monitor the development of the disease and continue to communicate closely with the trade and Mr HO. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HO, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered? Actually, you have asked a number of questions. MR STEVEN HO (in Cantonese): I know, but there is one point which I hope the Secretary can clarify. She stated that there was a gap between the actual pig rearing capacity and the original licensed rearing capacity under the livestock keeping licences. But this is due to the limit on pig rearing capacity prescribed under the licences concerned. Even if the limit is exceeded by just one pig, the pig farmer concerned is still required to slaughter the pig automatically, thus creating a gap between the actual rearing capacity and the licensed rearing capacity. I hope that the Government will take note of this point. MS ALICE MAK (in Cantonese): President, as mentioned by Mr Steven HO just now, if we understand the way the live pig supply chain operates, we will know that in the short term, the supply of live pigs in Hong Kong will not return to the previous level and the number of live pigs supplied will decrease in the future unless there are more sources of live pig supply. Certainly, having other sources of live pig supply does not imply that pork prices will become affordable, because live pigs from other sources are not necessarily cheaper than those supplied to Hong Kong at present. Perhaps, another solution is to identify sites for developing the pig rearing industry as suggested by Mr Steven HO.


The decrease in live pig supply has affected the pork prices. Some local residents told me that they only needed a few dozens of dollars to buy pork for cooking soup in the past, but it would now cost them a hundred dollars or so. The shortage of live pig supply has not only imposed a heavier burden on the public, but also significantly affected the livelihood of workers in the pork industry, particularly those slaughter workers as their wages are based on the number of pigs they slaughtered. When there is a decrease in the number of live pigs supplied, it will directly result in a reduction in their income. At present, some workers in the pork industry are facing the problems of underemployment and income reduction. May I ask the Secretary how the authorities will help workers of the pork industry to tide over this difficult time? As we can anticipate that live pig supply will not be able to return to the previous level in the near future, that means workers in the pork industry will have to continue living on a tight budget for a rather long period of time. Secretary, what will the authorities do to help these workers in the pork industry? How will the authorities ensure that there will not be manpower wastage in the relevant industry after this difficult period and the attractiveness of the industry to newcomers will remain unaffected in the future? SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): I thank Ms Alice MAK for the supplementary question. Under the present circumstances, both the public and the trade have been affected. Concerning the public, we noticed that there were some adjustments in the market. For example, the supply of chilled pork imported from the Mainland since May has increased by almost 60% as compared to the supply before May. To a certain extent, this has made up for the shortage of fresh pork supply. Also, I understand the problems facing the relevant workers as mentioned by Ms MAK. The existing support measures of the Government mainly focus on reducing the rentals or waiving the relevant licence fees for stall owners and pig farms. We will continue to closely monitor the development of the epidemic while maintaining communication with Ms MAK to see what we can do to help. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Fifth question.


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Legislation and measures for protecting children 5. MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): In the past decade, the annual numbers of newly reported child abuse cases stood at around 1 000. Yet, among such cases, the annual numbers of neglect cases showed an upward trend. Regarding the law and measures for protecting children, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) given that a sub-committee of the Law Reform Commission conducted earlier on a three-month public consultation on the introduction of a new criminal offence of "failure to protect a child or vulnerable person where the child's or vulnerable person's death or serious harm results from an unlawful act or neglect", whether the Government has drawn up the relevant legislative timetable and, before such legislation is enacted, what interim measures are in place to step up the protection of children from high risk families;

(2) given that young persons aged 15 or above may be lawfully

employed, but some parents dare not leave their children aged below 16 unattended at home for fear of committing the offence of "ill-treatment or neglect by those in charge of child or young person" under section 27 of the Offences against the Person Ordinance, resulting in such children wandering in the streets all day long and running the risk of going astray, whether the Government will review the said provision and lower the age ceiling for the children who are subject to this provision, to dovetail with the actual situation; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and

(3) given that the number of cases of psychological abuse of children

received by a concern group in the last financial year more than doubled the figure of the year before, but no relevant offence is provided under the existing legislation, whether the Government will enact legislation in this regard; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; of the details of the immediate and long-term treatments currently provided for the relevant child victims?


SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, the Government attaches great importance to the well-being of children and firmly believes that every child has a right to protection against harm and abuse. Effective child protection is premised on close collaboration, mutual trust and care for the well-being of children amongst stakeholders of multi-disciplinary professionals. The Government will continue to allocate resources to enhance child protection. In consultation with the Security Bureau, the Hong Kong Police Force, the Social Welfare Department ("SWD") and the Secretariat of the Law Reform Commission ("LRC"), I provide a consolidated reply to the Member's question as follows:

(1) The Causing or Allowing the Death of a Child or Vulnerable Adult Sub-committee ("the Sub-committee") of LRC is conducting a review on causing or allowing the death or serious harm of a child or vulnerable adult. A public consultation on the proposed new offence of "failure to protect" has been conducted from May to August this year. It is understood that the Sub-committee would collate and consider carefully the views collected from the public consultation with a view to submitting the final recommendations to LRC as soon as practicable.

The offence of "failure to protect" as mentioned in the public

consultation paper by the Sub-committee involves an extensive range of complicated issues that warrant further and careful considerations, including different options for addressing the problem, responsibilities and rights of different parties, public interest, social consensus and preference, and whether legislation is an effective means to solve the problem and achieve the desired effect. The Government will keep in view closely LRC's review and its final recommendations, and upon receipt of its final report, carefully consider the recommendations therein.

Relevant government bureaux and departments have adopted various

measures to prevent child abuse and provide the necessary services for the abused children and their families. On the specific


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procedures for handling child abuse and suspected cases, SWD has, in collaboration with relevant government departments, non-governmental organizations ("NGOs") and professionals, drawn up the Procedural Guide for Handling Child Abuse Cases ("the Procedural Guide"), with a view to safeguarding the interests of children and protecting those children suspected or found to be abused. The Procedural Guide also provides guidance on cooperation among different professionals, including personnel engaged in social, health and education services as well as law enforcement. To further enhance the cooperation among government departments and relevant stakeholder bodies, SWD has formed a task group with representatives from relevant government departments and NGOs for reviewing the current version of the Procedural Guide. The draft of the revised version was issued and views of the sector were sought from July to September this year. The review is expected to be completed by the end of 2019.

(2) There are a number of existing laws in Hong Kong that protect the

well-being of children. With different focuses and legislative considerations, they have set different age ceilings for children under the applicable provisions according to different purposes of the relevant legislations.

For example, the Offences against the Person Ordinance (Cap. 212)

stipulates that any person who unlawfully abandons or exposes any child, being under the age of two years, whereby the life of such child is endangered, or the health of such a child is or is likely to be permanently injured; or any person who wilfully assaults, ill-treats, neglects, abandons or exposes such a child or young person under the age of 16 years under his custody, charge or care in a manner likely to cause such a child or young person unnecessary suffering or injury to his health shall be guilty of a criminal offence. Whether leaving a child unattended at home will constitute an offence under the above legislation depends on a number of factors and has to be assessed on a case-by-case basis, including the child's age and self-care abilities, whether the act has caused harm to the child, whether the person involved has a responsibility of care over the child, and whether the


person has intentionally neglected the child and is aware of the possible harm to the child caused by his act. The existing arrangement for addressing cases involving children being left unattended at home has the enough and necessary flexibility to allow the authorities handling the cases to suitably consider various relevant factors. The Government has no plan to review the upper age limit of the relevant legislation at this stage.

(3) The number of reported cases of psychological abuse of children and

the percentage of such cases over the total number of child abuse cases have been relatively low. The Child Protection Registry of SWD recorded a total of 5 and 11 cases of psychological abuse of children, accounting for about 0.5% and 1.0% of the total number of the newly reported child abuse cases in 2017 and 2018 respectively. One possible reason of the relatively low rates is that psychological abuse generally refers to a carer's prolonged and repeated negative behaviours and/or attitudes towards a child; and since such abusive behaviours persist for a relatively long period of time and are less obvious, they are less identifiable than other child abuse cases in general. The caseworker needs to be observant, sensitive and attentive to the child's situation for a long period and obtain the child's trust to enable early identification and intervention for suspected cases of child abuse. Nonetheless, the existing multi-disciplinary child protection mechanism already covers the protection of children from psychological abuse. If a relevant staff member (e.g. a school staff member who has frequent contact with the child) suspects that a child has suffered from psychological abuse, he/she may, in accordance with the Procedural Guide, refer the case to a social worker in charge to conduct investigation and hold a Multi-disciplinary Case Conference on Protection of Child with Suspected Abuse to devise a follow-up plan for the abused child and his/her family.

SWD will continue to adopt a multi-pronged approach to

strengthening various child care services and providing appropriate support for children and families in need. For example, social workers of the Family and Child Protective Services Units


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("FCPSUs") under SWD provide comprehensive follow-up services for child abuse cases, including regular visits, counselling (such as emotional management and parenting skills), financial assistance and referrals for psychological counselling services. Where necessary, the social workers will arrange foster care or residential care services for the affected children to ensure that their well-being is protected. Apart from casework counselling, social workers of FCPSUs also provide group counselling and developmental programmes for affected children and their families to help them overcome the negative impact of the incident, enhance their individual and family resilience, and develop positive self-confidence as well as interpersonal and family relationship, etc. In addition, the 65 Integrated Family Service Centres and the two Integrated Services Centres operated by SWD and NGOs provide a range of services to strengthen families' capability in caring for children and help parents improve the care quality.

The Government will continue to consider on a need basis enhancing

the social work service in pre-primary institutions as well as public sector primary and secondary schools, and the social work manpower of FCPSUs for early identification of children at risk of abuse, and provide multi-disciplinary support and handle suspected abuse cases in accordance with the Procedural Guide.

MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, in the past few months, I have often seen many parents participate in illegal assemblies with their infants or young children, and children were seen at the scene of some riots. I consider this very dangerous and these are suspected child abuse cases. I hope the Secretary will advise parents not to do so. President, in its report published recently on the issue of child abuse, the Office of The Ombudsman made a recommendation to the Government that it should explore the feasibility of mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse cases. I would like to ask the Secretary: Will the Government enact legislation for this purpose, and put in place a relevant mechanism or administrative measures for the protection of children?


SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, I thank the Member for the supplementary question. We note the content of the direct investigation report on child abuse. In the main reply given just now, I have also mentioned the consultation exercise conducted by LRC in this respect. We will make reference to the report to be submitted by LRC, carefully look at the information obtained from various parties, and then seriously consider the subject. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms QUAT, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered? MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): As it takes time to enact legislation, I asked the Secretary just now whether the Bureau will first put in place a relevant mechanism or administrative measures, because there is no knowing how many years we will have to wait before legislation can be enacted for the establishment of a mandatory reporting mechanism. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): You have already pointed out the part of your supplementary question that has not been answered. Secretary, do you have anything to add? SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, the issue itself is extremely controversial, and we need to explore how we should handle the matter to achieve the intended purpose without producing negative effects. Therefore, we would very much like to wait until a report is submitted by LRC and the necessary information is available before considering the issue further. MR IP KIN-YUEN (in Cantonese): President, abusive acts against children may not necessarily be committed by family members. The Government may become an abuser when, for example, there is an abusive use of child protection orders.


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On 29 August, three minors were arrested in Sham Shui Po by the Police, and applications were made to the court for child protection orders. As a result, the three minors were required to stay at children's homes when the new school term started in September. They were not only forced to separate from their families but also deprived of the right to attend school. A young girl among them was even forced to spend 27 days at a children's home. The three minors come from healthy and harmonious families, and they all perform very well at school. There was completely no need to send them to children's homes at the outset. More ridiculously, they have not been charged with any offence by the Police so far after they were released. Detaining innocent children for a long period of time and depriving them of their right to unite with their families as well as their right to schooling is tantamount to using child protection orders to abuse children. President, I would like to ask the Government: Given that both the Police and SWD play a very important gatekeeping role in the use of child protection orders, how will the authorities ensure that there will not be any abuse use of child protection orders in the future? SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, there have been relevant discussions in society, and the Government is very concerned about this issue. SWD will maintain communication with the Police and the Security Bureau regarding the relevant work, in the hope that such arrangements for applying for orders for the protection of children can genuinely correspond to the actual needs of children and the wishes of their families. DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): The reply given by the Secretary just now to Mr IP Kin-yuen's supplementary question is completely unacceptable, because there has obviously been an abusive use of child protection orders by the Police, thus further subjecting the arrestees to the abuse of police powers. I would like to ask the Secretary: Has he really approached frontline social workers to gain an understanding about whether there was obviously a rising and deteriorating trend of domestic violence and child abuse cases over the past two months?


I have received a lot of cases of request for assistance and many children, be they participants of street protests or not, have been faced with suppression or abuse at home at varying degrees of seriousness. For example, they were not provided with meals and their school fees were not paid. These are just minor problems. More seriously, subsequent to being arrested, some children were locked up at home by their parents, and not allowed to go out, even to school. Due to the damage done by the proposal to amend the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance, numerous Hong Kong families are shattered. There are only cases of abuse of violence between Mainland and Hong Kong family members, but also cases involving many families where young wives and children were battered. I would like to ask the Secretary: Has he taken initiative to understand how serious is the damage done to Hong Kong families by the storm provoked by the Government's proposed amendments to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance? Does the Government have any measures to help members of these families mend their relationship? SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, when such extremely controversial incidents occurred in society, families will often be subjected to immense pressure. Such being the case, SWD has already liaised with the social welfare sector (especially service providers) a few months ago to explore the introduction of special interim measures to flexibly cope with the existing workload, particularly in providing youngsters with various kinds of support they need at present. Hence, with regard to youth service and family service units, we will handle the issue of service outputs with flexibility according to needs for quality assurance. We have already provided additional resources for the provision of certain services, including the setting up of 24-hour emotional support hotlines to provide assistance to emotionally disturbed youngsters. As Members may be aware, we have advanced the implementation of the measure of "two school social workers for each secondary school" during the summer holidays with a view to assisting secondary school students who are emotionally disturbed. Besides, there is another measure which is less heard of, i.e. the provision of additional resources to NGOs for operating cross-district overnight outreach services to provide


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immediate services to students and youngsters in need. In response to recent incidents, we also consider that it is necessary to extend the upper age limit for targets of youth services from 24 to 29. MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): President, when it comes to the policy on protection of children, it should be noted that a number of dead body found cases and cases of death of unknown cause have been reported in the press and social media in recent months. It has also been pointed out that since June this year, the number of the so-called suspected suicide cases is as high as over 300, and many of them involved children and youngsters. Some of these cases involved people falling from heights and dead bodies found floating on the sea, which have aroused grave public concern and queries that they are related to the "ant-extradition to China" movement. In some cases, dead bodies have been found with the head being covered with a plastic bag and hands being tied, and a naked body has even been found at sea. I would like to ask the Secretary: Have you reviewed these suspicious cases personally? Do you understand the grave distress and concern among members of the public over such cases? SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, we absolutely do not wish to see any suicide case in society. Such incidents have occurred incessantly in Hong Kong in the past. In this connection, we have specifically done a lot of work in the prevention of youth suicides over a year ago, with a view to reducing the number of such cases. I would also like to urge members of different sectors of the community not to play up the issue of suicide, because this will have a contagious effect and may lead to many more tragedies. Hence, I hope all of us would act in accordance with this principle in this respect. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?


MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): Has the Secretary reviewed such cases personally, and will he instruct the government departments concerned to comprehensively review and investigate these cases? PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add? SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, there are established mechanisms to handle such work. MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): President, it is everyone's responsibility to protect children and youngsters. Recently, we can see youngsters and even children who are of a younger age take part in violent attacks, and the situation is really heartbreaking. As the Bureau Director responsible for implementing the policy on protection of children and in the face of such a situation, I would like to ask the Secretary: Apart from asking frontline units to enhance provision of services as mentioned just now, has he personally met with the youngest protesters arrested? As it has been reported that the youngest arrestees are only 12 years of age, has the Secretary tried to gain an understanding of the reasons behind their participation in street protests and their family background? It should be noted that the current disturbances have already brought a very great impact to schools, secondary and primary schools alike. Has the Secretary promoted within the Bureau the setting up of a special working group to examine ways to protect children, and assigned officers to conduct visits to schools to communicate with youngsters of different backgrounds, in order to understand their psychological condition at present and provide further protection to children? SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, as I have pointed out in my reply given just now, efforts have been made to enhance various kinds of existing services. Moreover, the Government will be more than


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happy to offer assistance and provide additional resources to any social service organizations which are faced with different problems and consider there is a need to do some extra work. I also have plans to visit some service units, and meet with some youngsters who may have been affected, in the hope to understand their situation. I also hope that these visits can be strengthened in the future, as they can promote first-hand experiences. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms LEE, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered? MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): The supplementary question I raised just now is: Will the Secretary promote within the Government the setting up of a crisis management team to provide support to students and children? As we can see, more and more children are emotionally affected now, and there is also a trend that more and more children are taking part in violent attacks. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add? SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, under the existing mechanism, for example, when a case of this nature has been found at schools, the matter will be referred to a dedicated crisis management team. As far as the policy aspect is concerned, the Government will definitely keep the current work progress closely in view, and evaluate if effective assistance can genuinely be provided to youngsters in need. MR SHIU KA-FAI (in Cantonese): Secretary, there should be no problem with leaving an adult unattended at home, but if a child is left unattended at home, his or her parents will be charged with the offence of child neglect because children need to be given special care, is that right?


In the current controversy over the proposed amendments to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance, I can see on the front line the presence of many young persons and even children around 11 years of age only among police officers and protesters. My question is: If a child is brought to the front line or encouraged to stay on the front line and gets hurt, will prosecution be instituted under the existing legislation against the persons who bring the child to the front line or encourage the child to stay on the front line, be they the parents, friends, relatives or teachers? SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, with regard to this legal question, I may not be the appropriate person to offer an answer. However, to my understanding, any person who abets or aids the commission by another person of any offence shall also be guilty of a criminal offence. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr SHIU, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered? MR SHIU KA-FAI (in Cantonese): President, under the relevant statutory requirements, any person who leaves a child unattended at home is liable to the offence of child neglect. Such being the case, should it also be an offence of child neglect to knowingly bring a child to a dangerous place? PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr SHIU, I think the Secretary has already answered your supplementary question. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Last oral question.


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Development of general hospitals 6. MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): At present, the North Lantau Hospital ("NLH") is not a general hospital, making it necessary for quite a number of Tung Chung residents to travel a long distance to seek consultation at the Princess Margaret Hospital. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council if it knows:

(1) the criteria adopted by the Hospital Authority ("HA") for determining the need to develop a non-general hospital into a general one, and the existing general hospitals in the various districts across the territory;

(2) whether HA has plans to develop NLH into a general hospital, so as

to meet the incessantly increasing healthcare needs of Tung Chung brought about by its population growth; and

(3) whether HA has plans to introduce new specialist outpatient services

at NLH in the coming five years; if so, the details? SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, below is my reply to the various parts of the question raised by Mr Holden CHOW:

(1) The Hospital Authority ("HA") plans its services on a cluster basis. In planning and developing various public health care services, HA takes into account a number of factors, including the projected demand for health care services based on population growth and demographic changes, advancement of medical technology, manpower situation as well as the service arrangement in each cluster and hospital. HA monitors the utilization of its various health care services and updates the service demand projection regularly according to the population projection across different districts in Hong Kong and development plan of the Government for the purpose of planning public health care services.


Due to the development of service models, some HA hospitals provide specific specialist services, while hospitals providing general hospital services are planned via a cluster-based approach. The roles of different hospitals within a cluster are clearly defined, enabling collaboration and mutual support among hospitals, so as to ensure that patients would receive a continuum of health care services within the same geographical setting and throughout their episode of illness―from its acute phase to convalescence and rehabilitation, and community care after discharge. The existing general hospitals in each HA cluster are set out in the Annex.

(2) and (3) HA formulated the Clinical Services Plan ("CSP") for the Kowloon

West Cluster in 2019. CSP maps out the cluster's clinical strategies and future service directions in meeting the long-term health care needs of the community, which include examining the role and positioning of the North Lantau Hospital ("NLH") in the Kowloon West Cluster, NLH's expansion project and its service scope. Based on the planning principles of CSP, services provided by various clinical specialties of the Princess Margaret Hospital ("PMH"), Caritas Medical Centre, Yan Chai Hospital, NLH and Kwai Chung Hospital will be organized in a cluster-based service network so as to provide equitable, timely, suitable and quality medical services for residents of different catchment areas of the cluster.

According to the aforementioned CSP, NLH is positioned as a

general hospital and has been progressively providing specialist services such as Emergency Medicine, Medicine, Surgery, Orthopaedics and Traumatology, Gynaecology, Paediatrics and Psychiatry since its service commissioning in 2013. NLH provides 24-hour emergency and extended care services mainly for Tung Chung residents. It also operates an Emergency Medicine Ward and provides ambulatory surgical service, day rehabilitation service, specialist outpatient clinic service as well as general outpatient clinic service. Outpatient and ambulatory services will be available in a


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number of specialties to enhance ambulatory care. To provide more comprehensive services, NLH has commenced gynaecology specialist outpatient service in early October 2019, and will enhance paediatric outpatient service in order to meet the local service demand. New model of medical-social collaboration and community support programme will also be piloted in NLH. HA will keep monitoring the needs of local residents for service planning.

In the long run, we preliminarily plan to embark on the second-phase

development of NLH using the adjoining reserved site under the second 10-year Hospital Development Plan ("HDP"), with a view to providing additional beds and meeting the long-term demands of local residents for health care services.

Annex

Existing general hospitals in each cluster of HANote

Cluster Hospital Hong Kong East Cluster Pamela Youde Nethersole Eastern Hospital

Ruttonjee Hospital Tang Shiu Kin Hospital Tung Wah Eastern Hospital Wong Chuk Hang Hospital Cheshire Home (Chung Hom Kok) St. John Hospital

Hong Kong West Cluster Queen Mary Hospital Grantham Hospital Tung Wah Hospital TWGHs Fung Yiu King Hospital The Duchess of Kent Children's Hospital at Sandy Bay MacLehose Medical Rehabilitation Centre Tsan Yuk Hospital


Cluster Hospital Kowloon Central Cluster Queen Elizabeth Hospital

Kwong Wah Hospital Kowloon Hospital Hong Kong Buddhist Hospital Our Lady of Maryknoll Hospital TWGHs Wong Tai Sin Hospital

Kowloon East Cluster United Christian Hospital Tseung Kwan O Hospital Haven of Hope Hospital

Kowloon West Cluster Princess Margaret Hospital North Lantau Hospital Caritas Medical Centre Yan Chai Hospital

New Territories East Cluster

Prince of Wales Hospital Shatin Hospital Cheshire Home (Shatin) Bradbury Hospice Alice Ho Miu Ling Nethersole Hospital North District Hospital Tai Po Hospital

New Territories West Cluster

Tuen Mun Hospital Pok Oi Hospital Tin Shui Wai Hospital

Note: There is no official definition and criteria for general hospitals under HA's service planning. The general hospitals listed above broadly refer to non-specialist hospitals under HA. MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary's reply is disappointing and, in my view, also misleading. My question asks whether the authorities will upgrade NLH to a general hospital. But the Secretary said in her reply that NLH can be regarded as a general hospital, and that the majority of hospitals in Hong Kong as set out in the Annex are general hospitals.


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Nevertheless, if Members read the footnote carefully, they will realize that the authorities do not have any official definition and criteria regarding general hospitals. Based on such a reply given by the Secretary, I will say that the authorities actually need not do anything at all. President, I urge the Secretary to stop playing language tricks. I hope the Secretary can tell us categorically whether the authorities plan to upgrade NLH to a general hospital which provides comprehensive specialist services just like PMH, so as to spare Tung Chung residents the need to travel all the way to PMH in order to receive treatment under various specialist disciplines. My supplementary question is very clear. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr Holden CHOW for the supplementary question. HA hospitals are categorized mainly into general hospitals and specialist hospitals. Children's hospitals, eye hospitals and also psychiatric hospitals (such as Siu Lam Hospital) are specialist hospitals, whereas other hospitals are designated as general hospitals according to the planning of HA. Mr CHOW's earlier supplementary question mainly asked about the services provided by the authorities. There are different arrangements for the hospitals in the seven clusters of HA. Speaking of NLH, for example, it belongs to the Kowloon West Cluster. When drawing up service planning, the cluster will coordinate various services within the cluster to ensure the appropriate and effective provision of integrated health care services to patients seeking treatment from various hospitals in the cluster. The roles, positioning and facilities of hospitals in various clusters differ from one to another. This is HA's general development direction for various clusters. In the case of NLH, as I said in the main reply, it mainly provides Tung Chung residents with 24-hour emergency and extended care services. The extended care services also include the provision of various specialist services and hospital beds.


Looking ahead, Members invariably hope that the authorities can increase the number of hospital beds. Honestly, this is also a plan of the authorities. Regarding the future development of NLH, we have drawn up a plan for its second-phase development to enhance its service provision. We are aware of the keen demand for health care services, so the authorities have already earmarked a site adjacent to NLH for use under its second-phase development and will expeditiously commence work in this respect. MS CHAN HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary talked about the positioning of NLH as a general hospital just now. But Mr Holden CHOW raised a very important point, that is, local residents did not have this feeling. The authorities have developed this hardware facility and gradually provided services since 2013. But its accident and emergency ("A&E") department was unable to provide 24-hour services during the early days after the commissioning of the hospital. In my view, the main reason is the serious shortage of health care manpower. As a result, even if this new general hospital has been set up, it is unable to provide comprehensive services. Here is my supplementary question. Just now, the Secretary talked specifically about the second HDP. The plan covers many large hospitals which are also general hospitals, and it includes the redevelopment of PMH, Tuen Mun Hospital and Queen Elizabeth Hospital and also the expansion of NLH. It is expected that the number of hospital beds can be increased by 3 000 to 4 000. My question is specifically about the redevelopment of Queen Elizabeth Hospital in the Kowloon Central Cluster. From the authorities' plan, I fail to see any clear approach that the authorities will adopt in order to play catch-up for the supply of health care manpower. Besides, in the days to come, the authorities need to cope with the redevelopment or expansion plans involving various large general hospitals. May I ask how the Secretary can convince me that it will not degenerate into a mere figure on the paper? How can the authorities truly provide a large number of additional hospital beds and recruit a large number of health care personnel, so as to cope with the redevelopment or expansion of various general hospitals?


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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms CHAN, your supplementary question has digressed from the scope of the main question. MS CHAN HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): President, the two questions are both about general hospitals. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add? SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I thank Ms CHAN Hoi-yan for the supplementary question. Generally speaking, HA plans its services on a cluster basis. Regarding the issues mentioned by Ms CHAN just now, such as population growth, changes in population structure and also service demand, manpower is certainly one of our considerations. The arrangements for any newly-built hospitals are to be implemented in phases. First, this can enable hospitals to move on to different stages of development progressively. Second, manpower is another issue. Whether speaking of doctors, nurses or other allied health professionals, there is a shortage of manpower at present. So, we must undertake hospital redevelopment or other projects, so that more hospital beds can be provided when new hospitals commence operation. This explains why the relevant projects cannot be brought to a halt. I say so because many people hope that we can implement such projects as soon as possible. Ms CHAN's assertion is also correct. Speaking of manpower planning, our efforts have been ongoing. Apart from making constant projections of manpower changes and demand, the authorities will also examine ways to increase manpower especially for the public sector. Doctors, nurses and other allied health professionals who graduate locally are certainly our cornerstone. A review of the past 10 years shows that the number of local health care students has increased by almost 60%. From this, Members can see that the authorities will continue to increase the relevant manpower. Besides, training is likewise


very important. If the authorities merely keep increasing the number of graduates without providing training, we will not be able to dovetail with service demand. Furthermore, the wastage rate of HA's manpower is also high, so HA has already planned a series of measures to retain talents. As Members may remember, the Budget announced in February has particularly earmarked resources for HA to retain talents. Besides, the Food and Health Bureau has also set up a platform, so that stakeholders in different medical disciplines can join hands in exploring various directions for increasing manpower under a multi-pronged approach, so as to meet service demand on the one hand, and dovetail with the authorities' development plans on the other. When examining manpower demand, we also need to review our community services at the same time. We have already set up a District Health Centre, in the hope of reversing the over-emphasis on treatment and disregard for prevention. The task in the days ahead involves manpower planning and training. We will continue to take it forward in full swing. DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): President, you must be confused as you listen to this discussion on "whether NLH is a general hospital". And I also believe even Tung Chung residents are likewise confused. Let me give two simple examples to show how the Bureau's reply is not telling the whole truth. According to the authorities, NLH provides 24-hour A&E services. But the reality is that it does not provide any 24-hour surgical services for emergency cases. That is to say, if the diagnosis of a person at its A&E department confirms that he must undergo a surgery, he must then travel 20 minutes to PMH … PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHENG, please raise your supplementary question directly.


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DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): The second example is that NLH does not provide any obstetric services. As a result, Tung Chung residents also need to travel to other hospitals after going to NLH. As a professional, the Secretary should know very well that a five-minute delay in childbirth is already an emergency case. My supplementary question echoes with Mr Holden CHOW's question, one which she has failed to answer. Is it the authorities' target to upgrade NLH to a general hospital? If yes, when will the authorities put in place 24-hour surgical services for emergency cases and also obstetric services? SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): I thank Dr CHENG for the supplementary question. As I said just now, HA will consolidate various hospital services in different clusters, and the roles and positioning of the hospitals concerned also vary from one to another. At present, HA positions NLH as a hospital providing 24-hour emergency and extended care services. This is our positioning of the hospital. The hospital also provides gynaecological and paediatric specialist services. Due to the constraints posed by the number of hospital beds, patients in need of certain specialist inpatient services may need to be transferred to PMH. This is precisely how various hospitals in the same cluster can play the function of offering mutual support for one another and serve as a coherent whole in providing service to members of the public. We will keep monitoring the overall situation, such as future population development in Tung Chung. Speaking of the five existing hospitals in the Kowloon West Cluster (namely PMH, Caritas Medical Centre, Yan Chai Hospital, Kwai Chung Hospital and NLH), the authorities will also continue to monitor the need for any changes in their service positioning and roles. Throughout the whole process, the authorities will seek to ensure that resources are used effectively, and that various services and hospitals within a cluster can dovetail with one another, so as to provide comprehensive and appropriate


services to residents covered by a cluster. This is the premise, and any arrangements for the relevant services are mainly based on this premise. PROF JOSEPH LEE (in Cantonese): President, ordinary people actually have a clear idea about general hospitals. Perhaps it is the Secretary's reply that sounds confusing to them. According to the definition given by the Hong Kong Academy of Medicine, a hospital is a general hospital if it is equipped with all the 15 specialties. As far as my understanding goes, each cluster―according to the Secretary's reply, service planning are formulated on a cluster basis―is already equipped with all the 15 specialties. In fact, NLH is merely equipped with seven specialties and is short of the other eight specialties. This explains why people think that its specialist services are not adequate. But the Secretary has nonetheless asserted that such services are distributed on a cluster basis. Speaking of NLH's existing development, may I ask the Secretary when the authorities will review its service utilization and the local population size and set up the other eight specialties based on the review outcome, so as to spare the need for Lantau or North Lantau residents to travel to other districts on ambulances for medical consultation? This is precisely the crux of Mr Holden CHOW's question. Given the existing lack of services under the other eight specialities, may I ask whether the authorities can provide any statistics afterwards showing the existing number of patients who need to seek consultation in other districts due to the absence of services under the other eight specialities in NLH? What are the authorities' criteria for deciding the time of setting up the other eight specialties, so that people need not travel to other districts for medical consultation? SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): I thank Prof Joseph LEE. The existing specialist services and also specialist inpatient services provided by NLH involve two concepts. Some of the hospital beds that


725

are provided at present are inpatient beds, whereas some are day beds. Patients seeking specialist services may need inpatient services. But at present, NLH are already equipped with various specialist services, and it mainly provides specialist outpatient services. First of all, there are two concepts here. The second point concerns the constraints posed by the existing number of hospital beds. On the whole, NLH can provide 180 hospital beds under its first-phase development, and they comprise 160 inpatient beds and 20 day beds. At present, 90 hospital beds are already in use, and 40 will become ready for use very soon. Due to this constraint, if some patients seeking certain specialist services need inpatient services, they may need to be transferred to hospitals in other clusters. But speaking of those patients who only need specialist outpatient services when seeking certain specialist services, I wish to say that NLH already provides such services at present. In the future, an additional 320 hospital beds can be provided after the implementation of the second-phase development. That is to say, the total number of hospital beds that can be provided by NLH under its first- and second-phase development will add up to 500. We will enhance its services correspondingly in a timely fashion based on various factors, such as additional service capacity, changes in the local population structure, overall distribution of resources, and also the supply of health care manpower. MS ALICE MAK (in Cantonese): President, some 10 or 20 years have passed from the time of the authorities' relocation of the first batch of residents to Tung Chung to the completion of NLH and its service commissioning. By the time when the second-phase development of NLH can be taken forward following the implementation of the second HDP, the first batch of residents who moved to Tung Chung will have lived in the district for 30 years before they are provided with a formal hospital. This is very undesirable. So, I strongly hope that when drawing up planning for new towns in the future, the Secretary can incorporate the relevant services at the stage of planning formulation and relocation of people, so that people do not have to wait for 20 or 30 years in the area they live before they are provided with a hospital.


In our view, the specialist services provided by NLH are inadequate. And, its existing specialist services (such as orthopaedic services) must rely on the support of PMH. Some PMH's orthopaedic doctors have to go to NLH almost one or two days a week. As for those patients who need to undergo more complicated surgeries, they must even be transferred from NLH to PMH. This is very undesirable. May I ask the Secretary about the cause of this? Is manpower the reason? Or, is hospital equipment the reason instead? How can the authorities spare the need for transfer of patients from that hospital to another hospital? And how can they spare the need for doctors to travel between the two hospitals so very frequently? SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): I thank Ms Alice MAK for the supplementary question. President, the situation mentioned by Ms MAK just now stems from the existing constraints on hospital services, and such constraints certainly involve the roles and positioning of the hospital under initial planning. If Members view the existing services of hospitals against their roles and positioning under initial planning, they will realize that hospitals in not only this cluster but also all other clusters must dovetail with one another in service provision. Certainly, we will conduct timely studies. For instance, we will examine the impact on service demand resulting from a rapid population growth in Tung Chung from the planning perspective. As the existing number of inpatient beds in the hospital is relatively small, inpatient services can be enhanced only after a total of 500 hospital beds are available following the service commencement of the additional 320 hospital beds under the second-phase development. Speaking of those patients who need inpatient services when seeking certain specialist services, other hospitals in the cluster may need to render support under the existing circumstances. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Oral questions end here.


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WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS Stand-over item: Fourteen questions for written replies (standing over from the meeting of 10 July 2019) A homicide case in Taiwan involving Hong Kong residents 7. MS STARRY LEE (in Chinese): President, a Hong Kong man was suspected of murdering an accompanying Hong Kong woman in Taiwan in February last year and returned to Hong Kong afterwards. As the Government may not, under the existing legislation, transfer the man to Taiwan for trial, the Security Bureau submitted to this Council in February this year a legislative proposal seeking to amend the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance (Cap. 503) and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Ordinance (Cap. 525). On the 23rd of this month, the Government formally withdrew the bill concerned. On the other hand, that man, who had been sentenced to imprisonment for convicted offences of money laundering, finished serving the sentence and was released this month. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council whether, at present, it has any plans (e.g. through the existing mechanism) to expeditiously transfer the man to Taiwan for trial, in order to seek justice for the deceased, thereby upholding justice; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that? SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, the Taiwan homicide case that took place in February 2018 involved a Hong Kong female being murdered by a Hong Kong male who returned to Hong Kong afterwards. The suspect was arrested by the Hong Kong Police in March 2018. After considering all relevant evidence, the Department of Justice ("DoJ") charged the suspect with four counts of "money laundering". He was convicted of money laundering on 29 April 2019 and sentenced to 29 months' imprisonment. On 18 October, the Chief Executive received a letter from the suspect who was in prison. In the letter, the suspect expressed that he decided to surrender himself to Taiwan for his alleged involvement in the homicide case upon prison discharge, and requested the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR") Government to assist him in making relevant arrangement. The suspect was released from prison on 23 October, and on the same day expressed via the media his wish to surrender himself to Taiwan and stand trial there.


At present, Hong Kong does not have law for surrender of fugitives to and mutual legal assistance in criminal matters with Taiwan. With regard to the criminal prosecution against the suspect, DoJ has thoroughly and comprehensively considered the Hong Kong Police's investigation and the available evidence. There has only been sufficient evidence in Hong Kong to institute criminal prosecution in Hong Kong courts against the suspect for money laundering but not for other offences including his suspected offence of homicide in Taiwan. In making prosecutorial decisions, DoJ has always taken into account the available evidence and applicable laws, and acted independently in accordance with the Prosecution Code. A prosecution would only be commenced if there is sufficient admissible evidence to demonstrate a reasonable prospect of conviction. It is widely known that the homicide offence was committed in Taiwan, and the corpse of the deceased, the key witnesses, the exhibits and the relevant evidence are all in Taiwan. Therefore, Taiwan definitely has jurisdiction over the case. Since December last year, the Taiwan authorities issued a warrant of arrest against the suspect and the warrant has been subsequently changed to be permanently valid. As the suspect has expressed his wish to stand trial in Taiwan and is a wanted person there, the HKSAR Government maintains that his surrender to Taiwan has no direct relation with juridical assistance, and can be dealt with directly outside any juridical assistance mechanism. The suspect has already served his sentence and is a free person now. The HKSAR Government has no authority to continue to detain him or impose compulsory measures on him as claimed by Taiwan. As for the suspect's decision to voluntarily surrender himself, the HKSAR Government is pleased to see that he has repented and is willing to shoulder his criminal responsibility, as this will bring progress to the handling of the case. In fact, upon receipt of the suspect's letter, the HKSAR Government has immediately relayed the suspect's wish to the Taiwan authorities via the Hong Kong Police Force, informing Taiwan that Hong Kong would assist him in making the relevant arrangements and would be pleased to provide Taiwan with all necessary and lawful assistance where practicable. However, this must be conducted under the principle that Taiwan respects Hong Kong's law and jurisdiction. Presently, Hong Kong and Taiwan have already commenced liaison to make arrangements for the suspect to travel to Taiwan. It is hoped that both sides will, on the basis of mutual respect for each other's judicial system, handle the matter in a pragmatic manner and


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strive to find a solution to promptly allow the suspect, who is willing to surrender, to travel to Taiwan to face trial, with a view to giving him an opportunity for self-redemption, upholding the rule of law and justice as well as bringing relief to the victim's family. Use of force against demonstrators 8. MR ALVIN YEUNG (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that on 9 June this year, over a million members of the public participated in a procession to protest against the Government's proposed legislative amendments concerning the surrender of fugitive offenders. After the end of the procession at night and up till the small hours of the following morning, some demonstrators who had stayed behind to continue to protest in the vicinity of the Legislative Council Complex had physical confrontations with police officers. Police officers used Oleoresin Capsicum ("OC") foam (commonly known as "pepper spray") against the demonstrators, hit them with batons, and arrested 19 young persons aged between 19 and 34. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the number of persons arrested, broken down by (i) the age group to which they belonged (as shown in Table 1) and their gender, and (ii) the offence that they were alleged to have committed and the location of arrest (to be set out in Table 1 and Table 2 respectively);

Table 1

Age group (years old) Gender Number of persons

19 to 20 Male Female






Table 2 Location of arrest

Alleged offence

(2) as it has been reported that in the small hours on 10 June this year,

the names and identity card numbers of a number of demonstrators, who were besieged or pursued by police officers, were recorded, of the number of those demonstrators, with a breakdown by (i) the age group to which they belonged and (ii) their gender (to be set out in Table 3);

Table 3 Age group (years old) Gender Number of persons

Under 16 Male Female





Above 65 Male Female

(3) of the respective quantities of (i) OC spray, (ii) OC jet pack solution

and (iii) spray or solution of similar nature, used by the Police during the aforesaid incident;

(4) of the objective criteria or guidelines adopted by the Police for

determining if there is a need to use pepper spray;

(5) as the Hong Kong Police Force Procedures Manual provides that when a person has been hit with batons, the Formation Commander


731

or officer-in-charge of the Formation concerned is required to submit afterwards an initial report to the Major Formation Commander with a copy of the report forwarded to the Assistant Commissioner of Police (Support), of the number of initial reports concerning the aforesaid incident received by the Police so far; whether the Police will make public such reports;

(6) of the following details of each case in the reports mentioned in (5):

(i) the names of the officers using batons, (ii) their ranks, (iii) the injuries suffered by the persons being hit, (iv) the number of hits, and (v) the areas of hits (set out in Table 4); and

Table 4

(i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (v) Other remarks

(7) whether it will make public the latest versions of the Police General

Orders and the Hong Kong Police Force Procedures Manual in their entirety, according to chapters and annexes, to facilitate public understanding of the law enforcement standards adopted by the Police; if so, please provide the latest versions of the Orders and the Manual (together with annexes); if not, of the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, members of the public have the rights to assembly, procession and expression, but when exercising these rights, they must abide by the law and do so in a peaceful and orderly manner. When situations severely threatening public order and public safety occur, such as illegal road blockage, paralysed traffic, unlawful assemblies and violent charging of police cordon lines, etc., the Police, upon exercising risk assessment, will definitely take appropriate actions to ensure public safety and public order. Despite the large turnout, the procession held on Hong Kong Island on 9 June proceeded in a peaceful and orderly manner on the whole. However, after the above procession ended in the evening, at around the small hours of 10 June, large crowds of protesters unlawfully assembled and committed various illegal acts in the vicinity of the demonstration area of the Legislative Council Complex, Legislative Council Road, Tim Mei Avenue, Harcourt Road and Lung Wui Road. Some protesters vandalized the barrier gate of the Legislative


Council carpark, dismantled the mills barriers in the demonstration area of the Legislative Council Complex, damaged public properties and blocked major roads nearby. Some hurled objects at police officers and attempted to violently charge the police cordon line with dismantled mills barriers and snatch suspects already apprehended by the Police, etc. The Police issued repeated warnings but in vain. They therefore, in light of the overall circumstances and actual needs at the scene, decided to use the minimum force required to disperse the crowd and control the situation. The officers used equipment such as pepper spray and batons in the operation to disperse the crowd and stop the charging. In the operation that night, a total of eight police officers were injured. One of them who fell on the ground after being kicked by protesters sustained serious head and eye injuries and is still on sick leave. My reply to the various parts of the question is as follows:

(1) and (2) As at 17 October 2019, the Police have, in relation to above

mentioned incident on 9 June, arrested a total of 32 people, including 30 males and 2 females aged from 18 to 41, for offences including unlawful assembly, assaulting police officer, obstructing police officer in the execution of duties, etc.

(3) to (6) The Police have stringent guidelines on the use of force. Police

officers may use minimum force only when such an action is necessary and there are no other means to accomplish the lawful duty. Police officers shall, where circumstances permit, give warnings prior to the use of force, and give the person(s) involved every opportunity, whenever practicable, to obey police orders before force is used. Once the purpose of using force is achieved, Police will cease to use force.

Pepper spray or tear spray is one of the forces to be used by the

Police, the aim of which is to stop the charging or violent acts of


733

those who charge police cordon line at the front or those with violent acts as soon as possible. Baton is another option for the Police's use of force. All frontline officers equipped with pepper spray, tear spray and baton are required to undergo appropriate training. Police officers have to ensure the use of force complies with the principle of using minimum force.

In the four months between early June and early October, there were

over 400 demonstrations, processions and assemblies arising from the amendments to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance in Hong Kong, during which the frequency of the violent scenes and the mobilization of police officers were different from the ordinary or isolated use of force incident. During such scenes of chaos and extreme violence, Police will give an account on the use of pepper spray, tear spray and baton to the public on an incident basis.

In the incident on 9 June, in view of the numerous violent clashes

and large crowds of violent persons, police officers used pepper spray, tear spray or baton to stop such unlawful and violent acts. For the circumstances of that day, the Police have consolidated records on incidents involving the use of pepper spray and baton at the Central Government Offices and its vicinity (including the Legislative Council demonstration area and Harcourt Road) from that evening to the small hours of the following day, and have received related reports on the use of force.

The Police reiterate that they and the protesters are not on opposing

sides. If members of the public could conduct public order events in a peaceful, lawful and orderly manner, there would be no need for the Police to use any force.

(7) The Police have already uploaded part of the Police General Orders

to the public web page of the Police for public browsing. As for other orders or guidelines which are not made public, including the Force Procedures Manual, making them public may undermine the effective operation of the Police and their crime prevention and detection work.


Access to patient information by the Police 9. DR KWOK KA-KI (in Chinese): President, after serious confrontations between police officers and demonstrators in the vicinity of Admiralty on 12 June this year, some demonstrators who had gone to the accident and emergency ("A&E") departments of public hospitals for treatment of injuries were arrested there by the Police. It was reported in the press on 18 June that any person could access, through the computers in the A&E departments without going through the procedure for logging in with a password, the patient information contained in the Accident and Emergency Information System ("AEIS"), and that the system had a page designated "For Police". The Hospital Authority ("HA") subsequently clarified that AEIS was for the exclusive use of healthcare workers and the page concerned was only a printing option in the "Disaster" module of AEIS. HA also indicated that from 20 June onwards, AEIS could be accessed only after going through the procedure for logging in with a password. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the number of aforesaid persons arrested in the A&E departments, with a tabulated breakdown by (i) name of hospital, (ii) the offences allegedly committed by them and (iii) the age group to which they belonged (i.e. under 16 years old, 16 to 18 years old, 19 to 25 years old, 26 to 40 years old, 41 to 65 years old, and above 65 years old);

(2) regarding the situation about AEIS as mentioned in the aforesaid

press report, whether the management staff of (i) the Food and Health Bureau, (ii) the Security Bureau, (iii) the Department of Health ("DH") and (iv) HA were aware of it beforehand; if so, since when they became aware of it;

(3) since which date the Police had been able to obtain the patient

information contained in AEIS, of the types of information obtained and the to-date number of patients involved; the to-date number of persons arrested by the Police based on such information, with a tabulated breakdown by the offences allegedly committed by them and the locations of arrest (the name of hospital if in hospital); and

(4) whether currently the Police are able to access the patient

information contained in the computer systems of the clinics under DH and of private hospitals; if so, how the Government ensures that the privacy of patients is properly safeguarded?


735

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, in consultation with the Security Bureau, the Department of Health ("DH") and the Hospital Authority ("HA"), I provide below a consolidated reply to the various parts of the question raised by Dr KWOK Ka-ki:

(1) As at 17 October 2019, the Police arrested a total of five persons, aged from 22 to 29, at Queen Elizabeth Hospital, Yan Chai Hospital and Kwong Wah Hospital for riot-related offences regarding the protest on 12 June.

(2) The HA's Accident and Emergency Information System ("AEIS") is

an internal system, and has all along had a "disaster module" to facilitate the management of major incidents in the community by the HA Major Incident Control Centre. It covers various types of major incidents which require service coordination, such as major traffic accidents, fire, earthquakes, landslides, mass gatherings and major sports events, etc. Other modules, such as "heatstroke module" and "hypothermia module", are also available. AEIS is a closed system which is not linked or connected to any computer systems outside HA. It is only accessible to HA staff with access rights, and no such rights have been given to non-HA personnel.

AEIS has a report mode with five report options, namely "Medical",

"Police", "Helpdesk", "Information Services Department" and "General", which provides, as appropriate, information to relevant stakeholders according to different circumstances. All information requests should be made to HA by the requesting party, and should fulfil the dual purposes of facilitating rescue and assisting the injured or their families.

There is a well-established mechanism in public hospitals for

handling requests for patient information from law enforcement officers. All HA and public hospital staff must strictly observe the guidelines on personal data privacy and information access. For any violation of or non-compliance with patient privacy protection guidelines in handling patient information, HA will take appropriate human resources procedures.


To address the public concerns about patient data security of AEIS, HA set up a special task group in late June 2019 to review the security risk of the clinical system with regard to patient privacy protection and frontline operation and make recommendations for improvement. HA adopted the report submitted by the special task group and is implementing the following improvement measures and arrangements:

1. To strengthen system access control of AEIS, including

mandatory personal log-in and access rights based on operational needs of users and audit controls;

2. to enhance traceability and accountability of user activities in

AEIS; 3. to introduce electronic documentation into accident and

emergency ("A&E") process and workflow to minimize the risk of exposure of hardcopies of patient information;

4. to designate "public area", "clinical area" and "staff area" in

the A&E departments; and to enhance privacy protection measures on computers and display monitors;

5. to review and enhance the content of AEIS disaster module

reports and to provide only the necessary patient information; 6. to enhance staff awareness and training on patient information

protection and proper handling of requests from other organizations for patient information;

7. to further collaborate with the Privacy Commissioner for

Personal Data to enhance policy and practice on handling patient information; and

8. to explore technological solutions to facilitate fast log-in to

AEIS such that operational efficiency could be maintained in the heavily loaded A&E departments while ensuring effective access control.


737

(3) According to section 50 of the Police Force Ordinance (Cap. 232), a police officer may apprehend a person who he reasonably believes has committed an offence for which that person may be sentenced to imprisonment, or under specified circumstances.

The Police will not obstruct any person from receiving medical

treatment during investigation or any operation in hospitals. The Police have absolute respect for patients' privacy and any right that a person should be entitled to, including the right to legal representation. Where it is necessary to obtain personal data from hospital for investigation or court trials, the Police will make a written request to the hospital after obtaining the data subject's consent or under the exemptions provided for in the Personal Data (Privacy) Ordinance (Cap. 486). Applications for search warrants will be made to the court if necessary.

(4) The information system, containing client information, in the clinics

of DH is operated on the Government intranet and is only accessible by relevant officers of DH. Unless authorized by law, non-DH personnel cannot access or obtain information contained in the relevant system.

On the other hand, private hospitals should develop policies and

procedures in handling patient data (including information stored electronically). Such policies and procedures should comply with relevant legislation (including the Personal Data (Privacy) Ordinance) and guidelines/codes of practice issued by professional bodies (e.g. the Medical Council of Hong Kong).

Driving test centres under the Transport Department 10. MR MARTIN LIAO (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that from time to time, certain driving test centres ("DTCs") under the Transport Department are closed during opening days due to a shortage of driving examiners. As a result, candidates have to wait for a long time before they can take road tests of driving tests ("road tests"). In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:


(1) of the average number of opening days per week on which the various DTCs were closed, in each of the past three years, as well as the major reasons for the closure;

(2) of the staffing establishment, number of vacancies and wastage

(broken down by the cause of wastage (e.g. retirement and resignation)) of driving examiners, in each of the past three years, as well as the estimated figures for each of the coming three years (set out in a table);

(3) of the respective numbers of persons who took road tests for

(i) non-commercial vehicles and (ii) commercial vehicles in each of the past three years, as well as the respective average, lowest and highest numbers of calendar days for which they had waited before taking the road tests (set out in a table);

(4) as some members of the transport trade have relayed that there has

been a serious shortage of commercial vehicle drivers in recent years, whether the Government has assessed if the long waiting time for candidates to take road tests for commercial vehicles has aggravated this problem; and

(5) whether it will consider converting sites of DTCs with low utilization

rates to other uses, so as to optimize the utilization of land resources?

SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, the Transport Department ("TD") has been closely monitoring the demand for driving tests and has deployed resources to provide driving test services. My reply to the various parts of Mr Martin LIAO's question is as follows:

(1) The average number of opening days per week for driving test centres ("DTCs") in the past three years (2016 to 2018) is tabulated at Annex 1. The number of opening days of DTCs is subject to a host of factors, including the geographical conditions of the venues, the traffic conditions of the nearby areas, the test demands for


739

various vehicle types, the availability of TD's manpower resources, etc. Taking the four DTCs in government designated driving schools ("DDS") as examples, DDSs in Sha Tin and Yuen Long are relatively spacious, such that both driving test training and driving tests can be provided concurrently. Also, since the demand for driving tests is relatively high in these two areas, these two DTCs are open for driving tests on every working day. On the contrary, DDSs in Ap Lei Chau and Kwun Tong can hardly handle driving training and driving tests at the same time due to their smaller venues and nearby traffic restrictions. Therefore, DTCs in these two DDSs only open for two to three working days per week for driving tests.

In addition, some DTCs are not suitable for use as driving test

venues for other types of vehicles owing to their geographical conditions and frequent traffic of the nearby areas. For example, Yuen On Driving Test Centre and Container Port Road South Driving Test Centre conduct driving tests for articulated vehicles ("AV") only due to the site constraints. Coupled with the relatively low test demand for DTCs for commercial vehicles, their number of opening days is thus relatively lower than other DTCs.

(2) The staffing establishment, number of vacancies and wastage of

driving examiners of TD in the past three years are set out in Annex 2. The estimated staffing establishment, number of vacancies as well as number of retirees of driving examiners in 2019 and the coming three years are set out in Annex 3.

(3) Commercial vehicles generally refer to taxi, medium and heavy

goods vehicles ("MGV"), private and public light buses ("PLB"), private buses, public buses, franchised buses, AVs as well as special purpose vehicles, while private cars ("PC"), light goods vehicles ("LGV") and motor cycles ("MC") are non-commercial vehicles. The waiting time for road tests hinges on a number of factors, such as the test demand for different vehicle types and parts of the driving tests, as well as the scheduling of tests, etc. The number of road tests arranged, as well as the average waiting time, shortest and


longest average waiting time of road tests for non-commercial and commercial vehicles in the past three years are tabulated at Annex 4.

(4) The Government has always been concerned about the shortage of

commercial vehicle drivers. In this connection, TD has pledged to keep the average waiting time for road tests for commercial vehicles to 82 days or shorter through flexible deployment of resources. In fact, the average waiting time of commercial vehicles in the past three years was shorter than 60 days. TD will continue to monitor the demand for road tests of commercial vehicles and deploy resources to meet the demand as far as possible according to actual circumstances.

As at end 2018, the total number of valid full driving licences for

different types of commercial vehicles is more than 870 000. To attract more entrants into the commercial driving industry, the Government is preparing a legislative amendment exercise to relax the requirements for applications for commercial vehicles to have held a valid driving licence of PC or LGV for a period of at least three years to at least one year, and will introduce it into the Legislative Council as soon as possible.

(5) TD does not have any plan to convert DTCs with relatively low

utilization rates (such as Yuen On Driving Test Centre and Container Port Road South Driving Test Centre) to other uses because they are currently the only suitable venues for conducting driving tests for AVs, among all driving test sites. Moreover, Yuen On Driving Test Centre is located on a public road and the mobile driving test centre (i.e. the vehicle which serves as the office) is only placed at Yuen On Street during driving tests and will not take up any road space when no test is scheduled. As regards the Container Port Road South Driving Test Centre, it is used by other government departments for designated uses when no test is scheduled, including vehicle inspection by the Fire Services Department, and temporary parking of vehicles of the Hong Kong Police Force.


741

Annex 1

Average Weekly Opening Days of DTCs

Year

(Cal

enda

r Yea

r)

Average Weekly Opening Days of DTCs (Non-designated Driving Schools)

Tin

Kwon

g Ro

ad

(LG

V/M

C)

Chu

ng Y

ee S

tree

t (P

C/L

GV)

C

hak

On

Road

(P

C/L

GV)

Ya

u To

ng

(PC

/LG

V)

Win

g H

au S

tree

t (L

GV)

Sh

ek Y

am

(PC

/PLB

) Pu

i Chi

ng R

oad

(PC

) H

appy

Val

ley

(PC

) So

Kon

Po

(LG

V/M

C)

Tsue

n W

an

(Pri

vate

bus

/Pub

lic b

us/M

GV/

HG

V)

Yuen

On

(AV)

C

onta

iner

Por

t Roa

d So

uth

(AV)

Sh

eung

On

(Pri

vate

bus

/Pub

lic b

us/M

GV)

2016 5.0 4.9 3.6 4.9 5.0 2.8 4.5 3.9 3.7 4.1 1.1 0.2 1.2 2017 5.0 5.0 4.1 4.9 3.8 2.6 4.1 2.9 3.5 4.1 0.7 0.2 1.1 2018 5.0 5.0 3.9 4.6 3.3 2.8 4.5 3.0 3.6 4.3 0.8 0.2 1.3

Year

(Cal

enda

r Yea

r)

Average Weekly Opening Days of DTCs (Designated Driving Schools)

New Horizon School of Motoring

(Ap Lei Chau) (PC/LGV/MC)

Kwun Tong Driving School (PC/LGV/MC

(Part B only)note)

Hong Kong School of Motoring

(Sha Tin) (PC/LGV/MC/

MGV/PLB)

Hong Kong School of Motoring (Yuen Long)

(PC/LGV/MC/ MGV/PLB/AV)

2016 3.3 2.2 5.0 4.2 2017 3.0 2.1 5.0 4.3 2018 3.0 2.0 5.0 5.0 Note: Part B Test for MCs includes four designated basic movements conducted at a compound: (i) stopping at designated points: (ii) turning left; (iii) turning right; and (iv) stopping in emergency. To ensure the safety of learner drivers and road users, a candidate must enrol for a mandatory MC training course in a government DDS to acquire the basic knowledge and skills to manoeuvre an MC before applying through DDS for Part B Test conducted at its DTC.


Annex 2

Staffing Establishment, Number of Vacancies and Wastage of Driving Examiners of TD in 2016 to 2018

Driving Examiner ("DE") Grade

Calendar Year

Staffing Establishment(1)

Number of Vacancies

Wastage Number of Retirees

Number of Resignees Others

2016 73 5 3 0 0 2017 74 9 3 0 0 2018 75 7 4 0 1(2)

Notes: (1) The numbers include time-limited posts in addition to the permanent posts. (2) The DE concerned has been transferred to another government department.

Annex 3

Estimated Staffing Establishment, Number of Vacancies and Retirees of DEs of TD in 2019 to 2022

Calendar Year

DE Grade Estimated Staffing

Establishment Estimated Number of

Vacancies Estimated Number of

Retirees 2019 79 0(1) 2 2020 84(2) 7(3) 2 2021 84 0 2 2022 84 0 4

Notes: (1) TD commenced the recruitment exercise of DE II in Q4 2018. The newly appointed

DE II will commence service by end of 2019. (2) TD anticipated that five permanent posts will be created in the second half of 2020. (3) TD anticipated that the new recruitment exercise of DE II will be completed by end 2020

to fill the vacancies. The number of recruits is subject to the new resources available. The newly appointed DEs are expected to commence service in early 2021.


743

Annex 4

The Number of Road Tests Arranged, the Average Waiting time, the Shortest and Longest Waiting Time of Road Tests for Non-commercial and

Commercial Vehicles in 2016 to 2018 (1) Number of Road Tests Arranged for Non-commercial and Commercial

Vehicles

Year (Calendar year) Non-commercial vehicles Commercial vehicles

2016 154 404 14 835 2017 154 059 14 007 2018 152 308 14 384

Note: Including the number of road tests conducted, and the number of tests which were not conducted due to absent from test and other reasons (e.g. due to bad weather on the test day, unexpected breakdown of the test vehicles, etc.) (2) The Average Waiting Time of Road Tests for Non-commercial and

Commercial Vehicles

Year (Calendar year)

Average waiting time (Days) Non-commercial vehicles Commercial vehicles

2016 147 55 2017 151 60 2018 154 61

(3) The Shortest and the Longest Average Waiting Time of Road Tests for

Non- commercial and Commercial Vehicles

Year (Calendar year)

Average waiting time (Days) Non-commercial vehicles Commercial vehicles

Shortest Longest Shortest Longest 2016 34 292 31 82 2017 38 278 41 90 2018 33 276 39 81

Note: The table above are the longest and shortest waiting time that are selected from the average waiting time of road tests in respect of different types of non-commercial and commercial vehicles as at the end of each month in the year.


Arrest of demonstrators on 12 June this year 11. MS TANYA CHAN (in Chinese): President, on 12 June this year, quite a number of demonstrators gathered in the vicinity of the Legislative Council Complex, protesting against the Government's proposed legislative amendments concerning the surrender of fugitive offenders. Police officers used force to disperse the demonstrators and arrested quite a number of demonstrators on the spot and in the accident and emergency ("A&E") departments of public hospitals. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the total number of participants of the aforesaid demonstration

arrested to date, with breakdowns (to be set out in Table 1 and Table 2 respectively) by (i) the offence that they were alleged to have committed and the location of arrest, and (ii) the age group to which they belonged (as set out in Table 2);

Table 1

Location of arrest

Alleged offence

Table 2

Age group (years old) Gender Number of persons

Below 16 Male Female





Above 65 Male Female


745

(2) how the Police came to know that some demonstrators were receiving treatment in the A&E departments of public hospitals, upon which police officers were sent there to arrest them; and

(3) of the factors to be considered by the Department of Justice in

deciding which of the offence provisions (e.g. section 17B (disorder in public places), section 18 (unlawful assembly) and section 19 (riot)) under the Public Order Ordinance (Cap. 245) are to be invoked for instituting prosecutions against those arrestees?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, it is the Police's statutory duty to maintain public safety and public order. When situations severely threatening public order and public safety occur, such as illegal road blockage, paralysed traffic, unlawful assemblies and violent charging of police cordon lines, etc., the Police, upon exercising risk assessment, will take appropriate actions to ensure public safety and public order. At about 8:00 am on 12 June, a large number of violent protesters in mask and protective gear rushed out to Lung Wo Road, Tim Mei Avenue, Queensway and Harcourt Road in an organized manner. They occupied the roads, severely obstructed the traffic and disrupted social order. Some of them even did threatening and provocative acts. As police cars and private vehicles were trapped in a tunnel at Lung Wo Road, Police Negotiators had to be deployed to negotiate with protesters. As a result, some police officers and citizens were forced to stay in their cars for nearly eight hours, with their personal freedom severely impeded. The illegal traffic disruption and road blockage extensively paralysed the traffic in the vicinity of Lung Wo Road and Harcourt Road. Notwithstanding this, the Police had been maintaining a high degree of tolerance. At around 3:00 pm, the situation at the Legislative Council Complex further deteriorated. A large group of extremely violent persons repeatedly charged the police cordon line with weapons as bricks, metal poles, mills barriers and wooden planks. The Police set up a cordon line there mainly to protect the Legislative Council Complex and the people inside. Such violent charging not only posed serious threats to the personal safety of people at the scene (including other citizens, media workers and police officers on duty), but also seriously threatened public safety and order. Having assessed the prevailing


circumstances, the Police withdrew the cordon line at the Legislative Council Complex to the demonstration area outside its entrance to continue to protect the complex and the staff concerned. Having issued repeated advice and warnings but in vain, the field commander, in light of the actual circumstances, the overall situation and operational needs, and, without other choices, decided to use minimum force accordingly to disperse the crowd and control the situation, so as to prevent public safety and public order from being further jeopardized, as well as to protect the safety of others and police officers. My reply to the various parts of the question is as follows:

(1) As at 17 October 2019, the Police have, in relation to the incident of 12 June, arrested a total of 39 people, including 36 males and 3 females aged from 14 to 57, 5 of which were arrested in hospitals. The offences involved include behaving in a disorderly manner in a public place, unlawful assembly, assaulting police officer, etc.

(2) According to section 10 of the Police Force Ordinance (Cap. 232),

the duties of the Police include preserving the public peace; preventing and detecting crimes and offences; and apprehending all persons whom it is lawful to apprehend and for whose apprehension sufficient grounds exists.

The Police have all along been performing duties at hospitals under

various circumstances, including going to a hospital upon receipt of a report to understand the situation from the informant or relevant persons, to find out the seriousness of injuries of the victims or the persons involved, and to arrange for arrested persons to receive treatment at hospitals, etc. Besides, if the health care personnel find any patients with suspicious injuries (for example, the injuries are suspected to be caused in incidents of a criminal nature), the Police will also be informed to take follow-up actions as appropriate. At the same time, if a police constable stationed at the Accident and Emergency ("A&E") Department finds any patients (including victims or suspects) with suspicious injuries in the lobby of the A&E Department, the Police will take the initiative to follow up the case.


747

(3) In Hong Kong, law enforcement agencies ("LEAs") are responsible for criminal investigations in Hong Kong, while the Department of Justice ("DoJ") decides whether a prosecution should be initiated. Investigators of LEAs (such as the Police) will gather the evidence and other materials, while the prosecutors of DoJ will give legal advice based on such, including the making of a prosecutorial decision.

With regard to criminal prosecution in each and every case, DoJ

makes prosecutorial decisions independently based on evidence, the applicable laws and the Prosecution Code. The factors and the test to be considered in making a decision to prosecute are detailed in Chapter 5 of the Prosecution Code. The prosecution must consider whether there is sufficient evidence to institute a prosecution, and the test is whether the evidence is sufficient to demonstrate a reasonable prospect of conviction; if there is sufficient evidence to initiate a prosecution, the prosecution will then consider whether it is in the public interest to do so. In addition, according to paragraph 8.1 of the Prosecution Code, when choosing charges to be prosecuted, the prosecution should attempt to reflect adequately the criminality of the conduct alleged, in a manner that is both efficient and that will enable the Court to do justice between the community and the accused. Such provisions are applicable to all types of cases.

Chapter 19 of the Prosecution Code reminds prosecutors of the

applicable and widely established legal principles for handling cases relating to public order events (including offences which may involve the Public Order Ordinance (Cap. 245)). Offences alleged to have been committed in conjunction with the exercise of freedoms guaranteed by the Basic Law or the Hong Kong Bill of Rights, such as freedom of assembly, of procession and of demonstration, may give rise to special considerations by the prosecutor. On the one hand, there is a positive duty on the authorities to take reasonable and appropriate measures to enable lawful assemblies to take place peacefully; on the other hand, there is a need to protect persons and property by maintaining public order according to law. For cases in relation to public order events, prosecutors have to strike a balance between the interest of society in maintaining public order and the right of a person to lawfully and peacefully exercise his or her rights.


In general, criminal prosecution should only be pursued when the relevant conduct exceeds sensible proportions or the bounds of reasonableness.

The Court of Final Appeal has also pointed out in recent cases that

once protesters use or threaten to use violence (i.e. a breach of the peace), they will have gone beyond the constitutionally guaranteed bounds of peaceful demonstration and entered the domain of illicit activities, which may be sanctioned and restricted by law. Participants who go beyond the above bounds and infringe others' rights and freedom unlawfully shall bear the same consequences. There is no constitutional guarantee for any unlawful acts of violence.

DoJ will continue to adhere to the above principles and

professionalism in carrying out its constitutional duty under Article 63 of the Basic Law to make prosecutorial decisions, free from any interference, in an impartial and fearless manner.

Employment of persons with disabilities by the Government 12. MR CHAN HAN-PAN (in Chinese): President, in recent years, while the overall employment rate in Hong Kong has remained at high levels, the employment rate of persons with disabilities ("PWDs") has been persistently low. According to the findings of a survey conducted by the Census and Statistics Department in 2013, the employment rate of PWDs aged 15 and above was 13.6%, and that of the 43 000 PWDs holding post-secondary qualifications among them was around 34.7%. On the other hand, the percentage of civil servants with disabilities in the total number of civil servants had declined for five consecutive years, dropping from 2.1% in 2013-2014 to 1.7% in 2017-2018. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the respective numbers of the existing and newly recruited government employees with disabilities (including civil servants and non-civil service contract staff) and their percentages in the total number of government employees in each of the past three years, together with a tabulated breakdown by (i) the employing department of such employees, (ii) their type of disability, (iii) the


749

grade to which they belonged and (iv) the type of jobs in which they were engaged;

(2) whether the Government, being the largest employer in Hong Kong,

will consider afresh implementing within the Government an employment quota system for PWDs, so as to take the lead; if so, of the details and timetable; if not, the reasons for that; and

(3) given that quite a number of types of jobs within the government

structure (e.g. telephone customer services and certain clerical work) can aptly be taken up by PWDs, whether the Government will consider giving PWDs priority for employment when conducting recruitment exercises for posts of designated types of jobs; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE (in Chinese): President, my reply to the question is as follows:

(1) There is no requirement for applicants for government jobs and serving officers to declare their disabilities, if any. The situation on persons with disabilities employed in the civil service is known to us on the basis of information available to bureaux/departments through requests of applicants during the recruitment process for special arrangements for selection interview/test having regard to their disabilities, or under situations where serving officers with disabilities apply for financial assistance to purchase technical aids to assist in their performance of duties. Hence, the figures obtained through the aforesaid channels are the lowest figures known to us. The number of civil servants known to have disabilities (excluding persons with colour blindness or defective colour perception) and the number of those who were newly recruited, with breakdown by types of disability and bureaux/departments, as well as the percentages in the strength of the civil service they accounted for from 2016-2017 to 2018-2019, are set out in Tables 1-4 below. We do not collect the relevant information with breakdown by grades and job types of serving or newly recruited civil servants with disabilities. We also do not collect relevant figures on non-civil service contract staff.


Table 1: Number of civil servants known to have disabilities from 2016-2017 to 2018-2019 (by types of disability)

Type of disability Year 2016-2017 2017-2018 2018-2019

Visual impairment 374 355 337 Hearing impairment 375 391 398 Physical disability 1 418 1 301 1 209 Intellectual disability 15 15 16 Ex-mentally ill persons 347 341 356 Visceral disability 537 518 544 Others, e.g. autism, speech impairment, specific learning difficulties, etc.

21 21 21

Total no. of civil servants with disabilities 3 087 2 942 2 881

Strength of civil service 167 671 171 458 174 902 Percentage 1.8% 1.7% 1.6%

Table 2: Number of civil servants known to have disabilities from

2016-2017 to 2018-2019 (by bureaux/departments)

Bureau/Department Year

2016-2017 2017-2018 2018-2019 Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department 170 160 142

Architectural Services Department 20 20 19

Audit Commission 1 1 1 Auxiliary Medical Service 1 1 1 Buildings Department 12 12 10 Census and Statistics Department 17 17 17

Civil Aid Service 2 2 2 Civil Aviation Department 5 4 5 Civil Engineering and Development Department 41 41 44

Companies Registry 21 20 17


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2016-2017 2017-2018 2018-2019 Correctional Services Department 209 211 196

Customs and Excise Department 50 48 59

Department of Health 73 75 74 Department of Justice 11 13 17 Drainage Services Department 95 79 80 Electrical and Mechanical Services Department 62 60 54

Environmental Protection Department 6 7 12

Fire Services Department 34 33 36 Food and Environmental Hygiene Department

172 140 136

Government Laboratory 2 1 1 Government Logistics Department 23 23 24

Government Property Agency 2 3 3 G.S.: Offices of the Chief

Secretary for Administration and the Financial Secretary

7 9 7

G.S.: Civil Service Bureau 15 12 13 G.S.: Commerce and

Economic Development Bureau

2 3 2

G.S.: Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau 1 1 1

G.S.: Development Bureau 2 2 2 G.S.: Education Bureau 51 47 63 G.S.: Environment Bureau 1 1 0 G.S.: Financial Services and

the Treasury Bureau 1 1 1

G.S.: Food and Health Bureau 0 1 1 G.S.: Home Affairs Bureau 2 2 2



2016-2017 2017-2018 2018-2019 G.S.: Innovation and

Technology Bureau 15 16 20

G.S.: Labour and Welfare Bureau

4 4 3

G.S.: Security Bureau 2 2 2 G.S.: Transport and Housing

Bureau 1 1 1

Highways Department 63 61 64 Home Affairs Department 58 57 54 Hong Kong Observatory 2 3 3 Hong Kong Police Force 565 516 490 Hospital Authority 21 20 12 Housing Department 103 100 107 Immigration Department 200 200 197 Information Services Department

2 2 3

Inland Revenue Department 102 98 91 Intellectual Property Department

2 2 3

Invest Hong Kong 1 1 1 Judiciary 31 30 31 Labour Department 69 64 62 Land Registry 21 18 22 Lands Department 55 57 60 Legal Aid Department 7 7 7 Leisure and Cultural Services Department

247 246 232

Marine Department 23 19 18 Office of the Communications Authority

10 12 13

Official Receiver's Office 4 4 3 Planning Department 3 5 5 Post Office 95 87 84 Public Service Commission 0 1 1


753


2016-2017 2017-2018 2018-2019 Radio Television Hong Kong 1 1 2 Rating and Valuation Department 21 21 20

Registration and Electoral Office 4 3 2

Social Welfare Department 131 126 124 Trade and Industry Department 10 10 10 Transport Department 27 25 28 Treasury 9 8 8 University Grants Committee 1 0 0 Water Supplies Department 51 47 40 Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency 15 18 16

Total no. of civil servants with disabilities 3 087 2 942 2 881

Table 3: Number of newly recruited civil servants known to have

disabilities from 2016-2017 to 2018-2019 (by types of disability)

Type of disability Year 2016-2017 2017-2018 2018-2019

Visual impairment 6 8 11 Hearing impairment 14 24 17 Physical disability 8 9 13 Intellectual disability 1 1 2 Ex-mentally ill persons 4 9 6 Visceral disability 14 22 41 Others, e.g. autism, speech impairment, specific learning difficulties, etc.

2 1 0

No. of newly recruited civil servants with disabilities 49 74 90

Total no. of newly recruited civil servants

8 947 12 041 11 698


Table 4: Number of newly recruited civil servants known to have disabilities from 2016-2017 to 2018-2019 (by bureaux/departments)

Bureau/Department Year 2016-2017 2017-2018 2018-2019

Civil Aviation Department 0 0 1 Civil Engineering and Development Department 2 0 5

Customs and Excise Department 0 0 1

Department of Health 2 11 7 Department of Justice 1 2 3 Drainage Services Department 0 3 4 Electrical and Mechanical Services Department 0 2 0

Environmental Protection Department 0 0 1

Fire Services Department 1 0 3 Food and Environmental Hygiene Department 5 4 8

Government Logistics Department 1 5 2

Government Property Agency 0 1 0 G.S.: Civil Service Bureau 1 0 1 G.S.: Education Bureau 1 2 16 G.S.: Environment Bureau 1 0 0 G.S.: Innovation and

Technology Bureau 1 0 1

G.S.: Labour and Welfare Bureau 1 0 0

G.S.: Security Bureau 1 0 0 Home Affairs Department 2 0 1 Hong Kong Observatory 1 0 0 Hong Kong Police Force 0 5 5 Housing Department 2 3 6 Inland Revenue Department 2 3 1 Intellectual Property Department 0 0 1


755

Bureau/Department Year 2016-2017 2017-2018 2018-2019

Judiciary 3 1 0 Labour Department 2 0 0 Lands Department 0 3 3 Legal Aid Department 0 1 0 Leisure and Cultural Services Department 4 19 7

Marine Department 0 0 1 Post Office 4 2 5 Rating and Valuation Department 0 2 0

Social Welfare Department 10 4 5 Transport Department 1 0 1 Water Supplies Department 0 0 1 Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency 0 1 0

No. of newly recruited civil servants with disabilities 49 74 90

(2) The Government's policy objectives are to provide skill training and

support services for persons with disabilities to enable them to take up productive and gainful employment in the open market on the basis of their abilities rather than disabilities; provide assistance for employers; and strive to promote an inclusive society. Establishing a mandatory employment quota system for persons with disabilities to require employers (including the Government) to employ a certain number or percentage of persons with disabilities may create a negative labelling effect on these persons, which is not conducive to their integration into the workplace and the community. At present, the Civil Service Bureau has no plan to set an upper or lower limit for employing persons with disabilities as civil servants. Our policy is to ensure that persons with disabilities, like other applicants, enjoy equal opportunities in applying for government jobs by putting in place appropriate measures to facilitate their participation in the recruitment process, and give them an appropriate degree of preference for appointment.


(3) Appointment to the civil service is based on the principle of open and fair competition. All applicants in an open recruitment exercise are assessed on the basis of their character, ability and performance, having regard to the stipulated entry requirements set according to the job requirements. As mentioned above, we endeavour to ensure that persons with disabilities, like other applicants, enjoy equal opportunities in applying for government jobs by putting in place appropriate measures to facilitate their participation in the recruitment process. These measures include: (i) applicants who have declared disabilities and meet the basic entry requirements for a post will not be subject to shortlisting criteria, if any, and will automatically be invited to attend the selection test/interview; (ii) the recruiting bureau/department is required to proactively ascertain from individual applicants who have declared disabilities any assistance or accommodation needed, and suitably adjust the test/interview process to cater for their special needs; (iii) if an applicant who has declared disability is found suitable by the recruitment board to carry out the duties of certain posts in a specific rank, he/she may be recommended for appointment even though he/she may not be able to perform the full range of duties of every post in the concerned rank due to his/her disability; and (iv) if an applicant with disabilities who meets the basic entry requirements for a post is not recommended for appointment, the recruitment board should submit the recommendation to an officer at a rank not lower than the Assistant Director level in the recruiting department/grade for consideration and decision. At the same time, an appropriate degree of preference may be given to applicants who have declared disabilities found suitable for appointment by placing them ahead of other applicants whose suitability for appointment is considered comparable to the former. As the nature of disabilities and talents of persons with disabilities vary, we consider that it would not be appropriate to adopt a preferential recruitment policy for persons with disabilities for designated types of jobs. The Government will continue to monitor the implementation of the measures above and ensure that persons with disabilities, like other applicants, enjoy equal opportunities in applying for government jobs.


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Serving teachers changing their jobs to work for the Education Bureau 13. MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Chinese): President, some members of the education sector have complained to me that in recent years, the Education Bureau ("EDB") has, from time to time, conducted open recruitment exercises for positions the entry requirements of which include a certain number of years' teaching experience. As the appointees are usually serving teachers, the schools at which such teachers originally teach often have to recruit teachers midway through a school term in order to fill the vacancies, thus affecting the operation of the schools and the learning progress of the students. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the number of serving teachers who changed their jobs to work for EDB in each of the past 10 years and, among them, the number of those who changed their jobs midway through a school term; and

(2) whether EDB will, in future, arrange as far as possible the serving

teachers appointed by it to report for duty during the summer break, so as to avoid affecting the operation of the schools at which they originally teach as well as the learning progress of the students; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Chinese): President, my reply to Mr Tommy CHEUNG's question is as follows:

(1) The education grades posts for which the Education Bureau conducts open recruitment exercises include Assistant Education Officer ("AEO"), Assistant Primary School Master/Mistress ("APSM"), Assistant Education Officer (Administration) ("AEO(A)"), Assistant Inspector (Graduate) ("AI(G)") and Specialist (Education Services) I/II. Applicants for some of these posts must possess certain teaching experience. In the past 10 years, the number of appointees originally teaching at aided/Direct Subsidy Scheme ("DSS")/private schools prior to appointment by the Education Bureau is as follows:


Year Number of serving teachers

appointedNote

Number of serving teachers reporting for duty midway through a school termNote

2009 24 21 2010 64 21 2011 27 20 2012 46 9 2013 69 39 2014 109 55 2015 58 41 2016 128 23 2017 132 44 2018 174 33 Note: Serving teachers refer to teachers originally teaching at aided/DSS/private schools.

(2) In general, the Education Bureau arranges government school

teachers (who are appointed as AEO or APSM) to report for duty at the commencement of a new school year. As for non-teaching grades posts such as AEO(A) and AI(G), vacancies may inevitably arise at different times of the year due to the introduction of new policies, retirements, etc. To meet operational needs and ensure timely provision of services, such vacancies should be filled promptly rather than left vacant until the end of a school term. As shown in part (1) of this reply, with various measures put in place in recent years, the percentage of serving teachers reporting for duty midway through a school term is decreasing despite an increasing number of serving teachers appointed. The relevant measures include arranging for serving teachers appointed to assume office after the end of a school term as far as possible and asking appointees to indicate the earliest intended date of reporting for duty for our flexible arrangement so as to minimize the impact on the operation of the schools.


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Elderly Dental Assistance Programme 14. MS YUNG HOI-YAN (in Chinese): President, the Elderly Dental Assistance Programme ("the Programme"), launched by the Community Care Fund in September 2012, provides free removable dentures and related dental services to low-income elderly persons who are users of home care service or home help service subvented by the Social Welfare Department. The eligibility for participating in the Programme was relaxed in September 2015, October 2016, July 2017 and February 2019 to cover elderly persons who were/are Old Age Living Allowance recipients aged 80 or above, aged 75 or above, aged 70 or above and aged 65 or above respectively. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the respective numbers of elderly persons eligible for participating in the Programme when it was first launched and upon each relaxation of the eligibility; the number of elderly persons participating in the Programme in the three months after each relaxation, and the percentage of such number in the total number of eligible elderly persons, as well as how such figures compare with the relevant figures for three months prior to that relaxation;

(2) of the respective numbers of participating dental clinics and dentists

in each year since the launch of the Programme, with a breakdown by District Council district;

(3) of the largest, smallest and average numbers of elderly persons to

whom the participating dentists provided dental services under the Programme, and the number of dentists who did not provide such services throughout the year (and the reasons for that), in each of the past three years; and

(4) whether it has reviewed if the implementation of the Programme

(including the numbers of participating elderly persons and dentists) has achieved the expected results; if it has reviewed and the outcome is that the expected results have not been achieved, of the measures put in place to (i) boost the participation rate of elderly persons, and (ii) avoid the situation that participating dentists do not provide the relevant services at all throughout a year?


SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President,

(1) The Community Care Fund launched the Elderly Dental Assistance Programme ("the Programme") in September 2012. The Programme was expanded by phases to cover elderly persons who are Old Age Living Allowance ("OALA") recipients aged 80 or above, aged 75 or above, aged 70 or above and aged 65 or above respectively. The respective numbers of elderly persons eligible for participating in the Programme when it was first launched and upon each relaxation of the eligibility criteria, the number of elderly persons participating in the Programme in the subsequent three months after each relaxation and the percentage of such number in the total number of eligible elderly persons, as well as how such figures compare with the relevant figures in the preceding three months before that relaxation are tabulated below:

Programme phase

Launch of the

Programme (since

September 2012)

First phase

expansion (since

September 2015)

Second phase

expansion (since

October 2016)

Third phase

expansion (since July

2017)

Fourth phase

expansion (since

February 2019)

Number of eligible elderly persons

34 662* 167 446*&@ 251 787*&@ 376 168*&@ 578 302*, @ &#

Total number of participating elderly persons three months after launch/ relaxation^

192 9 243 (7 646)

19 311 (5 101)

31 120 (6 999)

57 754 (6 959)

Their percentage in the total number of eligible elderly persons

0.6% 5.5% 7.7% 8.3% 10.0%


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Programme phase

Launch of the

Programme (since

September 2012)

First phase

expansion (since

September 2015)

Second phase

expansion (since

October 2016)

Third phase

expansion (since July

2017)

Fourth phase

expansion (since

February 2019)

Total number of participating elderly persons three months before relaxation

Not applicable

1 514 12 909 21 767 46 932

Increase in participation rate (%) three months before and after relaxation

Not applicable

510% 50% 43% 23%

Notes: * It refers to the number of elderly persons using Integrated Home Care Services ("IHCS")

or Enhanced Home and Community Care Services ("EHCCS"). The elderly persons are required to pay a fee for IHCS and EHCCS according to the fee scale based on their income levels (divided into three levels). The low-income elderly persons charged at level one or two are eligible for the application of the Programme. The Social Welfare Department does not keep a breakdown of the number of service users by month, income level and fee level. The figures provided are the total number of service users of all levels in a whole year.

@ The figure is based on the number of eligible elderly persons receiving OALA in that

financial year. # The figure on service users of IHCS and EHCCS derives from the revised estimates of

the annual total in 2018-2019. ^ The number of participating elderly persons within the three months after relaxation is

provided in bracket. (2) The respective numbers of participating dentists (including dentists

serving private and non-government organizations ("NGO") clinics) in each year since the launch of the Programme, with a breakdown by District Council ("DC") district are tabulated below. The implementing agent of the Programme does not keep a breakdown of dental clinics.


Total number of participating dentists (including dentists serving private and NGO dental clinics) in each year:

Financial Year

2015- 2016

2016- 2017

2017- 2018

2018- 2019

2019- 2020 (as at

end September 2019)

Number of participating dentistsΔ

447 523 577 611 617

Note: Δ The figure excludes some of the doubled-counted dentists serving private

and NGO dental clinics concurrently. Number of participating dentists (breakdown by DC district) in each

year:ꞵ

Financial YearФ

2015- 2016

2016- 2017

2017- 2018

2018- 2019

2019- 2020 (as at

end September 2019)

Central and Western 47 64 75 80 77

Wan Chai 38 49 54 56 49 Eastern 46 55 63 62 68 Southern 11 11 11 11 11 Yau Tsim Mong 98 124 135 158 163

Sham Shui Po 35 43 49 57 66

Kowloon City 25 31 38 37 44

Wong Tai Sin 28 37 40 50 51

Kwun Tong 39 49 56 64 67


763

Financial YearФ

2015- 2016

2016- 2017

2017- 2018

2018- 2019

2019- 2020 (as at

end September 2019)

Tsuen Wan 25 31 37 41 33 Tuen Mun 24 37 43 39 40 Yuen Long 27 40 48 45 52 North 16 18 16 20 20 Tai Po 18 22 22 25 25 Sai Kung 20 30 31 33 34 Sha Tin 42 53 62 63 62 Kwai Tsing 24 30 37 48 53 Islands 4 7 8 9 7 Notes: ꞵ Some of the participating dentists providing services under the Programme

in different DC districts are counted individually. Ф The implementing agent of the Programme only keeps the number of

participating dentists and the breakdown starting from 2015-2016. (3) The largest, smallest and average numbers of elderly persons to

whom the participating dentists provided dental services under the Programme in each of the past three years are tabulated below:

Financial Year 2016-2017 2017-2018 2018-2019

The largest number of cases handled by a dentist

237 486 370

The smallest number of cases handled by a dentistƩ

0 0 0

The average number of cases handled by a dentist

19 28 27

Note: Ʃ Some Community Care Dentists were not chosen by elderly persons to

provide service. Some Community Care Dentists also left the Programme after joining it.


The implementing agent of the Programme does not keep the number of dentists who did not provide such service. Under the arrangement of the Programme, the eligible elderly persons are allowed to choose dentists under the Programme out of their own volition, while the participation of dentists is on a voluntary basis. The duration of the dentists' participation will also affect the number of cases processed.

(4) The Government and the implementing agent will review the

implementation of the Programme on a regular basis (including the number of participating elderly persons and dentists). The Programme was expanded in February 2019 to cover elderly persons who are OALA recipients aged 65 or above. The number of participating elderly persons was about 66 200 as at end September 2019. Based on the figure that around 580 000 elderly persons are currently eligible for the Programme, the actual participation rate is about 11%. As more eligible elderly persons will apply for the Programme, it is anticipated that the overall number of participants will continue to increase.

On the other hand, there are many factors affecting the participation

of the Programme, including:

- some elderly persons do not see the need to wear removable dentures(1) (e.g. having good oral health, or having no intention to wear removable dentures even with missing teeth);

- some elderly persons do not submit application due to

personal reasons (e.g. being physically unfit for receiving dental services); and

- some elderly persons tend to avoid seeking medical

consultation or feel bothered by the treatment process, and refuse to apply.

(1) According to the Department of Health's Oral Health Survey conducted in 2011, while

about 25% of the elderly persons living in the community (i.e. non-institutionalized elderly persons) had the need to replace missing teeth, only 7% of them perceived the need.


765

As at end September 2019, a total of 617 dentists joined the Programme, accounting for one third of local registered dentists working in private sector.(2) This number is 2.5 times of those dentists participated at the launch of the Programme in 2012.

The Government and the implementing agent will continue to strive

to invite more eligible elderly persons and dentists to participate in the Programme through various activities and channels. For example, the implementing agent will arrange dentists to introduce the Programme and share the information on removable dentures to the public through television and radio programmes, and strengthen the promotion with over 190 service units (mostly elderly centres and community centres operated by NGOs) in order to encourage elderly persons' participation. Meanwhile, the implementing agent will continue their efforts to release the latest information of the Programme through the Hong Kong Dental Association's Newsletter, organize monthly briefing sessions for interested dentists to learn more about the operational processes and key points of the Programme, meet with dental professions by engaging in the Hong Kong International Dental Expo and Symposium to further promote the Programme as well as introducing how the Programme can benefit the daily living of elderly persons. The implementing agent will also endeavour to encourage the participating dentists to provide services for more eligible elderly persons.

(2) There are about 1 700 registered dentists working in private sector. Talent training for the insurance sector and the asset and wealth management sector 15. MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Chinese): President, in view of the persistent shortage of talents faced by the insurance sector as well as the asset and wealth management sector, the Government launched a three-year Pilot Programme to Enhance Talent Training for the Insurance Sector and the Asset and Wealth Management Sector ("Pilot Programme") in August 2016 to help promote these two sectors and enhance the professional competence of their practitioners. The initiatives under the Pilot Programme include public education, financial incentive schemes for professional training, summer internship programmes and a work-and-learn programme. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:


(1) of the respective numbers of participants in the professional training, summer internship and work-and-learn programmes since the launch of the Pilot Programme, as well as the latest progress of the various initiatives;

(2) whether it has assessed the effectiveness of the training and

promotional efforts under the Pilot Programme; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(3) whether it will regularize the Pilot Programme to train talents for

and attract new blood to the two sectors on an on-going basis, so as to seize the opportunities brought by the development of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area and the "Belt and Road" Initiative; and

(4) whether it will consider establishing an academy of insurance so as

to assist the insurance sector in training talents more effectively; if so, of the details and the timetable; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Chinese): President, our response to the various parts of the question is as follows:

(1) To nurture a rich pool of talents in support of the continued development of our financial services industry, the Government launched a three-year "Pilot Programme to Enhance Talent Training for the Insurance Sector and the Asset and Wealth Management Sector" ("Pilot Programme") in 2015-2016. The key outcomes of the initiatives under the Pilot Programme since August 2016 are set out below:

Key Outcomes

(August 2016-September 2019) Insurance Sector (a) Financial Incentive Scheme for

Professional Training ("FIS") 4 476 participants in 96 training courses.

(b) Internship Programme for Undergraduate Students

210 students.


767

Key Outcomes (August 2016-September 2019)

(c) Training Allowance for Work-and-Learn Programme ("WLP")

15 participants have completed or are participating in WLP.

(d) Public Education Programme Advertisements reached 8.8 million people while social media publicity generated 0.5 million clicks. School outreach programmes, various seminars and competitions attracted around 3 000 participants.

Asset and Wealth Management ("WAM") Sector (e) FIS Reimbursement for 1 434

applications in 80 to 90 eligible courses (each with multiple classes).

(f) Internship Programme for Undergraduate Students

180 students.

(g) Promotion and Education Initiatives

Promotion activities such as career fairs, career seminars, engagement events with industry practitioners/ regulators reached out to over 1 500 participants. Online media campaigns were also launched, recording over 80 000 clicks.

(2) Having reviewed the above initiatives under the Pilot Programme,

we presented the findings to the Legislative Council Panel on Financial Affairs in August 2019 on the outcome of the review and our plan to extend the Pilot Programme until 2022-2023, subject to the following refinements:


(a) for the insurance sector, (i) expanding the list of organizations that can apply for subsidy under FIS and (ii) discontinuing WLP given the lukewarm response; and

(b) for the WAM sector, (i) relaxing the eligibility of participants

and scheme rules to expand the pool of potential beneficiaries under FIS and (ii) expanding the pool of eligible students under the Internship Programme for Undergraduate Students.

(3) We will extend the Pilot Programme until 2022-2023 subject to the

refinements as outlined in part (2) above. We will review the Pilot Programme by 2022-2023 and consider the way forward taking into account relevant considerations including the merits, cost-effectiveness and feedbacks from stakeholders.

(4) The Financial Secretary announced the plan for an academy of

finance to be set up by the Hong Kong Monetary Authority ("HKMA") in the 2018-2019 Budget. The Hong Kong Academy of Finance ("AoF") was established on 26 June 2019 in collaboration with HKMA, the Securities and Futures Commission, the Insurance Authority and the Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Authority. AoF's mission is to serve as a centre of excellence for developing financial leadership, and a repository of knowledge in monetary and financial research, including applied research. The insurance sector is one of the key targets for AoF's leadership development programme.

We will continue to explore and devise, in consultation with industry

players and stakeholders, initiatives and programmes to promote and facilitate the development of financial services industry (including the insurance sector).

Foreigners being held at the airport for questioning and denied entry 16. MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that a former Secretary of Foreign Affairs of the Philippines, who arrived in Hong Kong with a diplomatic passport in June this year, was denied entry into Hong Kong


769

after having been held by the Immigration Department ("ImmD") for questioning for over five hours. In May this year, a former Ombudsman of the Philippines, who arrived in Hong Kong with an ordinary passport, was also held for questioning, notwithstanding that she was eventually granted entry. On the other hand, in March this year, these two persons, together with some Filipino fishermen, filed a lawsuit with the International Criminal Court against various Chinese officials, including the State President, for alleged crimes against humanity. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the general reasons for ImmD to reject the entry of foreigners;

(2) of the reasons for subjecting these two persons to the aforesaid treatment upon their arrival in Hong Kong, and whether such reasons include their posing security threats to Hong Kong;

(3) of the Central Authorities' roles in the immigration matters of the

Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("SAR"); whether the SAR Government had received any instruction beforehand from the Central Authorities regarding the entry of these two persons into Hong Kong; if so, of the details;

(4) whether the SAR Government's handling of the entry of these two

persons had been affected by the stance of the Central Authorities; if so, whether it has assessed if the Central Authorities had contravened (i) the principles and policies of implementing "Hong Kong people administering Hong Kong" and a high degree of autonomy in SAR, or (ii) Article 22 of the Basic Law; if it has assessed and the outcome is in the affirmative, of the follow-up actions; if the assessment outcome is in the negative, the justifications for that;

(5) whether, under those provisions of the Vienna Convention on

Consular Relations having the force of law in Hong Kong, ImmD is empowered to hold a foreigner with a diplomatic passport for questioning or to deny his/her entry; whether it has assessed if ImmD's treatment of the aforesaid diplomatic passport holder contravened the relevant provision(s); and


(6) whether it has assessed if the aforesaid incident, which has aroused much international concern, has adverse impacts on Hong Kong's international reputation and investment environment; if it has assessed and the outcome is in the affirmative, of the measures in place to prevent the occurrence of similar incidents; if the assessment outcome is in the negative, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, after consulting the relevant bureaux and departments, my consolidated reply to the question raised by Mr HUI Chi-fung is as follows: The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR") has been, in strict accordance with the Basic Law, implementing the principle of "one country, two systems" and exercising "Hong Kong people administering Hong Kong" and a high degree of autonomy. Immigration control is within the autonomy of HKSAR under the "one country, two systems" principle. Under Article 154(2) of the Basic Law, the HKSAR Government applies immigration controls on entry into, stay in and departure from HKSAR by persons from foreign states and regions. Pursuant to section 7(1) of the Immigration Ordinance (Cap. 115 of the Laws of Hong Kong), a person may not land in Hong Kong without the permission of the Immigration Department ("ImmD") unless the person enjoys the right of abode in Hong Kong, has the right to land in Hong Kong, or may land in Hong Kong without such permission by virtue of the Immigration Ordinance (such as being a member of the crew of an aircraft). The HKSAR Government will not comment on individual entry cases or make public any information concerning individual cases. In handling each entry case, ImmD decides whether to allow entry after giving due consideration to the actual circumstances of each case, having regard to the prevailing HKSAR laws and policies as applicable. Pursuant to section 4(1)(a) of the Immigration Ordinance, officers of ImmD may examine any person on his/her arrival in Hong Kong to verify his/her identity and consider whether he/she meets normal immigration requirements, such as whether he/she possesses a valid travel document, whether he/she possesses a valid visa or endorsement that corresponds to his/her purpose of entry, whether he/she has the arrangements and facilities to return to his/her place of domicile, whether he/she has sufficient funds for the proposed stay, whether he/she has any known adverse


771

records, his/her purpose of entry, etc. Section 11(1) of the Immigration Ordinance authorizes officers of ImmD to refuse to give visitors permission to land in Hong Kong after examination. Section 18(1)(a) of the Immigration Ordinance empowers officers of ImmD to remove persons who have been refused permission to land. The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations does not affect ImmD's lawful exercise of immigration control and right to conduct immigration examination on persons entering Hong Kong. It is the HKSAR Government's responsibility to uphold effective immigration control in Hong Kong and refuse entry of certain individuals when circumstances so warrant. The powers and duties of ImmD in exercising immigration control are comparable to those of the relevant authorities of other governments elsewhere. Hong Kong is a free and open society which subscribes to the rule of law. We will continue to welcome visitors from around the world to Hong Kong and make every effort to facilitate their entries and exits while duly exercising immigration control. This is an aspect that Hong Kong has been well recognized internationally. Unauthorized display of items in country parks 17. MR STEVEN HO (in Chinese): President, from time to time in recent years, there have been people displaying large vertical banners on prominent cliff faces or posting slogans and painting graffiti on both sides of hiking trails within country parks for expressing political aspirations or publicizing political messages. The Government has to spend public money and deploy manpower to remove such items and carry out clearance work. In recent months, there were again a spate of cases of displaying large vertical banners. Some members of the public are annoyed at this, and have expressed concern that the Government has all along been unable to curb such acts over the years. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the respective numbers of reports received in each of the past five years on unauthorized (i) display of vertical banners and (ii) posting of slogans and painting of graffiti in country parks; the procedure, manpower and expenditure involved in the operations to remove or clear such items;


(2) of (i) the number of patrols conducted in country parks and special areas for combating unauthorized display of vertical banners, and (ii) the number of operations conducted during patrols to remove or clear such items, by government officers in each month of the past five years; the respective manpower, expenditure and time involved in such operations;

(3) of the respective current staffing establishment of those civil servants

responsible for patrolling country parks and special areas;

(4) as the Country Parks and Special Areas Regulations (Cap. 208A) provides that no person without permission shall, within a country park or special area, display any sign, notice, poster, banner or advertisement, of the respective numbers of persons prosecuted and convicted in each of the past five years for unauthorized display of large vertical banners within country parks, and the punishments imposed on those convicted; if there were no cases of prosecution and conviction, whether it has studied if this situation was due to insufficient efforts in combating such acts; and

(5) whether it will raise the relevant penalties and step up law

enforcement efforts so as to curb this undesirable trend; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Chinese): President, our reply to the question raised by Mr HO is as follows:

(1) The Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department ("AFCD") received three (2015), four (2016), three (2017), three (2018) and 17 (as at end September 2019) cases of illegal display of large vertical banners in country parks in the past five years. Besides, the number of cases of posting slogans and graffiti were three (2015), one (2016), one (2017) and zero (from 2018 to end September 2019).

Upon receipt of the relevant reports, AFCD will conduct site

inspection and investigation as soon as possible. Depending on situations, AFCD will deploy staff to clean up or refer to the relevant government departments to follow up the cleaning action. For


773

cases of large vertical banners which were located in difficult terrains, joint removal operation will be carried out by various government departments, including the Fire Services Department ("FSD"), Government Flying Service ("GFS"), Hong Kong Police Force ("HKPF") and AFCD. Detailed information about the number of officers and time involved for handling cases of large vertical banners, etc. is set out in the Annex. Relevant departments do not keep separate breakdown on expenditure for handling this kind of cases.

(2) The number of patrols conducted in country parks and special areas

by AFCD in the past five years, as well as the number of officers and time involved for handling cases of large vertical banners are detailed in the Annex. Patrolling is part of the routine work of AFCD and we have no separate breakdown on the relevant expenditure.

(3) At present, a total of 149 frontline staff of AFCD (including 123

civil servants and 26 contract staff) are responsible for patrolling in country parks and special areas, enforcing the Country Parks Ordinance and other relevant legislation, as well as providing visitor services and performing work on publicity and education.

(4) According to the Country Parks and Special Areas Regulations

(Cap. 208A) ("the Regulations"), it is an offence to display any sign, notice, poster, banner or advertisement in country parks or special areas without a permit granted by the Country and Marine Parks Authority. Contravention of the relevant regulations is liable to a maximum fine of $2,000 and imprisonment for three months. In the past five years, there were two successful prosecutions against illegal display of banners in country parks under the Regulations and the fines were $500 and $700 respectively. AFCD has investigated the cases of illegal display of large vertical banners as mentioned in part (1) above, however, no suspect could be identified after the investigation and hence no further action could be taken.

(5) AFCD will continue to heighten patrols in country parks including

the locations previously involved in illegal display of large vertical banners, review the patrol routes and frequency from time to time,


and arrange special operations to deter activities contravening the Regulations as necessary. AFCD will prosecute against the offenders if there is sufficient evidence collected.

Annex

Handling of illegal display of banners/slogans/graffiti in country parks by the Government in the past five years

(1) Number of cases of illegal display of large vertical banners/slogans/graffiti

in country parks received by the Agriculture, AFCD and the number of patrols and cleaning actions involved:

Year

Number of cases of large

vertical banners

Number of cases of

slogans/graffiti

Number of patrols*

Number of cleaning

actions for large vertical

banners* 2015 3 3 15 381 3 2016 4 1 14 705 4 2017 3 1 14 747 3 2018 3 0 15 456 3

2019 (as at end September)

17 0 11 440 17

Note: * AFCD does not keep separate breakdown on the number of patrols and cleaning actions

for illegal display of large vertical banners/slogans/graffiti. (2) Number of officers and time involved for handling cases of illegal display

of large vertical banners in country parks by the relevant Government departments in each month# of the past five years:

Date Number of officers involved* Approximate time required (hours)

January 2015 51 28.4 February 2015 40 22.2 May 2016 52 37.2


775

Date Number of officers involved* Approximate time required (hours)

June 2016 56 17.4 March 2017 31 17 December 2017 59 24.9 March 2018 26 21.5 May 2018 26 8.5 September 2018 21 10.9 May 2019 120 32.7 June 2019 85 40.8 August 2019 87 25 September 2019 139 64.5 Notes: * Involved departments include AFCD, FSD, HKPF and GFS. # There was no case for months not listed in the above table. Vacant school premises under the Education Bureau 18. MR IP KIN-YUEN (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that the Education Bureau ("EDB") has planned to lend the premises of a primary school, which will soon be vacated, to a service organization for the visually impaired, for use as a decanting site for the sheltered workshop under it. Regarding the vacant school premises under EDB, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) when the application for borrowing the school premises concerned from the aforesaid organization was received, the time taken for vetting and approval of the application, and the reasons for approving the application, by EDB, and the duration of the tenancy;

(2) given that the facilities in the school premises concerned are not

even up to current standards, whether the Government had assessed if the school premises were suitable for operating a sheltered workshop or factory; if it had assessed and the outcome was in the affirmative, of the method and criteria adopted for the assessment, as well as the details of the assessment outcome (including whether the premises could accommodate the workshop's existing large-scale


machinery, whether the various floors could withstand the weight of such machinery, the maximum number of trainees that the premises could accommodate, and whether the workshop in operation would generate noise exceeding the standards);

(3) whether, before approving the said service organization's

application, EDB had received other applications for borrowing the school premises concerned; if so, of the details of such applications, including (i) the number of such applications, (ii) the dates of receipt, (iii) the nature of business in which the applicants were engaged, (iv) the proposed uses of the school premises, and (v) the reasons for such applications being rejected;

(4) of the long-term planned uses of the school premises concerned and

of its site;

(5) of the following details in respect of each application approved in each of the past five school years for borrowing school premises under EDB (set out in a table):

(i) the name of the school which had used the premises concerned

before the premises were left vacant,

(ii) the address of the premises,

(iii) the floor area of the premises,

(iv) the number of years for which the premises had been left vacant,

(v) the name and type of the borrower unit (e.g. policy

bureau/government department, school sponsoring body, non-profit making organization),

(vi) the proposed use(s),

(vii) the number of years of borrowing the premises, and

(viii) the charges/rents for borrowing the premises;


777

(6) of the current channel(s) through which the public can access the information about those vacant school premises under EDB that are available for borrowing; and

(7) whether non-governmental organizations ("NGOs") (including

schools) may apply for borrowing vacant or soon-to-be-vacated school premises under EDB at present; if so, of the details, including (i) the channel(s) for making applications, (ii) the vetting and approval procedure, (iii) the approving authority, (iv) the criteria for vetting and approval of applications, as well as (v) whether policy bureaux/government departments are given priority for borrowing the premises; if NGOs may not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Chinese): President, in response to the questions raised by Mr IP Kin-yuen regarding the use of vacant school premises ("VSP"), a consolidated reply is as follows:

(1) to (4) In response to a request from the Labour and Welfare Bureau raised

in March 2019, the Education Bureau reviewed the list of vacant and to-be-vacant premises under its purview with a view to identifying a suitable premises for decanting a Factory for the Blind ("Factory") under a service organization for persons with visual impairment during its in-situ redevelopment. At that time, it was envisaged that an aided primary school in Kwun Tong District would be reprovisioned to a new school premises in the same district in September 2019 and its existing school premises would be surrendered to the Government. On that concerned vacant school premises ("the concerned VSP"), the Education Bureau decided to earmark it for long-term school development use after conducting a review under the established mechanism for handling VSP. It was however anticipated that the concerned VSP would be left vacant in the coming few years before the development plan is taken forward. With the policy objective of putting VSP into gainful use in mind, the Education Bureau provided the related information to the Labour and Welfare Bureau for considering if the concerned VSP would be suitable for the intended short-term social welfare use by the concerned service organization.


It is understood that the Social Welfare Department has referred the proposal to the concerned service organization for consideration in April 2019. After assessing the nearby environment, traffic and site area of the concerned VSP, and conducting preliminary technical assessments, the service organization concerned considered the concerned VSP suitable for decanting its Factory. It is now conducting further planning work over the use of the concerned VSP, equipment and renovation arrangements, etc. The service organization concerned will ensure that the operation of the Factory at the decanting site will comply with relevant statutory requirements and standards. According to current plan, the service organization would need to use the concerned VSP up to 2025.

Apart from the Labour and Welfare Bureau, a time-limited school

has written to the Education Bureau in March for using part of the concerned VSP for school activities use. After considering all the relevant factors, including that the school concerned has already ceased to admit Primary One students as from the 2019-2020 school year, its actual operation arrangements, the prevailing mechanism for allocating school premises for school use, the concerned VSP may be used for temporary social welfare use, etc., it is considered that the request could not be acceded to.

(5) to (7)

It has all along been the Education Bureau's policy objective to put

VSP into gainful use. When there is a vacant or to-be-vacant school premises, the Education Bureau will assess the VSP's suitability for school or other educational uses having regard to factors including the size, location, physical conditions, etc., of the relevant premises, as well as the educational needs and relevant policy measures. When the Education Bureau confirms that VSP is no longer required by the Education Bureau for reallocation for school use, the Education Bureau will, in accordance with the Central Clearing House Mechanism, inform the Planning Department ("PlanD") and other relevant departments (such as the Lands Department and the Housing Department) for PlanD's consideration of suitable alternative long-term uses.


779

All VSP under the Education Bureau's purview are earmarked/retained for school or other educational uses, including catering for the anticipated demand for school places, reprovisioning of existing schools to improve their learning and teaching environment, decanting use by schools undergoing in-situ redevelopment or extension works, etc. As at end-August 2019, there were 10 VSP under the Education Bureau's purview which have been earmarked/retained for school or other educational uses. We are taking forward the allocation arrangements for five of VSP.

According to the prevailing school allocation mechanism, when the

Education Bureau confirms that a school premises can be allocated for school reprovisioning or physical extension use, the Education Bureau will in general conduct a School Allocation Exercise ("SAE") on an open, fair and competitive basis. The Education Bureau will make relevant announcement through press release and on its website to openly invite applications from all eligible organizations in the territory. Schools may consider if they would submit applications having regard to relevant announcement and their school-based considerations. Quality of education is the prime consideration of the School Allocation Committee, which comprises both official and non-official members, in assessing the applications. Other factors, such as operation track records of the school sponsoring bodies (if applicable), the school proposals after reprovisioning, condition of existing school premises, locations of the applicant schools (i.e. whether they are currently operating in the same district as the location of the new school premises), will also be taken into account.

For VSP that are pending deployment for long-term use but without

suitable short-term educational use for the time being, the Education Bureau, along the policy objective of putting VSP into gainful use, circulates information of such VSP within the Government on a half-yearly basis with a view to letting other bureaux/departments use such VSP for suitable short-term non-educational purposes. However, such VSP are not available for application by non-government organizations direct.


From the 2014-2015 to 2018-2019 school years, no VSP under the Education Bureau's purview has been used by other bureaux/departments for short-term non-educational purposes.

Provision of welfare facilities and services 19. MR VINCENT CHENG (in Chinese): President, the Financial Secretary announced in this year's Budget the allocation of $20 billion for the Government to purchase properties over some three years for the operation of welfare facilities and services, such as child care centres ("CCCs"), day care centres for the elderly, neighbourhood elderly centres, and on-site pre-school rehabilitation services. On the other hand, the Government has, in accordance with the recommendations in the Final Report of the Consultancy Study on the Long-term Development of Child Care Services, formulated a planning ratio for aided CCC places (i.e. 103 places for children aged below three per 20 000 persons). In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the respective current numbers of CCCs, day care centres for the elderly, neighbourhood elderly centres, district elderly community centres, and on-site pre-school rehabilitation service units in the territory, as well as the respective numbers and utilization rates of service places provided by them, with a breakdown by District Council ("DC") district;

(2) given that the Government plans to purchase properties for

providing at least one additional CCC in each DC district, whether this number is set according to the aforesaid planning ratio; and

(3) regarding the three DC districts of Sham Shui Po, Yau Tsim Mong

and Kowloon City respectively,

(a) of the current (i) number of service places, (ii) manpower and (iii) utilization rates in respect of each subsidized child care service in the district, and set out in a table the relevant details by name of organization providing the service;


781

(b) whether it has assessed if the provision of one additional CCC in the district can meet the demand of local residents for the relevant services; of the indicators (such as utilization rates) adopted for determining whether child care services in the district are adequate; and

(c) whether it will consider further increasing the number of

service places and manpower for subsidized child care services in the district, so as to alleviate the pressure on dual-income parents in taking care of their children; if so, of the details?

SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Chinese): President, my reply to the Member's question is as follows:

(1) The number of aided day child care centres ("CCCs") (including standalone CCCs and CCCs attached to kindergartens ("KGs")), subsidized day care centres/units for the elderly ("DEs/DCUs"), subvented neighbourhood elderly centres ("NECs") and subvented district elderly community centres ("DECCs") in the territory, their number of service places and average utilization rate by District Council ("DC") district are set out in Annex 1.

Regarding on-site pre-school rehabilitation services ("OPRS"), the number of service places has been increased to 7 074 in October 2019, with 60 service teams (equivalent to 70 standard service teams in size) operated by 21 non-governmental organizations ("NGOs") to provide on-site services for children with special needs studying in 852 KGs/KG-cum-CCCs. The overall service utilization rate is 93%. Since OPRS are allocated by operator, the Social Welfare Department ("SWD") does not have information on the number of service places or utilization rate broken down by DC district.


(2) The Government announced in the 2019-2020 Budget that $20 billion will be allocated to purchase properties over some three years for accommodating welfare facilities, including CCCs, to help meet the acute shortfall of premises.

Among the new services proposed to be set up in the premises

acquired through the purchase exercise, the Government has included the provision of at least one additional CCC in each district. The proposal is made having regard to factors such as new day services which are in acute demand, district profiles, preliminary assessment of the availability of suitable premises, and the number of planned projects of welfare facilities in specific districts, etc.

(3) (a) to (c)

To support parents who are unable to take care of their children temporarily because of work or other reasons, SWD provides subvention to NGOs to run a variety of child care services for meeting the different needs of parents and the children. In 2018-2019, the number of service places, average utilization rate and manpower of aided CCCs, extended hours service ("EHS"), occasional child care service ("OCCS") and the Neighbourhood Support Child Care Project ("NSCCP") in the Sham Shui Po, Yau Tsim Mong and Kowloon City districts are set out in Annex 2. As regards the name of the organizations providing the above services, details can be found in the SWD's website <https://www.swd.gov.hk/en/index/site_pubsvc/page_family/sub_listofserv/id_childcares/>.

To further enhance day child care services, apart from the proposal of purchasing suitable premises for the provision of one CCC in each of the Sham Shui Po, Yau Tsim Mong and Kowloon City districts as pointed out above, the Government has also reserved premises for the provision of CCCs in


783

development projects in the districts (for example, the proposed Joint-user Government Office Building (to be named as the Treasury Building) at the junction of Tung Chau Street and Tonkin Street West in Cheung Sha Wan, a private housing development project on Cheung Shun Street and housing development projects in the Kowloon City district) to further increase subsidized child care service places in the districts with a view to meeting the keen service need.

In respect of manpower, as more knowledge and skills are required for taking care of young children, and parents' expectation for quality service provided by CCCs (including the care and training of children) has been increasing, the existing manning ratios of qualified child care workers are improved in aided day CCCs on top of meeting the minimum statutory requirement. With effect from September 2019, the manning ratios for Child Care Workers serving in aided day CCCs have been enhanced from 1:8 to 1:6 for children aged 0 to below two; and from 1:14 to 1:11 for children aged two to below three.

To enhance the service quality of NSCCP, SWD will provide additional provision to the operators to increase professional and supporting staff to strengthen the training for home-based child carers commencing from January 2020, and raise the level of incentive payment for home-based child carers to encourage more volunteers to serve as child carers.

The Government will continue to adopt a multi-pronged approach and assess from time to time the community's demand for welfare services, identify suitable sites or premises for the provision of relevant facilities for meeting the needs of the localities or the community at large for welfare services.


Annex 1

Number of aided day CCCs(1), subsidized DEs/DCUs, subvented NECs, subvented DECCs by DC district, their service places and average utilization rate

District

Aided day CCCs(1) Subsidized DEs/DCUs

Subvented NECs Subvented DECCs

Num

ber o

f cen

tres

Num

ber o

f ser

vice

pl

aces

Av

erag

e ut

iliza

tion

rate

(%)(2

)

Num

ber o

f cen

tres

Num

ber o

f ser

vice

pl

aces

Av

erag

e ut

iliza

tion

rate

(%)(2

)

Num

ber o

f cen

tres

Num

ber o

f ser

vice

pl

aces

(3)

Aver

age

utili

zatio

n ra

te (%

)

Num

ber o

f cen

tres

Num

ber o

f ser

vice

pl

aces

(3)

Aver

age

utili

zatio

n ra

te (%

)

Central and Western

10 510 70% 4 129 96% 8 N.A. N.A. 2 N.A. N.A.

Eastern 18 420 5 256 12 4 Southern 8 294 2 108 8 2 Wan Chai 7 206 3 110 3 2 Kowloon City 16 584 3 158 9 3 Yau Tsim Mong 15 316 4 152 10 2 Sham Shui Po 14 369 8 280 12 3 Kwun Tong 24 563 10 427 21 4 Wong Tai Sin 17 405 6 290 14 4 Islands 5 284 2 40 4 1 Kwai Tsing 20 406 6 262 15 2 Tsuen Wan 11 286 5 154 7 1 Sai Kung 13 758 4 205 5 2 Sha Tin 21 497 7 318 13 3 Tai Po 9 182 1 64 7 1 North 11 366 1 44 5 1 Tuen Mun 20 575 4 208 8 2 Yuen Long 19 431 3 115 8 2 Total 258 7 452 78 3 320 169 41 Notes: (1) Including standalone CCCs and CCCs attached to KGs. (2) As at end March 2019. (3) NECs and DECCs are open to all persons aged 60 or above, and there is no limit on the number of service

places. Elderly persons may directly use the services provided by the centres without having to wait.


785

Annex 2 Number of Service Places, Average Utilization Rate/Number of Child Users and

Manpower of Aided CCCs, EHS, OCCS and NSCCP in Sham Shui Po, Yau Tsim Mong and Kowloon City districts

(2018-2019)

District Sham Shui Po

district Yau Tsim Mong

district Kowloon City

district

Aided CCCs

Places 369 316 584 Average utilization rate (%)

75 97 59

Manpower

According to the Child Care Services Ordinance (Cap. 243) and the Child Care Services Regulations (Cap. 243A), the manning ratios for Child Care Workers in day CCCs are 1:8 for children aged 0 to below two, and 1:14 for children aged two to below three. With effect from September 2019, the relevant manning ratios (including that of EHS) have been enhanced to 1:6 for children aged 0 to below two; and to 1:11 for children aged two to below three.

EHS


63 42 41

Manpower Ditto

OCCS


70 55 52

Manpower On every 3 places of OCCS, the notional staffing establishment is 0.5 child care worker and 0.5 relief child care worker.


District Sham Shui Po

district Yau Tsim Mong

district Kowloon City

district

NSCCP

Places

Service operators of every district are required to provide at least 39 home-based child care places and 14 centre-based care group places at any time throughout the year. They may increase the number of home-based child care places flexibly in addition to the minimum requirement set by SWD in order to meet the demand of the districts.

Average number of child users

1 135 970 630

Manpower

Home-based child care service: A home-based child carer may at any one time take care of not more than 3 children aged below 9 (including the carer's own children aged below 9). Centre-based care group: 1 adult may at any one time supervise a group of no more than 14 children aged from 3 to aged below 9.

Training courses offered as commissioned by the Employees Retraining Board 20. MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Chinese): President, will the Government inform this Council of (i) the number of training courses offered by each Training Body as commissioned by the Employees Retraining Board ("ERB"), and (ii) the amount of funding provided by ERB to each Training Body for offering such courses, in each of the financial years from 2017-2018 to 2019-2020? SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Chinese): President, my reply to the Member's question is as follows: The number of training courses approved by Employees Retraining Board for organization by the training bodies from 2017-2018 to 2019-2020 is at Annex 1. The amount of funding allocated to each training body for organizing training courses in the respective years is at Annex 2.


787

Annex 1

Number of Training Courses Approved by Employees Retraining Board for Organization by the Training Bodies from 2017-2018 to 2019-2020

(a) Number of training courses approved for organization in 2017-2018: Training Body Number of Training

Courses Approved 1 The Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions 198 2 HKCT Group Limited 194 3 The Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions 167 4 Yan Oi Tong Limited 92 5 Christian Action 92 6 Vocational Training Council 90 7 Hong Kong Employment Development Service

Limited 89

8 The Federation of Hong Kong and Kowloon Labour Unions

78

9 New Territories Association Retraining Centre Limited 78 10 KCRA Community Education Enhancement Center

Limited 73

11 Hong Kong Association for Democracy and People's Livelihood

61

12 Hong Kong Young Women's Christian Association 61 13 Methodist Centre 59 14 Baptist Oi Kwan Social Service 57 15 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Lady MacLehose Centre 52 16 The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Hongkong 52 17 Neighbourhood & Worker's Service Centre 52 18 Caritas―Hong Kong 51 19 School of Continuing and Professional Education, City

University of Hong Kong 46

20 Heung To College of Professional Studies 45 21 St. James' Settlement 45 22 Hong Kong Federation of Women's Centres 42 23 The Scout Association of Hong Kong―The Friends of

Scouting 38


Training Body Number of Training Courses Approved

24 The Young Men's Christian Association of Hong Kong 35 25 The Industrial Evangelistic Fellowship Limited 33 26 The Society of Rehabilitation and Crime Prevention,

Hong Kong 33

27 YMCA College of Careers 30 28 S.K.H. Holy Carpenter Church Community Centre 27 29 Hongkong School of Commerce 26 30 Aberdeen Kai-fong Welfare Association Limited 20 31 The Association of Electrical and Mechanical

Engineering (Hong Kong) Limited 18

32 Hong Kong Manpower Development Centre Limited 17 33 Hong Kong Electrical & Mechanical College (Evening

School) 16

34 Vassar International Chinese Medical Society Limited 16 35 OIWA Limited 15 36 The Hong Kong Society for Rehabilitation 14 37 Yang Memorial Methodist Social Service 9 38 Hong Kong Rehabilitation Power 8 39 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Welfare Council Limited 8 40 New Home Association Limited 8 41 Clothing Industry Training Authority 8 42 Royal International College 7 43 Advanced Printing Technology Centre Limited 5 44 Hong Kong Federation of Women Limited 5 45 Hong Kong Red Cross 5 46 Hong Kong Federation of Handicapped Youth 5 47 Hong Kong Tour Guides General Union 5 48 Hong Kong and Kowloon Gold Ornaments and

Jewellery Trade Workers' Union 5

49 New Life Psychiatric Rehabilitation Association 5 50 The Neighbourhood Advice-Action Council 5 51 Queen Elizabeth Hospital―Hospital Authority 4 52 Star Chef Management School operated by Star Chef

Management School Company Limited 4

53 The Mental Health Association of Hong Kong 3 54 Hong Kong Association of Gerontology 3


789


55 Hong Kong St. John Ambulance 3 56 College of Nursing, Hong Kong 3 57 Occupational Safety and Health Council 3 58 Li Fai Centre of Wushu 2 59 Hong Kong Workers' Health Centre Limited 2 60 Haven of Hope Christian Service 2 61 Hong Kong and Kowloon Electrical Engineering and

Appliances Trade Workers Union 2

62 Kwai Chung Hospital―Hospital Authority 2 63 Princess Margaret Hospital 2 64 Hospital & Clinic Nurses Association 2 65 Association for Engineering and Medical Volunteer

Services 1

66 Logistics Cargo Supervisors Association 1 67 Institute of Active Ageing, The Hong Kong

Polytechnic University 1

68 The Free Methodist Church of Hong Kong 1 69 Xianggang Putonghua Yanxishe 1 70 Hong Kong Ballroom Dancing Council Limited 1 71 The Hong Kong School of Motoring Limited 1 72 Kwan Sang Catering Professional Employees

Association 1

(b) Number of training courses approved for organization in 2018-2019:


1 The Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions 199 2 HKCT Group Limited 165 3 The Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions 136 4 Yan Oi Tong Limited 99 5 Vocational Training Council 91 6 Christian Action 90 7 KCRA Community Education Enhancement Center

Limited 81

8 The Federation of Hong Kong and Kowloon Labour Unions

80



9 New Territories Association Retraining Centre Limited 76 10 Hong Kong Employment Development Service Limited 75 11 Baptist Oi Kwan Social Service 70 12 Caritas―Hong Kong 69 13 Neighbourhood & Worker's Service Centre 69 14 Hong Kong Association for Democracy and People's

Livelihood 68

15 Methodist Centre 66 16 Hong Kong Federation of Women's Centres 62 17 Hong Kong Young Women's Christian Association 59 18 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Lady MacLehose Centre 54 19 St. James' Settlement 52 20 The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Hongkong 48 21 Heung To College of Professional Studies 46 22 The Young Men's Christian Association of Hong Kong 38 23 School of Continuing and Professional Education, City


24 The Society of Rehabilitation and Crime Prevention, Hong Kong

36

25 The Scout Association of Hong Kong―The Friends of Scouting

36

26 The Industrial Evangelistic Fellowship Limited 32 27 S.K.H. Holy Carpenter Church Community Centre 32 28 YMCA College of Careers 28 29 Aberdeen Kai-fong Welfare Association Limited 27 30 Hongkong School of Commerce 27 31 Vassar International Chinese Medical Society Limited 21 32 Hong Kong Electrical & Mechanical College (Evening

School) 17

33 The Association of Electrical and Mechanical Engineering (Hong Kong) Limited

16

34 Hong Kong Manpower Development Centre Limited 14 35 The Hong Kong Society for Rehabilitation 14 36 Royal International College 11 37 OIWA Limited 11


791


38 Yang Memorial Methodist Social Service 9 39 Clothing Industry Training Authority 9 40 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Welfare Council Limited 8 41 New Life Psychiatric Rehabilitation Association 7 42 Advanced Printing Technology Centre Limited 6 43 Hong Kong Rehabilitation Power 6 44 Hong Kong Federation of Handicapped Youth 6 45 Hong Kong and Kowloon Gold Ornaments and


46 The Neighbourhood Advice-Action Council 6 47 Hong Kong Red Cross 5 48 Star Chef Management School operated by Star Chef


49 Hong Kong Federation of Women Limited 4 50 Hong Kong Institute of Technology 4 51 New Home Association Limited 4 52 The Mental Health Association of Hong Kong 3 53 Hong Kong Association of Gerontology 3 54 Hong Kong St. John Ambulance 3 55 Haven of Hope Christian Service 3 56 Queen Elizabeth Hospital―Hospital Authority 2 57 Li Fai Centre of Wushu 2 58 Hong Kong Workers' Health Centre Limited 2 59 Hong Kong and Kowloon Electrical Engineering and


60 Kwai Chung Hospital―Hospital Authority 2 61 Princess Margaret Hospital 2 62 Silence Limited 2 63 Occupational Safety and Health Council 2 64 Logistics Practitioners Union(1) 1 65 Institute of Active Ageing, The Hong Kong Polytechnic

University 1

66 The Free Methodist Church of Hong Kong 1 67 Xianggang Putonghua Yanxishe 1 68 Hong Kong Ballroom Dancing Council Limited 1



69 The Hong Kong School of Motoring Limited 1 70 College of Nursing, Hong Kong 1 71 Hospital & Clinic Nurses Association 1 Note: (1) Logistics Cargo Supervisors Association was renamed as Logistics Practitioners Union in

2018-2019. (c) Number of training courses approved in 2019-2020: (2) Training Body Number of Training

Courses Approved 1 The Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions 313 2 HKCT Group Limited 218 3 The Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions 192 4 New Territories Association Retraining Centre Limited 138 5 Yan Oi Tong Limited 128 6 Christian Action 126 7 Hong Kong Young Women's Christian Association 122 8 Baptist Oi Kwan Social Service 113 9 Neighbourhood & Worker's Service Centre 112 10 KCRA Community Education Enhancement Center

Limited 112

11 Methodist Centre 107 12 The Federation of Hong Kong and Kowloon Labour

Unions 104

13 Vocational Training Council 104 14 Caritas―Hong Kong 102 15 Hong Kong Association for Democracy and People's

Livelihood 101

16 Hong Kong Employment Development Service Limited 98 17 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Lady MacLehose Centre 93 18 School of Continuing and Professional Education, City



793


19 The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Hongkong 74 20 Hong Kong Federation of Women's Centres 67 21 YMCA College of Careers 64 22 St. James' Settlement 63 23 Heung To College of Professional Studies 61 24 Hongkong School of Commerce 56 25 The Industrial Evangelistic Fellowship Limited 52 26 The Young Men's Christian Association of Hong Kong 50 27 The Scout Association of Hong Kong―The Friends of

Scouting 50

28 Aberdeen Kai-fong Welfare Association Limited 49 29 The Society of Rehabilitation and Crime Prevention,

Hong Kong 42

30 S.K.H. Holy Carpenter Church Community Centre 41 31 Vassar International Chinese Medical Society Limited 24 32 Hong Kong Manpower Development Centre Limited 19 33 Hong Kong Electrical & Mechanical College (Evening

School) 18

34 The Hong Kong Society for Rehabilitation 15 35 The Association of Electrical and Mechanical

Engineering (Hong Kong) Limited 14

36 Royal International College 13 37 OIWA Limited 13 38 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Welfare Council Limited 11 39 Yang Memorial Methodist Social Service 9 40 Hong Kong Federation of Handicapped Youth 8 41 Clothing Industry Training Authority 8 42 Hong Kong and Kowloon Gold Ornaments and


43 Advanced Printing Technology Centre Limited 6 44 The Neighbourhood Advice-Action Council 6 45 Hong Kong Federation of Women Limited 5 46 Hong Kong Institute of Technology 5 47 Hong Kong Red Cross 5 48 New Life Psychiatric Rehabilitation Association 5



49 Star Chef Management School operated by Star Chef Management School Company Limited

4

50 Queen Elizabeth Hospital―Hospital Authority 3 51 Hong Kong Association of Gerontology 3 52 The Hong Kong Federation of Youth Groups 3 53 Hong Kong St. John Ambulance 3 54 Haven of Hope Christian Service 3 55 Li Fai Centre of Wushu 2 56 Hong Kong Workers' Health Centre Limited 2 57 Hong Kong Rehabilitation Power 2 58 Hong Kong Ballroom Dancing Council Limited 2 59 Hong Kong and Kowloon Electrical Engineering and


60 Kwai Chung Hospital―Hospital Authority 2 61 Princess Margaret Hospital 2 62 Monita Hair & Beauty Academy 2 63 Silence Limited 2 64 Association for Engineering and Medical Volunteer

Services 1

65 Logistics Practitioners Union 1 66 The Mental Health Association of Hong Kong 1 67 Institute of Active Ageing, The Hong Kong Polytechnic

University 1

68 Xianggang Putonghua Yanxishe 1 69 The Hong Kong School of Motoring Limited 1 70 College of Nursing, Hong Kong 1 71 New Home Association Limited 1 72 Asia-Pacific Institute of Ageing Studies, Lingnan

University 1

73 Hospital & Clinic Nurses Association 1 Note: (2) Figures as at September 2019.


795

Annex 2

Funding Allocated to Training Bodies for Organizing Training Courses by Employees Retraining Board from 2017-2018 to 2019-2020

(a) Funding allocated to training bodies for organizing training courses in

2017-2018:

Training Body Funding ($'000)

1 HKCT Group Limited 71,807 2 Vocational Training Council 62,418 3 Christian Action 53,115 4 The Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions 51,688 5 The Federation of Hong Kong and Kowloon Labour Unions 34,337 6 The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Hongkong 27,533 7 New Territories Association Retraining Centre Limited 26,091 8 Yan Oi Tong Limited 25,554 9 Caritas―Hong Kong 23,808 10 Hong Kong Association for Democracy and People's Livelihood 23,778 11 Hong Kong Young Women's Christian Association 21,979 12 St. James' Settlement 18,013 13 Hong Kong Federation of Women's Centres 17,521 14 Baptist Oi Kwan Social Service 16,982 15 The Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions 15,053 16 Hong Kong Employment Development Service Limited 14,221 17 Methodist Centre 13,106 18 Heung To College of Professional Studies 13,095 19 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Lady MacLehose Centre 12,771 20 Neighbourhood & Worker's Service Centre 12,209 21 KCRA Community Education Enhancement Center Limited 11,146 22 The Association of Electrical and Mechanical Engineering (Hong

Kong) Limited 7,645

23 Queen Elizabeth Hospital―Hospital Authority 7,582 24 The Society of Rehabilitation and Crime Prevention, Hong Kong 7,116 25 S.K.H. Holy Carpenter Church Community Centre 5,109



26 Hong Kong Red Cross 5,086 27 Hong Kong Manpower Development Centre Limited 5,055 28 School of Continuing and Professional Education, City

University of Hong Kong 4,421

29 The Scout Association of Hong Kong―The Friends of Scouting 4,100 30 The Hong Kong Society for Rehabilitation 4,076 31 Vassar International Chinese Medical Society Limited 3,685 32 The Young Men's Christian Association of Hong Kong 3,657 33 Kwai Chung Hospital―Hospital Authority 3,024 34 Hongkong School of Commerce 2,840 35 Princess Margaret Hospital 2,795 36 Hong Kong St. John Ambulance 2,576 37 The Industrial Evangelistic Fellowship Limited 2,284 38 YMCA College of Careers 1,957 39 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Welfare Council Limited 1,873 40 Aberdeen Kai-fong Welfare Association Limited 1,781 41 Yang Memorial Methodist Social Service 1,481 42 Hong Kong Electrical & Mechanical College (Evening School) 1,303 43 College of Nursing, Hong Kong 1,147 44 Royal International College 1,094 45 Hong Kong Workers' Health Centre Limited 641 46 Hong Kong and Kowloon Electrical Engineering and Appliances

Trade Workers Union 604

47 Hong Kong Federation of Handicapped Youth 540 48 The Neighbourhood Advice-Action Council 500 49 Hong Kong Rehabilitation Power 396 50 Star Chef Management School operated by Star Chef


51 Institute of Active Ageing, The Hong Kong Polytechnic University

335

52 Hong Kong and Kowloon Gold Ornaments and Jewellery Trade Workers' Union

293

53 The Hong Kong School of Motoring Limited 292 54 The Mental Health Association of Hong Kong 264


797


55 Li Fai Centre of Wushu 252 56 Hong Kong Association of Gerontology 203 57 Clothing Industry Training Authority 198 58 New Life Psychiatric Rehabilitation Association 187 59 Hong Kong Federation of Women Limited 158 60 Hospital & Clinic Nurses Association 150 61 Xianggang Putonghua Yanxishe 128 62 OIWA Limited 98 63 Hong Kong Ballroom Dancing Council Limited 96 64 Advanced Printing Technology Centre Limited 91 65 Haven of Hope Christian Service 77 66 Occupational Safety and Health Council 11 67 Logistics Cargo Supervisors Association 10 68 Hong Kong Institute of Technology 6 (b) Funding allocated to training bodies for organizing training courses in

2018-2019:


1 HKCT Group Limited 73,806 2 The Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions 67,100 3 Christian Action 61,731 4 Vocational Training Council 59,981 5 The Federation of Hong Kong and Kowloon Labour Unions 37,924 6 The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Hongkong 33,683 7 Yan Oi Tong Limited 31,558 8 Hong Kong Young Women's Christian Association 26,721 9 New Territories Association Retraining Centre Limited 24,458 10 Caritas―Hong Kong 24,348 11 Hong Kong Federation of Women's Centres 24,154 12 St. James' Settlement 22,863 13 Hong Kong Association for Democracy and People's Livelihood 22,674 14 Baptist Oi Kwan Social Service 18,581



15 The Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions 14,272 16 Heung To College of Professional Studies 14,258 17 Neighbourhood & Worker's Service Centre 14,082 18 Methodist Centre 12,750 19 Hong Kong Employment Development Service Limited 12,517 20 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Lady MacLehose Centre 12,016 21 KCRA Community Education Enhancement Center Limited 11,144 22 The Association of Electrical and Mechanical Engineering (Hong

Kong) Limited 8,310

23 Queen Elizabeth Hospital―Hospital Authority 7,326 24 The Society of Rehabilitation and Crime Prevention, Hong Kong 7,013 25 Hong Kong Manpower Development Centre Limited 6,870 26 S.K.H. Holy Carpenter Church Community Centre 5,391 27 Hong Kong Red Cross 5,385 28 The Hong Kong Society for Rehabilitation 4,584 29 Vassar International Chinese Medical Society Limited 4,039 30 The Scout Association of Hong Kong―The Friends of Scouting 4,027 31 School of Continuing and Professional Education, City


32 The Young Men's Christian Association of Hong Kong 3,676 33 Hongkong School of Commerce 3,273 34 Kwai Chung Hospital―Hospital Authority 3,236 35 Princess Margaret Hospital 2,991 36 The Industrial Evangelistic Fellowship Limited 2,412 37 Hong Kong St. John Ambulance 2,070 38 Aberdeen Kai-fong Welfare Association Limited 2,029 39 Royal International College 1,761 40 YMCA College of Careers 1,694 41 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Welfare Council Limited 1,603 42 Yang Memorial Methodist Social Service 1,267 43 Hong Kong Electrical & Mechanical College (Evening School) 1,131 44 Hong Kong and Kowloon Electrical Engineering and Appliances


45 Hong Kong Workers' Health Centre Limited 581


799


46 Hong Kong Federation of Handicapped Youth 541 47 Star Chef Management School operated by Star Chef


48 College of Nursing, Hong Kong 443 49 Institute of Active Ageing, The Hong Kong Polytechnic

University 435

50 New Life Psychiatric Rehabilitation Association 431 51 Li Fai Centre of Wushu 416 52 The Hong Kong School of Motoring Limited 399 53 Hong Kong Association of Gerontology 349 54 The Neighbourhood Advice-Action Council 323 55 Hong Kong Rehabilitation Power 302 56 Clothing Industry Training Authority 295 57 Xianggang Putonghua Yanxishe 255 58 Haven of Hope Christian Service 251 59 Hong Kong and Kowloon Gold Ornaments and Jewellery Trade

Workers' Union 198

60 The Mental Health Association of Hong Kong 143 61 Hong Kong Ballroom Dancing Council Limited 104 62 Advanced Printing Technology Centre Limited 91 63 OIWA Limited 39 64 Silence Limited 32 65 Hospital & Clinic Nurses Association 24 66 Hong Kong Federation of Women Limited 17 (c) Funding allocated to training bodies for organizing training courses in

2019-2020:(3)


1 The Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions 37,322 2 HKCT Group Limited 31,928 3 Vocational Training Council 26,161 4 The Federation of Hong Kong and Kowloon Labour Unions 22,822



5 Christian Action 20,143 6 The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Hongkong 16,984 7 Yan Oi Tong Limited 15,065 8 Hong Kong Young Women's Christian Association 13,523 9 Caritas―Hong Kong 12,457 10 St. James' Settlement 11,656 11 Hong Kong Association for Democracy and People's Livelihood 11,565 12 Hong Kong Federation of Women's Centres 11,426 13 New Territories Association Retraining Centre Limited 10,899 14 Baptist Oi Kwan Social Service 7,190 15 Neighbourhood & Worker's Service Centre 6,967 16 The Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions 6,814 17 Hong Kong Employment Development Service Limited 5,565 18 Heung To College of Professional Studies 5,521 19 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Lady MacLehose Centre 5,285 20 Methodist Centre 4,808 21 KCRA Community Education Enhancement Center Limited 4,273 22 Queen Elizabeth Hospital―Hospital Authority 3,658 23 The Association of Electrical and Mechanical Engineering (Hong

Kong) Limited 3,644

24 Hong Kong Manpower Development Centre Limited 3,566 25 The Society of Rehabilitation and Crime Prevention, Hong Kong 3,052 26 The Scout Association of Hong Kong―The Friends of Scouting 2,611 27 The Young Men's Christian Association of Hong Kong 2,480 28 Vassar International Chinese Medical Society Limited 2,042 29 Hongkong School of Commerce 1,998 30 S.K.H. Holy Carpenter Church Community Centre 1,748 31 Kwai Chung Hospital―Hospital Authority 1,747 32 Hong Kong Red Cross 1,532 33 Princess Margaret Hospital 1,497 34 YMCA College of Careers 1,283 35 The Hong Kong Society for Rehabilitation 1,212 36 Royal International College 1,169 37 School of Continuing and Professional Education, City



801


38 The Industrial Evangelistic Fellowship Limited 994 39 Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Welfare Council Limited 988 40 Aberdeen Kai-fong Welfare Association Limited 980 41 Hong Kong Electrical & Mechanical College (Evening School) 869 42 Hong Kong St. John Ambulance 795 43 Yang Memorial Methodist Social Service 784 44 College of Nursing, Hong Kong 271 45 The Mental Health Association of Hong Kong 241 46 Hong Kong Association of Gerontology 235 47 Hong Kong Workers' Health Centre Limited 222 48 Li Fai Centre of Wushu 220 49 Clothing Industry Training Authority 145 50 Hong Kong Federation of Handicapped Youth 134 51 Haven of Hope Christian Service 118 52 Star Chef Management School operated by Star Chef


53 Hong Kong Rehabilitation Power 100 54 Institute of Active Ageing, The Hong Kong Polytechnic

University 91

55 Hong Kong and Kowloon Gold Ornaments and Jewellery Trade Workers' Union

75

56 The Hong Kong School of Motoring Limited 54 57 Hong Kong Ballroom Dancing Council Limited 52 58 Association for Engineering and Medical Volunteer Services 50 59 Hong Kong and Kowloon Electrical Engineering and Appliances


60 New Life Psychiatric Rehabilitation Association 31 61 Advanced Printing Technology Centre Limited 28 62 The Neighbourhood Advice-Action Council 26 63 OIWA Limited 16 Note: (3) Estimated figures as at September 2019.


PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now suspend the meeting. MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): President, I have a point of order. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI, what is your point of order? MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): President, in accordance with Rule 16(2) of the Rules of Procedure ("RoP"), I now propose a motion for the adjournment of the Council. I do so because … PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): As I am going to suspend the meeting anyway, I will deal with your request later on. MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): President, in accordance with RoP, this motion must be moved between two items of business. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Yes. I will now suspend the meeting and deal with your request afterwards. The meeting is now suspended. 1:23 pm Meeting suspended. 2:30 pm Council then resumed.


803

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Before the meeting was suspended, Mr HUI Chi-fung requested to move an adjournment motion in accordance with RoP 16(2). Mr HUI Chi-fung, please state your grounds very briefly. MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): Alright. Thank you, Mr LEUNG. In accordance with RoP 16(2), I hereby propose an adjournment motion. The Returning Officer's disqualification of Joshua WONG from standing in the District Council Election is the authorities' blatant attempt to trample on the civil and political rights of Hong Kong people and also an infringement of human rights. Most importantly, it will affect the fairness of the upcoming District Council Election. Mr LEUNG, I think this adjournment motion is of an urgent nature because there are only 24 days to go before the polling day of the District Council Election. Besides, it is worthwhile and all the more reasonable to propose this motion today for immediate debate rather than leaving our discussion until another date. The wording of my motion is … PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now suspend the meeting to deal with Mr HUI Chi-fung's request for moving an adjournment motion. 2:31 pm Meeting suspended. 3:39 pm Council then resumed. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI Chi-fung, you requested to debate the impact on the political right of Joshua WONG and voters of the relevant constituency resulting from the ruling on invalidating the nomination of Joshua WONG as a contestant in the District Council Election.


I am of the view that before the election, Members will still have plenty of opportunities to follow up this issue through various channels in this Council. Therefore, I do not consider the issue concerned to be so urgent that it must be debated at this Council meeting. Based on the consideration mentioned above, I rule that Mr HUI Chi-fung's proposed motion does not meet the requirements under RoP 16(2). MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): President, to you, nothing is urgent. But the point I am driving at is that the deprivation of one's right to stand in elections concerns the cardinal question of right and wrong. Are you saying that even so, there is still no room for discussion in the Legislative Council? How can you possibly abuse your power to such an extreme? I must raise a stern protest with you, and I also hope that you can reconsider this important issue concerning Hong Kong people. I urge you to allow Members to point out clearly in this Chamber today how the Returning Officer has abused her power and trampled on the rights of Hong Kong people. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I already explained my ruling just now. Members may follow up this issue through various channels in this Council. And the issue is not so urgent that it must be debated at this Council meeting. Therefore, I … MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): Are you saying that this issue is still not urgent even if there are only some 20 days to go before the election? Are you saying that this issue is still not urgent even if the election may become unfair? PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): RoP 44 stipulates that the President's decision shall be final. I have already made my ruling. MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): Your abuse of power is shameful! You are shameless! You have abused your power!


805

GOVERNMENT BILLS First Reading and Second Reading of Government Bills First Reading of Government Bills PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Government Bills: First Reading. SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2018-2019) BILL PHARMACY AND POISONS (AMENDMENT) BILL 2019 CLERK (in Cantonese): Supplementary Appropriation (2018-2019) Bill

Pharmacy and Poisons (Amendment) Bill 2019. Bills read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure. (Ms Claudia MO and Mr HUI Chi-fung shouted in their seats) PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Claudia MO, if you continue to shout in your seat, I will immediately order you to leave the Chamber. (Ms Claudia MO left the Chamber herself while Mr HUI Chi-fung continued to speak loudly in his seat) PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI Chi-fung, if you continue to speak loudly in your seat, I will order you to leave the Chamber. I have already explained to you the rationale for the ruling in detail. Second Reading of Government Bills PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Government Bills: Second Reading.


SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2018-2019) BILL SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): President, I move the Second Reading of the Supplementary Appropriation (2018-2019) Bill. Section 9 of the Public Finance Ordinance provides that: "If at the close of account for any financial year it is found that expenditure charged to any head is in excess of the sum appropriated for that head by an Appropriation Ordinance, the excess shall be included in a Supplementary Appropriation Bill which shall be introduced into the Legislative Council as soon as practicable after the close of the financial year to which the excess expenditure relates." Financial year 2018-2019 has already come to an end. Among the 84 heads of expenditure, the expenditure charged to 32 heads is in excess of the sum originally appropriated for these heads by the Appropriation Ordinance 2018. It is mainly for meeting additional expenses arising from the 2018-2019 Civil Service pay adjustment, injections into the Innovation and Technology Fund and the Elite Athletes Development Fund, as well as establishment of the Student Activities Support Fund. The Government has either sought the Finance Committee's approval for, or approved under an authority delegated by the Committee, supplementary provisions for all the additional expenditure. I now propose the Supplementary Appropriation (2018-2019) Bill to provide for a supplementary appropriation of about $36.8 billion in respect of 32 heads of expenditure, so as to be in line with the stipulation of section 9 of the Public Finance Ordinance. Thank you, President. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the Supplementary Appropriation (2018-2019) Bill be read the Second time. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the Second Reading debate is adjourned and the Bill is referred to the House Committee.


807

PHARMACY AND POISONS (AMENDMENT) BILL 2019 SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): President, I move the Second Reading of the Pharmacy and Poisons (Amendment) Bill 2019 ("the Bill") which seeks to enhance the regulation on advanced therapy products ("ATPs") for human use, including gene therapy, somatic cell therapy and tissue engineered products. The rapid scientific advancement in the research and development of ATPs offers great medical potential for benefiting patients. At the same time, due to their complicated nature, the risks, the long-term side effects or deferred effects of ATPs need to be carefully managed. At present, there is no dedicated regulatory framework for ATPs in Hong Kong. In view of the high risks, the Government considers it necessary to introduce a clear and dedicated regulatory framework on the research and therapeutic use of ATPs in order to safeguard public health. In addition, while other pharmaceutical products are mainly manufactured by pharmaceutical factories, the manufacture of ATPs can be in small batch and personalized. As such, introducing a clear regulatory framework with international standards can facilitate the research and development of scientific institutions. The Bill will amend the definition of pharmaceutical products under the Pharmacy and Poisons Ordinance (Cap. 138) by making ATPs a specific subset of pharmaceutical products under the Pharmacy and Poisons Ordinance. As such, requirements for pharmaceutical products under the Pharmacy and Poisons Ordinance and other relevant ordinances will apply to ATPs. Moreover, it is proposed in the Bill that we should make reference to international practices by imposing specific labelling and record-keeping requirements on licensed manufacturers of ATPs. Last year, the Government conducted a public consultation on the proposed regulatory framework, and the respondents generally supported the proposal as it could provide a clear regulatory framework for development of ATPs. The Legislative Council Panel on Health Services was consulted on the legislative proposal in April this year. Panel Members generally supported the proposal


and urged the Government to introduce the Bill as soon as possible to safeguard public health. President, I implore Members to support the Bill which seeks to provide for a regulatory framework for ATPs. I so submit. Thank you, President. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the Pharmacy and Poisons (Amendment) Bill 2019 be read the Second time. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the Second Reading debate is adjourned and the Bill is referred to the House Committee. Council became committee of the whole Council. Consideration by Committee of the Whole Council

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Council now becomes committee of the whole Council to continue the consideration of the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019. The committee will continue to hold the joint debate on the clauses and amendments (including the amendment to the long title). Members may refer to the Appendix to the Script for the debate and voting arrangements for the Bill. I remind Members once again that speeches delivered during the Committee stage should be focused on the clauses and amendments, including the amendment to the long title, and I hope Members would avoid digressing from the subject. Does any Member wish to speak?


809

Stand-over item: Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 (standing over from the meeting of 26 June 2019) INLAND REVENUE (AMENDMENT) (TAX CONCESSIONS) BILL 2019

IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): Chairman, the scrutiny of the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 ("the Bill") has now entered the Committee stage, and we are now dealing with clauses 1 to 5 as well as two amendments moved by the Government. The first amendment is moved to the long title to reflect that the Bill seeks to implement the tax reduction proposals made by the Government in 2019. Another amendment seeks to amend clause 5, so that the prescribed percentage for tax reduction of salaries tax, profits tax and tax under personal assessment for the year of assessment 2018-2019 will be increased from 75% to 100% while retaining the ceiling of $20,000 per case, thereby implementing the second round of relief measures announced in mid-August to "hand out candies". The amendment moved to the long title is merely a technical amendment of a textual nature, while the one moved to clause 5 seeks to endorse and expedite the implementation of measures committed to benefit people and relieve their hardship. I reckon that Members of this Council would basically not object to these proposed amendments, and even though they may have different views, it is most likely that they will criticize the Government for the inadequacy of the relief measures and its slow implementation of these measures swiftly. As a matter of fact, when representatives of the Business and Professionals Alliance for Hong Kong ("BPA") met with Financial Secretary Paul CHAN on 13 December 2018 to submit BPA's proposals on the Budget for the financial year 2019-2020, we have already strongly recommended that the Government should increase the basic allowance to $150,000, widen the tax bands further, reduce both salaries tax and tax under personal assessment and increase the tax-reduction ceiling to $35,000, thereby easing the burden of the grassroots and middle-class wage earners. We are therefore a bit disappointed indeed at the Government's decision to retain the tax-reduction ceiling of $20,000 per case. The anti-extradition bill movement has caused an uproar, and given that all trades and sectors have been seriously affected, the plight of the grassroots and middle-class wage earners is becoming more noticeable. There is indeed a need for the Government to enhance the relief measures.


Chairman, the second round of measures announced by the Government in mid-August to "hand out candies" also include, inter alia, the provision of an electricity charge subsidy of $2,000 to each household, the payment of one month's rent for tenants of public rental housing, and these measures will hopefully relieve the living burden of the grassroots and the middle class in the short run. As for enterprises and the business sector, the Government will waive 27 groups of government fees and charges for 12 months to benefit small and medium enterprises ("SMEs"), make enhancements to the loan guarantee products and introduce new products under the SME Financing Guarantee Scheme, provide additional injections into the Dedicated Fund on Branding, Upgrading and Domestic Sales (commonly known as the "BUD Fund") and the SME Export Marketing Fund, with a view to relieving the operation burden of SMEs in the short term. It is estimated that the second round of relief measures will cost an additional funding of about $19.1 billion in total. However, even if the tax concession proposals put forward in the Government's amendments can be passed smoothly in this Council today, actions can only be taken after funding approvals have been sought from the Finance Committee of this Council to follow up on and implement other proposed measures, such as the waiving of one month's rent as well as the provision of additional injections into the BUD Fund. Chairman, in the past four months or so, Hong Kong has been beset by the political unrest brought by the opposition to the proposal to amend the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance, and with the continual escalation of violence by the extremists, all trades and sectors have suffered a heavy blow. The business environment of many trades and industries has deteriorated rapidly, thus putting their practitioners in dire straits. Under such severe conditions, the Government announced the third round of relief measures one day before the resumption of Second Reading debate on the Bill in this Council (i.e. on 22 October), with a view to providing support to certain trades and industries that have been seriously affected by violent protests. These measures include the provision of a fuel subsidy for commercial vehicles of the transport trade for six months, as well as the introduction of a rental reduction by 50% for six months with effect from October for fee-paying public car parks and catering and retail outlets under the Government. The Financial Secretary has also appealed for the participation of more property owners and developers, and encouraged them to actively consider providing assistance to their tenants with the introduction of rental reductions. Two days later, the Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development, Edward YAU, announced another plan to roll out a cash incentive scheme to support travel agents. Under the scheme, cash incentives will be provided to


811

travel agents on the basis of the number of overnight travellers they serve. Travel agents will get $120 for each inbound visitor and $100 for every outbound traveller they serve, and every agent can receive up to $60,000. The objective of the scheme is to give travel agents a cash incentive to attract more visitors. The scheme is expected to be implemented in November and will last for over four months. The maximum commitment is about $100 million, involving approximately 850 000 visitors. According to the Financial Secretary, the third round of relief measures will cost a total of about $2 billion. According to the amendment proposed to clause 5, the specified percentage for reduction of the three types of taxes will be increased from 75% to 100%, and the proposal is worth supporting. Yet, the proposed measure is nothing more than a patchy fix as it is actually not that effective in alleviating people's hardship. Chairman, I, together with my fellow colleagues from BPA, have repeatedly conveyed the plight and operating difficulties faced by the business and professional sectors through various different channels since July, including making appointments to meet with the Financial Secretary and the Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development, and we have put forward proposals to "support enterprises, safeguard jobs, strengthen livelihoods". We are glad to see that the Government has subsequently enhanced the strength of the measures to benefit people and relieve their hardship, and has adopted some of our proposals. As a matter of fact, the three rounds of one-off measures announced to "hand out candies" will cost the Government a total of about $64 billion, accounting for a very high percentage of its consolidated surplus of $68 billion recorded in the previous financial year. Having said that, judging from the current social environment and political situation, we are of the view that our economic downturn may be far worse than what the Government has anticipated. In fact, all sectors of the economy are in great difficulties: As far as tourism industry is concerned, the downward trend in visitor arrivals has speeded up since August, and the reduction worsened when a sharp fall of nearly 50% was recorded in the first half of October. With regard to the hotel industry, the average occupancy rate of hotel rooms has plunged by 28% in August, and this is the greatest drop recorded since the outbreak of SARS in 2003. The retail sector is no exception, with the decline in sales reaching 25.3% as at August, which is the biggest monthly drop Hong Kong has ever seen. As for the catering sector, the overall business has dropped by more than 35% since June, resulting in the closures of about 300 restaurants.


As revealed by the data for the first nine months of this year, the number of bankruptcy petitions filed in Hong Kong was as high as 5 940, while the number of receiving or bankruptcy orders issued also reached 5 662. During the same period, 302 compulsory winding-up petitions were filed to court, and 187 winding-up orders were issued. According to the estimation made by trade practitioners, the number of bankruptcy cases will increase, and more and more wage earners will be rendered jobless. A more crucial problem is that when there is no sign of a complete end to the social disturbances and consumer sentiment keeps weakening, how serious the situation would get? Getting married is an important event in life, but the results of a recent survey reveal that affected by the social atmosphere these days, more than half of the respondents have to change their wedding plans. Among them, 12% of the respondents (an estimation of about 6 000 couples) have to postpone their wedding to a later date, while another 1% of the respondents (amounting to about 500 couples) have even indicated an intention to cancel their wedding plans. This has resulted in a huge loss to restaurants providing wedding banquet service and medium, small and micro enterprises providing wedding service. As rightly pointed out by practitioners in the catering and retail sectors, if there is no business to do, the offer of rent reductions by the Government or private property owners will not be of much help. At a meeting of the Panel on Economic Development held earlier, I have suggested to Secretary Edward YAU that the authorities should consider distributing consumer coupons to visitors and even all people in Hong Kong, thereby providing an incentive to stimulate consumer spending, which can in turn help the catering and retail sectors to endure the current economic winter. Chairman, why should we support the amendments under discussion even though they are nothing more than a patchy fix? I have already emphasized during the resumption of Second Reading debate on the Bill that Hong Kong is now facing a double whammy. On the one hand, there is a resurgence of social unrest in Hong Kong, while on the other hand, there are full of uncertainties in the external global economy, putting Hong Kong under greater pressure of an economic downturn, and these are not scaremongering remarks. The Financial Secretary pointed out earlier that following the negative quarter-on-quarter growth in the second quarter, if the same trend continued in the third quarter, it would imply that the Hong Kong economy had entered a technical recession. If there is no improvement to the situation, we will not only be unable to achieve an


813

annual economic growth of 0% to 1% as originally forecast but will also record a negative economic growth for the whole year. BPA certainly hopes that the SAR Government will closely monitor our economic situation, genuinely listen to the views of the people and various trades and sectors, make good use of its financial reserve, timely introduce more relief measures, and keep up its efforts in "supporting enterprises, safeguarding jobs, strengthening livelihoods". However, I am afraid that no one can tell for sure how many more rounds of relief measures that the Government will have to introduce in the days ahead to "hand out candies" as we commonly refer to. If the economic situation keeps worsening, there will definitely be a drop in government revenue, but at the same time, there may be a need for more enhanced relief measures to "hand out candies". Under such circumstances, will the Hong Kong economy and the Government's financial burden fall into a vicious cycle of double shrinkage? If the situation is allowed to continue, where can we get the "candies" to hand out? Although there is still a huge financial reserve for the time being for us to rely on, how can we avoid being driven to a tight corner one day when our reserve is depleted? Chairman, I am sure that most of us would agree that no matter how many rounds of relief measures the Government has introduced, they can only serve to relieve the pressing need of trade practitioners. If the introduction of relief measures is not accompanied by efforts to curb violence and vandalism by the extremists, the effectiveness of these relief measures will definitely be significantly discounted, and they may not even be able to achieve the effect of providing a temporary solution to the problem, let alone a permanent solution. Undoubtedly, the fundamental solution and the immediate priority of the SAR Government is to adopt strong and forceful measures as soon as possible to stringently enforce the law, so as to enable society to expeditiously resume its normal order, and only on this basis can we further develop economy and improve people's livelihood. All sectors of the community, including fellow Members in this Council from different political parties and groups, should also put aside their political differences as soon as possible, put an end to their meaningless disputes, and do practical things for people's livelihoods. With these remarks, Chairman, I support the passage of the Bill and the amendments proposed by the Government.


CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I remind Members once again that as we are now in committee of the whole Council, please focus your speech on the clauses and amendments, and do not talk about the pros and cons of the Bill. Mr Jeffrey LAM, please speak. MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): Chairman, the proposal in the Committee stage amendment is among the first round of relief measures announced by the Government in August, that is, to increase the tax reductions of salaries tax and profits tax from 75% to 100%, while retaining the ceiling of $20,000. Over the years, I remember that the Government offered tax concession of 100% in 2009 only. We should still remember that Hong Kong experienced the financial tsunami back then and coupled with the human swine influenza pandemic, resulting in a negative social sentiment. At that time, the Government had introduced a series of relief measures with a very simple and clear purpose, namely to "support enterprises and safeguard jobs", including increasing the percentage of tax deductions from 50% to 100% at one stroke and adjusting the ceiling upwards from $6,000 to $8,000. If the impact of the external shocks in those days was deemed critical, then this year's situation is utterly unexpected as we are under both internal and external pressure. It can be said that both Hong Kong people and local enterprises are unprecedentedly heavy-hearted at this moment. Our whole society is in dire straits, reminding us of the phrase, "support enterprises, safeguard jobs". The Business and Professionals Alliance for Hong Kong has proposed to the Government a number of immediate relief measures, including allowing current borrowers of 80% Guarantee Product under the SME Financing Guarantee Scheme to repay the interest but not the principal in the next six months. We also propose to introduce 90% Guarantee Product and encourage banks to grant loans to the commercial and industrial sectors in a more proactive manner to provide financing facility to small and medium enterprises ("SMEs") in a bid to ease their burden. As regards the provision of a 100% tax reduction, this is of course a good thing, but I do think setting the ceiling at $20,000 is inadequate. Last year's Budget proposed a ceiling of $30,000 for tax reduction, and it seems justified to raise this year's ceiling given the prevailing difficult situation … (A phone rang inside the Chamber)


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MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): Chairman, would you please find out who are making trouble here? (The phone stopped ringing) CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Jeffrey LAM, please continue with your speech. MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): Chairman, what we are now discussing is a very serious subject and all of us do wish to come up with measures that can help local SMEs tide over the tough times. Yet, some people still behave like a child in an attempt to mess up the meeting. Not only do these people not care, but they even seek to add fuel to fire despite the dire situation. Their such deeds will only make Hong Kong people's life even more difficult. Chairman, as I have mentioned just now, the overall circumstances of this year are tougher than those in 2009 and worse than last year's, but the Government has lowered last year's tax reduction ceiling of $30,000 to $20,000 this year, which we consider to be inadequate. In fact, the ceiling should be raised under the present circumstances, say, from $30,000 to $40,000, so as to better help the SMEs. All along, Hong Kong has been implementing a low and simple tax regime, thus the Government should provide a direct tax reduction in full if it means to offer tax relief as this will be more convenient for calculation and save administrative costs. Since the Government often complains about its manpower constraint, it should not take a complicated approach. In my opinion, a one-off direct tax reduction will be more effective because this will make it possible for money to be returned to the hands of the public more quickly while saving the working hours of the Inland Revenue Department. As far as enterprises are concerned, this amendment will only relieve them of $5,000 in tax payment, which is only a drop in the ocean, but it is definitely better than none. However, a few thousand dollars' tax rebate will mean a more significant relief for a wage earner's family. We advocate "support enterprises, safeguard jobs" precisely because we have seen the grave difficulties encountered by a large number of enterprises in trying very hard to keep their heads above water. The owners of some SMEs have even realized all their personal assets to


keep the ball rolling, almost to the point of pawning their underpants. In short, they are striving for the survival of their companies for as long as can be. Nevertheless, some of the SMEs had closed down still, and what follows is the unemployment problem facing their former employees. As cited by the Financial Secretary in his speech at the press conference on the launch of the package of relief measures in August, the figures in the statistics (including those of exports of goods, container throughput, private consumption expenditure and the retail sales volume) all recorded significant declines, in particular the number of visitor arrivals which fell sharply. Due to the ongoing social incidents coupled with some politicians' continuing to fuel the fire, various industries, such as trading, logistics, retailing, catering and tourism are hit hard. Up to the present, more and more SMEs have become unable to survive, and since commercial activities are closely linked to one another, it is natural that all sectors are gravely affected. Hence, members of the commercial and industrial sectors gathered together to discuss ways of getting out of the recent dilemma (e.g. how to cut expenses, etc.). As far as I know, some companies required employees to take no-pay leave, while others even helplessly laid off staff for the purpose of downsizing. Some business operators keep running their companies in spite of the losses suffered for consecutive months simply because they do not want to see their employees lose their jobs. However, there are also many people who really do not have the means and can only mortgage their properties to banks for loans, but owing to the banks' stringent mortgage underwriting standards, the loan-to-value ratio will probably be around 30% or 40% only, which is indeed … CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Jeffrey LAM, please speak on whether you support the contents of the provisions and the amendments. MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): Chairman, I do support the amendment, but the point is: how should the Government use the money it has saved to help the SMEs? It is very important. And so, I take this opportunity to express my views to Members. Although I have not yet indicated if I support the amendment or not, but please let me finish what I want to say first as my speech for today will end soon.


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I have mentioned just now that SMEs may only be able to borrow money equivalent to 30% or 40% of the values of their properties concerned due to the banks' stringent mortgage underwriting standards. We are not saying that this kind of loan will be of no help at all, but it will be of very little help indeed if the property is mortgaged to secure a loan within the Special Stamp Duty period because additional stamp duty must be paid in this case. Chairman, I now revert to the subject on the special relief measures aimed to support enterprises and safeguard jobs. I am of the view that while the Government has taken the initiative to increase the tax reduction amount, all quarters of society may also go the extra mile and make every effort to propose feasible solutions. For example, we have suggested that the Government should launch a cash incentive scheme for travel agencies, which is meant to be the best possible way of rendering help to relevant industries, so that the jobs of industry players can be safeguarded. When a company can manage to hold on in the long run, its employees will not lose their jobs, so both the boss and his employees can work together to tide over hardships. Business will resume as soon as possible after the social unrest is over. We understand that providing $120 in cash incentives alone may not be adequate to help all travel agencies solve all their problems, but by adopting a multi-pronged approach, putting in place an array of relief measures (including the provision of tax relief, credit guarantee schemes, SME Export Marketing Fund, rent reduction, LPG subsidy for motor vehicles, etc.), and if we do our best to help, more people will benefit as a result. Chairman, people often say that one must be among the taxpayers before one can enjoy tax reductions, but in the very first place, one must be an income earner before becoming an eligible taxpayer. I believe everyone does long for a cozy home and a good job, and the aspiration of the majority of the public is to live an affluent life. However, the relief measure in question can only be of little help, and so the only way to revive Hong Kong's economy is to face squarely the existing political problems and we must put an end to the political turmoil as soon as possible in order to restore social stability. Chairman, we have lived in Hong Kong for decades and enjoyed social stability for over half a century. Never have we imagined that Hong Kong could become what it looks like at the moment. There is a group of people who are seeking "mutual destruction", while another group of people, who are well aware that "mutual destruction" will harm the general well-being and interests of the


people of Hong Kong, still encourage the public to take part in riots to keep destroying Hong Kong and ruining the good life of each of us that we used to lead. Is this their "noble ideal" to vandalize public properties and shops, deliberately damage the local economy, cause more people to lose their jobs and make the social environment worse? Please reflect deeply: What do you really want? What are you doing right now? I really do not wish to see people keep doing the wrong things. Chairman, we support the amendments. Chairman, I so submit. MR LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, in this discussion today, the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 ("the Bill") has already entered the stage of the committee of the whole Council, and the amendments being deliberated include the long title and clause 5. This Bill has already been under the deliberation process of over 10 hours. In fact, this is a bill concerning tax concessions which had my full support originally. But after deliberation and hearing some different opinions, I have certain views on it. Taking this opportunity, I would like to share my new thinking on this Bill. As we all know, this Bill is about the one-off tax reduction of 75% involving salaries tax, tax under personal assessment and profits tax for the year of assessment 2018-2019 proposed by the Government. On 15 August this year, the Financial Secretary proposed to increase the reduction from 75% to 100% for the year of assessment 2018-2019 while retaining the ceiling of $20,000 per case. Anyway, I have done some research and compared this measure with the initiative of "handing out candies" for the financial year 2017-2018. Back then under the "candy" initiative, the tax reduction rate for salaries tax, tax under personal assessment and profits tax was 75% and the ceiling was $30,000 per case, while the marginal tax band was increased from $45,000 to $50,000. This adjustment to the marginal tax band cost the Government $22.6 billion in tax money that year. This year, we have a similar tax concessionary measure. The original version was a reduction of 75% of salaries tax, tax under personal assessment and profits tax for the year of assessment 2018-2019 with a ceiling of $20,000 per case, as a result, the Government will forgo approximately $18.9 billion in tax revenue. The Financial Secretary now proposes to increase the concession rate to 100% while retaining the ceiling of $20,000 per case.


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Compared with the tax concessionary measure last year, we notice that the ceiling is lowered this year. A comparison between these years indicates that the Government will only receive about a few billion dollars more in tax revenue. To the Government, this is not considered a very heavy burden and is an affordable concessionary measure. However, why does the Financial Secretary make this decision this year? This decision reminds me of the extremely limited support to the middle class in the latest Budget. During the past few financial years, the support and relief measures to the middle class in the Budgets and even the Chief Executive's Policy Addresses were highly insufficient. In terms of the Government's supporting measures to the middle class at present, apart from tax concessions, we fail to see any measure in other aspects. Hence, has the Government done its best in the amendments on the tax concessionary measure? In the debate last week, I already expressed my support to this Bill. But after looking through the information and listening to the opinions of not a few colleagues, I came to a different view. Nowadays, most of the general expenditure of the middle class is on housing mortgage payments, expenses on children's needs and supporting elderly parents. But in fact, one of its major expenditure items is tax payment. In the distribution of wealth in society, the middle class shoulders the heaviest burden due to these expenses, and their quality of life is getting low. However, the middle class benefits the least from the Government's measures. Hence in this law amendment crisis, the middle class walks to the fore front of the movement, constituting the largest group of people in strongest support of the protest. This is a pernicious consequence brought by the lack of support and care from the Government to the middle class. In this amendment to the tax concessionary measure proposed by the Government, the ceiling is still retained at $20,000. Is the assistance to the middle class insufficient? I have also found some information. Over the past decade, the price index in Hong Kong was recorded a year-on-year increase of about 2.6% on average. In regard to the income of the middle class, we can look at a more obvious example, and I will take the income of public officers as an example. In 1997, point 2 of the Directorate Pay Scale was $111,000, while in 2018 (i.e. last year), it was increased to $171,200. If we look at the average growth rate of income


over these 21 years, it was an increase of approximately $2,900 per year, or a growth rate of about 2.6%. What is the most significant expenditure of the middle class? It is the monthly mortgage payment. As regards the growth rate of mortgage expenses, we can make a comparison of the prices of major housing estates per square foot. In the example of City One Sha Tin in the New Territories, the price was $4,823 per sq ft in 2008, but was increased to $17,770 per sq ft in 2018, with a growth rate of 269%. In the example of Kornhill on the Hong Kong Island, the price was $7,193 per sq ft in 2008, but was increased to over $13,000 per sq ft in 2018, with a growth rate of 156%. As we can see, the growth rate of housing prices is many times greater than that of income, putting phenomenal pressure on the general public and the middle class. However, the Government is offering completely disproportionate tax concessions to the public, giving only minimal help to the middle class. Hence, the middle class is most dissatisfied with the Government. Is this tax concessionary measure from the Government or the measure of "handing out candies" in the Policy Address really helpful to the middle class? Hence, how can this movement or crisis come to an end because of these measures? I have to give a piece of advice to the governing officials that they need to see where the deep-seated conflicts lie. And in fact, figures can tell the whole picture. During this debate of over 10 hours in these two days, some colleagues mentioned the issue of tax base. In respect of this Bill, I know that tax base is not within the scope of discussion. But I would also like to mention that if the Government is reluctant to do anything in reforming the tax base, the administrative difficulties will not come to an end. Therefore, I wish that the Secretary or the public officers from government bureaux (including the Financial Secretary) who are listening to my speech can formulate better amendments for the future tax regime and tax base of Hong Kong. I so submit. Although I do not fully agree with the content of the Bill, I still support the Bill. Thank you.


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MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): Chairman, in this section, we will discuss the amendments to the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019. The amendments seek to increase the tax reduction percentage for the year of assessment 2018-2019 from 75% to 100% while retaining the ceiling of $20,000. It is estimated that about 1.43 million taxpayers or enterprises in Hong Kong will benefit from this measure, and wage earners across Hong Kong can enjoy a further saving of $1.84 billion in tax payment. Chairman, some people are of the opinion that the proposed tax reduction increase from 75% to 100% is not of much actual help to taxpayers given that the ceiling will still be kept at $20,000. Indeed, it is not a large increase. I must say it is just a drop in the bucket; but having said that, the small adjustment to 100% may well give a few thousand dollars of additional tax concession to sandwich-class workers or households. So, I think it is helpful to the sandwich-class households or workers that they can keep the money in their pocket. But, I must reiterate that the increase is just a drop in the bucket. Chairman, I notice that some Members just mentioned that the Government had set the tax reduction ceiling at $30,000 in a past tax reduction measure, and they criticized the Government for setting the ceiling at $20,000 only this time when Hong Kong is in a dire situation. Chairman, I wish to raise a point here. The present situation of Hong Kong is indeed extremely worrying. In addition to the external economic environment, including the persistent uncertainty of the China-United States trade war, the four-month long riots in Hong Kong also weigh down our economy. The riots, which are likely to persist, will deal a great blow to various sectors and industries of Hong Kong, including retails, catering and tourism. We can feel the desolation when we go out. People do not dare to go out over the weekend when the riots break out. The retails and catering industries are the first to bear the brunt. Many grass-roots people ask us what relief measures the Government will implement to help them. Indeed, shops and companies may wind up their businesses and their staff may become redundant anytime due to the present situation. Chairman, the unemployment rate of Hong Kong has risen to 2.9% for the first time over the past two years. As I pointed out in the past, experiences from other regions tell us that unemployment rate can remain at a rather stable level, but it may also shoot up suddenly. Hence, Chairman, let me say this again. If the SAR Government can understand the present economic hardship facing Hong Kong and the difficult situation besetting different sectors and industries, and if it understands the fact


that grass-roots citizens and workers may lose their jobs and become unemployed anytime, it should consider whether this so-called tax concession measure can truly help them. As I just said, the tax reduction ceiling of $30,000 in the past has been lowered to $20,000. Given the distressing economic condition at present, I truly think that this is a regressive measure. I thus wish to take this opportunity to voice this viewpoint. Chairman, some Members ask whether the tax concession can truly help the public, especially the sandwich class or the grass roots, under the present difficult economic environment. I wish to say that quite many people have been saying that the Government should consider giving cash handouts when the Treasury records a surplus in a financial year or when the Government can afford to do so. Chairman, I am definitely not saying that giving cash handouts should become a recurrent practice. The Government should give due consideration to the prevailing economic environment, the extent of its surplus or its fiscal capacity before doing so. However, if the Government intends to give cash handouts to all citizens, I hope that it will learn from its past experience. The Government has done so over the past, including the $6,000 cash handouts dished out for all citizens by the then Financial Secretary in 2011; and the $4,000 cash handouts by the incumbent Financial Secretary last year after giving an economic assessment of the time. But of course, the latter requires the applicants to be means-tested. It turns out that the Government needs to spend a substantial amount of time on the bureaucratic administrative procedures and also a lot of administrative resources on the means-testing process. We should still remember how the Government has given several hundred million dollars to the Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency ("WFSFA") to scrutinize the applications. The matter has prompted many to think that they will not be happy even if the Government manages to give them $4,000 cash, let alone the fact that to date, WFSFA may not have finished processing all the applications. I thus wish to take this opportunity to give the Government some advice. I hope that when the Government handles fiscal measures involving giving cash handouts to the public, such as directly giving cash assistance to grass-roots people, it will learn from this experience. If the Government cannot remove these administrative obstacles or administrative practices, and that it must adopt those bureaucratic and annoying methods, which keep applicants waiting and not knowing at what procedure or stage their applications have reached, and if such methods give rise to all sorts of problems, frankly, I would prefer that the


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Government gives cash handouts to all citizens and will not spend so much on those administrative procedures. In fact, quite many people say that they would rather use the few hundred million dollars on other measures than using it on conducting those administrative procedures. I hope the SAR Government can handle the arrangements of these fiscal policies with an unconventional thinking. Chairman, regarding the tax concession arrangement, I heard just now some Members say that given the distressing economic conditions at present, the Government should launch relief measures to alleviate the financial burdens of small and medium enterprises ("SMEs") and the people. We notice that the Government has begun launching some measures, including funding schemes to support SMEs, practices that allow them to repay only the loan interests and not the principal, etc. Moreover, in face of the present predicament, I hold that the Government should take the lead to lower rents for tenants of government premises. Likewise, semi-public bodies, such as the Airport Authority Hong Kong, should also take the lead to lower the rents of their premises. These can be a way to … CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Holden CHOW, please come back to the subject of the debate. MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): Okay, I will. Thank you. These certainly are feasible measures to address the present situation and to help people to address their difficulties. However, another important point I wish to bring out is that, apart from implementing tax concession and fiscal measures, the Government must also be resolute in stopping violence and curbing disorder. Chairman, frankly, the determination to stop violence and curb disorder is concerned, to be frank, we should not rely on one single department to do it. Chairman, I hope that the entire SAR Government, from top to bottom down, will work concertedly to stop violence and curb disorder. All departments should work in coordination to stop violence and curb disorder. They should not rely only on the law enforcement department, i.e. the Police, to curb violence and disorder at the frontline. I hope that other government departments can … I will not say "extend a helping hand". They should work with each other to properly perform the task of stopping violence and curbing disorder and restore peace and order to society as soon as possible.


Chairman, some people have been arrested in the riots over the past four months. Can the Government refer to the practice adopted by the United Kingdom in dealing with its riots in 2011? They set up a special court operating on a 24-hour basis to expedite the judicial process. By so doing, their courts managed to efficiently and quickly mete out rulings and punishments to the offenders, and generated a deterrent effect. The Courts in Hong Kong have made prosecutions, but if I may be frank, the prosecution process is very slow. Besides, we are completely ignorant of how court cases are scheduled to be heard in court. If we refer to the experience of the United Kingdom, where common law is practised, they set up a 24-hour special court to expedite the processing of cases in connection with the riots. This helped them to truly restore peace to society. Chairman, as I said, the SAR Government cannot rely on the measure of increasing the tax reduction percentage from 75% to 100% alone to tackle the present problems in Hong Kong. More importantly, the SAR Government must be resolute and all departments must work concertedly to stop violence and curb disorder, so as to restore the basic order and peace to Hong Kong and return the freedom of movement to the people. And various sectors and industries should also be given back their freedom of operating business, and be saved from living in fear every day and worrying that their shops will be vandalized due to different political stands or their customers will be given "special treatments". I hope that the SAR Government can demonstrate its resolution in truly restoring the freedom for SMEs or various sectors to operate their business and the freedom for people to live their lives. Chairman, there are many similar problems in Hong Kong. The SAR Government must show its determination to stop violence and curb disorder. Only by so doing can it restore the basic economic stability to Hong Kong. Apart from this tax reduction measures, we have proposed others measures. I hope the SAR Government will also take them into consideration. I hope that Members here, and Secretaries, Under Secretary and their colleagues here will listen to the proposals we just mentioned. These include taking the lead to lower rents of government premises, launching tax reduction and funding schemes to support SMEs, reducing some of the administrative measures, etc. We hope that the Government can implement these proposals. Chairman, I so submit.


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MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): Chairman, the amendment proposed by the Government this time around is to raise the one-off reductions of salaries tax, tax under personal assessment and profits tax for the year of assessment 2018-2019 from the original 75% to 100%, while the ceiling of $20,000 per case is unchanged. This is also a measure proposed by the Financial Secretary in August to relieve the hardships of the people, which will benefit 1.43 million taxpayers or tax-paying corporations and help them save $1.84 billion of taxes. Of course I support the Government's proposal as Hong Kong is in the midst of chaos and many small and medium enterprises ("SMEs") are facing a difficult time. However, I wish to point out that the proposal is rather trivial as it will benefit a small group of people only. Besides, if the Government really wants to benefit the middle-class and grass-roots people, it should introduce tax reform in a bold and decisive manner. As a matter of fact, raising the tax reduction from 75% to 100% without increasing the $20,000 ceiling will bring a rather limited benefit to taxpayers who have to pay salaries tax. A number of Members have also pointed out that basically, for taxpayers who are earning $400,000 per annum, the 75% in tax reduction will enable them to save the maximum $20,000 in tax if they are not entitled to other tax allowance. That is to say, it is meaningless to them even if the rate of reduction is increased to 100%. If a taxpayer who is earning $500,000 per year and is entitled to child or dependant parent allowance, he or she can also enjoy the maximum $20,000 concession. Therefore, even if the rate of reduction is raised to 100%, it will not bring much benefit to the public. The middle-class people will not enjoy much help from the measure. On the other hand, the amounts of tax payable by many low-income people are below $20,000, therefore a 100% reduction will not do them any good at all. Regarding this amendment, many Members have pointed out that the concession is too little and inadequate to relieve the hardships of the people. As a matter of fact, some Members have also put forward other proposals, and I have seen that a lot of pro-establishment Members have actively taken part in today's debate, with a view to putting forward their suggestions to the Government and do something which can really help the people. For that reason, I consider that the Government should study these suggestions by the Members in a determined manner. I concur with some of the suggestions. First, the concession amount should be increased from $20,000 to $30,000 or higher, so as to benefit the middle-class as well as owners of SMEs. But of course the Government has to allocate more resources. In fact, last year the Government also proposed a


concession subject to a ceiling of $30,000 per case. For that reason, will the Government do the calculation again and see if the ceiling can be raised to that level? Secondly, as pointed out by some Members, should the amount of tax saved by a taxpayer be less than the maximum $20,000, can the difference be carried forward to the next fiscal year? They are of the opinion that since the Government has made provision for this amount of money, then it should be more generous and allow the taxpayers to make use of the difference concerned in the next fiscal year. Just like the health care vouchers, and elderly people are allowed to carry forward and accumulate unspent vouchers. This suggestion will benefit grass-roots people more. The Government should study if it is feasible. Chairman, as I have said during the Second Reading debate, the Government should reform Hong Kong's tax regime in a bolder and more decisive manner with a new way of thinking. I have once proposed that for a person earning less than $600,000 per annum―that is, a middle-class person with a monthly salary of $50,000 or below―should be exempted from salaries tax. Certainly, I do not have the resources to conduct a detailed study, but my proposal is just to "cast a brick to attract jade", in the hope that the Government will be encouraged to implement policies with a new way of thinking. We can see from Inland Revenue Department's figures that in the fiscal year 2016-2017, there were 1.35 million people earning less than $600,000 per annum, which accounted for 76% of the total number of salaries tax payers. Nevertheless, the amount of tax they paid only accounted for 8.6% of the total amount of salaries tax. That is to say, if people earning less than $600,000 per annum are exempted from salaries tax, the Government will only forego 8.6% of the salaries tax, but the effect is that 76% of the public can get out of the tax net. Just think about it, many people would be pleased by such a benevolent policy. In fact, each year the Government will introduce tax concession measures, even though people earning over $1 million per annum can also enjoy the $20,000 concession. For the more than 100 000 people whose annual income exceeds $1 million, will the Government consider―first, of course I consider that they should enjoy the $20,000 concession because they have paid the majority portion of tax, but should the Government also consider other measures? A fairer approach is for those whose annual income exceeds $1 million or $2 million to be subject to a higher tax rate? That is, instead of 15%, it should be 15.5% or 16%. In so doing, the foregone revenue could be recovered quickly. In my opinion, as far as this high-income group are concerned, they


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would not mind the increase. Nevertheless, I should not speak on their behalf; I can only express my own personal view. However, I believe that many people are of the opinion that if our society can adopt this revamped tax arrangement, more people will benefit and the number of poor people can be reduced. Actually it will improve the atmosphere in society, and it can also minimize the chance for some people to distort the argument or to incite confrontations among people. For that reason, just think about it, if we can achieve something good, then we should do it. Let me cite an example, if we do not allow people earning more than $1 million per annum to enjoy the $20,000 concession, the Government can save up to $3 billion. That is, if the Government exempts those earning less than $600,000 per annum from salaries tax, actually the Government's expenditure will increase by $1 billion at the most. Therefore, there are millions of solutions. The question is whether or not the Government has the determination and courage to make the decision, if they could get rid of the bad habits such as the culture of "doing less means erring less", or if they can avoid procrastination on everything and avoid doing things with their own hands. If so, the Government can achieve a lot of tasks. Alright, I have also heard some opposing arguments against such measures, citing such reasons as administrative difficulties, and even strong resistance. Some Secretaries tell me that when they propose some innovative measures, some bureaucrats will raise objection on grounds of administrative difficulties. As a result, the entire Government will continue to stick to the same old rut. I very much hope that these bureaucrats will seriously reflect on the culture of "doing less means erring less". In fact, one can see from the social unrest this time around that why the people are enraged as a result of the accumulation of grievances. In simple terms, if the chaos continues, some officials may have to step down sooner or later. I also think that some of these incapable officials or those who are widely known for their underperformance and reluctance to do things should be removed from office. I really think that these officials will no longer be accepted in today's Hong Kong. Nowadays, incapable officials should leave their seats. For that reason, I hope that the Chief Executive will take a good look at her team of officials and see if some underperforming officials should leave. If this culture is not changed, Hong Kong will only be "dried up" and Hong Kong will have no future; everyone will regret that. Moreover, some people say that the measures are infeasible as they will narrow the tax base. Nevertheless, according to the figures concerned, only 8.6% of the revenue will be foregone as I mentioned before, and the impact is quite minimal. Besides, I think that Hong Kong people have a sense of honour and justice, if the


Government is willing to introduce the measures, I think they will be willing to pay salaries tax again if so requested in case of a future economic downturn. As a matter of fact, the Government does not have the need to amend the relevant law, so it can request these people to pay salaries tax anytime it considers necessary. The current measures are only temporary ones to exempt them from salaries tax. I think that Hong Kong people are willing to share weal and woe and have a sense of responsibility. Therefore we should not worry about it. As a matter of fact, the Financial Secretary set up the Working Group on Long-Term Fiscal Planning in 2013 to study how the Government should plan for the ageing population and its long-term financial undertaking. Furthermore, the Financial Secretary decided that the Tax Policy Unit, which was set up in 2017, would be headed by himself. Everyone knows that the Financial Secretary is a tax expert, and I appreciate his farsightedness for taking charge of the tax reform task since he knows the root problems. I hope that he can come up with a solution to the impact of ageing population on Hong Kong's public finance, so that we can have a bright future. I believe that the Government should accord priority to economic development in its reform, for example, to promote economic and industry development through taxation policy. As I always say, we should make use of tax concessions to promote the development of headquarters economy and attract global enterprises to set up regional headquarters in Hong Kong, with a view to giving the impetus to the comprehensive economic development as well as creating quality job opportunities. I believe that if we are to restore Hong Kong's competitive edge, the real solution is to create wealth for our society. I believe that this will be more effective than increasing the reduction rate from 75% to 100% with a ceiling of $20,000. My office has received a lot of enquires from the public about the time for the introduction of Government's relief measures, and they indicate that they have been waiting anxiously. What we are debating today, the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Ordinance 2019, is one of these relief measures. More measures await the scrutiny of the Finance Committee, such as the measures to subsidize electricity tariff, rents of public rental housing, payments of the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance and so on. Each day I receive phone calls and letters from the public and they all wish that the measures can be approved by the Finance Committee as early as possible. I believe that the people's aspiration is very clear, and I very much hope that the Government can


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speed up the process in order to deliver the resources for relieving the hardships of the people to them as soon as practicable. I have always heard a remark by the opposition camp―today some Members have made the same remark―that we are duty-bound to monitor the Government. I agree with it. Therefore, I will cooperate with them by increasing the meeting time of the Finance Committee significantly, so as to complement their duties to monitor the Government. I will consult them about increasing meeting time and I hope they will translate their words into deeds and they will be willing to spend time monitoring the Government. Instead of sticking to their past practice by selecting the checkbox of "unable to present" in the reply slip, hence not many of them or only a few of them show up in the meeting. I really hope that they will all participate in the meeting so that we can convene the meeting as soon as possible. I really want to convene meetings of the Finance Committee. It is okay for me to convene meeting on a daily basis. But if no Members are going to attend, how can I convene meetings? For that reason, we should not indulge in empty talk; we should take action to show our support. Unfortunately, I cannot make public the statistics of Members' replies. Otherwise, I am more than happy to tell the truth to the public. I hereby urge the opposition camp―I do not know the reason, but they are not in the Chamber at this moment―to put their words into action; they should not think one way and act another. They should show people that they can put words into action. As far as monitoring the Government is concerned, we should spend more time holding meetings of the Finance Committee for detailed scrutiny of funding proposals. In so doing, we can speed up the scrutiny progress and hence it will meet what you have been advocating. It would be bad if your words and deeds do not tally. For that reason, I will try my best to cooperate with Members by increasing the meetings of the Finance Committee. It is quite unbelievable that many people have called and asked me when the civil servants will have their pay rise, when the funds will be allocated? I hope that we will expeditiously respond to the needs of the public. Lastly, I have to point out that in my opinion, apart from the need to stop violence and curb disorder as soon as possible, it is the time for reconciliation, for us to do something practical and realistic. Therefore, no empty talk, we should put words into action. I think that no matter how many relief measures are introduced, their effects are quite limited. It is because public resources will be used up very soon. The Government also indicates that Hong Kong will enter a


technical recession very soon. It is estimated that the wave of unemployment and closures will bring more trouble to Hong Kong's economy and make people's livelihood more difficult. Many people say that the market is worse than it was during the SARS outbreak, I agree with that. However, there was no black terror during the SARS outbreak. That is, even if you say something unpleasant to the ears of other people, they will not beat you up for what you have said; or you do not need to find out which district is safe if you want to go out. During the SARS outbreak, all people were working as one; people would try to find out the solution together. People would conduct territorial wide cleaning campaign in order to help put Hong Kong's economy back on the right track. I hope we can do the same this time around. Let us set aside our differences and mend the rift. For the well-being of Hong Kong, we should sit down and talk. It is because if the riots continue, they will not produce any good results. It will definitely be the low-income groups who will bear the brunt of the riots. More importantly, if someone seeks "mutual destruction", you should think about it as your family members will also be the victims of "mutual destruction", the jobs of your parents and relatives will also be at stake. For that reason, I hope that people will not selfishly insist on their ideas. After all, nobody has promised you anything. What will happen as a result of "mutual destruction", if you ask some Members, they will not tell you "Sorry, I should not have taught you to seek 'mutual destruction' tactics, because it would cause you problems". They will not tell you, as they might have already made an arrangement to settle down in some overseas countries. For that reason, I hope everyone should maintain a sober mind. To be jailed is very depressing. Some people have already said that they could not use their mobile phones to surf the web in detention centres. It is quite painful for those who are arrested. It is hard for them to stay there for several weeks, let alone the possible years of imprisonment. It is heartbreaking to us. We know all along that they should not break the law. They should understand that we want to help them. We urge everyone not to take a wrong turn. CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Kin-por, please come back to the question of this motion debate.


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MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): Okay, Chairman. All in all, if the current situation persists, it will take a heavy toll on Hong Kong. Therefore, I support the amendment, and I also hope that the Government will think more deeply and study how to completely revamp Hong Kong's economic environment. This will be a real help to Hong Kong people. Thank you, Chairman. CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I now suspend the meeting until 5:20 pm. 4:49 pm Meeting suspended. 5:20 pm Committee then resumed. MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): Chairman, I rise to speak in support of the amendment to the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 which seeks to increase the tax reduction of salaries tax, profits tax and tax under personal assessment for the year of assessment 2018-2019 from 75% to 100% while retaining the ceiling of $20,000. The tax concession aims at easing the burden on the middle class and small and medium enterprises ("SMEs") to enable them to save expenses for future uncertainties and to stimulate their spending. As we all know, the recent row has led to a significant downturn in the business of the tourism and retail sectors. While the retail sector has seen a drop in its total sales amount by some 20%, the catering sector has also been hard hit. If there is any tax reduction, the reduced tax bills will, to certain extent, induce some middle-class people to spend more. Having continued for four-odd months, the row arising from the legislative amendment exercise not only has caused a cliff-like drop of business in the


tourism sector, but has also left some profound repercussions which are gradually surfacing now. As pointed out by Financial Secretary Paul CHAN, the negative growth of Hong Kong's economy is markedly greater in the third quarter than in the second, implying that the economy has slipped into a technical recession. Apart from the tourism and retail sectors being in a slump, Hong Kong's exports have also been expected to fall by more than 7% in the third quarter, which is the largest quarterly drop in a decade. As Financial Secretary Paul CHAN described, the present blow to Hong Kong's economy is comprehensive, and with the situation showing no sign of abating as yet, the possibility of having negative growth for the whole year cannot be ruled out. The violent incidents triggered by the legislative amendment row have dragged Hong Kong into a political whirlpool, and the attempts to stop violence and curb disorder and to restore order have not yet been successful. During the legislative amendment row, the opposition camp has sought to expand its political spectrum by adding fuel to the fire through different channels. It has not scrupled to spread specious and negative messages about Hong Kong's current situation and demonize issues which are difficult to resolve at the moment, so as to direct all criticisms at the SAR Government and create a false impression that the administration of Hong Kong is in a mess. Meanwhile, in order to disrupt the smooth implementation of "one country, two systems", they have deliberately made sweeping assertions and used various ploys to vilify Mainlanders and Mainland affairs. Actually, as a developing country, the Mainland will naturally experience a situation where certain problems, such as law and order problems, wealth disparity and corruption, inevitably arise in the course of its development. The opposition camp only seeks to exaggerate the shortcomings of the Mainland system and says nothing about the progress in the Mainland, thus stirring up conflicts between the two places. By emphasizing "two systems" and evading "one country", they sow misunderstanding and mistrust towards the Mainland among the general public―the younger generation in particular―making them resist "one country, two systems". This has resulted in the rapid rise of the advocacy of self-determination for Hong Kong and "Hong Kong independence", and incessant violent conflicts. In fact, prior to this movement, the opposition has been impeding Hong Kong's development by way of internal political attrition and this has already become the order of the day. As one can see, frequent filibusters in the


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Legislative Council and the huge backlog of funding applications in the Finance Committee have affected many sectors. Also, a number of bills are still awaiting scrutiny by the Legislative Council. We can see that … CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr YIU Si-wing, please return to the subject of this debate. MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): Chairman, I am explaining why I support the Government's proposal to raise the tax reduction from 75% to 100% for salaries tax, profits tax and tax under personal assessment. Therefore, it is necessary for me to make mention of some background information. The abortion of District Council meetings due to some politically-related ad hoc agenda items shows that the Government encounters increasing difficulties in policy implementation. Despite so, the Government, as I just said, still tries to find ways to alleviate the hardship suffered by the business sector and the middle class. When the present situation arose, the opposition camp laid blame on the Government. Certainly, the Government should not shift all the blame onto the opposition camp. But if you think again, don't you think the opposition camp also has a share of the blame? The "anti-locust" campaign, protests against parallel traders, "Occupy Central" and Mong Kok riot in recent years, as well as the legislative amendment row this time round are all triggered by the opposition camp through its manipulation of the conflicts and grievances which have continuously accumulated. With ongoing political instability, Hong Kong's economy has been caught in a bottleneck, lagging remarkably behind the economies of the Mainland and Macao, and even that of our neighbouring Singapore. While other places are quietly striving for economic development, we are stuck in continuous internal attrition and remain stagnant. This tax reduction measure can only relieve the burden of some people, and actually, when compared to our competing … if the present row can be resolved, the situation will be completely different.


Chairman, after the reunification, Hong Kong could have further strengthened its status as an international financial centre and international maritime and aviation hub, given its institutional strengths, the sizeable market of the Motherland, the support of the Central Authorities through various policies beneficial to Hong Kong and the national strategic planning of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area which encompasses the successive commencement of various major cross-boundary infrastructure projects, and the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link ("XRL"), the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macao Bridge ("HZMB") and the boundary control point at Liantang/Heung Yuen Wai which enhance our geographic and network advantages in the area. However, the good days did not last long. These few months have been marked with continuous violent protests. Protesters have gone so far as to ruthlessly vandalize public facilities, desecrate the national flag, and deliberately trash some shops. Apparently, they are challenging the authority and credibility of the SAR Government's governance and the bottom line of "one country, two systems". This situation has made the Central Government concerned about whether Hong Kong has gone out of control, and we have begun to see some signs that the Central Government is wavering in its support for Hong Kong. Moreover, endless violent protests have increased the risks of investing in Hong Kong. As we observed, this has already affected the plans of some large corporations to make long-term investment in Hong Kong, and I have also noted that some firms have relocated their headquarters to Singapore. Among the people I know, many have transferred their assets to Singapore because they are worried about the repercussions of the political storm in Hong Kong. In order to fight for their purported democracy and freedom, protesters in this row have shown no hesitation in resorting to violence at the cost of Hong Kong's long-term prosperity. I beg them to have a think: Is it worthwhile to do so? Among the Four Little Dragons in Asia (Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore) in the old days, the economies of Hong Kong and Singapore were relatively small as compared to others in the world and needed to rely on the service sector for market development. In recent years, Singapore has been making rapid development and has gained international recognition in various aspects, such as government's probity, business freedom, infrastructure and social stability. In fact, Hong Kong once ranked top in these aspects, but being beset by political attrition, it is now faced with an uncertain prospect. Taiwan has


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been practising a democratic system for some time, but still, it experiences severe political attrition and a serious economic downturn which has lasted for years and shown no sign of improvement. This reflects that democracy and freedom are not panaceas for all problems. The primary aspiration of the public is to have a stable political situation and to live a peaceful and contented life. And this is also an important consideration for investors. Chairman, the risk of a global economic downturn is looming, and this has something to do with political disputes. There are two factors of uncertainty which have drawn global attention: first, Brexit, and second, the China-United States trade war. In 2016, Britain decided whether to withdraw from the European Union ("EU") by way of a referendum, thus marking the beginning of a series of political gambles taken by Britain. At that time, many of the voters did not really want Britain to leave EU but simply wished to use their votes to express their discontent about the status quo and the establishment, as well as their quest for a change. Subsequent to the Brexit referendum, a number of problems have actually arisen. For example, the issue of Brexit has become a tool in the struggle for power and interests, throwing the British ruling party, different political parties and groupings, the parliament, the press and media, and the general public into serious confrontation and rifts. Having been a member of EU for years, Britain has expanded its trade and investment with the support of the market access to the huge European market. Also, the access to the financial services market of the European Economic Area has been an important pillar supporting Britain's position as an international financial services centre. Both Britain and EU have a price to pay after Brexit. Currently, Britain has extended the Brexit deadline for the third time. In the face of the uncertainty which has already persisted for three-odd years, British and European enterprises, especially those doing import and export business across the English Channel, can do nothing but to wait and see what will happen. The British Prime Minister has just succeeded in his bid for an early general election in December …


CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr YIU Si-wing, please return to the subject of this debate. MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): I am about to make my point. The current state of affairs in Britain has a very direct impact on Hong Kong, because when the British enterprises―and Hong Kong enterprises also―find the current situation in Britain uncertain, they will worry whether the economic prospect of Britain becomes bleak. Given our close relationship with Britain, Hong Kong will inevitably be affected by that. I am just trying to point out this relationship. As regards the China-United States trade war, started by the American President Donald TRUMP, this trade war has been ever-escalating along the way. On the surface, President TRUMP's intention is to use the serious imbalance of trade between China and the United States as the justification for forcing China to further open up its market to reduce the trade deficit of the United States with China. But the truth is that he is making preparations for the next round of electioneering. He actively promotes the America First policies regardless of consequences. He has done barbaric acts in contrary to the spirit of free trade and the core values of capitalism. This trade war can be described as a repeat of the trade war between Japan and the United States in the 1980s, considering the close parallels between China today and Japan back then. With the lesson learnt from the preceding trade war between Japan and the United States, China has long since made preparations to prevent a repeat of the history. In the present China-United States trade war, both countries are losers while economies around the world (including that of Hong Kong) are also affected. The United States has always wanted to obtain more political chips, and this political row has degenerated Hong Kong into a pawn in the hands of the American government during the China-United States trade war. Chairman, the two aforementioned major factors of uncertainty are having an impact on Hong Kong's economy, and Hong Kong has even become a venue for political wrestling. Recently, Hong Kong has been used as a political chip in the president elections in the United States and Taiwan. Their criticism that there is no democracy and freedom in Hong Kong is utterly groundless. They merely used Hong Kong for their own good. Certainly, the opposition camp is willing to be used, but obviously, many Hong Kong people have been misled.


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As a matter of fact, economic development and social stability go hand in hand. Violent resistance will merely lead to economic recession and disturbance to people's lives. Failure to curb it will trap Hong Kong in an eternal vicious cycle. I hope the Government can stop violence and curb disorder expeditiously, so that Hong Kong can restore its vitality and rebuild its economy as soon as possible. Based on the above analysis, I consider it necessary to increase the reduction in salaries tax, profits tax and tax under personal assessment for the year of assessment 2018-2019 from 75% to 100%. That said, such measure is just like a drop in the ocean, and the key still lies in an expeditious restoration of calmness in Hong Kong. Chairman, I so submit. DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, regarding the Government's proposal this time around, namely an increase of the tax concession rate from 75% to 100% as mainly discussed by Members last time, I also wish to add a few points. Some people hope that I can relay two points. Many middle-class people and taxpayers with whom we have been in touch have invariably expressed one hope, the hope for suspending the payment of provisional tax (including provisional profits tax) or permitting them to pay the tax by instalments, so as to alleviate the operational difficulties faced by, for example, small and medium enterprises ("SMEs"). As I said last time, the recent measures introduced by the Government are piecemeal. Actually, "the elephant is still in the room", meaning to say that people may be concerned about a bigger problem. But speaking of livelihood problems, I also think that they need to be rectified, and we are likewise vested with this duty. People also hope that I can relay one point, the point that at this difficult time, the payment of provisional profits tax imposes a heavy burden on them, so does the payment of provisional personal income tax. I hope the Secretary can consider the idea of adopting flexibility in dealing with the taxation arrangements for corporations and individuals alike. This morning, I also drew the Secretary's attention to one point. Regarding the tax concession initiative proposed by the authorities, I must say that we have repeatedly raised a similar idea. In that case, why do I still want to


add a few points on the increase of the tax concession rate from 75% to 100%? The reason is that last time, Mr Alvin YEUNG gave a vehement speech, saying that this initiative was rolled out not so much because of the successful fight by any political parties in this Chamber, and credit should instead go to the masked protesters outside. I think I must make it a point to say that various political parties have recommended that the Government should roll out this tax concession initiative, along with a permission for paying provisional tax by instalments as I mentioned just now, and the introduction of a loan fund for occupation switching, a student allowance for school-related expenses, and also a rental allowance. We have never said that credit should be given to any individual political party or any political party in the pro-establishment camp. If he keeps saying that the Government rolls out this measure because of the violence or vandalism outside, I am afraid the Government will refrain from introducing any measures in the future. Whenever the Government takes measures to improve people's livelihood, he will invariably say that the launch of any such measures is a result of the successful fight outside―fight involving violence or acts which have come to undermine law and order as well as peace in Hong Kong, I must say. As an objective fact, we are actually well aware of their demand, and it is embodied in two phrases with eight Chinese characters. But we have seldom heard from them any specific proposals (such as increasing the tax concession rate from 75% to 100%) or any recommendations on the provisional tax. I honestly have not heard anything like this. Chairman, I have instead heard their open advocacy of the "mutual destruction" of Hong Kong and the destruction of Hong Kong's economy, so as to give a fresh start to everything. I do not know where they learn this theory, and still less do I know who have incited or misled them. Let me begin by making one thing clear. In my view, the bit-by-bit improvement to people's livelihood (including tax concession) has nothing to do with the demand outside. As everybody can see, Hong Kong is facing a very difficult situation. Even if the "mutual destruction" campaign over the past four months has not taken place … Now that the relevant bill has already been withdrawn, other actions that are now underway are all aimed at "mutual destruction". Hong Kong people must beware of such a risk, and the Government must continue to roll out similar measures―even though I do not think that so doing will suffice. In the face of the imminent "storm", people must close the window securely and take precautionary measures. They must


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also look ahead. In my view, those acts are definitely inappropriate, and I do not want any young people to be misled. They may think that as long as they persist, the Government will take a step forward and introduce positive measures. They are utterly wrong, and they will only plunge into this abyss more deeply. Members will please show mercy for the parents of those young people. The political views held by many of them actually dissent from those held by the young protesters outside. They are honestly very worried, but some people still try to incite them. We in the Legislative Council should stop any further attempts to incite young people to persist in their wrongdoings. Instead, we should persuade them to return to rationality. Let us show the other side of the coin and demonstrate what rationality is all about. In my view, various political parties should be given credit for the successful implementation of various measures. But Members should not ascribe all this to violence or acts that aim at the "mutual destruction" or devastation of Hong Kong. Chairman, I wish to say that the measures launched by the Government for resolving the plight of SMEs, taxpayers or non-taxpayers are not thoughtful enough. The Government fails to understand what is on people's mind. While the Policy Address states that a review will be conducted by academics and experts and a report will be released in the future, the Government's assertion is still not specific enough. Why should the Government refuse to tell us the broad direction frankly and directly? This is rather what people have expected to hear. The Government really needs to do some deep reflection, conduct a review of the social disturbance this time around, and offer compensation to the victims where appropriate. Why should the Government refuse to tell us any of this? In my view, it is obvious that the Government is considering this direction. But never making any clear "callouts", it will only say something ambiguous, and the timing is also forever inappropriate. Actually, the Government should have made things clear on 16 October, the very day of announcing the Policy Address. But the Government refused to do so. Not only so, it even wants to delay the matter until the Independent Police Complaints Council releases its report (probably in January) before giving a clear account. Why? Can the community stand a further delay of a couple of months on this matter? Chairman, why do I have to bring up this point? Members may know that the British Government set up the Riots Communities and Victims Panel ("the Panel"), and in the end … I believe they also faced the same difficulties. I say so because their police force must enforce the law, and they were trying very hard to cope with all their might. Eventually, the ruling party and opposition party in


Britain compromised, and this enabled the British Government and its parliament to join hands in bringing forth the establishment of the Panel, a non-statutory body. How did the Panel target specifically at livelihood and economic problems? The Government can actually draw reference from the Panel. The Panel was vested with three major duties. Conducting an inquiry into the riots was one of them, and we need to discuss it. It was also tasked to examine certain deep-seated problems with their education, economic and political systems, and so on. I also think a discussion is needed. Speaking of deep-seated problems, why are young people in Hong Kong so pessimistic? Young people in Britain were likewise pessimistic at the time. They had zero trust in their police force, and their trust in their Inspectorate of Constabulary was likewise zero or even below zero. The present situation of Hong Kong is the same as that of Britain back in 2011. At the time, their police force arrested many people, nearly 1 000 people―I am talking about the early days of the riots―most of whom were minors. This had something to do with their family background. Only a trivial matter already sufficed to spur a massive riot. But at the time, the British Government was very decisive in its handling. How decisive was it? First, CAMERON immediately announced, "Courts … have been sitting through the night―and will do so for as long as necessary." The reason he gave was that the manifestation of justice could brook no delay. He requested the Court to sit through the night on a rotational basis of 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Some Members may miss the point upon hearing this arrangement, thinking that it will violate the rule of law and also the Basic Law. But the fact is not like this because this arrangement was aimed at the expeditious manifestation of justice. Besides, no special court was set up. Well, Members may say that a special branch was set up. But mind you, no special court was set up. What they did is like increasing judicial resources as we have requested for the purpose of speeding up the scrutiny of cases involving "bogus refugees" (or fake torture claimants). The ground put forth by Britain was that an overwhelming majority of the defendants were minors, and if their respective lawsuits lasted for as long as 5 years or even 10 years―they are not like an initiator of "Occupy Central" from the University of Hong Kong ("HKU")


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because he may still continue his teaching job in HKU even if his lawsuit spans five years―they would be in agony … CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Dr Priscilla LEUNG, please return to the subject of this debate. DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): Yes, I will. I talk about all this because it is related to another important issue. Besides, he also announced that the Panel would be set up, and compensation would be offered in accordance with the Riot (Damages) Act. This is related to the Government because the Government needs to materialize all this. What I mean is how compensation should be offered after social disturbance. In the case of Britain, how did they offer compensation? With the assistance of the British Government, an overwhelming majority (around 92%) of shop owners received compensation from insurance companies. As social disturbance was involved, especially when such words as "terrorism" were used, insurance companies might refuse to offer any compensation. We have received many requests for assistance from various tearful jewellers, and they have told us their worries that if their security guards fail to ensure the safety of large-scale exhibitions, insurance companies may refuse to offer any compensation. The Government needs to study the handling of the exemption concerning terrorist attacks under reasonable circumstances, so that they can receive insurance compensation as they can in normal circumstances. Second, 93% of all claims were uninsured claims. That means such claims were outside insurance coverage. In the end, such claims were also successfully handled with government assistance, and they involved those shops that had been affected somewhat unfortunately. In the case of Hong Kong, there are also many such shops. I also know that certain individuals or shops have likewise come under the impact of tear gas somewhat unfortunately, so it is possible that they can be included in this category. Furthermore, a programme called the Recovery Scheme was launched, under which the British department of commerce offered assistance …


CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Dr Priscilla LEUNG, please return to the subject of this debate. DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): I am returning to the subject of this debate. Please listen to me first as Britain's experience is honestly very useful. Many shop owners say that the mere introduction of tax concession by the Government is not enough. My office sustains criminal damage, and the renovation―in the literal sense of the word―and repair fee amounts to no less than some $100,000. The District Council member, whose office is adjacent to mine, is even more pathetic. With a monthly salary of only $30,000, he must have his office repaired before he can continue to serve people, and his repair fee is likewise as much as $100,000. The Government must help such people. There will also be domestic claims and settlement interim claims involving SMEs. Many shop owners may file civil claims in the future. Protest is not above everything. When shop owners find out who damaged their properties, they have the right to file claims against the perpetrators. How can settlement be reached then? In my view, it is best not to bring the matter to court. In the case of Britain, in order to assist in bringing forth a settlement―very often, the relevant parties are willing to reach a settlement when there is a lawsuit―the relevant authorities already heard 1 000 cases in the first week. Can we do it? The Government will only say this will not work, adding that judges will not give their consent. Has the Government discussed with them? Have Members held any discussion in the Legislative Council on increasing resources for the Court? We only want to help those innocent people. Many shop owners have also talked about the inadequacies of the tax concession introduced by the Government. They need to recruit security guards, and I also encourage them to do so. Apart from recruiting security guards―in particular, the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department should recruit security guards to assist in cleaning up Lennon Walls, rather than having people do the job on their own initiative―the Government should also try to find out whether various organizations are able to recruit security guards. In the case of the Airport Authority Hong Kong, the Hong Kong MTR Corporation Limited and the Hospital Authority, for example, they are certainly able to do so. But can they recruit a sufficient number of security guards who are Hong Kong permanent residents? If the number is not enough, has the Government drawn up any


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specific measures for assisting them in recruiting well-trained security guards? As some shopping arcades and universities have indicated that they do not need any assistance from the Police, they should not seek any police assistance if they can recruit a sufficient number of well-trained security guards. I say so because they can take up the responsibility for security matters themselves. In the past, banks were allowed to recruit their own armed security guards to protect themselves. This can prevent any damage to the automatic teller machines of banks. The Government should help them. Can the Government import the required manpower in the short run? As it is not possible to increase the Police's manpower, and they have to deal with trivial matters, they have become overloaded. Some people summons the Police to the scene with the ulterior motive of escalating the situation. As some shopping arcades do not want the Police to go inside, they may recruit their own security guards to handle any scenarios by themselves … CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Dr Priscilla LEUNG, please return to the subject of this debate. DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): What I mean is that the Government should provide subsidies and support for small shop owners rather than sizable shopping arcades and corporations. I even doubt the ability of the Hong Kong Design Institute to recruit more security guards as it is not a large institution. Do they have the ability and means to recruit security guards? The Government should assist them and try to find out their situation. Chairman, I think "mutual destruction" has already emerged in Hong Kong now. I urge them (especially certain Legislative Council Members) to stop what they are doing. Even now, they still remain very enthusiastic about getting help from the United States, hoping to achieve the "mutual destruction" of Hong Kong. While they have succeeded in striving for the passage of the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, I must say that the "mutual destruction" of Hong Kong will only do harm to those innocent Hong Kong people, bring hardship to their living and plunge them into a dire situation. I hope they can put an end to their stupid acts, stop bad-mouthing Hong Kong and return to the side of Hong Kong people because Hong Kong is already miserable enough.


I do not believe many young people can understand what is meant by "mutual destruction". They have never experienced the times of war turbulence, the times of foreign invasion and also the times of water supply at a four-hour interval. This explains why they want to bring forth the "mutual destruction" of Hong Kong under the inducement of those with ulterior motives. The reason for Hong Kong's degradation is that we have failed to make good use of our speech freedom. It is a pity that we have speech freedom. Instead of doing something constructive, they have now created a "mutual destruction camp". I hope they can do some self-reflection and turn themselves back to a normal, rational opposition camp. What society needs is an opposition camp rather than a "mutual destruction camp". I hope to see the expeditious restoration of Hong Kong to a place with the rule of law, peace, civilized conduct and freedom of speech. MR VINCENT CHENG (in Cantonese): Chairman, subsequent to last Tuesday's Second Reading debate, I consider it necessary for me to speak again in today's Committee stage of the whole Council. Violent clashes have been going on for more than four months, and the impact on all sectors has emerged gradually. Nevertheless, I note that when we were holding the Second Reading debate on the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 ("the Bill") in last week, some Members from the non pro-establishment camp said that businesses had not been badly affected. They claimed that if we had a look at the wet markets and asked the Link Real Estate Investment Trust ("Link REIT"), the businesses there were actually better than before. Due to a wax and wane effect, some businesses are better than others. It would not be the proper message to spread around town. It is because everyone can see that the impact on shops or employees is really huge. For that reason, I must rise and speak again. Chairman, violent clashes have been going on for a long time, but so far the Government has been unable to stop violence and curb disorder. The impact on society as a result of unemployment and the closures of shops will become more substantial. I am concerned that the enhanced salaries and profits taxes concessions this time around are not adequate, because various trades and families are hit the hardest, with closures of businesses and losses of jobs among wage earners. The Administration should consider and study whether it should follow the example after the 2003 SARS outbreak by introducing more measures to revitalize the economy, stimulate consumption and safeguard jobs.


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Chairman, speaking of the enhanced tax reduction measures this time around, the original proposal sought to implement the measure proposed in the Budget by introducing one-off reductions of salaries tax, tax under personal assessment and profits tax for the year of assessment 2018-2019 by 75%, subject to a ceiling of $20,000 per case. Since the subsequent worsening economic situation and the ongoing social unrest caused by anti-extradition law movement, the impacts on the livelihood of the people have gradually emerged. For that reason, the Government introduced relief measures again in mid-August by introducing the enhanced tax reduction measures, that is, the amendment moved by the Government today, which seeks to increase the reductions of salaries tax and profits tax to 100%. The Government will publish the latest economic figures this week, and the Financial Secretary has already forecast that Hong Kong's economy will enter a technical recession for this year. Even though the unemployment rate has not risen much, it has been adjusted to 2.9%. Many people in Hong Kong are working hard, and there are many dual working families, that is, both the husband and wife have to work. Some people have to work 45 hours per week, and more people working in the consumer-based industries have to work 51 hours per week. They really do not want to rely on the Government or become Comprehensive Social Security Assistance recipients. No matter whether they are grassroots or middle-class people, or even relatively well-off people whose income exceeds the level for tax allowances, would rather pay tax. However, after rounds of clashes, everyone knows that the catering, the retail industry and tourism industries are hit the hardest and many people are in dire straits. For that reason, I support the amendment proposed in the Bill. Upon the passage of the Bill, they may get some help. However, many people have lost their jobs; can the Bill help them tide over the present dire situation? Chairman, this morning I was at a street booth, suddenly a black-clad woman approached me. I thought she was trying to argue with me. But it turned out that she said she supported me. She asked me to speak on her behalf more frequently. She told me that she did not wear black clothing in the past. She usually wore red or yellow clothes. But she deliberately wore black clothes "for countering purposes"―I was at a loss as to what "countering purposes" meant, and I could not figure out the connection between that and the black clothes. She told me her story. She said that she used to have a part-time job in a restaurant, and only worked for four to five hours a day. But a month ago,


her working time was cut short to four to five hours a week. And she was sacked this month. She was going to attend security guard courses this morning and hopefully she could find a security guard job. Originally, she was the bread winner of the family, and she said that she was sad because she was forced to change to another type of job in her old age. She also expressed her concerns that she might reach her retirement age in a few years, but she was more worried about the future of young people. I think that this is a typical example. Many people are losing their jobs and income. Even though they may receive some allowances after attending the employees retraining programmes, but how many people are willing to lose their jobs in exchange for these allowances? Therefore, reducing their salaries tax will not help them much. Let us imagine that due to the ongoing violent clashes, shops in affected areas have to close early and the number of tourists has drastically dropped. People dare not go out at all. Perhaps some people may think that violent clashes will die down sooner or later, but has it happened? Before last Saturday and Sunday, many people were praying as if they were praying for no rain at weekend. But it turned out that clashes took place on Saturday and Sunday. Yesterday clashes took place in Tuen Mun. Today, some students have vandalized school facilities. When will the whole thing die down? Last week I walked past Mong Kok and Causeway Bay and saw the disappearance of a large number of visitors. In some shops, there was not even a single customer. Only shop assistants were inside the shops and restaurants did not have many customers either. Some people may argue that take-away orders have increased. As some colleagues have said earlier, most members of the public have turned to wet markets to buy their groceries, therefore the businesses of wet markets are getting better. Nevertheless, we know very well that the worsening social atmosphere has discouraged members of the public from spending. A local resident told me that when he was shopping at a snack shop across the street of Mong Kok Police Station near Prince Edward, the shop assistants told him that they were glad to see a customer because no customers had visited the shop for a long time. He was told that the shop had a few customers only in one day, and the shop assistants were concerned that they might eventually lose their jobs.


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I mentioned in the Second Reading debate that the current unemployment rate was 2.9%. The latest employment figures of the period between July and September show that total employment has decreased by 8 700 when compared with the figures between June and August. Chairman, more than 8 000 people have lost their jobs. In the meantime, the unemployment rate in the retail, catering and hotel industries have surged to 4.9%, with that of the catering industry alone reaching 6%. However, are these real-time figures? I believe that the actual situation is worse. We can see the business situation when we walk past restaurants in town. Last night when I was driving past a restaurant which was usually brightly lit, I saw that all the lights had gone out. I reckoned that another restaurant might have closed down. Can the Government provide more data other than the unemployment rate? Does it have the figures of the number of people being laid off, people forced to take no-pay leaves or to cut down working hours, the rate of under-employment or employees whose wages have not been paid? Chairman, if we look back at the SARS outbreak in 2003, the quarterly unemployment rate increased to 8.3% then. This time around, the hardest-hit trades such as retail trades have employed a total of 320 000 workers, while accommodation and food services have employed a total of 300 000 workers. If we only talk about tax concession without considering how to prevent further deterioration for them, and wait until peace returns to our society fully before these measures can be introduced, then I think many of them have already lost their jobs and the unemployment rate will be pushed to higher level. Therefore, Chairman, preventing the situation from further deterioration must be done in a timely fashion. The Government may introduce more concessions relating to the salaries tax and profits tax. Under the present two-tiered profits tax rates regime, the profits tax rate for the first $2 million of assessable profits is 8.25% for corporations and 7.5% for unincorporated businesses, while the assessable profits above $2 million will continue to be subject to the rate of 16.5% for corporations and the standard rate of 15% for unincorporated businesses. If we take a look at the fiscal year 2017-2018, the Government's revenue from salaries tax was as much as $62 billion, while that from profits tax for corporations was $135 billion. Frankly speaking, the Government's financial strength is very strong and robust. Its fiscal reserves are as high as $1.1 trillion. Nevertheless, under the current financial condition, is the Government more capable of returning wealth to the people, to help and to save the people and to prevent the situation from further deterioration for them?


Chairman, I note that earlier a businessman announced that he would donate $1 billion as the Crunch Time Instant Relief Fund to support small and medium enterprises ("SMEs"), and the first allocation of $200 million would be used to support the catering industry. A business with a staff size less than 50 may apply for the subsidy in next month, as long as they have a business registration and a restaurant license. It was also emphasized that the relevant scheme's application procedure was very simple. Applications can be completed online and each applicant may get the $60,000 Crunch Time Instant Relief Fund by the end of next month. I am not a businessman, but some friends who are doing small businesses tell me that the scheme can give instant help. It can help many SMEs. If a businessman can devise this scheme, then can our Government devise some other schemes, so as to win applause, and to let the public see that it can introduce some timely assistance and measures to help the people? Are these measures practical and timely enough? Many people tell me that when compared with the Government's handing out of $4,000, some people have not received the money after 1 year. However, now the businessman's scheme was launched this month and SMEs can get the subsidy by next month. For that reason, with such comparison, I believe that the Government's slow response will be unacceptable to many small businesses. I understand that as the Government's relief measures are financed by public monies, therefore it may adopt a more conservative stance. But I really hope that in future, the Policy Bureau in charge should communicate with the industry concerned and consult the industry's views. Just now Mr YIU Si-wing said, the tourism industry is the hardest hit, the situation is very grim. Although the Government has pledged to allocate a $100 to $120 cash subsidy, I am still concerned that neither the 6 000 tourist guides nor 17 000 tour escorts would benefit directly. At present, the volume of visitors has dropped significantly by 40% to 50%. The hotel and aviation industries are badly affected. Will the Administration listen to the views of the people by introducing airport tax concession, suspending the airport construction fee for the third runway, or providing visitors with certain shopping benefits or even shopping vouchers? It should consider a basket of options. It should not just try to solve the problem with money. I think that working as one is very important. I remember that Ms Starry LEE asked the Secretary for Labour and Welfare in this morning's question session that if the Secretary understood the problems Hong Kong families were


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facing. Last week Ms LEE also asked the Secretary if he had tried to understand the helplessness of the shops being vandalized. However, the Secretary's reply was disappointing. It seems to me that the Secretary is trying to defend himself by saying that he is doing a lot of different tasks and observing many different problems. Nevertheless, is the Government determined to let the business sector feel that we are working as one to fight this battle, and does the Government care the people and will it help them to resolve the problems? Or despite the closures of many shops, it still insists that it is just economic adjustment and it can do nothing in respect of the closures of many shops and joblessness of many people? Chairman, corporations are subject to tax rates of 8.25% and 16.5% for their assessable profits only if they are making profits. In the meantime, over 80% of Hong Kong companies are SMEs and they together have employed a large number of workers. In view of the current difficult time, the Government should introduce more "think-outside-of-the-box" measures. By the end of the year people will receive their tax returns, and they need to pay their taxes by January next year. Will the Government introduce more measures to help to alleviate the pressure on shop owners? On the other hand, Chairman, in order to pay their salaries tax, members of the public need to have income. For that reason, no matter what further salaries tax concession measures the Government will introduce by the end of February next year, it is important for the Government to plan and introduce some timely measures to safeguard jobs. If we look back at the SARS outbreak in 2003, the Government launched a $700 million employment and training package, under which more than 30 000 short-term jobs and training opportunities were created. It is widely expected that the latest storm is worse than that during the SARS outbreak. When will the Government devise some measures to help the public to weather the storm? I understand that the Government has introduced a Love Upgrading Special Scheme in tandem with the Employees Retraining Board, and applications have been accepted from October until March next year, which is a scheme for jobless or underemployed workers to attend two to three months training courses. But there are many conditions which the participants must meet before receiving the $4,000 subsidy, including an attendance rate over 80%. The necessary condition is that the participants have to attend the entire whole day course before they can get the $4,000 subsidy. Nevertheless, one should imagine that for members of the public, they have to be jobless and complete the whole course before they can


receive the $4,000 subsidy. At any moment, they may suffer losses as the subsidy cannot even cover the travelling expenses. Just as the black-clad lady whom I met this morning, they all have to endure the pain and hang on for a while. Will the Government consider increasing some subsidies for the grass-roots people so as to help them to tide over the difficult time? Chairman, finally I want to talk about the employment scheme during the SARS outbreak. During that time, the scheme covered artistic, cultural, tourism and various leisure facilities and a number of job opportunities were provided, including 3 000 Tourism Development Assistants and 1 000 Community Building Assistants. 6 700 job opportunities were offered and such a measure could help the public to find temporary employment. Chairman, in the face of the current adversity, I really hope that the Government can introduce more schemes to revitalize the economy, to stimulate consumption, create job opportunities. Generally speaking, I believe that many members of the public share the same view with us, that is, we can feel in recent months that only the disciplined forces and the Police have been working at the front line. Many people ask us, what are other Policy Bureaux doing? Actually, each Policy Bureau should have their work to do. It is unreasonable that only the disciplined forces are working. The Food and Environmental Hygiene Department, the Labour and Welfare Bureau should do their jobs. Each Policy Bureau should move a step forward to face the current adversity. Apart from stopping violence and curbing disorder, they should have a lot of other things to do. For that reason, regarding the tax measures under discussion today, and we of course agree with the Government and support the introduction of tax concession measures to help the public. But other than tax concession measures, will the Government come up with other methods to help SMEs and wage earners? They may have lost their jobs. If the Government does not take action, I believe the problem will get worse. Chairman, I support the amendments and enhanced measures concerning salaries tax and profits tax concessions. I also hope that the Administration will seriously consider the introduction of more relief measures. Thank you, Chairman.


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CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I would like to remind members once again that during consideration of the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 ("the Bill") by committee of the whole Council, members should focus their speeches on the contents of the provisions and the amendments in question and indicate whether they support them rather than discuss in detail the merits/demerits of the Bill or other matters. MR CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, as I have no idea whether the public is well aware of the purpose of the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 ("the Bill") under consideration today, I will first give a brief overview before proceeding to state my opinions on the amendments. The Bill aims to relieve the financial burden of taxpayers, which originally proposed reductions of salaries tax, tax under personal assessment ("PA") and profits tax for year of assessment ("YA") 2018-2019 by 75%, subject to a ceiling of $20,000 per case. This is the main purpose of the Bill. The Government has said that the proposed reductions would benefit 1.91 million taxpayers of salaries tax and tax under PA as well as 145 000 tax-paying corporations and unincorporated businesses. And so the tax revenue forgone amounts to $18.9 billion in total. As the Government has proposed amendments to the Bill, this Council has to become the committee of the whole Council for considering the amendments today. To tackle the present economic dilemma in which Hong Kong is facing both internal and external difficulties, the Financial Secretary announced a package of measures on 15 August this year, including a new measure of increasing the tax reduction for YA 2018-2019 from 75% to 100%, while retaining the ceiling of $20,000 for each case. The Government pointed out that 1.43 million taxpayers or enterprises would benefit from this measure, who would benefit from a further saving of $1.84 billion in taxes. To further implement the relief measure mentioned just now, the Government proposed corresponding amendments to the long title and clause 5 of the Bill to reflect in the Bill the implementation of this further tax relief proposal. Chairman, I have mentioned just now that the Government has stressed time and again that this additional relief measure can further benefit 1.43 million taxpayers or enterprises, but there is still some information which I have not been able to find, so I hope the Government will inform this Council later in its reply


that when the percentage of tax reduction is increased from 75% to 100% while retaining the ceiling of $20,000, what are the additional amounts of taxes to be saved for each person or enterprise benefiting from the relief measure (e.g. somewhere between a few hundred to a few thousand dollars)? I hope the Government can provide such figures and not just the number of people/enterprises benefiting therefrom. Hence, I ask the Administration to provide the information about the additional amounts of taxes to be saved in respect of every taxpayer or enterprise because I believe people in society want to know the answer. Having made a brief reference to the aim of the Bill and the contents of the Committee stage amendments ("CSAs"), Chairman, I will next discuss the amendments, but before proceeding to discuss them, it is necessary for everyone to understand the actual situation of salaries tax and profits tax at present and how the amendments will affect us and how they will help the public. How is the current salaries tax calculated in fact? Well, I believe that we all know that salaries tax in Hong Kong is calculated on the basis of income from employment arising in or derived from Hong Kong. There are currently five tax bands, each $50,000 apart. Calculation of the tax payable of each taxpayer is based on marginal tax rates (i.e. 2%, 6%, 10%, 14% and 17%) of the chargeable income, and the tax payable is subject to a ceiling capped at 15% of the assessable income after deductions. In YA 2017-2018, the Government's revenue from salaries tax was about $62 billion. Apart from salaries tax, some people were also subject to tax under PA, such as income chargeable to profits tax or property tax. In YA 2017-2018, the revenue from PA was $5.3 billion. That is to say, about 1.88 million taxpayers were subject to salaries tax and tax under PA in YA 2017-2018. As at 31 December 2018, the working population was about 3.98 million, among which about 1.88 million were subject to salaries tax or tax under PA. The above is an analysis of the implications of the amendment from an individual perspective. As for enterprises, profits tax is the subject in question. The two-tiered profits tax rates regime has been implemented in Hong Kong since YA 2018-2019. Under the two-tiered profits tax rates regime, the profits tax rates for the first $2 million assessable profits is 8.25% and 7.5% for corporations and unincorporated businesses respectively. The rate for assessable profits exceeding $2 million is 16.5% for corporations and 15% for unincorporated businesses. In YA 2017-2018, the revenue from profits tax was $139 billion.


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There were about 142 000 corporations and unincorporated businesses that had assessable profits in YA 2017-2018. As at 31 December 2018, there were altogether 1.27 million corporations and 258 000 unincorporated businesses in Hong Kong. Chairman, the information that I have presented just now provides a framework to show a general picture of the tax situation at both personal and corporate levels. Next, I would like to talk about whether it is reasonable for the Government to propose an amendment to provide one-off tax reductions in the context of the two-tiered profits tax rate regime mentioned just now. As a matter of fact, there has been a very heated discussion by all quarters of society on the current amendments. Now let's talk about the two-tiered profits tax rate regime. Why would the Government have introduced such a tax rate regime in YA 2018-2019? If we are to discuss whether it is reasonable to help enterprises through proposing the amendment, we must first understand the origin of this regime, that is, why it was implemented since YA 2018-2019. This is very important. Otherwise, we do not have a basis for discussing whether it is reasonable to provide one-off tax reductions at this timing. Chief Executive Carrie LAM proposed in her Election Manifesto back then the two-tiered profits tax rate regime to relieve tax burden for enterprises, particularly for small and medium-sized enterprises and start-ups. At that time, she proposed to lower the profits tax rate, for the first $2 million reported profits from the existing 16.5% to 10%. Tens of thousands of enterprises were expected to benefit by a reduction of 40% in tax payments. Then, in her 2017 Policy Address, the Chief Executive decided the profits tax rate for the first $2 million of profits for enterprises, namely the 10% previously mentioned as proposed in her Manifesto would be further reduced to 8.25 % (i.e., half of the profits tax rate), while profits exceeding $2 million would continue to be assessed at the standard rate of 16.5%. The lower tax rate applicable to unincorporated businesses would be 7.5% (i.e. half of the original uniform rate of 15%). From an objective point of view, enterprises benefiting from the lower tax rates of the two-tier system have indeed enjoyed concessionary tax treatment since the introduction of the two-tiered profits tax rates regime in YA 2018-2019. Yet, this should not be the grounds for questioning the need to proceed with the


offer of one-off tax reductions for corporations and unincorporated businesses. Why did I say so? It is because the two-tiered profits tax rates regime has become a permanent arrangement, similar to the case in which five tax bands were put in place to facilitate the implementation of the progressive tax regime. Both are actually based on the same theory. We will not consider that people paying salaries tax who are already enjoying the concessionary tax treatment under the progressive tax regime should not benefit from such one-off tax reductions. In short, it is no different from the case of paying salaries tax (personal assessment), but of course, we can go on to study in a serious manner whether salaries tax and profits tax are equally fair, including whether we can further expand the tax bands under salaries tax, or whether the standard tax rate of 15% can be further classified. I understand, however, that the discussion on the amendments today should not involve other areas, and so we will leave it for further debate in due course. As regards the issue which I have raised just now, that is, the question about whether it is reasonable to offer one-off tax reductions under the two-tiered tax rates regime which is now being discussed by society. I have mentioned to the Chairman just now that the same actually applies both in this situation and the case of paying salaries tax (personal assessment). Hence, we should not question whether the tax reductions proposed in the amendments should benefit also the enterprises purely because of the introduction of the two-tiered profits tax rates regime in YA 2018-2019. In view of this, I am agreeable to the proposal made in the amendments to benefit also those enterprises already enjoying concessionary tax treatment under the two-tiered profits tax rates regime for I consider this initiative reasonable. Chairman, apart from society's heated discussion on the two-tiered profits tax rates regime mentioned in this amendment, people are also concerned about whether the tax reduction measure can help taxpayers who had paid taxes in the previous financial years but cannot benefit from the current one-off tax reductions this time around. This question might have been omitted when the tax reduction measure was being formulated, but of course, whenever the Government introduces any one-off relief measures, there will always be people who voice other opinions and query if the measures concerned are fair. Perhaps people will raise this query: They did have paid taxes in the past but not in the current year for some reasons, yet, they will not benefit from the one-off tax reductions as they are granted for this year only. It is not fair to them. Thus, should the


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Government take into account the tax they had paid in the past few years or the operating losses their businesses had suffered and think about ways to enable them to benefit from the one-off tax relief measure? Regarding this issue, I think it is incumbent upon the authorities to provide a clear explanation to the public. However, due to time constraints, I will discuss this in my next speech. My speech on the arrangements under the two-tiered profits tax rates regime ends here. I so submit. MS ALICE MAK (in Cantonese): Chairman, I speak in support of the amendments proposed by the Government to the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 ("the Bill"). I would like to specifically point out that I believe no one would object to the proposed amendments, but why is there a need to make such amendments? The Government has originally proposed a tax reduction arrangement for the year of assessment 2018-2019 to reduce salaries tax, profits tax and tax under personal assessment by 75% subject to a ceiling of $20,000, and this was a tax concession measure rolled out to assist the people when the Budget was delivered at the beginning of this year. However, as we all know, in response to the economic downturn in Hong Kong in recent months, the Financial Secretary announced in August the second round of relief measures and proposed to increase the percentage for tax reduction from the original 75% to 100%. We therefore have to vote on the amendments proposed by the Secretary today to implement the revised proposal. However, the question is how much this proposed measure can assist taxpayers and members of the public? I would like to ask the Secretary: When computing and deciding the proposed tax reduction rate, what was the thinking behind and how was the estimation made? Have you first worked out an option A by computing the costs involved when the percentage for tax reduction is increased from 75% to 100% with a ceiling of $20,000, then assessed the viability of including an option B under which the relevant percentage is increased to 80% subject to a ceiling of $30,000, and finally chosen to adopt one of the options derived and based the tax concession proposal completely on the computation you made on your own? Has it ever occurred to you that in order to genuinely


assist the people, you should consider the whole situation from the perspective of the people, and examine what you should do to genuinely help them? As I said at the Legislative Council meeting held last week, when the "God of Wealth" announced further tax concession in the form of increasing the reduction rate from 75% to 100%, members of the public only considered the proposal as tasteless as chicken ribs. Is such an increase really so significant, and how many people can it benefit? How come consideration has not been given by the Government to accepting the proposal put forward by the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions to allow taxpayers to hold over the payment of provisional tax for one year? This may be a more straightforward approach because as I told my colleagues just now, when paying tax these days, people seldom pay out of their own pocket but will take out a tax loan to meet the expenses. If taxpayers are allowed to hold over the payment of provisional tax for one year, they can at least borrow less even though they have to take out a loan. I reckon that given the current situation, more people will have to take out a loan to meet tax expenses, so why not simply consider allowing taxpayers to hold over the payment of provisional tax for one year? When it comes to the provisional tax system, the Government has of course explained that tax paid under the system is not really provisional in nature, because salaries tax is collected towards the end of a financial year, meaning that the levy of tax has been deferred for one year and the tax paid can therefore by no means be regarded as provisional tax. Under the Pay As You Earn system adopted in some countries, people are required to pay tax once they get paid for their work, but this is not the case under the taxation system of Hong Kong. Hence, the Government has to include an amount of provisional tax when undertaking tax assessment. However, it should be noted that when the provisional tax system was first adopted, the idea behind was to ensure that a steady income would be secured for the Government to cope with its operating expenses, but when announcing a new round of relief measures a few days ago, the "God of Wealth" indicated that there was still surplus left in the public coffers. Such being the case, there is no need to worry about not having enough money to meet the operating expenses of the Government, so why is it not possible to collect tax for the current year only? Why is it necessary for taxpayers to pay provisional tax?


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Moreover, the suspension of the collection of provisional tax for one year will not have much impact on the Government. If taxpayers can maintain a good earning power and a certain level of income in the coming year, the same amount of tax will anyway have to be paid to the Government a year later. Such a move will not impose much financial burden on the Government, but it can genuinely help the people out because they are really earning less and underemployed. How come the Government cannot consider adopting other measures so that members of the public can instantly see the effectiveness of the relief measures introduced? As for the tax concession measures currently proposed by the Government, taxpayers will come to realize that they have already got tax reduction when they receive the demand noted for tax, but they will not have the feeling that they are actually given a sum of money to offer them some help. Hence, I very much hope that the Government will handle the matter in a more down to earth manner, and try to consider the issue from the perspective of taxpayers, because they will really feel much happier if they are allowed to hold over the payment of provisional tax, and this approach is actually more superior than the proposed tax concession measures under discussion. Of course, we will not oppose this measure, but for many people, the happiness, satisfaction, sense of gain and feeling of well-being brought by the proposed measures can definitely in no way compare with the joy of knowing that they do not have to pay provisional tax when receiving the demand notes for tax. I very much hope that the Government will seriously consider our proposal. We of course understand that as pointed out by the Government, for those who experience real difficulties in their work and are faced with the problem of unemployment or a reduction in income, alternate arrangements can always be made for them to apply for holding over the payment of their provisional tax. It is correct that they can make an application for this purpose, but they will be required to provide all kinds of information such as their income proof, and this is indeed a nuisance to them. The Government always tends to make arrangements that will create a nuisance to the people, just like the decision last year to hand out $4,000, for which there are still cases awaiting to be handled. Hong Kong people are always asked by the Government to submit applications for nearly everything, very troublesome. As some fellow colleagues have mentioned just now, a businessman has donated a sum of money to assist small and medium enterprises, and this gesture has won applause from the public. What is the most important message behind?


I do not think the amount of money allocated by the Government for relieving people's hardship would compare less favourably than that donated by that businessman, but from the perspective of the beneficiaries, the latter can at least save them the trouble of making an application for assistance. The Government tends to create troubles for the people by requiring them to make all sorts of applications. Therefore, with regard to this amendment, we are of the view that since the objective for proposing the amendment and the tax concession measure is to provide assistance to taxpayers and alleviate their financial burden in the face of the current economic downturn, the Government should avoid coming up with some ridiculous and silly means to implement its idea, thus sparking off public grievances despite the considerable amount of money spent. The Government should instead take practical steps to implement measures that are easily noticeable to the general public and can readily win people's support. For example, can consideration be given to suspending the provisional tax payment for one year? Moreover, if taxpayers are able to earn the same level of income next year, I am sure they will not mind paying the tax to the Government then, but the Government can at least offer them some practical assistance at a time of economic difficulties this year when many people, as I have specifically pointed out just now, have to take out a loan to meet tax expenses. The Government has in fact got the relevant figures at hand and should know very well how many taxpayers have to take out a tax loan to meet expenses in this respect. Although the demand notes for tax have yet to be issued, many taxpayers have to make arrangements for taking out a tax loan every year once they receive the demand notes for tax. If they are not required to pay provisional tax, they can at least borrow less even though they have to take out a loan, and in turn pay less interests to the lending bank. Can the Government provide them with such assistance? I reiterate that we will definitely give our support to the proposed amendment, but I actually do not know what logic does the Government have. How did the Government work out this percentage for tax reduction? Why should the reduction rate be increased from 75% to 100% with a ceiling of $20,000? What is the purpose behind? What is the target group of this concession measure?


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Can the provision of the proposed tax concession really help the people? Many people are worried about whether they still have a job tomorrow and next month. In particular, the trade union to which I belong is now providing assistance to many workers in the catering industry, because many restaurants for which they used to work have already gone out of business. We are now assisting more than 1 000 workers in the industry finding jobs, with the closures of restaurants one after another, these workers have been laid off, and some even have to take action to recover their outstanding wages, their livelihoods tomorrow are uncertain. Some practitioners in the tourism industry can receive not even a single tour group and have no income at all. The Government announced to provide travel agents with a cash incentive of $120 for each inbound visitor and $100 for every outbound traveller they serve, but trade practitioners will not benefit from it. They would also very much like to enjoy the tax concessions offered, but what they wish to say is: It will be perfect if they still have to pay tax, unlike their current zero income situation. Apart from proposing these amendments to its arrangements in respect of the provision of tax concessions, what measures has the Government put in place to ensure income stability of wage earners, so that their livelihood can be safeguarded and, even better, they will still have to pay tax? If this target cannot be achieved, the passage of the proposed tax concession measure will not benefit them. Moreover, if the economic situation in Hong Kong keeps deteriorating, violent incidents will continue, visitors will be deterred from coming to Hong Kong, and both investors and tourists will be driven away, is it the Government's intention to put forward similar proposals again and again? The Bill was originally scheduled to be deliberated and passed in June, but the situation then did not allow us to continue discussing it at a Council meeting, and our deliberation has thus been delayed until now. It so happened that the Government has later proposed to increase the tax reduction rate from 75% to 100% and so, an amendment to this effect is now proposed to the Bill. If the economy of Hong Kong continues to deteriorate after the passage of the Bill, will the Secretary introduce another bill? What ideas will he come up then? Instead of doing so, should the Government tackle at source the problem of social unrest in Hong Kong, so as to enable our economy to recover as soon as possible? The Government has repeatedly emphasized the need to stop violence and curb disorder, but this is merely empty talk. The Chief Executive is no better because she has just called on everyone to condemn and oppose violence, but


what else has the Government done in this respect? Apart from encouraging dialogue, what else has the Government done over the past few months? After the exchange of dialogue, those expressing their views were subsequently doxxed, and their identities were exposed. How can there be further dialogue between both sides in the future under such circumstances? Such acts of "black terror" and violence are spreading now in society. Electioneering activities in relation to the upcoming District Council election have started recently, but the propaganda materials of many candidates were vandalized. All of my 20 banners were slashed, and my office has thrice become the target of attack. In the face of so many violent incidents, what measures has the Government taken to genuinely stop violence and curb disorder? It would be relatively easy to take the opportunity of the Bill to further increase the tax reduction rate from 75% to 100%, but apart from this, has the Government adopted other difficult but effective measures? Will the Government examine other laws and explore ways to genuinely stop violence and curb disorder? Can the Government exhaust all the means permissible under the law to stop the current violence? What legal safeguards are in place to truly protect Hong Kong people, so that they are free from fear and do not have to live under the threat of "black terror"? Has the Government made a comprehensive review of the existing legislation, or has it opted for an easier way out by taking the opportunity of the Bill pending deliberation by the Legislative Council, and hence proposed an increase in the tax reduction rate from 75% to 100%? Has the Government adopted any measures that can fundamentally solve the problem? We have been talking for several months about how members of the public are living in fear every day, and how wage earners cannot find a way out and are living from hand to mouth. As I pointed out last time, we are assisting a large number of practitioners in the tourism industry switching to security jobs, because they really have no alternative when it is uncertain whether there will be tour groups visiting Hong Kong or business to do after six months or a few months. The situation now is even worse than that during the SARS outbreak, because we all knew at that time that the economic situation would improve once Hong Kong successfully stopped the SARS epidemic, but now it is uncertain when we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Therefore, it is not enough for the Government to rely on the Bill under scrutiny. We will of course give the proposed amendments our support, but more importantly, the Government should comprehensively review the existing


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legislation and examine how it can put an end to the current violent incidence, so that the general public will no longer have to live under the threat of "black terror". I cannot help wondering what these officials would be doing today had this Council deliberated on and passed the Bill in July. Would they introduce another bill or give up the idea of further increasing the tax reduction rate from 75% to 100%, and try to find another way out? Have they ever seriously considered what they should do to genuinely help the people? Chairman, I would like to point out once again that as far as members of the general public are concerned, the proposals contained in the Bill are just better than none. The most important thing is that the Government should try very hard to improve the very poor social and economic conditions at present, put an end to all sorts of violent clashes, genuinely stop violence and curb disorder, and take concrete actions instead of indulging in empty talk. (The buzzer sounded) CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Ms MAK, please stop speaking. MR CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, as I have pointed out during the resumption of the Second Reading of the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019, I support the Secretary's amendment which raises the rebate rates of salaries tax, tax under personal assessment and profits tax from 75% as originally proposed to 100%. Meanwhile, the rebate ceilings are only maintained at $20,000 now. I hope the Government will raise them to $30,000 when proposing similar measures next year, so as to provide more effective relief to the middle class. With regard to the increased percentage of the current tax rebate rates, some would consider it a drop in the ocean, as the extra 25 percentage points in reduction means only a saving of $1,000 to $2,000, or slightly more than $1,000 in each case. After all, such a concession measure can anyway bring certain emotional relief to the people and businesses, amid the riots which have lasted for several months. As for the tax concession, I would like to point out that not everyone has to pay tax and not every company enjoys a profit. Therefore, the tax rebate measure may not bring benefit to every citizen or company. I strongly support the Secretary in widening the scope of relief measures, and particularly in


targeting those which are most affected by the riots, such as the tourism, transport, catering and retail industries. Last week, a new round of relief measures was introduced. Some of the measures are incentive-based and some others are subsidy-based, for instances subsidies in electricity charges and fuel costs, and they are all assistances in various degrees. Upholding the principle of helping those in need, the Government provides support to the affected industries and this is good. These industries, which are already operating with difficulties, face further risks of getting vandalized or boycotted. They are in dire need of support from the Government to lighten their burden. Last Sunday, for instance, the disturbances which started from some time past two in the afternoon lasted till dawn the next day, lingered for as long as half a day. The core districts throughout the entire Kowloon, including Yau Tsim Mong, Kowloon City and Sham Shui Po were all affected, creating highly chaotic scenes which resembled those in a battlefield. How can shops get a chance to do business? And how can people feel like spending then? But then, the affected industries definitely are not confined to the first things which come to our mind, such as the tourism, retail, catering, transportation industries, and so on. The financial services industry in which I am a practitioner also belongs to one of the hardest hit sectors. The great majority of those in this trade cannot benefit from the tax concession measure, as the majority of small-and-medium-sized securities dealers make no profit and hence pay no tax. The Secretary's proposal to raise the tax rebate rate from 75% to 100% actually renders no help to them. Chairman, some may say that the current performance of the Hong Kong stock market is not bad, as it enjoys a turnover of $60 billion to $70 billion a day. So, why is the financial services industry a severely hit sector then? I would like to point out that this transaction figure is even lower than the level before the launch of the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect and the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect. If we exclude the transaction volume of the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect and the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect, as well as those of the derivative products which serve offsetting purposes, the actual stock trading value may only add up to $30 billion to $40 billion. This amount, when shared among more than 600 brokers, simply leaves no room for survival.


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As a matter of fact, the demand from the industry to the Government is very simple. It only asks for an exemption of licence fee, as well as a reduction of the heavy expenses incurred for the constant upgrading of the trading system at the Hong Kong Exchange and Clearing Limited, so as to alleviate our burden. It is highly unfortunate that the three rounds of relief programmes have not covered the financial services industry, showing that its plight has been completed ignored by the Government. I would like to ask Members not to forget that the financial services industry contributes to the Hong Kong economy considerably, as it makes up close to 19% of the Gross Domestic Product and employs tens of thousands of people. People may find the recent good performances of new stocks and consider that the entire market is not completely inactive. But I would like to point out there are studies indicating that despite the sizable volume of initial public offerings in Hong Kong, the stock trading of many companies takes place only during the first few days of listing and no more transactions are recorded afterwards. Being transient like a dandelion flower, it will not bring much contribution to the overall financial market in Hong Kong. Conversely, many enterprises have shelved, or even withdrawn their listing plans in Hong Kong because of the riots and the uncertainties in the market. It is predicted that the number of listed companies will quickly plummet 50% next year from the current level and hence the financial services industry will be confronted with a roller coaster of adversity, needing the Government's attention and support. I would like to point out that the continuing riots over the last few months have greatly disrupted the lives of the people, seriously undermined Hong Kong's economy, dealt a heavy blow to Hong Kong's status as an international financial centre, and thus breaking the hearts of all those who love the territory sincerely. We also notice the emigration tide again, we lose confidence in Hong Kong and are clueless about the timing of its recovery. The breakdown of confidence is felt even more severely than during the emigration tide in 1997. We too see an increase in clients who open offshore bank accounts and personal accounts. While outflow of funds on a massive scale has not been seen, this is already a serious signal. They hold that if the riots cannot be resolved over a prolonged period, a massive outflow of funds may emerge next year. Therefore, we must immediately stop all operations which aim at bringing about "mutual destruction". Otherwise, this hurricane may uproot Hong Kong's century-old foundation anytime. At the end of the day, stopping violence and


curbing disorder remains a best resolution. Hong Kong people must therefore stand united, break ranks with the wreakers, and disallow them to arbitrarily wreck our home, this international metropolis of Hong Kong. Now the Christmas and New Year consumer spending seasons are coming close, we should all the more put on thinking caps to help seek solutions for restoring social order and reviving consumer confidence among the people and the tourists. Moreover, in the new Budget early next year, the Financial Secretary should also step up relief measures to offer a generous handout of cash and other benefits. For instance, the salaries tax rebate ceilings can be raised to $30,000 while the concession rates kept at 100%, in order to benefit the middle class directly. Furthermore, a substantial rise in rates concession for shops should be provided, so as to help those people and shops affected to brace for the possible economic winter which may come along. With these remarks, Chairman, I support the early passage of this amendment to allow taxpayers at large to receive this concession before the tax due dates next year, for the sake of relieving their economic burden. Thank you. MR FRANKIE YICK (in Cantonese): Chairman, I speak in support of the Government's proposed amendments in relation to the tax concessions. In February this year, the Financial Secretary proposed in the Budget reductions of salaries tax, tax under personal assessment ("PA") and profits tax for year of assessment ("YA") 2018-2019 by 75%, subject to a ceiling of $20,000 per case. To give effect to the proposal, the Administration subsequently presented to this Council in March this year the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 ("the Bill"). According to the information provided by the Government, the above concession proposal will benefit 1.91 million tax-paying citizens and more than 140 000 profits tax-paying companies. It is estimated that the Government will thus forgo $18.9 billion in revenue, of which $17 billion comes from concessions in salaries tax and tax under PA, and $1.9 billion from concessions in profits tax. Out of the $340 billion provisional figure for total tax revenue in YA 2019-2020 as predicted by the Inland Revenue Department, this $18.9 billion only accounts for 5.5%.


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As the Sino-United States trade war continues, the global economy is tending towards instability. Meanwhile, incidents of protests and clashes brought about by the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (Amendment) Bill 2019 sustained over the last few months in Hong Kong. Consequently, as a result of an extremely low consumer sentiment, people are reluctant to spend outside home, the number of tourists visiting Hong Kong plunges, industries such as retail, catering and tourism are severely affected. Faced with dual attacks from both the domestic and the foreign fronts, the Government has downwardly adjusted the real growth in gross domestic product for 2019 repeatedly, signalling a gloomy economic outlook in Hong Kong. As a matter of fact, the economic situation in Hong Kong is seriously bad, even more so than it was in 2003 during the SARS outbreak. In view of the economic uncertainties, the Financial Secretary announced a series of measures in 15 August for the purposes of "supporting enterprises, safeguarding jobs, stabilizing the economy". Among them there are tax concessions: raising the concession rates for salaries tax, tax under PA and profits tax from 75% to 100%. However, the relevant concession ceilings remain at $20,000. They have not reached the YA 2017-2018 level of $30,000, not to mention the suggested level of $40,000 by the Liberal Party. The Government proposed to reduce the concession ceilings for salaries tax, tax under PA and profits tax from $30,000 in YA 2017-2018 to $20,000 in YA 2018-2019, or for one third substantially. With the widening and increase of the tax bands in relation to salaries tax and tax under PA in YA 2018-2019, some taxpayers will have a smaller amount of tax concession, which cannot be fully compensated by the Government's increase in tax concession rates. It is expected that those taxpayers who would have benefited, i.e. those earning between $400,000 and $600,000 a year, will no longer benefit from the measures concerned, and the number of those affected is estimated at about 600 000. The Liberal Party hence expresses disappointment about the Government's increase of tax concession rates without raising the ceilings. However, under the austere economic environment at present, the Liberal Party is going to support the relevant Government amendments anyway, so as to avoid further complication and let the relevant concessions be reflected in the tax demand notes this year. After the Government has raised the concession rates of salaries tax, tax under PA and profits tax from 75% to 100%, among those 2.05 million cases that already enjoy the relief measure, 1.43 million will further benefit from the


Government's additional proposal and each of them will thus pay $250 to $5,000 less in tax. The Government will therefore forgo $1.84 billion more in tax revenue. Eventually, the entire tax concession measure will only cause the Government to forgo $20.7 billion in tax, which makes up only about 6% of the $340 billion provisional figure for total tax revenue. However, among a total of close to 2 million taxpayers chargeable to salaries tax and tax under PA, 1.31 million will benefit from the tax concessions in question, making up more than 60% of all taxpayers. Hence, while being less than perfect, the concession measure is anyway a benevolent gesture to the majority of taxpayers under the bleak economic condition right now. Hong Kong is now experiencing an economic downturn which can hardly be improved within a short period. The economic outlook for next year is not optimistic either. With a trillion-dollar financial reserve, the authorities should be bolder and more generous when proposing relief measures in the next Budget. Apart from maintaining the 100% concession rates in salaries tax, tax under PA and profits tax, the concession ceiling for each case should at least be raised to $40,000 as suggested by the Liberal Party. Almost half of the wage earners are not subject to tax. As they are unable to benefit from the Government's tax concession measure, it is hoped that the Government can take into consideration their actual situations and introduce other relief measures in a timely manner to help them tide over the current hardship. Secretary, there is one thing that I would like to inform you here. The Panel on Economic Development discussed on Monday the Policy Address this year. During that occasion I told Secretary Frank CHAN that when the Financial Secretary announced these relief measures the first time, he specified that the Government would ask the Airport Authority Hong Kong ("AA") to formulate concession measures for the aviation industry. I reminded the Secretary in the meeting that AA had yet to put forward any relevant measure. I keep following up on the issue and the information I get today shows that AA apparently has no plan to propose any proposal for relieving the difficulties faced by the entire aviation industry. Therefore, here I hope that Secretary LAU will pass this message to the Financial Secretary. When making the announcement, he has put down such a line to entrust AA with a follow-up task. However, the task has yet to be handled as of now. I will also write to the Financial Secretary, hoping that he will follow up on this matter. I would also like the Secretary to pass this message to him.


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With these remarks, Chairman, I support the Government's raising the concession rates for salaries tax, tax under PA and profits tax from 75% to 100% for YA 2018-2019. I also support the amendment to the Bill's long title. MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): Chairman, the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 ("the Bill") comes from the 2019-2020 Budget, which proposes reducing the tax under personal assessment, profits tax and salaries tax for the year of assessment 2018-2019 by 75%, subject to a ceiling of $20,000 per case. The Bill will benefit 2.05 million taxpayers and enterprises. In response to the present predicament besetting Hong Kong, the Financial Secretary announced earlier further increasing the tax reduction from 75% to 100%, while retaining the ceiling of $20,000 per case. I certainly support this new measure because it can benefit many taxpayers and alleviate their burden. But I doubt whether this concession measure is sufficient to practically address the present predicament. The riots over the past four months have upset business environment. I have received many similar complaints and many people have conveyed the same to me. As far as we know, some 200 or 300 catering establishments have closed down. Members of the industry say that over 1 000 restaurants may close down at year end. Even wedding banquet restaurants, which have been doing quite well, have received many cancellations of bookings and almost no bookings for the coming year. They may also have to close down when they cannot pay the rents. The logistics industry is facing a serious challenge as well, and the tourism industry is even worse. Inbound tourists have dropped by 50%. Many tour guides have had no income since a few months ago. Retailing businesses have plummeted, partly due to the drop in tourists and partly due to weak local spending sentiments. People refrain from going out on Friday, Saturday and Sunday for fear that they may not have the transport to return home. People do not know where the riots will break out, thus dampening their spending sentiments. Members of the beauty industry have also told us that their business has dropped by 50% to 70%. Apart from the industries which have been seriously affected, I learn from different IT practitioners in recent encounters that their industry has also run into


great difficulties, including start-ups which have been doing quite well in the past few years. The problem in Hong Kong is that there has been too much negative coverage about Hong Kong by the foreign media, which says that the system of "one country, two systems" in Hong Kong has derailed. Such coverage, however, neither report the root cause of the incidents, nor rioters assaulting other people. It smears the Hong Kong Government. Many investors have thus hold cash in hand and many investment projects originally planned in Hong Kong have been shelved. The problem facing us now is that many people will soon lose their jobs or become unemployed. Employers are facing great difficulties as well. Many owners of micro, small and medium enterprises of the retail and service industries have told us that their tenancies are signed with their own guarantee, so it is not that easy for them to wind up their businesses even if they wish to do so. They need to consider the way forward and the viability and sustainability of their business. Hence, despite the fact that the Government has recently launched relief measures which will provide loan guarantee for them, they are reluctant to do so because they do not know how long they can sustain their business after taking out the loan. Since these business operators have signed their tenancies with their own guarantee, some of them already have to subsidize their company expenses by refinancing their personal properties. Some employers have already informed their staff of the possibility of dismissal in the future. But they may still have to liquidate their business if they cannot compensate their dismissed staff. If staff members are willing to stay, they very likely will have to work for a few months without any pay. I personally know some very good employees. They go to work as usual although they will not receive any income this month. They want to stand by their employers to weather the difficulties together, while their employers continue to draw cash out by property refinancing to cover the rents. So, if unemployment continues to increase, people continue to receive no income and employers continue to make a loss with their companies, first, the employers cannot sustain their business for a long time; and second, the tax reduction measure of the Government is not enough to help them. When they no longer need to pay tax, the tax reduction measure will become meaningless to them.


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Apart from the grass roots I mentioned just now, many employers are the middle class and their situation is grave. They relayed to us that in the past when the Government ran into a crisis or when it was financially affluent, it would dish out more handouts than it did now. Why is the Government so stingy when Hong Kong is in such a grave situation? This is true. If we look at the Financial Year 2017-2018, the Government was very generous and reduced the salaries tax, tax under personal assessment and profits tax by 75% together with a ceiling of $30,000 per case. It also increased the width of marginal tax bands from $45,000 to $50,000. The measures benefited many people. However, if we look at the measures this year, the Government increased the tax reduction to 100% but it set the tax reduction ceiling at $20,000 only per case. This means that not many people can enjoy a large tax concession. Hence, the Government has not provided sufficient support to the people in such a hard time. Should it not reconsider raising the tax reduction ceiling to $30,000 or above? I think the Government should give this some thought. Actually, apart from taxation measures, there are many other things the Government can do. Take the technology sector as an example. The Secretary can listen to what I have to say. The Government has enhanced the Technology Voucher Programme ("TVP") and increased the funding ceiling per applicant from $200,000 to $400,000. However, the problem is that the applicant still has to pay half of the cost of a project. It means that the Government and the applicant each have to share half of the cost. The market is now very quiet. IT companies do not have much work to do. If these companies can remain viable and will not wind up their business, they should take this opportunity to upgrade and transform their business, train their staff for skill enhancement, or improve their computer system and technology application. Enhancing TVP is supposed to be something good and conducive to these companies. However, in order to take forward a $400,000 IT project, these companies must pay $200,000. Under the present situation, how could they afford to do so? No, they could not. Hence, if the Government truly wishes to assist these enterprises, it can lower the proportion of their capital investment by changing the TVP ratio from 2:1 to 4:1. By so doing, the Government can help IT companies to tide over the present hardship and take up more projects. This approach can also encourage small and medium enterprises ("SMEs") or different enterprises to make good use of TVP to better apply innovation technology in their company.


Moreover, some IT company operators have told me the challenges they encountered in taking up government projects. If they can manage to take up a government project, they will then have to purchase bonds from banks. Nowadays, banks have tightened up financing for SMEs. Chairman, this has been a serious problem to them. People of different industries, from beauty, retail, catering to IT companies, have complained to me that although they have maintained decades of a good relationship with the banks and without any record of bad debt, they received requests from the banks to provide detailed information of their companies and submit all financial reports of the past few financial years. Moreover, they were asked to provide information on their personal assets, such as the capital in their bank accounts and customers' receipts for scrutiny by the banks. They complain that some of the information is trade secrets and should not be given to the banks. But if they do not provide all the information, the banks would not sell the bonds to them. That is to say, if they fail to buy a million dollar-worth of bonds from the bank, they cannot take forward the government project. They simply cannot manage to do so. Worse still, if the company does not provide all the information, the bank concerned will cancel their company account, let alone refusing to sell the bonds to it. If the company does not have an account, it cannot pay out salaries and credit its revenue. This is indeed a very serious problem. People of the service and retail industries have told us that the banks had been calling their loans; some time earlier, the banks even requested companies to deposit three to five months of capital in their credit card account as a guarantee, and now the banks even required them to have six to seven months of savings. This is a critical problem indeed. Hence, take TVP as an example. If the Secretary truly wishes to assist enterprises, he may consider launching more government projects as soon as possible. Just now, I was mainly saying the IT industry; but this should also apply to other industries. The application processing should be expedited. Take IT as an example. It takes more than three months to vet and approve an IT project. If a company misses the application period, it will have to wait for half a year for the next round of application. Secretary, can the processing time be shortened?


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Moreover, Secretary, can these companies be exempted from buying bonds during this period of time? It is because they may not be able to buy any even if they wish to do so. If the Government can exempt them from purchasing bonds and also expedite the disbursement of the first round of funding to them, they can then start working on the project. On the other hand, if they fail to buy any bonds and the Government stalls on disbursing the first round of funding to them, they will have to consider opting out from the government project. This is a very practical problem. Similarly, other companies doing business with the Government may also run into the same problem. The Government should consider how to help them to continue their business. It must help as many of them as possible and strive to do whenever it can. Chairman, in addition to the examples above, we must also consider the shops which have been subject to vandalism due to their political orientation. These shops, such as Mainland-funded shops or pro-Police shops, have been vandalized and suffer serious losses. What can the Government do for them? How will it help them? Does it care about them? Does it know their latest situation? How will it help them to restore their shops? Those large chain-group stores may be able to survive the attacks, but what about those small stores? Does the Government have any means to help these small stores to weather the current storm … CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Ms Elizabeth QUAT, please come back to the subject of the debate. MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): Yes, Chairman. I certainly support tax reduction, but implementing tax reduction alone is not enough to help the public because many of them will soon become non-taxpayers. Hence, stopping violence and stopping their losses are still a priority task. Many people are still bad-mouthing Hong Kong abroad. They hold a double standard on Hong Kong. At present, apart from the black-clad rioters starting the riots in Hong Kong, people in Spain and Chile are mimicking the rioters in Hong Kong. They vandalized subways and torched shops. But the foreign media only criticized Hong Kong, describing Hong Kong policemen as brutal and the policemen abroad heroic. The rioters in Hong Kong blatantly burnt down banks, but the foreign media said they were only staging non-violent


protests. Even the Vice-President of the United States said those were non-violent protests. However, if rioters in their countries burnt down subways or banks, the same people would name such activities as riots. So, we can see how foreign countries hold a double-standard on Hong Kong. Why do they have to do so? All they want is to smear Hong Kong by dismissing the "one country, two systems" of Hong Kong as a failure, in order to impede the progress of China and deal a blow to our country. I thus asked the Secretary earlier about the impacts of these foreign smearing on the reputation of Hong Kong. Also, even if the Government manages to stop violence and curb disorder, it is not that easy for Hong Kong to recover. Secretary Edward YAU thus said that the Government would have to rely on the 14 Economic and Trade Offices ("ETO") to clarify our situation. I think this is too passive. If the Government truly wishes to help the Hong Kong citizens, it should do more than providing tax reduction. Would the Government please conduct more publicity and promotion and more proactively clarify our situation. Tell other countries the actual situation of Hong Kong. It should do so not just to the governments in Europe and the United States, but also to their people. If the authorities only make clarifications to local government officials through the relevant ETOs, only the local government officials will know our situation and not the local citizens or parliamentary members. Hence, their parliaments will continue to criticize Hong Kong and submit some bills to impose sanctions on Hong Kong. This will have an immense impact on Hong Kong. Hence, apart from making clarifications to foreign government officials, our Government should also proactively conduct more publicity and promotion by means of advertisements, or entrust professional lobbying companies to do the work. It should also let the people and parliamentary members in Europe and the United States clearly know the actual situation of Hong Kong. Actually, a key point is that Hong Kong people need to know that the anti-extradition bill altercation has evolved into uncontrollable violence. Some people still think that mutual destruction is an option for Hong Kong. They hold that this can force the Central Government to give in, and induce the People's Liberation Army into Hong Kong and then veto the principle of "one country, two systems". But, may I ask what will happen to Hong Kong after such "mutual destruction"? Will there be a rebirth of Hong Kong? When all jobs are lost, and the reputation of Hong Kong ruined, how are we going to reclaim and rebuild


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the prosperity of Hong Kong which is the result of hard work of a few generations of Hong Kong people? Hence, if we want a bright future for Hong Kong and a bright future for our next generation, the key is to treasure the freedom that we now enjoy in Hong Kong. If Hong Kong is not such a free place, how could the rioters and the people who advocate "Hong Kong independence" be so loud and fierce? Hence, the people of Hong Kong must sever ties with violence and say no to "mutual destruction". Only by severing ties with violence, can we stop violence and curb disorder and let Hong Kong go back to its right track. Chairman, I so submit. MS CHAN HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, we are now discussing the amendments of the Inland Revenue (Amendment) (Tax Concessions) Bill 2019 ("the Bill"). The content of the amendments is to increase the tax concession rate of salaries tax, profits tax and tax under personal assessment for the year of assessment 2018-2019 from the original 75% to 100%. However, it is very strange that the ceiling of $20,000 per case is still retained. This amended measure was actually announced two months ago, i.e. in August. The Financial Secretary said back then that the tax concession rate was increased in order to counter the challenging external and local economic environment, and through the amendments, about 1.43 million taxpayers or enterprises will benefit from a further saving of $1.84 billion. While the Financial Secretary describes the economic environment as "challenging", the ceiling is still retained at $20,000. I will later also mention that the number of people who would benefit will actually be fewer than that of last year. Hence, it is beyond my understanding why the Government only raises the concession rate but not the ceiling. In regard to this amended measure, as a few Members said, it is merely a petty favour. Although some taxpayers can benefit―most colleagues support the Bill because some taxpayers stand to gain―since the Government describes the current economic environment as "challenging", can it actually consider relaxing the ceiling of $20,000 per case, for example raising it to $30,000 as specified last year or even higher, so as to benefit more taxpayers or enterprises?


My introduction of this proposal is not without grounds. We can make a comparison with the situation last year. In the 2017-2018 Budget, the Financial Secretary proposed a ceiling of $30,000 for the tax reduction of salaries tax and tax under personal assessment. At present, even though the Financial Secretary describes the current economic environment as so "challenging", the ceiling is lowered this year, which I find hard to comprehend. According to the information paper of the Legislative Council, in respect of the 2017-2018 Budget, about 1.88 million taxpayers of salaries tax and tax under personal assessment, together with 142 000 tax-paying corporations and unincorporated businesses benefited from the tax concessions. But this year, the measure will only benefit 1.43 million taxpayers, and I think quite a number of people will find it disappointing. When introducing this amended measure, the Government points out that the current economy is very difficult. In fact, where do the challenging economic difficulties come from? I think we are surely very clear about the unprecedented social unrest in the past several months. The incessant clashes in these few months were derived from the opposition against the amendment to the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (Amendment) Bill 2019 ("the Fugitive Offenders Bill"), which is dealing a devastating blow to the livelihood and economy of Hong Kong, and adversely affecting our catering, retail, tourism, hotel and aviation industries, and other industries, you name it. People in the industries even say that the negative impact concerned is even more serious than that brought about by the "Occupy Central incident" in 2014 and the outbreak of SARS in 2003. However, some people are still glorifying this incident. Some Members glorify the violence and even the illegal activities triggered by the Fugitive Offenders Bill. They glorify that what the protesters have done is for the sake of Hong Kong and for our next generation. I hope that we can look at some specific figures, as I think figures will not deceive us. We should not glorify this whole incident or glorify the violence with some fabulous adjectives. Let us look at some specific figures, and see how Hong Kong's economy and livelihood are seriously affected by this incident. Owing to the social turmoil in Hong Kong, with vandalism and arson attacks happening everywhere as well as disturbances in the airport, over 30 countries and regions have already issued travel alerts for Hong Kong. During this period of time, many overseas visitors do not want to travel to Hong Kong, because even if they can arrive in Hong Kong, there may be times when they are unable to go travelling and


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shopping around, unable to use local transport, and unable to go to the airport due to road blockage. And in case there is any change to the flight schedule, they are not sure whether this is covered by insurance. Hence, many overseas visitors are deterred from travelling to Hong Kong. Let us look at the statistics of the Airport Authority Hong Kong. In recent months, there was a drastic drop in the number of visitors. The airport only recorded a total throughput of 6 million passengers in August, a drop of 12.4% when compared with the figure of the same period last year. What about aircraft movements? We saw a year-on-year decrease of 3.5%, with only 35 655 movements. What about air cargo? In August, a drop of 11.5%, with only 382 000 tonnes of air cargo, was recorded when compared with the figure of the same period last year. Some people still make sarcastic comments that it is nice to have a decrease in the number of visitors, because they feel more comfortable walking in the street or shopping with fewer visitors. That being said, under this situation, many innocent citizens and innocent Hong Kong people may be forced to be temporarily out of job or may even lose their jobs. Let us look at the aviation industry of Hong Kong, which is being affected by the recent social incident. Some airlines have already announced reduction of flights or less service, as there were losses incurred in the operation of certain routes. One of these airlines has already stated clearly to its staff that they may need to consider taking no-pay leave or even consider a pay cut. What about the visitor flow through land crossings? We can have a look at the latest figures from the Travel Industry Council of Hong Kong. In terms of visitors entering the territory by land, including tour groups from the Mainland, during the first 10 days in September (i.e. last month), there were only 15 groups on average from the Mainland to Hong Kong, a drastic year-on-year drop of 90%. With the phenomenal decrease in the number of tour groups visiting Hong Kong, the livelihood of coach drivers and local tour guides is the first to bear the brunt. Some drivers may have zero income for the whole month. Certain industries, such as the retail industry, are even worried that there will be waves of business closures. The decrease in the number of visitors in Hong Kong has affected certain industries. In the hotel industry, for example, the hotel room prices have taken a nosedive. Some hotels have originally reserved certain hotel rooms for local receiving agents to receive tours. But with the drastic drop in the number of tours visiting Hong Kong, only very limited number of visitors were received. What should the hotels do? They could only slash the prices of the reserved hotel rooms excessively in order to make up for the losses.


Apart from the aviation and the hotel industries, we can also look at the catering industry, and the shops selling cosmetics and clothes. Certain listed companies have respectively issued profit warnings, signifying that the public are more cautious with their consumption when social environment and sentiment remain in the doldrums. In other words, in the face of the current social unrest, Hong Kong people do not want to spend money, do not dare to go out, and thus the business of the catering industry and of the shops selling cosmetics and clothes is adversely affected. We shall not only talk about listed companies, let us talk about small scale shops. Along Fuk Wing Street and Pei Ho Street in Sham Shui Po, for example, there are small shops selling toys. In the past, it was hard to find a vacant shop premise in that area. Rarely could we find even one vacant shop premise available for leasing. Nevertheless, when I visited that district a few days ago, I noticed the closures of four to five toys shops and stationery shops, possibly attributed to the current economic environment. If someone wants to rent a shop premise, he can now choose among a few vacant shop premises. But do you dare to rent it? Can you do any business under the environment nowadays? Hence, I really cannot understand why some Members have to glorify the present situation. They say that the business of some shops has turned better and some shopping malls are more frequently patronized than before. We have to think why this situation would happen. It is because after certain shop owners have aired their different views from the protesters, their shops were instantly vandalized and they could not do any business even though they wanted to. Sure enough, if certain shop owners have expressed their support to the demonstrations and processions, some people will guide the public to continue patronizing these shops. This situation is in fact very unhealthy. Hong Kong has a free economic environment … CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Ms CHAN Hoi-yan, please return to the subject of this debate. MS CHAN HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): All right. The situation that I just pointed out is related to this tax concessionary measure amended by the Government. I want to say that this measure actually gives little help to the public and shop operators, because the public and shop operators are now facing very poor economic conditions. I believe the Administration is also aware of


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this difficult situation, can foresee that the economic difficulties will go on while the unemployment rate will rise and shops will close down one after the other. The general public have already felt the economic depression. Facing this adverse situation, the Financial Secretary described earlier that this economic condition was challenging. However, can the Government really help the public with this amended tax concessionary measure alone? Of course, the Bureau will say that other measures will be introduced together. Nonetheless, in my view, the petty favour from this amended tax concessionary measure can only offer assistance to very few people. We can only describe it as a drop in the ocean or merely better than nothing, which can only have a slight alleviating effect. I particularly want to discuss more about the situation of the middle class. The middle class enjoys very limited social welfare. In fact, tax rebate is one of the very few relief measures that these people can benefit. However, in this Budget, the ceiling for the tax concession of salaries tax is downwardly adjusted from $30,000 in the year of assessment 2017-2018 to $20,000 this year. As a result, the tax burden on high-income employees will actually be heavier instead of lighter. Let me illustrate with an example. A single employee has an annual income of $500,000, that means a monthly salary of about $41,000 on average. He does not need to support his parents and only enjoys the tax deduction of $18,000 for his contributions to the Mandatory Provident Fund ("MPF") and the basic allowance of $132,000. In the year of assessment 2017-2018 before the tax bands were widened, the tax payable by him was $46,000. After enjoying a maximum of $30,000 of the salaries tax concession, he actually needed to pay $16,000. However, for his situation this year, assuming that he has the same level of income but only enjoys the tax deduction for his MPF contributions and the basic allowance, the tax payable by him may be lowered to $40,000. But since the ceiling of the salaries tax concession is reduced to $20,000, meaning that he can only enjoy this tax concession of $20,000 at the most, he will actually need to pay more tax than last year. What I referred to above is the situation of the higher income group. In regard to the lower income people, such as those employees with a monthly income of below $30,000 on average, they may also benefit from the concession. But in our calculation, since the ceiling is only $20,000, they may


only save a few hundred dollars or less than $1,000 in tax payment. They can pay less tax indeed, but the amount saved is really minimal. Therefore, when introducing this Bill, if the Government had also found the current economic environment challenging, it should have introduced more specific relief measures so that taxpayers could really feel the Government's assistance and have their burden relieved, instead of introducing this measure which only allows citizens to save just a few hundred to a little more than $1,000 in tax payment. Facing the current economic difficulties and foreseeing that the future economy will be even worse, not a few citizens feel very depressed and perplexed. In fact, we are placing hope with the entire Government, with various public officers joining hands, to resolve the present plight, rather than only relying on the Police to change the current situation. As regards the relief measures, the Government should figure out ways which can genuinely help the public and roll out measures which can win applauses and "likes" from the public, instead of playing the same old tunes by simply changing the figures of the measure adopted last year. Finally, I will still support this Bill even though not many citizens can benefit. However, in the face of social unrest at this moment, many citizens may be worried whether they can still retain their jobs or about their ability to pay tax in future. Hence, I ask the Government to consider the situation again, because very soon, it may have to roll out new measures to protect the employment of the public. I wonder what new measures the Government will introduce to help the public then. Anyway, the Government should bear in mind that no matter what measure is introduced, it should use the most direct, simple and expeditious way to help the public, instead of coming up with some those measures like the cash handouts of up to $4,000 to the public who, however, have not received the money hitherto. I so submit. Thank you, Chairman. SUSPENSION OF MEETING CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I now suspend the meeting until 9 am tomorrow. Suspended accordingly at 7:21 pm.

Documents

OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 30 October 2019 … · 2020. 1. 13. · LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 30 October 2019 653 . OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS . Wednesday, 30 October