Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 11 SEPTEMBER 1968

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

334 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

WEDNESDAY ~11SEPTEMBER,,·1968

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, Murrumba) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m.

QUESTIONS

EXPORTS OF QUEENSLAND PRODUCTS

Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked The Premier,-

For the years ended June 30, 1967 and 1968, what total value of what products

have been exported from Queensland to (a) Austria, (b) Mainland China, (c) the Federal Republic of Germany, (d) the U.S.S.R. and (e) Yugoslavia?

Answer:-"1 table certain export trade statistics for

the years 1966-67 and 1967-68 supplied to me by the Commonwealth Bureau of Census and Statistics. These are the only figures immediately available and relate to the more major primary and secondary products:-

1966-67

Mainland Federal I -- Austria China Republic U.S.S.R. Yugoslavia

of Germany --

$ $ $ $ $ Greasy Wool .. .. 712,788 1,515,521 6,170,062 1,933,217 1,052,091 Rutile .. .. .. .. 43,209 .. 348,160 . . . . Wheat Unmilled .. .. .. 6,865,543 .. . . . . Wool (washed, scoured or

carbonised) .. . . .. 26,127 457,541 . . .. Cattle Hides .. .. .. .. 1,195,562 .. 16,883 Sheep and Lamb Skins (wo~i

on) .. . . .. .. . . . . . . 716,600 Aluminium Bauxite .. .. .. .. 1,457,679 . . .. Zirconium .. .. .. .. . . 111,045 . . . . Duboisia Leaves . . .. .. .. 203,757 . . .. Meat Fresh (chilled and

frozen) .. . . .. .. .. 109,959 . . . .

1967-68

Greasy Wool . . . . Rutile . . . . . . . . Wheat Unmilled . . . . Wool (washed, scoured or

carbonised) . . . . Cattle Hides . . . . . . Sheep and Lamb Skins (wool

on) . . . . . . . . Zirconium . . . . . . Duboisia Leaves . . . . Meat Fresh (chilled and

frozen) . . . . . . Apples . . . . . . Inedible Tallow .. Eggs . . . . Copper Lead Scrap ..

I Austria

$ 477,612

30,623

2,823

GOVERNMENT DWELLINGS, WEIPA

Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Works,-

Has the Government been responsible for the erection of any dwellings at Weipa since 1958? If so, how many and at what total cost?

Mainland China

$ 784,673

2,921,790

5,316

10,892 129,669

Federal Republic

of Germany U.S.S.R.

$ $ 7,160,194,2,954,780

345,689 .. .. ..

379,670 897,132

137,387 201,568

13,844 117,111

89,865 565,024

I

549,464

Answer:-

I Yugoslavia

$ 1,182,751

435,147

"Dwellings have not been constructed at Weipa by either the Queensland Housing Commission or the Department of Works. I suggest that the Honourable Member direct his enquiry to the Honourable the Premier."

Questions [11 SEPTEMBER] Questions 335

RAIL FREIGHTS ON CoAL, UTAH DEVELOPMENT COMPANY

Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Transport,-

What are the terms of the Agreement with Utah Development Company relative to freight charges on coal from Blackwater to Gladstone?

Answer:-" As is usual in the agreements which the

Commissioner makes with his customers, the terms of the agreement are confidential matters between the parties."

WIDENING OF INGHAM ROAD, TOWNSVILLE

Mr. Aikens, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Mines,-

Has a firm decision yet been made to widen and reconstruct Ingham Road within the boundaries of the City of Townsville? If so, will he advise the House as fully as possible on the proposal?

Answer:-"The Townsvi!le Transportation Survey

recently carried out jointly by the Main Roads Department and the Townsvme City Council recommended that Woolcock Street should be developed as the main northern outlet to replace Ingham Road. On this basis the existing 24 feet pavement in Ingham Road would cater adequately for traffic until 1985. As part of this develop­ment it is proposed to programme for the following works:-( 1) On Ingham Road-1968-69, replace existing bridge at Henry Street; 1969-70, reconstruct intersection at Hugh Street; 1970-71, reconstruct inter­section at Kings Road. (2) On Woolcock Street-1970-71, commence construction between Charters Towers Road and Kings Road; 1971-72, section Kings Road to Hugh Street, and start section between Hugh Street and Dalrymple Road."

MANUFACTURE OF EASTER EGGS

Mr. Bromley, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Health,-

( 1) What are the names of the firms which manufacture Easter eggs for sale in Queensland?

(2) Are Easter eggs manufactured in other States or overseas countries and sold in Queensland?

( 3) Is he aware that Easter eggs retailed in Queensland contain dangerous items such as knives? If so, in the interest of safety and before manufacturers start producing for 1969, will he induce these manufacturers to discontinue the practice?

Answers:-( 1) "My Department has no list of the

manufacturers of Easter eggs in Queens­land."

(2) "Yes, Easter eggs are imported from other States and also a few from overseas."

(3) "No, my Department has not received complaints of Easter eggs con­taining knives or other dangerous items. Regulation 100 (5) of "The Food and Drug Regulations, 1964," prohibits the placing of any article in food for sale if that article (a) is likely to contaminate the food, or (b) is likely to be harmful if swallowed or taken into the mouth. Officers of my Department will continue to enforce this Regulation."

WILBUR SMITH TRANSPORTATION SURVEY

Mr. Hooper, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Mines,-

( 1) Why was the so-called Wilbur Smith Survey undertaken?

(2) Is the plan produced a fixed one, both in the major roadways proposed and in the staging of their construction?

Answers:-( 1) "The Wilbur Smith Survey was the

result of a review of the road system of the whole State which resulted in the 1963 Road Plan. It was felt that for the cities, especially Brisbane, it would be necessary to study the road needs against the whole transportation require­ments and the means which might be available to meet them. The recommenda­tions coming from the survey were for a road system to meet the City's needs up to the year 1981."

(2) "The Road Plan produced and its staging were developed for two reasons -(i) To show that the proposals were physically possible. (ii) To set out a financial programme which might be capable of being implemented. Among the survey recommendations was one for a continuing study, which has been set up. .Routes ~hown on the functional plans published wrth the report are tentative only. and their final location depends on ~eta~led surveys and engineering investiga­tions. Some of the proposals may not be considered within the next ten to fifteen years and consequently the scheme is ~ow beil!g . implemented project by pro­Ject. Thrs rs because of changing traffic patterns and changing priorities which are shown up )JY the continuing study. It has ~een decrded that as much notice as. possrbl.e-five years if practicable­Will be grven of any future projects to be undertaken and any land resumptions necessary. I understand maps are avail­able. to the public from some source pur­portmg to show the locations adopted

336 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

for certain expressways and freeways. The only official map published to depict the actual route to be taken by any of our expressway or freeway proposals is included in a brochure bearing my signa­ture. This brochure was issued last year to notify landholders and householders in the Woolloongabba area of the pro­perties affected by the Riverside Express­way and South-east Freeway proposals to be implemented between the Brisbane River and Juliette Street."

TERMITES IN IMPORTED ENCASED TIMBER

Mr. Newton, pursuant to notice, asked The Premier,-

What action has the Government taken to see that goods imported into Queensland from overseas in encased timbers are not subject to borers and other termites, which could be harmful to standing forests, timber reserves, and buildings, generally, throughout the State?

Answer:-" All timber, logs, wooden cases, and

any other articles with a timber com­ponent imported from overseas are exam­ined by plant quarantine inspectors at the port of entry. If the presence of borers or other insects is detected fumiga­tion or other approved treatment is required to be carried out before release from quarantine, or if this cannot be done satisfactorily, the material is destroyed by burning. Quarantine is the responsi­bility of the Commonwealth Department of Health and is administered on behalf of that Department by an appropriate State Department. In Queensland the Director of Horticulture is the Chief Quarantine Officer (Plants) and a staff of Plant Quarantine Inspectors operates under his jurisdiction."

BUILDINGS ON LAND RESUMED FOR MT. GRAVATT EAST STATE SCHOOL

Mr. Newton, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Education,-

What action has his Department taken to remove the house and other buildings from the land resumed for addition to the Mt. Gravatt East State School reserve as the buildings have now been vacated by the owner?

Answer:-" A specification is at present being pre­

pared in the Department of Works to enable quotations to be invited for pur­chase of the improvements for removal."

ALLOCATION OF CoMMONWEALTH GRANT FOR ABORIGINES

Mr. Newton, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Lands,-

To where, and on what ba>is, 1s it pro­posed to allocate the $1,450,000 Common­wealth grant which was made to assist the living and educational standards of Aborigines?

Answer:-"In advising as to the amount proposed

to be made available, the Minister for Social Services and Aboriginal Affairs inti­mated that such amount was to be allocated for Housing-$800,000, Health-$325,000, and Education-$325,000. The alloca­tion will, according to the customary policy of my Government, be used to best advantage when priorities are deter­mined having regard to circumstances and needs of the various areas."

UNDERGRADUATES, UNIVERSITY OF QUEENSLAND

Mr. Ramsden, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Education,-

What is the total number of under­graduate students in each of the three categories (a) day students, (b) evening students and (c) external students, who are presently enrolled at the University of Queensland?

Answer:-"(a) 6,938; (b) 5,145; (c) 2,643: Total,

14,726."

COURSES NOT COMPLETED, UNIVERSITY OF QUEENSLAND

Mr. Ramsden, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Education,-

What was the total number of "drop­outs," i.e., persons whose studies ceased before completion of the courses for which they were enrolled at the University of Queensland for the years 1964, 1965, 1966 and 1967?

Answer:-"The University has advised that this

information is not readily available. Con­siderable investigation would be required to obtain the results for the years specified."

APPROVAL OF BUILDING DESIGNS, CITY OF BRISBANE

Mr. Ramsden, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Local Government,-

(!) Has his attention been drawn to a Press statement reported to have been made by the Lord Mayor of Brisbane that the State Government was responsible for the unattractive buildings being erected in

Questions [11 SEPTEMBER) Questions 337

Brisbane because the Government had refused the Council the right to set-back and colonnade?

(2) Can setting-back and colonnading still be insisted upon by Brisbane City Council provided that the Council is pre­pared to resume the area concerned and pay just compensation and that the only restriction, if any, placed on Brisbane City Council is the Government's insistence that fair and just compensation be paid in such cases?

Answers:­(!) "Yes."

(2) "Yes."

FEES AND CHARGES FOR ADOPTION OF CHILDREN

Mr. Dean, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Health,-

What (a) Government and/ or (b) private legal fees and/or other charges are involved in the adoption of a child in this State?

Answer:-"The Adoption of Children Regulations

prescribe that a fee of $5.00 shall be paid to the Director of Children's Services by the applicant or applicants for the making of an Adoption Order. This fee is inclusive of the cost of the Extract of Birth furnished by the Registrar-General to the Director, upon the registration of the adoption, for delivery to the adopting parent or parents. No other Government fees are involved. Applicants are required to undergo a medical examination and furnish a medical certificate in the pre­scribed form. They are also required to have a chest X-ray. The former is usually performed by the applicant's own doctor at the applicant's own expense. The X-rays are usually carried out at a chest clinic free of charge. There are odd occasions, however, where an applicant elects to visit a private practitioner to obtain this service, and, of course, in such cases a charge is incurred. It is unnecessary for an applicant for adoption to incur private legal fees as the Depart­ment of Children's Services normally attends to all formalities. However, if, as sometimes happens, an applicant does engage a solicitor to attend to require­ments, any expenses incurred must be met by the applicant. In the case of the adoption of a child born outside of Queensland, applicants are required to produce the full Birth Certificate of the child in question. If they have no such certificate in their possession, the acquisi­tion of same would involve some expense in the payment of the prescribed fee to the Registrar's Office concerned. The same would apply to Divorce Decrees and

Death Certificates, where these documents are required for sighting, to permit an adoption to proceed. Applicants are also required to meet their own expenses in travelling to the hospitaL where the infant to be placed with them for adoption, is held."

SUPERANNUATION CONTR!3UTIONS BY PUBLIC SERVANTS CALLED UP FOR

NATIONAL SERVICE

Mr. Davies for Mr. Sberrington, pursuant to notice, asked The Premier,-

( 1) How many Government officers called up for National Service have com­pleted their service and returned to duty with their former Department?

(2) How many of them were obliged to maintain contributions to the Public Service Superannuation Fund?

( 3) What amounts of arrears of con­tributions were payable by them on resumption of duty?

Answers:-( 1) "The number of employees who

have resumed duty after entry upon National Service is 124."

(2) "Sixty."

( 3) "In 3 6 instances, these National Servicemen arranged for deductions to be made from their service pay and the arrears of contributions in these cases ranged from 85 cents to $84.97. In 23 cases, no allotments were made from service pay and the arrears ranged from $9.50 to $169.52. In one case, private arrangements were made for the payment of contributions."

BEACH PROTECTION ADVISORY BOARD

Mr. Davies for Mr. Sberrington, pursuant to notice, asked The Premier,-

( 1) What organisations have been invited to submit nominations for the elec­tion of a delegate representative of the public interest on the Beach Protection Advisory Committee as provided under the Act?

(2) How many persons have been nominated, who are they and by what organisations were they nominated?

Answers:-( 1) "Section 7 of "The Beach Protec­

tion Act of 1968" sets out the member­ship of the Beach Protection Advisory Board. It does not provide for organisa­tions to submit nominations for the election of a delegate representative of the public interest on the Board."

(2) "All nominations have been made with the exception of a representative of the group of Local Authorities north

338 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

of the Shire of Noosa, and one member to be nominated by the Minister. It is expected that these nominations will be made within the next few weeks."

PROPOSED BRIGALOW NATIONAL PARK, PARISH OF SOUTHWOOD

Mr. Davies for Mr. Sherrington, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Lands,-

In view of the intense local interest in having portions 6, 7, 8, 13, 14, 15 and 16, parish of Southwood, set aside as a brigalow National Park as set out in the reports presented to him by myself on behalf of many interested persons and organisations:-

( 1) How many organisations, including Local Authorities, have indicated their support for this proposal and what are their names?

(2) How many similar organisations have expressed opposition and what are their names?

( 3) In view of his advice that the matter had been referred to the Land Agent, Dalby, for investigation, has a report been received from him?

( 4) Are any other remnants of brigalow land of comparable size and quality avail­able in South Queensland?

(5) Has opinion been made available to him from Forestry Department officers relative to the advisability of the area being declared a National Park?

( 6) When can it reasonably be expected that he will be in a position to determine the future of the area?

Answers:-( 1) "Seven organisations have indicated

their support for the proposal. They are Chinchilla Field Naturalists Club, The Wildlife Preservation Society of Queens­land, Sporting Shooters Association of Aus­tralia (Q'ld.), National Parks Association of Queensland, The Apex Club of Mean­darra, Australian Conservation Foundation and Murilla Shire Council."

(2) "No specified organisation has expressed opposition to the proposal. How­ever, four local landholders have registered a protest against ,the proposal and I am reliably informed that a petition bearing the signatures of some 80 landholders in the locality will be lodged, in support of that protest, soon. The Honourable Member for the district has expressed his opposition to the proposal."

( 3) "The Land Commissioner's report has been received."

( 4) "This is a matter which I propose to clarify in the course of my inquiries."

(5) "No."

( 6) "I will be in a position to make a decision when all the required information is to hand. For the tinformation of Honourable Members, I point out that during my several discussions on the matter with the Honourable Member for Salisbury, and again, quite recently, I informed him that no action would be taken towards making the land available for lease until such times as the whole matter had been fully investigated and considered and I am a little surprised that he has ratised this matter per medium of Parliamentary Question."

ROAD TRANSPORT FEES ON FARM EQUIPMENT

Mr. N. T. E. Hewitt, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Transport,-

Are permit fees payable on farm equip­ment unable to be carried on the railways and, if so, will consideration be given to waiving them in future?

Answer:-"Vnder "The State Transport Acts, 1960

to 1965" the Commissioner for Transport has pow'er in his discretion to reduce permit fees under certain circumstances. The Commissioner advises that any particular case which the Honourable Member has will be examined and determined promptly."

SECURITY GUARD, SUPREME COURT AND OTHER GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS

Mr. Donald, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Works,-

( 1 ) What was the strength of the security guard at the Supreme Court on the night of September 1, 1968?

(2) Would stronger security have pre­vented the extensive damage and irrepar­able loss of valuable documents and records?

( 3) Is he satisfied with the security maintained at present at the Treasury Building, the Executive Building, Parlia­ment House or any other building where important State documents and records are housed?

Answers:-( 1) "One watchman was on duty at the

Supreme Court on the night of Sunday, September 1, 1968."

(2) "I am unable to state whether or not stronger security measures would have prevented the damage and loss."

(3) "Yes."

Questions [11 SEPTEMBER] Questions 339

FIRE PROTECTION FOR MULTI-STOREY BUILDINGS, BRISBANE AND GOLD

CoAsT

(a) Mr. Hinze, pursuant to notice asked The Minister for Labour and Tourism,-

( 1) Is adequate and effective fire pro­tection afforded to those people who occupy the upper floors in the latest type multi-storey units being built on the Gold Coast and in the City of Brisbane?

(2) How many officers and men are fully qualified and trained to man the new Magirus-Deutz extension ladder and, if there are any officers and men fully quali­fied, where and when did they receive their training?

Answers:-( 1) "These are matters governed by the

By-laws of the Gold Coast City Council and the Ordinances of the Brisbane City Council, which do not come within the purview of my portfolio. The Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board and the South Coast Fire Brigade Board do not have any man­datory or legislative power in regard to them. However, I am informed that, in so far as the Gold Coast City Council is concerned, there is an arrangement between the City Council and the South Coast Fire Brigade, whereby applications for planning permits are referred with the plans to the Fire Brigade for examination and recommendation. When a building permit is subsequently issued, the recom­mendations of the Fire Brigade Board become a condition of the building permit issued by the Gold Coast City Council. In regard to the City of Brisbane, it is not incumbent upon architects or builders either to seek advice from or act upon recom­mendations given by the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board on built-in fire protection­which, it is considered, is necessary in this type of construction. However, it is known that, in many instances, this advice is sought. In regard to factories, shops, or places two or more storeys in height, in which persons are employed, the General Rule, that is Rule No. 1 under "The Factories and Shops Acts, 1960 to 1964," amongst other things, provides that these buildings shall be provided with means of escape in case of fire for the persons employed therein. It further provides that each storey shall be provided with not less than two escape exits to the satisfaction of the inspector, located remote from each other to provide means of escape to a place of safety. Furthermore, escape exits shall be so installed and arranged that all persons working in the workplace can leave immediately and in perfect safety in an emergency. Clause 19, which deals rather extensively with this matter, goes on to prescribe minimum widths of escape exits and so forth. In relation to fire-fighting equipment, it further provides that all factories, shops and places in which persons

are employed shall be provided with sufficient fire-extinguishing equipment, suitable for the special risks of the establish­ment, and to the satisfaction of the inspector, and shall be at all times main­tained in a working conditiort. I lay upon the Table of the House a photostat copy of this clause, for the information of the Honourable Member. By an administrative arrangement with the Brisbane City Council, which has existed for some years, that Council does not accept plans, unless they have noted on them that they have been examined by appropriate officers of my Department, and that they conform to the requirements of the Factories and Shops Acts. This arrangement also operates in regard to the Gold Coast City Council. The co-operation of these Councils in this matter is appreciated. Before giving any certification that the plan under examina­tion complies with the provisions of the clause 19 referred to, should there be any doubt at all as to whether the fire precau­tions taken or to be taken in new buildings are adequate, the advice of the appropriate officer of the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board is sought, and action taken in accordance with his recommendation. I acknowledge with great appreciation the ready and full co-operation given to my Department by the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board in this very important matter. In addition, expe:-t technical advice is obtained as and when considered necessary. I would stress that there is a legal obligation on occupiers of factories, shops and places covered by the Factories and Shops Acts, to ensure that sufficient and satisfactory fire-extinguishing equip­ment is provided and maintained."

(2) "I am advised that three officers and five firemen are considered to be fully quali­fied and trained to operate the ladder. About 40 men have been trained to man the ladder as a crew. The trained operators have been trained at Surfers Paradise­Broadbeach Fire Station over a period of 7 months, under the direct supervision of the Brigade's First Officer, who has been specialising in this ladder. The Chief Officer is a qualified driver and operator of turn­table ladders, having been trained in these operations during his service with the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board."

Paper.-Whereupon, Mr. Herbert laid upon the Table the paper referred to.

(b) Mr. Hinze, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Local Government,-

Is provision made in the by-laws of the Gold Coast City Council and the ordin­ances of Brisbane City Council to give adequate protection by way of fire escapes in the building by-laws of both of these Local Authority areas governing multi­storey units?

340 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

Answer:-

"The Gold Coast City Council has made by-laws and the Brisbane City Council ordinances dealing with the matter of fire protection in certain types of build­ings. The fixing of standards relating to the matter is, of course, one for the Local Authority concerned."

TOURIST INDUSTRY SEMINAR, TOWNSVILLE

Mr. Hinze, pursuant to notice asked The Minister for Labour and Touris~,-

Has he read the report in The Courier­Mail of September 10 that the president of the Surfers Paradise Chamber of Com­merce, Mrs. Peg Kirkwood, had alleged that official notification of the forthcoming tourist industry seminar had not been sent to tourism operators on the Gold Coast?

Answer:-

" I read the statement, which is entirely untrue. On April 25 last, I released a gen~~al Press statement, concerning the decisiOn to hold the Tourist Industry Seminar this year in Townsvil!e during October, the previous seminar having been held at Surfers Paradise in 1966. A copy of the Press release is tabled, for the information of the Honourable Mem­ber. I would mention here that the repre­sentation from the Gold Coast area to the 1966 seminar was 49 out of a total attendance of 213 delegates from various areas of Queensland. Of that number, the representation of accommodation owners on the Gold Coast was only 22. The announcement on the TownsviHe seminar was published in The Courier-Mail on April 29, 1968, and in the Telegraph on May 1, 1968. The statement was also given to the Country Press, and it appeared in many provincial newspapers. In the second week of July, 1968, 2,480 pre­liminary advices, including 351 to the Gold Coast, regarding the seminar were sent to various organisations and persons interested in the tourist industry in Queens­land. This refutes the allegation that the Gold Coast was ignored. Included in the distribution was one addressed to Mr. P. A. London, secretary, Surfers Paradise Chamber of Commerce, P.O. Box No. 84, Surfers Paradise. Mrs. Kirkwood is the president of that Chamber and, as the letter has not been returned unclaimed, I can only assume that the Chamber received it. In addition, on June 25, 1968, I addressed a letter to Mr. G. Schofield, of Surfers Paradise, who is the president of the Tourist Industry Council of Queens­land, informing him of the seminar and inviting that Council to nominate o~e of its members, who would be prepared to deliver an address to the seminar on its activities. As the Honourable Member is aware, I also informed the Honourable Member for Albert and himself of the decision made to hold this seminar in Townsville. An invitation was also

extended to The Honourable the Leader of the Opposition, who has advised that the Honourable Member for Townsville North will be representing him at the seminar. On July 17, Aloha Cruises, Surfers Paradise, advised that they will be represented at the seminar. On July 23, 1968, Mr. Schofield replied stating that the Council had nominated Mr. W. H. Orrock, vice-president of the Council, and the manager for Ansett-A.N.A. in Towns­ville, to deliver the address suggested. On July 23, I received advice from the chair­man of Marineland of Australia, Surfers Paradise, in which he states that Marine­land will welcome the opportunity of sending a representative to the seminar. The Chevron Hotel has also advised that it will be represented at the seminar. On August 8, 1968, I was advised by Runion Caravan and Tourist Park, Currumbin Beach, that they will not be able to be represented, as the dates coincide with the Sixth Annual Convention of the Federa­tion of Caravan and Tourist Parks, to be held at the Broadbeach Hotel. However, they thanked me for advising them of the seminar, and expressed the view that it considers the deliberations of this seminar will be of great benefit to the tourist industry as a whole. On August 16, 1968, the Shire Clerk, Albert Shire Council, Southport, stated that my letter of invi­tation had been placed before the Council at its meeting on August 15, and that its contents had been noted. The Town Clerk, Gold Coast City Council, on July 26, 1968, congratulated the initiative of the Depart­ment and myself in staging this seminar. However, the Town Clerk advised that, unfortunately, prior commitments pre­::luded the Gold Coast City Council from attending the seminar. However, the Council wished the seminar every success. Following the receipt of that letter, I per­sonally took the matter up with the Mayor of the Gold Coast, Alderman Bruce Small, stressing that, in my view, it was most desirable that the Gold Coast City Council be represented at this Tourist Industry Seminar, which, as was the case in regard to the seminar held on the Gold Coast, will deal with the tourist industry gener­ally in Queensland, and not only in regard to North Queensland. I also drew atten­tion to the fact that representatives from North and Central Queensland attended the seminar when it was held on the Gold Coast. Alderman Small subsequently wrote to me, and stated that my personal approach to him would be placed before the Council, and he would be grateful to receive any information concerning the itinerary, programme, and so forth, so that the Council might be thoroughly informed on the subject. On August 27, 1968, a tentative draft programme for the seminar was forwarded to Alderman Small, and it was stressed that the final programme was not yet complete, as advice was still awaited in relation to certain speakers. Since then, I have heard nothing further. However, I am pleased

Questions [11 SEPTEMBER] Questions 341

to learn from a report published in the Gold Coast Bulletin, dated September 10, 1968, that Alderman Small has apparently taken heed of my personal approach to him, as it is reported that the Gold Coast City Council has appointed Alderman Hilary Bloyce as its delegate, with a second delegate to be appointed at a later date. The reported statement appearing in that paper by Mr. Viv. Greer, the president of the Gold Coast Accommodation Owners' Association, that he had heard of the seminar during an informal talk with a Government tourist officer in Brisbane over a month ago, is astounding, in view of the fact that it is recorded a preliminary notice was forwarded to Mr. Greer on either July 10 or 12, 1968, addressed as fol­lows:-Mr. V. Greer, "Bel-air" Apart­ments Cavil! Avenue, Surfers Paradise, and has not been returned unclaimed. From the foregoing, it will be seen that many persons and organisations associated with the tourist industry on the Gold Coast he1ve been approached and invited to attend the Townsville seminar, and they will, in the very near future, receive full details of the programme, together with applica­tion forms for registration. Finally, I would add that there is no restriction regarding attendance at this seminar, and all oersons who are interested in attending wilf be welcome, upon payment of the requisite registration fee. Paper.-Whereupon Mr. Herbert laid upon

the Table a copy of the Press release referred to.

TEACHERS' COLLEGE, MT. GRAVATT

Mr. Bromley, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Education,-

( 1) What progress has been made in the building of the Teachers' College, Mt. Gravatt?

(2) Will it be completed and ready for the intake of trainees for the 1969 teaching period?

Answers:-( 1) "The main teaching block, the main

sports oval and the change room for physical education will be ready for occu­pation in January 1969."

(2) "The main teaching block's com­pletion will enable the opening of the College in February 1969."

NURSING EDUCATION PROGRAMMES

Mr. Bromley, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Health,-

Have students and other nurses expressed the opinion publicly that nursing education programmes in Government hospitals in this State are considered poor, especially in comparison with those of some other States? If so, why are they poor and what are the basic programme differences?

Answer:-"! am aware of various opinions expres­

sed on this matter. I again refer the Honourable Member to my reply to his Question of 27th August, 1968, in rela­tion to a Training Scheme for Student Nurses in which I advised that the Nurses Board of Queensland is responsible for recommending any changes it feels neces­sary in the training of nurses. In such reply I also advised the Honourable Member that this Board consists of repre­sentatives from the Education Department, the Royal Australian Nursing Federation and the Health Department, and that the Board is fully competent to advise and recommend on all matters of nurse training."

RoYALTIES PAID BY MoUNT IsA MINES LIMITED

Mr. Inch, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Mines,-

What was the amount of royalty received from Mount Isa Mines Ltd. for each of the years 1965, 1966, 1967 and 1968?

Answer:­"Year Ended

June 30, 1965 June 30, 1966 June 30, 1967 June 30, 1968

Amount $

231,168 1,068,990

438,793 Not yet received. Royalty return not yet due."

NEW RAILWAY BRIDGE, MOUNT lsA RAILWAY

Mr. Inch, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Transport,-

( 1) What will the new railway bridge near Nelia cost?

(2) Is its cost being met by the original contractor or is it a charge against the Railway Department?

Answers:-(!) "The estimated cost is $371,200." (2) "The cost is being charged against

the Railway Department."

SEWERAGE FOR HOUSING COMMISSION HOUSES, CAIRNS

Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Works,-

( 1) Are the Queensland Housing Com­mission homes situated at North Cairns and bounded by O'Keefe, Moffatt, Sheridan and Lake Streets designated within a gazetted sewerage area?

(2) Have any plans been drawn up and submitted for consideration, and has finance been provided for this and other Housing Commission areas in Cairns to be con­nected to sewerage mains?

342 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

Answers:-( 1) "No advice to such effect has been

received by the Housing Commission from the Cairns City Council but it is under­stood that the Council is proposing to sewer this area."

(2) "The preparation of plans and the provision of finance for sewerage reticula­tion are the responsibilities of the Council and such action would receive the full co-operation of the Commission in respect of State Rental Houses."

WATER SUPPLY, EDWARD RIVER CoMMUNITY

Mr. Davies for Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Lands,-

Further to my previous Questions on the proposed water supply and reticula­tion for Edward River community-

( 1) When will the reticulation of all homes be completed?

(2) What will be the source of supply and will it be adequate for all needs, including home gardens?

(3) Has any survey been made of future requirements and alternative supply? If so, with what result?

Answers:-( 1) "It is anticipated that all homes

will have water available by October 31, 1968."

(2) "The project involves pumping from exten~ive sand-water beds at a shallow depth fmm the surface into an elevated storage tank. The supply will be sufficient for all needs, including home gardens."

(3) "Yes. The survey showed that further sand-water beds were available from which additional water could be obtained if and when required."

RAIL TRANSPORT OF CATTLE, EINASLEIGH AND CHILLAGOE LINES

Mr. D!'vies for Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Transport,-

How many cattle have been railed from Forsayth, Einasleigh, Mt. Surprise, Mun­gana and Almaden since diesel-electric locomotives have been used exclusively on the Etheridge and Chillagoe lines?

Answer:-"Forsayth, 11,181; Einasleigh,

Mt. Surprise, 4,834; Mungana, Almaden, 684."

5,832; 9,299;

MILLSTREAM WATER CONSERVATION

SCHEME, TUMOULIN

Mr. Davies for Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Local Government,-

( 1) Has he decided on priorities for water conservation schemes in Queensland? If so, what are they and what is the approximate date for commencement of construction?

(2) If there is no priority list, will he consider the Millstream scheme at Tumoulin with a view to assisting the potato-growing industry there?

Answers:-(!) "The Irrigation and Water Supply

Commission generally in conjunction with the Department of Primary Industries has completed investigations and prepared reports on a number of water conservation schemes in Queensland. Further reports are expected to be available during the current financial year. The Government has tentatively adopted a programme of works to be carried out from State funds and in addition has requested the Commonwealth to provide funds for the implementation of other schemes. Works proposed to be carried out from State funds include the Emerald Irrigation Works and water conservation works on the Logan and Albert and Upper Brisbane Rivers, Pike Creek, Stage 2 of Leslie Dam, Pioneer River (North Eton Area) and Barambah Creek. Further development of the Mareeba-Dimbulah Scheme is being examined. In addition to the request which was granted for funds for the Maraboon Dam for the Emerald Project, the Govern­ment has requested Commonwealth funds for the Kolan and Burnett-Isis Schemes in the Bundaberg area and for the Bowen­Broken &iver Project in the Collinsville area. Apart from commencement of a dam on the Logan River Catchment in 1968-69, no firm commencement dates have been fixed for other works. These will be fixed as works under construction approach com­pletion and funds available from State and Commonwealth sources are known."

(2) "With regard to the Millstream Scheme at Tumoulin, because of other commitments the Irrigation and Water Supply Commission has not been able to complete investigations into this proposal. When these are completed and if the scheme appears feasible, it will be con­sidered for priority in conjunction with other schemes on which reports are available."

Questions [11 SEPTEMBER] Questions 343

AMENITIES IN NEW GOVERNMENT BUILDING, GEORGE STREET,

BRISBANE

Mr. Dewar, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Works,-

( 1) What area in the new Government building being erected in George Street is being set aside for amenities such as dining rooms, etc?

(2) What catering facilities, e.g. a cafeteria, are being planned?

( 3) Will the area and facilities provided for staff amenities be on a par with those provided in the Main Roads Building, Boundary Street?

Answer:-( 1 to 3) "A final determination has not

yet been made as to the floor area which could be made available for staff amenities but every endeavour will be made to ensure that reasonable facilities of this nature will be prov~ded."

UsE OF MUSGRAVE PARK AS FOOTBALL GROUND

Mr. Dewar, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Lands,-

Does Brisbane City Council propose to allow part of Musgrave Park, South Bris­bane, to be used as a football ground? If so, how does the Government reconcile the allowing of such use of this parkland with the strong stand taken some three years ago in respect of the same park?

Answer:-

"The area known as 'Musgrave Park' is vested in the Brisbane City Council upon trust under the Land Acts for Recreation purposes. No application has been received from the Brisbane City Council to lease part or the whole of 'Musgrave Park' for football purposes."

PROPOSED ROAD WORKS, CHERMSIDE

Mr. Dewar, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Mines,-

Regarding the announcement which followed my speech on the matter that plans are being prepared for the construc­tion of an adequate road system from Chermside tram terminus to the recently completed section at Webster Road corner, (a) when will work commence and (b) what is the estimated date of completion?

Answer:-

"(a) March, 1969, (b) April, 1970. The implementation of this project has been discussed with me on a number of occasions by my colleague, the Member for Aspley, the Honourable the Minister for Industrial Development, whose Electorate also is served by this road."

THALIDOMIDE BABIES

(a) Mr. Hanson, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Health,-

( 1) As the former Minister for Health, the late Dr. Noble, when replying to a Question asked by me on October 29, 1963, appertaining to thalidomide babies, stated that eleven known cases were reported .in this State and that six babies had survived, has he any additional information as to an increase in the number or has any recent information regarding the condition of sur­viving babies been made known to him or to his Department?

(2) Is the committee formed Lin March, 1963, under the Chairmanship of Professor Rendle-Short still in operation and is any therapy now offered to the unfortunate children?

Answers:-( 1) "In 1963 babies suspected of having

thalidomide deformities were examined in Brisbane by an expert committee. Of those seen, four were regarded as having definite thalidomide deformities and three were regarded as doubtful. I have been advised that one of the four babies has since died. No recent information is available about the other three but protheses have been supplied to some from the Common­wealth Limb Factory."

(2) "No, the committee formed in March, 1963, under the chairmanship of Professor Rendle-Short is not now meet­ing. I have been advised that there is no new treatment available for these unfortunate children."

(b) Mr. Hanson, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Justice,-

( 1) Has his attention been drawn to an article appearing in the Press on September 5, 1968, wherein it was stated that the Court of Appeal in New South Wales gave a unanimous decision that a Sydney girl born without arms and with defective eye­sight had a right to sue an English chemical company in that State?

(2) Have any inqumes been made through his Department as to the rights of thalidomide victims to sue in Queens­land Courts and, to his knowledge, has any action been taken ag<:linst chemical com­panies by unfortunate victims resident in Queensland?

Answers:-( 1) "I have read the article."

(2) "The law of Queensland would be the same as the law of New South Wales in this respect. I am not aware of any action being taken against certain com­panies by unfortunate victims of thalid­omide in Queensland."

344 Criminal Code Amendment Bill [ASSEMBLY) Constitution Acts, &c., Bill

OPTICAL SERVICES, MACKAY HOSPITALS BOARD

Mr. Graham, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Health,-

Why has the Mackay Hospitals Board been directed to accept the contract of Trevor Henderson, Optometrist, Brisbane, for the supply of optical services to the Mackay board as local optometrists have submitted a contract acceptable to the board?

Answer:-

'The tender submitted by Trevor Render­son was the lowest received by the Mackay Hospitals Board for optometrical services and, in view of this, the Board was advised that they should accept such tender."

MINISTERIAL EXPENSES

RETURN TO ORDER

The following paper was laid on the table:-

Return to an Order made by the House on 27 August last, on the motion of Mr. P. Wood, of expenses of Ministers for the period 1 July, 1967, to 30 June, 1968, inclusive, showing each separately and in detail.

FORM OF QUESTION

Mr. GRAHAM (Mackay) having given notice of a question-

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The question appears to be a little outside the province of the Minister. I will have a look at it.

IMPERIAL ACTS (CESSATION OF APPLICATION) BILL

INITIATION

Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen­Minister for Justice): I move-

"That the House will, at its present sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider introducing a Bill to terminate the application in Queensland of certain Imperial Acts." Motion agreed to.

CRIMINAL CODE AMENDMENT BILL

INITIATION

Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen­Minister for Justice): I move-

"That the House will, at its present sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider introducing a Bill to amend the Criminal Code to enable provision to be made for the payment of compensation to persons who suffer injury under ·certain circumstances." Motion agreed to.

RURAL FIRES ACT AMENDMENT BILL

INITIATION

Hon. V. B. SULLIV AN (Condamine­Minister for Lands): I move-

"That the House will, at its present sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider introducing a Bill to amend the Rural Fires Acts 1946 to 1964 in certain particulars ...

Motion agreed to.

CONSTITUTION ACTS AMENDMENT BILL

SECOND READING

Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah -Premier) (11.46 a.m.): I move-

"That the Bill be now read a second time."

On the introduction of this Bill I gave hen. members an outline of its contents, and I do not propose to go over the ground that I covered on that occasion. As hon. members know, it is a Bill to amend the Constitution Act Amendment Act of 1 896 and the Officials in Parliament Acts 1896 to 1965 by providing new parliamentary s::t\ary scales.

As I recollect, there was gen~nl support for the Bill, although the hon. member for Townsville South did have something to say on electorate allowances, whi~h of course are not covered by the provisions of this Bill. I did inform hon. members, however, and I repeat it, that, upon the passing of legislation to give effect to the proposed parliamentary salary increases, appropriate action will be taken by the Governor in Council to adjust electorate a!bwances on a similar basis.

Despite what the hon. member for Towns­ville South said on electorate allowances and the Done Committee of Inquiry, I suggest to him that this is not a questiorr currently before Parliament. Every opportunity was given, and taken, to debate the committee of inquiry's report in 1965, when legislation covering parliamentary salaries was under consideration. However, I have noted for future consideration the points raised by the hon. member during his speech.

As hon. members will have noticed, the Bill conforms with the method of future adjustment of salaries as outlined in the Constitution Act Amendment Act of 1965. I commend the second reading to hon. members.

Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the Opposition) (11.51 a.m.): As I indicated at the introductory stage, the Oppmition accepts the Bill because of the terms of the 1965 legislation. I said that we would look at the relevant figures to see if they were in fact as presented, although naturally, because of the investigations that would normally take place in the Public Service, we had little doubt that they were correct. We have

Constitution Acts, &c., Bill (11 SEPTEMBER] Audit Acts, &c., Bill (No. 2) 345

no reason to doubt their accuracy. In con­formity with what I said on that occasion, we now support the second-reading of the Bill.

Perhaps I should make one or two com­ments concerning reports that are being circulated about the time that it takes Bills such as this to be passed by Parliament. The public is greatly misled if there is any ~uggestion that a Bill such as this is rushed through Parliament merely because the time spent in debating it is not very long. If it was only a matter of time it would be quite easy for many hon. members to speak at length on such a matter. But the point is that we either support it or we do not. It is as simple as that. If we believe that parity of salaries should be maintained the only thing to be considered is the accuracy of the statements made which, as I have said. I have no reason to doubt. Therefore, I trust that those who report these proceedings will do so hearing in mind parliamentary procedure and debate so that they will not give to the public a story that is not factual. or one that is undesirable from the view­point of the operations of Parliament.

Mr. AHKENS (Townsville South) (11.52 a.m.): I have no intention of apologising for supporting this measure. As I have told my people-and I will tell them again­compared with the average worker, trades­man or small businessman, members of this Parliament are fairly well off, but compared with the members of every other Parliament in Australia we are in the pauper class. While it is true that we may have a basic s:.llary somew'Jat equivalent to the salaries arplying in other Parliaments of Australia. whn it comes to allowances and, shall I ~:J.y. fringe benefits, they leave us for dead. Until that anomaly is rectified and that injustice is removed, particularly the injustice that is done to those who live hundreds of miles away from the capital, we will never be able to go cut to the people and say that we think we are getting a fair deal.

At the introductory stage I referred to the difference between the total emoluments received by the hon. member for Baroona and those received by me. I have nothing against the hon. member for Baroona except that he repre,ents the smallest electorate in the State.

Mr. Hanlm,r: The smallest in size.

Mr. Al!KE~...;s: Yes, the smallest in size. I was informed the other day that he achieved what he considered to be the impos­sible in that, a ]though he lives in the centre of his electorate, he started his car to drive to Parliament House and was able to change into second gear before he got out of his electorate.

I do not intend to say anything more about this measure. I go right out to the people ami I do not even try to defend what I do: I just tej] them what the position is: I

am quite honest, frank and open with .them. However, I repeat that I would not llke to quote what happens to members from the far-flung electorates, such as Barcoo, Warrego, Gregory, Flinders, Burke, Cook, Tablelands, and so on. When we-even those of us from the big provincial cities-talk about getting a raw deal, at least we are getting a much better deal than those unfortunate f.ellows. And we are never likely to get a better deal while we have a Parliament with, I suppose, 50 of its 78 members. living either in Brisbane or within 100 miles of Brisbane. Those hon. members have every­thing handed to them on a golden platter, and they are determined to keep it that way irrespective of the political complexion of the Government.

Motion (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed to.

COMMITTEE

(The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Greenslopes, in the chair)

Clauses 1 to 7, both inclusive, as read, agreed to.

Bill reported, without amendment.

AUDIT ACTS AMENDMENT BILL (No. 2)

SECOND READING

Hon. J. .BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah -Premier) (11.57 a.m.): I move-

"That the Bill be now read a second time."

As I informed hon. members during my introductory speech, this is a Bill to adjust the salary payable to the Auditor-General by granting him an increase of $960 a year. It follows the pattern of previous legisl<;1tion.' and no new principles whatever are bemg mtro­duced.

In reply to the comments of the hon. member for Bundaberg on the introduction of the Bill I make it clear that while a formula is provided for the adjustment of. parliamen­tary salaries there IS, as I sard . o~ that occasion, no formula for the vanat10n of salaries of judges of the Supreme. Court ~nd of the District Courts or of semor officmls of the Public Service and the Auditor­General.

The salaries of higher paid officials have, for some years, been varied by specific amounts. The salaries of officials of Parlia­ment are determined under a separate award of the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Commission, but generally the increases awarded follow Public Service variations. Similarly, the salaries of Inspectors of Police are covered in a separate award and are con­sidered from time to time by the Industrial Commission following claims submitted by the Police Officers' Union. The salaries of judges are fixed by legislatiOJ?· The most recent increase for these officials was con­sidered by Parliament and took effect as from December, 1967.

346 Audit Acts, &c., Bill (No. 2) [ASSEMBLY] River Improvement, &c., Bill

It has been the practice, for some years, to review the salaries of higher paid officials, including the Auditor-General, following upon decisions given by the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Commission on the salaries of officers of the Public Service covered by the Public Service Award. This is exactly what is being done in the present Bill with the salary of the Auditor-General. The Indus­trial Conciliation and Arbitration Commission increased the salaries of officers covered by the Public Service Award as from 8 April, 1968. Following that decision the salaries of higher-paid officials not covered by the award were reviewed, and those officers were granted the same increase-namely, $960 a year-as is now proposed for the Auditor-General.

As hon. members will know,. the salaries of members of Parliament are based upon fluctuations of the average minimum weekly wage rates for adult males in Queensland as shown in the index published by the Commonwealth Bureau of Census and Statistics, and not on variations of the basic wage. All officers of the Public Service covered by the Public Service A ward receive increases in the basic wage as they occur.

Since 1953, under the provisions of the Audit Acts, basic wage adjustments have been applied to the salary of the Auditor­General as from 1 July each year in accord­ance with the amount, calculated on an annual basis, by which the male basic wage has increased or decreased during the previous 12 months. I might add that a similar provision is contained in the Rail­ways Act and the Public Service Act in respect of the Commissioner for Railways and the Public Service Commissioner.

The hon. member for Bundaberg desired to know what increases had been granted to top public servants since the last increase in Parliamentary salaries. These of course vary somewhat, although not 'to a larg~ degree, and I think that if I indicate what the increases have been for the highest-paid public servant, namely, the Co-ordinator­General of Public Works, that should be sufficient. That officer was granted salary increases as follows-

23 May, 1966 3 July, 1967 8 April, 1968

$1,058 $312 $960

Those increases total $2,330. If Parliament approves the measure now before it, the Auditor-General will have received similar increases. I have nothing further to add.

Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba_..Leader of the Opposition) (12.3 p.m.): I have nothing to add to what I said on the introduction of the Bill. As it is completely in accordance with the principle established by the Industrial Court, the Opposition supports the measure.

Motion (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed to.

COMMITTEE

(The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Greenslopes, in the chair)

Clauses 1 to 3, both inclusive, as read, agreed to.

Bill reported, without amendment.

RIVER IMPROVEMENT TRUST ACT AMENDMENT BILL

INITIATION IN COMMITTEE

(The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Greens lopes, in the chair)

Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset-Minister for Local Government and Conservation) (12.5 p.m.): I move-

"That a Bill be introduced to amend the River Improvement Trust Acts 1940 to 1965 in certain particulars."

The amendments proposed in the Bill arise as a result of requests from river improve­ment trusts and are designed to enable the trusts to carry out their objectives and opera­tions more efficiently and flexibly. The changes fall into two categories.

The first amendment creates a new section 8M, which provides that trusts be given po~er to raise temporary financial accommodatiOn by way of bank overdraft on their .cu.rrent account on application to the CommiSSiOner and with the approval of the Minister. The amount to be borrowed must not exceed the maximum fixed by the Minister. The main purpose of such overdraft accommodation is to provide bridging finance when trusts are waitina for local authority precepts to be paid. "'There is a similar provision in the Water Acts to enable water boards to obtain an overdraft.

The second amendment, which is by way of adding a subsection 4 to section 12 of the Acts, provides that a trust. shall have the power to create a plant mamtenance reserve fund and a plant renewal and purchase reserve fund, using moneys from its general fund for this purpose. This provides a means for trusts to equalise their expenditure from year to year on both plant maintenance and plant renewal and purchase. It would not only enable the trusts !O spread the c~st of expensive plant and eqmpment more eqmtably over the years, but the reserves so created could act as shock absorbers if there were unexpected breakdowns or losses that required extensive replacement.

The amendment to section 13 will bring the new heads of expenditure-that is, transfers to the reserve funds-into the budget framework, and the amendment to section 22 adds the power to make any procedural reaulations necessary in establishing, keeping, and, if necessary, closing such funds.

The amendments are designed to help trusts. Operations of these funds and accounts, when in use, are subject to examina­tion by the officers of the Auditor-General.

River Improvement, &c., Bill (11 SEPTEMBER] Water Act, &c., Bill 347

It is a very simple amending Bill, and I commend it to the Committee.

Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the Opposition) (12.8 p.m.): As the Minister has indicated, the proposed Bill does appear to be a simple one. It makes one wonder why the provisions that it is now proposed to insert in the Act were not inserted many years ago, because, once it became necessary to use heavy and quite expensive equipment, I am sure that local authorities and the trusts associated with river improvements must have found it necessary on many occasions to obtain such accommodation.

Of course, the proposed change could over­come some of the problems associated with local authorities' dispensing with the carrying out of work by day labour. One of the things that has worried people over the years has been the passing over by local authorities and trusts of much of the work that was done by them in the days of the horse-drawn vehicle and the pick and shovel. Their argument has always been that the cost of the heavy equipment required could not be carried by local authorities and trusts and that it was therefore necessary for this work to be given to contractors. The problem then arose that when, in times of drought or sectional or seasonal unemployment, Governments made money available for the carrying out of certain work, it was found that that work was not being carried out by local people and was not relieving unemployment in the areas concerned; it was let on contract to firms based in Brisbane and other large centres and they, in turn, imported their own expert personnel. In fact, although the work was carried out in the area, employment was not created for people in the area, and that was not the Government's idea in making these grants available. In my opinion, the proposed amendment will make it easier both for local authorities and for the trusts-! couple the two because they are really tied together­to use the money that is made available. C~rtainly it will be short-term money, but it wJ!l allow the local authorities to make their allocations available. The money can be used to purchase this equipment, which I trust will be used in the local employment field.

I know there are many other aspects of the matter. We do not want work stopped because of the running out of available finance. Over a long period of time we have had instances of various trusts and authorities endeavouring to carry out some project, having found that although the project was still not completed-even though It was well known that in the next budget extra money would be made available-they have had to dismiss personnel and tie up machinery because the money was not available currently.

I understand from what the Minister has said that this money could also be used for that purpose, provided of course that it was within the terms of the trust's budget and

was done with the approval of the Minister. The idea is to provide continuity of work, to allow heavy machinery to be replaced in the event of a sudden breakdown, and to permit a job to proceed smoothly without the heavy engagement of labour on the one hand and then dismissals after a short period. It will help to create work and hold labour in areas where the work has to be carried out. I am sure that the Opposition will have a good look at the Bill with the idea of sup­porting it.

Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset-Minister for Local Government and Conservation) (12.12 p.m.), in reply: Very briefly, the Bill is aimed at providing temporary accommoda­tion to carry a trust over a difficult period. A precept is imposed upon a local authority and this money comes in at a certain time. In the meantime there must be a certain amount of flexibility to allow the job to con­tinue. The idea is to give a trust bank accommodation so that it can do this.

In the other case, the plant maintenance and operation clause enables trusts to put money aside for use in the event of a break­down in machinery. It is a very simple arrangement; it is done in local government and I do not see why it should not be done by a river improvement trust.

Mr. Houston: It will help to bring about continuous work.

Mr. RICHTER: That is right. Otherwise it would be necessary to pay men off.

Mr. Houston: That is why we support it.

Motion (Mr. Richter) agreed to.

Resolution reported.

FIRST READING

Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Richter, read a first time.

WATER ACT AMENDMENT BILL

INITIATION IN COMMITTEE

(The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Greenslopes, in the chair)

Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset-Minister for Local Government and Conservation) (12.14 p.m.): I move-

"That a Bill be introduced to amend the Water Acts 1926 to 1967 in certain particulars."

The amendments cover three different aspects of a rural water board's operations, namely, sale of water, borrowing, and accounts and audit.

The first amendment is a new section, 36A, which gives boards the power to supply water in bulk and at agreed charges to other bodies, such as local authorities or statutory corporations. Under the provisions of the present Act there is a legal doubt whether a board has power to thus sell water on a continuing basis to persons or

348 Water Act [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill

bodies other than rural ratepayers. Circum­stances do arise when it is practicable and economical for a board to supply water to a shire or town council for reticulation to areas outside the constituted area. The amendment will allow this to be done.

The capacity of a water board to borrow is governed by its constituting Order in Council, which is required to show, inter alia, the cost of constructing or acquiring the works and the method of financing such cost. The cost of construction thus stated is often based on an estimate. Time and changed conditions may increase the actual cost beyond the amount authorised to be borrowed in the constituting Order in Coun­cil. To provide for this situation, where money borrowed is insufficient to complete authorised works, section 41 has been amended to provide that the Minister where he is satisfied that the inadequacy arose from circumstances outside the control of a board, may certify accordingly, and the board, on passing a special resolution, may b.or:ow the su~ . needed. This provision is Similar to provisiOns in the Local Govern­ment Acts and the River Improvement Acts.

It is pointed out that bodies even when authorised to borrow under thi~ subsection will still have to comply with procedure~ pr~scribed in sections 40, 41, 42 and 46E. Bnefiy, section 40 requires advertising the noti~e of inten~ion to borrow for 30 days; sectiOn 41 reqmres that a board must obtain Treasury sanction to negotiate and Governor­~n-Counc!l authority before actually borrow­mg; sectiOn 42 specifies that a board shall spend l~mn !flOneys only for the purposes for which It was authorised to borrow them; and, finally, section 46E covers the provisions relative to illegal borrowing.

Finally, the existing provisions in the Acts f'?r annual accounts and audit do not pro­VIde adequately or with sufficient flexibility for the needs of the number of rural water supply and drainage boards now constituted, or for the effect of disparities in size and financial transactions. These boards can vary in size and scope from one in which the capital cost of works was $13 500 to one in. which it was $400,000, and th~ annual operatwnal cost can be as low as $2 000 or less and as high as $85,000. '

The officers of the Irrigation and Water Supply Commission have consulted with officers of the Auditor-General and the Treasury on this aspect, with the result that it is proposed to repeal the existing section 46H and replace it with a new section to meet the suggestions of the Auditor­General and the Treasury. The latter depart­ment has a very special interest in the conduct of the business of these boards because of the contingent liabilities arising from guarantees given under the Local Bodies' Loans Guarantee Acts 1923 to 1957, and the fact that the Government provides by way of subsidy up to 50 per cent. of the estimated capital cost of the authorised works for each scheme approved.

As a concomitant to the amendment of section 46H, and ancillary thereto, pro­vision has been made for boards to prepare and submit budgets when required to do so by the Commissioner. This entails the amendment of existing sections 38 and 39 to indicate that these refer to the revenue fund and the introduction of new sections 39A and 39B, which provide for the sub­mission of a budget and its observance.

The amending legislation is framed to enable both large and small boards to carry out the objectives for which they were con­stituted, while providing effective means, if such are required, to ensure that those objectives are not departed from or exceeded.

I commend the Bill to the Committee.

Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the Opposition) (12.20 p.m.): Very litt.le can be said about this measure, although It has far­reachinu effects in its operation. The Bill provide~ for the bulk sale of water, whi.ch I think is quite sound. In these days, w;th the development of water storage and con­servation in rural areas, it may be desirable to sell bulk water to rural holders outside a board's area. From what the Minister has said, I cannot see any objection to this proposal. It is quite common to sell other commodities in bulk. Electricity, particularly, comes to mind. The various regional boards sell bulk electricity to one another to balance supply, and when breakdowns occur electricity is fed from one board's region to another. If we cast our minds back to the war period, when this idea was instituted, we will remem­ber that in Brisbane it was most desirable to have this interconnection, with bulk supply being transferred from one region to a!lother. As water is such an important commod1ty and is used for so many purposes, there will possibly be many occasions when it is desirable to sell it in bulk.

Turning now to estimates of cost of work to be done, it is a great pity that, owing to changing times, our cost structure has not been stabilised so that estimates approximating the actual final cost can be formulated. In some cases the difference between the estimate and the final cost is due to lack of sufficient information. At other times it results from a wish to get a job before Cabinet for approval before full and final investigations are made. From checking reports I know that some authorities have under-estimated costs, although we do not want to encourage an indiscriminate over-estimating of jobs merely to ensure that an authority gets enough money to cover the cost. That could create another problem in that the estimate for a job could be for so many hundreds of thousands of dollars by a local authority or a board and the contract could be let for a substantially smaller figure. That would make me wonder whether the person who got the contract had cut the price to such an extent that cheap labour or material would

Water Act [11 SEPTEMBER] Amendment Bill 349

have to be used or some other undesirable procedure adopted to complete the job for the contract price. On the other hand, the local authority or board may not have taken the necessary care in preparing its estimate of cost.

I take it that by this legislation the Govern­ment, through the Minister, will ensure that when estimating the cost of jobs, boards and local authorities will not use this provision to engage in careless estimating. It is most important that the budget provision should be as close as possible to the actual cost.

It is regrettable that costs escalate, but unfortunately we pass through periods when, for no apparent reason, costs of material and services continue to increase. A person goes to buy an article and finds it is a certain price today and then, because someone else or some organisation desires to increase the price, he finds that he is "loaded" with the increased price whether he likes it or not.

If this provision is put into effect, we must look closely at the estimates that are sub­mitted to the Government for approval to see the factors that go to make up the total estimated price. When further money is sought we should investigate why it is required to discover what part of the estimate was wrong. It is not good enough to look at the total estimate and the total amount required; we must analyse it carefully and find out where the procedure broke down to ensure that we are not being "taken" by whoever is doing the work and that it is not just an easy means for him to get some extra revenue.

In addition to taking these safeguards and c:'lrefully investigating the whole matter, par­ticularly when more money is required, we must be realistic enough to admit that even in the best regulated boards and ' local authorities, under-estimating will continue. I prefer that to over-estimating because of the many disadvantages that flow therefrom.

I shall not deal with the auditing aspect of the Bill. I shall wait and compare the pro­posed provisions with the existing provisions and see how they differ in application. I shall leave my comments on that matter to a later stage.

Mr. McKECHNIE (Carnarvon) (12.27 p.m.): It is obvious that water is becoming a much more valuable commodity through­out our State and that it is necessary to amend the Water Act to facilitate the dis­tribution of water in an equitable manner and the sale of water to various local authorities outside the prescribed area. Most hon. members realise that a certain area is prescribed as a benefit area under a certain local authority scheme, or a State scheme, such as our big dams throughout the State, or even a scheme constructed with Com­monwealth aid, such as the Maraboon Dam near Emerald. It is desirable to extend the distribution of water to make the best and most equitable use of it.

For instance, Warwick is not in the down­stream watershed of, nor does it have riparian rights to, Sandy Creek or the lower reaches of the Condamine River. Yet it was desirable that water from the Leslie Dam be sold to this city. Some doubt exists whether this can be done legally. This Bill will make provision for such situations. Consequently, under this Bill it is abundantly clear that water from the Leslie Dam on Sandy Creek, which is a tributary of the Condamine River, can be sold to a city like Warwick.

I anticipate that as time goes by we will have more set-ups where we will have to divert water from existing watersheds or from areas where there are riparian holders who are normally entitled to this water, and there must be this equitable sharing of the water as well as of the actual rights. As I said in my opening remarks, water is becom­ing more valuable, and we must find the means to make the best use of it. Con­sequently, this amendment gives a board the power to sell water in bulk to local authorities and other bodies and individual persons who are outside the constituted area and have no riparian rights. This is as it should be.

The Leader of the Opposition, when speaking to the previous Bill, made it abun­dantly clear that borrowing by a trust is desirable to ensure continuity of employment. If the allotment for a year should run out one or two months before the end of that year, it is only natural and desirable that these bodies should have power to borrow money to continue employment. In addition to providing continuity of employment, work will be completed in a shorter time. This will not create more employment on the present project, but it will mean that another job can be started, thereby creating extra employment. In addition, the actual cost of the job will be less than it would be if the borrowing authority was not provided. If one or two months of a financial year have to be spent awaiting an allotment for the next year, it is only natural that costs will rise because there will be certain carry-on costs of staff on the job who will not be used to the best advantage. Consequently the borrowing provision is most important.

The increase in the amount to be bor­rowed beyond the estimated cost of the job is something that has to be treated with a Jot of care. With rising costs and exten­sions of time on some jobs, it is inevitable, through no fault of those who made the original cost assessments, that at times more money is required than was originally expected and it becomes necessary to borrow extra money to complete the work. Although it is only right that there should be a provision allowing this money to be bor­rowed, it is very essential that all possible safeguards be inserted in the legislation so that there is no unnecessary spending and no encouragement given to wastefulness.

350 Water Act, &c., Bill [ASSEMBLY] Law Reform Commission Bill

It is also very desirable that this addi­tional borrowing should be under the absolute control of the Minister. I understand that for the final amount involved no matter what the prescribed figure is,' it will be necessary to obtain the approval of the Governor in Council.

The preparing and submitting of budgets should assist in eventually reducing the cost of jobs. If such budgets are properly pre­pared and vetted, they will, possibly in many cases, prevent undue or wasteful expenditure. As many local-authority projects attract a ~ovemment subsidy up to 50 per cent., 1t is a matter of protecting not only local authorities but Government funds as well. It is therefore most desirable that the provision concerning the preparation of budgets be inserted in the legislation.

It is vital that town supplies of water be obtained at a per-capita cost that is as low as possible. Whether the water be obtained from a system established directly for the benefit of the town or by diversion from another system, its cost will have a !at of influence on the water rates payable m the town concerned. It is the desire of the Government, and of everybody con­cerned, that these costs be kept as low as possible.

I therefore feel that the amendments contained in the Bill are most desirable, and I have much pleasure in supporting it.

Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset-Minister for Local Goyernment and Conservation) (12.34 p.m.). m reply: There is little to reply to. I made it perfectly clear that there are three provisions in the Bill. The first concerns the sale of water.

Mr. Houston: We heard you the first time.

_Mr. RICHTER: I should like to clarify this matter. . What is proposed has been d<?ne on qmte a few occasions, not only With the sale of water in cities and towns but with electricity undertakings and power­hous~s. There is some doubt about the !egal!ty of this, and it is desired to clear 1t up.

The se~ond ai_nendment proposed relates to borrowmg, which has been covered before. The Leader of the Opposition agreed with the proposal.

As far as accounts and audit are con­cerned, these matters will be in the hands of the Commissioner. As I mentioned some of t~e acc~unts will be very small 'and a detailed aud1t may not be required; but others are very large, and I think they should be covered. The Auditor-General is concerned· the Trea_sury_ is concerned, also, because of the subs1dy mvolved.

There does not appear to be any objection to the proposed Bill, so I do not think I need add anything further.

Motion (Mr. Richter) agreed to. Resolution reported.

FIRST READING

Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Richter, read a first time.

LAW REFORM COMMISSION BILL

INITIATION IN COMMITTEE

(The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Greenslopes, in the chair)

Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen­Minister for Justice) (12.38 p.m.): I move-

"That a Bill be introduced to constitute a law reform commission and to define its functions, powers and duties."

Our laws have been the subject of criticism from time to time in that too many of them are archaic or now of no practical value, and interested persons and bodies have, at various times, made representations to me for the implementation of some form of law reform in this State. For the benefit of hon. members, I deem it desirable to inform the Committee of the various schemes of law reform being undertaken in the United Kingdom, New Zealand, and the other States of the Commonwealth.

I shall deal first with the United Kingdom. The Law Commission Act 1965, which came into force on 15 June, 1965, provided for the establishment of an English Law Commmis­sion and a Scottish Law Commission for the purpose of promoting law reform. Each law commission consists of a chairman and four other commissioners. In point of fact, on the English Law Commission the five com­missioners consist of one judge, three Queen's Counsel, and one solicitor. Two of the Queen's Counsel and the solicitor also have experience as teachers of law in a university. The chairman of the commission is Mr. Justice Scarman, who remains a judge of the Divorce Division of the High Court. It will be seen, therefore, that the commission is drawn from all branches of the legal pro­fession. It has a legal staff of 18, four of whom are highly skilled and experienced parliamentary draftsmen.

The English Law Commission is concerned with the reform of the law other than the Jaw of Scotland or any law of Northern Ireland which the Parliament of Northern Ireland has power to amend, while the Scottish Law Commission is concerned only with the reform of the law of Scotland.

To carry out its duties under the Act, the English Law Commission will have to prepare programmes from time to time. for the examination of different branches of the law with a view to their reform.

The first programme of the English Law Commission was published in October, 1965. This programme, when approved by the Lord Chancellor, contained 17 subjects recom­mended for examination with a view to reform, 13 of them being the direct respon­sibility of the Commission. The rest are

Law Reform [11 SEPTEMBER] Commission Bill 351

wholly or partly in the care of other bodies. Some of the subjects listed in the programme are vast in range and of critical importance for the future development of English law, and consequently will take a very long time. Examples are the codification of the law of contract, codification of the law of landlord and tenant and the future development of family law.

Since 1966 New Zealand has had a Law Revision Commission, but it has not yet been established under any statutory auth­ority. It is a part-time body; its members are appointed by the Minister of Justice, and it meets under his chairmanship. The principal functions of the Commission are to map out a programme of law reform, to decide priorities, to allocate particular items to standing or ad hoc committees and to make an annual review of the progress of the work.

The Commission has 16 members, among them being a judge of the Court of Appeal, representatives of the Law Society, the heads of the four university law schools, the Solicitor-General, the Counsel to the Law Drafting Office, the permanent head of the Department of Justice, a member of the Opposition and two retired members of Parliament. The secretary is an officer of the Department of Justice.

The Minister of Justice decides what matters should be referred to the Com­mission. It is primarily a supervising and discussing body and much of the detailed work is done in the standing committees, which are also informal bodies set up by, and responsible to, the Minister for Justice.

The New South Wales Law Reform Com­mission is a permanent body which was con­stituted by the Law Reform Commission Act, 1967. At its inception the Law Reform Commission was under the chairmanship of Mr. Justice Manning, of the Supreme Court Bench, and the four remaining commissioners were barristers, solicitors, or teachers of law at a university. The Minister for Justice decides what matters would be worth-while projects for reference to the Commission for its consideration.

The Commission has been functioning since February, 1966, and its fourth report was published in November, 1967. This report is a very comprehensive one and contains a review of all Imperial Statutes then in force in New South Wales.

Although no law reform commission has been established in Victoria, there are two bodies which report to the Government on matters of law reform. The first of these is the Statute Law Revision Committee of Parliament, which consists of 12 members, six of whom are members of, and are appointed by, the Legislative Council, and the remainder are members of, and are appointed by, the Legislative Assembly. The committee is a paid committee and its functions are to examine anomalies in the

statute law, to examine proposals for the consolidation of statutes, to examine pro­posals in Bills involving technical alterations in the existing law which have been referred to the committee by either House, and to undertake the consideration of proposals for the reform of the Jaw presented by the Attorney-General to the committee.

The second committee concerned with law reform in Victoria is the Chief Justice's Law Reform Committee. This deals with rather more technical aspects of law reform and comprises representatives of the Supreme Court, the Barristers' Board, the Law Institute and the universities. The members of this 'committee are not paid.

In South Australia no law reform com­mission has been established, although a committee was recently instituted to report specifically on the reform of the criminal law.

Western Australia has not legislated for the purposes of establis!'Jing a law ref?r.m com­mission; however, m 1967 a dec!S!on _was made to establish a law reform committee consisting of representatives of the Law Society, the University Law Sch?ol and the Crown Law Department. Suggestwns for Jaw reform may be initiated by any member of the committee or by the Minister for Justice, and the committee will make recommenda­tions to the Minister as to what matters should be subject to law-reform measures. After ministerial approval of any project the committee will decide how the project will be undertaken. The committee has been given power to eo-opt members for any particular project, and this includes provision for the briefing of experts, whether lawyers or not, in particular fields.

One important function of the committee will be to co-operate with, and assist in the co-ordination of the work of, the Statute Law Revision Section of the Crown Law Department, which, during the past five years, has been revising the statute law ?f the State so that the statutes may be put m order for reprinting. That section is not con­cerned with altering the law, but only with cutting out "dead wood" from the statutes.

The Commonwealth Government does not have a law reform commission. Administra­tive arrangements provide for this work to be performed within the relevant departments.

I have given hon. members all this back­ground to convey to them some idea of what is going on in other parts of the world and in other States so that they will be better able to follow the provisions of the Bill setting up this commission in Queensland. Various mechanisms of law reform have been followed in the past in this State, but I con­sider that the time is now appropriate for consideration to be given to the implementa­tion of a Jaw reform commission.

The Bill seeks to constitute a law reform commission in this State. The commission so constituted will be a permanent body, as it

352 Law Reform [ASSEMBLY] Commission Bill

IS m the United Kingdom and in New South Wales, and will consist of not fewer than three and not more than five members. Only persons suitably qualified by the holding of judicial office or by experience as barristers or as solicitors or as teachers of law at a university may be appointed as members of the commission, for any term up to three years. Any member whose term has expired will be eligible for reappointment. Provision is made in the Bill for the appointment of acting members. Such an appointment will be made only while a permanent member is absent through illness or other causes.

The function of the commission will be to take and keep under review the Jaws of this State with a view to their systematic development and reform, including, in par­ticular--

(i) the c·odification of such law; (ii) the elimination of anomalies;

(iii) the repeal of obsolete and unneces­sary enactments;

(iv) the reduction of the number of separate enactments; and

(v) generally, the simplification and modernisation of the law.

In the pursuit of its objectives, the Bill pro­vides that the commission will receive and consider any proposals for the reform of the law that may be referred to it or otherwise come to its notice.

Mr. Hanlm1: From any source?

Dr. DELAl\fOTHE: Yes. This prOV!S!on provides a valuable opportunity for lawyers, individually and corporately, as well as for members of the general public, to lay before the commission their suggestions for reform.

The comm;%ion will operate along the lines of the English Law Commission in that it will prepare and submit a programme for the examination of particular branches of the law for the approval of the Attorney-General. The approved programme, setting out in order of priority the subjects to be examined, will be referred to the commission for the exam­ination of the particular subject matter and the formulation of its recommendations for reform.

A further duty of the commission will be the preparation, either on its own initiative or at the request of the Attorney-General, of programmes of consolidation and statute Jaw revision. If the Attomev-General approves nf such a programme t-he Com­mission will then commence its research and advise him Df its recommendations. Recom­mendations of the commission for reform consolidation or statute law revision win' upon approval by the Governor in Council: be laid before Parliament.

In addition to these duties, the commission will be required to submit a report annually to the Attomey-Cer:c· :cl as to its work during

the preceding period of 12 months, and to submit a report at such other times as may be requested by the Attorney-General.

Mr. Hanlon: Is it to report to Parliament'!

Dr. DELAMOTHE: No. The recom­mendations approved by the Governor in Council will be laid before Parliament. The others will be merely for the information of the Attorney-General.

Mr. Hanlon: Don't you think it appropriate that the report should be sub­mitted to Parliament, or that some report should be submitted, although not necessarily the one that goes to the Minister?

Dr. DELAMOTHE: No. This is an advisory committee. It will make recom­mendations. It will not for a moment take the place of the Legislature in framing laws. It will make recommendations which may, or may not, be accepted by the Attorney­General. There may be reasons why they are not accepted-there may be financial or other reasons. Any that are adopted by the Governor in Council will be laid before Parliament. In other words, they will be made public.

For the purposes of carrying out its functions under the Bill, the commission may exercise the powers of a commission under the Commissions of Inquiry Acts 1950 to 1954 in relation to holding and conducting any inquiry it considers necessary in the interests of law reform. The Bill also provides for the appointment of experts to assist the com­mission in its examination of the particular subject matter in which those persons possess specialised knowledge or experience.

I am confident that the Bill will provide this State with an expert body charged with the continuous duty of looking towards the systematic development of our law, and I have no hesitation in commending the Bill to the Committee.

Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the Opposition) (12.53 p.m.): I am sure that we all agree that a law reform commission is desirable and could be acceptable to all members of this Chamber. Whether or not the proposal before us is acceptable to the Opposition, or to all hon. members, will be nscertained only after a very careful ana!ysi.'i of the Minister's speech. At this stage I can only say to the Minister that we will allow the Bill to be introduced. Whether or not we will support all or any of its provisions will be determined only after the Bill has been fully examined.

Mr. Smith: You do not suggest that you would oppose such a commission?

Mr. HOUSTON: It depends on the com­mission. As the Minister has said, the Bill provides for the establishment of a law reform commission. I repeat that the Opposition will allow the measure to be introduced, because we believe that there is

Law Reform [11 SEPTEMBER] Commission Bill 353

plenty of evidence to show that a law reform commission could do a lot of good. But there we come to a full stop, because the Minister has said that in England and in the various States of Australia there are different interpretations of how the work should be done and of how the reform will be under­taken when the recommendations are made. I do not want to repeat everything that the Minister has said, but in England-and I think in New South Wales-there is a permanent, paid commission. In Victoria there is a parliamentary committee on the one hand--

Dr. Delamothe: They are all different.

Mr. HOUSTON: They are completely different. It is possible-! do not say this will be so-that the Opposition might prefer a different approach to it. For that reason, in reply to the interjection of the hon. member for Windsor, I do not want a wrong impression created on our approach to this matter.

Mr. Porter: It is brought on broad prin­ciples.

Mr. HOUSTON: That is why we will not oppose the Bill. Whether the way the Government wants to use it is the best way is a matter that we shall look at and debate. Let us be clearly understood on this matter. The Minister has brought this legislation down after the careful considera­tion, I imagine, of his legal advisers, and certainly of his Cabinet, and, I take it, of the rank-and-file members of his party. I have no fight with this. I go along with that principle. But, on the other hand, my colleagues and I hear about it for the first time today and I do not think that any reasonable person--

Mr. Sw.ith: Now, now!

Mr. HOUSTON: Did the hon. member for Windsor know all the details that the Minister covered?

Mr. Smith: This has been talked about. I have spoken about it for 11 years in this place, and it has been mentioned quite frequently over the years.

Mr. HOUSTON: That is quite true. But which procedure did the hon. member recom­mend? Did he recommend the English idea, the New South Wales idea, the Victorian idea--

Mr. W. D. Hewitt: He recommended the Smith idea.

Mr. HOUSTON: I am not taking anything from the hon. member for Windsor. He has advocated this, but he is not the only one who has advocated it. I in my earlier speeches, back in 1957, and other members of this Parliament, recognised that there was a good deal wrong with the wording of many of our laws. It is quite obvious

12.

that some of our laws are now outdated; they are not used and are not required to be used. I cannot see any point in cluttering up our statutes. No matter who or what the authority was, it would not require a barrister or a lawyer to tell us that those laws that are completely out of time and out of date are no longer applicable. On the other hand, we find that a person can be charged under different laws with what, to the layman, appears to be the same offence. I do not think that that is desirable either, because the action to be taken is left too much to the whim of a policeman, a Crown Prosecutor, or some other public servant. If a crime is com­mitted, the charge should be laid under one piece of law if at all possible. I realise that there are degrees of crime, and that degrees of penalty are imposed by the different courts. But to have several pieces of law virtually covering the same crime or the same situation is only to add confusion.

Mr. W. D. Hewitt: The doctrine of con­sistency.

Mr. HOUSTON: That is right. At this point of time I do not want to give examples of case·s. No doubt all of us could quote many examples of cases in the last few months in which charges were laid under more than one Act and, on the determina­tion of one of our alert gentlemen on the bench, they were heard not under one Act but under another Act. I do not think that that is desirable in our laws.

It is most important that the ordinary people in the street should know what they can and cannot do and what the laws are. It is certainly true that in some instances it i-s obvious to any upright person that certain actions are illegal and that they break either the moral code or the civil code. But there are some laws that people do not know they are breaking. They do not understand that it is against the law to do certain things. In those cases the law has to be so clear and distinct that everyone knows what it is.

Another point is the language of the law. We have had before us in this Chamber legislation on the interpretation of which we have argued and differed. The Minister concerned has finally said, "My best legal advisers tell me that that is the appropriate wording, and that that is the interpretation of it." Then, the first time it is challenged outside, renowned barristers say, "That is all wrong. That is not its meaning at all." When it comes before the court, two learned gentlemen "argue the toss" on the inter­pretation and intention of the wording of the law. Here again I say that there is much to be done along these lines.

Progress reported.

The House adjourned at 1.2 p.m.