Interviewer: Daniel Cooper

Interviewee: Emma Ballard

Date: June 28, 2002

DC: We’re in the Lucy Somerville Howorth Seminar room at the Delta State University Archives and I’m interviewing Mrs. Ballard and today is June the 28th 2002. Alright, well at first could you just tell me a little bit about where you were born and how you ended up in this area?

EB: Okay, I was born in Siden, Mississippi and that’s right outside of Greenwood.

DC: Okay.

EB: Okay, and my daddy was a farmer, he was a sharecropper in those days. And uh…then we progressed, then he raised some land, then he bought land in Drew. And that’s how I wound up in Drew. I came up there when I, we moved there when I was eleven…I think … (not audible). Okay, so I lived there for years, me and my husband and then we moved. We’ve been over here in Cleveland. Like I said, about forty years in that house I’ve had that address there. And we retired and my daddy was a farmer.

DC: So, how did you meet your husband? Was he in the area too?

EB: He was in the area, but he’s a little older than I and so I don’t usually…(laugh)…but in those days Daniel, one didn’t have to be as careful, well you need to be careful all the time. But my sister’s husband to be knew him and he saw me and said I’d like to have a date with that girl. So, it’s not like I went off with this person, so we double dated. So, that’s how I met him. And he’s a welder and machinist that’s his occupation. I didn’t work outside the home very much, his choice was that I not. Then when our son was a sophomore in high school, I decided I wanted to go back to school. My sister had gone to cosmetology school and she had bought a beauty shop. So, went there and uh…my career was short, I started having blood clots a lot in the legs so the doctor said you’ve got to give that up. And then I thought okay coming home from Memphis from the specialist tears kind of trickled down my cheeks and then I thought okay Lord, I’m a Christian, and I know all purposes he’s in charge and I said okay Lord it’s not meant for me to do that. And so, then I thought well I might have been so tired of hairdressing; it’s a tiring business that I may not have given him any time. And I’ve taught youth Sunday school, been involved in all of that. So, it’s been good. The disappointment was just for a little while.

DC: Yeah.

EB: And had one son. We had one grandson, three great grandchildren.

DC: Wow that’s great.

EB: So, we’ve extended off…(laugh).

DC: (Laugh)

EB: So, anyway, that’s… but my husband loved his work. Right now, that’s why he couldn’t come he’s working. I explained to you that our brother in law had surgery and he owns Chevron service station up the highway, you might know where that is.

DC: Yeah.

EB: So, he’s working there part time. And he does little things, and he loves to work with ironwork and things like that. So we stay real busy, we’re not bored.

DC: Yeah.

EB: So, don’t even think one that retires, and you never stop learning. Life is a see of learning and knowledge and if you use it, it’s wonderful. Don’t gather knowledge down just for knowledge sake. And that’s my servant in me.

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DC: That’s great. Well, what did your husbands parents do?

EB: They were farmers also. And he managed uh… see I’m not positive about this, I think their name was Gritman, over in Drew. And he was a overseer or, I don’t know what you call it, manager of a farm. And so therefore he would get the young men from, they were all young, as far as I know they were from the prison camp. And what they’d do, Daniel, is you’d go and sign then when it came your time then you could, you could bring then out to the fields. But like I told you, explained to you, I don’t think they were ever slave driven and it was good for them to get out. Of course, they were out in the yard all the time. The best I remember the place it had wire on it, you know, they had to have it. It wasn’t like they were shut in, in dungeons and solitary confinement all this. I didn’t see any of that, of course I was young, you know.

DC: Where did they go, the farmers, where did they go to sign in to the…?

EB: There at the camp itself. They didn’t have to, I guess to the government allowed you know that had certain, I’m sure, procedures to follow. But that’s where they go, up there and sign up for them. Of course, daddy being a small farmer, we didn’t get them very often. And of course the young men were gone off to war. And my daddy had two girls and then we called ourselves grown and my mama surprised us with a little baby brother. But the men were gone, and uh…and like I said, I think it was good for them, you know to get out. Like you see people, this is off the subject, but you see people the ones who have minor in prison, out picking up the roads, that’s good for them to get out and do that. So, with the camp you could go over and look and they’d take a picture if you’d like. It’s A.W. James elementary. That’s where it was. Right outside of Drew there. You could find out, you’d like it too, it’s a small town.

DC: How close were you to the camps?

EB: The camps? I’d say two miles.

DC: Really.

EB: My daddy’s little place, you know where the country club is there?

DC: (Not audible)…. just right outside.

EB: His land adjoined that and he sold some of his land there to…I think the tennis club, part of the country club there now.

DC: Well, what did he think about getting these Germans to work on his farm? Was he happy about it? ‘Cause these were the enemy, you know. How did he feel about that?

EB: See he had uh…you know never expressed himself well about that. See, he had brothers serving in the (not audible). And then my husband’s brother drove a tank in the war. And uh…daddy was a kind man and I thank he realized they weren’t Nazi’s, they were our enemies. We had, you know, we fought them, they fought us and they thought us but most of them, like I told you, were young men being made to go serve and I never heard inmate called a terrible remark about them or anything like that. Like I told my mama fed them watermelon.

DC: Yeah.

EB: (Laugh). And anything else and my mama feed hobos. We called them hobos, transients is a proper name now. We’d come around and she say I have no money and she would go and cook the best meals your ever saw. And I’m sure she cooked food I don’t remember but I remember the watermelon because she offered them salt and they her like leave. I guess they knew what watermelon was I really don’t know.

DC: So this was when they were working on the farm?

EB: Right, at our house. They came to the back. And of course they always had some kind of, I don’t remember the guards but I’m sure they had some guards. One sad thing that happened uh… while they were there, someone and I don’t know who it was but they were riding in a jeep with out men?

DC: In the U.S.

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EB: Yes. And they were going back at that time it was gravel, there were gravel roads.

DC: Yeah.

EB: And it flipped, the jeep flipped and one of them was killed. And so, I don’t know his name or anything but it was right up. Well, going toward town, about a half a mile where it happened. Of course, we didn’t go. But they came to the house and gave them water and all of that. And I’m sure mama gave them other things too.

DC: So, they were just hanging around the house during their breaks?

EB: During their breaks, uh huh. But of course, I’m sure they were watched.

DC: Yeah.

EB: But if they decided to go, where they going to go?

DC: Right.

EB: And I told you that, and that (not audible)…my great grandfather stayed away on a boat from Germany and came over to the USA. (Not audible)… (Laugh).

DC: (Laugh).

EB: Uh… they were clean cut looking. Most of them were blonde. It seems like I remember the blonde hair. And uh…but I’m sure they had guards around somewhere. But like I said where could they go. They would come up in the shade. Like I’m sure mom served them food. As I told you, my mom said, I remember her saying this quite well. She’d say, if I had a son old enough to serve I pray someone would be kind to my son. My mom was like that. And daddy was always kind…(not audible). He’d get mama to cook for them. So, it wasn’t only the prisoners they were good to, they were good to all the help that came to help on the farm. And my sister and I had to help ‘cause I remember we … (not audible). We rode a hay bailer; do you know what that is? It’s not like…

DC: Oh yeah, I know what it’s like… (Laugh).

EB: It’s not like the new ones. You pull behind a tractor and then something to pick up this hay. You know what hay is?

DC: Uh huh, yeah.

EB: Straw, okay. And my sister and I would ride that and I don’t know…. daddy drove it carefully. He was very careful about his farm. And you would have to wire end and it that thing would automatically shoot it tie but you had to feed the wire to tie that. And he’d be coming we would had straw all over us… (Laugh). But we had to help on the farm, there was nobody there. Mama had to help too. We all just had to help.

DC: What kind of crops did ya’ll grow?

EB: We grew cotton, corn, wheat, soybeans then, they don’t many soybeans now.

DC: Okay.

EB: I thought of one thing I didn’t share with you, I told you about James Donald Cooper’s dad having a store.

DC: Yeah.

EB: On the corner there. As you go on in…the “S” curve, it was right there. Well, as I told you, everything was rationed, everything.

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DC: Uh huh.

EB: We went barefoot a lot of the time. They didn’t have a shoe. You had coupons, and you had present that coupon to go get your shoes, sugar, coffee, everything was rationed to the … (not audible). And uh…one time daddy and he had, we had pigs. And they called it shorts; it’s a combination of grains that they feed the pigs. So, daddy went up to get some shorts to feed the pigs. When he got home he realized he had a hundred pounds of sugar and it was rationed. Oh it was like… (not audible) (laugh). Of course, daddy was always an honest man. His word was his bond. I wish it was that way now. But he took back to Mr. Cooper, (not audible). That was probably his rationed, ‘cause they were rationed see. So, he had to ration it. But I remember instance about the shorts and the pigs and it was a trying time. And my sister was really rough on shoes. And we didn’t have like … (not audible). And we didn’t have, do you know what I’m talking about when I say saddle loafers?

DC: I heard people…

EB: Here would be the white and hear would be the brown and then it laced up. Then we had what they called penny loafers. But anyway we didn’t have church shoes, or this or this shoe. We had one pair of shoes and that had to do us for school, church, everything. My sister would be growing out of hers and my daddy please you’ve to get another coupon. Or I guess that’s what you call it, I call it a coupon. That’s what you had to pay, you paid for it but you had to show that. And they’d take it and say okay you bought a pair of shoes. And so I remember him doing that for my sister. She lives here on College , Maple bird. And so we grew up together, and she, her husbands in the air force. So, they moved away a while, but she’s back now, about a mile apart. It’s good to have a sister here. And my brother is from Louisiana. He was a in blood plasma, but if you ever go up to Chevron he just got burned out. He said sissy, I am so burned out. So, he is selling shrimp. And that his little old white truck with a little tent up there and he goes to the coast and gets fresh seafood. Not just shrimp, I said shrimp because that’s what I like. Like oysters and crocodile and all that kind of stuff. So, we three get to see each other real often. My husband left in his family. He has some nephews. So, that’s about all, I mean we have extended family. But I can’t think of… (not audible).

DC: Well, how did your family communicate with the prisoners? Did some of them speak English?

EB: Uh huh. One of them had broken.

DC: Okay, so just spoke kina of through him?

EB: Uh huh…and I think, your body language?

DC: Yeah.

EB: I think most of us would go somewhere foreign, and we would know what they were saying by the look of their body language. And we could understand a lot that was going on. You would know hostility for friendship. There’s a lot of things in body language, in your voice, your eyes, the countenance on the face. But there was one of them, no no no, when my mama asked if they wanted salt. No no no no no... (Laugh). So, I guess to him it was foreign about putting salt on fruit.

DC: Yeah.

EB: Anyway, so one could interpret what we were saying, maybe perhaps more than one. I just remember the one that said no no no, he looked at mama no no no no no no. So, that’s how you communicated with them. And of course, I feel that maybe one of the guards maybe taught, I really don’t know, but I just remember that one. You know how one will stand out to you?

DC: Yeah, sticks out.

EB: He was, maybe he was the only one who could speak or understand our language. But that’s how he communicated.

DC: So, was anybody really scared of these Germans being so close and kind of working the fields? They didn’t think one of them would try to…

EB: No.

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DC: That’s what I’ve heard from a lot of people.

EB: Well, let me rephrase this. We felt no fear. No fear whatsoever. We weren’t afraid of them at all. Like I said it was just like, I realized what they were, why they were there and I realized. But like I said we had people serving in the war, it wasn’t that. But we had no fear of them. Isn’t that strange?

DC: That is. That’s kind of uh…

EB: But they didn’t give us a feeling of uh…fully observed….they didn’t give us a feeling of “I hate you” uh…you “I going to do something drastic to you” you know we didn’t have that kind of feeling. So, it was kind of a relaxed feeling if that makes any sense.

DC: Yeah, okay. Well, did you ever hear of anybody trying to escape or anything like that?

EB: Now, I did not. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but we did not. We did not.

DC: Did you ever go to the camp and just kind of look just for the novelty of it being there?

EB: No, I don’t think we would be allowed to do that. We saw it from the road.

DC: Okay.

EB: And it was…if you go over there if you want to take a picture or whatever I don’t know what’s your assignment…uh it’s not very far. It was, you know, here’s the gravel road at that time now it’s black top. But there was and you could them out milling around in the yard. They weren’t, like I said they weren’t shut up in cages.

DC: Right.

EB: I did not hear myself that any tried to escape. And like I said, where could they go?

DC: Right.

EB: Unless they had an outside prison, you know, where could they go? So, I think they felt like they were better off there.

DC: Yeah.

EB: I guess they were fed and I guess they had hopes that the war would end like we all did.

DC: Yeah. Well, how big was the camp, like an acre or a football field something like that?

EB: Yeah, yes. I think you’ve sized it up real well. Um…maybe a little bigger than a football field.

DC: Okay.

EB: I would say approximately a football…so, see it wasn’t that huge.

DC: Right.

EB: Now, had it been huge, huge they might had would to put more force. But since a smaller man, you know you can be more lenient and now I’d like to know this if you find out why they had smaller ones setup into prisons.

DC: Yeah.

EB: I’d like to know that question.

DC: I do not know….

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EB: Do you know, they do have one here; they had one at Drew and one in Merigold. Unless they though they could assign and be in better control and maybe do things better for them. I don’t really know, I’d like to know that question. Why’d didn’t they have one huge one somewhere.

DC: Right, that might just be for those reasons that you were saying.

EB: Uh hum…well you know, the fewer you have the less problem, you know that yourself.

DC: Right.

EB: Well, I don’t know that for my, but you like the overcrowded our prison camps, you know just our inmates in the United States. The more crowded and more hostel some of, it could be there or it could be they wanted to help them.

DC: Yeah.

EB: I don’t know the reason for that. But I know if you find out let me know.

DC: That might be part of it too. I’ve read some of the records and it might be so they could disperse them out over a large area

EB: Yeah, uh hum.

DC: Because they did need so much labor.

EB: Do you know how many there were? I don’t really know.

DC: I’ve read the reports and I think, this is just a guess but maybe about six or so around.

EB: Around in this area.

DC: Around the Delta

EB: The Delta.

DC: Just the Mississippi Delta. I think there might have been some in Arkansas too.

EB: Did you hear of anybody in the hilly part of Mississippi or in the Delta?

DC: I haven’t read any about the hills but I’ve just read about the Delta.

EB: Right, because there more farm, it could be.

DC: Yeah, I see exactly what you saying….

EB: I feel like there was one big place that they reported into and had to…

DC: There was.

EB: And then they decided… (not audible).

DC: I forget, I think it might have been Indianola or somewhere like that, that was the main camp and then they had five branch camps.

EB: Satellite like.

DC: Um…well I heard that some of the POW’s they would go to people’s homes and do gardening around the people’s houses and things like that? Have you ever heard anything like that?

EB: No, no, no.

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DC: Okay.

EB: The only place I heard about that, now it could have happened, I don’t know. It would be like, Parchman.

DC: Okay.

EB: They would go, they had have house men, they call them. And you would talk to anyone, are you …okay. Now there around Parchman, the people live there that work there and they would go. And I feel like this was a inmate that was not violent. They were not violent. They’d keep your yard up, come in and do your housework, do your cooking, all that. But now if the German prisoners did that… (not audible)…it could have happened, I know nothing about it.

DC: Okay…um…

EB: They did do it at Parchman, I know that… (not audible).

DC: Okay, you’ve spoken a lot about different people in your family that served in the military. Could you kind of go over that one more time? Like where certain people served and did all of them return after the war.

EB: Yes, uh…my brother…this is a little humorous but anyway. We had two brothers. One of them was in the air force and one was in the…he drove a tank, would you call that army?

DC: Yeah, I think so… (Laugh).

EB: Well, anyway. He was around, oh I think around Italy over in that part but uh. It was a sad thing. Uh…his tank was shot with a shell and exploded. And a lot of his friends burned up in there. He got out, he lost his hand, then he came back. But he never was completely whole. When I’m saying that, he was nervous. No, he functioned all right…but to tell you the truth, Dan I don’t know how I am ‘cause… (not audible) I mean psychologically sound is what I’m trying to say. When you see all of that, then his brother that was, drove mission after mission… (not audible). Then I had uncles…but let me tell you the humorous side. My husband was called up for the draft board. He had been in wreck and it did damage his ankle pretty bad. But he was called up and he was a little man. My husband was small, we are the same height when I’m wearing high heals. But it didn’t matter… (not audible) but daddy was a smaller man he went with my husband and he marched in that office and he said, “You have two of my sons, you will not take this one”. And he didn’t go. Now, it was …(not audible). Where it was, I don’t know. But I think there is some kind of rule or something, you can’t take the last son. See, he had three sons and he said you will not take this one. So, the other two did go and then I had uncles that served and they came back. We were blessed by that. But I’m sure they saw something terrible….and I’ll tell you something about my brother that drove the tank. He said little children would just line up holding their hands out and he’d give them his rations and they’d be hungry. And we’ve talked about this, this is mission work. We’ve talked about this, and I said you know Christian people that we went over there and served left a good, good heritage for us over there. They were kind to them. Now, what do you think children prisons would think said about my mama and dad?

DC: Yeah.

EB: They were kind to me. Don’t you think that, don’t you think it helps? You know? I do.

DC: Yeah definitely.

EB: So, our men went over and the ones that were Christians and treated these little children good, it left an imprint for the positive on… (not audible). I believe, it’s true.

DC: I’ve also heard there were a lot of letter writing campaigns and things like that. Did you write a lot of letters to people uh…military men that were oversees?

EB: No, I did not at the time, I did not. I wrote some but no, I was young you I was young at the time I just did not.

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DC: Yeah.

EB: I guess if my dad, my dad fit right into the, let me see. One war he was too young, the other war he was a little bit older, you know. He fit right into that area.

DC: That’s good.

EB: But no I did not, I did not. Now, the other wars I knew some young men, the other one, but not at this one you’re talking about.

DC: And with the rationing and stuff like that, I’ve heard a lot plant gardens.

EB: Oh yes.

DC: Did you’ll have gardens?

EB: Oh yes.

DC: What kind of stuff did you’ll grow in the garden?

EB: Oh, you name it we grew it. We never did go hungry. We never new a hungry day. Now, we didn’t have things that weren’t good for us. We didn’t have a lot of pop, a lot of potato chips. We had baked potatoes and stewed potatoes and candy potatoes. Are you following me?

DC: Yeah.

EB: Made us healthy, made us healthy. And my sister and I have talked about this. We, that was before the day of the deep freezer, you can’t remember this. Before air conditioning and we’d help her prepare the vegetables and she would pressure cook them, can them. Like you go to the store and buy a can, but they were jars. And you put them in, it’s like a press stove, you’ve seen those, but it’s bigger. You put the jars down in there and pressure them. My momma would do pees, butter beans, corn, potatoes, both kind of potatoes, carrots, onions, radishes, turnip greens in the fall, potatoes, watermelons. I’ve already told you about the watermelon’s… (not audible). Any kind…mama didn’t grow a lot of like broccoli, cabbage, squash any of these sort of things. But my mama never did grow that, and now I do… (Laugh). And we had cows; we’d get too attached to them.

DC: Oh… (Laugh).

EB: Now, we never had goats, we had pigs. Daddy had uh…we didn’t have a lot of horses anyway. Mules, mules ‘cause see that would help you…like the old fashioned cultivating type thing. You know, they’d have to pull it and daddy walked behind it. But back then it was mules not horses. And we had a lot of cows; we had a lot of pigs, a lot of chickens and ducks, and rabbits, things like that.

DC: Like in the rationing were any animal sales or anything like that, was that rationed at all? Or would that just be…

EB: You couldn’t get meat. Yeah, that was very much rationed. You couldn’t go and buy a steak. I mean you know, if you wanted a steak you… (not audible). It was hard on just everybody and of course the stores were, it was like I was telling you about daddy taking the sugar back to Mr. Cooper ‘cause it was hard for them to purchase that see they were rationed a certain amount. See, it wasn’t like they could get amount they wanted to either. And it was hard for them too.

DC: Where did you’ll store the food, say if you’ll slaughtered a big animal?

EB: Okay, first off Daniel, we would go around and give the whole neighborhood meat. That was the first thing we did. Every neighbor had some. And then at this time keep it. It was good. And then he would take, and that for, we called it cold storage. That’s before we had individual deep freezers in the home. And they finally put one up there in Drew called a cold storage. But daddy would salt down the size of the pork, you’ve heard of salt pork?

DC: Yeah.

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EB: Okay, and then he, we had something called a smokehouse. And you’d smoke the hams and different things like. And he never… (not audible)…daddy tried to teach me but I never learned how… (not audible)… (Laugh). And that was of course, the milk and the cheese but we had all the eggs and like back then, Dan, okay if a family had a lot of children, see it was just two of us like I said teenager until my brother came along. But you had some families that had a large number of children. But it seemed like the people that had it gave to them. It was like we share with you.

DC: Uh huh.

EB: And we didn’t know anybody around us that went hungry because everybody shared with each other. And that’s the way it’s suppose to be.

DC: Well, how did the rationing work? Like how did they distribute the stamps for families?

EB: Okay, what they would do is go…I don’t remember exactly but I’ll just share what little I can visualize and think. Daddy would go up; I don’t know where he’d go get them. I’m sure they had to have an office there. Okay, how many do you have in your family? And you’d tell them and then he’d give you a certain amount of rations for shoes, a certain amount of rations for sugar. Each one had a specific thing. And a rationed for, hardly could get coffee. And uh…there were such things as pop things like that. You couldn’t have that anyway, but anyway it wasn’t good for you. But children like you wanted some.

DC: Yeah… (Laugh).

EB: So, I’m assuming that’s the way everybody, he’d say how many you have in your family? And then you got that many rations or coupons or whatever you want to call them.

DC: Okay. And I’ve heard that some places had black outs or bomb drills or things like that. Did they have those here?

EB: Yeah, I think that’s why I wanted Jane Peacock ‘cause… (not audible)…I was asking about the questions about you and that you was working on that and if she said, I think it was she. We were talking among ourselves and somebody was talking about it, you’d have the lights gone out, I think it was she; the lights would all go out. Of course, we lived in the country and we never saw, even two miles, we couldn’t see the lights go out. They’d practice air-raid and the lights would go out.

DC: Would there be like a siren or something like that?

EB: Uh hum.

DC: Okay.

EB: Then, they would pop back on. Kind of like when we had the ice storm. I didn’t realize it could be so dark outside… (Laugh). But they’d practice, but I don’t remember exactly all about that now. I’m just telling you what I’ve heard and things like that.

DC: Well, about the POW camps did yawl know that they were going to build one did you just kind of wake up one day and they were building a POW camp there?

EB: You know, I can’t help with that. This is my, this is my theory on it, that uh…I guess the town fathers had to know it. But you know when the government tells you they are going to do something. And I don’t mean that ugly, I mean I love our country. You know what I’m trying to say here. But uh…I imagine they talked with them but we are going to put a camp up here. But they had to have the land, had to negotiate the land. So, I really don’t know about that. Um…I don’t remember daddy talking to me, I can’t remember.

DC: Do you know how long they stayed after the war was over or did they all just kind of move out at one time or did they slowly faze it out?

EB: Uh…Daniel, I can’t possibly tell you about that. It seemed like it to me they just moved them out. It’s like they were banned and they moved out.

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DC: Yeah, did they destroy the camp after or did they kind of leave it up?

EB: I think they, I can’t tell how long they left it up, but they did. They took the wires down and everything. ‘Cause of course the wires go up and then they have that roof. It was a prison camp. And uh…I’m sorry I can’t tell how long. I can’t positively tell you about it, about how long they stayed. But I feel that some of them were shipped out and some of them maybe a little bit later. And I don’t know how they chose and how. Or maybe one camp, ‘cause I wish I could tell you the population but I can’t. It might be in the, you might could get that down at Sunflower, excuse me Indianola is where the County seat is. It might be in there, the number of prisoners. It’s got to be somewhere, got to be somewhere. How many men were there and how many guards were there and all of that. But all I remember is going by seeing, looking at them you know. At first I might have felt a little uneasy, I can’t remember, when I’d pass. But then it just got, you know and I don’t know, I can’t tell you how long it was there I really can’t.

DC: Do you remember what the buildings look like, that were there?

EB: It was sort of like barracks, the best I remember. You know like service barracks, things like that. Inside, inside the wire of course.

DC: Yeah, okay.

EB: Now that’s the best I can do, some of this I can tell you, I know this... (not audible)… (Laugh)…it’s just like a little building inside the wire.

DC: Yeah. Um…let’s see. Do you know of any POW’s that might have come back to Delta after the war was over and they went back to Germany and …?

EB: And came back?

DC: Yeah, do you know of any stories like or people that might have kept in touch?

EB: You know what, no I can’t tell you but there was… (not audible). ‘Cause there is a group of five ladies and we’ve talked about this and about a German man and his wife and all. They didn’t come from that, they had already settled here. People were kind of leery of them, you know, and I can’t I with I could remember but I’ll try to find out.

DC: So, the German family was here before the war started? But people were just a little uneasy.

EB: Well, yeah. Well, just like we are kind of uneasy about the people in Afghanistan, people over here.

DC: Right.

EB: It’s sad, but we are.

DC: It’s understandable.

EB: That’s what I’m talking about. And so, and you know Dan, they rounded up the Japanese people and put them in that camp and you know it was sad. They didn’t know, you know who was going to be for them or who was going to issue them, find out secrets and it’s understandable. But I can’t remember, I’ll try to find that one out for you, if they’re still living there up around Merigold up in that way somehow, Clarksdale.

DC: Well, just speaking about just where you lived in the home front and stuff like that. What kind of social activities did yawl do growing up?

EB: Okay, mainly we played cards, no such thing as TV. A lot of our social revolved around the church. Okay, then you played cards. I want to teach you a game we called it smut.

DC: All right.

EB: Now let me tell you real quickly. Now, should I?

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DC: Oh yeah, that would be great.

EB: We played old maid, jacks, you know. You’d follow suit, and then if you say, if you and you played a card and you didn’t have one. You had to draw. The first one that went out got to smut you. Now, I’ll explain what that meant. The last one that went out got to smut and mama always had a bottles back there and have a cork, it wasn’t a cotton top it had. And we’d sit there put fire on it make it suttee, smutty you know. And just anywhere we could find. And we entertained ourselves a lot like that and playing with animals and of course that was even before electricity, power to the house. Mama had lamps and we would, I would embroidery things like, women things. Cook, my sister cooked and she said you ate up all my cookies… (not audible). But we had to depend on imagination a lot. You know, you’ve heard of making due.

DC: Uh huh.

EB: Okay, but we’d always come up with something interesting. Like one time we’d slide down a ditch bank. Oh it was too deep; oh I remember that, in a box… (not audible). Anna and I went to school, we had to walk a distance and my mama would say. Don’t you get out on that water. It wasn’t that deep and it was kind of open like. And we go out there and skate on that ice and we’d fallen through… (Laugh). But we didn’t disobey mama very often. But see children will do things like that… (not audible). But we played with friends, we’d have little school people, you know little friends, girls and boys and we played with them. We played in the mud, we made mud cakes. Sculptor out of mud, Mississippi mud. We’d make things out of it. And my mama was real artistic and she’d make us men, sculptor men and could just bake them. We had no way of knowing how to bake them. But you know, we make a lot of things, just out of the mud and get out there and play.

DC: I heard that some people had like dances and stuff like that.

EB: They did, thank you for reminding me, they did. And my grandpa played the fiddle, the violin, the same thing. And would do that, and they would square-dance. Now, that’s a lot of other, I thought you were talking about children, I should thought about older.

DC: Just any age.

EB: Okay, and the grown up would have the get together and back at that time they’d get together and harvest a man’s field together. And the women would put on a feast for them. It was a get together. Especially if a man fell down. They would all, everybody would go and do whatever is needed to do. And the women get together and cook and that was there, they’d talk and then they’d spread it out for the men. So, they had a lot things like that. Yeah, they did, they had barn dances, you know. Most of that though was family or just neighbors around, it wasn’t anything like huge.

DC: The whole or nothing like that.

EB: No, no it mainly was just, and they would like I say popcorn which seems like that’s not very interesting but to them it was. And just talk and have a good time. The men would sit out under the tree when he had… (not audible). And they loved to talk politics. Oh my goodness they’d talk about this one and that one. Not in a hostile way, agreed to disagree. They did that. But uh…I just what we called average thing but enjoyed it. And I remember, you did things and I remember some of my memories, I remember dewberries around the fence. And mama would make us a fresh dewberry pie. And then go down on daddy’s bayou, not bayou it’s a bayou. And uh…it would just be like, it would just be violets, just covered the ditch bank, you know just I’d just pick lots of violets. And that was fun. Fish, go fishing, everything… (not audible)…and we’d have rabbit. We loved rabbit. Daddy liked to do that and mama would go with him sometime. Then mama shared… (not audible)…I think they’re called cross cut saws, they’re long they’ve got a hand on each end.

DC: Yeah…

EB: She’d go pull and do one… (not audible)….that would bring us fire wood. We had a fire place and stove, like a wood stove. And she exactly when she’s cooking a cake, she did not have thermometer on that stove. She knew when to stick that piece of stove wood because stove wood is wood cut, you know, in that stove to cook that cake perfectly. Isn’t that strange?

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DC: That is.

EB: And then looked at the, then look at the sky. We didn’t have TV, we didn’t have…my daddy was the first one to have a radio in the community. But they’d watch sky and the signs. They looked at signs, like animals and things going on to know what the weather was going to do. And my mama said, my grandpa had a lot of animals. My mama’s dad was killed by, he was a logger and he was killed before she was born so, then my would be my great grandparents raised her. And uh…if the animals came up close to the house, to the barn early, something was going on. They’re not dumb.

DC: Yeah.

EB: They know something, and usually a storm would come up. And they’d know they’d come to for shelter. But just different things. You can watch, you can watch any kind of animals, you know watch them and know something’s going on.

DC: Well, did yawl ride horses much for fun or is that mainly a work kind of thing?

EB: Mainly a work…yeah…yeah. But we would, you’ll laugh at this. My mama made, now they have silk flowers. I told you my mama was real artistic and she made crape paper flowers. Now this is like crape paper you’d buy for streamers…

DC: Yeah, okay.

EB: You know what I’m talking about?

DC: Um hum.

EB: So, she’d make roses, so and that’s one thing we’d do… (laugh)…I told my sister, “You were the instigator…yeah but you followed me right along. And we squeezed out that red paper in some water and got our white Persian cat pink…. (Laugh).

DC: (Laugh).

EB: We’d dip cat in that, we didn’t hurt the cat… (laugh)…but the cat went around for months being pink, he was white. My mama scolded us about that. But…. (not audible)…I couldn’t stand slaughter time.

DC: Well, you mentioned earlier about church being a big thing in the town and everything. Did yawl have prayer services specifically for the war or when people lost loved ones what kind of things did yawl do?

EB: Um…yeah.

DC: Okay.

EB: Everybody just uh…well, like I said, you felt, you couldn’t feel their grief. You couldn’t, but you improvised with them and you just, you just felt for them. Oh yeah, we had specific prayer days and, you know different times, prayer meetings for that. Um…but we had a lot of socials in the church, you know a lot of that. When I said, well…a lot…my husband and I falls around the church. With weddings, baby’s being born. You know, that’s what I call about socials. You go to showers; you go to weddings, feel sorry if you go to funerals. You go see people that are ill; you’ll see people that are happy having a celebration. So, most of my and my husbands… (not audible), I go to First Baptist, you know. But anyway, ‘cause I’d teach Sunday school class and the ladies… (not audible)…they’ve got a lot going on. But we would, the church. Let’s say nine, you know when September, what did people do?

DC: They went to pray.

EB: They went to pray. And you don’t have to go to church to pray. You can pray wherever you want. It’s not the decision of the body, Dan it’s the decision of the heart. It’s wonderful to kneel, it’s to fine kneel, some people can’t get on their knees. Its how you feel and uh…after September it was horrible. I don’t think we’ll ever get over that. I won’t. And I don’t think…when people prayed it seems, like I said, I’m seventy-one. It seems in times of stress, anxiety… (not audible)…one can either become bitter or they can

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grow in that. It’s not that you’re trying to talk God into anything; it’s just knowing he’s there… (not audible)…knowing he cares what you’re going through. But uh…I’m sorry to say that because most of the time things… (not audible)…but its okay. That’s just natural for us to do that. But anyway, during the war people very…they pray a lot. Because a lot of people knew, had people in service. If you hear about it, and know about it you care. But when it gets home to you, you just…it’s something inside of you that’s a little more, a little bit more there, you know what I’m trying to say. But that’s okay, doesn’t mean you don’t care about other people’s problems. We did pray a lot during that time.

DC: How did communities rally around people who like lost loved ones and things like that?

EB: Oh honey, they were just uh…well, I guess you think food. I don’t know, they would just go and say we’re here. And they always carried whatever they needed. Supplies, like…or whatever it didn’t have to be food. Uh…whatever they need at the time, people did it for them.

DC: I’ve also heard uh…recycling programs and things like that. What kind of things did they have going on where you were living?

EB: Uh…well, I can’t really, I can’t really say. We just did a lot of things…let me see if I can say this right. We made use of everything, everything. So, I guess you could call that, a kind of a state of recycling. It’s not like aluminum cans and recycle them, okay. Is that what you’re talking about?

DC: Yeah, just like.

EB: Just, you used everything that you had. And then you thought of other ways to use it. So, really it’s a source of recycling. You might say, well I’m going to recycle this newspaper, you know like what we’re doing now.

DC: Right.

EB: But they used… (not audible)…but everything was used, nothing was wasted. And if like uh… my mama sewed, she likes it she’s so artistic and the straps she left over, some … (not audible)… she’d sew at night after working with daddy in the field… (not audible). And she’d make quilts, she made us doll dresses. Nothing was wasted, nothing was thrown out. If you could eat it or use it, if you couldn’t a neighbor could. Nothing wasted, we live in a throw away society. I pick up from Fifth Avenue… (not audible)…if somebody would be responsible, take the responsibility, that’s physically able to pick up right in front of their house, their block. Our town (not audible)…we do live in a clean town; you go visit some other towns. But from Harvard, our street our block is short. I always pick up the garbage and put it away so our little street stays nice and clean. But if everybody would take that responsibility, but we didn’t have a lot of throw away things, we didn’t have uh….well we didn’t have a lot of cans, we canned in jars as I told you. So, that wasn’t, you know…we didn’t have pop. We’d have a little, we’d have birthday pop, you know that was a treat. My mama had homemade ice cream, my mama always, uh…and I can’t say this about every family uh…we always had Christmas, Easter. And we always did something special. And she made it a joyful time. It wasn’t all sadness, it wasn’t all hard work. We had… (not audible)…and my dad never did drive us in the field, we worked. We knew we had to work. But uh…we had to, like I said with the hay and chop cotton we’d pick out. We’d help mama in the garden but it made us stronger. We know where it comes from.

DC: Yeah, well, how did yawl get news about the war and the events of the war?

EB: Seems like to me daddy heard it on that new radio.

DC: Really.

EB: Uh huh. ‘Cause people in the country, you didn’t uh…I think they got…have you ever heard of a grit newspaper? Usually a little newspaper came in the mail.

DC: Okay.

EB: But they didn’t have like newspapers, like people throw them. So, I think it was on that radio when we declared war. And of course, that just crushes you.

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DC: Yeah.

EB: But I think it was. The best I remember Daniel. I can’t…

DC: Yeah.

EB: Some of this I say I think, okay?

DC: Well, did other people come over and listen to yawls radio?

EB: Uh hum…uh hum.

DC: I’d heard that before.

EB: They’d come over and listen to the Grand Old Oprey. And it was a battery one; it was before we had power. Do know if you can visualize that? A battery antenna, but it was a battery one. He’d just open the house, mama and daddy would the house, they come up with friends and listen to the Grand Old Oprey… (Laugh). And other things too, daddy always liked the news. But, as far as I remember we the first ones to have a radio. Doesn’t that sound strange…? (Laugh)

DC: (Laugh). Well, how did life change after uh… after World War II ended, like was there a big celebration and things like that?

EB: But… (not audible)…like I said seventy-one years is a long time and how things have escalated and how technology has escalated.

DC: Yeah, I’ve talked to someone else had the first radio in town, had the same kind of thing happen to them.

EB: Really, really?

DC: That was neat.

EB: But to them it was wonderful to be able to hear and… (not audible).

DC: Well, do you have any other memories you’d like to share about anything like that or just specific…(not audible).

EB: Is there anything like to ask?

DC: Oh, I might have run out of questions. Well, how did life change after uh… after World War II ended, like was there a big celebration and things like that?

EB: Oh yes, oh yes. I wish it was… (not audible)…that’s pitiful. Oh yeah, everybody just celebrated. I don’t remember what all we did, but it was just uh…wonderful relief knowing that our boys would come home. I imagine. I think that prison camp stayed until the war ended. And knowing they would be going home. War is a bad, bad, bad thing as far as I’m concerned. But then you rejoice with happy and the good when they came home. And of course, things kind of settle back in and get kind of…it was a lot better, you know we were happier and things weren’t rationed. And uh…we had happier times then. But mama and daddy, this is off the subject of the war, but I had to get grown to realize this, we may not have had much during this time, but I never went to bed hungry, I always knew they loved me; I never went to bed thinking one of them would be gone. I had that security. And uh…I didn’t think about how wonderful that was until later on in my life. But uh…mama would hold on of us and daddy would hold the other and we’d sit in front of the fire in the winter time and daddy would throw coconut shells in the fire and it might beautiful fire sparks. And mama would always warm at a low fire, you don’t know what this is we called them smooth irons. No electricity it was just heat in the stove. She’d put it, wrap it around a towel and put it to our feet. Uh…it wasn’t all bad, it was good. But the parents… (not audible)…and I’m grateful to have that. But anyway, it was, and the neighbor around always got along well with them. And like I said we always helped out each other, you know, if one had something and the other didn’t, one would go and give it to them. Of course, mama and daddy only have to two children. I mean, some of them had big house full of children, and it’s very difficult for them to raise a big family during this time. But then after the war ended,

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everything picked up and it got a lot better for everybody. But during this time, okay if you can’t run around, there’s nothing wrong with wanting to go I don’t mean that, if you’re shut in with the family. You know there you are, daddy didn’t have a car until I was…let me think a minute… (not audible). I guess I was about six. The first car daddy ever bought thirty-six ford it was brand new, he thought it was wonderful…(Laugh). What I’m trying to say is, when a family is shut into, and our house is small at that time, you have to run into each other, pump into each, be with each other. It’s not like children go upstairs to your room. We were all together. So it was good. But I don’t know Daniel if I’ve helped any or not.

DC: Oh you have.

EB: I don’t know I just rattled, I don’t know if I helped about the prison camp. But you can go over there and you can see the school and that’s where it was. And I don’t how long it was…see I can’t remember.

DC: Yeah, we can’t find out something.

EB: I think so, like I said surely you could find out at the course house couldn’t you. Or the library there might have records of that.

DC: Well, before I cut this off I wanted to ask you…do you know of any other names, I know you’ve given us some but can you think of any other names you could give us of people we might could call and get in touch with?

EB: You might could call the Outlaws. Henry Outlaw. Now, that what…(not audible). Mrs. Patterson, I was telling you about Patterson. I will talk with this person, I know there’s six of us together so one of us talked about the… (not audible). And one of us talked about the lights being put out in Cleveland. See we didn’t live here then, so I can’t tell you about that. But if I think of somebody I’ll call you. I’ve got the number.

DC: Yeah that’d be great.

EB: Yeah…I don’t know… (End of Transcription).

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