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INTERVIEW WITH DAVID VANN ABOUT CREATIVE WRITING

D.D. Johnston I came to your wor th!s year" an# $or me %e&en# o$ a 'u!c!#e ( that wasthe $!rst o$ your )oo s I rea# ( was one o$ those rare" tru*y e+ce,t!ona* )oo s- one o$ those)oo s that" sort o$" chan&es the way you see th!n&s.

Da !# Vann. We**" than you.

D.D. But what I ha# no !#ea a)out unt!* to#ay was that you/# $!n!she# the )oo $ourteenyears a&o.

D.V. 0eah1

D.D. An# I can un#erstan# why ,u)*!shers wou*# )e re*uctant to ta e !t on ( cause !t/s so

unusua* an# stu$$ ( )ut I/# )e $asc!nate# to now how the )oo chan&e# $rom the or!&!na*ers!on you $!n!she# $ourteen years a&o to the ers!on !n wh!ch !t/s ,u)*!she# to#ay.

D.V. We**" not at a**1 No" that/s where I $!n!she# $ourteen years a&o an# then no)o#y wou*#,u)*!sh !t. I shou*# ha e chan&e# the t!t*e ( shou*# ha e ta en 2su!c!#e/ out the t!t*e ( an# may)ecut the stor!es" may)e 3ust ha# !t as a short no e*" an# then may)e !t wou*# ha e )een,u)*!she# )e$ore the twe* e years. But" yeah" !t/s unchan&e#4 that was the way I $!n!she# !t attwenty5n!ne( or I th!n I/# may)e 3ust turne# th!rty" !n the $a**" when I $!na**y $!n!she# the re !s!onson !t- wh!ch weren/t much6 I wrote more than ha*$ o$ 2'u wan Is*an#/ 7the 89: ,a&e no e**athat $orms the )u* o$ %e&en# o$ a 'u!c!#e ;D.D.u!c *y a$ter ten years o$ throw!n& stu$$ away. I/# )een wor !n& on !t$rom n!neteen unt!* twenty5n!ne" wr!t!n& stu$$ a)out my $ather" an# a$ter a** that t!me throw!n&

stu$$ away" !t 3ust came ery >u!c *y(

D.D. 0ou wrote that !n se enteen #ays1 That ma es me s!c 1

D.V. 0eah" I wrote a *!tt*e more than the $!rst ha*$ an# then !t was a $ew more wee s to$!n!sh the rest o$ !t" )ecause I was sa!*!n& that summer an# then )y ?a** I/# $!n!she# the re !s!onsan# !t was a** #one the way !t !s now.

D.D. Incre#!)*e.

D.V. 0eah" I 3ust cou*#n/t &et !t ,u)*!she# 7*au&hs=. It was actua**y secon# ,*ace# !n acontest )ac then. ?!rst ,*ace was ,u)*!cat!on4 secon# ,*ace was noth!n&. 'o !t a*most &ot,u)*!she# when I was th!rty.

D.D. I was a*so !ntereste# )y what you sa!# a)out how #ramat!c wr!t!n& !n$*uences your wor . 'o I won#er !$" $or our stu#ents who ha e to stu#y ,rose" ,oetry" an# #rama" )ut who aresomet!mes on*y !ntereste# !n one or two out o$ these three stran#s" I won#er !$ you cou*# saysometh!n& a)out- a)out what you see as )e!n& the a*ue o$ stu#y!n& a** the #!$$erent#!sc!,*!nes@

D.V. 0eah" I th!n !t/s essent!a* to rea# across &enres" an# to un#erstan# what a** the&enres )orrow $rom each other" )ecause !n the en# they/re a** the same !n&re#!ents4 they/re 3ust,ut to&ether #!$$erent*y. 0ou #on/t $u**y un#erstan# the !n&re#!ents unt!* you see how they/re

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em,has!se# #!$$erent*y !n the #!$$erent $orms. 'o !n #rama ( theatre ( you un#erstan# &esturean# #!a*o&ue a *ot )etter. An# you un#erstan# a more stream*!ne# #ramat!c $orm ( you rea**yun#erstan# a ,rota&on!st who !s #! !#e# !n some way" who has some ,ro)*em" an# ananta&on!st" who may)e wants the )est $or the ,rota&on!st ( who !sn/t e !* or anyth!n& ( )ut

who/s 3ust the worst ,oss!)*e ,erson $or them4 they match u, !n a way that s,ea s to whate er,ro)*em !s !ns!#e the ,rota&on!st. 'o you un#erstan# the )as!cs o$ that ( o$ what ma es con$*!ct"

how each scene ,ushes !nto an# creates the ne+t scene" an# what a scene !s. 'o I(

At th!s ,o!nt" D.D. was ha!*e# )y a stu#ent" one o$ $! e s,*en#!#*y att!re# youn& ,!rates. ?orreasons not ent!re*y c*ear ;someth!n& to #o w!th a )!rth#ay

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now the $orests an# the water" the actua* sha,e o$ the h!**s" an# what !t/s *! e when you &o $or ah! e an# *oo at the )ay( A** that/s &o!n& to $!t !nto the story" can actua**y )e ,art o$ the ,arano!#

wor*# o$ $!ct!on" rather than 3ust )e!n& !nc!#enta* )ecause !t ha,,ens to )e ,art o$ rea* *!$e. 'o Irecommen# mo !n& th!n&s. An# the same w!th characters !n stor!es ( *! e" 3ust ,*ac!n& themsomewhere e*se. 'o you ha e to #!s,*ace th!n&s enou&h so that you/re on*y us!n& the,sycho*o&!ca* an# emot!ona* core" )ut you/re actua**y ma !n& u, e eryth!n& that ha,,ens !n the

story. That/s what &! es your unconsc!ous $ree room to sur,r!se you an# to #o !nterest!n& th!n&s.

D.D. enu*t!mate >uest!on" I ,rom!se. It/s )een a &reat year $or me !n terms o$ rea#!n&"cause- I/ e rea# three )oo s that ha e rea**y" !n# o$" e+c!te# me6 I came to your wor an# theother two I/m th!n !n& o$ are Jenn!$er E&an/s A V!s!t $rom the Goon '>ua# an# ?oster Wa**ace/sThe a*e !n&. 'o I was won#er!n& !$ you/ e rea# Goon '>ua# an# a*e !n& an#" !$ so" what#!# you th!n o$ them@

D.V. 0ou now" I ho,e you #on/t ,ut that on there cause I ha en/t rea# those yet 7*au&hs=.They/re on the *!st )ut I/m )eh!n#. One th!n& a)out #o!n& $our5an#5a5ha*$ months o$ tour!n&"*!terature $est! a*s" ha*$5a5#o en )oo *aunches" an# tons o$ !nter !ews an# stu$$- An# wor !n&

on a new no e*" an# #o!n& re !s!ons $or the no e* com!n& out !n ay ( *! e" the co,y e#!t!n& an#stu$$ ( an# teach!n& ( *! e" I/m wr!t!n& *ectures an# I ha e to rea# a stu#ent )oo r!&ht now ( an#I/ e re !ewe# )oo s" an# )*ur)e# )oo s" an# so- there/s ery *!tt*e I &et to ,!c anymore" *! e$or what I/m &o!n& to rea#. But th!s w!nter I/** )e !n New Fea*an#" Decem)er throu&h A,r!*" an# I/**ha e a *ot more $ree t!me" an# those are )oth on the *!st. But !t/s a *!st o$" *! e" twenty )oo s.'orry" I $ee* *! e I/ e #!sa,,o!nte# you 7*au&hs=.

D.D. Nah ( I/** 3ust cut that )!t 7*au&hs=. O " *et me as you !nstea#" !$ you #on/t m!n#"a)out- 0ou ment!one# B*oo# er!#!an !n your ta* an# I a&ree !t/s an ama !n& wor . But I

won#er !$ you were to recommen# one )oo " someth!n& >u!te recent" that you th!n e erystu#ent shou*# rea#(

D.V. 0eah" that wou*# )e !t. B*oo# er!#!an )y Cormac cCarthy. It &oes )ac to o*#En&*!sh $or 7!nau#!)*e= hea y stresses. It concentrates content >u!te a )!t. It/s more cohes! ethan most $!ct!on !s. He &ets away w!th a h!&her *e e* o$ cohes!on" *! e you/# ha e !n ,oetrynorma**y6 re,et!t!on o$ soun#s an# !ma&e. An# !t )rea s a** the ru*es o$ what you/re su,,ose# to#o6 we #on/t &! e a sh t a)out the ma!n character4 we #on/t ha e any access to thou&hts or$ee*!n&s4 an# the who*e th!n& wor s anyway. 'o- !t/s ,retty ama !n&. I th!n e ery)o#y has torea# !t )ecause they ha e to un#erstan# that a** these ru*es that we th!n o$ $or wr!t!n& can )e)ro en !$ you ,ro !#e someth!n& e*se !n su)st!tut!on. An# so the )eaut!$u* #escr!,t!on he has" the#e,!ct!on o$ an !n$erno" has *ar&er s!&n!$!cance $or the cu*ture o$ Amer!ca an# our own hearts"an# $!**s !n $or not ha !n& a ,rota&on!st who we now or care a)out h!s $ee*!n&s or anyth!n&. 'o!t/s !nterest!n& to see someth!n& that !n# o$ )rea s a** o$ those ru*es.

D.D. An#" $!na**y" what/s your )est t!, $or u, an# com!n& wr!ters@

D.V. We**" I ha# a c*ass w!th Grace a*ey" an# she sa!# that e ery &oo# story !s at *easttwo stor!es. An# to me that/s the one un)rea a)*e ru*e !n wr!t!n& ( the on*y one. That !$ you 3ustha e an account o$ someth!n&" an# !t/s 3ust an account ( *! e !n most ,eo,*e/s 3ourna*s or )*o&sor whate er ( !t/s 3ust sh t. %! e !t w!** ne er wor . I can/t th!n o$ a s!n&*e &oo# wor e er that

was 3ust one th!n& ( that was 3ust an account o$ someth!n&. What we rea# $or as rea#ers !s thatsecon# story ( the su)te+t ( an# the !nterest o$ what story w!** come out $rom )eh!n# the otherone. An# so you can/t )rea that ru*e" as $ar as I can te**. I/ e ne er seen !t #one.

A mass! e than you to Da !# Vann $or )e!n& so &enerous w!th h!s t!me.

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?A I%0 TIE'

What a #!$$!cu*t th!n& to wr!te a)out. I $e*t the nee# to re,*y to your ,!ece as I ha ee+,er!ence# someth!n& s!m!*ar !n my own *!$e" thou&h throu&h ery #!$$erent c!rcumstances.

0ou ta* ery a$$ect!onate*y a)out the women !n your $am!*y )ut I sus,ect you $ee* someresentment to the!r *e e* o$ #e,en#ence on you. I$ I can $ee* any sym,athy $or your s!tuat!on !t !s)ecause I ha e e+,er!ence# a mother who" a*so #!sa,,o!nte# !n the amount o$ ma*e su,,ortshe rece! e#" trans$erre# those $ee*!n&s o$ emot!ona* #e,en#ency to me. When you ta* a)outyour mother ha !n& a cute or *!tt*e &!r* ,ersona !t rem!n#s me o$ the t!mes !n my re*at!onsh!,

w!th my mother where I ha e ha# to ta e on the a#u*t ro*e. When you ta* a)out how she $!n#s !t#!$$!cu*t to say &oo#)ye or #eman#s too much ,hys!ca* a$$ect!on !t rem!n#s me o$ my ownmother s !na)!*!ty to res,ect ,hys!ca* )oun#ar!es" una)*e to contro* her nee# $or su,,ort. It s notuncommon" I m sure" an# you wr!te as !$ you *o e the women !n your $am!*y ery much )ut,oss!)*y you won#er !$ th!s )eha !our" e+,er!ence# )y the other men !n your $am!*y" u*t!mate*ye+hauste# them.

I &uess the >uest!on you are as !n& !s" has the )eha !our o$ the women !n my $am!*ycontr!)ute# to the men *ea !n&@ ?!rst o$ a**" an# !t too me a&es to wor th!s out" your ro*e as ach!*# !s com,*ete*y #!$$erent $rom one as a ,artner an# you ha e ery #!$$erent res,ons!)!*!t!es.Un$ortunate*y" as you are ma*e" you seem to ha e ta en on a *ot o$ &u!*t $or the )eha !our o$your se+. 0ou shou*# remem)er that you are her son an# your e+,er!ence o$ her !s &o!n& to )ecom,*ete*y #!$$erent to the other com,*!cate# ro*es the men !n your $am!*y ha e ta en on. 0ourmother says she #oesn t want a man !n her *!$e )ut what I sus,ect she rea**y means !s that she#oesn t want a man who cant &! e her what she nee#s an# $a!r enou&h" her $ather an# herhus)an# ha e )oth )een a #!sa,,o!ntment to her an# you can un#erstan# her ret!cence !n&ett!n& !n o* e# w!th another man. Howe er" many women ha e a )a# ha)!t o$ *um,!n& a** men!n to&ether4 !t s not !ntent!ona*" 3ust easy to #o. I$ !t ma es you $ee* any )etter I m $ema*e an# I ee+,er!ence# >u!te a *ot o$ &u!*t $or not *! !n& u, to my mother s e+,ectat!ons o$ the su,,ort Ishou*# )e &! !n& her too.

As $or the re*at!onsh!, )etween your mother an# $ather... we**" I &uess you ** ne er now 5your $ather no *on&er )e!n& here to ta* a)out !t w!th you. I ha en t rea# your )oo )ut I wou*#ha ar# to &uess that !$ he acte# !n the same way to h!s ne+t w!$e !t wou*# ,ro)a)*y )e h!se+,ectat!ons o$ h!mse*$ an# h!s state o$ m!n# that *ea# h!m to *ea e !n such a way an# noth!n& to#o w!th your mother. But" as I sa!#" thats on*y a &uess.

We are a** $a**!)*e" women an# men an#" sa#*y" we are a** usua**y com,*!c!t !n creat!n& )a#re*at!onsh!,s" e en !$ !ts as s!m,*e as re$us!n& to $ace u, to the #estruct! e )eha !our o$ others.Res,ons!)!*!ty to ourse* es an# to those we *o e !s a #!$$!cu*t )a*anc!n& act an# not a*waysmutua**y com,at!)*e. We can on*y *o e the ,eo,*e we *o e" $or&! e them when we can an#u*t!mate*y un#erstan# how our own *!m!tat!ons !n what we can #o $or them. Does that answeryour >uest!on@