HWTM VIII-25 Geneen Roth 11-15-11€¦ · Welcome, Geneen Roth, to Healing with the Masters. We are so honored to have you join us tonight. Geneen: Thank you, Jennifer. I’m really,

GENEEN ROTH NOVEMBER 15, 2011

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Healing With the Masters: Volume VIII Page 2 of 24 Geneen Roth November 15, 2011 Copyright 2011, all rights reserved Jennifer McLean | Healing with the Masters | www.McLeanMasterWorks.com

Host Volume VIII | November 15, 2011 Guest

Jennifer McLean HEALINGWITHTHEMASTERS.COM Geneen Roth

Jennifer: Welcome, everyone, to Healing with the Masters. Masters, the word, means so much, but

while we may think of masters as the wonderful guests that share their knowledge and experiences with us each week, I consider you to be the master, each of you in this audience, you, the participant. No one knows you better than you, and no one is more uniquely qualified to transform your life than you. Today we will together discover the tools and techniques to heal, to continue to make a shift in your life into love and light and, in the process, truly make a difference on this beautiful planet. Together we are a powerful community. You matter. You can light up the world.

Tonight we are honored to welcome a very, very special guest with us, Geneen Roth. Geneen

is someone who has really experienced life to the fullest, and she takes her wonderful experiences and shares them with us. Her pioneering books were among the first to link compulsive eating and perpetual dieting with deeply personal and spiritual issues that go far beyond food, weight and body image. She believes that we eat the way that we live and that our relationship to food, money and love is an exact reflection of our deepest held beliefs about ourselves and the amount of joy, abundance, pain, scarcity we believe we have or are allowed to have in our lives. Rather than pushing away the crazy things we do, Geneen’s work proceeds with the conviction that our actions and beliefs make exquisite sense and that the way to transform our relationship with food is to be open, curious and kind with ourselves, instead of punishing, impatient and harsh. In the past 30 years, she has worked with hundreds of thousands of people, using meditation, inquiry and a set of seven eating guidelines that are the foundation of natural eating.

Geneen has appeared everywhere. She’s been on the Oprah Show, on 20/20, on NBC Nightly

News, The View, Good Morning America and so on. She’s written articles in all kinds of publications, including O, Cosmopolitan, Time, Elle, The New York Times, Chicago Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer. She’s written columns in Good Housekeeping Magazine, Prevention Magazine. Her newest book is Lost and Found: Unexpected Revelations About Food and Money, and her classic is When Food is Love and Women Food and God: An Unexpected Path to Almost Everything. Welcome, Geneen Roth, to Healing with the Masters. We are so honored to have you join us tonight.

Geneen: Thank you, Jennifer. I’m really, really happy to be here. Jennifer: Yeah. It’s great. I’ve been scouring through both of your books, Women Food and God, and

your new book about money. They both have incredibly unexpected revelations about who we are and how we can actually use these things, these interesting aspects of our being, to



move to a new place. I would love to hear a little bit more about kind of the spiritual aspect of what you discovered through your work with these two books and the many clients that you’ve worked with through these processes. What is the spiritual aspect about food and God and money?

Geneen: Well, let’s just start with food, and we can move on to money if you like. They’re along the

same continuum, even though they’re very different substances. I think the first thing I want to say is that I believe that the shape of your body, for instance, obeys the shape of your beliefs. So what you believe that you are allowed to have or not allowed to have, as you said in that written introduction, your beliefs about, let’s just say mashed potatoes — you see some mashed potatoes, and you want some. You’re not hungry, but you want them anyway. Everybody thinks, or most people think, or at least they used to think, when I first started, way back in the ‘70s, in the last century, that that was just a matter of willpower, or if only I make myself not eat those, or I can have a little bit of those, not as much as I want. I shouldn’t. I won’t. I’m not. I’m bad if I do.

My question here with food — and, as I said, I can answer that with money — what’s going on

with you right in that moment when you want more mashed potatoes? Do you feel like you can’t have what you really, really want? You can’t have the love you want. You can’t have the spaciousness you want. You can’t have the connection you want. You can’t have the freedom you want. You can’t have the job you want. You can’t have the whatever you want, and so since you can’t have what you really want — and then there are a whole lot of beliefs around that — I’m not supposed to. I’m not allowed to. I’m selfish. I’m overwhelming. My hunger is bottomless. I’m too much. I need too much. If I really was myself, no one would love me. All of that is right there in that decision to take more mashed potatoes than your body really wants and than you actually want but that you’ll take because you don’t believe you can have what you actually want. So the next question that I would ask somebody — and I’m sort of doing the laser version of this right now.

Jennifer: Thank you. This is great. Geneen: Okay, well, tell me what you really want, and tell me what you believe about yourself. Do you

believe that you’re somebody that needs to deprive yourself or shame yourself? Do you believe if you let yourself loose in a house that has cookies in it you would devour all of them, you would make your way — as I often say to my students, you’d start chomping away in your kitchen and make your way clear across the United States and not stop? Do you believe that what you want is impossible? Have you given up on yourself? Where have you given up? Because all the places that you’ve given up that are not tangible show up in something like your relationship with food, and that itself is a spiritual question. What do you want? Who do you take yourself to be? How are you using food to make up for the places in your life you’ve actually given up?

Jennifer: How do you use food to replace what you’ve given up? Geneen: Yes. No, to make up for. So if I don’t feel like I can have — let’s say that I don’t deserve — I

feel about myself that I’m a bad person, and for a long time, this is what I believed about myself. I was bad. I was doomed. I was selfish. If somebody really took away the surface niceness, what they would find is somebody I believed was fundamentally bad, sort of


damaged at the core. If I walk around with that belief, that something’s wrong with me or that I don’t deserve to have what I really want or that it’s not possible, then what I’ll do is try to get what at least I can get. What’s there to get? In this case, well, mashed potatoes taste good. Ice cream tastes good. Binging is an instant way to give yourself what some good — some sweetness. I mean, food doesn’t go away. It doesn’t talk back. It doesn’t get drunk. It doesn’t abuse you. It’s always there. It’s relatively cheap, and it can be very sweet and very satisfying. Well, here’s a way I can get what I want instantly when I’ve given up on the less tangible things that I really want or given up, really, on aspects of myself.

Jennifer: So there we are, having this moment of, okay, I’m about to do that. I’m about to eat that.

What can we do in the middle of that pain? Because that’s what it feels like you’re talking about, that it’s pain. You gave me this beautiful list of quotes. “The resistance to pain is worse than the pain itself.” So what do we do in the middle of that moment?

Geneen: Yes. So it’s important to backtrack for a second and realize that most of us have very scary

stories we tell ourselves about what would happen if we let ourselves feel what we actually feel. That’s the first thing, and most of us don’t even realize we’re living our lives according to those stories. What one of my teachers said to me is, “We live our lives according to a set of instructions given to us 10 or 20 or 40 or 50 years ago by people we wouldn’t ask for street directions from today.”

Jennifer: Wow. Ain’t that the truth? Geneen: Ain’t that the truth? Now, what are some of those instructions? Some of those instructions

might be you don’t deserve to have what you want. You are overwhelming. You are too needy. If you start, you’ll never stop. You’re too sensitive. You’re too much. You’re a failure. You’re not smart enough, or you’re dumb. There are lists of what I call instructions. Another way to say that is beliefs, and a belief is a thought you’ve thunk a couple of hundred thousand times.

Jennifer: A thought you thunk. Geneen: A thought you thunk, and it turns into a belief. Then you take it as true. Who am I? I’m

overwhelming. I’m too needy. I’m too sensitive. I’m too much. I’m too dumb to start my own business, or I will never get what I want, because I don’t deserve it. So we have these beliefs about ourselves, and one of the beliefs we have is about what would happen if we actually let ourselves feel a feeling. The list of those beliefs can go something like this: I’d never get off the bed. If I let myself feel how sad I actually was, I’d start crying, and I’d never stop. If I actually let myself feel my anger, I’d be so enraged, I might murder somebody. I’d tear the house apart. I’d never get to the bank. I would be mean to my children.

I mean, we have lists of beliefs that we are living our lives according to, and we never question

that. What my approach and how I work with people is, I say, “Look, we’re going to have a different orientation here. Rather than trying to get rid of what you feel, even the desire to binge in that moment, let’s actually welcome it. Let’s assume that you are exquisitely smart and wise and you’re doing what you’re doing for very good reasons. Let’s assume that. So let’s just find out what they are. Now, one of them might be I feel bored and I don’t know what to do with my time, and so eating is a good go‐between.” My question would be, “Well,


what’s it like to feel bored? Have you ever let yourself actually feel bored?” Then my next question is, “Where do you feel that? How do you know it’s boredom?”

So I’ve become very, very interested in beliefs and assumptions that people have about

themselves, about their relationship with food, about feelings, because I would say 99.9 percent of the time, those beliefs are not true. Because we don’t question them, we don’t know that, and when you begin to actually become curious with yourself and kind to yourself, tender with yourself — I tell my students, “Lavish kindness on yourself. If you were so kind to yourself right now, if your intention was to be exquisitely kind to yourself, what would that look like?” Now, eating when you’re not hungry and not stopping when you’ve had enough is not being exquisitely kind to yourself. It’s not.

Jennifer: Right, and at some point in time, we thought that it was. Geneen: That’s right. We started eating compulsively, and by compulsive eating, I mean eating when

you’re not hungry and not stopping when you’ve had enough. We started doing that because that was a fabulous choice. That seemed like our only choice. If we started doing it, for instance, as kids — and some people start as kids, but some people don’t. That’s when I started doing it. I remember doing it when I was 11. I probably started before. I’ve had a lot of people say to me, “I started the second I came out of the womb.” So a lot of people have these ideas that they’ve always been eating compulsively, which is eating when you’re not hungry and not stopping when your body has had enough.

Body and mind are different here. Your mind can never have enough. Your body gets to

enough if you pay attention to it. Stuffing yourself isn’t a kind thing to do. It was a way to survive in situations where we felt like we didn’t have choices, and often, what people do is that they use food and their bodyweight to speak for them in ways that they don’t feel capable or allowed to speak for themselves. So my bodyweight, for instance, could say, “Keep away. Go away. Don’t come close.” I could use my body to say no. I could use my body as a way to keep relationships out, because I might feel so unattractive at a particular weight that I won’t even be thinking about it, and if I’m scared of intimacy, if I’m scared of being close, then look what happens. Rather than being interested and in seeing what’s going on with that fear of intimacy, I’m using my bodyweight to say, “Keep out. Stay away. I feel ugly.” That doesn’t necessarily mean anything about whether I am, obviously, or not. I’m not talking about any kind of objective standard here. I’m talking about how we feel. And so we can use our weight and our relationship with food to speak for us.

What I really want people to do is take back that power. Take back the power you’ve given to

food and to your weight. Take it back, because it’s yours anyway. If you are using your weight to say, “No, keep out. Go away,” it’s you who’s saying that. So take it back, because you can find more direct ways to say that and be in a body that’s at a comfortable, natural weight, without making yourself doubly miserable.

I want to circle back to that original question you asked me, which was about, well, if I’m in

pain — let’s say I’m sad or I’m hurting in some way, and I turn to food. Yes, you might do that, but what happens when you do that is that you’ve now doubled your pain instead of halved it, because although food might taste good for the first three bites or five bites that you’ve eaten it, by the time you’re done with that, you are now still in pain about what you were in pain


about originally, and now you’re in pain about what you’ve just done with food. Most often you’ll feel shame. So you’ve just doubled your pain, and you haven’t taken any of it away.

Jennifer: A lot of what you’re talking about is generally an unconscious moment, is it not? It’s what

you’ve been saying, that someone overlaid some kind of belief onto us, or a thought that became a belief, as you said, and here we are all these years later, still playing out that same belief.

Geneen: Yes. Jennifer: So it feels like you’re also saying, though, that there’s power within that moment. There’s

power within that moment of decision, that moment when you’re about to reach for something that is going to double your pain.

Geneen: Yes. There is huge power. Well, there’s power, really, in unwinding the relationship with food

if it’s painful for you, because you can find yourself. What I say is that your relationship with food, and also money, but we’re concentrating on food, is a doorway. You can use it as a doorway. Most people, with their relationship with food, it’s not a doorway. It’s just something they feel like they have to change and the sooner the better. They want to wake up thin tomorrow. They want to wake up at their natural weight, sometimes at their ideal weight, and a lot of people would give anything to do that.

I mean, when I was going up and down the scales, zinging up and down the scales by ten

pounds every week — and in my lifetime, I’ve gained and lost more than 1,000 pounds, so I was both very overweight and also, at one point, for a year and a half, anorexic. Most of the years that I spent compulsively eating were spent overweight, but that one year and a half I was not. I was underweight. I weighed 82 pounds, because I starved myself on 150 calories a day and still thought I was fat, still looked in the mirror — because what I say is, when you look at the world through shattered lenses, the world looks shattered. It doesn’t matter — I’ve worked with people who are a size two, size four, size six, all the way up to a size, I think, 60. Unless they felt good and centered in themselves, some sense of knowing who they were, it didn’t matter what they weighed.

Somebody said to me once, “I would die to be as thin as I was five years ago when I would

have died to have been thinner.” Yeah. So the question is — so when she was thinner, she didn’t think she was thin.

Jennifer: That’s right. Geneen: So how was she seeing herself? How was she looking at herself? That’s what I want to

encourage people to do, to reorient themselves and to use their relationship with food, which is something they think is an albatross and something they believe is terribly wrong about them and about which they feel terrible shame. This is how it was for me. I used my relationship with food as a doorway to parts of myself that I had never been in touch with, ecstatic parts of myself, by going through the process that I’m talking about here, by following a set of eating guidelines, which I talk about, seven eating guidelines, which are so intuitive that four‐year‐olds follow them before they’ve been sort of inundated and hypnotized and entranced in the world of sugar. Four‐year‐olds eat when they’re hungry, eat what their


bodies want, pay attention to the food. I mean, if you look at a three‐ or four‐year‐old eating a saltine cracker, it will take them a half an hour, one saltine cracker. They are utterly, completely into what they’re — it’s fascinating, and they’re tasting it. So they’re paying attention to their food. They’re eating what they want. They’re stopping when their bodies have had enough. They’re eating with a lot of joy and pleasure.

Most people who are obsessed with food — food is only pleasurable for three bites. So four‐

year‐olds follow these eating guidelines. Another eating guideline is eat with the intention of being in full view of other people, which means not sneaking. I was a big sneaker, and a lot of people I’ve worked with really sneak and lie and steal and pretend around food. Why? Because they believe, like I believed — and this is another example of the doorway I’m talking about into your central self. When you sneak, it’s because you believe, “If they saw me, they wouldn’t love me. Who I am cannot be seen. Who I am is not lovable.”

Jennifer: It’s interesting. I was a vegetarian for six and a half years, and I started craving meat and

hamburgers. I would sneak hamburgers, and one day I kind of caught myself in a window eating a hamburger. I had this look of sneakiness. I said, “What the hell are you doing? Who exactly are you sneaking this from?”

Geneen: Yes. The big mother in the sky, I call it. Jennifer: The first guideline that you shared was — I wrote down eat like a four‐year‐old, but there was

something more to that. Geneen: I think maybe I’ll make that a new guideline. Eat like a four‐year‐old, before she’s been

entranced by sugar. I want to say a caveat about these guidelines, because guidelines can easily turn into rules for many people, and if you just follow these guidelines, you will lose weight, absolutely, but if you follow them because what you want to do is lose weight, they will become like a diet. As everybody knows — and I say that this is the fourth law of the universe — for every diet there is an equal and opposite binge.

Jennifer: Is that really the fourth law of the whole universe, Geneen? Geneen: It is. Newton, he meant to say that, but he died before he actually said that. Jennifer: Well, he disbursed way too much water in that bathtub, and that was it. Geneen: I think that must have been it. So these eating guidelines, people have called them rules.

They’ve called them Geneen’s rules, and what happens is that when you turn things into rules around food, you end up rebelling against them, like people do with diets. The intent of these guidelines is to get you back in touch with what you knew when you were two, three and four years old.

Jennifer: Natural rhythm. Geneen: That’s right, that your body gets hungry and that your body has enough. Now, many people

will say to me, “There’s never enough. There’s never enough. What’s enough?” Enough is when I’m so full that when I roll over my stomach stays on the other side of the bed. That’s


what enough is. There’s that sense of overstuffed, but that’s not enough. Your body tells you you’ve had enough.

I have an eating scale that I work with people on. It’s one to ten. One is really hungry. Five is

comfortable. Ten is stuffed. If you’re at four or below, you’re hungry. Five or above, you’re not. The hardest places to tell on that eating scale are four, five and six, because when you’re really hungry, you know, and when you’re really full, you know. But until you start truly, truly listening to yourself and being willing to pay attention to what you’re eating — that means eating at least — so here’s going to be something that I’m going to say that people are going to make into a rule, but I’m going to say it anyway, because usually we eat in front of the TV, on our computer, doing email. I mean, there are many, many things that we do — on our Facebook page. We’re just sitting there, and we’re eating a sandwich, but you don’t have that much attention. It’s sort of like paying attention if you invite a friend over for a visit and she walks in the door and you get on the phone. If you’re on the phone the entire time and then she has to turn around and leave, you’re not going to notice that your friend was there, and you’re going to feel that it wasn’t very satisfying. That visit wasn’t satisfying because guess what.

Jennifer: That’s a great analogy. So there you are. You haven’t paid attention, so you’ve lost track. Geneen: You’ve lost track. You don’t know when you’ve had enough. Enough happens very, very

quickly, and enough can be very surprising. I do eating meditations a lot with people, and there was a man that I did an eating meditation with. In all of my workshops I do eating meditations, and we do an eating meditation usually with a piece of chocolate — three pieces of food that are portable, transportable. I’ll never forget this man saying to me — and it was with a Hershey’s Kiss. This is a while ago. I’ve substituted now Dove Dark Chocolate Promises for Hershey’s Kisses, but this was when I was doing Hershey’s Kisses. He said, “I’ve eaten bags and bags of these, but I’ve never eaten one of these.” Then he said, “And one actually is enough, and I never would have believed that before today.”

Jennifer: One is enough. Geneen: One piece of chocolate is enough. Now, if you’re really hungry, one string bean is not going to

be enough. One bite of whatever it is that you’re having for a main meal is not going to be enough, but you’re not going to know what enough is unless you’re actually paying attention, and that’s one of the eating guidelines. Eat without distraction. So there’s those seven eating guidelines. I’ll say them again. Eat when you’re hungry. Eat sitting down in a calm environment; this does not include the car. Eat without distractions. Eat until your body has had enough. Eat with the intention of being in full view of other people. That means not sneaking. It does not mean, if you live alone, go out on the street and start dragging in people to watch you eat. It just means eat as if somebody’s watching.

Jennifer: Geneen told me. Geneen: But it does mean, if somebody walks in the door, you’re not going to hide. So it’s eat what

your body wants. Eat till you’re satisfied, which means enough. Eat with the intention of being in full view of others, and eat with enjoyment, gusto and pleasure.


Jennifer: Enjoyment, gusto and pleasure. What does that look like? Geneen: That looks like a four‐year‐old. Let’s go back to our four‐year‐old again. That just looks like I’m

tasting the food. I’m loving it. I’m loving it. Most of us who use food for reasons other than hunger, as I said before, don’t either taste the food or love the food, because we’re using it to stuff down our anger. We’re using it to stuff down our sadness. We’re using it to distract ourselves. We’re using it to numb ourselves. We’re using it in the middle of the night when we don’t know what to do, when we walk home, get home from work and we don’t know what to do. So these eating guidelines are the physical, hands‐on, concrete part of breaking free from the obsession with food.

Just as important is the part that I was talking about before, which is developing a kind, curious

and accepting relationship with yourself, assuming that what you do, you do for good reasons, and so you’re going to be curious about what those reasons are, asking yourself, being willing to just believe in yourself enough to stop trashing yourself, because most people try, when they lose weight — first of all, when they look in the mirror, they don’t like what they see, so they’re feeding themselves, all day long, negative messages about their body. My thighs are too fat. My arms giggle. I have enough cellulite to fill the Grand Canyon, whatever you want to say. I’ve heard people say horrible things about themselves, and those are messages that you’re giving to yourself all day long.

So then you say, “Okay, well, I can’t stop eating. Therefore I have to deprive and force

myself.” One of my first fundamental principles is that change does not happen by force, deprivation, guilt, fear, punishment or shame, because if you try to lose weight — and many of us have, for weddings and events and for this or that. We try to lose weight by forcing and depriving and shaming ourselves, and then what happens is that we end up a forced, deprived and ashamed human being who might also be thin for ten minutes, because any change that’s based on shame and deprivation does not last, which is the reason why diets don’t last. When they’re built on shame and force and deprivation, when they’re built on this conviction that, if I actually let myself eat what I wanted to eat, I’d be the size of the Rocky Mountain — when you lose weight because that’s what you’re telling yourself, the weight never stays off.

Jennifer: Yeah. It’s interesting. These guidelines — it feels like you’re actually creating space, that

you’re actually creating a space, through these guidelines, to then start getting to that feeling stuff.

Geneen: Yes, right. Sometimes, and this is what I’ve found, sometimes people have a hard time getting

to the guidelines until they’ve started being kind to themselves in other ways. People hear the guidelines, and they say, “Oh, easy. I can do this.”

Jennifer: I can do that. Geneen: “That’s not hard. If a three‐ or a four‐year‐old can do it, I can certainly do it.” But the problem

is that — let’s just take one guideline. Eat when you’re hungry. So you say to yourself, “Okay, I’m going to eat when I’m hungry every time this week,” and then here comes a time when you want to eat when you’re not hungry. What do you do? Well, unless you have a way and unless you’ve decided that you are now going to be joyous, you’re going to assume that you want to eat for a really good reason — you’re not going to keep telling yourself you’re crazy,


you don’t have willpower, if you let yourself have and eat what you want, you’d never stop. You’re not going to tell that to yourself. You’re going to be curious with yourself. What’s going on? Five minutes ago I didn’t want to eat when I wasn’t hungry. What happened?

Jennifer: So there we are in that moment. We’re in that moment of okay, I’m going to follow the

guidelines, and the first guideline comes along, and we’re running for the hills. Geneen: We’re running for the hills, and so what might come up at that moment, if you’re willing — I’m

going to back up for a second and say that to do this — and I think this is probably true for everybody who’s listening. To do this, you have to really want to change. If all you want is to lose weight, there are a lot easier ways to lose weight.

Jennifer: There’s a lot easier ways to lose weight. Geneen: Yeah. People think that being thin will make us happy. We think that. We’re positive. Every

time I teach, I say to the people in the room, “How many of you believe that being thin will make us happy?” People are convinced of that, and I’m saying this because I was talking about really wanting to change and that people who are listening to this are probably already there. The reason I’m saying this is because some people just say, “Following these eating guidelines and being curious about my feelings — who wants to feel this? Let me just take the weight off, because I’ll be happy when I do.”

The problem there is that being thin does not bestow happiness on people. If that were true,

every single person in the entire world would be happy. What happiness is, is having a different kind of relationship with yourself and using your relationship with food as a doorway to that.

Jennifer: I see. So using your relationship with food as a doorway — Geneen: As a doorway to a different kind of relationship with yourself, which would be that if — to use

your example, okay, I want to eat. We’re following the first eating guideline, eat when you’re hungry. We’re following that, and suddenly I’m feeling sad, or I don’t know what I’m feeling. I just want to eat. That would be the moment where you ask yourself, “Okay, what’s going on? What’s happening? Do I want to find out?” So I think it’s important, and it’s not really so hard to find out. Sometimes I’ll take people through a process with binging where I’ll say, “What was going on? You just were sort of skipping through your day, and then suddenly you had to eat. What was going on? What happened in the 10 minutes or 15 minutes or half an hour before that?” Somebody usually said something. Somebody did something. You felt something that you didn’t believe you could work through or you didn’t feel was tolerable, and usually it’s not that big of a thing. But most of us, as I said before, don’t really know how to be with our feelings. We think they’ll just rip us apart.

Jennifer: So a trigger shows up. Geneen: Yeah. Jennifer: And then we ignore the trigger and just move right into the filling the void, I guess.


Geneen: Yeah. That’s what we do, fill the void, as if there was something terrible about a void. Jennifer: Hey, now, there’s an interesting thought. What’s so bad about the void? Geneen: I know. What’s terrible about it? Sometimes somebody will say to me, “Well, I’m eating

because I feel so empty.” I’ll say, “Well, tell me where that emptiness is.” “It’s in my chest.” Then I will say, “Tell me about that emptiness. I know you’re calling it emptiness. What does it feel like exactly?” We’ll go into where is it, does it have any kind of color or shape, and sometimes somebody will say, “Wow. I was feeling empty, and I thought I needed to avoid it, but really what it feels like is like a starry sky is in my chest. That’s not so terrible.”

Jennifer: So it’s interesting, because we spend so much time avoiding that place. Geneen: That’s right. Jennifer: Where it sounds like, if we actually allow ourselves to go to that place, to go to that place of

even pain or suffering, that there’s some resolution there. There’s something more, way more than what we thought was possible.

Geneen: Every time there is but — Jennifer: Is that another law of the universe, every time? Geneen: You know what? I don't know anybody who can go back in time and ask Newton in the

bathtub. Could you just sort of ask him? We’ll find out. Jennifer: No I don’t, dang it. Geneen: Well, what you’ll find — just a couple of weeks ago, I was working with somebody who was

feeling furious, and she was so scared of her anger — and most of us are. We’re scared of it, but what we’re scared of is acting it out. We’re scared of taking it out on somebody. Of course many of us would like to take it out on somebody, but really, when we sort of are true to ourselves and we ask ourselves what’s scary, why won’t I let myself feel my own anger, what comes up is I don’t know what will come out of my mouth. I’m scared of how I will act. But I’m not talking about acting it out. Right now I’m not talking about anything but letting yourself feel what you feel instead of taking it away from yourself the second you feel it.

When this person — this woman and I were together. When she started letting herself feel

her anger, not act it out but just feel what it felt like, she started feeling this sense of enormity, really big and really powerful and separate. She didn’t feel like she was dependent on the person she was angry at anymore. She felt like she had herself. When we cut our feelings off, we cut ourselves off. We don’t have any way in. How do you become authentic? How do you become true to yourself if you don’t even let yourself feel what you’re feeling?

Jennifer: Yeah, and this notion that you talked about a little earlier, about be curious, be curious with

yourself and then, on top of the curiosity, being gentle and kind and loving. The other, I think, point of distinction that you’ve been making here too is that gentle, kind and loving may look one way when we are in a place of noticing. It’s like you said; stuffing yourself is not kind.


Geneen: That’s right. Jennifer: Some of us may not know that just yet. Geneen: Right, and I think that’s the mistake I made for the first 20 years I was teaching this, is that

people heard me, and they took it as license to binge. Jennifer: That’s really important. I can see that. Geneen: Yes. “Okay, Geneen says I don’t have to go on a diet. Therefore —” Jennifer: Ergo. Geneen: Ergo, right. “Ergo I will binge.” The eating guideline, eat what you want, well, people translate

that into eat whatever I want whenever I want whenever I feel like it. Jennifer: We do this translation back to where we started from because something happened. There’s

something in our conscious. There’s something that occurred in childhood. There’s a thought that created a belief, and a belief created this behavior. Is that the idea?

Geneen: Yes. Jennifer: So here we are. We’re noticing. We’re now curious. Here we are. I’m curious, and I’m

following the guidelines. What’s going to start happening? What’s going to start showing up, and how do I lose weight from that?

Geneen: Well, the way you lose weight is by eating when you’re hungry and stopping when your body

has had enough and eating foods that your body wants. That’s how you lose weight. What keeps people from doing that are all the beliefs they have about what they can and cannot feel and what they do and do not deserve. That’s what keeps people from that.

Jennifer: The fundamentals that you’re talking here — it’s really cool, because you’re talking about

weight. You’re talking about food, but I know that this applies across the board. The same principles apply. So let’s just switch for a minute to money, because I know you’ve written a book recently about money as well, that also talks about some of these concepts. Can we do the same thing with money? I mean, we can spend in front of people? I’m kidding but —

Geneen: Well, the concept with money — now, money is even more taboo than food to talk about. Jennifer: Yes, it is. Geneen: Because if we think we don’t know what we believe really about ourselves — here’s how you

can find out what you believe about yourself. Pay attention to the things — when you first wake up in the morning, after you get out of that sort of hazy, half‐sleep, half‐awake space, start paying attention to the things you tell yourself. “Oh, I’m so tired. I can never get enough sleep. My life is overwhelming. I will never be able to get this done. I don't know why I told my boss that. I’m such an idiot.” You can hear what you believe just if you start paying


attention to the things running through your mind about yourself every day. You will see a display of belief that will shock you. Shock you. I’m sure there are a lot of people listening, who are part of the community who have worked a lot with this, so worked a lot with their beliefs, but unless you have, then the beliefs that you have about yourself will be, in large part, negative. And you will act according to your belief.

So a feeling can actually trigger a belief. A belief can trigger a feeling, which can then trigger a

belief, and it ends up in action. We are always walking, living transmitters of what we believe. So as I say in Women Food and God, if you want to know what you really believe, look at the food on your plate. No matter how wise or enlightened you think you are, how you eat tells all, because you’re acting out, because we are always, in every moment — when you go to the bank, when you go to the gas station, when you’re with your friends, when you’re with your partners, when you’re with your kids, you are acting out your beliefs, what you really believe to be true, all the time, in every interaction you have and in every relationship you have.

Jennifer: You have some really interesting beliefs about money. Geneen: Oh, yeah. This is where the two tie together, because we don’t have that much time to go into

the long, sorry story, my long, sorry story about money, but what I did believe, which is what I also believed about food — and I would say I believed that about love for a very long time — is the same thing I believed about money. I was insatiable. I couldn’t get enough. I lived with a catastrophe is imminent frame. I lived waiting for the other shoe to drop. So I had to, as I call it, store for the hunger to come. I had to just prepare and prepare and prepare. So I was a hoarder with food, not with things or with clothes but with food, and with money, there wasn’t any kind of sense of what was enough money. What was enough?

I think what I saw, when we lost every single penny we had, what I saw was that it wasn’t just

about money. I saw that I was ghost walking through my entire life, that I was not paying attention to the daily things, excuse me for being a little corny here, but the daily wonders or the daily magnificence I had in my life already, what I had enough of all the time. Because I was only paying attention to what I didn’t have, not what I did have, to what I could someday get, maybe, if I was lucky, in the same way that I always thought I was never thin enough. No matter what, I was never thin enough. When I was 82 pounds, I wasn’t thin enough, because I didn’t feel like I was enough, and I didn’t know how to be in touch with what was enough. It felt ridiculously corny.

When I was, I think, 23, I had a magnet on my refrigerator saying, “I am enough.” So there was

some part of me that knew that there was as deficiency there, in terms of my own belief, but I didn’t know how to be in this moment, how to just show up in this very present moment here now, feel it, sense it, be alive to it and see the abundance that’s already here.

Jennifer: It’s interesting, because we hear many, many speakers. That is it. Geneen: Yes, it is. Jennifer: I mean, that’s it, and it’s so simple. It’s not necessarily easy to implement.


Geneen: No. In one way, it isn’t, and in another way, it is. For instance, if I said to you right now, “Just here, right now, tell me five things that you have enough of in your life,” you would be able to.

Jennifer: Absolutely. Geneen: But we don’t ask ourselves those questions. Jennifer: There you go. So we get up in the morning, and we get to, first of all, notice our beliefs are

showing up. Geneen: Yes. This is really about mindfulness and awareness and attention I’m talking about, because

none of this is hard. None of it is hard. The second you realize you are entranced into following instructions given to you by people you wouldn’t ask street directions from today, you are no longer following instruction. The second you realize that you are operating from not enough, then that changes. You can then say to yourself, “What’s enough,” because anybody listening to this can list five things, right here, right now, that you have enough of. But we don’t, because we’re not paying attention to that. So it’s about shifting the attention and realizing that, right now, we are utterly immersed and identified with our stories that are not true. We are ricocheting around in old stories. We are frozen in the past or telling ourselves catastrophic stories about the future, but we’re not here.

Here, right now, right here, there is enough for everybody who’s part of this community.

There’s enough, and the doorway — anything can be a doorway into that. I mean, I make it my practice now. Since we lost our money, it became a practice to — the only way I could actually get out of the terror that I was in, because I was in abject terror. Thirty years of my lifesavings and my husband’s lifesavings gone, and he wasn’t around. I couldn’t talk to him. I was by myself, and the only way I pulled myself out was by focusing in this moment on what I had enough of. I realized how little time I did that in my entire life, even though I lived a privileged life, as do we all.

Jennifer: It’s interesting. I always think that one of the moments of positivity in my life is when I look at

those moments of what could be abject terror, what could be devastation, and instead I focus my attention, just as you did in that moment, on possibility, on what you have. That is the framework that then creates the next, is it not?

Geneen: Yes, it is. It absolutely is, and that’s the very same thing. See, food is the doorway there too,

because just like that man said, “I’ve eaten bags of these, but I’ve never eaten one of these.” The translation of that is, “I’ve never allowed myself to taste it, to be here with it, because I’m always focused on the next one and the next one and the next one. I’m always thinking, when I eat one, that one isn’t going to be enough, and so I need the whole bag.”

So we can use anything to bring ourselves to this place, and what I’ve done in my life is use

food and work with people using their relationship with food. Now it’s money, because, as I said, anything is a doorway. If you believe you don’t have enough, it shows up everywhere with a bite in your mouth.

Jennifer: You use it. I mean, you use that moment. You’re using all of it, aren’t you?


Geneen: Yes. Jennifer: You’re using the moment of hesitation where it seems like willpower but it’s something

different. You’re using that moment of curiosity. You’re using that moment of kindness to yourself. You’re using all of it.

Geneen: Yes, you are, and what you are doing, most especially, is developing a different orientation, a

different relationship with yourself and your life, with what it means to be alive, because what you’re doing is saying, “Here I am on this Earth. Here I am, and I’m eating this food right now. I could just shove the food in my mouth. I could be going on and on about the stories and about my thighs and about my arms and about my face and the wrinkles and this and that, or I could be, if I choose, because it’s available to you in every single moment — I could use this food, this bite, this thing I’m telling myself to become stunningly alive. Right here, right now, here I am. It’s accessible. It’s available. It’s for me. I’m allowed to have this much happiness, this much glorious abundance, because it’s all around me. I’m just not letting myself have it. So I’m going to use this to let myself have it.

Jennifer: Amen, sister. Geneen: I know. It’s fabulous. It’s fabulous. Jennifer: It is. Geneen: I mean, I just am passionate. I am so passionate about this, because I see person after person

getting their lives back. One person said to me recently, “I came to something with you.” Her life felt like just a mess, and she said, “I looked at you, and I said, ‘I want what she’s got.’” And she said to me, “And now I have it.” That’s everybody’s birthright.

Jennifer: Yes, indeed. It is indeed. So we have this fun little contest that we do on all of our shows. We

give away $250 cash, and we have the phrase that pays. Tonight’s phrase that pays is become curious, kind and tender to yourself. That’s tonight’s phrase that pays. In order to enter, you go to:

healingwiththemasters.com/contest It’s such a beautiful message, a lovely call, obviously a very open heart and passionate nature

that you’re bringing to this. We thank you so much for joining us. If you folks are interested in hearing more of this and actually working with Geneen, if this is calling you, then this is your chance. This is your chance to really address this piece of the puzzle. I think it’s pretty cool that we have Geneen on, talking about a very specific subject, and it is within the realm of spirituality, but it is a very palpable and visceral subject for many of us. If this is something that you’re ready to really play with, that you’re ready to notice, pay attention and be kind with yourself in a whole new way, then her special offer is something you’re going to want to check out. I’m going to give the URL first, and then we’ll talk about it. It’s:

specials.healingwiththemasters.com/geneen Or, if you go to:


womenfoodandgod.com/hwtm That will also work. They have put together a beautiful special offer for you. I love this. It’s

called an online retreat with Geneen Roth, and it just feels like that’s what it is. The energy of that feels like it’s really a retreat‐oriented moment for you. You go at your pace. You can transform your relationship with food and your body in new ways you never thought possible. You can work with this remarkable woman who has been on every show and magazine you can imagine, and this is your chance to work directly with Geneen. It’s called the Women Food and God Self‐Guided Online Retreat. Can you tell us a little bit more about what they can expect from this program, Geneen?

Geneen: Yes, I can. I love this retreat. It’s an hour and a half. There are eight hour‐and‐a‐half sessions,

and amazing things can happen in an hour and a half. During each of the sessions, I talk about things like the guidelines. I talk about how you can actually learn to be with yourself. I talk about something we really didn’t have time to talk about tonight, which is the voice, which is what I called in Women Food and God, the voice that keeps you from being with your feelings, the voice that criticizes and judges and shames you. So there’s a whole session on the voice and how you can recognize it and disengage from it and really, really feel a sense of mastery about it and not listening to it. I talk about meditation, inquiry, every piece of the program that I’ve developed over the last 30‐plus years that I felt was important in working with and transforming the relationship with food. It’s part of this online retreat.

What you do is, you listen to it for the hour and a half. I think you can download it too, so you

have it forever. You listen to it, and then there’s practice that I give at the end of every session, that I recommend that you do, which of course you could choose to do or not do, practices that have to do with eating and a practice that is a non‐eating practice about kindness and tenderness. During the week you get support emails, basically saying, “How you doing,” and, “Where are you in this?” So you get two or three of those a week, and it just goes like that. It was just a glorious thing to do, and I’ve heard glorious things about it as well. It was glorious for me to do, and the people that are doing it are loving it.

Jennifer: Yeah. It looks like a really full program. Some of the stuff that Geneen talked about today, you

really get to practice. Geneen: Yes. Jennifer: I like part two, which is Beyond What’s Broken: Do You Feel As If You Can’t Trust Yourself.

That’s so huge in this genre of challenge that many of us face. It talks about What Are You Really Hungry For, Finding Your Enough. Relearning Loveliness, that was fun. We didn’t get to that either. You get to play with relearning loveliness.

Geneen: Yeah. That’s from a Galway Kinnell poem where he talks about reteaching loveliness. I tell my

students everything we do is about reteaching yourself your own loveliness. Jennifer: That’s beautiful. Geneen: That’s really the work that this is about.


Jennifer: My feeling is that this program not only will guide you through these eating challenges that

some of us have, but it’s also probably a formula that can work for your whole life. Geneen: Yes. That was my intention, and that’s what I see happening. Jennifer: Beautiful, yeah. People are not only claiming that and taking command of their life there, but

they’re also taking command, probably, of all areas of their life. Geneen: Yes, because when you learn a different way of treating yourself, you’re not willing to go back

to forcing or shaming or being unkind to yourself in any area of your life. This is all applicable to every single area of your life, because what we’re talking about is you with you, via the doorway of food, but because we use food every day, because we eat every day, it’s an everyday thing that we’re doing, learning how to be with ourselves, with food, which translates to everything else.

Jennifer: Beautiful. So again, that is: specials.healingwiththemasters.com/geneen Of course it’ll be in the email, and it’ll be on the replay page as well, right there, the big purple

button there for you to hit. Thank you very much. It is a huge discount. This is normally a $500 product, and it’s being offered at a really beautiful discount. When I first checked out the offer a couple of weeks back and hit the add to cart button, sure enough, it was $497, and now it’s not. It’s a really great discount, so please do go check that out. Thank you so much, Geneen, for a beautiful call and for joining us on Healing with the Masters. I very much enjoyed the conversation.

Geneen: Me too. It’s been a privilege for me to be here. Jennifer: Thank you, and thanks so much, everyone, for being part of today’s show. It seems we always

come to these calls as individuals, and in the end, we wind up a united community and united in our intention. We know we make the difference. We matter. You matter. I love you all so very much. Until next time, good night, everyone. Good night, Geneen.

Geneen: Good night. [End of Discussion]


Volume VIII | August 25, 2011 – December 1, 2011

McLeanMasterWorks.com

HealingWithTheMasters.com

MasterWorksHealing.com

BigBookOfYouBlog.com

Host

Jennifer McLean

Geneen Roth | Featured Guest | November 15, 2011

Oprah Winfrey's Mindful Eating Coach Psychotherapist Specializing in Eating Issues Author of The Self‐Compassion Diet GeneenRoth.com

Geneen Roth's pioneering books were among the first to link compulsive eating and perpetual dieting with deeply personal and spiritual issues that go far beyond food, weight and body image. She believes that we eat the way we live, and that our relationship to food, money, love is an exact reflection of our deepest held beliefs about ourselves and the amount of joy, abundance, pain, scarcity, we believe we have (or are allowed) to have in our lives. Rather than pushing away the "crazy" things we do, Geneen's work proceeds with the conviction that our actions and beliefs make exquisite sense, and that the way to transform our relationship with food is to be open, curious and kind with ourselves‐instead of punishing, impatient and harsh. In the past thirty years, she has worked with hundreds of thousands of people using meditation, inquiry, and a set of seven eating guidelines that are the foundation of natural eating. Geneen has appeared on many national television shows including: The Oprah Show, 20/20, The NBC Nightly News, The View and Good Morning America. Articles about Geneen and her work have appeared in numerous publications including: O: The Oprah Magazine, Cosmopolitan, Time, Elle, The New York Times, The Chicago Tribune, and The Philadelphia Inquirer. She has written monthly columns in Good Housekeeping Magazine and Prevention Magazine. Geneen is the author of eight books, including The New York Times bestsellers When Food is Love and Women Food and God: An Unexpected Path to Almost Everything. Her newest book, to be published in March 2011, is Lost and Found: Unexpected Revelations about Food and Money. WHAT PEOPLE SAY "Many people are talking about wholeness today, but what makes Geneen Roth different is her microscopic honesty. She doesn't hold back. Her work is about the objective truth, and you can feel it nourishing your body." ~Christiane Northrup, MD "Geneen's work will blow you away. It is beautiful and funny and deep, and most of all, she speaks the truth." ~Anne Lamott

www.McLeanMasterWorks.com


www.MasterWorksHealing.com

www.BigBookOfYouBlog.com

www.GeneenRoth.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/geneen-roth/


Volume VIII | August 25, 2011 – December 1, 2011

McLeanMasterWorks.com

HealingWithTheMasters.com

MasterWorksHealing.com

BigBookOfYouBlog.com

Host

Jennifer McLean

Guest Speakers | Further Information

August 25, 2011

Jennifer McLean

Host of Healing With The Masters Launching Her New Book Body Dialoging: 7 Steps to Coping & Thriving in Extreme Times HealingWithTheMasters.com

September 6, 2011

James Van Praagh

Celebrated Medium Co‐Executive Producer of the CBS series Ghost Whisperer VanPraagh.com

September 8, 2011

Ann Taylor

Energy Healer Delivering the Power Of Inner Healing

InnerHealing.com

September 13, 2011

Jacqueline Joy

Spiritual Teacher Life‐changing creator of Diamond Alignment for Equanimity & Joy DiamondAlignment.com

September 15, 2011

Eric Pearl

Internationally recognized Healer Creator of Reconnective Healing TheReconnection.com

www.McLeanMasterWorks.com


www.MasterWorksHealing.com

www.BigBookOfYouBlog.com


www.healingwiththemasters.com/body-dialoging-with-jennifer-mclean/

www.VanPraagh.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/james-van-praagh/

www.InnerHealing.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/ann-taylor/

www.DiamondAlignment.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/jacqueline-joy/

www.TheReconnection.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/eric-pearl/


Healing With the Masters: Volume VIII | Guest Speakers | Further Information (cont’d) September 20, 2011

Patricia Cota‐Robles

Internationally known Teacher Co‐Founder/President of the non‐profit New Age Study of Humanity’s Purpose, Inc. EraofPeace.org

September 22, 2011

Marlise Karlin

Internationally renowned Author, Recording Artist, Educator, Humanitarian “Igniting The Power Of Peace In People Around The World” MarliseKarlin.com

September 27, 2011

Jennifer McLean

Host of Healing With The Masters Launching Her New Book Body Dialoging: 7 Steps to Coping & Thriving in Extreme Times HealingWithTheMasters.com

September 28, 2011

Cynthia Kersey

Best‐Selling Author Motivational Speaker Founder of the UNSTOPPABLE Foundation www.unstoppable.net

September 29, 2011

Sherry Gaba

Celebrity Life Coach Psychotherapist on Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew on VH1 SGabaTherapy.com

www.EraofPeace.org

www.healingwiththemasters.com/patricia-cota-robles/

www.MarliseKarlin.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/marlise-karlin/


www.healingwiththemasters.com/body-dialoging-with-jennifer-mclean/

www.unstoppable.net

www.healingwiththemasters.com/cynthia-kersey/

www.SGabaTherapy.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/sherry-gaba-2/


Healing With the Masters: Volume VIII | Guest Speakers | Further Information (cont’d) October 4, 2011

Sonia Choquette

International Best‐Selling Hay House Author Spiritual Teacher Distinguished Intuitive Advisor SoniaChoquette.com

October 6, 2011

Rikka Zimmerman

Spreading the seeds of Consciousness around the world. “All of life comes to me with ease, joy and glory!” RikkaZimmerman.com

October 11, 2011

Jo Dunning

World Renowned Spiritual Teacher, Author, and Master of Energy "The Miracle Worker" JoDunning.com

October 13, 2011

Barbara Marx Hubbard

Social Innovator, Speaker, Author, Educator Leader in The New Worldview of Conscious Evolution BarbaraMarxHubbard.com

October 18, 2011

Marci Shimoff

#1 New York Times Best‐Selling Author, Transformational Leader Leading Expert on Happiness, Success, and Unconditional Love HappyforNoReason.com

www.SoniaChoquette.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/sonia-choquette/

www.RikkaZimmerman.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/rikka-zimmerman/

www.JoDunning.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/jo-dunning/

www.BarbaraMarxHubbard.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/barbara-marx-hubbard/

www.HappyforNoReason.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/marci-shimoff/


Healing With the Masters: Volume VIII | Guest Speakers | Further Information (cont’d) October 19, 2011

Elizabeth Jones

Astrologer Extraordinaire and Gifted Intuitive Revealing the nature of powerful 2011 transitions AstrologyofLight.com

October 20, 2011

Don Miguel Ruiz

Best‐Selling Author of The Four Agreements Toltec Master Founder of The Sixth Sun Foundation MiguelRuiz.com

October 25, 2011

Neale Donald Walsch

Internationally Recognized Spiritual Messenger New York Times Best‐Selling Author of the Conversations With God series NealeDonaldWalsch.com

October 27, 2011

Maureen Moss

Catalyst for evolution of the human soul 4‐Time Award‐Winning Author President of the World Puja Network Global Keynote Speaker MaureenMoss.com

November 1, 2011

Deborah King

Master Healer New York Times Best‐Selling Health & Wellness Author of Be Your Own Shaman DeborahKingCenter.com

www.AstrologyofLight.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/elizabeth-jones/

www.MiguelRuiz.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/don-miguel-ruiz/

www.NealeDonaldWalsch.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/neale-donald-walsch/

www.MaureenMoss.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/maureen-moss/

www.DeborahKingCenter.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/deborah-king/


Healing With the Masters: Volume VIII | Guest Speakers | Further Information (cont’d) November 2, 2011

Kaitlyn Keyt

Founder Of VibesUP 3‐Time Visionary Award Winner for her unique healing tools VibesUP.com

November 3, 2011

Lindsay Wagner

Popular Actress, Advocate of Human Potential Author of “Quiet The Mind & Open The Heart” Workshops and Retreats LindsayWagner.com

November 8, 2011

Bill Bauman

Celebrated Leader of Leaders, Healer of Healers Dedicated Servant of World Servers BillBauman.net

November 10, 2011

Morty & Shelly Lefkoe

Founders of The Lefkoe Institute Morty is the Creator of The Lefkoe Method series Shelly is the Founder and President of the Possibilities of Parenting Center LefkoeInstitute.com

November 15, 2011

Geneen Roth

Oprah Winfrey's Mindful Eating Coach Psychotherapist Specializing in Eating Issues Author of The Self‐Compassion Diet GeneenRoth.com

www.VibesUP.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/kaitlyn-keyt-2/

www.LindsayWagner.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/lindsay-wagner/

www.BillBauman.net

www.healingwiththemasters.com/bill-bauman/

www.LefkoeInstitute.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/morty-shelly-lefkoe/

www.GeneenRoth.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/geneen-roth/


Healing With the Masters: Volume VIII | Guest Speakers | Further Information (cont’d) November 17, 2011

Jean Houston

Scholar, Philosopher and Researcher in human capacities Foremost Visionary Thinker Principal Founder of the Human Potential Movement JeanHouston.org

November 22, 2011

Colette Baron‐Reid

Internationally renowned Intuitive Counselor, Educator and Motivational Speaker Best Selling Hay House Author ColetteBaronReid.com

November 29, 2011

John Gray

Best‐Selling Relationship Author Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus and the Mars/Venus book series MarsVenus.com

December 1, 2011

Mary A. Hall

Renowned Healer Abundance Life Coach Author and Speaker MaryAHall.com

Conversation Transcription Specialists Electronic Publishing | Broadcast & Mass Media | Marketing Research Business Communications | Closed Captioning PremierTranscription.com [email protected]

www.JeanHouston.org

www.healingwiththemasters.com/Jean-Houston/

www.ColetteBaronReid.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/colette-baron-reed/

www.MarsVenus.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/john-gray/

www.MaryAHall.com

www.healingwiththemasters.com/mary-a-hall/



Documents

HWTM VIII-25 Geneen Roth 11-15-11€¦ · Welcome, Geneen Roth, to Healing with the Masters. We are so honored to have you join us tonight. Geneen: Thank you, Jennifer. I’m really,