god_or_men

8/10/2019 god_or_men

1/41

Christadelphianism of God or Men?A Reply to the Aug. 1962 Watchtoer Article

By. R. W. Abel[Found at--- http://antipas.org/books/christadelphianism/cism_toc.html

[!he booklet is appro"imately #$ pages %hen printed out. &agenumbers 'rom original pamphlet remain %ithin the te"t(the numbersin the table o' contents belo% match the numbering %ithin the originalte"t

)*nless other%ise indicated+ the ,e% World !ranslation o' the Bible hasbeen used

C!"#$"#%&oreord

'. An e(amination of your Watchtoer riter)s *&our

+asic %hortcomings of Christadelphianism*

st laim - hristadelphianism kno%s nothing o' the issue o'

uni0ersal so0ereignty and the 0indication o' 1eho0ah2s name

.................................................................................... 3nd laim - 4ack o' unity among hristadelphian 'ello%ships #

#rd laim - hristadelphians do not recogni5e the ,e%

!estament preaching obligation .................................6

7th laim - !he hristadelphian lack o' hope 'or the dead 8

hrist2s sacri9ce 'or %hole %orld................................

;"amination o' Re0. 3


2/41

''. An e(amination of the alleged *,roducts of -uman

Reasoning*

6th laim - !he &rehuman e"istence o' 1esus ................3

en. :3$ =4et us ... in our=....................................... 3

1ohn =n the beginning %as the logos= ...................#

olossians =!he 9rst-born o' all creation= ...............7

enesis :3$=4et us ... in our= -- conclusion ............. 6

1ohn 8:6. =!he glory that had Be'ore the %orld %as= $

$th laim - !he &ersonality o' Catan and @emons ........

*se o' =Catanas= and =diabolos .................................1ames 3:> -- =!he demons belie0e and shudder= .. ..3th laim - !he 1e%ish return to &alestine -- political and

humanitarian........................................................ 3$

!he contradiction o' the Witnesses .......................... 3

Come Euestions..........................................................3>

A 0indication o' the real 1eho0ah2s Witnesses ............3>

4isting o' anadian hristadelphian ;cclesias -

hristadelphianism o' od or ?en


3/41



4/41

&!R$WAR/

. !his reply is the product o' a young hristadelphian )brother

o' hrist still in uni0ersity. Ge belie0es that thehristadelphians are representati0e o' 9rst centuryhristianity+ and that they ha0e ascertained the basicelements o' the ospel message. Ge does not make thepresumption that they ha0e ascertained all !ruth.

3. !he %riter is o' the con0iction that the !ruth o' the elementso' that message are clearly e0ident to anyone %ho searches%ith his %hole heart. Ge belie0es+ there'ore+ that this !ruthcan be clearly sho%n. ' he 'ails to display the !ruth %ith this

clarity+ he has only t%o alternati0es to 'ace:

a. Gis e"position has 'ailed because he lacks the depth o'understanding and communication that more astutehristadelphians could aHord.

or

b. !hat he has been decei0ed+ and he doesn2t really ha0ethe !ruth. )then the sooner he is put right the better

#. !he e"aminations contained here appeal to only one criteriao' !ruth+ the authority o' the =4a% and the !estimony= )sa.:3


5/41

c. Ce0enth @ay Ad0entists ha0e their prophetess+ ;llenWhite.

&A; )ii

d. ;0angelicals claim that the Bible is the %ord o' od+ yetthey are Euick to in'orm one that %ithout an=e"perience= %ith hrist and the ind%elling o' the GolyCpirit in a mystical %ay+ one can ne0er understand theBook. !he real authority then+ is the Goly Cpirit and notthe Book. ?any become skeptical o' this =kind= o'hristianity %hen t%o ;0angelicals+ eEually con0incedthey are being =led into all !ruth= by the Goly Cpirit+come up %ith repeated 0arying interpretations o' the

same 0erses. s the Goly Cpirit the author o' con'usione. And may suggest that you+ the =1eho0ah Witnesses= to

%hom this %ork is sent+ ha0e your dual authority as%ell. ,otice in a discussion ho% 'ast you pull out 4etod Be !rue or ?ake Cure o' All !hings as soon as adiIculty is reached in your e"planations. t %ould seemthat you are as regimented+ and tied to a secondauthority as the people mentioned abo0e. While youclaim sole allegiance to the Book+ in reality you only

interpret the Book by %hat your pioneers and current%riters teach. A challenge to your Witnesses sendsthem 'ar 'aster to a 2Watchto%er= publication than tothe Ccriptures+ and this is %rong. suggest that %ith theWord and it alone+ the search be made to see %hetherthese things be so or not+ 'or it is the Word that is ableto build us up and gi0e us an inheritance among allthose %ho are sancti9ed.

!he %isdom o' this is best demonstrated %ith a practicale"ample. ' you %anted to 9nd out as to %hether or not the

1e%ish return to &alestine has been in 'ul9llment o' Bibleprophecy and you consulted Ruther'ord2s Garp o' od+ >3+you %ould 9nd that he said =yes= )see page 36$. '+ho%e0er+ in >$# you consulted the scriptural =guides=oHered by the anonymous %riters 4et od Be !rue+ the



6/41

ans%er %ould be an emphatic =no= )see page 3.Jb0iously one is a ='alse %itness= and i' a blind 'ollo%er isled by a blind 'alse %itness+ =both %ill 'all into a pit.= )?t.6:7



7/41

&A;

An $(amination !f 0our Alleged *&our +asic%hortcomings* of Christadelphians

#he 1st Claims

1. That Christadelphianism knows nothing of the issue ofuniversal sovereignty.

2. That the vindication of Jehovah's name is more importantthan the salvation of human creatures.

3. That one does not become aware from readingChristadelphian literature that 1 and 2 are truths.

#hese Claims $(amined

. !he ?emorial ,ame o' the @eity is most accurately rendered=Kah%eh= according to recent scholarship. 1eho0ah is amongrel 'orm not used until centuries a'ter the Apostles)about 6-63< A.@. -- !he Westminster @ictionary o' theBible and Gastings+ @ictionary o' the Bible+ Lol. 3+ p. >>. nthe pre'ace to the Re0ised Ctandard Lersion it is also stated

that+ =!he %ord 1eho0ah does not accurately represent any'orm+ o' the ,ame e0er used in Gebre%....= p. 0i. !heseauthorities are 0indicating this claim made byhristadelpians since 6. Anyone %ishing to check thehristadelphian position can do so by consulting @r. !homas2articles on =od-mani'estation= in the Gerald o' theDingdom+ 6.

3. !he ?emorial name+ Kah%eh+ translated = shall pro0e to be=);". # 7 by the ,e% World translation gi0es part o' the

prophetic sense o' the %ord. What Kah%eh %ill pro0e to be+ isindicated in the combination o' Kah%eh %ith other Gebre%%ords.

For ;"ample:

ahweh !lohim"=Ge %ill be mighty ones.=

)Kah%eh M =Ge %ill be -- Gastings+ p. >> and



8/41

elohim M =mighty ones= -- Koung2s Analyticaloncordance

ahweh#tsidkenu)margin D.1. =Ge %ill be righteousness=

1er. 3#:$. )this is especially sho%n in hrist

#. Kah%eh mani'ested himsel' in one o' the mighty ones)elohim %hich %ent be'ore the children o' srael. J' thisangel+ od said+ =Ge %ill not pardon your transgressionsbecause my name is %ithin him.= );k. 3#:3. )Cee claim 6+section 3 'or 'urther de0elopment

&A; 3

7. od has also mani'ested his character and purpose throughmen. ?oses %as to ser0e as =od= )elohim M mighty ones to

Aaron );". 7:$. ?oses %as also to be =od to &haroah=)elohim M mighty ones+ again );". 8:. !he Nudges o' srael%ere called =ods= )elohim )&s. 3:$. )1esus Euotes thispassage against the 1e%s in 1ohn


9/41

. !he 9rst three claims o' your Watchto%er %riter are 'alse.!hey are a gross misrepresentation o' hristadelphianteaching. !he e0idence presented in this outline may bechecked to be standard hristadelphian teaching by

consulting the 'ollo%ing publications:a. !heophany by .. Walker+ the 'ormer editor o' the

hristadeiphian+ )Birmingham+ >3>. !his contains ane"hausti0e treatment o' the di0ine name concerning=20indication and so0ereignty.= );specially see the 9rst #pages. !his publication has circulated amonghristadelphians 'or the past ## years.

b. &hanerosis by 1ohn !homas+ )Birmingham+ >67 edition.!his is =an e"position o' the doctrine o' the Jld and ,e%

!estaments+ concerning the ?ani'estation o' the in0isibleeternal od in human nature.=

&A; #

c. Larious issues in the e"amination o' this claim ha0e beentouched upon in a series o' =Wrested Ccriptures=appearing in !he hristadelphian maga5ine+ )>68- 6.

d. !he hristadelphian Ad0ocate+ a monthly maga5ine =in@e'ense o' the !hings concerning the Dingdom o' od and

the name o' 1esus hrist= as embraced in =the Gope o'srael+= contains a rele0ant article =od2s Co0ereignty=+>$3+ page 38. )&ublished 6


10/41

2. There are at least 12 fraternities calling themselvesChristadelphians" each refusing to fellowship with the other11. Jesus said that by the disciples love for one another allwould be able to recogni)e his followers. *urely this love is

lacking ... and stamps Christadelphian work as being not of+od" but of men.

#his Claim $(amined

. Kour 'acts are correct+ but your conclusion %rong.hristadelphians ha0e had their di0isions+ but so ha0e you.Chortly a'ter the death o' Russell in >$+ a number%ithdre% 'rom the =Watchto%er+ Bible and !ract Cociety='ounded by Russell. A note in &reser0ation indicates that

these ha0e since re'used to cooperate %ith the said societyand its %ork+ 'orming themsel0es into diHerent and=numerous companies+= taking such names as BibleCtudents+ Associated Bible Ctudents+ Russellites+Ctand'asters and like names+ =all o' %hich tends to causecon'usion and misunderstanding.= pages ##$-##8.

&A; 7

3. !he conclusion that =hristadelphianism must be o' men=

because they ha0e di0isions no more applies to them than itdoes to you. @i0isions e"isted 'rom the 0ery 'oundations o'hristianity. 1esus said =!he stumbling blocks must o'necessity come+ but %oe to the man through %hom thestumbling block comesO= )?t. :8

&aul said to the orinthians =,or the disclosure was made tome about you .... that dissensions e-ist among you.) or.:

And to the alatians+ ou keep on biting and devouring one

another.)al. 6:6But surely it is not a Nusti9able conclusion to apply the rule o'

1ohn #:#7 to the apostles and reason that the 9rst centuryFaith must ha0e been o' men because some o' the membersin alatia and orinth %ere 'actious and not e"ercising thescriptural lo0e one to another. !his is precisely the %ay you



11/41

ha0e applied it to the hristadelphians. t must beremembered that it is scriptural teaching that the gospeldragnet gathers up 9sh =o' e0ery kind= )?t. #:78-6


12/41

#he rd Claim

That Christadephianism does not recogni)e the obligation topreach the good of the kingdom to all the nations. $ 1/01.*.$. Census report is uoted to show that" The

Christadelphian province is to make known the true +ospelto the people of so#called Christendom who have been ledastray from the simplicity of the truth preached by Christand his apostles.

#his Claim $(amined

. hristadelphians are no respecters o' persons %hen it comesto gospel proclamation %ork. !hey proclaim the gospel

message to all %ith ears to hear+ %hether they be 1eho0ahWitnesses+ Roman atholics+ ?uslims+ atheists or in9dels. nthis respect the census Euoted is misleading. !hehristadelphian pro0ince is to preach to all+ and this =all=includes+ but is not con9ned to apostate hristendom.hristadelphian missionary %ork in British uiana+ ndia+ andA'rica has led to con0erts 'rom slam and Ginduism.

3. As a body+ they belie0e that the commission to !imothy to=&reach the %ord+ be at it urgently= )3 !im. 7:3 applies Nust

as po%er'ully to the t%entieth century as it did in the 9rst.&A; $

!he hristadelphian attitude to preaching is e"pressed inthese e"tracts:

!o hold 'orth the Word o' 4i'e is not there'ore the 0oluntarypastime o' a 'e% o' us: in some 'orm it is the responsibility o'us all.

ertainly the 9rst commandments to preach %ere gi0en to

the Apostles themsel0es )as %as ine0itable+ but thesee"amples sho% ho% much %ider %as their scope. n additionto the Apostles or those directly appointed by them+ %e 9ndin the Acts alone that the gospel is preached by &risca andAEuila+ By Apollos+ by men o' yprus and yrene+ and by=many others also= )Acts :7P :3


13/41

Bride say+ ome: and let him that heareth say+ ome.= )Re0.33:8. !his admits o' no e"ception. !ur duty is not amatter for conecture or preference.

A.@. ,orris.+ &reaching the Word+ Birmingham+ >77+ p. >

We ha0e a purpose to 'ul9ll. We are preachers. We must say+ome. od has ordained that it shall be so.

!he Bible ?issionary+ Jctober >6$+ p. 3>.

#. hristadelphians are no %here numerous in comparison %ithother churches. !hey do not e"pect to 9nd a massi0eresponse to the message they proclaim. ' they did+ there%ould be good reason to suspect that they %ere no longerproclaiming !he Way =that %as e0ery%here spoken against=+

'or among other reasons+ 1esus said+ =,arro% is the gate andcramped the road leading oH into li'e+ and 'e% are the ones9nding it.= )?t+ 8:7. !hey do though+ ha0e ad0ertisingschemes %orking in many countries. !hese ha0e includedPGolland+ ndia+ eylon+ ;ast+ entral+ and Couth A'rica+?alaya+ hana+ the British ameroons+ !he &hilippines+,igeria+ &akistan+ Burma+ 4atin America+ the Couth &aci9c+ermany+ France+ Ccandina0ia+ 1amaica+ !rinidad+ Britishuiana+ !obago+ Australia+ !asmania+ ,e% Qealand+ Belgium+Borneo+ Cara%ak+ Rhodesia+ Barbados+ hina+ and 1apan. n

some o' these areas hristadelphians ha0e establishedecclesias. !his is not Euoted to glory in their eHorts+ butrather to correct the unin'ormed comments o' yourWatchto%er %riter.

&A; 8

7. hristadelphians do not claim that only those trademarked=hristadelphian= %ill constitute the kingdom. !heyrecogni5e that Kah%eh+ throughout the earth+ could still ha0e

his 8+


14/41

compare s. 7:3+ 33P 73:> %ith @eut. 3+ 4e0. 3$ and suchpassages as ;5. :$ and 1er. #-##.

Anyone %ishing to e"amine 'urther the hristadelphianposition regarding this claim and reply+ may 9nd the

'ollo%ing hristadelphian %orks help'ul:. A.@. ,orris+ Gelps 'or the ampaigner -- !his is a # pagetyped e"tract 'rom the larger %ork+ &reaching the Word.

3. A 4etter to 1eho0ah2s Witnesses - hristadelphian ;cclesia>:3

hristadelphianism o' od or ?en 7


15/41

c. 1eremiah speaking o' the Babylonions says+ =they mustsleep an inde9nitely lasting sleep+ 'rom %hich they %ill not%ake up.= )1er. 6 :68

#. saiah insisted that =all the nations are something non-

e"istent in 'ace o' himP as nothing and an unreality theyha0e been accounted to him.= )s. 7


16/41

7. !hose %ho =come 'orth= at the bidding o' the Con o' od+ doso 'or =Nudgment=+ either unto =li'e= or =damnation= )1n. 6:3>+D.1.. !here is no other opportunity.

6. !his passage ) 1n. 3:3 has nothing to do %ith a big or little

ock.

3th Claim ,art 4+5

$ll those in the 'sea'" '7eath' and '8ades' will come forth.

#his Claim $(amined

. =All= is nearly al%ays Euali9ed in the ,e% !estament.

For ;"ample:

a. =,o% in those days a decree %ent 'orth 'rom aesarAugustus 'or all the inhabited earth to be registered.=)4uke 3:. !he =all the inhabited earth= did not e"tend toCouth America+ but Nust to the Roman World.

b. =All that e0er came be'ore me are thie0es and robbers.=)1n.


17/41

unrighteous+ and these shall come 'orth in the resurrectionday )Acts 37:6+ but that there are also the dead %hom=1eho0ah ... has remembered no longer.= )&s. :6

7. t is %orth noting that your Watchto%er %riter has not one

supporting claim 'rom the Jld !estament on this issue.

3th Claim ,art 4C5

That the resurrection is not limited to responsible ones isfurther made clear from 9atthew's application of Jer. 311:"1;" to the babes of 4ethlehem" for Jeremiah goes on to showthat these babes will come back from the land of the enemyand


18/41

&A;

c. !hat natural srael %ill be restored to &alestine.

. 0s. =Behold %ill collect them 'rom the remotestparts o' the earth.=

3. 0s. < =!he Jne scattering srael %ill himsel' collecthim together.=

#. 0s. 3 = shall keep alert to%ard them to build up andto plant them.=

7. Cee also 0s. + 3+ #+ $+ 3+ etc.

#. Rachel and 4eah =both ... built the house o' srael.= )Ruth7:. n this sense Rachel is the =mother= o' srael. Come o'her sons =are no more= because o' od2s punishmentsthrough Gerod. But Kah%eh com'orts her )0s. $ %ith thepromise that her scattered sons %ill return 'rom the =lands o'their enemies= to &alestine+ their homeland. !he passage hasnothing to do %ith the resurrection o' babies.

3th Claim ,art 4/5

>ould the children of believers be termed holy if their destinywas that of unholy mankind in the event they died before

reaching the age of accountability?

#his Claim $(amined

. =Goly= in the ,e% !estament means separate+ set apart.Gere are t%o e"amples:

a. =;0ery male opening a %omb must be called holy to1eho0ah.= )4uke 3:3#.

b. srael is spoken o' as the =holy= 9rst 'ruit )Rom. :$.But neither passage carries the implication that all srael orall 'athers ha0e a resurrectional destiny %ith the 'aith'ul.

&A; 3

3. !he passage in or. 8 is o' the same category. !he conte"tdiscusses the status o' a hristian belie0er ha0ing pre0iously



19/41

married a pagan partner. &aul says that the children are=holy=. !he belie0ing partner has the responsibility to bringthe children up =in the discipline and authoritati0e ad0ice o'

1eho0ah= );ph. $:7. Because o' this+ and 'or the sake o' the

belie0ing parent+ the children are =set aside= or =separate=under od2s special care. n the Jld !estament the %holehouse o' Abraham %as blessed 'or his righteousness and&aul indicates to the belie0ing partners in orinth the eHecto' the same principle. &aul no%here mentions that the =holy=has any application to a resurrectional destiny.

#he th Claim 77 #he %upposed ,rehuman $(istence of8esus.

th Claim ,art 4A5

That the plural us of +en. 12; %@et us make man in ourimage( cannot refer to +od himself because a 4ible*cholar" 7elit)sch" said that this cannot be shown.

#his Claim $(amined

. Cince your Watchto%er %riter ackno%ledges neither theauthor+ nor the title o' the hristadelphian publication to%hich he re'ers+ it has not been possible to establish theconte"t o' his remarks.

3. hristadelphians do not claim that the =us= o' this passage)en+ :3$ re'ers to Kah%eh. !he =us= in this passage is the=elohim=+ and 'or reasons de0eloped in the e"amination o'the ne"t claim+ hristadelphians understand the =elohim= tobe od2s mighty ones+ his angels.

#. Writing on the =elohim=+ Cmith )an ackno%ledged authorityon Gebre%+ in his @ictionary o' the Bible says+ 'rom%hate0er the root+ the %ord may be deri0ed+ most are o' theopinion that the primary idea contained in it is that o'strength+ po%erP so that ;lohim is the proper appellation o'the @eity+ as mani'ested in Gis creati0e and uni0ersallysustaining agency...

hristadelphianism o' od or ?en >


20/41

Article =1eho0ah=+ p. >6$+ Lol. .

&A; #

J' the many Bible commentators+ this Euotation mostaccurately summari5es the hristadelphian concept o'

=elohim= in en. :3$.

7. !he usage o' =elohim= is generally 0ery elastic in scripture. thas been translated in the Authori5ed LersionP od )en.:3$+ Angels )&s. :6+ oddess ) Dings :##+ Nudges );".3:$+ and e0en applied to pagan idols in 1udges $:3#. !hemeaning o' elohim )like that o' spirit or soul is bestestablished by the conte"t o' the passage in Euestion andthe ability o' e"planation to 9t the basic pattern o' Bibleteaching.

6. @elit5sch+ rather than re'uting the hristadelphian claim+bolsters it. Ge is correct. A plural in scripture cannot besho%n %here od is solely speaking o' himsel'. !he di0inename though is o'ten accompanied by plural %ords+ and=elohim= is one o' those %ords. For e"ample in ;". #:6 or@eut. 3:6 =4ord od= in the Gebre% is Kah%eh elohim. !hiscan be rendered+ =Ge %ho %ill be mighty ones.= Again thesigni9cance o' the @i0ine ,ame in od mani'estation isdemonstrated.

th Claim ,art 4+5

That +od was speaking to the @ogos" his *on" when 8e said"@et us make man is apparent from Jn. 13 and Col. 11:"1;" where the @ogos is shown to have been +od's activeagent in creation.

#his Claim $(amined. 1ohn

a. By checking any Bible oncordance+ it is e0ident thatlogos is used scripturally 'or the utterances o' man as %ellas od.



21/41

b. n the Authori5ed Lersion+ =logos= is translated by at leastt%el0e diHerent %ords. !he de9nition o' =logos= does notdenote personality. !he personal pronoun =he= indicatesthat logos is a masculine noun in reek+ but in the French

=logos= is 'eminine and the personal pronoun =she=.on'usion is a0oided %hen the pronoun is translated =it=as in your ;mphatic @iaglott.

&A; 7

c. od did not speak to =!he logos+ his son= in en. :3$+because:

. the logos as sho%n abo0e is not a person.

3. the Con did not e"ist as a person at the time o'

creation.1esus hrist %as the product o' the union o' the Goly Cpiritand ?ary )4uke :#7+ #6. t should be clear that he %asneither the Goly Cpirit+ nor ?ary+ but as stated the producto' the union+ hrist had no personality prior to his birthand there'ore %as not in e"istence to do the creati0e %orko' enesis.

d. Angels )en+ $:


22/41

a. olossians pro0ides its o%n e"planation o' the =9rst-borno' all creation= in 0erse . Gere the =9rst-born o' allcreation= is interpreted to be the 9rst-born 'rom the dead.

b. !he Biblical Euali9cation on =all= is ackno%ledged by your

%riters and has been clari9ed earlier in this reply. !he =all=o' %hich hrist is the 9rst-born+ are those ne% creatures+born o' the %ater and spirit. hrist is the head o' this body.

&A; 6

c. !he =creation= o' ol. is not the creation o' trees andanimals o' en. + but the ne% creation+ theregeneration o' men and %omen. reate and creation are'reEuently used in this regenerati0e sense+ eg. al $:6P 3or. 6:8P 1ames :P ;ph. 3:


23/41

. od )elohim is said to ha0e appeared to ?oseson Cinai );". 3.

#. ;lohim in &s. >8:8+ =Bo% do%n to him all yegods= )elohim again is understood to be=angels= in Geb. :$. =And let all od2s angels%orship him.=

7. ;". >:> %ith Acts 8:# %ithGeb. 3:3 may also be checked.

&A; $

b. When %e read+ =od said+ let us.+= it %as the =elohim=+od2s angels )in this case %ho being =mighty in po%er+carrying out his %ord+= %ere the =ministers o' his doinghis %ill= )&s.


24/41

3. !he Bible language then+ that speaks o' 1esus as the =4ambslaughtered 'rom the 'ounding o' the %orld.= )Re0. #: canbe understood. hrist2s sacri9ce is here e"pressed as thoughit occurred at the beginning o' time+ but the true sense is

apparent. !he glory could only come a'ter the cross. 1esusdid not literally die be'ore the %orld began. !his kind o' Biblelanguage is a %ay o' emphasi5ing the sel'-e0ident truth thatit %as in the 'orekno%ledge and plan o' the Father 'rom the0ery beginning that 1esus should die as the =4amb o' odthat takes a%ay the sin o' the %orldO= )1n.:3>.

&A; 8

#. ,ote the %ay &eter dri0es the nails into the pre-e"istencecasket. Ge says e"plicitly that this 4amb %as+ ='orekno%n

be'ore the 'ounding o' the %orld+ but he %as made mani'estat the end o' the times 'or the sake o' Kou.= ) &et. :3+ D.1. !hey %erechosen in hrist be'ore the ='ounding o' the %orld=);ph. :7P Re0. 8:.

. #he ,rophets

1eremiah...=Be'ore %as 'orming you in the belly kne%you+ and be'ore you proceeded to come 'orth 'rom the

%omb+ sancti9ed you.= )1er. :6.3 1ohn the Baptist... ' you are going to be consistent in

your translation+ %hy not render the literal 'orce o' thereek in 1n. :$+ =!here %as a man sent 'rom besideod= %ould you no% proclaim that 1ohn e"isted as a



25/41

=spirit being= in hea0en be'ore he %as born o' hismother ;li5abeth

6. !here is a similar e"pression in ?t. 36:#7+ =come you %hoha0e my Father2s blessing+ inherit the kingdom prepared 'or

you 'rom the 'ounding o' the %orld.= !he kingdom+ like1eremiah+ the belie0ers+ and 1esus+ ha0e been in the @i0inepurpose in prospect since the 0ery beginning -- =prepared'rom the 'ounding o' the %orld=. !he architect sees andkno%s the beauti'ul details o' his proposed constructionbe'ore the site is prepared or the 'oundation-stone laid. nthis sense+ and this sense only+ 1esus had glory %ith theFather be'ore the %orld began.

&A;

$. !he tragedy o' pre-e"istence ideas o' hrist is the %ay itaHects our thinking about his nature and sacri9ce.

a. ' 1esus %as conscious o' ha0ing e"isted in hea0en asthe glorious creator+ ho% could he in any sense betempted the %ay am )Geb. 7:6

b. t seems that the complete rele0ance and 'orce o' &aul2sargument in or. 6+ is also lost i' 1esus pre-e"isted asa spirit creature. &aul says+ =,e0ertheless+ the 9rst is

not that %hich is spiritual+ but that %hich is physical+a'ter%ards that %hich is spiritual.= )0s. 7$. But i' 1esuspre-e"isted+ then 'or him this di0inely appointed order isre0ersedP 9rst spiritual+ then natural. Go% then is he the9rstborn among many brethren i' indeed his e"perienceis the 0ery re0erse o' theirs

#he 6th Claim 77 #he ,ersonality of %atan and /emons

6th Claim ,art 4A5

That Christadelphians have a faulty argument when theyreason that satanas and diabolos in a consistenttranslation" should not be rendered as proper nouns.



26/41

#his Claim $(amined

. t is e0ident 'rom the use o' =diabolos= and =satanas= inscripture+ that no argument is 0alid %hich makes the obNecto' re'erence a 'allen angel de0il. !o attempt to do so %ould

make the personal de0il notion ridiculous+ 'or the %omen in !im. #:+ od2s holy angel in ,um. 33:33+ men in 3 !im.#:#+ aged %omen in !itus 3:#+ Gadad the ;domite in Dings:7 %ould all become 'allen angelsO

3. !he 'ollo%ing passages sho% the %ay the Bible %riters apply=Catan= to ad0ersaries and =@e0il= to 'alse accusers. n thisusage =diabolos= and =satanas= are nouns. !he 'ollo%ingpassages sho% the %ay =Catan= can be applied to od+angels or men+ and =@e0il= to 0arious mani'estation o' sin.

,um. 33:33 An angel is a =satan=

3 Cam. 37: od is a =satan= ompare %ith hron. 3:

?att. $:3# - &eter is a =satan=

1ohn $:8< - 1udas is a =de0il=

Re0. 3

' ad0ersary is substituted 'or =Catan= and slanderer 'or

=@e0il=.+ then these passages are easily understood+ but i''allen angel is substituted+ they are absurd+ 'or it %ould makeod+ &eter+ 1udas and the serpent all 'allen angels.

#. Bible %riters ne0er considered =Catan the @e0il= to be a'allen angel+ and should your traditional re'erences in s. 7+;5. 3 or Re0. 3 be considered as e0idence.+hristadelphians %ould consider it a pleasure to discussthese in detail.

7. Come Euestions:

' =Catan the @e0il= is a real indi0idual+ then ho% do youe"plain the 'ollo%ing:

a. n !im. :3


27/41

this Catan ' Catan is %hat you claim+ then he %as Nustthe one to teach them ho% to blasphemeO

b. n Re0. 3::8-38+ dumbness )?t. >:#3+



28/41

and insanity )?t. :3P ?ark 6:-6. !o ha0e demons is usedin connection %ith+ and apparently eEui0alent to =beingmad= eg. 1ohn :7+


29/41

hunger+ not the man that is 'ull. !emptation+ 1ames says+comes 'rom %ithinP =But each one is tried by being dra%n outand enticed by his o%n desire+ %hen it has become 'ertile+gi0es birth to sin.= )1ames :7+ 6.

7. ,ote the progression o' =passing the buck=.a. !he man blames the %oman 'or the sin.

b. !he %oman blames the serpent.

c. But the serpent blames no one+ not e0en your 'allen angelde0il+ and the reasonable solution is that he blamed no'allen angel+ because there %as no 'allen angel to beblamed.

6. od deals %ith !GR;; parties in the enesis account o' the

'all+ and three only. A 'allen angel de0il hypothesis is anincorporation. !his alleged 'ourth party isn2t mentioned once.

#he :th Claim ;

That Jesus Christ's death was substitutionary.

#his Claim $(amined

. !he terms =commercial transaction= and =substitution= areneither scriptural %ords nor scriptural ideas.

3. ' all the nations are as something none"istent in 'ront o' him)J@ s. 7


30/41

'orgi0en the debtO ' the debt is paid+ then there is no longerneed 'or 'orgi0eness.

6. Kour substitutionary theory demands the presentation o'e0idence that hrist himsel' had a 'ree or un'or'eited li'e by

nature o' %hich he %ould not ha0e died+ had he not %illinglygi0en his li'e 'or others. Cuch e0idence could ne0er come'rom scripture+ 'or there is =one esh o' man= ) or. 6:#>and hrist %as =a man= ) !im. 3:6. Ge %as identical %ith=the esh and blood nature o' his brethren= )Geb. 3:7.Because the li'e is contained in the blood )4e0. 8:- >the same process o' =dying thou shalt die+= %ould ha0eproduced death in hrist Nust the same as it does in hisbrethren.

$. ' hrist. died as =a corresponding ransom+= a =substitute= or=instead= o' us+ paying the penalty naturally due to us -death+ then he ought not to ha0e risen+ )%hich he did 'or hisli'e %as %hat he ga0e as the redemption price. )1ohn . Jn the basis o' the sacri9ce o' hrist+ od 'orgi0es sinsP);ph. 7:#3. !he scriptural language is that hrist died ='orus=+ =tasted death 'or e0ery man= )Geb. 3:> and that =i' %edied together )%ith him+ D.1.+ %e shall also li0e together= . )3

!im. 3:. !his is the language o' representation e"hibitedthroughout the types o' the 4a% o' ?osesP

hristadelphianism o' od or ?en #


31/41

&A; 3#

it is not the language o' substitution understood as a=commercial transaction=. od does not present himsel' inscripture as Jne %ho punishes the innocent instead o' the

guilty+ but rather the %ickedness o' man %ill rest =upon hiso%n sel'= );5. :3


32/41

!hat the chapter has its application in the 'uture.1eho0ah is not =yet Ding o0er all the earth= )0s. >P1erusalem is not no% =inhabited in security= )0s. Pnor is all the %ealth o' all the nations round about been

gathered to 1erusalem )0s. 7.&A; 37

3. !he geographic descriptions o' the chapter are names o'literal places.

a. !he =Kah%eh= o' Qech. 7 is the Ding =installed= o' &s. 3:$+!his presents no problem once the scriptural teaching onod mani'estation is understood. t is clear scripturally+that the =%orld to come has been subNected to hrist untilhe has brought to nothing all authority and po%er.= ) or.

6:37. hrist %ill bear the name o' the =?ighty od= asKah%eh2s accredited representati0e %hen the conEuestcommences as described in Qech. 7.

b A 'urther proo' that hrist %ill reign on the earth may bededuced 'rom &s. 3. When the nations shall ha0e =massedtogether as one= )0s. 3+ the prophetic utterance o'

1eho0ah is that =+ e0en + ha0e installed my Ding upon myholy mountain= ),ote the similarity %ith Qech. 7:7+ his'eet %ill actually stand on the mountain. !he holy

mountain is on the earth not in hea0en.

c. n ;". 3:3>+ the 4ord e"claimed through the prophet+=remo0e the turban+ and li't oH the cro%n. !his %ill not bethe same...it %ill certainly become no one2s until he comes%ho has the legal right.= hrist has the legal right+and thethrone o' srael is in 1erusalem. 1esus %ill reign on theearth+ he has not yet come into his kingdom+ nor is hereigning =o0er the earth in inner chambers= )?t. 7:3$.

d. S!he 1erusalem %hich is abo0e= o' al. 7:37+ is part o' anallegory )=symbolic drama=+ ob0iously not literal 'or aliteral city is not a literal =mother=. t is an admission o'%eakness %hen a passage o' this kind must be used todispro0e the plain testimonies o' at least 'our inspired%riters %ho teach a hea0enly 1erusalem on the earth.

hristadelphianism o' od or ?en #3


33/41

#. t is 'alse to say that hristadelphians deny the hea0enlynature o' od2s Dingdom and hea0enly re%ard o' the saints.t is a standard hristadelphian e"position that the Dingdomo' od is the Dingdom o' hea0en and that the clothing o'

immortality )3 or. 6:+ 3 is the =ncorruptible and unde9ledand un'ading inheritance...reser0ed in the hea0ens.= ) &et.:7+ to be brought %ith hrist %hen he literally and 0isiblyreturns the second time )Acts :P ?t. $:38P Rom. 33:3.For a complete re'utation o' the =parousia. doctrine= see=1uggling With Words=+ Gerald o' the oming Age+ p+ 7+ Lol.#+ Jctober >$3+ and =Why le't the 1eho0ah Witnesses= -2&resence2 or 2oming2+ lad !idings maga5ine+ 1une >$:3.

hristadelphianism o' od or ?en ##


34/41

7 CubNects -- !he mortal nations %hich sur0i0e the breakingin pieces o' the kingdoms o' men )@an. 3:77P &s. 3:$->Palso Qech. 7:$.

6 4a%s -- &s. 83P s. :#+ 7.

$ 4and -- !he nucleus in &alestine+ but e"tending o0er the%hole earth )?icah 7:P @an. 8:7.

B. Features o' the Dingdom

t %ill ha0e a distincti0e 1e%ish basis --

a t %ill be the =Dingdom o' srael restored= )Acts :$+ 8.

b !he capital %ill be 1erusalem+ the throne o' the greatDing

&A; 3$c !he center o' the Dingdom %ill be in &alestine )?icah

7:P &s. 83:+ but the reign o' the Ding %ill e"tend o0erthe %hole earth )@an. 8:7P see also ?t. $:

:#.

b e"tension o' the li'espan )s. $6:3

.

6 At the end o' the J


35/41

1. That Christadelphians pin great hopes on the Jews'returning to Dalestine" overlooking the fact that all these aregathering in unbelief merely for sel5sh considerations.

2. That what counts is not being a Jew according to the 6esh"

but according to the spirit. %7O+ this 0erseindicates the 1e%ish nature o' the kingdom and the

hristadelphianism o' od or ?en #6


36/41

literal return o' the 1e%ish king to reign on @a0id2sthrone )see 4uke :#6.

b. !he 1e% %ill be pri0ileged as subNects o' the Dingdom%hen the t%el0e apostles %ill tsit upon t%el0e thrones

Nudging the t%el0e tribes o' srael= )?t. >:3.c. !he 1e% is only temporarily blinded because =a dulling

o' sensibilities has happened in part to srael until the'ull number o' the people o' the nations has come in.=)Rom. :36. !o the 1e%s+ hrist impaled is a =cause 'orstumbling= ) or. :3#.

&A; 3

But this condition %ill change %hen hrist+ =the

deli0erer... %ill take their sins a%ay= )Rom. :38 andconclude %ith =the house o' 1udah= a =ne% co0enant.=!his %ill be accomplished by od =cleaning out there0olters and the transgressors=+ by passing srael=under the rod= );5. 3


37/41

What 0our $arlier Witnesses %aid

0our Witnesses %ay #oday

2We 9nd statements by both prophets and Apostles hichclearly indicatethat in the times o' restitution+ srael as a

nation %ill be 9rst among the nations to come into harmony%ith the ne% order o' things+ that the earthly 1erusalem %illbe built upon her o%n heaps+ and that their polity ill erestored as in the eginningunder princes or Nudges.=)s.:3$P &s. 76:$P 1er. #ethat the natural 1e%s %illne0er again be a chosen regathered people.=

4et od Be !rue+ p. 3.=srael is no% )>3 being regathered+ and is rebuilding

&alestine e"actly as 'oretold.=

Garp o' od p. 36$.

=!he regathering o' unbelie0ing natural sraelites to &alestinecannot be construed as 'ul9lment o' prophecies.=

4et od Be !rue+ p. 3.

&A; 3>

%!M$ @$%#'!"%

. it is your claim that =preaching in harmony %ith od2sre0ealed %ord= is that %hich pro0es you to be a minster )4etod Be !rue+ p. 337. Who then do %e take to be theminister+ your earlier %riters or those o' 4et od Be !rue

3. !%o o' your once prominent Witnesses declared that ,aturalsrael %ould be regathered in 'ul9lment o' Bible prophecy+but 'rom %hence comes this =more light= 'or you+ the third

%itness+ to declare that the regathering is only a =politicalhumanitarian gesture not o' od2s pro0ision according toprophecy= )4et od Be !rue+ pp. 3


38/41

A '"/'CA#'!" !& #-$ R$AB *8$-!A-)% W'#"$%%$%*

. ' the real %itnesses o' saiah are 1e%s+ then you are 'alse%itnesses not rightly di0iding the %ord+ and %hate0er 5eal

that you may ha0e is =not according to accurate kno%ledge=.!o play loose and 'ast %ith these Jld !estament passages byarbitrarily =spirituali5ing= is %resting scripture to one2s o%ndestruction )3 &et. #:$. Curely the only %orkable basis 'orinterpreting biblical prophecy is to take the passage literallythe %ay it reads unless internal inconsistencies orcontradictions result %hich pit scripture against scripture.

3. A pri5e e"ample o' your scripture %restings on the Euestiono' the 1e%s return to &alestine can be 'ound on page 3 o'

?ake Cure o' All !hings. Gere your anonymous %riter Euotes;5. 3:#


39/41

Kou claim to be ransomed by the esh o' hrist+ but the%itnesses o' this chapter are ransomed by the =price o';gypt= )0s. #.

3 J' the %itnesses in this chapter+ it is said+ -- =But you

ha0e not called e0en me+ < 1acob+ because you ha0egro%n %eary o' me+ < srael= )0s. #. Are you spiritual

1acob as %ell as spiritual srael

-- =Kou ha0e made me %eary %ith your errors= )0s. 37.' you are the =Cpiritual srael=+ then at %hat stage o'your de0elopment did you merit this description

--=With the 'at o' your sacri9ce you ha0e not saturatedme= )0s. 37. When did your organi5ation oHer animalsacri9ces

7. !he same chapter analysis sho%s the %itnesses o' 1er. #


40/41

name.= )0s. #>. od ga0e srael a bill o' di0orcement in 1er.#:.+ = sent her a%ay and proceeded to gi0e the certi9cateo' 'ull di0orce to her+= but od oHers mercy to her+ = shallnot stay resent'ul 'or time inde9nite+ only take note o' your

error+ 'or it is against 1eho0ah your od that you ha0etransgressed. %ill take you... %ill bring you to Qion ... they%ill 'eed you %ith kno%ledge and insight.= )0s. 3-6. odhas not cast a%ay his people )Rom. :. Ge %ill put hisla%s in their mind...and he %ill become their od+ and they%ill become his people )Geb. :


41/41

&A; #3

!his %as %ritten + D.1.

We %elcome discussion

R. W. Abel

Documents

god_or_men