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Interviews Paquito D’RiveraPaquito D’Rivera Jazz At Lincoln Center, Dec 31

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Dizzy’s Club, December 11

Frank FosterFrank Foster

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Jazz Inside Magazine

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November-December 2017 – Volume 8, Number 9

Cover Photo (and photo at right) of Larry McKenna

by Eric Nemeyer

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CONTENTSCONTENTS

CLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTSCLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTS 13 Calendar of Events, Concerts, Festi-

vals and Club Performances

18 Clubs & Venue Listings

FEATUREFEATURE 4 Larry McKenna

INTERVIEWSINTERVIEWS 20 Frank Foster 24 Ted Nash 28 Paquito D’Rivera

PHOTOSPHOTOS 27 Clark Terry 34 Dave Brubeck

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Larry McKennaLarry McKenna

Interview & Photos by Eric Nemeyer

JI: What inspired you to get into music?

LM: I started when I was about ten years old. I actually took guitar lessons for a little while. I guess I had an interest in music without even real-izing it. There used to be a TV show—and this is way back—it was Johnny Desmond. He was a big band singer. He had a TV show, and I think it was on three times a week. It might have only been for fifteen minutes each time. They didn’t have many programs on TV—I’m talking about 1950, or something like that. Tony Mottola was a guitar player on the show. Johnny Desmond would come out and he’d sing standard tunes. When I first heard that, I didn’t really know what they were doing, but it was something that interested me. I thought,

“Yeah, I want to play the guitar.” I approached my mother and said, “I want to play the guitar.” And I got a cheap guitar from the Sears cata-logue...seriously! And then I took lessons at Zapf’s Music Store in Philadelphia. The only thing was, the teacher I had, who played mandolin, and banjo, and guitar, wanted to teach me classical guitar. After a while, I couldn’t remember why I had got-ten interested in it to begin with, because the les-sons were boring, and I wasn’t able to play any tunes. I finally quit. I wandered for a little bit. Then I had heard some records of Jazz At The Philhar-monic, with Illinois Jacquet, Flip Phillips, Howard McGee, and guys like that. That was where I really got interested. I didn’t really know what it was. It was just music that I had never heard before. I immediately was drawn toward the two saxophone players, Jacquet and Phillips. Then I went through

the whole thing again: Now I’m going to be a saxo-phone player. At school, I asked if I could get into the band because they would give me an instrument and teach me how to play it. The first thing they gave me was a clarinet because they didn’t have any saxophones left. They gave me the clarinet and said that it would be an easy switch for me to go over to saxophone.

JI: That was in the Philadelphia school system?

LM: At first, I went to LaSalle High School. I joined the marching band. They put you in the marching band right away, without learning how to play, because they wanted to have a whole bunch of kids on the football field to make it look impres-sive. They actually gave me a clarinet and a uni-

(Continued on page 6)




form. I learned how to play the melodies to the marches by ear because I couldn’t really read the stuff. I listened to what was going on, and I’d hear whatever seemed like the trumpets were playing—the melody. I would kind of fake that on the clari-net. I was fourteen years old by that time, but it

was my first year of actually playing. I discovered then that I was able to play somewhat by ear, and then, gradually, I taught myself how to read the music.

JI: In high school, the kinds of programs prolifer-ating today did not exist then.

LM: They did have you assigned for lessons. What I had was a group lesson. They told me, for in-stance, “Every Tuesday after school, you’re going to have a lesson with this guy.” There were maybe four kids, but they had all been playing for a while. This teacher was convinced that I would never be able to play. He said to me, “You can’t get blood from a stone. You’ll never be able to play.” So I stopped showing up for the lessons. I think he was happy because he never recorded that I wasn’t showing up for the lessons. He just let it slide. Luckily, I didn’t believe him when he told me that I’d “never be able to play”, and “you can’t get blood from a stone,” and all that. I kind of let that fly by me. I pretty much started to do it on my own. JI: How did you begin making the transition from marching band to jazz?

LM: Okay, well, what happened was, I really did-n’t want to play the clarinet. I wanted to play the saxophone. I did get a saxophone because at this point, my mother could see that I was really inter-ested in it. So my parents bought me a saxophone. By this time, I was starting to get a pretty good collection of recordings—not just saxophone play-ers, but all of the stuff. I was listening to Bird, and Lester Young, and Stan Getz, Dizzy Gillespie and other instrumentalists. Eventually, I transferred over to Olney High School. A kid in the band set me up with his teacher. I started taking lessons every week with a guy named Tony Bennett. He

had the same name as the famous vocalist: Antonio Benedetta. But he probably started to use that name before Tony Bennett was ever heard of. By this time I was already copying what I had heard on records. Not so much copying the licks, but more or less trying to play in the same style. I was imitat-ing the style of what I heard, trying to get the kind of sounds that the saxophone players got—and then maybe stealing a lick here and there. But more or less just trying to internalize, assimilate, all the things that I heard. I was able to do it really suc-cessfully if they weren’t really difficult tunes—

tunes that I wouldn’t have been able to play the bridge to such as “Have You Met Miss Jones,” or “Cherokee.” I didn’t understand anything about chord changes. I was just playing everything by ear. Then, when I went to this teacher—one of the few teachers at that time who taught saxophone and all about chords. Most of the guys who taught at that time taught you about sound, how to read, and all that. But he said, “No. You have to learn chords.” I was always grateful that I had got him for that reason. I was kind of able to put what I was doing naturally with the knowledge that I was get-ting from the chords. I’d say, “Oh, that’s what this is. That’s why this sounds like that: because it’s based on a certain kind of chord.” I started to put two and two together.

JI: So that bridged the gap from the theory to the practical application. And then from there you must have begun playing around town, playing different jobs with jazz players?

LM: Right. Well, Mike Natale [trumpet] and I were both in All-City High School Band, along with Lee Morgan. Mike and I became friends. He had already started to get some gigs in South Philly, playing weddings. I started to play with him, and I would go down to his house in South Philly and kind of just jam and play tunes. It was a really good experience because we had to learn tunes for the gigs. We didn’t use any music. The kind of tunes we were playing would be “I’m In The Mood For Love,” some jazz hits that we had heard on records, and stuff like that. In the mean-time, I was still taking lessons and I was starting to play some more difficult tunes. I was starting to understand “2-5-1” chord progressions. We would go to different jazz clubs in Philly—like the Show-boat. There was a DJ from Camden named Tommy Roberts who eventually became a big time an-

nouncer for horse racing. At the time, he was a young guy and had a jazz show on the radio...a half hour. He got this thing down on Broad Street called the “Jazz Workshop.” Somehow he was able to talk all these big name jazz players, when they came to town on Friday afternoons, to play at this place so that the kids could go to hear it. On Friday after-noon after school we would take the subway down-town. It cost fifty cents. We’d go in, and they’d have Clifford Brown, Buddy DeFranco, Art Bla-key. All these guys came and played. They’d play a set, and then they would get the kids up to play. These guys would critique you and then they would give you some pointers. Then they’d go back and play. It was a good thing for half a buck. I saw so many people there. Erroll Garner, Bird. I got to meet Bird there. He showed up after the whole thing was over, and I got to meet him.

JI: How do you account for him showing up after it was over? I mean, he was booked for the gig, he didn’t show up on time. Is that normal?

LM: You don’t want to hear the whole story.

JI: Go ahead.

LM: What happened was that Tommy Roberts, who ran the thing, needed a couple guys to set up the chairs in the place. You had to go upstairs, and bring these chairs down, and set them up. After this thing was over you’d pull them up and take them back upstairs again. If you did that, you got in for free—you didn’t have to pay the fifty cents. My buddy and I wanted to be the guys to do it—not to save the fifty cents, but we thought that would make us, like, the “in” cats. “Oh hey, Tommy asked us to do this. We set up the chairs.” That kind of thing. One day, Bird [Charlie Parker] was supposed to be there, and Chet Baker was supposed to be there. Chet Baker showed up, and Bird didn’t. After everybody split, we were taking the chairs back up. I took two chairs up, and as I was coming down the steps I saw Bird walk in. He was with this other guy, and I said, “Wow.” He was very nice. He wanted to be shown which room he was supposed to play in. By this time, that room was closed up. It was dark. So we said, “Well, you know. It’s over. You missed it.” And he said, “Which room was I supposed to play in? I want you to take me there.” So we took him over and walked him into the room. And he said, “Now, you tell the guy I was here.” And that made it all right. [chuckles]. But he was real nice. He hung out with us for about fifteen minutes and then he split. But anyway, I started to learn a lot of stuff from going to things like that.

JI: Did they have big attendance at that event?

LM: Maybe a hundred.

JI: Things were beginning to happen for you?

LM: It was happening as far as getting to meet guys to play with, and getting to understand a lot more about the music, by seeing all the guys who came in. I would go to concerts and exchange ideas with the different people I met.

JI: Around 1960 you had a break with Woody Herman. Was there something that preceded that?

(Continued from page 4)


Larry McKenna

“This teacher was convinced that I

would never be able to play. He said to me, ‘You can’t get blood from a stone. You’ll never be able to play.’ … I kind

of let that fly by me. I pretty much started to do it on my own.”


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Some memorable event?

LM: I had been with Vince Montana (vibist). I went on the road with him in 1955 and that was sort of like a commercial lounge group. I did that for almost a year. We would go to Scranton for a week and play—and you had to play Rhythm and Blues, and popular tunes. Then you’d try to sneak a

couple jazz things in. It was around the time when Elvis came on the scene. People started expecting “Don’t Step On My Blue Suede Shoes.” We had two tenors in the group and we’d play some house rocking stuff. We had to walk the bar. I did that for a while, but then I came back and played all differ-ent kind of gigs. Once in a while getting to play with a Big Band, getting to play in a wedding, play someplace for three nights. I was playing all the time and jamming with different guys. Then, in 1959, Jimmy Amadie happened to be up in New York. He was walking down the street, and he heard a band play. He went into the building and upstairs and there’s Woody Herman’s band. They were auditioning guys. It was a rehearsal, but they were, at the same time, auditioning people. Jimmy came home and he called me. He said, “They need a saxophone and a piano. Let’s go up to New York tomorrow and we’ll audition.” I said, “Look, by tomorrow, they probably already will have the guys.” “Well, if they do, they do. At least we’ll

hang out in New York and have some fun.” So we went up and auditioned, and we got the gig. The following Sunday, we were on the road. JI: How long did you stay with the band?

LM: We went out on a tour that lasted a couple of months. We didn’t have a night off. Every night we played in a different town. Around Christmas, Woody broke up the band for a while. He liked to go home for Christmas. Around the middle of Jan-uary, he started up the band again. Jimmy didn’t go. He was tired of it by that point. I stayed for another few months. All told, it was six months or

so. Then I came back here.

JI: Then you came back here, and you have spent most of your career in Philadelphia. Given your superb work as a jazz soloist on tenor sax, and your doubling on woodwinds, was there a reason that you elected to stay in Philadelphia?

LM: At one point I was thinking about moving to New York. Everybody said, “Oh yeah. If you want to make a name for yourself you have to go to New York, or Los Angeles maybe.” A friend of mine who wasn’t a musician wanted to go to New York for some reason. I can’t really remember. We were going to go to New York and share an apartment. I was going to try to make it in music, and he was going to do whatever he did. We went up one day looking for an apartment. I had been to New York before, but it was always just going up there and coming home. We spent the whole day going around New York looking for apartments. At some point in the day, I said, “You know, I don’t think I want to live here.” I really didn’t want to be there. The next day I called and said, “I think I’m gonna stay here for a while. I really don’t have eyes to go up there.” He got bugged at me. He went, and I never saw him again. I didn’t really feel that I wanted to go there.

JI: For a while, though, in the fifties and sixties, there were some studio opportunities for musicians in Philadelphia here—WCAU (part of CBS) had a thing downtown, the Mike Douglas Show was going on downtown.

LM: No. I think the studio thing—what you’re talking about—WCAU and all, I think that actually had ended a little bit before then. The Mike Doug-las Show came along, and they held auditions for that. I didn’t even go because I really wasn’t that good at doubling [on woodwinds - flute, clarinet]. I was told that you had to be a really good doubler, playing flute and clarinet. Vince Trombetta got the gig, and, actually, he was the best guy for it. Vince was a great player—is! And also, a good doubler. He knew a lot of tunes, and had a great ear. You had to fake a lot of stuff. You know, singers would come in, and they’d say, “We’re gonna do “All of Me” in A-flat.” From what I understand, Vince was a pretty big help. People asked me, “How come you didn’t get that gig?” I always felt that it worked out just the way it should have. I used to do some subbing on that show. Sometimes they would have guys perform a big band group—Tony Ben-nett, when he came in. Once or twice, Vince took off, and I filled in for him. But that wasn’t the rea-son that I stayed. After that New York thing, I wanted to go to Los Angeles—and I did.

JI: When was that?

LM: 1961. I went out there totally unprepared. I didn’t know anybody. I just went there. Somehow, I thought, “Oh, well, as soon as people hear me play…” It wasn’t any kind of ego thing; but I fig-ured I was good enough that I’d start getting some gigs. But it didn’t happen. I got to play some re-hearsal bands, but I just never hooked up with any-thing while I was there. I stayed out there for eight or nine months. Then I came back here again, and I joined George Young’s band. He had a gig in Wildwood for the summer. I joined his band and stayed in Wildwood, and then we went to Vegas for a couple months. After that, I didn’t know where I wanted to go. I was thinking about going back to L.A. again. I didn’t.

JI: How were you continuing to pursue your devel-opment as a player?

LM: When I came off of Woody’s band, I got interested in learning how to arrange. I wanted to learn how to write for big band. I went and I took some lessons with Dennis Sandole. I didn’t take his improvisation course. I just wanted him to show me how to orchestrate. I studied with him for while. He was showing me how to do that. He had a lab band, and I was doing a lot of that kind of stuff. In the mean time, as far as blowing things, I’ve always had kind of an analytical mind. I was always taking tunes and dissecting them, and trying to learn to play them on the piano. I was trying to substitute chords, and figure out why every chord was there—what the purpose was, why is this chord going to this one? What can you do instead? What kind of scale? That sort of thing.

JI: It sounds like a lot of your knowledge of theory and harmony you developed on your own, as op-posed to having a teacher who might have imposed his or her method on you.

LM: Like I said, the first teacher I had, he told me I had to learn the chords. I had this Bugs Bower chord book. Thing is though, he made me memo-rize it. “You have this page of dominant 7 chords.” When I’d come back the next week, he’d ask me to play them, close up the book. And if I couldn’t do


“In times of change, the learners shall inherit the earth, while the learned find

themselves beautifully equipped to succeed in a world that

no longer exists.” — Eric Hoffer, American Philosopher

Larry McKenna

“The Mike Douglas Show came along, and they held auditions for that. I didn’t

even go because I really wasn’t that good at doubling [on woodwinds - flute, clarinet]. I was told that you had to be a really good doubler, playing flute and clarinet. Vince Trombetta got the gig,

and, actually, he was the best guy for it.”


it, he’d say, “Well, you have that again this week.” He’d say, “You have to learn these chords.” He didn’t really have to twist my arm. I understood. I was interested in doing it. He didn’t show me, “Well, this is a 2-5-1,” or, “This chord will lead to that.” He basically just showed me that you had to learn these. He was showing me how, in a simpli-fied way, you could improvise over a chord. What he was showing me was more basic than what I was already doing on my own. But it led me to see that what I was doing by ear, was still based on this harmonic system. I remember one example he gave me. He took the tune “Exactly Like You” in C, he’d take (hums tune) and then it’s just a C6 chord. Then he’d have me arpeggiate the chord—to fill in the two beats that were rests (hums tune). You know, I had been doing stuff more complicated than that, but it made me see, “Oh, okay! That’s what this is.” Then I was able to take it a step fur-ther than that. At least it got me thinking more. It made me realize too why I was having trouble with tunes like “All The Things You Are,” and where to change keys, and all the things like that. I started to say, “Oh, okay, I’ll be able to learn those tunes now because I can see why I haven’t been able to depend on my ear to take me there. So I continued to do that stuff.

JI: Were you transcribing solos?

LM: No. I never did that. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t. I just never did it. Like, I said, when I used to listen to the recordings, I’d pretty much try to get the concept, rather than saying, “Well, let me transcribe the whole solo and learn how to play it.” I really think that’s good.

JI: Were there players that you wanted to play with?

LM: Do you mean necessarily well-known people?

JI: For example, did you want to have an appren-ticeship with Miles Davis’s group, or something like that?

LM: No. I don’t think so. I mean, there were the people that I admired…

JI: Were you more interested in big band work?

LM: You had a better chance of getting in with a

big band. You weren’t just going to go into Miles Davis’s group. If you think of who the top groups were in those days, you didn’t look at the group and think, “Maybe I’ll replace Paul Desmond.” Those groups were pretty much what they were. I would have loved to play with Oscar Peterson’s rhythm section with Ray Brown on bass.

JI: And Ed Thigpen.

LM: Yeah. But even without the drums— with Herb Ellis [guitar]. It wasn’t like I had designs on how I would go about doing that. It was a day dream. You’d say, “Wow. I’d love to play with that group sometime.” I’ll tell you one thing, right now (and I’m jumping ahead) when I get to play with Tony Miceli (and there’s a lot of guys in Philly) I’m just as happy as I think I could be. Only in the last few years have I been getting the chance to really play with really top cats. Even though we had really good players back in those days, it was hard to get the kind of gig where you got a chance to play. Talking about the late 50’s and 60’s, it was hard to get gigs. I was playing in big bands, but I was also getting these gigs in bars. Sometimes you’d have a bad bass player, or a singing bass player. They would hire a cat if he could sing, and it didn’t matter if he could play the bass well. You got a singer and a bass player for the price of one. I think you know a little bit about that—you’re younger than I am.

JI: Back in 1977, I remember playing a trio gig like that briefly. The singing bass layer played melody notes, as opposed to bass notes, on bass. Luckily, I was playing drums on that gig!

LM: I used to play with a bass player who did the same thing. He had a good ear for it. I used to say, “Man, he would have made a hell of a horn play-er!” Because he could hear the melody so well. Guys would sing and they’d stay on the rhythm. Now, we’ve been getting these gigs around town where we go out and play some of these parties, and sometimes corporate things. People just want you to play jazz. It’s not that they’re a jazz audi-ence, but they say, “Well, let’s hire a jazz group.” Tony and I, we’ve been doing some of them. I do some with some other people. To me, it’s a real gig. The rhythm sections are always good. We have a stable of players now. There’s a bunch of good bass players in town now. A lot of these young guys really can play. If you remember back in the days...

JI: There were certain limitations.

LM: There were a couple guys about whom you’d say, “Man, those guys play the right notes.” The first time I ever played with Steve Gilmore, I said, “Man, it was such a pleasure to hear the right notes all night.” He said, “Well, isn’t that what you’re supposed to do?” I said “You haven’t met some of the cats I’ve been playing with!”

JI: How does the rhythm section help you to ex-press yourself? How does that help you in your improvisation?

LM: I think with each different rhythm section you play a little bit differently. If I’m playing with three guys, whoever they might be…I don’t think that I’m saying, “Well, let’s see. I’ve got these three guys tonight, so I’ll probably play...” But then you might find, with someone else, that you might be playing a little bit differently. I might be inspired to play in a certain way because of the way the other guys play. I think that’s good because one of my concepts about playing is that I don’t try to play always in the same way. For me it’s kind of fun to go along with the way different people play, rather than just saying, “This is the way I play so every-body just better follow me.” I might be influenced by the way somebody else is doing something. It will just happen that way that I will just end up sounding like they do.

JI: Tony, could you talk about Larry’s contribu-tions and how he is an important influence in Phila-delphia.

TM: I guess it was 1981 or 1982, I had improvisa-tion class at the University of the Arts. It would be at 8:30 or 9:00 in the morning. It was really early. I just remember having that class with Larry. Any-body that knows him, knows that he’s totally down to earth—totally unpretentious. He would come in, and we’d have these tunes to play. He would just look at all the instruments in the room and just write out parts for everybody. It was “Girl From Ipanema” I remember one time. He wrote out the tunes for us. We would go hear him play and he’d be playing the stuff he’d covered with us. I guess, because he had been playing it anyway. But he’d play something and look out at us. LM: Sometimes I would be able to do that. If I had



“You had a better chance of getting in with a big band. You weren’t just going to go into Miles Davis’s

group. If you think of who the top groups were in those days, you didn’t look at the [Dave Brubeck]

group and think, ‘Maybe I’ll replace Paul Desmond.’”


given them a certain thing that I wanted them to learn, and then if I’d see some of them in the audi-ence I would deliberately play it to see if they’d recognize it—and sometimes you’d look out and it would just go right by. TM: I hope I looked. LM: I’m surprised you said that though. I didn’t know if anybody would remember that. TM: That was one of the fun things about it. Now, if you play with him (because he’s such a quote-meister—you do your little quote, think you’re kinda hip), he’ll tear the tune apart. But sometimes, he’ll quote something and look around, and I don’t know what it is. But I know that he’s quoting something cool. I’ll try to smile and fake it—try to figure out what’s happening. But he was such a great educator. He was so honest with us, and he

would talk. I remember talking about money with him—all aspects of the business. And there’s a whole bunch of great players that came through University of the Arts, that came through him. He’s just kind of our mentor. We all talk about him—sort of worship him in a way. When we’re all to-gether, one of the topics we’ll talk about is Larry and how helpful he was. There’s stuff on the web-site (Larry’s Improv Page) where you can see how right to the point he is. That was the best thing about his teaching. You’d take all these courses and things that were so confusing. Larry would say, “It’s this!” And like, “Ohhhhh.” I remember so many times just going, “Oh, damn, that’s what it is!” So that was important for us. We would all follow him around. A lot of students would come out. I still do some of that. I have this one student, a dentist, and he’s the same age as me. He played saxophone all these years and about four years ago, he decided he wanted to get more serious about it—not that he’s going to go into the music busi-ness. But he said, after all these years, I decided I’d like to really know more about what it is. So he comes every Friday for class and then he comes out

there on Friday night to hear us play. So I’ll re-member some of the stuff, I’ll just play it, and I’ll look to see if he gets it. JI: I asked Frank Tiberi if he still gets anxious when he plays? He said, no, not really, but when that red light comes on, and he’s recording with Woody’s band, and it’s going to be etched in stone for eternity, he gets a little anxious. How do you feel about that? LM: I don’t usually get nervous when I play. There have been times. When I used to have to play a show and there would be a clarinet part where you are exposed. I would think, “Oh here that comes.” That kind of thing. Playing jazz—I never feel that way. I think I’m pretty confident that I’m not going to screw it up. I’ve done proba-bly more recording in the last three years, then I ever did — because, you know, everybody’s mak-ing CD’s now. All these vocalists are calling me. I’ve pretty much gotten to the point where I go into the recording studio and I’m pretty much as relaxed as I would be if I’m playing in a club. I did a record with Jim Shade, a guy who I played with a lot—

very good drummer. He’s on my CD, but we did a CD with somebody else. Afterwards, he said to me, when you do your thing, it’s just like as if you were playing down at Chris’s [jazz club in Philadelphia]. And I said, “what about it?” He said, “well, I can’t do that, I still get nervous.” But he’s a lot younger. And I said, “I couldn’t tell you were nervous, you sounded great to me.” He said, “yeah but I am. When do you get over that?” I don’t know. I mean, I don’t like to think about it. I’m not saying that would never happen. If somebody put me in that situation, and said you are going to have to do this, I might get to the point where I feel “whoa, this is pretty important.” JI: If you have to read something note for note, I can understand it. But when you’re playing jazz, you get to the point where it’s conversation. You have your vocabulary. You get to speak extempo-raneously in music, in the way we’re speaking here. Self-consciousness can be the enemy of crea-tivity—especially when we’re so concerned what people think about us. Then you can’t let yourself go and immerse yourself in the music.

LM: Sure. As far as recording goes now, you can always do it over again. But you don’t want to just go in there with the idea of enough confidence, that I’m not going to screw it up. That’s not good enough, really. You don’t want to just say I know I can do it without making any mistakes. You have to have a certain amount of that to back you up. But you still want to make it better than that. You want to have enough of an edge to say I really want to do this better than just what I’m capable of—but with the understanding that if you have to, you will at least only fall back to the level of “I know I’m not going to screw it up.” JI: How do our experiences influence our music, and how have your experiences impacted your music? LM: Everything that we do is influenced by what we’ve lived through. Do I think that I would play differently if somehow or another my life had been different? Probably. Would it be that much differ-ent? I don’t really know. But I think all that stuff happens without you realizing that it’s happening so you don’t say, “ah, today this happened so that’s

going to make me…” It’s a gradual process. I’m sure I can get real sentimental about music. I can get nostalgic about music and hear some old song that will really affect me emotionally. I think that really influences my playing. I can also laugh at certain things about music. I think all that comes into play. I would never want to get to the point where I get so analytical about music that that is the beginning and the end of it. After it’s all said and done, I still like to play the tune. I think a lot of that comes from all the stuff that has happened to me in my life. JI: How did you develop your skills as an arrang-er? LM: One of the things I did early on, was to get the Russell Garcia arranging book. I went out and bought that book, around 1960—probably right around the time I started studying with Dennis Sandoli. You took some lessons with him, right? JI: No.


Larry McKenna

“As far as recording goes now, you can always do it over again. But you don’t want to just go in there with the idea of enough confidence, that I’m not going to screw it up. That’s not good enough, really. You don’t want to just say I know I can do it without making any mistakes. You have to have a certain

amount of that to back you up. But you still want to make it better than that. You want to have enough of an edge to say I

really want to do this better than just what I’m capable of.”


LM: Well, anyway, Dennis was a great guy, and he taught a lot of people in Philly. Anyone who played jazz around Philadelphia, and is my age, eventually took some lessons with Dennis. I also knew his brother, Adolph. I played with his band. When I went to Dennis to learn, he did for me in the begin-

ning exactly what I wanted. I knew changes. So I didn’t feel as though I needed to take his improvi-sation lessons. Maybe that was smug of me to say that. But I pretty much didn’t know how to put anything down in orchestration. I was always good at if I had an idea in my head. I could write out single lines. I could sit down and write out tunes, but I didn’t know what to do with the instruments. So I went to Dennis. He started me right off the first week. I had originally gone to someone else, but the other teacher wanted to put me through the whole thing of learning about traditional harmony over again. I said, “no I just want to learn how to make a tune, and where do I put the trumpet, and so on?” This one teacher I had said, “no, no, you have to go back and figure bass…” In the first les-son with Dennis, he said, “we’re having a small group here, trumpet, alto, tenor, trombone and baritone sax, five horns. We’ll put the trumpet on top.” He showed me how to voice it. So by the end of the first week, I wrote sixteen bars of “Laura.” It sounded neat because I wrote it in four-part block harmony, with the baritone sax doubling. I had some guys play it, and to hear it, I said “wow, man that sounds like Shorty Rogers.” It had that sound. And that inspired me to be able to do it more. And that was within one lesson. One time, I asked him to show me how to write the voicing for a certain thing I heard on a record. He said “no, you should-n’t copy anybody.” He said, “I’m trying to make you into a master musician.” That was one of his favourite things, “master musician” and “I’m not interested in teaching mundane things.” I asked him, how do you get the sound for the [Woody Herman Big Band] ‘Four Brothers’ saxophone section?.” He said, “if you wish to learn that, go buy a book or something, don’t waste my time.”

JI: And what book would that have been? LM: I don’t know. He thought that why bother learning some technique that was used by someone else, when you should be learning your own thing. I can understand that. But from my point of view, it was like, I wanted to learn all the things—so I knew how to do it all. JI: Right. So you would be able to understand the lineage of the music and how it’s developed.

LM: Right. He didn’t subscribe to that kind of thinking. So about that time I started buying some books too. I got that Garcia book, and the next one I got was Henry Mancini, Sounds and Scores. That was one of the first books to come out with record-ings. It included recordings of eight and sixteen bar excerpts of his arrangements. You could see how he scored the trombones and the French Horns and so on. JI: That’s what the Don Sebesky’s arranging book was like too when it was published in the 1970s. LM: Mancini’s book came out in 1962 I think, I still have all these books and I still use them as reference. I eventually wound up getting, Nelson Riddle’s book. I have Sebesky’s book, a couple of other ones. It’s funny because sometimes those guys disagree with one another. It will say some-thing in one of the books— “never do this.” Then you’ll open another and it says exactly the opposite in there. JI: There are a number of bootleg arranging books too. One of them has examples of all the different styles of big band arranging, with examples from the works of many different arrangers—from Woody Herman’s band, Basie’s band, Ellington, examples of Willie Maiden’s music from Maynard Ferguson’s band, and others. LM: Do you arrange? JI: Yes. I began writing big band arrangements in the 1970s, after being inspired by Thad Jones and Ellington, and buying and analyzing all of the Thad

Jones scores and others that I could get. And, I’ve arranged a lot of small group and big band charts over the years. I’m working on a big band pro-ject—writing new things for a recording next year. A number of years ago, you played a number of times with the big band I organized in Philadelphia on and off for a while. TM: Did you play at the London, downtown? JI: Yes. I was actually publishing big band ar-rangements for awhile. But, the financial benefits were so limited, and the work was overwhelming. Pretty soon, I was promoting everyone else’s ar-rangements but my own. We would record an al-bum full of material of the various arrangers, and send the LP out to 30,000 schools—who would then order the charts from their music stores or directly from us. The place to invest one’s efforts is to have your own tunes played, recorded and placed on TV, in movies, and getting other people to record them. One of the problems with the big band was last minute cancellations by players. You’d have trombone players, for example. At the last minute, someone would call and say, I can’t make it now. Then you’d have to call somebody else—because in Philadelphia, many players did not follow the protocol of getting their own subs—as is the case in places like New York or L.A. where the overall level of good musicianship is more prolific, and there is more competition. Plus, you’d get some attitude from someone you might call to sub in Philadelphia. The sub would say, “hey man, how come you didn’t call me in the first place? Then all of a sudden, I’m in the middle of some political thing—and it was just a Monday night kicks band. I got tired of that. Plus, while the big band gave me an outlet for my arrangements, it had its limitations for me as an improviser, as com-pared to playing with a small group. LM: I was telling Tony before, that I still write arrangements for big band, but lately I’ve been doing it just for my own amusement. JI: Where’s the outlet? At school, right? LM: Well, I don’t plan ahead to do it. I’ll be sitting at home and I’ll get an idea for something and I’ll get out my score paper. I haven’t learned to do it yet using a computer. I just do it the old-fashioned way. But I’m too lazy to copy them. So I have scores at home that I keep saying, “well one of these days I’ll get them copied and bring them around to play. I never made any real money from arranging. Yeah I got paid. Years ago there used to be work doing it for singers. That was always a pain in the ass. They’d go, “Oh, I changed my mind, I want it in another key…” Guys would say, “I need an arrangement for my big band, can you do it for twenty-five bucks?” I would always wind up doing it. One saxophone player who I used to work with in Al Raymond’s band said, “there must be a place in heaven just for arrangers where they have a big band set up, where they actually play your charts at the right tempo, and get it right each time.” It was always the case, when you write ar-rangements, that something went wrong. John Da-vis was an arranger and sax player. He went to University of the Arts back when they called it Philadelphia Musical Academy. He eventually



Larry McKenna

“‘You got to leave town and go to some small town in Kansas, and you’ll hear somebody

better than anybody you’ve heard before.’ ... just when you think you’re on top, there is

always somebody out there—and that person is not necessarily some big name guy. So I don’t know how anybody can justifiably develop the

kind of attitude that enables them to think, I really do deserve all this attention.”


became a big time arranger in Hollywood. He was arranging for TV shows like Hunter, Heart to Heart, Falcon Crest and all that. Apparently, he made lot of money. From what I was told he was getting like twenty-five grand per episode. He would do it at his house on the computer, and they’d send someone around to pick it up. But any-way, at the point he had just gotten out of school, he was playing sax, and we were both working with Al Raymond. I got this connection to write the music for a show. The guy that was supposed to do it was the conductor for Ann Margaret, who was appearing at the Latin Casino [a leading night club in the Philadelphia area—Cherry Hill, New Jer-sey— that featured celebrity entertainers]. He had promised somebody he was going to write the charts for this show that was going on a cruise or something like that, and he hadn’t done it. So he called Ronnie Rubin, who said, “call Larry McKenna.” The guy called me. He had a ton of work, for two horns and a rhythm section—it seemed like a million songs. I said, “well I can’t do this in a weekend.” But, it had to be done by Sun-day, and we all had gigs. I called John Davis. John Davis and I met the guy. I was going to charge him six hundred dollars. This is thirty years ago. The guy agreed to it. JI: Because he was getting probably six thousand. LM: John says to me, “Wow, you’ve got a lot of balls.” And I said, “I don’t care man.” We still had to get someone to copy it. So the whole weekend, between gigs, we were up writing all this stuff out. We finally get Jack Faith to copy it. Nothing ever ruffles him. He showed up on the last day, and the guy who hired us is sweating. He wanted to make sure it was all done because they were leaving for the cruise the next day. Jack came in with piles of music. We were waiting for our six hundred dol-lars. Then Jack took out a bill—an itemized bill. It was more than what we charged to write the charts. He handed it to the guy, and the guy said, “Oh, okay,” and wrote him a check—for more than what we got paid. That was the whole thing about ar-ranging. I think unless you make it in the big time, arranging should be just for fun. JI: It’s very time consuming. It does help your playing a lot. Could you talk about the importance of being a sensitive listener when you’re playing? LM: It goes back to what I said before. If I’m play-ing with certain guys I’ll be influenced by what they are playing rather than just going straight ahead and saying this is how I play. You have to adapt your playing. JI: I think that speaks to having a dialogue with the musicians with whom you are playing. This is in contrast to certain people who go in and simply play their style, expecting everyone to adjust to them. I was listening to a Miles Davis recording from 1960, where he had Sonny Stitt in the group for a European tour. Everyone sounds great. Sonny Stitt sounds great—and he is playing Sonny Stitt. He is not necessarily fitting into the group by par-

ticipating in and developing a kind of dialogue among players for which Miles’ groups were re-nowned. Instead he was playing his stuff, and the group is accompanying him. By comparison, when Hank Mobley joined the group in 1961, there is a dialogue that you can hear emerging between pia-nist Wynton Kelly and Mobley on Friday Night Live At The Blackhawk, for example. They are feeding off one another. Tony: With Larry, there’s a dialogue. He knows the tunes so well. When you are comping for him, he’s just writing your stuff. If you alter something, he’s right there, and he’s fixed my chords. If I play a dominant chord and it’s supposed to be a minor chord, every time you get there, he’ll adjust. At first, he’ll look over and I’ll wonder what he’s doing. Then, I realize “oh, he’s fixing my chords, while we’re playing.” He’s right in there. LM: In other words, I’m a pain in the ass. JI: What kinds of business experience have you developed in your career? LM: Obviously not enough. I’ve never been a good businessman. That’s number one. I envy peo-ple who are. I see certain people that seem to have certain things more together. I think I’ve always been just lazy. I just wanted to play. It’s been im-portant to me feel that I am doing good at the job of playing music. I would have hated to go with the band, if I was feeling like I was one of the lesser players. So I focused on trying to be a good musi-cian. As far as attitudes go, I don’t know, I’ve al-ways been pretty cool about knowing how to deal with people on that human level. I see some guys who have never learned how to get along with other people—even just with their fellow musi-cians. They just don’t seem to know. I think that’s something you try to be sensitive about it. The whole thing is, no matter how good you are, you’ll always find somebody who’s better. Buddy Savitt was one of the top tenor sax players in the area. I met him on a trolley car, one time and said “Hey, Buddy how you doing?” I was much younger, and I said, “Hey, Buddy, who are some of your favourite players?” Buddy had a funny way of talking. He said, “You got to leave town and go to some small town in Kansas, and you’ll hear somebody better than anybody you’ve heard before.” He said just when you think you’re on top, there is always somebody out there—and that person is not neces-sarily some big name guy. So I don’t know how anybody can justifiably develop the kind of attitude that enables them to think, “I really do deserve all this attention.” But there are people out there. JI: I think that once you reach a certain level as a player, the focus is logically about making music, and not about speed and technique and who is bet-ter. Everybody is different. So Stan Getz, Sonny Rollins, Hank Mobley, Joe Henderson, John Col-trane are all different—different voices. LM: Well, I definitely think that. You can make comparisons to people as far as technique goes and things like that, but there is so much more about music than that. JI: It’s all about the groove.

LM: Yeah, so, when you get up to that level, the guys you just mentioned, they’ve all reached a certain level of greatness. JI: It’s content. Somebody can be a really articu-late speaker but have nothing to say. Someone might earn a doctorate in English Literature, and can write Shakespeare, and can cite and recite books, and poetry. But, if this person has never lived any life to be able to write the great novel he wants to write, then what. On the other hand, some-body else might have lived a lot of life, but might be grammatically imperfect. Whose story do you want to hear—the grammatically perfect, dull, content-less one, or the imperfectly stated content-rich, meaningful story? LM: Or are you going to compare Sinatra and Pavarotti, who’s the better singer? JI: Did you have anything that you want to talk about that we haven’t brought up?

LM: I’m saving them for the book. [laughs] No, I can’t. I have plenty of funny stories. They’re usual-ly told on the breaks between sets at gigs. JI: I know, I’ve heard some. LM: But I have more since then. JI: Tony, why don’t you talk a bit about the web-site you’ve created, dedicated to Larry, called Lar-ry’s Improv Page? TM: Okay, I made it in dedication of Larry. I thought of the website because I remembered Da-vid Liebman talking about his music. He said that the only way he was going to get people to appreci-ate his music was to teach them about it. That’s how he has kind of spent his life. At that point I started thinking about doing some kind of website. I like doing Web stuff. I like computers. So I thought about Larry, and how important he is and was to so many of us. I also realized that for a lot of us who aren’t well known, but are great players, that maybe strength in numbers could help us. So I designed the website and called Larry and I told him I wanted to do it in dedication to him. Guys would write to me thinking I was Larry, because it’s Larry’s Improv Page. There are a lot of lessons on it. I just want a way for musicians to connect with other musicians, especially young musicians. Larry’s spirit is teaching us, and plays a big part in it. LM: Right now I am a novice at the computer. I have a computer, right now. I just kind of put it off for a long time. I was intimidated. I didn’t even want to look at the computer. So now I have one. But basically what I’ve been doing, as I’ve always done for years, is to write out things—examples of how I approach improvisation. I’ve been giving them to Tony and he puts them on the website.


“Time makes heroes and dissolves celebrities.:

- Dan Boorstin, Past Librarian of Congress

Larry McKenna

13 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 November-December 2017 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com

Sunday, November 5 George Coleman Quintet, Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E.

27th.

Vocal Masterclass With Marion Cowings, Ai Murakami Trio Feat. Sacha Perry

Behn Gillece Quartet, Richie Vitale Quintet, Hillel Salem, After-Hours Jam Session, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

John Colianni Jazz Orchestra, Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Fred Hersch, Piano; John Hébert, Bass; Eric McPherson, Drums; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Dizzy Gillespie All-Stars, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Monday, November 6 Triangular: Ralph Peterson Trio Featuring The Curtis Brothers, Diz-

zy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center

Theo Hill Trio, Jonathan Michel Group & After-Hours Jam Session, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Tuesday, November 7 Triangular: Ralph Peterson Trio Featuring The Curtis Brothers, Diz-

zy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Frank Lacy Group, Abraham Burton Quartet & After-Hours Jam Session, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Django Reinhardt NY Festival All Stars, Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Ravi Coltrane, Saxophone Adam Rogers, Guitar Dezron Douglas, Bass E.J. Strickland, Drums; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Rebirth Brass Band, Residency, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, November 8 Israeli Jazz Celebration: 7:30pm—Guy Mintus Trio; 9:30pm—Yotam

Ben-Or Quartet, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Michael Zilber Quartet, Ryan Keberle & Catharsis, Aaron Seeber, After-Hours Jam Session, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Django Reinhardt NY Festival All Stars; David Ostwald's Louis Arm-strong Eternity Band; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Rebirth Brass Band, Residency, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, November 9 Leonard Bernstein At The Jazz At Lincoln Center Orchestra With

Wynton Marsalis Celebrates The Leonard Bernstein Centennial; Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Sullivan Fortner, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

New York Jazz Nine, Nick Hempton Trio, Jonathan Thomas, After-Hours Jam Session, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.



Talib Kweli – Live band residency: “Quality” album 15th Anniversary, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, November 10 Leonard Bernstein At The Jazz At Lincoln Center Orchestra With


Warren Wolf, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Tim Ries Quintet, The Flail, After-Hours Jam Session With Joe Farns-worth, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.



Talib Kweli – Live band residency: “Quality” album 15th Anniversary,

Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Saturday, November 11 Leonard Bernstein At The Jazz At Lincoln Center Orchestra With


Warren Wolf, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Jon Roche, The Flail, Philip Harper Quintet, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.


Bad Plus, Bill Frisell, Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.


Talib Kweli – Live band residency: “Quality” album 15th Anniversary, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Sunday, November 12 Warren Wolf, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Ai Murakami, Sasha Dobson, David Schnitter, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Django Reinhardt NY Festival All Stars; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Bad Plus, Bill Frisell, Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.


Monday, November 13 Neal Smith Berklee Octet Featuring Billy Pierce, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz

At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Tim Hegarty Group, Jonathan Barber Group & After-Hours Jam Session, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.


McCoy Tyner, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, November 14 Jerome Jennings Group Featuring Jazzmeia Horn, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz


Brian Blade, Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E. 27th.

Lucas Pino Nonet, Abraham Burton, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Diane Schuur, Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

John Zorn's Masada: Book Three, Masada At The Vanguard; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Stanley Clarke Band with Lenny White, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, November 15 Jerome Jennings Group Featuring Jazzmeia Horn, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz



Curtis Nowosad, Harold Mabern, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Diane Schuur; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

John Zorn's Masada: Book Three, Masada At The Vanguard, Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Stanley Clarke Band with Lenny White, Beka Gochiashvili, Salar Nadar, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, November 16 Embrace: A Musical Celebration Of Friends And Collaborators Of The

Incredible Honk, Roswell Rudd, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.


Alex Lore, Brandon Sanders, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Diane Schuur; Steve Sandberg Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Stanley Clarke, Lenny White, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.


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Friday, November 17 Bobby Sanabria Multiverse Big Band: West Side Story At 60 Reimag-

ined, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.


Michael Cochrane, John Fedchock, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Diane Schuur; Birdland Big Band; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.



Saturday, November 18 Bobby Sanabria Multiverse Big Band: West Side Story At 60 Reimag-

ined, Dizzy's Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.


Kristina Koller, Mike Clark Quartet, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Veronica Swift; Diane Schuur, Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.



Sunday, November 19 Bobby Sanabria Multiverse Big Band: West Side Story At 60 Reimag-

ined, Dizzy's Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.


Ai Murakami, Tardo Hammer, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.



Monday, November 20 Steve Nelson Salutes Bobby Hutcherson, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At

Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Ari Hoenig Trio, Jonathan Barber, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.



Marcus Strickland’s Twi-Life & Friends, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, November 21 Yotam Silberstein, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Maria Schneider Orch, Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E. 27th.

Steve Nelson Quintet, Abraham Burton Quartet & After-Hours Jam Session, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.


Jason Moran, Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Dee Dee Bridgewater, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, November 22 Wycliffe Gordon, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.


Taylor Eigsti, Asaf Yuria, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Louis Armstrong Eternity; Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.



Thursday, November 23 Wycliffe Gordon, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.

Taylor Eigsti, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.


Jason Moran, Piano; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.


Friday, November 24 Wycliffe Gordon, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.


Brandon Lee Quartet, Jerome Jennings Sextet, After-Hours Jam Session With Corey Wallace, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Veronica Swift With The Benny Green Trio; Birdland Big Band; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Jason Moran, Piano; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.


Saturday, November 25 Wycliffe Gordon, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.


Michael Stephans, Philip Harper Quintet, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Veronica Swift, Benny Green; Birdland Big Band; 315 W. 44th St.



Sunday, November 26 Wycliffe Gordon, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.


Marion Cowings, Ai Murakami, David Gibson, Small’s, 183 W. 10th



Monday, November 27 MSM Afro-Cuban Jazz Orchestra, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln

Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Stranahan/Zaleski/Rosato, Jonathan Michel, Small’s


McCoy Tyner, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, November 28 Dayna Stephens with Taylor Eigsti, Peter Bernstein, Ben Street, Billy

Hart, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Spike Wilner, Abraham Burton, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Marcus Roberts Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Terell Stafford, Trumpet; Tim Warfield, Saxophone; Bruce Barth, Piano; Peter Washington, Bass; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Fourplay, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, November 29 Dayna Stephens with Taylor Eigsti, Peter Bernstein, Ben Street, Billy

Hart, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Nate Radley, Steve Davis, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Marcus Roberts; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.



http://www.jazz.org/dizzys


http://www.jazzstandard.com


Thursday, November 30 David Chesky: Jazz In The New Harmonic, Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At

Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Hailey Niswanger, Steve Davis, Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Marcus Roberts Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.



Friday, December 1 Steve Miller, Jimmie Vaughan & Charlie Musselwhite: The Blues

Triangle Memphis, Texas, And Chicago And More; Rose Theater. Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Fabulous Dorsey Brothers With Peter And Will Anderson, Wycliffe Gordon, Brianna Thomas, Bruce Harris, And More; The Appel Room, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.


Birdland Big Band; Marcus Roberts Trio

Christian McBride & Tip City, Emmet Cohen, Piano; Dan Wilson, Guitar; Christian McBride, Bass; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Braden-Teepe-Wilson aka "Trio of Liberty"; Michael Weiss Quartet; After-hours Jam Session with Joe Farnsworth; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Saturday, December 2 Steve Miller, Jimmie Vaughan & Charlie Musselwhite: The Blues

Triangle Memphis, Texas, And Chicago And More; Rose Theater. Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Fabulous Dorsey Brothers With Peter And Will Anderson, Wycliffe Gordon, Brianna Thomas, Bruce Harris; Appel Room, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Fourplay, Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St

Marcus Roberts Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th.


Smalls Showcase: Carmen Staaf; Craig Brann Quintet; Michael Weiss Quartet; Brooklyn Circle; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Sunday, December 3 Paula West Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.

Fourplay; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Greg Ruvolo Big Band Collective; Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Bird-land, 315 W. 44th St.


Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Ai Murakami Trio feat. Sacha Perry; Todd Marcus Jazz Orchestra; Frank Basile Quintet; Hillel Salem - After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Monday, December 4 Juilliard Jazz Orchestra; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th &

Bdwy.

Jim Caruso's Cast Party; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Tal Gamlieli & Change of Heart; Will Sellenraad Trio; Jonathan Michel Group & After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Tuesday, December 5 Omer Avital Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.

Rebirth Brass Band; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Eliane Elias; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Christian McBride & Inside Straight; Steve Wilson, Sax; Warren Wolf, Vibes; Peter Martin, Piano; Christian McBride, Bass; Carl Allen, Drums; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Ulysses Owens Jr. & Friends; Frank Lacy Group; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Wednesday, December 6 Omer Avital Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.

Rebirth Brass Band; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

David Ostwald's Louis Armstrong Eternity Band; Eliane Elias; Bird-land, 315 W. 44th St.


Jerome Sabbagh/Greg Tuohey Quartet; Ken Fowser Quintet; Aaron Seeber - After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Thursday, December 7 Bill Frisell & Thomas Morgan Duo; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116

E. 27th.

Renee Rosnes Deep In The Blue - Featuring Melissa Aldana, Steve Nelson, Peter Washington And Lenny White; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At

Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.

Jimmy Heath Big Band; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Taeko; Eliane Elias; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Jill McCarron Quartet; Fukushi Tainaka Quartet; Davis Whitfield - After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Friday, December 8 Bill Frisell & Thomas Morgan Duo; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116

E. 27th.

Renee Rosnes Deep In The Blue - Featuring Melissa Aldana, Steve Nelson, Peter Washington And Lenny White; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.


Birdland Big Band; Eliane Elias; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


David Gilmore Quintet; Mike DiRubbo Quartet; Corey Wallace DUBtet "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Saturday, December 9 Bill Frisell & Thomas Morgan Duo; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116

E. 27th.



Billy Stritch; Eliane Elias; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Smalls Showcase: Mike Bond Trio; Sylvia Cuenca Quartet; Mike DiRubbo Quartet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Sunday, December 10 Bill Frisell & Thomas Morgan Duo; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116

E. 27th.



Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Ai Murakami Trio feat. Sacha Perry; Ian Hendrickson-Smith Quartet; Corcoran Holt Sextet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Monday, December 11 New York Youth Symphony: Ted Nash, Extended Works; Dizzy’s

Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.

Chris Botti; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Jim Caruso's Cast Party; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Ari Hoenig Trio; Jonathan Kreisberg Quartet; Jonathan Barber Group & After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Tuesday, December 12 Joe Lovano Classic Quartet; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E.

27th.

Marquis Hill Blacktet With Special Guest Willie Pickens; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.

Stacey Kent; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Kenny Barron Quintet - Mike Rodriguez, Trumpet; Dayna Stephens, Saxophone; Kenny Barron, Piano; Kiyoshi Kitagawa, Bass; Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Kirk Lightsey; Jonathan Kreisberg Quartet; Abraham Burton Quartet & After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Tuesday, December 13 Big Band Holidays Featuring The Jazz At Lincoln Center Orchestra

With Wynton Marsalis And Vocalists Catherine Russell And Kenny Washington; Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Joe Lovano Classic Quartet; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E. 27th.

Marquis Hill Blacktet With Special Guest Willie Pickens; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.


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David Ostwald's Louis Armstrong Eternity Band; Stacey Kent; Bird-land, 315 W. 44th St.


Jochen Rueckert Quartet; Kelly Green Sextet; Jovan Alexandre - After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Wednesday, December 14 Big Band Holidays Featuring The Jazz At Lincoln Center Orchestra

With Wynton Marsalis And Vocalists Catherine Russell And Kenny Washington; Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy.

Joe Lovano Classic Quartet; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E. 27th.

Bria Skonberg; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.


Fleur Seule; Stacey Kent; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Jochen Rueckert Quartet; Michael Blake Quartet; Jonathan Thomas - "After-hours" Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Friday, December 15 Joe Lovano Classic Qt; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E. 27th.

Riley’s Red Hot Holidays; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.


Birdland Big Band; Stacey Kent; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Duane Eubanks Quintet; Ralph Bowen Quartet; After-hours Jam Session with Joe Farnsworth; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Saturday, December 16 Joe Lovano Classic Quartet; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E.

27th.



Stacey Kent; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Duane Eubanks Quintet; Ralph Bowen Quartet; Eric Wyatt Quartet & After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Sunday, December 17 Joe Lovano Classic Quartet; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E.

27th.



Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Ralph Lalama & "Bop-Juice"; Hillel Salem - After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Monday, December 18 Dick Hyman: Standards And Strides; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln

Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.


Christine Ebersole & Billy Stritch “Snowfall”; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Ari Hoenig Trio; Jonathan Michel & Jonathan Barber: After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Tuesday, December 19 Matt Wilson Christmas Tree-O, Featuring Nels Cline, Jeff Lederer;

Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E. 27th.

Dick Hyman: Standards And Strides; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.


Freddy Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Kenny Barron Trio - Kenny Barron, Piano; Kiyoshi Kitagawa, Bass; Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Spike Wilner Trio; Abraham Burton Quartet & After-hours Jam Ses-sion; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Wednesday, December 20 Matt Wilson Christmas Tree-O, Featuring Nels Cline, Jeff Lederer;

Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E. 27th.

Sherman Irby: A New Christmas Story; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.


David Ostwald's Louis Armstrong Eternity Band; Freddy Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Alex Wintz Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Thursday, December 21 Spanish Harlem Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E.

27th.



Freddy Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Jason Yeager & Jason Anick Quintet; Sloniker-Uusitalo Quartet; Davis Whitfield - After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Friday, December 22 Spanish Harlem Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E.

27th.



Klea Blackhurst, Jim Caruso & Billy Stritch In “A Swingin' Birdland Christmas”; Freddy Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Eddie Allen Quintet; Metta Quintet; Corey Wallace DUBtet "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Saturday, December 23 Spanish Harlem Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E.

27th.





Smalls Showcase: Sam Raderman Trio; Eddie Allen Quintet; Metta Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Sunday, December 24 Sherman Irby: A New Christmas Story; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln

Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.




Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Robert Edwards - After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Monday, December 25 Chris Botti; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.


Christmas With The Bad Plus - Reid Anderson, Bass; Ethan Iverson, Piano; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Fabien Mary Quintet; Jonathan Barber Group & After-hours Jam Session; Robert Edwards - After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Tuesday, December 26 Carlos Henriquez Octet: The Latin Side Of Dizzy; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz

At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy


Birdland Big Band with Special Guest Vocalist Veronica Swift; Bird-land, 315 W. 44th St.

The Bad Plus - Reid Anderson, Bass; Ethan Iverson, Piano; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S.

Lucas Pino Nonet; Abraham Burton Quartet & After-hours Jam Ses-sion; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Wednesday, December 27 Carlos Henriquez Octet: The Latin Side Of Dizzy; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz



David Ostwald's Louis Armstrong Eternity Band; Birdland Big Band with Special Guest Vocalist Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Patrick Cornelius Quartet; Akiko Tsuruga Quartet; Aaron Seeber - After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Thursday, December 28 Carlos Henriquez Octet: The Latin Side Of Dizzy; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz





Adam Larson Quartet; Saul Rubin Quartet; Jonathan Thomas - "After-hours" Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Friday, December 29 Carlos Henriquez Octet: The Latin Side Of Dizzy; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz





Mark Whitfield Trio; Dezron Douglas/Johnathan Blake Quartet; After-hours Jam Session with Joe Farnsworth; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Saturday, December 30 Carlos Henriquez Octet: The Latin Side Of Dizzy; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz





Smalls Showcase: Fima Chupakhin Quintet; Mark Whitfield Trio; Brooklyn Circle; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

Sunday, December 31 Rene Marie; Jazz Standard, 7:30, 9:30 PM. 116 E. 27th.

New Year’s Eve With Paquito D’rivera And Carlos Henriquez; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy.




Jon Roche Quartet; New Year's Eve with SmallsLIVE All Stars; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.

“...among human beings jealousy ranks distinctly as a

weakness; a trademark of small minds; a property of all small minds, yet a property

which even the smallest is ashamed of; and when accused of its possession will

lyingly deny it and resent the accusation as an insult.”

-Mark Twain

“Some people’s idea of free speech is that they are free

to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back that

is an outrage.”

- Winston Churchill


5 C Cultural Center, 68 Avenue C. 212-477-5993. www.5ccc.com

55 Bar, 55 Christopher St. 212-929-9883, 55bar.com

92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128,

212.415.5500, 92ndsty.org

Aaron Davis Hall, City College of NY, Convent Ave., 212-650-

6900, aarondavishall.org

Alice Tully Hall, Lincoln Center, Broadway & 65th St., 212-875-

5050, lincolncenter.org/default.asp

Allen Room, Lincoln Center, Time Warner Center, Broadway and

60th, 5th floor, 212-258-9800, lincolncenter.org

American Museum of Natural History, 81st St. & Central Park

W., 212-769-5100, amnh.org

Antibes Bistro, 112 Suffolk Street. 212-533-6088.

www.antibesbistro.com

Arthur’s Tavern, 57 Grove St., 212-675-6879 or 917-301-8759,

arthurstavernnyc.com

Arts Maplewood, P.O. Box 383, Maplewood, NJ 07040; 973-378-

2133, artsmaplewood.org

Avery Fischer Hall, Lincoln Center, Columbus Ave. & 65th St.,

212-875-5030, lincolncenter.org

BAM Café, 30 Lafayette Av, Brooklyn, 718-636-4100, bam.org

Bar Chord, 1008 Cortelyou Rd., Brooklyn, barchordnyc.com

Bar Lunatico, 486 Halsey St., Brooklyn. 718-513-0339.

222.barlunatico.com

Barbes, 376 9th St. (corner of 6th Ave.), Park Slope, Brooklyn,

718-965-9177, barbesbrooklyn.com

Barge Music, Fulton Ferry Landing, Brooklyn, 718-624-2083,

bargemusic.org

B.B. King’s Blues Bar, 237 W. 42nd St., 212-997-4144,

bbkingblues.com

Beacon Theatre, 74th St. & Broadway, 212-496-7070

Beco Bar, 45 Richardson, Brooklyn. 718-599-1645.

www.becobar.com

Bickford Theatre, on Columbia Turnpike @ Normandy Heights

Road, east of downtown Morristown. 973-744-2600

Birdland, 315 W. 44th St., 212-581-3080

Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd, 212-475-8592, bluenotejazz.com

Bourbon St Bar and Grille, 346 W. 46th St, NY, 10036,

212-245-2030, [email protected]

Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery (at Bleecker), 212-614-0505,

bowerypoetry.com

BRIC House, 647 Fulton St. Brooklyn, NY 11217, 718-683-5600,

http://bricartsmedia.org

Brooklyn Public Library, Grand Army Plaza, 2nd Fl, Brooklyn,

NY, 718-230-2100, brooklynpubliclibrary.org

Café Carlyle, 35 E. 76th St., 212-570-7189, thecarlyle.com

Café Loup, 105 W. 13th St. (West Village) , between Sixth and

Seventh Aves., 212-255-4746

Café St. Bart’s, 109 E. 50th St, 212-888-2664, cafestbarts.com

Cafe Noctambulo, 178 2nd Ave. 212-995-0900. cafenoctam-

bulo.com

Caffe Vivaldi, 32 Jones St, NYC; caffevivaldi.com

Candlelight Lounge, 24 Passaic St, Trenton. 609-695-9612.

Carnegie Hall, 7th Av & 57th, 212-247-7800, carnegiehall.org

Cassandra’s Jazz, 2256 7th Avenue. 917-435-2250. cassan-

drasjazz.com

Chico’s House Of Jazz, In Shoppes at the Arcade, 631 Lake Ave.,

Asbury Park, 732-774-5299

City Winery, 155 Varick St. Bet. Vandam & Spring St., 212-608-

0555. citywinery.com

Cleopatra’s Needle, 2485 Broadway (betw 92nd & 93rd), 212-769-

6969, cleopatrasneedleny.com

Club Bonafide, 212 W. 52nd, 646-918-6189. clubbonafide.com

C’mon Everybody, 325 Franklin Avenue, Brooklyn.

www.cmoneverybody.com

Copeland’s, 547 W. 145th St. (at Bdwy), 212-234-2356

Cornelia St Café, 29 Cornelia, 212-989-9319

Count Basie Theatre, 99 Monmouth St., Red Bank, New Jersey

07701, 732-842-9000, countbasietheatre.org

Crossroads at Garwood, 78 North Ave., Garwood, NJ 07027,

908-232-5666

Cutting Room, 19 W. 24th St, 212-691-1900

Dizzy’s Club, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor, 212-258-9595,

jalc.com

DROM, 85 Avenue A, New York, 212-777-1157, dromnyc.com

The Ear Inn, 326 Spring St., NY, 212-226-9060, earinn.com

East Village Social, 126 St. Marks Place. 646-755-8662.

www.evsnyc.com

Edward Hopper House, 82 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 854-358-

0774.

El Museo Del Barrio, 1230 Fifth Ave (at 104th St.), Tel: 212-831-

7272, Fax: 212-831-7927, elmuseo.org

Esperanto, 145 Avenue C. 212-505-6559. www.esperantony.com

The Falcon, 1348 Rt. 9W, Marlboro, NY., 845) 236-7970,

Fat Cat, 75 Christopher St., 212-675-7369, fatcatjazz.com

Fine and Rare, 9 East 37th Street. www.fineandrare.nyc

Five Spot, 459 Myrtle Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 718-852-0202, fivespot-

soulfood.com

Flushing Town Hall, 137-35 Northern Blvd., Flushing, NY, 718-

463-7700 x222, flushingtownhall.org

For My Sweet, 1103 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY 718-857-1427

Galapagos, 70 N. 6th St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-782-5188, galapago-

sartspace.com

Garage Restaurant and Café, 99 Seventh Ave. (betw 4th and

Bleecker), 212-645-0600, garagerest.com

Garden Café, 4961 Broadway, by 207th St., New York, 10034,

212-544-9480

Gin Fizz, 308 Lenox Ave, 2nd floor. (212) 289-2220.

www.ginfizzharlem.com

Ginny’s Supper Club, 310 Malcolm X Boulevard Manhattan, NY

10027, 212-792-9001, http://redroosterharlem.com/ginnys/

Glen Rock Inn, 222 Rock Road, Glen Rock, NJ, (201) 445-2362,

glenrockinn.com

GoodRoom, 98 Meserole, Bklyn, 718-349-2373, goodroombk.com.

Green Growler, 368 S, Riverside Ave., Croton-on-Hudson NY.

914-862-0961. www.thegreengrowler.com

Greenwich Village Bistro, 13 Carmine St., 212-206-9777, green-

wichvillagebistro.com

Harlem on 5th, 2150 5th Avenue. 212-234-5600.

www.harlemonfifth.com

Harlem Tea Room, 1793A Madison Ave., 212-348-3471, har-

lemtearoom.com

Hat City Kitchen, 459 Valley St, Orange. 862-252-9147.

hatcitykitchen.com

Havana Central West End, 2911 Broadway/114th St), NYC,

212-662-8830, havanacentral.com

Highline Ballroom, 431 West 16th St (between 9th & 10th Ave.

highlineballroom.com, 212-414-4314.

Hopewell Valley Bistro, 15 East Broad St, Hopewell, NJ 08525,

609-466-9889, hopewellvalleybistro.com

Hudson Room, 27 S. Division St., Peekskill NY. 914-788-FOOD.

hudsonroom.com

Hyatt New Brunswick, 2 Albany St., New Brunswick, NJ

IBeam Music Studio, 168 7th St., Brooklyn, ibeambrooklyn.com

INC American Bar & Kitchen, 302 George St., New Brunswick

NJ. (732) 640-0553. www.increstaurant.com

Iridium, 1650 Broadway, 212-582-2121, iridiumjazzclub.com

Jazz 966, 966 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-638-6910

Jazz at Lincoln Center, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org

Frederick P. Rose Hall, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor

Dizzy’s Club Coca-Cola, Reservations: 212-258-9595

Rose Theater, Tickets: 212-721-6500, The Allen Room, Tickets:

212-721-6500

Jazz Gallery, 1160 Bdwy, (212) 242-1063, jazzgallery.org

The Jazz Spot, 375 Kosciuszko St. (enter at 179 Marcus Garvey

Blvd.), Brooklyn, NY, 718-453-7825, thejazz.8m.com

Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St., 212-576-2232, jazzstandard.net

Joe’s Pub at the Public Theater, 425 Lafayette St & Astor Pl.,

212-539-8778, joespub.com

John Birks Gillespie Auditorium (see Baha’i Center)

Jules Bistro, 65 St. Marks Pl, 212-477-5560, julesbistro.com

Kasser Theater, 1 Normal Av, Montclair State College, Montclair,

973-655-4000, montclair.edu

Key Club, 58 Park Pl, Newark, NJ, 973-799-0306, keyclubnj.com

Kitano Hotel, 66 Park Ave., 212-885-7119. kitano.com

Knickerbocker Bar & Grill, 33 University Pl., 212-228-8490,

knickerbockerbarandgrill.com

Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St, 212-219-3132, knittingfacto-

ry.com

Langham Place — Measure, Fifth Avenue, 400 Fifth Avenue

New York, NY 10018, 212-613-8738, langhamplacehotels.com

La Lanterna (Bar Next Door at La Lanterna), 129 MacDougal St,

New York, 212-529-5945, lalanternarcaffe.com

Le Cirque Cafe, 151 E. 58th St., lecirque.com

Le Fanfare, 1103 Manhattan Ave., Brooklyn. 347-987-4244.

www.lefanfare.com

Le Madeleine, 403 W. 43rd St. (betw 9th & 10th Ave.), New York,

New York, 212-246-2993, lemadeleine.com

Les Gallery Clemente Soto Velez, 107 Suffolk St, 212-260-4080

Lexington Hotel, 511 Lexington Ave. (212) 755-4400.

www.lexinghotelnyc.com

Live @ The Falcon, 1348 Route 9W, Marlboro, NY 12542,

Living Room, 154 Ludlow St. 212-533-7235, livingroomny.com

The Local 269, 269 E. Houston St. (corner of Suffolk St.), NYC

Makor, 35 W. 67th St., 212-601-1000, makor.org

Lounge Zen, 254 DeGraw Ave, Teaneck, NJ, (201) 692-8585,

lounge-zen.com

Maureen's Jazz Cellar, 2 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 845-535-3143.

maureensjazzcellar.com

Maxwell’s, 1039 Washington St, Hoboken, NJ, 201-653-1703

McCarter Theater, 91 University Pl., Princeton, 609-258-2787,

mccarter.org

Merkin Concert Hall, Kaufman Center, 129 W. 67th St., 212-501

-3330, ekcc.org/merkin.htm

Metropolitan Room, 34 West 22nd St NY, NY 10012, 212-206-

0440

Mezzrow, 163 West 10th Street, Basement, New York, NY

10014. 646-476-4346. www.mezzrow.com

Minton’s, 206 W 118th St., 212-243-2222, mintonsharlem.com

Mirelle’s, 170 Post Ave., Westbury, NY, 516-338-4933

MIST Harlem, 46 W. 116th St., myimagestudios.com

Mixed Notes Café, 333 Elmont Rd., Elmont, NY (Queens area),

516-328-2233, mixednotescafe.com

Montauk Club, 25 8th Ave., Brooklyn, 718-638-0800,

montaukclub.com

Moscow 57, 168½ Delancey. 212-260-5775. moscow57.com

Muchmore’s, 2 Havemeyer St., Brooklyn. 718-576-3222.

www.muchmoresnyc.com

Mundo, 37-06 36th St., Queens. mundony.com

Museum of the City of New York, 1220 Fifth Ave. (between

103rd & 104th St.), 212-534-1672, mcny.org

Musicians’ Local 802, 332 W. 48th, 718-468-7376

National Sawdust, 80 N. 6th St., Brooklyn. 646-779-8455.

www.nationalsawdust.org

Newark Museum, 49 Washington St, Newark, New Jersey 07102-

3176, 973-596-6550, newarkmuseum.org

New Jersey Performing Arts Center, 1 Center St., Newark, NJ,

07102, 973-642-8989, njpac.org

New Leaf Restaurant, 1 Margaret Corbin Dr., Ft. Tryon Park. 212-

568-5323. newleafrestaurant.com

New School Performance Space, 55 W. 13th St., 5th Floor (betw

5th & 6th Ave.), 212-229-5896, newschool.edu.

New School University-Tishman Auditorium, 66 W. 12th St., 1st

Floor, Room 106, 212-229-5488, newschool.edu

New York City Baha’i Center, 53 E. 11th St. (betw Broadway &

University), 212-222-5159, bahainyc.org

North Square Lounge, 103 Waverly Pl. (at MacDougal St.),

212-254-1200, northsquarejazz.com

Oak Room at The Algonquin Hotel, 59 W. 44th St. (betw 5th and

6th Ave.), 212-840-6800, thealgonquin.net

Oceana Restaurant, 120 West 49th St, New York, NY 10020

212-759-5941, oceanarestaurant.com

Orchid, 765 Sixth Ave. (betw 25th & 26th St.), 212-206-9928

The Owl, 497 Rogers Ave, Bklyn. 718-774-0042. www.theowl.nyc

Palazzo Restaurant, 11 South Fullerton Avenue, Montclair. 973-

746-6778. palazzonj.com

Priory Jazz Club: 223 W Market, Newark, 07103, 973-639-7885

Proper Café, 217-01 Linden Blvd., Queens, 718-341-2233

Clubs, Venues & Jazz ResourcesClubs, Venues & Jazz Resources

— Anton Chekhov

“A system of morality

which is based on relative

emotional values is a mere

illusion, a thoroughly vulgar

conception which has nothing

sound in it and nothing true.”

— Socrates


Prospect Park Bandshell, 9th St. & Prospect Park W., Brooklyn,

NY, 718-768-0855

Prospect Wine Bar & Bistro, 16 Prospect St. Westfield, NJ,

908-232-7320, 16prospect.com, cjayrecords.com

Red Eye Grill, 890 7th Av (56th), 212-541-9000, redeyegrill.com

Ridgefield Playhouse, 80 East Ridge, parallel to Main St.,

Ridgefield, CT; ridgefieldplayhouse.org, 203-438-5795

Rockwood Music Hall, 196 Allen St, 212-477-4155

Rose Center (American Museum of Natural History), 81st St.

(Central Park W. & Columbus), 212-769-5100, amnh.org/rose

Rose Hall, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org

Rosendale Café, 434 Main St., PO Box 436, Rosendale, NY 12472,

845-658-9048, rosendalecafe.com

Rubin Museum of Art - “Harlem in the Himalayas”, 150 W. 17th

St. 212-620-5000. rmanyc.org

Rustik, 471 DeKalb Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 347-406-9700,

rustikrestaurant.com

St. Mark’s Church, 131 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.), 212-674-6377

St. Nick’s Pub, 773 St. Nicholas Av (at 149th), 212-283-9728

St. Peter’s Church, 619 Lexington (at 54th), 212-935-2200,

saintpeters.org

Sasa’s Lounge, 924 Columbus Ave, Between 105th & 106th St.

NY, NY 10025, 212-865-5159, sasasloungenyc.yolasite.com

Savoy Grill, 60 Park Place, Newark, NJ 07102, 973-286-1700

Schomburg Center, 515 Malcolm X Blvd., 212-491-2200,

nypl.org/research/sc/sc.html

Shanghai Jazz, 24 Main St., Madison, NJ, 973-822-2899, shang-

haijazz.com

ShapeShifter Lab, 18 Whitwell Pl, Brooklyn, NY 11215

shapeshifterlab.com

Showman’s, 375 W. 125th St., 212-864-8941

Sidewalk Café, 94 Ave. A, 212-473-7373

Sista’s Place, 456 Nostrand, Bklyn, 718-398-1766, sistasplace.org

Skippers Plane St Pub, 304 University Ave. Newark NJ, 973-733-

9300, skippersplaneStpub.com

Smalls Jazz Club, 183 W. 10th St. (at 7th Ave.), 212-929-7565,

SmallsJazzClub.com

Smith’s Bar, 701 8th Ave, New York, 212-246-3268

Sofia’s Restaurant - Club Cache’ [downstairs], Edison Hotel,

221 W. 46th St. (between Broadway & 8th Ave), 212-719-5799

South Gate Restaurant & Bar, 154 Central Park South, 212-484-

5120, 154southgate.com

South Orange Performing Arts Center, One SOPAC

Way, South Orange, NJ 07079, sopacnow.org, 973-313-2787

Spectrum, 2nd floor, 121 Ludlow St.

Spoken Words Café, 266 4th Av, Brooklyn, 718-596-3923

Stanley H. Kaplan Penthouse, 165 W. 65th St., 10th Floor,

212-721-6500, lincolncenter.org

The Stone, Ave. C & 2nd St., thestonenyc.com

Strand Bistro, 33 W. 37th St. 212-584-4000

SubCulture, 45 Bleecker St., subculturenewyork.com

Sugar Bar, 254 W. 72nd St, 212-579-0222, sugarbarnyc.com

Swing 46, 349 W. 46th St.(betw 8th & 9th Ave.),

212-262-9554, swing46.com

Symphony Space, 2537 Broadway, Tel: 212-864-1414, Fax: 212-

932-3228, symphonyspace.org

Tea Lounge, 837 Union St. (betw 6th & 7th Ave), Park Slope,

Broooklyn, 718-789-2762, tealoungeNY.com

Terra Blues, 149 Bleecker St. (betw Thompson & LaGuardia),

212-777-7776, terrablues.com

Threes Brewing, 333 Douglass St., Brooklyn. 718-522-2110.

www.threesbrewing.com

Tito Puente’s Restaurant and Cabaret, 64 City Island Avenue,

City Island, Bronx, 718-885-3200, titopuentesrestaurant.com

Tomi Jazz, 239 E. 53rd St., 646-497-1254, tomijazz.com

Tonic, 107 Norfolk St. (betw Delancey & Rivington), Tel: 212-358-

7501, Fax: 212-358-1237, tonicnyc.com

Town Hall, 123 W. 43rd St., 212-997-1003

Triad Theater, 158 W. 72nd St. (betw Broadway & Columbus

Ave.), 212-362-2590, triadnyc.com

Tribeca Performing Arts Center, 199 Chambers St, 10007,

[email protected], tribecapac.org

Trumpets, 6 Depot Square, Montclair, NJ, 973-744-2600,

trumpetsjazz.com

Turning Point Cafe, 468 Piermont Ave. Piermont, N.Y. 10968

(845) 359-1089, http://turningpointcafe.com

Urbo, 11 Times Square. 212-542-8950. urbonyc.com

Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S., 212-255-4037

Vision Festival, 212-696-6681, [email protected],

Watchung Arts Center, 18 Stirling Rd, Watchung, NJ 07069,

908-753-0190, watchungarts.org

Watercolor Café, 2094 Boston Post Road, Larchmont, NY 10538,

914-834-2213, watercolorcafe.net

Weill Recital Hall, Carnegie Hall, 57th & 7th Ave, 212-247-7800

Williamsburg Music Center, 367 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, NY

11211, (718) 384-1654 wmcjazz.org

Zankel Hall, 881 7th Ave, New York, 212-247-7800

Zinc Bar, 82 West 3rd St.

RECORD STORES

Academy Records, 12 W. 18th St., New York, NY 10011, 212-242

-3000, http://academy-records.com

Downtown Music Gallery, 13 Monroe St, New York, NY 10002,

(212) 473-0043, downtownmusicgallery.com

Jazz Record Center, 236 W. 26th St., Room 804,

212-675-4480, jazzrecordcenter.com

MUSIC STORES

Roberto’s Woodwind & Brass, 149 West 46th St. NY, NY 10036,

646-366-0240, robertoswoodwind.com

Sam Ash, 333 W 34th St, New York, NY 10001

Phone: (212) 719-2299 samash.com

Sadowsky Guitars Ltd, 2107 41st Avenue 4th Floor, Long Island

City, NY 11101, 718-433-1990. sadowsky.com

Steve Maxwell Vintage Drums, 723 7th Ave, 3rd Floor, New

York, NY 10019, 212-730-8138, maxwelldrums.com

SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, CONSERVATORIES

92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128

212.415.5500; 92ndsty.org

Brooklyn-Queens Conservatory of Music, 42-76 Main St.,

Flushing, NY, Tel: 718-461-8910, Fax: 718-886-2450

Brooklyn Conservatory of Music, 58 Seventh Ave., Brooklyn,

NY, 718-622-3300, brooklynconservatory.com

City College of NY-Jazz Program, 212-650-5411,

Drummers Collective, 541 6th Ave, New York, NY 10011,

212-741-0091, thecoll.com

Five Towns College, 305 N. Service, 516-424-7000, x Hills, NY

Greenwich House Music School, 46 Barrow St., Tel: 212-242-

4770, Fax: 212-366-9621, greenwichhouse.org

Juilliard School of Music, 60 Lincoln Ctr, 212-799-5000

LaGuardia Community College/CUNI, 31-10 Thomson Ave.,

Long Island City, 718-482-5151

Lincoln Center — Jazz At Lincoln Center, 140 W. 65th St.,

10023, 212-258-9816, 212-258-9900

Long Island University — Brooklyn Campus, Dept. of Music,

University Plaza, Brooklyn, 718-488-1051, 718-488-1372

Manhattan School of Music, 120 Claremont Ave., 10027,

212-749-2805, 2802, 212-749-3025

NJ City Univ, 2039 Kennedy Blvd., Jersey City, 888-441-6528

New School, 55 W. 13th St., 212-229-5896, 212-229-8936

NY University, 35 West 4th St. Rm #777, 212-998-5446

NY Jazz Academy, 718-426-0633 NYJazzAcademy.com

Princeton University-Dept. of Music, Woolworth Center Musical

Studies, Princeton, NJ, 609-258-4241, 609-258-6793

Queens College — Copland School of Music, City University of

NY, Flushing, 718-997-3800

Rutgers Univ. at New Brunswick, Jazz Studies, Douglass Cam-

pus, PO Box 270, New Brunswick, NJ, 908-932-9302

Rutgers University Institute of Jazz Studies, 185 University

Avenue, Newark NJ 07102, 973-353-5595

newarkrutgers.edu/IJS/index1.html

SUNY Purchase, 735 Anderson Hill, Purchase, 914-251-6300

Swing University (see Jazz At Lincoln Center, under Venues)

William Paterson University Jazz Studies Program, 300 Pompton

Rd, Wayne, NJ, 973-720-2320

RADIO

WBGO 88.3 FM, 54 Park Pl, Newark, NJ 07102, Tel: 973-624-

8880, Fax: 973-824-8888, wbgo.org

WCWP, LIU/C.W. Post Campus

WFDU, http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/index2.html

WKCR 89.9, Columbia University, 2920 Broadway

Mailcode 2612, NY 10027, 212-854-9920, columbia.edu/cu/wkcr

ADDITIONAL JAZZ RESOURCES

Big Apple Jazz, bigapplejazz.com, 718-606-8442, gor-

[email protected]

Louis Armstrong House, 34-56 107th St, Corona, NY 11368,

718-997-3670, satchmo.net

Institute of Jazz Studies, John Cotton Dana Library, Rutgers-

Univ, 185 University Av, Newark, NJ, 07102, 973-353-5595

Jazzmobile, Inc., jazzmobile.org

Jazz Museum in Harlem, 104 E. 126th St., 212-348-8300,

jazzmuseuminharlem.org

Jazz Foundation of America, 322 W. 48th St. 10036,

212-245-3999, jazzfoundation.org

New Jersey Jazz Society, 1-800-303-NJJS, njjs.org

New York Blues & Jazz Society, NYBluesandJazz.org

Rubin Museum, 150 W. 17th St, New York, NY,

212-620-5000 ex 344, rmanyc.org.

“It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world

and moral courage so rare.”

— Mark Twain

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Interview by Eric Nemeyer

Photo by Joe Patitucci

JI: You’ve worked with some really great peo-ple. Could you comment on what it was like working with them, and if you could contribute a story or two, and how you might have, or not have, adjusted your style? For example, you and Frank Wess worked together on a number of albums. FF: It was a great pleasure working with him, because our styles...In spite of the fact that a lot of people say, “Oh, yeah. Y’all sound just alike!”...They weren’t really listening, because Frank Wess and I are worlds apart in style. His style is more adaptable for romantic ballads, and Basie realized this, and used him in that context. And Basie once told me—I asked Basie, “Why don’t you let me play more ballads?” And he said: “You just play fast tunes. You don’t need to play any more ballads.” So, your up tempo songs, like “Jumpin’ At The Woodside”—I was

really, I had the thing happening on the fast tunes. And Frank was more adept at playing medium tempo tunes and ballads. And, whereas I eventually learned how to play a ballad, I real-ly was more at home on faster songs, faster tem-pos. So, when we worked together, we were sort of a very good complement to one another. We were able to use a broad range of songs, from slow to fast, and where he shone—I didn’t get in

his way, and where I shone—he didn’t get in my way. And of course, I played tenor and soprano, he played tenor and flute, so we had at least a three dimensional thing happening, with three instruments represented...And if he felt like playing some alto, he would do that. But of course, his first love is the tenor, as far as saxophones are concerned; he only played alto out of necessity, with the Basie Orchestra. But, it’s very good working with him, because both of us insist on a top-notch rhythm section. And both of us are composers, and we offer a differ-ent style, different approaches to writing and arranging. JI: Could you provide a brief synopsis of your career highlights? Frank Foster: My career actually began in Cin-cinnati. I had my own 12-piece band my senior year in high school. I just worked local dances

around school. I played with dance bands around town; the first group, with a name you’d be fa-miliar with, would be Snooky Young. That was after my college days. I left school and went to Detroit and worked with Snooky for part of a year, until I got drafted into the Army. After I came out of the Army, of course I spent eleven years with Count Basie, from 1953 to 1964. During that time, I wrote many arrangements for

him and I met just about everybody in the music field. After leaving Basie in 1964, I freelanced around New York City. I had moved to New York when I began working with Basie. I was out of the Basie Orchestra for 22 years, from 1964 to 1986. During that time, I worked with various groups, from Elvin Jones Quintet, Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra...I worked a short period with the Woody Herman Orchestra, and a very short period with the Lloyd Price band. I recorded with a lot of folks. JI: When you had the 12-piece band in high school, were you arranging for that band? FF: Yes, I wrote all the arrangements for the band.

JI: How did you begin studying arranging? Ob-viously, at that time they didn’t have the scores and the materials they have now. Were you tran-scribing things, or…? FF: All I did was, I listened to the music of the dance bands that I was playing, and I sort of figured out how the horns were stacked up.


Frank Foster

“the talent to perform jazz music is one of the most beautiful gifts of God”

InterviewInterview

“The things I admired about [Coltrane’s] playing —his harmonic awareness, and that sort of

“sheets of sound” approach—I fell in love with the ‘sheets of sound’ thing, and I started just

emulating that. The ‘sheets of sound’ being long, sweeping, almost glissando-like combinations of notes, based on a certain chord or a certain scale.

I really fell in love with that approach…”


(chuckles) So I just started arranging on my own, without any formal lessons—just from listening. JI: The Basie band—obviously they had a cer-tain style, a certain instrumentation. How did that begin to impact or influence your composi-tional and your improvisational approach as a player? FF: The keynote of the whole Basie or-chestrational theme was simplicity—and swing. So, I didn’t write too many elabo-rate orchestrations with Basie. I kept them very simple in terms of thematic content and harmony, although I learned a lot about harmony from listening to other arrangers, like Thad Jones and Ernie Wil-kins...and Benny Carter. JI: Was Thad doing a lot more arranging prior to the time that you started contrib-uting to the Basie band? FF: No, Thad didn’t do a lot of arrang-ing; he did a few things. He has an ex-tensive knowledge of the art of arrang-ing and his compositions, his arrange-ments, were very effective. I guess, in terms of the amount of arranging, I did more, and Thad did a little less, and Frank Wess did even less. But they were just as expert, if not more... JI: You play alto, and you play tenor. Was that always the case, from high school on? FF: No. I played alto until my second year of college, and at that time they were short of tenor players and had an abundance of alto players, so I switched to tenor. And, I haven’t played alto since, except on a few occasions. As my style of playing became more adaptable to the tenor, I just put the alto down altogether. JI: Have you found that, over the years, as you developed your sound on tenor, and the things that you were doing, that that was influencing your arranging style? FF: Not so much. When you’re arranging, you have to think of all the instruments, their proper-ties and their qualities, their mechanics.... JI: From live performances that I’ve seen, and on your recordings, it’s apparent that you’ve been influenced by some of the other tenor play-ers who were around, such as John Coltrane. Would that be safe to say? FF: Oh, yes. I was influenced by John Coltrane, Wardell Gray, Dexter Gordon, Don Byas...I guess those were my main influences on tenor saxophone once I switched. JI: When you heard John Coltrane, and began to be interested in his work, how did you go about

studying his music? How did you assimilate it into your own playing? FF: The things I admired about his playing—his harmonic awareness, and that sort of “sheets of sound” approach—I fell in love with the “sheets of sound” thing, and I started just emulating that. The “sheets of sound” being long, sweeping, almost glissando-like combinations of notes, based on a certain chord or a certain scale. I really fell in love with that approach… I wasn’t

drawn to musicians of any ilk, I

mean who played any instrument, who didn’t show a vast harmon-ic awareness. I was always attracted to the styles of musicians who really, as the old timers used to say, knew their chord changes. And I could always tell who did and who didn’t! And anyone who exposed his or her limitations, I didn’t lis-

ten to them much. I liked listening only to those who really displayed a great harmonic knowledge. I mean, there are some who swung—heavy swingers—and some who had a heavy blues orientation, and I would appreciate them. But whenever they played a note that I considered non-relevant, that would turn me off.

Coltrane just didn’t play what I call harmonical-ly non-relevant notes, despite what some people said about his playing—either too long, or play-ing what they call, just, “outside.” I always found Coltrane’s ideas harmonically relevant, and for that, I really had the utmost respect for him and others like him. And Dexter Gordon was another one who showed a vast harmonic awareness. JI: Were you transcribing their solos, or kind of picking things up intuitively?

FF: I was just picking things up intuitively. I wasn’t into transcrib-ing solos. At one time or another, I was into transcribing entire ar-rangements. I knew some older musicians who did that, and I did a couple of those. I think I transcribed one solo...no, I learned one tran-scribed solo—I learned Coleman Hawkins’ famous “Body And Soul” solo. I learned to play that on alto, because I was playing alto at the time. I was never into really tran-scribing solos, because I thought, while it was good for analysis, it was just getting too much into an artist’s style. It’s bad enough that you copied half of what he did (chuckles), on records, or what you heard him play, intuitively. But, it was all good prac-tice for the ear; but I didn’t ever want to become too much like another artist. That’s one reason I was happy to switch from alto to tenor. Charlie Parker’s influence on my alto saxo-phone playing was so great, that I just

could- n’t shake it. Almost everything I played was Charlie Parker-ish, and earlier I had been influenced by Johnny Hodges, and Willie Smith, and Benny Carter, until Charlie Parker came along and he wiped everything out of the way. But I never got into transcribing solos, even

now, when that seems to be a big part of the jazz ed program—transcribing, analyzing. JI: You raise an interesting point. In years past, you could go down to the clubs, and sit in and listen in, and it was all in a live or impromptu


Frank Foster

“It’s bad enough that you copied half of what he did (chuckles), on records, or what you heard him play, intuitively ... but I didn’t ever want to become too much like another

artist. That’s one reason I was happy to switch from alto to tenor. Charlie Parker’s influence on my alto saxophone playing

was so great, that I just couldn’t shake it.”


setting, where the music was evolving. And now, it’s moved from that...into the classroom, which gives people the opportunity to develop their technique to some astonishing level … Could you comment on that? FF: Yes. My only classrooms were the dance-halls and the nightclubs...I would stand right close to the saxophone sec-tion, or sit under the lead alto player or the solo tenor player, and absorb what he was doing. I think that, in a sense, is better than all this classroom activity. We seem to be producing generations of derivative players...only one in ten is really developing an individual style, and the rest of them almost seem like clones. JI: How do you see, if there is one, a way out of that dilem-ma? FF: I don’t know if there is a way out of it...I don’t think we’ll ever go back in time to a less complicated era. You know, we’ve got television, we’ve got computers, and we’re able to do so much with tech-nology—and people get hung up on technology. Right now, I’m sitting at a computer, writ-ing out a score. I just don’t think we’re going to be able to return to the so-called Stone Age of jazz (chuckles), where the princi-pal activity is sitting up under someone, live. Thank God, we still have some jazz clubs left, and people can do that. And, we have these situ-ations where Monday night bands or Tuesday night bands can play; but back when I was com-

ing up, every week I heard a different band, in the same dancehall. You don’t have traveling bands coming through like that anymore. JI: Given that Americans are kind of moved by what’s “in the moment,” and things come and

go, and everybody wants instant relief from pain, and fast learning....Someone recently said, “Well, jazz used to be—what’s Charlie Parker, or John Coltrane, or Miles Davis gonna do next? And now, it’s who’s gonna be the next Miles Davis, or the next Charlie Parker?”...instead of observing, and taking a liking to, and appreciat-ing the ongoing growth of any musician’s music and career. Do you have a perspective on that? FF: Well, I’m not looking for the “next” Charlie Parker, or John Coltrane, or Miles Davis. I’m just looking for

somebody who’s going to come along with a thing of his or her own that will inspire me not to liken that person to Charlie Parker, or Coltrane, or Monk or Miles... JI: Rather, to enjoy their original voice, which is

what jazz is all about—like many people, in-cluding yourself, who’ve contributed to the mu-sic. FF: Yes. And, see, the media and some of the critics—I don’t know, if they’ve got this mental-

ity of … who’s going to come out with some-thing that will represent a natural evolutional development of jazz, in which it still is creative, and still is spontaneous, and still is applicable, and relevant, and still contains those elements which always characterize jazz … the element of swing, the feeling for the blues....I would like to think: devoid of electronics. I would hate to see jazz move totally over into the world of elec-tronics, and have somebody say, well, the next great person is gonna be the one who does some-thing different on a synthesizer. I don’t wanna

hear that. You know, for how many decades did I grow up with acoustic music? And then, suddenly I was assaulted by electronics. And peo-ple say it’s getting to the point where you can’t tell acoustic piano from electric piano, and you can’t tell synthesized strings from actual strings...And I just don’t think they’ll ever bring it around to where you totally can’t tell the difference between acoustic in-struments, as they have been known to be, and so-called elec-tronic imitations. And I was distressed—I love classical mu-sic, European classical music—and I was distressed by the fact that they say: “Well, we’re mix-ing synthesizer with the sympho-ny orchestra, and we’re partly electronifying (chuckles) the symphony orchestra.” And I said, Oh, man, why does this have to be? Why can’t we keep this acoustic purity somewhere, in this music? So, as far as I’m concerned, I don’t want to hear about the next great jazz person being somebody who’s heavily electronified! I want to hear

what somebody’s gonna do with the alto saxophone, the tenor saxophone, the trum-pet, the guitar, the trombone, the acoustic piano, as they have always been. JI: What do you think are the most important non-musical things musicians need to learn in order to remain happy, and balanced, and be successful? FF: The most important non-musical thing is to maintain physical and mental health, and not become involved with drugs, thinking that drugs will help them perform, or will enhance their performance. Now, so many musicians got hung up in the drug thing, and it ended the lives, it shortened the lives, of many great musicians. And, it killed the careers of musicians, who nev-er even got to be heard from in the mainstream. I knew musicians in Detroit who, if they hadn’t gotten hung up on drugs, and got to New York, and got to the mainstream, and recording, and performing throughout the world, they would have been as big names as some of those who are out there now. And, of course, there are great names who were just brought down by drugs. I won’t even mention any names.…


Frank Foster

“The most important non-musical thing is to maintain physical and mental health, and not become involved with drugs, thinking that drugs will help them per-

form, or will enhance their performance.”


FF: I’m not either. I’m referring to a “God-consciousness,” which can be Presbyterian, or Baptist, or none of the above, you know. First of all, the talent to perform music, to compose, arrange, perform, is God-given. God gave every-body in this world something to use for the bet-terment of mankind, of humankind. Some of us He made musicians, some of us He made car-penters, some of us build houses, or some of us own grocery stores, or whatever. God gave eve-ry being born of woman something to use for the betterment of humankind. And, the talent to perform jazz music is one of the most beautiful gifts of God, as far as I’m concerned. Because it’s so much fun (chuckles), it’s so fulfilling and rewarding. When you have done some-thing...When I have created a new piece, a song or a symphony, or whatever—the satisfaction that I feel, even down to enjoying the physical act of writing notes with a pen in hand, is just a great, great feeling. And the feeling of knowing that when somebody hears these notes per-formed, and the notes come off the paper, and come alive—the enjoyment and fulfillment they’re going to get out of it—that really gives me a real boost. So, that’s the beginning of the spiritual awareness: It’s a God-given talent. And, we’re all supposed to live our lives accord-ing to the word of God, and we’re supposed to treat our fellow beings the way we’d like to be treated, simply stated. And if we can play some music for some people, and make them happy, hey, I think that’s doing God’s work. JI: It’s contrary to the attitude of many of the people and some of the musicians that we all run into in the music business, where sometimes a negative and undeserved behind-the-back criti-cism, or the competitiveness and lack of cooper-ation you encounter alienates certain people, and runs contrary to that spirituality that we’re talk-ing about. FF: Right, right. I agree with that. JI: We talk about playing a lot, and how im-portant in writing and playing it is to develop harmonic, and melodic, and rhythmic under-standing, and of course the other subtleties, such as dynamics and phrasing, and texture, and so on. But there’s an element that a lot of people overlook—they don’t necessarily overlook it, but it doesn’t occupy as much importance—namely, listening. Gary Peacock, in an interview mentioned that if you’re in the mode of deep listening, then the playing will simply take care of itself. FF: Hmm. Well, I agree with that, at least in part. To that I would add—you’ve got to work to become what you’d want to be, musically. And, listening is a very important part of it. When I do clinics, and workshops, whatever, seminars and discussions around the world at universities and music schools, one of my most important state-ments to the students is: These two things on either side of your head, known as ears, are your

best weapons, and your most important tools in developing whatever you need to develop, as far as jazz is concerned. And that means whether you’re a passive listener, or you’re listening to learn; if you’re listening for enjoyment, or you’re listening to learn various techniques, or listening for analysis, analytical purposes—your ears are the best weapons you have. In addition to ears, I think some talent and feeling for the blues is necessary—I mean for players. Now, for people who just want to be part of our audience, listening is very important because listening—really, truly listening—develops your faculties, so that you become a wonderful fan of the music (chuckles)...and, we need fans! This music is not…I mean, jazz is not elevator music. Elevator

music forms a certain ambiance for things you do in life, or getting from one place to another, but jazz has stories, messages. And people should develop their listening power, to decipher these messages. And, I think it takes a certain degree of intelligence to listen, even aesthetical-ly, for long periods of time; but I think people are more developed as individuals, who listen attentively. And, who strive...who want some-thing more than just what the media has to offer, in the way of not only music, but in all types of entertainment. If you go with the general public, you’re just going to be fed a bunch of garbage, and you’re gonna eat it all. But if you want something more, you will develop a taste for jazz, for true jazz. JI: Do you have a favorite funny story about working with Basie, or any particular players you worked with, that you want to share? FF: Okay. I got a couple of stories. One is an Ella Fitzgerald story. Years ago, when I first worked with Ella, with the Basie band, we were talkin’ in Birdland. We were standing at the bar, havin’ a little drink. And I said: “Miss Fitzger-ald, my wife is a big fan of yours. She thinks you’re marvelous, she thinks you’re wonderful, she thinks you’re the greatest that she’s ever heard, and she thinks the sun rises and sets around you...” Every sort of compliment about what my wife thought. So, Ella finally said, “Oh, that’s very nice. Now, how do you feel?” And I said, “Oh, I feel fine.” (hearty chuckles) Natural-ly, I cleared it up later. JI: Yeah, I’m sure.

FF: With Basie, there’s this time we were on tour in England. And the band was wearing—we had sort of a tan tux uniform, with gold stripes down the middle of the trousers, and the gold lapels. And coffee brown bow ties, and coffee brown shoes as the uniform. And I, uh, mis-placed my shoes—I think somebody purposely misplaced them for me! I couldn’t find my uni-form shoes. We played this concert; I think it was Manchester, England. Thousands of people in the audience. And the only other shoes I had was a pair of dirty blue and white sneakers—I mean, real dirty! And, so, I had to have some-thing on my feet, so I went out on stage to play, and I had these blue and white sneakers on, with this tan tux and gold lapels. And, I was featured

on one of the songs, “Jumpin’ At The Wood-side”—you probably know that one. And, when an artist is featured on a solo, that artist usually goes around to the front, down, and there was a mike at the center of the stage in the front.… Well, I chose not to play into the mic on my extended featured solo, for obvious reasons, and I just stood up behind my music stand to play my solo. And, Charlie Fowlkes, the late Charlie Fowlkes, who played baritone, sat next to me. And he decided to pull my music stand out from in front of me, revealing me standing there with this classy tux on, and these dirty blue and white sneakers. Everybody in the audience broke up, and the band broke up. Basie fell off the piano stool, laughing! ‘Cause the spotlight was right on me! JI: Sounds like Charlie Fowlkes and some of the guys in the band knew it was going to happen in advance! FF: It sounds like they did, yeah....But, I played one hell of a solo!

JI: So they forgot about the sneakers…! What words of wisdom have you received from a teacher or a mentor or is there a quotation, or a fragment of wisdom that’s inspired you, or that you abide by? FF: Well, I remember, somebody told me a long time ago: “Never get satisfied with yourself, kid. ‘Cause the minute you think you’re the greatest, and you wanna stick out your chest, somebody else is gonna come along and blow you away!” (laughs)

Frank Foster

“...the talent to perform music, to compose, arrange, perform, is God-given.

God gave everybody in this world something to use for the betterment of

mankind, of humankind. Some of us He made musicians, some of us

He made carpenters …”


Interview by Eric Nemeyer

JI: Talk a little bit about your life in New York

City and how you’re able to stay balanced

among the hustle and bustle and noise and so on.

TN: I lived in Brooklyn for a while. I moved

here when I was eighteen. I was a bit sure of

myself, a little cocky — because things seemed

to go so easily for me when I was young. In Los

Angeles, people seemed to care that I was

young, and they thought that was interesting.

“Wow, he plays great for somebody who’s sev-

enteen or sixteen or whatever.” I was getting

gigs, and then it was time to come to New York

where the people were serious about music—

jazz. This is where everybody was. This is

where all my heroes lived. So I moved to the

city here and I had gotten an attitude. And peo-

ple were like, “Hey, you see that little line going

around, all the way around the building and

down the street? Get in the back of that line,

that’s where you belong.” I learned quickly. This

was before the young lion thing too, so I didn’t

get the benefit of that vernacular. But I realized

that I had to work. There was so much still to do

and to work hard. I got a little bit side-tracked I

think in my first few years in New York. It was-

n’t anything specific. It wasn’t like drugs or

alcohol. I was in a relationship that was just not

very supportive of what I did—and I didn’t prac-

tice enough and I didn’t write enough music. I

did gigs and I kept working and playing with

bands, but I feel like I just missed a few years

there where I could have been developing more

and achieving more creatively. I had a rebirth in

my late 20s where I had started to really discov-

er music that I had never heard before, and start-

ed to develop more in my personal way of play-

ing, and getting away from sounding like every-

body that I liked. Then starting in my 30s, I

think in my mid 30s or so I started to really in-

vestigate composition. I realized that playing

your own music was important. It really helped

identify you. Again, I felt very young at it. I

realized that my favorite projects are those

where I’ve done a lot of orchestrating or com-

posing. Living in the city—I’m pretty relaxed

with it. It doesn’t matter how active, or crazy, or

loud, energetic the city is. I maintain an even

energy level for myself. I do have a cabin that’s

out in Pennsylvania, in Wayne County—the

Northeast tip of Wayne County in the upper

Delaware area. I’ve got ten acres of wooded

property and a log cabin and a piano, and it’s the

polar opposite of being in the city. So I have the

best of both worlds. I did most of the Chakra

[album] writing out there in the cabin. I enjoy

being in the city. I’m not doing a lot of in-town

work. I used to do Broadway shows. I did some

studio work. I used to do a lot of private parties

and things back when I was in my 20s and 30s.

Even in my 40s I was still doing Broadway

shows because I needed to earn a living. Now I

don’t need to do any of that work. I realize that

most of the work that I do I could get on a plane

and come here and do, or be on the road. So in

the back of my mind there is the possibility that

I may not always be in the city for my perma-

nent place of residence. But I’m still not quite at

that point. I like the energy. I think a true extro-

vert is somebody that thrives on energy of other

people. That’s why you see a lot of people going

to a café, a coffee shop and sitting and doing

their homework or doing their work. It’s not like

they’re engaged with anybody but they just love

the energy of people around them and it helps

them produce. I do get that.

JI: Talk about the kinds of study and investiga-

tion you did as you began to pursue your interest

in composition.

TN: Being in the Mel Lewis band for ten years,

I heard Thad Jones and Bob Brookmeyer in par-

ticular. I studied their scores so I got my basics

about orchestrating for a big band kind of

through that. As I started to do projects that in-

volved string quartets, or an accordion, I would

study the music in which those instruments were

featured – say, Bartok’s String Quartet. So I

bought the score to that and I brought it on the

road with me. I battled through trying to under-

stand a lot of that music. I got particularly in-

volved with tango, loved listening to Piazzolla

and nouveau tango stuff and very old tango. The

Jazz Composers Collective is a group I was a

part of back in mid 90s. For about 13 years we

did five concerts a year, and we always were

featured on one of the concert. That was the

opportunity to push myself – and to come up

with something new. That’s where I came up

with some of the ideas that I really like with my

small band stuff.

JI: I really liked that album the Mel Lewis and

Brookmeyer did with the big band in the late

70’s. I think it had a blue cover and it had all

these great charts by Bob Brookmeyer.

TN: I joined the band just after that record came

out. Tom Harrell was in it. Dick Oatts had a

feature called “Make Me Smile.” Steve Coleman

or Kenny Garrett had been playing with the

band. I used to sub for Steve. The chair opened

up and Dick Oatts asked me to join. Brookmeyer

was the musical director at the time and we

played a lot of that music. He wrote more music

that was very challenging, and kind of went

away from Thad’s more traditional way. A lot of

guys in the band loved it, and a lot of guys in the

band resisted it. Bob Brookmeyer was very con-

flicted and eventually left. He just said I can’t do

this anymore.

JI: How was he conflicted?

TN: He saw the band as an opportunity. He was

in the band originally [when Thad and Mel

founded the band in the mid 1960s] and wrote

some of the early music. Then he saw it as an

extension of his own creativity, as an opportuni-

ty to explore new sides of himself. But I think

some people felt that it was at their expense.

They didn’t necessarily want to play music that

was so free. So there was resistance from the

band. I think Bob was conflicted because he

wanted to stay there. He loved Mel. He loved a

lot of the guys in the band. He loved the oppor-

tunity. Yet he felt like people weren’t digging

the music enough. So he always felt bad. More

and more he would show up and you could tell

that he was feeling insecure about the music. He

felt like he wasn’t getting support. Not too long

after that, he moved to Rotterdam where he felt

that people understood his music better or some-

thing.

JI: Talk a little bit about your work at Jazz at

Lincoln Centre which occupies a significant

amount of your time.

TN: Well, I first joined 15 years ago. During the

second year I was in the band we did an entire


Ted Nash

Commitment, Dedication, Challenges, Growth

InterviewInterview

“...the commitment also means that we’ll get called for things that we really want to do and

we have to say no. That’s what a commitment is. You are that dedicated to something.

I think that’s a challenge at times”

New York Youth Symphony Ted Nash Extended Works

Jazz At Lincoln Center, Dizzy’s Club, December 11



“The greatest day in your life and mine is when we take total responsibility for our attitudes.

That’s the day we truly grow up.”

- John Maxwell

year celebrating Duke’s [Ellington] Centennial

and doing of just Duke’s music. We didn’t do

anything else that entire year but Duke. So it

really did feel like a repertory orchestra. I

wouldn’t trade that year for anything because I

learned a hell of a lot about not only Duke, but

about music. The band still had a bit of reputa-

tion of being a repertory band in that it started

out that way. But now the majority of what we

do is new music or original music, or music

written by cats in the band. The direction of the

band has certainly changed in the last three,

four, five years. There was a point when I felt

like maybe my contribution to the band was

through. I wasn’t really giving anything to the

band that they needed necessarily and I almost

left. I’m glad I didn’t—because now I feel very

involved with that direction. I write a lot of mu-

sic. Wynton is so wonderful to work for. He’s

always encouraging us to write, to find our own

voice, to always be honest in the music. I think

people are starting to learn a little bit about

Wynton in that he feels a tremendous responsi-

bility for keeping jazz alive. He has a strong

mission to make that sure jazz doesn’t die. Part

of that is preserving older music, and part of it is

creating newer music. So it all comes together. I

feel like all the music is valid. I remember once,

a long time ago, I ran into a hero of mine, Dave

Liebman. I went to hear him play in Chicago. I

had a night off after the gig with Jazz at Lincoln

Center. So I came and I heard him at the Green

Mill. Afterwards I went up to him and said “Hey

man.” He goes “Hey, how are doing?” I said

“Good. I’ve been playing Jazz at Lincoln Cen-

ter.” He looked at me and he said “Just be care-

ful.” I said “Why?” He goes “You know, men

with tuxedos and all of that—that just kind of

seems like it’s getting away from—you’re a

creative musician man. You’re too creative to

get caught up in all that and everything.” I said,

“Whoa, okay.” I kind of got it for a while. The

next time I saw Dave Liebman was when he was

a guest for Jazz at Lincoln Centre, and we were

playing some very creative music. He just

seemed to be very involved and supportive of it.

So I think sometimes it’s our own perception

that changes, or sometimes it’s the actual direc-

tion of the music that’s changing and people are

learning about it. But I think Jazz at Lincoln

Centre is doing wonderful things and I’m really

honored to be a part of it.

JI: What are some of the challenges that you

experience in your work if any with Jazz at Lin-

coln Centre?

TN: It’s a full commitment. We have annual

contracts. We’re committed to them. They take

up about seven months work out of the year.

That’s basically a positive thing—but we also

can’t do a lot of other things. So the commit-

ment also means that we’ll get called for things

that we really want to do and we have to say no.

That’s what a commitment is. You are that dedi-

cated to something. I think that’s a challenge at

times because there are things that come up -

and they might be my own things. There have

been offers to do things of my own that I’ve had

to say no to. There have been times when the

conflict was so great that I talked to Wynton and

I said “Hey, look, man, this thing is really im-

portant.” And he’ll say “Cool man, we’ll get

somebody to cover for you. Do that, that’s im-

portant.” Whenever the cats in the band can do

something where they can grow, he knows that

we bring that back to the band and everybody

benefits. So that happens sometimes.

JI: Well that’s a good healthy attitude. People

who don’t know the inner workings of an organ-

ization and often times project their own under-

standings or misunderstandings onto things.

Plus, things don’t remain static. Everyone and

everything is always in process – and does not

remain stagnant and stay the way it was when it

started out. The Jazz at Lincoln Centre Orchestra

may have seemed like it was a Duke Ellington

repertoire band for a year. But things have to

start somewhere before they begin to grow and

take on the life of the participants and all of the

energy that’s evolving and growing on a daily

basis.

TN: Yes, for sure. People who don’t actually

listen to our music or check us out or come to

our concerts may only remember something that

Wynton said when he was nineteen. Or they may

have seen one concert on PBS back in 1991. I

remember showing up for a gig and someone

said, “Hey, how’s that gig you’re doing with a

racist.” I was like, “Excuse me?” “Yes, the thing

with Wynton.” I said, “Wow, what makes you

think he’s a racist?” He said, “Oh, come on. I

know some of the things he said.” I said, “Oh,

you mean some of those comments he made

when he was nineteen or something, because he

was angry about how he was treated as a kid or

something? Come on. We all grow up.” Wynton

is racially aware, certainly. But he’s not racist by

any means.

JI: Everyone is growing and evolving. It sounds

like there is a healthy attitude that is a part of the

Orchestra and the way he encourages members.

TN: Yes, and Wynton’s a deep thinker. He reads

a lot. I’m always learning about things when I’m

talking with and hanging out with him. We

laugh too because we’re about the same age. We

have kids the same age. We have fathers who

are musicians. We grew up in the same era lis-

tening to the same music. So we have so much

in common and yet we didn’t really hook up

with each other until the mid-90s. We feel like it

would have been interesting if we had met a

decade earlier - what that would have been. I’m

so glad that I have him next to me a lot of times.

He’s a great inspiration.


Ted Nash

“The band [Jazz At Lincoln Center Orhcestra] still had a bit of reputation of being a repertory band in that it started out that way. But now the majority of what we do is new music or original music, or music written by cats in the band ... There was a point when I felt like maybe my

contribution to the band was through. I wasn’t really giving anything to the band that they

needed necessarily and I almost left. I’m glad I didn’t—because now I feel very involved with

that direction. I write a lot of music.”


Clark TerryClark Terry New York City, July 16, 2005New York City, July 16, 2005

© Eric Nemeyer© Eric Nemeyer


Interview & Photos by Eric Nemeyer

JI: Tell us about your book.

PR: The book is called Portraits and Land-

scapes. This is a traveling book. As you know I

spend most of my time traveling and watching

the landscapes through the windows of the train

or bus, and meeting different types of people. I

decided to put that in a volume and put it out. It

was published in Spanish by Universal but now

I’m looking for a publisher in English. I think it

could be very interesting book – especially for

musicians and people that don’t have a chance to

travel. The book covers from Thailand to Bue-

nos Aires to Mexico to Japan, Taiwan, China.

There are tales about people whom I’ve had the

chance to work with – people like Yo-Yo Ma,

Lionel Hampton, Dizzy Gillespie, Cachao, Celia

Cruz. I also describe different parts of the world

while being with those artists. These are chroni-

cles of my travels.

JI: Are there pictures in the book?

PR: Yes. This is my third book and a very im-

portant part of my books are pictures – taken in

different parts of the world and with a variety of

people and animals that I met in those places. I

love animals. So there are a number of pictures

of elephants, and big parrots in the Amazon, and

dogs.

JI: Do you appear with the animals in those

pictures as well?

PR: Yeah, yeah yeah. [laughs]. The cover of the

edition in Spanish was taken with a group of

baby elephants in Thailand. Seconds after the

photo was taken, one of them stole from me a

bunch of bananas. [laughs]. I’ve had so much

fun traveling around the world that I decided to

put it in a book to read about our nomad life.

JI: Could you talk about your association with

Lionel Hampton?

PR: The first time I played with Lionel Hamp-

ton was at his festival in Moscow, Idaho. For

me, it was a dream come true. Lionel Hampton

was on the first recording I got, Benny Good-

man, Live At Carnegie Hall. So, playing

“Memories of You” with Lionel Hampton was a

fantastic experience for me. I played many times

with him after that – and I always had a lot of

fun.

JI: Do you remember any discussions you might

have had with him?

PR: No. Just watching him play was plenty. He

loved playing music so much. Somebody told

me that one time he was sued for playing too

much. He was playing in Las Vegas and they

told him he had to play one hour. He would al-

ways play an hour and forty five minutes or two

hours. Then people didn’t have the chance to

gamble. The owners wanted people to be able to

gamble. I think it was Frank Wess who told me

that Lionel Hampton was then sued for playing

too much. Another experience I had playing

with Lionel Hampton was in the Jazz Nativity. I

was one of the kings, along with Tito Puente and

Lionel Hampton. Then we played the closing

jam session. Then we all packed our instruments

and went downstairs for the party. When we

came back upstairs, Lionel Hampton and Tito

Puente were playing a duet.

JI: Talk about Cachao.

PR: Cachao was a friend of my father back in

Havana. He was the reason that I wrote this

piece “Conversation with Cachao.” It is written

for contrabass, saxophone and symphony or-

chestra. It was commissioned for the Caramoor

Music Festival. I wanted to write a contrabass

concerto but they wanted me in the picture. I

remember those conversations my father had

with Cachao in little cafes, in his office, in cen-

tral Havana. So I said let’s put this together and

dedicate it to Cachao and Tito. My father’s name

was Tito. My relationship with Cachao was very

warm.

JI: Did you have much opportunity to play with

Cachao in Cuba?

PR: He left Cuba when I was very young. He

was part of the line of contrabasses for the TV

station symphony orchestra. I played a couple of

times with the symphony as a soloist. He was

known mostly for the dance music that he rec-

orded. But he was a very versatile musician. He

played symphonic music, ballet – anything.

JI: Did he provide any guidance or ideas about

how he wanted you to play.

PR: No. He had such a great sense of humor.

Cachao was a lesson by himself. He was a mag-

nificent contrabassist. He had that grace to play

music.

JI: You had a long association with Dizzy Gil-

lespie. Talk about how that began and devel-

oped.

PR: There is a chapter in my book called

“General Holmes in Havana.” That was the initi-

ation of our friendship. I arrived in my house in

Marianao, a suburb of Havana City. I found a

paperback with something written on it in kind

of a “Spanglish.” It said, “Paquito, we have been

looking for you. Don’t disappoint us. – Dizzy

Gillespie” I said, “What kind of joke is this?”

Then I went to the grocery store around the cor-

ner. The guy there said, “Did you receive the

note.” I said, “What note? What type of joke is

this?” He said, “It’s not a joke. There was guy

who came in here – a chubby black guy with

these chicks. He was speaking in a new language

and wearing a herring bone cape that Sherlock

Holmes used to wear in the movies. He had a


“I think it is important for your self-respect to put a price on your work – because this is work. It doesn’t look like work to other people, but this is work. We have to practice, we have to pay for [instrument] repairs, we

have to dress correctly.”

Paquito D’Rivera “It takes a great man, not just a great musician,

to try to make other people feel good.”

InterviewInterview

Hear Paquito D’Rivera Jazz At Lincoln Center, Dizzy’s Club

December 31, New Year’s Eve



Joseph Jarman

double visor hat and he was smoking a pipe that

looked like a saxophone. I said, “That was Dizzy

Gillespie.” The guy in the store said, “Dizzy

who?” He had no idea who Dizzy was. That day

a very large ship named The Daphne came into

port. On the ship were people like Stan Getz,

Joanne Brackeen, and Dizzy Gillespie. So, Artu-

ro Sandoval was passing by the pier and he saw

Dizzy Gillespie – which is like seeing, I don’t

know… a horse with three heads. We’re in the

middle of Havana, and here’s Dizzy Gillespie.

What the hell is this? Well, Dizzy was real easy

to convince to go wherever you wanted. So Ar-

turo said, “Do you want to go with me? I’m a

trumpet player.” Dizzy said, “Yeah, I’ll go with

you.” So, Arturo took him to my house, and I

was not there. A couple of hours later, I found

out that I received a call to go to the former Hil-

ton Hotel. I went there and there was a jam ses-

sion with Dizzy Gillespie, Stan Getz and Earl

“Fatha” Hines. So that was the beginning of a

very nice friendship until the end of his life.

That was in April of 1977.

JI: Then you came to the United States and be-

gan playing with Dizzy.

PR: I was always a guest artist. I was never a

member of his band. The first time I went on

tour with him was when Toots Thielemans had a

stroke in 1981. Toots was supposed to be his

guest artist on the tour through Europe. Dizzy

called me and asked, “Do you want to do this

tour?” He wanted me as the guest artist. I said,

“Dizzy, I am not as well known as Toots Thiele-

mans.” Dizzy said gruffly, “You want to do the

tour or you don’t.” I said, “OK, I will go with

you.” He was so helpful for me because the fol-

lowing year I had my own tour in Europe. That

was very generous of Dizzy.

JI: Did Dizzy offer any ideas or suggestions to

you?

PR: Dizzy Gillespie was a born teacher. He was

always teaching something harmonically or

rhythmically. Every day we had something new

to learn from him. The way he addressed the

audience…. Playing with him was like going to

school. Sometimes, without saying a word, he

would teach you how to play certain phrases and

what not to play. That’s an important thing –

because sometimes the more important notes are

not the ones that you play, but the ones that you

leave out. Dizzy was an example of that … of

what not to play. He was a master of leaving

space for others to shine.

JI: You played in Dizzy’s United Nations Or-

chestra.

PR: I was the Musical Director along with Slide

Hampton. We organized the orchestra for him. I

arranged a couple of things. It was like a pocket

size big band. When Sam Rivers left the band,

Marion Rivera took over. That added a little

more of a Caribbean flavor to the band. I also

suggested bring in Claudio Roditi to play the

second trumpet. Dizzy loved his sound, and

commented on it very often. Also, when Monty

Alexander left, a very young Danilo Perez came

on.

JI: Do you remember any discussions with Diz-

zy that made a particular impact on you?

PR: We were playing at Lincoln Center. I made

a sarcastic comment to him, and then tried to

pinch him to see what he had to say. We were

talking about sight reading music, I said some-

thing to provoke him. I said, “Dizzy, I heard that

Charlie Parker played by ear, that he didn’t read

music.” Dizzy became very serious and said,

“That is a big lie.” I said that some people play

pretty good without reading. He said, “Not that

way. For you to play like Charlie Parker, you

want to know what the hell you’re doing.” I

agree with him. I think that reading music is

very important – as important as knowing how

to play by ear. First of all, it saves a lot of time

in the studio. When you are able to have a guide

to show you where you are going… You can

play in small groups without reading music. But

when you play in a large ensemble, it is impossi-

ble to organize without reading music. Dizzy

was very aware of that. There is no reason not to

be able to read music. That is like asking me to

read the New York Times for you. Read it your-

self! Reading music is an asset. It’s a blessing.

Improvising is also a blessing. When you com-

bine both you are in heaven. You save time. I

don’t like rehearsing too much. I don’t want to

play the same piece ten times. I want to play two

times and that’s it. Then go on to the next piece.

And, the only way to do that is if you read mu-

sic.

JI: How did you develop your arranging skills?

PR: By studying scores and reading orchestra-

tion books. Don Sebesky’s book. But, mainly

listening and comparing with the score. Maurice

Ravel, Kodaly, and the arrangers for Stan Ken-

ton, like Pete Rugolo, Pete Russo, Johnny Rich-

ard Jones, Chico O’Farrill and of course, Thad

Jones. I think Stan Kenton has been very under-

rated for the past 30 or 40 years. I think he is one

of the Big Band titans. He knew how to sur-

round himself with great arrangers. I never made

a living as an arranger. I do it because I like it.

But, I learned a lot from an Argentinian guy who

lives in New York for many years, named Carlos

Franzetti. He is a master of the colors. He was

my pianist for awhile. He even wrote a concerto

for me, and I worked with him a lot.

JI: I know that he arranged the music for an

album by Jon Faddis a few years ago.

PR: Yes. I played on that album. Faddis played

the flugelhorn most of the time.



Paquito D’Rivera

“...when you play in a large ensemble, it is impossible to organize without reading music. Dizzy was very

aware of that. There is no reason not to be able to read music. That is like asking me to read the New York

Times for you. Read it yourself! Reading music is an asset. It’s a blessing. Improvising is also a blessing.

When you combine both you are in heaven.”


JI: Could you talk about your recent album

Paquito D’Rivera Tango Jazz?

PR: There was a Tango concert at Jazz At Lin-

coln Center. The musical director was Pablo

Aslan, the great Argentinian bass player. They

called me to be the guest artist. They imported

the musicians from Argentina, Uruguay, a ban-

doneon player – the one jazz bandoneon player,

Michael Zisman. He is such an impressive play-

er because he gets the bebop language into the

Tango thing. When I heard the reaction, we tried

to record it live at Lincoln Center. Sometimes it

is more important to listen than to play. So I

learned from the way they played the Tango. I

was impressed with the results. We got permis-

sion and put out the CD.

JI: Could you talk about your other current al-

bum, Pan Americana.

PR: Pan Americana was commissioned by Jazz

At Lincoln Center ten years ago. The piece fea-

tured Nicholas Payton and myself. I remembered

the enormous contribution of Latin-American

musicians to the jazz language. Then they put

together this suite – and the lyrics were written

by Annie Colina. She has been in exile for 50

years and she is here in New Jersey. The Pan

Americana Suite is an homage to the entire con-

tinent – the entire Americas. It puts together

instruments from the entire continent – the ma-

rimba from Central America, the steel pan from

the Caribbean, the harp from the Andes, and the

bandoneon from Argentina.

JI: What kind of practice do you do on a daily

basis to maintain your skills?

PR: The saxophone is a very noble instrument.

When you stay in good shape with the clarinet,

you practically don’t have to play the saxophone

too much. The clarinet demands much more

attention. That’s why there are so few of us

around. I don’t play the alto sax too much at

home. I have the clarinet assembled all the time,

and it’s over there in the corner. Whenever I

have a chance I practice scales. These days I

don’t have too much time to practice because

I’m doing so many things. I’m traveling and

writing. It’s not that the saxophone is an easy

instrument. There is no such thing. But staying

in shape on the clarinet keeps you in shape on

the sax. Frank Wess said the clarinet was invent-

ed by five men that never met. Usually I use a

book of exercises that belonged to my father.

The exercises keep me in good shape. I practice

certain tonguing exercises in all keys and porta-

mentos – long jumps. They are very good for the

lips to keep you in good shape. I don’t have a

routine to practice anymore. I used to have one

when I was a kid.

JI: What is special about the Rossi Clarinet that

you play?

PR: I have five of them – one in A, one in C and

three in Bb. I love that instrument. It makes your

life easier. I play a rosewood instrument. Luis

Rossi is a soloist also. He made that instrument

for the soloist – so it is very well built instru-

ment. He has also continued to improve the in-

strument. The wood is carved differently. The

instrument is longer and the barrel is shorter.

The sound of the instrument is very pure and

mellow. I try to have a dark sound and this in-

strument gives it to me.

JI: What have you observed about leadership

from the influential players with whom you have

worked.

PR: I try to learn constantly so I absorbed those

things naturally. I am a better leader though

since I had the chance to work with these lead-



Paquito D’Rivera

(Continued on Page 32)


ers, like Lionel Hampton, Dizzy Gillespie. Even

when Lionel was almost 100 years old, he didn’t

want to stop playing. That is a great example. It

was the same thing with Tito Puente – the love

for what we do, the dedication.

JI: One of my favorite quotations about business

was something that Dizzy said which went

something like: “I love the music but at the end

of the day I want to be paid.” Could you talk

about some of your business perspectives?

PR: I am not a very good businessman. But I

have a good manager. There is no rule. Some-

times you have to do things for no money, and

even have to pay to do something – for a good

cause. I like what Dizzy said that you quoted.

We make a living out of music and we don’t do

anything else. I think it is important for your self

-respect to put a price on your work – because

this is work. It doesn’t look like work to other

people, but this is work. We have to practice, we

have to pay for [instrument] repairs, we have to

dress correctly. That’s another thing that has

disappeared from the jazz music – and I hate it.

Sometimes musicians dress for a performance as

if they are just going to the grocery store at the

corner or something. You have to be on some

musicians, because they dress like sh*t – except

the Wynton Marsalis Orchestra. Someone who

has changed his dress habits for the best is

Danilo Perez. The first time that he was going to

play with me at Carnegie Hall, he was wearing a

pair of huaraches – very rustic shoes that the

Mexicans sell in the streets for two or three or

four dollars. It is a yellow shoe with the sole

made out of a tire. He was wearing something

similar to a tuxedo with the huaraches. He was

very young – maybe 20 years old. My wife,

Brenda told him: “You are not going on stage at

Carnegie Hall with those huaraches man.” He

told her he didn’t have any other shoes. She

said: “You know we are in New York, and on

every corner there is a shoe store. So you better

go and buy a couple of pairs because we are not

going to let you go on stage this way. And, you

have to comb your hair.” Ever since then he has

become a very well-dressed musician –very

elegant. We are very proud that we kind of initi-

ated that for him. When you are well dressed

you look better on stage and the music comes

out better. You don’t have to wear tuxedoes all

the time, but clothing has to be part of your pro-

fession.

JI: What are some of the things you have dis-

covered about human nature.

PR: Some people have the opinion that you can

be on bad terms with the drummer or the pianist

and the quality of the music will have nothing to

do with that. I don’t agree with that. Maybe you

can behave that way in a big band or in a sym-

phony orchestra. The guy playing the third bass

chair may have nothing to do with the tympanist.

But when you are playing this type of music, the

better the relationships we have in the band, the

better the music is going to sound. It reflects in

the music when the musicians don’t like each

other. Many years ago, I got rid of any negative

elements in my band. I don’t like negative peo-

ple. I’m so happy that I achieved that – with the

band that I have for the last 20 years. They get

along with each other. If there is a problem –

any type of problem, we can solve it among

ourselves, like in a family …. Even better than

in a family. If we have a problem we talk about

it and try to solve it. We really like and admire

each other.

JI: A few months ago we ran interviews with a

number of educators. Michael Mossman made a

comment about students that really applies for us

all: “what determines a student’s [or a person’s]

success is whether they decide to see the world

as a place of abundance, where the success of

others is to be applauded and emulated, or a

place of scarcity, where the success of others is

to be feared.”

PR: That takes a nice man like Michael Moss-

man to think that way. Most negative people

don’t know how to do that. It takes a great man,

not just a great musician, to try to make other

people feel good.

JI: In Quantum physics, it is understood that

particles change when observed. Wayne Dyer

phrased it that when you change the way you

look at things, the things you look at change. If

we view someone in a positive, friendly way,

that’s often what we get in return.

PR: James Moody had a great line. He said, “If

you’re telephone doesn’t ring, it’s me.” [laughs]

JI: With everyone in a business like music or

entertainment wanting attention, how do you

avoid letting your ego get out of control?

PR: Ego is something that is very import. It

keeps you running, with the desire and to aspire

to do things. The problem with the ego is like

with salt in food. Salt tastes good. But if you put

in too much salt, it tastes terrible. Just like hot

sauce. A little bit of hot sauce on your food is

good. If you put in the whole bottle you won’t

be able to eat the food. Shinichi Suzuki, the cre-

ator of the Suzuki method said: “The most im-

portant thing is to keep your ego controlled. The

excess of vanity deprives you of the appreciation

the greatness around you.” In other words, he is

saying you are missing too much of the great-

ness surrounding you when are too much into

yourself. As a pianist friend of mine Esko Linna-

valli, in Finland said: “When you think you are a

finished musician, you are finished.”

JI: What do you do to decompress?

PR: I go around in my baby blue 1957 Belair.

It’s a conversation piece. I like old cars.


“Dizzy Gillespie was a born teacher. He was always teaching something harmonically or rhythmically. Every day we had

something new to learn from him. The way he addressed the audience…. Playing with him was like going to school.

Sometimes, without saying a word, he would teach you how to play certain phrases and what not to play. That’s an

important thing – because sometimes the more important notes are not the ones that you play, but the ones that you leave out.”

Paquito D’Rivera




Dave BrubeckDave Brubeck Newport Jazz Festival, August 13, 2005Newport Jazz Festival, August 13, 2005



http://www.sellmoreticketsfast.com


Renee Rosnes Hear Renee at

Dizzy’s Club at Jazz At Lincoln Center December 7-10


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Eric Nemeyer’s - · PDF filePaquito D’Rivera . Jazz At Lincoln Center, Dec 31 . Ted Nash. Ted Nash . NY Youth Symphony: Ted Nash Extended Works . Dizzy’s Club, December 11. Frank