Copyright in this document is reserved to the Crown in right of the State of Western Australia. Reproduction of this document (or part thereof, in any format) except with the prior written consent of the attorney-general is prohibited. CORRUPTION AND CRIME COMMISSION OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA ACTING COMMISSIONER HERRON TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS AT PERTH ON TUESDAY, 22 MARCH 2011, AT 10.44 AM Continued from 21/3/11 Suppressions Included MR P.D. QUINLAN SC, with him MS M.S. HARRIES and MS N.D. PANTANO, counsel assisting. 22/3/11 143 (s&c)

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THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Yes, Mr Quinlan? 1 2 QUINLAN, MR: May it please you, sir, the first 3 examination today is of Rikenkumar Vaishnani and I would 4 call Mr Vaishnani. 5 6 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Mr Vaishnani, can you come 7 forward please? 8 9 VAISHNANI, RIKENKUMAR called: 10 11 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Yes. Can you take a seat 12 please? Mr Vaishnani, by section 138 subsection (1) of the 13 CCC Act before conducting an examination of you for the 14 purposes of an investigation under the act I am required to 15 inform you of the general scope and purpose of the 16 investigation, unless in the circumstances I consider it 17 undesirable to do so. I do not consider it is undesirable 18 and I will now explain to you the general scope and purpose 19 is to determine if any public officer or former public 20 officer employed by Curtin University of Technology has 21 engaged in misconduct in connection with the conduct of the 22 international English language testing system; (2) whether 23 the policies, practices and operating environment of the 24 Curtin English language centre were sufficient to detect 25 misconduct in a timely manner and (3) whether the 26 international English language testing system has been 27 compromised at testing centres operated by any other public 28 authorities. Do you understand the general scope and 29 purpose?---Yes, I do. 30 31 Before your examination begins I require you to take an 32 oath or an affirmation to tell the truth. Which would you 33 prefer to take?---I'm happy to have Bible. 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 144 57 10.44 58

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Sorry, I didn't - - - ?---I'm happy to have an oath. 1 2 Okay, I'll ask you to stand and take the oath, please. 3 4 VAISHNANI, RIKENKUMAR JENTILAL sworn: 5 6 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Can you take a seat, 7 please?---Thank you. 8 9 I think you've been provided with a notice to witnesses 10 when you were summonsed to come here. Is that correct? 11 ---Yep. 12 13 Have you read that?---Yep, I have. 14 15 That explains your rights and obligations?---Yep. 16 17 And you understand what is set out in that notice, you've 18 signed that notice?---Yep, I do understand. 19 20 Thank you. Yes, Mr Quinlan? 21 22 QUINLAN, MR: If it please you, sir. 23 24 Mr Vaishnani, you full name is Rikenkumar Jentilal 25 Vaishnani. Is that correct?---Yeah, that's correct. 26 27 Where were you born, Mr Vaishnani?---I was born in India, 28 (indistinct) state. 29 30 When did you come to Australia?---In June 2007. 31 32 June 2007, and what was the basis of your entry? Did you 33 come in under a particular visa?---For my further 34 education. 35 36 For your further education?---Yep. 37 38 So you came in on a student visa?---Student visa, yeah. 39 40 Are you currently employed?---Yes, I'm currently employed. 41 42 You are currently employed?---Yep, yep, I am. 43 44 I won't ask your residential address, but do you live with 45 some other persons?---Yep. 46 47 Who are the persons that you live with?---Do you want me to 48 specify the names? 49 50 Yes, please, and I might ask you - I apologise - if you can 51 bring the microphone a little closer to you - - - ? 52 ---Sure. 53 54 - - - so that I can hear you and that the Commissioner can 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 145 57 10.47 58

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hear you?---Yep, sorry about that. Sir, I live with 1 Keyurkumar Patel and Tusharkumar Patel. 2 3 Are they related?---No, they're just - - - 4 5 They have the same surname?---Yeah, yeah, but just friends. 6 7 They're not brothers?---Yeah - no. 8 9 Okay, so it's Keyurkumar Patel?---Yep. 10 11 And Tusharkumar Patel?---Patel - yeah. 12 13 Do you refer to them as Keyur and Tushar?---Yep. 14 15 Because they've both got the same surname, when I refer to 16 them I'll refer to them as Keyur Patel and Tushar Patel, 17 okay?---Yeah, yeah. 18 19 Is there somebody else that lives with the three of you? 20 ---It's Keyur's wife, that's it. 21 22 Okay, Keyur is married and his wife lives with you as 23 well?---Yeah, yeah. 24 25 Are each of you, Keyur and Tushar Patel currently in 26 Australia on visas?---Yeah. 27 28 Have you made application in recent times for a change in 29 your visa status or your residential status?---I made an 30 application of graduate via in February 2010, which - which 31 is a 485 category visa, and another one in June - yeah, 32 June 2010 which is a category 885 visa for the permanent 33 residency, after completion of my study of course. 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 146 56

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So in February of 2010 you made an application for a 1 485 visa?---Yep. 2 3 And in June of 2010 you made an application for a 4 category 885 which is a permanent residency application? 5 ---Application, yep. 6 7 In relation to those applications, what was your 8 understanding of what was needed by you in relation to 9 English language requirements for those particular visa 10 applications that you were making?---For graduate visa I 11 needed six bands in each module and - I mean, the overall 12 band, which I had of course so I made that application; but 13 for the permanent residency I needed either seven bands in 14 IELTS or either I get a state sponsorship, which both I had 15 actually. I mean, yeah, I had the state sponsorship. 16 17 You have said that you needed seven bands in IELTS for the 18 purposes of the permanent residency application?---Yep. 19 20 And you understand that - when you're referring to the 21 bands in IELTS you're referring to the IELTS testing 22 system?---Yep. 23 24 You're familiar with that?---Yeah; yeah, I am. 25 26 Have you taken that IELTS test on a number of occasions? 27 ---Yes, I have taken quite a few times. 28 29 Where and when was the first time that you took an IELTS 30 test?---The very first time when I was in India actually. 31 Yeah, to apply for a student visa I needed IELTS as well. 32 33 So there were IELTS centres in India and you went to an 34 IELTS centre in India?---Yep. 35 36 And so you had found out about that kind of a test before 37 you even arrived in Australia?---Yes; yes. That was - 38 yeah, what they say? I mean, without IELTS I cannot get my 39 visa or even an admission in university, so. 40 41 Obviously as you have said, in relation to your graduate 42 visa you needed overall bands of six?---Yep. 43 44 And that was something that you had already been able to 45 achieve - - -?---Achieved, yeah. 46 47 - - - on your own in IELTS testing that you had done? 48 ---Yes. 49 50 I think you took one IELTS test on 27 March last year. Is 51 that right?---I don't remember the date though, yeah. 52 53 54 55 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 147 56 10.51 57

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Okay, but in March of last year you took a test after 1 putting in the graduate application?---Yes; yes, yep. 2 3 Did other people attend the IELTS test with you on that 4 day?---I don't - I mean, there are so many people but I 5 don't - - - 6 7 No. Other people that you knew. Did you attend there with 8 other people that you knew?---I think there were a few, 9 yeah. A few friends. I don't remember exactly but, yeah, 10 there were a few. 11 12 Okay. I'll show you this document. It's bar code 0684? 13 ---Yep. 14 15 If we just bring it up a bit closer so that we can see that 16 a little better, do you recognise that as an IELTS test 17 report form that you received?---Yep. 18 19 And this is in relation to a test that you took - you can 20 see on the top - on 27 March 2010?---10. Yep. 21 22 If we scroll down, it says that you - sorry, just to the 23 middle of the page - you had previously taken a test on 24 8 September 2009?---Nine. Yep. 25 26 And that you took that previous test at the Curtin 27 University centre?---(indistinct), yep. 28 29 Is that where you took the test in March 2010?---Yes. 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 148 58

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If we just scroll down to your scores in relation to that 1 test, we can see there that you got a very high listening 2 score, an eight - - -?---Yes. 3 4 - - - which is one off the top band?---Yep. 5 6 And then you got sixes for reading and writing and you got 7 a 6.5 for speaking with an overall band score of 6.5? 8 ---Yep. 9 10 That test confirms that you had the right band score for 11 the other visas that you had applied for but that would not 12 be something that you could submit with a permanent 13 residency application?---Residency - yep. 14 15 The Commission has information, just to put this in 16 context, that on the day that you took that test, on 17 27 March 2010, both Keyur Patel and Tasha - - -?---Tushar. 18 19 - - - Tushar Patel took the test as well?---I think so. I 20 don't remember, but yeah - - - 21 22 Perhaps if I can ask you this: at around this time what 23 was the purpose for you taking the test again in March of 24 last year? Why were you taking the IELTS test again?---I 25 was attempting this test to score seven band in all the 26 modules. 27 28 For the purposes of applying for permanent residency? 29 ---Permanent residency. 30 31 In relation to Keyur Patel and Tushar Patel do you know 32 whether they were taking it for the same purpose? Is that 33 something you discussed?---Yes. 34 35 Prior to taking the test in March of last year did you have 36 any discussions with people in relation to a way of 37 arranging that you would be guaranteed the seven band 38 scores?---Yes, I knew. I knew in, say, January - end of 39 January or the beginning of February. 40 41 So the end of January or the beginning of February you 42 became aware that there was a way of getting the seven band 43 scores?---Yep. 44 45 Just tell the Commission who gave you that information? 46 ---Rajesh Kumar. 47 48 Rajesh Kumar?---Yep. 49 50 Who was Rajesh Kumar? How did you know him?---I used to 51 work with the Town of East Fremantle and it was for like 52 two or two and a half months for school holiday program, 53 where he came from the TAFE as a volunteer to help with 54 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 149 57 10.55 58

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the school holiday program, so that's why I came to know 1 him actually. 2 3 How long before late January, early February 2010 had you 4 met Rajesh Kumar?---I met him in December 2009. 5 6 December 2009?---Yep. 7 8 So that two-month - the period where he was a volunteer at 9 the Town of East Fremantle - have I got that place right? 10 ---That's right, yep. 11 12 Was it during the time that he was there as a volunteer 13 that you had a conversation with him about IELTS tests? 14 ---Yes; yep. 15 16 So you had met him sometime - you had met him late the year 17 before?---Yeah. 18 19 And while he was there - was it towards the end of the time 20 that he was there that you had this conversation? 21 ---Yes; yep. 22 23 Just tell the Commissioner what, to the best of your 24 memory, the conversation was between the two of you?---I 25 remember like we were out with our clients somewhere in the 26 park and he came to me - like he was asking for my regional 27 status and everything, like because I was - like I almost 28 finish my study; I mean, I finish in December 2009, so he 29 was like, "What's your next plan?" and everything. So I 30 told him everything, that I'm trying to get my - I mean, 31 graduate visa application and (indistinct) and all those 32 and then after like five or 10 minutes he was like, "I know 33 - I can arrange - I mean, if you want seven bands in IELTS, 34 if you are struggling to get those calls I can get it for 35 you, I mean, if you pay $10,000," or something. 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 150 57

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Yes?---I didn't even like think of it, because I knew 1 there's nothing like that; so I just ignored him. I didn't 2 say anything. 3 4 So he said to you that he knows a way to seven bands for an 5 IELTS test?---Yeah. 6 7 If you paid $10,000?---$10,000, yeah. 8 9 Did he say how he could arrange that to happen?---No, he 10 didn't say anything. 11 12 Did he say where the testing was that he could arrange for 13 that to happen?---No, he didn't say anything of the visa 14 either. 15 16 At that time?---Yeah. 17 18 Did you have a conversation with him again later about that 19 conversation that you had had with Rajesh Kumar? 20 ---Actually, I didn't believe him, so later on he sent me 21 his IELTS report, the result, to email and said like, "Look 22 at these results here, I got this seven bands." I was 23 shocked actually, because it was in the Curtin University 24 and I didn't (indistinct) apparently, my friend Keyur Kumar 25 Patel, he was looking for - I mean, he was trying his best, 26 because I mean he's struggling for English, so he was - I 27 told him and I showed him the email from Rajesh and he was 28 like, "Can you contact him for me and everything for that?" 29 and I was like - so - - - 30 31 Just to be clear, after you had had this conversation you 32 didn't believe that he was able to organise the seven 33 bands?---Yeah. 34 35 And then he emailed you a copy of a test report form for 36 him that had seven bands across it?---Seven bands, yeah. 37 38 What did he say about that in the email when he sent it to 39 you?---I think he didn't type anything. I don't know, it 40 was just the form, I mean that result I think. 41 42 Did you see where the results were from?---Yeah, it was in 43 Curtin University, like the test was taken from Curtin 44 University. 45 46 And you knew that as an IELTS centre because you had taken 47 a test there before?---A test there before as well, yeah. 48 49 You showed that, I think you said to your friend Keyur 50 Patel?---Yeah. 51 52 And he asked you whether you could arrange for him to be 53 able to get seven bands?---Seven bands, yeah. 54 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 151 57 10.59 58

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Because he was struggling to get them?---To get these - - - 1 2 What happened then?---Then I asked Rajesh like, "Can you do 3 that for my friend, not for me?" He was like, he didn't 4 answer like straightaway because he was like, "See, that's 5 only for you," I mean, you know, I don't want to tell 6 anyone and blah, blah, blah, so I was like, "See, he's a 7 genuine person, if you want to help him, otherwise it's 8 fine," I mean, and then later on he said, "Yeah, that's 9 fine, I can do that, that for him." 10 11 Okay, so the first time you had a conversation with Rajesh 12 Kumar was, I think you said, about this issue was in late 13 January, early February?---Mm. 14 15 How long after that conversation did he provide you with a 16 copy of his IELTS test report form with seven bands?---It 17 wasn't so long, I think in February itself, and yeah, I 18 don't remember when he emailed me, which date, actually. 19 20 But it wasn't long after?---Yeah, it wasn't. 21 22 How long after you approached him on behalf of Keyur Patel 23 did he say to you that he would be able to help Keyur Patel 24 get seven bands?---Yeah, I think within a week, he was 25 like, "I had to talk to the person and then I let you know" 26 and everything, because according to the - according to get 27 that score you've got to give him enough time, I mean like 28 all the details and the date, which date he wants him to 29 appear for the exam. 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 152 57

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Right?---So he was like, "I'll let you know which date and 1 how, I give you all the information how you" - you know, 2 how it's going to happen and everything. 3 4 That time did Rajesh Kumar tell you anything about how he 5 was able to arrange for the test scores to be obtained? 6 ---I ask him and he said, "Sorry, I can't tell you the 7 detail." 8 9 Did he tell you whether or not there was another person 10 involved that he had to deal with?---Yeah, yeah, he said 11 that. He said, "There's a guy I'm in - I know someone in 12 Curtin who can arrange that," and I said like, "Who is 13 that? Who is that person?" and he was like, "You don't 14 need to worry about that." 15 16 So he told you that there was a person in Curtin but he 17 didn't tell you who it was?---Yeah, yeah. 18 19 In relation to this test of Keyur Patel what was the price, 20 if you like, that he was asking for in order for those test 21 scores to be obtained?---As you're - the $10,000. 22 23 Did you know - was there any discussion as to whether or 24 not Rajesh Kumar and the other person shared the money or 25 whether one person got all of it or whether they divided 26 it? Was anything like that explained to you?---Rajesh said 27 that that person is asking for that $10,000, there's no - 28 any part of - like, "I'm not taking any money out of it." 29 30 Okay, so that's what - - - ?---He was like, "I'm just 31 helping you," and I was like, "Yeah, fair enough." I mean, 32 you know - - - 33 34 That's what he told you?---Yeah, that's what he told me. 35 36 But I take it you had no way of knowing whether or not he 37 was in fact keeping any?---Yeah, I - yeah. 38 39 Okay. After he had said he could do that, how was the test 40 organised and was the money paid?---Yeah, he asked for cash 41 money. He say - I say like, "Give me the - give me your 42 account detail, I'll give it to Keyur and he will transfer, 43 or I don't know, whatever suits you guys." He said, "No, 44 just give me the cash money. I can't take any" - and I was 45 like, "Yeah, all right," and then he asked for all the 46 details from Keyur like his passport number and - and he 47 said, "Yeah, I booked that date, the" - I'm not sure 48 whether it was in March. I think it was in March 49 somewhere, and he asked to book one test and Keyur gave him 50 his candidate number, passport number and the scores that 51 he wanted, I think. 52 53 54 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 153 55 11.04 56

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After you had contacted Rajesh Kumar about Keyur Patel 1 obtaining the seven bands did Keyur Patel meet Rajesh Kumar 2 directly?---Yes, actually he came with me when he hand over 3 the money. 4 5 Okay, and when he handed over the money was that when he 6 provided the information about his passport and what scores 7 he wanted and those sorts of things?---Yep. 8 9 Where did that happen?---It was in city near to the bell 10 tower actually, at the night-time. 11 12 Were you with Keyur Patel when he got the money?---Yep. 13 14 Do you remember when he obtained the money? Was it before 15 or after the test day?---Before. 16 17 Before?---Yeah. 18 19 I'll just show you triple C exhibit 0504. I'm going to 20 show you a bank account record now, Mr Vaishnani. It's not 21 yours, it's Keyur Patel's?---All right. 22 23 But I just want to ask you about one entry in it. If we go 24 to the second page, you will see at the bottom of that page 25 on 25 March 2010 there's a withdrawal of $10,000. Do you 26 see that?---Yep. 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 154 57

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That date, 25 March 2010, is that around the date that you 1 recall going to the cash machine with Mr Patel and 2 obtaining the money?---Sorry, no. I didn't go with him. 3 4 Okay?---Yeah. The money was already with him when I came - 5 came home and he asked me like, "Money's - money's with me. 6 If you - whenever you want to go, I'll - - -" 7 8 Okay, that can be put away. So he had $10,000 in 9 cash - - -?---Yep. 10 11 - - - when you got home and he said, "I've now got the 12 money. We can take it to Mr Kumar"?---Yep. 13 14 Or Rajesh?---Rajesh, yep. 15 16 And you went into the city and met Rajesh with Mr - - -? 17 ---Keyur. 18 19 - - - Keyur Patel - - -?---Yep. 20 21 - - - and the money was handed over?---Sure. 22 23 And you said that that was before the test that you took? 24 ---Yep; yep. 25 26 That he took?---He took, yeah. 27 28 Do you know whether or not Keyur Patel received the scores 29 that he wanted?---Yes, he received it. 30 31 Okay?---Yeah, result was mailed - I mean, the post. By 32 post. 33 34 And it was by post - - -?---By post. 35 36 - - - and you were living at his address so you saw the 37 form?---Yeah; yeah. 38 39 Which is zero - - -?---Hold on a sec. I think we went to 40 university to collect it. I don't remember. Sorry, yeah. 41 42 I showed you earlier a test report form for 43 yourself - - -?---Yep. 44 45 - - - of the 27th for a test on 27 March 2010?---10, yep. 46 47 And you received an overall band score of 6.5 at that 48 time?---Yep. 49 50 Do you remember how you got your test result for that? Did 51 you go into the university or was it posted to you? 52 ---Yes, I now - yeah, I recall that. Yeah, I went to the 53 university actually to collect it. 54 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 155 57 11.0958

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Do you remember whether you were with anybody when you did 1 that?---With Keyur. 2 3 Okay?---Yeah, sorry about that. 4 5 So you obtained yours which had 6.5?---Yeah. 6 7 You had not paid any money, you just took the test?---Yep. 8 9 And Keyur received his?---Yep. 10 11 And what did his show?---Seven bands in all modules, all 12 the modules. 13 14 CCC bar code 0926. Do you recognise that as Keyur Patel? 15 ---Yep. 16 17 And that's a test report form for the same date as you took 18 the test on 27 March?---Yep. 19 20 And if we scroll down, you will see he had 7.5 for 21 listening and then sevens across the other bands and an 22 overall band score of seven?---Seven, yep. 23 24 Is that the copy that you saw?---Yep. 25 26 And after you saw that, what did you conclude about whether 27 or not - about Rajesh Kumar's claims about the band 28 scores?---I said, "All right, you did it." I mean, yeah, 29 it happened and - - - 30 31 When he said that he could get band scores of seven, just 32 to be quite clear about this, did you understand him to be 33 saying he was able to get scores that were false; that is, 34 scores that didn't reflect what a person really scored in 35 the tests?---Yes. 36 37 In terms of Keyur Patel's desire to get the band scores, 38 you said he was struggling. How was his English compared 39 to you in terms of the attempts that both of you were 40 making to get the scores?---If I'm not wrong, he always - I 41 mean, he scored 5.5 and five or 5.5 in most of the 42 attempts. 43 44 Right. So he had scored less than you had in the other 45 attempts?---Yeah. 46 47 And judging by the scores that you got, for example, 48 getting an eight for listening, you were hopeful that you 49 would be able to sevens?---To get seven, yep. 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 156 58

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Do you know where Keyur Patel had done the test before when 1 you said you thought he was getting 5.5s?---It was in 2 Curtin University maybe more than a couple of times or - 3 and once he was - yeah; he went to the UWA. 4 5 He went to UWA?---Yeah. 6 7 Were you aware that there was an IELTS centre at UWA as 8 well?---Yeah, I was. In EDU as well I - because I - the 9 very first time was with EDU or in Joondalup Campus - - - 10 11 That's Edith Cowan University in Joondalup Campus. Is that 12 right?---Curtin? 13 14 No, no. ECU in Joondalup?---Sorry, ECU not EDU. 15 16 That's all right?---Yeah. 17 18 So you have taken tests at other centres as well?---As 19 well, yeah. 20 21 After that testing on 27 March, firstly, what was your 22 reaction to having scored 6.5 as an overall band score? 23 ---Yeah. I was disappointed and I made up my mind, like, 24 I'll go for another one. 25 26 You will go for another test?---Another test, yeah. 27 28 Did you decide that you would do anything before taking 29 that other test?---I - I mean, I tried other way as well, 30 like I applied for state sponsorship which I had 31 fortunately and unfortunately I didn't use it. Anyway, 32 yeah, and then I - yeah, I went - I think I booked - I 33 don't remember whether like between June and March I 34 appeared for another one, I don't remember exactly but 35 yeah, then I started preparing for it actually. I told 36 like if I prepare seriously I may - I might get it. 37 38 So you decided to prepare, to try it again?---Try it again, 39 yeah. 40 41 Did you have another conversation with Rajesh Kumar about 42 it?---After that no, I didn't; no. He said to me, like, 43 "Don't tell about this to anyone, like don't - like even 44 your best, best friends, don't ever disclose this matter to 45 anyone." 46 47 That was getting the result for Keyur Patel. Is that 48 right?---Yep; yep. 49 50 After Keyur Patel's results and leading up to you trying 51 the test again - - -?---Yep. 52 53 - - - did you then approach Rajesh Kumar again?---Yes, I 54 did. 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 157 57 11.14 58

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Why did you approach Rajesh Kumar?---For another friend, 1 Tushar. 2 3 Tushar Patel?---Tushar Patel. 4 5 What about for you?---I said, "I might" - because I didn't 6 have money, so I said, "I might do it but I'm not sure 7 whether I'm going to do it or not," and he said, 8 "All right, but you got to let me know before like 15 days" 9 - or I don't know he said something - yeah; he gave me a 10 certain time. 11 12 So what had Tushar Patel said to you?---Because when he 13 show Keyur's result, he's got seven and he was like, 14 "All right" - because he was struggling as well and he 15 said, "Yeah. I'll do it. I'll go for that." 16 17 "I'll go for that," and by that you mean?---Like, "Yeah. I 18 pay the $10,000 and get the result." 19 20 Okay?---Yep. 21 22 That he will do what Keyur Patel did and pay the $10,000 to 23 Rajesh Kumar?---Yep. 24 25 You at that point were still in two minds about it? 26 ---Yeah, I was - yeah, two minds, because at the same time, 27 as I said, I didn't really need seven when I had the state 28 sponsorship, so I was thinking like, "What should I do?" 29 but the state sponsorship really was long for me, I mean, 30 to go to some regional area and everything, because I was 31 here with my friends and I had a nice job here, so I didn't 32 want to go anywhere. So I was fifty-fifty and then yeah, I 33 arranged money as well for myself and yeah, I ask Rajesh 34 Kumar for me and Tushar at the same time. 35 36 So you eventually arranged some money for yourself?---Yep. 37 38 And you asked Rajesh for you and Tushar at the same 39 time - - -?---Yep. 40 41 That you would give the $10,000 for each of you?---Yep. 42 43 And take the test again?---Yep. 44 45 How did you tell Rajesh the details for the examination? 46 ---I send SMS. 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 158 58

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Sent him an SMS message? What did you include in the SMS 1 message?---My - the test ID to which he (indistinct) the 2 bars and passport, my full name, and he ask like, "Whatever 3 score you want" - I mean, I just put a random, I didn't 4 really think of what I'm getting, so yeah, the scores 5 and - - - 6 7 Okay, if we can put up 1052. If we just go over onto the 8 side. 9 10 This is a printout of SMSs from what's shown as Ricken's 11 iPhone, is that what your iPhone is called?---Yeah. 12 13 If we go onto the second page, there are two entries - if 14 you can see on the last column, the entries with the 15 numbers 1207 and 1208. See them on the bottom of the 16 screen?---Yeah. 17 18 They are outgoing SMS messages to a phone number identified 19 as Rajesh?---Yeah. 20 21 Do you see that? The first one, which is 1207, has your 22 name, candidate number, passport number, date of birth and 23 various scores for listening, speaking, reading and 24 writing?---Yeah. 25 26 Is that the email that you sent to, is that what was in the 27 email, sorry, the SMS that you sent to - - -?---To Rajesh, 28 yeah. 29 30 Rajesh, and then there's another one sent shortly after it, 31 you will see the date, 31 May, the first was at 2.47 in the 32 afternoon and the next is at 2.55. There's Tusharkumar 33 Patel and his candidate numbers and those details as well?-34 --Yeah. 35 36 You sent that SMS as well?---Yeah. 37 38 Where did you obtain - firstly, how was the money exchanged 39 in relation to those tests for you and for Tushar Patel?---40 It was like - Tushar gave me his money and I took mine as 41 well and I went to the city to catch up with two others and 42 I hand over the money near to the Perth train station. 43 44 Near the Perth train station?---Yeah. 45 46 So you had Tushar's money?---Yeah. 47 48 And you also had yours?---Yeah. 49 50 So how much money did you have in total on that day? 51 ---$20,000. 52 53 $20,000 in cash?---Yeah. 54 55 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 159 56 11.19 57

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You met Rajesh Kumar near the train station?---Yeah. 1 2 And what happened at the meeting?---He, because he finished 3 his work and he had to go somewhere else very quickly, so I 4 just hand over the money. He counted it and, yeah, he 5 just - - - 6 7 Where were you? Were you in a room or out in the open? 8 ---In the carpark. 9 10 In the carpark, near the train station?---Yeah. 11 12 You said that you had some difficulty earlier with money? 13 ---Yeah. 14 15 How did you arrange the $10,000?---I borrowed some from my 16 friends, yeah. 17 18 And did you have some of your own?---I had myself some as 19 well. 20 21 How much of your own money were you able to use?---I 22 remember I borrowed 5000 from my friend, so that means I 23 had 5000, I think. 24 25 If I just put up 0517, so this is a copy of Mr Vaishnani's 26 bank statement. It has his address on it, and I would ask 27 that his address not be the subject of any publication. 28 29 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Yes, I make an order that 30 Mr Vaishnani's address as it appears on any documents not 31 be published. 32 33 QUINLAN, MR: Mr Vaishnani, do you have a bank account 34 with the Commonwealth Bank?---Yeah. 35 36 If we go to page 3 of this bank statement, you will see 37 that on 31 May, which is the day that you sent the two SMSs 38 to Rajesh Kumar, there are withdrawals of $500 then $1500 39 and then $500. Do you see them?---Yeah. 40 41 What were those withdrawals for?---I think that's what I 42 was, yeah, looking for me $10,000. 43 44 So that formed part of the $10,000 - - -?---$10,000. 45 46 - - - that you borrowed from other people?---I had the 47 money and, yeah, I borrowed other from my - yeah. 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 160 58

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You went to the test on - you went to the test shortly 1 after?---Yep. 2 3 Did both you and Tushar - - - ?---Tushar. 4 5 Went to the test?---Yep. 6 7 Did you later receive a test report form in relation to 8 that second test that you'd taken, or the second test for 9 that year that you had taken?---I - I did receive a test 10 form through - first and I didn't get the right band, I 11 mean, the one like for the money that I paid for, so I - I 12 think immediately I rang Rajesh and ask him like, "Is 13 everything all right," like what happened and everything. 14 15 Okay, so firstly you said that you received a report form 16 and it didn't have the band that you had asked for?---Yep. 17 18 And that you had paid the money for?---For. 19 20 0685: you see that this is the test report form for 5 June 21 2010, and if we go down the page it was issued - sorry, the 22 bottom of the first page - on 16 June 2010 and it had an 23 overall band score of 6. Is that the report form that you 24 received?---Yep. 25 26 How did you get that? Was that in the mail or did you go 27 and pick it up?---The mail. 28 29 You got that in the mail?---Yeah. 30 31 So you received that, and what was your reaction?---I was 32 like - I mean I just straightaway rang Rajesh. 33 34 And you said?---Yeah, I didn't - I mean, I didn't get the 35 bands that I paid for. 36 37 What did he say?---He said, "Give me some time. I'll let 38 you know." 39 40 What happened after that?---He just kept giving me the 41 dates like where I'll do something for you, and by the 42 Monday I'll do something for you by Friday, and just kept 43 on going on and one day he text me or he rang me, I don't 44 remember. He was like, "Go to Curtin University, issue 45 another copy of your IELTS and you will get it." Then I 46 went to the university, I asked for another copy of result 47 and it wasn't done so I again - - - 48 49 So let me just take you back a little?---Yep. 50 51 He told you go to Curtin University?---Yep. 52 53 To ask for another test report form?---Yep. 54 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 161 57 11.24 58

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How long after you had received this one was it, 1 approximately?---10 or 15 - 15 days maybe. 2 3 Okay, so about two weeks?---Yeah. I'm not really sure, but 4 yeah. 5 6 He told you to go there and ask for another report form. 7 Did you have to pay to get that other report form?---Yes, I 8 had to. 9 10 How much did that cost?---$35. 11 12 How did you get that? Did you just go to the front desk 13 and ask for - - - ?---Yeah, ask for - - - 14 15 - - - a report form?---Yeah. 16 17 Did you get one?---Yep, I did. 18 19 What did you say about it when you got it?---I again rang 20 him and said, "It's the same score that I received before," 21 so he said - - - 22 23 So the same score that you received in the mail?---Yep. 24 25 If we just put up 0686 and if we just scroll down, again 26 you can see on that one it's 28 June 2010 so it's dated 27 12 days after the other one and it's got the same scores? 28 ---Yep. 29 30 Is that what you received when you went there to get 31 another test report form?---Yes. 32 33 And you rang Mr Kumar again, I think you said, and you 34 said, "It's the same as it was before"?---Yep. 35 36 Where did you ring him from? Were you still at the 37 university when you got it?---Yeah, I think I was still in 38 the carpark and - yeah. 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 162 57

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Yes?---I think he was busy, he didn't answer my call or, I 1 don't know, something happened and then next day he 2 contacted me again and said, "All right, give me some time 3 and I'll let you know again." 4 5 Just before I go to what happened next. Had the same thing 6 happened with Tushar Patel's scores?---Yeah. 7 8 And by "the same thing" I mean he had received scores that 9 suggested that - which were under the bands that he had 10 asked for?---Yep. 11 12 When you were making the arrangements to go back in and 13 telling Rajesh Kumar that you hadn't got the band scores 14 that you wanted, were you doing the same thing for Tushar 15 Patel as well?---Yeah. 16 17 At this time, just pausing for the moment, he has told you 18 to go back in?---Yeah. 19 20 At that time did he say anything to you - this is Rajesh 21 Kumar?---Yep. 22 23 About anything more about money?---Yes. After - but not 24 after this result. I don't know. He - he asked me for 25 another $1000 from both of us so that that makes it 2000. 26 So he said, "You have to pay another thousand. A thousand 27 dollar each." 28 29 So after you had got the scores that you hadn't paid for, 30 that is, you had got the 6.5 band?---Yeah. 31 32 And when you contacted him to tell him, he said that both 33 you and Tushar Patel would have to pay another thousand 34 dollars each?---Thousand dollars, yeah. 35 36 Which made how much in total that you were being asked to 37 pay?---2000. 38 39 2000?---Yeah. 40 41 And so for each of your scores you had each ended up paying 42 $11,000?---$11,000. 43 44 Or you were asked to pay $11,000. Were you asked to pay 45 the thousand dollars each before you went back to Curtin 46 University to get the second copy of the test report form?-47 --What happened - I think I went by myself there to take 48 this one and then the next time he was with me and I think 49 we issued another copy and then he asked me to stay into 50 the carpark. He was like, "Just stay there. I'll go in 51 and give me some time, I'll get your results," and after a 52 half an hour he - half an hour or an hour he came back and 53 he gave me the result. 54 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 163 57 11.29 58

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Okay?---And - yeah. 1 2 So after you got the second test report form which had the 3 6.5 band, you rang him?---Yeah. That's why I'm just a bit 4 confused whether he was with me or on the - because I 5 remember one - - - 6 7 You remember him being with you?---Yeah, because - - - 8 9 That is, Rajesh Kumar?---Yeah, because one - yeah, once he 10 was with me and he gave me that result. He handed over by 11 himself actually. He went in there and I don't know with 12 whom he spoke or anything, but he gave me the 7.5, seven, 13 seven, seven - that result. 14 15 If I show you that, it's 0688, you can see again it's for 16 the test on 5 June 2010 and if we scroll down, this is the 17 one that has 7.5, seven, seven, seven on it?---Yep. 18 19 With the overall band score of seven?---Yep. 20 21 And you can see it's a different signature to the last one 22 but it has the same date, 28 June?---June, yep. 23 24 Do you remember getting the test result form with the 25 overall band score of seven on the same day that you had 26 gone in to Curtin to get the second form?---Yeah. Yeah, 27 that's what I don't remember exactly. Whether I went - 28 because I know - I knew - like, I mean, I'm sorry. I know 29 I went there and paid $35 and I had the same score but I 30 don't remember whether that was the same day when he was 31 with me because one day he wasn't, so. 32 33 But when you got this document, how did you physically get 34 that document?---He handed over actually to me. 35 36 And where were you?---I was in carpark. 37 38 Of where?---Of Curtin University. 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 164 58

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So you and he were in the carpark of Curtin University? 1 ---Yep. 2 3 Did he leave you - I think you said earlier he left you to 4 go and get it?---He asked me to stay in the car and he went 5 in, like which office I don't know, and within half an hour 6 and an hour he came back with this result. 7 8 Did you get a similar form for Tushar Patel?---Yeah. 9 10 Was that at the same time?---The same time. 11 12 So you waited in the car in the carpark of Curtin 13 University?---Yep. 14 15 He went in, half an hour approximately later he came out 16 with the two test report forms?---Yep. 17 18 And he gave them to you?---Yep. 19 20 The additional $2000 that he referred to, was that paid? 21 ---No, it wasn't because I didn't have that with me and I 22 asked - I asked Tushar to pay to Rajesh actually because I 23 was busy with my work and I couldn't - - - 24 25 So Tushar - at the time that you got the forms you hadn't 26 paid the additional $2000 yet?---Yeah. I - yeah. 27 28 Did you have another thousand dollars for your own - - -? 29 ---Yeah; yeah. I - yeah, I did manage that. 30 31 You did manage it? Where did you get the other - the 32 additional - - -?---Because I started my work by that time, 33 like my full-time work. 34 35 You said that Tushar paid the $2000?---Yeah. I think he 36 paid mine as well and then I gave him later on, yeah. 37 38 So he paid the $2000 for both of you?---Yep. 39 40 You paid him back?---Yep. 41 42 Do you remember how the $2000 was paid? Was it in cash? 43 ---Yep. 44 45 Who gave the $2000 to Rajesh Kumar?---Tushar. 46 47 Tushar did?---Yep. 48 49 Were you there when he did that?---No, I wasn't. 50 51 Do you know where that happened?---He told me at that time 52 - I think they met in Curtin University again, because I 53 just gave Rajesh's number to Tushar and I asked him - like, 54 "Just contact him whenever you want to - - -" 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 165 57 11.34 58

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I think you said that you later paid Tushar back?---Yep. 1 2 If we look at document 0460 - again, sir, this is a bank 3 statement which your previous order would apply to. 4 5 You also had a bank account with the National Australia 6 Bank, and on the second page of that, if we scroll down, 7 there's an entry for 26 July 2010 where there's a transfer 8 that has "Internet transfer from Riken $800". Do you see 9 that?---Yep. 10 11 In relation to Tushar Patel's bank account it's shown that 12 on that date there was a transfer from your account with 13 that "from Riken" of $800?---All right. 14 15 Do you remember what that was for?---It could be the same, 16 yeah. I'm not sure because I - like often we like - I 17 mean, I borrow - or I just gave them our money so - I don't 18 remember - - - 19 20 But you recall paying him back?---Yep. 21 22 So that in the end both of you had paid $11,000?---Yep. 23 24 Did you use that test report form with the seven bands on 25 it or the overall band score of seven for the purposes of a 26 visa application?---Yep, I did. 27 28 You put that in for your general skilled migration - - -? 29 ---Yep. 30 31 Your 885 - - -?---Yep. 32 33 - - - permanent residency visa?---Yep, I did. 34 35 After you put that in did you receive a letter from IELTS 36 telling you something about the scores?---Yep, I received; 37 yeah. 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 166 58

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If we put up document 0692, you see that's a letter to you 1 dated 27 August 2010 which tells you that they are 2 cancelling the test result issued to you and are going to 3 reissue another?---Yeah. 4 5 You received that letter?---Yep, I did. 6 7 After you received that letter did you have any discussion 8 with Rajesh Kumar about it?---Yes, I asked him - like I 9 received that letter and he said, "I received the same 10 one," I think and - yeah. 11 12 Did you say anything about - or did you discuss what you 13 were going to do about it or anything of that nature?---I 14 didn't - I mean, I didn't say much about that because he 15 was like, "Sorry, I received the same one and I can't do 16 anything about it," and - and I asked like for money and 17 just for like what happened and he was like, "I have no 18 idea. The person that I knew in Curtin has gone and so I'm 19 not any more in contact with that person and so everything, 20 I mean, that's gone," and I was like, "All right," then I 21 started preparing for my other test actually. 22 23 So he told you that the person he knew at Curtin wasn't 24 there any more?---Yeah. 25 26 He didn't have the contact there any more, effectively? 27 ---Yeah. 28 29 And you carried on to try and attempt another test? 30 ---Yeah. 31 32 Did you know any employees at the Curtin language - Curtin 33 English language centre?---No, not myself, no. 34 35 You heard obviously from Rajesh Kumar and then found out 36 that it was possible to get false test results for a 37 payment at that centre?---Yeah. 38 39 Had you heard anything like that happening at other IELTS 40 centres in Perth?---No. 41 42 No?---No. Actually I ask him like where - because I appear 43 to want it issue Joondalup so I ask like can I take there 44 or - and he said, "No, it has to be at Curtin." 45 46 So when you were dealing with him in relation to getting 47 the test results that you wanted he said it had to be at 48 Curtin?---Curtin, yeah. 49 50 Do you know where Rajesh Kumar is now?---No, I have no 51 idea. 52 53 You have no idea. Sir, I've no further questions for 54 55 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 167 56 11.39 57

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Mr Vaishnani. Can I say in relation to one of the exhibits 1 that I put up it was the exhibit 1052 which was a document 2 containing SMS texts which is on a Commission document 3 showing that report, and I would ask that that document not 4 be the subject of publication both because it has some 5 investigative material on it and also because it has a 6 number of SMS messages which are wholly irrelevant to the 7 investigation. 8 9 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: I make that order. That will be 10 I think the third order for suppression I have made in 11 these proceedings, and I just remind everybody it's 12 important to comply with those orders. After we resume 13 after lunch I will read out all of those orders for 14 clarity. Thank you, Mr Quinlan. Do you have any further 15 questions? 16 17 QUINLAN, MR: I have no further questions. 18 19 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Can Mr Vaishnani be excused from 20 further attendance? 21 22 QUINLAN, MR: He can be, sir. 23 24 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Vaishnani, you can 25 be excused from further attendance. 26 27

(THE WITNESS WITHDREW) 28 29 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr Quinlan? 30 31 QUINLAN, MR: Sir, Ms Pantano will conduct the next 32 examination. 33 34 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Ms Pantano? 35 36 PANTANO, MS: Sir, calling Mr Harinder Jit. 37 38 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Can Mr Harinder Jit come 39 forward, please. 40 41 JIT, HARINDER called: 42 43 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Can you take a seat, please. 44 Mr Jit, by section 138 subsection (1) of the triple C Act 45 before conducting an examination of you for the purposes of 46 an investigation under the act I am required to inform you 47 of the general scope and purposes of the investigation 48 unless in the circumstances I consider it is undesirable to 49 do so. I do not consider it undesirable and I will read to 50 you the general scope and purpose as follows. The general 51 scope and purpose is to determine (1) if any public officer 52 or former public officer employed by Curtin University of 53 Technology has engaged in misconduct in connection with the 54 conduct of the international English 55 56 22/3/11 VAISHNANI, R.J. XN 168 57 JIT, H. XN 58

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language testing system; (2) whether the policies, 1 practices and operating environment of the Curtin 2 University English Language Centre were sufficient to 3 detect misconduct in a timely manner; and (3) whether the 4 international English language testing system has been 5 compromised at testing centres operated by any other public 6 authorities. Do you understand the general scope and 7 purpose?---(indistinct) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 169 57

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Before your examination begins I require you to take an 1 oath or an affirmation. Which one would you prefer to 2 take?---I take the affirmation. 3 4 Okay. Can I ask you to stand please and the affirmation 5 will be administered. 6 7 JIT, HARINDER affirmed: 8 9 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Can you take a seat 10 again please? I think when being served with a summons to 11 appear here today, you were also given a notice to witness. 12 Is that correct?---Yes. 13 14 Perhaps if you just lean a bit forward please. That notice 15 explained your rights and obligations as a witness?---Yes. 16 17 You have read through that notice?---Yes. 18 19 You have signed it?---Yes. 20 21 And you understand it?---Yep. 22 23 Thank you. Yes, Ms Pantano? 24 25 PANTANO, MS: Thank you. 26 27 Mr Jit, your full name is Harinder Jit?---Yes. 28 29 Mr Jit, where were you born?---In India. 30 31 What date did you arrive in Australia?---I arrived in 32 January 28 in 2007. 33 34 2007, and what was the purpose of your entry into 35 Australia?---I was on a student visa for study. 36 37 A student visa, right. What are your qualifications, both 38 from India, if applicable, and in Australia?---In India I 39 did the graduation, then a post-graduation diploma and then 40 I came here for a masters. 41 42 Sorry, what was that graduate diploma in?---In India. That 43 was computer science. Computer applications. 44 45 And you did a masters degree in Australia?---In Australia. 46 47 And that was in?---Computer science. 48 49 Computer science. Are you currently employed?---Yes. 50 51 What is your current employment?---I'm working in Coles. 52 53 Right; and former employment within Australia?---No. 54 55 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 170 56 11.44 57

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No former employment? No previous employment?---No. 1 2 No? Okay. You said you were on a graduate visa? 3 ---Graduate visa. 4 5 Right. Do you have any pending applications with the 6 Department of Immigration and Citizenship?---Yes, for 7 permanent application. 8 9 Permanent application?---(indistinct) 10 11 For permanent residency?---Permanent residency application. 12 13 When did you submit that application?---In 2009. Probably 14 November. 15 16 Sorry?---November 2009. 17 18 November 2009. 19 20 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Excuse me, Mr Jit. Can you just 21 lean forward a little bit. We're not quite picking up your 22 voice?---Sorry. 23 24 PANTANO, MS: If we could have Commission bar code 25 document 0296 please and if we can have page 12. 0296, and 26 page number 12. 27 28 Mr Jit, if you can have a look at the screen in front of 29 you. Does that look like an application form in relation 30 to your permanent residency?---Yeah. 31 32 If we could just scroll down to the bottom of that page, 33 you can see that's your name at the bottom?---Yes. 34 35 And your date of birth and it says you're married?---Yep. 36 37 What is your wife's name?---Simarpreet. Simarpreet Kaur. 38 39 How does she spell her surname, sorry?---S-i-m-a-r-p-r-e-e-40 t. 41 42 Right. Does she live with you?---Yes. 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 171 57

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In Australia?---In Australia. 1 2 Right. Okay, if we can go to page 14 please. 3 4 If you begin to scroll down under Spouse/de facto details, 5 they are your wife's details?---Yes, that's right. 6 7 And if we could go to page 24 please. 8 9 If you could just scroll down so we can see the form 10 qualifications, they're your overseas qualifications? 11 ---Yeah. 12 13 You obtained in India - sorry, if we could just scroll up a 14 bit to the Australian qualifications - they are the 15 qualifications you obtained in Australia?---Yeah. 16 17 If we can go to page 26 please, page 26. 18 19 It says there in the second box or band, if you like, "Have 20 you undertaken an English test within the last 24 months" 21 and you have responded yes?---Yes. 22 23 And the name of the test is an IELTS test and the date of 24 the test is 5 September 2009. That's correct?---Yeah, 25 that's right. 26 27 Did you fill out this form?---Yeah, I did myself. 28 29 With anybody else's assistance?---No, just by myself and 30 with my wife, she was with me. 31 32 With your wife? Okay. Then if we can go to page 28 33 please, about halfway down the page. If we can scroll 34 down. 35 36 Now, where it says Declaration for Applicants, you can see 37 there it says, "Warning under the Migration Act 1958, there 38 are penalties for deliberately giving false or misleading 39 information." Did you type the yes in there? 40 ---Yes. 41 42 So you understood what that declaration meant?---Yeah. 43 44 If we can then go to exhibit 0651 please, page 1 of that 45 document. 46 47 Do you recognise that as your test report form?---Yes. 48 49 You obtained from the test you sat on 5 September 2009, 50 which was referred to in your permanent residency 51 application we just showed you prior - if you could just 52 scroll down - so the test you sat was on 5 September. Do 53 you recall where you sat that test?---In Curtin University. 54 55 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 172 56 11.49 57

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Curtin University? It's got there a previous test date, 1 11 July 2009 - so if you could just scroll up a little bit 2 - just where it says "Previous test date" 11 July 2009 and 3 where it says "Previous test centre" it's blank. Where did 4 you sit that previous test?---I think that was in ECU in 5 Australia. 6 7 In Australia? Okay. If we can scroll down to the bottom 8 of the page where it says the date of the test report form, 9 being 23 September 2009. 10 11 Can you confirm that this is the test report form you 12 submitted in support of your permanent residency 13 application?---That's the one. 14 15 Right. Do the scores on this test report form accurately 16 reflect the scores that you obtained in your test that you 17 sat on 5 September?---No, that's the test results I paid 18 for. 19 20 Right, and can you give us a little bit more information 21 about how it came to be that you paid for those scores? 22 ---I paid to one of my friends who used to work with me. 23 24 Right?---His name is Pritesh Shah. 25 26 Pritesh Shah, was it?---Pretish Shah, yes. 27 28 Right?---And he told me that he can - (indistinct) was 29 giving the test on those days, so I booked like about four 30 or five tests, I go through for these sort of tests, and 31 then he used to work with me and I told - I used to talk 32 with him all the time. 33 34 What did you used to talk with him about, sorry?---I mean, 35 for general matters and these sort of stuff like going for 36 tests and - and then he told me like he knows someone, he 37 can get money and give you your scores, (indistinct) 38 scores. 39 40 Right, so he knew you had sat previous IELTS tests?---Yes. 41 42 And had you got the marks that you were after? In your 43 previous test that you had sat, had you obtained the marks 44 that you wanted?---No, I was missed one of them. 45 46 Right?---So that's why I need a seven in each. 47 48 Okay, so if I'm right Shah approached you and said that he 49 knew somewhere that you could get your results changed to 50 what you wanted?---Yeah, because he used to work with me 51 and he talked to me like he knew someone who can help you, 52 and then he told me everything and did everything for me. 53 54 Okay. Now, if we can just go back, did he say where you 55 could get these results changed?---He said you just have 56 57 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 173 58

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to go and take the test in Curtin. 1 2 At Curtin?---Curtin, yeah, and then he knows someone whose 3 friend or something and he will change your marks and give 4 you your required marks, whatever you need. 5 6 Did he say who could change those scores?---No, he didn't 7 say anything. He said, "He's my friend and then his 8 friend" or something. He didn't say the name or anything. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 174 58

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Okay. Did you ask him who it was?---No, I didn't. 1 2 So how did it come about then that after he told you, "I 3 can get these scores that you want" - what happened next? 4 ---He told me to like book a test in Curtin. 5 6 At Curtin?---And I book a test, yeah, and then I book a 7 test in Curtin on 5 September and then I gave him my 8 details, my candidate number, and then I paid him the money 9 and then I receive this result. 10 11 Did he say to you that you needed to pay him money before 12 getting the results you wanted?---Yes. 13 14 How much did he say you had to pay?---About 25 hundred. 15 16 About 25 hundred?---Yeah. 17 18 How was that to be paid?---He didn't say anything but I pay 19 in cash. 20 21 Okay, and when did you pay that money?---Before the test. 22 23 Before the test, and where did you pay it?---I think 24 outside of the bank. 25 26 Okay?---Or I think - I can't remember, maybe at the job, at 27 the work. 28 29 How did you get the information to Shah? So your candidate 30 number you said you had to give him. What other 31 information did you have to give him?---My candidate 32 number, my name and I think my passport number. 33 34 Your password - - - ?---Passport number. 35 36 Right, and did you have to tell him what scores you 37 wanted?---Yeah, just yeah I tell him like I need a seven in 38 each. 39 40 Okay, all right, and did Shah say - sorry, Mr Shah say who 41 the money was going to?---No, he didn't say. He said, 42 "It's someone I meet in Curtin University, he can change," 43 so that he didn't tell me any more about that. 44 45 Did he say whether he was going to keep some of the money 46 and divide the rest with whoever was changing the scores? 47 ---No, he just tell me like he's only helping me so he 48 didn't say anything. 49 50 If we could have exhibit number 0530, please - you can just 51 see at the top it has your name, Harinder Jit, and a bit 52 further down it says "Access advantage account". Do you 53 recognise that as one of your accounts with ANZ? At he top 54 it has Australian and New Zealand Banking Group 55 56 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 175 57 11.54 58

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Ltd?---Yeah, that's mine. 1 2 If we could then go to page 9, please, and if we can just 3 scroll down to the entry on 26 August - you can see that 4 entry there, Mr Jit. It's 26 August 2009 and it says a 5 card entry at Osborne Park branch - branch - and it's got 6 $1500 and that's in the debits column so that's a 7 withdrawal?---Yes. 8 9 Do you recognise that? Do you recall whether you paid 10 Mr Shah in two amounts, whether you had to make two 11 withdrawals, or whether you just made the one withdrawal? 12 ---I make this one and I can't remember, but I paid out 13 25 hundred. 14 15 Okay?---I think that's the one part of that. 16 17 Okay, so that's one part - if we could then have exhibit 18 number 0531, please. 19 20 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Mr Jit, sometimes your voice 21 gets a bit quiet. Can you either lean forward or bring the 22 microphone closer to you, and can you remember to speak up 23 a little bit, please. 24 25 PANTANO, MS: You can see on the top of that page your 26 name again, Harinder Jit, it's the Australian and New 27 Zealand Banking Group, so ANZ, and it's a progress saver 28 account. If we could go to page 2, please, again you'll 29 see on 26 August, the same date as on the previous account, 30 a card entry at Osborn Park branch - branch - and again 31 it's a $1500 withdrawal. Do you recall whether you paid 32 Mr Shah 2 and a half thousand dollars or was it $3000?---I 33 think it was 2 and a half or 3000. I can't really 34 remember. Maybe I want 1500 from that one and the half 35 from this account. 36 37 After you paid Mr Shah the money, that was prior to sitting 38 your test?---Yes. 39 40 What happened after that?---I mean, I just sit the test and 41 then I receive my require result, that's it. 42 43 You received - - - ?---The results, seven each result, my - 44 seven each band result. 45 46 How did you receive that test report form?---By email - I 47 mean in the post. 48 49 In the post?---Yeah. 50 51 Okay, and they were all the scores that you wanted. You 52 said bands of seven?---Yes. 53 54 And an overall score of seven?---Seven. 55 56 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 176 57

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Have you organised for any other person to have their IELTS 1 test scores changed?---No, I just did for my wife. 2 3 For your wife, okay. Can you tell the Commissioner a 4 little bit more about that?---She was trying to study here 5 so that's why she need the bands, and then we did the same 6 thing but we haven't applied for anything for any - - - 7 8 Okay, so did you approach Mr Shah or did he approach you? 9 ---He used to work with me for - so that we talk again and 10 he said, "Okay, I can do that." 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 177 57

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So you asked Mr Shah - - -?---Yes. 1 2 - - - if he could change your wife's scores?---Yes. 3 4 And what scores did she need?---Probably eight in every - 5 in every module. 6 7 In every band; and what did she need eights for?---For 8 study. 9 10 For study? So was it for an entry into a university 11 course?---Into university, yeah. 12 13 Do you know what university?---ECU. 14 15 ECU, and what was that to study?---For diploma in teaching. 16 17 Okay. You said it was while you were working with Shah, 18 while you were at work that you told him that your wife's 19 scores - you wanted those changed?---Yes. 20 21 And Shah said that he could change your wife's scores? 22 ---Yes. 23 24 What happened after that?---I did the same thing. I paid 25 him the money and then we received the result. 26 27 How much did he say he needed this time?---He said he need 28 more this time, about 3000 or 3200 and then I said, "Okay, 29 then we pay 3200." 30 31 Did he say why he needed more?---No, he didn't say. He 32 said, "The person, he asks more this time." 33 34 Okay. 35 36 If we could have exhibit 0543 please? And up the top again 37 you can see it's the Australian and New Zealand Banking 38 Group so ANZ, and is that your wife's name there? 39 Simapreet Kaur?---Yeah, that's right. 40 41 Kaur is it?---Yep. 42 43 It's an access advantage cheque account. If we could go to 44 page 5 please and if we can see the entry at 4 March 2010. 45 46 You can see there it says a card entry at Cannington 47 branch, $3200. That was a withdrawal, right?---Yeah, 48 that's the one there. 49 50 Did you make that withdrawal?---Yes. 51 52 53 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 178 54 11.5955

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Was your wife with you when you made the withdrawal? 1 ---Yes, she was with me. 2 3 And then how did you get the money to Mr Shah?---I just 4 handed it over to Mr Shah. 5 6 At the same time?---Same time, yes. 7 8 So he was with you when you went to withdraw the money? 9 ---He was - yeah, he - I mean, I withdraw then he came to 10 see me and then I gave it to him. 11 12 Right. In relation to the $3200, did Shah say that all of 13 that money was going to the person who was changing the 14 scores or that he was going to keep some of that money? 15 ---No, he didn't say anything. He just said he's going - 16 the person asked this time 3200, so going to - I mean, 17 he's - - - 18 19 It was your understanding that all of that money, as well 20 as the money you had paid to him for your score, all of 21 that money was going to the person changing your IELTS test 22 scores?---Yes, that's right. 23 24 Okay; and the 3200 paid to Mr Shah for your wife's test, 25 was that paid before your wife sat the test or after? 26 ---Before. 27 28 Before? Right, so you paid the money and then did you have 29 to send details - your wife's details to Mr Shah again, 30 like the same with yours?---Yes, I gave him my details. 31 32 How did you send those details?---I think I write it down 33 on the paper and just give it to him. 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 179 57

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You gave the same kind of details, so her name, her - - -?-1 --Her name, yeah - - - 2 3 And the scores of eight that she wanted?---Scores - yeah. 4 5 Again did you know who was changing the scores at this 6 time?---No. He didn't say anything about that. 7 8 Did Mr Shah say where your wife had to sit the test in 9 order to get those results?---Yeah. He said it should be 10 in Curtin University. 11 12 Then after your wife sat the test did she receive a test 13 report form?---Yes. 14 15 How did she receive that?---By post. 16 17 Did it have the scores of eight that she requested?---Yes. 18 19 If we could have exhibit number 0656 please. 20 21 Did you see the test report form of your wife's when it 22 arrived in the post?---Yes, I - - - 23 24 Does that look like the test report form that you received 25 in the mail?---Yeah. 26 27 That says the test date was 6 March 2010. If we just 28 scroll down to the results, you can see that she got scores 29 of eight in each band and an overall score of eight?---30 That's right. 31 32 Thank you. I no longer need that document. 33 34 You said you used to work with Mr Shah. Where did you work 35 with him?---At Coles petrol station at Langford. 36 37 At the time when you were working with him you did the same 38 shifts, so you were working at the same time? 39 ---Sometimes, not all the time. Sometimes I finish and 40 then he starts, then we talk a little bit. 41 42 So in between when you finish or he finishes and when you 43 or he starts, you spoke in between?---Yeah. 44 45 During the time when you were both either on at the same 46 time or you were swapping over shifts did you ever see or 47 hear Mr Shah speaking with any other people about changing 48 their IELTS test scores?---No. 49 50 Do you know whether Mr Shah has assisted any other person 51 to change test scores?---No, I have no idea, because he's 52 not my normal friend, because he's - normally he speak a 53 different language. Even when he talks on the phone I 54 can't understand what he is talking - - - 55 56 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 180 57 12.04 58

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Other than you and your wife, do you know of any other 1 person who has paid money to have their test scores 2 altered?---No, no idea. 3 4 Do you know any employee at Curtin University?---No. 5 6 Do you know whether you can pay to have your IELTS test 7 scores changed at any other testing centre?---No. He just 8 told me that they used to give him test - taking tests at 9 ECU but he told me to take the test at Curtin, so I just 10 did it at Curtin. 11 12 Mr Jit, do you know a person by the name of Abdul Kader? 13 ---Yes. I think he - yeah, he works with me as well. He 14 used to work with me in the same place. 15 16 At the Coles petrol station?---Yeah; yeah. 17 18 Do you know of his involvement with the changing of IELTS 19 test scores?---No, but I only know he's - Abdul is 20 Pritesh's very good friend. That's it. I have no 21 idea - - - 22 23 Did Mr Kader ever talk to you about changing your test 24 scores?---No. 25 26 Did he ever talk to you about changing any other person's 27 test scores?---No, he never talk to me about these sort of 28 matters. 29 30 Mr Jit, after receiving your altered test report form and 31 after your wife received her test report form with the 32 scores of eight, did you or your wife receive a letter from 33 IELTS regarding your test scores?---No, we haven't received 34 them. 35 36 Is there anything further that you wish to tell the 37 Commission today?---No. After that we haven't contacted 38 Pritesh - - - 39 40 You haven't contacted Pritesh?---We haven't, because he 41 left the job and then after that I - a year - more than a 42 year we haven't contacted - - - 43 44 No further questions, Mr Jit. There's no problem with him 45 being released from his summons. 46 47 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Thank you for coming, Mr Jit. 48 You are released from your summons and excused from further 49 attendance. Thank you. You are free to go. 50 51

(THE WITNESS WITHDREW) 52 53 54 55 56 57 22/3/11 JIT, H. XN 181 58

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QUINLAN, MR: If it pleases you, sir, Ms Harries will 1 conduct the next examination but if I could ask for a brief 2 five-minute adjournment before she does that. 3 4 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Certainly. We will adjourn for 5 five minutes. 6 7

____________________ 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 22/3/11 QUINLAN SC, MR 182 58

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THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Yes, Ms Harries? 1 2 HARRIES, MS: Thank you, sir. Sir, the next witness is 3 Vishal Pandya. 4 5 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: I call Mr Pandya, if you can 6 come forward please. 7 8 PANDYA, VISHAL called: 9 10 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Have a seat please?-11 --Thank you. 12 13 Mr Pandya, by section 138 subsection (1) of the CCC Act 14 before conducting an examination of you for the purposes of 15 an investigation under the act, I am required to inform you 16 of the general scope and purposes of the investigation, 17 unless in the circumstances I consider it is undesirable to 18 do so. I don't consider it is undesirable. I will now 19 inform you of the general scope and purpose. The general 20 scope and purpose is to determine (1) if any public officer 21 or former public officer employed by Curtin University of 22 Technology has engaged in misconduct in connection with the 23 conduct of the International English language testing 24 system; 25 (2) whether the policies, practices and operating 26 environment of the Curtin English language centre were 27 sufficient to detect misconduct in a timely manner; and 28 (3) whether the International English language testing 29 system has been compromised at testing centres operated by 30 any other public authorities. Do you understand the 31 general scope and purpose?---Yeah. 32 33 Before your examination commences, I require you to take an 34 oath or an affirmation to tell the truth. Which one would 35 you prefer?---I take oath. 36 37 Take the oath?---Yeah. 38 39 Can I ask you to stand please and take the oath. 40 41 PANDYA, VISHAL sworn: 42 43 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Mr Pandya, when you 44 were served with a summons to come here to give evidence 45 you were also given a notice to witness. Is that correct? 46 ---Yeah. 47 48 And have you read that notice?---Yeah. 49 50 It sets out your rights and obligations, does it?---Yeah. 51 52 Do you understand those rights and obligations?---Yeah, I 53 do. 54 55 56 22/3/11 PANDYA, V. XN 183 57 12.20 58

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And you have signed the notice?---Yeah, I have. 1 2 Thank you. Thank you, Ms Harries? 3 4 HARRIES, MS: Thank you, sir. 5 6 Your full name is Vishal (suppressed) - - -? 7 ---(suppressed) Pandya. 8 9 Pandya, thank you. Where were you born, Mr Pandya?---I 10 born in Rajkorch, which is a city of Kutjerad state in 11 India. 12 13 I understand that you have some qualifications, what are 14 they?---I done bachelor of commerce in India. 15 16 Yes?---And I done my master of business administration over 17 here at Edith Cowan University. 18 19 At Edith Cowan University in Australia?---Edith Cowan, 20 yeah. 21 22 When did you arrive in Australia?---July 2006. 23 24 When you came to Australia, what type of visa did you come 25 to Australia?---A student visa. 26 27 A student visa?---Yeah. 28 29 When did that student visa expire?---I have extended it 30 once actually, so - but I think my last visa was expiring 31 on 15 August 2009. 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 22/3/11 PANDYA, V. XN 184 58

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I see?---Yeah. 1 2 So what visa are you currently in Australia on?---I'm on a 3 permanent residency visa at the moment. 4 5 Okay. So you believe your student visa expired in 09? 6 ---Yeah. 7 8 And following that student visa you applied for permanent 9 residency?---Yep. 10 11 Is that right?---Yep. 12 13 And that permanent residency was in fact granted?---Yeah. 14 15 When did you receive permanent residency?---November 2009. 16 17 When you made your application for permanent residency did 18 you do that application yourself - - -?---Yeah, I did. 19 20 - - - or did you use a migration agent?---I had a migration 21 agent but I had to fill out form and everything by myself. 22 23 I see. Are you currently employed?---Yes. I work at the 24 petrol station. 25 26 In relation to your qualifications in business and 27 commerce, have you attempted to obtain any employment in 28 those areas?---I have tried, yeah, and I was - - - 29 30 And that has been unsuccessful?---Many times, but I was 31 working with Success Tax Professional in between for a 32 while. 33 34 I'm sorry?---I was working with a tax firm for a while in 35 between, actually the month of last July or something. 36 37 I see?---So yeah, I worked with a tax agent for a while but 38 otherwise I didn't get full-time job yet. 39 40 Okay. So that was just a short period?---Yeah; yeah. 41 42 And otherwise you're working in a petrol station at the 43 moment?---Yeah, petrol stations; yeah. 44 45 I won't ask you where you're currently living but who do 46 you live with at the moment?---I'm living with a couple of 47 other guys actually; one of my friends, Pritesh Shah, and 48 the other one is Kunal Patel. 49 50 Yes; and you could just spell those names please? 51 ---Pritesh is P-r-i-t-e-s-h. 52 53 54 55 22/3/11 PANDYA, V. XN 185 56 12.25 57

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Yes?---His surname S-h-a-h. And other name - other one is 1 Kunal, K-u-n-a-l, and surname is Patel. 2 3 In relation to Mr Patel and Mr Shah, where do you know them 4 from?---Mr Shah I know through one of my other friend 5 actually. We used to share an accommodation in 6 (indistinct) when we came to Australia, and this Pritesh, 7 he used to be friend with him. So we started living 8 together, me and Pritesh, since July 2008 I believe. 9 10 I see?---And so I know Pritesh from July 2008 I can say. 11 12 Okay. How would you describe your relationship with 13 Pritesh?---Well, he's very good friend of mine. 14 15 As part of your student visa application, it's the case 16 that you had to sit an English language test. Is that 17 right?---Yeah; yep. 18 19 And you sat that test in India before you came to 20 Australia?---Yeah, I did. Yep. 21 22 What results did you receive or what band, overall band, 23 did you receive in that test at that time?---Overall was 24 6.5 and I had 4.5 in the reading. Otherwise seven, seven, 25 seven in the other three modules. So there was writing, 26 speaking and listening. I had seven bands in those three 27 and I had 4.5 in reading. 28 29 Okay. Since you have been in Australia, have you sat any 30 IELTS tests?---Yeah, I have. 31 32 You understand what I mean when I say IELTS - - -?---Yeah; 33 yeah, yeah. 34 35 - - - to be the English language test?---Yep; yep, yep. 36 37 How many occasions have you sat tests in Australia?---Not 38 exactly - in Australia? Probably three or four times. 39 40 Okay?---Because - yeah, sorry. 41 42 Sorry, you were saying?---Yeah, and when I was in India in 43 November 2010 I believe - no, not 10. November 2009 or 44 something - no, before that. I mean, I tried to 45 (indistinct) IELTS once in India as well in between 46 actually, so in total I can say I have sat for IELTS 47 six times so far since beginning, since my very first time. 48 49 When you sat the tests in Australia, the three or four that 50 you have sat here, first of all where did you do those 51 tests?---Well, couple of them was at Edith Cowan 52 University. Churchlands campus where I used to study. 53 54 Okay, so two of them at ECU in Joondalup?---Yeah. 55 56 22/3/11 PANDYA, V. XN 186 57

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Were those the first two that you did in Australia? 1 ---Yeah. 2 3 What overall band did you receive for those tests?---I'm 4 not quite sure about it but I think it was six. Around six 5 overall early time - - - 6 7 What was the purpose that you were doing those IELTS 8 tests?---Because I - I had to lodge my permanent residency 9 file. 10 11 What did you - - - 12 13 THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Mr Pandya - excuse me, 14 Ms Harries - can you just sit back a little bit from the 15 microphone?---Yes. Just too loud? 16 17 Yes, that's fine. Thank you. 18 19 HARRIES, MS: Okay, so I think you said the reason you sat 20 those two tests was so that you could submit the result in 21 support of your application for permanent residency?---22 Yeah; yep. 23 24 What did you understand you needed to obtain for the IELTS 25 test in terms of your band score in order to be able to use 26 that result for your permanent residency application? 27 ---If I wanted to go to state sponsorship I need to have at 28 least seven. 29 30 You might need to come closer now, sorry?---Well, if I need 31 to go through state sponsorship I needed at least six band 32 individually. 33 34 Yes?---Six band each and if I wanted to process it without 35 state sponsorship or anything, I needed seven bands each. 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 22/3/11 PANDYA, V. XN 187 58

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Okay, and I understand then from what you've said that you 1 achieved the six bands?---(indistinct) 2 3 But you weren't able to achieve the seven bands?---What I - 4 what I had was oral six bands but I didn't have individual 5 six bands. 6 7 I see?---I had 5.5 in my last two - last actually, one of 8 those, and reading module I had 5.5, otherwise I had more 9 than six bands. 10 11 Okay, so in essence you were struggling to achieve even the 12 six bands - - - ?---Yeah. 13 14 - - - across all the four modules?---Individually, yeah, 15 yeah. 16 17 Then you said you did another one or two tests on top of 18 that in Western Australia?---Yeah. 19 20 Where did you do those tests?---They were in Curtin, at 21 Curtin. 22 23 At Curtin University?---Yeah. 24 25 So there was more than one?---Yeah, two tests. 26 27 Two others?---Yeah. 28 29 In relation to those tests did you achieve sixes across all 30 four modules?---Well the last time I had, before that I 31 did, I had 5.5 in reading. 32 33 Okay?---Otherwise I have 6.5 or six in - sorry, I had 5.5 34 in writing, I had six in reading, 7.5 in listening, I think 35 same in speaking or something. 36 37 Okay, so this is in relation to the third one. You still 38 weren't achieving - - - ?---Yeah. 39 40 - - - what you needed?---Yeah, yeah. 41 42 But your final test you achieved the points - sorry, the 43 overall band score in each module that you required? 44 ---Yeah. 45 46 And the overall band score that you required or that you 47 achieved for that fourth test was?---Seven, seven, seven, 48 seven, so seven each. 49 50 So you got seven in all of the modules?---Yeah, yeah. 51 52 Is it the case that you then submitted that IELTS results 53 in support of your application for permanent residency? 54 ---Yeah, I have. 55 56 22/3/11 PANDYA, V. XN 188 57 12.30 58

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That last test that you've spoken about that you did at 1 Curtin where you achieved the sevens across all four 2 modules, was that test - do you recall the date of that 3 test?---Not exactly, but it was somewhere in the March. 4 5 If I said to you that test was in June 2009 would that 6 sound right to you?---It could be because I don't remember 7 the last date. I mean, it might be around that time 8 probably, but I don't exactly remember. 9 10 But in any event, if there was paperwork to show that you 11 took at test - - - ?---Yeah, yeah, yeah. 12 13 - - - in June of 2009 - - - ?---And I've got documents with 14 me so I can check it with you over that if you want it. 15 16 That's okay. I'll put some documents up in a moment, 17 Mr Pandya, but if that was the date would that on your 18 evidence be the last test that you sat?---Yeah, yeah, those 19 are the last one. That's what I submitted. 20 21 Okay. If I can have Commission bar code 1285, please, and 22 if we could go to the second page of that first, if we 23 could just expand that, please - Mr Pandya, do you accept 24 that that's your name written at the top of the sheet? 25 ---Yeah, I do. 26 27 You see that that is a copy of the listening answer sheet, 28 and do you accept that that's an IELTS listening answer 29 sheet?---Yeah, it looks - yeah. 30 31 If we just scroll down, you see the score written at the 32 bottom. The band score for that is 6.5?---Okay. 33 34 Okay?---Yeah. 35 36 If we could just go back to the first page of that 37 document, please - this is the other side of that answer 38 sheet?---Yeah. 39 40 If we could just scroll down, you see that there's a band 41 score recorded there of seven?---Okay, yeah. 42 43 I'm sorry, if we could just scroll up again just to confirm 44 that this was in relation to the reading component, do you 45 see that?---Yep. 46 47 IELTS reading answer sheet?---Yeah. 48 49 If we could just go back to the second page, please, just 50 at the top of that page, do you see the test date is filled 51 in with pencil in the middle of the screen, 27 June 2009?--52 -Yeah, yeah. 53 54 55 22/3/11 PANDYA, V. XN 189 56

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So you accept that that's when you did that test?---Yeah. 1 2 So we've seen the listening answer sheet was 6.5?---Yeah. 3 4 And the reading was seven?---Yeah. 5 6 Okay. If I could have Commission bar code 1116, please, 7 and if we could expand that - if you just have a look at 8 the top, this is the speaking examiner's record for the 9 IELTS test and you can see the test date on the right-hand 10 side at the top is 27 June 2009?---Yeah. 11 12 This isn't a document you would have seen before, 13 Mr Pandya, because this is the document that the examiners 14 fill in the scores on. Do you understand that?---Yeah. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 22/3/11 PANDYA, V. XN 190 57

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If we can scroll down?---Mm'hm. 1 2 Right at the bottom of the page now, if we just stop. You 3 will see that a candidate's details have been crossed out. 4 Would you agree that yours have been written in pencil? 5 ---Yeah. 6 7 Pandya, Vishal?---Yeah. 8 9 And you accept that you sat a test on that day?---Yeah. 10 11 And that's certainly consistent with the other document 12 that we have just seen?---Yep. 13 14 If you have a look at the right-hand side of that screen in 15 your column there's band scores of seven, seven, seven and 16 seven?---Yes. 17 18 You may not understand that there were a number of scores 19 given for speaking for various parts of that test, and then 20 those scores are averaged to give you an overall score for 21 speaking. Do you understand that?---No, could you just 22 repeat it again please. 23 24 Sure. Those four sevens are added together and divided by 25 four to give you an overall score for your speaking 26 component which you would accept would be seven in relation 27 to this?---Yes. 28 29 Thank you. If I could have Commission bar code 1117. 30 31 Once again, you see that your name appears, Vishal Pandya?-32 --Yeah. 33 34 And your candidate number and the date of the test, 27 June 35 2009?---Yeah. 36 37 Do you agree that this is the writing component of the test 38 that you completed on that day?---Yeah. 39 40 And if we can just scroll down, there's two parts to the 41 writing component, as you may recall?---Yep. 42 43 Task 1, and if we just go to the next page and scroll down, 44 at the bottom of that page there are some scores written in 45 by the examiner?---Mm'hm. 46 47 Once again, those aren't scores that you would have seen 48 before, because when you filled in this form you just 49 entered your handwriting and then handed it in to be 50 marked?---Yes. 51 52 So you haven't seen this form before with those numbers on 53 it?---No. 54 55 56 22/3/11 PANDYA, V. XN 191 57 12.35 58

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Okay, and you accept that the numbers are six, six, six and 1 six for that first module?---Yeah. 2 3 If I tell you that those scores get added together with the 4 second module of the writing test to give you an overall 5 score in writing, because you accept on the TRF you just 6 get one score for writing?---Yeah. 7 8 Is that right?---Yeah. 9 10 Okay, if we just go to the next module, the next page. 11 That's your handwriting?---It is. 12 13 If we just scroll down, this is the second task of the 14 writing test, and to the next page please, and scroll down. 15 Once again, there are some handwritten scores from the 16 examiner of five, six, six and six?---Yes. 17 18 So those scores are, Mr Pandya, there's eight lots of 19 them?---Yeah. 20 21 The first page we saw was six, six, six and six, and the 22 second page was five, six, six and six. Those all get 23 added together, divided by eight, and you get a single 24 score for your writing. Do you understand that?---Yep. 25 26 Okay, if we did that, your single score for writing, do you 27 agree, would be six, based on what's written on that 28 paper?---Yep. 29 30 Thank you. If I could have Commission bar code 0295 31 please, and if we could go to page 14. 32 33 Mr Pandya, this is a copy of the TRF that you submitted to 34 the Department of Immigration and Citizenship?---Yeah. 35 36 Do you agree that that's a photo of you and those are your 37 details?---Yeah, I do. 38 39 And do you see that the date that the test relates to is in 40 the middle of the page at the top, being 27 June 2009? 41 ---Yeah. 42 43 If we can just scroll down - in the middle of the page your 44 test results are seven, seven, seven, seven and with an 45 overall score of seven?---Yeah. 46 47 Do you accept, based on the paperwork that we have already 48 looked at relating to the actual test that you sat on 49 27 June that the results from that paperwork don't all 50 match this test result form?---Yeah. 51 52 And that is, for listening your results should have been 53 6.5 and for writing your result should have been six, but 54 for the other two seven was correct?---Okay. 55 56 22/3/11 PANDYA, V. XN 192 57

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Okay, thank you, I'm complete with that document for now. 1 Will you explain to the Commission why that is the case 2 that there are different figures on your test report form?-3 --Because I paid for it. 4 5 Who did you pay to get those results?---I give it to my 6 friend Pritesh. 7 8 Okay, if we can just go back, how did it come about that 9 you came to pay to receive those scores?---Well the day I 10 got my earlier result on the test before this test 11 actually, I was at the home and everything, Pritesh came 12 from petrol station, the place he used to work, and he told 13 me he talked to his mate, his workmate or whoever, and his 14 workmate told him that he knows a guy at Curtin University 15 who can do all those things and he has been doing it so he 16 said, "If you pay, you're ready to pay a little bit of 17 money, he might then ensure the scores you require for the 18 - for the visa application and everything." 19 20 Okay?---So that's how I come to know about it. 21 22 When did this conversation take place?---The day I got my 23 test - I mean IELTS, sit for the earlier test. I don't 24 know when it was exactly. 25 26 The document we just had showed a date o