Classic Palm Info

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Topic: Classic palm problems

Message: Posted by: greatscott (Oct 11, 2012 04:09PM)

I have never been able to master the classic palm. Can someone tell me the best way to perfect this? What

are some tips, or resources that could help me?

Thanks,

David

Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Oct 11, 2012 04:32PM)

There is a DVD on the classic palm by Reed McClintock. There is also a nice discussion on classic palm

and how to avoid common problems by David Roth on volume 1 of the New York Coin Magic Seminar DVDseries.

Message: Posted by: BrianMillerMagic (Oct 11, 2012 06:42PM)

I learned to classic palm from Jay Sankey's Revolutionary Coin Magic. That DVD is a kick-in-the-face.

Actually, it was my very first experience with coin magic. Looking back, that was a terrible idea. But it threw

me in the deep end and I was forced to play catch up.

Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Oct 11, 2012 09:06PM)

Hi David,

I don't charge a dime for this and I hear it has helped people all over the world with their CP. Check your PM.;)

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-Mb

Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Oct 11, 2012 11:41PM)

Go look at http://www.coinvanish.com and enter the Foundations section. Great teaching on the Classic

Palm there by Dan Watkins.

Jim

Message: Posted by: itlust (Oct 12, 2012 01:22AM)

Whats your problem with your CP ?

MB advice on CP training is very useful :)

and please don't give up because someone said there is another solution to do the tricks without CP unlessyou have a physical disability

I like to practice something to the extreme,i gluedd several coin and CP it anytime,anywhere even on mysleep

Message: Posted by: mindmagic (Oct 12, 2012 04:41AM)

There's a detailed discussion in Ian Kendall's Basic Training (it's a book, but don't let that put you off).

Have you tried a different size coin? I can palm any size, but I find a larger one (I'm currently using old Englishpennies)is much easier; I can even palm a stack and release them one at a time, which I can't do with

smaller ones.

Finally, moisturiser may help. Following a recommendation from another Caf � member I've found that a tinydrop of neat glycerine rubbed well in works wonders.

Barry

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Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Oct 12, 2012 10:52AM)

I can pretty much palm any size coin up to a dollar size coin and do it pretty well. But I am reminded of what

others might be going through everytime I try it in the other the hand. :D That's when everything slows down a

bit as to the moves. I can CP in my left hand as well but I don't have to do it often and so the hand doesn't geta lot of practice with it. But it reminds me of where I come from in trying to get the CP down in my right hand,

how constant practice helped to make it happen and to eventually get it as close to perfection as can be for me.

I was playing with a quarter today on my way in to work, don't usually do that much but it's Friday. :D I was

surprised at how easily I could CP it, just the same as I do a half dollar coin. I think it's because I have theright technique to it and so whatever I put in my hand of such size is well CP'd. Personally, all it takes is first

knowing how to do it right and then doing it that way over and over until your hands better understand what

you want them to do. Once they know from all the practice of it, you can command it to happen whenever

necessary, almost as a reflex action seemingly without even thinking of it. I know from the shortside of things,such a perspective is hard to behold, but it comes if you give it the effort necessary. I'm just sayin'. :)

Message: Posted by: v insmagic (Oct 12, 2012 12:27PM)

No matter how much you practice the CP some people like my self, the palm looks like iam squeezing

oranges. so I never use it. that saidMarion has great advice .. on the cp

vinnyps my good friend Micley Silver never classic palms a coin, and he is regarded as one of the top coinworkers of our time

Message: Posted by: trancew ork (Oct 14, 2012 02:12AM)

This was very helpful! Thanks!



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Message: Posted by: Law rence O (Oct 14, 2012 03:28AM)

The feeling towards the Classic Palm (contrived hand) has been more commonly expressed about the Italian

Palm (thumb Palm)I would encourage you to keep learning the classic palm possibly with Reed McClintock excellent DVD. Then

spend some time, possibly all along your transportation with a coin classic palmed as you do every day

gestures (even in a bad classic palm) just to learn feeling at ease with it. Then get back to the Reed

McClintock DVD and adjust your grip to make it look more casual (instead of keeping bad habits.)

In the meantime keep doing your magic with the Finger Palm like Vinny, Mickey Silver, John Carney... AsVinny states you could live without it. For example Vinny and Marion aree using a palm with the thumb

holding the coin in its phalanges (not pinched as in the Italian Palm but more like in transit during the De

Manche Change.) I can never feel at ease using it for when I'm holding a coin like this, even with years of training, my first finger cannot be extended and it's a give away... Even though I don't feel at ease with it, I'm

still working at that first finger problem and use it in performance just to get trained to feel comfortable with its

use.

Another point is that some magicians like to brag about their classic palm because they know it's a difficult

one to do well. However it's not always the best palm. If you look at the Change Over Palm that Michael Ammar (who has a perfect classic palm) or David Stone do from that position, you realize that he has to

bring the palming hand perfeectly in opposite line with the palm up left hand (otherwise the coin cannot be

secretly dropped on the left fingers as the right ones pick up the coin visibble in the left palm. This is abizarre gesture. It is deceptive but somewhat un-natural. This probably why, the Professor had developped a

Change Over Palm from Finger Palm because then the hands come across rather than lined up in oppositedirections

The thing for me is that we should have several tools constantly shifting (during every routine) palming

techniques to convey or infer that the concealing hand isn't guilty. To that effect you should train on shifting acoin from Thumb Palm to Finger Palm to Classic Palm to J. W. Grip to Tenkai Pinch... and back. This being

said, the classic palm is very convenient to palm several coins and release them one by one perfectly



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silently. This noise problem is more difficult from the finger palm: why do you think that John Ramsay and

many magicians now a days use soft coins... Garrett Thomas is the only magician that has accepted

confronting this issue without the soft coins. Lots of work again...

Take the time to gain several tools and revisit your routine checking how shifting from one palm to another would improve the feeling of casualness from the audience: try several combinations and then choose the

combination you think that your audience will be put more off guard with. Then remember that magic is more

about misdirection and feints and forget about the combination you are using to focus on misdiection andfeint.

Magic is not about techniques, it's an art and like every arts it's about communicating your feelings. Now if you can use several colors in conjunction on your canvass, you'll be able to express better and will keep on

becoming a better painter... or, if you prefer, you can't express your feelings in English (or any language) with

just one word even if you learned pronouncing it perfectly

Message:Posted by: MarkSpitzer (Oct 14, 2012 04:22PM)

Ditto on the Reed McClintock DVD, I found it very helpful even though I thought I had a decent CP (I say

"decent" because I showed i t to David Roth once at Fantasma in NYC and he didn't retch, or scowl too

much.)I've had much better luck with the CP than with the great palm described above by Lawrence O as used by

Vinny and MB. My hand just doesn't allow me to pick up anything once I have a coin in "their" correct

position, and I've had literally hours of [most gracious!]video chat training with Vinny. Little differences inhand anatomy can make some difference. Just don't give up practicing!

I don't think I've seen mentioned advice given to me years ago: Work with the largest coins you can handle,

first, and then work down to smaller coins. For me, the larger the coin the more natural my hand can appear,and I developed a better feel for CP in high, middle and low CP.

Also, I believe Shoot Ogawa recommends that if you are going to learn the Muscle Pass that you do it from

your usual CP position so you don't have to re-position the coin.

Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Oct 14, 2012 10:47PM)



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And to add to Etienne's excellent post above, don�t forget the position that most facilitates moving fromone palm to another: Fingertip Rest. It allows you to move from one grip or palm to another easily, silently,and deceptively.

Jim

Message:Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Oct 15, 2012 12:31AM)

I had some troubles - took some advise from people like MB, and I got it down - but first I had to realise I

don't need to hold it for the whole "hour long show" in fact, I only have to keep it in classic palm for a few to

several seconds. Most of my problems that I let bother me was if I couldn't hold it for a whole hour while I sitand watch tv. (I can now) because I realised I didn't half to. Its like missdirection for my perfectionist CDO

(yes I know its ocd but mine is in the proper order)

Message: Posted by: pabloinus (Nov 3, 2012 01:39PM)

I jumped into Maryon offer on his tutorial for classic palm, he sent me a link to a video where he explains a

very simple process that jump start the ability to palm.He gave it to me a month or so ago, but because of work and other things I was not able to use it until 2 days

ago.

Today I can tell that his instruction really helped me a lot, again nothing revolutionary, but simple and clever enough to easily use it and really improve your classic plam (at least improved mine)

Maryon, thank you very much for your generosity ...

Pablo

Message: Posted by: crummens (Nov 4, 2012 10:03PM)

Check out some of David Roths coin DVDs



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Message: Posted by: Ion Dubinin (Nov 4, 2012 10:42PM)

One of David Roth's tips on the Classic Palm that helped me a lot is:

Most of the times when someone classic palms a coin they stick their thumb out, like a hitchickers thumb.

What he says is when you palm the coin keep the tip of the thumb tightly pressed against the tip of your index

finger. That will prevent your thumb from shooting out.

Hope it helpes

Ion.

Message: Posted by : MagicofDesperado (Nov 4, 2012 11:37PM)

I'd love to hear what Marion has to say about the classic palm.

Dave

Message: Posted by: havagrim (Nov 6, 2012 12:56PM)

A lot of great tips here for I too have some problems with the CP. Thank for all the tips. Helped me aswell

alot!

Time to practice.. Oh.. so many things to do, and so little time..

Ronnie

Message: Posted by: w ebtech (Nov 7, 2012 08:25PM)

[quote]



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On 2012-10-11 21:06, Mb217 wrote:

Hi David,

I don't charge a dime for this and I hear it has helped people all over the world with their CP. Check your PM.;)

-Mb[/quote]

Can you pm me as well? I could use some help with my CP.

Message: Posted by: Felman (Nov 8, 2012 10:01AM)

Tutorial on coinvanish.com is the best one I have ever seen. I hope I will finally get my CP working.

Message: Posted by: Chewbacca (Nov 15, 2012 12:19PM)

I have gotten back into magic after a number of years away. I decided that I want to do coin magic as it iseasy to have coins around. However I am starting at the beginning and having trouble with my CP. I have

looked at coinvanish foundations and it has helped some. I am a little frustrated. Any tips would be

appreciated.

Message: Posted by: magicbymccauley (Nov 15, 2012 01:26PM)

I don't use classic palm and I have specialized in coin magic for many years. You don't need classic palm toreally do anything. Mine is terrible, and I only use it when my hand is almost closed. Fingerpalm, Natural Rest

Thumbpalm and thumbclip, as well as various other clips can do the trick.

Some people have an incredible classic palm from the get go. Some people can't ever do i t very well (that's

me.)




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I do agree with you in the regard that you need to be adaptable and make things work for you as best as

possible. I don't want to give up on trying to get a good CP learned. I just seem to have problems with flippingthe half dollar I am using instead of palming it.

If that makes any sense to anyone.

Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Nov 15, 2012 02:26PM)

Hi Chew, welcome to the Caf �. :)

I PMd you, but in general you can do whatever you put your mind to, or not behind that same mind not to or

that you can't. I'm just sayin'. :)

Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Nov 15, 2012 02:43PM)

[quote]On 2012-11-15 13:41, Chewbacca wrote:

I do agree with you in the regard that you need to be adaptable and make things work for you as best aspossible. I don't want to give up on trying to get a good CP learned. I just seem to have problems with flipping

the half dollar I am using instead of palming it.

If that makes any sense to anyone.

[/quote]

If it is "flipping", then it is very likely that your hands are very dry. True? Try a product for dry skin. Best I have

come across are:

[list][*] Chamberlain's Golden Touch (Some drug stores carry this)[*] Twin Labs NaPCA (Available on Amazon.com)

[*] Take a look at the drug store and find some Rose water and Glycerin. There's a number of different

brands - get the least expensive to try.



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[/list]

Give it a try if you think your hands may be too dry. But from what you describe I'd bet that's your problem.

Jim


Mb...Thank you. I believe that will help me get things moving in the right direction.

J-Mac... Right you are. I will have to stop by the store on the way home.

Message: Posted by: magicbymccauley (Nov 16, 2012 12:54AM)

You can also use a "bridge" technique to substitute. Then you can come back to the original technique when

you get better at it.

I couldn't do a retention pass for a long time. It didn't look good I couldn't get the timing right. So instead,

when a routine called for a retention pass, I did a Bobo vanish, which almost gives you retention of vision but

is far easier than the retention pass.

Then using that, I got the timing down, and could do the retention pass fine. So then I went back to the

routines and replaced some of them. I still really like the Bobo vanish too though and I use it a lot.

So i f you can't classic palm, use finger palm, thumb palm, thumb clip, even touch palm. Find one that is easy

for you to naturally conceal coins and use it for the time being. Then go back later if a classic palm worksbetter.

Message: Posted by: Law rence O (Nov 17, 2012 06:26AM)

[quote]



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On 2012-11-15 13:26, magicbymccauley wrote:

I don't use classic palm and I have specialized in coin magic for many years. You don't need classic palm to

really do anything. Mine is terrible, and I only use it when my hand is almost closed. Fingerpalm, Natural Rest

Thumbpalm and thumbclip, as well as various other clips can do the trick.

Some people have an incredible classic palm from the get go. Some people can't ever do i t very well (that's

me.)

[/quote]

It seems wise to me to use whatever technique that keeps your gesture naturalIt's not so wise however not to try and keep on progressing by learning additional tools until they feel the

same way

I have no issue with the classic palm but for now about 10 years I'm struggling with Marion and Vinny's use of

the Crimp... My first finger, despite daily work refuses to extend naturally with a coin in Crimp (limiting the

possibilities for me to use this convenient tool more than "along the way")... but I'm still trying

So for the ones who are still working at their classic palm: it's not the universal tool but keep on doing

because it's a useful one nevertheless and switching from thumb palm to finger palm to classic palm is a wayto take suspicion off the hand

Curtis Kam has an exceptionally good publication here in the Caf � on the finger palm and the thumb palm

(which actual name by the way is the Italian Palm due to Bosco making it popular ...and I'm not Italian so notpreaching by nationalism)

Message: Posted by: w arren (Nov 19, 2012 02:01PM)

After reading this thread I couldn't resist taking a minute to ask Mb for some tips on the classic palm.Being atrue gentleman he was only to happy to share what has helped him and many others,so if your struggling with

your classic palm take a minute to seek out his advise it could be just the tip your looking for :)



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Message: Posted by: LCBellah (Nov 27, 2012 02:50PM)

I agree with you Warren. Mb has been really helpful to me also. He has not only helped me with my classic

palm but has really inspired me to work harder on my coin magic. Mb shared some helpful advice and I really

appreciate his guidance.Lynn

Message: Posted by: tarw e (Nov 29, 2012 05:39AM)

New to the site, but have been a huge fan of sleight of hand for many years (coins in particular, fascinating

things people can do with them). The CP has always given me problems - and often the reason I've given opsleights through the years.

One of my favorite tricks is by David Roth, a standing c/s tranposition. With a trick like that, the CP seemsmuch less of a problem - because the nature of the trick, the position of the hands, the fact that there is

always a coin being displayed. My hand looks more natural because the routine is set-up the way it is, I think.

But there are so many great tricks and effects I love to practice that use a CP with the hand in the more

common "knuckle-up/to-the-front" position, that sometimes I wonder if I'll ever get it to work or make it look

believable. I can use my fingers, pick things up, etc. (when needed, of course) but the thumb...

At times I've spent many, many months of practice and still cannot get the thumb more towards the side of

the hand, in a slightly "flatter hand" position. I know it need not be truely flat, but my thumb remains too much

behind my forefinger/too much out of sight when seen from the back of the hand. I have fairly big hands (largepalms) and practice with 50 cents and dollars, but the larger coins give the same result. Keep hopig it will

improve - but would also really welcome any advice. The dvd on the CP - does it deal with this issue? Or

perhaps my hand just is not quite right for a truly natural CP, but will keep at it - so many things I love topractice with it.

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Classic Palm Info