(352) 392 AAHP 359 ...ufdcimages.uflib.ufl.edu/AA/00/06/65/59/00001/AAHP 359 Town Me… · and every one of you after the town hall meeting. And I just want to point out to you that

For information on terms of use of this interview, please see the SPOHP Creative Commons license at http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AfricanAmericanOralHistory.

Joel Buchanan Archive of African American History: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/ohfb

AAHP 359 Gainesville Town Hall Black History African American History Project (AAHP)

Nkwanda Jah, Stacy Jones, Sherry DuPree, Joyce West, Delores Rentz, Patricia Hilliard-Nunn, Deidre Houchen, Kali Blount, Dan Harmeling, Cassandra Morrison on

October 26, 2014 2 hours, 19 minutes | 63 pages

Abstract: Nkwanda Jah introduced the Town Hall organized by the Black History Task Force and panelists. The Alachua County Library District offered books for check out and other books were available for sale. The panelists were educators, parents, and business owners who discussed the history of African American Studies broadly and specifically in Alachua County. Deidre Houchen shared the story of the creation of Lincoln High School before and during Jim Crow. Patricia Hilliard-Nunn explained that free Africans like Juan Garrido were explorers of the New World and the influence of Africans on mathematics.

The audience asked several questions on teaching methodologies, the verification of sources, cultural competency, and how to challenge state and federal leaders. Dr.

Gwendolyn Zohorah Simmons was the Alachua County representative to Florida’s Black History Task Force and invited the audience to other relevant events.

Keywords: Black History; Alachua County School Board; Education; Florida Statute of Law 1003.42; Social Studies; Black Churches; Rosewood; Dan Harmeling; Lincoln High

School; Department of Education; Carter G. Woodson; Black Art Movement; Gary Moore.

Samuel Proctor Oral History Program College of Liberal Arts and Sciences Program Director: Dr. Paul Ortiz

241 Pugh Hall PO Box 115215 Gainesville, FL 32611 (352) 392-7168https://oral.history.ufl.edu

AAHP 359 Presenters: Nkwanda Jah, Stacy Jones, Sherry DuPree, Joyce West, Delores Rentz, Patricia Hilliard-Nunn, Deidre Houchen, Kali Blount, Dan Harmeling, Cassandra Morrison Event: Gainesville Black History Task Force Town Hall Meeting Date: October 26, 2014 NJ: Good afternoon. [Greets audience in different languages] I’m Nkwanda Jah. I just

made an attempt to greet you in Swahili with “Djambo”; “Daante” is Japanese;

“Bonjour”—some of y’all got that [inaudible 0:46]. It’s French. “Nihao”; Chinese.

“Konichiwa”; Japanese. “Sabe?”; Latino. It’s one of the reasons why we’re here

today. Good afternoon my name is Nkwanda Jah, and I want to welcome each of

you on behalf of the members of the Black History Task Force to our town hall

meeting to discuss infusing Black history into our schools’ curriculum. Many of us

believe that you cannot teach any of the basic subjects—science, math, writing—

without teaching the great contributions of Blacks. Math and science are what

Blacks used to build pyramids. Algebra, being used by Blacks thousands of years

before Whites. Chemistry, architecture, astronomy, religions, art, and the list

goes on and on—and that does not at all even include the most recent scientists,

like George Washington Carver and his creations, whether we’re talking about

the soy bean he used to create fuel for Mr. Ford’s car, or the peanut that

revolutionized the time. Or Charles Drew, who we should not even be able to

look at a Bloodmobile and not think of him. We have panelists who will share with

you their experiences and attempts to infuse Black history, and then we will hear

from you. We want to know exactly what the barriers are to this infusion, and we

hope we can break down those barriers. We need to move forward, including not

just White history and Black history, but all of our histories, whether it’s

European, African and Black, Native American, Latino, Asian, women, or gays.

AAHP 359; Gainesville Black History Task Force Town Hall; Page 2

Again, welcome each of you, and a sincere thank you for joining us on such a

beautiful Sunday afternoon. This task force looks forward to working with each

and every one of you after the town hall meeting. And I just want to point out to

you that Cultural Arts Coalition has some books in the back that we’re selling for

a dollar each, that we will use contributions for the coalition. Again, thank you

very much for being here. [Applause]

SJ: Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Stacy Jones, I’m a member of the Black

History Task Force and I’ve got to say that it’s been my pleasure to work with this

amazing group of people as we try to figure out ways to appropriately infuse

Black history into the Alachua County school curriculum, from kindergarten all the

way through twelfth grade. Fantastic group of people to work with. I look forward

to seeing some of you all join us after this town hall meeting. I want to introduce

one new member in particular to you today: Ms. Sherry DuPree is a longtime

resident of Gainesville. She was born and grew up in Raleigh, North Carolina,

and attended North Carolina Central in Durham and then the University of

Michigan in Ann Arbor. She has been a librarian at both the University of Florida

and Santa Fe for many, many years. This is a woman who has dedicated much

of her time, much of her life, much of her career and her spare time, to the study

and the teaching, and the documenting and archiving of African and African

American history. She currently serves as the Executive Director of the UNESCO

Transatlantic Slave Trade group. She is married, she has three sons, and it’s my

pleasure to introduce to you Ms. Sherry Dupree. [Applause]


D: Thank you so very, very much for this beautiful introduction. It’s time for me to go

now, since you said all that! We would welcome each and every one of you here

this afternoon. We are here for a wonderful occasion. We’re here to talk about

some of the needs of our community, which is most important. Education is the

key, not only for our children, but for the growth of our communities. Education

determines where we go, what we do, and how well we do it. It determines our

businesses and how well they function, as well. So we’re here today to care for

them and to move forward. Library resources, Ms. Joyce West, would you please

come forward? Ms. Joyce West? All right. [Inaudible 6:41]

W: Good afternoon. Welcome to the Alachua County Library District. On behalf of

our [inaudible 06:57] staff we want to thank you for thinking of us when looking

for a place to host this wonderful meeting. With the assistance of the task force,

we have put together a small sample of African American history book lists, and

some of the books are available in the back of the room, on the cart, for check

out. But it’s also a list there as well; if the item’s not there, you can put the item

on hold and we’ll notify you when it comes in. There’s also one item on there

that’s available, and it’s a downloadable e-book, and if you have tablets,

computers, audio devices and things like that, you can stop at the table and see

me, or you can stop at our table and see one of our staff members, and we’ll be

at your assistance [inaudible 07:43] for twenty-one days. I’ve also been asked to

tell you some small housekeeping notes: the bathroom is straight out of the

door—because that’s always important. And right across the hall, there’s a water


fountain there as well. So again, welcome, thank you for coming out, and I hope

you enjoy your morning. [Applause].

D: It’s always so [inaudible 08:08] always enjoy coming here. You’re so open to

everybody. So we want you to relax and enjoy what we have prepared. The

panel of members, we’re going to ask each of them to take a couple of minutes

to tell you about themselves so that they can move forward. [Inaudible 8:29].

H: Good afternoon. I’m Masoma Kali, most of you are familiar with just saying “Kali.”

I’ve been in Gainesville since [19]87; I am a nurse, part-time at Shands; I’m a

graduate of single parenting, and the proud grandparent of a bike shop. I’ve been

involved with a lot of community issues, starting in 19[89] with the charter review

of lots of boards and committees, but this is the most important.

D: All right. Thank you. And next we have, Delores Rentz. Please come forward.

R: Good afternoon. My name is Delores Rentz. I am a retired educator. I’ve taught

high school at Buchholz High School for many years, primarily in Social Studies.

D: Thank you. So many people in Gainesville know her and her husband and family.

Dan you’re right here. [Inaudible 9:44].

DHa: My name is Dan Harmeling. I’m a retired teacher at county public schools for I

guess I could say, many, many years, starting in 1967, in Washington D.C., and

currently, I’m retired. I’ve been at Santa Fe college as a math instructor for the

last ten years. [Inaudible 10:07]

D: Thank you so much, Dan. I’ve known you for a long time. I’m real excited for this.

You going to come up Deidre? All right.


DHo: Good afternoon, everyone. I’m Deidre Houchen. I am a parent, long-time resident

of Gainesville. I moved here in third grade and went to the Idylwild, and Fort

Clarke, and Buchholz, and was a student under Mrs. Rentz. I am a teacher, a

former teacher and a student now at the University of Florida, getting my PhD in

curriculum teaching and teacher education.

D: Thank you, Deidre. Cassandra, would you please come forward? Thank you.

M: Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Cassandra Morrison. I’m a parent from

Porters, and I’m also a business owner. I see what the students are coming

against, and also what’s going on in the classroom. So, my contribution is to

make sure that my children do well in the classroom.

D: Thank you. Patricia?

H-N: Thank you. I am Patricia Hilliard-Nunn. I’m glad to be here. My a lecturer in

African American studies at the University of Florida. I’ve have two daughters go

through the system here in Alachua County, and I’ve worked with a lot of

teachers and principals during that time. The last just graduated in June, and so I

decided to work with children. I believe that we should teach everyone’s history,

that all [inaudible 11:58] especially infuses historic African American studies.

D: Okay. All right, now you have met our panel, and we will be doing questions and

answers in just a few minutes, but I want to read the Florida Statute of Law. The

Florida Statute 1003.42 is entitled “Required Instruction,” and it was passed in

1994. The intent of the statute is to mandate basic curriculum requirements such

as the infusion of African American history and culture in and for the schools. But

in the twenty years since it was approved, it has only been implemented in a few


counties. We have sixty-seven counties in the state of Florida and we average

around ten that have been approved. So I want you to keep that in mind as we

go through this afternoon, making sure not only that we cover African American

history, but we have to include Hispanics, the Asians, and so many other cultures

that are now in the Gainesville area and in the state of Florida. We want to make

sure that we infuse—the key word is infuse—history that reflects all of the

cultures; not just one or two, but all, in different ways, to make sure our kids are

comfortable in their classrooms. All right, the next thing that we have will be

questions and answers from the community and the panel. So we’ll start with

Kali?

B: I hope to be brief, because I want to talk about past and we’re not going to linger

there. But we just need to know how some things that had gone on before. And I

also want to mention, one other person who is not on the panel today but would

have been if she had not had plans that didn’t happen that she would have been

out of town. And she sitting at the very back, Professor Gwendolyn Zohorah

Simmons. [Applause] She was very, very important in getting this whole thing to

rise. And she is a member of the statewide task force for African American

history education. The State Department of Education, and the Commissioner of

Education, support a task force at the state level with scholars from all over the

state, and she is our local member of that. That group has been looking—for over

a decade—has been looking at the implementation of the statute. Unfortunately,

they have no power. So they’ve amassed fantastic materials, great curriculum

materials, but they cannot make them get inserted into the curriculum. So I came


to this notion in 1990 after coming to Gainesville. The [19]89-[19]90 school year, I

was with a group called the African Studies Association of Alachua County. We

present a petition with over seven hundred signatures to the school board asking

for the implementing of Black history. In response to that petition, the school

board set up a multicultural curriculum task force and gave twenty-five thousand

dollars, and set [inaudible 15:36] who was then ESE, over that committee.

Bottom line, that committee finished spending its twenty-five thousand dollars. It

had affected exactly four classrooms for exactly one school year, and nothing

ever since. But I continue, with the help of other people, to meet with school

board about doing Black history, including a fifteen-year period attending every

single meeting, to the point that they got really sick of it, but they had to keep

hearing it. So come up four years and the Florida Congress of Black State

Legislators began writing this law. And to get broad support for it, they started

preparing—and there are copies of the law available, I think they’re being handed

out now—Paragraph H includes the things you see on the wall, moving around

the room. These are pieces of that law, of Paragraph H, about African and

African American history. If you look at just the first piece, it says, “History of

African Peoples before the political conflicts that lead to the development of

slavery.” Well, that means going back to the beginning of recorded history. And

human history starts in Africa. In fact, I heard on NPR this morning, an

archaeologist talking about human origins in Central East Africa. That brought all

the arguments on the table years ago, that’s commonly accepted by scientists.

Based on archaeological evidence, based on ancient written records, and based


on biological evidence. I don’t have time to go into that right now, but I hope

some of you will be curious enough to come and find out more about that

biological evidence. So we continued meeting with the school board; they did put

it on the agenda one time! Now it happened to be on an agenda where we were

also discussing zoning and busing, and there’s two parts to that agenda: the

action agenda and the discussion agenda. So we got on the discussion agenda,

and the meeting was hot with controversy. And the item came up about one in

the morning, after the forty or so supporters who came for that item had mostly

left. So that’s bringing the attention to it so far. Now, most of the people at that

rally at [inaudible 18:04] school board believe that something is being done.

Materials are there, some people do a little, but I can speak for myself and others

who’ve been in the community doing history constantly: our kids don’t know it.

And that’s the bottom line. I don’t care what the inputs are. If the kids come out

without it, the job’s not getting done. So, that’s what we need to achieve. And I

want to put it to you that there’s been one group of people brought to this

country, forcefully separated from they story-of-self. That is the same as

deliberately infecting someone with amnesia. If you could give someone a

disease on purpose, imagine you could impose a mental illness on purpose. So,

the group of captives brought into this country were separated from anyone

speaking their language, forced to give up their names, religions, foods, clothing,

music, everything, and to not transmit their story and their history. History is the

id and ego of the community. So that has been an intellectual aggression done

against people of African descent, and that damage is still with us and needs to


be undone. And when our kids know that story, I won’t have to walk down the

street and see pants hanging off, because they’re going to know who they are.

Thank you. [Applause]

D: Following Kali is Delores Rentz. And I think you have the rule in front you so you

can look over it. I think copies have been passed out. Thank you

R: Good afternoon, again. My degree from college is in social studies education.

And I may be dating myself, but at the time that I went to college, I did not

receive a history degree, or geography degree, or psychology degree. I received

a degree in Social Studies Education. And what that meant was that when you

receive a job, you went into the school system, and you taught whatever social

studies course was available for teaching. And so think about the number of

courses in a social studies curriculum, from American Government, to American

History, to Psychology, Sociology, Economics; all of those things you were

expected to be able to teach. And so the question then becomes, how well

prepared are you to teach any subject matter, having graduated with a degree in

that way? Nevertheless, I came to Alachua County in the 1970s. I later received

a job at Buchholz High School, and I taught at Buchholz High School for over

thirty years in the social studies department. I taught American Government and

American History, and think about the curriculum for both those courses at the

time, both of which were very much void of anything African or African American.

I, however, had the privilege to teach an African American history course during

the 1990s at Buchholz High School on the Westside of Gainesville. And so, in

your minds many of you are saying, “Well, gee, how did that happen?” I’m glad


you asked that question. [Laughter] It happened because in reading information

from the study, I discovered that there was a description in the course directory

from the state of Florida for an African American history course. I had never

heard that before. I didn’t know there were many other people who were aware

that that existed. And so, I went to the Assistant Principal for curriculum at

Buchholz High School, and I said to her, “I would like to teach an African

American history course.” And she said to me, “If there is a description for the

course in the state directory, that means that you may then teach the course.”

She said the only thing that you have to do is to write a description for that

course for the Alachua County Course Directory, which I then proceeded to do,

and then in the spring of that year, students were asked to enroll in an elective

course in African American history. And it happened just that simply;

unbelievable. And so, you would think we were on the road to great success. We

did have some success. As students signed up for the course—and they did so

with their counselors, it was an elective course. So, students could sign up if they

chose to do so. It was a one-semester course and in most cases when it was

taught, it was taught one semester or the other. Rarely were there occasions

when there were two courses, one first semester and one second semester,

simply based on the enrollment. Now we could have another whole debate about

why the numbers for students signing up for that course were so small, and that

debate would have to involve a number of things. One of which would be, many

children did not feel comfortable signing up for an African American course.

Many African children did not feel comfortable, and many Caucasian children did


not feel comfortable. Many times, counselors have a great deal of influence on

who signed up for which courses. And then thirdly, oftentimes parents were not in

the game. So they did not know the courses being offered. They let their children

chose their own courses, and so they were not encouraging children to sign up

for that course. But the course went on for several years. Those students who

participated in it were primarily African American. They were all academic levels,

from students who were in honors courses to children who were in special

education. And the majority of them were successful in the class. So we were

very much a heterogeneous group, and of course it was taught to the level of all

of those children, with a curriculum which was unique and very unknown to most

of them. So the question then becomes—we often hear teachers say today, “I

don’t feel qualified to teach African American history.” And my response to that is

that in most cases, teachers are not qualified to teach the subject matter that

they’re teaching. You learn that subject matter when you teach it. As a matter of

fact, the best way to learn any subject matter is to teach it to someone else. And

so, we must leave that challenge on the table. Now, those who are at the district

level, and those responsible for teaching teachers, don’t shout too much,

because we’re not saying you have no responsibility. You do have a

responsibility to prepare teachers, and to provide for teachers what they need to

teach those things that they are to teach. However, teachers also must assume

of that responsibility. Now as I said, the course existed for a number of years at

Buchholz. Materials and curriculum materials were primarily any of those things

that I could find to use in the classroom. There were a number of textbooks that I


was able to find, which were written for high school students, believe it or not.

And then of course, there were the materials that I read that I used to prepare

myself to teach the course. There were films that were used as well, and many,

many kinds of activities. And so the program, I feel, was a success. The course

disappeared when the emphasis changed to, “every child needs to have a certain

number of math courses and English courses, and we have to make sure that

they pass the FCAT.” And as I’ve said before, many of the students in the course

were students who had challenges academically. And so, instead of allowing

them to register for African American history, they were told, “You must have

FCAT math, FCAT English, in addition to your regular math and English classes.”

And so, the population for the course disappeared, and as a result, then, it was

said that there were not enough students, and therefore the course could not be

taught. And as I close, the last thing that I would like to address is this question of

should we have a separate course in African American history, or should we

infuse African American history into all parts of the curriculum. Again, don’t shout,

I’m not going to take either side. I’m simply going to say that we must do both.

Think about it: African American history and African history are history. And so, it

should be a part of the curriculum. How can you teach history but not teach

African history and African American history? How can you teach the history of

this country and not include African Americans? Therefore, it must be infused in

all parts of the curriculum. If you’re teaching about scientific developments and

those things which have brought us to where we are, how can you teach it

without teaching those who invented those things? And African Americans


invented many of them. So if we are teaching history, it will automatically be

infused into the curriculum. But I will say also, that school districts must offer

courses in African American history, just as they offer courses of interest in

many, many other things. Everybody does not want to take a course in French,

but we offer French. Everyone does not want to take a course in wrestling, but

we offer wrestling. And so, I say the same is true of African American history.

There are those who will want to get more information and have a greater study

in African American history, and so they should then be allowed to choose a

course during which they would do that in addition to the things that they will get

in the general curriculum. Thank you. [Applause]

D: Our next speaker? Dan? [Laughter] Okay, okay.

DHa: First off all, I want to start off by saying that I had in mind a panelist to take my

place, and I’ll tell you why. I found out a little over a year ago that churches in this

area—I’m talking about African American churches—are teaching Black history.

They’re having programs. And I was invited to participate in a church on

Northeast 23rd Avenue. called Landmark Holy Temple of God. Black history

program. It was exciting. People were dressed in African costumes, and there

was another minister there. And this is the person I thought would be excellent to

take my place. His name is Pastor Willie Ross, and for those of you who want to

follow up, he told me yesterday he would not be able to be here. His church is

involved in many activities today. But when I went the next day—because he

invited me to participate in the Black history program—he had organized the

entire congregation to depict all the events of the African experience, and the


Civil Rights Movement, and so on. And the singing. And the sit-ins. And the

common hardships and successes that people had. And when I talked to him

about, could he be on the panel, he said, “You know, I’m so busy. But let people

know what we did. Let people know that I’m available.” He lives in this area. His

church is in East Palatka. He’d be happy to be a part of it. It’s something that you

really have to believe in to put in the energy to get this done. So I—first of all, I

want to start off and say, Black history, African American history, is being taught,

and many of the churches are doing the job because they are seeing that the

public school system is not. This is knowledge they need, and as I always point

out, the White students need it as much as the Black students. They need this

because it’s the real truth of our history. What I want to do now is do a kind of

show-and-tell. Here’s a magazine put out by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

When I was in Levy County—which is where my teaching experience was—I

learned from an article I read in the Gainesville Sun about David Colburn, the

history professor. And he was researching Rosewood. Well, here in Levy

County—I’m teaching at the time in Bronson, the closest community—it’s

halfway, Rosewood’s halfway between Cedar Key and Bronson—is Bronson. So

it’s definitely their history. Well, I will organize—I’m leading my social studies

class—and this is what later on appeared as an article in this Teaching Tolerance

magazine put out by the Southern Poverty Law Center: “Dan Harmeling, a Levy

County teacher, went against the grain.” You’ve got to get at your high history

that’s hard to deal with. “He developed a Rosewood course for his sixth grade

Florida History and eighth grade American History class. He collected historical


descriptions of the event, as well as present-day accounts, allowing his students

to examine the tragedy from a number of angles. In Harmeling’s view, Rosewood

shows that equal rights and equal justice were missing from our democracy in

the 1920s.” Our students need to know that. “Although he encountered

objections from some parents who felt that some history is best forgotten, he

notes that the 1964 [1994?]”—as Kali has said, that decision of the Florida

legislature, this is another aspect of that legislation—“to pay reparations to the

Rosewood survivors has brought the subject into the open. ‘Every community”—

I’m quoted in the paper as saying, “’needs to know its own past.’” Something else

I did—and this is because it’s kind of a show-and-tell—I’m a participant in active

Civil Rights activities, and it would’ve been 1990 that the KKK was going to be in

Palatka. [Inaudible 34:33]. So we organized a group of us to go there. And they

recorded, the Florida Times Union was there. And so this is on the teacher, Dan

Harmeling, of Levy County said, “He plans to use the experience as the basis for

a lecture in democracy which goes back to classes in Bronson High School.

Harmeling and a handful of others marched in front of the barricaded courthouse

parking lot.” We actually surrounded the Klan, they were very isolated. [Laughter]

And we were chanting, “Hey hey hey! Ho ho ho! The Ku Klux Klan must go!” And

we were [inaudible 35:12] that small group. “This is a real exercise in democracy,

Harmeling said.” We need to stand up for democracy. Especially at this time in

world history. “Harmeling called the Klan group ‘a hate group that promotes

White supremacy and oppression.’” Well, this is what the reporter had to note in

his article. It said, “One of the Klan pamphleters shouted at Harmeling, ‘Hey Jew-


boy! You’re the problem!’” [groans in audience] Well, whether I’m Jewish or not

had nothing to do with it, but they put me [inaudible 35:51]. Something else I did

at Bronson High School: we had a wonderful article written by columnist Bill

Maxwell. So we were familiar with his work, at the time, as being represented at

the St. Pete Times, now Tampa Times. It was twenty-four years ago that ten high

school students in rural Bronson, Florida—that’s a high school where he taught—

wrote their reactions to his column in the Gainesville Sun newspaper. He wrote a

small column for racial harmony. I’m not going to get into the contents, but I

printed inside, and I still have copies of course of what the students

handwritten—handwritten accounts of how they felt about this. And I printed

inside here, and I have copies if you’re interested, I’ll have them for you after the

program. The last thing I want to tell you about this, when we had our

organization at the University of Florida called Student Coalition Against

Apartheid Racism, and I was still teaching in Bronson. The passbooks that the

population in South Africa, that the people of South Africa had to carry because

the Whites were suppressing them, was something that I showed students.

“Really, we have to carry passports?” And so, what I did was, I printed out the

copied passbook, and then I [inaudible 37:21]. So we folded it up, and made a

little book out of it. And inside, of course, the person had to put their family name

and so on. And then inside, of course, we added some things: it says, “Human

rights in South Africa is [inaudible 37:37] because your skin is black. You don’t

have the right to choose where you work,” and so on and so on. And I found

among my students, the best way to engage them in a sense that history as a


part of their life, is to engage them in things that they can actually handle

themselves. It’s not just enough to show a film or a filmstrip, or to read a book,

but actually engage them as part of this democracy we have, where we’re all

realizing that the demographics of our great country—I hope it’s going to be a

great country—but it’s going to be better to increase our diversity, and realize as

years go by, the White population will be like every other population: a minority

population. There won’t be more than 51% of the whites here anymore. And I just

want to finish by saying, I’ve got a bunch of cassettes and DVDs, things that

show how we participated in this struggle to learn history that we’ve so often

forgotten. And, again, I’ll just share this with you if you’re interested after the

program. Thank you very much.

[Applause]

D: Thank you very much, Dan. And I think that having the passbook is just

wonderful. The students really get a feeling for what’s going on. And one other

thing I wanted to drive home: in 1994, when the law passed, it passed because

of the Rosewood claims hearing. People don’t know that. But it had never been

accepted until that time. That Claims Bill not only made sure that African

American history was taught, but the second thing, it made sure that there was a

Rosewood Scholarship. And we have to stress that. Every year, those

scholarships are being endowed, and they’re state-funded. And we need to have

our people apply for those scholarships. Just go to the Department of Education,

and then click on the area for scholarships, and work your way through, and

when you get down there, you’ll see Rosewood, you’ll see Marion County,


Florida, several African American-related scholarships. Of course, the

scholarship is four thousand dollars, one time. You have to be a student in

college, with at least one semester of grades, just one semester. It doesn’t have

to be a four-year college, it can be a two-year college, it could be a cosmetology

program, could be a truck driving school. The point of it is, the funding is

available. And we have to beg every year to find people to apply online. So to

me, this is very important, because this is educational, and it’s to carry us

forward. And the other thing I need to say: between the speakers, I want you to

take notes! You have—I see some people taking notes. You may want to write

down points or other personal stories that you want to come back and speak to

the group about. So this is most important that we remember some of the things

that they are saying, and begin to put them into play. Ms. Deidre, are you ready?

DHo: I, why not? How you doing? Are you tired? Are you still—are you guys still

listening?

[Murmurs of affirmation from audience]

DHo: Fantastic. So I want to share with you one story in American history, but

specifically African American history, that I think is really relevant to our

discussion about education in public schools. Hopefully, some of you in the

audience here, this is your story that I’m honored to share. And it’s the story of

Lincoln High School. So, in 1983—excuse me! In 1893, Professor A. Quinn

Jones was born in Spring Hill, Quincy, Florida. He went to his first schools at the

private homes of two African American women, and continued his education up

until the eighth grade at public school number one in Tallahassee, Florida. Most


African American schools in the early 1900s ended at the eighth grade, if there

was an African American segregated school in the community at all. But, Mr.

Jones continued his education at the State Normal College. Does anyone know

the name of that college? [Laughter] No? Other than my son, anybody else?

Florida A&M! Mr. Jones was part of the first graduating class, bachelor’s

graduating class in 1919 at FAMU. So he was there for eight years: he went

there for four years of high school, and four years of college. While he was there,

the coursework he took as a high school and a college student included

Advanced Physics, German, Current Events, Chemistry, English courses, five

years of Latin, and he maintained a vocational course in tailoring this entire time,

which would have prepared him to come out and enter into the world as a

professional tailor. But he didn’t. Instead, he chose to become a teacher. And he

came here to Gainesville, and in 1922, he founded Lincoln High School. Lincoln

High School lasted in Gainesville, Florida from 1922 to 1970, when it was closed

by the Alachua County School Board as part of the plan and the way in which we

integrated schools. It was closed for several years, and opened later as the

school we now call Lincoln Middle School. However, the history of this school, a

segregated African American school that was here for fifty years, is all but lost,

and certainly untold. There are some things I want you to be aware of and

remember about Lincoln High School, that are extraordinary. The first is that

Lincoln High School was one of two schools in the state of Florida that was

accredited in 1926. So Professor Jones came here in 1922, it was an eighth

grade school, as with most schools around the state. Each year from 1922 to


1926, he added a grade at that school, which he often taught, and in 1926 it was

a high school. But beyond the fact that it was a high school, it was one of two

schools in the entire state, African American schools, that were accredited, which

meant that the coursework was that of a world-class liberal arts curriculum. It

meant that the teachers at the school all had professional licenses, which was

hugely rare—remember, we’re talking about 1920 Jim Crow life. Okay? So, we

have teachers with professional certifications, and often bachelor’s and master’s

degrees. From 1926 to 1970, as that school continued, the way that that school

grew, was Professor Jones, and the teaching staff who were part of that school,

would graduate a child from high school and say to him, “We’re going to need a

librarian in four years. We’ve prepared you to go to college. You will go off and

get a degree in library science, and come back and be the librarian at this

school.” “We’re going to need a math teacher. You go off—“ The way that this

school grew was that it grew its own teachers, which was extraordinary, and

prepared them to go to college all across the country, as well as to enter into the

trades. So the noted faculty members, and staff, and students from the Lincoln

High School family, include: Charles Chestnut Sr., and the Chestnut family,

whom many of us are familiar with; T.B. MacPherson, for whom the MacPherson

Center, the city recreation center, is named—he was both a student and a

teacher at Lincoln High School; Ms. Wilhelmina Johnson, for whom the other city

recreation center is named—she was both a student and a teacher at Lincoln

High School; Andrew Mickle; Professor John Rawls; Professor John Dukes, who

became the first principal of Eastside High School in 1970 as Eastside High


School was integrated and built; and a number, a number of other professionals

and tradesmen who built Gainesville, essentially, from 1920 to the 1970s—

including Ms. Claronelle Smith-Griffin, for whom a speaker series is named

today. She was a teacher at Lincoln High School, who, when she graduated in

1926, the speech she gave as an eighteen-year-old to her high school peers in

the audience was, “The Negro’s Contributions to English Literature.” Okay? So

what was Lincoln teaching its students for those fifty years? It was teaching them

their place in the world, as well as what the world’s ideas looked like. I think

we’ve lost a little bit of that today. The last thing I want you to remember about

Lincoln, but I don’t think we talk about it now—I mean, if you do, if you are lucky

to hear the story of Lincoln, you hear about the football team, which was

phenomenal. It played other college teams. You hear about the tennis team. You

hear about the swimming team, if you do hear the story. But you don’t hear that

in 1956, Lincoln was once again accredited—this time, by the regional

accrediting association, which was called SACS. It’s the same association which

accredits high schools today—Buchholz, all of our schools are accredited by

SACS, and our colleges. The fact that Lincoln was accredited by SACS in 1956

as what they called an “accepted school”—that’s what they gave African

Americans, “accepted schools.” In order for an African American school to be

accredited by SACS in 1956 as “accepted,” it had to meet the same rating of

White schools that were “superior.” So that tells me, as a teacher-educator, and

someone who studies schools, that in 1956, if I want to put it in one sentence,

Lincoln had closed its achievement gap, and was an “A” school. Okay? So, why


does that story matter for us today, other than some nostalgic story of history?

First, it’s clearly a contribution of African Americans to society. I want us to think

about this. Prior to integrated schools, there were phenomenal African American

schools across the country that we don’t even talk about. We need to first talk

about the fact that those schools existed. Second, we need to talk about what

those teachers did in the classroom to have success with the students who were

before them. Today, if you talk to teachers, and teacher-educators, if you listen to

any broadcast on any channel any day that talks about education, what you’re

going to hear are these words: “high poverty.” The students who aren’t

succeeding, they come from backgrounds that are high poverty. Well, let me ask

you: Do we not think that in the middle of Jim Crow, the students who were at

Lincoln were suffering from high poverty rates? Far higher poverty rates than we

are suffering from today. We hear about ‘racial inequality,’ that the students are

victims of racial inequality in their communities. Do we not think that in the middle

of Jim Crow segregation, where people were getting lynched in Rosewood, that

these students who got to school every day and were able to learn were suffering

from racial inequality? But somehow, somebody taught them something every

day that said, “We’re not waiting for the opposition against us to end. We’re going

to make you the young men and women that it is your birthright to be.” I want you

to know that unless teachers are armed with this material, unless we say to

teachers, “It has been done, it can be done, and here’s how you do it,” we’re

going to continue to have excuses about why some children cannot learn. And

for me, that is unacceptable. We today, often in the education field, we’re looking


at Finland. Finland is what you hear when we think about a successful school

system. I want to suggest to you that we stop looking at Finland, and we start

looking in our own backyard.

[Audience murmurs assent.]

DHo: That’s it, thank you.

[Applause]

D: [Inaudible during applause.] I do want to just make one comment. When

desegregration happened in, our schools were closed, we didn’t have our high

schools anymore. Well there’s one example where that did not happen, and that

was in Monroe, New Orleans—Louisiana. Yes. And I’m doing a study right now

with Dr. Granville. And we’re looking at that system, because they did not have to

close their schools like everybody else around the country. That’s the only one

that I know of that did not have to do that. And so, the fellow that I’m working with

is Dr. Granville, and I can give you information about him, and we can share that.

And we can compare what has happened to all of our schools, and what

happened to that one little town that did not close up their African American

schools, their high schools and so forth. But anyway, we need to move on to our

next speaker. Cassandra?

M: Good afternoon.

Audience: Good afternoon.

M: How many people are parents out there? Or if you’re parents or guardians,

grandparents? Okay. Keep your hands up. I want to see them hands for a

minute. You are responsible. [Laughter] I am responsible. Put your hands down.


[Laughter] My name is Cassandra. I’m educator and I’m parent. I educate in my

home. What did I say, again? What did I say?

[Audience murmurs something inaudible]

M: So I’m not putting the blame on all teachers. Oh, maybe a little. There are many

books out there that, as parents, we can support our children and help them. I

live in a poor community. So what? I’m here to say that we, as parents, can do

the best for our children. Did you know that there was an African American who

helped develop the cell phone? Did you know that? Did you know that there are

many African Americans in this world who have helped you and me to get where

we’re standing? And I want my children to know our past. I want to tell them

about Harry T. Simmons, who helped to invent the gamma electric phone. The

phone that you put up to your ear? If it wasn’t for him, you wouldn’t have it.

Guess what? He’s an African American. He was the first person to get a degree,

that wasn’t an electrician, to help us to get that cell phone. What I say is that you

are also responsible for the education that goes on in the system. Now I have a

book here. It’s an old book. It says Great Negroes Past and Present. It is a book

that I have used for many years for my children. And I’m sure many of you have

of books that you have used for your children as they come up. Well, what I’m

saying is that you cannot depend all the time on the education system. You are

the first teachers that your children have wired. So it is our responsibility to go

into that school system to find out what your child is learning, how they are

learning it, and who’s teaching it. It is not the Education Department, it is your

responsibility. And if it wasn’t for you making those steps, guess what? A lot of


things wouldn’t change. So parents, stop being comfortable. Because guess

what? You make the difference. You make a difference with the teacher, you

make a difference with the educators. If you sit down and say, “Oh, well they

know what they need.” No, they won’t. I have two special education children. And

I have to be there every week, because I want to make sure my child is what?

Learning. And they help you know about themselves, to be able to do what? To

move forward. I want them to know that the great African Americans, they built

that pyramid. I want them to find out the Egyptians, who built, the great Blacks.

Because they smart. Many of our people long ago are responsible for the

medical technologies that are here today. But because we have sat down so

long, and been comfortable, as parents and educators, the schools systems can

get away with what? Anything they want. But if you go to school, just like your

child—I have my children here. And I have a seven-year-old. And when she says

something to me, I say, “Hm. Maybe I can convince the school.” But if you say,

“Yeah, okay.” Guess what? You have missed an opportunity to not only educate

yourself, but also your child. Because if she is my child and I care, then they’re

going to make them expect to do better in school. If they know their history—not

only slavery. Slavery’s what? A small part of me as an African American. It is not

my whole history, it is not my cause—

[Applause]

M: And it’s not my future. It is a part of me. And we, as African Americans and as

people, have to stop putting slavery as an excuse. It is not an excuse for my child

to do bad in school. It is not an excuse for me not to go to school to find out why


they’re not doing better. So, I want to see those hands that raised a little while

ago. Those hands, White parents too. Again. It is on you.

[Applause]

D: Wonderful, wonderful. You’ve really got a good [inaudible 58:29] here. Patricia is

now coming up, and she’s going to share with us her area. I’m going to say that

Kali, he dealt with the history; with Delores, she dealt with the school system and

fusion and separation of the classes—she had a separate class which must be

infused—I’m just putting it into simple terms. Dan, he dealt mainly with the

community. Dealing with the putting it into the churches, because the churches

are doing great things, and the community social organizing. Working with the

community to make sure the history is taught. Now, we come up now to

Cassandra. She just got to talking about parents, and the relationship between

the parents and the schools. But, Deidre: I love what you did as well. Because

you dealt with the Lincoln school. You brought it home. And we must know our

own history, in order to function. Even for the people coming in now; I wasn’t

born and raised here, but my kids went to school here, and I can relate to

Cassandra. I went into the school system practically every day. I have had a child

to go through the school system, so I hear what you’re saying, and I agree. Pat?

H-N: Thank you. Mic over here. And I guess the first thing I want to say is, can I get a

amen?

[Applause]

H-N: Can I get an Ashe!

Audience: Ashe!


H-N: Whoo! I really don’t need to say anything because they really said it all, and you

all are going to be sharing so much more in just a minute. And so, I’m just going

to touch on just a few points here. My husband and I, we were having dinner with

one of my daughters and we asked to see the syllabus for her World History

class. She was a junior—I think she was in tenth or eleventh—but she gave me

the syllabus, and it was a World History class, and there was nothing in the

syllabus about Africa. Okay? And so unfortunately, it was at night, so I couldn’t

run up to the school right then. So I had to wait until the next day. I was one of

those parents who was always there, PTA president, this, that, and the other

thing. But I could not have that and understand that teacher corrected that issue.

But I need to point that out because these are just little things that happen that

people take for granted. How can you have a syllabus, how can you teach a

class in world history and exclude Africa? I couldn’t believe it. We had a meeting

with that teacher, who acknowledged that that was problematic. But I think we all

need to do a little bit of Sankofa, going back to fetch it. It’s an Akan symbol with a

bird looking back. All people, we’re victims of miseducation and that’s part of the

lessons we must learn. Carter G. Woodson talked about this issue, the problem

when you have not learned the history of all people, The Miseducation of the

Negro. And it happens that newspapers, books, television, film, schools, theme

parks. Okay? Where do you have to go when you go to Disney to learn about

Africa? You go to Animal Kingdom, right? The Epcot center they have a small

thing about Morocco, but they really don’t touch on Africa. You can see here just

from the cartoon to the old books that become the new books to the stereotyping


of popular people. So just a few notes, when we’re talking about this, we’re

talking about presenting the whole story of humanity and not just episodes. The

whole store of African and Black people, and not just episodes. Infused in

multiple disciplines. We want to deal with pre-enslavement, as people have said;

the middle passage, so we can understand—where we talk about pre-

enslavement because we have to understand what life was like before anybody

ever came and faced those problems, and the mental illness and the

miseducation that came about. How did people function then? The use of labor in

the United States to understand how African people built this country with their

labor, despite the fact that people say they’re lazy and shiftless—[Applause]—

and they were inventing things, they were working. We would not have had the

wealth. Even in Alachua County, we would not have the wealth that we have

were it not for those hands. So when we talk about enslaved people, it’s not to

stay there but these were human beings who were inventing things. We don’t

want to skip over that. Because despite what was going on, they were making

contributions, and that’s very important. We have to do it beyond Black History

Month. Because people say, “Oh we’re going to do our Black program in

February, we’re going to write a report about Black people in February, Black

athletes in February.” No, it should be infused everywhere. I’ll give you a few

examples about how it might be done. Okay? So we have diverse history here in

America, we can’t begin to scratch the surface. Kali can dazzle you with certain

things. I can’t think of one thing but I’ll to just touch on a couple of things here.

And then I can’t dazzle you with one fact about Africa, because there’s so many


things. But I will say that we must start our story in Africa because so far as we

know, that is the origin of humanity. [Applause] And that means that all of us in

this room are what? Family! Everybody in here is my family, is my cousin. We are

all related. And we have to learn that story. You read we start to take on different

phenotypes based on where your people live. Your skin lightens up, your hair

sometimes it gets tightly curled, and then you meet up again somewhere else,

and then it’s like, “Oh, I don’t like you because you look different.” But we are

family. Also in Africa they laid the very foundations when you’re talking about

engineering, when you’re talking about mathematics, when you’re talking about

science. So when people were kidnapped and sent to America, shipped over,

they did not come over here empty. They already knew things, they brought the

talent, they brought the skills with them, and that’s why the miseducation part is

so damaging. Because people were miseducated about that, to the point when I

have visited schools in this school district, and go to the class with the little

children—“How many of you want to go to Paris?” “Yea!” And they’re so sweet.

“And how many of you want to go to Ghana?” And then there’s, “Hm?” And then

there’s, “How many of you want to go to Africa?” “Euggh!” And then I say, “Well,

why not?” “Oh, well they’re poor,” or “They’re stupid,” or “They’re ugly.” The

things that they are taught—and it does start at home, but there are things we

can also do in school. So first, just a few facts as we start just here in Florida,

Alachua County, when we’re talking with kids, and you say, well when do you

know that some Africans came here? We can talk about Juan Garrido who we

know came some five hundred years ago. Five hundred years ago he’s traveling


with Ponce de Leon, left Ponce de Leon. He traveled with Hernando Cortez,

winds up there in Mexico. Took wheat-growing practices to Mexico. Ivan van

Sertima wrote about Juan Garrido in his book, They Came Before Columbus,

where they were talking about the African presence in South America. And

people said, “Oh that can’t be true,” until what happened? They found his

pension records. When he wrote to the Spanish crown and said, “Look I did

these things. I traveled here, I traveled there.” This was free African explorer who

was traveling with those people. You have to know here in Alachua County

something about Seminoles. Seminole Indians who were mixed people, who

included Africans. Some of their descendants still live in Alachua County. They

didn’t run everybody out. Who included many Africans, including Negro

Abraham, who married Billy Bowlegs’ wife when Billy Bowlegs died. These are

the people who traced Payne’s Prairie right here. Native Americans, these were

Black people right in Alachua County. Some of them fled and made it to the

Bahamas as well, including Osceola, who was mixed. Most of his warriors,

however, were African people. They fled from the Northern states here. So you

know with that middle passage that came later, and you had people saying that

people were enslaved by Africans who participated. People from different

nations: the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Dutch. There were different religious

people who enslaved people. They brought them here, including to the state of

Florida. Here in Gainesville, when you’re talking about Gainesville history I would

think that you could tell children, “Well gee, one of the oldest houses in

Gainesville, the Bailey House, is still standing, and that was built by enslaved


labor.” You can still go today and see that house on 6th Street. That’s a testament

to the skill. You can talk about the population of Alachua County, and who was

living here during what period. You can talk about the fact that by 1870—I’m

skipping over a lot of information but just to give you a taste—that over 70% of

the population here in Alachua County was Black. Very important. So, African

Americans influenced things with faith, in the faith community. They were always

teaching history. Who was talking about that in the church? We’ve always taught

Black history in the church. That’s always been a thing. Political history, business

history, education, and in fact all of these things were interconnected when

you’re talking about the experience of African Americans in Alachua County. So

what are some practical ways that teachers can touch on little facts related to

African American history? One of the problems I always hear, “Well how can I do

it with Mathematics? I don’t see how I can do it with Mathematics.” Well when

you’re talking about Mathematics, how can talk about the Great Pyramid and not

understand—you have to understand what? Geometry, physics, trigonometry, all

these things I didn’t do that great in. [Laughter] If you can remember them, right?

You also had to know something about astronomy. Because at the time that

those Pyramids were built, there were chutes within the Pyramid where you could

be at a certain place, and look through the chute and observe specific stars in the

night sky. So just to build the Great Pyramid, you had to build some messed up

pyramids to get to that point. Right? But then you all already know about that.

Teaching about African fractals. This man wrote a book about the fractals, and

flying in an airplane and looking at African villages overhead. And he looked at


the repetition of certain patterns even in how people laid out their village. Look at

the woman here who teaches math by looking at patterns in nature. She borrows

from that African fractal concept and looking at the braids on the woman’s head,

which mirrors the bee’s honey comb, and the comb patterns in the braids.

Wouldn’t that be fun for little children to learn about that? And then of course, the

Rhind Mathematical Papyrus, where they already knew about the Pythagorean

Theorem before Pythagoras was born. We won’t get into all of that. [Laughter

and applause]. Medicine, the Ebers Medical Papyrus they were talking about real

medical recipes to cure things. We’re talking about all kinds of medicine where

people talking about—this is a real interesting one. People know about Cotton

Mather up there in Winston Salem, Massachusetts, but what about one of his

enslaved people, Onesimus? They even know he had slaves and probably didn’t

know about Onesimus, who was enslaved by him, who taught him about the

practice of what? Inoculation, or vaccination against small pox. Look you cut

yourself, put a little bit of the thing in there. Leave it you’ll see, you’ll be protected.

And those who followed the wishes of his enslaved laborer survived at a higher

rate than those who didn’t. Y’all can read about that later, that’s just a little taste

of that. And also, just the midwives. The midwife. I see my friend here Tioga.

That was an old practice, who do you think was delivering all these babies, these

women? Not in a hospital. They had places like Jenny Rowe’s hospital, which

was over here in the Pleasant Street area, and that’s where people would go to

get help. Political Science and Social Studies: we know about Rosa Parks, but

few people know about Claudette Colvin. And few people know about the


Women’s Political Council who, before Rosa Parks, before Martin Luther King,

were already getting arrested. And they were trying to desegregate the buses,

and trying to earn the right to vote. Claudette Colvin was not the good poster

child they wanted to use, that’s why Rosa Parks—not to take anything from her—

was used. How can you teach art and not mention the Harlem Renaissance?

[Affirmation from audience.] And this happened in elementary school. I

mentioned that to an art teacher who was one of my children’s—I won’t mention

the school. I’m like oh we can do the Harlem Renaissance, and they looked at

me like I was crazy, talking about the Harlem Renaissance. That’s an obvious fun

way. Quote the poetry, the dance, the painting, the philosophy that you can

incorporate dealing with art. The Black Art Movement is another connected

solidly to the so-called Hip-Hop culture and the rap culture, and using that like

Ms. Gloria Merriex did to teach math. And she had a math dance and a math rap.

And may she rest in peace. And so those are just a few—when you’re thinking

about Alachua County, we have traces of the past everywhere here. From the Dr.

Robert Ayers, the first Black doctor here in the area, to the Sanchez family, to

the of course Haile Plantation home people can go and visit. There’s so many

things. I cant go into all of that right now. But just to know that just with the

Chestnut family, that one family—and this is just example of many—they’re

celebrating their one hundred years in business with the funeral home. And many

people don’t realize that not only were they in business that long, but longer than

that, the family has been involved in politics with their great, great grandfather.

This is Charles Chestnut Sr., who founded the funeral home when his


grandfather, Johnson Chestnut, was on the Gainesville City Commission. The

Charles Chestnut that you all know, this is his grandmother. She was enslaved

here in Alachua County. So see, there’re all these connections, both with people

who had been enslaved and those who were the enslavers who still live here in

this community, work here and do all kinds of things. So that’s important. You

can’t have children graduate from our school system and not know about Josiah

T. Walls, who was a teacher, who was a miller, he owned over a thousand acres

of land here in Alachua County here. He was a state representative, the second

elected mayor, was in Congress three times because they kicked him out. He

had to fight over that. Whereas we would not have another Black

congressperson representing the state of Florida until the early [19]90s when

Alcee Hastings, Gregory Meeks, and Corrie Brown went all those years later.

And then he wasn’t an anomaly. There were many other people like Matthew

Lewey, Johnathan Gibbs—Secretary of Education, Supervisor of Public

Instruction in Florida and look at that: in 1868, 1872. That’s why we have public

education in the state of Florida today. [applause] Okay? Because he saw that

vision. In fact, it was controversial, and there was some funny business about

how he died. There’s James Weldon Johnson. Yes, he wrote, “Lift Every Voice

and Sing,” but James Weldon Johnson was also a lawyer. Was also an activist.

Was also heavily involved in the NAACP. And there were others: Henry Carman,

admitted to the Bar in 1869; John Wallace, another one, his son’s still living in

Jacksonville. So there are other people, there are other names that we would

involve, but it’s very important that we take this holistic approach. I agree that we


infuse, and have separate classes. And we haven’t scratched the surface of the

information that is available. And I know that there are many people that are out

here that have stories to tell. So I’m going to cut this short, but I want to stress

that it is our parents, that the children have responsibility, definitely the teachers,

the deans, the principals, the elected officials, and we’re all a part of the

community. So I can say, let’s just get busy and stop wasting time and coming up

with excuses. Thank you! [Applause]

D: All right, that was outstanding. It really was. [Applause] It was beautiful, thank

you Patricia. Now we know it’s on our program, it says, “Question and answers,”

but I want to put something else in here just before we get there. We’ve heard so

much, but I want to make sure that we know the people from the Task Force and

other areas who are here. I waited to do that to make sure everyone was in

place. Those that are here from the Alachua County School Board—I did see

McNeal here. Any other school board members, would you please stand up

school board members. And I’m sorry I don’t know McNeal—. [Applause].

[Inaudible 1:18:30] Yes, I understand. And we thank you so much for coming. I

was trying to wait until everybody was here from the division. So we’re [inaudible

1:18:45] and also McNeal, he’s here. Thank you so much. And then we have–I

don’t know if we have any city commissioners here. I didn’t see any. We’ll skip

down to—oh, is there a city commissioner here? Please stand. [Discussion] All

right, so we did have a city commissioner here. Two? All right, excellent,

excellent! Okay, so school board, two people; city commission, two people. I’d

like to know if we have any elementary school teachers here. Elementary? All


right, middle school? Any middle school teachers here? [Applause] All right

[inaudible 1:19:36] back there. High schools, all right, Marna, we have two high

school teachers here. Excellent, excellent. Now, I just want to have the task force

members to stand. All of you that are here, and Dr. Simmons just came in.

Where is she? The planning committee and all of us, please. [Applause] Yes.

These people need to be recognized. Thank you so much. They have worked so

hard to make sure we have this town hall meeting, and we have the opportunity

to express our desires and help the community. Now we going to go back to the

question and answer, from the community and from the panel. And I’d like you to

just raise your hand if you have a question. And then, in turn, we’ll have the panel

members to respond to you. And while you’re getting that in line, keep in mind

that Kali is the first one at the end down there, and he talked mostly—

[Applause]—he talked mostly about our history and African American history and

how important it is. Delores talked about the schools, being a teacher in the

school system. She talked about offering separate course. She also talked about

infusing the subject matter or doing both, and how she went about getting a

course set up in the Gainesville area. Dan talked about the community. He talked

about the churches, and he gave us the name of one of the pastors, Willie Ross.

He talked about the singing and the other activities that we have in the

community, and how he interacted in teaching African American history. Deidre

did a wonderful job of talking mainly about Lincoln and the relationship with

Lincoln and how it grew. And how in the world did they close up Lincoln when

that that school was accredited by the SACS association with so many other


schools that were non-African American that did not have that accreditation?

[Applause] That’s something we need to look at and talk about. That’s why I

brought up the Monroe school that we know, that did not have to do that. Okay,

the next person was Cassandra, and she talked about parenting, and what

parents have to do and should be doing in working with their children. And she

made another strong point in regards to slavery; and we don’t just teach slavery,

but we teach everything up to present. Because slavery’s just one aspect of our

history. But I will say that not teaching slavery in the sense of not dealing with the

sex trade and the drug trade, that’s a form of slavery that we cover, and that’s

slavery, too, that’s affecting people all across this country. All right, now we have

Patricia. And Patricia, I’m going to give you the title of world history, and I put

there, “Going back to fetch it.” I love that term, and Sankofa. And then she went

on to talk about the miseducation of the Negro. But you know, I think the bottom

line of all of this is economics. If we go back to economics and telling the truth, I

think that’s where you should be. But anyway, those are just general points. Now,

we’re opening it up for discussion. So if you would raise your hand. I may not

know you—and, yes.

Audience 1: Ray Washington. I was fortunate enough to attend some of the sessions

that Kali had at the Civic Media Center. One of the things that really had an effect

on me in particular was to see young Black males who were so interested in this.

And this idea that it doesn’t interest people, it’s fascinating. It’s about who people

are, how they think, where they come from. And so I want to ask you a question,

but before I do, I’ll give a little background about why I’m asking it. Whether you


are White or you are Black, whether you’re Hispanic, African history is important

to everybody. It’s not just important to African Americans. When I was a young

man I went to the Zimbabwe ruins. In 2011, my son was in the Peace Corps in

Mali. I went over there. We started in Timbuktu, which is an African center of

learning, but unfortunately Al-Qaeda had come in to burn the libraries there. So

those are the original sources, but here when you’re looking at the stories, one of

the problems is who is the author of the stories. And when I was a very young

man, in my early twenties, in the early [19]80s I wrote a column for the New York

Times company, and someone else came up with the idea, and they called it

“Cracker Florida.” Now, I was sent out for a number of years to go around the

state and talk to people whose experience went back—in other words, who had

something to do with the state. But I always found that the Black communities

were most connected, and so I ended up having to do a book about this. And I

had to know [inaudible 1:25:10]. So I wrote the foreword, and the foreword of the

book was something like, you know a Muslim from Africa who’s going through the

Middle Passage, in a multi-river town in Belize, there is actually a lot more in

common in their central worldview than a African American in this country who

may be living right next to a cattle rancher in Sulfur Springs. So, there are

worldviews that are there, and it’s really important to see that. A couple of

examples of this. I went out in the early [19]80s hunting with a guy named

[inaudible 1:26:01] who lived in Rosewood. And this is to show you how different

angles work on stories, this was long before anyone knew about Rosewood. It

came up later in the [19]80s. And so, we were out cutting down palm trees. I’m


not sure if it was legal, but we were taking the hearts of palm out. That’s what his

business was, and I was just watching him cutting. I said, “Can you tell me some

stories about what’s here?” He said, “You have homesteads this way.” He said,

“The only thing that ever happened here was the Rosewood riot.” The riot. So, to

the White folks, this was a bunch of Black people who were rioting, and it was

their fault. And so, there was no history. So I was asked to be a lecturer at the

Journalism school at the University of Florida, and somebody asked me, “What

are the stories that you haven’t gotten around to writing about?” I said, “Hey, this

is a great story about Rosewood.” There was a guy in the audience from

Mississippi who was writing all this stuff down. He later came back and said,

“Can you tell me more about this?” I said sure. Gave him some information. He

later went down to St. Pete Times, wrote the story—

D: Yeah. Gary Moore.

Mitchell: —kind of went crazy. He’s my questions. Who writes the story is what

matters, and that initial story that Gary Moore wrote is not the story that has

evolved as time goes on. So even though—the story of Abraham; in the early

[19]80s, there was a guy named [inaudible 1:27:45], a White man, who ran the

Negro [inaudible 1:27:45]. I met him, and he explained to me these [inaudible

1:27:50] that where and there were people at this fort that were massacred, but

from that point of view, they were people who were bad people who needed to be

put down. So my question is, how can history, in this kind of environment, be

taught? And I’ll just give you one last example. It’s a broad question about who

writes history. One last thing, it’s very important. As many of you know–Kali I


think you’re from Detroit or Michigan or something. Elijah Muhammad, his name

is Elijah Poole. He grew up around Detroit. Went up to Detroit, tried to teach

Black history in the schools there and was—it was called the University of

Islam—and he was arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Even

though the kids had a school. So we’re past that now but there are impediments

to teaching. It’s not just can you teach it, it’s what are you teaching. So my

question, with all that general background, how do you teach and know that

you’re teaching a story that has maybe the grain of truth to the people who lived

through it?

D: All right, we have Kali, would you please pass the microphone?

B: I definitely understand that question, and every time I’ve been involved in a

teaching situation—as you see on the quiz you were handed out, on the side with

the answers, it’s a big question mark. It says, “Question the source. If you trust,

then verify.” So it is important at any time to teach from multiple sources,

especially sources that come across different time periods. I talked about human

origins and told you that the biological, the historical, and the archaeological

record agree. So you look for multiple agreements, multiple sources, so it’s

trusted and verified. What we have in schools, the Greco-Roman origin of

civilization, is not verified, it’s just a popular paradigm set up on myths and

legends.

D: Are there any other comments from any of the other panel members? Yes,

Deidre, you can take my microphone.


DH: I think the first thing that we need to do with regard to children is remind them it is

that not just okay but it is necessary to question. So you have to teach your child

that questions about how come?, why is that?, who said it?, all the stuff that we

say is kind of disrespectful, those are really essential habits of mind to have if

you want to get at what’s the truth, and whose truth is it. There might be a way in

which you pose those questions that are respectful, and respectful of the people

you’re speaking with, but we have to re-instill in children that they have to ask

those questions and they have to be comfortable asking those questions.

D: Thank you are there any other comments? Yes!

M: I think also now there are many different sources, and also you can do a lot of

research. Like when my son wrote something for a paper, he went to many

different sources. And many of us as adults, we do that. We don’t go to one

source, we go to many sources to look up to see who can verify the fact. And I

think when it comes to teaching African American, even in the home and at

school, we have to look at many sources and to see how they either correspond

or contradict. Because African American history, again, is an infusion; it is not

just one thing, it is an infusion of many different cultures, also. Africa is not just of

one culture or one language. There are many thousands of different languages

and many different practices. And when you come down to it, you have to also

look at the stories.

H-N: The source, the source, the source. And as we repeat information, it’s very

important to use sources, or at least have some type of bibliography or citation

sheet that you can send to people. But I agree with what they said, part of our job


is to teach people to think critically, and that’s probably one of the greatest

challenges sometimes as a teacher, particularly when you’re teaching African

and African American history and culture. Because people have been socialized

to perceive Black people a certain way, women a certain way. And so you have

to first tear down some of those stereotypes, if you will, and free their mind, so

that they can be critical observers of everything that they see in their culture. And

even if they’re holding the book, what is the source? Who said it? Under what

circumstances? Especially because we have taught people that what you get—if

it’s printed, then it’s accurate. Or if it’s in the newspaper, unless [inaudible

1:33:39]’s writing it—[Laughter]—it’s accurate. And we know that people lie. And

unfortunately our children have not learned that. And as lies get repeated, that’s

why we’re in this situation today. So very important to present the citation and

teach them to be critical observers.

D: Thank you for these comments. And I believe these are very direct to what we

need. Yes ma’am. I don’t know your name. Would you stand and give your name

and we’re going to give the microphone to you? [Discussing the microphone]

Audience 2: I was in tenth grade doing history and I asked a question, “Well you said

about the light bulb, but do you know about the who made it? It wasn’t a White

person, it was a Black person that made it. It was just the White person got it

from a Black person. Do you know that? And I got in a lot of trouble, I actually got

a referral for even questioning her. So how do you go about doing that if you are

going to get in trouble?. A lot of students get in trouble when they question it, and

then they getting referrals and things like that just for saying something.


D: All right this is a perfection question that needs to be—Cassandra, you want to—

all right can I—?

M: I’ll address it because I’m the parent so I had to deal with the school system with

things like that. Again, you have to approach the teacher, and you approach

those who are in charge. Because we have to go through the school board to find

out. So that many of the things that she had as referrals would be taken off the

records, because she asked questions, and that meant, that was many of her

problems, that sometimes the teachers do not like the challenge but they do not

know the knowledge. Again, it comes up to a problem of the knowledge. If you

are going to teach, you also need to know. And that’s sometimes where the

problem comes in. Many of our teachers don’t know the material of African

Americans. Maybe they’re afraid to approach it because they feel that they will be

criticized, or that they don’t know how to teach the subject. And the thing is, if

you’re learning along with the children, it is easy. But if you’re going to take a

defensive stand, it becomes a problem for both of you.

B: I have a response. I am very disturbed by the fact that you went through that just

for trying to get the truth as a student, as a learner, and your teacher was

punishing you for seeking and correcting. Now that’s what I want to talk to, our

intellectual regression. What should have happened back then, the situation we

hope to build going forward, so that we get the implementation of this law, is that

at that time you as a student should have been able to go home and tell that to a

parent who has studied some of these books we have over here. And that parent

can go, “I know the history, and you will not punish my child over history.” That’s


what we need. The ten counties where this has been implemented were counties

where the community took the place of the missing implementation structure of

this law. Every time a law is passed in Florida, they have to go through a set of

volumes called, “The State Administrative Code.” And they put chapter and verse

of exactly how that law must be carried out, what will it look like, who’s

responsible, when it’s supposed to happen, how it will be evaluated, and what is

your punishment if you don’t do it. All that stuff was not done for this law. In the

copy, you see where I underlined the words “encourage” and “pursue.” Those are

not words that make a law happen. This is law has happened in ten counties

where you, the community, said, “We pay for these schools, we know the law, we

vote you into office, and you will do this.” That’s what we’re calling on for you to

do. So these books over here, this library has a tremendous collection of the

history that many of us need to catch up on. It’s so tragic. I talked about how

Africans came to this country, separated from they story. So some of us are in

situations today, we’re tired to go out and tell people, “You don’t know your

history.” It sounds insulting. How do I tell someone, maybe older than myself,

“You don’t know your history?” And they may be a pillar of the community, have a

house three times bigger than mine, and I’m going to say, “You don’t know your

history?” But they think they do. Because they know Harriet Tubman, and Martin

Luther King, and Frederick Douglass, and think that’s it. But one of the symptoms

of amnesia, I talked about being a victim of amnesia. One of the main symptoms

of amnesia is similar to a person with a heart attack. That first phase is denial,

unawareness of not knowing what is missing. So we need to get past that phase.


And so we need you, this community, to get into that material, study it, know it,

share it; that’s why we have sign-up lists over there. We want you to sign up for

the books you’re interested in, and we’re going to help the library circulate these

books quicker, but we want you discussing this. And then we have a cadre of

people who go back to the teachers, back to the school board, and say, “We

know what the history is. It’s not right here. And you can’t tell us that what we

know is not right.”

D: Thank you so much. I’d like to call on this lady. I’m sorry, I can’t see your name

tag? Oh, that’s right I’m sorry. Okay then, thank you.

Audience 3: My question speaks to some of obstacles to teaching African and African

American history in our schools. And I first want to say that I, as an educator, see

our current paradigm of education deteriorating and collapsing. And in that

deterioration comes very promising new ways of thinking about education.

Historically, history has been taught in a way that teaches our youth that we’re

divided, that we’re divided into different tribes. And it’s been alluded to here that

we all have a common African ancestry when it goes back. I think if we are able

to communicate that in our history, starting in elementary school, then we’re

couching our social studies history in unity and community. Another really

promising way of education, looking at global education, is cultural competence

for teachers. And I think that that’s a really big obstacle for getting teachers to

teach African—specifically African American history—because there are so many

elements in the room. It’s emotionally very charged, and I think that cultural

competence involves looking at cultural lenses, so making explicit for teachers


regardless what their background is, what their cultural lens is, will empower

them to teach subjects that they might not be comfortable teaching. And then

lastly, I’m curious if you considered social-emotional learning, which is gaining a

lot of importance in this new paradigm in education. And I don’t think that we can

effectively teach African American history without a social-emotional component,

because it will bring up a lot of emotions with the teachers and for the

administration, but most importantly for the students. And it’s those emotions and

social dynamics, since our schools are probably one of the largest reflections of

institutionalized racism in our communities, and so if you don’t, especially in the

upper grades, not looking at those emotions that are being brought up, then it’s

not really a successful effort. So I’m just curious have you looked at those global

education, in looking at African history, but then also the social-emotional

component, and that’s something to discuss.

D: With your question, we’ll have the panel to respond, but I want to go back to this

young lady, because what happened with her child is tied right into what you

said. It was an attitude of the teacher toward that child. And teachers have to-

especially elementary, we have to be able to listen to the child and accept what

they are saying, and not feel threatened. It seems as if that teacher, from what I

heard, was somewhat threatened by what the child asked. So what I’m seeing is

more in-service education for these teachers, so that they will have opportunity to

deal with some of situations that they are going to come across. It needs to go

back into the colleges too, before they come out, and make sure that they’ve

some diversity training and other types of training that will allow them to work


with students of all kinds and cultures. Because I mean, there are so many

cultures out there now, and they have to be sensitive to those. And I see this as

where you are responding, and this is seemingly one of the keys if we are going

to go forward. We can teach it in our communities, yes. But we’ve got to have the

teachers on board, because they are to work with all students. So I’m going to

open this up to the panel if you have more—okay, Deidre?

DH: Hey Leah! So this is what I’ve learned. You used a lot of really modern

educational, cutting edge terms like social-emotional learning. When I think about

A. Quinn Jones, and when I’m reading what he did, and his research, we would

call that having some kind a moral sense of values, and some guiding virtues

with which they would interact with children. So, know that you’re a person in the

world, and that this is another person, and both of you have equal footing as far

as being two humans in this world. So I think that they’re not new concepts at all;

social and emotional learning, and giving a child—Dr. John Dukes, who becomes

a principal of another school, he talks about, in the oral history transcript, about

one day when he was making fun of A. Quinn Jones. And A. Quinn Jones stood

and watched him. He watched John Dukes make fun of him in front of the whole

class, he didn’t know that professor A. Quinn Jones was behind him. And he let

him make fun of him, and say all that, and parrot the way he talked and—the way

that children do when they’re talking about their teachers. And when he was

finished, he just looked at him and said, “Are you finished now?” And the young

man, of course, is like, “Yes, sir.” And then he didn’t say another word for a good

five minutes of silence, and then he went back to whatever professional


conversation he was having with this child, which says a whole lot more than,

“You know you shouldn’t blah, blah, blah,” but to say, “I don’t even have time to

stoop to that level. My job is to bring you up.” So there are ways that our people

have done this for a really long time that we might want to put back on the table.

And I also want to suggest with regard to—we’re talking about “cultural

competency.” So that’s the new catchphrase in education. We’re talking about

cultural responsible teaching, and cultural competency, and how teachers need

to understand the students they’re working, with and we need to send them to an

in-service to learn about the students. Professor A. Quinn Jones mandated that

the teachers who were going to teach at Lincoln live in the neighborhoods that

the students lived in. [Applause] That makes sense to me! I couldn’t say that in a

school board meeting today. I mean, somebody would tell me about how it’s my

law, it’s my right, I can’t do that, you can’t tell me where to live, and whatever.

That’s where we are today in education. But I do want to just put on the table,

that that is an option in the real world that has been used, and it seemed to be

pretty successful. And he required teachers to go to the churches where the

students were attending church and the families were attending church, and in

the speeches that I’ve read of his, and in his professional development, never

once did it say you need to believe the faith that they’re believing. But that’s

where they are. So you need to be there on Sunday. And when you’re there, you

need to talk to them about the school and what we’re doing. So there are a lot of

way to look at how to make some sensible decisions with our children that are


old. I’m continually just trying to suggest that we’ve got some old ways that

worked. [Applause]

D: Thank you, thank you. Any other comments? All right, we’ll go to the microphone

and yes. Oh, she’s holding it! All right well then the lady, I’m sorry miss, I don’t

know your name, but tell me your name again.

Audience 3: I had a question about the history and what we knew. We already knew

what we were talking about, so that’s why I questioned it in the first place. And

the teacher did not know how to answer or to question me back, and a lot of the

kids I was talking to, they didn’t have any idea what I was talking about. When I

told them about the Black person that I knew, they looked at me and told me that

none of that happened. I was like, “No. This did happen, and I have the book to

prove it.” The book that my mom was talking about [inaudible 1:48:50]. I went to

the kids and they thought I was crazy because I would tell things that happened,

and they would say, “No, it didn’t. No, that’s not right. We didn’t get taught this in

school.” And a lot of them didn’t know what African American history was. And

we’re saying that we need to teach the teachers, but we need to teach the kids,

too, at home. If they don’t know when they come to school, they have no idea.

We have to teach them at home.

D: Yes, anybody on the panel? And then we’re going to that lady in the white. Hi,

would you give us your name please?

Audience 4: Hi my name is Malia Mojia. And I just wanted to ask the panel what your

ideal vision for this is? Because I am a student at the university to be an

educator, and like Deidre was saying, it’s hard to—cultural competency, teaching


people how to teach this. I don’t see it working out. The teachers that are being

prepared now to teach really don’t have, or are not interested, in really

implementing something like this, Black history into their courses. And maybe

they don’t believe it. And so what is your ideal vision for the schools, for Black

children, and for including Black history in schools?

R: I think part of the vision has to be enforcement of the law. That the law was

written for a reason, and that part of the reason that people are not interested is

because they know they don’t have to be. They’re not being trained because

people have chosen not to obey the law. So if I were enrolled in education

curriculum at the University of Florida, or at Florida A & M, or wherever, and it

was being taught, I would be interested. Or if it were not being taught and I came

out of those universities and could not get a job in a county because when I

interviewed I told them I knew nothing about what they were talking about, I’d go

back to those universities and make sure that it was being taught. [Applause]

DHa: My many, many years of experience in public schools, I realized that each school

has many people that have strengths and many, many have weaknesses. And I

think if we’re going to do a real quality job of infusion or separate classes,

whatever we need, each school needs a lead teacher. The lead teacher has to

be someone—and I think they would have to be so highly motivated that it’s not

offered as an extra pay kind of thing, but somebody that really has the energy

and the expertise and so on to put themselves into it. As we often say, those of

us who are activists—and I’m here today because of my beginning activism in

the [19]60s and the Civil Rights Movement, and it’s never left me—but we need


people that such a earnest passion for doing this that they will either make

themselves available to go into another teacher’s classroom and take care of this

idea or demonstration. I think of it as something that if it’s done in a quality way,

it’s excellent. But if you have somebody that already had a bias and prejudice,

and they were teaching Black history, it could be a disaster. So, each school

needs a lead teacher.

D: It will depend on each principal and others there too, as to how and who is going

to teach it. Yes, Sir?

Audience 5: My name is Arkell Hammond. My question is, besides the teachers—I

mean, it got to be a higher-up, besides the teachers, that got to put this out there

and teach classes and teach school. Because the teachers have lost, too. And

how can we get through that loss? And my question is, also, is Black history—

how would we go about infusing the truth of history itself? So, you say that this

guy invented the light filament. You say it was a big thing, like, a commercial just

went on about a light filament. And first thing that come on the commercial is

Thomas Edison. All right? So—and you said you know it’s not true. But how do

we change the people who already say that they got it set, and memorized that?

“This is the way it is.” Some people say Jesus Christ was Black. Some people

say, “I’m not going to change Jesus and put it out there. You know, Jesus up in

the church now is a Black Jesus, and we used to”—Michelangelo’s cousin and

whatever. So, where do we go from there?

D: All right. Panel? If none of you got a problem—


H-N: Well, I guess these two questions are related, because he’s asking questions

about how we can implement these things, or what are these things, or how we

can do that. And I think that, first of all, in both cases, both of you are teaching.

And even though she’s at the school, in Education, to be a teacher, she’s already

doing it, I happen to know. [Laughter] So you know how to do it. You, too,

Jocelyn, looking over here now. But we have many examples of people who are

doing just that. And I think we need to learn from those people who have already

been successful. Right here, we have a school called Caring and Sharing. I don’t

know how many of you have been there to volunteer? [Applause] Yeah. There

are examples right here in Alachua County. There are examples of teachers,

here in Alachua County, quite frankly, who are doing an excellent job. But it is a

challenge, because those being trained, if you look to the certain institutions

where they’re being trained—especially if you are in graduate school, and

sometimes you may be the only person in certain classes that have this certain

worldview—it can be very, very lonely. [Laughter] And so, it becomes very

important for you to remain connected to the community, connected to those

scholars and those places where people can take you to another level. Because

there are people all over the country who have thought deeply about this, and

written about this. And when they were in school, they were the only ones, okay?

[Laughter] At that time. And so—but you never give up. The other thing is,

sometimes the people who are the most successful are the ones who have not

even had the degrees. When you look at examples—we’ve talked about this in

our meetings—certain places that—California. Some of you have heard of the


Marcus Garvey school in California, where you have people who—most of them

knew our children are suffering. They’re having issues, and this is something—

not just in history, right? Because it is connected to this trauma, this community

trauma that’s going on. And so they said, “We have to prepare ourselves, as

parents and community people. So, what happened? You had people from the

community who didn’t have degrees, learn, taught themselves Physics. Taught

the Physics to the students, who were in elementary school. Taught them

algebra, taught them Trigonometry. And then they went and competed in

contests. Math contests. Which is something that they used to do at Lincoln also,

with students at what? Private schools. And would beat them! Yeah. I’m not up

on what’s happening there this year, last year. But these are things that were

happening. So, it was doing somebody who said, “This has to happen,

regardless of whether I have the money, regardless of whether this person is

writing the book, or—this is my goal. And didn’t have the degree. But what did

they do? They were able to raise achievement in the children in spite of that. And

so, I think you have to tell those stories and learn, as Deidre said, what they were

doing. Learn from the people who succeeded. And to properly translate that into

what we have to do today, as far as the drama—if it was the terminology again,

what—

D: Cultural comprehensive.

H-N: Cultural, cultural, social, emotional. Okay. That is our reality in the United States

of America, and the world. We’re all going through that constantly. But at the end

of the day, if the information has to be taught, it has to be taught. Nobody—after


9/11, they immediately said, “We’re going to take a day. And we want all the

children to wear” what? Red, white and blue. You all may not remember, I had

children in school. There was no question that this was something important. We

want to unite the country behind what happened here. They had special days,

they had classes, they had speakers to focus everybody’s attention to that. So

sometimes we know and we want to do it, we do it. The question is, do we have

the will to do it in all of these areas? When we’re talking about demonizing

people in some other country that we are going to war with, they have no

problem, they’re not talking about emotional trauma despite the type of child who

may be in the class, who may be in there wearing some a hijab or something.

And everyone is going around disrespecting brown people. But then the minute

you start saying, “Well now we have to start talking about Africa, we have to start

talking about enslavement,” it’s like, “Oh, well, they’re beating up on me.”

Nobody’s beating up on— that’s history. That’s a part of it. So I think that—I’m

not dismissing that, because it can be very painful, and you’re absolutely right.

But I think that we will handle that the way we’ve also handled some of these

other issues that we’ve always addressed. But I think that we don’t say—we’re

not saying don’t address that, by any means, but that’s from personal experience

I know that that’s usually the rhetoric. “Oh, we don’t want to go there,” or “We

don’t want to raise that,” and I’m thinking, “Well, raise what?” You know, “What

are you talking about? Raise what?”

Audience 3: I’m saying the opposite, I’m saying we do want to go there. Part of going

there, to really go there, means that you have to address the emotions that come


up. Because emotions are what drive learning. It’s really emotions that drive

attention, and drive authentic learning. So if those emotions aren’t addressed in a

classroom and with teachers, then it’s not really going to be an authentic learning

environment; memorize the names, and memorize the dates, but not really

causing change in our collective consciousness.

M: Okay, while she’s checking for more questions.

D: We’re going to have to cut this out in about another ten minutes, really.

M: For an African American child who had always been taught that slavery is

something that brings them down, the only one who is actually being emotional is

most of the time the teacher. I’m not trying to be rude to teachers, because I’m

one also. But many times it is a challenging position to a teacher because they’re

at the point where how do we deal with this child, because this child is telling us

information we’re not sure about dealing. Number one, the child is just asking a

question. Pick the offense and the defense out of it, you have just a child asking

a question. When you put that as that’s a child as a person, not an emotion or not

challenging you about Africa or slavery, when you take that emotion out of it, a lot

of things stop right there. I’ve seen that in my classroom and I’ve seen that out of

the classroom. Pick the emotion sometimes out, and when you slowly introduce it

back in, you have a different atmosphere in the classroom. But that’s where the

problems come in, we’re so charged, we’re so ready for attack, that we forget

everything else. Think about that child that’s standing in front of you or those

children that are in your class, they just people like you who are going through a

history that maybe they [inaudible 02:02:53] or may not. It’s a question. Answer it


past that. Then you introduce other things in it. When you do that, you take all of

the pretense, you take the anger, you take the jealousy, and sometimes your

own preconceptions that you bring in about that child, and about the history. And

when you take that away, a lot of things go away. Again, it’s emotions—we all

are emotional people; Black, White, or whatever your color is. We are emotional

people, and we’re going to be emotional about our history. It is our history, it is a

part of us. However, asking a question. It takes away a lot when you take that

away and just put it as that.

Audience 4: I would argue that emotions are the main obstacle to teaching African and

African American history.

M: Yes, it is.

Audience 4: I think it’s emotions that are standing in the way. So unless we’re able to

explicit, we can’t move forward. So for a White teacher that’s teaching African

American history, they need to look at, “What’s coming up for me. Oh, I’m feeling

feelings of guilt, why is that?” Processing those emotions on their own or with

their colleagues, and also just emotions in having a sense of what emotions will

come up. I think it’s really important we need to address that we really want to

use this.

D: Okay. Let’s have one more comment. We have people who are leaving, it is 4:15,

and we want to get you out of here as close to the time.

Audience 6: I just wanted to share—I brought this one in about like for instance how we

know we’re encouraged to remember the Holocaust, but for some reason this

should be buried. I guess kind of what you were saying because that happened


over there and they could blame the people over there, and I think because it’s

such an ugly thing that took place they want to keep it covered. Now I worked in

a middle school in the country, a high school out in the country, it’s sad. We’re

talking about history, we can’t even discuss the elections. A high school, and

they can’t even discuss the elections in 2008 and 2012 because all hell is about

to break loose. It couldn’t even be discussed. I mean how retarded! Another

thing, back when I used to do Black History Month programs at that particular

school, every Black History program, a third of the Caucasian children’s parents

would come and yank them out of school. It’s really sad because these programs

were excellent; Patricia did one. In fact, the very last one that I did. It was Sherry

DuPree speaking about this topic. They were literally yanked off the stage, I was

made to have this little ten minute assembly. It was ridiculous! Because that

principal was under such pressure that she was worried about what was going to

happen to her, that she couldn’t even relax for us to have that program. I’m telling

you they yanked Sherry and Ms. Ludwig off that stage. And at that point I gave

up, I said, “Not me again. I’ve had it.” I was so embarrassed. So I’m just saying

you have parents teaching this hate, and the children are coming with the hate.

So I’m just going to say, good luck!

[Applause]

W: I think we have covered several areas. We’re going to skip down to the next step.

Did you have a comment? We’re moving down to the next step, and then—we

could do an intermission, we’ve done the feedback questions and testimony

pretty much already. We want to thank you so much for your input and a different


perspective. Also Ray, I’m very impressed with what you have come forth, and

the point of it is, we do have to have someone writing for us and changing things

for us. Because the person with the pen controls, and as long as we know that,

we can’t be but we should be. I’m trying to close with a few remarks here. I have

one suggestion for the community: we need to start a community blog. Most of us

are online, and since we are online, most of us we can express our feelings

there, and we can continue our conversations through the blog. The blog can be

open so other people can read it of course, and we can get maybe some

discussion in the right places. Because going out to some of these schools it’s

not going to happen, because not only the principal, you’ve got to look at the

superintendent that’s above him because he’s controlling. He controls. And from

the superintendent down to your principals and supervisors and so forth. So we

got to go up the ladder, we’ve got to have some writers, and like I said, if we do a

blog, all of us can expresses ourselves, and bring this course back. Carol, yes,

she’s on our board. Would you pass the microphone to her, because her voice is

soft. Now, she is a Civil Rights activist, we all know.

Audience: Yea Carol! [Applause]

Carol Thomas: Listen, this is such an incredible afternoon. And I want to thank the

panel, you have been so informative. We can’t let this stop here. I think lots of

very important [inaudible 2:08:37]. I thank you for what you have done and

become a part of this process. We need to have an evaluation of this and decide

where we’re going from here, because it’s an issue of people power, and we’ve

got the power. The superintendent, he is an employee of ours. [Applause] And


school boards is employed or voted in by us; they are our public servants. And

we need them to advocate for us. I don’t know, I can’t remember if there’s going

to be an evaluation meeting tomorrow night at the Wilhelmina Johnson Center or

if it’s the next week. It’s next week, the third of November, at the Wilhelmina

Johnson Center at 6:00 PM. I urge all of you, because all we need is all of us to

make changes that will support what we get to do in the future. I mean, this issue

is as important to White people in a diverse world. We need to understand our

own place. It’s not where we are now, and where we think [inaudible 2:09:58].

We need to hold it together, and it’s going to take all of us to do that. And some

humility and relearning things about White people’s history to tell us something

else.

D: Thank you so much, Carol. They don’t know about making the third meeting.

Well I wanted to go through supporters, we’ve had several supporters and they

are listed on the program: Wild Iris Books, Civic Media Center, the Porters Youth

Center, our Yoga Dance, Cultural Arts Coalition, the Southern Legal Council,

Three Rivers Legal Association, African American Histories, African American

Studies at UF, Alachua County Labor Coalition, Unitarian Social Justice

Committee, the Samuel Proctor Oral History Project, and also I’m going to add

UNESCO-TST even though we didn’t get it on here, and there are probably

others. We want to thank you for taking the opportunity to share and be a part of

what we are doing at this time. I am going to ask Kali to come and close us,

because he is a good friend who’s worked so hard to get all of this done.


B: Thank you, but I want you to reserve the applause for later and for yourselves.

What we need now is action. The new superintendent has expressed support,

but he cannot turn this system around all by himself. This is down to individual

action. It comes together collectively, but if you all don’t act, it’s not going to

happen. We need for you, the community, to get into that history material, to

study it, learn it, share it, and take it back to the school board. There’s a school

board meeting either this Tuesday evening or the following Tuesday evening, I’ve

forgotten the date. There’s a citizen comment time. This citizen comment time is

going to be filled up with the demands for what we want, not just on this issue but

all the time. But we need for that superintendent to be supported by the

community in implementing this. Okay? This needs to be promoting in the

communities and the schools. We need to have people talking about Imhotep as

much as Oprah in the supermarket line. Some of you are going, “Who’s

Imhotep?” [Laughter] We need for you to take the action. So it’s down to—I hope

you all leave this room thinking, “What can I do?” And realizing that if you don’t

do something, it’s not going to happen. It’s you. So please try to study these

materials. One book that is not over there is Africa, Mother of Western

Civilization by Yosef Jochannan. There is phenomenal material in this library, the

school system had a curriculum for African and African American studies in 1989.

In the [19]89-[19]90 school year it was brought here and sat and collected dust.

So it’s not a lack of materials, it’s a lack of political will. It’s the community that

will change that. If your superintendent, who is in support, comes back, sees the

school board facing constant demands on that microphone in the citizen


comment. You get three minutes to talk about anything you want to, as long as

you don’t curse or throw chairs. So you can go there and tell the school board

what we need, what we want. The school board hears it and comes in agreement

with the superintendent. The people in the community will learn it and get to look

at what the children are being taught and reflect back to the school on that.

That’s the circle that we need y’all to complete.

D: Thank you, I’d like to have Dr. Simmons to come forward because she just came

back. Please come forward. Because she’s our representative now to the state of

Florida for the African American History Taskforce. She’s been doing a

magnificent job. I was talking to the representative down in Tampa the other day

and he told me, “Oh I know her.” I said, “Yes you do.” And so I’d love for her to

have a couple of words just to let us know who she is and what she represents,

because she represents Alachua County.

Gwendolyn Zohorah Simmons: Greetings to everyone and thank you. I think that you

have been richly blessed with information, and the now is action. Because only

we can make—and let’s be clear about it—make this happen. And we have to be

involved beyond coming to one meeting. Now, we didn’t get to do some of the

action things that we had planned, so that suggests to me that we going to have

to have a follow up to this meeting, where all of you will come back and bring

additional people, particularly parents who have children in the schools. Because

we wanted to set up a few things at this meeting, and one of them was to get

people to sign up to go to the school board meetings as a group so that you

could see what happens there, begin to feel comfortable and voicing your


opinions. I know that was one thing that we had planned. The other thing, and

maybe that’s happening, was for us to have a book club where we would get

together and read and discuss some of the important books that are written today

about African American history and culture. So these are some of the action

things that we wanted to do. I don’t know if we actually announced that earlier.

D: We have not announced it.

Gwendolyn Zohorah Simmons: Okay. So anyway, we don’t want to hold you beyond

the time, but I am very encouraged by the turnout, and as you have heard from

Carol Thomas—whose idea this was to form this taskforce. So Carol, I’m so glad

you did that, obviously because the time is right. We want you to please come to

our meeting at the Wilhelmina Johnson Center, 6:00 PM on November 3rd is it,

where we will continue with our plans of action. Thank you, thank you for coming.

P-N: An announcement that was passed down from the school board: the

superintendent will have a meeting Tuesday, September 28th, this coming

Tuesday, at 5:00 PM, Westside Park. There will be a gathering there regarding

standardized tests and open Home Ec Rooms, and a night for the community. All

right? October—I’m sorry, October 28th. Okay. Then on Wednesday at 6:00 PM

at Buchholz they’ll show a movie, Rise to the Mark, it’s been shown in different

places. So if you can go there, please do. One other thing as she stands up;

yesterday, all day yesterday at the University of Florida there was a UNESCO-

TST conference, a very powerful conference that was coordinated by Sherry

Dupree. It was excellent. There were people from Lake City, people from all


around. They had tours, they had lunch, they had sessions, and then here she is

today. So, can we give her a hand and mention too. [Applause].

D: She was a part of it yesterday, and I see Maxine, and maybe there’s two other

people here that supported us so we really appreciate it. We thank you for your

time and goodnight. Bye.

[End of recording]

Transcribed by: Amelia D’costa, Ryan Morini, Justin Dunnavant, Patrick Daglaris

Audit-edited by: Ryan Morini, August 7, 2018

Final edit by: Ryan Morini, February 25, 2019

Documents

(352) 392 AAHP 359 ...ufdcimages.uflib.ufl.edu/AA/00/06/65/59/00001/AAHP 359 Town Me… · and every one of you after the town hall meeting. And I just want to point out to you that