ELEMENTS B POWER POINT SLIDES Class #9 Wednesday, September 9, 2015 (#9 = 9/9)

ELEMENTS B POWER POINT SLIDES

Class #9 Wednesday, September 9, 2015

(#9 = 9/9)

MUSIC: CLAUDE DEBUSSY Afternoon of a Faun (1894);

Nocturnes (1900); The Sea (1905); Images D’Orchestre (1905-12)Boston Symphony Orchestra

conductOR: CHARLES MUNCH (1956-62)

Lunch TodayMeet on Bricks @ 11:55amAjizian * Burch, Jul. * Henry

Kloosterboer * Lederman Monteiro * Pimentel

Lunch TomorrowMeet on Bricks @ 12:25am

Brams * Celerin * Fogleman Johnson * Phillips Shulman * Valencia

Liesner DQ1.18: Radium“Prevailing rule” (Three Formulations): •(1) substantiallysubstantially permanently deprive [animal] of liberty •(2) [have the animal] so in their power that escape improbableimprobable, if not impossible•(3) [bring the animal] under control so that actual possession practicallypractically inevitable

All three formulations contain an imprecise word meaning something like “almost

completely.”

Liesner DQ1.18 (b): Radium

What policies support the rule? What policies suggest that it has

problems?

As compared to what?

Liesner DQ1.18 (b): Radium

COMPARE POSSIBLE RULES1.Actual Possession Likely2.Actual Possession Practically Inevitable3.Actual Possession Inevitable

Policies Supporting Choice … of #2 v. #3?

Liesner DQ1.18 (b): Radium

COMPARE POSSIBLE RULES1.Actual Possession Likely2.Actual Possession Practically Inevitable3.Actual Possession Inevitable

Policies Supporting Choice of #2 v. #3?•#3 = Too difficult to meet standard– Discourages hunters fewer kills– Doesn’t reward most-of the-way labor– Impossible-to-meet standard may yield disrespect for

law, self-help; violence (Pijls; Weissman)

Liesner DQ1.18 (b): Radium

COMPARE POSSIBLE RULES1.Actual Possession Likely2.Actual Possession Practically Inevitable3.Actual Possession Inevitable

Policies Supporting Choice … of #2 v. #1?

Liesner DQ1.18 (b): Radium

COMPARE POSSIBLE RULES1.Actual Possession Likely2.Actual Possession Practically Inevitable3.Actual Possession Inevitable

Policies Supporting Choice of #2 v. #1?•#1 = Too uncertain in application– Yields too many disputes/lawsuits (v. higher claim

threshold for #2)–May reward ineffective/insufficient labor

Liesner DQ1.18 (a): Radium

“Prevailing rule” (Three Formulations): •(1) substantially permanently deprive [animal] of liberty (SPDL)•(2) [have the animal] so in their power that escape improbable, if not impossible•(3) [bring the animal] under control so that actual possession practically inevitable

MEANING OF LANGUAGE? (from last time)

Liesner DQ1.18 (a): Radium

Property Rights in Animal IF:•substantially permanently deprived [animal] of his liberty

MEANING OF LANGUAGE Significance of Two Separate Adverbs?

Liesner DQ1.18(c): Radium Apply to Pierson Facts:

Property Rights if … •substantially permanently deprived [animal] of [its] liberty

Liesner DQ1.18(a): Radium Property Rights in Animal if:

•so in their power that escape was highly improbable, if not impossible •under the control of a person so that actual possession is practically inevitable

MEANING OF LANGUAGEDifference betw. underlined phrases?

Liesner DQ1.18 (a): Radium

Property Rights in Animal if:•so in their power that escape was highly improbable, if not impossible •under the control of a person so that actual possession is practically inevitable

MEANING OF LANGUAGE?Difference betw. underlined phrases?

Liesner DQ1.18(c): Radium Apply to Pierson Facts:

Property Rights if … •under the control of a person so that actual possession is practically inevitable •so in their power that escape was highly improbable, if not impossible

We’ll leave for you & DF Sessions

Applying Legal Rule/TestApplying Legal Rule/Test1. Look for best arguments for each party– Be cognizant of structure of test– Use care with language– Utilize definitions

2. If significant doctrinal arguments for both parties, try to resolve with: – Comparisons to facts of cases– Other language from cases– Policy arguments (incl. purpose of rule)

Closing Up Liesner : Lawyering Points

• Standards of Review: Relevant Legal Standard Can Be Different for – Court Making Initial Decision v.– Appellate Court Reviewing that Decision

• Working with a Record: – What Record Says Explicitly v.– Reasonable/Plausible Inferences from the Record (“in the light

most favorable to …”)

Qs on Qs on Liesner ?Liesner ?(Appellate Case or Trial Record)(Appellate Case or Trial Record)

LOGISTICS: CLASS #9

Group Assignment #1•Specific Instructions Posted on Course Page– Instructions for all Group Assignments at IM23– Groups of three or four students (3-3-3 or 4-2-4)– One person acts as coordinator

•I’ll explain more & take Qs during class Fri•Can start on right away (especially logistics)•Due Mon Sept 21 @ 10 pm •Comments & Best Student Answers from Parallel Shack Exercise Posted on Course Page

LOGISTICS: CLASS #9• Materials for Last Part of Unit One on Course Page– Including Updates to Syllabus & Assignment Sheets– We’ll Introduce Issue of Escape Next Wednesday:– 1st Two Cases (Manning & Mullett) • Quizzes Posted• We’ll Start Manning Next Friday• Oxygen: Written Mullett Brief due Sat Sep 19.

• No Office Hours Tomorrow• DF Sessions From Now Till Break: Friday &

Following Monday Will Be Same Coverage

ALL: EXERCISE FOR FRIDAY

Which of These Things Is Not Like the Others (and Why)?

LION FISH

BULL FOX

STATE v. SHAW DQ1.27: KryptonFriday:

Should the result in Shaw be the same if the fishermen used a sunken boat sunken boat instead

of a net to trap the fish?

Assume the boat retains the same percentage of fish that enter it as the net in Shaw.

(E.g., <4% of fish that enter escape both nets & boat)

STATE v. SHAW DQ1.27: Krypton

NOTE: If Q = “Should the result be the same if we change one fact?”

Really asking: “Why might result be different if we change the fact?”

So: Why might it make a difference that people use a sunken boat rather than a net to

catch fish (if both equally effective)?

Musical InterludeShaw-1902 1908 1914-Liesner

The Most Performed Waltz in American Popular

Music

STATE v. SHAW Brieffeaturing featuring

Wallpaper with Fish!

++Uranium

(Often Used for Goin’ Fission)(Often Used for Goin’ Fission)

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

STATEMENT OF THE CASE?CRIMINAL CASE

•Government Government always brings the suit, so can say:• “State (or U.S.) charged X with [name of crime].”

-OR-• “Criminal action against X for [name of crime].”

•Relief Requested Relief Requested always is incarcerationincarceration or finesfines; can leave unstated.

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

STATEMENT OF THE CASE?• “State charged [names?], • [relevant description?],• with [name of crime?].

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

STATEMENT OF THE CASE?• “State charged o Shaw, Thomas and another (or)o Three defendants including Shaw and

Thomaso Shaw to tie to name of caseo Thomas because his trial is the one that is

appealed

• [relevant description?],• with [name of crime?].

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

STATEMENT OF THE CASE?•“State charged Shaw, Thomas and another, who removed fish from nets belonging to others …

• Can’t say “stole” or that fish “belonged to others” b/c that’s what’s at issue

• with [name of crime?].

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

STATEMENT OF THE CASE?•“State charged Shaw, Thomas and another, who removed fish from nets belonging to others with grand larceny.

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

PROCEDURAL POSTURE?Note that indictment is method by

which State charged Ds, so don’t need here (already implicit in Statement of

Case)

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

PROCEDURAL POSTURE?•Thomas was tried separately. •At the close of the state’s evidence, the trial court directed a verdict for Thomas. •The state excepted [appealed].

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

We’ll Return to FACTS After ISSUE

ISSUE: PROCEDURAL PART?

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

ISSUE: PROCEDURAL PART?Did the trial court err in directing a

verdict for the defendant …

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

ISSUE: SUBSTANTIVE PART?•To prove “grand larceny” state must show that defendants [intentionally] took property belonging to other people.•Directed verdict means state’s evidence was insufficient to show the crime. •Why did Trial Court think state’s evidence was insufficient here?

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

ISSUE: SUBSTANTIVE PART?•To prove “grand larceny” state must show that defendants took property belonging to other people.•Trial Court held fish at issue were not property of net-owners because nets do not create property rights when some fish can escape from nets. (“Perfect Net Rule”)•What does state say is wrong with Trial Court’s position?

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

ISSUE: SUBSTANTIVE PART?•Trial Court held fish at issue were not property of net-owners because nets do not create property rights when some fish can escape from nets (“Perfect Net Rule”)•State says net need not be perfect to create property rights in net-owners.

STATE v. SHAW Brief: Uranium

ISSUE: Did the trial court err in directing a verdict for the defendant …[on the grounds that defendant did not commit grand larceny] …because net-owners do not have property rights in fish found in their nets where some fish can escape from the nets?

STATE v. SHAWDiscussions of Shaw: Focus On

“Perfect Net Rule” Used by Trial Court•Do our other cases support that rule?•Policy arguments for and against that rule.•When Ohio Supreme Court rejects that rule, what does it leave in its place?

FIRST: BACK TO THE FACTS

STATE v. SHAW: FACTSSignificance of Indictment

•Issued by Grand Jury after viewing evidence presented by Prosecution (no evidence presented by defense).•Particular charges included if Grand Jury believes it saw evidence sufficient to support going forward with them.

STATE v. SHAW: FACTSSignificance of Indictment

•Phrase “with force and arms” in indictment:• Boilerplate language traditionally used in

conjunction with anyany criminal charge • Does not mean that evidence showed guns

were actually used in this case.

STATE v. SHAW: FACTSSignificance of Indictment

•Once trial begins, trial court only looks at evidence actually presented by parties. • Claims in indictment then effectively become

irrelevant for most purposes• Same thing happens to complaint in a civil case unless

(as in Pierson) claim on appeal is that complaint should have been dismissed before trial.

STATE v. SHAW: FACTSOhio S.Ct. Treats State’s Evidence as

“Facts” for Purposes of Appeal•Directed Verdict in favor of defendant means that Trial Court believed that, even looking at all the evidence “in the light most favorable” to the State, State cannot win.

STATE v. SHAW: FACTSOhio S.Ct. Treats State’s Evidence as “Facts”

•Directed Verdict = even looking at all the evidence “in the light most favorable” to the State, State cannot win.•To review Directed Verdict, appellate court must:• Treat all of state’s evidence as true• Make all reasonable inferences from the evidence in

favor of the State

STATE v. SHAW: FACTSOhio S.Ct. Treats State’s Evidence as “Facts”•Common to treat information from a particular source as true for purposes of appeal•E.g., allegations in declaration in Pierson

STATE v. SHAW: FACTS

NOW TO WHITE BOARD FOR “FACTS” FOR PURPOSES OF BRIEF

STATE v. SHAW SIGNIFICANT FACTS

(in chronological order)• Third parties put nets in public waters to catch fish.• Some fish that got into the nets could escape, but

“under ordinary circumstances, few, if any, fish escape.” (p.29)• Thomas and others (Ds) removed fish from the

nets.