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}Chennai Freethinkers{2012 Annual Report
A compilation of reports of the monthly meets November 3, 2012
email: chennaifreethinkers@groups.facebook.com 1
}2{
mailto:chennaifreethinkers@groups.facebook.commailto:chennaifreethinkers@groups.facebook.com7/31/2019 Chennai Freethinkers Annual Report 2012
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Chennai Freethinkers is the regional chapter of Nirmukta, along with 12 other regional groups in
various cities across India. Our aim is to provide a platform for freethinkers who value Science,
Reason and Secular Humanism, to voice their opinions and share their experience in a safe and
cohesive environment free from religious judgements, meanwhile trying to promote these values
in public. We have been meeting once a month for the past two years. At the end of every year
we put out an annual report of all our meets. This is the second annual report of
Chennai Freethinkers.
We are proud to say that Nirmukta Chennai Freethinkers has been growing steadily for the past
year and has brought together people from very diverse backgrounds. We have been conducting
regular meets throughout the year and have organised guest lectures and film screenings. Every
meet we see new members joining us and becoming regulars. Many have come forward to
volunteer for future events and other on-ground activities. Meanwhile our online presence in
Facebook has been growing too. With nearly 700 members, Chennai Freethinkers has the
largest membership count among Nirmuktas regional freethought groups.
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Dedicated to
Ajita KamalF o u n d e r , N i r m u k t a .
1 9 7 8 - 2 0 1 1
N o n e o f t h i s w o u l d h a v e b e e n p o s s i b l e w i t h o u t y o u .
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TABLE OF CONTENTS
First Anniversary Meet! 529th January 2012 5- by Bala Bhaskar! 5
13th Meet! 1111th March 2012 11- by Bala Bhaskar! 11
14th Meet! 1415th April 2012 14- by Bala Bhaskar! 14
15th Meet! 2329th May 2012 23- by Geetha TG! 23
16th Meet! 2717th June 2012 27- by Geetha TG! 27
18th Meet! 3112th August 2012 31- by Geetha TG! 31
19th Meet! 3630th September 2012 36
The Rearview Mirror! 382013! 39
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First
AnniversaryMeet29th January 2012
- by Bala Bhaskar
The anniversary meet of Chennai Freethinkers
took place on 29th January 2012 at a conference
hall in Nungambakkam. Twelve people
attended the meet including four new members.
We started with introduction of the newmembers.Arun Wayne is a 3D modeler working for a
visual effects studio in chennai.
Parthiban is an inhalation expert doing hisresearch in the US.
Krishnan is a professional at an IT firm inchennai.
The discussion on the topic of registeringNirmukta was deferred till the next meet as the
appropriate person (Balasubramanian) taking
the initiative could not make it to the meet.
Bala initiated the discussion about planning
an event for the National Science Day on Feb
28th. He explained that the idea sprang froman audio conference with Ajita and others
about initiating and celebrating secular
festivals that everyone can participate in. Theplan is to have a talk on a science topic in the
morning and perhaps a panel discussion in the
afternoon. Krishnan pointed out that the talkdoesnt have to be anti-religious and should
have a positive tone to promote science.
Girish said that if the talk is going to be on
astronomy then the speaker might touch on
astrology and point to its weakness.Nikhilremarked that if people interpret an attack on
superstition as an attack on their religious
sentiments, we cannot be responsible for that.Bala explained that the tactic used by
Prof.Narendra Nayak during his
demonstrations has been well tested as it acts
as a great tool to get people interested as well
as make them think. Krishnan was of the
opinion that we should create more content
rich videos on topics like evolution for
children in villages. Parthiban remarked thatpeople in villages would be more willing to
learn than the educated middle class.
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Soorya wondered if we could give the audiencesomething to take home after the event. He said
he recently received a booklet from the Church
of Scientology and that the booklet was in fact
rather impressive.Anyone who reads it wouldfeel the urge to at least visit the church once.
He said we could have a DVD or a booklet on
science topics or recordings of previous events
which we can give to the audience to carry home
after the event.
The next topic taken up was to translate Ajitasarticles to Tamil. Bala said that there are nearly50 articles in Nirmukta by Ajita. He said either
the members can volunteer to translate or we
can find professional translators who would
charge approx Rs.4 per word. GeethaCharusivam pointed out that the problem with
professional translators is that the essence of the
article will be lost.Nikhil added that thetranslator must be able to relate to the article
he/she is translating. Krishnan suggested thatwe take up the help of tamil blogger group
who openly blast religion in their posts, or we
could contact writer Gnani who would be able to
help.Nikhil intervened and said we should becareful in choosing the translator as someone
who openly blasts religion may not be the
right choice. If someone reads the translatedarticle, finds out who the translator is, goes to
their blog and finds content that is
unacceptable, the reader might relate Nirmukta
with such opinions.We have to make sure the
translators affiliation does not hamper our
cause. The idea is not to slam somebody butto gently prod them into thinking.Whenthere is a sense of anger in the way you speak
or write, that severely influences the way it
comes across to people said Nikhil. He alsoadded that the translations should be easily
readable and not use flowery language. Balasaid that if the translation is faithful to the
original article, that would be more than
enough.
Krishnan and Madhavan volunteered to takeup the translation work. Bala reiterated thatthis is a group effort. He gave the example of a
passage from The Pale Blue Dot that was
translated into Tamil after numerous revisions
by many members. Bala wondered if we couldset a tentative deadline to finish the articles.He suggested about 8 months to complete
translation of all of the articles if many
members pitch in.Nikhil pointed out that weshould look for quality over quantity. Even ifmany members pitched in, if four or five of
them translate with high quality then they are
the ones who should be entrusted with the
job. Bhaskaran at this point wondered what isthe purpose of translating these articles. Since
most of us in the group are comfortable in
English he wondered if there is an audience
for such content in Tamil. Krishnan said yes.Nikhil noted that we should have a plan to
distribute the articles once translated as
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posting them on Nirmukta alone is not enough.Krishnan mentioned that there are magazines in
tamil like Pudhiya Thalaimurai and Uyirmai who
may be willing to publish them.
Translating Khan Academy to Tamil wasdiscussed next. Bala gave a short introduction
to what Khan academy is and said that he wished
to translate those lessons to Tamil. Parthibanargued that teaching in Tamil could spoil the
children as we should encourage them to learn
in English.Venkat noted how his classmateswho were educated in the Tamil medium inschool were struggling to cope up with the
college syllabus. Parthiban reiterated that Tamilas a language will not help much in the learning
process after school. He gave examples ofconcepts like entropy and thermodynamics for
which one needs to use English to describe.
The style of Khan Academy is a typical British
way of teaching and not a good way to teach
science and mathematics, he observed.Nikhilwondered that since most higher education is in
English, will we not be denying the children the
opportunity to learn in English if we persist of
teaching in Tamil? Bhaskaran added that heread an engineering book in Tamil and couldnt
get past the first page. Bala replied that he is not
going to translate the videos word for word from
English to Tamil. He said he could teach theTamil equivalent of the English word and
encourage the listener to learn the English
word.As for the teaching style, he said he is not
trying to come up with the best method
possible but simply giving an alternative
medium to school from which the kids can
learn anytime. Geetha mentioned that a lot ofyoungsters are still learning in Tamil till 12th.Bala wondered if it is right to deprive the
children of knowledge just because they dont
know a language.
Bala noted that... we cannot
force someone to read a bookor an article or something that
we think is the best use of their
time. The best we can do isinspire and encourage and the
person should take thedecision on their own interest.
Bhaskaran wondered if a child who hasnt had
much exposure to English would be able to
understand scientific concepts. Geetha saidthey certainly can and do. Speaking fromexperience, she said that children in tribal
schools are quite sharp and when you explain
scientific concepts, they immediately relate it
to their everyday lives. Bala said that thelessons should not just be uploaded to the
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internet as that would defeat the purpose of the
exercise. Parthiban noted that not many schoolshave computers. Bala suggested that we canpackage these lessons onto DVDs playable on
DVD players, and since TV and DVD
penetration seems much higher than internet
penetration, it has a better chance of getting
used.Krishnan said he had read the article on
privilege blindness in Nirmukta and noted that
people who are using the internet are very
privileged.Yet, he lamented, that people useinternet for wasteful purposes like discussing
cinema and cricket. He said we have to try andchange the behavior of such people who misuse
the internet. Bala intervened and said that theword misuse in inappropriate in this context,
and that it is not our job to lecture people on
what is the right thing to do with the internet.He said we cannot force someone to read a book
or an article or something that we think is the
best use of their time. The best we can do isinspire and encourage and the person should
take the decision on their own interest. He gavethe example of the recent artwork he did about
the Cosmic microwave background radiation in
TV static and how it got few of his friends
interested. He said that it is like a hook to get
people interested in science.
Nikhil gave the example of Arabian nights,
where they tell a story every night but leave out
crucial ending details in order to keep the
listeners interested for the next night. He saidwe could point people to abridged versions of
classics like Crime and Punishment. If theabridged version interests the reader then
they might be inspired to improve their
English in order to aspire to read the original.The essay on Liberty by J.S.Mill, on which he
wrote his last article, is a complicated essay,
said Nikhil, but he has tried to simplify it to
get the readers interested enough to read the
original. He mentioned a website called theGutenberg press which provides many of the
classic English literature for free. Bhaskaransuggested Sujatas Yen Yetharku Yeppadi
as a good tool to kindle scientific curiosity.
Nikhil recalled an incident where he was on atrain to Jodhpur and during a casual chat with
his co-passengers he revealed that he is an
immunologist. The passengers then askedhim questions, like what is the difference
between HIV and AIDS? He said people useHIV positive and AIDS interchangeably but
there is a vast difference between the two. Heobserved that incidents like these show that
people are generally curious. It is not likethey are living in their own boxes and not
worried about anything, he said, but just that
they dont know who to ask the questions.
Parthiban noted that people in rural areas are
much more receptive of new ideas than those
in urban areas.Nikhil gave a hypotheticalexample of how a catholic priest who did his
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degree in Bible studies and his dissertation of
why the canaanites probably deserved to die,
and has served in the church for say 30 years
would find it very difficult to assimilate back into
society if he suddenly realises there is no god.We watched Christopher Hitchens video on
Free Speech and a video from the Jaipur
Literature Festival before we wrapped up the
meet.
Nikhil gave a hypothetical
example of how a catholic priest
who did his degree in Bible
studies and his dissertation on
why the canaanites probably
deserved to die, and has served
in the church for say 30 years
would find it very difficult to
assimilate back into society if he
suddenly realises there is no
god.
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13th Meet11th March 2012
- by Bala Bhaskar
This is a gist of our 13th meet. Sorry for the brief
report. Lost my notes and had to recollect a lot
from memory. Please leave a comment if there is
a mistake or if I had misquoted anyone. Thanks.
- The 13th Chennai Freethinkers Meet washeld on 11th March 22, 2012 at a conference hall
in Nungambakkam.
- We had three newcomers this meet.Dhyanesh, and Periyaswamy, both friends of
Venkat, who is a regular, are students of
Sociology. Dhyanesh aims to be in civil serviceand is influenced by thoughts of Periyar.Periyaswamy had a religious upbringing. Raju,the third newcomer, is a friend of
Balasubramaniam (Balu) and is doing his PHD
in history.
- The topic of registering Nirmukta wasdiscussed. Balu suggested we register as anassociation. Imran, who did most of the
paperwork for the registration process couldnt
be present.- We discussed about conveying sciencetopics in an easily understandable way to people
who are not particularly interested in science.Karthik remarked that topics like evolution
and big bang can sound complicated to people
not really interested in science, and that if
these concepts can be explained in a simple
manner, it would be better.
- Balu suggested that along with sciencepeople need to know the ways to think using
reason and logic and to arrive at conclusions
accordingly.
- Karthik mentioned that people heknows believe the bible literally and some
others waste their time and effort in
superstitions like shaving the head in
Tirupathi. The explanation given is thatwhatever they wish for, comes true when they
go to Tirupathi.
- Balu pointed out that this was wishfulthinking and that if you take the statistics, the
number of times their wishes came true would
be no better than because of random chance,
but they only remember the times the wishes
came true.
- Karthik said one of his neighbors wouldpoint out to some verses in the bible to show
how morally uplifting it is. Ganesh retortedsaying there are passages in Luke and Mathew
that are morally repugnant.- Ganesh gave 4 reasons why people
believe in god, Explanation, Exaltation,
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Consolation and Inspiration and said that these
can be attained without presupposing the
existence of god.
-
Karthik mentioned that even welleducated people fall for superstition. Ganeshresponded that education doesnt automatically
provide one with critical thinking abilities.
- Dhyanesh was worried if we wereimposing our beliefs on others, and noted that
everyone has a right to their beliefs, and
wondered why we needed to convert people.
- He argued that we should target prejudiceprevalent in the society rather than attacking
religious beliefs themselves.
- Balu responded that Science is not abelief system but just a systematic way of finding
the truth.- Dhyanesh reiterated that we shouldntimpose our beliefs on others.
- Balu responded with a question. Imaginethere is a sick man.And the people around himare doing poojas to alleviate his illness. If I go inthere and say stop the Pujas and take the man to
a hospital, will I be imposing my belief on them?Dhyanesh said No.
- However, Dhyanesh argued that religionstill has a social importance. For instance if we
attach religious importance to a tree, a person
might be unwilling it cut it down.
Imagine there is a sick man.And the people around him
are doing poojas to alleviate
his illness.If I go in there andsay stop the Poojas and take
the man to a hospital, will I be
imposing my belief on them?
- Bala responded that we owe the persona better reason to not cut the tree. Ganesh
pointed out that if we go by the Global peace
index, most of the top countries with low
crime rate and high social cohesion are
atheistic countries.
- Dhyanesh said that he is interested inthe topic of alternative medicine. Hementioned a person called Healer Bhaskar
who suggests simple behavioral changes for
people with chronic diseases like diabetes.Dhyanesh said that he has witnessed a
persons diabetic level plunge using such
techniques and that the doctors were not able
to give an explanation.
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- Ganesh responded that this is an anecdoteand cannot be considered proper evidence.
- Dhyanesh suggested that we should tryand eradicate the bad things within each religionand try to assimilate what is good among all the
religions.
- Balu pointed out that this is what thetheosophical society tried to do and it ended up
becoming sort of a cult.
- Bala explained that there is a connectionbetween people going to Tirupathi and a babaexploiting gullible people through their
superstitious beliefs, and it is the willingness of
people to believe in something without
evidence, and its prevalence within our culture.
- Ganesh noted that we should create analternative with our culture for people who do
not wish to identify with any faith, and that weshould celebrate science.
- Dhyanesh argued that science itself is notfool proof. He pointed out how Pluto wasconsidered a planet by science for so long and
then suddenly they revoked its planetary status.- Bala responded that this is an example ofthe self-correcting mechanism within science.
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14th Meet15th April 2012
- by Bala Bhaskar
The Chennai Freethinkers 14th meet took place
on 15th April 2012 at a conference hall in
Nungambakkam.Eleven of us were present forthe meeting, including a first timer Salpetta
Saamiyaar.Salpetta, who has been active on Facebook in
the Chennai Freethinkers group, works in
Dubai and is visiting Chennai on vacation. Hefound out about Nirmukta through Ajitas post
on PZ Myers blog. Sadly, the first post that heread in Nirmukta was that of Ajitas demise.Salpetta grew up in a Christian background.His father was an elder in a local church. He waseducated at the seventh day Adventist school.
As part of school routine, he had to preach every
Saturday. Through this, he learnt a lot about theBible. He explored the similarities between theKoran and the Bible and gradually renounced
his religion. Letting go of Christianity was notmuch of a shock and he says his family too
knows that he is not very religious.Bala suggested that Salpetta could network with
other members of Nirmukta who are in the
middle east, and possibly have a middle east
freethought group.
Madhavan was worried about the low turnoutand wondered how we could make the group
popular. Salpetta suggested that we shouldtarget schools. Bala noted that it will bedifficult to formally approach a school before
being properly registered. He added that italso depends on the school principal.
(Salpetta Saamiyaar)
explored the similarities
between the Koran and the
Bible and gradually
renounced his religion.
Balaji and Geetha lamented how they were
scared of breaking lab equipment during
school days, and how this kept them from
developing curiosity. Balaji said, duringChemistry lab exams, the examiner would
even give away the answer. Ganesh, who didhis schooling in Mumbai, said that his schoolwas a bit better and they guided the students
to carry out experiments. Geetha said that sheis learning more now that she did during
school days.
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Ganesh mentioned that his friend is appearing
on TV9 for a discussion with an astrologer.Balaji noted that an astrologer predicted that he
has a kandam (threat to his life) before the age
of 35. Ganesh pointed out that vaguepredictions are rarely wrong, and specific
predictions are rarely right.Venkat said thatpeople used to tell him that what astrologers
predict might come true, and that the exact
opposite might also come true. Between these
two possibilities, noted Bala, every occurrence
can be covered. He also noted how people whodefend astrology bring up an analogy with
doctors, saying that if a doctor prescribes wrong
medicine, it is not the fault of the entire medical
profession. Similarly if an astrologerspredictions dont come true, it is not the fault of
astrology. Ganesh pointed out that unlikeastrology, medical science follows the scientific
method, makes specific testable claims and is
independently verifiable.
Geetha said that she is learning
more now than she did during
school days.
Geetha pointed to a video by Babu Gogineniwhere he debunks a ghost story step by step.She said the video has been subtitled to English
by Satish on the Nirmukta Forums. Bala noted
that Babu Gogineni is well experienced for TV
appearences, like Neil deGrasse Tyson.Ganesh mentioned that although it looks
casual and natural, Neil prepares extensively
before each show. Bala noted an episode
where someone asked Neil why his upcoming
Cosmos series is being aired on Fox network
and not on any Science channels, for which
Neil replied that, if you are already watching
the Science channel, then you are not my
target audience.
... vague predictions are rarely
wrong, and specific predictions
are rarely right.
Bala also lamented that such charismatic
personality who can popularize science is
missing in the Indian media landscape.People like Prof.Dayanandhan who gave a
lecture on Evolution during ThinkFest were
not as popular as wed like them to be.Geetha mentioned that we should have
another ThinkFest like program, maybe even
a training session by Prof.Nayak. Balarecalled a plan to conduct a 3 day festival in
Delhi on June 21st that Lalit mentioned in one
of the groups. Even within our group, eachmonth one of us can give a short talk on any
one topic. Bala volunteered to give his much15
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overdue talk on Logical Fallacies next month.He had collected example videos of logical
fallacies and showed one video where Cho
Ramaswamy, Editor of Thuglak magazine,
defends sexism by using scriptural references.The gist of the video is as follows
After the Mahabharatha war, Bhisma advisesDharmaputran on various aspects of life. One ofit is about nature of women.
He says women are full of desire and can never
be satisfied.
There used to be a time when women used to be
virtuous and adhrents of Dharma.
They were becoming as pious as the Devas and
this made the Devas jealous.
The Devas appealed to Brahmadeva to do
something about the situation.
Brahmadeva gave women Desire and Anger.
From then on humanity was ruined.
If a man has 1000 tongues, Bhisma says, and he
lives for 100 years, by the time he dies, he would
not have finished reciting all the bad qualities of
women.
At the same time there are women who upholdDharma and are patient. The world functions
because of these women.
Manu describes womens dual qualities and says
that they should be protected by her Father/
Husband/Son at various stages and that they
are ineligible for freedom.
Cho later goes on to justify the sexism in thescripture by giving it different interpretation.
Bala gave another example of
how parents usually say
things like You should have
been born as a boy to girlswho are talkative, confident,
good at sports etc.
These videos are a sure way to get your blood
pressure through the roof, said Geetha. Balanoted that these comments are more
dangerous than outright sexist comments like
that made by Delhi cops recently. Here thesexism is loosely veiled with scripture and
would be readily accepted by believers,
whereas the comments by Delhi cops were
revolting to most people irrespective of their
religious leanings. Bala gave anotherexample of how parents usually say things like
You should have been born as a boy to girls
who are talkative, confident, good at sports
etc. Though it sounds inane, the underlying
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message is that girls should not have such
qualities.
Ganesh suggested that we create rebuttals tosuch videos.
Bala agreed to take up the video
work and asked Ganesh to record his audio
response to the video. Bala also noted that wewont be breaking any copyright as we are using
the video for commentary. It may also berequired to subtitle Chos tamil commentary in
English.
Salpetta narrated an incident in Dubai wherehis friend has applied for a divorce, as her
husband was having an extramarital affair. Sinceher case came under Sharia law, she was
required to produce four male witnesses or 8
female witnesses to her husbands affair.WhenSalpetta enquired why it requires 8 female
witnesses and only 4 male witnesses, she told
him that it is because women are missing a partof the frontal lobe, and that they dont say what
they think and their thought process is
different! Bala said that it is heart wrenchingwhen the victim themselves argue for the
oppressive system. Geetha noted that it is a signthat patriarchy is winning.
Venkat shared his experience with castediscrimination in his hometown of Rajapalayam.His father would be very particular about the
caste of the people he deals with. Peoplebelonging to lower-castes would call him
sami, and he used to wonder, in what way he is
superior to them. Geetha mentioned how herin-laws used to serve beverages to workers in
separate cups.
...she told him that it is because
women are missing a part of
the frontal lobe, and that they
dont say what they think and
their thought process is
different!
Bala narrated how he came out to his extended
family as an atheist recently. During aconversation, few of his relatives mentioned
how they prayed for him while he was admitted
in the hospital after a near-fatal accident.They said that it was the prayers that brought
him back alive. Bala wondered why theydidnt take him to a temple instead of a
hospital after the accident! They respondedthat although doctors saved his life, god
played a vital role in getting him to the
hospital in time and making sure nothing wentwrong with the surgery etc. Bala retorted that,since you believe in god, you attribute such
things to god, whereas for me, it is purely
human effort, as I dont believe in god. Thistook them all by surprise. Balas dad patched
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up saying according to astrology, Bala was
destined to be a staunch believer by the time he
is in is his mid 30s, and this is just a phase he is
going through. Bala noted the irony of using
astrology to predict when one will start believing
in god. When talks about his marriage came up,
Bala insisted that his marriage be a civil
marriage without any religious ceremony. Thiscaused much more opposition than him coming
out as a non-believer.
... the irony of using astrology to
predict when one will start
believing in god.
Ganesh noted that, belief or non-belief ispersonal, but tradition is a public affair andtherefore harder to resist. Balaji mentioned
how the maid in his house usually sits on the
floor by habit, even though he insists that she
sits on the chair. Ganesh observed that they areindoctrinated from childhood, just like how
some muslim women claim that the veil is a
liberating attire. Rajendran wondered if suchcaste discrimination occurs only in India.Geetha noted that it happens in other countries
too, if not based on caste, for some other
reason, like skin colour.
Madhavan wondered if it would be possible tointroduce Stephen Hawkins famous
pronouncement that god is not needed for the
creation of the universe, in school syllabus.Ganesh said, maybe as history, by not in the
science class. Bala noted how every stategovernment textbook begins with Praise to
God. Ganesh said that its only a matter ofnumbers.A child of muslim parents will not
be required to recite a Hindu prayer.Similarly they shouldnt ask a child of atheist
parents to recite any prayer whatsoever.Nagalakshmi mentioned that prayer is even
touted as a part of good habit in moral science
textbooks. Salpetta wondered if it is moreprevelant in Christian schools. Ganesh notedthat the prime motive of such schools is to
convert and increase their numbers.
Madhavan said that one of his friends pointedto a poem in the vedas which speculates about
the existence of god. Bala noted that it is thesong of creation in Rig Veda where the author
speculates about the creation of the Universe,
and that perhaps even the gods dont know
how the universe began. Believers point tothis stanza to establish how Hinduism is open
to such speculation but they fail to mention
other stanzas in the same Rig Veda which are
full of rituals and dogma. Ganesh noted howSoma Juice is mentioned so frequently in the
vedas and how many stanzas are about petty
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differences and jealous incantations between
rival clans.
Salpetta requested that we make a simple videoexplaining and refuting the Kalam cosmologicalargument. He said most believers keep coming
back to that after theyve exhausted all other
arguments for the existence of god. Ganeshnoted that we are very susceptible to self-
deception and wishful thinking. We might evenbe hard wired to believe in the supernatural, as a
product of evolution. Bala intervened and said,just because there might be a god center in thebrain does not mean there is a god.Ganesh said, if you take 20 children and
isolated them and let them grow up without any
influence from the outside world, by the time
they grew up, they would have formed some
concept of the supernatural. But they would allhave completely different versions like thedifferent religions of the world. However, if
you introduce them to scientific method, all 20
of them, given enough time, will arrive at the
same conclusion independently.Madhavan wondered why the children might
come up with the supernatural concept in the
first place. Bala speculated that its perhapsbecause it is the easiest explanation to things
that are hard to explain. Madhavan enquiredwhy we as humans find it difficult to say I dont
know to the god question, but are more than
willing to say I dont know in everyday trivial
situations when we dont know the answer.
Ganesh opined that it is perhaps safer to
assume. He gave the example of cavemen whowould rather assume there is a lion in the
rustling bush and stay safe than risk going into
the bush. Bala pointed out that during aconversation when one person assumes the
existence of god, and the other person simply
says I dont know, there is a general
perception that the person who assumes gods
existence has won the argument. Madhavannoted that as an atheist he is much more
curious to find out about things. Bala gave an
analogy of coming out of an examination and
finding out from someone else that most of
your answers (god) are wrong. Similarly, for atheist who has assumed god to be the answer
for so many questions, it might be hard to
revisit those questions to find out a better
answer.
Bala intervened and said, just
because there might be a god
center in the brain does not
mean there is a god.
Madhavan quoted Jiddu Krisnamoorthysaying, a person who believes in Jesus will
only dream of Jesus, and a person who
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believes in Vishnu will only dream of Vishnu.Ganesh told us about the temporal lobe
excitation experiment where a believer sees
visions of god but a non believer doesnt.Geetha encouraged Rajendran, Venkat and
Salpetta to share a bit more about themselves.
... why we as humans find it
difficult to say I dont know tothe god question, but are more
than willing to say I dont
know in everyday trivial
situations when we dont know
the answer?
Rajendran said that though he finds the
arguments of atheists to be reasonable and
convincing, he does not identify himself as an
atheist. Ganesh enquired if it is because of thewhite coat and khaki shirt dilemma.A personwho is new to a place, if given a choice to wear a
neatly ironed white coat, or a ragged khaki shirt,
both clean, will always chose the white coat.Similarly, Ganesh said that people associate
god-fearing believers with qualities such as
honesty and kindness, whereas atheists are
considered immoral. Rajendran enquired whyeven though atheist arguments are so
reasonable, they are still in the minority. Hesaid he is not sure what atheists are missing
out, and that if Logic is the right way to
approach things. Ganesh answered thatamong various religious sects, non-believers
are the fastest growing sub-sect in most part
of the world. Geetha mentioned that no groupis perfect, and that there may be shortcomings
within Chennai Freethinkers too. Rajendrancame back to the point that he is not sure what
he might miss out being an atheist. Ganeshanswered with an example of two persons who
have met with a loss in business. One persongoes to Sabarimala, after going through the
taxing regiment of rituals, praying for god to
solve the problem while the other person
approaches the problem rationally.Who is itthat is missing out, asked Ganesh. If it is asense of community that one wants, that is
what we are trying to build here. Ganeshreiterated that one can be a non-believer and
still be a cultural Hindu, decorating the
Kolu stand with evolution rather than
Dasavathar. Geetha said that Rajendranshould have interacted with us more so that wecould have known his position better.Bala wanted to know what Rajendran meant
when he said he doesnt know if Logic is the
answer. Rajendran answered that when he
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sees the world through logic, it feels less
colourful. He said when he looks at the stars,
there are two ways of making sense. One is tosee them as magical, and the other is to see them
as a furnace.When he sees them as a furnace,his inspiration waters down. Ganesh loosely
quoted Richard Feynman and said that the
beauty of the star is available to everyone, but
the knowledge of how the star shines adds to
that beauty and does not subtract.Venkatmentioned that his English literature professors
treat Science as their nemesis, whereas Science
teachers dont see literature that way.
... when he sees the world
through logic, it feels less
colourful.
Rajendran gave another example. He imagined
travelling at night and coming across a building.It is dark, lit only by the shining moon and has a
general beautiful mystery surrounding it. Butonce he visits the building several times and
comes to know about it, that mystery is gone. Ithas lost the imaginative charm. Bala gave asimilar example. He was told as a child that thelunar eclipse is caused by a giant snake
swallowing the moon. This story was fascinatingto his childhood imagination and he would go
up to the terrace and try to see the snake in the
sky that is swallowing the moon. Later onwhen he was told that it is only a story and not
true, he still wanted to believe in it. But oncehe came to understand the real cause of the
eclipse he let go of the fantasy. It is a form ofloss. But the true reason is much more
beautiful than the fantasy said Ganesh. Balareplied that even if the true reason is not as
charming and creative, one has to value truth
over mystery. Rajendran said he wished tohave both the truth and the mystery. Ganeshreplied that there is mystery in nature too.Madhavan quoted Jiddu Krishnamoorthy
saying that one can see nature without the
screen of knowledge.
Geetha suggested that Rajendran read thebook Unweaving the Rainbow by Richard
Dawkins in which he deals with the exact
question of does science take the charm out of
reality. Bala suggested Magic of Reality byRichard Dawkins which also deals with the
same subject. Rajendran expressed interestin reading both of them.
... one has to value truth over
mystery.
Venkat grew up in a Hindu family. Hisparents insisted that he believe in some god,
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enthusiastic about reading science, though he
used to read fiction.After he attendedThinkFest last year, he felt like he had wasted
nearly 5 years of his life. From then on hebecame an avid reader and has visible passion
for new knowledge.
Madhavan mentioned that he enjoys Carnaticmusic, but most of the music is in praise of god.He said that if this system of music has to go for
the truth, then it should go. Bala intervened andsaid that, when it comes to art, he would leave
science behind. He said he wouldnt want to seeCarnatic music destroyed just because he
doesnt believe in god. He still enjoys the musicfor what it is. Balaji said that music is more than
words, and that he enjoys other language music
too that he doesnt understand.
After nearly three and half hours of livelydiscussion, we had to wind up, eagerly lookingforward to the next meet.
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15th Meet29th May 2012
- by Geetha TG
We Chennai Freethinkers are a restless lot.
Once a month, a few of us get together to
discuss topics related to atheism, skepticism and
humanism. But then soon we get discontented
and plan for something bigger. We organized a
meeting last July when a few of us spoke on
some topics. Then we organized a 2-day event
Thinkfest wherein we brought professors like
Dayanandan, Narendra Nayak and the IHEU
Director Babu Gogineni to speak on various
topics. Last Sundays meet was the result of a
similar urge to do something bigger. We
planned a presentation and a short talk followed
by a discussion.
The meeting started with a short introduction.Barathi started with sharing her concern about
some of her family members being enamored by
the latest Touch therapy. This was akin to Reiki,
someone said. Arvind demonstrated this therapy
on Bala S and caused much laughter by
explaining that the key feature of the touch
therapy is that the patient is not touched. This
was followed by the ice-breaking session (also
called the ragging session!) when the new
comers are asked to introduce themselves and
share what made them atheists. This is usually
a fun time when new comers open up. One de-
conversion story which has been consistently
heard and which is cause for much mirth is I
read the Bible/Quran/Gita/whatever. I
became an atheist. Simple. What can beat
this! Once a member, Soorya Sriram, had an
even more special story he was sent for a
veda training in the kanchi mutt and he came
back an atheist!
This time too we had people sharing theirstories. Keen observation, Skepticism and anutter sense of fairness seemed to have
contributed in arriving at their conclusions for
most of the members. Twenty nine people
attended the meet. Jagannathan
Veeraraghavan from the Bangalore
Freethinkers group had joined us. The stars of
the evening were the trio from Tirunelveli,
now settled in Chennai Radhakrishnan
Selvaraj, Rooban and Rahul. They rendered an
admirable freshness and their genuine
outpourings straight from the heart captivated
the audience. It was a sheer delight to hear
them talk. It appears that Radhakrishnan is
conducting a mini CF meet in his room every
night. Ishwarya, Arun, Arvind,Vaishnavi,Haripriya and Manikanadan were the other
newcomers.
Bala Bhaskar made a neat presentation on thetopic of Logical Fallacies. His presentation
was interspersed with quotes and videos and
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the exercise was to identify the fallacies
committed by the speakers. Hasty
generalization, Slippery Slope, False
Dichotomy, Argument from ignorance,
Argument form irrelevant authority are all now
part of our vocabulary! The video clippings were
a hit and evoked much laughter. A sample of the
video clips shown were 1) Cho Ramaswamys
talks in Engey brahmanan 2) Mamata Bs
walking away from the CNN-IBN show 3)
Richard Dawkins' (oh,yeah!) what if you are
wrong video clip and so on. All of us were
engrossed in the presentation before we
realized more than an hour had passed and i
twas time to move to the next point in the
Agenda. Fortunately Bala S suggested that Bala
B need not rush to complete the presentation
but instead continue in the next months meet as
the topic was a very important one and none of
us wanted to miss the video clips.
The tea break gave an opportunity for some
light-hearted conversation and ragging of the
late-comers (no one is spared - Equality, you
see!) To the question, why at all should we learn
the concepts of logic and why should we be
familiar with the logical fallacies, it was
explained that it would come in handy when
debating or discussing with theists. Bala S added
the important point that it would ensure that we
remain aware ourselves and not commit the
logical fallacies while talking.
The next programme was a short talk byArvind Iyer. The topic was Adjusting the rear
view mirror What freethinkers are leaving
behind. Arvind a doctoral student who is on a
visit to India is known to many of us as the
meticulous commenter (complete with
footnotes!) in the Nirmukta groups and an
author of several interesting articles in
Nirmukta and Indian Atheists. He addressed
the following points:
Bala S added the important
point that it would ensure that
we remain aware ourselves
and not commit the logical
fallacies while talking.
- How coming out as an atheist is nevercomplete and there is always a "blur"
-Confronting superstitions from non-religious sources in order to establish
ourselves.
- How we need to excel in our respective fields
and merely having a title as "atheist" is never
enough.
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- Reason based alternatives to religious
celebrations, by not necessarily discarding
religious festivals, but eliminating superstitious
aspects from them.
Arvinds talk was followed by a wide rangingdiscussion on all sorts of topics. Bala S took the
role of co-ordinator of this discussion (and was
promptly given the title of Arattai Arangam
Visu by Vaishnavi). An elaborate discussion on
prejudices based on complexion, caste,
knowledge of English language followed. Jagan
explained in detail how the Brahmins enjoyed alot of unseen privileges and support from the
society. When Haripriya and Vaishnavi
explained that they too faced a lot of unfair
expectations because they were considered by
others as Brahmins, they were told that it was
not the same and not as bad as real prejudice.
Radhakrishnan explained how he overcame hiscomplex and developed self confidence. His
spontaneous delivery endeared him to all and
particularly his youthful lingo Gethu and
Ganduwere much appreciated by the youth in
the group Balaji, Girish, Vaishnavi and
Soorya. He also told how he talks about the
universe, big bang and evolution to the
youngsters in his village and how they seem toget it immediately. He shared about how he
became gender sensitized and how the
discussions in the CF group helped him to
realize the importance of reservations and a lot
more. He talked about the importance of having
the posters and videos in Tamil to reach to a
wider audience. Bala B explained his attempts
at translating the Khan videos and Arvind
talked about how the TED videos are available
for translation and that it does not require
much effort. Roobans story was touching. He
explained how he realized the importance of
studies and how his fathers simple question
Have you tried it? Why dont you give it a
sincere try? motivated him to study hard. A
reminder to all of us as to how words can
impact a life. Ganesh and Manikandan, the
doctor brothers shared their stories about how
they dealt with the superstitions of their
patients.
It was 7.30 by the time we reluctantly wound
up the meeting - a good four and a half hours
had already passed. What struck me was that
the CF meets are not just about atheism it
was a shared love for science; a feeling of
empathy for the less fortunate; a stark
awareness about privileges; an honest
recognition of the prejudices and finally an
over riding feeling of humanism informed by
gender sensitivity and a quiet shunning of
class / caste inequalities.
We propose to follow this meets format inour future meets too. Intro/Presentation/
Shorttalk/Discussion. I request members to
come forward to make presentations and give
talks. None of us are experts and we need not
be the best of speakers. We particularly look
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forward to talks and presentations in Tamil. We
realize that we can treat our monthly meets as a
platform to hone our skills andasa soundingboard for our ideas. Suggestions for topics for
presentations/talks/discussions are most
welcome.
One cant help but feel hopeful about thefuture, seeing such a group of people - all
strangers, yet connected by a bond of secular
humanism. People who felt comfortable enough
to share what they felt when they were
discriminated and who were confident that theirthoughts and feelings would be understood
without them having to justify it or explain it.
Isnt this what community building is all about.
To think that all this was made possible because
one person dreamt of building such a
community of Freethinkers!
Thank you Ajita Kamal - we strive to carry it
forward.
... all strangers, yet connectedby a bond of secular
humanism.
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16th Meet17th June 2012
- by Geetha TG
As I sit to write a report on the Chennai
Freethinkers 16th meet that happened
yesterday (17th June), I am struck by the thought
that the CFT members would be right now ( a
routine Monday morning), engaged in diverseactivities in all sorts of offices and colleges for
we have members who are doctors, software
professionals, entrepreneurs,governmentemployees, film makers, students of arts /
science and so on. It is in this context that I find
the overwhelming response to Nirmals talk
astonishing. But then I am getting ahead ofmyself and so I start from the beginning.
The format for the CFT meets has evolved
through the months. For the first few meets we
did not have any major agenda it was a heady
feeling to meet fellow freethinkers with whom
we could discuss topics related to Science andRationality. And so we were content to get to
know people, share anecdotes about how we
confronted superstition and irrationality in our
lives, exchange details about good books and
blogs and occasionally watch a video or two.Last October we organized Thinkfest which was
very satisfying as we got to hear lectures by
some stalwarts. But then we realized our
monthly meets should also be more than
chatting sessions (not to undermine the
importance of such chats as it gives a lot of
space for people to open up). We also realized
that we have amidst us members who may not
be professional speakers but had good
knowledge on certain subjects and that their
presentations would benefit everyone in the
group.
We tried a new format last month
Introduction by new members,Apresentation, a short talk followed byinteraction and found that it worked well. This
month we planned the second part of Bala
Bhaskars presentation on Logical Fallacies
and instead of a short talk we asked Nirmal
Rajah to make a full length presentation on
Paleontology and Climate change.
We had several new members joining us thismonth. The ice-breaking session was fun as
usual with members sharing their
enlightenment stories. Hs story was our all
time favorite: I read the holy book of my
parents religion thoroughly and turned an
atheist! Nirmal regaled us by recollecting the
exact date he turned an atheist. He was taughtby professors who started their lectures saying
that they did not believe in Evolution but
taught because it was in the syllabus. Though
he was plagued with doubts about the
existence of god seeing that most of his
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prayers went unanswered, the moment of
realization dawned on the day he visited an area
in South India which was rich in fossils. Ds
story was touching when he explained how he
learnt to come to terms with his disability and
how he had to face the prejudice of people
around him. We had quite a few members who
said they were not atheists but joined the meet
because they had a lot of questions. One
member who attended our meet a year back said
that he did not attend the later meets because he
did not agree with the purpose of our meets. But
later he started studying and browsing science
related stuff and was happy to join us again. Rao,
a film maker said he was against all kinds of
inequalities.
Though he was plagued with
doubts about the existence ofgod seeing that most of hisprayers went unanswered, themoment of realization dawnedon the day he visited an area in
South India which was rich infossils.
Arjun, a student who had come on a visit from
USA attended the meet with his father who said
he was not an atheist but against rituals and
traditions. Sunday happened to be celebrated as
Fathers day and it was refreshing to see a
father and son duo who obviously did not
agree on everything but were magnanimous to
give each other a lot of space. Haripriya whohad attended the meet last month for the first
time had brought two of her friends and they
too said that they had come with an open mind
to learn. We were happy that this group is not
seen as a rigid group which welcomed only
members who are atheists but is considered to
be a place where ideas can be discussed with
an open mind and where you go hoping to
gain some knowledge. We would have liked
our new members to share their ideas more
but as we had lined up two presentations for
the day, we were hard pressed for time.Bala Bhaskar gave a short recap of his last
presentation and continued talking about
further fallacies. What made it easier to
understand the concepts were that the
examples were taken from what we confront in
our day to day life. Dr.B.M.Hegde in his
article in The Hindu that morning had given
us a lot of fodder for thought. The video clips
shown to identify the logical fallacies were
what we see in our televisions regularly a
clip from the Tamil programme Neeya
Naana, quite a few clips from Engey
Brahmanan (it was dripping with fallacies!)
and debates in the English news channels.
There were a few clips of Richard Dawkins
and Sam Harris trouncing their opponents by
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pointing out coolly the fallacies in their
arguments. We had a tea break and then it was
time for the next presentation.
Before his talk Nirmal Rajah was a bitapprehensive about his talk being not too
academic our response that we did not wantan academic talk as most of us were novices in
the field, was a relief to him. Once he startedtalking, we found his passion infectious and we
were thoroughly smitten by the topic. A couple
of members had studied Zoology in College
the rest of us were students of the world wideweb some of ushad lapped up what RichardDawkins, Stephen Jay Gould or PZ Myers had
written and some did not know much about
Evolution or Paleontology. Not to forget the
fact, that in all probability none of us are ever
going to sit in any class and hear a Professor
lecture about the Cretaceous era or see fossils of
any kind except maybe in a museum.
But when Nirmal gave his talk on Paleontologyand showed us his collection of fossils, the
Chennai Freethinkers were captivated and
listened in rapt attention. Of course we
committed the error of interrupting him with
our eager queries but that can be forgiven as the
folly of enthusiasm!We saw many fossilsincluding a Trilobite fossil. He explained to usthe time periods and talked about the 5 major
extinctions. Most of us had goosebumps when
we tried to contemplate the age of the fossils.Nirmal told us that Ariyalur near Trichy has a
rich collection of fossils but sadly not much
care is provided to protect the area. He had
prepared meticulous slides and it was mind
boggling to understand the work of a
paleontologist. We had several questions
about the manner of collection of fossils,
dating them and studying them. It was a very
vast topic and Nirmal patiently explained to us
how the past climates were and what
continental drift was. The presentation was for
nearly two hours but we hardly noticed the
passage of time.
It is to the credit of the members that they
showed great interest in understanding what
the fossils meant and what the scope of the
subject was. Of course we took an occasional
jab or two at the young earth creationists. It
never ceases to amaze us how fascinating theworld actually is and how petty the religious
stories finally are. Carl Sagan has put it
beautifully in his Pale Blue Dot, How is it
that hardly any major religion has looked at
science and concluded, This is better than we
thought! The Universe is much bigger than
our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more
elegant? Instead they say, No, no, no! Mygod is a little god, and I want him to stay that
way.
For some time now Chennai Freethinkershave been planning to move out of the
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conference halls and make a trip as a group. We
have had plans of visiting the Planetarium, the
Crocodile Bank and going on a Tree walk with
Nizhal to identify the common trees in Chennai.
Added to this now is a Fossil hunt at Ariyalur,
Trichy with Nirmal! It took some effort for us to
move from our comfortable afternoon chat
sessions to organize presentations and talks. It
might take similar effort to organize an outing
but we realize that the benefits would be
immense.
We seek topics for our future talks and we alsowish members would volunteer to make
presentations. One suggested topic is a Book
review. In time we should be able to organize
debates amongst ourselves.We realize theimportance of having freethought related
material in Tamil and so we seek translators. We
hope to have a member present a talk in Tamil
next month. We request members from other
city groups to join us in our meets and also give
short talks. We also intend to set atleast an hour
for interaction since we generally spend quite
some time sharing experiences, talking,
cribbing and ridiculing about issues which we
dont get to talk openly otherwise. That was
missing in this meetbut we will compensate inour next meet!
To conclude I would like to quote Richard
Dawkins from Unweaving the Rainbow After
sleeping through a hundred million centuries
we have finally opened our eyes on a sumptuous
planet, sparkling with colour, bountiful with
life. Within decades we must close our eyes
again. Isnt it a noble, an enlightened way of
spending our brief time in the sun, to work at
understanding the universe and how we have
come to wake up in it? This is how I answer
when I am asked as I am surprisingly often
why I bother to get up in the mornings. To put
it the other way round, isnt it sad to go to
your grave without ever wondering why you
were born? Who, with such a thought, would
not spring from bed, eager to resume
discovering the world and rejoicing to be a
part of it?
And so I extend a warm welcome to join us in
our monthly meets and experience an
enlightened way of spending our brief time in
the sun and to work at understanding the
universe.
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18th Meet12th August 2012
- by Geetha TG
The Chennai Freethinkers meets keep
morphing over time. What started as a group of
mostly lonely atheists who found each other
through the world wide web soon moved on to
explore areas of common interest. We quickly
found that we shared a passion for Science. TheNirmukta Facebook groups and the Nirmukta
blogs gave us a lot of food for thought. We
organized seminars on topics relating to
Evolution, Alternative Medicine and
Humanism. Then we held presentations on
Paleontology, Logical Fallacies and a
perspective on what freethinkers were leaving
behind. Of course, once in a while we dedicated
our monthly meets to exclusive interactive
sessions. These were important, for it gave us
space to open up and vent out in ways we could
not do even with family members.
Time and again we realized that we had to
educate ourselves on a number of issues like
patriarchy, misogyny, casteism, class issues etc.,We have members like Geeta Charusivam and
Udhav Naig who serve as resource persons
whenever we need clarifications on
discriminations based on caste and on the need
for affirmative action. We have quite a few
feminists in our group who speak up
whenever we come across gender
discrimination. Recognizing that ignorance isnot an option, we are open to receiving ideas
and willing to introspect. We strive to learn
from the experiences of other groups all over
the world. Every meet we talked, listened,
questioned and came up with a lot of ideas.
Keen on sharing our love for Science with the
general public and more importantly with
children, whenever we got a chance, we
grabbed it. Dr.Ganesh Veluswami
participated in Radio programmes and talked
about our rationalistic and humanistic point of
view. Venkat Narayana and Soorya Sriram
participated in a Television talk show (Neeya
Naana) and strived to dispel myths thatdreams convey a message about the future. It
was a brave attempt given the amount of
misinformation and pseudoscience that was
thrown around by many other participants.
Nirmal Rajah made a presentation on 15thAugust on the topic A journey to the past a
talk on fossils, to a group of childrenatMythri Art Academy, Chennai. The children
were completely bowled over and promptly
named him Fossil Anna. (Anna elder
brother in Tamil). After the talk some of the
children stayed for more than an hour to talk
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to him and take photographs with him. This was
the first attempt by Chennai Freethinkers to talk
exclusively on Science topics to children and not
mention religion or atheism even once.
Dr.Ganesh has offered to make a simple
presentation on Evolution. We plan to approach
organizations conducting summer/holiday
camps and offer to talk to children on scientific
topics.
...caste is the most sophisticatedoppressive system in the whole
world
And then there has been a steady trickle of new
members to our meets. We were happy that our
community is growing we realize that we have
something special and that we should not fritter
it away. Recently when a member shared a clip
from the documentary Seruppu (Footwear) in
our Facebook group, we saw an opportunity.
The issue of casteism is perceived in varied ways
and the topic of affirmative action evokes mixed
reactions. Not all of us realize what privilege
means and what reality is for most of our
compatriots. So we arranged for the screening
of the film and an interaction with the filmmaker
Amudhan on 12th August 2012.
The documentary gave us a jolt. It talked
about the layers of casteism and the nuances
involved; it recorded the lives of a group of
people belonging to the Arunthathiyar
community who are engaged in making
footwear. In a painfully casual manner it
showed the sad lives of the children who are
denied basic education. It brought the topic of
Dalit Christians into our conversation dalits
who had hoped to escape the shackles of caste
discrimination found the same sorry state in
Christianity too. It shocked us, angered usand depressed us. Not that we were all in a
cocoon and were totally unaware of people
struggling with issues of poverty and caste
discrimination. But to see it all up close was
shocking. Immediately after the screening we
were quick to react. Isnt religion the real
culprit we asked. Shouldnt they be told about
rationalism. Has anything been done to these
people. Did you go back there after the taking
the documentary? The questions flew thick
and fast. In our enthusiasm we did not initially
realize that the filmmaker had ably recorded
the stark lives of a dalit community and it was
not his responsibility to reform their lives nor
to offer solutions. He had done a wonderful
job of documentation and brought to light theplight of people living in unfortunate
circumstances. It was to the credit of Director
Amudhan that he handled all our questions
with grace and composure.
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In India everyone is born with a caste and is
identified by it whether he or she likes it or not.
You can change your religion but you cannot
get away from your caste. It is better in urban
areas but in rural areas the viciousness is real.
He explained in detail how the caste system
operates in villages. Geeta Charusivam added to
it by sharing her experiences in working with an
NGO. Every village has a place called Ooru
which is the main area of the village and a cheri
or colony where the dalits live. There is an
invisible line between these two areas and all the
facilities like schools, public health centres and
government institutions are located in the
Ooru. Dalits find it difficult to access these
facilities and have to take massive effort to
access the basic facilities braving not only the
discomfort of distance but the cruel words and
looks of those who consider themselves as upper
castes.
For a woman who complains ofdiscrimination inside achurch ... atheism might be aliberation. But offering that as a
solution might alienate them.
We first need to ensure equalityfor her or at the very least weshould support those who fightto end such discrimination.
Not much has changed for those people,
Amudhan said. But then he was happy that
there is a move to recognize the term Dalit
Christians and the recognition that
reservation needs to be given to them too is
slowly dawning. Discrimination inside
churches is also being recognized and some
efforts are being taken by a few church
personnel to counter them.
Maybe we were too quick to point out that
religion was the offender and offered
rationalism as a solution. And we wereprobably nave to believe that the lives of those
documented would be somewhat better now.
It took some time for us to realize that
dramatic changes do not happen and that
there are layers and layers of issues involved.
For a woman who complains of discrimination
inside a church (such as not being given the
opportunity to read the bible during a prayer
as one women said in the documentary),
atheism might be a liberation. But offering
that as a solution might alienate them. We first
need to ensure equality for her or at the very
least we should support those who fight to end
such discrimination. This is one pre-
competitive issue we need to address standing
shoulder to shoulder with theists.
The interaction with Filmmaker Amudhan
continued and the conversation covered a lot
of ground. A couple of members said that they
avoided speaking in Tamil Brahmin lingo.
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One member said this was because he feared
ridicule and another said it was because he did
not want to be identified as a brahmin though
people invariably asked him if he was one and he
felt violated. Amudhan responded by saying that
the Brahmin lingo was associated with power/
prestige and ridiculing it was an attempt at
subversion by those outside the circle. Later on
reflecting, I realized that, even in casual
conversations it is effortless for Brahmins or
other so called upper caste people to identify the
caste label of their parents even if they rejected
the caste identity. Even class inequalities are
comparatively easily addressed. There have been
atleast two instances of members talking about
that part of Chennai they hailed from which was
not considered so upper class. But identifying
as from the oppressed caste? Never! I dont
remember a single instance in a meeting when a
member identified himself / herself as a dalit
and it is definitely not for lack of dalit members
in the group, speaking from my knowledge.
What is it that makes them demur, we need to
introspect. Of course, it is absolutely not
necessary that a member needed to reveal if he
was a dalit. What got me thinking was that
frequently we have had members who confessed
that they belonged to the communities thatoppressed others and that they felt ashamed of
it. They shared experiences about how when
they were young they would address the elderly
people from the so called low caste who
worked in their farms/houses by name and
without respect. They felt sad about it and said
they have changed those habits now. I hope
for a day when members from the oppressed
communities come out openly and talk about
their experiences. For it is these shared
experiences and shared learning that would
goad us to grow and provide a safe space for
all the minorities, be it caste, class or gender.
When the topic turned towards who were the
most oppressed of all, Dilip shared his
experiences during a Documentary shootwith Transgendered people and said that theyare one of the most oppressed and
discriminated lot.A lot of issues werethrashed in the open that day. Sometimes the
arguments looked like it would turn heated.
There was a rush of questions and not
everyone got the chance to air their views
because of lack of time.We plan to watch theother two documentaries Shit and Notes from
the Crematorium by Amudhan and he has
promised to attend our future meets and
interact with us after screening his films. He
said that he enjoyed the open minded
interaction with our group and was happy to
consider himself a part of our group.
The film, the interaction and the conversationthat followed left us cold. There was no sense
of completion that day. In a way we had
challenged ourselves to question our
privileges, explore reality and inform
ourselves about the sad state of affairs all
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around us which we had learnt to ignore for the
sake of our convenience. And we emerged a
little more informed and empathetic about the
lives of people who are no different from us and
deserved our consideration. Each one of us
carried home a message that day: equality and
opportunity should never be denied to any
human being and that it is criminal to be selfish
and oblivious to the privileges enjoyed by each
one of us. We hope that this message would
manifest in our thoughts and actions and we
would have the courage to speak up when a
friend or colleague or family member makes ill-
informed comments about the oppression and
discrimination in society. It is hopes and
experiences such as these that make us cherish
our community and bring us back to the CFT
meets month after month.
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19th Meet30th September 2012
The 19th chennai freethinkers meet was held at
the Malles Manotta conference hall in T Nagar
on 30th September 2012 at 2.30 PM. Three
talks by Prof. Narendra Nayak, President of
FIRA, Sonja Eggerickx, President of
International and Humanist Ethical Union
(IHEU), and Babu Gogineni, Director of
IHEUwere planned for the event. All of themwere on their way to Tanjavur for another event
and had an one day stop-by in Chennai. We
decided to utilise this and organised the event in
accordance with their travel plans.
There were quite a few new members for the
meet. Usually we would have a raggingsession where the new members introduce
themselves and share their thoughts on
Freethought, Humanism, Atheism etc. It really
helps break the ice as members share heartfelt
stories of religious indoctrination and abuse,
things they would not be able to share anywhere
else. Not to mention the hilarious anecdotes
they would narrate which fills the hall withlaughter. However, for this meet, since we were
running short on time, we decided to skip the
introduction session and go straight to the talks.
So with the hall nearly filled to capacity, about
thirty participants eagerly waited to hear from
the speakers.
Prof.Nayak spoke about the need to reach
common people with ideas of rationalism. Henarrated various incidents from his decades
long career of traveling the length and breadth
of the country to urge people to think
critically and rationally through his miracle
debunking programs. He insisted that though
science education is important, the easiest
way to dispel so-called miracles by alleged
godmen is to perform them oneself. In hisusual style, Prof.Nayak narrated how he could
explain in detail to a superstitious person the
principles of Leidenfrost effect and how it
helps people walking on burning embers so
that they dont burn their feet. But after all the
explaining, the person would still demand
Prof.Nayak to walk on the embers himself and
show. He noted that the reason why the new
generation of godmen in the country were
largely refraining from performing such
miracles is probably because they realised
that their tricks will be exposed by rationalists.
Sonja Eggerickx spoke about her experiences
with Humanist and Ethical education for
children in Belgium. She narrated how thehumanists fought to bring in a secular syllabus
and non-religious schools in every town in
Belgium. She shared her thoughts on teaching
children secular non-confessional ethics,
which is the equivalent of Moral Education in
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Indian syllabus but without any religious
undertones. She admitted that she is not happy
with the term non-confessional to denote
secular ethical education as it has a negative
connotation. She said, during public meetings,she does not refer to people as Religious and
Non-Religious, but as Freethinkers and Non-
Freethinkers. During Q and A she touched on
the topic of Euthanasia which invited a lot of
questions from the audience.
Taking Humanism to the common man and
woman was the topic Babu Gogineni spoke
about. He said that though it is necessary to
have academic discussions and debates about
Humanism, Atheism etc, they are not of much
use unless they somehow help the citizens. He
narrated various incidents where superstitious
beliefs have been used to oppress and intimidate
people and how the ideals of Humanism have
actually saved lives. He urged people to not
hesitate in calling themselves Humanists and
Atheists. A lively Q and A session followed the
talk.Apart from the three seasoned speakers, we had
an impromptu speech by Arun Gogineni, Son of
Babu Gogineni. The 8 year old regaled the
audience by volunteering to talk on the topic of
Humanism!
In spite of studying well, if I
dont get good marks in my
Exam, what can I do? Is there
a short-cut to get good marks?
Arun confidently answered
No, you have to work hard.
There is no shortcut
He said Humanists dont believe in god; they
are nice people and work very hard. He signed
off by saying that when he grew up, he wanted
to be like his Dad. There was a Q&A session
too when a member asked him, Inspite of
studying well, if I dont get good marks in my
Exam, what can I do? Is there a short-cut to
get good marks? Arun confidently answered
No, you have to work hard. There is no short
cut. Watch out for this budding Humanist
speaker.
On behalf of Nirmukta, we would like to thank
all the four guests who, despite their hectic
schedule and in spite of being sleep deprived,
took their time to talk with us. It was
heartening to hear from the audience how
much they enjoyed all the talks and how they
wanted more. With the satisfaction of having
conducted another successful meet, we
dispersed, with the promise of meeting again.
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The Rearview Mirror
At the end of last years report, we proposed a few activities/projects to focus on during 2012.
Here is a look at where we are with those.
Proposed Activity Status
Organising In-group
Seminars
As seen in the report, we have conducted a number of
seminars during the year, with both in-group members aswell as experts in the field. Also we took the opportunities to
meet-up with experts like Prof.Narendra Nayak and Babu
Gogineni whenever they are in the city.
ThinkFest 2012 ThinkFest was a huge success last year. The work for
organising a ThinkFest this year is going on. Once the date
and the speakers are finalised, we will be announcing the
event.
Improving Audiovisual
Capabilities
We have streamlined our video capturing process during
seminars to enable quick turnaround between the event and
uploading the video onto the internet for others to watch.
We bought a few equipments to improve the quality of the
audio, as can be heard in our latest videos.
Translating Khan
Academy Videos
This project has morphed into producing original Tamil
Science Educational Video content.
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2013
Here are a list of ongoing projects as well as proposed ideas for 2013
Ongoing projects/Proposed Activities
Description/Status
Producing Tamil Science
Video Content
A few of us have taken up producing video versions of the
individual chapters in Richard Dawkins latest book, The
Magic of Reality. We found out that we had good voice
talent within the Nirmukta community. We have finalised
the script for two chapters and are currently recording audio.
Audio Podcasts During our monthly meets, a few of us can assemble a bit
early and have an off-the-cuff discussion about a specific
topic. This can be recorded and uploaded as a regular
podcasts. This idea is proposed because,
It will give members who are yet to attend one of our
meets, an idea of what goes on in our meets.
Podcasts have shorter production period and can be
published regularly.
Face-to-Face discussions would be much better and
spontaneous than online discussions.
This was actually requested by many members in Facebookwho are not in Chennai but would love to attend the meet.
This will capture the spontaneity and humor during the
discussion which would be lost in a scripted production.
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Recommended