Professionally I:
z Created the 90 Day Year. A program for business owners who are frustrated with their level of performance and want to learn the art & science of execution,
z Failed at several businesses. (One of those I lost my entire life savings.) But, I also won at enough to turn them into seven and eight figure ventures,
z Worked all over the world. 82 countries total,
z Coached thousands upon thousands of athletes on developing their mental game,
z Advised & Mentored hundreds of business owners on high performance and personal leadership.
z Built a software company.
z And, I’m not done yet...
Personally I am:
z A husband to a beautiful, smart and z financially sharp woman, who really wants
a third baby (unfortunately we haven’t mastered two),
z A father to two little girls, whom aren’t very good sleepers, giggle a lot and are obsessed with ‘horsey’s’ and merry-go-rounds,
z A daily letter writer. I’ve written over 3600 personal letters to people. (5 a week since I was 23),
z A farmboy from Schuler, Alberta, Canada. z A New Yorker, living in Chelsea.
ABOUT TODD HERMAN
Want to go from HAVING great ideas,
to consistently EXECUTING
on great ideas?
Discover The ‘90 Day Year’ Transformation HERE
Entrepreneurs struggle with the chasm that separates starting something and finishing it. Let me show you the system for achieving massive growth in
your business, without the overwhelm and stress.
Angela Jia Kim - #20
Show notes at: http://bit.ly/KimGrit
From Celebrated Concert Pianist to Beauty, Media & Lifestyle Brand
Maven: The Angela Jia Kim Story
Todd Herman: Welcome to Episode #20. In Episode #19 you heard the strange journey
of a woman who grew up homeless, became a traveling theater performer, daycare
owner, and ultimately one of the most powerful community and tribe builders on the
internet.
In today’s episode you’ll hear from a woman who was an acclaimed concert pianist and
left that world to stand in a cold tent to sell cosmetics in Columbus Circle here in New
York City but kept hustling to become a power-female entrepreneur with multiple brands
and businesses, Angela Jia Kim.
Welcome to the Grit ‘n’ Hustle podcast with your host, entrepreneur, and internationally
acclaimed ultra-high performance and leadership advisor, Todd Herman. The place to
hear 100% real and raw stories of how high achievers actually made it with no cotton
candy fluff, no filler, and no fades, just actionable inspiration to keep you learning,
growing, and striving to reach new personal bests.
Without any more delay, here’s your host, Todd Herman.
Hello Grit ‘n’ Hustle Nation. If this is your first time listening in, thank you for choosing
us to spend some time with today. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast over at iTunes.
Now, just like all the episodes, we have show notes, transcripts, and actionable tips over
at the blog. You just need to go to http://toddherman.me/blog to dig into all the goodies
that we have there.
If you’ve ever heard about the value of having a mentor or mentorship, I just wrote the
definitive guide on finding and becoming a mentor. If you just text the word “hustle” to
38470 it will magically appear in your hands through the power of good old technology.
I have had the great fortune of having some incredible mentors in my life and those
mentors easily accelerated my path to achieving new successes by steering me around
roadblocks that would’ve normally slowed me down and also introducing me to better
quality people to help me out as well.
It’s the question I get asked the most about so I created a guidebook to help you reap
the benefits of a great mentor. And, if you are in a position to be a mentor to others you
will get incredible value from the structure of how to make it a win-win for both sides.
Again, just text “hustle” to 38470. If you’re outside the U.S. and Canada just go to
http://toddherman.me and you can snag it there. Now on to today’s show.
Entrepreneur.com said, “If Angela Jia Kim were a Hollywood personality she would be
considered a triple threat.” She pulls from her experience as an accidental entrepreneur
who built the Savor Lifestyle brand from scratch to seven figures to help others do the
same. She is also a former award-winning and jet-setting concert pianist, a New York City
“not” housewife, and mom to a first-grader CEO and chocolate-loving yellow lab.
Angela founded Om Aroma & Co. and Eco-Chic Skincare and Savor Spa in New York City’s
West Village and Woodstock, New York, which the New York Times says has drawn a
loyal following among fashion industry types for its decadent, yet affordable, holistic
facials and massages. She has also founded a women empowerment organization, Savor
the Success, which was chosen as Forbes’ Top 100 Websites for Women, where creators
and makers push each other to achieve through meeting benchmarks together.
Her newest venture is Savor Life, the first beauty-to-business magazine for women. I
could have talked to Angela for hours and hours on this one. We talk about the realities
of growing a business, how she benchmarked herself against someone else in a farmer’s
market to try and sell as much product as her, and how she constantly iterated on her
business to grow it into a power brand.
This was like sitting down with an old friend. I know you’re going to enjoy hearing from
this energetic New Yorker, Angela Kim.
Todd: Grit ‘n’ Hustle is real and raw stories telling you exactly how people who have
done good things have actually gotten to where they are today.
Angela Kim, thank you so much for joining us on the Grit’n’Hustle show.
Angela: I’m so excited to be here. I’ve been looking forward to this for a while because
it’s one of my favorite topics.
Todd: Well, I’d love to find out right off the bat, what have I interrupted in someone’s
day by doing this interview? What’s on your calendar today?
Angela: It’s just a lot of work here. I’ve got the staff here and we’re just working through
a lot of holiday projects. It’s holiday season coming up!
Todd: Why don’t we actually start there? In the intro, I highlighted some of your
businesses, but why don’t you, kind of, straight from the horse’s mouth, explain all of the
different enterprises that Angela is involved in.
Angela: You probably mentioned I’m a former concert pianist and that led to Om Aroma
& Co, my organic skin-care line that’s produced fresh daily in the Hudson Valley about
two hours north of New York City. I have a boutique spa in the West Village in New York
City called Savor Spa.
I also have a spa in Woodstock, New York. We are expanding and along the way I always
say my cream inspires others to dream. So, I launched Savor the Success, a women’s
empowerment organization, and I just recently launched Savor Life magazine, which is
the first magazine that covers beauty to business.
I call it the Savor Lifestyle brand because it really is about living your dream and savoring
life along the way.
Todd: You highlight that, I was going to ask you why “Savor”, why has that word
resonated with you?
Angela: It’s funny, it’s not funny actually but it is what leads me here; my dad passed
away when I was 13 years old and I never thought life could be so fleeting. I never
thought life was that fragile. I think when you experience something so jolting like that
it makes you realize the fragility of life and that you only really have one life so let’s make
something of it and really savor the moments along the way—the good and the bad.
Todd: I’m glad you bring that up. I often find that the people who are trumpeting some
sort of mantra or phrase are usually trumpeting it because it’s the very thing they have
always struggled with themselves. So has savoring the moment always been something
that Angela has possibly struggled with, because you are a total achiever type?
Angela: Yes.
Todd: You are always looking at growth and expansion and doing more and stuff.
Angela: That’s such an acute observation. I really believe what you just said is true.
Totally. Savor the Success is really about my parents who are Korean. They were well
intentioned but definitely tiger parents. It was all about winning that next competition as
a pianist and getting into the best schools, getting all A’s.
“A-? What’s that minus? What is that?” It was all about succeeding for the sake of
accomplishing and succeeding. Along the way I just really got burnt out. The suicide rate
is very high among a lot of Asian students because it’s all about the success.
Then I found that even when I would succeed I would decide that didn’t taste so good
and wondered what was next. At what point was I going to be happy? The Forbes’
billionaire list where they are just competing with each other, that’s still not enough. So
when is it ever a moment where you take time and say, “That was amazing! This feels
so amazing and good, let’s savor it.”
Todd: I find it really ironic though that you are the torch bearer of savoring the moment
and all of those examples of billionaires that are fighting it out at the top, yet you are
doing it in the most hyper-competitive city in the world. It is a constant reminder that
you have got less than someone else.
Just a couple of weeks ago in the New York Times there was a gentleman who bought a
condo in New York for, I think, $88 million dollars. The very next week someone came in
and bought one for $118 million dollars. Even at that level it’s very much a reminder here
in the city that whatever you think you have, if you’re in the comparison zone, there is
always someone that will come along. It’s just funny that you’re doing it while also being
embedded in a very competitive city.
Angela: Totally. It’s extremely competitive in New York City. You said something where
you always have less than someone else. The question is, do you really have less than
that person? And does it really matter?
It’s a hamster wheel. I just want to enjoy my life and I want to enjoy it to the hilt. I love
healthy competition. I think healthy competition is so good for you because when used
right and when you focus competition in a way that draws out the best in everyone, it
draws out the best in everyone.
Todd: When you see competition for your Savor retail and beauty stores, what’s the first
thought that goes through your head about that?
Angela: I just love competition. It makes me want to do my best. I think I’m inherently
a lazy person. I could stay in my bed all day and just hang out with my daughter and my
dog but my husband is like, “Get up, get up!”
I kind of need that excitement. I find it very sexy. I find it very stimulating to be in healthy
competition. Your question was how that affects me?
Todd: Yes, you know, when you see that competition, like if Kiehl’s is opening a store
right next to yours.
Angela: Oh my god! I always have said to my employees if Kiehl’s or somebody would
open right next door to us we would double our revenue instantly.
Todd: You would?
Angela: Yeah, that really excites me. It would be like, “Okay! Now we’ve got to really
differentiate ourselves. We’ve got to find our corner.” That’s how I started. About five
years ago I opened up my first holiday pop-up shop in Bryant Park.
I had my little booth and across the way was a phenomenal, wonderful entrepreneur who
is so cute. She sold really colorful handbags. She always had so many people in her booth
and I never had anyone in mine because I was just starting out. I didn’t know anything
about merchandising. I didn’t know anything about sales. I didn’t know anything about
business period.
I had also just given birth to Sienna so I was breastfeeding. That’s how I got better at
what I did. I looked at what she was doing and saw that she had a lot of color and that
was what was attracting people. I knew I had to get more color too so I just used it as
my Harvard Business School education.
I hate copying people. I like to use what they’ve got to find what’s special about myself.
I would come in everyday and all of the entrepreneurs were around and they would
always laugh when I would show up. I would show up with a new technique to sell
because she was such an inspiration to me.
She was making $1,000 a day and at the time that was so much money to me. I was
making maybe $200 to $400 a day. I had to get to $1,000. I figured if she could do it I
could do it to. So every day I would come up with creative solutions. I remember one
day I showed up with a silver platter.
We have a product called the champagne cleanser. I put the cleanser there and had little
champagne goblets that I was giving out. People were just laughing at me because I
never gave up. But that’s an important story. I think it can inspire a lot of other people.
What I did in those two months in the cold winter months of New York City was start to
develop my sales system. It is now a system that the aestheticians in spas use to sell
products.
Everything I learned, how a customer looks at me, am I too aggressive, what made them
take out their credit card to buy, what was it that I did this time…I studied everything.
That came from healthy competition out there. And that was a really awesome, special
time.
Todd: You mentioned that you started with a pop-up shop. Was that strategic? Did you
decide you would validate your business idea or product with a pop-up shop and not
invest in retail space, or what was your thought process behind that?
Angela: I wish I were as smart as you just painted me to be. I had just given birth to
my daughter on October 6 in St. Vincent’s Hospital in the West Village (it is no more). I
was back home and I don’t know if this is going to sound terrible, but I was kind of bored
because I had just come back from touring piano and now my baby was always sleeping
and I adored her and loved her but I felt I had a little tiny partner and wanted to do
something together.
I felt a creative force inside of me, an activity inside of me. I had double the energy and
wanted to know what I was going to do with the energy. I said, “Sienna, we are going
to open a pop-up shop and we’re going to make this happen.” And I just did it.
Todd: She was so excited with that idea. You were in her face telling her you were going
to open a pop-up shop.
Angela: I know, she was just a month old and said, “Okay!”
Todd: She could already verbalize. You have a very advanced child right off the bat.
Okay, so you did the pop-up shop. Would you call that a success?
Angela: I sold around $40,000 of greens in the holiday period. I like to do what everyone
else is doing. I remember the big soap shop that’s been around for 20 years did $100,000.
I felt like a failure compared to them. But then, you know what, it was $40,000. I would
never make that kind of money with a business because I had just launched. Then I
thought, “Oh, I think I have a business.”
I was very naïve. I decided it was a concept that could kind of work. So I just followed
my nose and that’s what I’ve done. I opened a little pop-up shop in Limelight Marketplace
as well. That is in Chelsea. It was my next venture into retail.
Eventually I realized I had a lot of people that were buying from me that lived in the West
Village so that’s what led to the boutique spa in the West Village.
Todd: Why do you think people were buying from you? Were people buying from you
because you were a good salesperson? Everyone loves to try to craft a brand story and I
try to tell people it’s really hard to compete, because you’re getting ideas about how to
build a brand from mega companies who have millions and millions of dollars to invest in
just trying to implant one tiny little storyline into your head through advertising, we don’t
have that capacity to do that. What was the growth engine behind you selling $40,000 in
your pop-up shop?
Angela: It was just grit. That’s why I love the name of your podcast because it was grit.
You can imagine. That was a month after I gave birth. Even though I had a lot of creative
energy, you know what that is, you have children. That’s a lot of energy to do this. It was
really hard.
I made it sound really fun and exciting right now. But, the other side of the reality was
that it was depressing because I was not used to this. As a concert pianist I was used to
people coming to me and excited that I would come into town to perform for them and
line up in a long line to buy my CDs and get my autograph. I would say it was very
humiliating for me to become essentially the Macy’s sales girl.
I was out there saying, “Would you like to try some organic chardonnay cream?” Sales
was so hard for me because I had a lot of pride. That was the worst thing. I had so much
pride. I was sure people would just come to me because my creams were great. That’s
not true.
I went out there and had to fall on my face nine out of ten times. But the tenth time
someone would buy from me and that was enough of a rush to get me back out there
on the field to keep selling. I kept going out and developing what is now my system for
sales.
Todd: What was driving you to want to do that? Was there a grander vision or what?
Angela: I think it was perseverance. It was my background as a pianist of not giving up,
keep going. The bottom line is that I wish I had a vision back then. My vision was that I
had a big idea that Estee Lauder would buy my company one day. But I didn’t know
anything about how I would get there.
I don’t know why that’s been in my head and I don’t know if it’s going to come true. But
that was my vision back then. I was just going to do it. I didn’t know anything beyond
that. There were no particulars and no how’s. I just knew I had to sell a cream.
Todd: You brought up two kind of really important points I think every entrepreneur has
to get past when they are starting out: 1) Humiliation, and 2) Pride. A lot of times people
might be starting up a business venture after they’ve had a lot of success elsewhere. Now
they have to build up a new level of skill or a thicker skin with regard to getting “no’s”
like you were getting.
I would love for you to talk about the humiliation side of things and what that experience
was like for you. Then, what was it like for your husband while he was trying to possibly
emotionally support you through that time too.
Angela: The first question was around how I got over the humiliation. My big thing in
life is that some things have to be greater than something. Either humiliation is greater
or the vision is greater. Whichever is greater is the one you will walk toward. If you have
a problem with humiliation and perfectionism, depression, or whatever it is that holds
you back, everyone has their bag of things, that vision or desire to win or the desire for
something has to be greater.
I like to win. That woman across the way was my only vision. She was doing so well. I
knew I could do that well. I could do that too. Even if that’s the small vision, the bigger
vision was what I just shared with you but the small vision is that I could get to $1,000
a day too and I was going to get there.
That was bigger than my humiliation.
Todd: I think your second point is an even more important point than the grander vision.
I think there are a lot of people out there who stand on the stump and talk about finding
your “why”. Simon Sinek talks about it. But I actually very much disagree with it in the
very beginning of a business.
You can use all of these examples like Apple. Is Apple’s why bigger than just selling a
computer? It is now. But not when it frickin’ started. It’s just like you. I think it’s such a
good lesson to teach other people to find a local focal point, something that’s really close
to you. Yours was the girl right across the bazaar area from where you were selling your
stuff and beat her or be as good as her, maybe even.
Angela: Local focal point. That’s really good. I’m typing that out. I like that. I think what
you are saying, Todd, is what’s the next best. You and I both inspire a lot of entrepreneurs
to really get to the next level. I think what you are saying is something I subscribe to
wholeheartedly.
You have a big thing you want to do. You want someone to buy your company, you want
to raise funding, or whatever. That’s the bigger energy out there. But let’s focus on your
next best. Just do the small little thing that’s going to give you your next level.
For me it was just as small as what’s possible for me. I sought what was possible for this
woman. Her name is Melissa and I should send her this podcast afterward…
Todd: You should, definitely.
Angela: But just watching her and seeing how she was selling, I learned so much that
was such an amazing thing. I would watch small things. A customer was about to buy.
What was the body language? What is it that she’s saying? We were so close together
that we could almost hear it and I noticed that if she had the woman put on the handbag
and look in the mirror and turn around, she would say, “Imagine that you’re able to go
from work to your dinner date,” and she would most likely make that sale.
That taught me an important lesson of a story. A story sells. So I started wondering what
my story was. I think going with that local focal point of, “she can do it, I can do it too,”
was very inspirational for me.
Todd: What was your story? This is the hardest thing about selling services. If there is
one thing the great Billy Mays did (if you don’t know who Billy Mays is and you are
listening right now, he’s the great pitch man that’s done more infomercials than anybody),
he said demonstrability and demonstrating the product is the most important part of a
sales process.
In services, it’s hard to do that. We possibly do that sometimes with case studies or
testimonials. But with you, you actually had cream to demonstrate. So what was your
story that you would use?
Angela: By the way, everyone has a story. I think with services there are ways to express
it and we can talk about it later. But my story was very simple. I was a concert pianist. I
put this “natural” cream on my body before walking on stage and started breaking out
into hives in front of hundreds of people. That was horrifically humiliating.
That’s what inspired me to go into my kitchen and start making my own creams that
were free of toxins, paraben, and preservatives. That’s how I started. I created these
creams 1,000 times in my small Manhattan galley kitchen at the time and testing them
on my husband and friends. I even went to Whole Foods and asked people if I could test
on them and asked which one they preferred.
I became obsessed with creating the perfect creams. That is the story. That’s the overall
brand story. But I’m talking about when you are out there, what you said is the key…the
demonstration. I always say to our salespeople, the aestheticians in the brick and
mortars, you’ve got to involve all six senses of the person.
They need to see, touch, smell, everything. If you’re talking too much and you’re not
letting them experience it, then you’re not painting a story for them. They don’t care
about my story at the moment when they are going to purchase. What they care about…If
they just told me, for example, they have five kids, they would say, “Are you kidding me
Angela? I’m not going to be able to put on a serum and toner and take care of myself.”
So this is how I’m going to sell it to them, “When you’re crazy and the kid is throwing
macaroni and you’ve got to get them in the car to the school and you are rushed, just
take a moment for yourself so you can show up as a better mother.” They can mist it in
the car and put on the serum at the same time and they are good to go.
Once you paint the picture of plug and play, how the products can make their moment
or day a little bit better, it makes sense and they can see themselves doing it. They then
take it home. You’ve got to paint that picture for them.
By the way, that’s how you sell service. That’s how you sell everything. It’s all about
hearing what is going on with them and mirror the story back but tell them how your
product’s physical presence, the service’s physical presence in their life, is going to make
their life better.
If you can do that effectively then you’ve got a sale. You’ve made a difference for
someone. I don’t really like to call it a sale. It’s like you really served the person.
Todd: You are selling the transformation. Most people try to make their product the front
and center thing. That’s not me. I always tell people my product or service is the obstacle.
People want what’s on the other side of this thing I’m delivering to them. When I was
focusing only on sports they don’t want all of the mental toughness and peak-
performance coaching. What they want is to stand on top of the podium.
Angela: Totally.
Todd: You need to be able to tell the story of how that helps them get on the podium.
Angela: And what you said really is key. I think where people really falter, and I always
tell this to my sales staff and aestheticians in the store, if someone asks you for the price
always think of the price as if it has a last name too. You have to say the first name and
last name. It’s not the price, it’s “and it’s going to last you four months. A little goes a
long way.”
You talk about the benefit. You never say the price. You don’t just say the first name,
you say the last name too. That takes a lot of training to train people to think in terms of
how it will transform the skin, their life, getting on the podium, whatever it is. You’ve got
to talk about that transformation. That’s key to great marketing. Once you realize that,
your business can change.
Todd: I refer to it as the “so that” statement. You are putting this on in the morning so
that later in the day you don’t look tired, or whatever the thing is. Getting back to the
pride thing, your first day out there you were hawking your wares. You didn’t necessarily
like the way your booth was set up compared to someone else. What did you come home
and, if you could go back, what was that first night like where you were sitting across
from your husband drinking a glass of wine and what were you saying about your day?
Angela: Let me back up a little bit. I think it was the first day that my husband came
into the booth. I remember the feeling. I was standing behind the cash register. There
was no one in my little pop-up shop and I was feeling a complete drain of blood from my
body. I wondered what I had gotten myself into.
I said to my husband, “I just don’t want this to be a zero-dollar day.”
He is so supportive. He asked what we needed to do and wondered if we needed some
more color. He asked if he needed to build me a website (he’s a techy). I think at that
moment maybe I think a little bit like a man in that way. I just had to figure it out. I had
to get back to my drawing board. I couldn’t talk to anyone right now. I had to hunker
down my resources and my energy and just had to do something.
That night when I came home, yes he probably cooked me a great meal and told me to
relax. I probably stayed up all night working on something that would help the next day;
whether it was deciding my plan, what I would do, what I would do differently, maybe I
was reading a sales book, I was constantly trying to drink it in so that I could go back
and show up better the next day.
Todd: Do you think that’s a theory of your life? Do you think you are always focused on
constant improvement? You can’t be a world-class concert pianist and you can’t have
now built two or three successful brands and businesses…what do you think the motivator
is for you?
Angela: I think what you said earlier really resonates with me. As we evolve as business
people it really makes a difference. The motivator is constantly shifting, hopefully, as you
evolve.
When I first started it was, “Let me just be able to do this so I can have money in the
bank so that it won’t overdraft.” Then it fully became, “I need to pay my first employee.”
Then I wondered why “she” was making more money than me. I needed to start getting
paid. Every step I have a new one, “I have to make rent now. Now my rent’s $6,000 in
the West Village and I have to pay that.”
Then it became, “Somebody told me you have to make x10 rent so we have to get to
$60,000.” Everything started to become more and more and more. Then at some point
you get bored and wonder what it all means.
I do have a certain amount of success and wealth so I wonder what it all means. Then I
wonder what I am working toward now. I am giving paychecks to 30 people in my
company now and they can live and provide for their families. Isn’t this cool? Then how
can we improve their lives? How can we make the company culture better?
Then it becomes, “How can we affect more lives? How do we get the message out on a
broader scheme?” And then it becomes all about you and I donating money to She’s the
First. How can we help other charities? How can we help other companies?
It’s a long-winded answer to your question, but I think evolution is constantly shifting
and I think that’s what keeps it exciting and keeps us growing.
Todd: It’s a great answer because it’s nuanced. That’s exactly what I think life is. It’s so
nuanced. When people stand and say, “Success is all about this one thing,” I’m like, “No
it’s not. It’s anecdotal.” It’s probably because that may be what you think got you there,
but you’re exactly right. Your first day was all about just wanting to get some frickin’
money in your bank account.
I think that’s really important for people to hear. There are so many people out there
reading all of these purpose books and how to find your “why.” I’m like, “No, don’t find
your why.” Get some money in your frickin’ bank account and let that little snowball
evolve. Then from that you might find out what you are doing isn’t what you want to be
doing but at least you found that out.
You can’t find that out without taking action. You can’t find that out by sitting on a couch.
Angela: Let’s talk about that for a second. I am one that really believes in how you do
the small things is how you do the big things. I think finding your “why” is a question
that actually is important to evaluate even at the very beginning of your business. I call
it the source.
If you are cut off from that source, I think an interesting way to look at it, a perspective,
would be that it’s an always evolving “why”. If you say to yourself, “I don’t care what my
why is,” and you are building, building, building, then you are just cutting yourself off
from a really big, important piece of source. It’s going to become a habit and that’s why
I think figuring out what your “why” is, but not being married to that for so long and
allowing it to grow and breathe is really important, because all you do is become that
Asian kid who is running to win that next competition.
I feel that if I weren’t to get really plugged in to why I’m even doing something, it leads
to burnout. It leads to a lot of unhappiness.
Todd: I get that. But I think everyone has kind of created the umbrella that goes over
everyone’s head and said that the question on the umbrella is “why?” I disagree with
that. I think the umbrella that is hanging over us is our values. Our values are very
different than the “why.”
Angela: Let me think about that.
Todd: I think if you adhere to the values of what is important to you, you will have
multiple “whys.” I think asking yourself the question, “What’s my why” is such a narrow
focus for many people. I’ve talked to these people and I know the struggle they have.
But it’s such a narrow focus and I think we are nuanced.
Many people have many interests and to kind of govern it underneath one “why” is
difficult. But I think your values, like, “I value family, I value continuous growth, I value
exploration and exciting experiences and adventure,” is very different than asking myself
my “why.”
Angela: But what about this…Something I think is very important, we’re talking about
very conscious companies, we’re not talking about someone who’s selling ball bearings,
I’m talking about a conscious company like Whole Foods, Eileen Fisher, I don’t know if
you’ve heard of this really cool company and if you haven’t you should totally look into
it, Zingerman’s…
Todd: Of course.
Angela: I think people get lit by certain things. That’s a difference between great and
good. To tell you what I mean by that, I’ll give you a personal story. When my dad passed
away my mom sort of fell into a very understandable functioning depression. She had
three girls that she had to bring up on her own. She was Korean, she didn’t speak English
well. We were living in the middle of Ames, Iowa.
I remember her not being able to cope with the surmounting amount of bills. I was 13 at
the time and felt so much pressure as if it fell on my shoulders. I started a business for
her called Decadent Delights. The whole idea would be that she would bake cookies and
deliver them to all of the cafes in Ames, Iowa.
To me, that would solve the problem and once I left for college she could still take care
of my two younger sisters. I will never forget, when I baked all night and we sold cookies
to some bakery, my mom looked at me and said, “You’ve just raised my electricity bill
now,” and she went back to bed.
I’m sure Todd, if you look back in your life, and I’m sure everyone who’s listening can
look back on their life, we have the pivotal moments where something happens and it
just hits you at your gut. To me that is why I do what I do today. That’s why having just
a cosmetic company is not enough for me. If I just focused on selling the creams, I would
be like I was cutting myself off. My soul would be cut off.
Maybe it’s because I was a concert pianist all my life. I spent my time providing beautiful
music for audiences around the world and that was such a high endeavor for me. My life
had such a three-dimensional meaning and I cannot run business just to run business.
There has to be a deeper reason or else I’m going to run my fuel dry.
That thing is very important because that fuels the reason why I’m doing what I’m doing
today. Even that kind of awareness of the circumstances that happened in our lives…what
does it mean and how can I fuel my business and my life’s work to satisfy something that
happened to me that really touches me at my core and gets my passion running. It’s that
extra blood that is coursing through your veins that means something more versus a
person who is just sitting in the Chase Bank hating his or her life and doing whatever for
the sake of whatever.
It is just an awareness and consciousness of understanding the things that have
happened to us and why it happens to us. I’m not saying you have to be super sentimental
about it. I’m not saying you have to make your whole life go around that why. But it does
give my life an extra meaning that keeps me going when the shit hits the fan.
Trust me, the shit hits the fan a lot.
Todd: Totally. Honestly, it hits the fan more than it ever doesn’t, actually. But I have to
make the distinction. You are discussing that now and what I’m trying to reference for
people is that often times we don’t have the “why” at the very beginning. We’re just
trying to take a bunch of action because business, and the idea of our business or product
or service, needs to come face to face with the customer and the market.
Sometimes they will help us pivot. If you’re so driven and done all this work on your
“why” and you’ve built a product and service around it but no one wants it, you’ve wasted
a lot of time because I really want people who are just taking a bunch of action in the
beginning trying to find answers. Then, like Steve Jobs and Wozniak, their “why” evolved.
He wanted things to be beautiful. It didn’t start out that way at the beginning.
Angela: Right.
Todd: You bring up a great point. Often times, the elements of why we are doing things
stems back to our story.
Angela: Totally. And it gives it real meaning. I think it’s a difference between a
conscience company and one that’s not. I am a big proponent, I don’t think you should
spend years and years trying to figure out your “why.” Then you sit there and that’s all
you do and that’s ridiculous.
I do think if you come from that very grounded place of what you are doing, I think your
“why” and values, I’m calling it your Raison d’Etre, all this stuff; I think we all come from
the same place. I think we all agree that, you're calling it your values, I'm calling it Raison
d'Etre, Simon Sinek calls it his “why” - whatever. I think what we’re trying to do is get
people to think a little bit deeper and to use their businesses to do something good.
Because, you know what? That’s the beginning of sales. I agree with you - I think action
is so important. Collecting data is so important. That’s what I did in those first days, it
was just making the sale. But I was taking something good I created in my cream and I
believed in it. I really believed in it.
At the time, my “why” was that it would help your skin. It helped my skin, this will help
your skin. At the time there weren’t a lot of eco companies, five years ago. This was a
new thing. Sexy Green has arrived. That was my “why” at the time.
I think that helps you through the sales cycle because that becomes a bigger reason why
the customer needs it in their life. Then suddenly that’s what helps you get through the
humiliation. Frankly, what you said is so right, you have to actually go out there and fall
on your face and you’ve got to gain the experience. Success was born out of rejection.
You’ve got to get through a lot of rejections. You’ve got to get tough to it. You’ve got to
develop a thick skin. If you can’t do rejection now, trust me, you’re not going to be able
to build a business. You’ve got to get a tough skin.
Todd: If there is a mantra that I’m always repeating to people, it’s that exact thing
constantly. Some of it is born out of the fact that it’s confirmation bias a little bit. I’ve
been on the podium talking about mental toughness and resiliency and adaptability and
flexibility for almost 20 years now.
Working with ultra-high performers, those people that are at the Olympic level, everyone
has this story about Olympians that is not true. They don’t get paid anything to do their
sport, for one thing. So, they have to work full-time jobs while they are also putting in,
often times, eight hours of training in a day. That’s 16 hours and an athlete needs sleep.
Even your level, to get to be a world-class concert pianist, it wasn’t because you put in a
9-5, not even flipping close.
Angela: Are you kidding me? That’s a huge disconnect for me. Actually, that’s been my
biggest thing with employees. I just don’t understand this 9-5 mentality. I just don’t get
it.
Todd: This is perfect.
Angela: But I want to talk about Olympic athletes with you because I have studied.
Because I was a pianist and performed under pressure at peak performance, I’m very
highly interested in that topic. So, please promise me you’ll go back to that. I’ve studied
Olympic athletes and I just think mental visualization, all of that stuff is so delicious. We
have to come back to it.
Todd: We will. I’m just going to say, I find it fascinating, and I agree, I don’t understand
the 9-5. Yet, you are saying savor the success. How do you balance that?
Angela: People misunderstand what I mean by that. I have one person who was working
with me and she would say she needed to savor life. But she was failing at the job. In
essence she was a salesperson. I told her she had to get to the success in order to savor
the success.
I’m not talking about 9-5. I’m not about work/life balance. I’m more about work/life
integration and taking the moments to savor being fully present during those times. I’ve
worked really hard. You know when you work hard and you go through a workout and
you have climbed the hill (my husband likes to hike) and you go up the hike, then you
savor the success. Doesn’t that feel amazing versus sitting on the couch eating potatoes
or not doing your best or not achieving something you are proud of? Your “savor the
success” moment is a little bit more limp.
I don’t know if that explains it, but…
Todd: I’ve got it. It all makes sense in my head.
Angela: I believe that, of course, you need work/life balance. But what does that mean?
I don’t understand what that word means, balance. It’s just, are you on fire or are you
not? Just be on fire about your life.
Todd: We are so kindred spirits because I actually can’t stand the word balance. I’m all
for having another buddy in that group. We can go back to the Olympic stuff. What did
you want to talk about there?
Angela: I just want to talk about how Olympic athletes, the whole thing about training
and getting to the peak performance, how that is such a parallel to entrepreneurship,
don’t you think?
Todd: Totally. In fact, there are multiple studies on it as well on how the athletic mind
and the entrepreneurial mind overlap almost perfectly.
Angela: What do you think are the success factors that you can link between Olympic
athletes and successful entrepreneurs?
Todd: It’s a high threshold for risk. I think this is actually a bit of a myth with a lot of
entrepreneurs, everyone says that entrepreneurs take big risks. That’s a really dangerous
thing to tell people. I was listening to Daymond John who is on Shark Tank. He was doing
a speech once and he was talking about the same thing. He said, “I take good calculated
risks.”
That is an important distinction between calculated risks and big risks where you lose
everything. There might be moments where you might have to do that. It happened to
me. I did lose everything at one point in time. But the ability to take risks is a big thing
between the two, that is a big hallmark between them.
By that, I mean they are willing to risk looking strange or different to other people.
Olympians say “no” to a lot of social things that other people would be saying “yes” to
and entrepreneurs…I hate putting entrepreneurs in general up on a pedestal because I
don’t think everyone belongs there. Entrepreneurs are great at starting and we need
team members and partners to help finish the things we start so it’s a flip of the exact
same coin.
They both value risks and aren’t afraid to stand out. They both have high tolerance for
emotional highs and lows. They have a really big tolerance for emotional highs and lows.
That is one of the big hallmarks. They can live at the bottom of the ocean where it’s very
dark, alone, and cold. They can feel alone at many times.
That’s where this linkage between depression and entrepreneurship starts to come in. I
think it’s actually not depression. I think it’s just the description of people’s experiences
and them thinking there is something wrong with them because they are feeling this way.
I’m telling them it’s because they have the capacity to feel this.
Just because you are feeling this doesn’t mean you’re depressed. I think you have the
capacity to handle it. That’s why you are able to do really tough things. That doesn’t
mean I want to keep you there. I’m just saying that you do have the capacity. Your
rubber band’s emotional elasticity is just way higher. You’re not afraid to go to the edges.
I think that’s a really big one.
Olympians and successful entrepreneurs have a constant focus on improvement. That is
a hallmark, constant focus on growth and improvement is a big thing between the people
who really win at it, and I don’t mean people who stand on the podiums and get the gold
medals, I mean the people who enjoy their sport, enjoy the process of all the hard work
they have to do, they are just focused on the little things, slight little tweaks.
Angela: Micro growth. That leads to so much, especially when you’re at a very high level
of growth. A micro adjustment can be the difference between an amazing performance
and not.
Todd: Even you, just arranging your hands at a slightly higher point above the keys could
make a difference between you hitting the key and not hitting the key.
Angela: Totally. And if your thumb is a little tight you loosen your thumb a bit, make
your tongue relax. That is the difference between getting it or not.
Todd: It is so funny that you said the tongue because one of the things I started out in
sports, what I got known for originally and what I branded myself as, I know the biological
process for getting someone into the zone and flow state and having a relaxed jaw and
relaxed tongue is one of the hallmarks. You have to have that.
Angela: Totally. You know, that’s so cool because when I am studying Olympic athletes
one thing is the peak performance book. I don’t know if you know that one, but why are
the Russian athletes always able to perform under pressure and the American athletes
are not? There was a study and they use heavy relaxation techniques and visualization
techniques.
I did that whole program and I loved it. Every time I visualized two weeks before a
performance it was 1,000% better than if I actually practiced six hours a day. The one
thing is finding anchor moments that will anchor you in the moments of tough pressure
so I would always say to myself, “tongue.”
You have so many muscles in your tongue and immediate relaxation of the tongue relaxed
the eyeballs, which would release the stress, would release your neck, you jaw, and when
you are relaxed you do so much better.
Todd: Remember, in practice you are typically more relaxed so your muscle memory is
coinciding with the relaxed state. The moment you have the tension and stress your
muscles tighten up. Now you don’t have the flexibility that you used to have. That is a
total micro change. That, in and of itself, is a good example of making a micro change
having a big effect on the performance someone has.
Angela: And I think if we link it back to business, I think space is very important in
business to get to that relaxed state. So don’t have that heated conversation with your
employee when you’re upset. Take the moment because that’s not going to bring out the
best in either of you.
I think where Olympic athlete high performers have an instant moment where they need
to change something, entrepreneurs are more like marathon runners. It’s about
endurance. It’s the long haul.
Todd: Yet everyone is telling us it’s typically about the sprint itself. I am the person who
teaches the value of breaking things down into 90-day years and establishing a theme
for that 90 days. But, more often than not, it’s linked to some big, grander vision beyond
that, unless you’re in start-up mode.
In start-up mode you are just trying to figure things out.
Angela: Yeah, and test it out. That’s a way we have a lot in common.
Todd: Totally. This is such a great interview, Angela, by the way. I could talk to you
forever about this stuff. I am cognizant of time and I always ask people what I call the
final five questions. They are completely random. But, what TV show are you watching
right now that you’re obsessed with?
Angela: Oh my god, really? This is going to sound so terrible. There is a show in London
that I’m so obsessed with. I am so embarrassed. I am really embarrassed, but I’m just
going to tell you, just don’t tell anyone. It’s called, “Ladies of London.” I like it because
they are successful business women and they are just so cheeky and appalling. It is just
interesting to see a different culture.
Todd: What station is it on?
Angela: I think it’s Bravo. It is my mental candy.
Todd: Who is someone that you’ve met recently that inspired you?
Angela: There is a guy named Todd Herman.
Todd: You’re a peach.
Angela: You. I loved meeting the first founder, Tammy Tibbetts, you met her at the
Rock the World conference I just gave in October. I loved meeting Alexandra Wilson from
Gilt. I loved meeting Katrina Markoff, the founder of Vosges Chocolate. What is interesting
about Rock the World is that we don’t pay anyone to speak. They come because they
believe in women entrepreneurship. Women who are giving back just because they want
to help other women always inspire me.
Todd: It was such a well put together conference as well, so kudos. What do you wish
you were better at saying “no” to?
Angela: I think employee drama. I think I try to get in there and think about the personal
growth of everyone. They just need to worry about their personal growth and get back
to work.
Todd: Fair enough.
Angela: I need to get better at saying no to that.
Todd: What do you love about where you live?
Angela: I love my view. I have an amazing kick-ass view of the city. It’s my Prozac. I
love it.
Todd: What street are you on?
Angela: I’m on 97th and Columbus.
Todd: Okay. We’re on 96th.
Angela: I thought you moved downtown.
Todd: That was where we moved from. We were up there at 96th and Columbus and
now we are down here in Chelsea.
Angela: And I live on top of a Whole Foods so that makes me very happy.
Todd: That’s so funny because we lived in that building. Anyway, not to bore the
listeners…If you could have personally witnessed anything, what would you want to have
seen?
Angela: Martin Luther King’s speech, I Have a Dream.
Todd: Good one.
Angela: I love that.
Todd: Front row, of course. You wouldn’t be in the back. You would be in the front.
Angela: Yeah, I’d be up front carrying the torch with him. That’s amazing, I have a
dream.
Todd: That’s fantastic. Listen Angela, like I said, I could talk to you for hours. You’ve got
such a phenomenal energy. Where can people go to connect with you, Savor the Success,
and all that kind of stuff?
Angela: Savorthesuccess.com; and for skin care, omaroma.com; and just tweet me
@SavorTheSuccess.
Todd: Perfect. We’ll have all the links, of course, on the blog for this as well. Here’s what
I absolutely know will be a fact, I’m going to have people tweeting at us to get you back
on to do another interview because we’ve left a lot underneath the rocks that we could
have lifted up and picked at and taken a look at.
Angela: Anything for you, and likewise, I had a great time talking.
Todd: Cheers! Thank you so much, Angela.
Angela: Bye.
Todd: Bye bye.
That was one of the best interviews we’ve had on the show so far. I know we’re going to
have to bring Angela back for even more. She’s a total winner. Now, if you haven’t
already, don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes. Just type in Grit ‘n’ Hustle in
the search and click the subscribe button. All the show notes, tips, links shared, and the
transcript are over at the blog at http://toddherman.me/episode20.
We have great social media stuff already and prepped for you to share over there. When
you do, just tag me @Todd_Herman and @SavorTheSuccess as well. There is a private
community on Facebook where more discussion happens behind the scenes, access to
myself, and requests for show guests occurs. Just type in toddherman.me/group in your
browser and you’ll be directed straight over to the community.
Alright my friend, let’s wrap this up and get you back into your day. Remember, there’s
no easy road, there’s no elevator to the top and there’s always a back story of Grit ‘n’
Hustle to any great achiever. Go out there and live a story worth being talked about. I’m
your host, Todd Herman, and I am signing off!
Show notes at: http://bit.ly/KimGrit
Links mentioned in this episode:
The Grit ‘n’ Hustle Blog
Om Aroma & Co
Savor Spa
Savor the Success
Savor Life magazine
Rock The World Conference
Angela on Twitter
Todd on Twitter
Grit ‘n’ Hustle Facebook Group
Also mentioned:
Kiehl’s
Estee Lauder
Bryant Park
Simon Sinek
She’s the First
Whole Foods
Eileen Fisher
Zingerman’s
Ladies of London
Tammy Tibbetts
Alexandra Wilson
Katrina Markoff
Vosges Chocolate