Download pdf - CPUC PPH San Clemente Transcript

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIASAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION

OF THE

STATE OF CALIFORNIA

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE AMY YIP-KIKUGAWA, presiding

Application of Pacific Gas andElectric Company for Approval ofModifications to its SmartMeter™Program and Increased RevenueRequirements to Recover the Costs ofthe Modifications. (U39M)

And Related Matters.

))))))))))

EVIDENTIARYHEARING

Application11-03-014;A.11-03-015;A.11-07-020

REPORTERS' TRANSCRIPTSan Clemente, California

December 18, 2012Pages 904 - 981

Volume - 9

Reported by: Ana M. Gonzalez, CSR No. 11320Michael J. Shintaku, CSR No. 8251

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STATEMENTS

MR. JINBACHIAN 911

MS. HOFFMAN 914

MS. DUELKE 916

MS. LUBBRES 917

MS. RAWLINS 919

MS. SHELDON 921

MR. SCHWAEBE 923

MS. BRINCHMAN 925

MS. BEARD 927

MR. FRANK 928

MR. FRANCIS 930

MR. HOLTZMAN 931

MS. BERCICH 933

MR. DONOVAN 935

MS. MYCENA 937

MS. LEWIS 939

MS. TAAR 940

MS. HOMAN 942

MR. SAVILL 944

MR. BERECZKY 947

MR. WILSON 948

MR. BLACK 951

MR. CORRIGAN 952

MS. SCHLICHT 954

MR. STEWART 956

MS. RAMSEY 958

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906

MS. GEERLINGS 959

MS. LINSKY 962

MR. SCHALLER 962

MS. PLOURDE 964

MR. TYLER 965

MR. MASON 967

MR. SMITH 968

MS. MALLON 970

MR. MAYALL 971

MS. ANDERSON 972

MR. McCULLOH 974

MS. PERATA 977

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907

SAN CLEMENTE, CALIFORNIA

DECEMBER 18, 2012 - 6:00 P.M.

* * * * *

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE YIP-KIKUGAWA:

We'll be on the record.

The Commission will come to order.

This is the time and place set for the

Commission for the Public Participation

Hearing in Applications 11-03-014, 11-03-015,

and 11-07-020 addressing cost and cost

allocation issues related to providing an

option for gas and electric utility

residential customers who do not wish to have

wireless smart meters installed in their

location.

And good evening, everyone. I am

Administrative Law Judge Amy Yip-Kikugawa.

The assigned commissioner for this proceeding

is President Michael Peevey.

And to start off with, a Public

Participation is exactly what the name

suggests. I'm here to hear from all of you.

I do want to hear your comments. And if you

do wish to speak, you should have signed up

with the Public Advisor's Office in the back.

If you haven't done so, please do so now.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I don't

understand.

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908

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Okay. So I will be

calling for you to make a statement. We will

have everyone who has signed up will have an

opportunity to speak.

A couple housekeeping matters before

we begin. I do have two reporters here

today. They will be taking down everything

and preparing a transcript. That transcript

will be given to the commissioners. And they

will be reading it.

So I do ask that when you are called

up to please speak slowly and clearly into

the microphone. Please as audience members

do not interrupt the speaker. It's very

difficult for our reporters to get an

accurate record if there's a lot of

background comments from people as the

speaker is speaking.

This hearing is scheduled to last

for two hours. And each speaker is going to

have two minutes to speak. We will also be

taking a short break about halfway through.

And, again, please be sure all of you who

wish to make a comment will have an

opportunity to do so.

And, again, since this is a Public

Participation Hearing and to hear comments

from all of you, there are no questions and

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909

answers. I'm not here to answer any

questions that you may have. It's really I

want to hear from all of you.

So just a little background on how a

decision will be made in this proceeding and

what the process is. For the three

utilities -- Pacific Gas & Electric Company,

Southern California Edison Company, and

San Diego Gas and Electric Company -- they

were ordered earlier this year by the

Commission to modify their advanced metering

infrastructure programs to include an option

for customers who did not wish to have a

wireless smart meter.

As part of that order, there were

interim fees that were adopted. And a second

phase was kicked off to consider what the

permanent fees should be and also what costs

should be recovered from the utilities.

So that is where we are today. For

Southern California Gas Company, they do not

have an opt-out option for their advanced

metering program yet. That is something that

is currently pending before the Commission.

A decision will be issued on that in the near

future.

The utility, however, SoCalGas, is

participating in this proceeding. And we're

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910

also as part of phase two looking at

SoCalGas's cost and cost allocation issues.

In terms of how a decision is going

to be made, we have had evidentiary hearings

in this proceeding already. For utilities as

well as various consumer groups have

submitted testimony. We have had the

witnesses subject to cross-examination. And

the evidentiary hearings have been concluded.

And we are now also going to be receiving

briefs from all parties.

And when I talk about the consumer

groups, that includes the Commission's own

Division of Rate Payer Advocates as well as

outside consumer groups such as The Utility

Reform Network and Aglet Consumer Alliance.

The briefs and the evidentiary

hearing testimony from the evidentiary

hearings -- that makes up part of the record.

Another part that we do consider is public

input. And that is what we're here for

today, is to hear from all of you.

When I conclude all the information

that is submitted to me, when the briefs are

filed, I will be looking at the evidence. I

will be preparing a proposed decision for the

Commission to consider.

The commissioners may vote out my

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911

decision. Or if one of the commissioners

wishes to have an alternate outcome, they can

provide -- they can write what's called an

alternate proposed decision. Whatever

decision is voted out by the Commission is

the final say.

So that's the process that we have.

And before we go into public comment, what

I'd like to do is just make a few quick

introductions. And first is to my right is

Varoujan Jinbachian, who is from our Public

Advisor's Office. And I'd like him just to

give a couple words about what the Public

Advisor's Office does.

STATEMENT OF MR. JINBACHIAN

MR. JINBACHIAN: Thank you, your Honor.

Good evening and welcome. My name

is Varoujan Jinbachian. I'm with the Public

Utilities Commission with the Public

Advisor's Office. Our office helps the

public to participate in PUC proceedings. We

facilitate hearings such as this. And our

staff was outside signing up speakers.

In addition to making verbal

comments here today, you could also send us

written comments. We have our agenda

outside. And I know a lot of you were

picking them up. On the backside of the

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912

agenda, there's our contact information, both

our mailing address and email address. If

you send us any comments, we'll route them to

the judge and also to the offices of the

commissioners so they will see your written

comments.

We also have a free subscription

service where you can sign up electronically

and you will receive updates on this

proceeding or any other proceeding. Again,

on the back of the agenda, there is a link

for the subscription service. You could just

follow the link, and you could enter this

proceeding number to get updates.

If you have any questions, please

see our staff outside, or you could talk to

me after the hearing and we'll try to help

you as best as we can. Thank you and

welcome.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: For the other

introductions, what I would like to do is

introduce you to individuals that are from

the various utility smart meter programs.

And they are available to answer any

questions that you may have about the opt-out

costs or their proposals after the hearing.

Or you can just step outside during the

hearing if you wish to speak to them.

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And if I could have Mr. Cave from

San Diego Gas and Electric Company just wave

and identify yourself, okay. We also have

Mr. Nicolatte (phonetic) from Southern

California Edison Company. And we also have

Mr. Healy from Southern California Gas

Company. So those individuals you may speak

with them after the hearing.

We also have outside in the entrance

area representatives -- customer service

representatives from the three utilities.

And they can help you with customer billing

information that you may have or even if you

wish to sign up for the opt-out program. So

if you wish to do either of that, you may

also go out into the entry area and speak

with them.

Okay. I'd like to just proceed with

the public comment period. When I call your

name, please come up. I'll be calling two

names at a time so that we can move a little

faster.

The other thing is we do have a

timer here. She will be our timekeeper.

There's two minutes. And she will give a

warning at the one-minute mark, and she will

also note when the time is up.

Off the record.

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(Off the record)

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Back on the record.

One other thing before we proceed is

there is a request that all cell phones also

be turned off at this point. So if you do

have a cell phone on, please turn that off.

Okay. So let's begin with our

public comment period. We have first Cindy

Hoffman followed by Ann Duelke.

STATEMENT OF MS. HOFFMAN

MS. HOFFMAN: Wireless technology is

efficient, cheap, and it's fun. I don't want

wireless technology to be dangerous to our

health. But after reading the many

independent research studies, I don't see how

anyone can honestly come to any other

conclusion but that wireless causes illness.

All wireless devices emit radiation

which builds up in the body over time. It's

called time-weighted. The FCC states that

wireless devices are safe on a thermal basis

because the radiation they emit is too weak

to thermally heat our tissue.

Industry and the utilities hang

their hat on this. They blatantly ignore the

nonindustry research that shows serious

damage from a nonthermal biological effects

at a cellular level.

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915

Everybody's different. But when

your radiation bucket's full, you get sick.

It may take 10, 20, 30 years. But how fast

did your last 20 years go?

Smart meters emit radiation every 20

to 30 seconds every hour every day. I know

this because I don't own a meter. And I've

metered many of these. As a consumer, you

are powerless to stop it unless you pay for a

safer meter.

I've talked to folks in apartments

with banged up meters on the wall. And

they're despairing because they might opt out

but the other four, five, six, ten are still

there.

I talked to business owners. They

don't understand. They've opted out of their

residence. But they can't opt out of their

business? Doesn't make sense.

I've talked to many folks who don't

want a smart meter. And they can't afford

the opt-out already. To charge more is

unconscionable.

The CPUC's mission statement states

"The CPUC serves the public interest by

protecting the consumer and ensuring the

provision of safe, reliable utility

services." I don't think the CPUC is meeting

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their own mission statement. Most people are

here tonight because they're taking on the

job to protect the people that the CPUC

should be doing.

We implore you please recommend

approval for community opt-out, business

opt-outs, and no increase in the opt-out

fees. Or, better yet, let anyone who wants

to opt out do so at no cost. That would be

the moral and a just decision for the people

of California.

(Applause)

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Ann Duelke followed by Marie

Lubbres.

STATEMENT OF MS. DUELKE

MS. DUELKE: Hi. My daughter has

lustemic (phonetic) Lyme disease. She was

doing much better until October of last year

when six smart meters were installed in her

unit in Turtle Rock Condo.

At that time, her health

deteriorated rapidly. She became extremely

dizzy. She's had two MRIs. They're

perfectly fine. Everything is fine on the

MRI. But her eyes were so heavy during the

month that these smart meters were installed

that she couldn't see straight. She had to

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keep other eyes closed. I had to take care

of her during that week.

She has weakness in her arms since

October when they were installed. She walks

with a shuffling gait at times. She's had

nausea, headaches, insomnia -- a gamut of

neurological symptoms. I'm a nurse. And I

started to research what the damage from

these smart meters could do. And she did,

also.

My daughter is going to be forced to

relocate because of the neurological symptoms

she still has off and on. And, frankly,

after I read the literature, I had my smart

meter removed from our home. So I hope the

powers that be will take this into

consideration.


Marie Lubbres followed by Sharon

Rawlins.

STATEMENT OF MS. LUBBRES

MS. LUBBRES: I'm a nursing resident.

I opted out of the smart meter program out of

concern for my health. I have to pay $195 a

year in addition to my electricity bill. I

strongly object to these fees. I consider it

as unlawful to ask opt-out people to pay when

opting out when the federal government never

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made smart meters mandatory.

CPUC Code Section 745(d) says

residential customers have the option to not

receive service pursuant to time-variant

pricing and incur no additional charges as a

result of the exercise of that option. It

appears then that making people pay for

opting out is a violation of the law.

The electricity company pretends

that the opt-out people costs them money, but

we actually save money and energy. The

traditional meter has a longer lifespan than

the smart meter and uses less electricity to

function.

Connecticut has asked to terminate

its smart meter program after a pilot study

showed that there were no energy saving.

Many families' electricity bill is extremely

low. We do not need a smart meter to know

how to keep our energy consumption low.

People can be educated about that. They

don't have to be forced into an unhealthy

system.

I want no special fee for opting

out. I'm not prepared to bear additional fee

next year. I demand that the opt-out option

should be extended to local governments and

communities and that business should be

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allowed also to opt out. Besides it's very

discriminatory if you have to pay to opt out

because some people cannot afford it. That's

it.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. ]

Sharon Rawlins followed by Dorothy

Sheldon.

STATEMENT OF MS. RAWLINS

MS. RAWLINS: I'm not going to talk

about the meter itself, because I don't have

one. I'm going to talk about how aggressive

the electric company has been to come into my

property and force them on me.

I had to call the police finally.

The first time they came into my backyard, my

backyard is fully fenced with locks on them.

They come early in the morning. They come in

your backyard. They pound on your windows

and wake you up, and I'm in the bathroom in

my robe. I come out, and I look to see who

is in my backyard, and he ran away and

disappeared on -- a gate we didn't have a

lock on. I didn't know who it was. So I

called the electric company they said nobody

was sent to your house, which was a lie.

Anyway, they came again later. And

they squeezed through a gate that we had a

fifth wheel pushed up against and broke the

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gate because the pushed it in backwards. And

I did hear him, and he pounded on my window

again, woke me up out of a dead sleep, scared

me. And I went out and I saw him taking the

glass off my meter. I told him to stop. I

was calling the police. He was behind the

locked gates in my property. The police came

and told him he had to leave. He said my

name was on a list for him to come and change

the meter. And I told him no, I don't want

my meter changed. They have been very

forceful.

Then they sent me a letter a week

and a half ago saying thank you for joining

the opt-out program. I never joined the

opt-out program either verbally or in

writing. And the whole letter was nothing

but lies. And I wrote back to them and told

them that I did not join verbally or in

writing. I just mailed that yesterday.

So they've been extremely aggressive

to me the whole way. And trying to force

this on me and breaking into my yard and

saying that they weren't sent. And it is

just has been ridiculous and scaring you

early in the morning coming and your

property. So that is about all.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Dorothy

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Sheldon followed by Michael Schwaebe.

STATEMENT OF MS. SHELDON

MS. SHELDON: Why were these smart

meters deployed without customer consent.

Increased fees, unjust, and punitive,

arbitrary, and unreasonable which violates

the California Public Utilities Code 451.

What is the price of our families'

health, safety and privacy? This infringes

our constitutional privacy and property

rights. It is wrong to charge extra rate

increases for customers to choose the

healthful, analogue electric meters. Isn't

this called legalized thievery?

I did not want a smart meter on my

home. Both my husband and I have pacemakers

that are affected by radiofrequency

radiation. My doctor warned both of us to

use cell phones with care. We have been

extra cautious to keep away from radiation

from all sources such as WiFi, cell phones,

et cetera.

As a senior citizen living on a

fixed income, we do not have the luxury in

our budget to spend hundreds of dollars to

maintain this opt-out program. Why are we

being forced to spend our precious little

funds of protecting our health from these

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smart meters. The analogue meter that is

currently on my home works just fine. By

billing me for a meter a higher rate than

those without my disability, some would call

this discrimination. My husband and I are

forced to pay higher rates due to our

disability. Unjust and illegal. Everyone

should pay the same.

It is criminal that a United Nations

request, not a U.S. federal mandate, has

forced all homes in a America to get the new

smart meters which are hazardous to our

health, an invasion of privacy, and can be

hacked. This has been stealthily done.

People were given no prior

information that the new meter causes health

problems. There was no information about

radiofrequency microwave emissions every six

to seconds, eight to 10 times a minute,

14,000 times a day, 24/7. How can all these

RF signals not destroy our health? People

will be sick and will not know it, will not

know why. There will be an increase of

childhood leukemia. This will destroy our

health at the cellular level. This is

dangerous, invasive, expensive. What we are

doing to people should not be done? It is

not just health, but our bills will go up

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four or five times higher than it has been

shown already.

This is disaster killing by smart

meters. NASA published a 1984 report.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Ma'am, you need to

end.

MS. SHELDON: Okay. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Michael Schwaebe

followed by Susan Brinchman.

STATEMENT OF MR. SCHWAEBE

MR. SCHWAEBE: My name is Michael

Schwaebe. I'm a professional engineer.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Microscope,

please.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Microphone.

MR. SCHWAEBE: My name is Michael

Schwaebe. I'm a professional engineer. I'm

from Encinitas, California where I've resided

for more than 30 years.

I worked for Southern California

Edison in the San Onofre Nuclear Generating

Station for more than 20 years. There I had

a head bump. I hurt my head. From that

point more than 15 years ago I became

environmentally sensitive, that includes

electric.

And it took a long time to figure

out my life, and I did. And it caused me to

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924

learn about electric and how it affects me,

how to measure it. The smart meters affect

me. I wasn't home, I was away when the smart

meters were installed. I would have never

given permission. The smart meter is gone

now, but I had to live with it for more than

a year. It hurts my head. It hurts a lot of

people's heads.

So if we look at the smart meter, if

you look at the whole radiation industry, it

looks like they've never been proven safe.

They have never been proven safe. The smart

meter never had an environmental impact study

and said it was safe. I consider it to be a

criminal nuisance. And everyone should have

a right not to have a meter at no cost to

them.

Here I have a book, it is called

Cellular Telephone Russian Roulette by Robert

Kane. He worked in the industry for 30

years. He died of brain cancer. And he

writes in here that the microwave was known

to be a health hazard, and known to cause

cancer four years ago. So this is what we

are up against, long-term health and

neurological consequences.

I urge you to represent this and the

others in just this way of like it is not

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925

right. We need to have the options without

fees. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Susan Brinchman

followed by Sarah Beard.

STATEMENT OF MS. BRINCHMAN

MS. BRINCHMAN: Hi. My name is Susan

Brinchman. I live in La Mesa, California.

And I'm here representing myself and also a

party to the opt-out proceedings, but I'm not

representing my organization, the Center for

Electrosmog Prevention at this time.

I'm a person who has been profoundly

affected by the smart meters. Before the

smart meters were put on my property I had a

gas smart meter and an electric smart meter.

Before they were put on my property where

they remained for two years, I had no

symptoms of electrosensitivity. I didn't

even really know what that was. And I was

able to use other devices without any problem

problems that I could detect, such as cell

phones or computers or, you know, microwave

ovens, et cetera.

Now since the smart meter was put on

my home, within six months I became sensitive

to cell phone radiation to, computer emitted

radiation, to any form or RF radiation that

is in a microwave range. I cannot use

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926

microwaves anymore.

It has completely disrupted my life.

They gave me headaches dizziness, heart

palpitations. I listed 15 different symptoms

that came from the smart meters. Now I can't

be on WiFi. All the buildings have WiFi now.

So it ruined my health and my life. The

quality of life is destroyed.

Also a company can save money on

meter meters and gouge us. I want no fees.

I think anyone who wants to get rid of this

disastrous device until they are all banned.

I think they should be all banned. I think

they should not pay a dime. Not one.

(Applause)

MS. BRINCHMAN: They should be removed

immediately. It is a menace to public

health.

And Judge Kikugawa, you can do

something about this. I ask as a mother, you

are a mother, you wouldn't want your children

to end up like I am. And believe me, it can

happen to them. It can destroy their lives.

Children are more susceptible. Don't listen

to anyone except these people and make the

right decisions. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Sarah

Beard followed by Bill Frank.

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927

STATEMENT OF MS. BEARD

MS. BEARD: CPUC, do your job. Your

job is to protect, defend our God-given human

rights from privacy violators, safety

violators, health violators. Your job is --

the Legislature finds California Public

Utilities Code Section 328, no customer

should have to pay separate fees for

utilizing services that protect the public or

customer safety.

I cannot be charged money for a

benefit of exercising any of my God-given

human rights. Smart meters are not safe, not

healthy, not private. That threaten my life,

my liberty. As such, they are

unconstitutional. I never gave up any of my

rights, of any of those rights. It is my

duty and my right to defend my life, my

privacy, my safety, my health against smart

meters. As such, I should not be charged for

the benefit of exercising any of these

God-given human rights treating them as a

benefit.

The 9th and 10th Amendment of the

U.S. Constitution states, a certain rights

should not be construed to deny or retain --

others by the people. We never gave up any

of these rights. You can't take them away

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928

from us and charge us for them. That

is immoral.

I already gave this all to you. So

that is basically it. I hope you will judge

in the correct way and not judge like the

Supreme Court Judge as Dred Scott, blacks

can't be citizens. There has been a lot of

judges that have judged wrong. Follow your

own laws, protect the people. We are not

going to stand up to this. This is a joke.

It is sick, and we were not doing it. We

have the right to opt out for nothing. It is

our human rights.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Bill Frank followed

by Dave Francis.

STATEMENT OF MR. FRANK

MR. FRANK: I live in Santa Ana with my

wife. We purchased a home there about 18

years ago. And at that time I wasn't aware

of the fact that previous owners had

installed on the air conditioner some kind of

regulator that Edison put on where they could

control the electricity going to that air

conditioner.

So we ended up with -- during that

hot streak that we had like four days of

triple digit weather, my wife cannot handle

that kind of heat. The air conditioner

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929

worked fine like for the first day or two,

and the next day it would not come on.

So obviously I called the tech. The

tech came out and said you got this gadget on

there that Edison is controlling. They shut

the power off, so we had no air-conditioning.

I'm really afraid that the smart meter has

that capability to shut it off when it is

needed most, in our case for the

air-conditioning. That is wrong. We should

not be subject to that.

So I opted out of the program,

excuse me, I'm paying $195 a year for

something that was mandated, that I didn't

want, don't need, and I think it is illegal.

What gives the CPUC the right to force me to

pay money that I shouldn't have to pay? It

is extortion, pure and simple.

(Applause)

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The people don't

want it. The people don't need it. Listen

to the people.

MR. FRANK: The other thing we are

susceptible to is hackers, cyber hackers. It

is all over the world. I can be on the smart

meter too so some kid or the adult can shut

our power off, if they are smart enough to do

it. It can be done.

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930

It is wrong. I don't want to pay

the extra fee of $195 dollars a year. It

should be free. I didn't ask for it. I

don't want it. I don't want to have to pay

money for it. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Dave Francis

followed by Joe Holtzman.

STATEMENT OF MR. FRANCIS

MR. FRANCIS: It is my turn, Dave

Francis?

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Yes.

MR. FRANCIS: My name is Dave Francis.

I initially refused to have the

meters put on my house, mainly out of respect

and concern about the meter readers, being a

working guy myself. I've worked all my life

since I was a little kid. ]

And then I got started thinking

about it because of my last 20 years of

employment with the government, I realize

they could program our keycards to open since

9-11 for security.

From a building to three stories up

away, if it quit working on the doors in our

building, they could hit a few keys on a

keyboard to open another building. All of a

sudden my keycard worked. I thought holy

mackerel this thing can be remotely

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931

controlled.

And then I found out about the

health concerns. I went to couple meetings

with some of these people before, which I

kind of suspected. And it's kind of like

other things in my life I found out that the

more I find out and get knowledgeable of a

subject, I realize the more I really don't

know.

And these -- as some of these

people have pointed out, they can be -- thank

you. Little warning thing there -- they can

be hacked by these computer guys without a

doubt.

And health concerns are definitely

bad buggy. And also the fact that they can

be remotely shut off for whatever reason is

not good. Thank you.

(Applause)


Joe Holtzman followed by Gayle

Bercich.

STATEMENT OF MR. HOLTZMAN

MR. HOLTZMAN: Yeah, Joe Holtzman,

Mission Viejo. I'm a ham radio operator. I

have been since 1956. So I know the dangers

are RF. And I know the part 97 reads. And

it's much more restrictive than what they put

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932

on these meters. So there is a health issue.

I'm also a solar guy. And I've had

solar on my house for three years. And I'm

going to provide you this document. I've had

ten straight months where I provided excess

energy to the grid.

Why should I have to pay a monthly

fee to have my meter read? It's ridiculous.

There is a yearly true-up period when they

come out and they say okay, this is what you

owe us or what I am owed by Edison. Right

now I'm owed by Edison $236. Why should I

pay a monthly opt-out fee?

(Applause)

MR. HOLTZMAN: In addition, there's

some other things that I'd likes to go over.

It's an invasion of privacy. If you don't

think it's an invasion of privacy, when they

start selling the data that you're up at 2:30

in the morning maybe to go to the bathroom

and turn your lights on, you'll know about

it.

The health issues have been covered

tonight. And Cindy Sage has written

dissertations. And I got a copy of this in

here -- a report. And it defines it very

well.

There's no siting rights for an

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933

antenna on my property. It is an invasion.

I have written the CPUC on this, and I've got

nothing but nonsense back.

Now, in addition, there's firmware

problems in the present Edison meters. I

know this because there is a whole bevy of

people every day, every morning, leaving the

Holiday Inn at Lake Forest to go out and

change the meters. Here's a picture of the

trucks. I'm going to give this to you.

In addition, the health issues are

covered by the Sage report. And the people

talked about this. And I have measured them.

And it's measured in milliwatts per meter

squared. Okay. And I have taken measures

where their excess background is 0.003. When

you get up to 0.3, you've got problems. I've

seen where it's gone up to 1.7. That will

fry your brains. So I'm going to provide you

these details, and it's all in here all

specified. Thank you.

(Applause)


Gayle Bercich followed by Louis

Donovan.

STATEMENT OF MS. BERCICH

MS. BERCICH: Hi. I'm Gayle Bercich.

I live in a retirement community. And the

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934

houses were built in the 70s. And all of the

Edison meters are attached to bedroom walls.

I've had the smart reader for my neighbor

read inside my bedroom. And it spikes every

minute to the caution and danger zone. If a

smart meter were installed on my bedroom

wall, it would be six inches above my head.

I have written three letters to

Edison and CPU with suggestions for my

reading the meter on a monthly basis. I

could enter it on the website. I could email

it in. I could call it. I could mail a

form. They could read the meter on a

quarterly semiannual annual basis and then

mail me the difference or credit me.

They have never addressed --

answered or addressed my suggestion on any of

my repeated paragraphs in each letter

repeating their rights and comparisons of

their meter to my microwave and cell phone

usage. Excuse me. I choose when to use

those, and I don't sleep with either one of

them.

Now Edison wants to increase our

monthly fees. I feel this is an extortion.

The meter reading fees were always included

in our monthly rates.

If they are so desperate for

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935

revenue, they might take a look at the

salaries of their CEO, which is 11 million,

some of their high-paid executives. And what

happened to the money that they're gaining

from firing all the meter readers?

I respectfully request that they

discontinue any meter reading fees.

(Applause)


Louis Donovan followed by Myra

Mycena.

STATEMENT OF MR. DONOVAN

MR. DONOVAN: Your Honor, ladies and

gentlemen, my name is Louis Donovan. I'd

like to share with you my health and smart

meters. Smart meter radiation interfering

with my heart's electrical system.

Cardiac arrhythmia began after

electrical smart meter was installed on my

home alongside my bedroom window. I was

hospitalized with cardiac arrhythmia and

stabilized on 8-17-10 to 8-20-10.

Then eight months later, I was

hospitalized with cardiac arrhythmia again.

I was stabilized 4-23-11 to 4-26-11.

Angiogram performed on me found

unblockages in any arteries of the heart.

Defibrillator and pacemaker installed 4-26-11

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936

to 4-29-11.

Six months later, smart meter

stopped my heart completely. Defibrillator

shocked my heart back to life. Smart meter

turned off my defibrillator pacemaker.

Created arrhythmia again. Hospitalized.

Restabilized 10-26-11 to 10-20-11.

At this time, I was informed about

smart meter's effect on heart's electrical

system, cardiac arrhythmias and the smart

meter's effect on defibrillators pacemakers.

I moved from my bedroom to sleep in

the garage to get away from the smart meter.

I thought it was safe. Did not know

radiation from the smart meters radiates

throughout the whole house.

Two months later hospitalized with

cardiac arrhythmia V-tach again. Stabilized

12-24-11 to 12-28-11.

Then informed Southern California

that their smart meter was killing me. Sent

them medical information and legal documents

to have the smart meter changed.

Edison informed me that their smart

meters were not responsible for my cardiac

arrhythmias or any other medical problems.

They did nothing.

I then had the smart meter changed

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937

back to the original analog meter. Felt much

better after the change. But the next door

neighbor's smart meter was ten feet away from

my house. Radiate from the smart meter

affected me nine months later.

Hospitalized with cardiac arrhythmia

V-tach again. Stabilized 9-16-12 to 9-20.

Southern California Edison now has

an opt-out program with smart meters back to

analog meters. Both my neighbors have

changed back to original analog meters.

My heartbeat is now better. And I

thank you for this chance to talk.

(Applause)


Myra Mycena followed by Jeannie

Lewis.

STATEMENT OF MS. MYCENA

MS. MYCENA: Your Honor, I'm Myra

Mycena. And I would just like to say that

for every individual here, if the public had

been as well informed as we are now right

here, we would have a thousand people for per

person right here. The reason why you don't

have more opt-out people is because they

don't know about the dangers. The public was

not well informed.

You know, I'm a PhD in clinical

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938

psychology. And I'll tell you why that is

important. I deal with people that have

problems that are invisible. They're

intangible, emotional problems, psychological

problems, spiritual problems began very

invisibly. Nobody knows they have them until

they get to a point where it becomes

intangible and it starts intruding in on

their personal and professional lives.

And why is that important? Because

the nature of EMS, these electrical magnetic

forces, is you cannot see them. So by and

large, people don't feel threatened by

something that really is so damaging to them.

And by the time it is damaging, it's too

late.

So let me just bring something up

about it. In the 50s and 60s, there was a

thalidomide tragedy. I'm going to bring this

up because thalidomide was a drug that was

presented as harmless. And it was given to

pregnant women. It was a sedative drug.

And over 10,000 babies were

deformed. Many were killed. And the women,

the mothers who took this drug -- they had

these symptoms. They had numbness. They had

coldness. They had all kinds of tingly

feelings.

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939

And they were told, you know, that's

just a side effect of the drug. Everything

is okay. Well, many of those mothers -- they

did not recover from these effects. And look

at the babies. We know because we can see.

You understand EMS you cannot see.

But the tragedy of so many things

that were said on this thalidomide we know

now: deformities, arms that range -- that

stem out from their shoulders, deformed eyes

and ears, so many things.

We should not have to pay for

something that is going to kill us. Thank

you.

(Applause)


Jeannie Lewis followed by Mireille

Taar.

STATEMENT OF MS. LEWIS

MS. LEWIS: Yes. I'm just repeating

what you've already heard everyone else say

on guess the opt-out -- the fees that are

charged. Most of the time these opt-out

fees, the people who really need to opt out

the most are the people who can't afford to.

They can't and yet they have to do it because

like the defibrillators, and that's the kind

of things are so harmful to them.

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940

And I wonder why this is that we

have to pay that when the federal government

hasn't even made these meters mandatory.

Also, I have a big concern -- I've

been in data management for years -- of the

privacy issue because when we're at home, the

hackers can go in and tell -- even though

Edison wouldn't do it, I'm sure. The CPU

wouldn't do it. But there's hackers that

know when we're home and when we're not home

just due to these meters. They know and they

can sell this information to anyone who pays

them the right price.

So they know when to come in and

to -- they know when to come in and to do

harm to our homes when they can come in and

steal when we're not there. They know when

we're asleep and when everything is quiet.

And this is just an issue that I don't think

is right for the public to know. We should

feel free behind our own closed doors.

(Applause)


Mireille Taar followed by Maureen

Homan.

STATEMENT OF MS. TAAR

MS. TAAR: My name is Mireille Taar.

I'm a resident of Irvine. Frankly, your

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941

Honor and members of the CPUC, I do not see

what else I can add to what people have been

talking about since the beginning and what

anybody else can add further except bring

personal testimony to this situation.

I really feel that it is time for

big companies to start listening to the

people. For years and years, we have plied

under. We have opened up all that we could

do to listen and to follow. And I think

those times are over.

So I would like to tell the

California Public Utilities Commission and

the Edison Company that they had better start

listening because you can see from the events

that we've had yesterday -- I mean, the few

days ago in Connecticut that people are on

the action. And they are not going to quit.

So it's time for this other side to

start thinking about what it is that they're

doing to the world, which is being followed

by other nations. We are the teachers of the

world that we are at this time getting very

very bad example around us. But we are

starting to wake up and not take what it is

that we are being thrown under without our

will and for the wrong consequences.

In my case, I found out about it.

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942

And about three or four days later, when I

called, I found out that they had already

been put in my home. And the idea that I

would have to then go back -- I have a

husband who has cancer, and it is very bad

thing for him to be under this kind of

situation. I live in a condo, and I know

that one foot away from me left and right

they're all there.

So I've been thinking about whether

it's even worth taking it out -- me,

personally. However, I am going to be doing

this. But for us to be paying for this is

incredible.

I think everything has been

mentioned so far: extortion, thievery, lies.

Whatever you want to call it, it's there.

And it's enough, and it's time to stop. And

I think you're going to be hearing about it

and it's not going to go away. So,

hopefully, you will.

(Applause)


Maureen Homan followed by Ben

Savill.

STATEMENT OF MS. HOMAN

MS. HOMAN: Thank you, your Honor, for

these hearings. We appreciate that.

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943

My name is Maureen Homan, and I'm a

certified public accountant from Tustin.

I've been researching smart meters in the

smart grid for over a year now. And I'm

disgusted that these devices have been forced

on homes, schools, offices, without anyone's

consent.

My electric meter is five foot from

headboard. My gas meter is two feet from my

daughter's headboard. I have a right to be

safe in my home. Smart meters directly

assault this right to my family's safety.

They're not healthy, and they emit microwave

radiation, which is a known Class 2B

carcinogen. The U.S. military has known this

since the 70s.

They are not secure and can be

hacked, as professed by former CIA director

James Woolsey. He's stated this. They catch

fire. They're not even UL certified.

They collect private data as far as

living patterns on how we live our lives, as

professed by CIA Director Petraeus in a

recent interview. This private data will be

collected and permanently stored and sold to

big corporations like IBM, Siemens, and

Microsoft. They call this the big data

revolution. It's valueless, priceless.

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944

Now I'm forced because I don't

consent -- I'm forced to pay a fee. This is

extortion. These fees are unjust. They're

arbitrary. They're unreasonable, which

clearly violates the Code 451.

I will pay for a billing system that

delivers electricity to my home. However,

opt-out fees make me pay for two billing

systems. Electricity, gas, and water are

basic essentials, and those essentials are

provided by a monopoly service provider. I

can't go anywhere else.

Because the price is so expensive,

this opt-out option is only for the rich.

What about the poor? What about apartment

dwellers that can't get away from banks of

meters? This is a debacle. And we shouldn't

be forced to pay for it. Thank you.

(Applause)


Ben Savill followed by Emil

Bereczky.

STATEMENT OF MR. SAVILL

MR. SAVILL: Ben Savill from Tustin. I

have some photos of the bank of smart meters

on my neighbor's wall. I've written to the

CPUC and the Public Advisor about this

several times. I've never had a straight

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945

reply. I'd like to disseminate these photos

to you.

This is not my home, fortunately.

It's my neighbor two doors down. And I'm

here on behalf of a little boy name Vincent

who lives in that home. He has 11 smart

meters underneath his bedroom. He has five

gas meters that will no doubt soon have smart

meters in their place.

Soon after the installation of

Southern California Edison's smart meters, he

started waking up in the middle of the night

repeatedly crying, screaming, banging his

head, hitting his head against the side of

his crib.

His parents had to take him away.

And as soon as he went to stay with

relatives, the problem went away. As soon as

he came back home, the problem reemerged.

The opt-out doesn't help Vincent.

His parents opted out. You'll see in the

picture there are two out of the eleven

meters have the orange opt-out symbol.

One is mine. The only reason I was

able to opt out is that I have a disabled

son, so I qualify for the discount. But I

won't be able to if you allow Southern

California Edison to increase the fee.

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946

I'm not aware of any research in the

long-term health effects of having banks of

smart meters outside a children's bedroom.

But I suspect if the research was done, it

would not be good.

I really think the CPUC has got to

take this issue seriously. You've ignored my

letters. You've probably ignored hundreds of

other letters already. You need to institute

a moratorium immediately on the installation

of banks and multiple smart meters and waive

all fees to customers whose smart meters are

part of a bank of smart meters.

You can't leave it to the policy and

the inaction of neighbors to opt out when

they have no incentive to do so. They're not

directly affected by these banks of smart

meters, so they don't see the need to pay for

it, even if they have the ability to pay.

And your failure to take action on

this issue is potentially very discriminatory

against people on a low income, people with

disabilities, and minority communities who

tend to live in apartment communities and

condo communities such as ours, which is

designed for people on a low to moderate

income.

I really urge you to take action.

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947

We can choose not to use the smart phone. We

can choose not to use WiFi in our homes.

But, as everybody said, this is a monopoly

utility. We have no choice in the matter.

You have to give us a choice, and it has to

be a free choice.

(Applause)


Emil Bereczky followed by Eric

Wilson.

STATEMENT OF MR. BERECZKY

MR. BERECZKY: I'm Emil Bereczky. And

my wife is with me in the audience because

she shares my concerns as well as several

members of our family who have their own

homes in Orange County.

We have been concerned and objected

to having these smart meters forced on us

first because of concerns -- health concerns

and then -- so the other thing we were

concerned about is the cost later on because

there are several ways that the utility

actually is collecting money unfairly from

us.

First of all, to the best of our

knowledge, these smart meters are more

accurate. And when new equipment turns on,

they draw extra current for a extremely short

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948

time. And the old analog meters did not pick

these up. But these do.

So we were kind of surprised that we

had to pay $75 and $10 a month. And now

we're even more surprised that the utility

has the nerve to ask us now for more money

for opting out. And I believe $24, in other

words more money, for every month. This is

really plain highway robbery. They're saving

money, and they're charging for us.

They're also saving money on doing

away with a lot of meter readers, for

example. So I was looking -- naively,

looking for a reduction of my electric cost.

Instead we are getting paid more.

So I request that the Public

Utilities Commission summarily reject any

increased monthly or opt-out fees for those

who are concerned because of health effects

or whatever good reason they want to opt out.

Thank you very much.

(Applause)


Eric Wilson followed by John Black.

STATEMENT OF MR. WILSON

MR. WILSON: Okay. I want to thank you

for letting us speak. I don't really have

anything prepared. Everyone here has pretty

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much covered the same thing that I came up

with.

But I just want to say that

personally I've been worried about these

smart meters for a long time because I

studied all the technology. And this WiFi

way that we're going -- everything's going

WiFi. It's not going to stop with the

electric company, the gas company. Then it's

going to be the water company. Then it's

going to be smart appliances in your house.

And they're all going to -- I mean, this is

just going to go on and on and on.

And this WiFi -- it goes off into

the ionosphere. I mean, it's going to

change -- it could change the weather, the

weather pattern. You know, we're having all

this crazy weather, earthquakes. I mean, I

think we're going to new technology when we

really don't know what the long-term effects

are going to be and what we're doing to the

environment.

You know, they talk about global

warming and all this stuff. What about this

stuff that's going off into space? I mean,

this is just the wrong way to go.

And it's all about the dollar.

These companies -- they -- (applause).

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950

They want to switch to time of use.

They're going study the patterns of everybody

when they use their power, and then they're

going to go place them in this rate structure

where it's paid time of use. And it's just

going to keep going up and up and up.

And they've sold it to everybody

that they're going to save money because they

can get on-line and view their -- you know,

when do they use electricity. That is just a

bunch of bull.

And, you know, I have so much

information that I'd like to tell you, but it

would take hours. We've wrote several

letters to you guys, to Michael Peevey. And

we just get this standard bull crap letter

back saying "Tough luck. You're going to

accept this one way or another down the

line."

You know, I followed Edison. I

don't have a smart meter, but it doesn't

matter because my neighbors have them. And

the one points right at my daughter's

bedroom. And just last week -- she's

fifteen years old -- we thought she had the

flu. She had the flu for like three days.

She's throwing up and everything.

Take her to the hospital. Type 1

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951

diabetes just like that. A switch got turned

on. I don't even have it in our family. And

it's like the DR3, DR4 gene. Something

turned it on.

And I think it's this WiFi because

it goes right through your body. And it

splits the DNA. That's it.

(Applause)

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: John Black followed

by Matt Corrigan.

STATEMENT OF MR. BLACK

MR. BLACK: Hi. John Black from North

Tustin. I think the testimony here by

different people has already covered just

about everything including the fact that the

federal government did not mandate these

meters.

So this whole facade that we have to

pay fees and all that -- where does the CPUC

get off on doing that? What authority do

they have to charge us fees and try to keep

up this game that the meters are mandated

when the feds didn't have it mandated?

And I appreciate what Marie Lubbres

had to say about the corporations better wake

up because we're not going to roll over

anymore. This is getting old. We shouldn't

even have to have these meters. They should

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952

be banned. And definitely no fees. But we

shouldn't even have these meters. The health

effects are unacceptable. Thank you.

(Applause)


Matt Corrigan followed by Kathy

Schlicht.

STATEMENT OF MR. CORRIGAN

MR. CORRIGAN: Good evening, your

Honor. And Matt Corrigan. I'm a 20 year old

from Mission Viejo. I do have a smart meter,

but I've opted out. I haven't quite

understood that yet how I have a smart meter

but I've opted out. They put an orange

sticker on my meter. Don't know whether I'm

not getting a signal or whether I'm not

on-line, but that's another issue altogether.

I have two concerns -- two major

concerns. The first one is the opt-out

customer is taking the brunt of the economic

impact on this. That should not be.

Economic class -- whatever, unemployment,

inability to pay that fee, whatever it might

be, it began with the $75 fee and $10 a

month. Now I understand it's higher.

So we have a mandatory agreement,

and we're supposedly a voluntary opt-out

customer. I don't quite understand the

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953

enigma of that language. I don't quite

understand that.

My second concern -- and I stated

this. I have two concerns -- is security.

The third-party analysts that are involved in

analyzing the data -- that can go just about

anywhere as we found out with privacy issues

that are predominant in our society right

now.

The second issue is when the power

goes, whether through a mandatory shutdown or

through the opt-out program, that power is

the only thing in most cases that controls

the burglar alarm. And so when there's an

automatic shutdown, everyone knows that

anyone with a burglar alarm system is

automatically a new candidate. So that

hasn't been answered. So there's a lot of

questions that haven't been answered about

this.

The other thing about privacy is

seems to be a main concern of a lot of people

here tonight. And I think it's a pertinent

one and one that needs to be answered. So

it's an economic issue, a privacy issue. And

I think those are the main concerns that

almost everyone in this room shares. And

thank you, your Honor.

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954

(Applause)


Kathy Schlicht, after which we're

going to take a short five-minute break.

STATEMENT OF MS. SCHLICHT

MS. SCHLICHT: Good evening. My name

is Kathy Schlicht. An opt-out option is a

full choice if the fees are unaffordable.

Why should any ratepayer have to pay a dime

towards opting out? Maybe the ratepayers

should have been given the opportunity of

opting in. Why should a ratepayer pay for

something we do not want? Why should a

ratepayer have to pay an extortion fee to

protect one's privacy and security?

As these smart meters are to control

the usage, why should a smart meter ratepayer

be penalized for opting out of conservative

incentive by not reducing power usage during

peak billing cycles?

How our businesses and commercial

centers able to take advantage of

conservation incentives and not negatively

impact its bottom line? Either way,

businesses lose by either loss of business

hours or penalty for operating during peak

high hours. ]

This is government institution at

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955

its worse.

My analogue meter works fine. As a

smart meter ratepayer I haven't seen any

significant decreases in their bills. I've

read accounts where utility bills have

doubled. Is this true? I have read accounts

where smart meters have started fires. Is

this true? I have read accounts where smart

meters have interfered with household

devices, garage door openers, security

sensors. Is this true? Pacemakers, we just

heard.

PG&E is replacing thousands of its

smart meters because they are not working

properly and are not giving proper readings.

SCE is quitely replacing due to firmware

problems. Why should ratepayers be punished

for not wanting problems from smart meters

that are not safe and are a hazard, that are

not properly functioning and given that they

are an intrusion to personal lives?

This is unjust, unreasonable, needs

to be rescinded and our fees refunded. Smart

meters are unconstitutional unless ratepayers

want to opt in.

It is the duty of CPUC to ensure

that we all have fair equal, access to the

grid. Not punish those of us who wish to

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956

protect our constitutional rights. If

Americans are fully aware of Agenda 21, we

would all rescind these smart meters.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Off the record.

(Recess taken)

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Let's go back on

record.

Our next speaker is Gary Stewart

followed by Bernie Ramsey.

STATEMENT OF MR. STEWART

MR. STEWART: Your Honor, thank you for

the opportunity to come speak before you.

I'm Gary Stewart, I live in Mission

Viejo. I would like to voice my objection

smart meter installation and to the fees

involved in this application.

We currently have a multitiered

phone, or billing system which penalizes you

quite severely for over tier usage of your

utility. I realize that is not my real-time

application, but it does in some part make

people think about their electrical usage and

perhaps moderate the usage, especially when

they know there is a time of fee.

The newspapers and the radio system

are real clear when we have a brownout

situation so a prudent person shut down the

application, washing their clothes, whatever

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957

needs to be done.

Because most of the items have

already been mentioned, there is one thing I

would like to touch on, and that is the

mechanical device itself that transfers the

information to the electric company.

Now, in reading the information on

the website, it says that the whole house is

going to be wired, your radios, your

refrigerators, all of these appliances are

eventually going to have this type of system

on it. Well, the question is who created

this little magic little black box? I mean

did Edison do it, or are they picking up the

technology from another utility, another

resource, another application?

The point is if this technology is

transferred to all these other appliances,

this costs money. We already know it is

costing us money. It is costing us $70 a

month plus 10. That means all of these

appliances that are purchased in the future

are going to have to be more sensitive

because all this new technology is going to

have to be sold on it.

This is not like a computer system

where, you know, they are going to sell 10

million, 6 million. Wow, that is quick.

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958

I object to the increase in prices.

Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Bernie

Ramsey followed by Barbara Geerlings.

STATEMENT OF MS. RAMSEY

MS. RAMSEY: Yes, your Honor. Good

evening. My name is Bernie Ramsey. I live

in Corona, obviously I'm opposed to the smart

meter installation.

I think everyone before me has

spoken my passion, and my ideas. What I want

to suggest to you is that somehow we get some

feedback as consumers as to how you guys make

your decisions, and what part of what all has

been said at these meetings was taken into

consideration on the part of the consumers?

Also, to the outcome of the CPUC meetings.

The smart meter that was installed

on my house was done so without my

permission. I have a locked gate. I was on

the phone talking to a friend telling him

about these smart meters and saying, well,

mine isn't done yet. But I go out the next

day, sure enough it is on my wall. I said

who went into my property to install the

smart meter?

The meter that is on my house is

attached to my bedroom wall. The gas meter,

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959

they should install one, would be attached to

my daughter's bedroom wall against the bed

which she sleeps. For obvious reasons that

we've already heard here, I don't want that

to happen. I want it removed. I prefer

analogue meter. I don't have a smart phone,

cable TV.

(Applause)

MS. RAMSEY: To not be given a choice

whether or not I want this smart meter is

just insulting to me and undemocratic to, say

the least.

So I hope that we are not just

exercising our lungs here tonight, and that

you take our considerations and our concerns

back to the Commission and, you know, make a

just decision based upon -- we are

representative. We are not just here, one or

two people speaking from one or two

organizations. We are representative of a

lot of people that are not here able to speak

for themselves. I hope you take that into

consideration. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Barbara Geerlings

followed by Patricia Linsky.

STATEMENT OF MS. GEERLINGS

MS. GEERLINGS: The smart meter program

was initially projected to cost $1.5 billion

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960

but a reports the actual budget was 5

billion. Quite a short fall.

We were told electric bills would go

down, but in fact those who have analogue

meters replaced by smart meters have had

higher electric bills, in some cases

substantially. Was this to make up the 3.5

billion shortfall in Edison's initial budget

estimates? It certainly does not have

anything to do with the opt out, since the

original budget or plan did not did not

include an opt out.

Is the move to overcharge those who

opt out merely a ploy to force them into the

program? In any case, the proposed fees are

unreasonable and pricing for essential

service from a monopoly should not be based

on the type of meter that is on their home.

Edison is a monopoly and forcing us

to either comply with their wishes or have

services disconnected. Since they are a

publicly funded entity, they do not have that

right in a free society. That is tyranny.

The CPUC's purpose is to regulate

this monopoly. If Edison cannot handle

running two programs side by side the smart

meter opt out, then break the monopoly and

let other companies bid to do their job.

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961

(Applause)

MS. GEERLINGS: Edison needs

competition. Are they incompetent, inept? I

don't know, but if they can't run these

programs, either is a possibility. Or is it

just a money grab from them?

The public needs to be protected

from the oppressive tactics being used by

these out-of-control entities. We look to

you to correct this and stand up for us, not

promote agenda.

My husband wanted to be here but

works until 5:45 near John Wayne Airport.

Unfortunately, a location that was selected

that would prohibit him and most from

attending forcing us a day before Christmas

during rush-hour traffic?

(Applause)

MS. GEERLINGS: CPUC is doing whatever

possible to discourage public comments and

information.

Finally, perhaps they can fully fund

the opt-out program by printing their

advertising in smart meter promotional

literature on other than four color very

pricey glossy stock.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Patricia Linsky

followed by Eric Schaller.

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962

STATEMENT OF MS. LINSKY

MS. LINSKY: Patricia Linsky from Costa

Mesa. I'll be short and sweet, because we

have heard a lot from everyone.

Basically I have a smart meter

installed. I was given no choice. The

reason I came to be involved because my

Edison bill increased by as much as 20

percent per month for the same usage.

The opt-out program came after the

smart meter was installed to only protest --

sorry. I not only protest those latest

opt-out increases, but the fact that there

should be an opt-out penalty at all.

I am the sole support of my

96-year-old mother who lives with me. As you

may guess, health of a woman that age is very

fragile. I do not want her health

jeopardized because I cannot afford to pay an

inflated Edison bill.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Eric Schaller

followed by Elizabeth Plourde. Mr. Schaller,

S-c-h-a-l-l-e-r.

STATEMENT OF MR. SCHALLER

MR. SCHALLER: I think that is me. I

can't walk up to the front. I don't know if

you can hear me from back here?

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Ladies and

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963

gentlemen, I want you to be very quiet

because our reporter does need to hear as

well and take down what he has to say.

MR. SCHALLER: Over five years ago I

decided to get rid of my cell phone. I

haven't had a cell phone in five years. The

reason why I got rid of my cell phone. It

was disastrous to my health. I got rid of

it. I haven't had one since.

Over five years ago I got rid of my

microwave oven. I got rid of the microwave

oven for the same reason that I got rid of

the cell phone, it was not good for my

health.

I also got rid of all wireless in my

home. I don't like people to use the cell

phones when they were around me because it

emits dangerous radiation.

I've never heard of a smart meter

until about a month or two ago, and I found

out that there were 12 of them against my

bedroom wall, 12, and that they have been

there for a year half. During that year half

my health came screeching down where I can't

even walk anymore all because of the smart

meter.

So I'm -- I don't think that these

utilities should be a monopoly. They don't

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964

deserve it. And they should take care of the

people. And it is not right to -- I mean

they could have told me. I could have

avoided it, you know. It is like a cell

phone. I can choose not to do a cell phone,

but you can't choose not to do the smart

meter. They put it in there on you, and that

is it. That is all I have to say.


Elizabeth Plourde followed by Dale Tyler.

STATEMENT OF MS. PLOURDE

MS. PLOURDE: My name is Dr. Elizabeth

Plourde. I'm a medical researcher. I've

written three books. I'm a menopause

practitioner. I do health consulting around

the nation.

I became aware of smart meters when

PG&E started putting them in in Northern

California several years ago, because I got

insomnia, headaches, heart palpitations, skin

rashes. People are totally miserable, unable

to stay in their houses, having to leave

their houses. In working with those people,

I realized I didn't want them in Southern

California, and I did my best to try to stop

them from coming in Southern California.

Well, now my awareness is absolutely

increased again because it is all the same

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965

symptoms to the people here, the migraines,

the insomnia, the skin rashes, it goes on.

So I decided to start in -- looking

at it, because I've been a researcher looking

at biochemistry of our hormones. I am

appalled. I spent four months, and there is

absolutely no doubt that the chemical effect

on every cell in the body, the blood cells,

every single cell, the gut lining are

responsible for. The absolute increase

in autism, increase in Alzheimer's, the

increase in obesity, the increase in asthma.

This is absolutely proven. I've

submitted a portion of my book to you,

because there is just no doubt. And these

costs to our society are absolutely tearing

our fabric of our families apart. The autism

is absolutely destroying us. The Alzheimer's

is destroying us. And these all have been

rising since electromagnetic radiation has

been around. There is no doubt that they

have studies now, 13-year studies of

following children on the obesity epidemic.

So anyway, electromagnetic

radiation, they should be banned completely.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Dale Tyler followed

by Mark Mason.

STATEMENT OF MR. TYLER

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966

MR. TYLER: Yes, my name is Dale Tyler.

I live in Mission Viejo.

I kind of think that the fees

associated with opting out from the smart

meters are unconscionably large. There

doesn't seem to be any support for the

amounts that they are charging much less the

increased proposed.

I'd offer you a couple of

suggestions. One suggestion is the day I

believe all the electric companies in the

state offer a level pay system where you

settle once a year based on your total usage

for that year. That means that effectively

they can read the meter physically once a

year. That physical reading should cost very

little, but maybe $50 if you want to use

that. That should be the only charge to the

customer is that single reading for the year.

It has also been pointed out to me

what Southern California Gas, I believe,

offers self-reading where you can go in and

read your own meter and send a little

postcard and send you a bill based on your

reading.

In addition to all of this, I've

been in contact with San Diego Gas and

Electric, because I believe that I've been

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967

experiencing harmful interference with

telemetry equipment in my home. And I've not

received any information from Southern

California, San Diego Gas and Electric

rather, or their representatives regarding

the exact mechanisms their meters use to

communicate with frequencies, and so forth.

I think that -- I've reported a Part

15 violation to the FCC, and I think San

Diego Gas and Electric should be responding,

but they are not. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Mark

Mason followed by John Smith.

STATEMENT OF MR. MASON

MR. MASON: Hello, your Honor. My name

is Mark Mason from Nuevo, California, which

is in Riverside.

I have a smart meter, and I also put

on solar panels on my house to reduce my

electricity usage. Since they put the new

smart meter in, my electricity usage has gone

up considerably. And I couldn't understand

why that was. Why would it go up just

because of a new meter? I asked my

neighbors, their usage went up.

And what is happening is the way

they -- when they use the analogue meter, you

would get 16 units in the summertime for

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968

every day times 30 days in a month. Well,

now they -- you get the 16. If you don't use

that full 16 units, they reduce it for that

day. So before you know it you don't get any

of that portion back again. The next day you

turn your air-conditioning on, you are 9

tier, and they charge you 32 cents for that

unit. The next day when I sell units, they

pay me 13 cents. So that is how they are

raising the rates without raising the rates.

So people don't understand how that is

happening.

I think that no one should have to

opt out of the smart meter; and if they do

opt out, they shouldn't have to pay a fee.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. John

Smith followed by Sarah Mallon.

STATEMENT OF MR. SMITH

MR. SMITH: Hi, John Smith. I'm here

to address specifically the gas company's

proposed fees for an opt out.

My gas bill is only about 20 bucks a

month. Their opt-out fees, they want to add

an additional $24 to my gas bill.

In addition to that, they want to

charge one-time penalty fee of $179 which is

almost a year's worth of gas. Somehow this

is a reasonable rate for an opt-out fee? I

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969

mean these numbers, if you look it, it is

almost abusive. It is really, really bad.

I have a reasonable solution for

people that want to opt out. In lieu of

paying any fees whatsoever, why not -- why

doesn't the CPUC endorse any kind of

self-metering program? You guys have done

nothing to this effect. You guys have been

told about it, and there has been no push to

endorse this whatsoever. I mean people can

report their readings either via website or

phone system. They can report their meter

readings. The company already has

statistics.

If the meter reading sounds

abnormally low, they can send somebody out to

verify the reading. But I mean that would be

a reasonable compromise in place of paying

any penalty fees whatsoever for an opt out.

Just have customers enroll in self-metering

program. It sounds like a reasonable

solution. I don't know why you guys are not

pushing it.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They just

average it anyways. They don't read the

meter.

MR. SMITH: I've seen the utility

companies make up readings when they don't

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have them. These numbers are not that

necessary for them. At the end of the day

people are billing the utility.

And the other issue is, you know,

utility companies are supposed to be in the

business of providing utilities gas, water,

and electric, not selling people's personal

information. This is not something they

should be able to do. They should be in the

business to provide power, electricity, et

cetera, safely. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Sarah

Mallon followed by Bruce Mayall.

STATEMENT OF MS. MALLON

MS. MALLON: My name is Sarah Mayall.

I was engaged to a national security

councilman that runs the Rain Corporation.

Since then I have been able to contact people

that are the top scientists of this nation

and other nations, and they are saying how

dangerous this is.

It was the U.N. that pushed the USDA

to write a tag bill and put it on the

Baylor's (phonetic) bank out, which us the

taxpayers are paying for. We are paying for

these murder readers to be put on our homes.

Folks, wake up. This is the biggest

fraud. And on top of it, you know, the NASA

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971

report that this lovely woman back here was

talking about, they have mountains of

documentation of how dangerous this radiation

is for our health, our children.

And for God sake -- I'm part of the

niche and bitch society, we can find out

where people live, who works on your car,

what you are doing, who is dating who. And

honey, we can make your lives horrible. I

want all these politicians that are pushing

this stuff, they better wake up, and they

better wake up quick up.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Bruce Mayall

followed by Linda Anderson.

STATEMENT OF MR. MAYALL

MR. MAYALL: I've lived in the same

house using the same analogue meter for 27

years. The meter served Edison quite well,

and now I'm having to pay $10 a month, plus

$75 initial fee just to use the same meter in

the same house. I find that fundamentally

wrong.

I do not approve of that at all.

There should be no rate at all. Whatever

that has been paid should be returned to

people that have paid them. We are talking

about the opt-out rate.

The thing that bothers me, first of

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972

all, I'm sort of a techie, an old techie

would be the way to put it, I guess. I would

love to be able to monitor the energy use of

my house very closely minute by minute. But

that is my business, that is nobody else's.

I do have an 8 kilowatt solar system

on my home. So it actually applies to me a

whole lot, because for the most part I

generate the energy that I use plus a little

extra sometimes. If I generate extra and I'm

using a smart meter, am I going to get a

better deal from Edison because of the fact

that I put energy back into the grid? Will

they give me a better price for having done

that?

I'm very much opposed to that. And

the violation of privacy I think is

absolutely terribly. If you accept this,

then the next thing the government gets in

and you were really controlled.

I have M.S., a heat-sensitive

disease. If you shut off my air conditioner

in the middle of the summer because of the

smart meter, I'm going to be one unhappy

camper. Thank you very much.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Linda

Anderson followed Terry McCulloh.

STATEMENT OF MS. ANDERSON

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973

MS. ANDERSON: This is not easy for me

public speaking, but I became homeless

because Edison came in and installed a grid

of 5 smart meters on the apartment building

I'm moving in, and there is another five

right in front of me, another five. Lots of

apartment, so 20.

I felt it immediately when it

clicked into the building. And then I told

the guy, please take that off right now. He

took off one, and he left on the other four.

I said I can feel it in my head, I feel it in

my feet.

Anyways, I had to move out of my

apartment and put everything in storage. It

took me 10 months to find somewhere to live

because everywhere you go, there are smart

meters everywhere. I have sensitivity to it.

I've worked on the computer many hours. I

didn't know the things at my feet were

radiating me. So now I know all about it.

It is unbelievable that people do

not listen. And I have clients that have

actually died. I'm a travel agent. I

believe people that have decide in their 30s

from cell phones, from radiating themselves

and they don't know it, the headaches, the

heat, all the symptoms.

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974

It is really a terrible thing. So

I'm, you know, 10 months I was homeless. I

finally found somewhere that doesn't have

cell phone towers around it. They are

everywhere. If you look on antennasearch.com

everywhere you look they were putting more

and making people ill and making people die

of cancer, little children, all ages,

teenagers, 20 year olds, 30 your olds, people

don't have a clue. It is an extremely

serious problem. People need to listen.

Thank you.


STATEMENT OF MR. McCULLOH

MR. McCULLOH: I guess I'm last. Good

to see you again.

I wanted to finish up where I

started off last time. I just wanted to

reiterate a couple of things I heard here.

The health effects, notwithstanding, but they

are scary, that is not really my beef. My

beef is really the justification the

utilities' have done to justify the cost and

actual opt-out fee.

I would like to say I'm a retired

communications network engineer, semiretired

because I still have two kids in college.

I've installed communications with military

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975

and commercial customers. And then utilities

are using the FCC radiation when -- that is

kind of a joke, it is not a task, neither the

NTIA or FCC for biological radiation limits.

Their main task is interference between

services, that is their main.

Anyway, in terms of the costs

associated -- the network operations costs,

it is a mesh network that should not be even

considered because networks inherently -- so

that is not an issue. There is some

development costs that are associated with

it. Something is going on there.

The O&M, Legacy with the old billing

system they mentioned -- the billing system,

the billing record for a analogue meter, it

is small subset. The new billing system

should easily incorporate the old Legacy

system without any overhead or any headaches

for migrating or integrating.

The biggest cost, the only one that

is legitimate is the meter reading. And I've

communicated this with my utility over the

years. They can be easily handled with

innovative Web techniques. Almost everyone

has a cell phone, Internet.

Most of those, I mean those costs

$30-40 dollars, 1.4 percent of the population

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976

that they didn't say are opt-out customers.

This just doesn't -- that really doesn't pass

the smell test.

And then, you know, the self-read

could easily be done. They talk about how

inaccurate it is, but I have data to share

with you. I put another chart in for the

record for this one, basically my own

personal experience with a couple of

properties -- I know it is up. I'm the last

one, sorry.

In one case it is formation of a

dispute. I had smart meter, and June I opted

out and had to put the analogue back in.

They came and couple of weeks, two weeks

apart and then stopped estimating. It

stopped reading and started estimating way

higher than even historical.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Mr. McCullough, you

are going to have to conclude.

MR. McCULLOH: Okay. I've heard in the

past somehow these meters are overcharging.

I figured it has to do with them estimating

high, way high. And then basically on

estimates on top of estimates it gets -- and

then when I push back, it gets paid for what

I actually use, and late fees on charges that

was never really clear.

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977

So basically I'm going to use a

formal dispute. I have similar properties

very similar situation. Thanks.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you,

Mr. McCullough.

That is all the speakers who have

signed up for comment. Is there anybody else

who has not signed up who wishes to

commitment at this point?

STATEMENT OF MS. PERATA

MS. PERATA: Yes.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Ma'am, if you would

like to make a comment you can come up.

Please state your name, spell your last name.

You will be given two minutes.

MS. PERATA: I'm Virginia Perata.

I propose that you ban them totally.

You are destroying people's health. It is

evident. My daughter who runs five miles a

day, very active, exercises. And she is a

real estate broker. She was showing a house,

and all of a sudden she couldn't climb the

stairs. Her heart was pounding, she just

couldn't catch her breath. So that happened

a couple more times, she said, gees, I've got

to do something.

She went to the heart doctor. The

heart doctor put her on the MRI, checked her

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978

out, no problems. Put her on a monitor for

two days, no problem, and told her she was

probably stressed out.

Well, when I was talking to her I

said did you have a smart meter put in? She

said gees, I don't know. Then she found out

she did. She got on the Internet. She found

out they could affect your health, your

heart.

And so she said she called up Edison

and she said you know what, come take it out.

They said you've got to pay $75. She said I

don't care. I don't want. She is fine now.

So if it is that and all the things

that you heard that these people said, how

can you even think about leaving them there

if they are there --

(Applause)

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Ma'am, I'm sorry, if

you need to say anything, can you please come

up.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, I just

wanted one more minute. ]

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: No, we're not. We

are off the record.

(Off the record)

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: We will go on the

record.

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979

We are concluded with this hearing.

We are now off the record.

(Whereupon, at the hour of 7:37p.m., this matter having been continuedto 2:00 p.m., December 20, 2012, atSanta Rosa, California, the Commissionthen adjourned.)

* * * * *

980


OF THE

STATE OF CALIFORNIA



))))))))))

Application11-03-014;A.11-03-015;A.11-07-020

CERTIFICATION OF TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDING

I, Michael J. Shintaku, Certified Shorthand

Reporter No. 8251, in and for the State of California

do hereby certify that the pages of this transcript

prepared by me comprise a full, true and correct

transcript of the testimony and proceedings held in

the above-captioned matter on December 18, 2012.

I further certify that I have no interest in the

events of the matter or the outcome of the proceeding.

EXECUTED this 18th day of December, 2012.

_________________________Michael J. ShintakuCSR No. 8251

981


OF THE

STATE OF CALIFORNIA



))))))))))

Application11-03-014;A.11-03-015;A.11-07-020

CERTIFICATION OF TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDING

I, Ana M. Gonzalez, Certified Shorthand Reporter

No. 11320, in and for the State of California do

hereby certify that the pages of this transcript

prepared by me comprise a full, true and correct

transcript of the testimony and proceedings held in

the above-captioned matter on December 18, 2012.

I further certify that I have no interest in the

events of the matter or the outcome of the proceeding.

EXECUTED this 18th day of December, 2012.

_________________________Ana M. GonzalezCSR No. 11320