“You have to shed blood before you can shed a tear”: Emotion-talk in Adolescent Male Group

Discussions

Neill Korobov – UC Santa Cruz

Luke Moissinac – Texas A&M-Corpus Christi

Michael Bamberg – Clark University

The “Crisis in Masculinity”?

“My preference is for someone who’s afraid of closeness, like me”

Inexpressive or Relational?

• Theories of Male ‘Restrictive Emotionality/Relationality’– Questionnaires, Surveys, Clinical

observations• (Garbarino, 1999; Kindlon &

Thompson, 1999; Pleck, 1995; Pollack, 1998)

• Voice-centered Approaches – Semi-structured Clinical

interviews• (Chu, 2004; Frosh, Phoenix, &

Pattman, 2002; Tolman, Spencer, Harmon, Rosen-Reynoso & Striepe, 2004; Way, 2004)

“My preference is for someone who is afraid of closeness, like me”

Current Research Focus

• Move beyond the idea of ‘probing’ in clinical interview settings to examine the subtleties of emotionality/relationality as ‘relational positions’ in everyday talk.

• Examine the ways that young men continually “resist fixity” and shift between multiple discursive emotional/relational repertoires (in group conversations).

• Our discursive approach entails– working up of a range of evaluative stances– dilemmatic positions resulting in shifting between competing

emotional/relational stances

Method• Participants

– 40 males between the ages of 10 and 15 (2000-01)

– Multi-ethnic origin– Large metropolitan New

England city

• Group Discussions– 11 group discussions– Lasted 1.5-2 hrs each– Range of topics covered– Videotaped

• Analysis– discourse analytic– emphasis on interactive

accomplishments– identity challenges

work with two clips:

• 10-year-olds– Brittney Spears

“ugly” or “cute”?

• 15-year-olds”somebody to lean on”

• Shedding emotions[“but not too much”]

QuickTime™ and aDV/DVCPRO - NTSC decompressor

are needed to see this picture.

1. Mod: okay who watched the super bowl_2. V: [oh I DID {raised arms}3. Ma: [oh::: {raised arms}4. W: [ME5. V: RA::VENS (.) I made [a big ((dis ))6. S: [I jusÕ watched half-time sorry7. Mod: you just watched the half-time_8. S: ūmmhmū {nodding}9. Ma: I watched most [of it10. V: [yah cause heÕs in LO::::VE with [Britney Spears {left arm

raised}11. W: [I can see [TWO INTERCEPTIONS [OO:::H_ {gesturing with two fingers of both raised hands}12. Mod: [what_13. V: heÕs in LO:::VE with Britney Spears=14. Ma: =nah ah [with Miss Watts15. Mod: [oh thatÕs why you watched only (.) halftime_16. S: uhhuh {smiling}17. Mod: [huhuh18. V: [hehehe19. Ma: [huhuh20. Mod: alright weÕll get to [that later21. S: [no::: but donÕt say that=22. V: [uh uh {tries to interrupt}23. Mod: =huhuh [weÕll weÕll get to that later24. S: [especially in front of (.) the (.) camera= {gestures to camera}26. Mod: =yah right=27. V: =STANTON JONES LO:::::VES BRITNEY SPEAR:::S=

28. Mod: =ok [wait a minute ok no I I donÕt really want totalk about her (.) exclusively

29. S: [NO::: (.) not that (.) [thatÕs fine thatÕs30. Ma: [ūMiss Wattsū

{whispering in VicÕs ear}31. Mod: (.) but she is kinda pretty_32. V: [UGGHH:: AGGHH {expresses disgust}33. Ma: [YA::H34. W: [ūBritneyū yahoo (.) I have a [poster in my bedroom= {body

movements of enthusiasm}35. S: =SO DO I [ūcan we talk about can we justū36.Mod:{gestures vindication of Britney SpearÕs attractiveness toboys}36. V: Stanton Jones (.) is in love (.) with _Miss Watts_ (.) our _art helper {talking deliberately to camera} {Vic cackles, points at Stanton, dances around in his chair}37. S: I hate you vic {smiling}38. V: yah huh I gotcha on that one {smiling and dances in his chair}39. Ma: ūsheÕs a ((ÉÉ.. ))ū {to Victor}40. W: ūsheÕs nineteenū {to Victor}41. S: Victor is loved with Mister Barrow42. V: [IÕm NOT::: {smiling, then makes a pouty face at Stanton, sticks tongue out}43. Mod: [okay okay guys (.) I think (.) didnÕt we have this kind of thing before [once_44. S: [oh yeah

1. Mod: okay who watched the super bowl_2. V: [oh I DID {raised arms}3. Ma: [oh::: {raised arms}4. W: [ME5. V: RA::VENS (.) I made [a big ((dis ))6. S: [I jusÕ watched half-time sorry7. Mod: you just watched the half-time_8. S: ūmmhmū {nodding}9. Ma: I watched most [of it

10.V: [yah cause heÕs in LO::::VE with [BritneySpears {left arm raised}

10. W: [I can see [TWO INTERCEPTIONS [OO:::H_ {gesturing with two fingers of both raised hands}11. Mod: [what_12. V: heÕs in LO:::VE with Britney Spears=

13. Ma: =nah ah [with Miss Watts14. Mod: [oh thatÕs why you watched only (.) halftime_15. S: uhhuh {smiling}16. Mod: [huhuh17. V: [hehehe18. Ma: [huhuh19. Mod: alright weÕll get to [that later20. S: [no::: but donÕt say that=21. V: [uh uh {tries to interrupt}22. Mod: =huhuh [weÕll weÕll get to that later23. S: [especially in front of (.) the (.) camera= {gestures to camera}26. Mod: =yah right=

27. V: =STANTON JONES LO:::::VES BRITNEY SPEAR:::S=28. Mod: =ok [wait a minute ok no I I donÕt really want to talk about her (.) exclusively29. S: [NO::: (.) not that (.) [thatÕs fine thatÕs

30. Ma: [ūMiss Wattsū {whispering in VicÕs ear}31. Mod: (.) but she is kinda pretty_32. V: [UGGHH:: AGGHH {expresses disgust}33. Ma: [YA::H34. W: [ūBritneyū yahoo (.) I have a [poster in my bedroom= {body movements of enthusiasm}35. S: =SO DO I [ūcan we talk about can we justū36. Mod: {gestures vindication of Britney SpearÕs attractiveness to boys}

37V: Stanton Jones (.) is in love (.) with _Miss Watts_ (.) our arthelper {talking deliberately to camera} {Vic cackles, pointsat Stanton, dances around in his chair}

37. S: I hate you vic {smiling}38. V: yah huh I gotcha on that one {smiling and dances in his chair}39. Ma: ūsheÕs a ((ÉÉ.. ))ū {to Victor}40. W: ūsheÕs nineteenū {to Victor}41. S: Victor is loved with Mister Barrow42. V: [IÕm NOT::: {smiling, then makes a pouty face at Stanton, sticks tongue out}43. Mod: [okay okay guys (.) I think (.) didnÕt we have this kind of thing before [once_44. S: [oh yeah45.

1. Mod: okay who watched the super bowl_2. V: [oh I DID {raised arms}3. Ma: [oh::: {raised arms}4. W: [ME5. V: RA::VENS (.) I made [a big ((dis ))

6. S: [I jusÕ watched half-time sorry7. Mod: you just watched the half-time_8. S: ūmmhmū {nodding}9. Ma: I watched most [of it

10.V: [yah cause heÕs in LO::::VE with [BritneySpears {left arm raised}

10. W: [I can see [TWO INTERCEPTIONS [OO:::H_ {gesturing with two fingers of both raised hands}11. Mod: [what_12. V: heÕs in LO:::VE with Britney Spears=13. Ma: =nah ah [with Miss Watts14. Mod: [oh thatÕs why you watched only (.) halftime_

16.S: uhhuh {smiling}15. Mod: [huhuh16. V: [hehehe17. Ma: [huhuh18. Mod: alright weÕll get to [that later19. S: [no::: but donÕt say that=20. V: [uh uh {tries to interrupt}21. Mod: =huhuh [weÕll weÕll get to that later22. S: [especially in front of (.) the (.) camera= {gestures to camera}26. Mod: =yah right=27. V: =STANTON JONES LO:::::VES BRITNEY SPEAR:::S=28. Mod: =ok [wait a minute ok no I I donÕt really want to talk about her (.) exclusively

29. S: [NO::: (.) not that (.) [thatÕs fine thatÕs30. Ma: [ūMiss Wattsū {whispering in VicÕs ear}31. Mod: (.) but she is kinda pretty_32. V: [UGGHH:: AGGHH {expresses disgust}33. Ma: [YA::H34. W: [ūBritneyū yahoo (.) I have a [poster in my bedroom= {body movements of enthusiasm}35. S: =SO DO I [ūcan we talk about can we justū36. Mod: {gestures vindication of Britney SpearÕs attractiveness to boys}37. V: Stanton Jones (.) is in love (.) with _Miss Watts_ (.) our _art helper {talking deliberately to camera} {Vic cackles, points at Stanton, dances around in his chair}38. S: I hate you vic {smiling}39. V: yah huh I gotcha on that one {smiling and dances in his chair}40. Ma: ūsheÕs a ((ÉÉ.. ))ū {to Victor}41. W: ūsheÕs nineteenū {to Victor}42. S: Victor is loved with Mister Barrow43. V: [IÕm NOT::: {smiling, then makes a pouty face at Stanton, sticks tongue out}44. Mod: [okay okay guys (.) I think (.) didnÕt we have this kind of thing before [once_45. S: [oh yeah46.

1. Mod: okay who watched the super bowl_2. V: [oh I DID {raised arms}3. Ma: [oh::: {raised arms}4. W: [ME5. V: RA::VENS (.) I made [a big ((dis ))6. S: [I jusÕ watched half-time sorry7. Mod: you just watched the half-time_8. S: ūmmhmū {nodding}9. Ma: I watched most [of it10. V: [yah cause heÕs in LO::::VE with [Britney Spears {left arm

raised}11. W: [I can see [TWO INTERCEPTIONS [OO:::H_ {gesturing with two fingers of both raised hands}12. Mod: [what_13. V: heÕs in LO:::VE with Britney Spears=14. Ma: =nah ah [with Miss Watts15. Mod: [oh thatÕs why you watched only (.) halftime_16. S: uhhuh {smiling}17. Mod: [huhuh18. V: [hehehe19. Ma: [huhuh20. Mod: alright weÕll get to [that later

21. S: [no::: but donÕt say that=22. V: [uh uh {tries to interrupt}23. Mod: =huhuh [weÕll weÕll get to that later24.S: [especially in front of (.) the (.) camera={gestures to camera}26. Mod: =yah right=27. V: =STANTON JONES LO:::::VES BRITNEY SPEAR:::S=28. Mod: =ok [wait a minute ok no I I donÕt really want to talk about her (.) exclusively29. S: [NO::: (.) not that (.) [thatÕs fine thatÕs30. Ma: [ūMiss Wattsū {whispering in VicÕs ear}31. Mod: (.) but she is kinda pretty_32. V: [UGGHH:: AGGHH {expresses disgust}33. Ma: [YA::H34. W: [ūBritneyū yahoo (.) I have a [poster in my bedroom= {body movements of enthusiasm}35. S: =SO DO I [ūcan we talk about can we justū36. Mod: {gestures vindication of Britney SpearÕs attractiveness to boys}37. V: Stanton Jones (.) is in love (.) with _Miss Watts_ (.) our _art helper {talking deliberately to camera} {Vic cackles, points at Stanton, dances around in his chair}

38. S: I hate you Vic {smiling}39. V: yah huh I gotcha on that one {smiling and dances in his chair}40. Ma: ūsheÕs a ((ÉÉ.. ))ū {to Victor}41. W: ūsheÕs nineteenū {to Victor}

42. S: Victor is loved with Mister Barrow43. V: [IÕm NOT::: {smiling, then makes a pouty face at Stanton, sticks tongue out}44. Mod: [okay okay guys (.) I think (.) didnÕt we have this kind of thing before [once_45. S: [oh yeah46.

QuickTime™ and aDV/DVCPRO - NTSC decompressor

are needed to see this picture.

1. H: like (.) there is like (.) certain things that girls can give you thatguys canÕt (.) you know like I donÕt mean like sexually likewhatever like (.) like if you (.) if youÕre sad about something youcan have a shoulder to lean on or whatever (.) you canÕt do that (.)to your (.) friends you know

2. D:{laughing} hey youÕre gay youÕre like (.) {puts his head on HalÕsshoulder}

3. {boys all laugh}4. H: no not (.) I mean nothing like that (.) you know like I mean like you have to (.) you have

to have someone to _hu::g [to (.) because something you know_

5. D: [I know (.) a GIRL is better cause (.) I dunnocause a girl

6. H: itÕs a (.) just a feeling7. D:itÕs just a girl does (.) they they can say stuff that maybe like a guy

wonÕt _ (.) that a guy wonÕt [say8. H: [guys alway have to act strong around people like

oh you know (.) you have to shed blood before you shed tears and stuff like that9. M: so when what (.) wait (.) what IÕm hearing is that uh when youÕre (.) around guys you

know you canÕt really show your emotions as much as you can [ ((ÉÉ. ))

10. D: [you can but donÕtshow it too muh (.) too often like this kid we know (.) heÕs like he gets jealousof us (.) he gets mad at us (.) cause (.) you know {4 sec looking at H for confirmation}cause you know (.) cause he get jealous heÕs like he be like {shifting up to choked softvoice} how come you can get so many gi::rls and blah blah blah (.) and he be like ah (.)_how come you guys so strong and stuff (.) he get like gets mad at us heÕs like one of thegirls like gets jealous (.) at us even if we donÕt do anything we just [ ((É ))

11. H: [he act towards (.) tobe like us

12. D: he he act he acts too emotional (.) he he sheds his emotion too much (.) heÕs like chump(.) we like we make fun of him like we just joke around like each one of us like (.)he cries(.) he doesnÕt cry but heÕs like {voice upshift} _why do you guys always make fun ofme_

1. H: like (.) there is like (.) certain things that girls can give you that guys canÕt (.) you knowlike I donÕt mean like sexually like whatever like (.) like if you (.) if youÕre sad about something you canhave a shoulder to lean on or whatever (.) you canÕt do that (.) to your (.) friends you know

2. D: {laughing} hey youÕre gay youÕre like (.) {puts his head on HalÕs shoulder}3. {boys all laugh}4. H: no not (.) I mean nothing like that (.) you know like I mean like you have to (.) you have

to have someone to _hu::g [to (.) because something you know_5. D: [I know (.) a GIRL is better cause (.) I dunno cause a girl6. H: itÕs a (.) just a feeling7. D: itÕs just a girl does (.) they they can say stuff that maybe like a guy wonÕt _ (.) that a guy

wonÕt [say8. H: [guys alway have to act strong around people like oh you know (.) you have to

shed blood before you shed tears and stuff like that9. M: so when what (.) wait (.) what IÕm hearing is that uh when youÕre (.) around guys you

know you canÕt really show your emotions as much as you can [ ((ÉÉ.) )

10. D: [you can but donÕt show

it too muh (.) too often like this kid we know (.) heÕs like he gets jealous ofus (.) he gets mad at us (.) cause (.) you know {4 sec looking at H forconfirmation} cause you know (.) cause he get jealous heÕs like he be like{shifting up to choked soft voice} how come you can get so many gi::rlsand blah blah blah (.) and he be like ah (.) _how come you guys sostrong and stuff (.) he get like gets mad at us heÕs like one of the girlslike gets jealous (.) at us even if we donÕt do anything we just [ ((É ))11. H: [he act

towards (.) to be like us12. D:he he act he acts too emotional (.) he he sheds his emotion toomuch (.) heÕs like chump (.) we like we make fun of him like we just jokearound like each one of us like (.)he cries (.) he doesnÕt cry but heÕs like{voice upshift} _why do you guys always make fun of me_

Final Thoughts

• Expressive/Relational forms of emotionality emerge not only in clinical interviews, but surface in mundane everyday talk – though as components of a more complex picture

• They are part of a dynamic interplay between ‘restrictive’ and ‘relational’ discourse positions the boys are “resisting fixity”

• In their discursive development the boys develop more complex forms in maneuvering between these positions (= doing ‘resisting fixity’)

• The necessity of a micro-analytic approach to gain insight into the complexity of these processes

• Relevance for ‘interventions’ and educational processes en large

Many Thanks to:

All the participating boys, and all of the Clark graduate and undergraduate students who worked

on the “Transitioning from Childhood to Adolescence” project

Neill Korobov was supported by an NIH grant (T32HD46423) while a post-doctoral fellow@ UC Santa Cruz

Self-Disclosure + Authenticity

• The REAL Self?• multiple selves

– occasioned in interactive settings– accomplished in interactions– push + pull (“resisting fixity”)