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GRANTING REMAINING UNRESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES

L IlL'l.l1 R Y' Wrfll'F Q 'j"'Y" () I UT HI

HEARIN U~:t ~ L~,[('E Oll'Y

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC LANDS AND SURVEYS UNITED STATES SENATE

SEVENTY-SECOND CONGRESS FIRST SESSION

ON

s. 17, 2272, and S. 4060 BILLS PROPOSING TO GRANT 'VACANT UNRESERVED UNAPPROPRIATED LANDS TO ACCEPTING STATES

AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES

MARCH 15, 16, 19, 24, 29, AND 31, AND APRIL 1 AND 5, 1982

WITH INDEX

Printed for the use of the Committee on Public Lands and Surveys

UNITED STATES

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON: 1932

OOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC LANDS AND SURVEYS

GERALD P. NY]], North Dakota, Ohairman REED SMOOT, Utah. PETER NORBECK, South Dakota. TASKER L. ODD IE, Nevada. PORTER H. DALE, Vermont. BRONSON CUTTING, New Mexico. FREDERICK STEIWER, Oregon. ROBERT D. CAREY, Wyoming.

K]]Y PITTMAN, Nevada. JOHN B. KENDRICK, Wyoming. THOMAS J. WALSH, Montaua. HENRY F. ASHURST, Arizona. ROBERT F. WAGNER, New York. C. ' C •. DILL, Washington. SAJlI G. BRATTON, New Mexico.

D. H. McARTHUR, OIerk INGHAM G. MACK, AII8i8tant Olerk

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OONTENTS

TUESDAY, MARCH 15, 1932

S. 2272 (Mr. Nye, by request-commission bill) _______________________ _ S. ,4060 (Mr. Walsh of Montana) _____________________________________ _ S.17 (Mr. KiUg) ____________________________________________________ _ Letter from Secretary of the Interior, under date of March 14, 1932 ____ _ Letter from Secretary of the Interior, under date of March 14, 1932,

inclosing memorandum discussing some of the details involved in tl. 2272 __________________________________________________ ----------

.statement of Hon. George ,H. Dern, Governor of Utah. before the House Oommittee on the Public Lands, February 13, 1932~ ________________ _

James R. Garfield, chairman Oommittee on the Oonservation and AdminiS-tration of the Public Domain. statement oL ________________________ _

WEDNESDAY, MAROH 16, 1932

James R. Garfield, chairman Committee on the Conservation and AdminiS-

Page. 1 5 9 9

10

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75

tration of the Public Domain, statement of-resumed________________ 87

SATURDAY, MARCH 19, 1932

James R. Garfield, chairman Oommittee on the Oonservation and Admlnis-tration of the Public Domain, further statement oL_________________ 109

W. B. Greeley, secretary West Ooast Lumbermen's ASSOCiation, Seattle, Wash., statement oL_______________________________________________ 117

~~HURSDAY! MARCH 24, 1932

Byron O. Beall, chairman New Mexico State Tax Oommission, Santa Fe, N. Mex., statement of______________________________________________ 130

Thomas Oooper, president Wyoming Wool Growers' ASSOCiation, repre­senting Wyoming Wool Growers' Association and Wyoming Agricul-tural Oouncil, statement oL________________________________________ 139

Perry W. Jenkins, representing the American National Live Stock Asso-ciati,<ln, statement oL______________________________________________ 147

Letter from Hugh A. Brown, executive secretary Oommittee on the Con­servation and Admimstration of the Public Domain, under date of March 22, 1932, inclOSing statements and tables relative to the surveyed and unsurveyed lands______________________________________________ 161

Perry W. Jenkins, representing the American National Live Stock Asso-Ciation, statement of-resumed_____________________________________ 165

Hon. Oharles E. Winter, Gasper. Wyo., statement oL___________________ 175 Franklin Reed, executive secretary SOCiety of American Foresters,

Washington, D. C., statement of____________________________________ 192

TUESDAY, MARCH 29, 1932

Letter from Secretary of the Interior, under date of Marcn 26, 1932, regarding S. 4060 ______ ,____________________________________________ 195

n. Y. Stuart, chief forester, Department of Agriculture, Washington, D. C., statement of _____ , _________________ ~__________________________ 202 G. H. OOllingwood, forester for the Amertcan Forestry Association, Wash-

ington, D.O., statement oL_________________________________________ 21<0

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66 GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIO LANDS TO STATES

The hardest fought battle has been over the question of'subsurface rights. With the passing of the minerals great values will be seen to accure to the State. The lands already received by Wyoming from the Federal Government have yielded a vast revenue. When we consider what will be transferred with twenty-five or twenty-six million acres, the value seems overwhelming. There should be no question at all that the State should accept the grant, but with the ownership will come grave responsibilities and added obligations. To ad­minister these immense values for the benefit of the whole people and not for prIvate interests will reqUire statesmen of the highest order.

The surface value alone will ultimately yield at least $20,00(},000. The sub­surface values, if we give full credit to the report of the Geological Survey, amounts to billions of dollars and should the State continue the policy of the Federal Government in exacting a royalty on these minerals an endowment fund can be built up that will go a long way toward supporting the State government when these minerals shall be developed and utilized.

Such argument may appeal to those who are not interested in the sovereign rights of their State. Many of the States have so long leaned upon Uncle Sam that they feel incapable of being self-sustaining. They would leave the ad­ministration of the public lands in the hands of the Federal Government in order to receive the doles that are incident to Government control.

Senator CAREY. I would like to insert and have made a part of the record House Joint Memorial No.2, adopted by the twentieth legis­lature, special session, -of Wyoming, in December, 1929; also senate joint memorial passed by the Wyoming Legislature in 1929; also a statement by Perry W. Jenkins, in regard to this subject.

The CHAIRMAN. They will be made a part of the record. (The papers referred to are as follows:)

HOUSE JOINT MEMORIAL No.2 ADOPTED BY 'l'HE TWENTIETH LEGISLATURE (Sl'ECIAL SESSION) OF WYOMING, DECEMBER, 1929

Memoralizing the President and the Congress of the United States to cede to the States all unappropriated public -lands together with subsurface minerals and other natural resources

December 14, 1929, introduced. December 14, 1929, read first time. December 14, 1929, referred to committee of the whole. December 14, 1929, delivered to printing committee. Whereas the President of the United States, the Hon. Herbert Hoover, be­

lieves that the most eflieientpolicy of administration of the remaining unre­served and unappropriated public lands can be obtained through the operation of State rather than Federal control· and to this end has suggested that these unreserved and unappropriated public lands be ceded to the 11 public-land States in which they are situated; and

Whereas Wyoming has demonstrated by a wise administrative policy of its State lands the feasibility of the President's proposal that those in close touch and sympathy with the task are best qualified to execute a policy looking to the best interests of the people of the State and the United States i and

Whereas we are in hearty accord with the President of the United States in his wise policy of simplifying the National Government through the utiliza­tion of State agencies in handling the problems and administration of those policies in which the States are directly interested: Therefore be it

Resolved, '£hat we, the Twentieth Wyoming Legislature, in special session assembled, -express to _the President our appreCiation of hIS statesmanlike and sympathetic understanding of this subject so vital to the development of the public-land States and that we pledge our support to the President, the Secretary of the Interior, and to the Commission on Administration and Con­servation of the public domain in studying the proposal and its effect upon each State and the National Government: be it

Resolved, That we call upon Congress to enact such legislation as may be necessary to cede to the several public-land States without reservation such

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GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES 67

nnappropriated public lands with subsoil minerals with the royalties and rE~venues derived therefrom; be it

Reso-wed, That we plndge ourselves to the pOlicy of· the orderly develop­ment and conservation of mineral rl'sources and the application of the reve­nues to the purposes of internal improvements of the State such as the sup­port of adequate.)school system, the reclamation of arid and semiarid lands, the development of wate,r power, the protection of waterSheds, reforestation of: mountain areas,· and forestration of privately controlled areas, conserva­tion of grasses and further development of forage on public lands, and any other uses which may lIle for the benefit of the people of the State and Nation; be it

Resolved,That we further pledge ourselves to a policy of cooperation with the Federal Government and our sister States in aU matters in which inter­e8ts are mutual in working out equitable agreements on such matters o:f flood, reclamation, diviSion of water, allocation of power as may arise from time to time in the development of the resources of these public-land States; lle it

Resolved, That we further pledge the State of Wyoming to the enactment of such laws and the adoption and execution of such poliCies of government as will best secure the carrying out of these principles of State control as sug­gl!sted by the President of the United States; be it

Fwrther resolved, That certified copies of this joint memorial be forwarded to the President of the United States, the Secretary of the Interior, the Com­mission on Administration and Conservation of the Public Domaln, and to each member of the Wyoming -delegation in the Congress of the United States.

Approved December 19, 1929.

-"f.,;t SI!NATE JOINT MEMORIAL (S. J. No.6) TO CONGBElSS R!llLATING TO THE DICLIVI!lllY

TO THEl STATJ!lS OF ALL UNAl'l'ROPRIATEIO PunLIO LANDS

February 7, 1927, introduced. February 7, 1927, read first time. FellrUary 7, 1927, referred to committee No. 15. February 7, 1929, deliv,ered to printing committee. (This resolution was presented by President Perry W. Jenkins, of the Wyo­

ming State Senate. -and was unanimously adopted by both houses and was followed by an appropriation of $10,000 for the purpose of carrying out the objects of the memorial.) .

Be it res-olved by the Senate of the State (If Wyominll, the House of Represerlr ta,tives ·conourrinll, That the Congress of the United States be memorlal:ized as follows:

Whereas the State of Wyoming is composed of lands acquired undE~r foul' treaties: (1) LouiSiana, 1803, (2) Texas, 1845, (3) Oregon, 1864, and (4) Mexico, 1848;

Whereas in the Louisiana Purchase treaty, covering land out of which most of the State is taken, it is provided:

" The inhabitants of the ceded territory shall be incorporated into the Union of -the United States, and admitted as soon as possible according to the principles of the Federal Constitution to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of the citizens of the United States; and in the meantime, they shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property, and the religion which they profess."

Whereas in the act of admission of Wyoming, approved July 10, 1890, the enactment clause reads:

" Be it enacted, etc., That the State of WYoming is hereby declared to be a State of the United States of America and is hereby declared admitted into the Union on an equal footing with the original States in all respects whatever and that the constitution which the people of Wyoming have formed for them­selves be, and the same is hereby accepted, ratified, and confirmed."

Whereas the ordinances approved by the constitutional convention of Wyom­ing, provided in section 3:

"The people inhabiting this State do agree and declare that they j~orever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within the ooundaries thereof, and to all lands lying within said limits owned or held oy any Indian or Indian tribes, and that .until the title thereto shall have been extinguished by the United States, the same shall be and remain subject to_

68 GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIO LANDS TO STA'rES

the disposition of the United States and that said Indian lands shall remain under absolute jurisdiction and control of the Oongress of the United States."

Whereas the Constitution of the United States nowhere grants any authority to Congress to buy or hold any territory" except in article 1, section 8, para­graph 17;

" To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever over such districts (not exceeding 10 miles square) as may be by cession of partiCUlar States and the acceptance of Congress become the seat of Government of the United States and to exerCise like authority over all places purchased, by the consent of the legislature of the State in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock yards, and other needful buildings. And to make nil laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States or in any department or officer thereof."

Whereas it is set forth in section 3 of Article IV of the Federal Constitution: "The Congress shall have power to dispose of, and make all needed l'ules

a nd regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States."

Whereas the ordinances of 1787, establishing the Northwest Territory, out of which was carved Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin, pro­vided as follows:

" '~rhe legislature; of those districts or new States shall have powers (among others) 'to provide also for the establishment of States and permanent govern­ment therein, and for their admission to a share in the Federal councils on an equnl foot'ng with the original Stntes, at as enrly perioils as may be consistent with the general interest * * *. The legislatures of those districts or new States shall never interfere with the primary disposal of the soil by the United Stntes in Congress assembled, nor. with any regulations Congress may find necessary for securing the title in such soil to the bona fide purchasers. " '" * And whenever any of the said States· shall have sixty thousand inhabitants therein, such State shall be admitted, by its delegates, into the Congress of the United States, on an equal footing with the original States in all respects whatever.' "

In the case of Coyle v. Smith (221U. S. 559), the Supreme Court, referring to the case of Pollard's Lessee v. Hagen, used the follOWing language:

"The plain deduction from this case is that when a new State is admitted into the Union, it is so ailmitted with all of the powers of soverignty and jurisdiction which pertain to the Original States, and that such powers may not be constitutionally diminished, impaired, or shorn away by any conditions, compacts, or stipulations embraced in the act under which the new State came into the Union."

Whereas it was said by the Supreme Court in Pollard's Lessee v. Hagen (15 U. S. S. C. p. 391) :

" We think a proper examination of this subject will show that the United States never held any municipal soverignty, jurisdiction or right of soil in and for the territory, of which Alabama or any of the new States were formed, except for temporary purposes, and to execute the trusts created by the acts of the Virginia and Georgia Legislatures, and the deeds of cession executed by them to the United States, and the trust created by the treaty with the French Republic of the 30th of April, 1803, ceding Louisiana."

Whereas tbe power so given in the Federal Constitution to dispose of the territory of the. United States, whatever such territory may have been, was intended to be confined to the territory which at the time of the founding of the Federal Government, belonged to or was claimed by the United States, and was within the boundaries as settled by the treaty with Great Britain, and can have no influence upon a territory afterwards acquired from a foreign government (which acqUirements was not even within the purview of the Constitution as was shown by Thomas Jefferson when he sought to secure ratification thereof after the purchase was made), such constitutional proviSions as to disposing of territory, being a special provision for a known and particular territory and to meet a then present emergency and no more;

Whereas the same soverignty was given to the States, which were carved out of the lands covered by the LouiSiana Purchase, as was given to the States which were carved out of the Northwest ~'erritory; and

Whereas the territory covered by the Louisiana Purchase when obtained from France contained no population fit to be aSSOCiated together and admitted as a

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GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES 69

State, and it was therefore absolutely necessary to hold possession of it as.a territory belongmg to the United States until it was settled and inhabited. by a civilized community capable of self-government and in a condition to be ad­mUted on equal terms with the other States as a member of the U!1lon, and was acquired by the General Government as the representative and trustee of the people of the United States to be held only as such trustee until such time only as it had sufficient population to assume the position to which it was destined among the States of the Union;

Whereas as was said by Senator Hendricks of Indiana in Congress as far baek as January,28, 1928, expDaining why the States acceded to the deprivation of sovereignty by the IPederal Government 111 organic acts; that the Territories amaous to gain a political elevation, anxious to gain the level of equality with the' original States, did not rightly consider the immense saorifices they were making for the name, while they were not really acquiring the substance of equality and independence; and

Whereas the Senate Public Lands Committe in 1832, after a comprehensive survey and study of the public lands, made a formal report, in WhiCh it said among other things: "Our pledge would not be redeemed by merely dividing the surface into States land giving them names"; supplemented by Congress­man Winter of Wyoming when he said, "We ask the status of States of a Uniion, not provinces of a central power"; and

Whereas Chief Justice Marshall, in Martin v. Hunter (1 Wheaton 325) ruled that the sovereign powers vested in the State governments by their respective constitutions remain unaltered and unimpaired except so far as they are granted to'the Government of the United States, and their apparent graut to the Unied States in the. organic acts, was unconstitutional and there­fore void and not binding on the States; and

VV'hereas we search in vain for any clause in the Federal Constitution which prohibits to the States the exercise of any powers connected with the pUblic lands, and the control asserted by the Federal Government is a growth of it system nowhere even contemplated by the founders of our Government and in violation of the sovereignty of States which came in to the l!'ederal Uni.on on an equal footing with the original States in all respects whatever;

Whereas the present public-land policy of the Federal Government, whiCh Waf! inaugurated in or about the year 1905, under the present system of reserv­ing to the Federal Government title to the public lands and natul'!ll resources, has resulted in a condition whiCh threatens the continued progress and .pros­perIty of 11 States of the Union known generally as semiarid or public land States, same being as follows: Wyoming, Colorado, New MeXiCO., Arizona, Utah, Montana, Idaho, California, Oregon, and Washington, in wll1ch the said Federal Government now retains title to more than 586,000 square miles of public land, not including Indian reservations or parks.

Whereas this area amounts in the' aggregate to one-half the total land areas of these aforesaid States, and that of this area about 205,000 square miles have been placed in forest reserves, 0,,1'1' 75l)00 square miles in coal, oU, phosphate, anll other reserves, leaVing; only about 300,000 square miles of unappropl'lated and unreserved public lands;

Whereas this unreserved public land consists mainly of desert and mountains which are of little value as agricultural land but of great potential value for milling and grazing, contal.ning forests, coal, Oil, and other natural resonrces, but which have greatly diminished actual value as long as they remain in public ownership;

Whereas of the 48 sovereign States the inhabitants of 37 own and have always owned all their lands and their State sovereignty and autllOrity covers every natnral resource within their borders, thus plaCing tlle 11 States afore­mentioned on an unequal basis, with other States to the untold finanCial injury of the inhabitants thereof;

\l1hereas this immense landed territory now held by tile Federal Govern­ment, and from which it is collecting rents and royalties, indicates a definite purpose not to dispose of such lands nor to put them under the Jurisdiction of the States in which they lie', thereby preventing said lands from becoming lPOPU­lated and their resources from being developed and denymg to tile States tile rIght to tax them or to make laws for them;

Whereas this said policy of the Federal Government, now effective, that of permitting the withdrawal of large areas of public lands from taxation and reserving to itself all natural resources including water, power Sites, timber,

70 GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES

and minerals, limits to the aforesaid 11 States the possibility of raisIng suffi­cient revenue to meet their rapidly increasing State expenses, while the value of such natural resources so withdrawn remains far in excess of the total land valuation of that part of the entire State which is now privately owned:

Whereas the 11 States heretofore enumerated have receiVed from the Federal Government two sections out of every township for school purposes, ,and 1n every case this trust has been properly and profitably administered, which demonstrates that individual States can, and will if permitted, administer theIr public lands and natural resources' with justice and profit;

Whereas the great bulk of available area for settlement by homestead under existing laws regulating the settlement of agricultural land having now been taken up and occupied, several States have reached their limit in lands capable of oearing taxation, thus checking further development of the entire State Oy lack of taxable property;

Whereas we desire the trust to be fulfilled just as it was with OhiO, IndIana, Iowa, Nebraska, and Alabama, and other States originally situated, as are the public-land ,States now;

Whereas we confidently believe that the prayer of this joint memorial will appeal, not only to the remaining 10 public-land States Similarly situated, but also to all other States of the United States, as fouIided on justice and equality;

Therefore we, the Senate and House of Representatives of the State of Wyoming, hereby memorialize the Oongress of the United States to enact such legislation as will cause the return by the United States to the States compris­ing said Government of all vacant and unappropriated lands, together with all natural resources, including water power, power sites, forests, and minerals now held in trust by the Federal Government within the borders of any of the said States; Oeit further

Re8olved, '.rhat engrossed copies of this memorial and request be sent to the President of the United States, to the President of the United States Senate, to the Speaker of the UniteLl States House of Representatives, to the Senators from Wyoming in the Oongress of the United States; Hon. Frances E. Warren and Hon. John B. Kendrick, and our Representative in said Oongress, Hon. Oharles E. Winter, asking their aid in bringing the oDject of this memorial before Oongress; be it further

Re8olved, That engrossed copies of this memorial Oe sent to the governors of each of the remaining public-land States, asking them to place before the legIslatures of said States this memorial, urge the adoption of this or a similar memorial; and request their cooperation in securing favorable action thereon by the Oongress of the United States and also their cooperation in a convention to be held at some convenient place for the purpose of uniting to carry out the purpose of this memorial; and for such other purposes as may seem fitting to ,such convention.

WHAT WYOMING DESIRES WITH REGARD TO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN

By Perry W. Jenkins

At the present time it might be well to set forth the attitude which Wyoming takes on the public-land question. r.rrue, it is impossible to know what would be the result of a vote of the people on every pOint, but our legislature having met and taken unanimous action on certain resolutions and our newspapers having already taken a very definite stand, we might be considered as being in a pOSition to express in general terms the desires of the people of the State.

The questions involved will relate to: I. The unappropriated and unre8erved pubUo dom,ain, of which there are in

the State of Wyoming 17,035,537 acres. II. Sub 8urfaoe minerals, of which there have been withdrawn: (a) Ooal,

2,260,000 acres; (b) oil land, 967,323 acres; (0) phosphate lands, 9!t4,969 acres; (d) oil shale, none withdrawn.

III. Fore8ts: 8,548,234 acres withdrawn. IV. Indian re8er'Vations: 833,554 acres withdrawn. V. National park8: 2,142,720 acres withdrawn. VI. Stook drivewaY8: 1,207,353 acres withdrawn. VII. Water: (a) Reservoir sites, 118,723 acres withdrawn; (b) Indian power

sites, 58,800 acres withdrawn; (0) power sites, 106,884 acres withdrawn; (d) public water, 79,785 acres withdrawn.

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VIII. Reolamation. IX. Military maneuver Iwound8, of which there are 9,237 acres . :X. Highway8. XI. Flood oontrol.

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We will now take up each of these topics and discuss the disposal of the area involved.

1. The unappropriated and unreserved public domain should pass to the State with a complete title conveying everythlng from the surface down; tlllS beIng thl~ title that has been recognized for centuries. The funds derived from the sale of the land and royalties from mlnerals to be placed in a permanent fund to be invested in interest-producing securities yielding a fair rate of interest, such as farm loans, State, murl1cipal, School, irrigation district, and other Oonds of like nature.. The interest: only to be for the following objects in their order:

(a) Education. (b) Range development. (0) Development of highways across the public domain. (d) Such other internal improvements as may be deemed necessary by the

legislature. n. Of the reserved mIneral lands the State desires a title as in the case of

the public domain, Out with stipulations yielding to the Federal 'Government t1w present rate of royalties for the purposes to which they are now devoted' and until the present program is completed ,or for a term of years, at the end of whICh time the State's title shall become complete. The oil shale, Deing a mineral to which extensive manufacturing processes must be applied, Bhould pass to the State. In the stipulations the Federal Government may retain the right to control orderly output and may require provisions for conservation and proper disposal of th(~ returns. '

III. The administration of the forests could well be placed under the con· trol of the State, but such a transfer might not Oe wise at the present time. The State will, however, look forward to the time when it has developed its own forest system and the Federal Government could be relieved of the ad­mInistration of the forests with proper guarantee as to conservation. All purely grazing lands outside of timber lands should be eliminated from the forests and be placed under the control of the State on the same terms as th'B public domain.

IV. It is evident that the Indian reservations will ultimately follOW the course of the public domain, and as fast' as these areas are alloted to in­diyiduals or thrown open to settlement they should pass under the jurisdic­tion of the State.

V. The national parks are perhaps best go,verned by the Federal Govern­ment, being national in their nature. We oppose any further additions being made to the parks or any n,ew parks beIng created without the consent of the legislature. If the State :is to exercise civil jurisdiction and control over park areas, privately owned property within the park should be subjected to the same State taxes as like property elsewhere in the State.

VI. The stock driveway reservations should pass under the control of the State in the same manner as the public domain.

VII. The waters of the State, by State constitutional proviSion and con­grl~ssional action, belong to the State. For that reason the administration and control should rest with the State. This applies particularly to waters havlllg their source within the State.

{a) All reservoir sites shOUld pass to the State and should be subject to the same condemnation proceedings as exist with regard to present State. lands.

{b) Indian power sites shOUld be under the control of. the State, as the State will look forward to the transfer of the other Indian lands to the State.

(o) The power sites, outside of Indian reservations, should pass to the State with proper guarantee as to conservation and protection.

{d) All water and public watering holes should pass under tile jurisdiction of the State.

VIII. The wor!k of reclamation has been conducted at the expense of the public land States. In the inception of the idea the royalties from the minerals and lands were placed in a fund to be expended for the benefit of the State, out later these funds were consolidated for the benefit of reclamation. We believe that the present royalties from the fuel minerals should be used as

72 GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES

heretofore in the -work of reclamation until the present program is completed, at wllich time the royalties and revenues within a State shall be expended by the State for the reclamation of the public domain and the assistance of pri­vately owned irrigation projects. The reclamation fund which may then exist, through accumulation of royalties or the return of invested funds, shall be turned over to the States for the development of reclamation, power, storage, and flood control. When these objects have been accomplished the fund shall be at the disposal of the State legislature for internal improvements.

IX. The military and maneuver gronnds being national in their purpose sllOUld remain under the control of the Federal Government. The same applies to naval Oils and other values appropriated for the national defense.

X. The highway program as it now exists shall be continued for a period of 10 years, at which time the State shall take over the highways and construct and maintain the same out of revenues derived from taxation, rentals, and royalties.

XI. Flood control, being in its nature a national problem, should be under the administration of the Federal Government. The right to condemn and take over property for reservoirs, Canals, distributors, sluiceways, and other works should be vested in the Federal Government, but when such reservoirs, canals, and so forth are to be used in the generation of power and for domestic and irrigation uses, the State Should cooperate with the Federal Government in the construction of such water works.

The conditions being so varied throughout the 11 major public-land States, the same stipulations and provisions may not be advisable in every instance. We desire that the lands be offered to the States under as unrestricted and unlimited conditions ,as possible and the individual States be permitted to accept or re.ject as the legiSlature may determine; that is, one State may take over the public domain even if others see fit to leave within their borders under the administration of the Federal Government. We believe that a transfer of the public domain will not onlY' enable the States to accomplish the purpose for which States are organized, but will give them the jurisdiction and sovereignty guuranteed them under the treaties and the deCisions of OUr Supreme Court and will relieve the National Government of much perplexing and burdensome legiSlation. Our l~ederal Govel'llment will then be Simplified while the State will come into her own and will grow and prosper under self rule.

The conservation and care of the mineral resources will best be worked out by creating a local interest in their present and future values. We have only to study the success WhiCh Wyoming has achieved in the administration of the public lands already committed to her care to see that the State will not waste these resources, but that conservation will attain its highest aim. Had all the public domain been placed in the hands of the State as was section- 16 and section 36 of every township, it is fair to believe that the endowment fund which is now $20,000,000 would· have been at least $350,000,000, invested in loan.s for internal improvements, which would mean that the settlement of the Stute would have gone forward and WYoming would not have been held back for want of funds for domestic development and expanSion.

PERRY W. JENKINS, Oomiln'ission on Oonservation arna

Adml4nistraUon of Publio Domain.

The CHAIRMAN, Before we undertake the consideration of the let­ter from the Secretary of the Interior, with his memorandum on this /3ubject, are there other petitions, memorials, or letters that mem­bers of the committee want to make a part of the record at this point? If not, we will proceed to the consideration of the letter under date of March 14.

Under date of March 14, Secretary Wilbur addresses the Com­mittee on Public Lands and Surveys as follows:

(The letter referred to has been previously incorporated in the record; see page 10.)

The CHAIRMAN. Will the committee desire that I read the memo­randum?

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GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES 73

Senator WALSH of lV[ontana. I would like to have it read. The CHAIRMAN. Before we proceed with the reading of the memo­

randum offered by the Secretary, permit the Chair to, in~icate that Secretary Hyde, of the Agriculture Department, has mdlCated that WIB will not be waiting many hours for a report from that department.

We will have the clerk read this memorandum from the Secretary. (The memorandum from the Secretary of the Interior was read

by the clerk of the committee, the memorandum having been previ-ously incorporated in the record; see page 10.) .

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Walsh, as one. member of the comml-ttee, if it i,s agreeable to you, I should like to have just a rough idea of how the two bills-the commission bill and your bill differ.

Senator W ALSHOf Montana, The real, substantial difference, Mr. Chairman, is that under my bill mineral lands are granted as well as the nonminerallands.

The CHAIRMAN. The surface rights and mineral rights are all included?

Senator WALSH of Montana. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. That, in substance, is the main difference? Senator WALSH of Montana. The argument of the Secretary

against the inclusion of the mineral lands is all based apparently upon the effect it would have upon the reclamation fund and the reclamation policy. That is the objection of the Secretary to the inclusion of the mineral lands. That is taken care af in the bill offered by me by a provision to the effect that the State shall turn over to the Federal Government any money received from the land, exactly the same amount, 521;2 per cent to go into the reclam!;ttion fUlnd. '1

The CHAIRMAN. So there wOUlld be no difference in the returns to that fund whatever ~

Senator WAI,SH of Montana. No; the fund would continUle just exactly the same, except the sales and collections would be made by the State and turned over instead of by the Government. ._

Senat.or C.<l.REY. The State would have 10 per cent for administra-tion. ,

Senator WALSH of Montana. That is correct. Senator KENDRICK. May I suggest to those of you who have lis­

tened carefully to the reading of this report of the Secretary of the Interior that you must have noted the apparent differences in the benefits accruing to the several States in which a reclamation fund is used, and the discrepancies between their contributions to that fund and the benefits received from it. Because of this fact, at some place in our proceedings I want to offer an amendment; probably to Senator W-alsh's bill, that will more evenly distribute those benefits. Whether it will be in the way of an amendment to employ the funds contributed by a State to reclamation within the borders of that State or whether it will be some other plan of dis­tributing the benefits to the State, more in proportion to their con­tributions, will have to be determined later. However, at this point I think it worth while to say Wyoming would be easily pleased if she were content with the operation of the bureau under present

74 GRANTING UNRESERVED PUBLIQ LANDS TO STATES

conditions. The Secretary points out here that Wyoming has con­tributed $26,000,000 or $27,000,000 more than she has received in return, and some of these millions have been applied in the devel­opment of sister States that have contributed next to nothing to the fund.

The CHAIRMAN. The same thing is true of my State. We have contributed far more to the fund than we have received out of it.

Senator KENDRICK. That involves an inequity that we might very well consider before We go further.

Senator WALSH of Montana. I ought to say in answer to your inquiry, Mr. Chairman, both of the bills provide for the cr.eation of a commission to determine whether other areas ought to be added to the forests or other reservations., or whether certain areas now in­cluded in the national forests orI'eservations ought not to be excluded therefrom. Both bills provide for such permission, although on a little different basis; but on reflection I might say, as I said on the floor, the bill tendered by me was drawn by the commissioner of public lands for the State of Montana, who was a member of the President's commission, and he has given very. earnest thought to it, but on reflection I have seen no occasion whatever -for the creation of such cOIhmission, and as I am at present advised I shall ask leave to amend the bill by taking out of it those provisions in relation to the appointment or creation of such a commission.

The' national forests were created way back in the nineties and so nlllch land was included under the general-authority grantbf Con­gress that Congress stepped in and prOVIded that no other national forests should be created except by act of Congress. Since that time from time to time areas have been added to the national forests by act of Congress, until the general belief is we have got just about as much land in national forests as we need in the national forests, or ought to have in the national forests, and if any lands are trans­ferred to the States which would seem ought to be included in the national forests I am very sure that the people of the States will recognize the situation of affairs and will he quite willing to recede those to the Federal Government.

I do not myself see occasion whatever for the creation now, as I am advised of the matter, of a commission to determine whether the national forests ought to be extended or reduced.

Senator ASHURST. I should like to ask Senator Walsh in relation to his bill S. 4060, it will be observed in the preamble .01' the title it reads: "To grant. vacant, unreserved, unappropriated, nonmineral lands to accepting States "-- - --

Senator WALSH of Montana. The "nonmineral" should be stricken.

Senator ASHURST. Turning to the text ot the bill, on page 2, line 2, section 1, " Subject to the terms, conditions, and exceptions here. inafter stated, there is hereby granted to each of the States" or so­and-so-line 8, " all the unappropriated and unreserved public lands, including the minerals therein." -

Undoubtedly the typographical error has cropped up in the first line of the preamble. The word "nonmineral" should be stricken

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GRANTING UNJaESERVED PUBLIC LANDS TO STATES 75,

out.. I think a great deal of our confusion has arisen because some­body reading it would read the first line of the preamble. The bill introduced by Senator Walsh of Montana does grant to the accepting States all the minerals, base, precious, and rare. That is your view, is it not ~

Senator WALSH of Montana. Exactly. Senator ASHURST. That, in my judgment, is a very important, a

very much better suggestion than others we have heard. The CHAIRMAN. All those matters will be ironed out. I thinkwe

are prepared now to heltr Mr. Garfield.

STlllTEMENT OF JAMES R. GARFIELD, CHAIRMAN COMMITTEE ON THE CONSERVATION' AND ADMINISTRATION OF THE PUBLIC DOMAIN

Mr. GARFIELD. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, in the presentation of the report of the commission that was appoiIited by the President I wish to call attention briefly to some of the basic facts upon which judgment must be founded in the discussion and consideration of the measure that is now before the Senate.

It is inevitable in the study of so vast a subject as the public do­main that there should have arisen a great deal of misunderstanding, misapprehension, regarding the history of the acquisition and dis­position of the public domain and regarding the effect of the :various methods that have been adopted by Congress for the disposition of the domain.~, ,

I have brought here to-day two maps, one the general map of the United States, with which you are all familial', which shows the origins of the acquisitions of the public domain by the Federal Gov­ernment.

It is interesting because of the fact that the basic acts of Congress in the disposition of the public domain necessarily depended upon the forms of acquisition of the public domain.

You will recall in the :6.rst instance the Colonies along the seaboard, the thirteen Colonies, had extensive grants from the foreign coun­tries of England, France, and of Spain. They were indeterminent . in character as to boundary, and the western areas had been wholly, of course, unsurveyed and in many instances hardly explored, but nevertheless at the end of the War of the Revolution the va:dous Colonies ceded to the new Federal Government all of their rights in the area, whatever it might be, that had been claimed theretoJeore by the English Crown,~nd ~hose areas were granted by the Sta,tes

l for what purpose ~ PrlmarIly to rid the Federal Government of the difficulties of the determination of the rights of the different COlonies, and, secondly., to provide the Federal Government with some assets from which they could pay the expenses of the Revolu­tion. Therefore the Federal Government became instantly by !Ces­sion of the States the owner of land lying clear through to the borders of the then known West, the Mississippi River, and extend­ing northwest into the unknown area along the line of the Mis­sissippi.

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