Why White Americans Are Racists

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Abagond

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Why white Americans are racist

Mon 11 Feb 2008 by abagond

(http://nl.tinypic.com

/view.php?pic=23m338j&s=5)Why are white people in America racist?How did they get that way?

What makes them look down on blacks? I am not an expert, but I have thought about it quite a bit. Here

is how I make sense of it:

It does not come from television though that does not help it comes from the past.

It comesfrom the days when whites had blacks as slaves . For whites to feel good about keeping

them as slaves they had to believe certain things about black people.

If they believed that blacks were their equals then making them into slaves would be a crime. But if

whites were better than blacks then making blacks into slaves was a good thing . White people

made that argument back then.

white Americans are racist | Abagond http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/02/11/why-white-ameri

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So it became a convenient lie, a lie that much of American society was built on.

Skin colourwas notused as an excuse till the 1660s. Before that it was religion. So having slaves

came first, the lie came second.

The trouble was only half of America was built on that lie . So in the North you had people like

Lincoln and others who wanted to free the slaves. They saw it for the crime that it was.

But the slaves were freed long ago and, besides, most white people come from families that neverowned slaves either they are not from the South or their families were too poor back then to own

slaves. So why did the lie live on?

It lived on among whites, and lived on most powerfully among poor whites, because it kept them fro

being at the bottom of society. If blacks were not at the bottom, they would be. So the lie helped them

It helped them to find work and feed their families.

It lived on among well-to-do whites too, though not as strongly . They needed the lie not so much t

feed their families but to feel good about living in a country where blacks were at the bottom.

By and large people do not sit down and come up with their beliefs about society for themselves andthen go out to right its wrongs. Instead they barely think about it at all they just believe whatever their

parents and teachers and television tell them. But their parents, teachers and television have alread

made their peace with society as it is and its lies, which they pass on to the young.

Some whiteshave experiences growing up that make them question such beliefsabout race,but

most do not. Their world is too white to begin with for that.

Racism does not seem to be as strong among young whites as old ones . That is because thecivi

rights movementmade white America question its beliefs and change to some degree. The growth of

the black middle class and unskilled labour pouring in from Mexico and elsewhere also makes the lie

less necessary than it was. But it is far from dead.

See also:

Race in America (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2006/10/07/race-in-america/)

How white people think (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/how-white-people-think/)

A guide to Anglos (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/a-guide-to-anglos/)

The black middle class in America (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/the-black-middle-

class-in-america/)

white guilt (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/white-guilt/)

growing up white (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/growing-up-white/)Why whites are blind to their racism (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/why-whites-

are-blind-to-their-racism/)

How to end racism (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/how-to-help-end-racism/)

Posted in 2008, America, race | 128 Comments


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on Mon 11 Feb 2008 at 22:42:0

128 Responses

Gorgeous Black Women

I agree mostly, except I question whether the civil rights movement made them question their

beliefs. For the most part, I believe many lear n to censor it. All my non-white friends and

former classmates will readily admit to all the screwed up things their parents or grandparentswould say about people of other races. Those conversations, all lighthearted since those views cam

from ignorance and not hatred, made us all confront and deal with our own prejudices because even

if you disagree with those views, on some level, it sticks.

For some white people, its clear that the complete refusal to do any sort of soul searching makes it

impossible to change their views for the better. Yes, I am still prejudiced but Im aware of my

prejudices and I know that I have no right to make anyone else feel bad because of my own issues.

This is why covert racism runs rampant. I would rather deal with blatant racism than the covert form

A German guy I went to school said in very clear terms that Jewish people should just get over theHolocaust and quit with all the guilt trips. After all, why should he have to deal with crap that some

people from his grandparents generation did? Basically, get over it already and quit your bitching. I

definitely think this is how white Americans perceive slavery, how Japanese people view the

atrocities in Nanking, etc. Its so much bigger in this country because it went on for so long in the

south as well as the north (though they turned it way down compared to the south) and because this

country was built on that. The forefathers who committed and enabled these atrocities are

celebrated. The kids learn about them in history class year after year after year yet the sugar coated

version of all the horrible things they did in the process are apparently too icky to deal with until your

adolescence. We have a holiday to celebrate Christopher Columbus, a man who rewarded his crew

by giving them Native American tweens and teens to rape. We see the faces of slave owners every

time we open our wallets. I dont think anyone can celebrate these men and give a whitewashed

version of American history without dehumanizing African-American people. I say this as an African

woman.


Fast forward to 2 min 18 secs


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on Mon 11 Feb 2008 at 22:44:0

on Mon 11 Feb 2008 at 23:46:2


oh, and 1 min. If you have time, watch the whole thing. Your post reminded me of it.

Wade Phillips

I find it funny that you enlightend people can sit here and ponder what makes European-

Americans racist by making racist comments of your own. Do you want to know what is

causing European-Americans to become racist now..even if not being racist in the past? Here

you goFirst, Whites are finished with the term White Guilt. It is time you come to grips with what

makes the black community as bad as it is. Second, Whites are tired of listening to you and white

liberals harp about a color blind society and about Dr. Kings ideals when all that comes out of black

mouths anymore is how blacks have to protect them selves and how bad whites are. Third, it is a reaproblem that whites have to read between the lines everytime a murder is commited by a black

person against a white person. Reversed it is front page reading and the white on black thing is

hyped up. When it a black on white crime which it is 99% of the time it is covered up and the black

killer is protected by other black,(look at the city hall shooting in Mo.)There is Many more example

of hushed up black on white crime, but thankd to blogs it is becoming more of a known thing. Every

time a black man kills whites he is considered a hero..the whites deserved it. Well..let me tell you a

lot of whites are tired of it and are becoming more vocal about it, which angers people like you

because they no longer have the shame of being white that you all so love to heap on us.

I know the family of one of the murder victims in Kirkwood..they are destroyed and yet the media tellthe world their family member deserved to die because a black man did not get what he thought he

deserved from whitey. Every time these crimes go unreported more whites search for the truth and

when they find it they become more hostile to blacks..that is the new reality in American..white

racism will grow and grow because people like you and the media cause it by throwing stones at a

glass house.

One more thing..another huge addition to the end of white guilt is all this one sided, Diversity

training..everytime a large group of whites go in to get Diversified..more and more come out sick and

tired of hearing how bad they are..your own Diversity plans are causing more racist feelings then you

could possibly understand. If race could be talked about without a guilt factor then maybe just mayb


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on Mon 11 Feb 2008 at 23:51:2

on Tue 12 Feb 2008 at 17:16:5

on Tue 12 Feb 2008 at 17:17:0

on Tue 12 Feb 2008 at 17:17:1

on Tue 12 Feb 2008 at 18:21:1

we could start to healbut that is not what you want is it? Then you cannot blame all your problems

on us and actually take a soul searching trip and solve your own problems..I think you all might just

be frightened by what you find..the problems black american has is self imposed. Your right in one

respect it is going to get worse..because people like you would rather sit here and bad mouth

whitey then actaully sit down with whitey and try to work things out..the end of the U.S. is on its

way..and many many people of all races are going to die..it is a shame we could not end it now.

We are all to blame!

Wade Phillips

One more thing..I would like to read a blog from you explaining why black people are racist?

Should be enlightening..a little soul searching would be good for you..take a look in a mirror

and you will see what a racist looks like, my dear.

abagond

To Wade:

White racism runs much deeper than you seem to know. So deep, in fact, you do not evenseem to see your own racism: When it a black on white crime which it is 99% of the time. That is

simply not true and only becomes believable if you buy into some of the worst ideas white people

have about blacks.

New York, for example, has plenty of black crime, but the people there live such separate lives that

whites are killed mainly by other whites, not by blacks. From my own experience in that city, the

police do not seem to mind much if blacks kill each other but they are careful to protect white lives

and property. So what you are saying is a racist fantasy of the worst sort.

abagond

To Gorgeous:

The civil rights movement has had an effect: the Jim Crow sort of racism is unthinkable now.

That is progress. But, of course, the north-east where we both live was largely untouched by that

period of history (apart from the whole busing thing).

abagond

To Gorgeous:

Thanks for the video. I love Gabrielle Union.

Wade Phillips

When I said 99% of the time I meant that 99% of the time black on white crime is not reported

by the media. My beef is not with black people..my beef is with white liberals who embrace

and cultivate anger.

I am proud of my European roots and I teach them to my childred every time I can..they are proud of

their ancestors and I will not allow white liberals or self serving blacks to change history and igonore


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on Sun 23 Mar 2008 at 21:00:4

on Mon 24 Mar 2008 at 22:39:0

on Fri 18 Apr 2008 at 08:12:1

the fantastic things they did with what they had to do it with. If I am wrong for that then I am wrong I

will not apologize for the past..every ethnic group has a very ugly past behind it..


You seem to be changing the past and the present because black on white crimes.

You can be proud of your roots without whitewashing it or ignoring facts. I will give you this:

youre certainly not the first nor will you be the last person to try to gloss over the ugly facts.

I am very proud of my ethnic group, my homeland and my continent. I dont view it through

rose-colored glasses and it is my responsibility to see the issues and work to fix them. I spent nearly

8 years of my childhood in my home country but I was born in the US and have spent the other year

here. To ignore history, its impact on the present and try to will it to go away surely hasnt worked

and it is very un-American. All those rights werent granted just so we could just know about them or

to have moral high ground. Its a result of the persecution of Puritans and the stranglehold that the

UK had on the forefathers. The government doesnt necessarily have to lead in social change. The

government can set the standards for social desirability but they cant change whats in your heart.

Thats a decision you make when you acknowledge that problems do exist.

My African social circle regularly bashed African-Americans (and European-Americans and Asian-

Americans and Muslims and pretty much everyone outside our social circle). It wasnt until I became

an adult that I felt comfortable calling them on it. Long before that, I decided that this clashed with m

personal beliefs and I did a lot of unlearning. There are conflicts between 1st and 2nd generation

Africans & West Indians in America and African-Americans. We talk acknowledge it, debate it and

work at fixing it.

That all groups have major flaws doesnt make this moot. Not all ethnic groups have partaken in

enormous atrocities. Youve obviously chosen your path so this isnt so much directed at you as it is

towards others.

Abagond, glad you liked it.

Kabedi Mwanasali

Most Europeans and white Americans are racist because they do not like themselves. They

look down on nonwhites because thats a way to make themselves feel better (sort of) about

their insecurities.

Whites are also the biggest hypocrites.

Theyll tan their skin and inject collagen into their lips but call a black person ugly and ignorant.

abagond

I never thought of it that way. Thanks.

Khalfani Dieudonne

Well this is a nice subject but, what everybody is forgets is how thisnationwas founded,.You

see if you were raised up by hustlers, killers, and thieves 9 times out of 10 youll become just

that. So americasdownfall began when it lied to the indians and killed off the so-called


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on Wed 18 Jun 2008 at 06:18:1

native american they came over and TOOK a country that wasnt theres and enslaved the

blackman and dehumanized him,.We were actuality bought and sold on the front steps of the whit

house and the building is still theredoing unlawful thing to this day so if your around a system thats

wicked.if you dont watch out you will become like it.SEE YOUTUBE BANNED

Zeitgeist.

abagond

Well said. Thanks for the YouTube recommendation.

Leann

While I read the article and the posts, I became very saddened. I have been taught in my life

that people are people. I judge, or do not judge them based on their actions, not the color of

their skin.

I liked the comment about whites who tan and inject collagen into their lips then call African

Americans ugly and ignorant. I have often wondered why people do that myself.

The bottom line is, people are people. We all have feelings, likes, dislikes, wants, needs and so on. you look under our skin, we all look the same.

Why cant we start to look within and change ourselves rather than look at people who we may or

may not consider beneith us. God is love and we are to love our neighbor as ourselves.. The Bible

doesnt say love thy neighbor as thyself but ONLY if they are the same race as you are.

I believe we are all created equal and should stand together in untiy instead of tearing each other

down. We should look to each other with love, compassion, and understanding.

Why do we get so boggled down on a persons so called class and not look at the person

themselves. It truely angers and hurts me that racism is still alive and well..

In closing, I want to say please try, try try to look at eachother as we are equals. Show love,

compassion, and understanding. Even help someone who is not as well of as you or that simply

needs your help and support. Change starts with one person, let that person be you..

gene

i love it when empty bottles are still yaking nothing to each other.hot coffee,must muddy the

waters so no one can see beneath the surface.

indigoblu

Gene..funny you should mention that.

Abagon: check out this siteits insightful, Id say.

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/

. not at all what youd expect.

abagond


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on Wed 18 Jun 2008 at 13:34:0

on Sun 20 Jul 2008 at 19:54:4

on Sun 20 Jul 2008 at 20:01:2

on Mon 6 Apr 2009 at 03:53:1

on Sat 2 May 2009 at 01:59:3

on Sat 2 May 2009 at 07:29:0

on Sun 24 May 2009 at 04:40:2

on Sun 24 May 2009 at 04:49:3

Thanks. Good pick: it was already in my blogroll!!

There is also stuff white people do (as opposed to like) which talks about racism instead of

the tongue-in-cheek Starbucks sort of whiteness that the other site talks about:

http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/

indigobluThanks abagond. I will defaintly check it out.

Andy

Ive read a few posts on this site and the attitude of the writer and posters makes me very

sad. Im a white English guy and my girlfriends family is from Somalia in east Africa. Weve

talked about visiting America a few times but are wary of the racist attitudes there mean that

there may be some places one or the other of us can go. There seems to be so much ignorance and

fear on both sides of the argument here. Shame.

abagond

Some people will stare, but most will be polite in word and action. You should both be able to

go anywhere together it is not the 1950s any more. Since the 1970s white American racism

has become far more subtle than that. Most of the heat that mixed couples get comes from

their families, not from strangers.

AW

Lincoln was a racist too wanted to deport us to Haiti or Africa. Only a few white people

truly cared Charles Sumner, Wendell Phillips, Thaddeus Stevens, etc. Otherwise, goodpoint.

sk

Just remember once apon a time slaves were everywhere(including in african tribes were

they had other countrymen as slaves.) It took white European settlers to outlaw it making the

United States the least racist country in the history of the world. We have the most diversity.

We are the most accepting. And people still cry.

abagondAfricans did not make you a slave because of your race, so right there they were less racist.

killthenigs

Abagond, you are very correct! Black Africans from Africa sold non law abiding blacks of a

culture who could not conform to the rules of their society and were sold to white Europeans.

No wonder why America is in such disarray.

killthenigs


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on Sun 24 May 2009 at 04:58:3

on Sun 24 May 2009 at 06:38:1

on Sun 31 May 2009 at 02:14:0

on Sun 31 May 2009 at 02:15:1

on Sun 31 May 2009 at 02:21:4

Most people dislike Blacks because they can not conform to the rules of society. Now as far

as white people hating themselves, sounds like a nigger made that comment. People like to

tan because they feel it makes their appearance more attractive, they do not wish to be black.

No self respecting person wishes to be a monkey. As far as collagen injections and butt implants, yo

are referring to whores. If America would wake up and stop letting the blacks breed like wild animals

and then support them with welfare we would be a far greater nation

killthenigsI live in Florida and the percentage of whites ia about 76% while the african american

percentage is about 15, but the funny thing is there are more blacks in the penal system than

whites- Statistical Fact. No wonder why people hate blacks. Every day you turn on the news,

you always hear about blacks on the news committing crimes.

abagond

In Florida:

1. For the year starting on July 1st 2007, more whites were put in prison than blacks.

2. Of those who have been executed, who are presumably the worst and most dangerous criminals

61% were white.

Source: http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/statsbrief/statsbrief.pdf

Also please keep in mind that the police are racist, whether you like it or not, and blacks in general

are less able to afford a good lawyer to keep themselves out of prison.

oleu

Are all white people racist? i dont think so , many White Americans are racist of course , but

not all white Europeans , two different cultures.My African friend in Europe married a white

European men and most of his family accepted her , she was welcome into his family , most

of them went to the wedding.I noticed in America the family will washed their hands on their children

if they marry a black person , crazy ,the reason why is because of slavery , blacks are not equal.You

have to understand one thing in Europe slavery didnt really exist.It is ashame in the year 2009

people specially in America still talk about race , color of skin , things didnt changed much.

oleu

Dont forget blacks can be racist too.

oleu

By the way , many white Americans are in denial they believe they are pure race , some have

African ancestry , it is self hatred.They also believe every one in Europe is pure white too ,

people are mixed every where in the world.I am sick of racist people , but white racist

Americans are so verbal about it specially on the internet because they dont have the guts to say it

in front of the black person he or she refers to as a N***er , they are cowards .At least you will know

if a black person is racist because they have nothing to hide.They say blacks are on welfare , but th


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majority of whites are the one in welfare they do nothing wrong in their eyes , white and black

supremacy sucks , hate is hate , two wrongs dont make it right.

oleu

Killthenings, we people from Europe knows most of you so called white people are not even

pure white , you people have such a self hatred , please take a DNA and prove me wrong.I

am sick of people like you who are in denial about people specially in America being mixed ,

you see it this way , white is white ,black is black and there is no part of anything or not even half anhalf , you live in a fantasy world that doesnt exist. I heard the ones who hate the most are the ones

who are of mixed ancestry because they have self hatred.I had met Aryan looking people in Europe

who are less hateful then a dark hair , brown eyes so called white person in America , even in the

countries who are not consider Aryans have an inferior complex.In Russia most are of mixed race

they are mixed with Mongolian, Chinese , Arab , Jewish , Gypsy , European , and even Ethiopian ,

but they are the most racist people in these world, non ARYANS .Hitler hated white Americans

because he thought whites were mixed with black , asian and latino , he also hated the Slavic race ,

(Slavic means slaves) because they are desame race as Russians , all mixed , hitler was part jew ,

you see what i mean about self haters.

deepblues28

I do not agree with the fact so many people feel racism is only whites hating blacks. I am a 26

year old white woman an the only white people I know who make comments about blacks are

those who are over 65. That is because they were raised in a time where segregation was

still around. Believe it or not I have experienced racism against my race. I grew up in an area where

most of the kids in my school were black. In my gym class there were only three white kids. I was

picked on daily for being white. Final when I was 14 years old we moved because I could not take it.

even got jumped in school for being white. Even with all this I do not hold anything against black

people as a whole. I believe those who picked and beat on my were raised to believe that whites

were bad people. Therefor, I do not hold it against the whole race. I believe there are good and bad

black people just like there are good and bad white people. We are all one, just our skin is different.

To be honest some of the best people I have meet in my life are black. Please understand that not a

white people are racist, most are not. The ones that are, are missing out on knowing some wonderfu

people. I wish we could all move past this and learn from each other.


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on Sun 16 Aug 2009 at 20:04:1

deepblues28

I cannot believe the words and statements made in this following post that is attached to this

one. This person is why we have so many blacks thinking all whites are racist. I apologize to

anyone this offended, even though I did not write it. I am white and it offended me! This post

obviously comes from an uneducated, unexsperenced, and ignorant person:

Most people dislike Blacks because they can not conform to the rules of society. Now as fara

white people hating themselves, sounds like a nigger made that comment. People like to tan

because they feel it makes their appearance more attractive, they do not wish to be black. Noself respecting person wishes to be a monkey. As far as collagen injections and butt implant

you are referring to whores. If America would wake up and stop letting the blacks breed like

wild animals and then support them with welfare we would be a far greater nation.

[Abagond: she is quoting comment #26]

RasismSuks

Americans are the only country who have dropped an atomic bomb and killed thousands of

innocent civilians in Japan.In short they are murderers. They donot respect human life and

the world knows it.

Racism is just a part of their life. They cant survive without it.

Wayne

RasismSuks

Dont you relise how many American and Japanese lives those 2 bombs saved. The Japs

would never have surrended until the whole of Japan was destroyed and millions more killed. You

should rather look at the bigger picture.

Japanese people are understanably bitter but their record for war crimes and mass murder during th

first half of the 20 century ranks right up there with the best of them.

I always find it amusing how people condemm other races, religions etc for wrongs done but justify

their own with a warped sense of logic.

TaffyApple

Maybe alot of it has to do with JEALOUSY and a whole lot of FEAR.

abagond

Wayne said:

I always find it amusing how people condemm other races, religions etc for wrongs

done but justify their own with a warped sense of logic.

So true. An example of this came just the paragraph before:

Japanese people are understanably bitter but their record for war crimes and mass murder

during the first half of the 20 century ranks right up there with the best of them.


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on Mon 28 Sep 2009 at 19:55:5

on Tue 6 Oct 2009 at 15:29:4

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on Mon 15 Feb 2010 at 07:30:2

on Fri 2 Apr 2010 at 18:06:5

So dropping an atom bomb on Hiroshima is all right because of the Rape of Nanking?

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Just like the Arab slave trade does not make the white slave trade all right because slave trading is

wrong, period. So is killing thousands of innocent men, women and children. If 9/11 was wrong then

so was Hiroshima. You cannot have it both ways.

There was also a racist element to it: on top of the racism whites already had against East Asiansthere were years of dehumanizing the Japanese in America during the war. So much so that

Japanese Americans were stripped of their property and put in prison camps. So much so that 16

years after the war you could still see the dehumanized view Americans had of the Japanese in

Hollywood films like Breakfast at Tiffanys.

Vindicator

In my opinion white latinos are much more racist then white americans.

Jay MacWow. I just dont understand why people cannot get along wether they are white or black. Why

are we even talking about this here man. We should be trying to make the world a better

place for us and our children to live in not fighting with eachother over past grudges. Let it go

both of you please! Just let it go man holy shit.

Jay Mac

Oh Yeah Obama is a good man and trying his best to help the entire world hes not there just

for the rich. hes there to help feed the rest of the starving world i wish you people would let

him. By the way Im white.

Jeff

Ya Racism is still alive in America but if you want to kill the snake you have to cut off its head.

The truth is that you have to look up to find the sorce of the racism, youve all heard the term

shit runs down hill.. well its no diffrent for racism, If you want to blame whitey its the powerful

corupt Judges who have financial intrests with companies that use the prison slave system to run

their corperations those that hand out life sentences to people for minore crimes and first time

offences. Itll be the powerful corprate owners and the Royalty who still harboure and use their powe

and influence to perpetuate the Racism not only to keep down black people but all people. Whats

that old saying Divide and Conquer well as long as people are buisy fighting each other and addinfuel to the Racism debate no one will pay attention to the man behind the curtain, Like a smoke

screen while they come in for the Kill

Peace out

The white Canadian

Tense

Thats a good rendition of white hate, though a little simplified. God will deal with our sins. Evil peop


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dont get away with it, even if they appear to prosper. Therefore, those who have been

aflicted by hate, should not let that hate consume them and turn their hearts as ugly as those

of their oppressor or abusers. White people hate because its human nature to hate others

unlike yourself. Deep in their psyche, adult whites are afraid or retributiontherefore, even though

there is a minority of good white people, the majority will hold onto what makes them feel secure.

Even now the heath care debate is about white fear of Blacks having access to health care, of Black

being elevated through more proper care. The idea of a Black advantage strike as fear in white

peoples heart. Its complicated, but as evil as their actions are, its not unique to their race. Anythingcommon to man, can be done by all men. They had the momentum and the advantage, the abuse it

and in order to feel safe and secure, they must lie to themself and continue the tradition of their less

than honourable foreparents.

idecchi

Hi, could anybody stop American or Canadian ppl from posting Ching chong ugly ppl on

Japanese youtube vids?

I wonder what kind of race are posting those.

I kinda regret to have learnt some English to understand how ugly things they are doing on Japanesyoutube vids as if they are doing some kind of harassing Asians.

Some ppl are saying They are not Chinese , they are Japanese you fool!. But every time I read

those comments I myself also feel sick of it because in some extent Japanese look down on Chinese

or Korean.

Ive studied English to know the big world but I didnt sign up for this!

gene willis

ever noticed when people make comments on blog sites they all most end evry statement

withoh,by the way,I AM WHITE.self hateing whites are still here.race should not be afactor when blogging a response.people are not interested in your coular,only in a

conventional conversation on the facts.leave evrything about your race out,and leave your

responses in.

h244234234234

its not just white americans, its most white people. look at europe. you got these cheeky guys

there drawing mohamed cartoons just to pis off the muslims. you have france that paid

immigrants to go home. you got spain that throws peanuts at african footballers. you got italy

that finger prints gypsys. the list goes on. if you look at europes immigration laws 20yrs agocompared to today, you see they are drastically different because people are extremely tolerant of

racism. i dont have any concrete examples of what goes on in canada, but im sure its the same. in

fact, the united nations even called canada racist because it calls its non white minorities visible

minorities. australians hate asians and lebanese. thats why they had riots in cronula. aborgines are

constantly being abused.

gene willis

mr.long numbers,is it white americans that are only racist or just white people living in this

country?you stomp around a lot of mud puddles trying to get your points across.could you break thi


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on Sun 5 Sep 2010 at 01:35:3

on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 03:03:2

on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 04:31:4

on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 12:29:2

down in order of racist groups so people will understand less.

gene willis

dear mr. indigoblu,at the risk of sounding to white,are you from this country or the alternat

one?it seems to me you have white hate or white fasination to the world cup.which is it?a lot

of countries participate in the world cup.and as to anyone white person remembering the next

day,well,thats there problem.and as for talking to whites as you refer us to,racial conversation is a

tabo for whites as you keep saying.hot coffee,we are not all cut from the same cloth,and that includea lot of euros.or as you simply put it.the white man.

Cody

I think history has shown that White European peoples and there were a lot of different

kinds were smarter than Black African peoples. Blacks were freed but they never excelled.

Similarly, White Europeans persecuted the Asians and the Jews. And look what happened:

White (non-Jewish) Europeans are scarcely 20% of elite university populations, and Asians and Jew

combined make up about 60% of these student populations. Blacks, even though everything from

their grades to their test scores are very much lower than everyone elses, with the exeption of a

group of invading peoples who hardly speak the language, are still equally represented. In fact, it is

the multifarious White European races that are so largely underrepresented.

In essence, White Americans are really the somewhat blended remenants of several ancient

European tribes. The prot-Germanic barbarians make up most of these, and their descendendents,

including the Angels, the Saxons, the Franks, and the Gauls. White people, really, have never bee

a united race (even though they should have been.) And we all get tossed around, mostly by racist

Jews who still hate us , even those of us who had nothing to do with it, for the Halocaust.

abagond

It sounds like you are saying whites are more racist against blacks because they have not

excelled like Jews and Asians. Yet for that to be a proper comparison, you have to assume

that blacks, Jews and Asians have experienced equal levels of racism which contradicts

what you are trying to prove.

abagond


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on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 15:24:0

on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 16:15:3

on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 19:32:0

Mira

Interesting. I could tell without looking this was written a while ago. I dont think youd write

the same article today, Abagond.

(I mean, it would be different).

leigh204Wow, abagond. That toon says it all.

Lookingforanswers

If racism is defined simply as feeling that one race is superior to another then most people

are racist on some level with the understanding that the average person confuses race with

culture and simply prefer how things are done in their own culture.

I do not think most Whites are racist in the sense of harboring animosity toward Blacks. Prejudices,

of course (as most people are) but this can usually be overcome on an individual level with a little

exposure. Here are the four biggest problems I see with White culture in this country, which probablyfalls into the category of institutional racism:

1. The typical white person does not like to step outside of his or her comfort zone. This is a problem

because this causes them not to want to live with, employ or have any dealings with people unlike

themselves unless its absolutely necessary. They just dont want to deal with having to be consciou

or sensitive to the differences in others. This is one of those white privileges that they have and

dont realize because as Blacks we dont have this option. If we want to be successful materially or

financially, we have to learn how to deal with and be sensitive to White culture and norms. They hav

no such obligation. Anyways, they dont want to risk saying something that might get them accused


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on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 20:16:1

on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 20:31:5

of being racist. They would rather just not deal with all that so they always gravitate towards each

other particularly when it comes to employment and hiring practices.

2. The typical White person chooses to tolerate intolerance instead of upsetting the peace. They

dont like to upset the apple cart. They would rather just look the other way, pretend it didnt

happened or conclude that what happened had nothing to do with race or culture. Plus, at the end of

the day, they feel that its not their fight and just go with the flow. What they dont realize is that to

blacks, this is simply co-signing because they ultimately benefit from the outcome of locking out a

whole population of people competing for the same jobs.

3. They love to maintain the status-quo if it is to their benefit, even if it contains and perpetuates

univeral injustices to others. Supporting dictators of other countries that help us is a perfect example

of this on a macro-level but there are examples of this throughout their culture on all levels. This

makes it extemely hard to change anything.

4. In their world, opportunities are largely based on connections or who you know. They will readily

acknowledge this and yet they actively segregate themselves socially and in the suburbs virtually

guaranteeing that they only really get close to other Whites and hence only do favors or give

opportunities to each other.

None of these things include a conscious animosity toward Blacks but the end result is the same.

By the way institutional racism should be called institutional disenfranchisement toward

non-whites. Yes its more PC but once you put the word racism in anything, Whites tune out, get

defensive and cant reason on the issue. And frankly its really not racism when you think about it.

Yes, it is disenfranchisement along racial lines but not racism if racism is simply defined as believing

one race or culture is superior to another. We all think that on some level but we do not all actively

disenfranchise people by how we set up the rules of a game simply because we like to be around

people like ourselves and maximize our own personal comfort. This I believe are the real issues with

White culture in America today.

jas0nburns

If racism is defined simply as feeling that one race is superior to another

its not.

Lookingforanswers

@ jas0nburns

It is:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial difference

produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

I agree that most people think of the secondary definition:

racial prejudice or discrimination


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on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 21:01:1

on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 21:31:4

on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 22:18:4

But rarely (if ever) will you see that as a primary definition of racism.

nonserviam

Nice postcard.

nonserviam

The typical White person chooses to tolerate intolerance instead of upsetting the peace.They dont like to upset the apple cart.

True enough. That is why most whites continue to tolerate and even support racial discrimination

against themselves they view it as an acceptable price of social peace.

The reality, however, continues to reassert itself; and, much like Israelis, the more goodwill

concessions whites make, the less peace they get.

Lookingforanswers

@ nonserviam

This is because the concessions that are made dont ultimately affect the bottom line or get to

the root of the problem. It tends to just be window dressing. One thing I have to give to Whites is this

collectively they ultimately understand that this is indeed a dog-eat-dog, zero-sum world and that we

are all competing for finite resources. This is why no real concessions are willingly made and

institutional disenfranchisement will never be recognized. Many Whites really dont want a level

playing field if it potentially means others winning instead of them. They are in the lead and want to

stay in the lead. I can understand this as a human behavior. The thing that is infuriating though, is

that at the same time, they want the satisfaction of believing that everything theyve achieved is of

their own steam fair and square. This is the height of hubris.

This is also why I dont understand why Blacks look to Whites to solve Black problems. There is

really no incentive for Whites or anyone else to do so. The way how Whites solve their Black

problems is through White flight. Blacks need to solve problems internally like every other race has i

the past. Maybe they dont because Blacks feel that the ones responsible for creating the problem

should be the ones who fixes it but thats just not how Whites think. Thats by the way, why Whites

insure everything and Blacks dont. They understand the one who broke it need not be the one who

fixes it.


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on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 23:02:2

Aiyo

@Abagond

When people use that blacks did not excel like argument they really do not have a clue

what they are chatting about. Like you said Abagond Blacks, Asians and Jews have experienced

different racism.

One example that very few White people know about. Greenwood, Tulsa, Oklahoma. AKA The Blac

Wall Street http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood,_Tulsa,_Oklahoma#.22The_Black_Wall_Street.2

oh and that cartoon, love it.

nonserviam

The institutional disenfranchisement will never be recognized, because it doesnt exist. Its

just another fatuous excuse for persistent underachievement of blacks despite the playing

filed being heavily tilted in their favor.

Even though race industry also discriminates against high-IQ NE Asians, I dont think it was created

with that in mind. Most whites are still firmly in the grip of universalist delusion.

Schwartz

***For whites to feel good about keeping them as slaves they had to believe certain things

about black people.***

So what is the justification used by blacks who held slaves in Africa?

Schwartz

***australians hate asians and lebanese. thats why they had riots in cronula. ***

This was triggered by some middle eastern guys beating up some surf lifesavers. Also,

considerable tension was created by a over 70 gang rapes of european women by middle eastern

men in Australia over a two year period. That kind of thing tends to rile people up!

Lookingforanswers

@ nonserviam

Institutional disenfranchisement doesnt exist? Jim Crow was a perfect example of

institutional disenfranchisement was it not? And even though many Whites alive today lived during

Jim Crow, you think that type of thinking just disappeared and doesnt exist in any form today?

Man, it just goes to show how delusional or disingenuous some Whites really are (neither of which

reflect well on their culture).


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on Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 23:58:4

nonserviam

Whatever thoughtcrimes whites may continue to secretly entertain, institutional

disenfranchisement does not exist today.

Lookingforanswers

Yes, only in thought. Never in hiring practices, promotions, police stops, judicial system,

renting apartments, buying homes, interest rates, loans, etc..

All opportunities that Whites have, Blacks have to.

As I said delusional or disingenuous.

Schwartz

***All opportunities that Whites have, Blacks have to.***

Not really. Asians have more cause for complaint.

Translating the advantages into SAT scores, study author Thomas Espenshade, a Princetonsociologist, calculated that African-Americans who achieved 1150 scores on the two or iginal SAT

tests had the same chances of getting accepted to top private colleges in 1997 as whites who score

1460s and Asians who scored perfect 1600s.

Espenshade found that when comparing applicants with similar grades, scores, athletic

qualifications, and family history for seven elite private colleges and universities:

Whites were three times as likely to get fat envelopes as Asians. Hispanics were twice as likely to

win admission as whites. African-Americans were at least five times as likely to be accepted as

whites. (from US News October 7, 2009)

nonserviam

All opportunities that Whites have, Blacks have to.

No. They have more.

Its just that even the existing level of privilege is unable to bridge the achievement gap.

Lookingforanswers

@ nonserviam

We have more opportunities than Whites? Are you serious?

So how do you explain studies that expose:

- Higher interest rates for Blacks with the same credit score as Whites?

- Lower rate of call back for exact same resumes with a black sounding name vs one with a white

sounding name?

- Disproportionate rate of police stops for Blacks vs White?

-Realtors not showing homes for sale or rent to Blacks in certain White neighborhood?


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on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 00:22:4

on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 00:30:1

All made up, all fictitious right?

Im now just leaning toward disingenuous with you.

Lookingforanswers

@ Schwartz

I do want to address the school thing because this is where Whites tend to feel the mostindignant.

The first reason this tends to happen is that many elite schools of higher learning actually value

diversity as they believe it contributes to the overall educational experience of all in the school. As

many Whites do not see value in this, any rationale that incorporates it as a factor is scorned in the

White community.

The second reason is that some schools understand and expect those that come from underserved

communities to underperform on a standardize test like the SAT which has built in biases of its own.

Whites want everything to be fair from SAT on, totally dismissing the 17 years of advantages their

kids had up to that point. How dare Johnny not be accepted while he got a higher SAT score thanMalik who did get accepted! totally ignoring that everything Johnny had up until that point was bette

than Malik, but now Malik should suffer. Trust me, Johnny will be alright. Malik will likely have more

hurdles to cross in the future than Johnny (see comment about black names on resumes).

jas0nburns

@Lookingforanswers.

Oh my bad, I didnt know you had all the answers already.

posting the websters definition of racism on an anti-racism blog is a surefire way to make surenobody takes you seriously.

http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/08/wonder-where-to-start-when-they-join.html

excerpt

A. Anyone can hold racial prejudice that is, they can carry positive or negative stereotypes of

others based on racial characteristics. For example, a white person thinking all Asians are smart, or

all black people are criminals; or a Chinese person thinking Japanese people are untrustworthy; or

what-have-you. ANYONE, of any race, can have racial prejudices.

B. People of any race can commit acts of violence, mistreatment, ostracizing, etc., based on their

racial prejudices. A black kid can beat up a white kid because he doesnt like white kids. An Indian

person can refuse to associate with Asians. Whatever, you get the idea.

C. However, to be racist (rather than simply prejudiced) requires having institutional power. In North

America, white people have the institutional power. In large part we head the corporations; we make

up the largest proportion of lawmakers and judges; we have the money; we make the decisions. In

short, we control the systems that matter. White is presented as normal, the default. Because we

have institutional power, when we think differently about people based on their race or act on our


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racial prejudices, we are being racist. Only white people can be racist, because only white people

have institutional power.

D. People of color can be prejudiced, but they cannot be racist, because they dont have the

institutional power. (However, some people refer to intra-PoC prejudice as lateral racism. You may

also hear the term colorism, which refers to lighter-skinned PoC being prejudiced toward darker-

skinned PoC.) However, that situation can be different in other countries; for example, a Japanese

person in Japan can be racist against others, because the Japanese have the institutional power

there. But in North America, Japanese people cant be racist because they dont hold the institutionapower.

E. If youre in an area of your city/state/province that is predominantly populated by PoC and, as a

white person, you get harassed because of your skin color, its still not racism, even though youre in

a PoC-dominated area. The fact is, even though theyre the majority population in that area, they stil

lack the institutional power. They dont have their own special PoC-dominated police force for that

area. They dont have their own special PoC-dominated courts in that area. The state/province and

national media are still not dominated by PoC. Even though they have a large population in that

particular area, they still lack the institutional power overall.

F. So thats the definition of racism that youre likely to encounter. If you start talking about reverse

racism youre going to either get insulted or laughed at, because it isnt possible under that

definition; PoC dont have the power in North America, so by definition, they cant be racist. Crying

reverse racism! is like waving a Clueless White Person Badge around.

G. If you go into an anti-racist discussion and start trying to claim the colloquial definition that racism

is simply viewing or treating others differently based on race, youre going to get a negative reactio

Stick to racism = prejudice + power. Anti-racists arent going to take it well if you wander in halfway

through the debate and start trying to make them abide by your definition rather than the commonly

accepted prejudice + power. Imagine if everyone in a classroom was chatting about a particular

subject and then someone walked in and said, No! Youre all doing it wrong! The REAL definition isABC and I dont care that all the rest of you think its XYZ! do you think that would go over well?

Of course it wouldnt; the newcomer would be considered rude. (Also, making an appeal to

Dictionary.com is not going to work. Pointing out that the colloquial definition is how Websters

Dictionary defines racism is not going to make anti-racists suddenly say, Wow, you know what?

Youre right! I never realized it, but now that Websters has backed you up, I see that youre totally

right and racism really is just judging people based on their skin color! Actually, they may say that,

but theyd be saying it sarcastically.)

H. Im under the impression there are a number of different reasons why anti-racists use the

sociological definition as versus the colloquial one, but the major reason Im aware of is thatanti-racists arent just focusing on individual acts of racism; theyre looking at racism as an

entrenched system that pervades every layer of our society. The colloquial definition reduces racism

to an individual level; the sociological definition focuses on the systemic level. The systemic level is

actually more important, because even as individual/obvious acts of racism become less socially

acceptable, the systemic effects of institutionalized racism continue to work quietly, efficiently, and

powerfully. Think of it like a body; its easy to find a cancerous lesion on the skin and remove it, and

then youd look like you were cancer-free. But even as you looked fine on the surface, the real

cancer would be inside your body, spreading from lymph node to lymph node, and invading your

bones and organs. Individual and overt acts of racism are the lesions on the surface; the invisible

cancer is the systemic racism. Unless youre addressing the underlying disease, eradicating surface


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on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 00:43:5

on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 00:44:4

on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 00:51:5

on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 00:57:4

on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 01:14:3

on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 02:22:0

symptoms isnt going to accomplish much. But thats enough about the definition of racism for now;

lets continue.

Lookingforanswers

@ jas0nburns

Ofcourse, http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/08/wonder-where-to-start-when-they-

join.html is a far better reference for defining racism than a dictionary. What was I thinking (not)?

The truth is I only knew that was the actual definition of racism after Abagond pointed me to a

previous blog that defined it the same way. ever since then, I accepted it and moved on.

Despite whatever http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/08/wonder-where-to-start-when-they

join.html says, the definition is what it is and definitions matter.

Schwartz

***Whites want everything to be fair from SAT on, totally dismissing the 17 years of

advantages their kids had up to that point. ***

And the Asians are the most privileged of all, hence their higher handicap for entering colleges

Lookingforanswers

@Schwartz,

I dont get the Asian numbers. I think plain old discrimination may be in play there.

jas0nburnsis a far better reference for defining racism than a dictionary.

oh yes. its a far better reference. I know you were being sarcastic but im not.

So youre not white? Usually its whites who cling to the colloquial definition of racism because it

doesnt challenge them or single them out.

Lookingforanswers

@ jas0nburns

No, Im not White. Im all Black. Black spouse, Black Kids. The whole nine.I see no problem with the standard definition for Racism. It doesnt change anything that has

been inflicted upon us over the years. Whites can be challenged on a mountain of facts and studies.

No need for alternate definitions and such.

jas0nburns

Its not an alternate definition really, it just includes something that the websters version

doesnt. Power. Im wondering why you dont seem to think the power component is

significant. You stated that


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on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 03:12:5

on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 03:25:0

on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 03:42:4

on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 12:40:5

It doesnt change anything that has been inflicted upon us over the years.

Yet the very fact that anything could be inflicted at all clearly illustrates that power is an essential

component of racism or at least, its what makes racism significant. Without power, who cares? I

mean, if you hated someone it wouldnt matter unless you had the power to affect them. (Ive second

guessed this definition myself because there are circumstances where blacks have more power tha

whites. But not many.)

Racism is set up to benefit whites at the expense of POC so dont you think the definition shouldreflect that? Makes sense to me.

Lookingforanswers

I personally think that definition is flawed. Its not good for Blacks to think they cant be racist

because they dont feel they have power. How would you then classify hate speech by a

Black person?

jas0nburns

I would classify it as Racial prejudice or just Hate speech? Obviously anyone can beprejudiced and hateful but racism is about historic institutional oppression and abuse based

on race. Blacks have only been victims of that never perpetrators. Except upon themselves of

course.

As far as I know.

Lookingforanswers

I think anyone that practices racial hate speech is a racist. They dont get a pass because

they happen to think they are powerless, sorry.

You know, its hard to respond to you because I agree in general with your understanding of our

plight. I just disagree with redefining (or embellishing) the word racist to simplify describing our pligh

Maybe Im just an old fashion wordsmith.

Also, it makes it hard to communicate with others outside of our community because they dont

connect with our custom definitions so it can make us seem paranoid and come across like we see

racism as the cause of everything.

jas0nburnsWell, it just seems like we have a different view on how much power blacks actually have.

And I would grant that certainly blacks have much more power than they used to, but you can

still see lots of examples where they dont, like the relationship with law enforcement and the

judicial system.

Also, it makes it hard to communicate with others outside of our community

I dont quite understand what you mean. Could you elaborate on that?


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on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 12:52:2

on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 21:22:0

on Mon 28 Feb 2011 at 23:51:4

jas0nburns

I just disagree with redefining (or embellishing) the word racist to simplify describing our

plight.

I dont think its just descriptive of blacks and whites. The internment of Japanese Americans during

WW2 was very racist IMO. And racism occurs all over the world even when no whites are present.

Lookingforanswers@ jas0nburns

I dont think we disagree on how much power Blacks really have but do I think we disagree on

the amount of influence Blacks have. I think we as Blacks have much more influence over our own

lives and communities than we think. We just dont take advantage of it in my opinion.

This is something Whites happen to understand extremely well in ways we dont even think about.

For example, my friend was standing in a Post Office in an area that had been Black for years but as

of late started to see many Whites move in. The postal workers were dragging their feet as usual. Al

the Blacks were complaining to each other about the bad service but did nothing. The one White lad

on the line took out her phone, called the post master (already had the number in her phone by theway) and then gave it to everyone on the line telling them to call all at once. Everyone blew up the

post masters phone about the slow service right on the spot (on a Saturday at that). All of a sudden

the phone rang in the back and you would think everyone got a double dose of red bull, lines started

moving so fast!!! See, not power, but the ability to influence those with power. If Blacks would just

understand when and how to exert a little influence, things would change faster than you think.

But if we just think the success Whites have achieved is solely based on racism defined the way we

choose to define it, we will never look to learn from the things they actually do well. In this case

above, that white lady showed everyone that day how to make service better in that post office, and

did not involve using racism (as you define it). I wonder how many there that day took that lesson toheart?

By the way, you asked what I meant by Also, it makes it hard to communicate with others outside o

our community. Another thing Whites understand well is how to build coalitions to increase influenc

and/or power to accomplish a common goal. This is very difficult to do if the issues are not viewed

and defined in a similar way across factions or a federation. What is my point? If we continue to

define racism in our own little way because we believe it to be more accurate but it does not resona

with others, it will be impossible to build a coalition to address problems many disenfranchised

communities face in common. And trust me when I say that claiming all Whites are racist while its

impossible for Blacks to be racist will not resonate with others.

jas0nburns

good points.

Definitely a different perspective than what Ive heard in the past and I want to be open to

that.

Ive never actually bought into the idea that ALL the success whites have achieved is based on

racism. I think Europeans had quite a bit going for them before the colonial era. And being white


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on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 00:07:0

on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 01:46:4

on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 02:10:2

myself I know that there is a lot more to whites than just racism.

Still, I think the fact is that racism is something that whites invented to keep ourselves at the top. We

still use it that way and thats the form in which racism is most damaging even by your definition. I

dont think that recognizing that fact is any kind of excuse for POC to not work to better their position

in society its just a recognition of the way things are.

Also, in regard to learning from whites:

Whatever qualities you attribute to whites and not to blacks, dont you have to ask yourself why thesbehaviors are not typical within the black community as you see it? The story about the post office

really just illustrates a sense of entitlement that whites posses that perhaps blacks dont generally

speaking. I think theres probably a good reason for that dont you?

nonserviam


- Lower rate of call back for exact same resumes with a black sounding name vs one with

a white sounding name?

- Disproportionate rate of police stops for Blacks vs White?


-For any black vs. any white? Or just for a higher percentage of former? Its no revelation that bigger

share of blacks and Hispanics are risky borrowers, as opposed to whites. The governments attemp

to remedy the situation blew up in our faces in the form of current recession.

-A suspicion, not entirely unreasonable, that theres less to black credentials than meets the eye

because of the affirmative action, grade inflation etc. Also, wariness, not entirely unreasonable, of

lawsuits, once a black employee doesnt get his way with something or other.

-Blacks and Hispanics are overrepresented in certain types of crime (also hardly a revelation). Inaddition, most criminal syndicates are organized along racial and ethnic lines. Therefore, racial

profiling is a valuable tool of police work. Like any other tool, it can be abused and misused, but that

doesnt invalidate its essential soundness.

-In a free society, people tend to self-segregate. We prefer the company of our peers. Whites, more

than others, have tried to redefine peers in non-racial terms (which is how even I would prefer it),

but race is a powerful reality that tends to re-assert itself. Also, theres an impression, not entirely

unreasonable, that blacks tendency towards anti-social behavior is higher than that of whites.

Lookingforanswers@ nonserviam

I do not believe your rationale is worthy of a fact-based thoughtful response on my part so all

I will say is that your comments prove the existance of the very thing you are trying to deny exists.

Lookingforanswers

@ jas0nburns

I actually think a sense of entitlement about the right things such as standards in service and


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on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 04:25:1

on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 04:33:5

treatment is a good thing. One could argue that the whole civil rights movement was an exercise in a

sense of entitlement, building coalitions and influencing power. I think the lessons of why that was s

successful have been lost on many in our community today.

jas0nburns

I actually think a sense of entitlement about the right things such as standards in service and

treatment is a good thing.

Agreed, otherwise people will walk all over you while they take your hard earned money. And I think

a healthy sense of entitlement would naturally develop in anyone unless.you are part of a group

that is consistently and routinely denied those things that you are entitled to. See my point?

I think the lessons of why that was so successful have been lost on many in our community today.

Yeah, I think a lot of people wonder what happened to that spirit. I think about how things kind of

became more militant in the 70s and maybe mutated into a different type of power. More of a dont

f*uck with me, Im not taking any sh*t type of power. Which works but only to a degree. Maybe it

might be time to put that on the shelf and try some other stuff as you suggest.

Thats just a hypothesis though. I really couldnt say.

nonserviam

If you continue to insist that institutional racism i.e. whites as a group being, today, the

main (or indeed, the only) cause of blacks problems, then theres nothing to be done, short of

us collectively slitting our own throats. While I realize that this may be the fervent wish of

many or most in the black community, I think youll understand our unwillingness to indulge.

Uncle Milton

To Lookingforanswers:

So how do you explain studies that expose:



Have you ever shopped for a house or a mortgage in the past decade? I live in an area (near San

Francisco..) that has a relatively low Black population but one of my former Realtors and one of my

mortgage brokers were Black. You can pick and choose who you represents you in real estate andalso were to get your mortgage. Except for very first mortgage all of my applications were done

online. All numbers no nuance. So I wonder about these studies (although I can believe in the 70s

and into the 80s this was an issue..) Tons of information on the internet if you think you are being

jacked around.

All made up, all fictitious right?

Have you actually looked at the names study? 1) A few things the numbers were rather low.. 2) It

just compares Blacks and Whites.. Why..? There are now more Latinos than Blacks and in some

states such as California more Asians than Whites. I would be rather interested to see how people


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would respond to positions such as landscaping or construction to names like Jose or Juan and for

jobs with names like Cho, Wong, Raj, or Kumar. Heres a link to the actual numbers:

http://www.arthurhu.com/INDEX/discrim.htm

Mean Call-Back Rates By First Name

White Female

Emily 8.3% 19/228

Anne 9.0

Jill 9.3

Allison 9.4

Sarah 9.8

Meredith 10.6

Laurie 10.8

Carrie 13.1

Kristen 13.6 29/214

Black Female

Aisha 2.2% 4/180

Keisha 3.8

Tamika 5.4

Lakisha 5.5

Tanisha 6.3

Latoya 8.8

Kenya 9.1

Latonya 9.1

Ebony 10.5 22/209

White Male

-

Neil 6.6% 5/76

Geoffrey 6.8

Brett 6.8

Brendan 7.7

Greg 7.8

Todd 8.7

Matthew 9.0Jay 13.2

Brad 15.9 10/63

Black Male

-

Rasheed 3.0% 2/67

Tremayne 4.3

Kareem 4.7

Darnell 4.8

Tyrone 5.3


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on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 04:40:1

on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 05:06:0

on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 05:28:2

Jamal 6.6

Hakim 7.3

Leroy 9.4

Jermaine 11.3 6/53

So Jermaine and Leroy are more likely to get a call back than Neil, Geoffry, Brett, Brendan, Greg,

Todd, and Matthew. And Ebony and Latoya are more likely to get call backs than 77% of the White

men than Jill, Anne, or Emily. What strikes me right off the bat is that there were more call backs for

women than men of any race race and the sample numbers are low. Does this mean I dont think isbias.. ? No but it does make think that the people who conducted the study have their heads in

1965 when the vast majority of employers were White and applicants were White or Black with only

handful or Asians or Latinos. Neither condition is currently accurate.

Uncle Milton

To Jas0nburns:

Its not an alternate definition really, it just includes something that the websters version

doesnt. Power. Im wondering why you dont seem to think the power component is significant.

Perhaps another word is needed since some people feel that they racism is only prejudice plus

power. The problem with this is that it basically implies that White people can not be racist in places

like Haiti, Jamaica, Bolivia, Venezuela, sub-Saharan Africa (outside of SA..) etc.. which I think is a b

ridiculous.

I would submit that if someone of another race is holding a gun on your or is beating you to death (o

multiple people of another race are beating you to death..) that those people hold power over the

victim regardless of their respective races.

Lookingforanswers

@ jas0nburns

And I think a healthy sense of entitlement would naturally develop in anyone

Not really. Not if parents arent raising their children to have a healthy sense of self respect, self

worth and yes, a sense of entitlement about the right things. In my opinion this is the no. 1 problem i

the Black community today by far. I believe its worse than institutional disenfranchisement/racism.

It was not always this way. Remember, Blacks have been routinely denied good services and

entitlements since we arrived to this country. Thats nothing new. What has changed is that manyparents are not parenting in our communities anymore, not instilling a sense of value, self respect

and standards. Rappers, ball players and movies have been delegated this responsibility somehow

and it has been nothing short of a disaster. Slavery and Jim Crow laws (true institutional racism) use

to be the no. 1 problem facing Blacks but now I believe its this.

I dont see how we can expect Whites or anyone else to take our complaints seriously when they se

how we run our own families or what we tolerate in our own neighborhoods.

Lookingforanswers


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on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 12:18:1

on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 13:40:5

on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 17:45:5

@ Uncle Milton

Despite the numbers for Leroy and Jermaine, the numbers clearly show that the black names

as a group consistently underperform white names as a group. You seem to recognize this with

women over everyone else but not with white Males over black males. Why I wonder?

This type of thinking is typical I find for some whites. If one or two black situations beat out whites,

they seem to focus on that to show how there really is no problem or that somehow its whites that

are discriminated against when the numbers as a whole say something completely different.

jas0nburns

@ lookingforanswers.

many parents are not parenting in our communities anymore

Ive noticed, and I think thats a big part of why the achievement gap is still so wide. But how did that

happen? What role does racism play in that do you think?

jas0nburns

I suppose that whenever I see any difference in the way blacks do things from the way whites

do things, I assume that racism is a factor in that difference. Because otherwise there would

be no difference to observe in the first place. Does that make sense?

So when somebody says something like its not racism, blacks just need to do X I cant totally

agree. Blacks may very well need to do X but that doesnt mean racism isnt a factor.

Lookingforanswers

@ jas0nburns

I think a lot of factors contribute to the lack of parenting, the achievement gap and a general

decline of Black communities.

The decline of the role of churches and religion as institutions in the Black community plays a big pa

in why parents arent parenting properly anymore. Because of churches/religion, people in the Black

community generally felt the need to (or at least give the appearance of) adhering to a basic moral

code and raising their children to follow it also. From what I have observed, the White culture in this

country generally does not utilize religion this way. Their culture already tends to be based on

keeping your true feelings close to the vest, not tipping your hand and maintaining theappearance of peace or civility while exhibiting very passive aggressive behavior (probably adopted

from the British). This is what they teach their children from young through example and these are

the norms that develop in their community generally speaking.

Anyways, once the role of churches declined, this obligation of a moral code or standard in the Blac

community declined with it. As the expression goes people no longer have shame. Why? Because

people no longer have a moral sense of right and wrong to be shamed about because this sense of

right and wrong traditional came from Church/Religion in the Black community. To compound the

issue, the standards are now set by the media, rappers, ball players, etc and are usually not very

high. Why did Churches decline? I guess at some point people stopped making their children go with


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on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 18:12:5

them so when the children grew up, the habit was not there and they did not go at all. I cant say for

sure though.

Heres the part I think Institutional Racism (not institutional disenfranchisement) plays. School text

books have ignored almost every single contribution that Blacks have made to this country and to th

world in general. You would think only Whites have contributed to civilization. This fosters that feelin

of superiority that Whites have as well as the feeling of worthlessness that Blacks have. Just ask any

young black teenager who Ben Carson is and you will see what I mean. This is partly why I think

people are trying so hard to tear down Barack Obama and undo everything he does. I believe manysecretly would prefer he made no imprint on history at all so they could justify completely writing him

out from future textbooks (like most presidents are) to perpetuate the idea that only certain Whites

have contributed anything of lasting value.

I think criminalization of marijuana in this country is also a form of institutional racism because it

largely impacts minority communities more than White communities, encourages other criminal

activity, needlessly breakup families and expose simple substance abusers to hard core criminals in

jail. (By the way, I must say, Whites at least have the good sense to smoke weed inside the house

than out on the corner, park or the stoop where people always get busted). I dont smoke weed and

dont think other people should either but I can still see that criminalizing it does more harm thangood.

The part that institutional disenfranchisement plays in all this is in the lack of job opportunities for

Black men. Its difficult for any man (black or otherwise) to feel good about himself or be positive in

general if he cant support himself or his family. And as we all know, lack of employment has a

straight line to crime rates, domestic violence, etc.

Usagi

So Jermaine and Leroy are more likely to get a call back than Neil, Geoffry, Brett, Brendan,

Greg, Todd, and Matthew. And Ebony and Latoya are more likely to get call backs than 77%of the White men than Jill, Anne, or Emily. What strikes me right off the bat is that there were

more call backs for women than men of any race race and the sample numbers are low. Does this

mean I dont think is bias.. ? No but it does make think that the people who conducted the study

have their heads in 1965 when the vast majority of employers were White and applicants were White

or Black with only a handful or Asians or Latinos. Neither condition is currently accurate.

Ummmmm, no. I think youre over generalizing. Those names are not considered black, its ghetto

have family members with names like Annie, Norma, Nora, Chico, Juanita, Elaine, or Frances. My

mum would be very upset if I were to name my son Lashwan or something. Sora is okay, though. Iv

known a white girl named Kisha, Latoya and Latasha. Stereotypes are only true up until a certainpoint. It should never be use as an absolute rule for everybody. Ebonics isnt a black thing, its a

ghetto thing. Theres ghetto Spanish, Japanese and French. There are a lot of ghetto ass white

people and only want to point it out when blacks are doing it. I do feel that Blacks are racist, too. I

hated that they follow the one-drop rule. United all of us, my a**. It that was the case there would be

no colorism, classism, homophobia, or culturism in the black community

Usagi

Rasheed 3.0% 2/67

Tremayne 4.3


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on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 18:29:0

on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 19:17:2

on Tue 1 Mar 2011 at 21:57:1

Kareem 4.7

Darnell 4.8

Tyrone 5.3

Jamal 6.6

Hakim 7.3

Leroy 9.4

Jermaine 11.3 6/53

Those names sound really weird. i would never name a dog that let alone a human being. Does itmean anything ? Whats wrong with Amber or Sophie. Ophelia is beautiful, too.

Lookingforanswers

@ Usagi

What is the one-drop rule?

Usagi

if you look at all black African, even just one bit, then you are considered to be black inAmerican society. Because, you know, whites are pure,

It destroys the uniqueness and diversity of Black dystopia

Randy Garver

Jas0nburns said: I suppose that whenever I see any difference in the way blacks do things

from the way whites do things, I assume that racism is a factor in that difference. Because

otherwise there wou ld be no d i f ference to obs erve in the f i rst place.

Says who?

This is a classic example of whats often called guilty white liberalism, and while it might seem like

caring kind of statement, embedded within is paternalism and disrespect.

Its a kind of statement that putatively enlightened whites make when theyre down with the brothas

Another example is sams comment yesterday about being a lost white man in middle of blackest

Africa(his words) where the drunken noble savages surprisingly gave him succor. It read like a

passage straight out of 19th century Afsploitation lit.

Uncle Milton

To Usagi:

Ummmmm, no. I think youre over generalizing. Those names are not considered black, its

ghetto.

That was from a study that Lookingforanswers cited.. not my personal beliefs about whether those

are or are not Black names.


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Uncle Milton

To Lookingforanswers:

That study is often cited but when you look at the numbers and the methodology you realize

that it is really problematic. I can find a study that I think is a good quality study but the names stud

has issues in my opinion. As I said I am not discounting discrimination but I do wonder why other

ethnic groups were not included and why do they think that this is solely White prejudice..? Could no

the hiring managers be Latino, Asian, or heck.. Black. (Because there are Blacks who are prejudiceagainst other Blacks.. and as Usagi pointed out.. why are those Black names? He thought they

were Ghetto names)

Documents

Why White Americans Are Racists