CONSTITUTION OF KENYA REVIEW OMMISSION

(CKRC)

VERBATIM REPORT OF

CONSTITUENCY PUBLIC HEARINGS, IMENTI CENTRALCONSTITUENCY, HELD AT GITHONGO METHODIST CHURCH

22ND MAY 2002

CONSTITUENCY PUBLIC HEARINGS, IMENTI CENTRAL CONSTITUENCY, HELD AT GITHONGOMETHODIST CHURCH

ON 22ND MAY 2002.

Present:

Com. Abdirizak Nunow Com. Isaac Lenaola

Secretariat staff in attendance:

Solomon anampiu - Programme OfficerMary Kanyiha - Assistant Programme OfficerPatricia Mwangi - Verbatim Reporter

The meeting started at 9:25 a.m.

Tabitha Kyambi: Hamjambo. Jina langu ni Tabitha Kyambi kutoka Githongo, Imenti Central Constituency. Nachukua nafasi

hii kuwakaribisha Commissioners na team yao na ni asante kwa kutufikia na kufika kwenu mapema. Nanyi wananchi

nawashukuru kwa sababu mmejitokeza na mmekuja mapema na kila mtu ana nafasi yake ya kutoa maoni yake. Hata kama

haujayaandika, utayatoa, utasikizwa na yataandikwa. Kwa hivyo sasa kabla hatujaanza tutapata maombi , tumshukuru mungu

kwa sababu ametutendea mema. Nitamuuliza Rev. Daniel Mutia, kasisi wa hapa, atuongoze kwa maombi. Bwana Mutia.

Rev. Mutia: Asante Madam. Nawakaribisha nyote katika kikao hiki na katika Methodist church mahali tuko. Na tuombe.

Baba mwenyezi, tuko mbele zako Bwana tukikutolea shukrani nyingi kwa vile Bwana umetuwezesha kufika mahali hapa, kwa

vile Bwana tumeanza vyema ukawaleta wapendwa wetu Commissioners na wengine wale waliokuja ili tuungane pamoja katika

2

jukumu lililo mbele yetu. Kenya yote bwana tunaendelea na agenda hiii ya kutoa maoni li tukaandike katiba yetu mpya ambayo

tunataka iwe nzuri na ya kutuongoza kwa vizazi vijavyo. Bwana tunaomba ili roho wako mtakatifu akatuongoze . Tunaomba

hekima yako, tunaomba uongozi wako, ili Bwana maoni yote tutakayotoa na Bwana yake yatatolewa na watu wengine, yawe

ya kufaa, yawe maoni Bwana ambayo yatatengeneza katiba itakayokuwa ya kufaa katika nchi yetu. Bwana ninakushukuru kwa

vile ukaona ni vyema wakati huu ukapeane viongozi ya serikali. Bwana endelea kuwalinda na kukaa nasi hata wakati huu

tunangojea elections, hata wakati huu Bwana tuna maoni mengi ili Bwana shetani naye asipate pa kuingilia. Bwana tunataka

ukatuongoze ukikaa na kila mmoja anayetuongoza. Bwana tunamuombea hata President wetu Daniel arap Moi ili kwa wakati

huu Bwana akatuongoze vyema na akipeana mamlaka kwa yule atakayecaguliwa, Bwana tuuone mkono wako wa uongozi.

Bwana tunaomba ili siku hii yote iwe siku nzuri, iwe siku ambayo Bwana tutaona maoni mbali mbali. Bwana tunaomba hata

nguvu za mwili. Tunaomba Bwana tukimaliza kikao chaetu na wale wengine wakimaliza kikao chao Bwana tutakushukuru

tukiona nayo maoni hao yametiliw maanani na wale Bwana watakaoyachukua kuyaandika na kuyafahamu vizuri. Tunaomba

hayo tukijua uko pamoja nasi na ni katika jina la bwana wetu yesu kristo. Amina.

Mungu akawabariki nyote.

Tabitha Kyambi: Asante bwana Mutia. Hebu nichukue nafasi hii kabla sijawapa Commissioners, niwajulishe wana kamati

ambao tunao hapa. Wengine wametoka ----? na wengine huko mwisho na tulikuwa nao Katebe kwa hivyo hawatakuja hapa

leo. Hapa tuko watatu; tuna Marsela Kiogora, Marsela wasalimu watu.

Marsela Kiogora: Hamjambo.

Tabitha: Tuna Mr. David Keruke.

David Keruke: (speaks but inaudible)

Tabitha: Asante. Na mimi ni Tabitha Kyambi kama nilivyo waambia, natoka Githongo. Sasa nitawapa Commissioners

mkutano, wajijulishe kwetu na waendelee. Haiya karibu.

Com: Nunow: Asante sana mama Tabitha. Katika mkutano huu ningependa kuwakaribisha nyote kwa kikao hiki ambacho ni

kikao cha pili katika constituency hii. Kama mnavyojua, kila constituency tunakaa vikao viwili na hiki ni kikao cha pili kati ya

hizo mbili.

Ningependa mwanzo niwajulishe wenzangu ambao wametoka kwenye Tume, kisha niwaeleze utaratibu wa kutoa maoni. Nami

hapa tuna Mr. Isaac Lenaola ambaye ni Commissioner. Kwenye mkono wa kulia ni bwana Anampiu Solomon, ambaye ni

Programme officer wa Tume, karibu naye ni bi Mary Kanyiha ambaye ni naibu wa Programme officer na pia anachukua

3

records ya yale yanayozungumziwa yote. Upande wa mkono wangu wa kulia, tuna bi Patricia Mwangi ambaye ni Mnasa sauti

na pia yeye anaandika yote yanayozungumziwa kwa short-hand ili ipatane na yale yanayoandikwa na Mary.

Patricia Mwangi: Hamjambo.

Com. Nunow: Na huyu ni yule anayehusika na utaratibu wa sauti. Nami ninaitwa Abdirizak Nunow, pia mimi ni

Commissioner. Ningependa kuwaeleza utaratibu inayohitajika tufuate ili tutoe maoni inavyotakikana.

Ya kwanza ni muda. Kwa sababu kila mtu ana haki ya kutoa maoni yake na muda tuliyo nayo si muda isiyo na mwisho, ni

muhimu tumpe kila mtu muda kidogo. Dakika tano kama unayo maandishi; hizi dakika utatumia kuangaza. Utakuwa tu

unafafanua chochote ambacho unafikiria inafaa kufafanuliwa katika hiyo memorandum yako. Hizo ni dakika tano. Kama

haujaandika chochote na unataka kuzungumzia yaliyo moyoni mwako tu, tutakupa dakika kumi. Yanaweza pungua lakini

hayatazidi kumi kwa hivyo ukiweza kuzungumza chini ya dakika ni sawa lakini baada ya dakika kumi, nitalazimika kukuzuia.

Ya pili ni Lugha: Unaweza kutumia lugha yoyote ile. Lugha ambayo unajua kwayo unaweza kujieleza vizuri, utaitumia na kama

si Kiswahili ama Kiingereza, itatafsiriwa.

Ya tatu ni heshima ama jinsi tunatakana tujiendeshe tukiwa hapa. Mtu akiwa anazungumza, tafadhali, hata kama haukubaliani

na yale anayosema, umsikise lakini hamna yeyote aliye na haki ya kumpigia mwingine kelele ama kumzuia kusema yale anataka

kuzungumzia. Kila mtu hapa ana haki na uhuru wa kuzungumza yoyote yale anayotaka kuzungumzia.

La mwisho: Ukiitwa kuzungumza unaketi pale kwa hicho kiti. Utazungumza, na ukimaliza kuzungumza, usiondoke mara moja,

usubiri uambiwe uende pale kwani sisi wana Tume tunaweza uwa na maswali ya ufafanusi. Pengine kuna jambo umezungumzia

na hatukuelewa na kama kuna kitu hatukuelewa, kuiweka kwa record itakuwa ni kitu isiyo-clear kwa hivyo tutauliza ufafanuzi

kama kama kuna kitu haijafahamika vizuri, lakini kama imefahamika vizuri, tutakuambia uje huku kwa bwana Anampiu, kama

una memorandum unapeana pale na kuandika register na kama hauna memorandum pia unaenda pale na kuandikisha kuwa

umetoa maoni mbele ya Tume. Tumeelewana? Kuna mtu yeyote aliye na swali kuhusu niliyoyasema? Okay. Kwa hayo,

tutaanza. Na tutaanza na…..

Asante. Nimekumbushwa nimesema mtu akizungumza apewe heshima zake, tumnyamazie. Lakini akishamaliza, pengine

umefurahia sana yale ameyasema na unashangilia, kwa sababu sauti ina naswa, hiyo kushangilia inaharibu sauti itakayo patika.

Mnaweza cheka nyote mkiwa mmefugnua midomo lakini msitoe sauti. Tafadhadhi tusishangilie sababu hii si baraza wala si

mkutano wa siasa. Sawa sawa? Kama mtu alizungumza vizuri, mpongeze baadaye. Hiyo record itaharibika na ikiharibika watu

wa Githongo watakuwa wameharibu yale maoni yaliyotoka kwao. Unaweza kufurahia sana, umpongeze baadaye lakini msipige

makofi wala msitoe sauti ambayo ita interfere hiyo recording. Asanteni. Imekuwa desturi yetu tangu tuanze kuketi kwamba

4

mtu akitaka kuvuta sigara, asivute kwenye kikao hiki. Hata kama ni open, kwa field, hatumruhusu mtu avute sigara, kwa kanisa

ni zaidi hata kwani ni matusi kwa Mungu. Hiyo imekuwa sheria yetu na ninafikiri tutaendelea nayo. Kama unataka kuvuta

sigara, utafute nafasi ingine lakini usivunje heshima. Nitamwita mtu wa kwanza ambaye ni Barnabas Nkandau.

Com. Lenaola: Sema majina.

Barnabas Ngandu: Majina ya ni Barnabas Ngandu kutoka Katheri East. Wana Tume ya katiba, ningefurahi na kupendeswa

kama katika katiba ya nchi yangu itakayo nilinda na kuwalinda wazalendo wenzangu itawekwa vipengele kama;

Wataalamu wawe wakiteuliwa kama mawaziri wa wizara mbali mbali na si lazima wawe wanasiasa waliochaguliwa kwa kura.

Rais awe na tume ya wataalamu wa kuteuwa.

Pili: Katika katiba, serikali za kikwetu kama vile Njuri- Njeke zirudishwe.

Tatu: Rais awe akienda likizo za lazima na anayeshikilia wakati huo awe na mamlaka kamili ya Rais.

Nne: Picha ya Rais iondolewe kwenye noti na sarafu za nchi na isiwe ni lazima picha hiyo itundikwe kwa maofisi na nyumba za

biashara au maskani mwa watu.

Tano: Katiba ipeane mamlaka ya kuteuwa Tume ya wataalamu wa kiuchumi ili wawe wakichunguza watu kama Rais,

Mawaziri, Makatibu na viongozi wengine vile wanavyo dhuru uchumi wa nchi yetu.

Sita: Katiba impe mpiga kura nguvu ya kumfuguza mbunge kabla ya miaka mitano kama hawamtumikii vilivyo.

Saba: Rais asiwe mwakilishi au MP wa sehemu fulani ya nchi lakini achaguliwe na wananchi wote kama mwakilishi wa nchi,

mbunge wa taifa au state MP.

Nane: Wale wote wote waliofikisha umri wa miaka kimi na nane na hawajaajiriwa kazi wawe wakilipwa na serikali ili wajimudu

kimaisha na kupunguza ualifu nchini.

Tisa: Wale wanaostaafu wawe wakipatiwa maruburubu yao siku chache kabla ya kustaafu na kwenda zao.

Kumi na ya mwisho: Barabara zinazozaidia kuinua uchumi wa chini kama vile barabara ya Meru town kupitia

Katheri,Githongo,Kithirune,Kinoro,Chogoria hadi Nairobi, ziwe zinatiwa lami na ziwe zinapewa huduma na serikali wakati wote

ili kupunguza ajali. Asante.

5

Com. Nunow: Asante bwana Ngandu. Umesema President akiwa kwa leave ama baada ya kumaliza kazi, mtu mwingine

ashike hatamu za President. Nani Huyo?

Barnabas Ngandu: Makamu wake.

Com. Nunow: Asante. Tafadhali njoo huku na ujiandikishe pale. Asante sana kwa maoni yako ambayo yamekuwa focus

points. Siyo story na nini. Na tafadhali ukifika pale, anza na majina yako kwa record kwa sababu hiyo record itaonyesha ni

nani anayezungumza. Ukianza kuzugumza tu bila kutaja jina lako, haitajulikana ni nani amesema. Ndio sababu usipoanza na

jina, unakumbushwa. Stephen Kituma? Inaonekana Stephen amejiandikisha na akatoka. Naftali Mugambi?

Naftali Mugambi: My name is Naftali Mugambi from Katheri Central Location.

I will start with defense and national security: Kenya Army: The Kenya Army being therefore external defense should have a

properly trained officers, well equipped to defend our country. They should be trained for eighteen months or less and after

their training, a quarter of them should remain in the barracks and the remaining three quarters should go to their homes in case

of any outbreak of war, they should be called to the barracks and start earning a salary and other benefits. There is no point

keeping a large number of Army men in the barracks earning fat salaries, house allowances, car allowances, medical benefits

and later they get pensions while in the barracks doing nothing.

Kenya Police: The Kenya police recruitment should be carefully looked into. The Kenya police force must have the most

qualified and educated people because when a doctor operates on a patient and a patient dies within the course of the

operation, it is the police who will be called upon to investigate the case. When a plane crushes and kills people, it it the police

who will be called to investigate. When an accountant in the central bank of Kenya steals money, it is the police who will carry

out the investigation and many others.

In this case the police force should be better housed, should have proper and up to date equipment and should be paid good

salaries and allowances.

Registration: To be elected a member of parliament, a candidate should be an upright man in every respect. He/she should be

academically qualified, a graduate or from the university and should be over forty years of age, married. His/her records should

be checked through from primary school to university and where he has worked to avoid---? and ----? in the high in high

institution of parliament.

The constituents should have all the rights to call their MP who is ----? , if he becomes sick for a period of more than six

months and if the constituents are not satisfied with his work, if he does not visit his people for let us say six months. As for

6

most our MPs, as we see the eclipse of the moon, after a long time. He should be removed from parliament by thirty seven

percent referendum of registered voters in the area.

Parliament should have limited powers when they are discussing their own benefits because recently they gave themselves fat

salaries and allowances. This should be a referendum. The parliament should never have power to remove the president from

office through the vote of no confidence. The president is elected by wananchi and it is only the wananchi who can remove him

from office.

Executive: The president president should have the following qualifications: Over forty years of age, married,

handsome/beautiful, a graduate, professor, Masters in administration, economics and law. He should apply for the job three

years prior to elections so that his records from primary, secondary school can be traced whether in his records he has ever

been stealing a mango or a sugar cane or a pencil in school.

The President should be a member of parliament because his duties are related to parliament and he will work together with the

ministers and members of parliament.

The tenure of office should be three five-year terms.

Provincial Administration: Provincial Administration should continue as it is in

because we have inherited it since the white man introduced it about a hundred years ago. If it is changed abruptly it will bring

problems.

The provincial and district commissioners should be over forty years of age and married. The posts of PC and DC should be

advertised by the public service commission and those who meet the qualifications should be employed. They should have wide

experience in administration, starting from divisional DO.

The posting of a DC and PC should be taken into account. It is not practicable when a woman DC is posted to a DC like a

council of Njuri-Njeke whose culture does not allow them to speak when a woman is around or a Turkana DO is posted a

district where boys are circumcised traditionally. The DO cannot decide such cases because he does not know anything and he

will not be told anything about that issue.

Chiefs and Assistant Chiefs: The chiefs authority should be revived because we have witnessed you people smoking bhang in

front of their chiefs because chiefs have no authority to arresst them, has nowhere to lock them and he has not transport to take

them to court.

Wananchi don’t attend chiefs’ barazas to hear the government important messages. For example when there is an outbreak of

7

cattkle and there is a vaccination of measles and more important case when thereis a war, he cannot order young people to join

t the army and even if the forest catvhes fire, he cannot mobilize the people to go and puit it off.

Judiciary: A supreme court made up of nine judges representing seven provinces, with Nairobi having an extra district being

represented by two, should be established. They should be appointed by the president subject to confirmation by parliament.

It should have powers no other council law in Kenya. It should overrule the president, strike down laws passed by parliament

and decide disputes between provinces, district and division boundaries.

Com. Lenaola: One more minute Mr. Mugambi.

Mugambi: One More Minute?

Succession: This is the most difficult and slippery sensitive. The constitution should state clearly the terms of office; who

should take over incase the president dies of illness, accident or assassination. The president’s on retirement should be shown.

The president should vacate the office three months prior to elections and hand over his duties to the three people who will take

care and manage the government until a new president. The three people are: Chief Justice, Head of civil Service and Speaker

of the national assembly because when the president is in office, people will fear him, expecting benefits incase he is voted in.

Caretaker officials and not the commission should announce the election results of the president.

The powers of the president should be increased.

Com. Nunow: Thank you very much Mr. Mugambi for those views. Let us have you memorandum and you sign the register.

Simon Kimathi. After Simon we will have David Kiruki.

Simon Kimathi: I am Simon Kimathi Aburia from Katheri East location.

The chairman, Constitution Review of Kenya, I would like the following the following to be reviewed;

Presidential retirements benefits Bill by Prof. Peter Anyang’ Nyong’o should be abolished. It was in the Daily Nation of 28th

January 2002 where the retirement benefits of the president estimated at 24 million was suggested.

The retirement benefits of all elected MPs/councilors must be abolished because politics is casual employment for a term of five

years.

Increment of MPs salaries, allowances should be discussed by the Public service commission because recently our MPs

increased their salaries by four hundred per cent.

8

The Minister for agriculture must come from the agricultural areas of Kenya, i.e Eastern, Central and Rift Valley Provinces.

The powers of the president to have prisoners released on national days should continue but the prisoners who are jailed four

years and below should be working in public institutions instead of staying in the prisons doing nothing. I think they should be

working in school, hospitals, rural roads under the supervision of prison warders and chiefs of the location.

Number seven: The high court should make sure that all appeals are completed before six months after the date of registration.

The electoral commission of Kenya should be elected by all parties in parliament.

Number nine: The Attorney General of Kenya must be voted in by secret ballot by all members of parliament. This will make

him fear and he will have court matters dealt with perfectly. The Chief Justice too.

In Kenya we have so many MPs. The nomination of MPs and Councilors should be abolished.

If the president declares anything to be free, it should be. If not, the person responsible should be taken to a court of law.

Any civil servant who is mentally ill should be protected by the government and his salary and benefit given to the next of kin

until he dies.

Number thirteen: The land board control board members should be elected by the member of the public served and not by the

MP or the office of the president.

Lastly, Kenya must remain a multi party country.

Com. Nunow: Thank you very much Mr. Kimathi. Just a moment for clarification. Okay, you are clear. Register yourself

there and let us have your memorandum too.

David Kiruki: My names are David Kiruki Thaara. I wish to present my views to the Commission.

One: This country has experienced a lot of commissions appointed by the president or by the ministers and the findings of most

these commissions are never given to the public. I am therefore suggesting in future or in the constitution that we are writing

now, the President and the minister should be barred from appointing any commission. If there is anything that is required in the

nation, the parliament should appoint the commission through an act of parliament. I am saying this because we normally don’t

get the findings the commissions. For instance the Mwangale commission on JM, the Robert Ouko commission, I don’t

9

remember whether it was a parliamentary commission or by the president but that one was killed before it gave its views.

Directives: We have had numerous directives since Kenya became independent and many of these directives were given by the

president and these directives were too many that the citizens ignored most of these. I will quote an example; whenever there is

an election around the corner, the schools are affected by the directives because parents are told not to pay building funds; your

children should not do evaluation or mock examinations. These directives are never obeyed because Kenyans are too keen. If

they were calling it mock, tomorrow they will call it evaluation test and you find the pupils doing the tests because parents and

teachers think these tests are very important for preparing their students for exams.

Therefore, our constitution should scrap all directives that might be given either by the president or any person in authority. If

there is anything that is important, the parliamentarians should put it in law and that can govern us.

Defections: This country has experienced a lot of defections. When MPs are elected, some are induced by being given some

amount of money to make them change their parties and go to another party and through this the government has lost a lot of

money in by-elections. I therefore think if the MP wants to change sides, they should be given a chance either to cross the floor

and go to the party he wants or use the method recently used by Raila Odinga of dissolving his party and joining the party of his

choice or the method used by Shakombo of shirikisho and if that is done it will avoid the government having to spend a lot of

money in conducting by-elections which are induced through the money that the MPs are given to defect or by any other means.

Let MPs use other ways of defecting. Alternatively, this clause that was put that when one defects from the party that took him

to parliament and joins another party, be removed from the constitution and give the MP a right to join a party of their choice

until the elections are called, then the voters can decide their fate.

Education: We have what we call the 8-4-4 system of education now. This type of education has frustrated a lot of Kenya

children because they are supposed to know every subject so that at the end of the day they get a mean grade of A, B or

whatever grade so that they can join either university or any other institution. I would recommend that this system be scrapped

by the constitution and the education system be reversed to the old system of 7-4-2-3. This will enable our children to excel in

the subject they like best in their forms five and six and then we produce the best caliber of people through specialization. If

that one is done, a lot of brains that are lying idle in our country will be used in the development of this country.

Land distribution: From the time of Independence, land was distributed to Kenyans through the settlement schemes but some

people took big pieces of land. Some settlers who were given land in this country we left with big pieces of land and to date

there are Kenyan who hardly have a small piece to cultivate.

If you go to Timau and along that way, you will find a lot of people are cultivating along road reserves and a settler today has

10

twenty-nine thousand acres of land whereby he own that land alone. My suggestion is that the government should acquire this

land from the settlers and leave every settler with on thousand acres. The rest of the land should be bought by the government

through loans that it can get from donors and compensate the farmer for the development of the land and the remaining land can

be divided to the landless and the landless can repay the government the loan once they are settled in that land.

This should apply not only to white settlers but to our own people who own large sizes of land.

Provision of services: In the past, and I will start with our own area, our road was very bad and was impassable. The matatu

men decided to repair the sections of the road that were bad. They contributed their little money to do the job. When the area

MP heard that, he started wondering what those small men were doing and he started chasing them.

He got the D.C and they started chasing those people, other people----? the same and they were all chased.

They did not repair the road and the people had to walk long distances because the vehicles could not ply the route.

In Timau, in Kisima farm, the settler their wanted to repair a small road during the El-nino rains but the DC stopped him from

repairing the road because the government was supposed to repair the road. To date, that small section has never been

tarmacked so when you drive along that road, you come to that section.

It is for this reason that am saying that where the government is unable to provide the services, and the citizens are able to, they

should do it without any one preventing them.

Number eight: Restricted areas: In nineteen ninety-two, at the start of the multi-party politics, some citizens of this country

were prevented from visiting some North Eastern areas. I remember Oginga Odinga went to Garissa and on landing there he

found himself surrounded by askaris because he was in the restricted area and he could not address the people.

I am therefore suggesting that there should not be any restricted area in Kenya where a citizen should not go. Whether to do his

business, to propagate his political ideas or to do anything else. The citizens should be free to go to any part of Kenya.

I remember at the same time, Kenneth Matiba was prevented from going to Embu, at ----? River, and there was a big queue of

vehicles which were unable to pass that area. He was also prevented from entering Meru at Timau.

I am therefore saying that our constitution should state clearly that no citizen should be prevented from visiting any part of this

country, in other word, there should be no restricted areas.

Com. Nunow: The last two points.

David Kiruki: This one is very important; bankruptcy: The bankruptcy law has been used in this country to frustrate MPs.

Whenever an MP differs with the power that be, the MP, and particularly the opposition MP, are always threatened with

bankruptcy. Am therefore requesting that in our constitution, the MPs should be exempted from the bankruptcy law when they

are sitting MP. When the parliament period ends, these people can then be prosecuted on the bankruptcy counts.

11

I will touch of the PSs’ and Chiefs: Permanent Secretaries are people who do not know their fate because they can be sacked

any hour over the radio. At one o’clock you listen to the names of the Permanent Secretaries being read out and when you

hear someone’s name has been omitted, you know that that one has been sacked.

It is my recommendation that the president should not appoint these people; the Public service Commission should appoint them

and that Commission should be responsible for sacking and hiring them.

We have these very important people who live here; chiefs: Chief are people who solve a lot of domestic problems and I will

quote from our constituency. So many chiefs have been sacked because they do not agree with the MPs. Once the chief does

not agree with the MP, that one is sacked; we have so many who have been sacked but I don’t want to mention names.

In other words, it appears as if the MPs are the employers of the Chiefs. I am therefore recommending that if our system is

going to maintain the chiefs, let them be employed through the channels through which they are employed and immediately they

get employed, they should not be sacked the way they are being sacked today. If there is any case, let them be interdicted like

any civil servant and let us have a body that will listen to their case and once the case is determined, then the chief can be

sacked.

Today a chief is like a permanent secretary; when he does not agree with an MP, the following day, that man is sacked and so

many have been sacked in this constituency through the influence of MPs.

I have got a few other points but allow me just to mention something on the presidency because I did not use your guidelines; I

mentioned the things that affect us here most.

Our constitution should stipulate the age of the president and how the president should govern this country. If the constitution is

to be changed, we should have eighty-five per cent majority and this will do away with manipulation because MPs are at times

bought but it is impossible to buy eighty-five percent of MPs.

Thank you very much; I got only one point left.

Com. Nunow: Thank you bwana Kiruki. In the last statement on the President you mentioned that the age of the president

should be stipulated. What age bracket do you have in mind?

David Kiruki: The president should retire at the age of eighty and should be elected from any age group of the people who

are eligible to vote. I am saying this because being elected is not a simple thing. First of all you must convince Kenyans to elect

you their president and even if you are eighteen and you are able to convince them to elect you as president, let you be their

president.

But as you know, this clause was changed where someone said during Kenyatta’s period that for one to become a president

they must be thirty-five years because Kenyatta was threatened by Mboya and JM so they they brought that so fast in

12

parliament, the constitution was changed, and then those people were locked out.

It is for this reason that I am saying because part of the constitution was changed to serve someone’s interests, we should revert

back now and have anybody who is illegible to vote, a registered to voter, should be able to be elected as president so long as

he convinces Kenyans to elect him.

Com. Nunow: Thank you very much for those views. Please register yourself. Kimaita Jeremiah? Then we will have Reuben

Ndubi. Are you there?

Jeremiah Kimaita: ---- (speaks in Kimeru)

Translator: I am Jeremiah Kimaita.

Kimaita Jeremiah: ----

Translator: What I want to say is as follows.

Kimaita Jeremiah: ----

Translator: I am recommending to the commission that if a woman was to be a member of parliament, she should be married

and whenever she is presenting anything it should be written by the husband or somebody else so that it can be presented.

Kimaita: ----

Translator: He is recommending that the woman should be married and whenever she is talking she should be accompanied

by the husband.

Kimaita: ----

Translator: I am recommending to the commission that no man should wear a woman’s dress and the ladies should not dress

in men’s clothes.

Kimaita: ----

Translator: If one is caught dressed improperly, they should be arrested and prosecuted.

Kimaita: ----

Translator: Thanks. That is what I wanted to tell the commission.

Com. Nunow: Okay. Thank you very much bwana Kimaita, tafadhali njoo ujiandikishe pale. Ndubi Reuben. After Reuben

we will have Kinoti.

13

Ndubi Reuben: Thank you. My names are Reuben Ndubi, I am representing Kairune Water Project.

One: Roads and feeder Road’s drainage; at present our roads are damaged by rain water because it runs on them for miles

and kilometers without being checked up causing serious soil erosion.

A law should be passed by parliament whereby roads drainage should be made on peoples’ shambas as it was in the past

years.

Two: Quota system of education; the quota system of education has existed in Kenya for some years and am suggesting that,

because students in Kenya pursue the same level, they should be admitted in our universities following academic performance.

Three: Free education to university level; as per now Kenyans are overtaxed. I am suggesting that the government should

increase indirect taxation so that our pupils can pursue education to university level freely.

Four: Free medical care; at present Kenyan people are almost unable to pay for the cost of education and medical care

because they have become too expensive. The government should try to provide free medical care at all levels.

Five: Land ownership limitation; in Kenya we have many landless people and many others with hundreds of acres that are lying

undeveloped. We are suggesting that the maximum land one should have in Kenya should be twenty acres.

Six: Local authorities and their services; local authorities get their dues from the small markets started in Kenya but funny

enough they give no services to those small markets.

Therefore we are suggesting that if they give no service, they should not collect any levies from those markets.

Seven: Fountains of water: All the fountains of water should be taken care of because when we reach the month of July in our

constituency, all the streams dry off, the small creature die yet they all are Gods creatures; this is because of blue gum trees

which have been planted near the fountains of water, along the streams and the swampy areas.

Eight: Freedom of Worship; the children should not be forced to go to school on Saturday because Saturday is the seventh day

of God according to the bible in the book of Exodus 20:8-11. Those in secondary schools must be permitted to worship on

that day, within or without the school compound.

Nine: The president; the president should be at least forty to forty-five years of age and should be a graduate from any

university because our present president did not even reach the university.

He should be in office for two terms each having five years hence a total of ten because a forty-five year old man is a mature

person and can be able to rule any country.

14

The president should be a member of parliament and should be attending the sessions at least twice a week. I am saying this

because our current president does not appear in parliament. He only appears during the opening session or on special

occasions.

I beg the commission that I move. Thank you.

Com. Nunow: Okay bwana Ndubi, you have been understood. Please register yourself there, hand in the memorandum and

when one hands in a memorandum, we will read every word in it. They are put in the computer, printed out and given to all the

commissioners in a sitting so you should not struggle to go through it. That is why you need to mention the points, so that you

highlight them but the details will be read by all the twenty seven commissioners, not only the two of us.

Obed Konoti? Then we will have Gerald Mwirigi after him.

Obed Kinoti: Thank you. I am Obed Kinoti Mutia, a committee member from Katheri West.

It is my wish to mention a few things that I think the constitution of Kenya is supposed to have to have.

A Preamble: I feel it should have a preamble for it is the introduction that needs to reflect or rather to mirror the interests of the

society and of course its fears so it is important for lour constitution to have the introductory part of it.

It also needs to have the vision that tells us that this country, the geographical expression we know as Kenya has the originality

and more so is futuristic so it must repeat in itself the vision and in that the common experience of the ordinary citizen needs also

to be mentioned in the constitution.

There are also some of the important values, which are known worldwide, and it has to show that really it restores the respect

of those principles. That is, the liberty of thought and expression; when I say the liberty of thought and expression, I mean that

people need to think freely without being governed and they need to express themselves freely without being curtailed from

doing so.

The People should also have opportunities of either refusing or accepting, that is deserting, be they a minority or an individual,

he needs to air his views freely and have the opportunity to know things freely.

Another thing is when there are political conflicts occurring. A way needs to be found where those conflicts are solved once

and for all; either through voting and those who are defeated accept that they have been so that there is a rationality of those

things, i.e. through the accepted means. In doing so there will be a widespread confidence in and loyalty to the constitution

I would also want to mention a few things, which I feel, are important n the local government because it is the local government,

which is so close to the common mwananchi.

15

The Mayor and Chairman need to be elected directly by the people because they are the representatives of the people through

the council. Then the council should operate under the authority of the councilors and the chief officer.

There is the question of the minimum requirement for education for a councilor. In the world today education is very important

and I feel that a councilor needs to be an educated literate person capable to communicate effectively and more so to

understand geopolitics hence an ordinary person with form four level of education is acceptable and it should be seen that he

has qualified in that level.

When it comes to the language test, I am not convinced that when they are tested they are proved ---? A written language test

needs to be there for a councilor, written in either Kiswahili or English or both.

The moral qualification for a local authority seat, if a councilor is known to be a fellow who is a good fighter, who is not

respected by the community out there, then he is not supposed to be elected.

The people should have a right to recall their councilor. A way has to be there where if a councilor is proved not worth the salt,

the people can recall him or her.

There are areas where the minister in charge of the local government dissolves the local government. Unless the local

government seems to be unviable, that it is not able to run itself, then the minister can dissolve the local government.

Another issue I will mention about is the system of education. Presently our system of education, the 8-4-4 system, has a lot of

shortcomings; it shows a lot of things where students are not able to grasp and in the long run, we have half-baked graduates,

half-baked form four graduands.

The new system needs to be somehow mixed up so that we have the two systems and may be if there is another system out

there, which has not been brought to Kenya, it should be tested so that we have two or three things running parallel. I don’t

mean that the new system is not a good system however with the present situation and may be the new things coming, the 8-4-4

system is expensive, our country cannot afford it; few schools can, others cannot, so it is important for our country to have the

so called old system.

Com. Nunow: Your last point Mr. Kinoti.

Kinoti: I will touch on the land issue; land is a very sensitive issue in this country. It is my own idea that somebody owning a

thousand acres of land has too much. It should be reduced by half and the government should take the rest and pay that

gentleman or lady and the willing buyer-willing seller should be taken to the squatters, those with money.

When it comes to ownership/inheritance, the land board, where the MPs do influence, men of respect from the ordinary

citizenry, say for instance the Njuri-Njeke, need not to be pushed around by the MP. We need trusted men to be in the board.

16

Thank you, those are my views.

Com. Nunow: Thank you Mr. Kinoti. We do not have any question, so register yourself there. Mwirigi Gerald. Then after him

we will have Mwirigi N’to Nkanatha.

Gerald Mwirigi: Commissioners of the Constitution review commission, I would like to present the following. I am Gerald

Mwirigi from Katheri central location, I am a commissioner of the commission of justice and peace in Kenya, I am also the

coordinator for CJPC ---? Parish, I am also a civic education provider.

Preamble: We need a preamble in our constitution; the national vision which may set out the Preamble that the Kenya

constitution belongs to all Kenyans, Kenyan citizens, and the same citizens should be conducted if there is any need to make

any constitutional amendments.

That if anybody tries to change the constitution without consulting the Kenya citizens, they should be punished by law set out in

the constitution. All Kenyan citizens should protect the constitution by all means possible.

The common experiences to be reflected in the preamble are:

The constitution be written in simple language that all Kenyan can understand;

The constitution to be made available to all Kenyans; those who would wish to buy copies for their use should be able to find it

affordable;

That all matters pertaining to the struggle for independence and thereafter be reflected in our constitution;

Directive principle of state policy; yes we should have statements capturing the national philosophy and the guiding principles.

The democratic principles, which should be included in the constitution, are:

Individual sovereignty, separation of powers between the executive, parliament and the judiciary, fundamental human rights

including information for all, free fair and frequent election and respect for electoral institutions, rights of access and respect of

property, right to land and natural resources, public welfare e.g. education, health and transport and environment in provision

for social justice and equity, equal distribution of goods, finances and services to influence decision making and policy.

In international affairs...

Com. Nunow: Mr. Murigi, just a moment. You are going very fast so that we can finish. We will read that memorandum in

every detail, so pick out the points, know that you are being recorded by the tape and by hand so you don’t have to try to…

you now, because you have limited time to read through very fast. Highlight the key points and then we will have the

memorandum.

17

Mwirigi: In the financial affairs, to be free to choose our friends, partners and collaborators and defining our enemies.

The type of defense we should have: Kenyans have important values that should be defended in the constitution. They are

socio-cultural values, local languages, protection of children, women and ---?, succession, procedures, nationality, political

philosophy like harambee, these principles should be enforced in law.

Constitution supremacy: Parliament should continue to make constitutional amendments but with seventy-five per cent majority

rule and citizens should be informed about the intended amendments for their comment.

Parliament power to amend the constitution should be limited by first contacting the public for comment. All constitutional

amendments should be done by parliament in consultation with the public.

All constitutional amendments are vital hence should be conducted through a referendum. The constitution review commission

should conduct the referendum.

Citizenship: All Kenyans by birth should be regarded as automatic citizens. Kenyan citizenship can also be acquired by

registration if the authority is satisfied with the applicant’s reasons. Kenyans citizens’ spouses should be entitled to automatic

citizens regardless of gender.

Children of one Kenyan parent should not be entitled to automatic citizenship, each case should be considered on its own merits

regardless of parent’s gender.

Size of citizens should be considered equated in distribution of goods and services, they should enjoy all fundamental human

rights as per the universal declaration of human rights of the united nations of 1948, protection of life and property, protection of

life and property, should have access to land policies, full participation in elections, socio-economic welfare e.t.c, to join any

political of his choice, free to contest any political seat regardless of gender, be properly educated.

Obligation of citizens: citizens should not engage in in corruption, should be loyal to their country, should protect the

constitution, and should be ready to protect his or her country against aggression, should protect the Kenyan boundaries, should

not advocate for nepotism and tribalism etc.

Rights and obligations of citizens should depend on the manner in which citizenship was acquired.

The constitution should not allow dual citizenship. Kenyan citizens should carry national identity cards as evidence of

citizenship.

18

Defense and national security: Disciplined forces and paramilitary should be established by the constitution. A code of conduct

should be enacted to discipline the armed forces.

The president should remain the commander in chief of the armed forces for security reasons of the country and to counter

check the forces’ generals.

The executive should contact parliament, if he wants to declare war, for mandate.

The constitution should permit use of extra-ordinary powers in emergency situations such as in national disasters, ---? and

breakdown of public order but parliament should discuss this before action is taken.

Com. Nunow: One more minute please.

Mwirigi: Political parties should mobilize the public on political issues but should also help in the development of the state,

distribution of the country’s resources, protection of the constitution, check on tribalism, on job opportunities, check on

expenditure of public finances and inform the public accordingly.

The constitution should regulate the formation, management and conduct of political parties.

Political parties should be limited. We should have a minimum of two and a maximum of three political parties to avoid political

brokers.

Political parties should be financed by their members; they should not be financed from public funds. They should strictly be

financed by their members’ contributions.

All political parties should be loyal to the state and equal.

Structures and systems of government: We should not retain the presidential system of government in Kenya. We should

adopt the parliamentary system of government, which gives room to the post of Prime Minister and more or less a ceremonial

president.

The present powers of the president should be shared should be shared with the prime minister on their own merit. The

executive authority should be within the president and the prime minister on their own merit.

Com. Nunow: Thank you Mr. Mwirigi. That is what brings us to the end of your eight minutes instead of five, am afraid I

cannot give you more than that. Please register, we will read the details in the paper.

19

Mr. Mwirigi: Thank you.

Com. Nunow: N’to Nkanatha.

N’Nkanatha: I am Mwirigi N’to Nkanatha, a retired lecturer and member of Society for International Development, Kenya

section. My presentation is as follows;

On land: Land has always been close to the hearts of many Kenyans. Land disputes are very common and an official research

indicates that close to forty per cent of the civil and criminal cases in court are related to land.

My recommendations: A permanent land commission should be set up as it is in South Africa and it should be included in the

new constitution.

An independent land court should be set up to hear to hear land disputes, it should be included in the constitution. Judges and

magistrates of this court should be acceptable to the judicial commission and to the Kenyans who know the members’ integrity.

The members of the land control boards should be men or women of integrity and approved by the members of their

community.

The transfer and the inheritance of land rights in the constitution should be eased and made affordable to the poor to the poor

Kenyans. The transfer fee should not be more than one per cent of the value of the land.

All the members of the family must be informed and should sign the official forms to agree on the sale of their land or the land

parcel. The buyer should consult the members of the family owning the land before the final payment is made. If no proper

control transactions were followed, or the land control board without the approval of the family, the buyer should loose the land

as well as payment if proved there was corruption involved.

The constitution should guarantee access to land for every Kenyan. A referendum should be held on the maximum and the

minimum on individual ownership of land.

My second issue is on water: All should get access to clean water. Individual water problems should be encouraged and

should not be taxed or taken over by the government. Dams should be filled to collect water during the rainy season.

I am thinking of the arid areas whereby water can be conserved if dams are there to collect water during the rainy season.

20

Three: Food security; our country needs food security. It is only South Africa that has got food security. There should be a

permanent food commission as it is in South Africa. The members of the commission should be men and women of integrity.

On pensions: I am recommending that the pensioners’ welfare be improved and their increments be made as per salary rise

until one dies. This should be reviewed from time to time. The dependants should get benefits for a reasonable specified time

after the death of a pensioner.

N.S.S.F: On early retirement or retrenchment, the contributors should get their benefits but should not wait until they reach the

age of fifty.

On culture: Culture and ethnic values profitable to Kenyans should be included in the new constitution. The Meru of Kenya

have a very rich culture and the njuri-njeke should be consulted on Meru culture to be included in the constitution.

On language: The constitution should recognize and promote indigenous Kenyan languages. No language should be left to die.

The UNESCO encourages the preservation of all languages in the world. Kenyan languages should also be studied in our

universities.

Ombudsman: Kenya should establish and include the office of an ombudsman in the constitution.

On human rights and other conventions: Kenya should include conventions and human rights in their constitution.

Salaries and benefits of MPs: A salary commission, composed of Kenyans of integrity and some MPs, should be set up to look

into this. The MPs should not increase their salaries. Their salaries should be in line with the salaries of other Kenyans. Other

Kenyans should hold a referendum on the salaries and benefits in view of the MPs.

On the succession and inheritance Act: The succession act should be simplified and explained to Kenyans. The law should

make it easier for the poor Kenyan who cannot afford court to file a succession.

On legal aid: Kenyans should have constitutional right to legal aid. Legal advisory centers should be established to help the

needy Kenyans who cannot afford lawyers.

Finally I say the constitution, when it will be made, should be respected and should not be changed without the knowledge of

the people.

I am also recommending that Kenyan should be taught in continuous civic education about their constitution so that they can

know what is wrong with their constitution and when you come, they can be able to present their views. Thank you

21

Com. Nunow: Thank you very much Mr. Mwirigi for your precise focused presentation. You could clear, please let us have

your memorandum, and you could also sign the register. Students of Katheri high school, do you have spokespersons? Who is

going to speak on your behalf? You be ready, you will soon be called upon to present. Tabitha? After Tabitha Kyambi, we

will have the first representative of the students speaking.

Tabitha Kyambi: Thank you. My names are Tabitha Kyambi and these are my views concerning the constitution:

Constitution supremacy: Parliament? should not be amended by a majority of sixty-five per cent, instead, let it be eighty per

cent.

A constitution review commission consisting of all stakeholders should be established.

Parliament powers should be limited; they should be taken by the commission.

The public should be involved in the amendment of the constitution through a referendum. The constitution review commission

should conduct the referendum.

Legislature: Parliament should have two chambers. The functions of parliament should be expanded to include selecting

ministers, -----? , and to develop a timetable for the affairs of the house.

Parliament should have unlimited powers to control their own procedures. Being a member of parliament should be a full time

occupation.

Voting age should be eighteen. To be elected to parliament, one should be twenty-five, and for the presidency, one should be

forty to seventy-five years.

Language tests are not sufficient so the candidate should have passed in those languages in the K.C.S.E examination.

People should have a right to recall their MP. A constituency parliamentary committee to look at the matters of recalling should

be established. It should consist of the following; all MPs, all religious leaders, NGO’s and opinion leaders. Those will make a

committee to into the recalling of the MP.

An MP should not act on the conscience of the party but of the electorate.

We should retain the concept of nominated MPs. These nominations should be for some groups that have no represantation in

parliament. The groups include people with disability, women, religious groups, professionals and the minority groups.

22

The constitution should allow for a coalition government. We should have the multi party government in all levels.

Electoral system: We should practice the representative system system. The electoral process should be designed in such a

way as to increase the participation of all groups.

The minimum percentage for votes for the presidency should be fifty-one per cent. A candidate who fails to get nomination in

one party should not be allowed to seek nomination in another party.

Structure of the government: We should not retain the presidential system; we should adopt the parliamentary one.

In the matter of defense and security, we should have disciplined forces and there should be way to curb corruption in those

forces.

The executive should have power to declare war; the parliament should powers invoke wars.

Basic rights: Our constitution should provide for fundamental requirements. There should be other ways where it should look

into this.

Rights to inherit land: A woman should have a right to inherit property incase of the death of her husband.

Economic and social rights should be for all citizens.

Peace and security, and especially to people with disability, mostly the mentally disabled should be taken care of.

The constitution should take particular attention in some issues like health. There should be free treatment for all Kenyans.

There should be a national hospital fund where every citizen should be included to contribute something, even those who are in

self-employment so they can have health services when they need them

There should be adequate public health personnel including doctors because in our country today, one doctor can serve up to

five hundred patients. That makes it impossible to give adequate attention for health.

Water: There should be a policy where all areas are supplied with water with minimum costs. Irrigation should be extended

even to the arid areas. Rural areas should get water free and the urban areas should have water at cheaper rates.

23

Education: Education should be free for all pupils and when we come to university they should get loans; there should be loans

and they repaid it after they get employed.

Employment: Every person should be employed whether in public, private or personal employment. This will be possible if the

government will loan the people to start either industries or businesses so that everybody can have something to do but without

loans it is very impossible for people to continue.

Those who retire should have their pensions reviewed just as other salaries are being reviewed and increased according to their

grades.

Therefore there should be a scheme where the government or private developers built houses both in the urban areas or in the

rural areas where the people will be paying for those houses slowly. By that, every body will be able to have a house.

Com. Nunow: The last on e point Madam.

Tabitha Kyambi: About street People: These street people are there because men do not care when they bear children they

just leave them there. Every child has a father and the father should take the responsibility. For those who are din the street

today, the government should have a policy where they built schools and institutions to take these children.

There are also street families; these street families should be given land or should be counted as landless and be settled

alongside the other landless people. Thank you.

Com. Nunow: Thank you madam Tabitha Kyambi for those views. The first representative of the student?

Robert Muriuki: I am Robert Muriuki from Katheri High school presenting our views. My first view is that the government

should not consist of only the ruling party ministers but also the opposition ministers. When you look in our parliament, many

ministers are from the ruling party KANU; the opposition too should be involved.

My second view is that the secondary education fees be reduced. Although the government tried to reduce the amount, the

thing was not good. They need to reduce it again because you seee that at the moment, the economic situation in our country is

not good.

Rapists: Any rapist caught must be arrested and be prosecuted and be jailed for many years and not only for many years but

should be ---? Because it is a serious thing which mostly occur to students.

24

Free education in primary schools: Of course the government is trying to solve this thing, the facilities are not being provided. If

the government really intends dto make primary education free, all facilities needed in schools should be provided to the

students.

Another thing is the establishment of government children homes; many children’s homes are owned by individuals or are

private. The government should try and establish children homes.

Another view is that anybody found practicing female circumcision should be arrested and be prosecuted. Of course this is

going own in our district; Meru District and this thing should be taken seriously by the government and anybody found practicing

it should be jailed.

Another thing is that any parent found engaging his/her child in marriage affairs when the child has not reached the stage of being

married, or he/she has not completed school, then the parent should be arrested and be prosecuted. We students, and

especially girls, are forced by their parents to be married whereas they have not completed their education and urge the

constitution review commission that this view be indicated din the constitution that any parent who will be found be arrested and

prosecuted.

Those are the views I had from my fellow students.

Com. Nunow: Thank you very much Robert for those views, please register yourself there, and you can leave the paper with

the point behind. Next?

Linet Mukiri: I am Linet Mukiri from Katheri High school. I am going to present my views.

The first one: Children should have their rights e.g. education. Some parents think that girls should not go to school because

they do not have importance in life; that they are going to be married and leave the family and educate the family but in my view

girls should go to school because they have the right to do all that men can do.

Now days we see that girls can do most of the jobs that men can do.

The next one is gender equality in parliament: We can see in our parliament, there are few women than men. Most of the

parliamentarians are men.

The next one is inheritance: Inheritance should be shared equally among the girl child and the boy child. We can see that

parents think that the girl child should not have any inheritance in the family but she should because she has a right in the family.

25

That is all.

Com. Nunow: Thank you very much Linet. Just a clarification, if you don’t mind just remain there.

Com. Lenaola: Thank you Linet for your views regarding parliament. You said that women must also have representation.

Would you like a percentage of women in parliament or what is your thought about how we should get women to parliament?

Linet: They should be equal.

Com. Lenaola: Fifty-fifty?

Linet: Yes.

Com. Lenaola: Thank you.

Com. Nunow: Thank you very much. Now I will call somebody else and there after I will come back to Katheri again.

Zipporah Gikunda?

Zipporah Gikunda: I am Zipporah Gikunda from Katheri east location and my views are:

The disciplined forces should be established by the constitution.

Two: The parliament should have exclusive powers to declare war.

The president should not be the commander in chief of the Armed forces but instead their should be a defense minister to handle

that office.

Four: The MP should be full time employed with specific dates set for parliament and those that serve the community should

have offices established by the government at the constituency level.

Five: The MPs should serve on the basics and instruction of the constituents.

The terms and conditions of service for the MPs should be set by the public service commission to avoid the MPs awarding

themselves salaries and allowances.

26

There should be no special measures to increase women in parliament.

There should be no nominated MPs and councilors since political leaders should be those people who are popular.

The constituents should have the power to recall their members of parliament or councilors by writing a memorandum to ECK,

which should have signatures, ID numbers and electors card numbers for their voters.

As much as much as possible, the ministerial and permanent secretary’s posts should be given to people with relevant

qualification regarding the nature of their of their post.

The MPs work is on a five year term contracts so there should be no pension for the same term.

The appointment for the Attorney General, Chief Justice and all kinds of judges should be made by the judicial service

commission in consultation with parliament.

All chiefs and Assistant chiefs should undergo an administrative training after which they can be posted anywhere in the republic

like any other civil servant who can be transferred anywhere at any time.

All medical services should be offered free of charge to all.

There should be compulsory and free education for all at all levels of government learning institutions.

All family land disputes, succession inclusive, should be handled by the elders after which their decision should be forwarded to

the land board to avoid court charges. During the sharing of family land, it should be stated by the law that a certain part of the

land, to be determined by the size of the land, should be set aside and the rest be shared among the sons. The part set aside

should be left for the daughters in case they are not married or in case of divorce.

Incase a father dies and has left no will specifying how his property should be shared, his property should be shared equally to

his sons with apart being left for the unmarried daughters in case.

Incase of any divorce, all the property, which was acquired by the couple during their stay together, should be shared equally

between the two.

The laws governing marriage and divorce should be clearly stated that the wife is the official next of kin to the husband and is

the rightful owner of all the property in case of the death of the husband and vice-versa.

27

To avoid the registration of tribal political parties, every political party wishing to be registered should have at least twenty-five

per cent of voters from every province.

In case there is any need for investigation to be done through a commission of enquiry, the commissioners should be appointed

by parliament and their findings to be made public.

The land in Kenya should be shared equally and the biggest land portion should be fifty acres per household.

Health centers should be established in every location.

The village polytechnic should be in every location and should be free.

The constitution should be written in all languages in Kenya e.g. Ki-Meru for every body.

When voting, secret ballot should be used.

All the coffee payments should be made after every three months delivery.

All the handicapped should be taken care of by the government.

The civil service commission should employ all civil servants by merit and competence in the field.

Agricultural areas, which provide much, produce e.g. coffee, tea, wheat and maize should have tarmac roads.

The judicial service commission should appoint electoral commissioners. Their qualification should be competent lawyers.

The electoral commission should enjoy the security of tenure and should serve for ten years.

The minimum qualification for Mps should be a university degree and fluency in English and Kiswahili languages.

The minimum qualification for a councilor should be a form four grade, at least of division three and fluency in English and

Kiswahili.

Nobody has the power to dissolve local government councils.

28

Presidential functions should be defined. The constitution should set limits on presidential powers.

The president is not above the law and should be prosecuted like any other wrong doer.

Com. Nunow: Thank you very much Zipporah for those views, please hand in your memorandum and sign the register.

Katheri? Katheri School? Is there somebody else in Katheri who wants to speak other than presenting his or her

memorandum? Okay, thank you.

Jacinta Maingi: Thank you very much. I am Jacinta Maingi from Katheri high school and specifically from Katheri west

location. These are my views:

There should be a reduction on the powers of the president, for example, he should not be above the law; Secondly, he should

not have powers to dissolve parliament at his own pleasure; Thirdly, he should not have the power to fire and hire civil servants

at leisure.

I feel that the president should be educated up to a certain level and he should acquire certain qualifications. For example, in the

old educational system, he should have attained at least a division two, and in the 8-4-4 system he should have a minimum of a

grade B.

My second view is on land laws: There should be fair distribution of land and in Kenya we should not be talking about quotas.

Every one owns this land and we should have a fair share.

Secondly, idle land should be utilized; we have a lot of idle land lying without being used. For instance, we should reclaim

marginal areas by irrigation.

Lastly on land, public land should be protected from grabbing. Of late we have heard school, church, hospital, street land and

so on being grabbed. Such land should be very very protected.

My third view is on the separation of three arms of government; the executive, the legislature and the judiciary. We have had a

situation where the executive seems to be controlling all the others and the judiciary at the present seems not be independent at

all.

My fourth one is that cabinet ministers should be allocated with ministries where they have skills. We have had, for example, a

teacher being a minister of health and other such issues. We should have ministers who have the skills and the knowledge in the

ministries that they are given.

All Kenyans should be given opportunities in many areas e.g. there is a lot of gender disparity in the cabinet and in the senior

government posts. It is my feeling that men and women should be given equal opportunities based on their qualification and not

29

on sex.

The other area is on tribal inclinations where we find that at the moment, some senior government officer, DCs, Dos, PCs, seem

to be coming from particular tribes. I think all Kenyans who are qualified should be given an opportunity to serve and not all

important posts being reserved for certain tribes.

Six: All the commissions that are appointed should be approved by parliament.

Seventh: Citizenship; there has been some discrimination, where we find that if a Kenyan woman marries a foreigner, that

foreigner, that foreigner does not qualify to be a Kenyan citizen, but if a Kenyan man marries a foreign woman, that woman

becomes a Kenyan citizen automatically. I feel that both men and women should be given equal rights as far as that one is

concerned.

Eight: The laws enforcing human rights should be more strengthened to protect the rights of all citizens e.g. on rape, violence,

the rights of prisoners, (we all read about the case in King’ong’o and it was not very pleasant), rights of the handicapped, and

rights of the children. I feel that the laws of Kenya should do something to protect various parties.

My ninth point is on environmental laws. They should be more forceful. There has been a wave of destroying forests, the

Karura, the Mount Kenya forest, and this has done a lot of damage in destroying the catchment areas.

The laws regarding dumping of waste should too be looked into very carefully. Those of us who have crossed the Nairobi

River know how it looks like. That river is dead; it looks green and I believe all the animals living there are all dead. We should

have strong rules monitoring the disposal of waste.

The environmental conventions that we have should be made to work.

The other point is that there should be strict laws governing the use of firearms by policeman. It is only yesterday when we

heard of a matatu driver who was shot by a policeman who was in a vehicle because he was blocking his way. He just

removed his gun and shot at the driver.

Most of our policemen are misusing those arms; the laws regarding that should be looked into very carefully.

The other point is on agriculture: We all know that agriculture is the back-born of this nation and the Kenya farmer at the

moment is going through a lot of hardships. For example, there is a lot of unfair competition from imported agricultural produce,

e.g. importation of eggs from South Africa, powdered milk, sugar yet Kenyans are producing and theirs are going to waste.

We all know that some sugar factories have been closed, they have the ability to produce, yet we are importing sugar from

outside, we are importing rise from outside.

30

The Kenyan farmer should be given an opportunity and we should not have factories closing down and workers being send

home and the farm produce going to waste.

The marketing of farm produce should also be streamlined. The Kenyan farmer is crying. We know what has happened to the

coffee, milk, and sugar industries. The marketing of our produce should be looked into more carefully. There should be laws

protecting the farmer.

Lastly on the farmer, taxes on farm inputs should be lowered to enable the small-scale farmers to afford them. Those from this

area know that, because we are farmers, and the fertilizers are very expensive. The government should subsidize those prices.

My last point is on food policy: There was a food policy that was put in action in 1980 but it is no longer operational. We

know we have been fed with yellow maize yet we are a very productive country. The law should have the food policy being

practical, where there is assurance of food for all and reserve food that should be used even if we had famine for ten years,

because this is a country that is very very productive. Thank you.

Com. Nunow: Thank you very much Mwalimu. Just hold for clarification questions.

Com. Lenaola: Thank you Madam. You said that Kenya should not have any squatters and you also said each person must

be allowed access to land but you did not tell us what minimum a person should own and what maximum a Kenya should own.

Would you please do that?

Jacinta Maingi: Okay, thank you. Because we find the situation at the moment is that we have some people who have

thousands and thousands of acres and others having none, the minimum I feel should be five acres for each Kenyan and a

maximum of may be thirty or twenty but every one should have at least five acres of land.

Com. Nunow: Thank you very much, please if you could register, sign the register and let us have you memorandum. Zakayo

Karantimi? After Zakayo we will have Reuben Kaimenyi.

Zakayo M’Murungi: Majina yangu ni Zakayo Karantimi M’Murungi, na ninataka kutoa maoni yangu kwa hii Tume ya

marekebisho ya katiba na kwanza nataka kusema ya kwambani lazima katika katiba yetu kuwe na huduma kwa kila

mwananchi.

Ninafurahi nikitoa zile huduma muhimu kwa wananchi, hata ingawa tuna mengi, ni lazima mwananchi wa Kenya apate elimu ya

bure, afya bora, na hata barabara mzuri ikikumbukwa ya kwamba ukulima ndio uti wa mkongo wa nchi yetu. Kwa hivyo watu

31

wengi ni wakulima na mazao yao hayafiki mahali inatakikana ifike kwa soko.

Ya pili ni siasa: Katika mikutano ya siasa, unaona mingi inafurugwa ama inasemekana ya kwamba kuna ukosefu wa usalama

halafu mikutano inafurugwa na polisi na tukiangalia kwa upande mwingine, tunaona ni vya vyama vingine vinafurugwa lakini

hatujawahi kusikia mikutano ya chama kinacho tawala vikifurugwa kwa sababu ya usalama

Kwa siasa,ninaonelea vyama vyote vilindwe na polisi, sio kuyatawanya.

Tatu ningetaka kusema kwa wananchi wa Kenya, mwananchi mmoja awe na kazi moja. Kwa sababu tunaonelea watu wengi

wakishikilia kazi mbili, tatu na hali wengine hawana pa kutoa chakula na inasemekana Kenya hakuna kazi. Watu wamesoma,

wanarudi nyumbani hali tunaona wengi wanashikilia kazi mbili au tatu.

Ningetaka hata kupendekeza ya kwamba wale wafanyi kazi wa umma wasiruhusiwe kufanya biashara kwa sababu inatatiza

huduma ya serikali kwa wananchi sababu wanakataa kwenda transfer. Kwa sababu hauwezi kumtoa mfanyi kazi hapa,

umpeleke mbali na biashara yake. Kwa hivyo ifikiriwe ya kwamba mfanyi kazi ya umma asiruhusiwe kufanya biashara.

Ya nne nataka kupendekeza ya kwamba Rais apite kwa kura zaidi ya asili mia hamsini, apate kura zaidi ya asilimia hamsini na

kubuniwe kiti cha waziri mkuu.

Ya tano: Madaktari wetu waangaliwe na walipwe vizuri lakini wasiruhusiwe kuweka clinics au chemists. Wawe wanalipwa

vizuri halafu wale wamesomea kazi ya pharmacy wapewe nafasi hiyo ya kuweka chemists, lakini sio madakrari.

Namba sita: Ningetaka kugusia mambo ya mashamba. Mashamba hayo ya kuridhi yashughulikiwe na chiefs na wazee wa hiyo

jamii lakini siyo kuingizwa kwa courts na kusimamiwa na mawakili kama wanavyofanya sasa. Tunaona wakati mwingine wakati

mashamba yanapeanwa, kwa sababu kuna mashamba yanasemekana yanapeanwa na serikali, unaona mtu mmoja anapewa elfu

moja, mwingine anapewa acre mia moja na kuna wale wanapewa acre tatu.

Ningetaka kusema ya kwamba kama ni mashamba yanapeanwa na serikali, ione kila mwananchi ni sawa na mwingine. Kama ni

kupeana, wapewe kiwango kimoja kama acre tano. Si zaidi ya acre tano na kama kunao ambao tayari wameshanyakua yale

mashamba, wawe na maximum ya acre ishirini na minimum ya acre tano.

Ya saba ningetaka kusema ya kwamba, kuweko na uhuru wa kuandika, yaani watu wa magazeti wasiingiliwe na hata wakati

wa utangazaji, wale wanagombea kiti cha urais wawe na nafasi sawa kwa vyombo vya habari. Wapatiwe nafasi mzuri,

waambie wananchi watakavyo, na policies zao.

Ya nane ningetaka kuguzia taarifa ya mkaguzi mkuu wa serikali; taarifa za mkaguzi mkuu wa serikali hazifuatiliwi. Anatoa taarifa

32

yake lakini hakuna kinachotendeka. Ni kama kusema ufisadi unafuatiliwa lakini wananchi hawajui utafuatiliwa mpaka wapi.

Ya tisa ningetaka kusema ya kwamba katika katiba yetu, kusiruhusiwe uhuru wa kuabudu kwa sababu hapo ndipo tunaona

kuna watu wanaoabudu sanamu na wengine wamuabuduo shetani. Hapo ningetaka katika katiba yetu kusiwe na uhuru wa

kuabudu au kuabudu shetani au sanamu kupikwe marufuku, kusiruhusiwe katika katiba.

Ya mwisho, ningependekeza ya kwa DOs, DCs na PCs waondolewe kwa sababu hakuna kazi wanafanya. Ni cheo tu

imewekwa pale ya watu. Kama mimi ninatoka pahali fulani na ninalindwa na power fulani, ninakuwa appointed. Si kwa sababu

wanaijua ile kazi, au kwa sababu kuna kazi iliyoko ya kufanywa, ni kwa sababu ile nafasi imekuwa created, watu wanawekwa

pale tu.

Nimemaliza, asante.

Com. Nunow: Asante sana Zakayo. Zubiri kidogo.

Com. Lenaola: Asante bwana Karantimi. Sijui kama nilikuelewa vizuri, ulisema kusiwe na uhuru wa kuabudu.

Mr.Karantimi: Ndiyo.

Com. Lenaola: Unajua ukisema hivyo ni kusema kwamba hakuna mtu ataabudu Kenya. Kwa hivyo makanisa, waislamu, kila

mtu aende nyumbani, hakuna kuabudu.

Zakayo: Sikuwa nikimaanisha hivyo.

Com. Lenaola: Unamaanisha nini?

Mr.Karantimi: Nilikuwa nikimaanisha ya kwamba , katika mila na desturi zetu, tunajua kuna Mungu mmoja, katika

madhehebu yetu Kenya tunajua kuna Mungu mmoja Tumwabuduo zote, tukiwa waisklamu au wakristo. Lakini nilikuwa

nikifikiria kusiwe na kuabudu zanamu (vitu za kuchongwa). Ya pili ni kuabudu shetani. Kwa sababu hata Tume ya kuchunguza

hayo mambo imetolewa, lakini wazazi hatujajua ilikuwaje. Asante.

Com. Nunow: Asante sana, njoo ujiandikishe. Reuben Kaimenyi? Lucas Mugambi?

Reuben Kaimenyi: Thank you very much. I Am Reuben Kaimenyi from Githongo.

The constitution document: The present constitution does not clearly define whether the constitution was made for the people

33

or for those in leadership. The new constitution should fully look into this.

Language: the language used in the present constitution is very complicated, full of jargon, which can only be interpreted by

those who have studied law. The new constitution should not be for lawyers, the language should be simplified so that at least

seventy-five percent for literate Kenyans can understand and interpret it. And in future, it should be interpreted in all languages

that are spoken in Kenya.

Copies of the new constitution should be made available to all book centers, school libraries and public libraries free of charge,

not for sale.

Executive: There should be two offices ----(gap)

Twenty five percent of the cast votes and twenty- five percent in every five provinces, failure to achieve the above, a run off

should done between the number one and number two within a period of two weeks. He/she should be declared the president

by a single majority after run off.

The head of government should be elected by the members of the national assembly from the members of the party or parties

forming the government. The head of government, I do propose, should be the prime minister, who will be in charge of

government revenue and will head the civil service.

The vice president should be elected directly by the voters as a running mate of the president. He should only gunner fifty-one

per cent of the cast votes. He should be responsible for the head of government business in the house and should be the

minister of internal security or foreign affairs.

Provincial administration should be abolished and replaced by members chosen from the respective province, each province,

may be a senate.

Legislature: To qualify as a candidate to contest a parliamentary seat, one should have the following above the present

provisions in the present constitution:

He should be medically Okay; should posses the latest medical certificate giving the following details: The time the test was

conducted, should be HIV negative, mental health should be examined by a government doctor, that is regularly, should declare

his full wealth, should not be an atheist (those people who do not believe in God).

There should also be a condition for an independent candidate because it comes a time that a candidate will be locked for one

political party and there is no time to jump to another party, that is to say, there should be a provision in our new constitution

34

that says there should be an independent candidate.

The National Assembly: There should be a government and an opposition side and so the independent candidate should be free

to sit and vote in any side.

Independent candidate should not be entitled to any committee position in the house because they do not represent any party.

Since there will be provision for independent candidate, there should be no provision for nominated members of parliament to

the national assembly.

There should be the lower and the upper national assembly. The lower should comprise of all elected MPs, the backbenchers,

the ministers and the assistant ministers. The upper should be comprised of the long serving MPs, who have served from for

more than four terms and who have experience in legislative duties.

There should be a maximum of thirteen members of thirteen members of the upper and every province should be represented

by one member who should be chosen or elected from three leading political parties, depending on numerical grounds or

numerical strength in the parliament but I think here they should be elected directly by the voters that is ------?

They should be elected directly by the voters along side the presidential candidate.

The local authorities: The chairman and mayor should not belong to any political party. They should be elected directly by

voters. They should posses a pass in `O’ level certificate. They should have medical certificate to certify their health on mental,

ability, they should be HIV negative, they should gunner at least fifty-one percent of the cast votes. The Vice- chairmen as vice

mayors and chairmen of committees should be elected by the members of the county council or the municipal council.

The management of the local authorities: The local authorities should be de-linked from the central government.

The city or town clerk or county clerk should be chosen on merit as per his or her qualification. He/she should posses a degree

certificate or Administration or a diploma certificate in management or in administration.

Com: Nunow: One more minute.

Kaimenyi: HIV and Prostitution: There should be a provision in the new constitution for the abolishment and stiff penalty for

prostitution. Prostitution has led to escalating of high level of HIV Positive, school dropouts and in