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SHPANCER, Talma
RG‐50.427*0003
June 1996
[One audiotape]
Abstract
Talma Shpancer (formerly Rena Deutch) came from a middle class family living comfortably in Belgrade.
Her father, Atso, was born in Budapest, Hungary and worked as a traveling merchant in Serbia. After the
bombardment of Belgrade on April 16, 1941, Rena’s family (her father Atso, her mother Matilda Levi,
and her younger sister, Elvira) fled the city in her father’s car. They went to Berchivitch, where her
father arranged to stay in the house of Shavitch, a business connection. Later, the father found a better
location, the house of the Shtokovitch family, 2 kilometers from the road. They did not have to wear
yellow badges and they moved freely about the village, although the villagers knew that the family was
Jewish. In April 1942, someone betrayed the family. The gendarmes entered the house and arrested
Rena’s parents and sister. Radmela, the 11‐year‐old daughter of the Shtokovitch family, following her
mother’s instructions, grabbed Rena and took her to another house, and hid her under a bed. Rena
lived with the Shtokovitch family until the end of the war, when she was taken by the Jewish Community
of Belgrade to a Jewish orphanage. She remained there until 1949, when the Jewish orphans were taken
to Israel. Her parents were executed in Yanitsa, along with other Jews and Serbian partisans.
Tape 1 of 1, Side A
000 Statement by Interviewer, Jasa Almuli, journalist from Belgrade.
Maiden Name: Rena Deutch, born in Belgrade, Yugoslavia (now Serbia) in 1937.
Rena was hidden by two servant peasant families until the liberation. In 1948, she emigrated to
Israel. She lives in Rehovoth on Weitzman St. She is married with three children and three
grandchildren.
015 Rena had a younger sister, Elvira. Her father’s name was Atso. He was born in Budapest,
Hungary, a traveling merchant who sold dyes in Serbia.
034 Her mother was Matilda Levi, a housewife from Belgrade. They were a middle class family and
did not live in the old Jewish quarters. Rena does not remember the (family, neighborhood?)
religious life.
067 She remembers the bombardment of Belgrade on April 6, 1941. The father, who owned a car,
drove the family, mother, Rena, and Elvira out of Belgrade.
078 He drove the family to the village of Berschevitch. The father had a business connection named
Shavitch, who was a shopkeeper. He knew the family was Jewish. He provided the whole family
with room to stay. The other villagers knew that the family was Jewish.
101 They did not wear a yellow badge.
102 Rena did not know whether the family was registered.
110 The father managed to find a better location. The Shtokovitch family agreed to let Rena’s family
stay in their house, which was 2 kilometers from the road.
http://collections.ushmm.org Contact [email protected] for further information about this collection
This is a verbatim transcript of spoken word. It is not the primary source, and it has not been checked for spelling or accuracy.
117 The names of the Shtokovitch family: Dragutin Shtokovitch and his wife, Jivka—no children;
Dragisha, Dragutin’s brother, and his wife, Melia, and their children Radmela (a girl born in
1931) and Radonia (a boy). Dragisha was in Germany, a prisoner of war for five years.
150 In the village, the family moved around freely and Rena attended school there. Her father
traveled to Belgrade sometimes. There was plenty of food.
183 In April 1942, uniformed men with rifles came. It was not clear whether they were Nazis or
“gendarmes.” It was not clear how many there were, but they filled the yard. They took Rena’s
family ‐‐ someone had betrayed them.
212 The situation was hysterical. Early in the morning, Rena’s father took her aside and gave her
instructions, which she does not remember now.
223 Her mother pleaded with Melia, Radmela’s mother, to help save her daughter Rena. Radmela
took Rena out of the house. They ran to another part of the village, to another house, and she
hid her under a bed.
230 A local villager confirmed that all the members of Rena’s family were present (which was not
true because Rena was missing). In doing so, he saved Rena’s life. His name is not known.
281 At the time of the interview, Rena visited Koka, a member of the Shavitch family (Koka is their
nickname.) Her married name is Midivoyevitch, first name Miloyka. She lives in the (?) area.
312 Koka, who was much older than Rena, told her that she used to go to Belgrade with Rena’s
father to help him buy supplies. She also described Rena’s mother as an elegant, tall women
and her father as a very nice man. Rena was happy to hear Koka talk about her parents,
because Rena does not remember them.
330 Rena visited the house of the Shtokovitch family. It is abandoned now. The house belongs now
to Nada, Radonia’s wife, who lives in Belgrade. In this abandoned house, Rena found certain
items that belonged to her family that the Shtokovitch family kept. These were embroidered
tablecloths, silverware, and materials to repair socks.
372 Interviewer’s comments: Ex‐Rena, now Talma, accompanied by her husband, Avi, and her son,
Aviv, went to visit Berchivitch, in search of the people who saved her.
400 Rena lived with the Shtokovitch family. No one talked to her about her parents. She began to
think that she never had parents. The Shtokovitch family changed her name to Rushka
Shtokovitch. She resumed going to school half a year later and moved freely about the village.
The Shtokovitch family took her to the church. Everyone knew she was Jewish. She lived like a
village child. Melia was particularly affectionate with Rena.
544 In 1945, representatives of the Jewish Community in Belgrade came to the village. They found
Rena, and asked the Shtokovitch family to let her go. Members of the Shtokovitch family
brought her to Belgrade to a Jewish orphanage.
Tape 1 of 1, Side B
000 Rena lived at the Home for Jewish Orphans in Belgrade from 1945‐1949. There were
approximately 50 children in the orphanage. As a small child, she knew that she came from the
Deutch family, but had no Jewish identity.
http://collections.ushmm.org Contact [email protected] for further information about this collection
This is a verbatim transcript of spoken word. It is not the primary source, and it has not been checked for spelling or accuracy.
040 In 1949, she learned about her parents when an aunt, sister of her mother, came from (?) to
visit her.
071 Rena’s parents and her little sister were executed in a prison called Banitsa in Belgrade on April
17, 1942. The names of all the people executed there have been catalogued in a book.
080 The prisoners were handed over to the SS who transported them to Yanitsa, a village 12
kilometers from Belgrade, where the Germans were executing Serbian patriots, partisans, and
Jews they found in Serbia. It was the place where they threw the remains of gassed men,
women, and children killed in the Semlin Jewish camp in Belgrade. 100,000 people are buried
there.
099 In 1949, the children were dispersed among Jewish families, and from there they were taken to
Israel by a boat named Radnik. Tito’s Yugoslavia was the only Eastern European country to let
Jews emigrate to Israel. There were three trips from Yugoslavia to the port of Haifa.
119 Rena was taken through the “Aliyat Hanoar” youth immigration agency to Kibbutz Ma’abarot,
between Netanya and Hadera. She stayed there until 1953, when she was drafted in the Israeli
army. After the army, she moved to Kibbutz Nahshon where she met her husband, Avi
Shpancer. They lived in the Kibbutz until 1988.
163 Talma’s husband was born in Poland in 1936. In 1939, when the Germans invaded, he escaped
with his family to Russia. His father served in the Red Army until 1945. After the war, the family
returned to Poland in Silesia. In 1950, the family emigrated legally to Israel.
223 Avi gives his impressions of Rena (Talma) and her family about the village Berschivitch, and
about the villagers. Talma wanted to forget this part of her life. But now she is happy that she
visited this place and its people. It was a very exciting and emotional experience. She wanted
her children to know her story.
261 The people in Berschivitch remembered her, especially her classmates.
283 Talma recommended to Yad Vashem that the Shtokovitch family be honored as Righteous
Gentiles.
292 Talma’s son Aviv says that for the first time in his life he learned the whole story of his mother’s
survival, and met the people who knew her as a child.
http://collections.ushmm.org Contact [email protected] for further information about this collection
This is a verbatim transcript of spoken word. It is not the primary source, and it has not been checked for spelling or accuracy.