“ UnderstandingRoots:HowToMakeYourGardenFlourish”

Robert Kourik

*FULL TRANSCRIPT*

Hosted By Marjory Wildcraft www.TheGrowNetwork.com

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“ UnderstandingRoots:HowToMakeYourGardenFlourish”

Robert Kourik Marjory: Hello,andwelcometotheHomeGrownFoodSummit.Thisis

MarjoryWildcraftandthisSummitisbroughttoyoubytheGrowNetwork,whichisthepremierecommunityofpeoplewhoaregrowingtheirownfoodandmakingtheirownmedicines.So,yes,youareamongfriends.

Ihavealwaysbeeninterestedinrootsofplantsanditturnsoutthattherearealotofmythsabouthowplantsgrowunderground.Wedon'tseethatpart.Andinfact,I'msureyou'veseenthoseclassicillustrationswherethere'satreeandthere'sthetreecanopyontop,andthendownbelowismirroredwithlikearootsystemdownbelowthatlookslikethetreecanopyontop.Thatiscompletelyamyth.

Rootsareso,so,sofascinatingandinteresting,andthemoreyouunderstandabouthowtherootsgrowthenthebetteryoucanplant,takecareofyourplants,andgethigheryields,uselesswater,allthegoodnessthatyou'relookingfor.IranacrossRobertKourik'sbook,calledRootsDemystified,afewyearsagoandIhavebeentryingtogetRobertontodoapresentationforawhile.AndwefinallygotaprettygoodwebinarthathedidinconjunctionwithPennyLewiswhoistheexecutivedirectoroftheEcologicalLandscapeAlliance.

LetmetellyoualittlebitaboutRobertthough.Hehasbeenalandscapearchitectformorethan25years.In1986,hewrotethelandmarkbook,DesigningandMaintainingYourEdibleLandscapeNaturally.Then,ofcourse,ashestartedtounderstandhowimportantthattheundergroundlifeofplantsare,hedevelopedafascinationfortheserootsystems.Sincethen,hehasauthoredseveralmorebooks,includingDripIrrigation,RootsDemystified,andthebook,UnderstandingRoots.SoRobertreallyhas...Ohmygosh,andthispresentation,theillustrationsoftheserootsareabsolutelyfascinatingforhowtheygrow.Andthenattheveryend,Pennyis

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goingtointerviewandmoderatewithsomequestions,andhewilltalkaboutexactlyhowthoseillustrationswerecomeby.Butreally,thisispainstakingworkfromresearchersfromreallythelastcentury.

Iwillsaythatthisisanintermediatetoanadvancedpresentation.Soifyou'rejustbeginningthismayormaynotbeofinteresttoyou.Forthoseofusthatarekindofintothis,wereallygeekoutonit.Anyway,RootsDemystified,takealookatthis.It'sreally,reallyfascinating,anditwillmakeyouabettergrowerunderstandinghowrootsgrow.

Penny: Hello,everyone.I'mPennyLewis,executivedirectorofTheEcologicalLandscapeAlliance,andI'llbethemoderatorforthewebinartoday.Today'spresentationisUnderstandingRoots:ExploringPlantsUnderground.Thisisoneofthefocusonsustainabilitywebinars.Thisserieswasdevelopedbyagroupofregionalorganizationsknownfortheirqualityecologicaleducation.Byworkingtogether,thewebinarseriesenablesustoexpandthereachofourindividualprogramstoabroaderaudience.Incaseyou'renotfamiliarwithourorganizations,they'reallnonprofitandlargelyvolunteergroupsintheUnitedStates.

TheregionalgroupsaretheEcologicalLandscapeAlliance,theChesapeakeConservationLandscapingCouncil,theMidwestEcologicalLandscapeAlliance,andEcoLandscapeCalifornia.Ifyouhaveaquestionforthepresenter,youmaysendittoususingthequestionwindowatanytimeduringthebroadcast,andquestionswillbeaddressedattheendofthepresentation.NowIwouldliketointroduceourpresenter,RobertKorouk.

Robertbeganhiscareerinorganiclandscapemaintenancein1974.Overthenextfourdecades,hehonedhishorticulture-relatedskillsbyworkingwithclientsthroughouttheUnitedStatesonvariedprojects,fromwatergardens,pathsandpatios,tohabitatgardens,andinnovativeplaygrounds.Roberthaswritten14booksoncreatingsustainablehomesandgardens.Hisbook,DesigningandMaintainingYourEdibleLandscapeNaturally,hasbecomeaclassicinitsfield,definingthefieldofgardeningknownasediblelandscapingand

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focusingonorganic,naturalsustainable,andintegratedsystems.Todayhe'llsharehisinsightsintoroots.Welcome,Robert.

Robert: Hi,Penny.ShouldIstart?Herewego.ThetitleofthebookisUnderstandingRoots:DiscoverHowtoMakeYourGardenFlourish.Now,mostpeoplewhoarelisteningtomehaveprobablyplantedatree,ashruboravegetable,sotheymaybewondering,well,whatamIgoingtotalkabout?Well,I'mgoingtalkaboutsomeoftheconceptsofrootgrowththatyoumaynothaveheardof.Ifwecanlearnmoreaboutroots,wecangetbetterplants,andwecanhelpourgardenflourish.So,theimportantwordinthetitle,really,isthewordflourish.

Alotofpeoplearenotawareofhowbigarootsystemcanbe.Thisisasinglekidneybean,therootsystemofthetopsixincheslookingdownfromabove.It'sbasicallyoverfourfeet,closetofourfeetinalldirections,onesingleplant.So,therootsystemsexplorefarmoresoilthanalotofpeoplegivethemcreditfor.Itallbeginswiththelitter,thelitterintheforest,andthetop,theslightlydecomposedmaterialbeneaththeduff,andthenthesoil.What'ssoimportantaboutthesoiloftheforestisthatit'sextremelyvitaltohavethetoptwotofourinchesinverygoodformbecausetheplantspreferthatamountofsoil.

Inotherwords,thepotontheleftissoilgatheredfromtheforestintheone-totwo-inchzone.Thepotinthemiddleissoilonlyfromthetwo-tofour-inchzone,andtheoneontherightisthesubsoil.So,youcanseethateveninthetoptwoinchesisaradicallydifferentamountofgrowthcomparedtothetwo-tofour-inchzone.We'llbeseeinghowimportanttheaerobiclayersareaswegothroughthepresentation,butkeepthisinmindthatthetoptwoinchesisabout50%moregrowththangatheringsoiljustfromthetwo-tofour-inchzone.

Let'slookatsomeofthemythsofrootsandhowwecanunderstandthosemyths,correctthem,andgetbetterplants.Firstguidelineisthatrootsgrowwaybeyondthecanopyorthedripline.Manypeoplethinkthattherootsgrowprimarilyouttothedripline,andthat'sthe

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bestplacetoputwater,compost,mulch,etcetera.Inreality,weseeinthischartthattherootscanbehalfagainwiderthanthefoliageinaheavysoil,threetimeswiderthanthefoliageinaloamysoil.Believeitornot,inasoilthatforcestherootsnearthesurface,averyheavyclaywheretherootsmaynotbeabletogoverydeepatall,therootsystemcanbefivetimeswiderorgreaterthanthecanopy.Thisisbecauseit'stryingtogetenoughcubicvolumeofsoiltoexplore.Itcan'tgodeepwhenit'saheavyclay,soithastogofarandwidetogatherthosenutrients.

Here'sthefascinatingthingofthe...Peopletrytoprotecttreesinourareaduringconstructionwiththeseorangefences.Theyputthefencedownouttoaboutthedripline,thinking,well,they'reprotectingthetree.Well,theyareprotectingthetrunkfromdamage,butinreality,theareabeyondthefenceiswherethere'smorefeedingrootsthantheareainsidethefence.So,itbecomeskindofanirony,thatintenttoprotectthetree.They'reforcingtheheavyequipmenttoworkrightintheareawherewefindthemostfeedingroots.

HereweseeonthisdrawingdonebyaRussianthattheappletreehasadriplineintheredcircle,andtherootsextendfarbeyondthatcircle.Eachsquareisonemeter.Youcanseethatgoingtothelowerleft-handcornerisclosetotwometersfurtheroutfromthefoliage,andsothattheappletreeisgatheringitsnutrientsfromlotsofdifferentareas.Butalso,it'snotcompletelysymmetricalbecauseofsoiltype.Soiltypehasagreatbiginfluenceonhowtherootsgrow,sowehavetokeepthatinmindaswegothroughthepresentation.

Here'sanexample.Therootsuphereinthetoparegoingbeyondthatdottedline.That'sthecanopy.Thisisasandysoil,butinthebottom,it'saloamysoil,andsothat...Youseethattherootsystemintheloamysoilinthisparticularsituation,notverymanyrootsaregrowingoutbeyondthefoliage.Butinthesandysoil,wegetalotofgrowthbeyondthefoliage.PartofthereasonisthisisadwarfingrootstockcalledM.4usedwithappletrees.Itkeepstherootsystemalittlebitmoreconstrainedcomparedtootherrootstocks.So,the

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rootstockshaveabiginfluenceonhowfruittreesgrowandwheretherootsgrowbeyondthefoliage.

HereweseeanotherdrawingfromRussia,andthefruittrees,again,haveadriplineinred.Weseethateachsquareisameter.Therootsgrowextremelyfarawayfromthecanopyonthisapple,buttheyavoidtheroadandthecompactionoftheroad.So,wecanseethatthetreesarerespondingtothepoorqualityofcompactedsoil.

Now,alotofpeoplethinkthatalltreeshaveataproot.Well,here'sanexampleofanoaktreethatdoeshaveataproot.Inthiscase,amajorityoftherootsareonthesurface,butthetaprootgoesdownclosetoalittleovereightfeet.Thisontheleftisthemeasuringbar.Thisincentimeters,andabout31centimeterstoafoot.Ifwegouphereat40centimeters,weseethatahugeproportionoftherootsareabove40-centimetermarksothatwefindthateventhoughthere'sadeeptaproot,there'salargenumberofrootsturningoutsidewaysinthetopfootofthesoil.Youcanseethecloseryougettothesurface,themorerootsyouhave.

Anotherimportantpartofthisillustrationisthatlookhowsmallthetreeisrelativetotheroots.Well,whattheplantlookslikeabovegroundisnoindicationwhatsoeverofwhat'sgoingonbelowground.So,wewillhavetreesthatareverylarge,buttheirrootsystemwilloftentimesbemuchwiderthanthefoliage.

Thereareabout2%ofallthetreeshavetaproots.Usuallyit'soaks,pines,andnuttreesarethebiggestcategoryoftreeswithtaproots.Here'sanotherofthesameoakinadifferentsoil.Therootsystemisnotnearlyasdeep.Thetaprootsaremoredivided.Butagain,theshallowrootsatthetopspreadquitewideandhavealargemajorityoftherootsystemabovethetaproot.Youcanseeinadrawingthatlittleacornandhowitstarts...Itdevelopedataprootrightoff,beginningtogetestablished.Asitgetsestablished,thelateralsthatgotothesidedevelop,andyoucanhavethenthekindofrootsystemthatlikestobeinanaerobicenvironment.

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Thereasontheserootsaregrowingsidewaysinpartisduetothefactthattheywanttousetheaerobicsoilsbecausethat'swhereyougetthemostrapidreleaseofnutrients.Sothatallthecrittersthatliketoreleasenutrients,likeanaerobicenvironment,andthat'sinthesurfaceofthesoil,sotherootsareexploringthesoilvolumewherethosethingsliketolive.

Now,here'satreethat'snativetomyarea,theDouglasfir.Again,youcanseethatithasafairlydeeprootsystemdowntoabouteightor10feet.It'sonaslope,andithasmorerootsdownhillthanithasuphill.Now,thisisnotaguideline.Itdoesvaryfromplanttoplant.InalltherootdrawingsIhave,youcannotcomeupwithageneralizationastowhetherornotthetreespredominantlygrowdownhillcomparedtouphillslope.Butkeepthatinmindanywaythatrootstendtobewiderthanyoumightexpectonaslopeonlevelground.

Nowhere'sapinetree.It'saveryshorttree,buttherootsystemgoesdown150centimeters,sothat'saboutfivefeet.Weseethattheyhavewhat'scalledsinkerroots.Sinkerrootsarenotfoundonalotoftreesexceptforfruittrees,buthere'sapinetreewherethesinkerrootsgodown.Theygatherwaterandnutrients,buttheyalsoanchorthetreetoprovidealotofstabilityforthetreewhenwindhitsit.

Here'saplumtreeexcavatedbyaresearcherinHungary.Youcanseethetop40inchesofthesoilisahugepercentageoftherootsystem.Thiszoneherethatdoesn'thaverootsisbecauseitwastakencareofwithcleancultivation.Theyplowthefieldtokeeptheweedsdown.Butbecausetheyplowed,andtheplowwentdowntwo,four,six,eightinchesdeep,itdestroyedthehairrootsandtheyoungrootsthatliketobeinthataerobiczone.So,themorethatweavoidcompactionandtillage,thehappiertherootswillbebecausetheycangrowrightuptotheverysurfaceandexploretheaerobiczoneandgathernutrientsfromthecrittersthatliketomakethatavailable.

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Heretheyare.Here'ssomeexamples.Algae,fungi,actinomycetes,andbacteria.Now,thealgaeontheright-handsideisablue-greenalgae,whichisverynutritiousfortheplants.Inthetopthreeinches,there's25unitsofthisalgae.Yougodowntoeightinches,there'sonlyone-fifththeamountofcritters,fivecomparedto25.Yougodownto26inches,andthenthere'salmostnothing.Youcanseeinallthesefour,whatIcallcritters,thatthedropfromthefirstthreeinchestoeightinchesisaphenomenalreductioninthenumberofbeneficialbacteria,fungi,algae,actinomycetes.Inthecaseofactinomycetes,whicharenitrogen-fixingcrittersthatarekindoflikehalfbacteriaandhalfalgae...Whenyoumakethatjumpfromthreeinchestoeightinches,yougodownbyafactorof10.

Samethinghappenswithwater.Thisisachartofthewaterabsorptionofanumberofcrops.WhatwefindinalmostallthesedrawingsexcepttheonesIshowedyouofDougfirs,alotofresearchinAmericahasbeendownwithcrops,notornamentals,inordertohelpthefarmergetthebestgrowthpossible.Well,hereweseethetopfootofthesoiliscloseto50%onsomeplants.Ifyougodowntwofeetdeep,it'sover50%onalmostallplants,theamountofwaterit'sabsorbed.So,thetoponetotwofeetisabsolutelycritical.Alotofpeoplethink,well,atree'sgoingtohavereallydeeproots.Andanalmonddoes,butitstillgets50%ofitsgrowthinthetopthreefeet,eventhoughitsrootsgodownto12feetordeeper.Sothatyoumaynotbegrowingsugarbeets,buttakingcareofthattopfootis34%ofallthewaterandnutrientsthataregoingtobeabsorbedbythetree.

Now,thisiswhatwehavetoprevent.Mulching,whatIcallthedoughnutofdeath.ThisistakeninmyhometowninSt.Louis,MO.ItseemstobeacontestinSt.Louisatleast.Idon'tknowifit'shappeninginyourarea,butIhopenot.ButinSt.Louis,there'sthiscontesttoseewhocouldputthemulchthedeepestandthehighestandthewidest,andthey'reburyingthecrownoftherootsystem.Whatalotofusthinkisovertime,thesetreesaregoingtodiemuchearlierthantheyneedtobecauseofthelackofairatthecrownoftherootsystemwhereitmeetsthetrunkandthepossibilitythatrain

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keptincontactwiththattrunkcombinedwithmoistureandheatinthesummercanspeeduptherotoftherootsystemorthetrunk.

So,wewanttotrytotrainpeoplenottodothis.Now,thisisactuallyaphotographtakeninfrontoftheartmuseuminthecityofSt.Louis,andeventhecityworkersaredoingtheseincrediblevolcanoesofmulch,whicharesomethingwe'vegottoworkagainsteverychanceweget.

Now,hereweseeabetterwayofapproachingmulch,andthatistoprovidemulchatleasttothedripline,andthefurtherawayfromthedriplineisevenbetter.Sothatmanypeopleputtheirmulchinthefirsttwo,three,fourfeetmaybefromthetrunk,thinkingthat'swherethefeedingrootsare.Asthetreegetsolder,therootsnearthetrunkactuallydeveloplikeabarksurface.Whenyouhavebark,youdonothaveroothairs.Bymulchingnearthefirstfootorsoiscompletelyuselessasthetreegetsolderbecausetherearenotalotoffeedingrootsthere.

Well,what'sironicaboutthisphotoisthatthiswastakenattheWorldHeadquartersofMonsanto.It'sactuallyoneofthebest-lookinglandscapesI'veseenandoneofthefewexamplesIcanfindwherethemulchisexpandedbeyondthetrunkafairlydecentdistance.ButIgotthesephotosbeforetheycouldchasemeoffthesite.

Now,Ialwaysplanthigh.Iplantonamound,evenifit'snotclay,forabunchofreasons.One,Idowanttohavedrainageinclaysoils,sokeepingthecrownabovetheleveloftheexistingsoilhelpsthewaterdrainawayandpreventrootrotorPhytophthora.ButoneoftheotherreasonsIplanthighisIwanttogettherootstogrowawayfromtheplantingarea.Idothatbyplantinghighsotherootsgrowbeyondthemoundassoonaspossible.ImulchthemoundafterI'veplanted.I'vewateredintheplant,andIdon'thavetowateritforquiteawhileuntiltherootsgrowbeyondtheplantingarea.

Now,thisillustrationispoorlydoneinthesensethatthere'sadarkerzoneinthemiddle,andthenitlookslikewhitebeyondthat.That's

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nottoindicatethatthesoilisdifferentthere.Whenyouplanttrees,youshouldnotuseanyamendments.Thereasonforthatiswewanttogettherootsusedtothesoilthey'regoingtohavetogrownin.Sincethetreeshaverootsthatgrowhalfagaintothree,tofivetimeswiderthanthefoliage,they'regoingtohavetogetusedtosoilthatwecan'tpossiblydigaholebigenoughfor.

So,Itendtoavoidanycompostwhatsoeverbecauseitkeepstherootsboundupintotheplantingareawhilethey'refeedingonallthehighlynutritiousstuff.Whentheyrunoutandtrytogrowbeyondit,they'relesslikelytobewellestablished.AndIdon'tdoaplantingholebecauseifyoumixitupwithtoomuchcompost,therootsgrowthroughtheplantingmixandhitthebrickwall,sotospeak,oftheexistingsoil.

Whenyou'regettingtherootstobeestablishedinthesoilthatthey'regoingtoconstantlygrowinfortherestoftheirlife,youdohavetogettherightrootstockfortherightsoil.Inotherwords,inaclaysoil,youcannotplantpeachesandexpecttogetgoodgrowthorkeepthetreeevenalive.So,plumsandapplesarebetterforaheavy,claysoil,andpeaches.Sothatifyouhaveheavysoil,andyouwantpeaches,youbasicallyhavetobuildupaveryhighmoundoraboxandtreatitmorelikeacontainerplant.

Hereweseeatreethat'splantedonamound.ThisisattheMissouriBotanicGardeninSt.Louis,andyou'llnoticethere'saninterestingthing.There'snorootflare.Normally,whenyouhaveatree...Youcanevenkindofseeitallthewaybackhere.There'sawidersectionwherethetrunksplaysoutfromnearthesurfaceofthesoil.I'mwonderingiftheyactuallymesseduphereandputmulchovertherootflare,whichiswhattheyshouldnothavedone.Butthetreehereisplantedonamound,whichencouragesawiderrootsystem.

Inthisparticularplantingsituation,myhouseinOccidental,thisisacompostingpileofwoodchipsfromthetreeservice,amixtureofleavesandwoodchips,andithasthenfourtosixinchesofsoiladdedontop.Then,eventhoughthere'safourtosix-inchlayerofsoilontopofathree-foot-highmoundofchips,Istillplantwiththemina

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smallmound,asyoucanseeoverherewiththeshovel.So,eventhoughthere'sahigh-drainagearea,IstillalwaysimprovethedrainagebyplantingashighasIcan.

You'llseeinthisdrawing,orImeaninthisphotograph,lavendersandrosemarys,andthey'rejustanumberoftheplantsIgrowthiswayinOccidental.BecauseIplantinthefallonly,andtherootsgrowthroughouttheentirewinterinourmoderateCaliforniaclimate,theplantsareverywellestablishedcomespring.Ihaveneverwateredtheseplantingsin30yearsbecauseIestablishedarootsysteminaproperway,andIusedanawfullotofmulch.

Thisisthetypeofmulchweuseinourarea.It'scalledarbormulch.It'simportanttohavemulch,ofcourse,inmostanylandscapedesign.ButIfeelthatifyou'rebuyingmulch,goingabovefourinchesdeepisprobablyawasteofmoney.Inotherwords,onceyougetabovefourinchesinmulch,thecostforadditionalmulchhasadiminishingreturnonhowmuchmoistureit'sgoingtoconserve.So,Isayfourinchesmax,atleasttwoinches.ButinNewEngland,whereyouguysare,youhaveafascinatingsituationwherealotofthetreesactuallyliketogrowrootsmoreintheduffinthehumusthanthesoilitself.

YoucanseefromthesetreesinNorthFinlandthattheyoungsprucetreehas64%ofitsrootsintheduff,noteveninthesoil.So,maintainingathick,naturalleaflitterlikeyouwouldfindintheforest...Extremelyimportantinhowyoucanmaintainhealthytrees.

Now,we'lllookatalittlebitofvegetables.Thisiscorn,lookingdownfromthetop.Eachsquareisone-footsquare.TheseexcavationsweredonebyDr.[Weaver00:22:37]backinthe'30sinNebraska.Hespentcountlesshoursdigginguprootssystemsandmappingthemlikeyouwouldinanarcheologicaldig.Hereweseethattherootsystemisone,two,three,four,fivesquareswide,soit'swelloverfivefeetinalldirectionsforonesinglecornplant.

Herewelookatanonion.Notaprootontheonion,andtherootsgrowfromthebottomoftheonion.Theygosidewaysanddown,but

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theydon'tgobackuptothesurface.So,it'sanicewaytorealizethatwedon'thavetoworrysomuchaboutifwe'regoingtocultivatethesoilneartheonionstokeepweedsdown.Ifyougodownjustaninchortwoatthemost,youwon'thitanyroots.Butifyougodeeper,usinglikearototillertocontrolweeds,yougotabigproblem.You'llhitalotofroots.

Lettucedoeshaveataproot,butithasamajorityofitsrootsotherthanthetaproot.Hereweseerootsgoingdownthreefeetanddeeper.Buttakealookatthetopfoot.Thetopfoothasaenormouspercentageoftherootsofthelettuce.Thesecondfoothasmoreoftheroots,Imeansomemoreoftheroots.Ifyouweretomakearaisedbedoutofwood,let'ssay,twofeethigh,youwouldprobablyget,inthiscase,80,90,95%oftherootscontainedwithinthatraisedbed.Well,I'mthinkingaboutCalifornia.Wehavegophers,sowedoraisedbedsinordertoputwireonthebottomoftheboxsothegopherscan'tcomeupandchewintotheroots.

Whenwehaveraisedbedsinmyareait'sprimarilytooffsetthedamageofgophers.Iusedtodo2'by12'stokeepthecostdown,andnowIdotwo2'by12'ssothattheboxisalmost24incheshigh.Thatkeepsahugepercentageoftherootsystemawayfromthegophers,anditkeepstherootshappy,anditkeepsmybackhappiersinceIdon'thavetobendoverasmuch.

Now,carrots,aswewouldexpect,haveataproot,thisonegoingdownpastsevenfeet.Weagainseethere'safairnumberorrootsgoingdownasmuchasfourandfivefeetdeep.Again,thetopfoothasafairlylargepercentageoftherootsofthecarrot.Butwhenyoupullacarrotout,youseeafewlittlewhitescragglyroots.Youthink,"Oh,there'snotmuchleft."Well,you'veleftthisenormousrootsysteminthesoil,whichasitdecomposes,issortoflikealittleundergroundcompostsystem.Sothatgrowingrootscanimprovethesoil,especiallyifyouhaveamassiverootsystemlikeyougetfromacarrot.

Hereweseeatomato,andeachsquareisonefoot.So,wegotone,two,three,four,five,six,seven,eightfeetwideanduptothreefeet

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deep.Again,thetomatoes,muchlikelettuceandothervegetables,thetopfootisextremelyimportant.

Herewesee,again,thatthetopabovegroundhasnothingtodoasfarasindicatingwhat'sgoingonbelowground.Thetreeontherightisasourcherrytree,ablackrootsystem.Itgoesdowntoabouteightfeetinthisparticularexample,whereashorseradisheshavebeendugupwithrootsdownto14to16feetdeep.Thehorseradish,whichhasfoliagemaybeuptotwotofourfeethighabovethegroundhasamassivelydeeprootsystemcomparedtoacherrytree,whichmighthavefoliageupto10,12,15,20feet.Weseeagainthatthelimabeanandthecarrotcangetdowntofourfeetnoproblem.

Now,Idon'tknowhowmanyofyouusedripirrigation,butI'veincludedthisillustrationofdripirrigationbasicallybecauseIwantyoutounderstandthatputtingtheemittersorthewateratthedriplineandbeyondismoreimportantthatputtingitnearthetrunk.AsImentionedbefore,asthetrunkages,thissectionofthetrunkbecomesmorebark-like.Andthemorethefeedingrootsareouthere,theyoung,tendergrowth,sotheroothairsareoutonthesmall,littlerootlets.

WhenIplantabare-roottreelikethis,IputtheemittersdayoneatthedriplinebecauseIwanttoencouragetheserootstogrowbeyondtheplantingarea.YoucanseeherethatIliketousewhat'scalledinlineemittertubing.Ithasemittersbuiltinsidethetubingevery12inchesinthiscase.Itlookslikethere'salotofdrysoil,liketherootsaren'tgoingtogetanywateroverhere.Butlookingatitfromunderground,whenyouhaveitevery12inchesinaloamysoil,downtwo,four,sixinchesdeep,thoselittlebulgesgettogetherandmakeonecontinuousmoistzone.

Iliketouseparallellinesofthisinlineemittertubingthroughoutthelandscape,likeweseeinthebottomillustrationhere.Thedottedlineisthefoliage,andthesewereestablishedtreesthatIaddeddriplinestoavoidingthetrunksandprovidinglotsofpointsofirrigationthatunderneaththegroundhaveacontinuousmoisturezonesothatyougetabsolutelythebestgrowthpossible.There'sbeenalotofstudies

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invegetables'rootsystemsrelativetodrip.Theyfindoverandoveragainthatusingdripirrigationmightreduceyourwateruseby30to50to60%,butyieldsgoup.

OnewomaninIndiawasgrowingchilies.Shehadawatersavingsofabout38%,butherchiliyieldwentup48%.Ihavealittlee-bookonmywebsitethattalksaboutwhyisitandhowisitthatdripirrigationcanactuallyimprovetheyieldsofaplantandimprovethegrowthofaplant?So,wegetbacktotheendofthesession.I'mreadytotakequestions,soPenny,fireawaywithquestionspeoplemighthave.

Penny: Okay.Excellent.Thefirstquestionisaboutyourillustrations.Youhaveamazingillustrations,andyoumentionthatsomeofthemthatweredevelopedinthe'30sweredoneinanarcheologicaldigmanner.Thisquestionishowweretheotherrootstructuresstudied,suchasthelargetrees,todevelopthesedrawings?

Robert: Goodquestion.Well,theyareactuallydonethesameway.Theyuse...It'scalledaskeletonmethod,whereyoudigatrench,andyoufollowouttherootsystemaswideasitgoes.Youdigthetrenchesdeepastherootsystemgoes,andyoumapit.Youdrawit.ThesewerepeopleinGermanyandAustriathathadbeen,overthelast30years,exploringtherootssystembydiggingthesoilupandmappingit,justliketheguydid,Dr.WeaverdidinNebraska.TheyoftentimesdoaroutemapinGermany,lookingdownfromthetopoftheplant.Theyfollowtherootsystemout,andtheydigdownfourtosixinchestomapoutthewidthoftherootsystem.

IhadonephotographIfoundinabookwhichshowsfive,six,peopleontheirkneesexcavatingthesoilfromtheupperzoneoftherootsystemofatree,andthere'soneguyinthebackgroundjuststandingtherenotdoinganything.Ifiguredthat'stheprofessor,andthepeopleactuallydoingtheworkareallthestudentsandgradstudentsthathavetodothedigging.

Penny: Okay.Thenextquestionisaboutyourplantingtechnique.Youmentionedthatyoudon'tdigaplantinghole,socanyouelaborateontheprocessthatyouuseforplantingatree?

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Robert: Okay.WhatItendtodoisIdon'thavetoputalltherootsabovetheexistinggrade,butIputasmanyoftherootsasisconvenient.Imakeamoundsomewhereintheneighborhoodofsixto12to18incheshigh,dependingonthesoiltype.Then,Iheaveitopenwithaspadingforktoinsertthebare-roottreeorthecontainer.Now,iftherootsystemisdeeperthanthemoundishigh,Istartfirstbyforkingthesoilwiththespadingforktoheaveitandcrackitbutnotinvertitbecausewesawthatthesoillifeprefersthattoponetothreetofourinchesmoresothanevenjusteightinchesdown.

Ifyoutakeashovel,andyoudigahole,andyoujustarbitrarilyheavethesoiloverandinvertit,thebacteriathatliketheaerobicenvironmenttendtodieorgodormant.Ittakesawhileforthemtorepopulateintheaerobiczonewheretheyliketobe.Samethinghappenswiththeanaerobicbacteria.They'redowndeeperinthesoils.Youturnthemupsidedown,andtheystarttooxidizeanddiefromtoomuchoxygen.So,basicallyIstartwiththesoil.Iskimtherootsoffofanyweedsorsod.IforktheareathatI'mgoingtoplantinwithaspadingfork,heavingitbackandforth,notinvertingit.Igatherenoughsoilfromtheareatomakeamound,andthenIpullthemoundopenenoughtoinsertthecontainerplantorthebare-rootplant.

Then,Imulchthemoundveryheavily.ButIkeepthemulchawayfromthetrunkbecause,one,wedon'twanttogetrootrotfromthemoistureofthemulchkeepingitatthecrownoftherootsystem,andtwo,bykeepingthecrownoftherootsystemdrywithnoirrigationwhatsoever,itencouragesandstimulatestherootstogrowoutfromtheplantingareaandnotjusthoveraroundandcirclearoundinthesameplace.Ithinkthatcoversit.IthinkIcovereditall.

Penny: Okay.Excellent.Thankyou.Thenextquestionisaboutthemulchitself.Youmentionedthatyouusearbormulch.Thequestionisisthatthesameasramialwoodmulch?

Robert: Well,see,that's...BecauseIliveinCalifornia,Idon'tknowwhatthatnamemeans,andyoudon'tknowwhatarbormulchmeans.Arbormulchisatradenameforacommercialproductinmyareathat's

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basicallychippedupfromthreeservices,soithasbothleafandchipsinit.It'schippedinawaythatcreatesalldifferentsizesofmaterial,fromdusttopiecesuptoaquarterinch,afewlittlepiecesmaybehalfaninch.Butthenicethingabouthavingthatvarietyoflotsofdifferentsizes,allthewaydowntoalmostdust,isthatitdecomposesquicker.Thisparticularmulchwilldecomposeandbecomelikeasoilinthreetofiveyears,whereasifyoujustusebigchunkywoodchips,theycanlasttherefordecadesalmostbeforetheyactuallyimprovethesoilfromthetopdown.

Penny: Okay,soitdoessoundlikethatisverysimilar.Ramialwoodmulchisthecombination,anditincludesespeciallythegrowingbud,soallofthesmallbranches,Ithink,uptoaninchandahalforsoindiameter.So,itapparentlyisthesameproduct.Thenextquestionisistheresomethingthatcanbedonewithsiteprepormaintenancetoencouragethesinkerrootsthatyoudiscussedforstabilityinwindyareas?

Robert: Well,basicallyyoujusthavetonotdisturbthesoilandlettherootsadjusttowhat'sthere.Inotherwords,youdon'tstimulatemoresinkerrootsbydoingsomething.Thetreeproducesthesameamountofsinkerrootsunlessyoutotallyabusethesituation,butit'sdependentuponthesoildepth.OneoftheproblemswithmostoftherootdrawingsIshowedyouistheywereinaverygoodsoil,soyou'vegotrootsdowntofourfeetdeep,likelettuce.Butatmyhouse,theclayisonly18inchesdown,sotherootsarehittingthatclaylayerandgoingsideways.So,eventhoughmyappletreewouldliketohavesinkerrootstostabilizeit,they'rereallynotgoingdownmorethanthe18inchesofgoodsoilbeforeIhittheclay.Veryfewrootsgetintothatclay,sothesinkerrootsarebasicallydependentuponthedepthofthesoil,andyouhavetohaveaverywiderootsystemthentocompensateforthelackofsinkerroots.

ImightmentionthatwhatIdidwithoneplantinginanareathatgetswindseverywinterupto90milesanhour.Iplantedverysmalltrees,lessthanafoothigh.Iplantedthemamongstothershrubberysothatthetreesastheygrewwouldgetbufferedaroundbythewindandblowbackandforthbutnotfallover.Whenyouallowthetreesto

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bendasopposedtostakingthem,theygetamuchstrongertrunk,abiggerdiameter,andsturdier.So,Ikeptthewaterawayfromtheplantingarea,encouragingmuchwiderrootsystemforstability.AndbecauseIplantedthetreesasveryyoungtreesfouryearslater,theywere10feettall,andtheyweretheonlytreesinthesuburbof300housesthathadneverbeenstaked.Itwasacombinationofplantingsmallandwateringfaraway.

Penny: Interesting.Thenextquestioniswhatisyourviewabouttheroleofcomposttea?

Robert: Well,Ineedtoseemorestudies.There'sawomanupinWashingtonState,LindaChalker-Scott,andsheisabsolutelyadamanteverythinghastobesubstantiatedbypeer-reviewedresearch.Ihaven'tfoundanypeer-reviewedresearchofcomposttea.Myfeelingisthat,especiallywhereyouhavesummerrains,addingthecomposttothesurfaceandlettingtherainsseepintoitisasgoodorbetterthangoingthroughalltheeffortofmakingcomposttea.Idon'tthinkitcanhurt,that'sforsure.Idon'tthinkit'sworthpayingfor.Itendtothinkthatcompostbyitselfcanhaveagreatbiginfluence.Itdoesn'thavetobeconvertedtotea,butIgetinbigtroublesometimeswhenIsaythat.

Penny: Okay.Thenextquestionisgivenhowfarrootsextendpastthedripline,whatrecommendationswouldyougiveforprotectingtreesduringconstruction?

Robert: Well,seethat'stheproblem.Mostrootsystemsareextremelywide,soinasuburbanarea...Inourarea,newsubdivisions,thehouselotislike50,60feetwideand100feetdeep.Well,ifyou'regoingtotrytoestablishanoaktree,it'srootsystemswouldpreferthatentirearea.Ifthere'sanexistingoaktree,therootsystemisgoingtobeallthewayintoaneighbor'sproperty.So,itbecomesimpracticaltotrytoprotectalltherootsbeyondthedripline.Thatwouldbetheideal,toprotecttherootsbeyondthedriplineasopposedtobeingfixatedonwhat'sgrowingwithinthecanopyarea.So,itbecomesatrade-off.Alotoftimes,youjusthavetoputupwiththedamagethatthemachinery'sgoingtomakeandhowit'sgoingtodestroycrittersand

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damagemycorrhizalfungi.Then,trytorehabitafterwardsbyaverythickmulch,nosoildisturbance,andletthesoilredevelop,sotospeak,fromthetopdown.

Penny: Okay.Whatareyourthoughtsonthedoughnutsthatfolksoftenusetokeeptreeswateredafterinitialinstallation?

Robert: Well,ifthedoughnutofmulchisnottouchingthetrunk,that'sokay.ButIthinkthemulchneedstogofurtherout,evenwhenit'splantedearlyon,toprotecttheroots.Becausetherootsaregoingtogoprettyfast.Inotherwords,ifyouplantatreeinaplantingmound,andit'sbareroot...Inourarea,itrainsinthewinteranddriesupinthesummer,butwedon'thavetowatertillMayorJuneifit'sbeenwellmulched.So,that'swhyIputthedripsystembeyondtheedgeofthemoundbecausetherootsaregoingtoeasilygetthereinthefirstonetotwomonths'worthofgrowth.Butinyourarea,Iwouldsaythedoughnutshouldbeaswideaspossible.Eventhoughthetreemayseemyoung,therootsaregoingtowanttogrowprettyfar.Didthatanswerthequestion,doyouthink?

Penny: Well,Ijustgotafollow-upquestion.Thisviewerisactuallyaskingabouttheproductsthatareusedthattheyfillwithwater.Doyou-

Robert: Oh,thosegreen...Inourarea,they'regreen.They'rebags,andtheytiethemtothetrunkofthenewtree.It'ssortoflikeaslowdripsystem.Isthatwhatyou'retalkingaboutyouthink?

Penny: Yes.

Robert: Yeah,okay.Well,thoseare...Oh,it'snotwhatIwoulddo.Butgiventheurbansettingandthelackofmoneyfordripirrigationorthelackofpeopletodrivearoundandwaterbyhand,it'sagoodwaytogetatreegoing,butitshouldbetakenawayassoonasthetreegetsestablishedtoletthetreestarttoexploreasmuchsoilvolumeasitneedsto.Inmybook,Ihaveachartthatshowsyouhowmuchsoilvolumeyouneedtokeeparootsystemhappybasedonthetrunkdiameter.Ithinkinthatchart,ifthetrunkdiameter's16inches,basedonthechart,youneedover1,000cubicfeetofsoiltokeeptherootsystemforthattreehappy.So,thethoughtoftryingtomaintain

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thetreewiththoselittlegreenbagsisludicrous,butthey'reagoodwaytogetitstartedinthefirstfewmonths.Ofcourse,youguys,thesummerrainscouldpickuptheslackquitequickly.

Penny: Okay.Thenextisalsoaquestionaboutirrigation.Werethetreesthatyoushoweddeeplywateredbeyondthedepthoftheroots,ordidthedepthoftheirrigationhaveaninfluenceonhowdeeptherootswent?

Robert: Okay.ThetreesthatweredoneinGermany,inAustria,weredoneinanativeforest.So,theywerejustgrowingbasedonwhattheclimategavethem.AsfarasIknow,theygetsummerrain,sotheyweregettingvaryingamountsofsummerrains.Now,Dr.Weaverirrigatedhisplantswiththevegetablesbecauseheneededtokeepthemaliveinafairlydrysummer.InNebraska,itdoesn'tgetawholelotofrain.Buthe'snotverydetailed.Infact,hedoesn'tevensayhowheirrigatedthem.Buthetalksaboutthedepthoftherootssystembasedontheamountofrainfall.

Ihaveonedrawinginmybookthatshowsthat,Ithinkitwasaround12inchesofrain.Thewheatrootsweredownsomewhereintheneighborhoodofsixto12inchesdeep.Whentheraintripledto36inches,therootsweredownpastthe24-inchzone.So,thedeeperyouwater,themoreyoucanestablishdeeperroots.Contrarytowhatpeoplethink,ifyoudon'twater,mostoftheplantsarenotgoingtotrytofinddeeperwaterbecausetheywouldprobablyhavetofigureouthowtogothroughdrysoiltogettothedeeperwater.So,Ithinkthatyouwaterdeep,sotospeak,togetthebestrootsystem,butdeepisbasicallythetopfootortwo.Idon'tthinkyoureallyhavetoworrymuchaboutbeyondthatbecauseinallclimates,therootscanfindenoughmoisturethatexistsinthatlowerzoneasit'sbeenprovidedbynature.

Like,inourclimate,eventhoughwedon'tgetanyrainthewholesummer,stillyougodowneightfeet,there'safairamountofmoisturerelativetowhatarootneeds.Inyourarea,yougetsummerrains.Yougotadequatemoisturemostofthetimeallthewayuptothesurface,Iwouldthink.

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Penny: Well,inmostsummers.Notthissummer.

Robert: Oh,okay.

Penny: Oursummerwasmorelikeyoursummerthisyear.

Robert: Oh,that'stoobad.Well,youhavetobuymydripirrigationbookthen[inaudible00:46:06][crosstalk00:46:09]

Penny: Thisisafollow-ontothatquestion.Wasthesoilprofileevaluatedasalimitingfactorforplantdepth?

Robert: Yes.Iforgottomentionthat.ThereweretwoEnglishoakdrawingsatthebeginning,andlawnwasdown,thetaprootwasdownpasteightfeet.Butthenextone,therewereawholelotmorewideroots,andthetaprootswereonlydownfourorfivefeet.InthebookbytheGermans,theygotogreatlengthsdeservingthesoilhorizons,andithasatremendousimpactonwheretherootsgrow.So,likewewouldexpect,aclayhardpanwouldforcemorerootssidewayssotheycanfindtheamountofcubicvolumeofsoiltheyneedtobehappy.

Penny: Okay.Doyouthinkspendingmoneyonmycorrhizaefungussoildrenchonrootballsisahelpfultechnique?

Robert: Oh,great.I'mgladtheyaskedthat.Ihaveawholechapteronmycorrhizaeassociationinmybook.Thebasicsummaryofthatwholechapteristoexplainwhyitisyou'rewastingyourmoneybuyingthemycorrhizalinoculants.Someofthemareprettyexpensive.Othersarecheap,butit'snotworththemoney.Basically,anysoilinanormalgardensettinghasthemycorrhizalfungithere.Ithasthetypethatlikestobethere.Inotherwords,whenyoubuyaninoculant,youmaybeimportingfungithatdidn'tnaturallygrowintheareayouhave.Theyfoundthatwhenyouputinoculantintothesoil,theystartdukingitout.Thenewstuffstartsdukingitoutwiththeexistingstuff.Youhaveawarzone,andyoudon'tknowwhichone'sgoingtosurvive.

Now,let'ssayyou'vegotasoilthat'suntouched,andit'sgotalotofmycorrhizalassociation.Youbuyacontainerplant,andbecauseit's

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growninasterilesoilmedium,you'reworriedaboutnotenoughmycorrhizalassociation.Butinreality,onceyouplantthatinthegarden,theexistingmycorrhizaeassociationwillquickly,sotospeak,invadetheplantingareaandprovidetheimpactthattheyhave.So,Itrytodiscouragepeoplefrombuyingit,eventhough,inourarea,it'sthehottestthinggoing.Everybodywantstobuymycorrhizaeassociationinoculant.

Penny: Okay.That'sverygoodtoknow.Thislistenerisinterestedinhavingyouexplainagaintheslidewhereyouwerenexttothepileofleavesandmulch,andtherelationshipofthemixturethatyouusedforplanting.

Robert: Oh,theonewheretheguyinthelavendershirtontopofthemoundImadewiththecompostingtreewaste?Isthattheoneyouthinkthey'retalkingabout?

Penny: Ithinkso.

Robert: Yeah.WhatIdidisIgotaloadoffreshtreetrimmingsthathadbothcut-upleavesandcut-upwood,soitwasmorelikeacompostmix.IpiledthatupthreetofourfeethighinamoundthatwastheshapethatIwantedformysoil.Nexttoit,Idugsoiloutofthegroundandplacedfourtosixinchesofsoilontopofthemoundofchips.So,Ididn'tdoanythingtoamendthesoil.Ijusttookthesoildownto...Mysoilgoesdownabout18inchesdeep,soItookthetopupfourtosixinches,appliedthattothetop,putitontopofthemound,andthatgavemeanice,fertilesoilbutnotamended.Inotherwords,therootsaregoingtohavetogetusedtothenativesoil,sothere'snoreasontowastetimeandmoneyamendingthesoil.

Whatyouseeinthatphotographistheuntouchedsoilontopofthemound.Eventhoughit'suntouched,IstillmakealittlemoundwhenIplantthelavenderontopofthebigmound.ThereasonIdidthemoundisIneededdrainageinthatareasothattheplantrootsdidn'trot.So,byputtingamoundnexttoaswale...Idugtheswaledeepertomakethemoundhigher,andsoIdoubledmyimpact.So,thewaterbecamefarawayfrom...Thedrainagewaterbecamefaraway

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fromtherootsystemontopofthatmound.Iguessthecriticalpointisthatyoudon'treallyneedtoamendthesoilifyou'reabletogathernativesoilnearby.

Penny: Okay.Thenextquestionisaboutamendmentsthatyouwerejusttalkingabout.Doyouuseanysortsofadditionalamendmentsincertainsituations?

Robert: Well,ifyou'vegotareallyfunkysoil,andlet'ssayyouwanttoputinabunchofpetuniasorvegetables,itmightbebetterjusttogetaveryfertile,highlyamendedsoilandmakealayerofthatontopoftheveryfunkysoil.Butyouwouldhavetotreatitlikeacontainer.Inotherwords,therootsgrowingthroughthatloamy,fertilesoilwillgrowlikegangbusters.Then,whentheyhitthenativesoil,it'dbelikehittingabrickwall.They'llstopgrowing,andtheywon'tproliferateintheexistingsoil.So,youhavetokeepthenutrientsinthewaterhappyinthedepthofthesoilthatyou'veadded.Inotherwords,alotoftimes,peopledoraisedbedsforabunchofreasons.Itisverypopularnowtodoraisedbedsforabunchofreasons.Butifyouputaveryloamymixontopofexistingsoilthat'salittlebitheavy,youreallygottowatchwhatyou'redoingasfaraskeepingitmoistsothattheraisedbedportiondoesn'tdryouttoomuch.

Penny: Okay.Youmentionedthatyouonlyplanttreesintheautumn.Thequestionisaretheretechniquesthatyoucouldrecommendifyouneedtoplanttreesinthespring?

Robert: Right.Asalandscaper,practicallyspeaking,Ihadtoplantallyearround.Icouldn'tjustwaitandplantallmyclients'plantmaterialinonemonth.Justwouldn'tworkout.WhenIwasalandscaperandplantedyearround,Iwascarefultonotamendthesoilmuch,unlessitwasahorriblesituationwhereIhadtoamendupsomesoiltogetthedepthIneeded.Then,Ijustdealtwithalotofheavymulchtokeepthingshappier.Thethingis,inplantinginthespring,summerinCaliforniaisareallybadtimebecausethesoilstartstodryout.Ifyoudon'tprovideadequatemoisture,therootsstopgrowing.So,plantinginthespringorsummerinCalifornia,youreallyneedto

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keepaconsistentmoisturegoingsothattherootsdon'tgethammeredbytoodryasituation.

Penny: Okay.Thenextquestioniswhatisthebestwaytoamendsoilonaconstructionsitethatisabiologicaldeadzone?

Robert: Ohmy.

Penny: Andifyoubringintopsoilandgoodcompost,willthatprovidethenecessarymycorrhizae?

Robert: Goodquestion.Ithinkonthemycorrhizae,ifyoubuytopsoilfromasupplier,theymaynothavemuchmycorrhizaeinitbecausetheymayhavegottena...Notsterile.Inourarea,whentheymaketopsoil,theygrabloamfromsomewhere,andthentheyaddawholebunchofstufftoit.Thepossibilitythatthere'smycorrhizaeinthatloamisprettyhigh.Idon'tknowofanytesttoseeifthere'smycorrhizaeunlessyouseethefilamentsthemselves.ButusuallywhenIbuytopsoil,it'ssometimesstillhotfromthecompostingmaterialthat'sinit,andyouwouldn'tseemuchinthewayoffungi.Sobasically,ifIhadahorriblesituation,Itendtocomeinandtryto,inasmallsituation,useaspadingforktocrackandheavethesoilbeforeaddingthetopsoil.Then,Imightforkandheave,addtwotofourinchesoftopsoilthatyou'vepurchased,forkandheaveagain,andthenaddtwotofourmoreinches.Then,maybetillitorinvertitjustforthesakeoftryingtogetagraduationfromnoamendmenttoslightlyamendedtohighlyamendedsothattherootsatthehighlyamendedzonecangrowdownandnotgetinasituationwheretheyfeellikethey'rehittingabrickwall,butthey'regoingintodenseranddensersoilgradually.

Idon'thaveaproblemwithrototillingortillingifit'sonlydoneoncetogetthingsoffandrunning.Inacommercialsituation,youreallycan'tavoiditalotoftimes,though.Duetoconstraintsoftime,money,andseason,youoftenhavetotill.Asadigression,alotofpeopleorintheno-tillthesedays,andtheytalkaboutRuthStout,thequeenofno-till.Well,ifyoureadherbookcarefully,sheimportedmanureandtilleditinfor12yearsbeforeshestartedusing

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herstrawmulch.Idon'tbelongtoanyreligionofgardening,soIfeelthatifyouwanttodouble-digyourvegetablegardentogetitoffandrunning,youcandothat.Afteracertainnumberofyears,youmaybeabletoswitchtono-tillnoproblem.Butinacommercialsettinglikethey'retalkingaboutwiththetopsoil,Ihavenoproblemwith,inabigarea,rippingitwithabigtractorusing...Inourarea,wegodownfourfeetdeepwithrippingbars,orrototillinginasmallsetting,andthendealingwiththetopsoilafterit'sapplied.

Now,ifyoufeelthatthesupplierhasmismanagedtheirproductionoftopsoil,itcertainlycan'thurttodomycorrhizalinoculant.Whetherornotyou'dbewastingyourmoneyremainstobeseen.Butyoucanhedgeyourbets,ifyoucanafforditinthebudget,Iwouldsaygoforit.Butyou'vegottolookforaninoculantthathasabroadspectrumofthemycorrhizae.Someofthemthataresoldonlyhaveoneortwospeciesofthe,Idon'tknowhowyoupronounceit,Glomusgenus.Whereastheonesthatarebettertogethave10,12,14speciessothatyougotacross-sectionofstuffbecauseyoudon'tknowwhichoneisgoingtobehappiestinthatsoil.

Penny: Okay.

Robert: IhopeIdidn't[inaudible00:58:23]toomuch.

Penny: No,no.That'sgreat.Thankyou.Wehavetimeforjustonelastquestion,andthisrefersbacktoacommentthatyoumadeearlieraboutirrigation.Thelistenerwouldliketoknowwhatthebookisthatyouwerereferringtoondripirrigation.

Robert: Okay.It'sonmywebsite,samewebsiteIgotupthere,robertkorouk.com.It'scalledDripIrrigationForEveryLandscapeandAllClimates.Theproposalisthatdripirrigationwherethereisintermittentrainscouldpickuptheslackandkeepthesoilexquisitelymoistbutnotwetthroughthedryperiods,evenifit'sonlythreeweeksofdryperiod.Yougetgreateryieldswithdripthananyotherformorirrigation.So,DripIrrigationforEveryLandscapeandAllClimate.It's20bucksonmywebsite,samepriceastherootbook.

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Penny: Okay.Verygood.Well,thankyou,Robert,forallofthesegreatinsightsintotheundergroundworldofroots,andthankyouallforattendingthiswebinar.Ihopeyou'veenjoyedthepresentationandlearnedsometips.Gooddayandgoodgardeningtoyouall.

Marjory: RobertKourik,onroots.Wasn'tthatabsolutelyfascinating?Canyouimaginetheworkofdiggingtheseupandjustvery,verycarefullymappingthat?Rootsarealsosuperimportantfortechniquessuchasbiodrills.Sopeopleareusing,Ithinkyousawsomeoftheworkintherewithradishes,horseradishespecially.Therearesomeplantsthatcanjustdrilldownalmostthroughconcreteandhelpaeratesoilandbringmoresoilfertilitywaydowndeep.SosuperinterestingpresentationIthought.

Hisbook,absolutelypickthatupjustforthedrawingsandflipthroughthedrawings.Healsohassomeotherreallyinterestingtopicsinthatbook,likerootpruning.Actuallyyoucanreallyhelpbringbackatreebypruningtherootsandhowyoudothat.Reallyfascinatingbook.ClickonthatbuttontotherightandthatwillgetyouintouchwithRobertandyoucanpickuphisbooksthere.Ithinkthey'realittlebitcheaperthantheyareonAmazon,ifyoubuythemdirectlyfromRobert.Andthen,ofcourse,alwaysifyoubuythemdirectlyfromhimheisgoingtomakealittlebitmore.And,ofcourse,nobody'sgettingrichwritingbooksaboutroots.Soanythingyoucoulddotosupporthimwouldbefabulous.ClickonthatbuttontotherightthereandgetintouchwithRobert.

Thebuttondownbelow,ofcourseyoucanownthispresentationaswellasalltheother30somethingpresentationsthatwehavehereintheSummit.Andthatbuttondownbelow,Robert's,ishowyoudothat.WealsohavesomesweepstakesprizesthatwedoaftertheSummitisover,andifyoupurchasetheSummitpackagethenyougetautomaticallyenteredintothatsweepstakes.ThisisMarjoryWildcraft,you'reparticipatingintheHomeGrownFoodSummit.

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