UNCONFIRMED MINUTES · Web viewLisa Zajacs to send AC7101/5 Word version to Mark Grassi immediately. (Current version with no mark-ups) ZAJACS David Luoni to check with the Lead of

MATERIALS TESTING LABORATORIESJULY 2009

UNCONFIRMED MINUTESJULY 13-17, 2009

DEDEMAN HOTEL ISTANBULISTANBUL, TURKEY

These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.

MONDAY, JULY 13, 2009 to WEDNESDAY, JULY 15, 2009

1.0 OPENING COMMENTS/INTRODUCTIONS – CLOSED

1.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check

The Materials Testing Laboratories Task Group was called to order at 9:00 a.m., July 13, 2009.It was verified that only USER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of the meeting.

A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:

User Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)

NAME COMPANY NAME

* Muriel Auzanne AirbusThomas Brendel MTU Aero Engines GmbH

* Georges Coste SAFRAN Group* Doug Deaton GE Aviation* Olivier Goupillon Eurocopter* Frank Lennert The Boeing Company* Tim Myers Honeywell

K. T. Quader The Boeing Company* Christian Schwaminger MTU Aero Engines GmbH* Neil Tinsley Pratt & Whitney* Barbara Waller Raytheon Co.* Verl Wisehart Rolls-Royce Corp. Vice Chairperson

Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)

NAME COMPANY NAME

Mario Blanchi ByTestDavid Fluk NSL Analytical Services Inc.Markus Fuchsmann Otto Fuchs KGStephen Gehrke Vibro-Meter SACraig Mikin NSL Analytical Services Inc.Owen O’Grady Exova

* Pierre- Emmanuel

Richy Aubert & Duval

Jacques Rossier Vibro-Meter SAGrzegorz Sosha Institute of AviationChowaniec Zdzislaw ZKM Sp. Z. o. o.

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PRI Staff Present

Kevin Wetzel

1.2 Updated July Meeting Agenda

The Materials Testing Laboratories Task Group agreed to move the Review of the NTGOP-001 Appendix 2 from the CLOSED Session on Monday, to the OPEN Session on Tuesday to include Supplier feedback.

2.0 NEW VOTING MEMBERS – CLOSED

Tim Myers of Honeywell and Doug Deaton of GE Aviation were voted in as User Voting Members of the Materials Testing Task Group. Georges Coste of SAFRAN Group was voted in as an Alternate User Voting Member.

Motion made by Frank Lennert and seconded by Christian Schwaminger to approve Tim Myers as a new User Voting Member. Motion Passed

Motion made by Frank Lennert & seconded by Barbara Waller to approve Doug Deaton as a new User Voting Member. Motion Passed

Motion made by Muriel Auzanne and seconded by Frank Lennert to approve Georges Coste as a new Alternate User Voting Member. Motion Passed

2.1 Succession Plan

Verl Wisehart of Rolls-Royce Corp is the new Chairperson for the Materials Testing Task Group and will formally assume this role during the October 2009, Nadcap meeting. A new Materials Testing Vice Chairperson is still needed. All Primes were asked to evaluate their ability to perform the duties of Vice Chairperson.

3.0 REVIEW ROLLING ACTION ITEM LIST (RAIL) – CLOSED

The Materials Testing Task Group reviewed all Open Action Items. For specific details, please see the current Materials Testing Laboratories Rolling Action Item List posted at www.eAuditNet.com, under Public Documents.

4.0 MTL PROGRAM STATUS – NMC METRICS – CLOSED

Kevin Wetzel presented a summary of recent audit activity. The Materials Testing Task Group had zero lapsed accreditations for the month of June. All NMC metrics were Green for the month of June. Currently Materials Testing is ahead of schedule for the total number of audits for 2009. The

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Staff Engineer reviewed Primes ballot participation. The Staff Engineer encouraged all User Voting Members to vote. In future meetings the NMC metrics will no longer be reviewed in both Closed and Open sessions. The metrics will be sent to the Primes two weeks prior to the Nadcap meeting for review. Then the NMC metrics will only be presented during the Open meeting.

4.1 Re-organization of Nadcap MTL Documents - Status

Kevin Wetzel presented a summary of the current status of the Materials Testing checklist revisions.

AC7101/1 – Requirements such as Rounding and Replacement/Retesting are best covered by a single document like the AC7101/1. However, the infrequent nature of AC7101/1 auditing leaves critical aspects of many methods poorly audited. The suggestion of an AC7101/1 “Surveillance Audit Checklist” was made and will be considered by the AC7101/1 Sub-Team.

It was decided by the Task Group that due to nature of changes taking place, all Materials Testing checklist revisions will be issued at one time. Previously the Task Group was going to issue a revised checklist as it was completed. This process was going to present a problem and potential conflict with AC7101/1 – General Requirements as it was to be completed last.

5.0 SE DELEGATION OVERSIGHT – CLOSED

Kevin Wetzel presented the Delegation Summary data for Oversight. All Materials Testing Audit Report Reviewers met the criteria to maintain delegation. The Task Group has maintained a 79% oversight (minimum of 10% is required).

6.0 CLOSED MEETING ISSUES – CLOSED

6.1 ASTM Membership after 2010

Nadcap will no longer have an ASTM subscription after May 31, 2010. Various approaches to this change were discussed.

Require the Auditor to procure the necessary documents. This approach is used by other Task Groups. The Auditors are required to procure and learn the documents prior to their audits. The cost of procuring the standards is covered by the Task Group.

Eliminate all references to the ASTM standards from the checklists. This approach is being used by the Chemical Processing Task Group.

Require the supplier to provide the necessary documents to the Auditor in advance of the Materials Testing Audit. This requirement is only possible if the subscription service agrees to reasonable criteria that can be applied to all Suppliers.

6.2 Internal Round Robin Requirements vs. Proficiency Testing3


Greater clarity is needed across the board regarding the Materials Testing Task Group’s requirements. Topics discussed were the minimum requirements for Proficiency Testing and internal round robin between employees or internal round robin on equipment/materials or both. A table was proposed to clarify this topic. The AC7101/1 Sub-Team will address in the new Appendix.

6.3 eAuditNet 2.0

Issues with eAuditNet were discussed. The primary concern is that not all items are visible to the Task Group Members. There appears to be inconsistency between items visible to various User Members. Ticket #3667 was issued and the problem has been corrected. The secondary concern is that the new eAuditNet is slower than the original website.

6.4 Audit 129321

This audit was submitted to the Task Group for failure. The audit had 42 findings against the limit of 40 findings for a 5 day audit. The Task Group voted to fail the audit. The Supplier subsequently appealed the failure and traveled to Istanbul to discuss their audit with the Task Group. After the Supplier presented their case, the Task Group reviewed all findings. The review of the audit findings resulted in the determination to fail based on excessive number of findings was incorrect due to: voiding of NCR #1, consolidation of NCR #2 with NCR #37, and since NCR #25 & NCR #30 directly contradict, only one of the findings could stand. The Supplier requested that the audit failure be reconsidered.

The Materials Testing Task Group is concerned about the Supplier’s unwillingness to make a positive statement concerning product impact resulting from their audit findings. The original audit failure had been overturned by 3 findings being eliminated due to invalidation and/or consolidation of findings. A motion was made that pending resolution of existing issues, the Supplier should be subject to a 3 month verification audit and a full scope audit in 12 months.

Motion made by Doug Deaton and seconded by Frank Lennert to overturn the failure of #129321. Motion Passed

The Supplier was informed by the Vice Chairperson that their audit does not fail per Failure Mode B as originally reported. NCR #1 was eliminated, NCR #2 & NCR #37 were consolidated, and it was conceded that NCR #25 contradicts NCR #30. This makes the total number of findings 39 not 42.

ACTION ITEM: The Supplier for #129321 must demonstrate “no product impact” was stressed or the current accreditation will lapse. (Supplier, DUE DATE: July 31, 2009)

ACTION ITEM: The Staff Engineer will discuss audit #129321 with the assigned Auditors and report back to the Task Group. (Kevin Wetzel, DUE DATE: July 31, 2009)

6.5 It was announced that Materials Testing Chairperson, Neil Clarke of Rolls-Royce plc and his wife had a baby girl. Congratulation to Neil and Family.

6.6 Nadcap Special Process with Testing Scope

A presentation was given by Muriel Auzanne. The Task Group is concerned over the clarity of data. This action has been taken to the NMC Standardization Sub-Team.

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6.7 Accreditation extensions

11 audits will most likely require an accreditation extension for the July 31, 2009 scheduling quarter. The Task Group agreed to grant extensions for 9 for the laboratories.

Audit 127715 – This Supplier only tests fasteners. The Task Group decided the audit could be extended if the cycles are not completed before the end of July.

Audit 127032 – The Task Group decided to grant the supplier an extension only if the audit is in Task Group Review by July 31, 2009.

Audit 129321 – The Task Group will grant an extension after the Supplier states and justifies “no product impact” for non-conformances or clarifies non-conformances plus fully addresses their response.

ACTION ITEM: The Staff Engineer will proceed in granting the accreditation extensions for the 9 Suppliers approved by the Task Group. (Kevin Wetzel, DUE DATE: July 31, 2009)

6.8 MOUs

Materials Testing /Welding MOU –The Welding and Materials Testing Laboratories Task Groups are still working to get the MOU ready for signature. Preliminarily approval was given. Welding is still working on the final version of the checklist.

Materials Testing /Coatings MOU – A tentative revision to current MOU was discussed. Nothing was decided.

7.0 OPENING COMMENTS – CLOSED


It was verified that only USER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of the meeting. Quorum was established.

8.0 CLOSED MEETING ISSUES – CLOSED

The Task Group continued their discussion of Closed Meeting Issues. See Section 6.4 for details.

9.0 OPENING COMMENTS/INTRODUCTIONS – OPEN

9.1 Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes

Motion made by Frank Lennert and seconded by Christian Schwaminger to approve the minutes from the February 2009 Nadcap meeting. Motion Passed

The minutes from February 2009 were approved as written.

10.0 Nadcap TUTORIAL – OPEN

A presentation was given by Kevin Wetzel regarding the Nadcap Policies and Procedures.

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10.1 Supplier Voting Members

A Supplier must attend two meetings to be considered as a Supplier Voting Member. Once a Supplier becomes a Supplier Voting Member, the Supplier must attend at least one Nadcap Meeting per year to maintain their Voting Membership.

11.0 REVIEW ROLLING ACTION ITEM LIST (RAIL) – OPEN

The RAIL captures actions and tracks the close out of these actions. The majority of action items are from the meetings, some from teleconferences and emails. The Task Group reviewed all open action items on the RAIL. For specific details, please see the Materials Testing Rolling Action Item List posted at www.eAuditNet.com under Public Documents. See Section 3.0 for details.

12.0 MTL PROGRAM STATUS / NMC METRICS – OPEN

See Section 4.0 for details.

12.1 Re-organization of Nadcap MTL Documents – Status

Refer to section 4.1 for details.

12.2 Update Status of working session/Comment resolution

With the number of attendees, comments were reviewed by the whole group.

13.0 REVIEW NTGOP-001 APPENDIX II – OPEN

The comments from the previous ballot were reviewed and addressed. The Task Group agreed that the definition of a “Period” must be included in the document. The Task Group rejected the suggestion to consolidate the Proficiency Testing tables. For ISO/IEC 17025 audits, it was clarified that these audits do not require Materials Testing Task Group approval, which makes some redundancy inevitable. The Task Group approved the suggestion to replace the name CENTECH with the new company name of A.G.S. PTP. After changes Document will be sent to NMC for final approval.

Motion made by Frank Lennert and seconded by Verl Wisehart to approve the name change from CENTECH to A.G.S. PTP. Motion Passed

ACTION ITEM: The Staff Engineer will proceed with agreed upon changes and submit ballot to NMC. (Kevin Wetzel, DUE DATE: August 7, 2009)

14.0 IPT/PTP/RR DISCUSSION – OPEN

The Task Group discussed the criteria for accepting PTP providers. A tentative guideline for potential PTP providers was reviewed and modified. This issue is still being worked, and will need further discussions at future meetings. The AC7101/1 Sub-Team will work on an Appendix which will define the criteria for additional PT providers.

ACTION ITEM: The AC7101/1 Sub-Team will draft proposed Appendix concerning acceptance of Proficiency Providers. (Muriel Auzanne, DUE DATE: October 19, 2009)

ACTION ITEM: The Staff Engineer/CSR will setup necessary conference calls with WebEx to facilitate IPT/PTP discussions. (Kevin Wetzel, DUE DATE: July 31, 2009)

15.0 OPENING COMMENTS/INTRODUCTIONS – OPEN

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15.1 Call to Order

16.0 SUPPLIER SUPPORT COMMITTEE REPORT – OPEN

Corwyn Berger Materials Testing Representative to the Supplier Support Committee (SSC) was unable to attend. The Supplier Support Committee presentation was given by Pierre-Emmanuel Richy. For complete details see the SSC Minutes posted on www.pri-network.org.

17.0 REVIEW OUTPUT OF PLANNING & OPS MEETING – OPEN

17.1 Standardization

The process of standardization between the Commodity Task Groups was discussed.

17.2 Failure Overturn

It was discovered that the Materials Testing Task Group has the highest rate of overturned failure of audits. NMC will be scrutinizing the Task Group for this high rate.

18.0 BALLOT COMMENT RESOLUTION – OPEN

With the number of attendees comments were review by the whole group.

19.0 UPDATE STATUS FROM WORKING SESSION/COMMENT RESOLUTIONS – OPEN

AC7101 Rev A will be maintained until all revisions of the checklist have been completed, this will allow a thorough review that all requirements have been accounted for in the revised documents.

AC7101/2 – There were three responders who submitted comments for the last ballot. These comments were considered and a Task Group resolution was achieved. The Task Group’s decision needs communicated to the responders. If the responders accept the changes, then the document will not require an additional ballot due to the non-technical nature of the changes. But if the responders are not satisfied with the Task Group’s outcome, a conference call will be scheduled.

ACTION ITEM: Verl Wisehart will follow-up with the responders from the most recent AC7101/2 ballot to communicate the Task Group’s resolution. (Verl Wisehart, DUE DATE: July 31, 2009)

AC7101/5 – This checklist is still being worked. Portable Testers will not be addressed.

AC7101/6 – The Task Group agreed that question 10.1 needs to be re-worded for clarity, and include a separate item g for clarity. As these changes are for format only, they do not require balloting.

ACTION ITEM: Olivier Goupillon to submit changes for AC7101/6. (Olivier Goupillon, DUE DATE: July 31, 2009)

AC7101/7 – There was discussion regarding this checklist, but issues still need resolved. It was determined that an additional 14-Day Affirmation Ballot is required.

ACTION ITEM: Jim Hartman is to prepare AC7101/7 for an additional ballot. (Jim Hartman, DUE DATE: July 31, 2009)

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AC7101/9 – The Sub-Team needs a conference call to resolve ballot comments.

ACTION ITEM: Frank Lennert will schedule an AC7101/9 Sub-Team conference call to resolve ballot comments. (Frank Lennert, DUE DATE: July 31, 2009)

AC7101/1 – To ensure that all requirements are captured, the AC7101/1 document will be the last checklist completed. This will allow for a thorough review against the AC7101 standard and all revised checklists. The Sub-Team will also draft an Appendix concerning acceptance of Proficiency Providers.

20.0 NEW BUSINESS – OPEN

No New Business was discussed during this meeting.

21.0 REVIEW NEW ACTION ITEMS – OPEN

There are 12 new Action Items generated from this meeting.

22.0 AUDITOR TRAINING – PLANNING FOR OCTOBER 2009 – OPEN

The attached preliminary training agenda was discussed. Time will be spent reviewing the changes taking place to all checklists. Sub-Team leads are to give a presentation on their revised document.

ACTION ITEM: Checklist Sub-Team Leads are to prepare Auditor Training presentations for the revised checklists. (Sub-Team Leads, DUE DATE: October 02, 2009)

23.0 FINALIZE OCTOBER 2009 MEETING AGENDA – OPEN

It is expected that there will be a good Supplier attendance at the October, 2009 Meeting in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The Task Group meeting will be 4 days starting Monday, October 19, 2009, and finishing Thursday October 22, 2009. There will be a round table discussion with the Auditor and Primes scheduled for Sunday evening October 18th. All Primes are encouraged to attend. This meeting has been well received by the Auditors as a chance to discuss their questions/intent of the Materials Testing Task Group.

The Opening Meeting agenda was completed at 4:00PM. The Suppliers were thanked for their time and the Task Group proceeded to additional closed meeting topics.

24.0 ADDITIONAL CLOSED MEETING ISSUES – CLOSED


It was verified that only USER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of the meeting. Quorum was established.

24.2 Audit #128211 – Supplier Advisory #1486 was issued concerning NCR#2. The Task Group reviewed the NCR, SA, and generated questions for the supplier. The Staff Engineer is to forward questions to the Supplier.

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24.3 Audit #127032 – Audit has been submitted for failure due to excessive cycles. The Task Group reviewed information from Jim Lewis regarding the Supplier’s response to documentation of machining parameters procedurally. More information is needed. The audit was not failed, and the Supplier closed the open NCR with one additional round.

ACTION ITEM: Kevin Wetzel to discuss 127032 with Jim Lewis. (Kevin Wetzel, DUE DATE: July 31, 2009) Closed

ADJOURNMENT – JULY 15, 2009 – Meeting was adjourned at 6:30 p.m.

Minutes Prepared by: Barbara Waller, [email protected]

***** For PRI Staff use only: ******

Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved during this meeting? (select one)

YES* x NO

*If yes, the following information is required:

Documents requiring revision:

Who is responsible: Due date:

NTOGP-001 Appendix 2 Kevin Wetzel August 7, 2009

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