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    Michele Costanzo interviews Bernard Tschumi about his work and his vision of the changing field of contemporary

    design research. How do the younger generation of students receive Tschumi's seminal theoretical works? Is a lack

    of time merely the current scapegoat for a more considered conceptual approach? How does Tschumi view the

    proliferation of architectural fetishes in the urban landscape? How is his own theoretical landscape shifting?

    Twenty Years After (Deconstructivism)

    An Interview with Bernard Tschumi

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    In the early 1990s, there was a significant schism in

    architecture. This was triggered in the recently globalised

    world of design by a simultaneous crisis in theoretical

    thought and a growing shift towards the formal. As the

    preoccupation with form developed through the decade it

    concurred with a burgeoning international economy,

    which paved the way for the exponential rise of thesignature architect. Elevated by the association with the

    gilded world of the global brand, the architectural doyen

    inevitably became separated from the spatial concerns of

    the city. However, with the current economic slowdown

    and an acute growing awareness of wider issues, such as

    the imminent shortage of water, food and energy as well

    as climate change, the reconsideration of the architect as

    merely a marketing instrument or branding package has

    become pressing. It is now time to re-evaluate how the

    architect might become an operative figure in the world of

    aesthetics while being attentive to social and urban

    objectives.

    The fact that Bernard Tschumi is both a theoretician

    and a designer is key to understanding his distinctive

    approach to architecture. After completing his degree at

    the Federal Institute of Technology (ETH) in Zurich,

    Tschumi moved to London in 1970 to teach at the

    Architectural Association (AA) under the directorship of

    Alvin Boyarsky. In 1976 he moved to the US where he

    taught at the Institute for Architecture and Urban

    Studies, founded by Peter Eisenman, and the University

    of Princeton, before taking up a position as a visiting

    professor at Cooper Union in New York in the early 1980s.In the late 1970s, Tschumi began to focus on

    identifying a different and more direct relationship with

    architecture through a series of drawings known as The 

    Screenplays (1977), in which he used collages of images

    from film noir to experiment with the technique of

    cinematic editing and montage. This research was

    expanded in The Manhattan Transcripts (1981) with its

    three simultaneous levels of reality:1

    the event

    (represented by documentary-style news photography);

    movement (re-created by diagrams of movements from

    choreography and sport); and space (explored through

    photography, and building and site plans). This effectively

    placed the architectural experience in close proximity on

    three different levels.

    In 1983 when Tschumi won the competition to design the 50-

    hectare (125-acre) Parc de la Villette in Paris, he entered the world of

    professional practice and started to build a series of highly iconic

    projects, pervaded by a profound theoretical investigation. His ties with

    academia, however, remained strong, and in 1988 he was appointed

    Dean of the Graduate School of Architecture, Planning and

    Preservation at Columbia University in New York. His 15-year term atColumbia testifies to his efforts in the field of education, an activity

    that provided him with a great deal of stimulation and an important

    outlet for his ongoing speculative, intellectual reflections on the

    making of architecture.

    Between 2001 and 2002, the drawings from The Manhattan 

    Transcripts were included in a significant retrospective exhibition that

    travelled to four US cities. Curated by Jeff Kipnis, ‘Perfect Acts of

    Architecture’ displayed the graphic work that Peter Eisenman, Rem

    Koolhaas and Elia Zenghelis, Daniel Libeskind, Thom Mayne and

    Tschumi all produced in a 10-year time period – from 1972 to 1982.2

    Paper architecture, Kipnis notes, can have a role in the history of

    architecture provided that it is innovative and if its main purpose is the

    drawing in itself.3

    In other words, it must suggest new research trends

    and have an objective value. Work was selected from that particular era

    in order to consider these points by highlighting their internal values.

    However, although supported by a profound theoretical content, they

    all subsume the historical momentum in which they were produced. By

    encapsulating the social context and the economic transformations

    typical of their time, they stress their affiliation to a period of great

    communication changes. This incontrovertibly led to the profusion of

    computer-aided design with its almost inexhaustible potential.

    In his selection of the six projects for the exhibition, Kipnis captures

    a renewed confidence.4

    There is a strong sense that the featuredarchitects are poised to pass on something important to ensuing

    generations. In a similar way that it was apparent in other cultural and

    artistic forms at the time, such as cinema and rock music (think of

    2001: A Space Odyssey from Stanley Kubrick, or Electric Lady Land 

    from Jimi Hendrix).

    Transcending History and ‘Concept-Form’

    Interviewing Tschumi provided the unique opportunity to ask him

    whether he shares Kipnis’ interpretations of the featured projects. Does

    he think that The Manhattan Transcripts continue to have a theoretical

    value to emerging generations, providing a catalyst for new ideas?

    ‘While the mode of communication and the general sensibility of

    The Manhattan Transcripts clearly belong to the period, the issues they

    explore always had the ambition to transcend the historical conditions

    Bernard Tschumi, Concert Hall and Exhibition Centre, Rouen, France, 2001

    This cultural complex is located at the gateway to Rouen, close to the National Route 138. The concert

    hall plays host to various musical and sporting events, and the new exhibition centre accommodates

    large conventions and trade fairs. The concept involves two envelopes, with a large ‘in-between’ area

    which, animated by the various routes to the hall itself, becomes one of the project’s key spaces.

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    of their time. My interest at that time (as well as today)

    was to try to contribute to – or potentially alter – the

    generally accepted definition of what architecture is.

    Hence issues of movement and event, together with their

    mode of notation, were first of all an investigation into the

    nature of architecture.

    ‘Had I engaged in the work today, it is likely that the

    use of computers would have radically changed

    the appearance of the work. Would it have changed the

    content itself? Probably up to a point, yet the questioning

    would have remained fairly comparable, due to the larger

    issues at hand. Would the new generations be able to

    draw from them? I have always been suspicious of the

    notion of generations. I rather believe in a certain

    periodicity of themes, returning to haunt us at certain

    moments of history.’

    Tschumi’s generation was able to dedicate a great deal

    of time to further research and careful consideration of

    conceptual design. Is this, however, now a justifiable scapegoat for the

    loss of any conceptual approach to design?

    ‘There have always been periods of conception and periods of

    consumption. This is due to economic or social forces way beyond the

    control of architects. I would say that, as opposed to the1970s, the

    early 21st century is characterised by a faster cycle of production and

    consumption. This raises conceptual as well as political issues. I hope

    these will soon be investigated.’

    Given Tschumi’s association with Deconstruction, I was keen to find

    out what his understanding of the ‘formalistic’ is vis-à-vis the current

    hedonistic attitude affecting architecture now:

    ‘What is “form”? The problem is that both media and dictionaries

    define it in the most reductive and banalising way: “form as the outline

    of an object against a background”. So does the architectural

    dictionary of received ideas. I find more pleasure in what I would call

    “concept-form”, bringing a high level of abstraction in orchestrating

    together a complexity that includes materials, movement and

    programmes in the definition of architectural form.

    Bernard Tschumi, Blue Residential Tower, Manhattan, New York, 2007

    This 17-storey residential and commercial tower in the Lower East Side of Manhattan includes 32 apartments.

    The strategy was to create a highly specific architectural statement that responds to the eclecticism of the historic

    neighbourhood. Its original, pixellated profile is a new presence in the Manhattan urbanscape.

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    on the one hand raise interesting questions about a new form of

    architecture, yet on the other signify an impoverishment of

    architectural thought and invention. I personally like the challenge of

    different geographical or social contexts as a stimulus to new

    architectural concepts.’

    Given the distractions and difficulties of executing work, do you

    think it remains important to establish the ‘theoretical core’ around

    which architecture is to rely on in the near future? ‘Probably not one

    single synthetic core, but four or five anchor points, around which

    issues revolve and occasionally intersect: space, programme, body,

    envelopes, global versus local, economy of means, typology versus

    topology, concept-form, etc.’

    Given this, can the theoretical/conceptual nucleus of a project

    safeguard architecture from the market?

    ‘Architecture does not need to be safeguarded: commerce has also

    been a driving force of progress throughout history. Yet it is

    commercialism that is problematic – when market forces begin to

    control every aspect of architectural thinking.’

    ‘I suppose it is the same distinction as between

    pornography and eroticism. They are both okay, but one is

    substantially more complex and more abstract.’

    Spectacle?

    ‘I also would not completely condemn the production

    of spectacle. After all, it can also be theorised ... ‘

    Context, Place and Theory

    Designers cannot avoid including in their work the

    changes occurring in their everyday lives, whether it is a

    matter of interpretation or mirroring their own inner

    thoughts. With this in mind, how can we view the

    proliferation of architectural fetishes in the urban

    landscape; that is, the uncontrolled diffusion of

    architectural objects that are indifferent to the

    environment they are part of?

    ‘This indifference is more problematic. Exporting the

    same “shapes” to Bilbao, Los Angeles or Abu Dhabi may

    Bernard Tschumi, Parc de la Villette, Paris, 1983–98

    The aim of this project, which marked the starting point of Tschumi’s

    career as a theorist and designer, was to create a new model for the

    urban park, in which programme, form and ideology all play integral

    roles. The image represents, as the architect asserts, the idea that the

    importance of architecture ‘resides in the ability to accelerate society’s

    transformation through a careful agency of spaces and events’.

    Bernard Tschumi, Lindner Athletic Center,

    University of Cincinnati, Ohio, 2006

    Representing the epicentre of the university’s athletic and

    academic activities, the unusual curvilinear shape of this

    building takes advantage of the tight constraints of the site

    to create dynamic residual spaces between the existing

    stadium, sports fields and the recreation centre.

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    Tschumi’s buildings tend to be vital places open to a range of

    human activities and exchanges: places committed to the satisfaction

    of social needs. However, in the third volume from Event-Cities ,5

    the

    identification of the ‘Concept, Context, Content’ triad seems to have

    removed the role of the user from architecture’s original aim. What has

    caused such a change in the understanding of strategic planning?

    ‘To move from “Space, Event, Movement” to “Concept, Context,

    Content” is by no means a negation of the first triad. On the contrary,my goal is to expand the earlier issues by inserting the unavoidable

    complexity that reality entails. To bring context and content to event

    and movement is a way to confront them with the realities of both

    culture and production.’

    In recent times, words like ‘event’ and ‘space’ in Tschumi’s work

    have been replaced by others like ‘concept’ and ‘context’. This

    seemed to start happening with the project for the New Acropolis

    Museum. Does this shift in terminology represent a critical

    reassessment of the work?

    ‘The project for the New Acropolis Museum had a profound effect

    on my thinking. After we won the competition and for a couple of years,

    I was not sure what to make of it. It did not fit neatly into the

    argumentation around my earlier projects. So I would rarely talk about

    it. And yet I knew the project was important. It took me a while to

    realise that this project brutally confronted issues that I had been able

    to sidestep before, such as the issue of context. Rather than a

    reassessment of the work, it became a means to expand thought about

    the overall work, a case where practice feeds theory.’

    The last consideration, in which Tschumi asserts that it is possible

    in defined circumstances to arrive at a theory through practice,

    explains and analyses more thoroughly what he affirmed at the

    beginning of his studies and reflections on the project: that ‘concept,

    context and content are part of the definition of contemporary urbanculture and therefore of architecture. Theory is a practice, a practice of

    concepts. Practice is a theory, a theory of contexts.’64

    This interview has been compiled from email correspondence between Michele Costanzo

    and Bernard Tschumi from April to June 2008.

    Translated from the Italian version into English by Paul David Blackmore

    Notes

    1. The Manhattan Transcripts , Architectural Design (London), 1981; 2nd edition, Academy

    Editions (London), 1994.

    2. For an overview of the exhibition see

    http://www.sfmoma.org/exhibitions/exhib_detail.asp?id=42.

    3. Jeffrey Kipnis, Perfect Acts of Architecture , The Museum of Modern Art (New York) andWexner Center for the Arts (Columbus), 2001.

    4. The six featured series of drawings in the exhibition were as follows: Rem Koolhaas and

    Elia Zenghelis, Exodus or The Voluntary Prisoners of Architecture , 1972; Peter Eisenman,

    House VI Transformation Collages , 1976; Bernard Tschumi, The Manhattan Transcripts ,

    1976–81; Daniel Libeskind, Micromegas , 1978, and Chamber Works , 1983; Thom Mayne

    (Morphosis Studio), Sixth Street House , 1986–87, and Kate Mantilini Restaurant , 1986.

    5. Bernard Tschumi, Event-Cities 3 , MIT Press (Cambridge, MA, and London), 2005.

    6. Event-Cities , op cit, p 3.

    Text © 2009 John Wiley & Sons Ltd. Images: pp 24, 26, 29 © Peter Mauss/Esto; p 27 ©

    Sophie Chivet; p 28 © Christian Richters

    Bernard Tschumi, New Acropolis Museum, Athens, 2009

    The distinctive characteristic of this new museum structure is its

    relationship with the ancient Acropolis and celebrated

    monuments which sit on a plateau overlooking the city. The

    building highlights the individual elements on the site by

    focusing on the creation of broad and inspired views from the

    different vantage points within the museum.

    Bernard Tschumi, School of Architecture, FIU Miami, Florida, 2003

    The Florida International School of Architecture is a place in

    which social exchange, discussion and debate between students

    and teachers are key. Its buildings are thus generators of events and

    interactions. According to Tschumi: ‘The project can be described

    as the sobriety of two wings defining a space activated by the

    exuberance of three colourful generators. The sober wings are

    made of precise yet user-friendly precast concrete; the three

    generators are, respectively, varied yellow ceramic tiles, varied

    red ceramic tiles and nature.’

    Bernard Tschumi, Concert Hall, Limoges, France, 2007Like the Rouen Concert Hall and Exhibition Centre, the Limoges

    Concert Hall is based on the idea of a double envelope. The inner

    envelope, which delineates the perimeter of the performance space,

    is clad entirely with wood, while the exterior envelope is composed

    of polycarbonate panels. The concept responds to the dramatic site:

    a clearing in a large forest at the edge of the city, surrounded by

    200-year-old trees.