Transcript of Ronald Reagan Jr. Interview with Charles Manson

Date of interview: 1991Source of interview: You Tube www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa3SgsfZ3owTranscribed by Gina Judd July 5th 2004

Note: This is for my own research, and is not an official transcript put out by the producers or thesubjects in the interview itself, that is why certain comments I add opinion or thoughts. For myuse, I do my absolute best to accurately transcribe what is said. GJ.

Ronald Reagan Jr: Do you sit in your cell?

Charles Manson: Inaudible

Ronald Reagan Jr: Yeah. Do you get out of your cell and roam?

Charles Manson: I’m in a little square box about from there to there, not very big.

Ronald Reagan Jr: Is that where you get your exercise?

Charles Manson: If you want to call it exercise. Its not really exercise, they just got thisexcuse. See they got these excuses and they play you off like their doingsomething but they’re not really.

Ronald Reagan Jr.: Where do you have your meals, in your cell?

Charles Manson: In my cell, yeah. I’m forced to trust it rather I like to eat from otherpeoples hands or not.

Ronald Reagan Jr: Yeah?

Charles Manson: I’m holding the trust of California in my stomach.

Ronald Reagan Jr: Uh, you get a lot of letters. I know that. They said you get a lot of mailhere. Do you get letters from family members?

Charles Manson: What are family members?

Ronald Reagan Jr: Well people you use to hang out with. Sandra Good I know moved ...

Charles Manson: Sandy’s a good person, she’s a wonderful human being. She did ten yearsin prison trying to stop the chemicals being poured on the land. Don’tthink she did it for me, she did it for herself to improve the world we livein.

Ronald Reagan Jr: You hear from her though

Charles Manson: Yeah, yeah. We write back and forth she’s alright.

Ronald Reagan Jr: Do you make friends in prison? Is that possible? Do you have friends inprison? How do you define a friendship?

Charles Manson: I live by God’s law. I treat everyone just like I would myself. If you treatme right I’ll treat you right. You spit on me then I got a spit coming.

Ronald Reagan Jr: Do you ever feel like you are in danger? You were once a - a fellowinmate once set you on fire once in a previous state.

Charles Manson: Laughs

Ronald Reagan Jr: Do you ever feel like you’re threatened when your in prioson?

Charles Manson: No not really.

Ronald Reagan Jr. Yeah. Not here I guess because you’re...

Charles Manson: What set me on fire was a thought

Ronald Reagan Jr. Laughing I thought it was gasoline (it was paint thinner dweeb)

Charles Manson: No it was an Indian, from India. You remember the next day the head guyof India was shot and killed?

Ronald Reagan Jr: I didn’t realize that was the same day.

Charles Manson: Look it, look it, look it. I’m not on a local level.

Ronald Reagan Jr. You’re on an international level?

Charles Manson: I’m on a world level three times around. I know why the Queen wears thethree stripes in her hat, and I know why she goes to Kentucky to get herhorses. There isn’t any thing I don’t know from here to the IRA. I knowwho gets bombed and why those seventeen people starved themselves inBelfast. That’s because I live in Cell 17 because those are angels that flyin my world. To me those are 17 machine guns. Laughs. Yeah, yeah,yeah.

Ronald Reagan Jr. If you hadn’t grown up institutionalized as you said since you were tenyears old what do you think would be different now for you?

Charles Manson: Well, I haven’t grown, and I don’t think I ever will.

Ronald Reagan Jr. Alright well if you hadn’t spent a lifetime in prison, from the age of tenhow do you think things would be different now?

Charles Manson: I’d be dead.

Ronald Reagan Jr: Yeah?Charles Manson: Yeah. Prison saved me a lot of times. This is not a bad place to be.

Prison is like a monastery. You come and get your stuff together,straighten out your hand, you get another chance to start all over and get itright.

Ronald Reagan Jr: Do you think people get rehabilitated in prison?

Charles Manson: Well sure.

Ronald Reagan Jr: Yeah? How does that happen?

Charles Manson: You have to do it inside yourself. You have to figure out what’s wrongwith you.

Ronald Reagan Jr: Yeah, but do you need a prison to do that? (They use to have mentalhospitals for that before your dad came along)

Charles Manson: A prison helps. Like a lot of times, let me give you this, like veteransraised me. The men that were in the second world war were cottagesupervisors when I was a kid. They taught me how to play handball, theytaught me how to box, they taught me how to be honest with myself. Theytaught me a whole lot of things that are really pretty good. Uh I foughtagainst them for years and I didn’t really understand until I conqueredmyself, they told me that the only guy I’m fighting is me. I’m my ownworst enemy, when I get that straightened out then I can touch somebodyelse, but in order to do that sometimes you’ve got to go through hardknocks and you’ve got to go through the hard part. Another words howyou gonna go to heaven unless you danced in hell? I mean how you gonnaknow it? How you gonna feel good unless you’ve felt bad? It runs both,different, you know...

Ronald Reagan Jr: When you were first imprisoned you were on death row, your sentencewas commuted in the early 70's. How did you feel though, before thattime?

Charles Manson: I knew that my sentence would be commuted.

Ronald Reagan Jr: You knew that all along?

Charles Manson: Well sure.

Ronald Reagan Jr: So you weren’t afraid of execution (in California? Funny. And again wecan thank your daddy)

Charles Manson: I knew it when I was standing in the courtroom. See uh each man knowswhen he wants too. Each man knows when he must know. When you arepushed in position to know. I stood in the courtroom and a told the judge,“Man I’m dead in this.” What I meant by I’m dead in this, is I don’t haveno thought in none of that. That’s the generation of the sixties. I’m not ageneration of the sixties, I’m a generation of the thirties. I played on thesame ball club that your old man made movies of in Virginia. The VMIwith natural ridge when I was a little kid in 1950 before the Korean Warstarted, I was in the little Federal Boy’s Camp. Everyone thinks I justcame on the “set” in 1969 because I’m little and I look young so they felt Iwas young but I was an old man when I got busted. I’m an old man nowbut I was still an old man then.

Ronald Reagan Jr. Should you be in prison at all, should you have been in prison?

Charles Manson: Well, see to start with prison was originally started as a farm and if youliked the person who came in your courtroom you gave him anotherchance to be reborn and enter into a right way of life. Prison was not builtto punish people, it was built to help people. That’s why they’re calledpeace officers. But sadistic ding dongs got in there and wanted to make itin to be the shadows of what they thought and the incompetent and theinadequate need to punish someone so they feel better. So its like inreform school they use to lay me down and beat me with leather strapsuntil I couldn’t walk. I use to think, ‘What did I do wrong?’ and for yearsI would think I was wrong, that I did something wrong, and then I seenthat it wasn’t that I did anything wrong, they beat me so they showed thenext kids what not to do. Another words prison is in the mind, most of thepeople that work in the prison are more imprisoned then the people theyinaudible. They just got their kids in prison. They got the poor people inprison, they got people who have no money in prison. Uh I don’tunderstand what prison is anymore.

Ronald Reagan Jr. Hmm mm. Would you like to get out of prison?

Charles Manson: Uh, I’d like to get out of handcuffs. Another words I can’t buy no illusionof carrot on the nose. Another words you do what I say and I might dothis; and then I do what you say and you never pay me. I go throughVacaville and I carry Vacaville on my back for 18 years and they promised

me a mainline. Three doctors took me off Category J and took me off highviolent potential. I go back to San Quentin and inaudible go high violenceso they can sell this thing to the public that they’re selling to the public, sothey can have more income taxes and build more prisons and convince thepublic in their eyes as if they’re doing the right thing and telling the publicthat they’re doing good, but they’re doing more crime. We’re creating thecrime that’s eating us up. We’re creating it with our media, we’re creatingit. Criminals are our children. We don’t want to face that but thecriminals are our children (because cops don’t want to work solving realcrimes, so they target the young and dumb who were not taught theirrights in school and take advantage of their ignorance).

Ronald Reagan Jr: Time to interrupt with another lame question because crazy Charlie isstarting to make too much sense. Let’s say tomorrow they come to youand say, “Charlie we made a mistake you don’t belong here, we’re lettingyou go.” What’s your first move once you’re out the door?

Charles Manson: Go where?

Ronald Reagan Jr: They’re going to let you go.

Charles Manson: Oh. I’d probably get myself a motorcycle.

Ronald Reagan Jr: Where would you go?

Charles Manson: Put a couple of sleeping bags on it and just walk around. Go? You can’tgo anywhere, everywhere you go you’re always there, I’m in the universe,how you gonna move the universe? laughs I mean where are you going togo? You’re here, if you go back to LA and you sit down you’re still here. Anywhere you go you’re always there. You can’t get away from Ireland. Laughs.

Loud music sound (probably indicating a commercial break)

I lived in Mexico City with a bullfighter and he was teaching me how tofight the bulls. He had just came back from Spain with a beautiful awoman and she had three beautiful daughters and it was in a Villa inAcapulco and I was trying to dive off that cliff and I busted my head and Iwas locked up in this little room and they had a little parrot. They treatedme like I was somebody they gave me respect and I taught that parrot howto say, “mother fucker”. He was very staunch and upstanding you know. When I left that parrot was flying up and down the hallways saying thatcurse word. I’ve always felt bad about that.

Ronald Reagan Jr: What’s the best thing that’s ever happened to you in your life?

Charles Manson: I don’t really have all that in my mind. It’s pretty much all balanced out.It’s all what I make it. Let me ask you a question before we go any further.Do you think in your mind from you, not from what somebody else saidbut do you think that I’ve done something bad, that I should be ashamed ofand feel guilty about?

Ronald Reagan Jr. I don’t know. I honestly don’t know what you’ve done and what youhaven’t done. So its really not for me to judge. I know you’re here and tomost people that suggests that you must have done something pretty bad,obviously I know all about the Tate LaBianca murders and that case, butuh its not for me to judge exactly what you’ve done. I don’t have the “reel”of your life.

Charles Manson: Okay, I’ll open up another chamber for you. I’m looking at you and Idon’t see no fear or guilt in you. So I would think that you have done verymuch that you’re ashamed of.

Ronald Reagan Jr. No...I don’t think so.

Charles Manson: Okay. I’m not blind I can see that. Now I’ll tell you this, Leno LaBiancawas killed for a black phone book with all the numbers in it. The phonenumbers that controlled the music market. Sharon Tate and those peoplewere killed because Terry Melcher broke a contract and sent threeorientals with hatchets over to kill somebody else. He didn’t directly dothat. What he did was, he sent his mother’s man over to the put the lightout in another chamber. Another you raised man up in the music andeveryone wants to say, “Well mine is better than his!” and “What are youdoing up on my stage?” “Who controls and who controls what on thisset?” and “Who is the man on this set? Clark Gable?” or “Where is yourfear?” or “How does your heart beat upon this alter, when you see SharonTate’s body laying there all naked and murdered, dead? Do you think Ihad something to do with that?” That was the alter that had nothing to dowith me. It was the turnaround of the whole world it was the Aryanwoman that was being brought up from the head for Rosemary’s Baby. They was the cult. Did they tell you about all the film that they got withthe dogs and the children that came out when the black and white, whenYul Brynner and Peter Sellers paid $30,000.00 to get the video tapes backthat they had done with the pornography where they was gobbling on eachothers knobs in the closet with Sharon for Sharon beautiful Sharon? I’llgive you something that maybe beneficial to your awareness. A guycomes from the University of Southern California into the criminallyinsane ward and he said, “I’m your doctor I am here to help you.” I says,“Okay, I inaudible help”. He says, “Okay what happened in so and so,how do you do such and such, how does it work for so and so, and whenyou go through it, how does your mind buh buh buh buh buh...” and I said,

“If you come to help me, why are you asking me the questions?” He gothis valid information and if I don’t give him information he’ll send thisguy with a big syringe to drug me down out of my head to where I can’tstand up?”

Ronald Reagan Jr. That stuff happens in prison?

Charles Manson: Happens? What do you thinks been happening to me for the last twentyyears? You people are just completely unaware of yourselves and whatyour doing.

Ronald Reagan Jr. You’ve been tortured in priosn?

Charles Manson: I’ve been beat, I’ve been burnt, I’ve been drugged, I’ve been misused inevery direction for whatsoever, its got a new book that just came out that’sjust totally full of insanity. I can’t get to a telephone, anybody can write abook and say anything they want about me. Anybody can get on the tv andsay anything they want, its okay, its okay because I’m already down andI’m handcuffed and they see I’m helpless so they feel like they can getaway with that. But as soon as I’m un-handcuffed you watch the Selleck’sand the Hanson’s. You watch all them Murphy Brown’s and all themRose O’Connors. You watch all them start running. You watch them startrunning when the devil gets loose.

Ronald Reagan Jr. Well if the devil gets loose what do those people have to worry about,(another brilliant question from the mental midget’s son).

Charles Manson They’re own conscience.

Ronald Reagan Jr. You made it sound like you’d go after them.

Charlie Manson (has to explain what a metaphor is to a president’s son) When the devilgets loose, you know, the devil’s inside of you man. Each guy’s got hisown little devil and that’s the doubt and fear that you’ve got insideyourself. There’s already people outside who see me in the fire everynight. They’re running in all kinds of different directions but only becausethey did me wrong. Then there are other people that knows that theydidn’t do me no wrong and I didn’t do them no wrong. I’m just sittinghere going, “Duht dut dut.”over on the hill man. I ain’t done nothing. Iain’t done nothing but play the guitar.

Ronald Reagan Jr. How is the real Charles Manson different from the Manson that’sportrayed in the media?

Charles Manson: I think I’m a little worse?

Ronald Reagan Jr. You think so? In what way?

Charles Manson: Well I’m more real then they say. They make me into be a lying phoney. They make me into being subject to what other people think. I’m notreally subject to what other people thinking. I’m subject to my grandfatherand my grandmother and the Bible and the cross. I believe in Christ, Ibelieve in the Bible and I believe in my Father who are in heaven,hallowed by thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it isin heaven. I am a child. Now I lay me down to sleep I pray the lord mysoul to keep and if I die before I wake I pray the lord my soul to take.

Ronald Reagan Jr. Since you brought it up and its not our intention to really rehash the TateLa Bianca, that’s not why we are here. But, since you brought up religionand Christ, what do you think that Christ would have thought about whatwent on in Sharon Tate’s house and the LaBianca’s house?

Charles Manson: We all have Jesus within us.

Ronald Reagan Jr. Did Tex Watson have Jesus within him when he was sticking a knife and afork into Leno LaBianca’s stomach?

Charles Manson: Tex didn’t have any choice. Tex was trapped in his mother’s mind. Hehad to do what he did.

Ronald Reagan Jr. He was a slave to his upbring?

Charles Manson: He was a slave to society. He had to do what he had to do because that’swhat he was thrown into by the world he lived in. Like any convict willtell you, “I walk the line. I keep a close watch on this heart of mine, I walkthe line.” I walked with Tex, but when Tex took out his knife and he wentout for so and so, I said, “Excuse me, I have to go to the canteen and getmyself an ice cream.” I walked that line all my life, I’ve walked that linein San Quentin, I walked that line in Folsom, I’ve walked that line inLevenworth, I’ve walked that line in Alcatraz, I’ve walked that line in thefederal prisons. When you walk the line in the penitently and somebodiesgot a knife and they’re headed for someone, the best thing you can do istell them, “Look man I wouldn’t do that if I was you.” and if he says, “I’mgoing to do it.” then you say okay and get out of his way, because that’shis life and its got nothing to do with you.

Ronald Reagan Jr. You seem to be suggesting that Tex Watson and I don’t mean to pick onhim just particularly, but anybody who does crimes, who kills people anddoes horrible things that they don’t really have a choice. That they’re theproduct of society.

Charles Manson: Do any of us have a choice? Do you believe in God (no Charlie, hisfamily prayed to Jeanne Disxon the astrologer)

Ronald Reagan Jr. No, I don’t.

Charles Manosn: Okay. Do you believe in yourself?Ronald Reagan Jr. Well, I think therefore I am. So what I’m wondering is what about

freewill? Tex Watson had no responsibility for himself?

Charles Manson: What about freewill. What about freewill?

Ronald Reagan Jr. Well yeah, what about freewill?

Charles Manson: When I was from ten to twenty one, I use to ask if I could have my rightsand they said you’re a juvenile you don’t have no rights. Get over thereand shut your mouth, boy. Then they’d hold me down and beat me until Icouldn’t walk. So, why can’t I do that?

Ronald Reagan Jr. So turn about is fair play huh?

Charles Manson: Well you’ve got permission to do it to me.

Ronald Reagan Jr. Well I’m not interested in...

Charles Manson: Well, I’m saying. I’m saying. If what you do to your children, yourchildren are going to raise up to do what? I mean you get back what youput out is that right or wrong? If you don’t believe in God you believe inthe balance of karma, the balance of your own will. The balance of whatyou know to be true. You know, whatever you do is on you. You’ve gotto be judged by your own God. Don’t judge me man, behind what Texdid. If you kill somebody, you kill yourself. If you live by that gun andyou live by that knife and you kill by that gun and you kill by that knife,then you got no turns coming at the bets table if its your turn to die by thatknife.

Another loud music break

I’ve played a lot of music. I’ve played the kind of music that is um beyond the music that you’ve probably heard. The music I play ispowerful and its frightening, and its almost what some would calldemonish and devilish almost as Druids would be on the alter of. I have acertain following that are committed to the world, and the earth balance ofwhat we call ATWA: The Air, Trees Water Animals. We’re notcommitted to people because we understand that people are not reallyworth our commitment, because they don’t serve any function except the

self-important trips that they get on or whatever.