Transcript of Andrea Shea King Show on BTR with Charles Kerchner December 30, 2010

8/7/2019 Transcript of Andrea Shea King Show on BTR with Charles Kerchner December 30, 2010

1/46

Transcript of Andrea Shea King Show on BTR with Charles KerchnerDecember 30, 2010

Ellipses indicate undecipherable content.

Link to audio: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/askshow/2010/12/31/the-andrea-shea-king-show.mp3

Intro ends at 45 seconds. Andrea Shea King (ASK) is the host.

After preliminary intro waffle, she plays some audio from a Peter Boyle show.

1.13 PB clip commences:

Barack Obama has lived almost 50 years without leaving any footprints, none, there is no Obamadocumentation, there's no bona-fides, there's no paper trail, there's nothing. The original so called vault

copy birth certificate's never been released; Lawyer's fees are estimated about $200,000 on this. A birth

certificate is about 15 bucks.

The certification of live birth that has been released is counterfeited, it's amended. The certification of

live birth was released that's also counterfeited and amendment (yes he does repeat this as though it's

two documents)

1.47: Obama - Dunham marriage license doesn't even exist. Obama. Dunham divorce decree was

released but it's laughable because they were never married. How can you divorce someone you never

married?

Noelani Kindergarden records, suppressed,

Soetero-Dunham marriage license has never been released,

Soetoro adoption records have not been released,

Franciscus Assis school application was released by Jerry Corsi,

Punahu School applications - missing,

Punahu School school records, not released,

Noelani 3rd grade records not released but then there's that weird picture.

Selective Service registration,

Social Security numbers released, State of Connecticut,

Occidental College records not released,

Financial aid, not released,Passport not released, records were scrubbed by Obama's terrorism, and intelligence advisor,

2.42:

Columbia College records not released,

Harvard College records not released,

Illinois Bar records not released

Baptism certificates not released,

Medical records not released, and it goes on...hang on...
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/askhttp://www.blogtalkradio.com/askhttp://www.blogtalkradio.com/ask


2/46

(Peter Boyle clip ends)

3.11 ASK: now that was Peter Boyles of KHOW. To our regular listeners you might recall that on Tuesday

night we played a segment of Peter Boyles show in which he interviewed Dr. Jerry Corsi and about

Obama's refusal to release any of his records... (plugs show, welcomes patriots)

3.33 The Us Supreme Court has declined to hear all arguments in a number of cases brought before it on

the question of Obama's eligibility to hold the office of President under article 2 section 1 of the U.S

constitution. Associate Justice Clarence Thomas admitted in a Congressional hearing earlier this year,

that the Supreme Court is, and I quote, evading the issue.

Well on the 14th, 15th and 16th of this month December 2010, Retired US Naval Commander Charles

Kerchner was an eye witness to a judicial lynching at the trial of a US Army Lt Colonel, who has served

for 18 years in uniform as a military physician, a fl ight surgeon to General George Casey's unit.

Lt Colonel Terry Lakin had, in the past, deployed to Afghanistan and Bosnia in a war situation. This

month, Lt Col Lakin was found guilty of disobeying orders and missing movement, after he announcedlast March that he could no longer follow orders because of his doubts about, and lack of evidence, of

Obama's Constitutional eligibility to act as Commander in Chief of the US military.

4.53 Lt Col. Lakin's trial took place at Fort Meade in Maryland, and in the view of many, the trial was a

sham, a judicial lynching. Lt Col Lakin now sits in a cell at Leavenworth Federal penitentiary, where he

was ordered to serve a six month sentence. He's been stripped of his rank, his pay, and his benefits.

Commander Kerchner has been a guest on this program several times, along with his attorney, Mario

Apuzzo to discuss a lawsuit that they had brought, in which they also demanded that Obama produce

proof that he did indeed fulfill the requirements to hold the Office of President. That case, along with

every other case that has been brought, seeking the truth about Obama's past, was thrown out withoutcomment.

It's been reported that Obama has spent approximately $2 million in legal fees to prevent his records

from seeing the light of day.

5.52 Since his lawsuit, Cdr Kechner has turned his attention to Lt Col Lakin's case. Commander Kerchner,

a man who takes seriously his oath to defend and protect the Constitution, who walks the talk and puts

it all on the line, as has Lt Col Terry Lakin, is with us tonight, to talk about his case, and the travesty of

justice that has been perpetrated upon Terry Lakin, and by default, every other service member who is

taking orders from a Commander in chief who refuses to prove he is not a usurper.

Cdr Kerchner, thanks for joining us again this evening, and welcome to the program.

6:35 CK: Glad to be here

ASK: It's nice to have you back again. Cdr K, I thought maybe we could start first with you explaining to

our listeners about your case before we move on to that of Lt Col Terry Lakin

CK: Well in er humph I've been er watching Obama cracking (or 'tracking'?) the scene and trying to find


3/46

out who he is since early 2008 and blogging actively since last week in July 2008 and increasingly, the

more I investigate the man the less I knew, er his whole identity is an enigma, but, by January of 2009,

seeing that the press didn't vet him, the DNC didn't really vet him, the voters had not had any - the real

knowledge about him of course elected him, and the Electoral College - most of them were hamstrung,

they had to vote the way the popular vote was, they didn't vet him, the Joint session of Congress didn't

vet him.

I had written dozens and dozens and dozens of letters to various Senators and Representatives asking

them to investigate, wrote to the President, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Vice President,

none of them even answered my letters, so at that point I, I just felt that I had to do something, I just

couldn't go, keep just sitting by and do nothing, and I decided to bring a lawsuit, er after the Joint

Session confirmed him, and before he was sworn in, and I looked for an attorney and found Mario

Apuzzo and retained him, he worked on a pro bono basis, and I found some other, through the help of

some volunteers, some other co-plaintiffs, and we brought the lawsuit in January 2009 and the last 22

23 months it's worked its way through the court system and at every level of the court system they er

they, they declined to hear the case on the basis of standing and no citizen has the right under the

Constitution even the 9th Amendment to defend the Constitution in other words we're supposed to

have unalienable rights, er, due process, and er the rights of equal protection clause they investigatedMcCain (as to the?) question of citizenship but they didn't investigate Obama I (unclear) I also sued

Congress, by the way, and er Nancy Pelosi, and Dick Cheney because they, they fraudulently and illegally

handled the Joint Session

9.12 not calling for the objections from each and every State, there are numerous charges but anyway it

finally worked its way up to the Supreme Court in September 2010 and er my petition was sent to them

on the 30th of September and er, they just denied to hear it, no comment. They, you know, and we had

asked that the two Supreme Court Justices Kagan and Sotomayor recuse themselves because an obvious

conflict of interest, not even the appearance of a conflict of interest because their very jobs depended

on the legitimacy of the President er the Putative President Obama, to make the appointments and er

their salary their whole career their whole livelihood on that Bench was on the line with my case,so...they should have recused themselves but they didn't

10.06 and there, er, my, I think there is a reason, and the reason is, was 9 Justices er conferencing on

whether to take a petition and go forward to a hearing, you need 4 to move forward and 5 to win in the

hearing, and with 7, if those 2 had recused themselves, you only needed 3 to move forward, you know,

one less than the majority, and 4 to win the case and...

ASK: Huhmmm

CK: and I think they didn't recuse themselves because they knew, or suspected, that there could be

three Justices that would have voted to take my petition and and grant a hearing on it, so to guaruntee

it was, er was, er didn't get out of Conference, I believe they voted to, to be in there to make sure it

didn't get out of conference by requiring the rule of 4 instead of the rule of 3, and also to be able to

argue against taking it in conference because conferences are held in secret so we'll never know

11.02 but they should have recused themselves. In that case immediately before mine on the orders list

and immediately after mine... Kagan recused themselves in one of 'em and Sotomayor in the other, so,

and if the orders list was full of recusals by those two, because they have many, many conflicts, er, and

in my case they didn't, they didn't recuse themselves and they should have, they had a direct, er, we


4/46

cited the regulations in the Federal Court system that deal with ethics and recusals and they clearly

should have recused themselves, but they chose not to, they chose the unethical er stand to, to vote

and hear this in conference and, and obviously I don't know if they voted against it or not 'cause it's all

secret but it didn't get 4 votes to go forward and I'm sure those two didn't, didn't vote to hear the case, I

mean, (small laugh), obviously..I er (ASK tries to interject - unclear as they talk over each other)

12.05 ASK: It certainly seems that they gave themselves an excuse by er, not recusing themselves at that

point (unclear as CK interrupts)

CK: If the case was (clearly?) a loser or a dog of a case, why would you put your ethical reputation on the

line and not recuse yourself? They..I believe that ...the talk around the Supreme Court has been for a

long time, there has just been two or three Justices that wanted to take the cases but never could get 4.

Now here is a case where it's 7, they only needed 3, so I believe they knew this and that and that they

didn't recuse themselves because they knew they had to keep the rule of 4 in play and not let it slip to

rule of 3

ASK: Huhmmm. What do you make of Associate Justice Clarence Thomas stating in a er, earlier this year

in a Congressional Hearing that the Supreme Court is evading the issue?

12.54 CK: Well, I believe that that means, that in some of these conferences and some of the prior

cases...er which if you could be a fly on the wall in there, you would have heard them arguing, a few of

them arguing, or two or three of them arguing, to take this case, this is a Constitutional issue and we,

we've got to decide it, but they never could get the 4, see,

ASK:Huhmm

CK: So I personally think that Chief Justice Roberts has been the hold out on the er, quote, Conservative,

er, side of the court and he's been the one to...

ASK: (Interrupts) What makes you think so? What makes you think it's Roberts?

13.30 CK: I, it's just an instinct or a gut feeling, that he's a collegial guy, that er, he's, er, quite friendly to

Obama and that, and that, that meeting prior to the, er, er, Inauguration of Obama, when they, or was it

right after the Inauguration... the meeting in the conference room there, and, er I think Alito clearly

would have been a vote for the constitution here, and I think Thomas was, I think Scalia was too, and I er

and I, if I had to pick of where i was gonna get the 3 votes for sure it would be, I would be picking Alito,

Thomas and Scalia and Roberts is just a question mark in my mind and I think he's always been the

holdout on the 4th vote,

14.22 now with 7 there you only need 3 and I think that's why the other two Justices appointed by

Obama didn't recuse themselves, if they knew the case was going to go down cause they couldn't,

couldn't get 4, I'm sorry couldn't get 3 rather, they they wouldn't have bothered to hear the, to stay in

the conference, they would have recused themselves. It's just, if you look at the rules of the court,

there's a reason they chose to take the unethical posture of not recusing themselves, there had to be a

reason, and I think the reason was, the law clerks talked to each other in the Supreme Court, and I think

that the word got around that there was 3 Justices leaning to vote for this petition of Kerchner Vs

Obama and Congress. Why else would two Justices sully their reputation with an obvious conflict of

interest and not recuse themselves if they, if they were not needed for, to defeat the case in


5/46

conference?

15.22 ASK: And you went in there very confident. You and your attorney, Mario Apuzzo went into this

very confident that you had a case. You were bringing forward a case..that...with arguments that

nobody else had made, and so as a result, you, you felt that, going into it, that you probably had a better

chance than anybody had, of er, of getting this case heard, or at least considered, by the er, by the

Supreme Court

CK: Well, the case was brought at a judicially right time, after the political process was done, that is, the

Joint session had confirmed, illegally in my opinion, confirmed the er, Obama, and prior to him being

sworn in so we were suing the President Elect, a private person at that point, and we you know, felt the

D.O.J shouldn't have been defending him in the first place, he should have been using his private lawyer.

He didn't,

16.14 anyway it was filed at a judicially right time, you know, they all were saying before you are suing

the Secretary of State, that's a (?) you assume prior (?) the election is over so it's moot he may not win

the election, you know or it's not, it's premature he may not win the election and if you sued him after

he took office then they would say to you, like they did in one of the Taitz cases, you should have filedthis before he was sworn in, so in other words, other people didn't include Congress or they said

Congress is the culprit here, when Congress is not before us, so we, we had everything covered, in the

arguments and we also brought in the fact that McCain was given a Hearing and the er Obama was not,

the request (?) of people and that's unequal protection under the law, lack of due process, so, and the

fact that I had written all these letters and not received even an answer,

17.12 but we argued this case very well, my attorney was very...very well laid out case, all the way up

through the Federal system, we didn't skip any steps. Some other cases skipped the appeal process, the

appeals court in the circuit and went directly to the Supreme Court and the Supreme court just threw it

right back down and said no, you can't skip the steps.

You see, so we did everything right all the way up, and I, in my heart still believed the Supreme Court

was not corrupted or rotted from the inside out. I thought if they got the proper case and we gave them

the proper case, based on the fact that he, he, he, he was not a natural born citizen because his father

was not a US citizen,

ASK: Right

CK: and we also argued on the fact that he had not conclusively proven he was born in Hawaii, because

being born a US citizen is a necessary but not sufficient condition to be a NBC, you have to be born in

the country of two US citizens, and his father was not a US citizen, not an immigrant, not even a

permanent legal, not even a legal permanent resident of the United States, he didn't even have a green

card he was a, he was here on a student visa

18.20 So, I thought that if we got the right case to the SC that we you know would be heard, but I was

wrong, and I was particularly encouraged when we believed that the two Justices would recuse

themselves and we'd be dealing with 7 and therefore needed only 3 to go forward, but the ethics were

thrown aside and the two Justices voted anyway and the rule of 4 has taken place and it's the same old

story, in my opinion, looking at all the facts over time, we just cannot get the 4 votes in that, in that SC,

because I think Chief Justice Roberts is the holdout on the conservative side.


6/46

They are all afraid of the potential for violence if they, if his, if his constitutional eligibility would be

vetted, that somehow certain minority groups would riot and cause trouble, and you know, civil unrest. I

never believed that. That's, that's an insult to the minorities of this country, that if the constitution was

being upheld and the SC said, that he was, and if they vetted him and they said that the definition of a

NBC is that both parents had to be citizens and you be born in the country and obviously his father isn't

so therefore he's not ineligible, that the rule of the Constitution is the glue that holds this country

together, I don't, I believe very few people would have been causing trouble on purpose

19.45 and the rule of law would have applied and instead we have a situation where the rule of law is

totally gone, we're not, the, the Constitution has been made meaningless by the SC refusing to do its job

and we're headed probably for an even worse situation in this country than, than what would have

happened if the rule of law would have been applied early on, you know, why didn't they apply it in the

Primary? I mean some people would have been upset if he was disqualified 'cause he, but that's what

the constitution eligibility clause is and it should have been applied.

ASK: Yeap, Yeah. Now concurrent with your case, your case went to, ah, went to trial, well not trial but

went to, before the SC, ah, what month was it?

CK: September 30th...2010 and that's when it was submitted, and then it got put on the docket, and

then let's see, ...they had 30 days for the other side to reply and they chose not to reply and then on

November 22nd in private conference with, there's nobody in, no notes or anything, they decided the

case, the petition whether they were going to hear it or not, but we didn't learn until the orders came

out on the 29th, and 29th we learned that it was denied with no comment.

21.00 ASK: OK so (they talk over eachother) Pardon me, I'm sorry I didn't hear what you just said.

CK: I said it was denied with no comment. They don't have to give a reason they just said denied

ASK: Right, right. Well, well concurrent now with that, now was also the trial of Lt Cl Terry Lakin, and er,we know... (CK interrupts)

CK: He was inside the military pursuing the same question

ASK: Huhmm, and when did you become aware of Commander, er Lt Col Tery Lakin's er, case?

CK: I think it was around March that I learned that a doctor in the military was er, a Lt Col and a docter,

was questioning the constitutional eligibility. That's March of 2010, questioning the eligibility of the

President in that he was frustrated and... unable to get answers and I didn't know all the details of how,

how much he was trying to get answers until the actual trial a couple of weeks ago.

22.05 But I did learn that he was frustrated to the point he was going to disobey orders of the 30,000

men slated(?) to go to Afghanistan which comes...to deploy troops in a foreign country, especially in a

time of war, the President must sign off on those orders. You know they can move troops around inside

the United States all they want, the Pentagon can or whatever, the President doesn't get involved with

that, but when you deploy troops to a foreign z..er war zone and like you remember at that speech at

West Point the President was talking that he was gonna increase the troops in Afghanistan, that 30,000

men were going to be surged over there, and he signed off on which units would be, would be sent over

there and Lt col Lakin was going to be sent over there with one of those units. So this was a direct order


7/46

coming down from a, a putative President that Lakin and I too believe was illegal. So, he decided he was

not gonna obey that order because his er his, his prime directive was it's important to defend the

Constitution, that's his oath and er he didn't believe Obama was legal, under the constitution, and er

that therefore the orders he was issuing were were unlawful,

23.08 unlawful as being judged against the Constitution, so I ... (ASK tries to interrupt) I heard about it

ASK: And he's not the only military man, active duty, who erm has challenged Obama. I believe, er,

Major Stephan Cook was er also one of the military who challenged it.

CK: Right

ASK: Correct?

CK: Correct that was one of the plaintiffs that, er or defendants I guess, that Orly Taitz had, anyway he

they, they dealt with him simply by cancelling his orders...and he did also lose his job as a result of that.

They used some dirty tricks in the background after he er, they got his orders cancelled they got civilian

employer who had contracts with the military and they said well if you keep this guy on your payrollyou're not going to get any more contracts

23.59 ASK: Yeeah, yea. Obviously, this is, this is a big, ah, conspiracy, a cabal, to prevent Obama's

records from being shown to the American people.

(They talk over each other)

CK: Let's call it a plan...the conspiracy word is loaded. It's a plan, they have a plan, they had a plan to put

this man in office, er it's been in the works for many many years and it's planned to keep him there and

he's not legally eligible for the Office.

ASK: Um. When you found out about Lt Col Lakin, erm, and your case was er, dismissed, erm how did

you get involved with Lt Col Lakin's case?

CK: Well, I was, I had my own case and I was 110% involved with that, and I wasn't paying a lot of

attention to his case, other than just following it in the news.

I had deliberately tried to stay out of other cases, er on purpose.

25:00 It was a tactical strategic decision of mine, to, to prosecute my case, and stay, stay out of the

other cases. but after my case lost, er, I, I guess I gotta go back to the original beginning - I, I felt called

to bring forward my lawsuit. I felt, I was like, in turmoil for 2 weeks before I did it, because I felt I was

being called to do this. You know, someone's got to do something, you just can't let, all the other cases

have gone down the drain, and someone's gotta step forward, and when I filed it, after that, all that

torment went away, I felt at peace that I was doing something, and again after my case was denied, and

I saw Lt Col Lakin going to Court Martial down there, I just felt like a, er, a fellow soldier...rhetorically - I

was in the Navy - er, he was a soldier, er, I just felt, again, called, that I had to go down there, and do,

and do my best to try and help him.


8/46

26.06 So, that's what I did. When my case was denied, I, let him know that I, I would be available to

(advise?) I never spoke to him directly, I never met him until I got down to the CM, but, that I would be

willing to come down and do what I can to speak out to help him

ASK: H hmmm h hmmm

CK: That's what I did, I, I, I, er a friend of mine er helped do the driving and we drove down to Fort

Meade and er to observe and also to speak out if the opportunity was presented to us with the media

down there, er the travesty of this whole thing, that he was living up to his oath and risking everything,

and he was denied discovery in the preliminary hearing in September, denied the ability to call

witnesses to er validate his er, his er, his his his beliefs in the oath and that the oath is the prime

directive and the chain of command goes all the way back to the President it doesn't stop at the

Pentagon like, like Judge Lind tried to, to, Judge Lind determined that the orders came from the

Pentagon and didn't go back to the President for a (or 'that') deployment and that's false

27.14 they, the deployment orders for foreign deployment go back to the President. All authority in the

military comes down from the President, even the authority that convening Court Martial comes down

through the chain of command from the President and he was not allowed to present any evidenceabout the chain of command going back to the President, and er and discovery of documents, and, and

even worse, at that point in the hearing...Judge Lind declared that the orders he disobeyed are

presumed legal. So in other words when he went into the actual CM, they were told, the panelists were

told, that the orders he disobeyed were presumed legal, when, if the whole basis of the orders were

unconstitutional, that was the question.

28.03 Are they really legal, because he's not, he's a putative President who wasn't constitutionally

eligible to sit in the Office and give those orders.

ASK: (laughs) Talk about...(CK talks over her)

CK: When you get to the CM and you're told your orders are presumed legal the, the just...the panel has

to accept that fact stated by the Judge. how in the world can he win?

ASK: You can't, you can't and he (CK talks over her) and he was not allowed to...

CK: (unclear)...those orders were not legal in the first place, to go to Afghanistan, so

ASK: Right. Right. They, they, they cut him off at the pass is what they did (CK talks over her)...

CK: It was a kangaroo court he got to the CM and it was a Kangaroo court, there's no way anybody could

have walked out of there without going to jail because the Judge decided the preliminary hearing, no

discovery, no witnesses as to the facts of the merits of what he was arguing, bringing up that his oath as

being the prime directive and he wanted the question answered, is Obama eligible under the

Constitution therefore his orders are lawful, or is he not

29.01 and, and she said you're not going to get even a chance to investigate or ask those questions, and

we're just going to declare the orders are presumed legal, presumed legal, presumed, so are we fighting

a presumed war with presumed bullets, I mean, presumed legal, that was the whole, the legality of the

questions was the whole basis of why he questioned the order


9/46

ASK: Yeap, yeap. Tschhh Let's take it from the top here. (oh god please no) You um, you said that you

and a friend drove down to Fort Meade to be there for the trial (CK talks over her).

CK: A combat veteran of Vietnam by the way, he was he was ... you know he had the bullets flying

around over there...I never got in with it myself, but...he was a, he drove a tracked vehicle in the rice

paddies, so he's seen action and he was standing up for his country too, to support, to support Lt Terry

er Lt Col Terry Lakin, he wanted to go down there and show his support.

30.01 ASK: When you arrived, when you first arrived, um, you were er checking in to see if there was

any Military housing available for you?

CK: That's right (ASK talks over him)

ASK: This, again I believe the hand of god is, is involved here, it's it's just, it's just too much to be all

coincidence, because here we drive several hundred miles down to the, a couple of hundred miles down

to the, Fort Meade, and uh, you know, we stop along the way, and had a little something to eat or

whatever, and we get there and we can't find the building and we're driving around, er, we finally figureout where the check-in building is, and we go in there, and at the exact instant, I...go in, I declared my

name, took my I.D card out and I asked I said that I had called down to make reservations but they said

none were, they weren't taking reservations but if we showed up around 4 O'Clock, er we'd be able to

give you a room if there was one available. I just walked in, ID, Commander Kerchner, just told them

exactly what I just told you. Now, there weren't any rooms but just at that exact instant in time a

gentleman was leaving the building

31.15 and he heard me say 'Commander Kerchner' and I (unclear) to see if there was a room, and he

stopped over there, and after I turned around with my friend to walk out, he says to me, 'Commander

Kerchner', and I said yes, and I looked... and I recognized him, and I says Terry!

There he was, Lt Col Terry Lakin was checking out of that building. Where he was staying at the base I

don't know but that's the building he checked in and checked out was like the central booking building

at the exact instant in time that I'm trying to get a room or just two people our paths cross in the

universe, and we are the two people who had the most recent, high profile cases suing the Pres..hhumf,

you know dealing with the President's eligibility.

If I would have arrived a couple of minutes sooner, or a couple of minutes later, I would never of met

him, it was just, how, how bizarre, you know, if I wouldn't have stopped on the way down, to have a

little bite to eat, or if I would have, if I'd have been able to find a building immediately as I say the gate

guard would have gave me great directions. It's just that everything stacked up and I just walk in there,

say my name and he happens to be leaving the building and he hears my name and he stops and waits

for me and he introduces himself and he says it's an honor to meet me, and I say it's an honor to meet

me? It's an honor to meet you. You're the one risking everything, you know?

32.39

CK:

and we came down here to support you! I introduced my friend and he's, they were talking there a bit

and he said I think we'd better step outside because the gentleman who, who helped us find the

building had come in to show us where to, where the, he was trying to, he turned out to be on the CM


10/46

panel the next day, and Terry, Terry had sort of detected that he probably was and he felt that we

should step outside and go in his car and talk, so that there wouldn't be any danger of uh, you know,

impropriety there or whatever.

ASK: Right (she mmm's' throughout, uttering the occasional low level 'right' as he talks)

CK: So we went out in his car and turned, turned the car on 'n he, you know, sittin' there, and we're chit

chatting and again he's pleased to meet me and honored to meet me, I'm telling him I'm honored to

meet you...you know, you're the one risking everything, 'n uh, somewhere in there he says, uh, did you

guys eat yet, did you, why don't you come out to my house, you know, we can talk more out there

33.30 So he, we, we didn't wanna impose, because it's the day before the trial, we thought he had

things to do... things getting ready for the trial, maybe speak with his lawyer or whatever...so, but he

insisted, so we said OK, we'll come out, so we went er, to get our commercial lodging taken care of and

as soon as we did that, off base lodgings 'cause there wasn't anything on the base, er, we then went out

to Terry's house and, he lives, you know, er, about 35 miles from the base, and we met him and his

family and er talked about the pending CM and he was upbeat and still he knew he'd be punished

because the deck was stacked against him, but he wasn't defeated, he was, he said, he still believes inthe constitution and he, that he thinks he did the right thing, and, er, maybe a coupla the steps were

made legally in the sense of the orders to report to the his commanding officer for counseling, he's, in

hindsight he probably should have obeyed that order because that one didn't go back to the President

it's one the one about being deployed that did.

34.36 But er he, you know, he, kind of maybe misunderstood his initial counselors advice, and er so he

knew, he knew he had made a few mistakes tactically along the way, but he was still opti, up-beat and

optimistic. So there was the hand of god out there (ASK tries to interrupt) in that we met accidentally, I

had never met him before, never spoken to him on the phone, never had emailed him at all, it just,

bizarre, there I go down to support him and I run into him on the base, and that's a huge base, I don't

know, it's about 5,000 acres

ASK: Right. Well that's called a divine appointment (laughs)

CK: Yes!

ASK: Yeah, a divine appointment. Erm, So you met him, you had a chance to sit in his home with him,

and get to know him

CK: Yes (while she's still talking)

ASK: and his wife and he was upbeat, he was optimistic, (Kerchner talks over her saying what sounds like

'real ? children') he was realistic about what he was facing

CK: H hmmm

35.26 ASK: Pardon... (they talk over each other)

CK: Children...beautiful children, you know, I have grand kids about the same age, and er, it's a beautiful


11/46

family, sm, you know, middle class home in the suburbs, and er, his wife's supportive of his decision and,

everything was, looked fine I mean we knew there were going to be difficulties next days, you know,

getting, he kind of, I , I kind of thought he, he detected that he might not be might not be dismissed

from the army because he thought his new attorney was pretty sharp, 'n er, but he would get punished

for some of the things he did and might have to do some time, and and er in prison for it, maybe or

whatever, but he was still upbeat

36.05 ASK: So, when you left his house that evening, ahm, it was with a sense that, you know, things

were going to be, er, not go smoothly the following day, but they would at least go fairly, maybe

CK: Right. He thought he, thought that er, he had a chance of getting across the message er er of of why

he did this, and that, and that, n...

ASK:H hmmm

CK:and that he still believes in the constitution and and what he did and we felt like kindred souls talking to

each other, we talked for about two and a half hours, him my friend and his wife and him, 'n the kids

were, the kids were all aware of what their daddy was standing up for, I, i tried to not talk in front of the

kids and I said at one point do the kids know what's happening, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they do, so

ASK:, How old are the children?

CK: Well let's see now, about, mmmm, say, what's, what's 6th grade, how old would a girl be in 6th

grade

ASK: Mmmmm, probably about ten or 11 years old maybe (CK talks over her)

CK: 10 or 11 maybe, and then there was another one about, I would say 8, or, or 7, and another one

about 2, so er, maybe 2 or 3

37.11 but they're nice kids, Christian home, er, Pili is a very, er, devout, low key, calm quiet type person,

they, they got Pizza, we had a little, you know, they treated us all to pizza there, and a little wine and

pizza, two and a half hours we, we we (can't make word out) about everything 'n like I say, it was like

kindred souls, talking to each other. We both knew we were, we believed in, in god, we bel... in the oath

...at the end you say so help me god, we both believed that we were living up to the oath to the best of

our ability so help us god, we, we didn't take our oaths as just words, like I guess some people think it's a

ritual, you just, you know, do this ritual and say these words, that's part of, whatever, being a, being a

senator or joining the military, it doesn't mean anything after that, that's what some people think.

38.06 Both of, Terry and I took, take that oath seriously. Different, and we could tell that.

ASK: Yes, yes. Alright, so take us to the following morning, when you arrive at the ahm, at the CM, tell,

paint, paint a word picture for us, Wh, wh, what did you see when you arrived?

CK: Well we arrived very early, it was very cold and windy, and er, they wouldn't let anybody in the


12/46

building early, so there was a line there and everybody was freezing cold, you know, and er, they waited

till the last, the last er, ... it was 8;30 they opened the doors I believe, and the trial, the CM started at

nine, so we were all there shivering, and you know open the door, let us come in and get warmed up,

but they finally opened up the doors and you had to go through the metal detectors and the wands and

you know, stand a certain way, just like the airport drills they're doing right now... stand with the hands

out. They, they were, the er, military police there or court bailiffs, whatever they were, and security,

there were police cars everywhere, they had er half the (can't make word out) on that ? blocked off so

you couldn't bring any vehicles close to the entrance of the court

39.22 er, I don't know what they were thinking, like somebody would, you know, whatever, I mean they,

they, we, somebody, some soldier told the one person that they were told that we could be potentially

violent, I mean hhuh, we're peace loving constitutional people, it's the other side that's, that's been

always been the one introducing violence into this issue as exampled by the (can't make this out???)

union goons, beating up people at er, at the town hall meetings er, you know last August, but er, a year

before (can't make this out???) but er, um, anyway, they, they were very apprehensive of, of us and er,

we all got in there eventually er, and I looked around the courtroom and I wanted to figure out if it was

full, it was packed, so I said, I wonder how many people are here, so I counted all the seats, there was

60, right, there was, and it was declared by the court security, the bailiffs, or whatever you wanna call'em, er, in military uniforms, that they were going to admit any other people on a standing room only

basis,

40.30 and er, there were people standing around the walls, mostly in most cases the military got up and

gave their seats er, to people who wanted to sit down, but there also was a closed circuit camera to feed

to another room, and, so I don't know how many people were in the other room the first day, if there

were any, or or if that was full, I don't know. There was also press outside that never got into the room,

er, er they were out there, there... we saw them at lunchtime, they were freezing (laughs), but er, the

room was packed, and er at 9 O'clock, it's the, you know, all rise, and the the Judge comes in, so, there

were, we, we quickly learned before we, that there were a few...of the classic Obots there too, there

was ah, maybe about 3 or 4 of them, and er, 2 for cer for sure but the vast majority of the people werethe patriots there to support Lakin

41. 27 ASK: Huhmmmmm. So then what happened, Ah, Also I, I noted that Reverend Manning was there

as well and you may know that er (he talks over her)

CK: He didn't get there the first day. Reverend Manning showed up (she talks over CK) on the second

day. I believe, I believe it was either the first day in the afternoon, or the second day, I'd have to check

my notes as to exactly, he wasn't there in the morning though, but anyway uhm, his (entrance ?), it was

interesting, er OK well, let's go through the trial here a little bit. So they all rise, and we learn that er, Mr

Puckett is speaking that that Terry is gonna plead guilty to the first count of disobeying orders, basically

the charges were broken down to disobeying orders as one count and missing movement as the other

and, ah, the disobeying orders part er that he was gonna plead guilty to, so I think what happened is,

that Terry kinda knew there was gonna be some kind of er plea bargaining, or whatever you want to talk

about, but he didn't know the extent of things, and I think he probably didn't meet a lot with Neal prior

to the actual trial starting, probably the fir... I saw, I saw Terry go in earlier, er, they left him in but the

other people had to stand out in the cold, but they left him in because he's part of the court process,

you know

42.46 so the lawyers got in and the Judges and the bailiffs and all that, so he was in there, he was


13/46

probably meeting with his lawyer and they...I get the feeling after the fact that, that er, that Neal

Puckett (NP after this) didn't spend a lot of time briefing his client as to what was going to happen till

the actual day of the events, but anyway, they decided to plead guilty to the, to the er disobeying orders

and the rest of the morning was spent, basically, for hours the judge kept going over with Terry, do you

know what you're doing, do you agree with this, this whole like the Miranda rights are you giving up all

your rights to a defense here on these charges of disobeying orders, do you fully understand this, do you

know what the maximum penalty could be, 18 months in the, in er in prison, you know, er. So, that was

the whole morning, er going o, just... going over all the details of pleading guilty to those, to those

charges.

43.44 So er, at that point, er, they go then, to the er, to the next count, which is missing movement

which they pleaded not guilty to, and then, then of course you've got to get into the, er, the voir dire

part, er, they, they, they they bring in the panel then, and they, they had 10, and they ask 'em a bunch

of questions, and er, eliminated two of 'em, and then they started the CM on, erm the the prosecution

put on, er, their, their their case and that was the rest of the day, and they made of course Lt Col Lakin

look like the worst soldier that ever that ever served in the army er, ah, so (ASK interrupts) so that was

the rest of the day, that's what the...the prosecution rested their case, so, if you have any specific

questions about what went on, what wet on in the prosecution's case I'd be happy to answer 'em

44.45 ASK: Well I wanna know...er, the prosecution, did they, were they, first of all, were these

seasoned JAG officers, or, or, how (he talks over her)

CK: No they were more junior. The original JAG officer that was assigned to Lt col Lakin's prosecution, er

he, you may remember in the preliminary hearing, he, he at one point, had told one of the constables or

bailiffs there that er that if Terry doesn't behave himself tazer him, do you remember that?

ASK: Yes, yes I do

CK: That guy, that guy was removed from the team, he was the, uh I guess the lead prosecutor, er I think

he was a major, but I'm not positive, or a Lt Cl, but he was removed from the, from the case because of

that and i understand her got er some sort of disciplinary action, er I don't know a letter or something in

his file but he...I heard down there at the trial that he had decided to leave the military. So, the original

prosecutor was off the case and the new team were all younger people erm

45.56 I, I believe there was a Captain and one very young Major...2 males and one female, and we didn't

think they were doing a very good job, because we thought that Neal Puckett was going to - they didn't

address the Constitution at all, as far as why, Lt Col Lakin after 18 years of, of honorable and exemplary

(he did say it this way) service, would, would refuse an order to deploy to Afghanistan, when he had

been there before and he'd been to Bosnia in combat zone and has been decorated! So we thought that,

well they can, they can do all they want, but Neal Puckett's a very experienced lawyer and he's gonna,

he's gonna basically er clean their clocks (ASK talks over him)

ASK: Bring that out

CK: Yeah, in the defense section, but boy, were we surprised about Neal, huh

46.48 I mean, when they, when the prosecution rested at the end of the first day they had, er, they had

er basically called a whole bunch of witnesses including the commanding officer, to just, testify to the


14/46

fact that, er, that Terry was, er supposed to report to Fort Campbell that he had er acquired plane

tickets to go down there 'n then he didn't show up for the plane, and that was the basis of missing

movement but he also on his orders could have driven down there by privately owned vehicle, so er in

the cross examination, Neal kept er hitting on this that Terry didn't go did not take that plane, he didn't

miss the movement of the unit, of the military unit, he just missed flying down on a plane, and he could

of also drove down or taken a bus down, so a legal technicality type defence that, that, that he, that he

had the option of getting anywhere he was ordered, anyway he could, to get to Fort Campbell, so to

charge him for missing movement by not being on that plane was not, was not legal,

47.58 but erm, in the end they convicted of him anyway, but that was the, the the the prosecution was

trying to show that he had a duty to be on that plane and er the cross examination was, well he didn't

have duty to be on that plane, he had a duty to report to Fort Campbell he just re, he didn't disobey

orders to report to Fort Campbell even though he pleaded guilty to that he had a duty to be on that

plane, because he could have, if he was gonna report to Fort Campbell he could of drove down with a

private vehicle because that was allowed on those orders, or he could have taken a bus, so they, ... so

basically the missing movement charge was piled on by the government, they already got him to plead

guilty to disobeying orders, and he did that because he was telling the truth because he did disobey the

orders and he had no way of defending himself as to the reason why - they would not allow discovery,or witnesses, and they had, the the the judge, said, to the, to the to the, er to Lakin's attorney and to

everybody in, er, that was in the panel or in the courtroom, that the orders are presumed legal.

49.07 You know, so that says if the orders are presumed legal, he disobeyed 'em, so he pleaded guilty to

that

ASK: Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh. He, now, now, er we're talking with Cdr Charles Kerchner, US Navy retired,

who himself had brought a case, er er challenging Obama's records, and er, it wasn't heard by the, it

went all the way to the Supreme Court, and er attended the CM of Lt Cl Terry Lakin, who now sits in a

cell at Fort Leavenworth federal penitentiary. Erm, ah, Commander Kerchner, Terry Lakin had twoattorney's. He had a civil attorney, to begin with, Paul Jensen, ah, what was the story with that... wh wh

why was he removed from the case?

CK: All I know is, is what I heard, I don't really know why for sure, but uh, when he, at the preliminary

hearing when all means of defense were removed, the er, ability to gain discovery of documents, to er

call witnesses to defend Lt Cl Lakin's decision to, to consider the officers oath his prime directive and to

judge all orders as to whether they were lawful against the constitution which is the fundamental law of

the land, it's not just a piece of parchment paper on display in Washington, that's the fundamental law

of the land and all orders, a military officer is supposed to be able to, have the intelligence to question

whether the order is lawful against criminal law, but also the constitutional law the law of the land.

50.49 If a, if an order is unconstitutional, you're not supposed to be, to obey it. That support and defend

the constitution is the only thing you're required to do by oath, but anyway, once, once Jensen was not

able to get discovery, or be able to call witnesses, or put up any kind of defense at all, on the

constitutional basis, it was strictly a matter of mitigating damages, in, in under the UCMJ as to how

much time he was gonna be able to do, er be, be sentenced to, and with the judge saying that the

orders are declared presumed legal, er, at that point, i believe Terry Lakin and his advisors, er decided

that it was best to get a UCMJ expert at this point to try to mitigate the amount of time that he would

be spending in prison, and Paul Jensen has no experience at all that I know of, with the, with the military


15/46

law, so at some point, er a decision was made to hire another attorney who was a UCMJ expert. Now I, I

would have thought that Paul Jensen could have stayed in as part of the team but for whatever reason

he didn't, but, now the question I have in my mind is how did they get to Neal Puckett? How, did, how,

like the two balls er, the balls in motion, the people in motion ... that, that, that Terry and I met there

accidentally at the, er, Fort Meade...billets, lodging building.

52.19 Who introduced him to Neal Puckett and how did that come about? Er, I was, I heard he was at

some kind of a fund raising dinner, and er, that Neal was introduced to Terry or Terry was introduced to

Neal and, on the basis that's Neal's this high powered successful lawyer, well known, erm, military law

attorney, and er, he, he, you know maybe he can help you, he can, he can er, really do a much better job

than Paul Jensen on this could now at military law that's that's the prime er concern here and the

constitutional issues were not going to be allowed. So, how did, was that an accident? Was that a

coincidence? Was it arranged? Who arranged it? I of, I wondered about that after I saw the case ended,

because when we get to the second day, after the def, after the prosecution rested on the first day, the

second day we get to the, the er, defense, the first thing Neal does, is rests. He doesn't even put up a

defense.

53.25 ASK: He rested? He rested the defense?

CK: Yes! He rested.

ASK: What a shock that must have been.

CK: Right, we were, I (she talks over him) in the the audience was like, looking around, woahwoah, rest?

He put on no defense at all.

ASK: What did Lt Cl Lakin do at that moment? Did he appear surprised?

CK: I think, I think he was briefed about this by Neal Puckett that this is what we were gonna do andwe're gonna make all our arguments during the sentencing phase, as to why you did this and everything,

and try but...if you know Lt Cl Lakin, he's a very humble er guy, he he, he was very unexpressive through

the whole trial. He just sat there. Er, (she talks over him)

ASK: Kind of meek?

CK (Says something like 'that's not the word I would choose' - I think he misheard it as 'weak')

ASK: Would you characterize him as meek?

CK: Yeah, he's a nurturer, he's a doctor, he, the military is, you look at the military, you think of warriors,

well, you know, certain people are alpha male warriors, but he's a doctor, he's not there to charge up

the hill with a bayonet, he's there to fix up the wounds after you've been injured charging up the hill

(laughs).

54.38 you know, he's a nurturing, kind, gentle man, that's, he's a doctor, and a very experienced doctor

with expertise in 3, 3 specialties. Ah, but anyway, so he just sat there and took all of this, and I think

that's part of the problem, when Neal Puckett put him on the stand in the sentencing phase he just

decimated this man, because this man, he's not a, he's not a, he's not a forceful person in a physical


16/46

intimidation type situation, that, that Neal Puckett presented to him not physical, verbal intimidation, er

but very forceful, er I'd call it interrogation of him during the sentencing phase. He just broke Lt Cl Lakin,

because Lt Cl Lakin is a very quiet, humble, humble man, he he's very strong in his convictions but yet in

his outward demeanor he's he's he's not a very forceful assertive person. I can't describe it, I don't know

if you know what I mean.

55.41 ASK: Yeah. He's mild mannered.

CK: Yeah, very, very humble, you know, very humble. He'll do anything for his for his soldiers, he was, he

was he was testified in the sentencing phase, how in a, and one of his character witnesses, that that he

would take his spare time over in Afghanistan, that he was trained in ah, as an osteopath, so he was

trained in manipulation and massage and he would, these pilots in these helicopters would come back

from action and they'd be all tensed up, and he would, even though he was off duty he would, he would

have his er massage table there, and and and give these people er, er er an osteopathic type, relaxation

type massage to rely to reduce their stress, so yea, yea, (she talks over him) but anyway...

ASK: But let me, let me get back... (he talks over her)

CK: ... the defense rested...It just shocked us

ASK: Yeah, yeah.

56.31 ASK: But before, before we get to that I wanna ask you, did the eligibility question ever come up

at all?

CK: Only, er, the prosecution showed the videotape that Safeguard our Constitution er, put up, you

know where, where Terry explained at Paul Jensen's office, they videotaped him explaining why he was

gonna disobey orders

ASK: Right and I think... (he talks over her)

CK: The prosecution used that to prove it was premeditated, that, that was there to show the the the

court martial panel, which is like, they're called the panel, it's like the jury, the members of the panel, er,

to show that er, that he planned this. That, that was their reason for showing that. And we were

shocked that the prosecution showed this 'cause when they, that particular video was very powerful.

That Terry Lakin in that video is the one I should have seen in the court room, but I didn't see it. He was,

he was humble and quiet all the time.

ASK: Ah, OK

CK: I think, I think his counselor told him to do that.

57.40 ASK: Now let's go to day 2, and day two, this was the, this was the day that the, the defense was

supposed to present it's case and his, the, Neal Puckett, the attorney for Terry Lakin, stood up and said

the defense rests.

CK: Exactly


17/46

ASK: So (he talks over her)

CK: And we were all shocked

ASK: So then what happened, after the shock, a shock wave must have just, you know, re...(he talks over

her)

CK: Yeah!

ASK: ...gone through the entire court room. What then? What happened then?

CK: Well, then the judge, er procedures and things are announced, and they go, they, they er, they, they

er, the panel has to go out and decide if he's guilty or innocent of moving, er missing movement and,

and er, they, they go out, and they deliberate, and they find him guilty. And then after that (she

interrupts)

ASK: I, I'm sorry, I want to jump in here because I, I want to add something here. You, you said, you said

in previous interviews that you learned that Lt Lakin had been questioning Obama's eligibility for over 2years.

CK: That's right.

ASK: And that he went, he really did go through chain of command and that, tell us, tell us what you

know about that.

58.51 CK: Well, there's a, there's a formal procedure to question the leadership in your chain of

command and that's called article one thirty eight, and he did that. He wrote letters to his elected

officials, he also, er, tried to avail himself of what soldiers in the military can do when they feel that

there's something is wrong and they need, er, they need help to get it resolved because the militarysystem is, is not helping them and it's called a congr a request for a congressional inquiry, he, he tried

that. They didn't even answer him for any of this thing, he just got, he just got no answers

'

ASK: So, not, not even from his elected representatives?

CK: No. None. Not no answers back, none. Same thing happened to me.

ASK: So he, he tried to use the, tried to get your elected representatives. No response, no nothing.

CK: No responses. Nothing

59.43 ASK: He, and then, and then he used a a (he talks over her)...

CK: And we found out why now because the Congress was told by that CRS Memo, you know? Basically

the fix was in. The congress wasn't gonna answer people that knew what they were talking about, and if

they could, if they thought they they could buffalo you they'd give you some nonsense answer but in the

case of myself and Lt Cl Lakin they did not answer us, we didn't even get a form letter


18/46

ASK: Ow, Wow. He, he ... (he talks over her)

CK: ...So I learned he had been fighting as long and hard as I had and got treated exactly the same way

inside the military as I was being outside. Total, total, no interest no response by the, the the elected

officials, in his case also the military, in my case, er, whoever I whoever I wrote to I didn't get an answer

and whoever he wrote to he didn't get an answer. They just (she talks over him) stonewalled

1.00:38 ASK: Let me ask you this. Do you know who the elected officials were, that he, ah, contacted,

that he tried to get help from?

CK: Er, I don't know their names, you'd have to contact er (she talks over him) ... his trusted (?) and his

advisers (?) He lived at Woodbine, Maryland so (she's still talking over him)

ASK: Maryland, right.

CK: Yeah, you could look it up who juris, who has the district of Woodbine Maryland

ASK: Right, right.

CK: But er anyway at certain points there were also (she talks over him)

ASK: And who were your, who were the elected of, who were the elected officials that you contacted,

that didn't respond to you either?

CK: Well, my Congressional Representative was named Charlie Dent, and er, he was a Republican, and

my Senator er Senator was er Arlen Specter. Now, there you go, Arlen Specter

ASK: There you go.

CK: Yeah right...

CK: but hes's on the judiciary committee,

ASK: Yeap, yeap

CK: he knew darn well what I was asking about, you know, he's a lawyer, you know, and the other one

was Senator Casey ...a Democrat, you know, I didn't expect anything back from him, but for Senator

Specter, a Republican, I thought he woulda answered me. He didn't!

1:01:47 CK:And I, and I wrote (she talks over him) I wrote to Senator McCain, never

answered me er, I wrote to er, I, I have a, I'll have to go the through the list, there's probably acoupla dozen of them, all the key er, leaders of the various committees. I wrote to thepeople, like you know, like Michelle Bachmann, all the people that you, that you thought would

be interested. Never got an answer. No answer. Everybody is (she mutters something)...people the letters I wrote were 5 pages letters, they were well documented as to everything I

had done to try to get this ...(she talks over him) this was prior to me suing, this was prior to mylawsuit I wrote these letters. I wrote to the President of the United States, I wrote to the Vice

President. Chairman of Homeland Security, er, Chertoff, Secretary, rather. So anyway Terry had


19/46

been doing the same thing, he'd been doing the same thing I just didn't know it. Everybody thinkshe just stood up arbitrarily March of 2010 and said, 'I'm not going to Afghanistan'. No, he had

spent a year and a half prior to that, trying to get the question answered, is Obamaconstitutionally eligible to be commander in chief. He didn't believe he was. (She interrupts)

1:03:00ASK:

And even his, even his own chain of command, his, his direct, er, er commander,and all the way on up, nobody answered him? What did they say? Shut up and do your job, or...

CK: I, I, to paraphrase it I think they just kinda shrugged and looked down, you know what Imean, like nobody wants to touch this with a ten foot pole like a hot potato.

ASK: Wauw.

CK: They gave him No. real. answer. The...if the, any kind of paraphrased type answer was

'can't help ya'. Know what I mean?

ASK:Hm hmmm

CK: Nobody wanted to touch it. He was like, pushed aside, like a, like boy this guy is, you knowwhoo, we don't wanna talk, we don't wanna be bothered with him, he, he, I think every body's

worried about their career, anybody who, anybody who would try to help him would go downwith him.

ASK: 01:03:53 So this means that the courts, the Congress, his State Legislators, the military,

the media, had closed off every avenue, that he had, for redress of grievance, here.

CK: Right

ASK: He had nowhere to go, he had, I mean they really boxed him in

CK: He looked at his oath and said, do I give up, or do I try to force the system to get attentionto this, by refusing my the orders by Obama who I consider to be an illegal President, and that's

what he chose to do, he basically fell on his sword to draw attention to the fact that we have anillegal President sitting in the office ordering 30,000 troops to go to Afghanistan

ASK: Agh, incredible, just incredible

CK: The man, in effect, well you want to say martyred himself to try to get some national

attention on this issue, because nobody was, was paying attention to him inside the military, hisrepres, elected officials in Congress, the people who are tasked to respond to congressional

inquiries filed by soldiers, didn't respond to him, didn't answer him.

1:05:02 That's the most shocking charge that I heard, that the requests for congressional

inquiries filed by a soldier were ignored


20/46

ASK: And not only that, but an Officer!

CK: Yeah! Ignored. Ignored. I think, this all goes to the basic conclusion, er Andrea, and is thatthey know the answer; they just don't want to face the truth. They all know that Obama is not

eligible, but nobody wants to step up to the plate and face the issue head on. That's why nobody

was answering anybody. They know the truth. They can't handle the truth

ASK: Ha! Gee I've heard that line before!

CK: Yes!

ASK: Jack Nicholson

CK: Yeah! (They both chuckle)

ASK:

CK: but anyway I just wanted to recount when you asked about, er Reverend Manning. You

know, he did arrive at a certain point, and I did notice that, wherever he sat there was theseconstables or bailiffs in military uniforms sitting to the left and right of him and as (?) pointed

out I also noticed there was always 3 sitting behind me, and, and er, I think they had certainpeople flagged, I think they knew who we were.

1:06:12 And er (she interrupts)

ASK: And they didn't want any trouble and (they talk over each other)

CK: Yeah we remarked (or were marked?) that we were potential trouble, but anyway, at one of

the recesses, these, a coupla these security people come in, and they drag Reverend Manning out,and charged him with trespassing. We find out a coupla hours later, he was, he was er, he was in,

in in incarcerated in an interrogation room, and he was interrogated and two people from hiscongregation with him were in separate interrogation rooms, and they were all, he's being

charged with trespassing, and trying to, they, he was a, he was a he, he his car was searched andhe was waved onto the gate by the guard he was granted permission to come onto the base, he

just went through, they said he went through the wrong gate, but he had come through the samegate the earlier, the day before in the afternoon, so that refreshed my memory I guess, he did get

there in the afternoon the first day, so he, he said that er, ...he told the truth, he told the truth (Ican't make this out) so hour after hour they were comparing the stories of all two of his

congressional, oh, not congress er congregational members that came with him and him, and, andthey all looked the same, you know. The car was searched, and they were waved through. They

did not trespass. They tried to get them him to sign statements, that er, whatever was in 'em, Idon't know, he refused to sign any statements, they finally after about 2 or 3 hours let them go

and he rejoined us in, in the courtroom

1:07:38 but he, he let it be noted that there's gonna be a, he's not gonna, he, his civil rights wereviolated. Now they were the only black er, attendees in the, in the gallery there supporting Lt Cl


21/46

Lakin, the only black people in the audience, patriots just like everybody else, and they weredragged out and charged with trespassing for, said they went in the wrong gate and were

therefore trespassing (she talks over him) the guard on that gate let them through, and therewere about a dozen other people in that room, white people, who weren't dragged out, who came

through the same gate with, the same day the same gate and the same guard searched their cars

and let them through. Er what kind of a system do we have, that he was targeted, I think, forthey new his name, and and and you know how he calls Obama long legged mack daddy and allthat and he's really very outspoken . I think he was targeted for harassment

ASK: Could be. That could very well be. (he talks over her)

1: 08:39 CK: I believe there was one, one bailiff watching me on the standing on the side

always eyeballing, every time I looked over he was looking at me, and these 3 guyssitting... they were waiting for me to do something, I think, to give them an excuse too, I don't

know. But er, that was really very, so the only people that were dragged out was ReverendManning and they were the three black people. Now w w w why? Why did that happen? They

accuse our side of the R word, right, but look at what they did, they took the three black peoplein the, in the gallery, who are patriots, and drag them out and interrogate them for two or 3

hours. What's going on with our country? (She talks over him) And also, during this recess, theythey accused us of, of being potentially violent, one of the, one of the Obots, who happens to be

a lawyer, and a military officer in the Marine Corps reserves assaulted me, you heard about that?

ASK: Assaulted you?

CK: Yes, assaulted me

ASK: No!

CK: Colonel Sullivan, didn't you hear the stories on the internet about Col Sullivan assaultingme (she talks over him)

ASK: Oh! Lt Col Dwight Sullivan, a Jag Lawyer? Yes I have. Why don't you (he talks over her)

explain that

CK: He's a full Colonel, I think, but, he was, during a recess, er, an attorney, by the name of er,William Bair (sp?) was debating him on the 14th Amendment, because they're always saying the

14th Amendment is one of the grounds that grants Obama natural born citizenship, that 'n theWong Kim Ark Case, they, they they er intellectually er dishonestly argue that those things are

granting natural born citizenship status to Obama, when there's nothing in the 14th Amendment.The word natural born isn't even in there.

1:10:20 but anyway he was debating this with er, with er, William Bair, and I was 2 rows away,

and I was overhearing this, and I just sorta leaned over the row a little bit and said, er, the wordsnatural born are not even in the 14th Amendment, and er, and he said something back to me and

I said well, well for you to keep arguing that the 14th Amendment grants natural borncitizenship, when, when the words natural born aren't even in the 14th Amendment is


22/46

intellectually dishonest, and at that point, he blew his cork. He got up, he got up out of his chair,face was red, started quickly moving down the row, er, you know how in a movie theatre you

have to move round peoples knee, like, because the rows are tight, that's how it was, he almosttrampled over two women, to get to the side isle, and er, he's yelling, Sir! Sir! Sir! all the way, er

and my row was empty towards the, towards the wall so I, I moved over there because this guy

was coming at me hot 'n heavy, and, yelling sir, sir, sir, and he ran up to me - did you ever seethe movie Full Metal Jacket?

1:11:28 ASK: Yes!

CK: How theMarine Corps drill instructors stick their face right in your face and then try to break down the

recruits did you ever see that movie or another movie where they do that?

ASK: Ya (he talks over her)

CK:He came...running up to me full bore, in a physically intimidating, threatening manner, faceflushed red, I mean, bristling, a Marine Colonel, you know with a high 5 haircut, an' all that, and

he stuck his face right in my face and said 'You will NOT call me dishonest!', and you know I'mstanding there and I'm like 'hey, this guy's not gonna intimidate me!' So I just looked him right

back in the eye, I mean I, 33 years in the Military, a Commander, er, led men in the military, ledmen in civilian life, I practiced in the martial arts, the mixed martial arts, Judo, Taekwondo, I've

dealt with physical confrontations many, many, many times, and also with angry people,whatever, I, this guy's not going to intimidate me, I know, I,

I said to myself, 'I know what you're trying to do, you're trying to eyeball me and make me, andmake, and intimidate me, you couldn't win your (the?) debate so you're just trying to physically

intimidate me

CK: So i just stared him right back in the eye, 'nd he was toe to toe, eyeball to eyeball, and I saidback to him, 'I did not call you dishonest' I called you intellectually dishonest

ASK: laughs

CK: but when this happened, he came running up to me with these constables or bailiffs going

hho ho ho ho (note, not 'laughing', something else) you know, like somethings coming down andthey were watching, just watching, and this happened all about 30 or 50 seconds and um, and and

he said, er I said, er, I called you intellectually dishonest, and he sez, I'm not, I'm not dishonest,and I said well you are when you, when you apply the 14th Amendment, er, er against ? natural

born citizen and he says, 'I never said that' and I said 'well you say it on your blog all the time',and I said I read your stuff, you're doing it all the time, you're doing it over there 'n this is just

paraphrasing the conversation, but he was really hot, he was in my face and at a certain point Isaid I gotta take charge of this, this man is tryin' to bluff me, he's tryin' to physically intimidate

me, and I said, I've got start asking him some questions in turn, to turn, turn, turn the tables onhim and that's what I did, i said 'tell me', I said, 'do you, or do you not believe that he, being

Obama, is a natural born citizen, I went right to the base of it, right, and he didn't answer me. Hewouldn't answer me.


23/46

1:13:52 and that's when I knew he was being intellectually dishonest, because if he couldn't

answer that question he had doubts himself, but yet he's arguing that he is, right? So he, he, heI'm staring him, i'm staring him right back at him and he's staring right at me, we're eyeball to

eyeball, and i saw him starting to twitch and I, looking in his eyes I could see he was all bluff,

he's a hollow man, there was nothing there, so, he wouldn't answer me, so I waited anothersecond or two, and I said real loud, I said DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT believe he is a naturalborn citizen, and at that point, I mean the guards were all went ho ho ho, there's something

gonna happen here

ASK: (she chuckles appreciatively)

CK: (laughs too) because i was turning the tables on him now, and actually he started to shake,you could see his eyes twitching, his skin startin' to twitch, his body started shaking, he bruffly

(sp?), he never answered me, he bruffly turned around and ran back to his seat, picked up hisbook, his tablet and his pen, and, and he started to try to write something, and I looked, I

observed him, and his hand was shaking like a leaf, he couldn't write

1:14:57 ASK: Oh. Ha!

CK: So (she talks over)

ASK: You called his bluff

CK: Yeah. He tried to break me, and I broke him, and he he, he's a, he, he has no truth on hisside, he's hiding behind his tough, the tough Marine Corps Colonel veneer, but he's not, he's not,

inside he knows he's not being truthful and his argument is hollow just like he is, and the tru, Iwas arguing the truth and he knew it, and and he broke, and he ran

ASK: Yeah was he one, one of the er (he talks over her)...members of the prosecution?

CK: the point is (she interrupts) he...I was gonna say, just to finish up, who is being accused of

potentially being violent, and who's violent again? Who's potentially violent again?

ASK: Yea

CK: The Obots, running up to us...and the lawyer said Charles that's fully physical, that's, that'stechnical assault, he didn't batter you, but that's assault. If you wanna bring charges on this I'll be

your witness...I, I, I I'm not gonna pursue that, you know

ASK: Right, right.

1:16:00 ASK: right, right, right right, er is er, was Colonel Sullivan a member of the prosecution team?


24/46

CK: No, but he did know 'em, and they knew him.

ASK: OK

CK: They were, there were talking to the, not only the prosecution team, but the defense team. Now can

you, why, why, what the, they, Neal Puckett and the JAG officer knew, knew er Col Sullivan very well,

and at some point, somebody saw a member of the defense team, give a, it was either to er, Col

Sullivan, or this partner there named Philip Cave, another super obot, who's also an attorney, er, a CD.

Now what was on it, I don't know, but no electronic equipment was allowed in the courtroom, and here,

the defense team passes a CD to the two Obots that are in the room (chuckles) and we're going what's

going on here?

ASK: Yeah, yeah

CK: What's going on here?

1:17:00 ASK: Well, well didn't you also say...well maybe I'm jumping ahead here, but the prosecution

showed the video of Lt er, er Col Lakin er um, talking into the camera about why he did what he did

CK: Right, right.

ASK: did they did that during the arguments? The final arguments?

CK: Errrr, I think it was during the er, I'd have to look at my notes, now, I think it was during the er, the

sentencing phase. They want they wanted to show pre-meditation

ASK: OK, that's right, you did mention that. That's right, which is ironic because in it he talks about the

whole reason why he's doing it, so I mean, there it was, in the courtroom on the record...(he talks over

her)


25/46

CK: No wait a minute, I just looked...it was on, er, the 15th the second day, at about 3pm, they put it on,

and this was in the (pause) I believe it was in the sentencing phase, but you know, don't, don't get me -

I'm almost sure it was in the sentencing phase, at that point

1:18:06 But er, they put it on to show the pre-meditation. They wanted to get the maximum sentence

ASK: Yea, and the irony of it is, is that the very, the whole reason for, for Col Lakin doing what he did,

was On that video.

CK: Yes! Yes, and then after (she talks over him) the video was done...

ASK: And they wouldn't allow it as evidence (ha ha (he talks over her) but at the same time there is was,

on the record

CK: Yeah I know and the defense wouldn't use it, but the prosecution did, and when, when it was done,

the audience applauded, and the judge, she hadda like rap the gavel, and tell the gallery - she calls it the

gallery - to be quiet.

1:18:42 ASK: Hmm, yea. I wanna talk with you about the second day, um or, or maybe it was the third

day, when Neal Puckett himself, his own defense attorney, turned on him.

CK: That, that was, that was the

ASK: And broke him down

CK: Yep, Yep they (she talks over him)

ASK: Tell us about that


26/46

CK: When it came to, to the, to the sentencing phase, er, Neal allowed his, er he he had, er Lt Col Lakin

make an unsworn statement which which was not subject to cross examination, and i thought this was

going to be used, and the gallery thought it was going to be used, to present his arguments, that, that he

did this to live up to his oath to the constitution, and that this would be a positive opportunity for Lt Col

Lakin to, to show why he did this, and that's not, that's not what Neal Puckett did, he used this to er,

demoralize and, and throw under the bus Lt Col Lakin's honor, self-esteem, and the United States

Constitution.

1:19:50 He, he he, he kept beating away at, er, verbally, as, as only a, an expert attorney is capable of

doing when they have someone on the stand, they can tear you apart. That's what he did. Like, you

would expect him to be doing this to a hostile witness. He, he said he said, he drew an analogy, and said

that, Terry you're a doctor, and he drew an analogy of cancer, he said, you're, you're he said you find

out you have cancer and you go to a doctor. Doc says you have cancer, and you go to another doctor

and he says you don't have cancer, but you refuse to give up on your belief that you have cancer, and so

you become obsessed that you have cancer, and you keep doing things, wrong things to treat, to get

treatment when you don't really have the cancer.

This is, if this is the analogy with the Constitution, if you believe there was a cancer on the constitution,

that, you know, oh, that he called Obama a Native born citizen, ha, he didn't even use the term natural

born. You felt that this, that he wasn't eligible, but, you know, other people told you you were wrong

but you didn't wanna believe it, because you have this obsession with the Constitution, you're obsessed

with it, you, you, and he had a, he had the picture of his children on the wall, and the family is in the first

row, and he's saying when are you going to stop thinking of yourself and your obsession to the

Constitution, and start thinking of these children up here on the wall, when are you going to do

something for them, instead of for yourself?

1:21:08 ASK: Sighs

CK: Can, can you imagine this, half an hour, fully...(she talks over him)

ASK: Wow

CK an HOUR of this, brow beating him, intimidating him, er, cross ex, you know, like cross examining

him, as if he's - Terry after half an hour of this looked like, you ever see a picture of a Vietnam war

prisoner thats been beaten up and mentally duressed to the point that they don't know what they're

doing, and they're forced to make statements on tv, their heads down and broken?


27/46

ASK: Yep

CK: It was terrible

ASK: It makes you wanna cry (he talks over her) Oh my god.

CK: People in the audience were crying. Neal Puckett ambushed him on the stand, he, he told, he posted

on his own blog, that he surprised Terry, Terry did not know what he was gonna do. He wanted Terry to

show remorse (she talks over)

ASK: gosh (or wow)

CK: He wanted Terry to show remorse to get the letter sentence, but he didn't just make Terry show

remorse, he destroyed Terry. He said that, that you're upset that, that the cancer on the Constitution

was a mirage. A mirage! His, in other words, his, his oath and belief in the Constitution, that Obama has

a question of his eligibility, that's a mirage. There is no cancer on the Constitution, and you're just

obsessed with this, and, and you wouldn't let it go to to the point of hurting your own children, and your

own family, and are, are you gonna stop thinking of yourself now, and think of your children, and he's

pointing at the picture of those three young children on the all with his wife, I mean this was, (She talks

over)

ASK: Oh how horrible

CK: this was mental torture. (she talks over)

ASK: horrible

CK: Now if you're (she talks over) now if you're under trial for potentially 42 months in prison, you're

under a lot of stress already, right?

ASK: Yes


28/46

1:22:41 CK: He was under tremendous stress, and his own defense counsel was tearing him apart,

destroying him, making him look like he was a selfish individual who was only thinking of himself, and,

and pursuing a made-up mirage obsession that there's some, that there's some threat to the

Constitution.

ASK: Oh that's heartbreaking. You must have just wanted to get up and scream STOP

CK: I was shaking my head I just... I couldn't understand why. I said, why did they hire this attorney? He

doesn't believe, I found out later that, that er, that this Neal Puckett, and and, and the Obot Attorney,

Colonel Sullivan, who's an ACLU lawyer, by the way, in Baltimore, or he was, and then he was hired by

the government to defend the Gitmo terrorists. Did you know that? That Colonel Sullivan defended the

Gitmo terrorists? but any way they're good f, they know each other, they respect each other, but er, er...

but the worst case is that, is that Neal Puckett does not believe in the natural born citizen argument at

all! He, he thinks that if you're native born, you're eligible, and he believes that Obama is native born, he

used the term native born, he didn't use the term natural born to describe Obama (she mmms over him)

1:23:54 ASK: Mmmm.

CK: as like the eligibility requirement for Obama, he's, he said, he made, he made Terry (admit ?)... now

you believe, that, do you believe that Obama, is native born or not, Yes or No? And he said, he made

Terry say yes. So all of this is of, supposedly to show remorse, and that he's never gonna do this again,

oh, so that the panel would give him a lighter sentence, but he could have defended Terry using the

Constitution as the reason he did this. Not, not not destroy him completely

I think Terry was, er thought that possibly, if, if Neal, if he allowed Neal to do, to do whatever he wanted

to do, that he could maybe stay in the service. That was the most important thing to Terry, was to be

able to stay in the Service. He loved the army. And, I think maybe Neal said, er, er, you, basically er, that

there's a possibility that I can keep you in the Service, if you show remorse, but he didn't tell Terry at all.

He says on his own blog, erm, Neal Puckett says that he surprised his own client on the stand with his,

with his method of questioning

1:25:03 what an arrogant, arrogant... (he talks over her)

CK: And that to me, that to me is an ambush and this goes back to how did he, how did Lt Cl Lakin get

introduced to this attorney, an attorney who does does not believe in the natural born citizen eligibility

issue at all and he he believes that all you have to be is born in America . Anchor Babies could be (she

talks over him) President


29/46

ASK: In other words...He's been set up. Was he set up (he talks over her) I guess this is the question

CK:I, I can't, er, looking at what I saw, it went through my mind, how did this man, get, get to be in theposition to, to ahh, talk to Terry and get impressed to the point that he hired this attorney, because he

came with a very, a very good reputation, as being an expert in UCMJ, but the only thing is now, ... is

that the sentencing phase is not, er over, and Neal announces he has to leave early

ASK: He's leaving before the (he talks over her)

CK: He left, He left before this phase was finished

1:26:04 And he left (unclear) now what, what kind of attorney who's a hundred and ten % committed to

your client, leaves before the case is finished?

ASK: (long draw out aaaah) Somebody who's not 110% (he talks over her) committed

CK: ...that makes me think he did not have himself 110% engaged in defending Terry, Terry Lakin and

remember he said (before?) to the Court Martial that Terry was going to be convicted. Remember

that statement?

ASK: Hmmm hmm

Documents

Transcript of Andrea Shea King Show on BTR with Charles Kerchner December 30, 2010