Tomorrow, June 23rd

Workshop! Be sure to have read any submitted work to date.

Continue discussion of fiction: plot and character.

Possibly begin discussion of script writing.

What is this stuff and how do you learn it?

How do you teach it?How is it different from any other kind of writing?

Where is its place in the history of writing/writing studies?

Let’s start with

“creative writing”—

small “c” & small “w”

:)

what kind of writing is “creative” writing? What is “art,” really? What’s it for? Whom is it for?

That is…

Responses from another recent class…

Krista Kiedrowski

Creative writing to me is scary. I don't know if I can write, and if I some how produce something I don't know if it will be any good. Hopefully I'll learn to write masterpiece!

Creative writing is for reading, I have no idea how to answer this question. 

Creative writing is mostly for the writer I think. And I think its more for a smaller group of readers. I don't thing in this instance the writer is trying to please or include as many people as possible. 

These next three raise different versions of the same question…

Deven Creative Writing is any writing that isn’t

done for someone else. Creative Writing is for the writer. The same I would say holds true for any kind of art. An artist creates a painting for his/herself, and the folks walking around the gallery are privileged to see it. A musician creates an album about something personal in his life and the listeners are simply “along for the ride”.

Yes! Absolutely! Except…

Is the audience really that irrelevant? Is this the kind of art you/we typically spend our money on? CDs? Big budget films?

Jason BoergerCreative writing is allowing yourself to spill whatever is in your

head, onto paper.

3. Creative writing is an art. I also think it can be theraputic and uplifting.

4. I truely believe Creative writing is for the reader. I quit reading when something isn't interesting, so I think it has to capture the reader, therefore it's for the reader. That doesn't mean it should be catered to a certain group of people, but rather the goal is to have a reader or readers connect to the writing.

5. No, I think creative writing can't be forced. You have to want to do it. I see it like choir, you have talented people, but if they don't try, then it's a waste to try to teach them and ultimately the performance suffers. It's a possibility in grade school, to just open the door to the kids when they are young, then offer it to those who want to as they get older, but requiring it is the wrong path to go down.

Erica Creative writing is without restrictions,

or not many of them. Individuals are free to express themselves and be original. Too many rules and restrictions suppress creativity since individuals are so limited. Creative writing can be described as freedom of writing where emotions are not concealed and the creator is present within each piece of work.

Yep, completely true!

And, again, how come this isn’t the art that most of us actively support with our check books?

—except, um, what about form? Craft?

Emma Doerner2. To me, creative writing is a form of self-expression

that is completely unique. I believe that it is another medium that can channel who we are as individuals experiencing life. In a way, it is similar to painting a picture, composing a song, or taking a photograph.. another way to share my viewpoint with the world.

3. In my opinon, the purpose of creative writing is for both pleasure and the sharing of ideas.

4. Creative writing is for everybody, both the writer and the reader, Every reader. I think writing for only one audience occurs, but it is unwise. That's like painting a picture and telling some people that they shouldn't look at it or try to interpret it. Not that a writer should worry about pleasing everyone, because I'm pretty sure that's impossible. I think we should write with the mindset that this piece of work can and should be shared by all.

Hattie Tysver

I think creative writing is an expression of the truth.  I think that it includes humor and beauty found only in people's imaginations.

.

Tyler VosslerFor me though, writing down the stories I tell detracts from them, greatly.  So,

one might say I'm a story teller, not a writer.  Then why write?  Mostly misplaced anger, maybe I'm a little jaded, but definatly because if I'm not telling stories I've told a thousand times, I get too caught up in my own words, that I fail, utterly, at conveying anything that could even be considered a good story.  I write to tell stories, new ones.  A little fyi though, I'd love to tell you some old ones if you ask.

I can't explain exactly why I want to write.  I just like the idea of it.  People are more likely to listen to you if your ideas are on paper.  They seem more solid.  Even ideas that arn't real.  A good story is only worth how many people know it, and how well it is told.  I want to be excelent both.

I don't really write for anybody but myself though.  I'm a selfish ass whole.  It's the same reason I tell stories too.  I enjoy it, I'm good at it, so I do it.  My writing, I need to improve.  I like it!  Didn't always, now I do.  I'm pretty good at it, or so I've been told.  So, it's something worth pursueing.  Who knows, if enough people actually like it, I might be able to do it for money, and hopefully it won't become work.  At which point I'd probably go crazy and burn a complete collection of my work... or at least pretend to go crazy, 'cause there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Michael Fitzgerald

Creative writing is writing that's engaging for its form and style as much as its content.

3.)  Creative should give the reader an experience, whether it's that of the protagonist or the writer himself.

4.)  When I write, I consider a small subset of friends and family as the reader.  If other people respond as they would, so much the better.

5.)  I think creative writing skills should be incorporated into english classes at all levels, but as its own class, it shouldn't be required.  Creative writing should be encouraged, not forced.

Brian

Creative writing is one of the most powerful ways to expel and express feelings, thoughts, and ideas. Writing and all art is meant to affect and influence the minds and emotions of others. The needs of the audience are important and writer should make some compromises, however a writer should never compromise their message.

Rhetorical component of any piece of writing

Or is it something we do for its sake—without any exterior purpose?

Heather

Creative writing is something that I want to do because it helps me feel connected. It is a way for me to tap into my subconscious thoughts and desires. It’s a way for me to express those to others.

SELF OTHER

Maybe writing’s a constant negotiation between these two

Artist Audience

AdamAll art should be educative (assuming there’s a way things should be –

that there is a right way), for what possible value could art possess if it did not lead us towards what is ultimately good? This leads us to the point that we must first know what is good. I’m not so sure we (as a people/collective consciousness) actually do know what is good (though we often assume we do). Fortunately, creative writing allows for the opportunity for each individual artist to search (however they so choose) for what is true and good through a process of self-expression, and thus, self-realization. I could go off on this for hours, but I hope this gives a general outline of why I write.

P.S. Sorry this is so late, I was at the RNC and then went to a musical this weekend. But I can’t wait to meet you all later

Ok, the REAL truth comes out. Art’s an excuse to be a slacker! Plato was right…

Ethical purpose of art?What did Plato say about this?

Chris

Creative writing is for writing very creatively. It is for fun, enjoyment, and school type people. Art is for those people who enjoy art. It is hard to say if the writer’s or audience’s needs are more important because, when juxtaposing them, only an english teacher could determine whose needs institute more need. It should be determined on an individual basis. All students should take creative writing so they can learn to write better.

Who judges?

The extraction and amplification of ancient DNA (aDNA) is a recent discovery in the history of science. The concept of ancient DNA has eluded scientists …within the Cretaceous epoch, reportedly also yielded authentic DNA (Cano et al. 1993). DNA retrieval was also not limited to y and epidemiology. The field of ancient DNA is constantly growing with the advent of new techniques concerning extraction and amplification in conjunction with individuals such as Savante Pääbo and Russ Higuchi. There have been numerous tissues that have been subjected to aDNA research including Neanderthal remains, King Tut, and Otzi.

Ancient DNA is genetic material that is recovered from historical and pre-historical specimens. Ancient DNA can be obtained from archaeologically or preserved in a museum environment. Ancient DNA can be retrieved from skeletal material, mummified tissues, and hair. Viable samples can be obtained from dry, wet, and frozen specimens. Samples of ancient DNA can be extracted from plants, animals and insects […]

Ancient DNA: a HistoryLacey L. Locket (Sam Schanhaar)

Carl

Creative writing, in my opinion, is poetry, prose, really it’s anything that you don’t need to do extensive research to write and doesn’t need a bibliography. Creative writing can be something totally new, or something ripped off from one of the greats, just a little different; different enough, at least, to not get sued. It can be a way of expressing yourself, resolving inner conflicts, or just killing time.

genre

therapy (back to the self)

Notice how little attention in these items on the work itself

Does/can the work have a mind of its own? Some artists have spoken about it in these terms…

Forget all these questions—creative writing is the writing of poetry and fiction. Duh. The end.

You guys…

Cassandra Refling

I am here because I decided that my writing will not get too much better without serious feedback, something I've never sought before.  I've done a lot of creative writing.  I won't rate it at all, but I've done a lot.  My last English class was Intro to Writing Studies.

To me, creative writing is mainly composed of stories and poems, but can be found anywhere from books to graffiti to clever memo lines on checks.  It's for expressing feelings and creating something from the collection of stuff in my head.  I think whether it's for the reader or the writer depends on the piece.  I think one should at least have the opportunity to take creative writing in junior high and that normal English classes should have a short intro to it.

Matt

…I even toyed with the idea of making a career out of it. I enjoy any medium that allows an individual to create. I have a great respect for language with all of its potential.

To me, writing is simply one of many forms of artistic expression. I make little distinction between paragraph and painting. I read an excerpt a while back that stated, loosely, that an artist is successful when he/she can create their own world and effectively share that world in its entirety with others. I strive to communicate effectively.

Richmy second favorite class (after visual art classes) because of the freedom it allowed. I love not

having to follow stifling rules on how to prepare something, to be allowed to explode my ideas on to the paper has always been a great release for me. The things I enjoy writing the most are stream of consciousness writings, I can usually put them into any form (poetry, short stories, essays, rants, ect..). The thing I love most about them is reading them, I often have a hard time believing that I am the one who actually wrote them. The more thought I put into something, the muddier and less enjoyable it becomes.

In this course I hope to learn mostly about writing a good fiction short stories as a stepping stone to hopefully writing book length ones in the future. I also am very interested in screen-writing and want to learn all I can about it (maybe get a sitcom job or something - like in the show 30 Rock).

I think creative writing is for the author and the audience, but in totally different aspects. For the author the writing is a growth experience, they become someone else by writing what they write (maybe not much different, but definitely different). The readers often just digest the writing as they would a cheeseburger, enjoying it while it is in their mind but when they are done they are not often changed by it. BUT, when something is written that the specific reader relates to or is fascinated by, then it is a different story. Then the reader can actually be much more effected than the writer, it can change the reader's life for the better or the worse.

If you want to know more about me, the current NDSU Magazine has a big article that explains my personal history in a bit more detail. The article is called "built for the job".

Here is a link to the PDF:http://www.ndsu.edu/ndsu/news/magazine/vol09_issue02/spring_mag2009.pdf

PeterI am returning to one of my passions in life. Writing is a form of self

expression and may be personal or something to share, it depends on the work. Most poetry I write is sent to other students for their comments, I want to see if my images are clearly visible or if the diction creates a mist that blurs the sharp details of my thoughts…

Creative writing allows the author to freely express them self in a variety of genres. It may be fictional or non-fictional, but the openness of the genre makes it interesting. Expression and passion are the keystones of good creative writing. You need to make someone cry, as I did reading "One of Ours", but the passion of the life must come through the page to create a bond with the author and reader. The reader is the focus for a creative writer, otherwise why write? The writer could simply walk around with all those images in their head and not share them, but sharing is the instrument which allows a writer to be just that, a writer. Its all about the audience and creative writing should be mandatory for high school and college students, but loosely graded to encourage an open channel of communication and personal expression for young minds to explore the challenge of fine arts and thus explore them self and their relationship to humanity. 

JaneThe writing that I do is more of journaling. Just recording

thoughts in my head and events that happened that day…

I think creative writing is writing that has no limits. In a way, I think that all writing is creative. I think creative writing is mainly for the writer. I believe it's mostly for the writer because many people write creatively and it's not published, so not many people get to read it. I think the purpose of fine arts in general is to make a person more balanced and arts can be used as an outlet for many different things. I think it should be a mandatory in high school, kids in high school are still young and should be exposed to as many different forms of art as possible. I was in choir in high school and I loved it, it was a creative outlet and I made a lot of friends. I also took a choir course in college and liked that as well. I think it would be great to have it mandatory in college, but many people want to get through college really quickly and are really focused on the courses that a required for their major.

Christina…my interest in creative writing is to learn how to express myself more in

writing, to learn more about my writing style and capabilities…What I hope to get out of this class is more confidence in myself and my writing ability, self realization of my talents or the lack there of, and a good passing grade.

Creative writing to me is the expression of one’s thoughts and feelings in a unique form of the writers writing style. Creative writing is for the writer to express one’s self, not for their readers. I feel creative writing should be a mandatory subject in high school to see where young adults views and hidden self feelings or thoughts may be only expressed through writing. I am not sure if creative writing should be mandatory for college undergraduates. I think as a money aspect being a college student that it shouldn’t be because of the cost perspective, however if you are looking at trying to expand a student’s professional development it may not be a bad idea. I think it could be beneficial to make it mandatory for some majors but not others. So I guess my answer will be depends on the student’s major and interests.

Skittish Libations

You favorite quotations?

An escape from reality; a

sedative or distractionFo

rmal

ist

FormalistArt

A way t

o change

reality (a

rt as a

hammer)

The invention

of reality A conf

ront

ation

with

reali

ty; fa

cing

reali

ty

(pos

sibly

moc

king

or in

terro

gatin

g?)

A m

agn

ification

of reality; yo

u

beco

me m

ore

alive

The discovery of

reality

A cra

ft or

lear

nabl

e

skill

A mysterio

us

inborn talent

A m

irror on

reality

An interpretation

of reality

The honoring of tradition;

connecting with our most

ancient roots

Form

alis

t

Form

alis

t

FormalistArt

A way

of

seei

ng

A hoax; excuse for not

having a REAL job

A process

The subversion of tradition (“make it new”)

Self-expression;

solely for self ;

exploration of one’s

private vision

Somet

hing

sol

ely

for

othe

rs; p

leas

ing

an

audi

ence

Emotional or

psychological

therapy

A product

An Idle passtim

e

Th

e m

ost

vit

al o

f al

l hu

man

ac

tivi

ties

A form of prolonged

childhood

Bea

uty

TruthA commodity

Mass market: innovation = low priority. Audience satisfaction and pleasure = high priority. Formulas = common. Feel-good; few demands on audience. Confirmation of what is known.

Fine arts: innovation = high priority. Artist satisfaction and pleasure = high priority. Self-conscious attention to tradition. Assumes a very well read audience. Art quality, exploration of unknown = high priority.

The introspective, suffering, isolated artist.Art as private vision.

The open, public, accessible bard. Art as communal, sometimes political, event.

The maker or craftsman. Art as beautiful, shaped, highly crafted object to be lingered over and contemplated.

The crazed visionary; translator of visions from the muse, or duende.

What kind of story or poem are you writing or do you want to write? What are your options as a writer?

What kinds of stories or poems are your classmates working on? How should our different understandings of art affect the feedback we give in workshop?

Ok.So nobody knows how to define it.Or there’s no final definition.Then how do we learn it?How does it get taught? (Emphasize

process or product? Craft or free exploration?)

How is it distinguished from any other kind of writing and so what’s it’s place in the schools at any level? In other words…

What is “Creative Writing” with a capital C and W?

= the branch of English Studies that involves teaching and learning how to write creatively, right?

Yeah, but…

• Isn’t all writing “creative”? Why call it Creative Writing?

• Can it really be taught? Isn’t it about talent and a mysterious ability to summon the muse?

• What’s it doing in a university? How do you evaluate it?

• How does it relate to Rhetoric and Composition, Literary Studies, Linguistics, Technical Writing? Isn’t writing in these fields creative also?

• What’s more important: the writing of literature or the study of it?

Did you know…

In some of its earliest appearances in higher ed, it was taught to help students understand literature better. I.e., it was in the service of literature studies.

The idea was that writing some fiction, poetry, drama themselves, students would better understand the masterpieces of literature.

But also…a bunch of teachers who

were also writers wanted to get together with other writers and blab about their work—

in a college setting.

(Couldn’t hang out in the bistros of Paris or Gertrude Stein’s salon anymore, so had to get together somewhere…)

It’s always been a bit of an outlaw…

Not scholarly like other disciplines. The MFA is a studio degree. Very different criteria.

Not really “academic.” More of a “spritual” discipline.

A “soft” subject. Workshop approach is whimpy: writers who want to talk with other writers sit in a circle and read/discuss their stuff, while a teacher/published writer chimes in.

Since the 80s, though,

It has been influenced by postmodern theory, composition studies, and English education.

The way it is taught is changing here and there…

You can now study “the teaching of Creative Writing” as a subject itself. Or “Creative Writing Studies” which examines:

o Creative writing pedagogyo The culture of creative writing/creative writing in the culture o The history of creative writing in the university.

You can get an MA and PhD in “Creative Writing Studies.”

So back to our class and this course. How should it be run? How

should I teach it?

When I go into the creative writing classroom…

• I teach genres. Poetry, fiction. Creative nonfiction. Some script writing.

• I encourage wide-open self-expression.• I encourage disciplined attention to craft.• I encourage demented new ways of thinking about

the world.• I encourage thoughtful appreciation of very old

traditions.• I try to do everything.• That’s why I’m burning out.• That’s why I’m insane. • Don’t tell my boss.

By the end of this semester, I’d like you to submit work for our local buses!

Poetry on Wheels

Short-Short Poems

Fresh language. Fresh ideas. Attention to line

breaks. Attention to music. No greeting card verse. Nothing offensive.