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To Feel (in) the Dagger

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To Feel (in) the Dagger. The concept of Fuhlen without contact of blades (presentation of a hypothesis) Karel Černín, Revertar. Sources for techniques used. Danzig (1452, Cod.44.A.8 ) Talhoffer (1443, MS Chart.A.558; 1450, MS 78.A.15; 1459, MS Thott.290.2º; 1467, Codex Icon 394a) - PowerPoint PPT Presentation

Text of To Feel (in) the Dagger

  • To Feel (in) the DaggerThe concept of Fuhlen without contact of blades (presentation of a hypothesis)

    Karel ernn, Revertar

  • Sources for techniques usedDanzig (1452, Cod.44.A.8 )Talhoffer (1443, MS Chart.A.558; 1450, MS 78.A.15; 1459, MS Thott.290.2; 1467, Codex Icon 394a) Kal (cca 1470, CGM 1507)Wallerstein (cca 1470, Cod.I.6.4.2)Falkner (1495, MS KK5012)Goliath (cca 1510, MS German Quarto 2020)Drer (1512, MS 26-232)Berlin (1512, Libr.Pict.A.83)Glasgow (1508, MS E.1939.65.341)

    partly: Liberi (cca 1410, Pisani-Dossi Edition)Marozzo (1536, Opera Nova)

  • Inspiration

    Eli Steenput: oponents reaction to one technique can create opening and opportunity for anotherColin Richards: Fuhlen can be used to choose between different techniquesAnton Kohutovi: to apply Fuhlen you need to put oponent under pressure

  • Executive summaryPRIMARY COUNTER (plan A):Catch attackers armed hand, push it out of the way, keep contact and control.If you have a dagger, stab. / If not, hit him in the face and throw him.

    FUHLEN:If you fail (he counters), feel the pressure of his armed hand.

    SECONDARY COUNTER (plan B):According to WEICH or HERT apply locks, breaks, disarms and throws.

  • High stab Upper shieldTalhoffer 1459 64v

  • Primary counter = stabLiberi (Pisani-Dossi) 10v

  • HERT: Secondary countersTalhoffer 1467 t. 182, Goliath t. 11

  • WEICH: Secondary countersWallerstein 25r, Talhoffer 1450

  • System in the dagger fighting:

    A hidden truth or a sophisticated lie?

  • Reasons FOR the systemComplex locks and disarms dont work as primary techniques beacuse:attacker escapesattacker counters

    Quick primary counter forces attacker to react and opens opportunity for applying more complex techniques

  • Reasons AGAINST the systemNot supported by manuscripts all techniques appear to be primary.

    Different possible explanations for broad portfolio of techniques - choice might be based on: defenders preferences or intentattackers characteristics (taller/smaller, stronger/weaker)attack (angle, positions of feet)

    Chaotic situation after primary counter what if syndrom

  • Still want to hear more of our sophisticated lies?Here we go!

  • A.Unarmed

  • High stab left hand blockTalhoffer 1450

  • Primary counter = neck throwTalhoffer 1450

  • HERT: Secondary countersTalhoffer 1459 61v, Durer t.48, Berlin 52v (Danzig 86r)

  • WEICH: Secondary countersTalhoffer 1443 t. 121

  • B.Armed

  • High stab left hand blockFalkner 46v

  • Primary counter = stabTalhoffer 1467 t.190

  • HERT: Secondary countersTalhoffer 1467 t.178, Talhoffer 1459 70v, Talhoffer 1467 t.188

  • WEICH: Secondary counters| Merck | hat er den degen gefast | das die scheib an seine~ klaine finger stet | vnd sticht dir oben zu so ver ker dein lincke hant | vnd var von vnden auf | vnd begreif m den arm~ vor pe der hannt vnder seine~ degen | vnd wrg m den degen mit deine~ lincken arm~ vbersich auf Danzig 94v-95rFalkner 48v

  • A.Unarmed

  • High stab right hand blockTalhoffer 1450

  • Primary counter = throwMarozzo t.61

  • HERT: Secondary countersTalhoffer 1443 t.118Sticht Er aber den ober stich zu dir / nach deine~ haubt / oder zu der prust / so far von vndt auff mit der recht ewichen hant / vndter sein rechte hant / vnd begreyff in den arm~ / vnd mit der linckn hant vber sein recht arm~ / thue den tegen v dir / so nymbst du im den tege / oder wurfst in vber ein pain / als oben gemalt stet /

    Glasgow 98r

  • WEICH: Secondary countersTalhoffer 1450

  • B.Armed

  • High stab right hand blockBerlin 61v

  • Primary counter = stab| Merck sticht er von oben nyder | vnd hat den degen gefast das die scheib hinden an der hant stet | So fass dein degen auch also | vnd stich von vnden auf mit verkartem degen gegen seinen stich | vnd lass dir die hant nicht begreiffen | vnd stich in das gesicht ~Danzig 95r

    Berlin 65v

  • HERT: Secondary countersTalhoffer 1443 92r, Kal 77v

  • WEICH: Secondary countersBerlin 55r, Talhoffer 1459 65v

  • A.Unarmed

  • Low stab both hands blockTalhoffer 1450

  • Primary counter = throwVar mit deiner lincken hant vor fr sein hals | vnd schreit mit deinem lincken fues hinder seinen rechten | vnd wrf n vber dein lincks kne aus dem fuess ~

    Danzig 96r

  • HERT: Secondary counterFalkner 52r

  • WEICH: Secondary counter| Wenn dir einer mit dem degen vnden zu sticht so begreif m den arm~ arm~ mit paiden henden | vnd lauf m durch den arm~ | vnd halt fest | So prichstu Im den arm~ auch nmpstu Im den degen | ob dw wild ~Danzig 96r

    Berlin 53r

  • B.Armed

  • Low stab left hand blockKal 76v (catching the hand - Danzig 94v)

  • Primary counter = stabBerlin 38r

  • HERT: Secondary counterTalhoffer 1467 t.182

  • WEICH: Secondary counterKal 77r

  • bonus:Armed

  • High stab dagger blockTalhoffer 1443 88v

  • Primary counter = arm breakWallerstein 22v

  • HERT: Secondary counterTalhoffer 1459 64r

  • WEICH: Secondary counterWallerstein 25v

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