This is an interview with Henri A. Bodder for In the Age of Steel: Oral Histories from Bethlehem Pennsylvania. The interview

was conducted by Roger D. Simon on July 9, 1975 in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

00:00:00 Simon: This is an interview with Henri Bodder at Bodder House in Bethlehem, July 9, 1975. My name is Roger Simon. Tell

me where you were born, what part of town, and a little about that.

Bodder: I was born on 3rd Avenue and Market Street in 1896, and I have a twin sister. My name is Henri, and her name is

Henrietta. Later on, we moved out to my grandfather’s home, which is at the corner of 3rd Avenue and Prospect, a

great big white house. As we jokingly say, not the White House in Washington, the white house of West Bethlehem,

which was built in 1874 by my great-grandfather and grandfather, and that was, as you realize, 100 years ago last

October.

Simon: What was that neighborhood like when you were a youngster, West Bethlehem?

Bodder: West Bethlehem wasn’t too large. At that time, as I recall, we had two mailmen to cover the entire section of West

Bethlehem. One’s name was Mr. Morris Kendick (sp?), and the other was Mr. Eugene Bruner, who had a habit at

Christmastime of always quoting, ‘Christmas comes but once a year, and that’s ten times too often.’

There were open fields right above our home on Prospect Avenue, where in the spring of the year we used to collect

dandelion and sell it for five cents a bunch, and we thought we were rich when we sold three or four bunches in a

daytime. There were cows in that neighborhood where that row of houses is now on Prospect Avenue, and the farthest

we used to take a walk on a Sunday afternoon out to what was known as the Wolle boardwalk. There weren’t many

sidewalks back then. We used to walk out to the Wolle boardwalk. There were three Wolle1

homes. One was George,

one was Clarence, and one was Grandma Wolle across the street. The Wolles were great. They were quite a family in

Bethlehem.

Out where the Holy Family Manor2

is today, that particular building was built by a Professor Williams3

from Lehigh. I

carried papers for the Times Publishing Company, and at New Year he always gave me five dollars, and I never missed

a paper for him. That was a lot of money back in those days. Then there was the great big Shimer estate out there, 1 Likely refers to the prominent Moravian family, known for their musical talents. 2 An assisted living facility located on Spring Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 3

Likely refers to Clement Williams, president of Lehigh University from 1935-1944.

which was nothing but field, cattle, and he had a beautiful big barn, which burned down twice that I can remember in

my lifetime.

Then gradually it began to build up, build up. Where Elliott’s Heights are now, that used to be the Elliott’s farm, and

now you wouldn’t even recognize it. There are some beautiful homes out in this territory right now. So I watched. I

have seen it grow and grow and grow.

Out where the Bethlehem Steel Company’s new office

4 is, that used to be the Mack

5 farm. Used to go out there. There

was a creek, used to go out there and gather watercress on a Saturday morning. Where Rosemont6

was nothing but a

lot of fields. We used to go out there and play out there as boys. Then later on when we went over to that—I’m talking

now about West Side. I don’t remember too much about South Side or about the South Side or the North Side, because

we stayed pretty well on this side of Monocacy Creek7. There was the old bridge there, the old iron bridge. I well

remember when they built the new bridge.

One particular incident that I can remember, they talk about delinquent kids today, we were delinquent, but we didn’t

do anything nearly as bad as they’re doing today. One, there was a great big mound of dirt at the lower end of Broad

Street. Trolley cars would come down from Allentown [Pennsylvania] and stop there, and you had to walk across a

temporary bridge and then pick the car up on Broad and Main. But one Halloween, we went and got a bar of bee soap

and soaped the tracks. The car came down and almost went over this embankment. For months, we kids would never

go over town the front way. We always went back over town the back way, because they said the detectives were

looking for us. That’s one of the incidents I remember as being a delinquent. (laughs)

00:05:49 Simon: What did your father and your grandfather do?

Bodder: My grandfather was in the flour and feed business, and we had a great big barn on the back of our house. My father

worked for the Jersey Central Railroad8

for over 50 years. He was the gate tender at the Main Street crossing for over

40 years. One of the things I can remember about the old barn and my vacation, and since my father worked for the

4 Former headquarters for Bethlehem Steel Corporation, Martin Tower is 21-story office building located on 8th Avenue in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 5

Research indicates that the Mack family farm was located in north rather than west Bethlehem. It appears the narrator is mistaken about previous owners of this

property. 6

Rosemont Terrace is a subdivision located in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 7 This is a tributary of the Lehigh River. 8

The Central Railroad of New Jersey (also known as Jersey Central Railroad) was chartered in 1831. The railroad’s mainline ran from Jersey City west to

Phillipsburg, Easton, Bethlehem, Allentown, Wilkes-Barre and Scranton in Pennsylvania.

railroad, soon as school was out, he got a two-horse load of railroad ties brought up and dumped in front of the old

warehouse, and we had to saw those up because we burned a lot of wood in those days. So that’s how I spent my

vacation, sawing up railroad ties.

Simon: So your grandfather had this—

Bodder: Flour and feed business.

Simon: —flour and feed business. And his father had been here before him also, your great-grandfather?

Bodder: Yes, yes, but my great-grandfather, as I recall, came from Williams Township [Pennsylvania]. That’s in the lower part

of the valley [Lehigh Valley]. But they were always a resident of the city of Bethlehem. At that time, it was the

borough of West Bethlehem, of which my father was the treasurer of the old West Bethlehem Borough.

00:07:25 Simon: What were some of the other things that you kids did as a youngster to get into or stay out of trouble, as it were, when

you weren’t soaping the trolley tracks?

Bodder: (laughs) Well, the one thing that I can recall is that we used to, at Halloween, most everybody had their little stoop in

front of their place, not many big porches. So we’d take the stoop away and ring the doorbell or hammer on the door,

and they’d come out and their stoop is gone. Or we’d unhook the gates and hook them up somewhere.

One vivid thing that I remember is there was a store down on Fourth Avenue called Heckman & Lily (sp?), and we

went down there and took out their delivery wagon and brought it up and ran it down in what was known as the sandpit

back of the armory on Halloween.

Then another very interesting thing was there was an old woman by the name of Camilla Weaver, who lived two doors

from us on Prospect Avenue. I went home and found a piece of black material, because back in those days when

somebody passed on, they put a crepe on the door. So I went home and we fashioned up this piece of black material

and hung it on Camilla Weaver’s door. The next morning, all the neighbors came out and said, ‘Oh, my dear, now

Camilla is gone.’ And about a half an hour later, Camilla comes walking out her back door, and everybody was so

shocked. (laughs)

Then this being summertime recalls the great adventure of going down to the canal when the canal boats came up here

and brought watermelons. You got a great big watermelon for a dime, and we certainly had a lot of fun eating those

watermelons. One thing that is gone and is gone forever is the wonderful Fourth of July celebrations and the Canoe

Carnival we used to have on the Lehigh River. I mean, that was very outstanding. Everybody went down to the banks

of the river, and if you wanted to rent a canoe or a rowboat, you rented it from old George Mack. They had water

sports, and they had the old band out in the middle of the river, and we had a real wonderful time on the Fourth of July.

Never had much money, but we had a lot of fun.

Then we used to go to Central Park9, which in those days cost you a nickel to go from Bethlehem to Central Park, and

there was a lot of free shows there and good summer—talk about summer stock, they had several wonderful companies

there, and a roller coaster which we thought was the greatest thing we ever saw. So I have a lot of wonderful memories

of the West Side. I can even go back to the days when there was still a toll road to Allentown. The first toll gate was

out at Pennsylvania Avenue. It was a plank road which took you into Allentown.

Simon: There was a trolley on the same road as well?

Bodder: Later on, yes. And we used to enjoy riding on the open trolley cars, with the little running board on the side. But lots

of times we only had car fare, so we’d save our money and walk out to Central Park, which was in those days not much

of a jog to walk out there.

Simon: Circus ever come to Bethlehem?

Bodder: Yes, yes, the circus came to Bethlehem. Then there was the old Bethlehem Fairgrounds, which was opposite right

across the street. The entrance was right across the street from the Liberty High School10

. They had the best half-mile track anywhere in the state of Pennsylvania. Whatever happened to it, I don’t know. I had for a long time four long hairs from Dan Patsy’s (sp?) mane, which I prided very much, because there was the most beautiful animal that you ever could think of. On a Saturday morning after the fair was over, we would go out and they would pass out all the

old pies and cakes, and we’d eat them on a Saturday morning. That was quite a hike from where I lived on Third

Avenue and Prospect all the way out to where Liberty High School is now.

9 A now defunct park with rides such as a Derby Racer racing coaster that was located in Rittersville, Pennsylvania. 10

A public high school located on Linden Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Then, of course, we had real picnics, real Sunday School picnics in those days. Used to go over to the island11

, which

was later sold. The Moravian congregation sold it to the Lehigh Valley Railroad12

. But that was a great event. There

was a little ferry that went from Mack’s boat landing over to the island, and everybody went to the picnic. Used to

have washbaskets full of food, and we had three-legged races. Picnics were just real family affairs in those days, and

never, as long as I can remember, was there ever an accident. Nobody ever drowned going across, or nobody ever fell

in the water. It was a real, real good time for everybody.

Then later on, after the island was sold, we went to Bellewood Park13

. Bellewood Park was on the other side of the

tunnel just after you left Easton, and that was a big event. Used to be two great big trainloads in the morning and one

in the Saturday afternoon, because men worked at the steel company till twelve o’clock, and then there was always the

one o’clock train. But that was a community picnic, and that brings a lot of wonderful memories.

00:14:03 Simon: Did the West Side have any kind of a shopping area of its own, any kind of a business center to the West Side?

Bodder: No, no. There were a few grocery stores. Now, the one that comes to mind is Simmons (sp?) grocery store. That was

a grocery store and a department store as well, which the building is still down on Second Avenue. Where the Groman

Bakery is today, that was originally the old Sobers Bakery14

. Across the street was the Graham (sp?) butcher shop.

Then there was Mikeslins15

(sp?) had a store on Market Street. Then this Heckman & Lily’s store I was talking to you

about on 4th Avenue. But other than that, there was a drugstore on Broad Street, George Metzger’s (sp?) drugstore16

.

The building is still there and there’s a druggist in there, but George Metzger was the original druggist on the West

Side.

On the north side of the river was the Simon Rau drugstore17

, which at that time was only a drugstore, no soda fountain,

no candles or anything like cards that you find in drugstores. That was a real drugstore. The only thing that they did

11

Calypso Island was a 13-acre island located in the Lehigh River. In 1902 the Lehigh Valley Railroad purchased the island and transported most of the land to

use as filler for rail line construction. 12 Originally built to haul anthracite coal in Pennsylvania, the railroad eventually added passenger service and expanded to surrounding states. 13 Likely refers to Bellewood Park in Pattenburg, New Jersey. 14 E.F. Sobers Bakers and later Groman’s Baker were located on the corner of 2nd Ave. and Schaffer Street, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 15 Project staff were unable to identify this business. 16 Project staff were unable to identify this business. 17

Simon Rau drug store was located on 420 Main Street, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

sell was seeds. You went there in the spring of the year to buy your seeds. Then later on there was a Rexall drugstore

up on Main Street, and that had a soda fountain in

Simon: Did you ever get over to the South Side very much as a youngster, or was there very little reason to?

Bodder: Very little reason to. I mean, the only time I got over to the South Side as a rule was in the summertime when it came

time to make piccalilli18

, as we called it, piccalilli. We went over there. My father, who worked at the gates, my sister

and I used to go down there and meet him. He got off duty at six o’clock in the morning. We’d take two big market

baskets and go over to the market and get little pickles and onions, cauliflower and peppers, everything that goes into

the making of piccalilli, because you always made your own piccalilli back in those days.

Then, of course, we used to go over there occasionally to buy clothing at Repowicz (sp?) or from O’Reilly’s (sp?)19

.

Those are the two leading stores on the South Side. Back in those days, that was a real shopping center, a real shopping

center. Once in a while I get over there now, and I’m very saddened to think what 3rd Street has become now, because

that was a real, real shopping center at one time.

Simon: Much more so than Main Street?

Bodder: Well, it was a different type of a thing. You see, on Main Street, there were two big department stores. There was the

old Regal & Portwright (sp?) store, and then there was the Lerch & Rice (sp?)20

store, which was called the Beehive,

which was later purchased by Mr. Bush of the Bush & Bull Corporation21

, and later on was purchased by Mr. Bixler,

which is now the Orr’s store22

. There were other stores on Main Street, but those were the principal ones.

Then, of course, having spent 51 Christmases on Main Street both at Bush & Bull and at Orr’s, but originally my

retailing career started with what was known as the Ross store. That was a novelty store, like W.T. Grant or McCrory,

and that is now, that same building is still there where the Eastern Light is. I spent nine years there and then moved up

18 Pickled vegetables and spices. 19 Project staff were unable to find information about these two stores. 20 Project staff were unable to find information about these two stores. 21 This department store was open from 1870 to 1938. 22

Started by Matthew Orr, this department store had multiple locations including a location in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania that is currently home to the Main Street

Commons.

to—they closed up and I went up with Bush & Bull, and then later on I went—and when Mr. Bixler bought it, I stayed

with the Orrs. I was merchandise manager. I was boys’ buyer. I was men’s buyer. For the last ten years at Orrs, I was

their advertising man. So, you see, Main Street has quite a lot of memories for me, quite a lot of memories.

And I’m very saddened when I go over there now and look around and see just what is happening. I hope, I sincerely

hope that it’s all for the best, but sometimes I wonder, because at one time it was a very thriving community and they

did real good business. Bush & Bulls were known for their linen department. They had an excellent linen department,

one of the finest in the Lehigh Valley. Regal & Portwright were known for their piece goods, they sold a lot of piece

goods, because back in those days people were sewing more, making their own clothing, and they had a wonderful

reputation. And there were two thriving hat stores on Main Street, because in those days at Eastertime you had to buy a

new hat, in the summertime you had to buy a new straw hat. One was George Young and the other was Al Woodring.

Al Woodring, I believe, was an uncle to the present Judge Woodring in Easton. So that was really a big event. You

had to get a straw hat. Soon as May 15th

came around, you had to get a new straw hat.

Simon: Did people go out of the valley very much to shop when you were a youngster?

Bodder: You had the same trouble then as you had in later years. Everybody felt that the grass was greener on the other side of

the fence, so they always felt that Allentown had better stores. Of course, at that time, Hess’s23

was never nearly as

big, or Lay’s (sp?), or Ziner’s (sp?)24

, but people felt that they had to go there to see. And then, in many instances, they

would come back and say, ‘Well, I couldn’t find what I wanted, and you have it here.’ It’s the same old story. Those

people that wanted better things went to Philadelphia, John Wanamaker25

and Strawbridge & Clothier26

. But you had

the same trouble then as you have today. People think that they can find—of course, today the assortments are bigger,

probably. But maybe after this new mall gets finished, they’ll come back and have more business in Bethlehem.

I’m happy to see they’re painting up and redoing some of the buildings on Main Street. Main Street is in a better shape

than Broad Street. Of course, I may be prejudiced because spending all those years on Main Street, it’s almost home to

me. The one thing that I’m concerned about, having been in business all those years, is why the city is putting up all

these parking meters when people can go just a few miles away or a few steps away to a shopping center where they

don’t have to pay anything for parking? Why don’t they put up these parking lots, particularly where they’re tearing

23 The Hess Brothers department store opened in Allentown in 1897. 24 Project staff were unable to find information about these two stores. 25 Wannamaker’s was the first department store in Philadelphia. 26

Now Macy’s, Strawbridge’s flagship store was located in Philadelphia.

down Broad and Main Street now and leveling it off and expecting to put parking meters in there? Why don’t they

make it free parking? Give the people an opportunity to come into town instead having to force them to go out to

shopping centers.

00:22:32

00:24:59

Simons: While you’re talking about cars, why don’t we go back to the beginning. You remember when they first began to

appear in town?

Bodder: Oh, yes. The first one that I can remember was a Steamer, which was owned by Simon Rau of the Simon Rau

Drugstore27

. That was a Stanley Steamer28

. That’s the first car I can remember. Then there was a man by the name of

Cel Applegate29

, who had a tobacco business at the corner of Walnut Street and Broad Street, and he was a dealer. I

don’t remember the name of the car, but he was one of the first automobile dealers in town. One of the first garages

was at the corner of Fifth Avenue and Broad Street. That was owned by Hummel (sp?) and Bleemer (sp?). They were

one of the first garages. Then Miller, of the Miller Motor Company, he had a little machine shop down along the

Lehigh River, and later on he moved up and bought the old Bowman Hotel at the corner of 3rd Avenue and Broad

Street and established what is known as the Miller Automobile Agency. There weren’t too many cars in those days,

and those that could afford it, Packard was very big in those days.

Simon: Did it become a popular recreation escape very early?

Bodder: Well, it was quite an event if somebody asked you to take a ride, and it was amazing how fast they used to go, how fast

you thought they used to go in those days. I can remember a trip we took one time about 50 miles. I just don’t

remember the town we went to. But going up and coming back, we had 13 punctures. In those days, you fixed your

own tires, you took your stuff along, and, oh, what a job that was.

Simon: About when was that, do you remember?

Bodder: I would say that was about back in 1917. 1917.

Simon: What about as a teenager, as a young adult, were there other kinds of things to do, places to go dancing and drinking,

aside from the parks and such?

27 Formerly located at 420 Main Street, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 28 Stanley Steamer Motor Carriage Company manufactured steam engine automobiles. 29

Wencelius Applegate operated a cigar and tobacco store at 44 Broad Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Bodder: Well, as I recall in that article, it was the dance hall and the old Coliseum was very popular then. They used to run one

big band and one local band in there. One of the famous local bands was the Sheriff Wanamaker Orchestra, which was

a very, very—we thought a very excellent orchestra. But that was a very big place to dance. Then there was what they

called the BDA, which was above the Sun Inn, and then there was another one on the South Side, including the old

Coliseum. That’s where they used to go to dance.

Simon: Did you mingle much with the social affairs at the colleges, Lehigh, Moravian30

?

Bodder: No. Unfortunately, there wasn’t the type of communication that you have today. I mean, we on the West Side mingled

more with the Moravian College because a lot of them came to the little Moravian Church up there at Third Avenue.

The students came over there, Sunday School teachers and (inaudible). We had more association with Moravian

College than we did with the Lehigh.

And at one time, I can recall you couldn’t get anywhere near the Bethlehem Steel Company for any kind of

communications. The public relations was terrible in those days. They had a fellow by the name of Dikes (sp?), who

was public relations director, and, oh, you just couldn’t get anywhere. That has improved immensely in the last few

years, the relationship between the general public and the Bethlehem Steel Company, because they began to realize

that, after all, Bethlehem was thought of as a big city now and they’d better wise up and open it up to the community.

Looking at that picture, I remember the night when the city was consolidated

31. They marched up Main Street. Charlie

Schwab32

was there. We went into what is now the Nile Theater33

. I think in those days it was called the Lorenz. It

was owned by—built by a man by the name of Moyer. Charlie Schwab made a speech and there was a song. They had

a song made up, a parody, about Uncle Charlie Schwab, and he said then that night that he would make Bethlehem as

big as Pittsburgh. Well, unfortunately, Mr. Schwab never achieved that deal.

Simon: I don’t know if that’s unfortunate or not. Maybe it’s good. But they had a parade, huh?

30 Lehigh University and Moravian College. 31 The Bethlehems (Bethlehem and South Bethlehem) became the City of Bethlehem in 1917. 32

Charles Schwab was the president of United States Steel Corporation before taking over Bethlehem Steel in 1904. His early 20th-century leadership of

Bethlehem Steel Corporation helped make the company the second largest steel producer in the United States. 33

This theater was located on 60 W. Broad Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Bodder: Oh, a big parade, right up Main Street to Broad Street. And in those days, it was dirt streets. There was no paved

streets.

Simon: No paved streets at all?

Bodder: No paved streets. All dirt roads. All dirt roads. But that was a great event. The old Eagle Hotel34

was still there, with

a great big porch around it.

Simon: Where was the Eagle?

Bodder: Where the Hotel Bethlehem35

is now. That was the old Eagle Hotel.

Simon: Was there resistance to unification on the West Side?

00:29:18

Bodder: No, no, there wasn’t. I mean, not anything that was visible, you know. Of course, it took some persuading for them to

decide to all join hands, but they realized we were growing and growing and growing, and something had to be done.

Simon: Do you remember the controversy over the Hill-to-Hill Bridge36

when that was built?

Bodder: Yes, I do. One of the main persons that helped push that through was an attorney by the name of Dal Wilson

37. If it

had been for Dow Wilson and a few more civic-minded people, we probably would have never had a Hill-to-Hill

Bridge. Old Bob Neumeyer38

was city engineer at that particular time, and his plan was to run it right down Main

Street right through the Moravian Seminary39

and bring it out on the other side, bring it out on the other side of the

river, instead of where it is today.

Simon: Was that part of the reason it was controversial? The Moravians didn’t want their area touched? 34

In 1823 Zum Goldene Adler on Main Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania opened and became the Eagle Hotel in 1874. The Hotel Bethlehem is now at this

location. 35

Built on the site of the former Eagle Hotel in 1921, the Hotel Bethlehem is located at 437 Main Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 36 Located in Bethlehem, PA, construction began in 1922 on this concrete arch bridge that passes PA 378 over the Lehigh River. 37

Dallett H. Wilson circulated a petition and argued in favor of the Hill-to-Hill Bridge to the State of Pennsylvania’s Public Service Commission. He was

instrumental in securing permission to proceed locally, over the objections of railroad companies. 38 Robert A. Neumeyer designed the Hill-to-Hill Bridge. 39

The Moravian Seminary and College for Women were located at the intersection of Church and Main Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Bodder: Well, I don’t know. I don’t think that entered into it. I mean, it was just a wild dream of old Bob Neumeyer’s, but I

don’t think the Moravians would have—I don’t think that entered into it at all. That was just one of his ideas, you

know.

00:30:34 Simon: Let’s go back and pick up your career a little bit. Where did you go to school?

Bodder: Well, I went to the old Franklin School up on Center Street.

Simon: You had to walk from 3rd and Broad to Center and North.

Bodder: Third and Prospect to Center and North.

Simon: There was nothing on the West Side?

Bodder: Well, not any high school.

Simon: What about—there was a grade school?

Bodder: Oh, yes. I started school at Fairview and then we came down and finished out at Higby, which is now torn down. You

saw it as you came in here. And then went back to Fairview, and we had a principal by name of Mr. Bender, who was

a real disciplinarian. In those days, the kids did not talk back to the teachers. Then later on, there was Mr. Al Gruver

(sp?) was principal of Fairview, who then later became, I believe, if my memory doesn’t fail me, the first principal of

Liberty High School. Al Gruver was one of the finest teachers, although he was a strict disciplinarian.

Simon: Now, West Bethlehem must have been running their own elementary schools at that time.

Bodder: Yes. Oh, yes.

Simon: So when you came over to Franklin to go to high school, you were coming into the next town, because West Bethlehem

had no high school.

Bodder: You didn’t have any high school on the West Side. It was all in the Franklin building. They had high schools on the

South Side, but not in West Bethlehem.

Simon: So you went to high school at the Franklin School.

Bodder: That’s right.

Simon: Any things stand out from that schooling, ways in which it was different?

Bodder: No. I remember several of the teachers, a Miss McCreery (sp?) and a Miss Ross. I will never forget them. They were

two wonderful lady teachers. Then there was a fellow, a principal by the name of Fickle (sp?)40

, who was a great big

six-foot fellow. In those days, you read a portion of the scripture, and he always read—most every time he read the

scripture, he would read about the pitcher broken at the well. We got so tired of hearing that. (laughs) But, no, I can’t

recall any outstanding thing that I can remember from high school, except we had no cafeterias. There was a little

corner store across the street where we used to go and buy baloney and potato chips if we wanted to take our lunch.

Simon: What kinds of things did you concentrate on, do you remember? Was it a lot of classical literature, Latin? Did you

take Latin?

Bodder: Well, there was some Latin. German. I took German. I liked German. I took German. Of course, back in those days,

which they don’t even do today, they taught you reading, writing, and arithmetic, and your writing had to be right up to

snuff. That’s one of the thing that I think in the curriculum today they’re missing a lot, because half the time they can’t

even read a kid’s writing when they sign their own name.

Simon: A lot of drilling in penmanship?

Bodder: Yes, yes.

Simon: When did you graduate from—

Bodder: 1916.

00:34:29

40 Project staff were unable to identify these teachers.

Simon: 1916. Just in time for World War I.

00:35:42

00:36:36

Bodder: Yeh. But in those days, I weighed about, well, close to 300 pounds, and then I left. After school I went to the—well,

let’s see. I worked for the Vander Stucken & Ewing Construction Company41

, where Mr. Burnhart’s father was the

boss. Then later I worked in the Jersey Central Railroad42

. When the war broke out, I went to the Redington fuse

plant43

. After I was there a while, I left. Four of us went to Allentown to the recruiting station to the Navy, and being

as heavy as I was, I was outclassed. They didn’t take me. The skipper said, ‘Well, I don’t think we even have a

uniform to fit you. What are you doing?’ I said, ‘I’m making bullets and fuses.’ He said, ‘You go back and go to

work making fuzes, because we need those as much as we need manpower there.’ So I went back to the fuse plant and

stayed there until after the war.

Then I left there and went to Detroit and worked for the Studebaker

44 automobile people from 1918 to 1919, and then I

came back to the Bethlehem Steel Company and worked there in the Number Two shop45

as an inspector, and I became

a little discouraged with the machinist business, so then I left and went to the Ross store, which was just opening up,

this novelty store I was talking about, and that’s where I started my retailing career.

Simon: Why did you go to Detroit?

Bodder: There was no work. See, the fuse plant shut down and the steel company shut down, and the automobile industry was

picking up, and they had been in here recruiting people to come to Detroit. So I went to Detroit and started to work for

the Studebaker automobile group.

Simon: Why did you come back?

Bodder: Because my girl was here. (laughter)

41 Located in Bethlehem, Pennsyvlania. 42

The Central Railroad of New Jersey (also known as Jersey Central Railroad) was chartered in 1831. The railroad’s mainline ran from Jersey City west to

Phillipsburg, Easton, Bethlehem, Allentown, Wilkes-Barre and Scranton in Pennsylvania. 43 A Bethlehem Steel Corporation facility located in Redington, Pennsylvania that was responsible for producing and test firing large guns. 44

Studebaker Brothers Manufacturing Company produced automobiles in Detroit, Michigan, but moved these operations to South Bend, Indiana in the 1920s. 45

Built in 1890, this was the largest machine shop of Bethlehem Steel Corporation covering 363,290 square feet with 159 production machines.

Simon: That’s a good reason.

Bodder: I was getting a little homesick. So I left the Studebaker company and got into the retail business. Fortunately, I think

that was one of the best moves I ever made in my life, because I liked working with people and I enjoyed every, every

single minute of it. Not that there weren’t some bad days, which there always are, but I made a host of friends. That’s

one of the reasons that I think because I worked very closely with the Chamber of Commerce46

, I served on the

committee and served in the Chamber of Commerce, served on what is now the DBA, the Downtown Business

Association, and my work in the store finally got me the attention of the people in the Bethlehem Housing Authority47

,

and that’s how I was then appointed to the Bethlehem Housing Authority.

00:37:42 Simon: When you first took this job in merchandising, you hadn’t really had any background in that type of—

Bodder: Except that I had worked Saturdays for George Young, the hatter48

.

Simon: As a clerk?

Bodder: As a clerk. As a clerk. But starting as I did in the retail business, I started in the shipping room unpacking

merchandise, (inaudible) and worked my way all the way until finally I became manager of the Main Street store. Then

I was transferred to Perth Amboy [New Jersey] and I came back to Bethlehem. Then they opened another store on the

South Side. Then we opened up one in Allentown. We opened up one in Reading. We opened up one in Lancaster. I

was finally made supervising manager of all those stores. Then, unfortunately, they went broke, and I went to work for

Mr. Bush at Bush & Bull.

Simon: So this was all in the 20’s [1920] that they opened?

Bodder: 1921, I started in the retail business.

Simon: The store was a kind of department store?

Bodder: Yes, it was a novelty store, like Grants and Kresge’s49

, that sort of thing.

46

Local business networks. 47

Begun in 1939, the Bethlehem Housing Authority owns and operates public housing. 48

Project staff were unable to locate more information about this business.

Simon: They went broke in the Depression50

?

Bodder: Yes.

Simon: How did the city change in the 20’s [1920]? Did they finally get around to paving the streets?

Bodder: Oh, yes, yes, they finally began to pave the streets. I think one of the first concrete streets was from Broad and Main to

Broad and New, as I can remember. I believe that was right. I think that was one of the first quick-drying cement

streets ever put in there. And then gradually all the other streets were blacktopped.

Simon: Mainly in the 20’s [1920]?

Bodder: Yes.

Simon: Did the automobile change the business downtown in the 20’s [1920]? Was it good for it more than bad for it? Or

could you tell?

Bodder: Well, you couldn’t tell too much. I mean, the automobile wasn’t quite that prominent as it is today.

Simon: Still a luxury item.

Bodder: In those days, it was still a luxury item. Even though you could buy a Ford with 700 or 800 dollars, it was still a luxury

item.

Simon: You remember what your salary was when you first started with the department store?

Bodder: Yes, I do. I started for ten dollars a week and worked two weeks and then I was raised to twenty dollars a week.

Simon: Was that pretty good money?

49 S.S. Kresge 5 & 10 was a nationwide chain, which later became Kmart. 50

The Great Depression was a North American and European economic slump, which lasted from 1929 till 1939.

Bodder: Oh, that was pretty good money in those days.

Simon: What kind of hours did the stores keep?

Bodder: We opened up at eight-thirty and closed at six o’clock, and Saturdays we stayed open till ten o’clock Saturday night.

Simon: A lot of people from the outlying areas come in on Saturday?

Bodder: Would come in and Saturday was the real shopping day. Saturday nights, the streets used to be crowded. People

would come over town and do their shopping.

Simon: Did you get a lot of trade from the South Side or was that pretty self-contained?

Bodder: Oh, we got some trade, because we had a different type of merchandise, particularly in the Ross store. It was new and

it was something different, and, of course, the other stores, Bush & Bull and Lerch & Rice51

, they got some trade from

the South Side. But the big clothing stores were on that side of the river. The only clothing store on this side was

Louie Reese (sp?). He had a clothing store.

Simon: What about the steel executives and the faculty people? Were they the kind of people who you referred to off to

Allentown, Philadelphia to do their shopping a lot, people with a little more to spend?

Bodder: Having known quite a few of them personally, I would refer my company to them. I would refer it.

00:42:35 Simon: Where did you live in the 20’s [1920]?

Bodder: I lived at 3rd Avenue and Prospect.

Simon: Same place?

51

A general department store that was located on Main Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Bodder: Yes, 3rd Avenue and Prospect. Later on back in the 30’s [1930], I built a home out on 7th Avenue, and after my father

passed away, we moved back to my mother’s home, the old homestead at 3rd Avenue and Prospect, and I lived there

until I moved here to the Bodder House52

.

Simon: So you lived most of your life in the house that your grandfather built.

Bodder: That’s right, my grandfather, my great-grandfather.

Simon: And your great-grandfather.

Bodder: That’s right.

Simon: And that house is still standing?

Bodder: It’s still standing and it still has the original slate roof on it. They don’t build houses like that today.

00:43:26 Simon: No, indeed. Anything else about the 20’s [1920] that comes to your mind? (pause) The city had a pretty general air of

prosperity about it?

Bodder: Yes, they did pretty good back in those days. There was a lot of building going on, and things were fairly good.

Simon: What about Prohibition53

? Was that very well enforced?

Bodder: Yes, it was. It was. Oh, there were a few places you could buy moonshine in. Back in those days, everybody and his

brother had a special recipe how to make near-beer, you know. But it was pretty well enforced.

Simon: Were there any changes in the social activities, things to do, movies now that perhaps you didn’t have before?

Bodder: Well, Kurtz Brothers built their nice theater on Broad Street and their wonderful restaurant, which at that time was

about 25 years ahead of anybody else. They had one of the finest restaurants in the city, but, again, people back in those days did not go out to eat like they do today. But we had some good shows. Used to be some wonderful shows

52 Henry A. Bodder House Retirement Homes located on Leibert Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 53

From 1920 to 1933 it was illegal to manufacture, transport, import, export, sell, and consume alcohol and alcoholic beverages in the United States.

over at the old Kurtz Theater54

, dandy shows, and then, of course, many folks would recall the (inaudible) minstrel

show55

that we used to give every year for the benefit of the Tobacco Fund for the boys in the war. Then, of course,

there was the Grand Ole Opry over at Wyandotte Street [south side Bethlehe], which had many shows.

Simon: Were you involved in any civic groups, clubs, organizations in that period?

Bodder: Not at that particular time. The only activity city-wise was when I was working in the store business, except I was one

of the founders of the West Side Republican Club. I was president for seven years, and we moved from North Street to

our present location, which was at 11th Avenue and Broad Street.

00:46:12 Simon: Let’s talk about the Depression a little bit then. Obviously you were hit because your firm went out of business.

(recording paused)

Bodder: We didn’t suffer too much during the Depression. I was then working for Bush & Bull. Even though our salary was

cut, I had a steady job, so I really can’t discuss that from any real serious viewpoint. I mean, we had to sacrifice a lot of

things, but I still had a job.

Simon: How did it change retailing practices?

Bodder: Oh, well, back then you could buy—I can remember we used to sell men’s shirts on a Dollar Day at two for a dollar,

sell sheets at a dollar a piece. I mean, prices were very, very low then.

Simon: They cut their margin of profit quite a bit.

Bodder: Yes, very much, very much.

Simon: A lot of promotions and giveaways?

Bodder: All types of giveaways. Nothing compared to what they’re doing today, but, I mean—I can’t think of anything else.

54

Charles and John Kurtz opened the Kurtz Theatre on 30 Broad Street in 1921. The theatre was purchased by A.R. Boyd Enterprises in 1934 and subsequently

renamed the Boyd Theatre. 55

Variety shows performed by white men who would blacken their face.

Simon: How did the Depression affect the town otherwise? Do you think it suffered very badly?

Bodder: Well, again, as I said, it didn’t affect me too much, but some of my neighbors it affected pretty severely, very severely.

Simon: Many people seemed to lose their houses in town?

Bodder: Yes, yes, that was a sad thing. Many people lost their homes. And, of course, the banks went bad.

Simon: Did any fail?

Bodder: Yes, the (inaudible) Trust Company failed, and the Bethlehem Trust Company mergered [sic] with the Lehigh Valley

National Bank and the First National Bank.

Simon: Did the labor troubles of the late 30’s [1930] create a really big stir in town?

Bodder: There were two strikes that I recall, but they weren’t of very long duration. I mean, they weren’t too serious. We used

to go over to 3rd Street and watch the state police come out on horseback and disperse the crowd, you know. It was an

interesting thing to see how those horses operated, you know. But the labor situation then wasn’t nearly as erratic as it

is today. (pause)

00:49:41 Simon: Let’s talk about some of your activities with the Housing Authority now. How did you first get involved in that?

Bodder: Well, I was appointed to take the place of Major Coyle56

, who resigned. Major Coyle was an executive with the

Weston Dodson Coal Company57

. I was appointed to take his place. Back then, two of the Housing Authority members were appointed by the governor, and three by the mayor of the city. Now that has all changed. They are all appointed by the mayor of the city. I served out that term. I was reappointed and reappointed and reappointed. Strangely enough, being a registered Republican, I was appointed to two five-year terms by Democratic governors,

mostly through the influence of now Congressman Rooney58

, because Congressman Rooney’s also served on the

56 William R. Coyle (b. 1878 d. 1962) served as a Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Pennsylvania in the 1920s and 1930s. 57 Established in 1859, Weston Dodson & Company was a coal and distribution company located in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 58

Frederick B. Rooney, Jr. served in the Pennsylvania State Senate from 1958 until 1963 and the United States Congress from 1963 till 1978.

Housing Authority. Back then we had a pretty good Authority. Bob Pfeifle59

was the mayor, and he was very, very

interesting, a very interesting character.

Simon: Tell me a little about him.

Bodder: Well, Bob was hard of hearing, and he had one of these old-type batteries that used to turn up, you know, and we’d sit

together across the table. Andy Litzenberger60

, who was also a member of the board, Andy Litzenberger was the man

in charge of all Lehigh University property years ago. Bob couldn’t hear very well, and he used to say to me, ‘What

does Andy say?’ when we were making a motion. I said, ‘Andy said it’s all right that we vote that way.’ But Bob was

very, very honest and he was a very sympathetic man. We know or found out later that many times the widows

couldn’t pay their rent, and Bob Pfeifle paid their rent so they wouldn’t be let go. But he was a little hardheaded. Of

course, he was a good contractor, and if he saw the contractors doing anything wrong, he really used to light into them.

Simon: You got involved in this in ’45 [1945]61

, is that right?

Bodder: Yes.

Simon: Was there much public housing in Bethlehem before then?

Bodder: None.

Simon: None?

Bodder: None. And if it hadn’t been for Robert Pfeifle, who was mayor at that time, there never would have been any public

housing.

Simon: The government WPA62

, PWA63

, hadn’t built anything?

59

Robert Pfeifle served as Mayor of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania from 1930 to 1950. He was elected on a ticket targeting crime. 60

Andrew W. Litzenberger (d. 1965) was an architect who worked for Bethlehem Steel and at Lehigh University as superintendent of buildings and grounds. He

served on Bethlehem’s planning commission and was a director of the Bethlehem National Bank. 61

Bodder was appointed as a Commissioner of the Bethlehem Housing Authority on September 10, 1945.

Bodder: No, they hadn’t built anything. But he was very much interested in providing homes for the elderly and for the less

fortunate. The first housing that was built was the ones over on the South Side. No, wait a minute. The first housing

was built out on Pembroke Road for the war workers, which is now torn down, Clearview Village. That’s torn down.

Simon: That was built during the war?

Bodder: Yes.

Simon: By the federal government?

Bodder: That’s right. And then the next housing was over on the South Side.

Simon: South Terrace?

Bodder: South Terrace. Then came Pembroke, and then the state put some houses in there, and then Parkridge out at Central

Park. Then came the first elderly homes were these single homes out on Pembroke Road, the Bob Pfeifle Homes.

Those were named after Bob Pfeifle. Those were the first elderly. Then the next elderly was the Litzenberger, and that

is where the old South Bethlehem Brewing Company64

was. Then after Litzenberger was finished, then the next two

buildings were put up was the Ralph J. Bartholomew Home and this one here65

.

Simon: When you first started, how bad was the housing problem in the city? How many people seemed to need some sort of

subsidized housing?

Bodder: Oh, well, I would say even back in those days we had between three and four hundred people made application for it.

There was a real need for it, just as there’s a real need for more senior citizen housing today.

62 Passed in 1935, the WPA originally stood for Works Progress Administration. It was part of President Roosevelt’s New Deal and employed people to carry out

public works projects. 63

As part of President Roosevelt's 1933 New Deal, this agency was responsible for major public works construction projects including dams and bridges,

warships, hospitals and schools. 64 From 1901 to 1954 the South Bethlehem Brewing Company was located at 225 East 4th Street, Bethlehem, Pennslyvania. 65

South Terrace, Pembroke Village, Parkridge, Pfeifle House, Litzenberger House, Bartholomew House and Bodder House are all public housing projects

managed by the Bethlehem Housing Authority.

Simon: So the first project that the Housing Authority sponsored was the South Terrace project?

Bodder: That’s right.

Simon: And that was with federal subsidy.

Bodder: Federal subsidy.

Simon: When was that opened up, about?

Bodder: Oh, dear. I just can’t recall.

Simon: In the 40’s [1940]?

Bodder: Yes, somewhere there.

Simon: Most of the people that moved into there, were they steel-working families?

Bodder: Yes.

Simon: Was there any opposition to public housing or to locating it on the North Side? Were a lot of people content to have it

as long as you kept it over there?

Bodder: To my recollection, there was no visible amount of objection to it. I mean, when we built this place and when we built

the one over, there were no public meetings or hearings or anything like that. We didn’t run up against that situation.

Simon: What about with Pembroke now? When did they start on Pembroke Avenue, in the late 40’s [1940].

Bodder: Yes, in the late 40’s [1940].

Simon: That’s a pretty big piece of property out there.

Bodder: Yes, that is.

Simon: What was that before?

Bodder: That was the old Weaver farm.

Simon: It was a farm.

Bodder: It was a farm.

Simon: The city didn’t really extend that far then, beyond Stefko Boulevard.

Bodder: No, that was a farm. That was the old Weaver farm.

Simon: And the families that started to move in there, sort of a mixed group, elderly, or what was it?

Bodder: No, they weren’t too many elderly when they first opened up, but they were mixed group, you know, younger people

and some elderly, but there wasn’t as much emphasis on the elderly back then as there is today.

Simon: Did you have any race problem with housing in Bethlehem?

Bodder: Very minor, very minor. I mean, oh, there was always some little disturbances, but they were always pretty well kept

under control. We really never had any serious trouble in my tenure on the Housing Authority.

Simon: You were on it for 26 years.

Bodder: That’s right.

Simon: Till ’71 [1971].

Bodder: On the Housing Authority and I was chairman of the board for eight terms.

Simon: Eight terms. And this building is named in your honor.

Bodder: That’s right. That was my pay.

Simon: That’s a wonderful monument.

Bodder: Yes, sir.

Simon: Was there any salary at all for it?

Bodder: No.

Simon: No salary?

Bodder: No salary, even though we were accused of getting something under the table, but there was never any salary, never

any salary. I had a peculiar experience. I came home last spring with a new taxi driver from town, and he was new.

He didn’t even know how to get here, so I had to tell him how to get here. As we drove up Leibert Street, there’s a

plaque on the outside of building with my name on it. He said, ‘Who’s the gink they named this place after?’ I said,

‘Well, you’re looking right at him.’ I thought he’d fall out of the taxicab. (laughter)

Simon: It’s a wonderful monument, though.

Bodder: Well, it was a great experience and I was very happy that I could do something for those less fortunate than I was. I

learned a lot about building and I learned a lot about other things, and I learned a lot about human nature, come in

contact with all ethnic groups and that sort of thing. It was really a wonderful experience.

Simon: Do you think the Public Housing Program on the whole has been a very successful one?

Bodder: In this particular area. Now, I mean, in some areas no, because in particular in the big cities, it’s been more or less of a

disaster because, unfortunately, a lot of those people feel that the government owes them a living, owes them housing,

owes them this. They don’t take care of the properties. They destroy things. It’s really terrible. But, now, here in

Bethlehem, we have a very fine clientele, very fine. Oh, you have one or two occasional things, but other than that, I

would say the public housing here is in excellent shape. The only thing I hope is that they are applying for it and that

they’ll get more homes for the elderly because each year there are more elderly, and they appreciate their homes and

they take good care of them and they never have any trouble.

Simon: So you don’t think the problem is with the program. It was with—

Bodder: The individuals.

Simon: Some of the people.

Bodder: That’s right. Not the program.

Simon: Been very successful in Bethlehem.

Bodder: I would say so. And many other cities, but in some cities, Philadelphia is in a terrible mess, terrible mess, simply

because a lot of these people, their rents are reasonable but they expect so much more, and the housing authorities just

don’t have the money to give it to them. They can’t put the things in that they want. You know what I’m saying? And

they forget that they’re paying, I would say, almost little or nothing for their nice home. But they don’t respect it.

They just bust up everything. It’s really too bad. But here in the valley here, Easton, Allentown, Bethlehem, things

are, I would say, in very good shape.

Simon: Has Bethlehem done more in public housing than the other cities?

Bodder: Yes. Yes, at this time we have more public housing than either Easton or Allentown.

Simon: Is this because the city put in any contribution or just that the Housing Authority was more aggressive?

Bodder: Well, we were more aggressive here. Bob Pfeifle realized that the elderly were more and more elderly, and we made

application for these places, and we were just lucky to get our share.

Simon: It wasn’t a matter of the city putting up or not putting up dollars?

Bodder: No, no. The city just makes the concession as far as the city and county, as far as the taxes are concerned. See, we pay,

in lieu of taxes, we pay a certain amount in lieu of taxes if there is any money left, you see. Fortunately, I believe, if

my memory serves me right, there was always a certain amount of money that we could pay, go to the city and the

county and to the schools.

Simon: And you would credit Pfeifle in particular with that?

Bodder: I would credit Bob Pfeifle with the success of public housing in Bethlehem. There’s an interesting thing going to

happen. His daughter or his granddaughter is writing a memoirs of Bob Pfeifle66

, which she hopes to have printed

maybe next year, and that will give a complete résumé of Bob Pfeifle’s activities in the city of Bethlehem, and I’m

waiting patiently to read it. She was up here and spent a whole day with me going over some of the things that I

remember about her father, and that was because Bob Pfeifle was really a very, very marvelous fellow. A staunch

Democrat. But when Truman came through here one time on one of his campaigns, Bob Pfeifle said, ‘I don’t care for

the old S.B.’ He said, ‘I’m mayor, I’ll go down and shake hands with him, but I’ll be damned if I’ll do anything else.’

And he didn’t. He went down on the platform as mayor, shook hands with him, and walked off the platform. (laughter)

That’s the kind of a guy Bob Pfeifle was.

01:03:15 Simon: Any other presidents or presidential candidates ever come through here?

Bodder: Oh, I can remember Teddy Roosevelt67

coming through here.

Simon: Teddy Roosevelt. Tell me about it.

Bodder: Well, there was a tower down there at the rail—at the Main Street crossing, and the train pulled up across the crossing,

so the crossing was clear, and they had one of these coaches on the back end. I was standing on the steps of this

watchman’s tower, and I could have reached over and touched Teddy Roosevelt as he was coming through there.

Simon: Which campaign was that? Is that 1912?

Bodder: Yeh, I think it was the Bull Moose.

Simon: The Bull Moose campaign68

.

66 Dare to be Brave was authored by Frank Orpe and Jean Pfeifle McQuade in 1977. 67

Theodore Roosevelt was the 26th

President of the United States.

Bodder: Yes.

Simon: Was that a pretty exciting event in town?

Bodder: Oh, it was really an exciting event.

01:04:23 Simon: Let’s talk about some of the other activities you got into. Later on, you said, you were involved in some organizations

and clubs in town.

Bodder: I was interested—we used to have an Advertising Club here, made up of all the advertisers, and I was active in the

Chamber of Commerce, served on several committees. And while president of the Advertising Club, I made a trip to

Denver, Colorado, to a convention. This is very interesting. I got up out there at the Brown Palace to cast my ballot for

the incoming president, whose name was Younggreen (sp?) from Ohio. Just before I sat down, some fellow about four

rows back hollered up, ‘Hey, are you from West Bethlehem or South Bethlehem?’ I turned around. I said, ‘My

goodness, what does he know?’ He motioned for me to come back, so I went back, and he said, ‘Where are you from,

West Bethlehem or South Bethlehem?’ I said, ‘I’m from West Bethlehem. Why?’ He said, ‘Is that old Howard

Foehring69

still alive, (laughter) and Scrap Johnson?70

’ I said, ‘Yeah. What do you know about Howard Foehring?’

He said, ‘I’m a graduate of the old Bethlehem Prep School.’ He was working for the Chicago Tribune. So you never

know.

Simon: I met Howard Foehring. He lived in my apartment building when I first moved in for a couple of years.

Bodder: You never know.

Simon: Did he have quite a reputation in town as a—

68

Failing to get the Republican nomination in 1912, Theodore Roosevelt and his supporters created the Progressive Party, which was nicknamed the Bull Moose

Party. 69 Project staff were unable to locate additional information about this individual. 70

Established in 1909 as a social club for Bethlehem Steel executives, it also had rooms for management trainees to board. The building is located on New Street

in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Bodder: Howard Foehring?

Simon: Yes.

Bodder: Oh, yes.

Simon: Tough character?

Bodder: Well, he wasn’t too tough. He wasn’t too tough, but he was a marvelous bridge player. I remember well when his first

wife died. There was an explosion in his home. One of these hot water things blew up. She was killed. Lived down at

the corner where the gas station is now, at the corner, 8th Avenue and Broad Street.

Simon: Were those kinds of tragic accidents more common in those days than they are today?

Bodder: Oh, yes, yes. I mean, because it was a small community, you know.

Simon: Yeh, everybody knew.

Bodder: Everybody knew everybody else.

Simon: Were you in the Bethlehem Club?

Bodder: No, I was never a member of the Bethlehem Club71

.

Simon: Involved with the Masons or anything like that?

Bodder: Yes, I was a former member of the Masonic Lodge72

, the Blue Lodge, the Knights Templar chapter, Tall Cedars.

71 Established in 1909 as a social club for Bethlehem Steel executives. The Club located on New Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania also had rooms for

management trainees to board. 72

Masons are fraternal societies that perform charitable work. The Lodge mentioned here is located on 202 Wyandotte Street on Bethlehem’s south side and

was once the Elisha Packer Wilbur mansion, which was purchased by the Masons in 1924.

Simon: Were a good many of the businessmen in the Masons?

Bodder: Oh, yes, quite a few of them. (pause)

01:07:40 Simon: What are some of your reflections on the way that the town has changed physically?

Bodder: Well, physically, it has become quite a city. I can recall when Rosemont73

was nothing but fields, when Elizabeth

Avenue was known as Huddlesville, and Elliott’s Heights was only a farm. It has become very citified.

Simon: What did this Huddlesville come from?

Bodder: Well, there was a man by the name of Huddle, had a store out there, and it was always just known as Huddlesville,

which is now—well, it’s north of Elizabeth Avenue. That entire section out there was known as Huddlesville. Bill

Heller was one of the first developers of the other section out there. Bill Heller was one of the first managers of the

new Hotel Bethlehem74

when we put it up. Everybody donated some money towards that building. I bought one brick,

and I think that cost me $100 that time when they were having the drive.

Simon: This was for the hotel?

Bodder: Yes.

Simon: This was a civic drive thing?

Bodder: Yes.

Simon: Wasn’t it a private concern, though?

Bodder: Well, it was a stock concern. We took out stocks. It was a holding corporation. But that was a big event when they

built the new hotel.

73 A residential subdivision on the west side of Bethlehem. 74

Built on the site of the former Eagle Hotel in 1921, the Hotel Bethlehem is located at 437 Main Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Simon: That was when, in the early 20’s [1920]?

Bodder: Oh, gee, I just can’t recall the date any longer. (pause) I’m just thinking now and looking at the picture of the old bridge

up there. Not the station, the bridge. What a sad thing it is that they didn’t—now that we’re all so historic-minded, that

they didn’t preserve that.

Simon: The old covered bridge.

Bodder: The old covered bridge.

Simon: Is that the old Eagle Hotel behind it, I think?

Bodder: No, no, no. No, that’s the Lehigh Valley office over there. That’s still there. And that iron bridge is still there.

Simon: You’re looking from north to south.

Bodder: The Eagle Hotel was up on Main Street.

Simon: That’s the old covered bridge.

Bodder: That’s the old covered bridge.

Simon: Was there a trolley across there or was it too narrow?

Bodder: No, no, too narrow.

Simon: Just a trolley on the New Street.

Bodder: On the New Street Bridge.

Simon: Was there one on the Hill-to-Hill75

when that was finished?

75 Located in Bethlehem, PA, construction began in 1922 on this concrete arch bridge that passes PA 378 over the Lehigh River.

Bodder: The tracks were there, but they never ran a car over it. Put the tracks in, but they never ran a car over it. Back in those

days, they said it cost the traction company $20,000 to put the tracks in there, and they never ran a car over it. (pause)

That’s a picture of the old lock.

Simon: When did the canal stop being used?

Bodder: Oh, dear. I don’t remember that.

Simon: Was that a pretty popular recreation?

Bodder: Oh, up the tow path yes, and then used to go canoeing and boating.

Simon: Did you go skating on it?

Bodder: Oh, yes, wonderful skating on the canal, wonderful skating.

Simon: What about swimming?

Bodder: Yes.

Simon: A little dirty?

Bodder: It was a little muddy, and then used to jump, dive off the canal boats if they had a good (inaudible). That was

dangerous. You might have got sucked under the canal boat. But that was a thriving business. (recording paused)

01:12:09 Bodder: I remember when the boys first went off the local (inaudible), whatever it was, I forget, went off to fight Villa years

ago, down in Mexico.

Simon: Pancho Villa, yeh.

Bodder: Well, they went on the Central Railroad right out of that station, and the band started to play ‘Nearer My God To Thee’

as the train pulled out, you know, and three women fainted and fell over into the canal. (laughter)

Simon: Did they do things like that during World War I, ceremonies at the train station, the boys went out of town?

Bodder: Yeh, yeh. This (inaudible) Tobacco Club I talked about, they sent them a package of cigarettes and shaving equipment

and all that sort of thing.

Simon: To each boy.

Bodder: To each boy as he left, yes.

Simon: Did they have a parade in town on Armistice Day76

?

Bodder: A parade? You never saw anything like it in your life.

Simon: Tell me about it.

Bodder: I was working at Redington, and the morning train came up, the Buffalo train, and the fireman wrote on a piece of

paper and wrapped it around a hunk of coal and threw it over to the watchman at the gate that the war was over, and

everybody quit. We all went up, walked to Freemansburg and got on the trolley car and came up to Bethlehem, and

what a parade. Everybody came out of the steel company. They took the trucks. You never saw such a parade in all

your life.

Simon: Did just everybody came out of their work?

Bodder: Everybody came out. Everybody came out. Everybody went and celebrated. It was really fantastic.

Simon: Any particular aspects of it you remember?

Bodder: Yes.

Simon: People riding around the street in trucks?

76 Armistice Day marks the agreement between the Germans and the Allies to end World War I on November 11, 1918.

Bodder: Oh, in those days, the women worked in the shop and wore coveralls, you know, and everybody was sitting on the

trucks. Everybody was out and everybody was extremely happy that the war was over, except we. The day after the

armistice was signed, we learned that my brother would never come home. He died in the First World War. So we

were all happy that the war was over, but it wasn’t (inaudible) thing for us. So I lost a brother in the First World War.

Simon: Was that kind of outpouring repeated in the Second World War? Did they have that kind of parade again?

Bodder: No, no, no. There wasn’t—I won’t call it enthusiasm, but there wasn’t the same kind of—I don’t know just what words

to use, in the Second World War. I mean, there was some demonstration, but nothing like at the end of the First World

War. And out of that, even today occasionally on television you’ll hear some of the good songs that came out of the

First World War. Nothing came out of the Second World War that amounts to anything. These other songs live on

forever and ever, you know.

Simon: Do you think it was because it was the second time we’d gone through it, it was a grimmer task?

Bodder: Well, I really don’t know. I really don’t know what to tell you.

Simon: Do you remember Pearl Harbor Day77

?

Bodder: Oh, yes, yes, I remember Pearl Harbor.

Simon: How did it seem to you? Did you feel less of the enthusiasm that had been around during World War I, the optimism,

maybe?

Bodder: No, I don’t think I did, but still there didn’t seem to be that urge to rush in and join the army as there was in the First

World War, you know what I’m saying.

Simon: Waited around till you got drafted?

Bodder: That’s right, most of them. A lot of them did.

Simon: Was the rationing a severe problem?

77 December 7 commemorates the day in 1941 when the Japanese attacked the Pearl Harbor naval base in Hawaii.

Bodder: Oh, it wasn’t too bad, and then occasionally some friend would have some extra coupons and you always did a little

chiseling here and there, you know, like they do today. You could get an occasional pound of butter from your butcher

or something like that.

01:17:08 Simon: You were in merchandising then. Were you affected badly by the rationing?

Bodder: Not too bad, not too bad. Oh, we had (inaudible) as far as shirts and that sort of thing were concerned, but it wasn’t too

bad.

Simon: Better than the Depression?

Bodder: Oh, yes, much better. Much better.

Simon: Were you worried about the firm going under during the Depression, Bush & Bull78

?

Bodder: No, because they were excellent financial condition, the old Bush & Bull firm. See, they had another store in Easton

and they had one in Bethlehem. In all, they had five stores at one time.

Simon: Did they let a lot of their clerks go, fire?

Bodder: As I recall, no. Of course, they weren’t overstaffed at any time, you know what I’m saying.

Simon: Girls worked hard?

Bodder: Yes.

Simon: How has retailing changed since you first got into it?

Bodder: Well, the one big change that I see is, unfortunately, there is no more loyalty to any one store. Today it’s price.

Everybody’s looking how cheap they can get it. I mean, there was a time years ago that your customers were pretty

78

Headquartered in Easton, Pennsylvania, the Bush and Bull Department Store had a location on Main Street in Bethlehem.

loyal, you know, but that has all gone. The same thing is happening with your neighbors. The one thing that has gone

out of this situation, as I see it, is there is no more neighborliness. That’s gone. You used to know your neighbor. If

they were sick, they’d come and help you, and all that today you don’t even—

(end of recording)