The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 097 Michael Simmons

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW

Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

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Episode 97: Michael Simmons

In this episode, Travis speaks with successful entrepreneur Michael Simmons. Michael is one of the top

young entrepreneurs and has been commended and recognized for his achievements. Through the years

Michael has helped budding entrepreneurs and even students realize their dream of starting a business

and uncover their potential through his speaking events and tours around schools and conferences

around the country. Michael also shares reaches out to entrepreneurs through his column on Forbes.

Michael and Travis shares valuable insights on how entrepreneurs can be successful in their business.

Entrepreneurs can learn from Michael's past experiences and how he was able to overcome failures and

hardships to get to where he is today. They also shared the importance of overcoming your fears by re-

framing it in order to avoid its paralyzing effect that prevents us from taking action. These and so much

more are what's in store in this episode of the Entrepreneur's Radio Show.

Doing Good While Doing Well

TRAVIS: Hey, it's Travis Lane Jenkins, welcome to episode number 97 of the Entrepreneur's Radio

Show, a production of rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com. Today, I'm going to introduce you to Michael

Simmons. As always I like to introduce you to rock star entrepreneurs because their path to success and

their keys to success are so critical in instructing you or helping you find that next level of success within

your own business, and Michael's no different. If you've been listening to the show for any amount of time,

you know I love it when people achieve success in different ways, and Michael is one of those people.

Although he's very young he's extremely innovative in the way that he's found success and how he

monetizes things, makes money through his business. Now, he was named by Businessweek as one of

the country's top 25 entrepreneurs under 25 and profiled in US Today, and the AOL Homepage, CBS,

NBC, and ABC. He went on to have some pretty extreme successes and failures, and then of course

success again. So, there's lots of wisdom packed in this interview from such a young guy. And you'll find

that he's very candid about what he did wrong and what it took to get back on track.

Before we get started I want to thank a couple of people for writing reviews on iTunes. And so, where I

left off last time is by T Turner Trucking. He left us a five star review, thank you for that. Jamie G left us a

5 star review as well on iTunes, thank you Jamie. JV by the Sea left us a 4 star review, thank you for that.

It says great content for the budding entrepreneur. And so listen, again, I want to drive home the

importance of leaving ratings and reviews to the show. Number 1, it validates to me and my team what

we're doing is making a difference with you guys. Also, it gets the attention of iTunes and indicates to

them that the show's worth sharing to more people within their network. And ultimately that drives more

people to the show. So, if you find value in the show and you'd like to take a couple of minutes, rate,

review the show. I would really appreciate it and I'll thank you on air for that. So, now that we've got that

out of the way I want to remind you to try and stay with us until the very end if you can because I want to

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share some inspiration with you beyond the interview that we're going to have here. Plus I have a contest

that I want to tell you about where you'll have a chance to win $73,000 in cash and prizes plus my

personal Lamborghini. So, be sure and hangout with me until the end. Also, if you'd like for me to take a

look at your business and help you work through a problem that's going to help you find that next level of

success, remember that I have a section on the website at rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com where you

can ask me anything about your business, marketing, management, pricing, anything that you feel like is

holding you back from that next level of success. All you've got to do is click on the button on the little

microphone on the right hand side of the screen. Be sure and give me the quick background of your

business. And I'm going to start releasing short episodes where I answer your questions on the show. I'll

keep your last name private. Also, if you have suggestions for the show just opt-in and send me an email,

and me and my team read every single message that comes through. I'm always looking for ways to

improve your experience with the show here. So now that we've got all that stuff out of the way, let's get

down to business. Without further ado, Michael, welcome to the show.

MICHAEL: Thank you Travis, I'm super excited to be here.

TRAVIS: Yeah man, I'm excited to hang out with you. I don't know if you're familiar with the format of the

show but one of the things that we like to do is share kind of the back story of how you got to where

you're at today. And I know that you're a pretty young entrepreneur but you've accomplished some pretty

cool things in a short period of time. Can you give us that story?

MICHAEL: Yeah, sure. So I've been an entrepreneur since I was 16 years old. A friend and I co-founded

a web development company. And we started at a really good time, 1998, for 2 16 year olds to do a

technology company and people trust in us and are willing to pay us $75, up to even $100 per hour. And

at that age was really when I realized the power of entrepreneurship. This whole different career path

than what I've been exposed to. My mom had gone and worked for the government her entire life so I

didn't realize I could start a business at such a young age.

TRAVIS: Right. And what did you say it was at 16 years old, what were you doing?

MICHAEL: Web Development Company.

TRAVIS: Okay, web development. Alright. And how did that go, how did that venture go?

MICHAEL: It went really well for a high school business. We made about $40,000 our senior year working

about 10 hours per week. And it turned around after we graduated from high school and went off to

different colleges. We just kind of lost passion for it. And also the economy shifted, where a lot of our

clients went out of business.

TRAVIS: Right.





MICHAEL: And in retrospect I think if we had more skills, there's certainly lots of opportunity in web

development but that was would just be a great start to the journey, and very humbling as well.

TRAVIS: Right. Just entrepreneurship training, right? So what happened after that?

MICHAEL: Well, first I will say going through the failure process was really hard and I know that you've

lost everything and rebuilt it. And what was hardest for me wasn't just the financial, although that was

really hard at that time. I remember at one point basically ran out of all money, and even piggy bank type

money.

TRAVIS: Right.

MICHAEL: Ran out of food, and for a period of 4 days all I had was everything that's left over once you've

spent everything, like milk, cinnamon, and sugar, and flour, and basically have what tasted like a

combination of a muffin cake and bread all mixed together. But the hardest part was just the self-identity

of-- before we've been recognized in the media and had won awards. And letting go of the identity of

being a successful entrepreneur was the hardest thing, but probably the biggest reward that I got from the

business and that I carry to me to this day that you don't need to hide your challenges.

TRAVIS: That's a sobering event to go through isn't it?

MICHAEL: Yeah, it definitely is. It's one of those things that I think pain is the best teacher in the world.

TRAVIS: It is.

MICHAEL: But nobody likes being taught by that teacher.

TRAVIS: Right. I've always said there's a weird level of clarity that comes from being on your knees. Not

immediately but when you sit there and think about, and re-examine things. I'm not saying you need to

dwell on it but there's a certain period where you've got to soak it in, and own it, and realize what you did

right, what you did wrong. And then get back up, dust yourself off and move on, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah. And I think there's a lot of behaviors or ways of thinking that the only place or time that

you'll let it go is when you're on your knees and you don't have any other choice. And when things are

going well it's much harder to let go of things that are ultimately destructive behaviors or ways of thinking.

TRAVIS: Right. So how did you come out of that, what steps did you take to move on and get beyond this

lowest of the lows?

MICHAEL: I got really passionate about entrepreneurship education from a few different angles. One it

just had such a dramatic impact on my life. Even if it didn't end working out I knew that I want to be an




entrepreneur for the rest of my life. And I also went through a program called the Network for Teaching

Entrepreneurship. And that was the first time I'd been part of an entrepreneur community and it was a

non-profit. It just got me really excited that I felt like the biggest way that I could have an impact on the

world was by helping to spread this entrepreneurial mindset. So, I started writing articles, and I wrote a

book while I was in college and started speaking on entrepreneurship. And after college, eventually

started bringing in other speakers, other young entrepreneurs and creating a space for them to be

vulnerable and share their stories.

TRAVIS: Right. And so, how long after that did you find success in what you're doing now?

MICHAEL: I don't surely think about things in terms of success or not success. I really feel like things are

much more similar along the whole journey than people realize. So, I feel in some ways just as

successful. So I don't feel like there's one point. There's challenges along the way, you have goals along

the way, and I don't feel like I honestly have less challenges now.

TRAVIS: Right. It's a constant process and your work is never done. I think maybe for me is I view

entrepreneurship as this plane that you're trying to get off the ground, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah.

TRAVIS: And when it takes flight that's when it starts carrying its own weight when it starts paying the

contributors, the founders, when it starts-- it's this baby, it's this infant that's growing and now taking flight.

And that's a form of success, although success is this never ending thing that you're chasing, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah. This idea of success I had like since I was 18 years old, I read Napoleon Hill's Think

and Grow Rich. And one of the things was just setting really big, specific goals. And I'd set a goal for

being a millionaire within a year. And it took many more years to get to that place, to have a business

over a million in revenue. And when we hit that in 2011, I'd say that was a point that we hit that goal that

I'd set. But more than anything else it made me realize I put too much meaning on it. And through our

work I'm surrounded by entrepreneurs who have $10 million businesses and $100 million businesses. So,

it's all part of the continuum.

TRAVIS: Right. And the interesting thing is a million dollars in revenue quite often, depending on what

business model you're in can only represent a 10% net, 20, 30, 50% net, depends on what the business

model it is. And really, when your success is based, and I've been there a couple of times. When your

success is based purely on financial, it is a very hollow victory. A lot of people want to get to that place

and it doesn't make sense to a lot of people when you say money isn't everything. And you really kind of

have to hit that target before it makes sense to you because it's a hollow victory. There's got to be other

things behind it. Have you found that to be true?

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MICHAEL: Yeah, 100%. There's the intellectual understanding and then sometimes you just need to--

even though you know someone, something, you just want to experience it even if you know it's going to

happen.

TRAVIS: Right.

MICHAEL: And I kind of look at my life-- I don't know if it's right or wrong but it works for me right now. I

kind of look around my life from an organizing principle's perspective now where I think about how can I

have the biggest impact. How can I be a great parent, how can I build a network of people that have

similar values and similar paths on their life. And be healthy, be the best person I can. I feel like my

experience had been the best predictors for a high quality of life.

TRAVIS: Right. So that clarity comes the further you walk down that path, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah.

TRAVIS: I didn't have that clarity when I first started either because I started at 25. And so I got a little

later start than you, although I'd always had an entrepreneurial spirit. Innovative, I was willing to push the

buttons and blaze my own trails. So I did do that even younger than 25 but I really struck out on my own

at 25. And my initial goals or objectives really weren't that noble. But as time goes by you change and for

me I don't even know the person that I was 10 years ago from today. And so, has those things, your

values change with the accomplishments in business, or with age, or both. What do you think that

combination is?

MICHAEL: I have a 5-year old and a 3-year old, so having children definitely had a big impact on me.

TRAVIS: Right.

MICHAEL: And it took a while for that impact to happen. So I think the tension that I created was I've

been previously thinking about my life in terms of how can I have this largest impact, how can I reach

millions, billions of people. And with the child you're thinking about how can I have an impact in the life of

one person, or two people for us. So it was hard for me personally to reconcile those two different parts of

myself and switch between them. So I think it led to in a way, thinking about scale at a different level,

different way. My wife and I, we met during our freshman year at NYU, during orientation. So, that was 13

years ago, and we had children in our late 20's and most other young entrepreneurs in the major cities,

they don't have children until they're early to mid 30's. So not having friends with children at the same

time means so I was trying to be the same person in terms of-- and I work really hard on the business and

then I'm going to be a great parent as well. And I feel like that didn't work fully. I had to let go of trying to

be like other people and really just embrace where I was in my journey.

TRAVIS: Just do you, right?




MICHAEL: Yeah. And that's one of those things where it's maybe easier to hear that concept and

intellectually understand it. But really believe that and have permission to do that from your body is a lot

harder.

TRAVIS: It is. And that's the thing about age. It's strange, the older you get, and I'm 48 so I'm quite a bit

older than you. And so here's the encouraging news, you become more and more comfortable in your

skin the older you get. And that in itself gives you permission to do you, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah, 100%.

TRAVIS: Rather than worrying about hitting a note that's not going to resonate with everybody because

it's just not, you're just not. And so, kids definitely will cost that paradigm shift. I had a child at a very

young age, and so that helped me fast forward some things also. Segue me into what you're doing now

and what the business is that you scale to the million dollars plus, which is a feat in itself. So

congratulations on that.

MICHAEL: So, I sort of had 25% of my time on Forbes. I'm writing for Forbes on relationship building, and

then the other percent on Impact. It's the organization my wife and I co-founded in 2006 where over the

years we celebrated the country's top entrepreneurs and connected them to ways to give back through

speaking, and writing, and sharing their story.

TRAVIS: I like that.

MICHAEL: And so, we've done over 500 events. I think it might even be 600 now. And also, we've done

events at the White House, in the United Nations, and Capitol Hill, and it's been a great journey.

TRAVIS: And so, when you say give back through speaking, clarify that for me.

MICHAEL: So, our events we started in 2006. My wife and I created something, at the time it was called

the Extreme Entrepreneurship Tour where we actually got a 31-foot RV wrapped it in our company's logo,

and started going to college campuses and doing half day events. And bringing in young entrepreneurs

as speakers. A lot of the campuses we've gone to are community colleges, or ones that are in major

metropolitan areas where they don't have a thriving ecosystem yet. And we're targeting students who

don't even realize that entrepreneurship is a possibility yet. And exposing them to people that are similar

age, similar background that they can relate to and see this new path for themselves.

TRAVIS: I love that. And so, what have you found that is the switch that ignites that interest for those

young people?

MICHAEL: I've really come to believe in the power of storytelling. And I think it's really powerful when you

hear a success story of someone that relates to you, that you can relate to and see yourself in. And you




can also see the challenges of their life as well. Especially people from different backgrounds where they

don't know anyone who's an entrepreneur. They see a success story in so many-- It's easy to write it off

sometimes as well. They say, "Oh, that person they start out with money. That person they came from

this background, I couldn't do that." And what we've really been known for and really pushed with our

speakers is to open up about their challenges and be vulnerable. Not just talk about 5 years ago I had

challenges but I've overcome them all. But really talk about how challenges are part of the journey, that

they still have setbacks. And it's really hard for entrepreneurs to maybe open up about these things, but I

think transformation happens when they do.

TRAVIS: I like that. And then that parallel so much of who I am and what I do, right? Now, you probably

don't know this, I come from a very, very rough neighborhood, very low income background, gunshots

every night.

MICHAEL: Really?

TRAVIS: Yeah, very, very tough place. And so, I was fortunate enough to really become incredibly

successful. And for years one of the things I wanted was a Lamborghini. Us boys are just conditioned for

stuff like that, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah, 100%.

TRAVIS: Yeah. And so when I got older I still had that dream, I had other things that I wanted to make a

difference. But I still had that dream. But then I thought I couldn't do that. I'd be judged, I'd come off as

arrogant, I'd come off as all those other things. And finally one day, talking about doing me. I decided this

is my dream, this is what I want, this is what I care about. And it led to something that was really

surprising for me because I've never really been an outwardly flaunting my success or wealth with

anybody. But it opens doors of conversation with kids all over the place. And the correlation here is I

spark more interesting conversations with young kids about being an entrepreneur through that

Lamborghini than you would ever imagine, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah.

TRAVIS: And I didn't see that. Kids are just in awe. I'm telling you, they stop what they're doing, groups of

them. And come stand 30 feet away from the car and don't want to say anything, they're embarrassed but

they're just in awe. And I'll say, come on over, take a look at it. And then we'll get to talking and then I'll

say, "You want to know how to get one of these?" They're like, "Yeah." And I said, "Well, you got to

become an entrepreneur."

MICHAEL: Yeah.




TRAVIS: And it really kind of turned the light on for me. And then I look back into my childhood, and that's

what ignited the spark for me. Something, I can't tell you the exact point, but something drove it home for

me that I could dream and that I could potentially live that dream and accomplish that. And that's what got

me started. I remember back all the years people telling me, adults telling me, "You need an education"

but they never took the time to explain why.

MICHAEL: Right.

TRAVIS: As I've reflected on this I've always thought, if they would have just said, "Hey, you love XYZ,

this is how you get it, an education." Because I fought the traditional education, and then ultimately when I

wanted to become extremely successful in my business what did I have to do? Go get an education,

right?

MICHAEL: Yeah, I couldn't agree with everything you said more and for me when I started business

money was definitely my main motivation and I think I remember reading articles about these young

entrepreneurs who could be overnight millionaires. And that was really, really motivating, and I feel like

what motivated me at 23 was different than what motivates me now at 32. And I'm sure it's different in the

future. And I feel like as an educator, one has to kind of go to wherever people are and what motivates

them rather than saying money's bad. I've seen this in different schools or programs, they don't want you

to talk about money, but I think money is a really powerful way to reach students.

TRAVIS: It is. It goes straight to the dream. And so wealth is not created overnight. But you can build a

lifestyle where you travel the world, you drive cars that only movie stars drive. And you can do things that

are special. Now depth comes after that. And so it's okay to start out wanting those types of shallow

things. That's just part of who we are. I don't think that's ever going to-- I've got a sickness for cars, I own

multiple cars, and it's just a sickness of mine that I can't get rid of. But at the same time I'm a deep

person, I care, and I give back, and I'm multi-dimensional. But those are the things that spark that fire.

You may be able to buy yourself a Lamborghini and bring it on the campuses, use it as a ride-off, and that

way inspire the kids through that. I use it as business ride off in mind. So anyways, let's get back to your

business and how your monetizing that. So, it sounds to me like the way that you're making money is, are

you selling sponsorship and probably selling tickets to these events?

MICHAEL: Yes, for our annual events we do that, and then for our school events schools pay a fee to

bring us in as well.

TRAVIS: Oh, okay.

MICHAEL: The students don't pay.

TRAVIS: Oh nice, okay. And so, you probably have multiple ways that you monetize that, right?




MICHAEL: Yeah. Basically all the ways I just mentioned. Post paying, attendees paying, and then

sponsorship are the many ways. We have a membership of young entrepreneurs.

TRAVIS: Okay. So you have like a pay wall that after an event they can come to you and do some

training?

MICHAEL: We don't have anything with the students. We focus a lot on connecting them with the

resources. We've tried but we've never been able to figure out that model with students. But we do have

something for the young entrepreneurs who we recognize. We do a membership. We just actually

launched it last year, they pay to be a member and connect with each other through quarterly retreats and

masterminds, and other ways as well.

TRAVIS: Oh nice. So how many people are in your business?

MICHAEL: We have 3 full-time people and then part-time folks as the needs come up.

TRAVIS: Right. That's nice whenever you can scale a business while keeping the staff small. Typically, a

staff can be one of your biggest overhead expenses. And so, once you put an event on, if these people or

if these kids really love what you're doing how do they stay in touch with you?

MICHAEL: We have a newsletter that we send out. And really what our focus is and why schools bring us

in though is to connect them to other resources.

TRAVIS: Okay.

MICHAEL: So, we're of that we want to be that point where people become aware of the possibility in

their light that they weren't aware of. And then are connected to the resources that the school or the local

community, or other resources that are being offered.

TRAVIS: So, what are those resources? I love that. I love the fact that you're focusing this early on and

getting people-- I guess opening their eyes up to the opportunity. What are those resources that you

typically transition them to?

MICHAEL: So, it varies by community. So, at a school, especially if they have entrepreneurship classes,

or a business playing competition, or a mentorship program, or a major or minor in entrepreneurship. And

then in the communities that could be an accelerator, incubator, co-working space. And then during the

event we just mentioned so there were the basic tools that one could use. And like to get a website or a

phone number. You just don't realize how inexpensive those things can be.

TRAVIS: Right.




MICHAEL: So we just share some of those tools as well.

TRAVIS: So how did you conceptualize this?

MICHAEL: In college I'd written a book and it was doing well and was speaking. And you're realizing that

most people and it's changed a lot in 8 or 9 years. But there wasn't really this awareness of how many

young entrepreneurs are out there and you hear stories here and there. Bill Gates, or Michael Dell, or

Richard Bronson are famous example of the people who started at very young age. But you wouldn't be

exposed to my stories. So the idea is through our network we're just being exposed to hundreds of

people. And how do we help share their stories and make this more scalable. So it's not just me speaking

or my wife speaking, but really more of a business that could scale across the country.

TRAVIS: Yeah. It's really interesting the angle that you come at this. This is really a niche. Is anybody

else doing this?

MICHAEL: I think there's a lot of people, great organizations in the entrepreneurship education space. I'm

not as aware of any of that focus that their focus is getting people who are interested in

entrepreneurship organized side of radar and then getting them to the next level where they are

interested in resources, and on the campus level. But there's a lot of obviously great organizations so

once you have an interest in entrepreneurship there's lots of places to go.

TRAVIS: Right. And so what are the steps. Are you telling me that the steps vary with the location, or is

there a certain set of steps? I've said this several times. I think entrepreneurship is the best self-

improvement program you could ever sign up for.

MICHAEL: Yeah, I 100% agree.

TRAVIS: Yeah. And so, I would love for my daughter to become an entrepreneur, find what her passion is

and pursue it from an entrepreneurial standpoint. What's the beginning steps. Does it vary with the

location or is there a certain set of 5 steps that they need to take to get on this path once you've

awakened the entrepreneur within them?

MICHAEL: Well, the biggest that go for all for most people is the step of overcoming internal fears. And in

my experience that's where most people stop. Most people will say that their biggest challenge in one of

our surveys is raising money. And that's their biggest challenge. So, in terms of specific action steps,

overall one of the biggest things we try to teach is just action oriented thinking. And is taking action in the

first place, and then the skill of how do you take a big idea. You even have this big vision for your life or

something you want to see happen in the world, and then going backwards. And that kind of open way of

thinking and going back to the 3 steps you can take today to push that board is not really taught. It's

unnatural for a lot of people. So, that's the basic thing. Another principle that we really believe in is the

Lean Startup methodology. So talking to customers as soon as possible.




TRAVIS: So let me make sure that I get things right. So, one of the most common things that you coach

people or teach people on is overcoming their fears. How do you help them get beyond their fears? Is it

just as simple as what you're saying, just taking little bitty steps?

MICHAEL: Yeah, I think taking little steps is one of the most important things. And I personally think it's

being surrounded by a community of people that are doing the same thing and going through similar

challenges.

TRAVIS: Right, likeminded people.

MICHAEL: Yeah. So that's where I think our role is to connect people to resources, and those challenges

are at every stage of the business' growth.

TRAVIS: Yeah. You know something that's interesting, I don't know if you've ever given it much time or

thought. But I've spent years and years on reflecting, and writing, and all these other things. And a lot of

times the fears in our mind are much crazier, and mean, and scarier in our mind than they are in reality.

And if you ever just take the time to write them down and get them out of your head to where you can see

them, even put them on a white board, you start to see how silly they are.

MICHAEL: Yeah.

TRAVIS: And for some reason as much as I've thought on these things I didn't get clarity on them until I

wrote it down and looked at it, and then I thought, "Well, that's insane, that's crazy", right? And so there's

just some different type of clarity there. It sounds like you've had some of the same epiphanies.

MICHAEL: Yeah. I feel like re-framing something is really, really powerful. And then actually doing I think

is one of the most powerful. So those 2 combine. So you have this fear doing what you’re afraid of and

then re-framing it before, during, and after is really powerful. And for me, my example of that is just public

speaking ironically. So, first time that I was public speaking I was nervous 2 or 3 weeks beforehand. And

the week before was kind of a shock because I was just feeling stressed about it coming up, and the

whole thing is going to be cancelled. Beforehand my heart's racing, and my mouth is dry. So, but it's

completely, when you re-frame it's really illogical to just-- the body puts so much weight in for doing over

and over, and constantly re-framing it you got comfortable.

TRAVIS: Yeah, just the way that you're thinking about it your brain is releasing chemicals that's causing

all of that.

MICHAEL: Yeah.

TRAVIS: It's really, really insane that we brutalize ourselves like that. And I'm guilty of that. I've brutalized

myself many, many, many times. To exactly on the path that you're talking about to where a whole week




in advance I'm so amped up and worried that I'm going to-- I don't know, do or say something crazy that's

just going to run my credibility or something. And when the time comes and you step into the moment,

once you step into it, it all goes away.

MICHAEL: Yeah. Same for me, once I'm actually speaking, it really goes away. And I think the beautiful

think about our comfort zones is that it expands. The sooner one can confront something then the less it

has to rule your life.

TRAVIS: Right. Exactly. So, one of the things that you mentioned is the Lean Startup. Now, that's a great

book by the way. And he goes into some pretty in-depth stuff in that book. Do you think that book is even

applicable to early stage entrepreneur's, or is too much? Do you think they can get it?

MICHAEL: I think it's a great book. I do feel like in the beginning stages it's not as important till I get

everything perfectly right as much it is like general principles of talking to customers and getting over that

fear.

TRAVIS: Right.

MICHAEL: And I think that's what stops a lot of people. But if you don't have that fear then I think the

product-- the better of going to that, systematically reducing your risk by talking to customers and testing

your assumptions is really powerful, and you could never start a business before. It's really easy to-- I

mean the huge percentage of your assumptions be wrong and even though you may be told that it's really

hard to understand that until you're going through.

TRAVIS: Right. I think one of the most important things that he pointed out in the book was MVP,

minimally viable product.

MICHAEL: Yeah.

TRAVIS: And so that's exactly what you're talking about. Rather than spending all of this time and effort in

trying to build something that's not even tested with actual paying clients. You get it out there, get it

tested, and let their reactions and what they do and don't do guide you on how to make those changes.

Even though I've been in business for many, many years I still get things wrong. And so, the best thing to

do is let people vote with their wallet. If they'll throw some dollars at it then you're on the right track and if

they won't then you've got something wrong.

MICHAEL: Yeah. I really believe and what we're talking about the events is the idea of pre-selling that a

lot of things, things you don't even have to have something created before you start selling it. And so, I

think and to that extent the crowd funding is really amazing and that it really encourages people to pre-

sell. And I think the challenge I personally run to sometimes with pre-selling is that you could be good at

selling something but that could almost obscure--




TRAVIS: Terrible delivery?

MICHAEL: Yeah, well, it could deliver at some level but then it could obscure that you don't have a

complete price market fit but you're just able to sell it. And so that could come to haunt you later where

maybe you’ve been earlier to make sure that it wasn't just your selling ability.

TRAVIS: Yeah, you've definitely got to be able to deliver on what you promise there. And it's kind of like

riding a bucking bull. You got to be willing to get on there and take the bumps, take the lumps, and dial

the thing in. Because selling it is just the beginning, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah.

TRAVIS: Just like your plan. You said your plan over the last 8, 9 years has changed. Well, that's

because you're constantly dialling it in to what does and doesn't work, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah, exactly. And I personally find it hard even to this day at some level is whether it works

or not, that's a really large range. And I believe now more that it's worth spending as much time as

possible to try to get it so like people are raving about it, and just really, really excited about it. They love it

so much. Rather than they're happy with it because it'll be hard to scale if they're not-- if they're happy

with it but they're not going to rebook or they're not going to refer their people.

TRAVIS: Right. So, it's kind of a balancing act, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah.

TRAVIS: Okay. Let's segue into the three questions that I had sent you, the lightning round. Did you have

time to prepare for this?

MICHAEL: Yes, I did.

TRAVIS: Okay, cool. Alright, so, I know you're in your car there, do you need to do anything to get ready

for these 3 questions?

MICHAEL: I don't remember them on top of my head but I reviewed them today and I know they'll come

to me.

TRAVIS: Yeah, I'll ask you, hopefully you've got the answers lodged somewhere in the memory bank. So

the first question is what book or program made an impact on you related to business that you'd

recommend and why?




MICHAEL: So the book that's had a really big impact on me from the beginning was Think and Grow Rich

by Napoleon Hill. So that's more of a personal development, classic book. I'm just realizing how much

personal power one has to have an impact on the world.

TRAVIS: Right.

MICHAEL: And to transform your environment. And from a business book perspective Good to Great has

had a really big impact on me.

TRAVIS: Napoleon Hill's book is one of my all-time favorite books. I've read that or listened to it, read and

listened to it a combination of 5 or 6 times. Absolute one of the best books. I love that book. Do you like to

listen to audio books?

MICHAEL: Yeah, I love audio books.

TRAVIS: Okay. Have you listened to Napoleon Hill's Outwitting the Devil?

MICHAEL: I haven't.

TRAVIS: You've got to. It's sounds like it's about Christianity and it's really about business.

MICHAEL: Thank you, I'm going to purchase that on audible.

TRAVIS: It was so good Michael that when I finished listening to it, I immediately listened to it again. And

it's absolutely brilliant. And it's chilling on some levels because the premises is Napoleon Hill manages to

get an interview with the agreement is that devil has to answer every one of his questions, right?

MICHAEL: Hmm, interesting.

TRAVIS: And answers all the questions honestly. And during the interview, and this won't ruin it because

there's a lot of great things in there. During the interview he asked him several questions about business

and why so few people are successful. And the devil told him, he says, "You don't want me to answer that

question because if I do the truth will make it impossible for you to publish this book." And Napoleon Hill

says, "Oh, okay. That's a little arrogant but go ahead and answer the question anyways." Well, it was

true. He couldn't publish the book, his wife would not let him publish the book because of what the devil

said in the interview. And this book was suppressed from being published for 80 years.

MICHAEL: Really? So it just came out recently.

TRAVIS: Yeah, it just come out 2011.




MICHAEL: Really? Wow. I had no idea.

TRAVIS: Yeah.

MICHAEL: And the guy that reads the devil's part is wickedly scary. He sounds like what you think the

devil would sound like. It's a wonderful book. But the premises is a lot of it is fear is the devil itself, right?

TRAVIS: Fear is what keeps people from achieving the true greatness in their life, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah, I agree.

TRAVIS: And he really goes deep on it. There's a lot. Man, it's just one of my all-time favorites so be sure

and put that on your list, okay?

MICHAEL: Thank you. I love his stuff. Sometimes you just feel like it just goes to this whole other level.

TRAVIS: He does.

MICHAEL: So, I can't wait to go.

TRAVIS: Yeah, I agree with you. Okay, so what's one of your favorite tools or pieces of technology that

you've recently discovered if any, that you'd recommend to other business owners and why?

MICHAEL: I started using Contactually as my CRM. It is an amazing tool because it pulls in from your

Facebook, and Twitter, and LinkedIn networks, and your email. So you never really have to add people to

it, which saves a ton of time and keeps all your emails attached to the people. And for me I use it for also

doing introductions, and sending-- if I have to send 30, 1-on-1 emails to people, it really scales how many

personalized 1-on-1 emails you could send. So, I use it every day.

TRAVIS: And so spell that for me.

MICHAEL: Contact and then UALLY. So Contactually.

TRAVIS: Interesting. And so, it's a CRM, not a replacement for email, it's a CRM, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah, exactly.

TRAVIS: Okay. And for those of you that don't know it's Customer Relationship Management is what

CRM stands for. So that you can keep track of all interactions that goes on with people. What famous

quote would best summarize your belief or your attitude in business?

https://www.contactually.com/

https://www.contactually.com/




MICHAEL: “If not now then when, if not you then who?”

TRAVIS: Great quote.

MICHAEL: And that goes back to this idea of action that now's the right time to do the right thing if you

want to do something and not in the future.

TRAVIS: Right, exactly, 100% agree, excellent quote. Hey, how do people connect with you Michael?

MICHAEL: I'm on Twitter and Facebook, @michaeld as in Daniel Simmons. And then me email is

[email protected].

End of Interview

TRAVIS: Excellent, thank you for that Michael. Remember that you can find all of the links to the books

and resources mentioned here in the show in the show notes. Just go to

rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com. It's a relatively new site that we've been building out that's focused

around giving you all the resources possible to help you grow your business. Before I close the show

today I want to remind you that building a profitable business is a series of formulas. There's a lot of you

that subscribe to the show that haven't signed up for this yet. And it really kind of surprises me because

as you apply formulas to your business your profits become very predictable and starts building long-

term wealth. This is what moves you into a position to help others, which I believe is mine and your

responsibility as entrepreneurs. But you've got to find that next level of success where things stabilize for

you and they're consistent. If you haven't joined the contest, join in. All you have to do is just stay

engaged, answer the questions along the way, and you'll be placed into a sweepstakes where you'll have

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and take that action today and go to rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com, sign up for that. I'll be looking for

you to enter the contest.

I want to close the show today with a quote that comes from Jimmy Dean. And the quote reads, "I can't

change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sales to always reach my destination." Think about

that. This is Travis Lane Jenkins signing off for now, to your incredible success, I'm going to be looking for

you to sign-in to the contest. Take care my friend.






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