Thread: Swatch Group Management Services AG et al v. Invicta Watch Company of America

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1. 12-13-2007 03:00 PM #1

koimaster

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Swatch Group Management Services AG et al v. Invicta Watch Company of America

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Last edited by koimaster; 12-16-2007 at 07:15 PM.

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2. 12-13-2007 03:34 PM #2

liljimmy

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It's probably has to do with swatch borrowing some of Invicta's ideas on a watch design.

Red Greens Philosophy: "If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."

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3. 12-13-2007 05:09 PM #3

Viper

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Originally Posted by liljimmy

It's probably has to do with swatch borrowing some of Invicta's ideas on a watch design.

LOL!

Yeah, Swatch borrowed the scalloped bezel design of the 8926 and put in on their Omegas.

Watch Collection: Seiko SKX781 'Orange Monster' Invicta 8926 'Pro Diver' Nixon Scout Wenger Commando Traveler Swiss Army Summit XLT Chronograph Invicta 2093 'Dragon Lupah' Invicta 4342 'Quinotaur Russian Diver'

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4. 12-13-2007 06:00 PM #4

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Invicta spies stole the Sekret Recipe for Co-Axial Cheeze

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5. 12-13-2007 09:51 PM #5

Agent Orange

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How much you wanna bet Swatch has got deeper pockets and is willing to take this thing to trial? Could be bad for Invicta, even if it didn't "infringe" on a Swatch

patent or copyright.

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6. 12-13-2007 11:21 PM #6

matsonjb

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IDK Amazon is a defendent and therefore that could add to the excitement. IDK how amazon factors in but they will shell to protect assets.

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7. 12-14-2007 03:38 AM #7

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Uh-Oh Fireworks.

Watch this space I'd say.

Thanks for spotting this Alain. Hope you'll keep us informed of the proceedings since all too often, these things can disappear from public view.

Be well now

ZIN

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8. 12-14-2007 04:17 AM #8

rm663

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You can log into the district court files and get the entire case if you're willing to spend the bucks. I'm not THAT interested!!

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9. 12-14-2007 10:04 AM #9

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Sounds like a squeeze to me. First, Swatch restricts access to their movements but Selita comes through with a modified ETA movement. Then Swatch files suit

on copyright infringements. The history of the Swiss watch industry has been to restrict competition, regulate production, and make sure everyone toes the line; I can't see anything to suggest that things have changed. So I too think Invicta will eventually cowtow to the Swatch cartel.

Gotta say though that Invicta has brought some of this on themselves. Their Pro Diver Rolex homage may have put them on the map, but now that they are selling 2 million watches a year, they are a much bigger target. If Eyal wants to claim that Invicta compares favorably with the big boys, they need to start acting

like it and produce their own designs exclusively.

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10. 12-14-2007 11:08 AM #10

amwilliams9

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Invicta doesn't have any original designs? Correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought the Lupah, Sapphire Ghost, and a few more that I can't think of were original Invicta designs. Now I could be wrong since I am not as knowledgeable as some of you more seasoned WIS's out there.

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1. 12-14-2007 11:18 AM #11

Revolution

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koi,

I always love reading your posts. You hang 'em out there, which is refreshing to read.

I agree with your sentiments generally, but I do think they have done some original stuff. My S1 auto is pretty original, so is the Sea Spider, Sea Vulture, Sapphire Ghost, and certainly the Subaqua Noma.

That said, when Invicta recently rolled out their Pro Diver offshore, a blatant copy of an Omega Planet Ocean, I just shook my head. Invicta is a maturing watch company and it is high time that they grow up and establish their own identity. Growth is not always a good thing. It might be time to take hold of the reigns and

manage their image better, improve their quality, and serve their existing customers.

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2. 12-14-2007 11:57 AM #12

amwilliams9

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How many designs can one do with the shape, materials, and style of a watch? Pretty limited if you ask me. That being said Invicta does have it's own designs. But IMO since they don't have the pedigree of long established companies they won't get the recognition for their designs. Case in point the Subaqua Noma,

although some will say that it's a true classic worthy of being added to the ranks of the elite others won't sighting that Invicta has not paid it's dues ie. longevity, heritage, and snob appeal. Yet another company can "sample" a very similar design and nothing is said ex. the Sharp Shooter from Croton (blatant rip). The Lupah is another one, I beg to differ it looks nothing like Corum not even close. But instead of giving Invicta it's props it's they stole the look. Now look at how

many rips of this very same design Adee Kaye, Lucian Picard just to name a couple.

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3. 12-14-2007 01:44 PM #13

falcon4311

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Well I can say that when looking at my 3824 and the Rolex Submariner, they are identical in every way other than the name, diameter and diamonds on the dial.

Normally when someone makes a few changes in a similar design or product and can prove that it has it a better product in any way that may get them around the patent infringements but adding diamonds to the dial does not change the appearance of the watch to nor does it improve functionality of the watch to any

degree so companies like Rolex would have every right to file a lawsuit.

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4. 12-14-2007 01:46 PM #14

falcon4311

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Man I just looked at my picture, I must be the whitest person on the planet!! I have never seen such pink skin.

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5. 12-14-2007 03:41 PM #15

13ECHO

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Rolex has this version with diamonds on the dial too.

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6. 12-14-2007 04:38 PM #16

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Really, I didn't know that, well I guess Invicta better start towing the line or the big boys just may end up clipping their wings, no pun intended. Well maybe it

was.

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7. 12-14-2007 05:16 PM #17

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The other thing that came to mind is with the look of the Lupah would that not be a copy of a Corum? They may end up with several lawsuits from different

companies especially if one of the suits goes in the plaintiffs favour.

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8. 12-15-2007 04:13 AM #18

rm663

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Originally Posted by Agent Orange

How much you wanna bet Swatch has got deeper pockets and is willing to take this thing to trial? Could be bad for Invicta, even if it didn't "infringe" on a Swatch

patent or copyright.

It will be an interesting case to watch! Oh my, the pun on words.

I'm sure EL and his corporate attorney's have some sort of defense just in case this happened.

If you take a look over on the GD forum at "Insane Klone Posse" thread it appears to me that a whole bunch of companys could be sued for infringement.

http://watchtalkforums.info/forums/showthread.php?t=188

Last edited by rm663; 12-15-2007 at 04:58 AM.

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9. 12-15-2007 09:42 AM #19

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Originally Posted by koimaster

NON-SPONSOR LINK REMOVED BY RUSTY you may want to rethink the Subaqua not being a homage.

Sorry, I missed your link before the sargent at arms swooped in, but as I understand it, Invicta has taken out numerous patents on the design of the Subaqua

Noma. I think we are splitting hairs here though. All modern watch designs are inspired by others. There are only so many ways to design a watch. I've got no problem with Invicta or any other company taking inspirations from others and incorporating them into the watch. There's just no way to create new designs

without looking at benchmarks. That said, I completely agree that Invicta should focus on developing more of their own designs and do less homages.

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10. 12-15-2007 12:53 PM #20

amwilliams9

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I'm learinig alot here. Question is there a original design by Invicta? Has Invicta ever produced a watch that canot be compared to a earlier watch done by any watch manufacturer?

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1. 12-15-2007 01:46 PM #21

arielr22

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KOI, the Subaqua I and II are ORIGINALS and the SA III has a resemblance on the bezel and crown to the Zenith thats ALL. Just cuz the bracelet looks similar

doesnt make it. ALL two tone bracelets look similar or we can ALL just say that EVERYBODY to this day has copied ROLEX's original two tone? To say its a complete CLONE is silly. The dial is COMPLETELY different. By the way, I bet mucho dinero if we ALL dug deep enough we can find A BUNCH of other watch company sueing each other. ALL company's to a degree take cues from each others. HELL, the more you think about it EVERY industry copies each other to a

degree whether electronics, cars, even generic medicine making it more affordable. Doesnt make it right but this is Capitalism my friends and if you can make a VERY similar watch at 1/10 of the price of your competitor than power to you and the customers. The customers benifit and it also makes it obvious that the

original product was OVERPRICED in the first place IMHO. Also, just to single out Invicta is plain silly. Since they also command such popularity on the forum, they also draw alot of criticism which is unfair...

Last edited by arielr22; 12-15-2007 at 01:53 PM.

"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm" - Ralph Waldo Emerson EDOX Classe Royale Open Heart Rose Gold/Black * SWI LE/Silver Dial w/ Roman Numerals * Invicta OG Tungsten/Ceramic Blk Dial 3410 * Renato Vulcan SS Blue

Dial * Invicta Reserve Speedway Triple Black * Renato Wildebeast Gunmetal w/ Red Carbon Dial * Movado Eliro * Casio G Shock * JL Geneve Blue Dial Auto Eta 2824 * Omega Vintage Constellation Deluxe 1954 edition * Stuhrling Auto Chronograph w/ Rubber strap

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2. 12-15-2007 02:08 PM #22

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I agree with Ariel. SAI and SAII are totally original designs. SAIII does resemble the Zenith, but only in case. None of the Defy series dials look anything like the SAIII, so to call it a blatant clone is shortsighted.

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3. 12-15-2007 02:18 PM #23

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Thank you, koimaster. It is much better to break copyright laws than WTF forum rules.

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4. 12-15-2007 02:26 PM #24

amwilliams9

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Ummmm those don't look like any SA I've seen. But then I don't see the comparison of the Lupah to Corum either.JMHO

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5. 12-15-2007 02:36 PM #25

arielr22

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I am sorry, but I do not see the resemblance or the "cloning" and I have 20/20 vision. Hell, we can all say that that some Omega's also look like the rolex daytona

if we match them up right? Hommages, are the speedway and pro divers the others make take cues from other watches but are not clones. Just my two cents...

"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

EDOX Classe Royale Open Heart Rose Gold/Black * SWI LE/Silver Dial w/ Roman Numerals * Invicta OG Tungsten/Ceramic Blk Dial 3410 * Renato Vulcan SS Blue Dial * Invicta Reserve Speedway Triple Black * Renato Wildebeast Gunmetal w/ Red Carbon Dial * Movado Eliro * Casio G Shock * JL Geneve Blue Dial Auto Eta

2824 * Omega Vintage Constellation Deluxe 1954 edition * Stuhrling Auto Chronograph w/ Rubber strap

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6. 12-15-2007 03:27 PM #26

13ECHO

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@Rusty, The Invicta Streaker Strikes AGAIN!

Last edited by 13ECHO; 12-15-2007 at 03:47 PM.

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7. 12-15-2007 05:29 PM #27

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sapphire ghost is original now there are similar models by cartier and krieder watches ...

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8. 12-15-2007 08:53 PM #28

falcon4311

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Ummmm those don't look like any SA I've seen. But then I don't see the comparison of the Lupah to Corum either.JMHO

I was in a store in Vancouver B.C. and they had Corum watches in the showcase. I asked to see the one that resembled the Lupah. The only real difference was

the Corum was smaller than the Lupah. Even the buddy I was staying with (he also has Invicta watches like the Lupah and the Vortice) said the resemblance was very apparent. It had the same globular crown & pushers with the rubber rings and a very similar dial. The biggest difference between the watches was the price. But again thats just my buddies and my opinion.

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9. 12-15-2007 09:29 PM #29

amwilliams9

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Anyone have a pic of a Corum Chronograph that the Lupah looks like? I have not seen one and would like too. Perhaps I am in error because I have not seen a

similar design from Corum.

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10. 12-15-2007 09:40 PM #30

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OMG it's a Sunday run.....no, it's a rolex......no, it's actually a Seiko. They all do it, I own a lighting showroom and I can buy the same chandelier from at least 5

different "manufacturers"(importers) for 5 different prices and the only difference is the color. If you really want to blame someone,blame us, the consumer, we continue to demand more for less and we continue to get it but we never ask where it comes from or how we get it at those amazingly low prices.

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Once you find them

I've looked around enough to know That you're the one I want to go

Through time with" - Jim Croce

1. 12-15-2007 10:12 PM #31

13ECHO

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I know, just imagine what the creators of these two must be thinking. So similar, and yet so different. DID WE DO THAT??

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2. 12-15-2007 11:17 PM #32

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Anyone have a pic of a Corum Chronograph that the Lupah looks like? I have not seen one and would like too. Perhaps I am in error because I have not seen a similar design from Corum.

This was the only pictures I could find which is very similar to the Lupah Diver. I couldn't find the one that resembles the Lupah.

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3. 12-16-2007 12:36 AM #33

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I agree that the Lupah diver looks sorta like the Corum but I meant the original Lupah:

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4. 12-16-2007 07:57 AM #34

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I agree that the Lupah diver looks sorta like the Corum but I meant the original Lupah:

I did try to find the model that I tried on in the store that resembles the Lupah but I couldn't track one down. Trust me when I saw it in the showcase I initially

thought it was an Original Lupah until I saw the size and the Corum name on the dial. It is a fair amount smaller than the Lupah.

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5. 12-16-2007 08:00 AM #35

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I will tell you this people lil Saro-Gem was attacked by RADO and the Swatch group in the courts of three different countries. Take a guess who won. Hint it was

not the SWATCH group. I would not count Invicta out yet. I think you will find its a tougher foe than many may think.

Best Regards, Thomas Carey

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6. 12-16-2007 09:52 AM #36

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I will tell you this people lil Saro-Gem was attacked by RADO and the Swatch group in the courts of three different countries. Take a guess who won. Hint it was not the SWATCH group. I would not count Invicta out yet. I think you will find its a tougher foe than many may think. Best Regards, Thomas Carey

I am not counting Invicta out by any stretch of the imagination. In this case Corum would have to prove that Invicta copied their design which is very difficult to do if there are apparent changes made to the watch. This is a very difficult task in a court of law, patent or no patent. I used the example of a Corum watch and

Invictas Lupah diver to show that Invicta did take a model of Corum’s and made a very similar design of their own. However, they made obvious changes in the size of the watch, adding an internal rotating bezel and the hands are different. So, essentially Invictas defence would be that they did make improvements to the

design of the watch. When a competitor makes design changes on a product that can be perceived as an improvement the burden of proof lays with the original manufacturer to prove otherwise. If it was an exact copy of the Corum watch that would be a different story. I really have no doubt that if it came down to a lawsuit Invicta would prevail in that case. It would be the same situation with any other design infringements.

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7. 12-17-2007 12:09 AM #37

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i was told that if you take a product and change 10% of it you can patten it as your own. But this was about a knife that was a cheap copy of another. so i don't know about watches. but if they just stopped the bullstuff with the merc hands on the divers they would have been fine. does any one even like those? i don't own one watch with and

hope i never do

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8. 12-17-2007 05:43 AM #38

Tom Carey

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Speaking of cutlery clones run rampant in the cutlery world. No doubt about that. In my former life I was a dealer of cutlery. Actually I still do dabble in that at shows.

Best Regards,

Thomas Carey

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